Will The Narcissist Deploy A Follow-up Hoover?
The follow-up hoover. A staple method of gaining fuel from you either post discard or post escape, whether of a positive and/or negative nature. How though does the follow-up hoover come about, how do I decide whether to do it or not and what are the circumstances that can cause it? Here is an instance which will assist your understanding of our methodology and mind set so you can identify the factors which put you at risk.
I discarded you. You failed me and you had to go. You had no idea of course that this was the case. You tried to see me, speak to me, plead with me and you were rebuffed and told to stay away. The teeth were bared at you and you saw that look in the eye, the one that still unnerves you and you backed away. You slid into misery and confusion, unable to comprehend why I flung you to one side, why I wouldn’t at least do you the decency of explaining. You do not realise that our kind are never beholden to the obligation to explain. We are above that. You however operate by differing standards and regard it as a common courtesy to explain why something has been done and it certainly applies when the situation is one of romantic entanglement. You believed that you are owed an explanation. We operate from the position that we owe you nothing because once upon a time we gave you everything.
I have the new primary source of fuel of course. She was from a shortlist of individuals who were being cultivated as I embarked on my cruel devaluation of you. When I slipped away to my bolthole, when I made repeated excuses to go to the bar when we went away on holiday, when your back was turned I was extending my electronic tendrils as I engaged with these prospects. The fuel flowed from them as they readily connected with someone as charming as I. How could they not? A couple of these prospects have been kept in reserve, contingencies as they became outer circle friends who will wait in the wings, suitable brainwashed and conditioned so that they will jump at the chance of being promoted to the primary source at some future point. I know as well that they will not hesitate to hand me the dagger which I will plunge in that primary source’s back at some future point. There is no sisterhood here in the battle to win my affections and favour. Thus two find themselves admitted to the chain of fuel providing appliances and like two growing plants, I occasionally tend to them, cultivating and maintaining their interest, keeping alive the hope of promotion. It is reassuring to know that if the one who eventually saw off the others on the shortlist has to be discarded then there are ready and waiting appliances who can be plugged in without much more effort. It is not always possible to find those appliances which will wait around but it is far from impossible. You may be surprised at the number which will readily accept a role as an outer or even inner circle friend, possibly an acquaintance too in the right circumstances. Content to have intermittent contact with me in person. Happy to have more frequent contact through electronic medium. These reservists will smile at the primary source, appear to even be friendly but they are only doing it to maintain my favour. If I give the signal they would rip the throat from the primary source in order to replace her. That is what we bring out in people.
Still, those are the reservists but for now an excellent primary source was chosen and thus you were surplus to requirements. You heard no more from me as a wall of silence greeted your attempts to contact me. Your position as primary source came to an end. You were made redundant and you were cast aside. I drew fuel from imagining your distress at this state of affairs and your repeated attempts to contact me provided similar fuel until I decided that I wanted to concentrate on the new primary source and therefore you needed to stay away. Thus, as I mentioned, the teeth were bared, you were warned and for once you listened and backed off.
Life has been sweet with the wonderful, new and shiny primary source who has lived up to expectations in her admiration, adoration and love. All is well and I cannot say that I have really given you any further thought since I made it clear that you were to “stay the hell away from me, understand?” I have been drinking deep from the new, potent fountain and enjoying all of this fresh, succulent fuel. So much so, I soon moved her in and why not? I may as well ensure that such a precious source of fuel is on tap.
Then one day I was moving some things around in the study and I found a book which belonged to you. I picked it up and you flared in my mind. I know that if it was the other way around, you would have been consumed by emotion as you triggered this ever presence. That does not happen with me. There is no charge of emotion but instead there is the spark of opportunity. The appearance of this book has caused you to enter into my sphere of influence. You did nothing did you? No telephone call, no text message, no driving past my house, all of the usual things which victims do in the aftermath and which will invariably result in a hoover. The appearance of this book has thrust you into my mind again. I have plenty of fuel from the wonderful primary source but a dash of hoover fuel would be welcome also. I feel no need to re-engage you as my primary source, your replacement is functioning well, but I am fuelled, powerful and I want to taste your hoover fuel. You have entered the sixth sphere of influence and caused a Hoover Trigger.
Moments such as these are delicious indeed. I have taken a bite of the succulent cherry that is the new primary source but here I am with a delightful opportunity to take a bite of another cherry and apply a hoover to you. What I especially like about it is the fact that because I do not want to or need to rekindle our intimate relationship again, the effort required will be minimal in order to get a taste of your hoover fuel. I pull out my ‘phone and look up your number. I kept it of course. I felt no need to block it. You rang and you rang but I never answered and eventually you gave up. I wonder for a moment whether you have blocked me and feel a twinge of irritation if that proves to be the case. Nevertheless, I have the energy and inclination to want to hoover you,, I perceive that there is a good prospect of gaining fuel from you, I have no reason to think that your fuel will be diminished, I have considered whether there may be obstacles but do not regard there as being any which would mean the attempt is likely to fail and I have not perception that you will reject me and thus criticise me and cause wounding. The Hoover Execution Criteria has been met and I have surpassed the bar, it is thus time to hoover you.
I jab your name and smile as I hear the ringing noise and within just two rings (two rings! Someone remains keen!) you answer. Your voice is tentative.
“Hello? HG?”
“Hi Tabitha, how are you?”
There is a pause. You are trying to work out what is going on but I know you will want to talk to me. You answered didn’t you? You spoke. You want some answers. You need to know. I have seen it so many times before and therefore I know that no matter how much you may think that you need to end the call before it gets going you will not do so. I know that the emotion is surging through you, hope, expectation and no doubt the glowing embers of the love that has not yet been extinguished for me.
“What do you want?” you ask but it is not said in a hostile tone.
“I was just thinking about you and I thought I would give you a call and see how you were doing.”
“I don’t understand. Why call me now when you made it clear you didn’t want anything to do with me?” Ah, a bit of a fightback from logic here. Fair enough.
“I know, I know, that was some time ago, I was in a bad place, a lot going on and something had to give. I know I didn’t handle it well, I am sorry.”
Like hell I am but I know those three words will have a magical effect. I stop speaking. I can picture you trying to hold back the tears, fighting with the competing emotions that are washing over you. I can feel the power rising inside of me at this image as I gather the fuel.
“You hurt me, you really hurt me,” you say voice cracking slightly.
“I know, I know and I am truly sorry, I know you must hate me, listen if it is any consolation to you, I hate myself for what I did to you, you didn’t deserve to be treated like that.” That should hit the spot. A bit of self-flagellation always goes down well.
“Well you won’t hate yourself as much as I hate you,” you answer with a little steel in your voice. It’s good. It is all fuel.
“Trust me Tabs,” oh yes the shortened name for added familiarity needs to be used here, “I know just what I did and I am not proud of myself. I just felt it was only right that I call you in order to explain…”
I hit the end call button after saying this.
Five seconds. She will call back in five seconds.
Sure enough her name appears on the ‘phone as she returns the call.
“Hi,” I say enthusiastically.
“You went off.”
“Yes poor signal I guess.”
There is another pause. I say nothing allowing the silence to be used to compel you to speak. I know that you want to talk. It was always likely and your behaviour so far is laden with indicators that you want to continue to talk.
“You said you wanted to explain,” you say and I hear the hope in your voice and the fuel drips from you once again.
I know that I can dangle the prospect of answers in front of you for weeks now. I don’t want you back. I do not need you back but I have tasted your delicious hoover fuel and I like it. I have managed to cause you to speak to me and then call me back after everything that I did to you, including my callous discard. That highlights the power I have and that is why when remembering you through seeing the book it was too good an opportunity to miss and I applied a benign hoover. Not to win you back, but to get you to respond and to provide me with fuel. And it has worked.
I lick my lips before I speak.
This cherry is mighty sweet as is the fuel from this successful follow-up hoover.
95 thoughts on “Will The Narcissist Deploy A Follow-up Hoover?”
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I’m so glad I found this.
I’m so glad I never called him.
I’m so glad he hasn’t hoovered.
I’m so glad I have NC.
I’m so glad for this reminder, because, ugh. Poor Tabs.
Thank you.
Hello Mr Tudor, your blog is very illuminating, if a little triggering. The N I’m divorcing who was emotionally and financially abusive behind closed doors and a generous, kind-hearted businessman for the public, is starting to – unravel, is the expression that comes to mind. His lawyer has come close to walking away from his case and my accountant told me he demanded to know my tax return and my new address. She gave him a different one and someone living near there confirmed that he is there every evening, sitting or walking around. A friend of mine who was originally on his side (as it appeared that I suddenly packed and abandoned him for no reason after years together) saw him muttering to himself and “he looked at me with scary eyes” I’ve never seen him lose his public persona mask before when there were witnesses. Is this person dangerous? Is this going to escalate? Is there anything else I can do, apart from totally ignore all calls, emails, attempts to hoover from minions? Thank you in advance
Cindy
Hello Cindy, in order to provide you with a detailed, accurate response you are best served organising a consultation, please see the menu bar for more details.
Thank you for confirming! Much obliged.
Dear HG: am a former IPPS to an UMRN (which you confirmed in a consult). ExN sent me an email with a photo of a letter for me that came to his place, at which I used to live, asking me what he should do with it. I’ve been NC for a couple of months and have chosen to ignore this hoover, as he can easily just post that letter to my work address without asking me for a response. The letter isn’t all that important either. Is 1. this another hoover, and 2. Is not responding the right course of action?
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
Dear HG: if someone searches for me anonymously on Linkedin but I get a notification of the company this person works for, which just happens to be the company exN works for and I have no other connections at this company, would you consider this to be a type of hoover? I assume exN knew I would see the notification and recognise his company name.
Yes it is a hoover.
I left my narc, like a STUIPD IDIOT i fell for him again but then again just to test my theory of him.
My question is: do narcs recycle their exes? For example try to be on good graces so she remains “open”.
But most importantly:
does the narc come back to try to demote you (kind of, i broke up with you so be happy with what you get? when the victim needed it,) like: i was primary once but now i open my doors to you but at my will, secondary fuel?
Exes always remain an option because you belong to us.
My hoover was almost verbatim as to what you said in your article!!! ‘I hate myself for this…’ ‘I was broken at the time’ ‘All I want to do is say Im sorry’ You know what I see now when I read it… Charlie Browns school teacher blah blah blah blah and lies lies lies… WOW! The hoover made me feel slightly upset for him… Of course my first thought was ‘new chickie and him broke up or he is bored with her’ Man I love this site because it keeps me on point and one step ahead of him! THANK YOU SO MUCH HG!
You are welcome.
If a person successfully implements NO Contact for several years, does a narcosis truly believe that person belongs to them, especially because all communication from the narcissist have gone unanswered? Or HG, does it depend upon the type of narcissist???
It is an inherent part of the narcissistic mind that all people belong to us. Always.
Wow! Thank you, HG!
Dear Mr Tudor,
Mr Bubbles and I attended an “Old Scholars” reunion and this chap made a beeline for me ..he asked if I was married (even though he could clearly see my wedding ring) plus I was sitting very close to Mr Bubbles, who then immediately replied on my behalf …. “yes, this is my lovely wife, back off, she’s taken” …laughter ensued … and Mr Bubbles continued talking (I took an instant dislike to him)
This chap confirmed his cockiness and grandiosity by non stop talking about himself… me me me, I, I, I (absolute pain in the derrière) …. the others found him quite obnoxious as well
The only questions he asked was to gain information…. I observed, studied and took note. From your teachings Mr Tudor, you can actually see the “performance in play”
After all the reading out loud, Mr Bubbles can now spot them, it’s the domino effect….. all thanks to you Mr Tudor, you would’ve been so proud
Luv Bubbles xx
Dear Mr Tudor,
Talk about opportune and speaking about hoovers
Here I am reading your articles to Mr Bubbles over breakie and “bing” … lo and behold, I received a text message 8.48am
It’s an unknown number with no name
It read…..
Hi bubbles.Long time no see.
How are you
Note (Interesting to see no cap for my b no space after the first stop two full stops but not after you)
Decent people sign off with their name and there was not a lot of energy spent in the content, apart from the two full stops
Mr Bubbles and I looked at each other from across our breakfast table …. we almost gagged on our delicious strongly brewed Italian coffee and were entertained somewhat guessing who it was
Dare to say it’s the weasel or a female we haven’t seen in a very long time … either way …. she’s a narc too …. obviously both going thru their supply list to see who will take the bait, no doubt
I didnt open the message… (I wrote down the number and the message) …… then pressed delete
If it werent for you Mr Tudor.. the old me would’ve opened it and had a fuel filled chit chat
Thank you for giving me the tools to handle the situation …. it didn’t require much effort at all, actually…although my phone screen received a dollop from my homemade plum jam toast plopping on it when I hit “delete” and then had to wiped clean …. haha
Mr Bubbles and I then had a second cuppa coffee ☕️
over the continued tantalising Tudor tutorials and comments …. hehe
This article is a very brilliant red flag reminder … thank you
Luv Bubbles xx
Bubbles
I love that you and Mr Bubbles discuss the articles and blog comments and exercise what you learn together over tea or a meal. That sounds like a healthy relationship we could all take some pointers from.
Dear NarcAngel,
Awe … thanks lovely one, what a sweet thing to say
As long as he does what he’s told … we get on just fine … lol
Nah … just kidding
We talk a lot … nah .. I talk a lot … and he just listens … haha
Ta precious … warm hugs to you
Luv Bubbles xx
Dear NarcAngel,
Forgot to add …. we do have a lot of fun with Mr Tudor’s acronyms (there’s soooo many… I have to keep a list)
Mr Bubbles (some times hard of or has selective hearing).. haha thinks I’m a bit of a dills (DLS) when I go for i pee pees (IPPS) and sometimes miss (NISS). He goes over (GOSO) to put the music CD (Corrective Devaluation) on and says to me, pssst (PST) wanna cuppa and we both go an sit in the sun (SN) whilst we have have our sips (SIPPS) of hot coffee and then proceeds to moan (MRN)
Imagine (MGN) that
😂😂😂😂
Luv Bubbles xx
I love your insightful reply. It totally makes sense. I especially appreciated the analogy of Beauty and the Beast and your Messiah complex explanation. When I was younger, I use to think that. Tagging off your Beauty and the Beast, when I was 18 I told my then future husband that the man I marry will love me like “Endless Love” Argg ..
He wasn’t into gift giving. He had promised me a car and instead he gave me a framed poster of him posing in his scantily-clad briefs. He hung it above our fireplace for all to see.
I definitely had a distorted view of love.
SuperXena… I left you a reply but accidentally did it on a comment above your last one…..
Here’s a good one…. his building is across from mine and he used to park in the same spot everyday so i could meet him on breaks. HE MOVED THE LOCATION OF WHERE HE PARKS to around the side of the building. Those who don’t “get it” think he’s just trying to avoid me and “heal.” But I think its provocation.
Wondering, yours plays games with cars the way mine plays games with his internet presence. It is provocation.
Wondering,
It seems to me that is provocation. He is trying to find out if you are responding to him in any way.He is testing you to see how emotionalyy attached are you still to him. Just ignore him!
Wondering,
I believe he is trying to provoke you by changing his parking place to see if you still are emotionally attached to him. Testing you again. Just ignore whatever he is doing: do not react. If you have to speak to him do it without any emotion. Neutral. Even the tone of your voice is important to be neutral . Give short ,succinct answers with no emotion whatsoever.
Dear HG: I want to sever ties with mutal friends of me and exN to prevent them from obraining info on me and thus lessen the chance of a hoover – should I tell them I am distancing myself and give a vague reason or will this get back to the exN and act as a hoover trigger?
Go no contact but offer no explanation
So I should inform them about severing contact but not provide a reason for doing so, correct?
No. Go no contact and tell them nothing
Amen!!!!
Dear Jess,
I went no contact no explanation … seems hard at first, but in actual fact, it’s easy…. it’s the “overthinking it” that we get caught up in
People these days are only interested in themselves anyway, they probably won’t even notice you’ve gone (it’s actually a great weight lifted from ones shoulders)
As always … Mr Tudor knows best ….haha
Best wishes sweet one
Luv Bubbles xx
Thank you Bubbles. That’s what I was leaning towards, just wanted insightful confirmation. I don’t want to trigger any proxy hoovers either.
Hi HG, my narcissist (he broke up with me) who blocked me after I went no contact suddenly unblocked me. Does it mean he wants me to contact him or is testing waters to deploy some follow-up hoovers? If I don’t react to it (unblocking him, not contacting him, pretending I didn’t notice) will it wound him?
He unblocked you in order to provoke you to contact him so he can gauge fuel and how under control you are. Do not contact him. If you do not react it will wound him, but only in a minor fashion.
Thank you, I will not react. And the truth is, it doesn’t trigger me emotionally, he doesn’t control my emotions anymore. It was a long way but thanks to you and your writing I am a different, stronger person now.
Korova he wants to make you wonder and reach out which will restore his sense of power (with fuel), control and superiority. Those three things are always the answer to “why did he do that?”
We can block them on FB even when we are blocked by searching his name under security settings. If you don’t know that you are unblocked then you avoid the possible trigger. Good 🍀.
Korova, how would you know that he unblocked you? Do you mean phone or social media?
Social media, but not facebook. I simply clicked at his profile and discovered I am no longer blocked. But I didn’t unblocked him in return, I have no intention in contacting him and giving him any fuel. For me it’s just funny that he still (after months I went no contact) tries to play some mind games and force me to contact him. It means that by going no contact I wounded him and his ego is still suffering and that’s why he wants to manipulate me – to feel superior again. I won’t give it to him. Now it’s me who have a power and it feels so good!
You know what HG, I played this scenario out in my head even before he tried to hoover me. I knew it would come. I got on with life. But I planned for when this would happen – it still threw me off guard as you well know BUT I didn’t answer, nothing. I ignored everything. I had 7 months of you before he came back, I was waiting with my body armour and AK47 well camouflaged in the sniper position.
This IS how it would have panned out, don’t answer the phone ladies. Ever!
HG… what if your supply told your wife. Are you THEN done with her?
We are never done with people, but such exposure might cause disengagement. See the article about disengagement triggers.
I dont know HG… I did it because I wanted him away for good. I could never resist his hoovers… he had taken my “no.”
He always said if I told his wife he would be so “hurt” that we would be done. Now im unfriended and blocked and when I see him at meetings he looks at me, crosses his arms and shakes his head. What adult man does this? HG I’m pretty sure he hates me and wont ever come back because I “hurt him so deeply.” And I’m glad.
But then… i might be a narcissist to think I’m smarter than you….
PS… “Black” looks good on me 😉
SuperXena, HG should put you on the payroll.
So…. since he attacked me after one meeting made about how my company had treated one of his children (the company made it good) he has apologized and we agreed to keep contact professional. That’s an illusion right?
Also, not able to change my job. Do you believe in the concept of “graystoning?”
Also, he knows his wife and I are in contact “as necessary.” Doesn’t that keep him in check?
Part of my problem is that with ET I start wondering… is he really as bad as I think he is? So I lecture myself…. I did what I did (tell the wife) to put an end to everything. I live with diametrically opposed thoughts — I regret what I did, but I know it was the right thing to do.
I know HG has explained this — even recently reiterating — but since he’s not been dumped by his IPPS after he engaged in a two year affair, he appears to “have gotten away with it.” And I can’t tell the IPPS that, because she doesn’t want to hear it from me. But he will do it again.
I know, I know… my job is to walk away.
Thank you for your continued explanations. They are really helping me see more clearly.
Ha, ha Wondering. Perhaps he should !
You are most welcome . I will try to answer to your questions and link you to the posts that have the answers to your questions .(You are really making me study extra!) It is good . So I will catch up with you with this later. I need time!
Actually if you want to have the exact and accurate answers to your questions , I think you will benefit more by booking a consultation with HG.Highly recommended.
SuperXena, I cannot find the exact comment to reply to but I am glad you don’t mind that I think of you as una buena bruja (no soy latina pero sí hablo español, y tal vez sea por eso que me caes bien). I think leaving social media would be too dramatic, though I know you are right about it, so maybe I will. If I were decisive, I wouldn’t be in this situation!
Hello SMH( perhaps you will receive this message in duplicate)
Ay SMH qué gusto que hablas español y muy bien!
Dónde lo has aprendido?
Gracias! Ja,ja tú también me caes muy bien.Sí, soy una buena bruja latina y escandinava pero más latina que otra cosa! Ningún problema , me gusta el apodo que me has dado. Puedo identificarme muy bien con él. Pero me pregunto cómo lo has detectado( mi naturaleza “brujesca “?)
Seems to me that you are decisive, it just takes time for the reality to sink in.I am sure it will.
Nos vemos por aquí!
Hola SuperXena, Jejeje. Soy mexicana ‘falsa’ – bueno, aprendí español en México. La verdad es que tengo mucha experiencia con brujos/hechiceros y curanderos – o digo con esta manera de pensar y comunicar, lo malo y lo bueno – enhechizar y curar. Debo reconocer ‘la voz’ – te agradezco mucho.
Sí, puedo ser decisiva. Pues, me escapé del pinche narc pero le dejé tratarme en una manera que nunca hubiera tolerada de otra persona. Se lo dijé y le entretenía, por supuesto. Más que nada lo que me frustró fue no poder explicárle lo que hacía a hacerme tan anxiosa…
La verdad es que como niño no sabía que hacía. Es un ‘unaware’ narc que funcciona por instinto – por eso esta ‘hovering’ en un red social – no va a hacer ningun movimiento.
Qué tengas buen día!
Hola SMH,
Sí, se nota que aprendiste tu español en México! Soy una mezcla de varios países pero mi país natal es México y siempre será el primero. Ahora no resido allí pero lo extraño. Qué interesante que has vivido en México. Dónde has estado? Como tienes experiencia de hechiceros y curanderos tal vez has estado en Oaxaca?
Qué bueno que has dejado al “pinche “ narco…ja.ja. Reconozco todo lo que dices: operan sobre libreto. Siento que vas por muy buen camino. Por qué no le echas el ojo malo?? Je,je. Yo he intentado hacerlo con mi ex…
Qué padre poder comunicarme contigo que has vivido en mi país natal!
Nos estamos “viendo” por acá y que tengas una bonita tarde !
I feel like Im at the nail salon lol.
Really, NarcAngel? They were all Vietnamese in the only nail salon I was ever in!
I’m really enjoying it! If they were talking out loud, I could never keep up, but I can still understand it written after over 40 years! Makes me feel good!
Glad you are enjoying it, Windstorm. I’ve never had the pleasure of speaking about narcissism in Spanish to anyone. It’s fun to curse!
Windstorm
I just meant not understanding a word and was only teasing. Where I go they don’t speak another language and usually pour out their hearts to me (as Im sure happens to everyone here). When I’m not in the mood I open my reader which is the signal for silence and they respect that. They dont mind-I’m a big tipper either way.
NarcAngel
Ha, ha! Your comment made me laugh! Certainly no one has ever poured their heart out to me in a nail salon. I’ve only been in one on one occasion and while they all talked nearly the whole time, it really was all in Vietnamese! Maybe they were pouring their hearts out to one another. Lol!
Hola SuperXena, Naciste en México? Y en dónde vives ahora? Qué casualidad.
Estuve años en el DF y en Guerrero – por la sierra cerca de Oaxaca. Allá aprendí la brujería/curandería. Por casualidad, mi narc también ha viajado y vivido en América Latina, aunque no nos conocimos allá. Tenemos eso en común.
Pues, ya no voy a Guerrero por la violencia de otro tipo de ‘narco.’ Pero sí, tengo ‘ojo malo’ – una vela – La Santísima Muerte :-). Si quieres, te la presto!
Abrazos fuertes!
Hola SMH,
Sí nací en el D.F. Dejé México hace muchos, muchos años. He vivido y estudiado en diferentes países : Francia, España , USA y ahora vivo en Suecia (Estocolmo).
Abrazo fuerte!
Me imagino que habrá pocos mexicanos en Suecia, SuperXena! Abrazos!
SMH,
Sí efectivamente. Hay pocos pero como se dice en México:” De lo bueno poco”.
Tengo doble nacionalidad SMH : Sueca y Mexicana. Y además una mezcla bárbara de otras culturas. No sé exactamente con cuál de ellas me identifico! Supongo que tengo un código cultural propio.
Abrazos.
SuperXena, Además de ser una mexicana falsa, tengo dos nacionalidades adicionales. Ni hablo el idioma de una de ellas, y vivo en un tercer pais. Me da risa pero así es la vida pos-moderna, no? Todos estasmos hechos de pedacitos de varias cosas. Nos hace más abiertos! Besos
Sí, qué risa! Tal vez por eso nos caemos bien: pedacitos por aquí pedacitos por allá…sí definitivamente, eso nos abre más!
Good luck with the trip to Montreal you are planning here…Sounds great…You should do it….really.
Bisous
LOL! But isn’t that trip to Montreal on another thread? I always feel like I am having private conversations on here – sometimes with myself :-). Don’t you have a Canadian narc in your life? The rest of us seem to! xx
SuperXena,
I blocked his profiles because he entered my head this morning. Last night I couldn’t even conjure him up even after all that Canada talk but today he was in my head so I blocked him.
I thought it through. Please indulge me. He knows he can make me break NC with silence/indirect hoovers because it happened many times before I knew what a hoover was. He knows I will soon be in his part of the world and he thinks I will break NC (I am afraid I will).
The first time he stalked me was on platform X (same city). He directly hoovered and I rejected him (and took a screen shot), but I broke NC a few months later. Later, on platform Y (different countries but he knew I was returning), he left traces over and over so I’d notice. I broke NC. Now on platform Z (again different countries but he knows I will soon be close by) he is ‘sitting’ there doing nothing thinking that I will break NC again.
Except he isn’t really doing nothing: A few months ago I accused him of creeping me on platform Z with a different profile, so he doesn’t have to ‘do’ anything because he knows I am onto it. For this profile he used the place where he is and the most obvious of aliases – the same name on the fake email he used with me. Why did he use THAT name? Because he is targetting ME.
It occurred to me that he might be targetting a new CIPSS and wants a ‘presence’ under this name in case she does she checks. However, while the name sounds plausible, anyone Googling it would come up empty handed except on this platform, because in the real world no one has it. But there are no pictures with this profile so using it to establish a presence for a new conquest is implausible. It must be for me.
Logic tells me that he is trying to make me break NC. Does that make sense? Or am I missing something?
I feel like by blocking him I broke NC, so I see how leaving social media would have been better. I know I cannot completely escape. But I don’t have to make it easy either. What a mind fuck.
I am going to the gym now! Gracias por tus consejos.
Besos
Querida SMH,
I hope you hit the gym as you said you would and that you have drained there some ( narc) negative energy. Exercise is ALWAYS a good therapy (particularly if you ask me..ha,ha).
Although I was intending not to participate so actively now, I am writing to you firstly because in some way I identify myself a lot with you , secondly because I can relate to many things you write and finally because I hope it helps you and I would really like you to see you going to the other side of the fence.
My process of escaping and finally moving on ( two different things as I understood later) was very similar to yours:
1. I was ( as you are now) immerse /stuck in this battle of trying to figure out if he did this or that because he wanted this or that always assuming it was related to me. Some things were, some others perhaps not. I was overanalysing.
2.The only way I could get out of this state was:
a) acquiring knowledge here about how they operate( as you are doing it now)
b) through many e-mail consultations and conversations (with HG of course) I was dragged slowly but steadily out of this state.
I gained proportion of what was happening .
Applying it to your case:
What he is doing or not on all your platforms may or may not be related to you.Some of them are probably hoovers some are not and perhaps some are not aimed at you.They could be aimed at others as well.
At the end it does not matter what he is doing or not doing.We will never find some logic ( under our perspective) of what they do or don’t.
What matters is HOW it affects you .
There are two ways of ending this vicious circle ⭕️ :
1. Taking down ALL your platforms temporarily until you are not emotional anymore
( you can send a message to close friends, family without explaining if you do not want to, just telling them that you will be off grid for some time).
2. If the first step is difficult to implement( or is it an excuse?) do not lose energy thinking what he is doing( or not). Do not overanalyse.It is just energy consuming and you will get exhausted and drained by this.
Take the temptation away instead!
I was not very indulging with you but I have to live up to the reputation of the nickname you gave me remember?
Seriously, some things are very harsh and very hard to swallow but I really hope that what I write helps you.
Vamos vamos chica !
Abrazos.
P.D. Nope, no Canadian guys on my narc list.
Hello SuperXena,
Yes, you are right and no, not harsh at all. Escaping and moving on are very different, the latter more difficult. One gets sucked into the vortex of narc logic. I am trying to crawl inside his brain to save myself. Hahaha. How silly. All I have to do is read HG to see how complex, twisted and exhausting it is for us. It is a good reminder of how crazy he makes me and why I had to escape.
Anyway, the more he creeps the creepier he is! This is why my song for him is Radiohead’s Creep.
I think I believed that if I left my social networks, he would win. But now I will let him have this battle and leave. My long game is the war, not the battle.
Thanks for coming back to soothe me with your gentle but stern voz de bruja. You’ve been a huge help and I am happy for you that at least there are no Canadian narcs in your life :-). Besos.
You are welcome SMH!
”. But now I will let him have this battle and leave.”
Good decision. By doing this you will eventually win : you will win your own war.
Good luck!
Abrazos
Wondering,
It makes me very happy that you find my answers helpful.
It would be great to know that my help will contribute in some way with leading /dragging you to the other side of the fence.I would even help you cutting the ribbon when you reach your goal.
Besides ,I have realised that helping you and others gives me at the same time momentum for remaining where I am now:on the other side of the fence, the side of freedom!
Ha, ha Wondering. Perhaps he should !
You are most welcome . I will try to answer to your questions and link you to the posts that have the answers to your questions .(You are really making me study extra!) It is good . So I will catch up with you later with this.
Actually if you want to have the exact and accurate answers to your questions , I think you will benefit more by booking a consultation with HG.Highly recommended.
Hello Wondering,
I am answering some of your questions here. I think though that you would receive the exact and accurate answers from HG. If you have not had a consultation with him you could perhaps take it into consideration. They are highly recommended.
1.”So…. since he attacked me after one meeting made about how my company had treated one of his children (the company made it good) he has apologized and we agreed to keep contact professional. That’s an illusion right?”
They do not apologise because they feel they lose their superiority by doing it. If they apologise is not because they feel remorse or guilt( as we do) .There are two instances when they apologise:
– to maintain the facade
-because he considers that he still can extract emotional responses from you/fuel(any kind of response) so he still wants you around him with the excuse of keeping contact “professional “. So that is just a manipulation.
Theres is a very interesting post about this that you may find helpful:
https://narcsite.com/2018/06/11/the-narcissists-7-false-contritions-2/#comments
2. “Also, not able to change my job. Do you believe in the concept of “graystoning?”
I believe you mean grey rocking? Yes, I had learned about that concept before hitting this site. The problem was that I had no idea then what to “get grey rock to “until I found this site. It is the concept that HG explains as controlling the emotional thinking and eventually reaching Zero Impact. It is what he thoroughly explains about not giving any emotional response when provoked by them.
3. “..is he really as bad as I think he is? “ Oh yes he is! These “contradictory” ,inconsistent thoughts /beliefs ( as I have read) is part of the CPTSD of the aftermath and it is called Cognitive Dissonance( which is what they create in you when you are in the toxic relation). What he has made you believe that he is vs what he really is.
-“ I live with diametrically opposed thoughts — I regret what I did, but I know it was the right thing to do.” You did what was best for you and the feeling of remorse( not guilt) is healthy.It is your empathy that triggers it.
Regarding the other questions about you having contact with your ex’s (ex?)wife and if “he has gotten away with it” because he has not been dumped by his IPPS you should consider consulting HG for better understanding.
Here are some posts that you may find useful that speak about Exposing the narcissist during different stages( devaluation,post-escape )
https://narcsite.com/2018/05/18/exposure-during-devaluation-6/
https://narcsite.com/2018/05/19/exposure-during-escape-4/
-“HG should put you on the payroll. “:
Ha, ha Wondering. No need to do that.
Helping you and others( besides feeling happy for doing it and at the same time giving me the momentum needed to remain on the other side of the fence) it is a way of expressing my gratitude to him for the help he has provided me with to finally reach my goal. I see it rather as a “payback “to him from me!
Clarifying: I meant of course pay back as of returning or giving back the help provided!
Wondering, I told his wife (anonymously, post-escape) also in part because I wanted to be sure it was over.
I did not tell him I had told her but long before, I wrote her a letter that I was going to mail but didn’t. I did tell him about the letter as a sort of warning and so he would know how close to the end of my rope I was. It didn’t scare him, change his behavior, make him angry, or cause him to disengage. It made absolutely no difference. I don’t think telling her made a difference either but I had already escaped and then they moved. We are now in different countries.
I think she chose not to believe me (we emailed for about a week) or has seen it all before (long suffering codependent etc), or only cared if any of her friends knew. If she did believe me and/or told him, it had no repercussions. I haven’t seen him in person since but I do see signs of online creeping with his aliases.
Here is the really fucked up part: after I did it, I almost told him what I did, that she did not believe me, and how funny/bizarre I found it. I figured he would find it funny too!!
Honestly, because narc is twisted, of course IPPS and IPSS will be twisted too…
Here is my thinking about it from what I have learned from HG: Narc would talk about IPPS as if she were a pet that he had to walk, play with, etc. He did not mind her finding out because fuel would pour forth. Narc could then feed off IPPS’s fuel, work on calming her down, and providing another golden period. Once he had her where he wanted her, he could commence his search for more fuel. Hence the online creeping. This golden period is coming to an end, so he is after me again (he’s a mid-ranger and either an anchor or a ping-pong). He knows that I will soon be close by and for many months…I am trying to prepare myself if I hear from him. Also trying to keep myself from breaking NC. Don’t be so sure that yours hates you and will never come back.
SuperXena:
The links you provided were VERY helpful. Again, it’s like reading a playbook. Cold fury.
I guess the only answer is to handle it one day at at time. Like I said, small town. Wondering where it will all be in a year. I read here, and it all make sense, but when confronted with real life experiences I get surprised again. It is only in the moment that I recall what I’ve learned, so I’m getting stronger.
Even HG’s articles on music as a hook — text book.
I wonder if the IPPS will ever wise up and rid herself. But after decades of conditioning it is probably unlikely. And he will still get away with it. BUT, that’s not my concern. Must just move on.
SMH:
The hate I feel is “cold fury.” But I’m pretty confident the disengagement means he won’t try to re-instate the golden period. He’ll just try to irritate now and then. It’s hard, because I thought that time was real. I don’t believe the cold fury will EVER end.
I identify exactly with the thoughts you expressed… now calling someone you thought you loved deranged. I’m looking to get to “meh,” an expression of no longer caring. The opposite of love is not hate; it’s indifference.
Yes indeed, Wondering. The goal is to get to meh
Hello Wondering,
Yes, the information provided is invaluable and accurate. It is like reading your own journey with your ex-narc.
It is a process Wondering.Just be patient and be consequent with your own(personal) plan of action.
Patience is a valuable quality. Good things come to those who wait.
“I wonder if the IPPS will ever wise up and rid herself. But after decades of conditioning it is probably unlikely. And he will still get away with it”
You should feel sorry for her. It will end up for him as it always does: crashing relationships.So he will not get away with it.
“The opposite of love is not hate; it’s indifference”
Agreed. Indifference is the antithesis ( perhaps more precisely absence) of ALL feelings. As black Black is the result of the absence or complete absorption of visible light. A synonym of darkness.
Best wishes!
Hello Wondering,
”I’m pretty sure he hates me and wont ever come back because I “hurt him so deeply.” And I’m glad.”
It depends what you mean by “coming back”.
No, he probably won’t come back to reinstall the relationship you had before( or as you want(ed) it to be).It seems that what you did was a cause of him disengaging.
But that does not take away the possibility of him “coming back” just for hoovering you.
Disengagement and hoovering are two different (narc) concepts . I believe that that is what is meant with “We are never done with people”.
Disengagement does not take away the possibility of him hoovering you back with positive or negative hoovers ( with the sole purpose i.ex.of extracting negative emotions from you as a punishment) as he is already doing with his childish attitude in meetings towards you as you explained).
Even when disengaging ( from whatever type of relationship you had with them:IPPS,IPSS ,DLS etc)they believe they always ( until death ) have the entitlement to hoover.
Hoover is to provoke in you ANY type of emotional reaction ( negative or positive)either directly( direct hoover: texting,calling etc )or indirectly( through social media ,or by proxy-friends ,lieutenants etc). For the extraction of an emotional response-when or if they need it depending on their status of their fuel matrix -but not necessarily for reinstalling the “relationship”.
This is exactly why most people get caught again thinking that a hoover ( provocation) is synonym to :” he still loves me, he cares about me, he is still thinking about me etc.) and it is not.
“I could never resist his hoovers… he had taken my “no.”
He knows this and relies on the fact that you will respond to his hoovers .
Do not give him the pleasure of you reacting anymore.
If I were you and if possible , I would seriously contemplate the alternative of changing your job, otherwise you would find it very hard to control your emotions as long as the cause of infection( him) is near you and reinforcing constantly your emotional infection.
That will give you time to work on getting your “no” back. A strong and determinate : NO.
You have the right to say NO.Don’t let him ( or anybody) take it away from you again.
Good luck!
SuperXena, This is such a great explanation of disengagement and hoovers, and how the two work together. I am pretty sure mine is indirectly hoovering through social media even though we both disengaged. I have not reacted except to be a bit freaked out that I found another fake FB profile. How many are there? No idea. Thank you very much!
You are welcome SMH and now I am going to ask you a naught question:
“ I have not reacted except to be a bit freaked out that I found another fake FB profile”
How do you know he has another fake FB profile? You are not looking and finding out, are you?
I know it is a huge temptation and it takes time but if you have, you shouldn’t.
Try by steps with shorter time goals at the beginning and then longer and longer for not looking until you do not look anymore.
Good luck!
Yes, I know I shouldn’t look, SuperXena!!! I think I am still incredulous, even though he has stalked me on three different platforms now. I never told him we couldn’t speak anymore (though I did nix our normal communication channel). Why doesn’t he connect? There must be an obvious answer that I am missing. He will get jealous if he sees how much fun I am having without him? 🙂
I have in any case stopped looking at the social media he uses to maintain the facade because, well, it’s a facade. I am interested in sneaky narc not in upstanding citizen narc.
SMH,
“Yes, I know I shouldn’t look, SuperXena!!! “
It does not matter how many times you read , how many times you are told or who tells you, if you keep reading here and interacting you will come to the point when you will realise that the “should not “ has to turn to be a “must not”.
“Why doesn’t he connect? “
Of what I have learned here and of own experience he is “testing the waters” and see if you are provoked by what he is doing indirectly to provoke you.
“He will get jealous if he sees how much fun I am having without him?”
I believe it would be more effective if he can’t see your profile. If you make the Hoover Wall / Criteria higher he won’t reach you. Just disappear for some time on all your social media.
“I am interested in sneaky narc not in upstanding citizen narc.”
Ha, ha SMH. You must not be interested in any shape or form your narc adopts (sneaky, upstanding citizen or humanoid ) whatsoever! You are at least honest with yourself when you admit this.
Oh yes, I am completely honest with myself about this, SuperXena. I am fascinated by him/it and all of it, including by my own reactions from toddler-like attachment to kicking him to the curb, from total devotion to total hatred, from calling him darling to calling him psychopath.
As for leaving social media – If I do, he will have won. (Plus I am an expat and it keeps me in the loop with friends and family all over). If I block the two profiles I know of, he will make another one and look for me and know I’ve blocked him. He will then disappear the profiles that I’ve blocked to destabilize me if I unblock – it’s all part of the virtual presence/absence thing. I know how it works.
I’m sure I’ll lose interest eventually if he does not reach out. Nothing happens on his profiles anyway. No pictures, no posts, no connections. Not much to keep me interested except that mysterious connection he cultivated virtually.
Wondering is right that HG should put you on the payroll. Thank you so much for your attention and support. For some reason, I imagine your voice is like Glinda the good witch from Wizard of Oz :-).
Hello SMH,
You are most welcome.
“For some reason, I imagine your voice is like Glinda the good witch from Wizard of Oz :-)”
Ha,ha! You really made me laugh with that one. I can imagine that some of my customers( in my professional life) can see me like that as well. I am just a more hot tempered and latin version of it! But deep ,deep I am a good one.
-“Oh yes, I am completely honest with myself about this, SuperXena. I am fascinated by him/it and all of it, including by my own reactions from toddler-like attachment to kicking him to the curb, from total devotion to total hatred, from calling him darling to calling him psychopath.”
I can totally relate to this. Love-hate, highs and lows, inconsistent and contradictory reactions, feelings and beliefs. That is how they create the addiction with the resulting Cognitive Dissonance which remains long after as part of the aftermath-(CPTSD ).As I wrote somewhere else the inconsistency of what they make you believe who they are and what they really are becomes very clear with time.
-“As for leaving social media – If I do, he will have won. “
I am afraid I have to disagree with you with this one. If you leave social media now at the beginning of the aftermath you will win your own war!
It is not a war against him( they have no rules, they change them all the time) it is a war within you to kill your intoxicated feelings!
Best wishes!
“Glinda the latin version”
It’s all designed to keep you looking. He doesn’t connect but he knows that you will keep looking to see what he is doing. Making sure that you are hooked once again. Don’t do it. It’s not worth it.
Yes, that is true, Diana. The funny thing is nothing happens – nothing to look at – the information I need is there but there are no pictures, posts or friends. The only way I can know what he is ‘doing’ is by looking at his real social media, which is public (I don’t do anything sneaky and don’t have an account on that site). But it is always the same and doesn’t tell me the ‘truth.’ It is as if we have our own language and it has been like this since the day we met. I need an exorcism!!
Actually, you know what, SuperXena? It’s the same sort of thing as the previous stalking pattern on both our parts. He wants me to know he is there as a sort of comfort/control thing and I actually feel comforted/controlled by the fact that he is there. When he stalked me on the previous platform during a really difficult six months NC, it helped me to sleep at night. He conditioned me to his virtual presence (or absence) and he knows it.
“He conditioned me to his virtual presence (or absence) and he knows it.”
Exactly SMH
You are realising things slowly with time! It feels good, doesn’t it?It will feel even better…it is like all the parts of a puzzle start to fit in…
Thank you both.
I never realized he was a narc, because he’s covert. Now I am amazed at how text book this is all playing out.
IPPS told me she was making him move out. Yet, a month later he’s still at home. Both are very concerned about community perception. I guess there “golden” again.
I was weak in ET and we exchanged messages last week. He said he was living in hell. How can that be when he’s getting tons of fuel?
I know HG has addressed a lot of this… just trying to get it in my thick head.
Wondering, Mine is also covert and I spent two years trying to get it into my thick head. I only found HG post-escape so I did it all myself (epic struggle). I hope you see now that yours doesn’t hate you. He is still using you for fuel. I also got the ‘I’m in hell’ lines and I didn’t even want him to leave IPPS, so it wasn’t as if he had to convince me of anything. I’m kind of laughing as I write this but I absolutely know how confusing and shocking it is, in part because there IS a human under there. Sometimes that human is warm and sweet, sometimes that human is funny, sometimes that human is, well, human. I miss my narc-human all the time.
You are welcome Wondering.
“Now I am amazed at how text book this is all playing out.”
Exactly. This is exactly the aim for us of the information given here. If you understand who and what you are dealing with, the solution to your problem (finally leaving him and ending this toxic relationship) is the next step.
“I was weak in ET and we exchanged messages last week”:
I believe you have read and heard this many, many times before:
The only way to strengthening and controlling your emotional thinking is by not having ANY contact with him. Try it and you will be amazed by how strong you get for every second, minute, hour(s) , days, weeks you do not have contact with him.
Otherwise you will still be trapped in his “cage”.
“ He said he was living in hell. How can that be when he’s getting tons of fuel”
It is just a manipulation to keep you hooked ( in standby) and extract fuel from you whenever he wants /needs depending on the status of his fuel matrix.
But you do not really want him to decide, do you?
Ah. I have ALWAYS wondered about the sudden mid call hang up. Can you please elaborate on what the thrill is for the narc with this one?
It is the assertion of superiority through control and the gathering of Thought Fuel (and possibly Proximate Fuel if you then chase after us).
Thanks, HG!
Ghastly to see ones weakness from the eyes of a predator. However, I don’t feel bad anymore because I know it wasn’t entirely responsible. Like most girls I was programmed to be sexually promiscuous and attracted to monsters. Every princess fairy tale is a sticky sweet trap of romantic expectations that makes innocent girls ripe fruit. We are trained to love the Beast. It’s the game of wolves and sheep the Bible lays out. I find you absolutely irresistable HG hence, why I have been tagged out of the game and remain happily single and celibate, I have terrible taste in men.
I am always grateful for the articles, this one hit way too close to home. He has been exposed again and I have gone NC for good. I am stronger, more informed and less tolerant of the bs. Thank you, HG…I would have never made it without you.
HG gives his readers a huge lens in which to view his perspective of the world-specifically his view of women. He is quite candid. May I ask what traits in HG do you find irresistible?
I am attracted to HG and his kind because since childhood that is what I have been programed to be attracted to I really can’t help it. I have narc parents, narc siblings, narc ex husband. I would say I have/had a Messiah complex. I think I can save them. Just like Belle in beauty and the Beast. I mean, why in God’s name would such a beautiful talented girl want a monster? Because It’s a set up to make girls think if they love perfectly the monster will turn into a Prince. Monsters spin these tales make no mistake about it. My last narc tore me open and I became what HG calls a broken appliace but in doing so he set me free. Narcs are poison fruit they are lovely, tantalizing and appear to be everything you ever wanted but inside is as the Biblle says, they are full of dead mans bones. HG’s brilliant discourse serves as daily delicious fuel for me. I can indulge my nuturing nature and feel bad for him but at a very safe distance and his analysis serves as a constant reminder of what I have been saved from. Best wishes Tar, thanks for your interest😃