The Narcissist and Marriage
Marriage. Widely-regarded as one of the central events in a person’s life. Whether it is a traditional church affair with white wedding dress, a civil ceremony inside a football stadium, something unusual such as at the bottom of a swimming pool, a same sex union, a week long Indian wedding or getting spliced in front of Elvis in Las Vegas, marriage remain a celebration.
It is the idea that two people want to spend the rest of their days together. The concept that this other person is so important to you that you wish to pledge your fidelity, allegiance and your entire self to your significant other before whichever personal god you worship. Notwithstanding the differing ways weddings occur, it remains a joyous occasion and one which many people aspire to, with differing ideas of how the day will look and feel. People seek a happy, long and fulfilling marriage. Sometimes that does not work out, sometimes it does. Our kind are no strangers to marriage, indeed, of those people who marry more than once, our kind are probably well-represented. One might be forgiven for thinking that our kind are particular devotees of the concept of marriage and in some respects, that is correct, but not for reasons people would expect. How do we regard marriage?
- It is a brilliant device for future faking. Those who are love devotees, which includes empathic people, want to marry. They consider the act of union with the person that they love to be hugely significant and a true marker of intent and desire. Our kind utilise the significance that is attributed to marriage as the means by which we can continue to draw people to us and also keep them bound to us, even if we have not married them. The promise of marriage at some future point is a definite ace to play to prevent an appliance from drifting away. Whether this is an IPPS who we live with or a Candidate IPSS we have high hopes for or even a Shelf IPSS who has not (unsurprisingly) worked out what they are, the potential to become married is tempting indeed. The promise of marriage becomes a large comfort crumb to feed to the appliance and involves sentences such as:
“I think we should get married at some point.”
“When I get the next promotion, I think we should consider getting married.”
“We ought to get married next year.”
“When someone is as happy as you and I, we really ought to be married.”
“I often think about what it would be like to be married.” (Not necessarily to you though)
“Can you imagine how great it would be if we got married?”
There is no proposal of marriage, no definite confirmation that this should take place but rather a vague and amorphous intention which can easily be put back when we choose so we can keep using this as a tempting morsel to keep you interested. It does not just have to be about stating an intention to get married but will include:-
a. Looking at engagement rings but never buying one;
b. Considering suitable wedding venues but never booking anything;
c. Discussing honeymoons but not booking anything;
d. Mentioning it to family and friends;
e. Drawing up potential guests lists but never doing anything with them;
f. Considering where to have the wedding list;
g. Considering what items to have on the wedding list;
h. Discussing colours for outfits, flowers, a theme and so forth but making no concrete decisions.
Such is the allure of the idea of getting married that it is probably the largest comfort crumb that can be fed to an appliance and the largest piece of future faking.
2. Marriage is extremely effective at binding an IPPS to us. We want to ensure that person is ours, owned by us and therefore by becoming engaged and getting married within a short time of meeting the IPPS we secure this individual and bind them to us through the institution of marriage. The appliance is made to feel ultra-special by us proposing to them and then marrying them.
3. It reinforces the concept of love which appeals to the empathic love devotee. As the song goes, ‘love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage’. Love and all of its binding abilities, supportive elements and fuelling connotations goes hand in hand with marriage and therefore getting married is seen as a supreme act of love. Accordingly, marriage is always going to prove an excellent move with regards to ensnaring a choice empathic victim.
4. The façade. Being married tells the world that we can attract somebody, that somebody loves us, that we are desirable. It suggests stability and reliability and as such is a useful device for bolstering the façade so we are regarded as respectable and honourable. As Alec Baldwin stated in the film, The Departed
“Marriage is an important part of getting ahead. It lets people know you’re not a homo. A married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think “at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch.” Ladies see the ring, they know immediately that you must have some cash, and your cock must work.”
Several elements there which would support the façade and also appeal to our notion of getting ahead, and being seen as desirable.
5. Stability. This is a two pronged matter. The outside world, as mentioned above in the quote, regards a married person as more stable which helps with the façade. It also however helps our kind maintain stability with regards to the provision of fuel. This is especially important for the Lesser and Mid-Range Narcissists who may not have the sophisticated fuel matrices of the Greater. By securing the IPPS in this manner through marriage, the narcissist is gaining the advantage of knowing that there is going to be a reliable source of fuel for some time (both positive and then negative).
6. Religion. Whilst not as important as it once was (witness the rise of civil ceremonies) religion still plays an important part for many people with regard to the concept of marriage and where religion is a fundamental part of the life of the targeted victim, then this is something that we will exploit. Adhering to the religious significance of marriage enables us to use to not only draw a victim to us but also to bind them to us too.
7. The Preparation. Most weddings require considerable preparation. The wedding venue, a reception venue, what food will be served, whether there is a theme, stag and hen parties, guest lists, what will be worn, where people will sit, the wedding list, the wedding vehicles, the entertainment and so on and so forth. This provides us with numerous opportunities for the provision of fuel by repeatedly talking about our forthcoming nuptials, being able to show off in terms of extravagance, settling old scores and creating new ones through those who are invited and those who are not. There are a myriad of possibilities to use this occasion to our advantage when engaging in the preparation. Indeed, the different opportunities for gaining fuel merit an article in itself with regard to the run-up to and the preparation for a wedding.
8. The wedding day. This is one huge fuel fest. So many adoring appliances, jealous appliances, love-lorn and emotional. Everywhere we go, all eyes are on us. Scores of fuel lines running from us to all of these appliances, from the staff waiting on us, the vicar, the bridesmaids, the bride/groom, the guests. The power surge from all of the positive fuel (and there will be some negative fuel in there too – always pays to invite an ex appliance along just to keep things spiced up. My ex-wife repeatedly reminded me how she was surprised to find one of my exes at our wedding. I wasn’t surprised by how much fuel it kept providing me with thereafter). The day is one of fuel form start to finish and whilst everyone else is enjoying themselves through seeing love requited, the flowing alcohol and interesting dancing, we are gorging on the fuel that is flowing.
It is also worth making mention of The Pinnacle Effect. This is one of the interesting consequences of a wedding. Once the marriage has been secured there are those of our kind who find the explosion of fuel to be the best it can be in terms of positive fuel. This is also allied with the fact that the marriage also means that our kind see that the IPPS is totally embedded and ensnared. This results in the Pinnacle Effect. It is not evident with every wedding that occurs between narcissist and victim, indeed it less likely than more likely, but it is still worth mentioning. Once the ceremony has been completed, the reception attended and either the happy couple head off on their honeymoon or retire to their suite that night, The Pinnacle Effect occurs. The positive fuel is as good as it gets, the IPPS is ensnared and thus the devaluation begins. I have heard of numerous occasions where the blushing bride has become the bludgeoned bride or the amorous groom finds himself the alienated groom instead. The devaluation commences through being frozen out, verbally attacked or even physically assaulted.
9. Marriage applies to you and not to us. You have said the vows and we expect and demand you to comply with them. You will be faithful to us, you will look after us in sickness and in health, you will remain with us for better or for worse, for richer or poorer and so forth. You belong to us. That is the central tenet of the Narcissistic Relationship and the sealed nuptials confirms this to be the case. You will abide by these vows and be a reliable, faithful and compliant spouse. Of course with our sense of entitlement, lack of boundary recognition and failure to account, those vows do not apply to us. We will say them but we will not abide by them.
10. Marriage is a useful device. If you transgress in some way, we will hurl your vows at you (regardless of what we have done to offend them) and we will tell all and sundry that you have sullied the sacred name of marriage. We will wail about ‘wanting to make the marriage work’ when we perceive that you may be trying to escape us. We use the concept of marriage as a manipulative device to further our aims. You must be tied to us, you must save the marriage and not walk away from it, it is a yoke about your neck and a means to an end for us.
11. Stickability. The fact that you are married to us and you believe in the concept of marriage means that you are less likely to give up on it. You do not like to fail and you do not want to walk away without having tried to make it work. Binding you to us in this fashion means that we force you to keep trying and to cling on to us, with all the attendant benefits which subscribe to the Prime Aims also.
12. Divorce. If we marry you and we decide or you have the audacity to try to escape then it follows that divorce must take place. It is not a straight forward case of packing a bag and walking away. The fact that marriage requires a divorce if you seek to escape it provides us with further opportunities to draw fuel, bolster the façade and either hoover you back in or make your life a misery by pillorying you through the divorce proceedings.
It is rare to find a narcissist who has not been married and with some of our kind the marriages will number two or more. And why not? The institution of marriage is ripe for exploitation to further our narcissistic agenda.
Little wonder we are so ready to say ‘I do’.
If only you knew this beforehand so you could have said, ‘I do not’.
64 thoughts on “The Narcissist and Marriage”
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HG, if you marry again, knowing all you know about yourself and empaths/codependents, with all your groundbreaking insight, isn’t there an inevitability about it all that you, as a self aware narcissist, must be able to see and know in your heart that it’s doomed to failure. And not even marriage, just the next victim you ensnare. Surely at some point, despite your need for fuel, you MUST realise it always ends the same way. And even if you’re happy for it to end that way (discard/negative fuel) as you age, don’t you think – maybe it’s time I tried something else, this really isn’t working for me. Not really.
I ask with all due respect to you, of course. x
No because there is the potential for there to be a different dynamic entirely.
But doesn’t the same story still repeat itself. Diff dynamic perhaps but same story in the end. It’s just awaiting the inevitable.
That remains to be seen – it would be a very different dynamic.
That sounds like a very hopeful response, HG.
This is what “my” narcissist believes about him/me…that I’ve got a different connection with him — and a combination of traits — that make our dynamic an exception.
However, he accepts (to date) that we’re only going to be friends. I show him a lot of patience/understanding…and make him laugh a lot, while keeping him on his toes at times (a balance is needed). I use my wisdom and intuition (and knowledge gained via HG) to gently bring up difficult things at times… then I ease up, and wait on him.
At times, he won’t avoid hard things, like aspects of his childhood… and will open up a little bit. I show empathy, but I also never say anything to him that is not genuine. I watch what I share on my end.
As of yet, he does not devalue or attempt to hurt me. There has been a gradual softening to him. His mood is better than before.
For my part, I’m always aware of the narcissism and am able to be more logical. I feel good about making a difference, however slight, in easing a bit of his suffering at times. I’m not advocating for this kind of thing; it’s always a risk to engage with a narcissist, but I feel strong and at peace; I’ve got firm boundaries and good support.
Only time will tell if he can sustain this unusual friendship – and make improvements for himself, with therapy.
I know there are many, many things I can never — will never — know about his narcissism…so I do my best, and am open to what I will learn from this.
What a glorious undertaking that would be. I would love to read the writings inspired by such a pairing. An intimate narcissist/empath relationship with absolute transparency. Sounds fun!
HG, is it possible for two narcs to have a long marriage?
Yes.
Thank you
Exactly, FoolMe. I left four or five times because I could not figure out what he wanted. I finally detached enough to escape but it took months to completely end it. Now he’s hovering online and I STILL do not know what he wants. HG has a post ‘What Do We Want’ because obviously this is part of the whole mindfuck. And yes, our strength does come from empathy. It makes us flexible and resilient. Narcs are the fragile ones, which is why they do what they do.
Omg the Pinnacle Effect – the day after the wedding he quit working, quit touching me, and the abuse began.
My X loved the attention on our wedding day. His speech was superb. He handed flowers out to couples whos wedding anniversary was on that same day. I thought that was a bit weird, but went along with it. Thinking how thoughtful he was.
But on the wedding night – no hanky panky. He was too tired.
On the honeymoon, no hanky panky – he didn’t like doing it in a strange bed!!
We argued all the way home from the honeymoon.
LOL
if only I had known then what I know now.
Thanks HG
Only one word for that JH…annulment!
MB Oh we had sex before marriage and after – had children. But on the wedding night and honey moon – when it is legal and when it should be the happiest, most romantic and passionate time – it was ZILCH. He knew what he was doing. git
HG, the narc I m presently escaping from was pressuring myself and another appliance at the same time to marry him. She said yes to a ringless proposal only to discover his cheating.
She attempted to end her life due to the emotional confusion.
my question for you is; Do you and your kind delight in fuel from women being so beaten down by your abuse that they turn to ending the pain by ending their lives ?
Does this make you feel a heightened sense of value ?
See the article Why The Narcissist Wants You Dead
To finally have something in common ?
Janet
I was in the place your friend was at two times. Ending my life was the only thought that seemed to work for me. It was HG both times through email that saved me! The second time I was almost there. I thought that would be the only place I would finally find peace. HG spent one on one time convincing me not to finish what I had started! To this day, I don’t think he even realized I had started what I thought would be an end to all the mental anguish I was having. Yes he is a narcissist, but my respect and gratitude will always be something he has. Please read the article HG has suggested to you. 🌻
WOW…this made me cry. How awful for you. But I do agree with the fact That HG…….heartless as he may be…….is doing much good now.
Hope your life is happier now FoolME1Time…or at least you are at peace.
Thank you Kim e 🌻
Oh wow… Glad you found what you needed to make it through. He’s saved many lives.
Jess
Thank you. Yes he has. I don’t agree with what he’s does and the innocent people he has hurt. But it’s also very important for everyone to remember he is also a victim in all of this!
Glad you are still with us, foolme1time!
Thank you. I’m very lucky to have found HG when I did. 🌻
I am so glad you found him in time, Foolme1time!! I was not nearly as in need as you but I was so relieved when I found HG. One searches all over the Internet for answers and nothing seems quite right and then boom. You know it when you’ve found it. Your body and mind start to relax because it all begins to make sense. You know it is not your fault (we are empaths so we always think we did something wrong) and you know that it wasn’t really even about you (hurtful but also provides relief).
Oh I so understand that! I was left with why is he doing all of these things to me! If he didn’t want to be with me all he had to do was say so! I thought I was truly going crazy! I found HG! I read and read some more! Finally Someone who understood. But the very sad part was there were so many more victims just like me. It always hurts! We are empath. Sometimes I believe that is were are true strength comes from. 🌻
You’re a hero to so many HG! Beautiful story, I love happy endings. I’m glad you’re still with us FM1T.
What compelled you in this situation HG? You say you don’t “care”. I’m curious if you don’t mind answering, Sir.
MB, he would of lost a reader! Even a little fuel is better then no fuel at all! Thank you MB, I’m glad I pulled through that very dark time also.🌻
I know that’s not the reason FM1T! I can see it as appealing to his omnipotence. I was hoping he would shed some light on his motivation in this regard.
I’ve been suicidal before although not because of a narc relationship. I get it. It’s not that you want to be dead or gone, it’s just that you don’t want to feel that way anymore. You just want the pain to stop.
Actually MB there was a time on the blog that HG, Clarece, and someone else was running interference for another blogger who was in the same type of situation as I was. Do you remember this Clarese?
FM1T! Are you referring to the gal who’s name I recall was “Libertygal…” (with some numbers)? I believe that was two summers ago. I had been on here nearing one year. She had suicide ideation around the 4th of July. It was very triggering for me with that time frame being a year prior when JN had pulled his worst stunt with me (which included standing me up for a hotel weekend over the 4th of July holiday and then blaming me for not being able to see me because he knew I talked to my therapist about him).
I felt so protective towards her because she was at a breaking point and sharing her thoughts which were at an alarmingly and despairingly low point. I literally felt like if HG knew how to reach her personally and knew a real name to almost call 911 so someone could check on her. She seemed so fragile the one night she was sharing her thoughts on the blog. And I recall many of the readers rallying behind her sending supportive comments and HG was very responsive in putting those thru quickly. I don’t know if he reached out to her privately as well. But she appeared on and off for some time afterwards so I believe she is on the upswing and doing better.
I’m sorry if I mixed up and that wasn’t the reader you were referring to though.
I wanted to add FM1T I am so glad you had the breakthrough you did with HG and you are here to continue to share. You’ve always been so kind to me. I think of you very fondly with several of the longtimers here who’ve reached out to me here or offblog.
Clarece,
That is the one I was thinking about. It was wonderful the way everyone rallied around her. I’ll never forget that! Thank you for your kind words! I think fondly of you also. As I do many on this blog. 🌻😘
Actually Clarece this is about the time we should be seeing something from NA! I was thinking maybe 🤢🤮! Because of all the sappy sugary talk. 😂
Oh I think this is why NA does stick around too though, because she appreciates the sincerity of the support she sees in the readers she has gotten to know. Lol
Now, i do recall Ah-Oh complaining that I came across too sweet almost giving her a cavity one time. And she wasn’t kidding. 😂
I remember that! Lol. I don’t think NA will leave us no matter how mushy we get! 😝.
Foolmeonetime
I remember that, too. I agree that I don’t think we will could run off NA. She has her humor to protect herself like a magic cape from too much sweetness. 💖 lol!
Foolme1time and Clarece
I do appreciate that you can for that for one another and for others. That is not my strong suit or style as you know. Best left to the experts such as yourselves.
An expert I am not NA. But I hope you know how much I enjoy reading your comments on the blog. I only recently started commenting again. Sometimes I just like to stay in the back ground and read what others are writing. But it actually feels good to be commenting again. You also should know that this blog would not be the same without you here! Have a good weekend NA. 🌷
NA! You’re a Good Egg! You go out of your way to try to talk to as many readers as possible and you are a huge advocate for children’s safety. Plus laughter thru tears can be the best medicine and you bring the comic relief almost daily!
foolme1time,
I am sorry to hear you felt so low that you considered the taking of your own life.
I am pleased to hear Hg has helped you cope and remain here.
But, give credit to yourself for doing the work required to survive.
For healing.
Yes, Hg has written, suicide is merely loss of fuel to him.
His purpose for you was most likely to give you information to show you why you must not succumb
Must not allow the narcissist to defeat your will.
He appealed to your sense of self preservation.
To win and survive.
You listened.
And now try to help others.
Hg does much good here.
Intentional or otherwise.
No wonder you are such a staunch advocate of his.
He is a saviour to you.
It is hard to read how narcissists
have driven some victims to such despair.
Their malicious power over others.
But, we need to hear theses stories
To keep us from being sucked back in.
Annalise,
That is one reason I told this story, so others will not get sucked backed in. So they can read that they are not alone in all of this, that others have been where they are and survived! My number one reason for still being on here is to help others get through this hell that we were thrown into! I am and always will be an advocate of HGs! I know at one time in his life he felt the same type of despair. His way of surviving was to shut all emotion down, to hurt others before he himself could be hurt again. As I always say on here, HG is a victim also!
Thank you for sharing your story.
Yes, Hg was a victim at one time.
I doubt he sees himself as one any longer.
The positive by product of his disorder is the information he provides to everyone on this blog,
To help remedy our own abuse.
Though he may not see this blog as such.
But it,
is a way for him to give back to other victims of similar abuse.
To not destroy others in this specific place.
I believe HG has his own reasons for building this blog the way he has. Each of us may see his reasoning differently but in the end all that matters is that the blog is here helping so many victims that have been abused by narcissists. Have a great weekend Annalise!🌻
Happy weekend to you as well.
foolme1time
I can think of a number of reasons for creating this blog.
HG Tudor’s wish:
1. to share his information of narcissism with the world;
2. to learn more about himself;
3. to learn more about empaths and other types;
4. that an Amanda would discover the blog;
5. to help others, and expand his circle of friends/acquaintances;
6. to receive gratification from interactions, labour and revenue;
7. for revenge against his mother (perhaps others too) when the time is right;
8. to seek use of the blog to mitigate an argument of his reformation with his mother or build a strong standing in contesting the validity of his mother’s will for a share of his inheritance in the probate court.
Do you agree?
My presumptions may be rebutted, and you may add your own points of course.
So glad you were able to resist acting on those feelings FM1T. You’re a precious person.
😘🌻
Janet, you are asking a psychopath whether or not he gets a heightened sense of value, power, fuel, and feels superiority with someone killing themselves??? Especially if they’ve made and caused them to be suicidal?
Um….just one word….. Psychopath?!?!
They love it the same as when they degrade a person sexually too…. they literally do not care, feel any remorse or accountability. No conscience, no guilt, nothing! They are empty hollow shells of a human.
Some of their cocks work too apparently!
Incorrect. Read the article referred to.
A dead appliance is a useless appliance.
Still doesn’t mean they won’t make you feel like you want to kill yourself and enjoy pissing you to that state….
A dead person no longer has any life in them. I know how a narc views people.
I am familiar with narc language and I can speak it if I need to.
But I do not wish to adopt their view of people. People are not appliances. I will never view people in such a utilitarian way.
I know you know this.
But when I read this article, it did suggest that a narc would help that person or maybe coerce them, into suicide, because they are receiving fuel from this.
Maybe they won’t like the final act itself, but they certainly would not stop all the actions that maybe led up to it. I know what it is like to feel suicidal. With no way out. So I guess I have very strong opinions on this.
To me, this is completely inhumane and a very low person indeed, to make a person suffer in this way to such an extent the person wants to end their life.
The narc thinks they have the power and superiority, but they’ve got it all the wrong way around. They “show” in every way how cowardly and weak they are to do such a thing just because they want their next fix. It totally disgusts me! Like most of what they do to humans (appliances). There is no excuse. They are accountable. They are the ones with delusions, not us.
What do you know at 22?
The silent treatment for hours?? I only asked if he couldn’t close the cupboard doors after opening.
Sat up in the woods crying….this didn’t make sense.
He hugs me when I come back in the house. “Don’t worry, someday you’ll meet Mr. Right”.
Not knowing why, I told this man 14 years my senior, that I thought I did.
“Well maybe, in like a year, if we still get along, we’ll get married.”
A year later, and I had well learned to mind my Ps and Qs…..I sheepishly mention “the wedding?”
That week while in town for groceries, he pulled into a jewelry store parking lot.
“Go on in and pick out something. Just make sure it doesn’t cost more than $300.00”
He then proceeded to order something for himself from a catalog, for $300.00
All from my credit card of course.
40 years too late I now get it.
Thanks to your writings I am somehow more at peace.
It makes sense. I feel renewed and powerful to know I had such resilience!!
I feel like the “whole one” now.
I wasn’t crazy after all except to trust and believe.
Does this mean I am a narc? I can relate to all of it from the narc perspective, except that I am super faithful, independent, and don’t like being married. I once told narc that if I ever said I was getting married again, to please shoot me and put me out of my misery. He needs to be married. Not me. Anyway, interesting to see that you were married, HG. Maybe others knew this but I did not. Don’t do it again.
Question HG. My MMRN used to make comments like “ I don’t want to get married “ “ are you looking to get married “. when I was a candidate IPSS. I never really answered him
What was he looking for?
Fuel.
HG, what kid of fuel is derived from a question? It’s so confusing. You basically need to not talk to not offer any fuel 😱
If the question contains emotion, then you are providing fuel.
Hi Emz. Not sure I understand your question correctly, but I guess it is related to Kim e’s narc telling her he did not want to get married and asking if she did. The way I see it is that such statement and question may be hurtful for a woman. It may be felt as “ you are not good enough for me”, “I don’t love you enough”, “you need to try harder to convince me to marry you”, etc. It is designed to provoke an emotional reaction in the woman, especially if she is an IPSS “competing” with the IPPS.
Great post! The narc I was with has not yet married any supply. He had a child with the first main supply, purchased a ring as a ‘show’ with no intention to use it. He then went onto me, we lived together, had a child and he purchased a ring … which was never used. He was upset that I did not talk about our future and marriage and he pushed and pushed to get a ring sorted!! Go figure ….
He’d always claim his parents divorce scarred him and that weddings are expensive. Yet when you first meet him, he drafts wedding invite lists, talks about marriage and growing old together. He is now 37 and onto the next supply which seems to be working out well. We may just see a wedding yet 🙊