5 Reasons It Cannot Work With A Narcissist
Five reasons it cannot work
1. Nothing about the golden period is real
It feels like every day is summer doesn’t it? Warm and wonderful. No rain clouds anywhere, just a cornflower blue sky. Not a cloud to be had. Everything is fantastic. We do everything together. We match on every conceivable level. I like what you like. We laugh at the same things. We enjoy the same books and films. I know what you are about to say. We like to cook together, try new wines and explore interesting places. Whether it is forest or foam, city or village we both enjoy going to these places and do so together. We are soulmates. I do not want anyone but you. You have finally met the person that you have wanted all of your life. You still cannot believe how lucky you are to have found someone like me, someone who cares for you, holds you, loves you and showers you with attention, praise and affection. What would you do without me? You struggle to even remember what life was like before I appeared, shiny and exciting. You never want it to end and you allow this golden effect to permeate deep inside you, touching every part of you. Every fibre of your being is coated with my golden touch. None of it is real. You have spent all your time looking at a mirror whilst wrapped in an illusion. I was never any of those things. I just showed you wanted you wanted to see, said what you wanted to hear and did what you wanted to experience. I am a con-man, a charlatan and a fraudster who trades in fake love and steals your true love. I am not what you think I am, I never was and I never will be.
2. Nothing is ever good enough
How soon the golden and glistening empire rots and rusts, those gleaming towers of glass and chrome shatter and crumble. What once seemed like it would stand for a thousand millennia has come crashing down. You scurry left and right, attending and caring, working yourself into a frenzied confusion as you try to hold it together. You cannot accept that this is happening and you try your utmost to stop the cascading stone and the splintering timber but it is an impossible task. You can no more prevent this edifice from tumbling to the ground than you can hold back the tide. The manifestation of this crumbling empire and your frantic efforts to rebuild it comes in how you try and try to please me. You give more of yourself each day in your desire to salvage what you understand, wrongly, to be us. You steadily erode your integrity in a bid to please me, make me happy and do whatever it takes to make things good once again. Each time you think you have got there, the bar is raised higher and then higher still. You keep giving and I keep taking. What worked last week is now scorned. What made me tell you that I loved you a month ago annoys me instead. I no longer want to be with you or be touched by you. No matter how hard you work, cook, clean, tidy and care. No matter how much effort you put into maintaining your figure, dressing attractively and taking an interest in my day, you are only ever met with scowls, scorn and abuse. You do not give up, not yet, but you fail to realise that this is a hole which can never be filled.
3. Nothing stops the games being played
The tears in your eyes will not abate the cruelty. The soft glistening tears which roll down your cheeks only appear as blood to the cruising shark. A green light to continue with the denigration and vicious nastiness in order to provoke more emotion from you. Today is a day of silence. The shoulder cold and brutal as you try to fathom out what is wrong and what you have done. Tomorrow is all smiles again although you are none the wiser as to what has happened to change that but by sundown you will be traipsing to a cold and empty bed as I vanish once again. I sit in my chair seemingly staring into nothingness but I am mentally flicking through my Devil’s Toolkit as I consider my next move. I arrange the pieces, you, my friends, my family, your friends, the neighbours and the man in the sandwich shop. All of you pawns on my giant chessboard as I decide where you should go. You try to learn the rules, to stay onside and avoid transgression but these games are played with just one rule. There are no rules. I revel in my gamesmanship as each day I deploy a new machination against you. These games will tear you apart and you can never hope to win at them.
4. Nothing surpasses fuel
Everything revolves around obtaining fuel, from you, form him and from her. It is a ceaseless quest for my lifeblood which ensures that I am always on the hunt. Restless until I find sufficient fuel and then planning the next move, this need comes above all else. Events are disrupted, dates are delayed, birthdays are ruined and anniversaries forgotten all in order to acquire my fuel. Your needs are placed way below mine, for fuel is everything. I have no responsibilities save the acquisition of fuel so children, jobs, money, health and harmony are all left at the wayside, neglected and abandoned to enable me to pursue the only thing that truly matters to me. I will do anything, say anything and be anything to obtain this fuel. Fuel makes me hurt you, fuel makes me seduce your best friend, fuel makes me fire the nice guy in the office, fuel makes me take centre stage at get togethers. Fuel is all.
5. Nothing will ever change.
There are those of my kind who know not what they are and any such attempts to pin them with the blame of awareness will be resisted with the speed and instinct of pulling your hand away from a flame. They do not know what they are but they know that you are the enemy, seeking to foist change when it is not needed, a part of your attempt to control them and punish them when they have done nothing wrong. Change is not needed and will never happen with them. Those of us who know what we do see no reason to change. We are conquerors, pioneers, leaders and ubermensch. We are supreme beings and we are always right. You make the changes to yourself and fit in with my new world order. I am mightier than you. This all works for me so why should I change? I am not required to change, I am the decider, I am not the one who is decided upon. I rule. I am not ruled. This is how it is and it shall always be the case. Deal with it. I will not change and I cannot change. I know what I am but I choose this, who would not do so when you are as triumphant and brilliant as I am? Nothing will ever change.
Besides, I am terrified of change.
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I just loved this post! It really moved me. In fact I printed it and we read it in the coffee shop with my friend. HG, u r brilliant as always!
The part “Nothing is ever good enough” reminded me of an old folk story we have in my country. Here it is:
The squirrel needed a new shelter for the upcoming winter. She looked everywhere but there were no empty hollows. She asked the woodpecker to carve a brand new hollow in one pine tree.
The woodpecker said that his work will cost her to fill with hazelnuts all of the 10 deer tracks that were left on the mud of the forest pathway.
The squirrel looked at the 10 deer traces and decided that the price was fair.
So she started scurrying left and right, to gather nuts and to fill those hollows in the mud.
But every time when the squirrel was away the greedy woodpecker would take some nuts away so that every time she returned to the 10 deer traces there was still more place to fill in.
Each time she thought she had got there, it turned out that there was still more to do.
She kept giving and he kept taking.
Hiding behind the trees, the fox saw the whole scheme. (The fox here is HG, hehehe).
The fox was a crafty user like the woodpecker but for some unknown reason he hated the bird.
His mischievous smile on his face, the fox called the empathic squirrel behind the trees and made her see how the narcissistic woodpecker stole all her nuts and made her go nuts.
Actually the Fox was not pitying the squirrel, he educated her because he had fun/fuel.
Thank you, Foxy!
“What does the Fox say?”
Hi, HG! How have you been lately?
Correction needed or not? ::: “I just showed you WANTED you wanted to see” must be “I just showed you WHAT you wanted to see”
Y/N?
Test
HG,
There is only one reason why it won’t work with a narc. Because he/she is a narc. A wise man once told me such!
Good point PH.
Townsend and Cloud, the authors of ‘Boundaries’, wrote “where there is deception, there is no relationship”.
I found this profound.
Any relationship or friendship must have honesty and respect as bare minimum requirements. Otherwise there can never be trust. Or love.
A person can be so fettered by co-dependant behaviour & toxic people-pleasing, and so out of touch with what they really feel, or really like, that they are as fake as the narcissist’s “I love you”s, and therefore no real relationship is possible with them either.
I can’t help but wonder. I know this narcissist to be of low intelligence, with violent tendencies, who did not realize his narcissist traits until it was pointed out by several others who are not connected to each other over several years time. He even asked me what the word meant early on, and was clearly confused, and dismissed it. He attended AA and counseling for his alcoholism, so why not counseling for this, too? 🤔
I generally want everyone to be happy and healthy. I hope this for him, maybe blindly, and definitely from a distance.
@Windstorm
Windstorm,
“He could choose ways that are less destructive to others, if he wished to. How he changes is of course his choice, but he can and does change.”
I agree with you to a certain point. I used to think like you do now . I could see adaptations of behaviours to less destructive .I just had forgotten ( in my naivety?) a “little” fact that weighs tones in this analysis:
They do not have remorse or conscience. So if they modify behaviours is always dictated by the rule of fuel potency vs energy consumption regardless if it is a destructive behaviour or not as long as they get the most fuel with minimum energy consumption.
It is always a balance between upsides and dowmsides for them.
Super Xena, and the rest, wasn’t it HG himself who said he has learned that he does not have to be so hateful and destructive ( I don’t remember the exact words he used, where’s k when you need her? Lol) when dealing with his victims since meeting with the Drs and commenting with us on the blog? Isn’t that change?
Foolmeonetime
Yes it is change and may it continue.
foolme1time
I was at the Science museum today with the kids, is this the comment you are referring to?
DoForLuv
JUNE 3, 2018 AT 15:49
Have you ever since you realised its the “ narcissism” with your ever growing awareness feel hesitation like should I do this or not (towards your victims)
HG Tudor
JUNE 4, 2018 AT 13:29
Good point. In certain instances I have adopted a more prosocial approach, so I have considered the way forward rather than being as instinctive in some instances, so I suppose you might see that as a form of hesitation.
https://narcsite.com/2018/06/03/the-narcissists-prime-aims-2/#comments
Hi K! Hope you had fun at the museum. That’s not the comment, it would of been 2017 or perhaps even 2016. I’m just not sure anymore. Thank you for taking the time to look for it! I was actually teasing when I said where’s K when you need her. I am always amazed at how you find everything so fast. 🌻
Thank you foolme1time
We had a great time! I vaguely remember reading a comment in the archives similar to what you described. I will search for it and post it if I find it!
Thank you. 😊
Hello foolme1time,
I believe you have already received the answer from K the effective librarian!
I am afraid though that these adaptations of behaviour into more prosocial(less destructive) will still be ruled by the core principle of upsides vs downsides.
If adapting a behaviour to a more prosocial one does not give them any upsides (/or brings them any downsides) they will probably do not do it.
What I mean is that the reason for doing it won’t be for not causing harm to others ( as we empaths would do it for) but mostly because this will probably bring them an advantage.
Any way, regardless of the intent I can see this (re)adaptation as one into a very positive direction.
That’s been my interpretation also.
Test
Regarding changing of the narcissist: There are many psychopaths who have had good childhoods; they were born with differences in their brains. At present, I hold out no hope for these individuals. In considering those who fall under the label of psychopath who were not born this way, the very least I can say, is that there is a minute possibility that there could be an individual who is the exception to the rule. The rule breaker, though not likely. The one rule, the boundary, that every psychopath must obey is that they must not face their fear and heal, never ever face reality. This is why they claim to be the rule breakers, the no boundaries masters. It keeps them from facing the mighty boundary and heavy rule that controls them. It is a mind game, the mind game in their mind. I do feel pity for them, and I feel for us too. I don’t know if there ever can be, an individual, an exception to The Rule, but I very much doubt it. Fear and love are extremely powerful, and fear often wins, as is the case, hiding like a thief, wearing the mask of rage and envy.
To elaborate on fear, this is what I meant: The narcissist lives in an uncontrollable state of perceived lack, which is fear. The fear state of lack presents as greed, rage, envy, and imitation(lies and behaviors, also the false self). The individual must always be in control, gaining all that he/she can for himself in the environment, people and things, no difference. The narcissist seeks out to destroy what he cannot possess, what he cannot produce within himself, this is when envy becomes rage(silent or outright). The empathic individual is the epitome of all reminders of what he lacks, what makes him the lesser human, the incomplete, the lacker of something. Not all know this on a conscious level, true, but it`s there nonetheless. Even in a perceived starving state at times, it is a fantasy of thought addiction to get some of what they lack by proxy through another person`s emotions, when actually the truth is that they are setting out to destroy what they cannot themselves possess, the empath`s emotions. I cannot picture anyone coming out of this kind of disorder. To them it would probably be like killing themselves, in a way. Speaking only of those not born with the brain abnormality.
Wow very well put!! The last conversation or should I say yelling across the driveway, at the end you will never be happy you will never find happiness you will never have nothing! Because you are a broken record that will continue to play the same dreadfully but well known note over and over, he responded but I will always have fun doing so! 😔
“To them it would probably be like killing themselves, in a way”…..how truthful. I remember having a “deep talk” with my husband (me not knowing at that time he was a narcissist). It was at the beginning of our relationship when he was still willing to lead long discussions with me. Although I adored him back then, I had the intrusive feeling there was something odd in our relationship, like an invisible wall between us – I just was not able to identify what it was. We were talking very intensively about our relationship and I remember asking him if he could try to change and behave differently in a certain situation and he replied sadly and pifitully: “No, I can’t change in this. Because then it wouldn’t be “ME” anymore”….
Wow Kat, well said. I am new to this Narcissistic Behavior Disorder discussion and a healthcare employee that should know better. In school the word Narcissism probably was introduced in at least three of my university degree’s yet I’ve never paid attention? The last five years, I’ve been involved with one of these people, never understanding exactly what was wrong with her, yet understanding that she apparently had a rough childhood of abuse. I was slated to marry her this summer against my better judgement because her behavior just got worse, trying to control and interrupt my income stream mainly. Twice in the relationship she discarded me, normal narc behavior of Idealization, degrade, discard, leaving me scratching my head. At least once she violently attacked and stabbed me. I went into work at the hospital and had colleagues dress the wound. All the while thinking that enough love and understanding would change this girl/young woman for the betterment of what I perceived to be mental health issues? Eventually I was forced to move her off the Estate and into an apartment for her own safety and mine. I never broke the engagement and paid for the apartment and the furnishings. She quickly recruited new supply and went NO CONTACT telling anybody that would listen that I was a raving Narcissist. To that point I was not even aware of what all this NBD was even about. I’ve always believed myself to be self aware yet was astounded at the level of Anxiety and depression that set in. My curiosity is, because her behavior mirrors the character traits enumerated by HG Tudor, is she practiced at this because of her childhood abuse, or is this something that she’s developed as a social mechanism searching out those of us that see ourselves as victim to this behavior? I suppose that I thought that I was going to save her from herself?
Welcome to HG Tudor University Larry. We’re all in the Accelerated Reading Programme For Highly Intelligent But Trampled On Empaths. Pull up a chair! You’re amongst friends.
NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is a maladaption to attachment trauma at a critical stage of childhood development. It is a response to trauma that results in a drive to fulfil narcissistic supply which shapes a set of behaviours – almost identical in all narcissists. The behaviours become apparent in late adolescence/early adulthood and slowly become worse as the narcissist ages. It is pointless trying to use ‘reason’ to understand narcissist behaviour. We can’t understand crazy from a sane perspective. Educate and inform yourself. The remedy for narcissism is to enact a policy of absolutely no contact. They were damaged beyond repair before love could have made a difference and they cannot improve. It is also a neurological mis-wiring that is out of the reach of neuroplasticity. Finally, despite being worthy of deep compassion and empathy, narcissists are absolute destroyers – no exceptions.
You can find out for yourself through experience, but you will pay a high price. All the best.
Guys, for those who still think narcs can change, check out neuroscience and the latest research. Narcs cannot change because their brains (the organ itself) are different (size of the amygdala for example and many other parts of the brain). You cannot simply decide to change your brain even if you decided you wanted to change, which, as you know, is not something likely to happen anyway.
Insatiable Learner
I agree. HG cannot change his narcissism and we can’t change our “empathism”. We are hard wired for love, empathy, understanding, compassion, etc.
Good luck trying to undo all that wiring.
why are so many interested in healing the narc , HG is constantly pointing us in the opposite direction ,to escape and heal ourselves .I want to feel free and whole again I couldn’t care less about healing the narc.
Just an observation.
Kiki
Hardcore empaths with very few narc traits and addiction to hope and redemption is my guess. I also think there are some who would not admit it (even to themselves), but if HG could change there is hope that theirs could too, and they could maintain the relationship or return to it. Still others would rather focus on it than themselves because they believe the narc should take all the responsibility of the entanglement and eradicating the world of narcs is the only solution.
NarcAngel
Good reasoning. I think that’s pretty accurate.
Also we see that he hurts others and causes so much collateral damage, and we want him to find a successful way to live without causing others so much pain. But that’s probably a subset of your first reason.
“Hard core empath”. I like that!
Hey NA I like you’re insight and I agree because I’ve thought about a world without narcs but I like narcs. I am here to learn how to protect myself when I must engage w a narc. HG’s work is a gift and I am most grateful most days. I do have my moments when I am still piecing all this vast amount of information when I say why???
The narcs are everywhere–the Judge at my proceedings, the police officer in the corner of the room, the lawyers, some women where i work, my boss, some family members, the man who smiled at me in the grocery store, etc.
I am a magnet. I have spent most of my adult life taking care of and guiding others. I’m starting to practice the knowledge HG so ingeniously provides. I would read HG’s books long after it’s been a long time since I have been with my ex. His books read like vampire novels to me! Scary!
Kiki, I see him suffering horribly. Those in excruciating pain will do anything to relieve the pain. Much like a heroin addict. They cannot, through their haze of emotional pain, give any thought to how they are hurting others, only that they need to relieve or at least temporarily diminish this relentless never-ending torture.They are tormented.To them, supply =survival. If you’ve ever been in excruciating pain, you know you’ll do anything to make it stop. As an empath, it distresses me greatly to see any creature, whether human or animal, suffering and I have an innate need to help assuage it.
I believe that in wishing them to change or to heal lies the hope of healing ourselves. When we look at them we see our own loneliness and we feel our own wounds.
Its a very strong drive, and when I finally realized that this was what was happening to me, things became much easier.
To wish them to heal is like self-compassion turned outwards. Its a beautiful thing, in its essence. The only thing is – don’t forget to focus your compassion inwards too <3
Thank you for this–so true.
I agree Kiki and NA.
Despite being an Empath and an empathetic person.
Firstly, because he knows himself.
Secondly, because he is what he is.
I do not believe in changing those who do wish not to change.
I agree, we can only change ourselves.
To focus, on another is to avoid looking at ourselves.
Both parties are at fault in relationships to some extent.
I am not referring to horrific abuse.
If we are wholly honest.
For me, my fault was ignoring red flags.
Trusting and loving too much and
not leaving sooner.
I certainly do not wish to eradicate narcissists.
I prefer to understand them to avoid harm to myself and others.
There is nothing wrong with hope.
Unless, it is misplaced.
Where one could be focusing on those who want to change and can.
Great observations.
I would say I am very empathetic , but for me personally I cannot hold any shred of hope that ex narc will show remorse. ,empathy towards me and acknowledge my hurt.Therefore I know the only way out is to focus on my own healing not him.
Believe me I tried , so many times ,I was given glimpses of hope and toyed with only to be brutally discarded .
It really tore me apart for months and months.This blog has really enlighten me.
I became depressed and withdrawn and blamed myself ,my looks , my personality ,everything.
The hope was like a knife I was cutting myself up with.
Facing the hard reality that it is hopeless is horrid ,for a long time I didn’t want to face that ,but eventually I had to or continue along with torture that would destroy even the strongest souls.
I’m finally seeing light that there will never be change , he will never turn into he person i thought he was again ,if I try I will be ground own and emotionally tortured , I’m finally too tired of it.
Good for you Kiki.
For making a healthy realization for your self.
Exactly, no amount of wishing or hoping
Can make someone something they can never be.
Changing how we think, is our biggest coup,
Next to GOSO.
Kiki,I believe as Empath’s, and victims of the Narc, I got caught up in the love bombing and felt that I owed it to Her to help her heal and deal with what I perceived as mental illness handed down from her Mother and Father. It is true that at times I felt her behavior to be evil in nature Yet she was also very angry young woman. To this day I still feel empathy for her messed up mind, though she and her Mother still try and convince me that she’s this beautiful vibrant young woman with no problems other than the toxic relationship that I have been sharing with her. Apparently all my fault? BTW, I virtually live at the hospital, and am literally never home to engage in the crazy making process that she brought to the estate.
I would be interested in helping my child manage NPD, for example. I wouldn’t necessarily expect to be able to heal them as such, but I would do what I could to help them have as good of a life as they can with minimal casualties.
My oldest is high in narcissistic traits. I do my best to help him gain healthy self-esteem and develop his emotional empathy (which he does possess), I also do my best to set a moral compass for him to fall back on where his empathy may be lacking. So far so good, but he does have the potential for psychopathology. He is remarkably intelligent and can be quite manipulative. I’m doing my best to redirect him into developing resourcefulness and negotiation skills.
I’m not even remotely interested in ‘saving’ or ‘changing’ a grown adult that I am not responsible for, though.
MS, do you have any thoughts on what may have caused the development of his narcissistic traits?
I wonder is there a scenario where change is possible? Has anyone seen or heard of this happening after no contact and after all family and friends have disconnected as well?
I am not looking for an apology or hoping for the narcissist to return to me, but simply hoping they might eventually live a healthy life and repair the relationships in their family.
No, we cannot change.
HG
“No we cannot change.”
Nothing in life is so definite. While you cannot stop being a narcissist and inject empathy into your brain, you obviously can learn. You can increase your cognitive empathy for others and consciously choose to be less destructive to others in your quest for fuel.
You can consciously change your behaviors. That is how any of us change, by changing our behaviors. Our core beliefs and values may remain the same, yet each of us is constantly changing – you included.
Windstorm
But dont we normally change our behaviours due to some moral issue or desire to adapt and fit in? Out of consideration for others? They dont have those needs, so I can see (but not subscribe to) why they feel that we should change ours to adapt to theirs. Maybe he has changed his behaviours and is no longer as violent or manipulating as he once was, or would have been had he not had this experience, or perhaps he’s worse. Change goes both ways but as empaths we always assume change for the better. Perhaps the Dolus Malus series will clear up a few things about where he is in that regard.
NarcAngel
People change their behaviors for all kind of reasons, not just moral. Maybe because they’ll live longer, maybe because they think it will be fun, maybe out of curiosity. I went an entire year once with no a/c (it gets over a 100F here) and practically no heat (only enough in the bathroom to keep the pipes from freezing) just to see if I could do it. Goodness knows that didn’t adapt or fit into anything! I just wanted to see if it was possible.
And like you said, maybe he has already changed his behaviors to be less violent or manipulating (or less hurtfully manipulating). I think that is very possible. I was just challenging him on that blanket statement he made that he cannot change.
Life IS change. We all of us constantly are changing and we all of us – especially the more intelligent of us – can make conscious changes in our behavior. These conscious changes then subtly change who we are. HG may feel no motivation to change, but that does not mean that he is not changing everyday.
Windstorm
Ah. I see now that you were referring to growing and evolving as we all continue to do and not with regard to just bad behaviour.
Yes, Windstorm,
HG can modify his behaviour, but is only a manipulation to suit his needs.
More mirroring.
Not like, if we see how our behaviour hurts another.
We strive to modify it to not cause more harm.
By watching the words we use.
By not engaging in destructive behaviours.
By validating their feelings.
We do this to be considerate and thoughtful.
If HG did this, it would be to get what he wants, FUEL.
Ours is born from genuine intent.
HG is born from maintaining his facade.
That is not a criticism of him.
We change because we want to.
HG modifies his behaviour because he has to.
Analise
HG is a very intelligent individual. He does have control over his actions. He is capable of choosing less destructive methods of obtaining fuel and still meet his fuel needs. To change in that way was what I meant.
He made a blanket statement that he can not change. I believe that to be false. While there are many things about himself that cannot be changed, all humans can make changes in themselves by altering their behaviors.
I do not disagree with anything you have said, Windstorm.
I misunderstood your point regarding change.
I agree HG is intelligent and capable.
I wish he did not need to hurt others to maintain what he is.
It is opposed to who I am and how I think.
But, my wish is fruitless for HG.
Hi Windstorm,
I guess the ‘positivity’ and ‘desire to ‘heal and fix’ sins do not apply to me.
When we say we hope HG (and other narcissists) can change, aren’t we deluding ourselves? And/or just being stubborn?
We must accept that some things in life just WILL NOT change.
Yes, it would be wonderful if narcissism could be eradicated, if the narcissist could stop seeing and treating people like objects/means to an end, while finally finding peace and happiness. And we could all live happily ever after.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to work that way.
A lot of research has been done on the subject.
According to such research, narcissism (just like psychopathy, for example) is SO deeply ingrained within the person that it can NOT be altered in any significant way.
Unless steps are taken at a very early age.
Also, the behaviour of the narcissist can be seen as maladaptive by us, or society in general, but is perfectly adaptive for the narcissist: it works, it delivers results, it allows him (or her) to get what he (or she) wants and needs.
Narcissists sleep at night. They go through life without a care. Some even excel and succeed.
Why would they WANT to change that?
Since discovering the blog, I have been trying to keep an open mind (not a hopeful one) and accept unpleasant truths.
Deluding myself will not do me (or anyone) any good.
I realise the ‘stubbornness’ of the empath comes from a good place, from a good heart.
I do.
And I am sorry for sounding harsh or negative, but I find the ‘healing fixation’ very frustrating.
HG says in one of his books (“From the Mouth of a Narcissist”):
“SOCIETY FAILED IN ITS OBLIGATION TO EMOTIONALLY TRAIN. I AM THE PRODUCT”.
It gave me so much to think about.
It’s a matter of emotionally TRAINING individuals at the appropriate point in time.
You can’t just take an adult and ‘rewire’ them.
You can’t persuade (or love) someone into sanity. You just can’t.
Once the narcissist has been created, the only thing you can do is damage control.
EmP
Obviously my comment to HG was highly misunderstood. Never have I believed that narcissism can be cured. I do not believe that HG can stop being a narcissist and I have no desire to interfere in other people’s lives. I absolutely can not stand it when people want to change me and would never try to change someone else. No one can change another person.
My point was meant to be that HG’s blanket statement that he cannot change was incorrect. We all of us are changing everyday, whether we want to or not. HG is intelligent and can make conscious choices in his behavior. He chooses how to get his fuel. He could choose ways that are less destructive to others, if he wished to. How he changes is of course his choice, but he can and does change.
Hi Windstorm,
I understand and of course I agree with you when you say HG is an intelligent man and could modify his behaviour but, being a narcissist, and most of all being very effective at was he does, why would he want to?
EmP
Being able to change and wanting to change are two separate issues. If we are moving on to him “wanting to change” I would think it would require him seeing that it would benefit him. I can see how not leaving a trail of collateral damage in his wake could be a benefit. Only he can make that determination, though.
Hi Windstorm,
Yes they are. But sometimes change would come at too high a cost (from the person’s perspective).
It would be like losing one’s self (even if ‘artificial’) and the benefits (once again, from the person’s perspective) that go with it.
HG always wins. Narcissism works perfectly for him.
To quote a chess grandmaster: “With each success the ability to change is reduced. Like being dipped in bronze, each victory adds another coat”.
Maybe if the narcissist suffered from global amnesia…they could do it all over again, be re-trained, start afresh.
I don’t see any other possibility.
EmP makes some very good points. Yes — why would the narc WANT to change? The world is full of fuel, and the narc knows how to get it. The 5 truths discussed in this article are the basic things we have to truly understand and accept — not just intellectually, but emotionally — in order to have any hope of recovery from narcissistic abuse.
My understanding of HG’s statement is that NPD is a permanent condition.
Adonis, I am not afraid of you. I’ve ‘owned my shit. Your words, not mine. I took you’re advice and it resulted in me being fueled. I am F.R.E.E.
HG,
It seems that there are several people that comment who really get mad or frustrated at you for not choosing or trying to change.
From reading up on narcissism, it seems that the brains of narcissists are different from normal people. The part of the brain that thinks about themselves has become extremely enlarged, and the part that is responsible for feeling empathy is very small.
It seems that there could be some hope, though, because the brain can change…for instance, internet use changes how a brain is wired, memorizing poetry changes the brain, compensating for a brain injury changes the brain, etc.
So it seems if you do behave differently, the brain can change to accommodate that behavior.
Of course the narcissist (either aware or not of his own identity) never changes his behavior unless forced.
But I wonder if by helping people, your brain isn’t changed in some small way even though it isn’t by choice and you may not have pure motives for doing so?
Maybe by having such a good understanding of how the victim’s react and feel, your own brain grows just a little in the empathy area?
I’ve been wondering if you have noticed any changes at all?
You cannot inject empathy.
No but doctors can work with someone to re train the brain to slow down the process of being triggered and reacting for instant reward (in this case jumping to get negative fuel and being so hurtful maliciously without slowing down to logically weigh in on the other person’s perspective). There are test drugs for drug addicts and alcoholics to slow down the impulse / reward inclination if being triggered for a hit. No it may not make you a new, improved empathetic person, but can reduce paranoia and chaos of thinking you are under attack when you are not.
It’s controlling that dopamine rush that gives a high. A study I read from Psychology Today in February 2015 said that misogynists get a subconscious hit of dopamine in their brain whenever they hurt someone. That is why if they have gone a while without conflict, their brains are actually craving that hit. Their trigger is their subconscious hatred of women. So the cycle of hurting, then making up to perpetuate the cycle keeps going. I just think with more studies that chemically there is a way to reduce it and retrain behaviors with someone who is willing to try it and see the benefit of it.
You wrote that you cannot change. You wrote empathy cannot be injected. You are the highly aware of your behaviours writer. Intelligent and productive man. You can re-wire your brain. As a analytical person when you read about neuroplasticity you will find it proven so many times, experientially and scientifically. You may find it interesting that actually brain is the most plastic when flooded with oxytocin. That’s how I help people with emotional problems. I know a way to induce high states of pleasure (it doesn’t matter if its based on feeling of joy safety love or sexual pleasure, they are all positive feeling states and as long as you can access any one of them its good enough to flood the brain and make it plastic). Then its a matter of finding the source emotion that is problematic and vent it from the initial time it happened and flood the brain again with positive stuff). Emotion by emotion, layer upon layer, regardless who made you feel that way. And when you realise your behaviours are based on emotions that control you, as you wrote yourself many times over that ‘with rage you must assert control over the person who wounded you’, you naturally realise you in fact are not in control over yourself in that moment, logically you simply understand that the only way to truly be in control is to learn to control your emotions. And to learn to control your emotions it helps to address the initial causes and vent them like I described above to reduce the amount of potential opportunities for others to wound you because you now understand that to leave yourself unchecked is only opening yourself up for losing control being driven by own emotions in the future. And as you proclaimed so many times you have to be in control, you cannot leave yourself open to being disappointed and wounded again by your sources like so many times in the past, as that would be highly stupid and that’s not you, as highly intelligent being you also become aware that your behaviours that you described to us extensively are simply to protect you from hurt of wounding and that deserves acknowledging and thanking because it kept you alive in unbearable situations at some earlier stage in your life, now you automatically find ways and techniques and teachings to safely vent powerful emotions with the assistance of experienced and qualified persons and watch how you gain real control over your life by controling yourself. After all as the ominipotent, great, and highly intelligent, you want the control, don’t you?
HG Would a narassist ever try to change themselves for religious reasons if they thought it would bring them happiness and peace? Would they sell old belongings, change phone number and stay off all social media , and disengage from old sources and friends? Or would these things only happen if a narassist went into depression or something?
Mia, He hasn’t “changed” religion or become religious. He is very much in the golden period with a new source. My guess is that she is religious, so he is too. He’s changed his number et al to keep you from interfering with his wooing of her. He can’t have you hanging around polluting his golden period like “a bad smell”. He wants nothing to do with you right now. In fact, you are effectively dead. He has deleted you.
(K may find the article and send you a link. HG explains it much better than I did.)
Spend this time reading the emotional battle articles. There are three. I HIGHLY suggest the book ‘Exorcism’. Hang around the blog reading and commenting. Add in an audio consult or two with HG and you will be well on your way to freedom.
MB
MB
I think this is the article you are referring to.
https://narcsite.com/2018/01/10/has-the-narcissist-disengaged-or-is-it-a-silent-treatment-2/
We don’t need your fuel anymore and we do not want you hanging around like a bad smell and posing a risk to our harmonious new relationship with the new primary source.
Oh Mia….many Narcissist are hiding behind religion AND very high up, so they can get Fuel. Kind of like the Priest that is a Pedophilia, to look for children to GROOM (I hate this word soooo much) to groom their victims. Win their trust. Brain wash them. Then a day is waiting to Victimize them….sooo sooooo sad. Narcissist will change religion to bend to them and manipulate their followers. IN order for what you are saying for them to do WOULD have to be 24/7 treatment and isolation from any means of getting fuel. What I am trying to figure out, DID evil enter their body and is using them, OR are they born this way? Or maybe both. They were born missing a Humanity switch, so evil found them and entered them. So now they are the vampires of the Earth. To teach us once again evil is real. AND we need to be warriors against it. Amen