This Time It Will Work


When you first come into my sights, when you appear between those crosshairs and I sense your empathic qualities, your adherence to the traits which make you so attractive to me, I am filled with optimism. I have spoken on many occasions about my need to extract fuel on a daily basis. This ritual necessitates the acquisition of someone who will be my primary source and then a whole host of secondary and tertiary sources who are drawn from friends, family, strangers, colleagues and so forth. It is a ceaseless task but one which I am built for, one I have been designed for and one which I will always apply myself to. I prefer to conserve my energies and that is why I live in hope that this time the person that I have targeted will be the one who will not let me down. On this occasion I have found the person who will be my primary source so that I never have to embark on the devaluation of this person because they have failed in their obligation to provide me with fuel. Many people may regard me as prejudicial person and it is true that I pre-judge people, but only ever do so on the basis of satisfactory evidence. I look for the necessary traits in how you interact with others, the things that you say and what you do. I watch carefully before I make my move. When I see the very things which I cherish and require for the purposes of gathering fuel, I experience an elation. There is excitement and anticipation. Mostly it is because of the fuel which I hope to gather from you, that delicious and golden fuel which super charges me, invigorates me and provides me with the power to sail through life charming and attracting. However, my excitement is not all based on the anticipation of tasting your fuel. No, a significant part of my anticipation is borne out of the fact that you might just be the one. You could be that person who does not let me down. You could be the one who finally provides me with such sweet fuel that I never have to go elsewhere for a primary supply. I cannot give up my supplementary sources as they are a reserve and a contingency for when I am not able to draw my main fuel from you as my primary source. This is not because I have cast you aside or because you have committed that treacherous act of escaping me and instigating no contact. Not at all. The reserve is required because owing to various factors I cannot be by your side every hour of day or in some form of contact with you to this extent. This means that much as I delight in your sweet, sweet fuel, I am forced to obtain it elsewhere and this is from those supplementary sources. It is you however that I still look to for the best fuel. You who I look to in order to provide me with the most fuel and to do so with comforting regularity. I want this fuel from just one primary source. You seem to think that I revel in the abuse that I dole out when I devalue my primary source victim, but I do not. It may look that way, a side effect of the power that courses through me as I drink deep of that negative fuel but in truth I would much rather never have to go down that route. I would prefer that you continue to pump out that positive fuel to such an extent that it always remains satisfactory for me. I want you to be the one that is always there, reliable, dependable and magnificent in the production of your fuel. You would benefit too. There would be no awful abuse as devaluation takes place. There would be no mystifying discard (mystifying to you at least – it makes perfect sense to me) and then I would not even have to go to the trouble of applying various types of hoover in order to bring you back to me. Imagine avoiding all of that and remaining in the glorious golden period of seduction the whole time? I know how much you love that. I have seen it in your eyes, I have seen you speak of it and of course I have seen how hard you have fought at times to recover it. You adore and worship the golden period and you can have that. You can have that all the time. All I ask of you is to keep providing me with that fuel at the potency and level that is appropriate and demanded. It cannot be too difficult for you can it? You once did it. You provided it brilliantly but then you let me down by not providing the quality I was used to. You diminished the frequency and became unreliable, thus hurting me and that could not be countenanced. You had to be hurt in return. There was no hope for any other way. Imagine being able to avoid bringing all that horror on yourself as you keep doing what is necessary. You keep giving me my fuel at the prescribed level and in return you get to stay in the golden period forever. This is what I hope for too and you think that I am selfish. Not at all. We both win. You have the golden period and I have the golden fuel. This is what I hope for each time a new target presents itself and I begin my work to consider moving to the seduction of this target. I am filled with hope, I am filled with optimism that this time, just for once, you will keep on doing what I need and you will not let me down. No matter how many times this has happened in the past. No matter how many times I have been betrayed and hurt by the treasonable conduct of those who said, so many times, that they loved me and they always would, I have always continued to believe in the power and capacity that the next target may just be the one. I am not a bad person for believing in that way am I? I just want to find the right one for me. Just like you do.

You want to find the person that you will love for the rest of your life, I want to find the person whose fuel I will love for the rest of my life. Surely you can understand and appreciate that? Surely you must accept that such a notion is noble? Surely you understand why I always think that you might be the one. This time.



  1. MB, Windstorm & nikitalondon, love your discussion about the news. I can’t watch it either. It’s like a hit and run, and you don’t get follow up for justice purposes. There’s no closure. I can’t bear cruelty, and I don’t want to see images of it.
    Do you find you can’t watch crime shows either? I have nightmares of torture. We are sensitive, and need to protect our minds.

    1. Caroline
      I don’t watch crime shows or any reality programs because there is definitely no entertainment for me to watch people hurting one another. I do like some mysteries, if the emphasis is on the deduction and not the crime.

      1. Windstorm
        Me too. I think that’s why I prefer literary dramas like Poldark. Anything with beautiful, accurate-to-the-period costuming is a favourite.

        1. Caroline
          I love period pieces and authentic costumes, too. Poldarks too dark for me, though. I run away from anything called a “drama.” 😄

    2. Caroline,

      Spoken like a true Empath…but not so true, Caroline in Blue?

      Yeah, empaths can feel — and read — from such a sensitive level that we can feel the false.

      You’re false.

      I don’t bat an eyelash saying that… knowing what this really is.

  2. Hello HG, I am reading Manipulated, Exercism, No Contact and Escape. I am an empath and a “love concurs all” type. I actually enjoy the obsessive behavior and control and over the top contact of my narc. I have craved that attention most of my life. It is somewhat of a fantasy. I need the constant reassurance.

    I thought I might be the one for him. I thought I could love him enough to make him see that I would stay. That we needed each other, that we fit. I’m sure this is a very textbook empath/narc connection. Does anyone else crave the control and dominance? I only like it in the context that I am the only one he feels this way about in a romantic sense. I don’t mind alternate people who make him feel special. I encourage him to have close relationships with friends and family. I just want to be the only romantic link. The only sexual partner. I thought he found I am the one and that he would do anything he can to keep me (within reason) because he loves me so much.

    …and flash to reality. I recently had a friend pass away. I called my narc (we are now on again) and he said all the right things, I am sorry, I will pray for her and her family, I wish I could hold you, I love you. I later texted him. I texted that I was sad and going to take a bath (he likes knowing what I am doing). I wrote later I was going for a run to focus my thoughts on something else. He just kept saying “I am sorry” over and over to anything I said. I told him it is not his fault, it is just a sadness and I will get through it. I always wonder if he feels empathy. I called him again. He also knew my friend, but not very well. I asked him what he would do if he was with me because I needed to visualize some comfort (he could not be physically with me at the time). He said he would “whoop my a**”. I thought maybe he was trying to distract me or thought that was humorous, so I said no really, what would you do. He told me he had already said he was sorry and he couldn’t do anything more to help. I said there was a lot to say that would help. He said he tried to offer me advice before about employees (this friend worked with me) and he said I had shut him down, so he would just shut up and not say anything. That seemed almost completely unrelated to me, the only connection to past arguments was the “co-worker” element. He then got angry and said he wasn’t going to say anything because I would get upset and cry. I told him if he said nice things I wouldn’t get upset. I told him I just wanted to talk to distact myself from the pain. I was watching TV trying to distract my thoughts of her. He suggested I watch porn to distract myself (how ridiculously inappropriate to the situation). He said he would put me in a box in the grave so I could be with her. He told me to go f*** myself. I said I can’t believe you would say that to me when I lost my friend. I didn’t understand why he was mad. He said it was my fault he said mean things. He had “told me” he would say things and I would cry. He again told me to go f*** myself, said goodbye and hung up. I need to be done.

    So I ordered your books. I told him to never call or text again. Why was he so loving one minute and if pressed or I am needy for love, he is so over the top cruel? I know he didn’t feel like talking and was getting aggitated having to talk to me, but why? Is it so hard to say I would hold you, bring you water, rub your back, sit with you until you wanted me to go? I told him I needed comfort and he became cruel. Why?

    He has apologized in the past for getting angry and says he doesn’t mean it. He usually tells me when he is getting irritated, but he acts like I never get aggitated. I get irritated frequently. But I consider the other person’s feelings and my own (introspection). I then try to tactfully navigate the situation as to not demolish the other person’s feelings and come to a mutually beneficial resolution. Win win.

    I feel like if I call him repeatedly and tell him he has hurt me and we need to learn how to discuss things, we usually end up being somewhat ok. But I don’t like trying to contact him and be tactful every time he hurts me. I appreciate that he says he doesn’t want to hurt me and he does try to work on things, but how can I be with someone who says such awful things. I try to picture saying what he said to me to someone who is grieving…I just can’t imagine being that utterly cruel and uncompassionate.

    Any thoughts of this behavior. His and mine. I have initiated no contact, but it is going to be hard. I feel like he is always expecting me to leave. Does he mean the meanthings he says? Can narcs be taught to put themselves in the place of others and how they feel? Can he love?

    1. Thank you for reading my work, the detail necessary in answering your comment means you should organise a consultation so I can convey the maximum information to you. I would point out that he cannot love however. Nor can we be taught emotional empathy, it cannot be injected.

      1. HG, I pray for you that you will have the energy and stamina to power through all these consults. May the force be with you.

  3. HG, I understand that expressing one’s needs in a narcissistic/empath relationship is showing weakness, cedes control and therefore should not be done. That goes for both parties in the relationship.
    However, some think that IN A “NORMAL” relationship, expressing one’s needs and helping the partner to meet their unmet needs is the only way to make a relationship and love last. The theory is that one falls in love with a person that has both the positive and negative traits of our childhood main care takers. Therefore, most relationships are doomed to fail because sooner or later our unmet needs will emerge and they won’t be met either by ourselves, because we never learned to meet them, or by our partner because they have the same inability to do it as our childhood care takers had. The frustration then grows and we will fall out of love. The solution is to identify such needs, express them to the partner, listen to the partner and try to meet such needs. This means both parties get to grow together helping each other become more whole and independent.
    Now, I know this is not possible in a relationship with a narcissist and I know doing the above is much more easily said than done. Identifying and expressing one’s own needs is not always easy and developing those parts of us which we did not develop and are causing our partners frustration may be a major challenge. But the theory does make sense to me.

    1. Lou
      I know this is a different type of love, but I think a good example of what you’re saying is our love for our children and grandchildren. If our son or daughter tells us about a need they have, we don’t see this as a weakness. We automatically begin to think about how we can help them.

      When we really love someone, their well-being is important to us. We respond automatically to their needs. This doesn’t mean we step in to fix their problems for them, because unless if they are small children it’s probably in their best interest to solve it themselves. But we will help them brainstorm solutions and help in little ways, because their success is important to us.

      I think the problem in relationships comes from partners trying to hide their problems or pretend they don’t exist instead of sharing them. This shuts down communication and destroys trust and that’s essential for any strong relationship.

      1. Windstorm, yes, part of this approach is to learn how to parent ourselves and help our significant other do it and even parent him or her in an adult constructive way. The goal is to grow emotionally and become more whole and interdependent. Open and honest Communication, as you pointed out, is paramount.

      2. Windstorm, you described a healthy relationship so well — “we respond automatically to their needs”, & “their success is important to us”.

        The constant feeling of being on guard with an abuser, and being made to feel like an opponent is wearing and draining after a very short time. It’s unsustainable.

        1. Thank you for describing a healthy relationship. Been working on this. Thanks for holding up a mirror on this.

        2. I had to re read this because it woke me up and made me realize a few ways I devalued myself, put myself on the shelf. And how I consider myself and what I want as weaknesses. It doesn’t hurt as much as it makes me angry. Then again, it’s been said when the student is ready, the master will show up.

  4. We are good, we flawed human beings, of behaving in ways that become self-fulfilling prophesies, and then we hold the results up to others to justify our continued acting in dysfunctional or destructive ways.
    For example, if I don’t believe I am lovable, and then I do things that are obnoxious and push people away, then I say. to myself “see, I knew they’d leave me, this proves I’m not lovable”.
    I have a confirmatory bias, or use abductive reasoning.
    This keeps me trapped in a box of my own making, and further away from getting my needs met.

      1. Hi Tammy,
        It was a pivotal moment in my life when I learned that I can choose to stop following a train of thought and choose another. Having any power and positive choice when you’ve been groomed to be a doormat is like being able to breathe for the first time.
        It’s been my main weapon dealing with waves of fear that come (not the good internal indicator that something isn’t right, but the overwhelming tormenting variety). Fear is really such an ugly evil bully. After spending time @HGU, I came to the realisation that fear is an abuser, and future fakes us.

        1. Caroline ! So true.
          Fear is awful. And I have severe flashbacks that are so bad that I take more pills than prescribed. Like right now I’m torturing myself because I wonder if I can make rent.
          I can’t check my balance until tomorrow. My landlord called me a hot mess.
          Well , ok .
          I have some serious emotional bullshit to clean up in my life.I think I do this kind of stuff because I wasn’t taught Jack shit.
          I seriously need to work on a budget.

        2. Caroline, Thanks! I just went shopping and thought I saw him in line. I stood there mesmerized at the idea it could be him. Coming to rescue me. Coming to save me.
          Of course it wasn’t him because he doesn’t love me, no will he ever. I snapped the rubber band on my wrist and snapped it a few times more, reminding me he only brings pain. Its a good reminder i don’t like pain.

  5. ” No matter how many times I have been betrayed and hurt by the treasonable conduct of those who said, so many times, that they loved me and they always would, I have always continued to believe in the power and capacity that the next target may just be the one.”

    HG, you feel the pain of betrayal, and so behave in a way that guarantees you will be betrayed, based on your perception of your victim’s faltering love? Self-fulfilling prophecies….

    I once told my narc that I didn’t believe everyone had a Twin Flame, something he believed in with all his defective heart. He ranted, raved, threatened leaving and suicide. All because he couldn’t bear to abandon the notion of “perfect love”. Again, narcs and empaths, two sides of the same coin – looking for perfect love. The difference as I see it is that the narc anticipates and plans for its failure in advance and the empath doesn’t.

  6. I disagree. Expressed needs will not be held against when a person is honesty and is together with the other one without an agenda. It was my case. My ex BF told me in fact everything. I need a woman that doesnt fight and compete against me but rather a submissive person. I am an asshole and this is how I am. etc etc even concerning sex , which I am not going to describe here. The person that I used to be, thought that giving all these needs was true love, which is correct and in theory such a relationship could work. The problem is that although all is said and being fulfilled. THE GAMES NEVER STOP!!!! ITS JUST A TAKE MORE AND MORE AND GIVE NOTHING!!! The one who mentioned about bring me tee while I finish having sex, nailed it down. Thats how its going to be.
    I have another friend living in Berlin whose BF also told her all he wanted, and this one was even open about that he needed to be with several women but she dedicated only to him… I dont know the story really well but of course this relationship is finished. So in any case it doesnt work because the pain of having the relationship is bigger than the pleasure of giving and making happy only one person.
    I hope it helps clarify.

    1. Nikitalondon
      You summed it up very well – the pain of the relationship is greater than any of the benefits. No matter how great the great parts are, the pain is greater.

  7. Its the age old attempt to acquire what we can’t have. We’ve been taught a lot of nonsense, putting ourselves in outright danger, even death. I wonder if an empath can really change, since we too see nothing wrong with our behaviors like the narcissist that sees nothing wrong with theirs? I think from a normal functional relationship both empath and narcissists feed off each other, where a normal would say it’s not working and leave such craziness.

    1. @Tammy – yes. Age old attempt to fix them so they can finally love us. But empaths CAN change. There’s a “switch” you develop to shut their emotions out and your emotions off, especially when you can finally discern that the person you’re dealing with isn’t genuine, suspending your emotional thinking, decency, sense of obligation, wanting to help/rescue, etc. and leaning hard into cold logic. It’s been called “the Holy Grail of Empaths”. I don’t know about that, but either I have more narcissistic traits than some, or I have found the Holy Grail, or I’m just some variety of asshole. What I think happens is that I just have “ENOUGH” of the abuse and somewhere, deeper than self-destructive tendencies, there’s an impulse to self-preservation. I even tell people, “If I ever look at you and say, ‘You know what? I don’t care,’ that’s the end for you.” The trick is putting the brakes on bad behavior SOONER because those empathic traits are hard-wired in. Also, I agree that empaths and narcs feed off each other. Two sides of the same coin and not so different after all. That doesn’t make it right, or healthy. That’s not what love does. But the things we are taught about “perfect love,” especially in the media, really equate to co-dependency, enmeshment, enabling and, ultimately, abuse.

  8. HG I hope I won’t be put in the corner for disagreeing with you. But expressing ones needs is not weakness. It takes great strength and courage to be authentic, vulnerable and real. I also think that being as such does not cede control. Being authentic takes more self control than lies manipulations, mind games etc. No one really ever has complete control of anything, they just percieve that they do, which when one thinks about it , means they really don’t have any control at all

    1. Star
      Thats part of the punishment. He tells you to go sit in the corner but its a round turret and you cant, so then you get punished with a silent treatment for not complying. Just use my stool. Its the one with the grooves in it.

      1. OMG OMG OMG!! I said that to Hg, MB

        I knew i liked you. *giggle

        As I recall, his response was – ‘my victims found it real enough’


        Anyway, excited I’m the only one who thinks this.

        Rock on! Seize the power! (Right, Hg?) *giggle

  9. “Expressing one’s needs is a weakness”- sums up the narcissist. They never have any needs as we normals understand them. Just fuel to cover up their self loathing.
    And our needs are seen as annoying, selfish and weak tonthe narcissist. This is the pathology- not a choice they make.

    1. I get confused at exactly what “needs” are considered weak to begin with?
      I need to sleep. If I’m in love and in a relationship I want to wake up next to you.
      I need to eat. I want to share meals with you and hear about your day.
      It starts off incorporating someone more and more in your daily life because as humans we have basic needs. I guess the human race is just collectively one big pathetic heap of neediness.
      Is it really that our “needs” become pathetic, or you just get bored with our “needs” because someone new comes along with different needs?
      This is in general and to HG. I could only reply on Kathleen’s comment..

  10. MB
    “They would never use it against you”
    You mean if they stay together and continue to be in love right? Yeah, sometimes that doesnt happen and all the secrets come to light (witness dirty divorces). He would have to trust that could be honoured and I dont see how someone could convince him (or anyone for that matter) of, or guarantee that. Thats empath magical thinking.

    1. NA the pessimist 😊

      I can’t speak for anybody but myself, but I wouldn’t use something so personal against him in public. It’s not my nature. If I promise somebody I won’t tell a secret, I don’t. It will go with me to my grave and it doesn’t take intimidation to bring that about. Now, if there was abuse, MB would be gone and leave him to it. But even then, his secrets are not mine to tell. I’m not a “smearer”.

      1. MB
        You say pessimist, I say realist………
        If people in love are able to articulate their needs, happily attend to those needs, never hurt each other for the world, and never use anything against one another, please explain adultery and divorce.

        1. You ARE a realist NA. In fact, you are the voice of reason here. (2nd to HG of course!) I don’t really believe you are a pessimist, I was teasing.

          Unlike you, I have been fortunate enough to have lived a fairly sheltered life. I’ve been married for 27 years to my childhood sweetheart. However, it has NOT been all unicorns and rainbows by a long shot. We’ve been through the sickness, the poorer, the children, separation, AND adultery. Everything but death, so far. I can say there’s been much more happiness than pain. We’ve made it through because we are family.

          My parents divorced. It was painful, but not ugly. (Nobody outside the family knew the details.).

          I just have a hard time accepting situations being hopeless to the point of not even trying. There’s a lot of happiness missed out on when one’s main purpose is to avoid pain and discomfort.

          I’ve seen what’s possible to overcome and make it to the other side even stronger. That that makes me more optimistic than most.

          This thread has made me quite depressed today. I would be happier if I could lower my expectations, so my heart wouldn’t hurt so much.

          1. MB
            I think you mean the voice of pessimism lol. I know you were just poking fun, but its true a lot of people think that and it doesnt bother me. Some people like direct-those are my people. As I’ve explained before-theres plenty of sugar here, and certainly enough to allow counter or disregard to anything I offer that isnt welcome. My caution sticker should read: If it doesnt apply then scroll on by. The Boss doles out the real medicine. Too bad “It tastes awful but it works” has been claimed by Buckleys cough medicine as it would be most apt here. If you want to be free consult with HG would be a good one too lol.

            Im sorry to hear that you had a bad day and hope this is a better one.

          2. Awww NA, I love your realism, your sense of humor, sarcasm and overall contribution here. I always read your comments even if I don’t have time to read everybody else’s at the time. I never scroll on by as I may miss an important nugget of wisdom or welcome humor. I meant no disrespect.

            Yesterday was tough due to NPD being talked about in such a hopeless fashion. It is what it is. It’s like a terminal cancer diagnosis that I don’t want to let myself believe. I’ve been in voluntary denial ever since discovering HGs work in February. I know what he says is true, but a lump forms in my throat and tears in my eyes and I push away that which hurts to accept. I tell myself I’ll think about it later and then later and then still later. I have lots I haven’t dealt with due to procrastination in this way and I know that.

            Just because they can’t love us, doesn’t mean our love for them isn’t real. I’m not one that believes love can conquer all and pouring sugar on a turd makes it edible. I’m more of the stick my head in the sand and not look because I’m helpless to change it anyway kind of person.

            Example: the tv was on and tuned into shark week one of the days I was on vacation. They were talking about poaching and the senseless killing of sharks going on in China or somewhere. They were showing the carcasses of sharks caught in nets, washed up on beaches, etc. (crying now typing this) They showed a commercial fishing boat and told how many sharks die as a side effect. I don’t even particularly like sharks, but I couldn’t bear to allow something so awful to enter my consciousness. This is the kind of thing that can ruin my whole day. (And on vacation no less!)

            What can I do about it? It’s in China! I don’t know anybody that fishes in China. I can’t bear to watch it or even hear it. I had to change the channel, that’s the only power I have to stop my pain and salvage my day.

            Sin of the empath: rejection of negativity. I must have a terminal case with a poor prognosis for recovery! Maybe I should become an activist for the gay blind sharks and I’ll feel better 😂

          3. Nikita, You have to change the channel too?

            I can barely watch the news. Somebody locked their child in a closet for 10 years and starved them to death? Somebody dragged their dog behind their truck until it died because it wet the carpet? A drunk driver killed a family in a minivan on their way back from vacation? Oh, wait, no, the mother lived so she can spend the rest of her life in emotional torture. What a happy ending that is. Why do I need to know these things? Me knowing won’t erase what happened. I still cry if I think of those two little boys strapped into their seats in the car and rolled into the lake to their deaths by their own mother because her new boyfriend didn’t want any children.

            It’s these types of things that made me believe I might be a contagion. I do believe I have contagion traits, but not strong enough to be labeled as such.

            As far as being here, reading all the atrocities doled out at the hands of abusers such as HG? If I could recognize and prevent just one situation of abuse, then it WOULD be worth it. There may be something I can do. There is power in this knowledge.

          4. MB
            Yes! That’s how I deal with all the sorrow in the news (plus turn the news off to start). I look around me to see how I can make my corner of the world a happier place – for me and the other inhabitants!

          5. Windstorm, it’s so nice to talk to people that get it. My whole life I’ve heard, “you’re just too sensitive.” I’ve always wondered what was wrong with me. Now I know…nothing! I’m just an empath.

          6. MB
            I’ve heard that, “you’re just too sensitive” all my life, too. I’ve always felt defective and crazy. Even other empaths tell me I’m too sensitive. But this is how God made me. I’ve been this way all my life. You have to work with what you have. I can no more shut off my empathy than a narc can turn his on. It is nice to be able to talk about it here, though, I agree.

          7. MB, Nikitalondon, Windstorm
            I have always felt this way too.
            Irl and when watching news, reading news, hearing pain of others.
            I have had to learn to distance myself.
            As it becomes emotionally overwhelming.
            Even with this blog and things I often read here.
            I wondered if you all
            Or other readers have to shut down
            and not read for awhile
            I can’t inagine it wouldn’t effect you the same here.
            Not so much the articles,
            as I can read them as informational,
            but the comments.
            Where detailed abuse is discussed,
            Or graphic descriptions.
            where rage is vented
            and readers attack each other.
            More often when there is extreme negativity.
            I have to leave.
            Sometimes I can’t even finish reading some comments.
            Let alone comment on them.
            Do, those who feel this outside of the blog,
            also feel it here as well?
            Or maybe, I am still too sensitive.
            Despite trying to modify it here.

          8. Im with you guys. I can’t watch the news. I hate it and I think most of it is a bunch of shit anyhow. It’s interesting that people have thought me stupid for not being into the news.
            What ever!!!!

          9. Hi MB. Yes I never watch TV anymore since now a long period, I cant bear those news. Sometimes in FB i see those news that I dont understand why people share and like u it hurts forever. I feel like a blow on the chest that cuts my breathing like when a ball hits you with force.. and I continue scroling down. Yes all the information here is valuable, integrated and complete. Very applied to real life. I wish it would have existef before. It would have spared me lots of pain. I hope it spare lots of pain to many other people and yes i gain knowledge in case one day I might be able to help someone and also because it’s interesting and i like HG writting style. Be well!

          10. Nikita, some of the stories in the FB feeds are the worst! All the more reason to drop that habit. I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one that has a physical reaction to these type things. I’m so glad I found out what was “wrong” with me. I’m just an empath, that’s all.

          11. Hi MB . I never took it as wrong.. for granted, it was since I was a kid. Heaviness on the chest, cut out of air, dizziness, sometimes even pain.. I could not bare it.. no there is nothing wrong with us.. its like it is and thats it. 😃😃 Enjoy Sunday!

    2. I’m not going to say Empath magical thinking… let’s just say Clarece’s magical thinking is I wish there was a way to find the correct way to communicate minus the overload of loving emotion (that pushes them away from the intimacy angle) and logically present what needs can be met or not met without wounding them.

    3. NarcAngel
      Too true. That is always a risk. The narc has to be strong enough and judge that it’s safe enough and that takes a lot of time and observation. My exhusband shares way more with me now than he ever would have 40 years ago. Partly he has grown and expanded in his thinking, but mainly I think it’s those nearly 45 years of interacting with me. He knows just how I will react to about everything by now, so there is no risk for him.

    4. NA, I didn’t think of it that way because I am the one that is always left. But then again he is a greater so if it would end, he would deny everything she says about him and make it look like it was actually her that was either a narcissist or mentally disturbed or whatever he decided to pull out of his tool box to use.

      1. Foolme1time
        True on his end, but how many empaths have you seen come through here that have done just as they do? Outed them to others, divulged their behaviours, wished them death…when once they never thought they would feel that way, and would have pledged on a stack of bibles that it would never come to that because they loved them and would never hurt them. Im not saying they are not entitled to feel that way, but if I were a narcissist (I heard that lol), I’m sure not going to take that chance up front because hell, it happens to normals much less someone coming in declaring theres an issue. I can just hear him now: Well what are you upset about? I TOLD you up front and you SAID you’d understand I have needs, so can you plese put down the gun and go and make Suzy and I here a cup of tea while we finish coitus and get dressed. Thanks love.

  11. You mention feeling hope and optimism. That’s the first time I’ve heard you say you’ve felt positive emotions.

    You crave the love your mother never gave you and for a while you get exactly what you need from your new partner. But then she morphs into your mother over time when the fuel is not as potent. You see the decline (I’d prefer to say being comfortable and content at evolving together with a quiet respectful love that’s not full on obsession as it can be in the beginning) as us wounding you.

    The fuel provided for you must be grandiose and cosmic at all times and faultless. She can have no weaknesses, no errors and must be utopian at all times coursing with unbridled obsession for you. There is no woman on this planet who is faultless. You are looking for something that doesn’t exist and you are highly intelligent to know this.

    You are looking for the roman goddess Venus. Did she ever exist?

  12. If this were true, then why the illusion, the setup, the pre-seduction investigation, then mirroring? All these things are planned and learned not only for the illusion of the golden period but the devaluation period that comes after the golden period. You already have it set up and ready, laid out, and as you learn more during the golden phase you make note of all that you will need during the devaluation phase. However, I can see you saying this to yourself on occasion during the golden period to help you do what must be absolutely disdainful to your kind, acting as though you are in love, acting in intimacy, how dreadful for you. Is this post meant to be a funny or are you serious? I`m not sure. This is the only way that I can understand you saying this, or at times thinking in this manner. And it is likely that you used her finances as yours not far into the relationship, the plan in motion. There’s never The One, never. She could be The One but your lack will never cease, the void, the lack you perceive, will never find the One, because the lack is not real, it is made completely of fear. Fear can kick all of our butts, narcissists and empaths. I`m not picking on anyone. Of course, there are those narcissists who have no idea why they do what they do, but they do premeditated actions.

  13. Why is it that you can not articulate your fuel needs to the PS? If she loves you, (her love is real remember) she will happily attend to your needs. All relationships are give and take. Is the fuel not potent enough unless it is manipulated out of a person?

    1. Most narcissists do not know what they are and that they need fuel, therefore they cannot articulate what you suggest. As for Greaters, why disclose a need to someone when they will use that against you.

      1. They would never use it against you. When you love someone, you wouldn’t hurt them for the world HG. Your well being is a priority for them.

      2. HG,
        “As for Greaters, why disclose a need to someone when they will use that against you.”

        Your statement denotes 100% certainty. Does it mean that the outcome has been that ( using that against you) every single time you have expressed your needs to someone who loves you? Have you ( really) ever expressed your needs to someone who loves you?

          1. HG,
            That is what your perspective leads to believe is true. The fact is that not all the time this will be the outcome. I have experienced it ( as an empath) and I have also seen this happening to others close to me.
            That is to say that :it is a fact that when you express your needs to someone who loves you it is not always used against you.
            This is not a feeling but is a fact that has happened.
            How do you lose control by expressing your needs?
            Why is it regarded as a weakness by you? Does it make you vulnerable? Vulnerability is not the same as weakness.

          2. Very telling about the way you were created HG.

            We all know what you are and still care for you a great deal. (At least most that express it.) Proof that you don’t have to change to be accepted.

          3. Huh? Knowing and understanding your needs, plus being able to articulate them is strong, helps form your boundaries, promotes honesty, decreases mind games, etc. It is the complete opposite to me of what you just said. But then it is a constant foreign concept to interact with people trying to have control and power over them.

          4. Clarence
            I agree with you. But we live in a different reality than he does. Sharing your needs is a weakness if you’re trying to dominate and control everyone around you. As long as that is his reality, it will remain a weakness.

          5. He’s just trying to dominate and control to hide from intimacy. Total weakness there.

          6. Windstorm,
            “Sharing your needs is a weakness if you’re trying to dominate and control everyone around you.”

            Well said. I completely agree with you.Therein lies the answer: control and domination( one of the core elements of NPD).
            They can’t really control their own feelings of not being good enough so they compensate this by trying to control others .

        1. HG
          SuperXena’s questions to you (has disclosing a need been used against you every time, and have you ever expressed your needs to anyone who loves you) lead me to a question (ok two) of my own:

          Do you believe anyone has ever loved you?

          I know you think they do in the golden period and the formal relationship, but in your mind, once they are devalued and you believe they have failed you or become the “traitorous bitch” you refer to, do you reason that they never really loved you at all?

          Then let’s extend that to family. Do you believe any family members love or have loved you?

          1. HG
            I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. Thank you.

      3. I rarely ever do this HG, I disagree with you on this one! Well at least the part about the Greater! I understand it would be tough explaining your needs to someone, but once you did it’s hard for me to believe she wouldn’t at least try.

        1. As long as that person wasn’t another narcissist. Since that is something you would know straight away we can rule that out. 😜

      4. HG.

        Not all people will use a need against you or anyone else.
        That is very broad brush HG.
        It is by your own mindset that you are judging anyone and everyone on.
        You know everyone is different, you are very good with psychology.
        However, with respect, it is not correct that all would use a need against someone. Far from it.

        If you are referring to specific individuals and this is a personal statement based on a specific situation that involves just you and another soul in particular. I will stand corrected.

      5. I do agree with this comment “Expressing one’s needs is weakness and cedes control and should not be done.” However, the negative of not expressing your needs may be more disadvantageous than ceding control in the long run.

      6. “They would never use it against you. When you love someone, you wouldn’t hurt them for the world HG. Your well being is a priority for them.”

        That’s rather idealistic. I loved the narc with all my heart (or so I thought) and now I would easily make him suffer.

        Feelings are a very fickle thing to bet on. They tend to change and evolve, to dissipate… Of the grand, total love I felt for the narc, there is none left now. I would easily hurt him, if I cared enough to do it. Remember that narcs normally pick people who have emotional issues and are thus unstable personalities… You don’t trust in someone who is so very willing to be duped by you – that would be stupid.

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