No Contact No Nos
No Contact is THE key to beating the narcissist.
Most people get it wrong. There are two reasons for this.
1. Not understanding the requirements of a Total No Contact Regime , and
2. The misleading effect of Emotional Thinking.
As part of the first element, the establishment and maintenance of a Total No Contact Regime means not only knowing what you MUST do for your Total No Contact Regime, but also what you MUST NOT do.
No Contact No Nos provides comprehensive information about the fundamental errors and primary risks which exist to your Total No Contact Regime so that you know what they are, how they threaten your regime and what you can do to make sure your Total No Contact Regime is properly implemented and also securely maintained.
This extremely useful and eye-opening guide tackles the weaknesses to your no contact regime in an effective and straightforward manner and is available for just US $ 5.
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PS: I never spoke with the other person about what I know he is because I wanted to hurt him because that was definitely not an objective, and also I thought I spoke in absolute confidence. Further, I was at an extremely desperate state of mind and was extremely affected by my new understanding of what was going on but of course to him it complicated his being if logic and understanding could be applied to the chaos and mess he was creating around him. If I knew all I know now I would never confide in only very very long-term and one or few friends, if at all, given that hell just comes loose if you expose a narc like him, regardless of your ‘motive’ for doing so and given my new understanding that there are really only a few people who will not tell others, if you confide in them.
How to implement no contact if you are dealing with a highly strategic narc who has schemed using a IGH first and then only to start cruel devaluation phase not long after and all the time made use of 1 or more influential persons in your Social Media network, and possibly also some unknown people, to monitor, drive and latest to kind of keeping the engagement. Like: First a a lot of Social Media likes as in non stop likes over a long period, then followed by slowing down but at the same unpredictable pattern likewise the ongoing devaluation as executed by the narc himself, then only for the influential person to stop following you right before the presumed narc discard (or was it a very long silent treatment) and then, at an exact time afterwards a silence treatment of a year, with some minor interactions with the narc where he only played, this influential person suddenly insists on following you again, sending multiple requests. The narc played this game with me because I left him for another person, getting me back in was only to devalue and discard and now I am in this in-between strange status, where technically there is really not any ‘we’ anymore given the latest move was severe triangulation with this IPPS, and he has depicted me as a crazy person to her presumably. But then only because of the timing of this influential persons re-entrance into your Social Media, just right before the seemingly final blow of the narc, and combined with very strategic actions in the Social Media from this influential person, you know that there is still some scheming going on and I just don’t know what will happen next – and I just don’t know how to protect myself from what will happen, because I cannot identify all of this coterie or other similar in my Social Media and make no contact with these people, and I cannot take any ‘action’ what so ever vis a vis the influential person. Everything has been run so smooth and scheming and I just have no idea what is going to come next and how to get out of this ‘alive’, I have no idea of the narcs intentions next given that he has schemed for this outcome since some years but it is hard for me to picture any benign actions of his since his scheming of getting me back in turned out was only to start playing with me and toss me to the side and finally followed by multiple triangulations under various forms, with his IPPS and malign hoovers only to play gothca game. I know that he knows that I know what he is, but I never told him myself, only somebody else must have told him what I said about him, and which is likely, but I know he knows because he has been playing with me on some other occasions talking about the personality disorder by its official name, and even once asked me if I were not this personality disorder (projection). I know this is his way of playing and possibly letting me know why he is punishing me. He likes very much to kind of give indications of his next moves and then he can always blame me for being stupid for not having analysed what was said, thoroughly enough, so therefore it is ‘my own fault’ what happens, while he is playing with my feelings and getting supply. Someone can possibly have told him, maybe in a challenging and exposing manner that they know from me what he is, hence all these hateful actions towards me, hence that I fear a motive for some further revengeful endgame, also because I am technically perhaps not so much in the physical sphere at this point and hence of less use potentially but technically available within the Social Media sphere since he is employing these Social Media connections. Still the physical sphere was not a problem before because we met anyway but on the other hand it was marked by one person in his coterie not long after the narcs presumed discard, that I was not physcially in the sphere anymore, like as if it was the narc message to me through the coterie and as if it was the power and the decision of the narc that I was not physically in the sphere anymore – only I had not been physically in the sphere already for some years at that point and the coterie knows that so that is why I feel certain that this was indeed a message from the narc via his coterie. But then why the influential person showing in my Social Media again right when you thought that this was it. How do you possibly do no contact with such a scheming and strategic and influential narc. It is all so elaborate.
HG, I have a question following on from my earlier query about my ex possibly checking my Facebook business page regularly. Assuming it is him, why would he be doing this? It started a couple of days following discard. What is the purpose of checking on me and what does he gain from it?
Thanks
He wants to know what you are doing.
Thanks HG, I don’t really put personal stuff on there as a rule so I don’t really know what information he is hoping to find!
Reading these posts for days now and I still struggle with this Hoover concept and no contact . He is the one who disappeared after 5 years without a single word . He blocked me so I couldn’t contact him after about 3 months . He has since taken down his social media pages . My question is why would I need to go no contact when clearly he has done that to me already? It’s been over 4 months and no word or Hoover as these posts speak of . I will say that he does seem to have narcassitic trsits but was never verbally , physically to me . Mostly just emotionally unavailable . I do remember when I asked him about the way he always pushed me away he said he was broken , didn’t feel emotions like other people etc . I said once to him “ why don’t you ever just say goodbye then “ his reply was Never Goodbye . Which is what brought me here tibsrart with . The first couple months I was quite emotional but now I’m thinking logically and am struggling as his actions aren’t logical
HG, after posting yesterday saying that I couldn’t see my ex hoovering in the future, I read your book Black Hole. I am now wondering if he is in fact passively hoovering. When he disengaged he blocked me on Facebook, however I then started getting daily views on my business account which is unusually high (I used to get maybe 1 or 2 a month). This went on for four weeks. Then two weeks with no views. Now it has started again and in the last 7 days I’ve had 5 views. The stats show they are all the same person and from a mobile. They have all been at roughly the same time, late evening. What is your opinion please? Is it likely to be him and if so, what is the purpose and why so soon? – he has a new IPPS so surely I do not exist to him at the moment.
It may well be him and he may not have a new IPPS, she may be an IPSS.
Thanks HG. He discarded me by telling me he was seeing her and that their relationship is more serious than ours was (she has been introduced to his family/friends very quickly which I never was in the three months we were together). So wouldn’t that make her an IPPS?
Not necessarily.
Claire, Mine did the same during six months NC when I was convinced he was not thinking of me at all (mutual disengagement – I was IPSS). As soon as we were back in contact, it stopped, so I knew it was him. Now he does it with fake FB profiles. I blocked the ones I found but I am sure there are more. Indirect hoovers in my case probably trying to get me to break NC.
Thanks for your comment SMH! My gut feeling is that it is him. After the first four weeks I reached out with a text, which he ignored. The page views stopped after that and I haven’t contacted him at all. They started up again a week ago. So yes – possibly him trying to bait me into contacting him. I’m determined not to this time though!
Claire, not sure this is posting in the correct place but trust your gut. It is him and he is trying to get you to reengage. You sent him a text, which was fuel. He ignored it trying to get even more fuel – to start the cycle again. You didn’t react to him ignoring you, so he is trying again. He knows that you know that he is with someone else so he has to be indirect and persistent because it wouldn’t be ‘proper’ to hoover directly. It sounds familiar to me! In my case, I was fine being IPSS but I think the type of narc must make all the difference. Mine is a mid range cerebral. Passive aggressive, baby!
This is where I am stuck because, no matter how much I read about how a narcissist will always hoover, I just cannot see it happening. It has been 7 weeks of complete silence since my ex disengaged (telling me he is seeing someone else). Now, I realise that he will be in the golden period with her but he told me he never had any emotional attachment to me and never would (a rare moment of truth?!) and that he never goes back to a former girlfriend
10 months with no word from the narc. To the best of my knowledge, the appliance (secondary intimate) was painted white at the last interaction. The narc has been with the new IPPS for over 2 years now. What gives? Seems like it is reasonable to make the conclusion challenged in this article.
You haven’t been in one of the spheres.
Sometimes they leave for a very long time only to show up many years later but I do find there comes a day when they are just done with you for a long time
Thank you for your insight, Lori. I guess what’s confusing to me is I asked HG whether a secondary source is ever discarded without being devalued. He said no. To the best of my knowledge, I was not devalued. So perhaps then, this is shelving but it seems shelving shouldn’t last that long. Thanks again for your response!
IL
I’ve been shelved by multiple narcs for many years at a time. If they’re busy with other fuel sources, they may not think about you for years.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, Windstorm. It is very helpful.
I honestly believe that my narc won’t hoover me. He is now with someone who is an excellent source of fuel. Much better than I ever was or could be. She is taking it so far that I really am sorry for her. Last time she forgave him for sleeping with someone else after only two weeks and said: “Oh it’s ok, I know you are just going through midlife crisis”… And he is laughing at her how dumb she is. But he is all set because she cleans, cooks, washes dishes and does laundry. She is also much easier to approach than I am. She lives closer (much closer) and works with him. So in conclusion I think that I really am one of the lucky ones who won’t be hoovered. But we will see…
Thanks for the response HG. A little slow on reading 😵
After noticing many red flags with one ex, I dumped him and told him to never ever contact me again. He promised me he would not and I felt comfortable with his promises because our arguments were so heated separation was the wisest choice and advisable. All I needed was a few weeks away from him. After two months of no contact and silent treatments from both sides he hoovered me via text, email and showed up unannounced at my door. That was annoying and frustrating because I wanted to recover quickly and concentrate on dating other people. I gave him a few more chances and the same red flags arose. Once after another break up he did not contact me for 5 months. A joyous moment which I ceased, took advantage of his absence, dated and all that I felt for him had fully dissipated. Looking back it was just infatuation because I distinctly remember when times were calm I would often think I would be better off with someone else. Anyway, from then on he has been hoovering me every 3 months for the past 3 years. I get no surge of emotion thinking about him or reading his messages and I never reply.
The main issue between he and me was that he didn’t want a committed g/b relationship. Every time we would get back together I would ask without fail what we were. (Yes I wanted to piss him off! I enjoyed seeing him getting angry, squirm seeing his face redden and his neck vein protruding about to pop! ~ It gave me a rush followed by a calming sensation for some reason.) His replies were always like this: “Why does a label matter? We are what we are. Those labels should not define us. We could be happy and not be boyfriend and girlfriend or meet our families and friends”. Bullshit. It’s not like I wanted marriage. Why stick around with in a mediocre relationship which its bordering on fuck buddy’izm when better men are readily available who want something purposeful. His hoovers are puzzling considering his choice to forgo a true and meaningful relationship. Hoovers do not change my mind. They do the opposite. They strengthen my resolve.
HG Tudor you are right that narcissists do hoover and there is no final discard. I believe the final discard lies with me in this particular instance and I could implement 100% NC but why would I? I’m in his thoughts and his hoovers are compliments. No?
CPR,
Couldn’t help but notice the description ‘mediocre relationship’ , and then your last paragraph. His mediocre behaviour is insulting to you. You deserve so much better.
Caroline, Thank you. We all deserve better and there is better. Who wants confused narcissistic men in our lives? They want to be head of a family and in control and yet cannot manage to keep a happy wife or partner for life. Like Mr Tudor likes to say – risible! I’m sorry but I am not familiar with your story. Is it similar to mine?
I realised he was a narc and went NC after 6 years entaglement. I was recently hoovered after 9 months with No Contact. I unblocked him on the mobile. I know that is wrong, but somehow I thought that with all my insight (from reading all your articles) and knowledge, I somehow could manage to resist and see through him. (I called him out AS a narc last year, but he pretended like that had not happened). He sent me a SMS and that became a conversation, where he tried to meet me. I agreed to meet him, and we had sex.
He called and messaged me every day for a week, tried to feed me all kinds of lies, how he had feelings for me and tried to manipulate me by future faking and gaslighting things he has done in the past.
I had a lot of emotional thinking, because I ended up having sex with him. I did not know that I could get affected that way- since I know what he is, and how he functions. But I have learned that it is very hard to see the manipulations in the moment, when it is happening, and there is no chance of calling him out. He just does not accept it.
I broke contact and just stated again that he is a narcissist, he can not fool me, he has no control over me and I want nothing to do with him.
After a week I get a message where he writes: “i want to try to fix things with M (the IPPS he got after I left, who he left just when he hoovered me)
So I am not going to try to contact you anymore. I have had feelings for her all the way, but I am a ficked up person, you were right about that. So I am saying goodbye now”.
Mr Tudor, is this a Malign Hoover, because his Benign did not work?
I have not answered. I see that he is disregarding my last message to him, and pretending to be the one breaking contact. Oh, and also he has deleted his Instagram. I used to have him on my “blocked persons”- list, and now he is gone. Could I be watching a fuel crisis?
Thanks a lot, in advance.
No, that is not malign.
Thank you for your honesty in your comment which demonstrates how the belief that you can somehow resist and control the situation with our kind is led by emotional thinking and has a high risk of increased ensnarement (as you experienced by engaging in intimacy with the narcissist again thus providing fuel and submitting to control).
I do not see a fuel crisis.
Ok, thank for answering my long personal post. So what is it, just an attemt to triangulate?
Get it. He tried to reinstate control, by making up some Shit. I never bought any of it… Predictable nonsense. Did it wound him, that I did not reply?
HG,
if a narcissist discarded you and you went no contact and you know he stalks your social media but all he can see is that you are happy, you never mention him, you act like he never existed but sometimes you mantion how great it was with your previous exes or he can see you are friendly with other exes but still in no contact with them – does it wound them?
Yes. But do not become preoccupied with seeking to wound the narcissist because you are continuing a form of engagement – remember, once you know, you go, get out and stay out, this includes thinking about how he will consider your current situation.
After almost commiting suicide today , because of all the difficult situations i’m in now this toxic web of deception from birth MatriNarc Siblings to ex-Husband and two ex boyfriends . Finally realizing going no contact is where true power is rooted . “The wearing of guilt “ had me on my lowest today . But the advice from you H.G Reading the comments of other bloggers made me strong again . This is just the beginning off a difficult battle but now I do believe I Matter . I thank you all so much .
DoForLuv – I understand the weight of wearing guilt. I’m sorry yours brought you so low – but so happy to hear that you worked through it…take care, stay strong.
Thank you so much ! WhoCares,
I’am happy you understand but sad at the same time because you’ve felt this too many times as well I think . I really appreciate your powerfull words . Love and light to you .
DFL
you do very much matter.
Doforluv
Please seek some professional help. If you are that low you need some help with this and that’s ok a lot of us do. Please don’t try to go it alone
Thank you much Caroline . Yes ! We all really do matter . Much love to you and yours !
Dear DoForLuv,
Your comment was so heartbreaking to read
Can you consult with Mr Tudor?
You DO matter beautiful one
It’s time to …. DoForMe …… stuff everyone else !!!
You can do this
Hugs to you precious
Luv Bubbles Xx 😘
Awwhh This had me in tears Bubbles , I will consult with HG asap again It just been chaos .
DoForMe Sounds very good to me i’ll write this on a piece off paper and read it everyday .
Thank you so much ! ❤️🤗Lotsss of love to you
Doforlove
You do matter you just don’t realize that yet because you have spent too much time around people telling you that you don’t. Please don’t believe what you have taught to think or feel. Deep down there is a power inside of you that you are unaware of. There is a person inside struggling to break out and be free. Going no contact is the key. Once you are away, once you get used to the calmness, once you purge yourself of the darkness you thought to be normal; you will grow and feel in ways you never thought possible. What seems to be ” normal and right” in terms of personal relationships will in time seem unnatural and uncomfortable. Eventually you will only be able to tolerate healthy relations, but it takes time. As for guilt, you didn’t disappoint those in your life that brought you to this point, they disappointed you. You are disappointing yourself.Be strong. You are better than this…You just don’t realize it yet.
Star ! You are so right!! Your perspective on this helps me alot and gives me understanding and self love in one . I believe you had to learn this as well . And i’am so thankfull you took the time to tell me this very appreciated . Lots of love and light to you ❤️
@lori yes I agree with you ! Reading HGs work and professional nearby is wise .. thank you so much for the advice . Love and light to you
Dear lovely DoForLuv,
I hope they were tears of happiness …I’m glad you liked DoForMe … gotta think positive …. we are all winners here !
No one and I mean no one is worth giving their life away for .. NO ONE!
Baby steps precious and you are very precious
You are special and don’t you forget it …. now work on believing it,
we are all here for you
💜💜💜💜
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hi HG, its my first time posting here but I’ve been I read your articles everyday for months now to reaffirm that the piece of scum I was involved with is a narcissist. Not sure what level as he is pretty stupid and has dumb illusions of winning lottery and getting rich on online poker sites. lmao!! I would initially think he is a lesser but he displays more the lower mid range traits than any other. I realized his behavior was extremely abnormal with all his game playing and silent treatments so I started googlng, “why am I the one to always initiate messages?” and finally ended up here and able to realize what he was finally! Thank you for your helping so many of us to open our eyes to what we did not want to see.
I escaped the jerk twice! This last time it is for good as now I know what he is thanks to you. First time it took him 10 months to give me a pretty good Grand Hoover and not knowing what he was it worked only to have him shelve me pretty quickly once again. I guess I was a DLS and or IPSS at times. This time I escaped after tricking him to think I was going to send him one of my very expensive guitars. LOL still laughing over that. I wanted to double whammy him when I left!
I think I got a small scale hoover when he realized I had blocked him on FB after him going silent for two weeks on me once again. He immediately texted me as if everything was normal with his same lame excuses on being so busy, back hurting, having to scrounge enough money for food, bla bla bla!! He is such a loser! HG was this a prevenative hoover or a lame grand hoover?
Thank you for reading and I am pleased my work has assisted you. It was a follow-up hoover.
Thanks HG I appreciate your answering, It’s not easy figuring this all out but I’m getting there!
You are welcome.
HG will a narc switch tactics if he/she thinks it will yield better results?
Yes
I imagine the typed of Hoover’s used depend on the status we held. In my case as DLS and my surprise escape I received only 3rd party Hoover’s. His other DLS who had spent far longer with him and was invested in more received a flurry of calls, different manipulation tactics etc. Also he was tipped off.
If a narcissist is exposed (mid ranger) – and all friends and community know as it was in local newspapers, what then? He managed to keep his career (amazing) and has hooked up with a wealthy woman. Do they finally stop? Marry the woman? Or continue with the cheating etc?
The exposure wounds but the effect fades over time. It might in some cases force the narcissist to move to new hunting grounds, but in the instance described he has not needed to owing to the retention of career and a fresh victim. The behaviour will continue.
Are hoovers unlikely against secondary sources who have been discarded without explanation?
No.
Thank you.