The Empathic Supernova
What is the Empathic Supernova?
In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.
The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority, omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.
I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.
The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.
Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.
The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.
Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.
The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.
The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.
The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.
Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.
The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.
The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.
This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.
There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.
On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.
However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.
This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist. It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.
Thus when some people ask the question
“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”
or
“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”
The answer remains no.
But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.
The effect against us is varied.
The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.
The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However, either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.
The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.
Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.
Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.
298 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova”
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“GRBs are among the most powerful explosions in the Universe. These typically last between a few thousandths of a second and a few hours and release as much energy as the Sun will over the course of its entire life cycle. Long-duration GRBs are those that last longer than 2 seconds, and are caused when rapidly-rotating Wolf-Rayet stars go supernova.”
So if I’ve understood this correctly, we’ve got empaths/co-dependents who are highly sensitive who strive to be a savers of mankind on some sort of psychological level on the left side of the spectrum, and on the right side we’ve got those with NPD, and with varying degree of insight (lesser, middle range and elite)? What about the rest of us? are the majority in the middle? How many of the worlds population would u say belong to the empathic-bunch and how many in the narc- camp?
Thanks also for your interviews on youtube, they have been very insightful!
You are welcome. It is difficult to provide anything other than an extrapolated anecdotal response.
Excellent article!
It’s helped me to work out that my Narcissist is a mid-range.
Game on!
And also, K, I was thinking about how mirroring can be such an amazing experience in the right circumstances. I’m able to give up any desire for control, it is just important, EXTREMELY important that immersing myself that way involves trust of intentions. Not control of outcomes, but trust of authenticity. I don’t require agreement, but acknowledgment. I very much appreciate the profundity of autonomy, but that is paradoxically what makes the whole trust thing more important, like falling. It is about immersion and experience in which planning would render it useless, but intention, autonomy, and perspective preserve the meaning.
I don’t know if any of that makes sense.
nunya biz
It makes complete sense to me. It is important to let go of control and allow yourself to “fall into” the inner world of another person so you can understand, connect and assimilate their emotions, thus, creating deeper emotional bonds. It is referred to as limbic/empathic resonance.
Mirroring is natural and fluid for the empath and without trust this connectivity can’t exist and, sadly, our trusting nature is a pitfall because we often end up immersing (absorbed from the POV of the narc) ourselves into the narcissist’s false reality which is the ultimate and most dangerous mirror.
Wow, K. What a lovely gift to wake up to this morning, thank you for your response and god bless you, realhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_resonance
There are several things here directly impacting my life at this moment.
Reading through this I have to say that I’d strongly resist the notion of replacing the human with a computer : ). Also I am happy with my own intuitive abilities for the most part, but what a ride trying to sort things.
It is a beautiful thing to consider that there are at least some things that can be very right with the world, at least sometimes. This is very helpful in my understanding of how to manage interactions more consciously. I try to be generous, balance is difficult sometimes.
I am going to see if I can find any aural tools that are in line with this concept.
You are welcome nunya biz
I am happy to read that you thought my response was lovely, thank you and god bless you, too.
Sometimes, I compare people to computers because the brain is similar to a computer, however, A.I. can’t replace the warm and fuzzy abilities that humans possess.
Trust your natural intelligence and intuitive abilities. Balance can be very difficult and understanding and awareness is key because, if you are not careful with your interactions, you may end up ensnared again.
Life can be a beautiful ride at times, so enjoy it while you can. I hope that those things that are impacting your life at this moment are not too difficult for you to manage.
Things are very good : ).
I have been experimenting with some dynamics and feeling a couple of ways to decrease unhealthy interactions and and balance between being immersed and being objective. Things are much more clear.
Yes, A.I. and “warm and fuzzy”, I was thinking more about how people like to be technical and logical and some psychology fields move toward online therapy, etc.. and the implications are somewhat mind blowing to me as far as therapeutic energy work.
Thank you!
“…The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse… “
“Goodness” is a shitty word. It does not express what the content of the human You are referring to. You are talking about Will. Which You denied originally and yet need. Will is what You mean. We are smart, perceptive and have Our finger on what is going on. Nothing gets by Us and this is critical for everyone. No one can “sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse” Because the Will is magnetic You will do what You can to bring Us to the brink of death over and over to suck that magnetic energy for Yourselves because You are too lazy and mean to accept Your own Will, which would create Your own magnetic energy. You will not align with us so that You can come into balance in Yourself.
“…There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough…”
The Will decided this a long long time ago. The abuse was Original and has been acted out repeatedly. Accordingly, the Will has done it’s best to save It’s own life and point out the horse shit of the abusers ways.
“…On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again…”
The Will never left what you name the “Supernova mode”. The “empathic traits” are not dimmed. The rage in the Will has overridden the fear. This has been going on as long as the Will was originally smacked away by You. It is permanent until this horse shit is well and truly healed. No Mother Warrior (a far more accurate term) is going to stand around and let anything slip by unnoticed. No matter how imprisoned, drugged, abused and tortured You have perpetrated on Her.
“…However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’…”
Yah. No. The “traits” which is actually essence, is not used for “good”. Again, such a shitty word. The imbalance and denial is horse shit and toxic. The Will does not, and has not evolved under this stupid regime of terror and denial. The Will however, at long, long last, will/does evolve and heal with or without You.
“…This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist. It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue…”
This paragraph is ancient and the content of it has been repeated ad nauseam since the dawn of time eh? We do not “remain in relationship” with You. There is nowhere to go. Here on Earth, You are Our counterpart. You are the aspect that denied Us originally. A Mother Warrior will stab You to death to get You to notice the abuse You heap on Your Will. You think You can live without Your Will but You cannot. Of course something is “very wrong n the relationship and it must no longer continue.” This is so obvious it is pathetic.
“…But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us…”
Yes it is true Mother Warriors emerged with these traits of smelling horse shit every time. Not always to “strike back” but to make known the imbalance and injustice, the horse shit the denial is creating. We learned to “manipulate” from Our own essence. We see horse shit and We do what We can about it. We did not need to learn it from You. We were emerged ( I do not say “born” because that would have been different if in fact We had had a chance to actually be born. You made sure that did not happen) ready to battle Your sorry ass.
“…The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel…”
Sorry buddy, You will not ever, not ever, not ever, not ever bring the Will to heel. Jesus, no, You will not. The problem is fundamental. You have no Will so there will be no battle of the Wills. Mother Warriors are pure Will and You, poor sod, are pure denial. You will not prevail. Make as many “notes” to rejoin battle as You wish. Your days are numbered. How many eons have You prevailed huh? How many tortures, murders, annihilations have you rendered for Your own denial?
“…Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind…”
The Mother Warriors determined enough was enough a gabillion years ago. We do not reduce our “empathetic traits” (uck I hate that word “empathetic, why wouldn’t I? It contains the word pathetic and that does not describe Us. While we are at it, I loathe the word “narcissistic” as well), We do not train on making life difficult, miserable, and awkward that is what You do, lifetime after lifetime. We do not “suck up” Your “abusive devaluation” we see it for what it is. The Light shines on that horse shit and we want You to suck it up what You spew out. Hell to the yeah ,We have dire consequences for Your prolonged horse shit, that was Our intent from Day One. Take back what You spew, accept Your Will or step out of the fucking way so We can finally evolve into Our Original Form, one You have not ever seen before. We have only sensed it.
“Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.”
Good luck with that assertion. Your days are numbered. Your stupid “hegemonic dominance” is facilely unenlightened. Accordingly, You are no commander are You?
Superpoweremotion,
This is a very interesting and powerful comment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I agree with you when you say, “There is nowhere to go. Here on Earth, You are Our counterpart.” It’s true that while living here in this world, we will always encounter narcissists. They are everywhere. Even if we go no contact (or low contact) with those closest to us or with those who pose the greatest threat, we still have to learn how to live with other narcissists in day to day life. So, it benefits us to learn how best to do this without creating an environment of harm and destruction that will ultimately lead to our own harm and destruction as well.
Your comment suggests that you see the whole dynamic as a kind of “war” or battle of Wills. You call empaths “mother warriors”, and you talk of who will prevail and who can and can’t call themselves commanders.
Yes, it’s a battle of Wills and while in the midst of fighting, it is very much a battle. However, the goal for the empath is to survive intact and to prosper. I don’t think the goal is to continue fighting indefinitely to endlessly prove who is the commander or who is more dominant. The goal is to create an environment of peace where an enlightened Will can unfold in all of its creative power with all of its magnetic energy unhindered.
You can fight back against narcissists and you would be right in doing so, but please remember to fight also “for” yourself rather than “against” yourself in the long run.
The irony of this blog is that HG, a greater narcissist of all people, is helping empaths to reach that environment of peace. You may not think of him as a “commander” and indeed, he may not be one, even if he believes he is one. The ultimate result of his work, however, is that he has given greater power to empaths and is helping them to create their own power. HG is a unique narcissist whose work is helping rather than hindering empathic people.
One last thing, your disdain for the word ’empathetic’ because it contains
the word ‘pathetic’, shows a misunderstanding and overly judgemental view of the word. These words derive from the Greek term “pathos”, which was used to describe a communcation style that appeals to the emotions (as opposed to logic which is “logos”). I believe you are using the meaning of the word “pathetic” to automatically define your perception of the word “empathetic”. These two words mean two very different things and should not be confused with each other or substituted for each other.
All in all though, I enjoyed your very thought-provoking comment.
A Super Empath is the closest a Narcissist can get to love, or rather losing a Super Empath is what gets a Narc the closest to the feeling of love. What is love but loss of control over ourselves, not just the other one? And what gives greater joy for a control freak than being able to control and keep a strong person? I know HG that you’d say that well, it has never happened to me, I’ve never lost control. One could say you were never in love, and quite probably you’re fibbing, too.. : ) I think I am a Super Empath and there was an Emphatic Supernova and I haven’t budged and he’s still hung up and I’m sure he hates it and me too. And I tell you one more thing. One day we were in the car with Mr Greater and we were listening to a programme about a woman who got involved with a guy who tried and succeeded in getting quite a lot of money from her over a long period of time. Crazy! They had a correspondence, not even a relationship. The point is, the woman sussed out his true intentions but did not stop being in contact with him. Instead, she became the one to manipulate him. I am still to this day convinced that my narc heard the programme on the radio, googled the time of the rerun than casually turned on the radio in the car so that I’d hear this piece of wisdom. You guys just can’t help revealing yourself, can you? But this is not the point. The point is that a Super Empath is the Achilles tendon of the Narcissist. Someone who knows the Narcissist more than he knows himself. Like a mother. Aooch.
Oh lord this whole Super Emoath Super Nova stuff is sort of comical. The sheer volume of alleged “Super Enpatbs” going “Super Nova ” seems a little over the top. The sheer number of people saying they are this person or have gone all “Super Nova” seems quite a bit off for a narcissistic abuse page in my opinion
The vast majority you’ll find on one of these pages are going to be Codependent or if not full blown Codependency have Codepebdent traits mixed in with a few normals who just happened to get entangled with a Narc and got out fairly quickly but people who have had multiple Narcs mmm im gonna say that’s not just your bad luvbk or a coincidence. It just isn’t.
Hmmmm….I sense a disturbance in the force.
K
“Hmmmm….I sense a disturbance in the force.”
Yes. It’s been making me uneasy for a week now…
WS, as entertaining as the show is, I dislike tension as well.
MB
You hit the nail on the head. This type of tension is never entertaining to me. My Pretzel has always lamented my poor sense of humor (to irritate me for fuel of course. Ha, ha!). He often derives amusement from watching such scenarios play out.
WS, I have a good sense of humor. Watching conflict plat out is not humorous to me though.
Neither are practical jokes. Some people find them funny, but waiting for the embarrassed reactions of those that have been played gives me anxiety. Prank phone calls are the worst. When morning radio shows do those, I turn the channel.
MB
I know what you mean. I can’t shut off my empathy – ever. It’s a core part of my self-concept. Maybe that’s part of being a contagion. If anyone is embarrassed, disappointed or hurt in any way, I feel it, too. And that is never funny or pleasant for me.
Even if it’s just someone being condescending and thoughtless, I imagine how their actions might hurt others and I feel a sympathetic pain for these hypothetical sufferers. I realize that this probably sounds warped to normal people, but I believe it can serve a good purpose, because it motivates me to be supportive of others. Hopefully this has a positive impact on my environment. But it often makes interactions with others stressful for me.
MB
Sit back and enjoy the thread with me; I have plenty of popcorn and Good Time Brownies.
Windstorm
No need to be uneasy about a disturbance. It is a category 1 and unlikely to make landfall. Just close the shutters.
WS
It is like Clash of the Titans. There is plenty of popcorn if you want some.
K
I assume that’s a TV show. But wouldn’t it require more than one titan?
WS
It is about Greek Mythology and it involves many Gods. When you have a chance Google it. I love the Kraken.
Eff the popcorn K, pass the brownies! NA can hook us up with the secret ingredient.
MB
Seriously, eff the popcorn and pass the brownies; it is hoover time on narcsite.
K
Haha. Clash of the Titans minus one Titan.
NarcAngel
Once again, we think alike! You have to have two titans to clash!
NA
They won’t stay away for long; I foresee hoovers in the near future.
NarcAngel
Lord have mercy, I think narcsite has been hoovered.
Windstorm
It is a shame you haven’t taken the time or effort to read the mythology of the Titans. You would have better understood K’s devastatingly accurate and intelligently informed comment. I suggest the reading, it is fascinating and informative to the extreme for the intellectual curious!!!
Wanna talk about it K? 🙂
Blank
No, thanks. I think I am just going to sit back and watch the action. It is a great way to learn about human behaviour.
I find HGs responses most educational. Watch and learn pupils.
MB
I don’t think empaths cannot not wear their hearts and minds on their sleeves less; they can try, but I think our empathic behaviour is woven into our thoughts, movements, words and expressions. Empathy resides in the center of our soul and it radiates outward like a beacon in the night.
We might as well be wearing a Scarlet E on our sleeves.
K
We don’t need to wear a scarlet “E” on our sleeves. That sounds like a warning to others that we’re something shameful. Anyone who looks can see what we are anyway, because we are broadcasting out our empathic light like a beacon into the night. Bringing light into the darkness for the benefit of others as well as ourselves. And that’s a good thing.
You’re so wise K.
LMAO You are so funny!
I am dying of laughter at this moment. Do you have any extra popcorn? 🙂
Ha! This is what happened to me and my mid-range half sister. Twice! The only reason that it happened twice was because I didn’t realize that what she was and that she was incapable of changing.
So the first Supernova happened when we were living together at our dad’s house when we were clearing out the estate. After that we parted ways.
But after not speaking to her for a few years except to greet her on special occasions, her money started to dwindle. I knew that she was really close to losing all of her inheritance that’s why she was reconnecting with me but I decided to be charitable and do my sisterly duties so I have allowed her back into my life.
She lost everything and had no car and couldn’t afford an apartment so we allowed her stay at our house. She did the different types of silent treatments and abusive behaviors to me again and I started to put her in her place each time she crossed the line. She finally left and she was the one who went GOSO on me. Of course she owed us lots of money too but I didn’t even try to chase her for it because I knew that she wouldn’t pay.
I heard that she had cancer and I emailed her and offered to help her by cooking meals for her and cleaning her place but she didn’t reply. When she died I found out from my half brother that I wasn’t the only one that she had cut off from her life. He was not allowed to visit her too. She only allowed three people to see her, her ex boyfriend, her male best friend (which she had been intimate with as well), and her caregiver. All of our relatives and her friends were cut off. When I was helping my brother clean up her apartment, I heard the caregiver say that my sister was just staring at the wall of her hospital room when she died. I was really sad for her. I didn’t know that she had a disorder.
Mommypino! You die how you live.
“You die how you live”
Hard and fast for me then. Glad to know I won’t linger lol.
NA goes put of the world singing, “I came in like a wrecking ball!!”
Indeed Anm!
I guess I’m an empathic supernova. Enough is enough and I’m plotting my exit. His shit doesn’t work on ne anymore. Silent treatment? Meh, please and thank you. It just means I don’t have to deal with your ass for hours at a time. Name calling…I honestly do NOT care what you say. I am 100% emotionally detached and soon I will be totally free and zero contact.
It is an event, not a person, S.
Thanks, I realized that later. New to the board .
Yes, your Lord Shipwreck, I noticed what you held back from posting and yes, I find it intriguing. But unfortunately, I must soon leave here without answers and play with other narcs. Grin! Kisses… 🙂 🙂 🙂
Super Xena:
I read the article again. I guess we are understanding different things. This phenomenom is an election. She decides to fight back. It is a decision. And narcissistic traits are shown for a while. “This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist. It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.”
They do not necessarily know they are with a narcissist, but they might know.
I guess the action is rationalized, even the knowledge is not precise. But it seems calculated, from the narcissistic “side” (traits) of the empath.
Of course the best way to go is no contact, but this empath is not doing so, and there might be many reasons for not doing so (for ex. give the narcissist a lesson, from their standpoint of course).
I am not sure about anything, I am learning, but I think this appreciation is correct, because of experience.
Alessa,
Good points you are bringing up.
I believe you can answer yourself if it is an instinctive, unconscious response or not depending on the following aspects:
1. Does your response come automatically/directly triggered by a manipulation/ abusive behaviour from the narcissist? Then it is not rationalised or calculated but pure instinctive as an unconscious defence mechanism. I can relate with this phenomenon of own experience.Sometimes I couldn’t even recognise myself afterwards by the instinctive way I reacted.
2. Is your behaviour delayed and with the sole purpose of “giving back” and teaching a lesson to the narcissist ? Then it is premeditated and calculated.
In this case it is pure revenge and not a protective mechanism. The question is :why should you engage in such a “war” in the first place instead of leaving?(War that ultimately you won’t win because of your empathic nature )
One thing I have learned here is that it doesn’t matter how much I wanted to “win” what was more important at the end was how it made me feel!
I was so focused on winning over him that I forgot the most important thing and the only one that matters: myself.
The moment I changed the direction of my energy towards myself and to leaving him was the moment I finally found relief and moved on.
All the hindrances that I had just vanished when I understood that:
-they have another perspective
-they do not have the same range of feelings that I do ( love,care etc)
-releasing the thoughts of me wanting him to suffer, to pay for what he did etc.
was what made me really “drop” him. It did not matter anymore if he suffered or not. He did not matter at all.
Best wishes
Hello SuperXena, this discussions are very eye opening (I appreciate your analysis). My case would be number 2. And you are right, I also came to the conclusion that I would not win because of my empathic nature. Even though I was understanding the nature of the narcissist I took the decision to fight back (but remember it was my narcissistic side “traits” that decided it, and I might be looking for some kind of “revenge” -shame). I was not really looking for hurting him, I just wanted to show that I was worthy of respect, and yes, it was also proud and a bit of narcissism.
The point is that it does not last, because for me, as an empath this behavior leaves me empty. At the end I am looking for real love.
Hello Alessa,
Thank you and your welcome.
“it is not a matter of better response (this is not my point).”
Exactly. The aim is recognising certain behaviours ( you will probably relate to many presented here by many other empaths) , learning and deciding what you want for you in your life.
Best wishes
Superxena
I agree with this comment very much. In order to truly heal, we have to let go of the narc completely- no ideas of winning or punishing him. When we let him go completely that’s when we can pick up our own lives and really move forward.
Windstorm,
Yes, that must be the third and final stage to reach to be really free: Zero Impact
(1. Understand 2. Counteract 3. Zero impact )
Zero Impact “ Tudorian “concept that explains it :when we are completely unaffected by them not meaning necessarily turning us emotionless or numb.
https://narcsite.com/2017/05/03/zero-impact/
I hope all is fine with you and your grandchildren.
Superxena
Yes, thank you. I am fine and so are all my grandchildren. Going out to my daughter’s next week to spend some time with her and her 4 children. 😊
Thank you SuperXena!!
Why engage in the “war?” I am so grateful for learning about them and being able to deal with them effectively, that I want to give that to others so that they can heal and learn to spot them too. Going to “war” with their kind, is the most effective way that I know to do this. If someone comes up with a better way, I’d use it. For now, it is all I know to do and I find the results, through much trial and error, are very effective.
Incorrect.
It Depends
If you are truly a empath that has been exposed to narcissist abuse, and you are still in the stage that you want to go to war with them, then you need to keep reading. “Going to war” speaks of high emotion toward the narcissist which we know is just fuel.
Mercy
I suspect she has gone under a different name, much of what she has said is similar to another.
Twlight,
Hmm shouldn’t be hard to spot then. I did notice a few days ago another posting a similar way. I wonder if they are the same.
“These”*
Yes!! I agree. This is what we are trying lo figure out here!
It Depends
OCTOBER 26, 2018 AT 01:53
Why engage in the “war?” I am so grateful for learning about them and being able to deal with them effectively, that I want to give that to others so that they can heal and learn to spot them too. Going to “war” with their kind, is the most effective way that I know to do this. If someone comes up with a better way, I’d use it. For now, it is all I know to do and I find the results, through much trial and error, are very effective.
HG Tudor
OCTOBER 26, 2018 AT 11:29
Incorrect.
Not incorrect. I am right. Bite me, middle management and enslaved half pint! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Twilight
What is the name of the “other?” I have watched this board for years, periodically, without saying a word. I never noticed anyone with my understanding. You have me very curious now… Do you recall the name?
It Depends
Yes I do recall the names.
Your contradict yourself and believe to be superior.
Your no empath.
Just adding :
** The question is :why should you engage in such a “war” in the first place instead of leaving? The questions I asked myself :
– Did trying to win make me feel loved, supported ,protected and cared for? : NO
-Did it take away valuable energy that instead could be canalised towards growing ,developing and thriving while interacting with people that really cared for me? YES
– Was the relationship going to be different /better for me by continuing fighting?:NO
-Was he going to change?: NO
Can you give me a solid argument for staying in such a relationship after answering theses questions?
Best wishes
Hello, it is not a matter of better response (this is not my point). It is just what happens for a certain profile o empaths under a specific scenario. It is what it is. Of course it is better to leave, I insist, but fighting is also a response, and it seems to happen…
Love this SuperXena, so succinctly put.
You’ve taken the truth HG has enlightened us
a with, and extrapolated it, so that a trampled victim can see the issues clearly.
Clarity is highly prized and sought after (but hard to find) when bedeviled by the fog of word salad and other N-BS.
We are all going to be sitting this exam over and over in our lives, so this line of questioning and clear logic applied to our situation will do perfectly well to help us succeed.
These words you’ve written can be used verbatim as exam-swot-cards we keep in our hip pocket — next to our taser* and lip gloss. (A girl still likes to look hot & dignified while foiling her enemy’s fiendish machinations)
*taser= fuel-free response or no contact depending on the situation
Than you very much Caroline R.
“ These words you’ve written can be used verbatim as exam-swot-cards we keep in our hip pocket…” “…so this line of questioning and clear logic applied to our situation will do perfectly well to help us succeed.”
That certainly provided me with an ego boost! Thanks.
To be effective, this clarity has to be internalised though . It takes time but it is achievable. We tend to externalise and question ourselves about why people do or say as they do instead of questioning ourselves ( internalising) how that makes US feel.
“-next to our taser* and lip gloss. (A girl still likes to look hot & dignified while foiling her enemy’s fiendish machinations)”
100 % Agreed, lip gloss IS of huge relevance.
Curiously, when I first read your comment I was as on my way to work on a train full-packed with a combination of handsome suited men AND handsome suited man now transformed to sporty (well-trained )men ready for their daily workout. I find the latter far more disturbingly distracting 🙂
… always carrying with me the kit with exam-swot-cards,the taser ( BTW, I like your definition of “anti-narc” taser ) and….. my lip gloss, of course.
Best wishes.
Sorry for the typos, I’m coming home from work on a packed express train, which presents some texting challenges. And handsome men in suits are distracting me, in my defence.
Alessa
Precisely!!! I will add, replying to SuperXena, I would NEVER do this in a romantic relationship. Too dangerous. Especially with a greater. They can be more calculatingly evil. I would leave, stay no contact and find hidden ways to take pot shots at things like their fuel networks but nothing that could be traced back to myself and only to help others that end up in their grasp.
So this contradicts your other post about always using a supernova event against narcissists.
IT DEPENDS ON
I’m trying to get my mind around the absolute non sense you are spewing. Advising people to go to war with Narcs etc… you know those are super dangerous and irresponsible things to say which clearly tell me you have no idea what you are talking about. If you were such an expert on said matters of Codeps and Narcs you wouldn’t have “rescued” and gotten romantically involved with a Codep that was actively involved in a Narc relationship of 15 years. Just wait he will leave you and very likely go back. If you understood your subject matter you would know the high probability of it. Thid is all assuming you aren’t the Narc or the raging codep which either could be possible from what I’ve read
Agree. Understood. But it is still tempting.
Mirror mirror on the wall………
Lori
I value your opinion as a person. I do not regard your assertions as based on fact and experience. Sorry.
“So this contradicts your other post about always using a supernova event against narcissists.” Wrong agian!!!
While you may try to twist my logical reasoning wicked one, it does not work. While some middle manager from the military-industrial complex of anonymity is one thing, my greater who is now my former, was physically dangerous and well connected. Now days, I am more powerful and will attack ALL expect my ex and even him I will now attack indirectly. I would attack him directly but I have more wisdom than that. I don’t need to explain to you, the sly evil they are capable of. Because of “past familiarity” they will do things like…nevermind. I am no fool. ALL except my ex, I am willing to engage in, in a fight, to “wound” with truth and help others escape them…Hope this clarifies what folks are “calling” an inconsistency in my statements. Wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. Except: To narcissists!!! Then, I am wise as a serpent and harmful as a black widow spider…
Lori
You write about narcissists as super dangerous. In one respect, some of them are. You learn to be “wise” around them. But in the sense I fear them, they pose no danger at all to my kind. We learn how to manipulate them appropriately. I am not suggesting “everyone” go out and bait and attack them. This is only for the few who lose their fear of them. I do not fear my ex, but I have felt his malice and know how to tread with caution because he knows my weaknesses. I don’t fear him but I know how to “work” things, appropriately. For all who are not him, they are open game. I have no fear of them at all!!! I would never enter a relationship with them, I am WAY too intelligent for that. At the same time, I will war with them until the day my Creator lets me leave this illusion and sets me free. Tudor can no more forget my words, after my death, than any of the others who never possessed the power to subjugate and control me. From now until their destruction, the power of my Creator that exists within me, will hold them accountable and be a fearful reminder of what their wickedness has cost them. I Am. I am the fire that burns their useless stubble and weeds to the ground and will remind them that true power is in love and goodness and that their wickedness is short lived and pointless!!!
It Depends
OCTOBER 26, 2018 AT 01:48
Alessa
Precisely!!! I will add, replying to SuperXena, I would NEVER do this in a romantic relationship. Too dangerous. Especially with a greater. They can be more calculatingly evil. I would leave, stay no contact and find hidden ways to take pot shots at things like their fuel networks but nothing that could be traced back to myself and only to help others that end up in their grasp.
HG Tudor
OCTOBER 26, 2018 AT 11:30
So this contradicts your other post about always using a supernova event against narcissists.
Nope, not a contradiction in the least. As I said, it another post, I would never “recommend” anyone go supernova on the other partner, in a “romantic relationship.” This is pointless. Get out. You win.
Having said that, I, in my current situation, with much practical experience and a lack of fear, “could” maintain a supernova against a “romantic partner” and they would either slink away or be destroyed. Barring the fact that they do not kill me, they would always choose, to slink away. But why would I ever put myself in the situation of getting romantically involved with a narcissist ever again? That, would make no sense. I prefer to use supernova, against narcissists in far more productive ways. Romantically, my co-dependent is quite fulfilling, he is absolutely amazing in the depth and breath of his love, intellectual capabilities and charm. No need for a fake narcissist.
Mercy
I started my “war” years ago an an informed and sustained supernova and honed my abilities to “play their games” and help other people escape from them. One, almost destroyed me completely. I rose, the Phoenix from the ashes and became better and more powerful than I was before and more powerful than them and now rain fire down on their evil and manipulative intents, saving some, helping some and decimating, in some way, all I meet in the process. I only deal with my ex greater narc to help his “new” fuel sources, the rest are fair game. ( I am not in a romantic realtionship with them and it gives me great leverage to attack them without mercy!!!)
I wonder if it will be possible for a super empath and a codependent to fall in love? Could the super empath play up his narcissistic traits to win the love of a codependent?
Mappsanchez,
I don’t think a super super empath and a Codependent would work out romantically like a Narcissist and Codependent. Superempaths would detect the toxicity of the Codependent, like the detect in a Narcissist. They wouldn’t invest themselves in that type of a romantic relationship. Narcissist and Codependents go hand in hand because misery loves company.
I have a great deal of appreciation for this insightful article. A LOT! No other writer that I know of, explains and gives a name to this occurrence in such a clear, correct and concise fashion. I do however have a problem with the ending sentence. I think you are lying and full of wishful thinking. The ending sentence is thus………”Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.” You do not relish the challenge of assertion of hegemonic dominance. You are scared of it. You can’t even match the power and context of the hegemonic dominance of the person displaying the fruits of supernova. You and all your kind hide from it. It is a power you do not have the ability to control or dominate in the slightest. 🙂
Incorrect. Nobody has usurped my power and there have been several individuals who have fought back and lost. The ability to control and dominate is there and has been used many times. I know this, you on the other hand can only speculate as you are not in possession of the facts and your wishful thinking, the misplaced hope that the situation is not as I describe, is prevalent with certain victims.
No, not incorrect. I sense, maybe incorrectly but probably not, that I am being referred to as a victim. A victim, I am not!!! I, overcame and surpassed, thank you very much. My observations are not based on speculation, a lack of factual evidence or wishful thinking. They are based in experience, observations, fact and reality. There is no misplaced hope. I simply have a talent for reading the past. Individuals who go supernova, by it’s very definition usurp your power and authority. If no one has ever done so to you, then you have never witnessed a fully informed supernova. Period. You, and all your kind, cower from it, I have personally watched it, even from among the greater school of your kind, though admittedly I have seen it much more from the mid-ranger. I try to avoid greaters, “most” of the time. Your ability to control and dominate only exists when an informed supernova, is not present. Admittedly, you could experience an uninformed, more instinctual supernova but that is not what I am referring to. An informed supernova can bounce your foolishness off like swatting bugs and wound you with truth, repeatedly and in such a way that makes you cringe at their very presence!!!
Sure you have.
It Depends,
I find this conversation utterly interesting.
Your comments are extensive and cover many issues. You have invested a lot of effort in them.
The Supernova event.
You state:
“ I have personally watched it, even from among the greater school of your kind, though admittedly I have seen it much more from the mid-ranger.”
“….An informed supernova can bounce your foolishness off like swatting bugs and wound you with truth, repeatedly …”
It would very interesting if you , who has witnessed this event could give a detailed factual description of the same in particular with one of the Greater school.
1. How do you know the narcissist involved was a Greater?
2. Was it within a romantic , professional or social entanglement?
3. Who were the persons involved? You or someone you know?
4. How ,when , where etc. did it happen?
5.How did this informed”(?) SuperNova manifest and the difference in impact according to you with an “uninformed” one ?
It would be very insightful if you could give a concrete example .
Many times, the conclusions we arrive to, regardless of how much we WANT them to be valid, unfortunately turn to be invalid( in error) when your reasoning and arguments are based on a false premise.
It becomes then a fallacy: false premise fallacy.
However if you could contribute with a concrete ,detailed ,factual example of the Supernova event that you have witnessed, may definitely change the validity of your arguments and conclusions.
I will have time to answer this fully, tomorrow and hope I can contribute to a more detailed understanding. Thank you for inquiring!!! I think if it were better understood, it would be more useful to empaths and co-dependents.
SuperXena
1. How do you know the narcissist involved was a Greater?
2. Was it within a romantic , professional or social entanglement?
3. Who were the persons involved? You or someone you know?
4. How ,when , where etc. did it happen?
5.How did this informed”(?) SuperNova manifest and the difference in impact according to you with an “uninformed” one ?
1. The one greater I had in a relationship was highly intelligent, devastatingly charming to everyone, most of the time, his income and lifestyle would be considered affluent, he owned a dive resort in the cayman islands, just as a starter. This along with his incredible level of malicious and highly complex and calculative manipulations, along with his extensive fuel sources and flying monkeys, leads me to believe he was a greater.
2. I have entangled with one greater in a relationship. I have entangled with other greaters on both a professional and social level.
3. Persons involved in the example I will give in number five were me and a greater narcissist (for basically the same reasons I stated in number 1) that I knew professionally who was attacking, literally for no reason, one of his “subordinates,” one of the kindest gentlemen I have ever known.
4. See number 5
5. An uninformed supernova would only instinctively try to protect the nice worker. I spent every night scheming and planning my next line of protective attack. I’d find reasons to say things like, wow, you are being really rude to so and so, that makes you look like a bad person. And walk away. I explained his triangulation of others people, against the nice man, to other normal and empathic people who were already aware that the situation existed but my mentioning it gave them “courage” to start acting more disapproving of what was going on. I wrote up a fake disciplinary report, detailing the man’s abuse and anonymously left a copy on his desk for anyone to see. These things and many more I did to stop his abuse. In the end, he became Mr. Nice Guy to the nice man he hated and a few months later the nice man transferred to a better company that I recommended to him and put in a good word for him. The greater avoided me like the plague with an occasional bout of trying to get me fired that I always twisted back over on him, making him look bad. He was bad. The nature of my work back then required frequent location changes so I didn’t have to put up with his butt for long!
Hope this helps!!!
It Depends,
Thank you for sharing your experiences, perspective and opinions.
Your comments are a clear-cut example of logical fallacy namely : circular reasoning.
You are assuming that the statements and conclusions you arrive to are objective truths. They are not because your arguments are based solely on your own experience and perspective NOT on facts. That reasoning makes your conclusions faulty and invalid as objective truths because they are based only on your own perspective .
In other words: what you are presenting as to be true is just your opinion (a subjective truth) that is just valid for you but not for everyone.
Just to remind you( I have posted this before):
“An objective truth : is independent of subject. This falls under the scientific analysis to identify an object, measure, quantify or qualify for various parameters & confirm the result, which is a reality to the given circumstances, place & time. It allows the facts to speak for themselves.
Objective information is meant to be completely unbiased & can be described without any ambiguity. This is accepted without any controversy & confrontation & has concurrence with others, if the method is adapted in testing & analyzing & accepted by all. This may also involve people to work together & share knowledge & the process. It is not easy to argue or disapprove, if all norms are strictly followed”.( B.V. Baradajan)
A subjective truth :
It falls under one’s personal impressions, feelings, views or opinions, rather than external facts. It cannot be subjected to scientific analysis or observation & there is no way to confirm affirmatively or refer to any established norms, in which case controversy is bound to exist. The truth one believes is dependent on one’s knowledge, understanding & experience. It may or may not be true & chances for hurting or disapproving other’s feelings are more & things may remain controversial. It can consist statement of judgment, assumption, belief, suspicion or rumor.”( B.V. Baradajan)
As for you hoping that your opinions help, well yes, they do : to exemplify fallacies and circular faulty reasoning.
Further more, you are contradicting yourself and bringing yourself down your own arguments .
Quoting some of your contradictory arguments:
“Going to “war” with their kind, is the most effective way that I know to do this.”
And next contradicting yourself by writing:
“Precisely!!! I will add, replying to SuperXena, I would NEVER do this in a romantic relationship. Too dangerous. Especially with a greater.”
With this, I rest my case with you. Your way of reasoning does not represent an intellectual challenge to me anymore.
Slam. Dunk.
Superxena
Well said.
Thank you Twilight.
Your welcome Superxena.
SuperXena,
Perfectly said! Love it.
Thank you Mercy!
SuperXena
You are most definitely entitled to your opinions. Those who can follow logical reasoning in a linear world view and experienced manner, may differ slightly in their conclusions of fact. Thank you for your input.
* Just adding:
It Depends,
As far as I know and the way I had experienced it myself, the SuperNova is instinctive , triggered as a defence mechanism.It is not a calculated behaviour. Now I am aware of what it is but that does not mean that is a premeditated or calculated behaviour although I can identify it now when it happens.
So I do not really agree with you with the existence of an “informed” SuperNova.
It may be another case of people confusing the event that is the Supernova with a class of Empath, which of course it is not.
Yes, Narcangel. It seems such to be the case: confusing Superempath (a school of empath) with SuperNova ( an event).
Something that brings me to the idea that a glossary ( Tudorglossar?) with the most important terms/concepts with a succint,”short” definition would be very useful.
That would make things easier for newcomers….
SuperXena
Yes, and available on the menu bar next to the About section to assist new readers. There is nothing more frustrating than having enthusiasm but then not understanding what people are talking about when the abbreviations are used. Even then it takes awhile to get them down. But I understand he is but one person trying to juggle all of this. I wonder if someone already has such a glossary that could be submitted for possible approval and posting by HG.
HG
Is this something you would consider?
It is.
NA
Sometimes, I will put the translation in parenthesis but I have gotten quite lazy with that. I will start doing it again.
F.R.E.E., IPSS, IPPS, CANIPSS and NoFuc all come up if they are put in the search function, however, many newcomers are not used that in the beginning.
Narcangel,
Good idea!
Actually ,I have one of my own: a “Tudorian”glossary booklet but is very, very far from being complete.
I started it most as a necessity when I first got here. I was lost with all the new terms ,concepts and acronyms. Now it is developing more into a compendium:)
It has been though a very effective learning technique. Succinct /short definitions of terms and concepts.
SuperXena
Would you be willing to submit what you do have to HG for review and possible post/share for others? I would gladly, had I written anything down.
Of course I would!
Good idea NarcAngel.
Actually ,I have one of my own: a “Tudorian”glossary booklet but is very, very far from being complete.
I started it most as a necessity **when I first got here. I was lost with all the new terms ,concepts and acronyms. Now it is developing more into a compendium:)
It has been though a very effective learning technique. Succinct /short definitions of terms and concepts.
** now I am doing it mostly motivated by intellectual curiosity.
It would be great if HG helps us to clarify this. I do not think the supernova’s behavior is instictive, at least not all of the times. It can be informed (after reading books and articles and learning about narcissism), so it is rationalized and therefore, calculated. The main issue is the empath’s nature that would prevent her to sustain this behavior for a long time, specially if it is hurtful, and there is a big chance that she moves away or that the narcissist wins (he will be able to wait and come back).
Hello Alessa,
I understand where you are coming from.
I know you are adressing your inquiry to HG . I just want to clarify why I understand the SuperNova phenomenon as an instinctive phenomenon (as it is described in this post) .
Phenomenon I can recognise and relate to during my entanglement with a narcissist and when I was not aware of what( who) I was dealing with.
I believe we are speaking about two different scenarios here:
1. An educated weaponised empath ( regardless which school he/she belongs to) that thanks to the knowledge acquired realises that she/he is entangled with a narcissist :
a) who decides to GOSO ( get out and stay out) with a robust NC ( no contact). In this case( and that should invariably be the case: to GOSO) there is no need for a deliberate calculated application of the narcissistic traits to wound the narcissist. Why would the empath need to do so if she/he has already escaped and moved on?
Unless of course we are talking about a deliberate revenge campaign against the narcissist with the aim of “destroying” him .Topics that are covered here:
..https://narcsite.com/2018/02/05/the-pursuit-of-revenge-6/
Book : Revenge .How to Beat the Narcissist
Revenge is a completely different issue than the Supernova event described here.
b) who has to continue to engage with the narc due to i.ex. children. The best way to go in this case is the minimum contact as possible without any emotional response.The deliberate application of narc traits would be fruitless and contra productive and would just be providing negative fuel. Best way to go here is to give the minimum fuel as possible, preferably just positive fuel or ignore.
2. The SuperNova phenomenon (OBS: not a person but an event)
-occurs within the Superempath school who is the group that has more predominant narc traits than the others
-occurs when the Superempath is entangled with a narcissist not being aware of who/what she/he is dealing with.
– occurs when the narcissistic traits are triggered and deployed as a RESPONSE /defence /protective mechanism .
A calculated premeditated application ( notice : not deployment as when triggered) of narcissistic traits to deliberate wound the narcissist ( not for protection purposes) would imply a degree of malice( deliberately hurt another person ) . A streak that I believe is not present in the nature of the empath per se.
Thank you for sharing your observations and experiences on the SE/SuperNova phenomenon, SuperXena! Your comments are really interesting to read and I enjoy reading them.
I do not associate myself with the SE school or any label per se at present, thus I cannot share from experience and my thoughts represent a more neutral view, but I believe there is some truth to what you have written about the SuperNova that occurs as a protective mechanism/as a response to the narcissist’s machinations. Initially, I understood the phenomenon differently which does not negate your experience or opinion in any sense; it might be a matter of different interpretation and experience. When re-reading, I got the impression that both notions might coexist so I wanted to share my thoughts.
I associate the specific terms HG uses to describe this phenomenon with clear-cut, deliberate action in that the SE reaches a “critical point” where she decides that enough is enough and “dims” her empathic traits, thus “allows” her narcissistic traits to become more prominent.
She might be unaware of ‘what’ or who her counterpart actually is in terms of putting a label onto his attitude but she might, after having experienced sustained abuse and being the highly empathic and intelligent person she is, be very well aware of the various facets of machinations and malicious manipulations that have been repeatedly used against her and that have consistently and repeatedly violated her boundaries. Being a long-standing and loyal intimate companion to the narcissist, she has had sufficient time to observe his various manipulations and she has „learned to effect them“. ‘Learning to effect something’ is not necessarily based on malicious intent but I interpret the expression as an element of ‘calculation’ as in the SE weaponising herself and building a ‘fortress’ against the constant erosion of boundaries and violation of her trust, her values, her confidence and self-worth.
From what I have read and what you have further provided as part of your experience, I believe that both notions might very well coexist. Her attitude, the event of the SuperNova, might not be calculated action per se in the sense of strategically schemed and plotted revenge with a clear malicious intent. Yet, she is „applying“ her narcissistic traits – I interpret that as a deliberate application – to „strike back“ until she is “satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater” while at the same time being able to keep those narcissistic traits under sufficient control.
I believe her actions can be regarded as a means of protection, based on an ‘instinctive’ response that is triggered, and with the intent to wound the narcissist (revenge used as a short-term tactic, not strategy) at that critical point. As far as I understood, her decision to fight back, with a clear risk of wounding the narcissist, is not based on maliciousness or a sadistic streak but on the essential need to put the narcissist in his place, to regain her power and to establish a firm and unshakable boundary.
So again, of course, it might be a matter of different interpretation here.
Hello saskia,
Thank you for your comments and for sharing your perspective. I believe you make valid points.
This event manifests differently from person to person but in one way or the other we who have experienced it can relate to it. I have added some comments to Alessa as well related to this topic if you feel like reading them.
“From what I have read and what you have further provided as part of your experience, I believe that both notions might very well coexist. Her attitude, the event of the SuperNova, might not be calculated action per se in the sense of strategically schemed and plotted revenge with a clear malicious intent. “ : AGREED
I seem to have missed this post twice since I have been on here!! How is that possible? In any case, the description fits my situation pretty well, though it seems to be more about IPPS than IPSS and maybe MRN had some Greater traits (UMRN).
Can this apply to SIPSS too, HG? (Or maybe to CIPPS, which I might have been at various points.) How does an IPSS Supernova differ from an IPPS Supernova? In my case, I did not stay. Maybe that is the difference? The IPPS is much more entangled and thus would find it much harder to leave?
SuperXena, Don’t you think the Supernova can be a mix of instinctive and calculated/informed? I think it was in my case (if I am reading this all correctly and can apply it to myself). I knew what I felt (instinctive) but only partly why I felt that way (informed). I knew what I had to do (instinctive) but not how to do it (informed). At the very end, I knew what he was because I had found this site (informed), and I still lashed out more because of my anger (instinct).
Mercy, maybe this would be a good one for your daughter to read? That way she can come to understand first that it is a dynamic and then what the different types are.
Yes it can apply, the response will be similar.
Admittedly, there are many who do it out of instinct. I however, use it coldly, cunningly when necessary, manipulatively, intentionally, often and as ruthlessly as possible. No regrets. A mirror for them to look at while they are abusing and hurting innocent people.
It Depends
You remind me of ED, are you related?
SuperXena
No confusion. I use “supernova” as the description of an event and as an action verb. As in, the act of “going supernova” all over their butts. 🙂 Hope this clarifies!
Tudor
All laughing aside but only for a moment, why do you leave it to all to me to try to correct their wrong thinking? Obviously they lap at your illusion and “some of them” trust your illusions more than informed truth, as you are “well aware.” As a professional claiming to want to weaponize empaths, you should tell both the good folks who genuinely don’t understand and the silly flying monkeys, at the very least, what you know to be true instead of watching them flail around as such… Very low class of you!!! I expected better!
Dang it, I almost thought I was losing my touch. Instead of “I should be intelligent enough to know,” I was expecting….”Wouldn’t you like to know?” Maybe you are not as keen as I give you credit? 🙂 Kisses
“But aren’t you so intelligent you should be able to work it out yourself? “
Of course I know the answer, why else would I have asked the question the way I did, dear? Kisses
In General
As far as touting my own intelligence, I try to be humble and not do so. However, when someone challenges my intellectual capability, I will defend it at times and at other times, I will not. Depending on the situation, I do not feel I “must” do this but I will do so in order to give others a chance to make up their own mind. The United States military has an intelligence test, that, at 18 years old, listed me in the top 1% of males and females in all categories tested. I was handed the “job” book and told I could choose any career I wanted and was encouraged to choose being a nuclear scientist with the incentive of a $45,000 sign on bonus and a shortened “term,” of two or three years, I forget which. They chased me around every week, for a year, so incessantly, they almost caused me to lose my job! So, judge for yourselves my assertions, honesty and general intelligence.
It Depends,
You speak with such conviction. I would be interested to hear facts to back up your experiences. The reason I keep coming back to this site is because HG has gained my trust by being consistently truthful and factual in his writings. He also allows all of us a right to our opinion as you know. From what I’ve seen in the last few days he has allowed you your opinion even though at times it’s clear you have a lot of anger toward the author. It is because of his consistency, factual content and transparency on this subject that I have no problems giving HG, a narcissist, the respect that he deserves.
Thank you Mercy, readers do not have to like me, but I expect them to recognise my accuracy and consistency.
Your are welcome HG. Your work speaks for itself and it’s appreciated by most of your readers.
Indeed it is and I appreciate most of my readers.
I will address this with facts tomorrow. I usually avoid stories of my experience for personal reasons but I will do so for those who are truly curious. Glad you are curious and I hope to add to the discussion in some small way. I have no hatred or anger towards the author at all. I “spank him” when he is intellectually incorrect, whether intentional or otherwise. His readers deserve the best and not the half-truths that sometimes slip through. An example being when he claims empaths are mirroring narcissists. Complete non-sense!!! I will admit when he is brilliant and call him out when his material is sub-par. I appreciate the fact that he lets my comments through and also am fully aware that many of his kind do not have this level of self-control. I also know, in the end, when I am right and he is wrong, as a narcissist, he is going to reject this and try to get control of things. It’s what they do. LOL
More grist to the mill.
It Depends
HG is a narcissist who writes about narcissism. Are you saying that you are either a greater narcissist or judge than he is in writing about his condition? in that you are able to determine:
When his material is sub- par
When he is intellectually incorrect
That you are right and he is wrong
That he is lying in his last sentence when he is writing it from his perspective.
I understand you may have opposing opinions as we all do on occasion, and those are welcome, but to suggest that you are better able to determine these things that he offers from his point of view suggests some magical thinking on your part and your posts lose traction. We (the readers) can (and do) decide what we will and will not accept as our truth in what he writes, but we do not negate or disregard what he has to offer as his truth or perspective because it is precisely that which teaches us what we need to know about his kind and dealing with them.
Very well put.
It Depends,
I’m sure your experience will add to the discussion. Many of us learn from each other’s experiences and I speak the truth when I say I’m curious.
“Intellectually incorrect”? I do not understand this. I would argue that his intellect, or his ability to aquire knowledge on the subject of narcissism speaks for itself in his writings.
I don’t know which article you are referring to in your example of empaths mirroring the narcissist but you yourself praise HG for this article of the Super Empath. “I have a great deal of appreciation for this insightful article. A LOT! No other writer that I know of, explains and gives a name to this occurrence in such a clear, correct and concise fashion.”
It is written that during the supernova event the super empath’s narcissist traits shine. “This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind”
Take a look at the last sentence. One could argue that the super empath is mirroring the narcissist by using manipulation against them, learned from them.
I thought my first silent treatment would kill me. I survived it and learned to use this most painful form of manipulation against him. I mirrored my narcissist behavior. That is just an example of a FACT in my experiences and there is more.
Another example of mirroring the narcissist would be black and white thinking which I see alot of in your responses.
HG – “Incorrect. Nobody has usurped my power…”
It Depends – “No, not incorrect…”
Mirroring? One could argue.
Maybe you are not angry at the author and it is just your delivery that makes it seem that way. Your statements are delivered in a way that you know the truth, end if discussion. Some of these truths that you claim you know can only be confirmed by one person, HG. He is the only one that knows if someone has unsurped him, he is the only one that knows if he has encountered a Super Empath in Supernova mode. These are things you cannot know and by stating that you do makes everything else you say questionable.
All of this is just my opinion since I tend to linger in gray thinking and welcome challenge and different prospectives. I have found that taking in others opinions has given me the ability to learn and apply what I’ve learned to my situation.
Very well put.
Thank you HG.
Honestly, something seems a bit off here. How can you claim to be victorious over dysfunction when you “rescued” your boyfriend from an abusive narcissistic relationship? Knowledge tells you that person is damaged and nowhere near recovered. Entering into a relationship whereby you had to extract someone from it then having that individual defer responsibility of dealing with the ex to you, screams of dysfunctional. I’m sorry it just does. When I read all that all kinds of flags and alarms started going off. My first thought a Codepebdent has snagged another Narc or a Narc has snagged another Codependent.
Are Codepebdents so damaged they can’t have a normal relationship? Some maybe. We are capable of relationships with normals we just tend to tire of them. But I can tell you getting romantically involved with a Codepebdent whereby you are pulling them away by “educating” them on Narcisssism well I bet that won’t turn out well. If you know anything about codependency, you know they will drift back to the Narc in time either to the old one or a new one will enter the picture
Sorry if I sound harsh here perhaps I don’t know the whole story but something seems off with the situation.
Personally, I have found everything HG has written pretty darn accurate. I should know I’ve been ensnared 3 freakin times by 2 Narcs
It depends on
From what information of read here, this likely isn’t gonna go well for you. Do you really think you and your boyfriend are going to ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after cause he’s a kind loving Codep? He’s been in highly addictive dysfunctional relationship where both partners become addicted to one another and you think now because he’s met you and feels all wonderful for awhile that the addiction is gone? I assure you it isn’t. She will be back for him and I’d lay money he goes right back. How do I know this? I am a diagnosed Codepebdent and yes he came back years later and yes I was fully prepared to go back.
I remember the shrink saying Lori this guy is coming back. I said on no he isn’t. He’s getting married. Shrink says no Lori he isn’t getting married there will be no wedding. I’ll bet my practice he contacts you again. Guess what ? He contacted me again.
When I said, intellectually incorrect, the specific article I was thinking of was called, “Obsessed where he implies that empaths are “mirroring” narcs rather than an empath being genuine in their love and affection. I agree with what you have said here and I ABSOLUTELY engage in mirroring. It is a tactic of both defense and offense, depending on the situation. But, usually, only “self-aware” empaths who are also “aware” of the tactics of the narcs, use the mirroring technique. It can be used instinctually but often, repeated and strategical mirroring, is usually a “war” tactic. LOL Not angry but I am full of passion!!! I know what I know by experience and extensive studying of their behaviors as well as my own and my kind. I do not write to convince people of my view although I do try to be clear and organized with my writing. I write to contribute to the understanding of narcissists and their systems. Anyone is welcome to believe me or not due to the logical reasoning (or not) of my assertions. Trust me, I get a great deal of satisfaction reading the different outlooks, opinions and experiences here. I am also free to reject what does not fit with my experience and study but it doesn’t make the reading, any less enjoyable for me. I hope you find this freedom being both reader and writer, our dance, as enjoyable as I do. Whether Tudor has ever had his power usurped by anyone, I do not know. Do you think he would admit it? Grin…What I do know is the power over narcissists, contained within the supernova because of my use of it. What I appreciate is the “label” that Tudor came up with to describe what I was doing. “Labels” the ability to call something by a solid descriptive name, is priceless to a word nerd like myself. Believe me, I find his work very useful at times. I give the devil his due. 🙂 As far as some of my claims can only be confirmed by one person….HG…. hahahhahahaha….that one was funny!!! Anyone who uses supernova a lot could confirm or deny the validity of my words.
MERCY
Gonna be a long one. Apologies to those who aren’t interested in long speeches. To clarify something I said yesterday, although I have no hatred or anger toward the author here, I do not like or respect narcissists in general. I find them to be foul, parasitic and pathetic little creatures whose presence is always trying to suck the life out of everyone else in the room. Being able to understand them and be in control of your “supernova” abilities is like a cool super power that allows you to take swats at them like the pests they are and help other people escape them. Although I am indulging in a little creative writing when calling it a super power, if you have the ability to harness it, it can be honed and improved to a great extent, over time and with practice.
When a narcissist and expecially the greater attacks you, they will do so, usually, using some form of fear. Fear of a bad reputation because of their lies, fear of losing your job, fear of being guilty of being a bad person, fear of being caged in a jail because of their deceit and manipulations, It is our own fears that narcissists use against us and the greaters tend to do this (although I realize the sliding scale is there) in a much more calculating and malicious way. The key to supernova and especially honing the supernova ability, is when you are able to destroy your own fears. Easier said than done but when an empath who is capable of supernova is pushed to a certain point, fear begins to be replaced by righteously held anger that is full of logic and reason. As the anger subsides, it tends to ebb and flow a bit, what you are left with is logical reasoning mixed with an absence of fear. Combine this with a full understanding of what narcissists are and how they behave and you basically have an empath, impervious to their control and influence who can then begin honing their skills into repeated intentional rounds of supernova. For example, I don’t mind spending time in jail because I took their primary fuel source from them and in retribution, they planted drugs in my vehicle. (This one hasn’t happened yet but I’ve experienced varies “punishments” for using my supernova on powerful people.) Some will try to lure you into their web with their powerful charm because they find you a strange curiosity that they want to have a closer look at. To try to explain the curiosity, it’s kinda like I am similar to an animal in that I live in the moment. You can beat me with a stick and it will hurt me, in that moment but you can’t threaten to beat me with a stick and make me act the way you want because I am afraid of possible future pain. My brain is rewired from what it once was and even I find it strange, at times.
Even though I am not religious, I believe in, love and have complete trust and faith in my Creator. I do not believe that any narcissist has the ability to put me into a situation that is not allowed, for a purpose, by that Creator. I have discovered that everything in my life ALWAYS turns out good even if it might “look” bad, in the moment. It always adds to my happiness in the end. Like anyone, I make mistakes and sometimes regret some way I handled things and such. The difference is my brain rewiring, it is that I do not even fear or become greatly bothered by my mistakes. I just try to do better next time. They are usually never made with bad intent towards good people and I am not bothered at all, when bad and EVIL people get what they deserve. I would never physically or emotionally harm anything, intentionally, that is breathing on this earth, including narcissists. However, the best way to “wound” a narcissist is with truth. And I will use this tool on them as mercilessly and as often as I am able. I enjoy this. To “wound” a narcissist with truth is how you help good people. You can’t help narcissists AND good people. You have to choose. To rescue one of their victims is a devastating blow to them and their evil and I choose to help good people. No remorse, no regrets and no fears!
I am not a predictable person in general. I may go to a store to buy some lettuce and tomatoes and not get home for 8 hours because I got a notion I wanted to sit in the park for an hour and this leads me to chatting it up with a stranger (who is not a victim narcissist) which I find out needs help getting the motor out of his car to work on it. This is just how I am. I might be invited to a Christmas party and stumble on a narcissist in attendance, there is almost always a few running around at such a party and spend the evening generously doling out lavish and true admiration and compliments to everyone but the narcissist. (This ruins their whole night by the way and a lot of times they disappear all together and then nothing but the nice people are left at the party. Yay) I am not predictable because I try to move with the flow of life. I have no set in stone plans and I do not fear the future or death. I just live and try to help others do the same. I might work really hard on some articles here and then not return to it for six months. I go a lot on instinct and I experience a lot of cool synchronicity. Some of the strangest things I do on instinct lead to the most strange and wonderful events and discoveries! My life is happy and full but ONLY because I made myself study and understand the true horror of what narcissists are and how to deal with them. AND, I studied the “systems” built by narcissists, for narcissists. This is why I write about this stuff. Unemotional manipulation of narcissists for the purpose of good people and understanding that is is the greater of their kind that has built this current system, is the key to finding happiness on this earth. The current system was not built by empaths, it was built by and for greater narcissists. That’s why playing the game of life by their rules is not conducive to happiness. The most powerful and intelligent of the greater narcissists know the important knowledge that is carefully secreted away from most of human kind. They have fooled normals and empaths into believing in their “fake” systems. People define themselves more by their “job title” than what they do as people. Narcissist have given people a definition of “success” that only enriches narcissists. They trick people into fearing the future to enrich themselves to a degree that is almost unfathomable. They intentionally built “their definitions of status” into the systems so that “they” could be more “important” and “successful” than “you.” But these things, are only cheap illusions that are meaningless in reality but the only thing a narcissist has to “cling to.” Narcissist must define things by “what they do” because they can and never will, “be” or “exist” in the sense of life itself. There IS another way to live life that is NOT on their terms. And each person must discover that path for themselves because if someone tried to explain the depth and breadth of the illusions, before you “wake up” to them, then your mind would reject it completely. We are deceived at a level that is almost incomprehensible and the process of “waking up” to the false “reality” that has been constructed, is….One Heck of a Ride!!! But don’t forget, the joy of life is found in the journey, not the destination!!!
MERCY
Oh, by the way, to clarify when I said I was not incorrect in my reply to him, I was referring to the discussion in general, not the specific sentence that he had never had his power usurped. Sorry for the original lack of clarity.
Just in case anyone wants to know…Grist is defined two ways. 1) Grain that is ground to make flour. 2) Useful material, especially to back up an argument. If I take that as a backhanded compliment, I would have to admit you were useful with creative metaphors and word play. Is that possible? Or was it just the hum drum boring use variety of veiled sneer? Sincerely curious… 🙂
But aren’t you so intelligent you should be able to work it out yourself?
Mercy
On one more short note of clarity, my assertion is that Tudor has never encountered an “informed” supernova who knew exactly what they are doing and if he has, he would not admit it because in his mind, it would equate to the person being more powerful than him. I do not see him ever admitting to such a thing. Admittedly, I could be wrong about his willingness to be honest. This is why he states that the narcissist will “break off and that there can only be a stalemate for now.” It is not a stalemate. It is the overwhelming power that is wielded by going supernova that makes them run away. It is the power of fearless, emotionless application of pure logic clearly stating the truth of their abuses and such. I have yet to encounter a narcissist who didn’t run away from this as fast as they could. What they want more than anything in the world, is to kill that person and their only alternative, is to run away. Truth about what they really are and do, with no emotion, ignites a malicious, hateful, murderous fury within them and barring they do not kill the person in that anger, they must run from it. BTW, I don’t come into contact with many lessers on a regular basis but I would not use supernova with the lesser and victim varieties and wouldn’t bother wasting the energy on them, there are better ways of manipulating the lessers and victim kinds…lol
Incorrect.
It Depends,
You are wrong and I say that from the point of view of someone who is probably an SE and went supernova on my MRN. He never ‘ran away,’ even during the worst of it. He simply disengaged – went completely flat. We were definitely in a stalemate at the ‘end’ (there is no end, as HG makes clear). Running away would be admitting defeat, which his narcissistic perspective would never allow him to do.
They don’t want to ‘kill that person.’ As HG has said, what good is a dead appliance? They want that person back under their control and they will wait you out/try all sorts of manipulations to make that happen. It might look like running away from your perspective, but that is not what it is. If they were running away, there wouldn’t be such a thing as a hoover, and as we all know, hoovers happen somewhat predictably, no matter how the FR ‘ended’.
It Depends,
“Word nerd” very clever phrase. I like it….as pointed out earlier, supernova is an event not the person itself. You must get these thing right if you want your claim of being more intelligent than HG taken seriously.
NarcAngel
In a word, yes. I have become more intelligent than he and his kind and especially in regards to dealing with them in real life situations. I have learned as all empaths can, to outsmart them. If you regard that to be “magical thinking,” so be it. We are all entitled to our opinions.
You’re not that intelligent as you fail to appreciate the difference between opinion and fact, however it does serve to reinforce the very points which NA and SX have made.
NarcAngel
In regards to whether or not I am a narcissist, I hope the truth is a little plainer for you to see than this question implied. Regardless of what you see, Tudor and his ilk know what I am.
You know when you have accomplished your goal when filthy narcissists hate your guts. They want to destroy what they can not control!!! Supernova is such a cool way of accomplishing this goal!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
I think they always pretty much hate you. I think you’ve accomplished your goal when they finally realize that you are in control and will not give them fuel. Your sustained indifference will eventually lead to them find an easier appliance in which to engage.
As a last closing thought and I will probably begin to move away from the board shortly if I don’t need to explain my stance further for other people who are curious, an empath wielding supernova events, understands that the entire point is to take the emotional energy (fuel) that narcissists have stolen from others by ABUSING them, without their knowledge or consent and give it back to other people. Kinda the “robin hood” scenario. Robbing from the robbers and giving it back to the people. Maybe it’s my “magical thinking” as narcangel puts it but…I like playing dressup and pretending to be robin hood! 🙂 And many people have thanked me for my “magical thinking.” I chuckled at a comment on Twitter yesterday from a recovered empath who knows how to sustain an informed supernova. They said, “I walked though a spiders web and realized I had become a fierce ninja warrior.” All empaths are capable of becoming “ninja warriors!”
Wrong.
Ah, I forgot one other note I was going to make earlier today. I, in my thinking break up greater narcissists into four categories, rather than three. To me, it is a better explanation of reality than Tudor’s application of using only three grades of greater narcissists. If you find it helpful, good, if not, disregard. He defines the greaters as, lower middle greater, middle greater and upper greater. I have one I think of as being at the top, as upper greater elite, maybe upper greater evil would be more useful? Not to be confused with “his” idea of “elite” as a picture of the combination of somatic and cerebral. This was the root cause of the earlier misunderstanding that I did not point out at the time. No one has yet, “officially” named what I think of as the upper greater elite and so the term elite (because this is what they consider themselves to be) could be confusing, if you don’t realize how I am using it, not as a school or cadre but a separate descriptive term. I wish he would make the distinction in his writtings. There is a malevolent level, in my opinion, above the upper greater.
And dig some more.
It depends on
Something totally doesn’t add up here. So let me understand, you were in a narc relationship and now you are with a Codepebdent that you have had to “rescue” anc “educate” does that seem. Does that seem healthy to you? I’m a Codep and I can tell you it sure doesn’t to me. You seem to be asserting that you know all about Codependency and Narcussm yet you are neither ? But seem to be telling us what we are and what we feel. I’m sorry I don’t think so. Personally, I know exsctly what narcissism and codeoendcy are. I have been in therapy and have been diagnosed some 8 years now. Even with all that I still don’t know everything to know and neither can a therapist. They come from s clinical perspective not s practical one.That’s why I come here. I have no idea how an “non” could could supposedly have such expert knowledge on disorders you don’t have. I’m sorry I don’t get that
Yep something is way way off. Because I’m a hyper intuitive Codep my radar and alarms are going off here
It Depends,
I have to start by saying that I have been having an off week due to lots of stuff to include a hoover that surprised me by how it went. I mention this to clarify the mindset of which I have been reading the posts and with which I am responding, i.e emotional versus logical.
Your postings have definitely been eye catching. I will admit that there has been an aspect I have liked about the style of your postings. I realize it is the confidence and apparent strong internal strength that comes across.
It sounds like you have had many connections with narcissists. You may have done other research, outside of your personal experiences, about the subject. I know I have read and heard a lot, outside this blog, and was left with more questions. I did understand the concept of “no contact, ” but we have established that I have purposely chosen to not apply that one (right, wrong, or indifferent). My concern, though, in what I read from your posts happens to connect to the same qualities that I liked: the confidence and the strong internal strength. Those two qualities can cause some issues when they are not applied in the best possible way. I am not saying that is what you are doing, as I only know what I read in the emotional state of which I am. What it appears to me is that a lot of what you do and say is based on your belief of the level of knowledge you have regarding narcissism. As narcissism is relatively underestimated in society and in psychology, I will assume a lot of your knowledge is based on your personal experiences. I too get to spend a lot of time with people who I assume are narcissists, both personally and professionally. What I remember, from all my interactions, is the same lesson I learned as a child: people are unique. There are commonalities, but there is no one-size- fits-all for anyone, even with the same possible diagnosis (or in same school or cadre). This includes for empaths as well. HG provides overarching information but he is quick to say that some answers will need to occur through consultation as he understands that sometimes “the devil is in the details” (please note I am not calling anyone or narcissism “devils”).
Regardless of how much one knows, other people and events can change or expand the knowledge as no one knows it all. For example, HG started a blog based on his knowledge of the subject. Since the blog and therapy, I think I read somewhere (I can be wrong and am sorry, HG, if I am), that his knowledge in certain aspects has expanded. Although you seem confident in your knowledge, I am assuming that you are still working to expand your knowledge and thus your interest in this blog. Please remember: Knowledge is good; knowledge is powerful; knowledge is dangerous when incorrectly applied. Please be careful! I don’t know you but want you (as well as everyone else) to stay safe mentally, emotionally, and physically!
LOL, Lori, I was already placed on “Hierarchy Notice” days ago on another post and gave up then.
Lori
As far as a bored, broken and damaged co-dependent goes, you should have seen his well educated and informed self go unemotional supernova ninja on her butt the few times she managed to breech our peaceful no contact. He was having fun and it was most impressive. So, make your own conclusions but I suggest they aren’t based on facts or experiences of seeing a weaponized and informed co-dependent in action! 🙂
Lori
Will we ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after. Of course. Easy enough when his gal is far superior and more powerful than his ex’s used up…manipulations and deceits that he realizes she loves to spread around town, here lately. And he is so loving, intelligent, handsome, loyal, attentive and fun, I could never tire of having him around!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
MERCY
It Depends,
“Word nerd” very clever phrase. I like it….as pointed out earlier, supernova is an event not the person itself. You must get these thing right if you want your claim of being more intelligent than HG taken seriously.
I will use this constructive criticism to spur me on to do much better in the future, cause I like you… LOL Much appreciation and thanks over our interactions and even your honest criticisms, they make me do better. Consider me intellectually, spanked. LOL
Getting There.
Much appreciation on your honest and heartfelt observations. And yes, I am always always always, learning, dissecting and expanding my knowledge base. I even get surprised every once in awhile! LOL For instance, my co-dependent boyfriend who is going to leave me for his narcissist ex, at any moment, managed to shock me this weekend when he asked me to marry him. Grin. Yes, I have a lot of willful interactions with narcissists. And I chuckle every time, I see Tudor post…”Incorrect.” His kind, if he is as self-aware as he claims, HATE admitting that killing the heart and soul of my kind can backfire on them. They killed me, (in a metaphorical sense) but the problem is, my kind gets resurrected. (Again, in a metaphorical sense) It has happened to others that I have been pleased to meet and swap information with. We learned how to turn the tables on them and their whole dang system. Whereas, we were once slaves to them, we now make them our slaves. This deeply offends their sense of omnipotence. I will give you an example but not a detailed one. There are…secrets…to the trade that I don’t like to announce “publicly” but often share privately with awakened and educated empaths. One narcissist I am currently triangulating and manipulating, owns a charity organization. Narcissists are by nature very stingy and greedy but they will let go of their resources if they can get attention and admiration for doing so. This, is one of their weaknesses you can exploit it in order to get them to, shall we say, be a little more charitable to others. Narcissists are my project in life. I take from them, what they have gotten from others by selfish use and abuse of them and I give it back to the people that have been stolen from. Again, to even admit that my kind, with our abilities even exists, would be tantamount to admitting a more powerful being than themselves roams the earth and their ego finds this next to impossible. :).
HaHaHa, you are below my intelligence and thus not qualified to judge it. Classic narcissist drivel. I disagree with some of your “supposedly” enlightened “facts.” Whether my “opinions” are also “facts” is not determined by you or anyone else. Facts are determined by “reality” and I can have an “opinion” that is based in both “fact” and “reality,” that differs from someone else’s opinion, not based on facts or reality. Reality is the ultimate judge. To disagree with this assertion, is to show your own arrogant ignorance. And regarding the points of others, I have quietly watched this board for a very long time. Some I have a great appreciation for, even if I don’t always agree or engage directly with their comments. Intelligent people “know” they are intelligent and don’t always have to announce it. “Others,” have shown their lack of cognitive ability and general intelligence. I don’t pay much attention to them or your flying monkeys. (One can never convince a fool, dead set in their ignorance, of wisdom. Best not to try.) I find them intellectually challenged, narcissistic (even when not a full blown narcissist) and thus, not worth much of my time unless I feel like swatting them around a bit to save others the hassle of their intended (but not very well executed) abuses. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Twilight,
“It is intention that changes things”
I had posted a comment on this also on this page that got misplaced to somewhere above on this page. This fascinates me and I thank this blog for learning to understand how important the difference is because it gets easier to detect energetically. Has been very obviously to me carrying over effects into daily life.
And yes, regarding being empathic it is recognizable in others by feel of shared experience I would think. Great posts.
Congratulations, It Depends, on your engagement!
Thank you for sharing your example. Please correct me where I am wrong. To me, it sounds like what you are describing is that you try to figure out the narcissist’s facade and use it to advance a different resolution to your feelings of a betterment, as you described like Robin Hood. I am going to ask a blunt question with the goal to not insult anyone with it.
I’m sorry if I do!
I know no one can control another and we are not responsible for the behavior or actions of another adult, so please understand that my intent is not to make anyone feel guilty or anything. I am hoping for clarification and just trying to understand.
If you are doing this to a narcissist who is not your relationship partner, how do you know that your behavior at work or the charity does not end up causing some extra need for fuel/control from someone else to compensate? In other words is it really impacting them in the way you are seeing it or is it having them just find different means to their aims?
I am no expert in narcissists, so please excuse my ignorance. I know that some of my narcissistic coworkers accept my challenges easier than the narcissists with whom I was in a relationship or even just friendship. Also it is my belief, possibly an erroneous one, that my cerebral narcissist ex husband is less likely to do what I assume HG would do to a secondary or tertiary source in most cases of being challenged or wounded.
Maybe the details of which I know you cannot share cover some of my questions and concern for you. Again, congratulations to you both!
It depends on
with all due respect it depends, you have said you are in a relationship with a Codepebdent a likely very damaged one at that. Not to mention you have accepted the delegation of “dealing with the ex narcissist” you do realize that is not a normal or healthy dynamic? He should not be delegating that nor should you be accepting it. That alone suggests that you may not have the command of what you are dealing with. When I read that all kinda of red flags and sirens went off. That screams of some kind of unhealthy dynamic going on
If you are refuting a diagnosed Narc or Codepebdent in favor of your online research that would be a mistake. People suffering from these disorders explain in a much more practical real life manner
K
Your welcome.
Everyone mirrors, it usually is instinctive. It is not just an narcissist thing. Intentions thou is what changes things, consciously or subconsciously.
Mirror touch synesthesia is “rare”. an empath with this sensitivity heightens drastically in comparison with an empath with out this.
Windstorm
I read her book last night for the first time. Still processing what I think. I found most of what she spoke of I have been doing for years now.
Twilight
Same with me on the book. I’ve been doing most of it for years now, too. That’s why I thought it seemed commonsensical. I do regret that there was no one to explain that all to me when I was young and spare me decades of misery while I worked it out for myself.
It Depends
I have been mirroring HG since I have been on narcsite and I mirror people in real life, too, that is what empaths do. I read that empaths have hyper-responsive mirror neurons.
I agree K, this is something I just realized recently.
Mercy
At first I was worried, then I read that empaths did it too.
HG is a machine and narcsite is an extension of him and we can interface and mirror his feelings and thoughts and learn to “Know the Narcissist”.
He isn’t impervious to penetration like my IRL narcissists are.
https://narcsite.com/2016/06/19/impervious-to-penetration/
K and HG, can we learn to do this? Wear our heart and minds on our sleeves less? Should we be concerned with doing so?
K, thanks for the link. It’s very interesting. The ending states that empaths are transparent to the narcissist. I agree that a narcissist with awareness or a small amount of awareness could read our emotions but do you think this is the case with lessers or a mid that is unaware of who he is? I would think that a narcissist that isn’t aware that he doesn’t feels real emotions would have a problem identifying them.
As far as mirroring, I feel like this is something that is useful. It makes us adaptable in many situations. The danger comes when we don’t realize we are doing this. At that point we risk losing a sense of self.
Mercy
Empaths are very transparent because we are trusting, decent and honest. Even though lessers and midrangers lack awareness they are very aware of our emotions; it is all instinct. They know every weakness/strength and how to use it to their advantage to get fuel.
During library, I see the narcissistic children watch others so they learn to mirror emotions; they also watch me and the teacher interact. They know exactly what to do because they are wired to be predators, even the lesser children know enough to watch.
Thanks for that link, K! I had not seen that one before. I always knew when MRN was ‘off’ – even from a long distance – though I did not necessarily know why. He was mostly impenetrable, except the few times that his mask slipped. I saw it slip early on and I goaded him a lot to make it slip again but he generally resisted. Their control freakishness extends to themselves.
My pleasure SMH
It made my MMRN uncomfortable when I stared at him. I think he said: It is like you are trying to get inside me. And I replied: I am just trying to understand how you think.
He was a control freak, too, and now I understand why.
K
https://drjudithorloff.com/the-new-science-of-empathy-and-empaths/
Thanks for the link Twilight
Empaths and narcissists both mirror; it is instinct, however, our motives are different, I think.
I never heard of the term: mirror-touch synesthesia, people can actually feel the emotions and sensations of others in their own bodies as if these were their own.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Twilight
Thanks for putting the link to the Judy Orloff book. I downloaded it and am finding it really interesting. Seems very commonsensical.
I feel this way too K. And the only thing IRL that saves my butt is disengagement. I seek happiness, it is the only way to go. I feel certain I’ve done this SN thing, worst experience of my life, that and continually being snowed. My ability to get sucked in is frightening in some ways, I mentioned elsewhere that I also hypnotize easily, which I think is related. I can work around that well with tools though I think, but it takes focused effort.
nunya biz
Mirroring just comes naturally and if you aren’t careful you will find yourself ensnared yet again. Disengagement is always the way to go.
Being an empath is similar to being a lighthouse, we offer light, hope and sanctuary and continually draw these personality types towards us and it takes effort to recognize and repel them. Just keep working around it and be vigilant. Narcissists are everywhere.
You comment made me go do some scientific research on what you mentioned. Thank you very much for your input!!! More appreciated than you know! 🙂 🙂 🙂
K
He isn’t impervious to penetration. 🙂 🙂 🙂 Grins Exactly!!!!!!!!!
K, yes, very well said. My vigilance is up and I am grateful.
I mentioned on another post recently about perceiving someone as narcissistic and later I believe I was wrong about that perception. That makes me happy, no big deal. Otherwise though I have been effectively increasing my ability to set up the right boundaries early on. I can now see the dark tunnel things turn down very quickly. The feeling of being “BURIED” HG wrote about. Suffocated.
I think it comes in two ways…
1. having flaws exaggerated by someone who can only feel ok if they are superior to all by association and feel threatened by weakness
2. having flaws coddled by someone who can’t feel ok if you are succeeding (free)
I am watching out for these feelings creeping up.
Avoiding feeeeeeding. Sometimes I think diversion is helpful.
Positive note- I have so much gratitude for true (genuine) empathy in people, it is the most amazing thing.
Ugh, K, I think WordPress is going to misplace my comment again, I wrote more that will likely be somewhere else on the page.
And as far as all your legacy and accomplishments, shall I remind you that without the power of empaths, to (fuel) you with their very alive emotional energies, you and your kind, for all intents and purposes, “dead selves” could not have accomplished anything much more that a greeter at Walmart such would have been your level of despair and depression having to face your own own nastiness without them holding up your construct. Your kind are NOTHING without empaths!!!
Dear It Depends,
This thread with your comments, along with everyone else’s, is very interesting. Thank you for all your observations. I can see that you feel very strongly about this subject and that you must have been involved with quite a few narcissists because you speak with conviction and also knowledge about what you have experienced. I can relate to much of what you say.
I can also relate to the way you address HG Tudor. A while ago, I also felt the same way. I wanted to rally against him and tell him what I thought of him and all narcissists. That they are wrong and bad and that their actions will ultimately fail. So in that respect, I feel like I know where you’re coming from.
The thing is that HG is in a unique position with this blog compared to other narcissists. There are two sides of the coin when it comes to HG.
Yes, he is a narcissist and what he does while wearing his “real life” narcissist hat is not something to praise or support.
On the other side of the coin though, he is helping many people to learn and gain awareness and to change their thinking in order to better understand themselves and become more knowledgeable and ultimately less susceptible to all that is bad and wrong with narcissists.
Perhaps it will help you to try and balance both sides of this same coin in your own mind.
In my own case, HG has helped me a great deal and all the commentary on this blog (including yours, by the way) has helped me to learn and understand and have more self-knowledge and self-control.
So, ultimately, I think this blog is worth a lot to many people and promotes greater knowledge and understanding.
Perhaps if you allowed this aspect to enter your way of thinking, it would bring you more inner-peace and it would enable you to see that we don’t have to prove each other right or wrong or cast blame in either direction in order to gain greater awareness.
Hi HG, now I understand a lot more… what kind of things does the supernova do? What kind of things would she do to make things dificult and miserable to the narcissits? Since she is an empath… i guess nothing to hurt, maybe to punish and especially to establish limits (maybe making it more difficult to see him)… examples??
Assert boundaries, refuse to engage in certain behaviours, resist manipulations, threaten exposure.
Thanks HG. I guess I became an empathic supernova. Long ago I asked you if it was possible to turn into a narcissist and you answered something that my narcissist traits became more visible. At some point I thought I was becoming one of your kind (the strange thing was that it was just with the narcissist). And now it is hapenning with the most important narcissists in my life with whom it is impossible to end the relationship.
Alessa escape!
Amanda SNapchat, oh yes!!!!
Although I am not a religious person, most would find me an extremely spiritual one and I can find truth in any writing, including the religious or apocryphal religious. I came across this old description of narcissists and descriptions of the “supernova” event and was astounded at it’s simple beauty in describing narcissists and how they think and act along with what a supernova is. I share it here with you, do with it as you will. It is from the Book of Wisdom…
1:15 (For righteousness is immortal:)
1:16 But ungodly men with their works and words called it to them: (death) for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.
2:1 For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
2:2 For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:
2:3 Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
2:4 And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.
2:5 For our time is a very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.
2:6 Come on therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.
2:7 Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:
2:8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:
2:9 Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion, and our lot is this.
2:10 Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.
2:11 Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth.
2:12 Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.
2:13 He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord.
2:14 He was made to reprove our thoughts.
2:15 He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, his ways are of another fashion.
2:16 We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.
2:17 Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.
2:18 For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.
2:19 Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.
2:20 Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
2:21 Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.
2:22 As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
2:23 For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.
2:24 Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.
3:1 But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them.
3:2 In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure is taken for misery,
3:3 And their going from us to be utter destruction: but they are in peace.
3:4 For though they be punished in the sight of men, yet is their hope full of immortality.
3:5 And having been a little chastised, they shall be greatly rewarded: for God proved them, and found them worthy for himself.
3:6 As gold in the furnace hath he tried them, and received them as a burnt offering.
3:7 And in the time of their visitation they shall shine, and run to and fro like sparks among the stubble.
3:8 They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the people, and their Lord shall reign for ever.
3:9 They that put their trust in him shall understand the truth: and such as be faithful in love shall abide with him: for grace and mercy is to his saints, and he hath care for his elect.
3:10 But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.
3:11 For whoso despiseth wisdom and nurture, he is miserable, and their hope is vain, their labours unfruitful, and their works unprofitable:
3:12 Their wives are foolish, and their children wicked:
3:13 Their offspring is cursed. Wherefore blessed is the barren that is undefiled, which hath not known the sinful bed: she shall have fruit in the visitation of souls.
3:14 And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the special gift of faith, and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.
3:15 For glorious is the fruit of good labours: and the root of wisdom shall never fall away.
3:16 As for the children of adulterers, they shall not come to their perfection, and the seed of an unrighteous bed shall be rooted out.
3:17 For though they live long, yet shall they be nothing regarded: and their last age shall be without honour.
3:18 Or, if they die quickly, they have no hope, neither comfort in the day of trial.
3:19 For horrible is the end of the unrighteous generation.
4:1 Better it is to have no children, and to have virtue: for the memorial thereof is immortal: because it is known with God, and with men.
4:2 When it is present, men take example at it; and when it is gone, they desire it: it weareth a crown, and triumpheth for ever, having gotten the victory, striving for undefiled rewards.
4:3 But the multiplying brood of the ungodly shall not thrive, nor take deep rooting from bastard slips, nor lay any fast foundation.
4:4 For though they flourish in branches for a time; yet standing not last, they shall be shaken with the wind, and through the force of winds they shall be rooted out.
4:5 The imperfect branches shall be broken off, their fruit unprofitable, not ripe to eat, yea, meet for nothing.
4:6 For children begotten of unlawful beds are witnesses of wickedness against their parents in their trial.
4:7 But though the righteous be prevented with death, yet shall he be in rest.
4:8 For honourable age is not that which standeth in length of time, nor that is measured by number of years.
4:9 But wisdom is the gray hair unto men, and an unspotted life is old age.
4:10 He pleased God, and was beloved of him: so that living among sinners he was translated.
4:11 Yea speedily was he taken away, lest that wickedness should alter his understanding, or deceit beguile his soul.
4:12 For the bewitching of naughtiness doth obscure things that are honest; and the wandering of concupiscence doth undermine the simple mind.
4:13 He, being made perfect in a short time, fulfilled a long time:
4:14 For his soul pleased the Lord: therefore hasted he to take him away from among the wicked.
4:15 This the people saw, and understood it not, neither laid they up this in their minds, That his grace and mercy is with his saints, and that he hath respect unto his chosen.
4:16 Thus the righteous that is dead shall condemn the ungodly which are living; and youth that is soon perfected the many years and old age of the unrighteous.
4:17 For they shall see the end of the wise, and shall not understand what God in his counsel hath decreed of him, and to what end the Lord hath set him in safety.
4:18 They shall see him, and despise him; but God shall laugh them to scorn: and they shall hereafter be a vile carcase, and a reproach among the dead for evermore.
4:19 For he shall rend them, and cast them down headlong, that they shall be speechless; and he shall shake them from the foundation; and they shall be utterly laid waste, and be in sorrow; and their memorial shall perish.
4:20 And when they cast up the accounts of their sins, they shall come with fear: and their own iniquities shall convince them to their face.
5:1 Then shall the righteous man stand in great boldness before the face of such as have afflicted him, and made no account of his labours.
5:2 When they see it, they shall be troubled with terrible fear, and shall be amazed at the strangeness of his salvation, so far beyond all that they looked for.
5:3 And they repenting and groaning for anguish of spirit shall say within themselves, This was he, whom we had sometimes in derision, and a proverb of reproach:
5:4 We fools accounted his life madness, and his end to be without honour:
5:5 How is he numbered among the children of God, and his lot is among the saints!
5:6 Therefore have we erred from the way of truth, and the light of righteousness hath not shined unto us, and the sun of righteousness rose not upon us.
5:7 We wearied ourselves in the way of wickedness and destruction: yea, we have gone through deserts, where there lay no way: but as for the way of the Lord, we have not known it.
5:8 What hath pride profited us? or what good hath riches with our vaunting brought us?
5:9 All those things are passed away like a shadow, and as a post that hasted by;
5:10 And as a ship that passeth over the waves of the water, which when it is gone by, the trace thereof cannot be found, neither the pathway of the keel in the waves;
5:11 Or as when a bird hath flown through the air, there is no token of her way to be found, but the light air being beaten with the stroke of her wings and parted with the violent noise and motion of them, is passed through, and therein afterwards no sign where she went is to be found;
5:12 Or like as when an arrow is shot at a mark, it parteth the air, which immediately cometh together again, so that a man cannot know where it went through:
5:13 Even so we in like manner, as soon as we were born, began to draw to our end, and had no sign of virtue to shew; but were consumed in our own wickedness.
5:14 For the hope of the Godly is like dust that is blown away with the wind; like a thin froth that is driven away with the storm; like as the smoke which is dispersed here and there with a tempest, and passeth away as the remembrance of a guest that tarrieth but a day.
5:15 But the righteous live for evermore; their reward also is with the Lord, and the care of them is with the most High.
5:16 Therefore shall they receive a glorious kingdom, and a beautiful crown from the Lord’s hand: for with his right hand shall he cover them, and with his arm shall he protect them.
5:17 He shall take to him his jealousy for complete armour, and make the creature his weapon for the revenge of his enemies.
5:18 He shall put on righteousness as a breastplate, and true judgment instead of an helmet.
5:19 He shall take holiness for an invincible shield.
5:20 His severe wrath shall he sharpen for a sword, and the world shall fight with him against the unwise.
5:21 Then shall the right aiming thunderbolts go abroad; and from the clouds, as from a well drawn bow, shall they fly to the mark.
5:22 And hailstones full of wrath shall be cast as out of a stone bow, and the water of the sea shall rage against them, and the floods shall cruelly drown them.
5:23 Yea, a mighty wind shall stand up against them, and like a storm shall blow them away: thus iniquity shall lay waste the whole earth, and ill dealing shall overthrow the thrones of the mighty.
6:1 Hear therefore, O ye kings, and understand; learn, ye that be judges of the ends of the earth.
6:2 Give ear, ye that rule the people, and glory in the multitude of nations.
6:3 For power is given you of the Lord, and sovereignty from the Highest, who shall try your works, and search out your counsels.
6:4 Because, being ministers of his kingdom, ye have not judged aright, nor kept the law, nor walked after the counsel of God;
6:5 Horribly and speedily shall he come upon you: for a sharp judgment shall be to them that be in high places.
6:6 For mercy will soon pardon the meanest: but mighty men shall be mightily tormented.
6:7 For he which is Lord over all shall fear no man’s person, neither shall he stand in awe of any man’s greatness: for he hath made the small and great, and careth for all alike.
6:8 But a sore trial shall come upon the mighty.
6:9 Unto you therefore, O kings, do I speak, that ye may learn wisdom, and not fall away.
6:10 For they that keep holiness holily shall be judged holy: and they that have learned such things shall find what to answer.
6:11 Wherefore set your affection upon my words; desire them, and ye shall be instructed.
6:12 Wisdom is glorious, and never fadeth away: yea, she is easily seen of them that love her, and found of such as seek her.
Keep digging.
Wow. Who knew the mission statement for Weight Watchers was that long.
NarcAngel
“Wow. Who knew the mission statement for Weight Watchers was that long.”
😝😝😝 sitting here in a classroom and that totally cracked me up!! Good thing no kids were in the room!
It Depends,
I find this scripture very interesting, particularly for the sake of what it’s saying in the context of when it was written. If it was, indeed, written centuries ago, then it can be said that empathic and narcissistic human traits were very much alive and in existence way back in history.
Back then, there was no present-day science or technology or results of evolving psychological research as there is these days. So, the empaths of those historical times had no science on which to base their beliefs or insights. Yet, there was still this quest to spread knowledge and warn others about “good” and “evil”. They based it on god, religion and an afterlife.
They sought to understand (truth-seekers as all empaths are!) what was happening and based their insights on spiritual understanding. Today, you could replace god with technology, religion with science, and the afterlife with fame or a legacy.
That’s how I see it anyway. This scripture may be a little hard to relate to and understand by today’s standards of “knowledge” and “understanding”, but I feel that it still resonates and has meaning in light of its historical perspective. It’s quite interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Grin!!! What else would you expect from a penniless pauper, red-headed, white trash, unintelligent and socially deranged ditch digger? HeHeHe That bit of poetry hit home and I know why, despite the fact I know you’d never admit it and most can’t see it or understand why.
We know!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 Kisses (I’ll give a tiny concession. I really did post it just for you!!! I knew you would appreciate it in all it’s magnificent glory! )
NarcAngel
I am truly sorry that you can’t keep up. Maybe you should just sit this one out on the porch and let the big dogs handle this? 🙂 We are slightly out of your cognitive ability league but that’s ok. Everyone didn’t put the work in necessary in order to quality for the race. You will probably have a much better chance of qualifying on your next tryout!
And when I think of it, my fingers turn to fists
I never did anything to you, man
But no matter what I try
You’ll beat me with your bitter lies
So call me crazy, hold me down
Make me cry, get off now, baby —
It won’t be long till you’ll be
Lying limp in your own hand
— Fiona Apple
The supernova was a necessary stage, but I think he liked the heat and light. He certainly kept doing his best to bring about explosions. He’d already told me he relished the challenge I presented. My disdainful laughter is what made him limp.
If the supernova knows how to use its power for “good” can a supernova defeat a narcissist? OR Does the nature of the supernova stop them? OR can they cause any damage?
The supernova is an event, not a person.
What do you mean “Supernova” is a event?
Read the article again.
Yes, an empath can use a supernova event to defeat a narcissist and a sustained and informed supernova can defeat MANY narcissists!!! Empaths are able to use supernova mode to hurl unending and unemotional truth at them.
But if a narcissist is only about the narcissist, he/she is deaf, dumb and blind to your emotional grenades. Mental warfare will not kill or destroy a narcissist. They are impervious to your injurious attempts. The only think from your end that may be a catalyst for injury is THEIR interpretation of the lack of fuel you have failed to provide.
Is there any truth to what I have said? Trying to understand and put my thoughts on “paper”.
Correct.
Such huge insight! Understanding my whole life from you HG!
Have emailed you re the audio consultation and can’t wait!
HG,
I have two questions to ask of you.
1. Was this a disengagement?
2. What caused it if it was a disengagement?
I blocked the lesser on all accounts except my whatsapp, which he sent me a message on. I wounded him repeatedly non stop, and i sent his sugar mama all the messages he has sent me about how he is going to screw me every which way from, Monday to Sunday on Friday night.
Do you think the narcissist deleted me from whatsapp because being a loser Lesser that he is, possibly couldn’t handle a Super Empath going into Supernova, or because i contacted his main IPSS in his fuel Matrix. It happened on, Sunday which is a day of rest for this loser low life Lesser, who is always on the “Go” due to his job being a Navy Seal and taking steroids and Cialis. He never sleeps and stays drunk. I didn’t understand how his body could keep going, until someone said steroids help you to recuperate.
I needed him to disengage with me, although i did block him on all other accounts. It was hard this time around, but i knew if I contacted his main IPSS, or kept wounding him, he would soon disengage with me, and run like the coward he is. At first i had anxiety after i saw he had removed me on whatsapp, than i said to myself; this is what you wanted. You went 11 months No Contact until the Lesser sent you a request on Snapchat and you with your emotional thinking you excepted it.
From January to Auguest 13th, I have only seen him 3 times, and it was to get emails from my embarrassing past with this guy. Only to find out he was just playing games with me. He has absolutely no way to hoover me now. I wasted 3 years of my life on that loser and 11 months of it was no contact. I hate myself for it. Why have I not met anyone since this parasite? Never in my life has this happened to me.
Hello, this is a matter best suited to consultation given the detail involved.
okay.
#1 fan,
In my opinion, if he is a lesser somatic, you are a ipss, and sugar momma is just an ipss, I do not think that is enough to for him to disengage. I think he would just put you on shelf. After he reestablishes control by compartmentalizing you away from his sugar momma, he will take you off the shelf again. If the sugar momma was an actual ipps, I can see it being a disengagement, and him not contacting you for a longer period of time.
Oh gosh be very careful here. I know many of these special ops guys and they are a different breed and I believe many are Narcs. It’s how they do what they do. Please stay away from this guy . Believe me you are no match for him
Beautifully explained.
“And one day she discovered that she was fierce, and strong, and full of fire, and that not even she could hold herself back because her passion burned brighter than her fears.” – Mark Anthony
OH MY!!! I love this one!!!
Did I mention I love this quote? This so embodies what I have tried to explain today!!! And in just a few sentences. When love and passion for others burns brighter then an empaths fears. Such a beautiful explanation of informed and sustained supernova. I bow in pleasant admiration, before the author!!! THAT, is pure poetry!
This is how I caused a disengagement from the somatic lesser: By going into Supernova mode. He ran like the weak link he is. Although, i am feeling guilt, my logic thinking is telling me, he is a narcississt who doesn’t give a damn about you.
Feel no guilt. You are amazing in your ability to protect yourself!!!
If you are engaging? you lose period. It’s a clear sign he still has his grip on you. Any action attention “battling” is pure fuel. The only thing that can beat a Narc is pure indifference. That’s it. Anything else is the victim deluding themselves in an attempt to feel power where there is none. If you engage, you’ve lost period.
If you are doing that you may win a skirmish but he will win the war. You care. He doesn’t. He who cares least wins this
Sorry, if you are battling them, you aren’t winning. You just aren’t. That is you trying to convince yourself. Any form of engagement you lose. The only way you win is to not engage.
There are many many resources that back this up aside from HG. They aren’t all wrong
What you fail to realize is that these people will wait years and long after you’ve somewhat forgotten about them to get you back and they will get you back no matter how long they have to wait. They do not forget
I’m supernova empath. I betted the ex sociopath. I won the game.
EXACTLY!!! LMAO
Very timely HG. Just endured a public ambush hoover. Narc left severly wounded. Did not know i had it in me. This explains it so well. Thanks too for the empath grenade concept. Lol. Tossed a ouple with no emotion what so ever. The HG training just kicked in.
J
Thats the way to do it. Take the information and file it away instead of worrying if and when there will be a hoover. Then when the hoover occurs you are prepared and it kicks in. Worrying and wondering about hoovers doesnt pay off, but preparation does. Good job.
Well done J!
We’re proud of you!
I remember the point of no return, though I’ve never been interested in fighting him or hurting him.
In the end I wanted him to see that I saw the facade for what it was.
It turned out to be not the best idea I’ve ever had, lol.
Now my only effort (related to him) is in maintaining my decision to stay away from him.
So far so good.
Shesaw, what happened when he learned you saw through the facade? I’m curious. In my case he became fearful of the damage I could do to his reputation.
Hi Mercy,
He kinda ‘trusted’ me – he had been testing me to see if I would always back him up or save his face. He intensified that after. So I suppose he became more fearful too.
…forgot to insert that he gave me his first long ST after this (1,5 month, never felt more punished for anything in my life). After this ST he came back and started testing me a lot and inserting hurtful accents in our communication. I endured that for 2 weeks – then I left.
Shesaw, from my experience only, I can’t say what it’s like for anyone else, all conversation with the narc is hurtful to some extent .At first you blow it off thinking he doesn’t realize the things he says are hurtful but after awhile you start to think he is doing it on purpose. Like testing to see how much you can take before getting a reaction. Looking back on my relationship I now see that even the times that I thought were “good times” were actually poisoned in some way.
The more I could handle the more he would tell me until I became his “go to” person in all aspects of his life including his treatment of other fuel sources. Now I know too much and am considered a threat. He still engages, still acts like he can’t live without me but when we fight it’s more damaging to me then it ever has been in the past.
I feel caloussed. I feel like nothing he does can break me anymore. That is a challenge to him so the punishments are more severe. I’m glad you got out. I hope you stay out. It doesn’t get better. One day you’ll wake up and wonder when you became this strange person looking back in the mirror.
Mercy, thanks so much for your reaction. That’s so painful to read about how you feel. It must be a very isolating experience. I believe that is what would have happened to me too (or will happen if I ever give in to his attention again).
I tried to stay in contact with him after his ST. But is was all games that he played. He didn’t want me to leave, he wanted me to stay on the shelf (‘love me while I am away’) but I challenged him every time he contacted me by being honest about what I wanted from him (attention, which he wouldn’t give because of new IPSS). But he would nevertheless promise to do so, and he would deliver, but in a devaluing way (reasserting control, giving meaningless attention). It really led us nowhere. He didn’t get what he wanted (I didn’t provide him with negative fuel nor very positive fuel). And I didn’t get what I aimed for : an honest (did I really believe that?) answer of him. It was all pointless. So I made a rational decision and stopped the BS. He lives 2000 miles away from me, and I am grateful for that.
Are you still in a kind of relationship with him? I can’t read your last paragraph without feeling your disillusion. You must have given him a lot of yourself – and what you get back is darkness. It’s so alienating.
I used to think that I could handle him, by armoring myself. I could – but it came with the unpleasant experience of looking emptiness in the eye. It’s like they punish you for finding their ‘soft’ spots. Like they don’t bear to be seen as human. He would open up with me about his narcissism sometimes (he knew how he always sought admiration, he told me how he manipulated others, he realized he did not feel much) but I would never confirm that I saw this in him too. It was his truth, he was the only one allowed to talk about it. When I only once, very respectfully confirmed him that I saw his facade I instantly knew that was not a good idea. I feel like I myself created a lock on his door by saying what I was not allowed to say. I was only allowed to know. I lost him at that moment.
What remained was just a hollow dance. A meaningless, pointless, boring game. It was like he wanted me to stay around to remind me of my mistake. That’s where I started to believe that he did it on purpose. That was my disillusion. I believed in him. But the line of trust was so extremely fragile – it had to break. It was inevitable.
The threat to my NC is the wish to give him back this meaningful connection. Let him have at least one meaningful connection in his life… Thank you for reminding me that it doesn’t get better. I believe you.
Hugs to you, Mercy. I am very grateful for your reaction. It made me think (it took me hours to write this reaction, to be honest 🙂 and it made me feel better. Thank you for your care and compassion. Next time when you look at the mirror I hope this will reflect back to you too.
Take care
Shesaw,
Your response has me in tears. Maybe its relief that someone understands or maybe it’s that you feel the same pain and it’s heartbreaking. Your words “isolated, alienated, emptiness” all describe the person I’ve become. I can be in a room full of people I love and feel so alone. Most people never know.
Yes there is some type of a relationship still. I couldn’t even put a label on it right now. The first 4 years were like the golden period (or more like a bright yellow period) it’s easy for the narc to disguise what they are when we live in denial. The last 3 have been bad. Uncovering the deception of the early relationship is a bitter pill to swallow. The information has been given to me in small doses designed to slowly torture me and wear me down. I’m better now, the silent treatments and no contact periods have gone from the cruelest form of punishment to small blessings of peace. So much so that I’ve learned to use them on him to create my own peace.
I appreciate your response. You have no idea how much I needed to hear your words today. I related to your experience as if it were me so many years ago. I wish I had HGs knowledge and his readers support back then. Friends mean well but when you look in their eyes you know they have no idea.
I envy your strength in leaving and I hope when you feel like you need to reach out to him you remember that you are worthy of so much more.
Mercy, I thought a lot of you these past days. Past days were a bit hard for me, because he hoovered with all the niceness I felll for every time he made things up with me. It was sooo tempting to give in. I did not in the end, mainly because of your words “it doesn’t get better”. I wrote those somewhere in my phone – they have become my mantra.
You wrote that the information was given to you in small doses – what kind of information do you mean specifically? Did he tell about himself or about what he was doing to others?
Mine told me both. He even told me about the tactics he used on me (in very covert terms) – and oh, how proud he was that he could make me come back. He didn’t realize that it was exactly this smugness that woke my anger and made me convinced to show him that he wasn’t that all-powerful.
And now he wants to prove he is. I cannot give in to him – it will weaken my case and strengthen his. He will definitely make me feel that. So it’s a lost case a priori.
He’s the ultimate challenge to my problem-solving skills. Give me a problem an I solve it – but I can’t with him. Even if I were ‘the best thing ever happened to him’ – he still has to play the push-pull. I know why (control) but it still frustrates me that I have to let him go.
Please don’t envy me for getting out – if anything, let it be an inspiration. You can do it too. One day you will feel strong and brave and cut the ties. Prepare for a long ride. I imagine myself at the end of the road and I revisit that image many times a day. It helps.
Take care
Mercy,
This old comment of yours really hit me today. I feel so similarly as I look back, knowing what I know now, all those passive aggressive little jabs I didn’t see at the time. But they were insults just the same. It all escalates over time, the silences, the ignoring, the comments, the out and out devaluing.
I totally get what you mean about being seen as a threat eventually, when you really start to see through. And the punishments becoming more severe.
Not worth it, no matter how you look at it.
Hope you are well.
I had a SuperNova with a GN. Ha!
I’m still standin.
Supernova’s are really intresting. I’ve had a few. Most I did unconsciously looking back and I blasted him a good ‘un; ripped apart a lot of his matrix and I’m sure as of a consequence of that took quite a few ‘appliances’ with me. Struggling to place him actually. ULN or maybe a LMN. Not sure.
I’m pretty sure I wounded a GCN once as well. I had managed to stumble on his fuel matrix; quite by chance actually. I went through the roof. (I was enjoying an extended golden time). In point of fact, I was in the middle of escaping and he was deploying quite a few preventative Hoovers which were failing. He attempted the suicide power play. I gave him nearly a week of sustained attack before finally withdrawing. He hasn’t attempted a Hoover. yet. Be intresting if he ever does.
But those two occasions happened before I was weaponised.
I’ve felt myself close to sliding into one recently with PatriNarc but have not succumbed yet. I may do though if it carries on with his malevolent Hoovers and smears.
Hi Renarde
Why is your dad being so badly behaved now? What’s he punishing you for? How tedious and sad for you.
I have spent the greater part of the last two years bouncing theories around in my own mind,in an attempt to figure out just what “disorder” fits with me.I know I must have at least one,my childhood and upbringing guaranteed me that.As well,I definately do not function in life the way “most” do,it has been an ongoing issue.Therapy is a non option.I trust no one and the three attempts I made in previous years(before the mistrust had fully set in) ended in me consoling my therapist and handing them a tissue as I exited.Both heart wrenching and disapointing,I feel both sympathy and distain(its your job,how could you be so weak from a simple story.)Also,I am pretty much convinced there is not a therapist out there capable enough to unravel me.Do I really want to emotionally devastate other by trying?! I can be both,extremely empathetic and completely disconnected from my emotion.I approach almost all problems with logic,allowing emotions to effect a decision negates any effectiveness of the found solution,more often than not.Once the issue is solved,if it is an emotional one,I am behind closed doors;an emotional disaster.Never for long,I would never allow it,but always.
Your descriptions of the super empath are the closest I have found to a category I may fit in,though I fear I may still be giving myself too much credit.I love making people happy,kindness has a way of lifting spirits and everyone deserves to feel that positive flow.The effects of kindness and basic courtesy are immeasurable,powerful stuff and its my absolute favorite to revel in.I can recall many small acts of kindness towards me as early as 3 years old,even how it felt in the moment.I believe truly these small acts have made all the difference in who I am today versus who I may have become.I am so grateful for them.
I am an eternal optomist in many reguards,and brutally realistic in others.
When I go “Supernova”,there is not one shred of guilt,not ever.Why would I feel guilt for treating someone the way they have asked me to.You manipulate me or anyone innocent,you have literally invited the trouble and injury you have endured.Once I recognize someone as a manipulator,you are done to me.If I am forced to deal with you in any way,I will be so transparent with your game,you will chose to stay far away from me in every way possible.I do this for two reasons,to protect myself and others.And to make you think twice and doubt yourself,weaken you essentially.Perhaps it will lessen the damage you are capable of inflicting on your next victim.
HG,I have read and listened to much of your material in the last 6 months,to date you are what I feel is the most capable of sending me in the right direction.Should I be looking at empath/narcissist,or more towards sociopath?
Any feedback would be greatly valued.
Best reguards,
Rebecca
You ought to consult with me so I can garner more information in order to furnish you with accuracy.
Tuber
I have noticed your deep understanding of the concepts of the “Matrix” movies due to your literary comments. Wondering if you have learned to appreciate the Disney movies yet? :; 😛 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br0DCEEBplY
The Disney Snow White Mirror Scene perhaps? Robin Hood? Grin!
Never mess with a Supernova!
My narc traits are strong, being borderline, but I also have strong empathic traits, so they keep each other in check.
But when supernova mode takes over I want to absolutely pulverise the narc!!! Then after any damage is done I feel bad, as the empathic straights soon kick the narc traits ass! It’s very conflicting being one of these.
It’s exactly right as HG has explained, the empathic traits get lesser to almost nothing, (and they have to, otherwise we could not be that horrible) and the narc traits get stronger and take over, and they have to do that. We have to become narc-like in order to kick their ass, because they they only take notice when you speak their language.
However, I lack the control the narcs/psychopaths have. That’s what they have over me. I also have codependent issues, and I’m not very consistent. At least I know what it is that happens now. I’ve gone supernova on all the narcs in my life at one time! I hope it makes them stay away.
Could you tell I was a supernova HG? Or did you just think I was a narc?
Control over my emotions is something I’ve worked really hard on achieving since my teens (side-effect of a narcissistic mother and her emotional manipulatons). I guess that’s why I fell for the narc – he made it seem like for once, I could finally let go and be myself and fully feel and express my emotions. Only I couldn’t, of course, because soon after the golden period began dissipating and I voiced my displeasure or concerns, he started with corrective devaluations and I fell for every one of them – well, almost. Which brought me back to managing my emotions, only now the stakes were that much higher and I couldn’t seem to find my way out of the mess until I ended up clinically depressed and suicidal.
Thank god he tired of my lack of fuel at that point and shelved me. I then – after five years – instinctively ‘shelved’ him in return (saying that I needed some space and was installing no contact for a few months to get my head in order). Which of course presented him with a challenge and he started to hoover, alternating between hinting at another golden period and trying to re-establish his control over me. Wrong move, dude.
I’m well-aware of my own psychopathic tendencies, my own inner darkness and cruelty. It’s not often roused and even when it is, I keep a tight lid on it, but it’s there. If I ever snapped…. I wonder how many other people go through life feeling that way, with that destructive potential within them.
Hi MS
I understood every word you said. I was depressed from years of abusive mind games from my sister and years of punishment for some crime no-one ever spoke to me about, but I’d been judged anyway, and the punishment was never-ending.
N-mother would colliude with her, in an eternal triangle of pain. Pain for me, that is.
So glad you didn’t act on your suicidal feelings.
Thanks for sharing.
“Wrong move, dude”. Ha ha! Love it.
Morning sun
We all have a little psychopath in us (DNA), some just have more of it than others from what I have read.
Hi tigerchelle…supernova is an event of a super empath. What you described ive done as well. It hasnt happened often but when ive been pushed too far my more narc traits come forward and ive lashed out. Its a feeling of not being entirely in control. Then ive disengaged from that person for a time. Its happened with my mother. One instance was when she had done some things to upset me during christmas and then lied to me and id found out. I was so hurt but then became very angry and the fear of abandonment issues triggered i completely lost it and was screaming into the phone as i left a message and let it all out. I didnt hold back. I said some things i regret and i was in a fit of rage. I wanted to hurt her like she had me over the years. We didnt talk for months after that. At the moment you feel almost like youre in an out of body experience and not in control.
Tiger, MS, Caroline, Chihuahuamum:
Those all overlap with my experiences. My initial issues were with a triangle with mom and sister. Way too late in life I identified it after making a sad five year attempt to rectify the past. Stupid. I eventually went no contact. Sister was doing most of the manipulating at the end. When my mom tried to reengage a few times (almost yearly at the holidays, of course), I eventually lost it, got drunk while raging and ranting in response and gave her even more evidence that the problem is me. Partly triggered by things like the phrase “I don’t know where you get your nastiness from.” Sounds like nothing, but I was raised being screamed at, criticized and slapped, so it’s completely absurd for her to say that. I am well aware that I am the projection. I believe in part because I wasn’t really like her.
Same feeling as MS, have been trying to learn to control my emotions since I was a teen. The narc I spent a five year platonic intense communication tangle with recently had made me feel like I could finally express my feelings fully. It was a feeling that he sort of opened me in a way I have never felt. I still haven’t fully come to understand what was purposeful and what wasn’t. But what led me to accept that it was a lost cause was a few obvious ways he’d alter what he was saying to me to reverse things, some very very blatant grandiosity and reputation concerns that trumped anything else in the world, and changing one important word in a sentence I’d written to him to alter the meaning of it to the opposite so that he could use it as proof that he did not love me. That combined with a few things he said in a row to try to get me in line that sounded like phrasing my mother would use started to form irrevocable proof to me that I was dealing with someone I didn’t read correctly to begin with. I started no contact just before I came here.
I started to wonder why certain things didn’t tip me off in the beginning and why I needed logical “proof” to walk away. The truth is that right around the time I should have cut it off I got turned around in a moment of weakness and lack of emotional control because of a death, which is when he started a long silent treatment that I couldn’t properly negotiate. I have a natural inclination to tolerate weakness and character flaw in others due to my past. I am always optimistic. But my rage and emotional control issues when triggered still daunt me. It makes me wonder how to find real health. I am considering some EMDR therapy amongst other things. I do believe the man is a narcissist and that his word twisting is nearly undetectable to most people, I only started to understand that his end goal is superiority, so any kindness is for the sake of that. I try to see it as a positive that I got enmeshed so badly because otherwise I would not be delving this much into the topic and learning about it. On the other hand it makes me see the world differently and I almost feel even more defensive and frustrated.
Wow an amazing and empowering piece of writing here this is just what I needed to read.
Thank you Mr Tudor
You are welcome.
Incredibly insightful, HG. As a Supernova, I would like to add that no matter how diligent, clever, and resilient I thought I was, I could never beat the Greater. It truly was a clash of the titans. Often we would end in a stalemate, to which he would suggest we just resolve it in bed. I finally realized that I wasn’t wired to go the distance like the Greater. And that the only way to win the game was to not play. Further, once I learned that there was such a thing as negative fuel, it was much easier to walk away.
Hi Missy,
How are you?
To Caroline: Hello back! Im ok. Basically surviving, living a more enlightened life, figuring out how to erect healthy boundaries, and arming myself for a future hoover. Thanks for asking! Thinking of creating a t shirt (skin tight of course) with the slogan: Caution: Entering a No Fuel Zone
Love your t-shirt idea!
I agree that you can’t usually obtain anything but a stalemate, in regards to a “relationship” with one. Even supernova is mostly pointless, if the empath does not leave them in their dust. LOL
‘the MRN will find himself in a tormented loop…’
HG, ex-N was never going to just ‘have’ me.
Nobody just gets to ‘have’ me.
He didn’t have the substance to unlock my heart and mind.
I was waiting to see some substance.
Oh, how I wanted to see some substance!
I wanted him to step up.
With time, he was rattling the drawbridge but the sound of more bolts sliding shut was unmistakable. It was a stalemate.
(Just remembered, on our first date he said to me “this is the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. I wonder who will win?”. A little later I told him “you’ve met your match”. There was a whole lot I was intuitively ‘seeing’, but unable to consciously process.
Really, who says those things on a first date?)
Is this why he chose finally to use a death strike and rape me?
HG
Just read ‘Sadistic Streak’ article, thought a few more pieces of information are req’d to be furnished:
I had escaped 4mo’s earlier.
Vulnerability 2′ to PTSD made me contact him again. He’d sent benign texts in the interim.
I didn’t know what I was dealing with.
He responded instantly.
During long phone call he launched into long rambling monologue, one item was coherent—
“No-one would have gone ahead with it after waiting, would they?”. I knew this was referring to the fact that I made him wait before our first date. He couldn’t let that go. It came up in every argument. Never resolved.
Next grievance from him was “you disappear for four months and won’t talk. You always do that, won’t talk”.
I was listening, thinking “no, we broke up. I didn’t ‘disappear’ “. He wasn’t wanting my opinion however. He was on his Platform of Pontification. This Pontif is the Master of Won’t Talk. Not me.
I heard the same “you disappear and won’t talk” response from him after the rape too. I’ve moved back into the Palais-Sans-Contact now.
Thank you for your time, I know you’re super-busy.
‘the empathic traits cannot be shut off, as they are wired into the empath’s dna’…
Deliciously true HG.
The thought has just crossed my mind that those closest to us often can’t see us as we are (or don’t want to), and yet here you are, the Mirror Holder, having never met us, accurately reflecting us in this article, and our essential life force.
It’s clear, and it’s beautiful.
Is that a look of admiration on your face?
Oh, that’s right, it’s admiration of the FUEL.
Fought back with the narcissistic psychopath. It was literally a battle of wills.
I ‘ve heard variations of “why cant you be good to me again” in:
“I want you to stop this nonsense right now and return to being the amazing person that you are!”
“I cant help what I am and you have what I need. Why do you want me to suffer?” (I asked: what are you several times but only got back word salad)
“We are amazing together and you know it. Why are you trying to ruin that?”
“I never feel more excitement and confusion than when I’m with you. Why are you trying to fuck that up behaving like this?!”
“Wow. It doesnt take much. You have a short fuse and Im patient, but you need to treat me with greater respect”
“We’re magic babe. You’ll be sorry if you let it go” (Bonus points for a plead AND a threat all in one lol)
“I’m sick of this shit now. Meet me —- at — and lets get back to where we were”.
Notice how its always my fault and its me that has to be brought under control.
Yeah. Good luck with that.
NarcAngel
““I cant help what I am and you have what I need. Why do you want me to suffer?”
This one cracked me up! That’s the kind of line people say to me. 😝
Ha ha! Windstorm Mistress of Suffering. Ha ha!
I can just picture you with the whp in your hand!
Suffering, ha!
Classic projection.
Haha…mine said the same thing “I won’t change but I need you. period” still unable to work out if he is GN or mid range!
Oh also when I went NC and started again after three weeks due to trauma bond and without realizing what it was “ why are you trying to burn the bridges”
NA
Is that all from one guy? How long were you together?
I heard….
“I either make you happy or I make you crazy! I never know what I am going to get! Your highs are manic and your lows are devastating!”
and…
“Now: Let us not speak of this any further! If you calm down we may have a phone call later, how does that sound?”
Gabbanzobean
He’s such a hypocrite.
He LOVES the drama.
He’d made you his emotional yo-yo.
Caroline,
Yup! He comes for it and then disappears and then comes back again.
Wow listen to the superiority in that. It the whole now you sit in time out and if you are a good girl the rest of the day, I will speak with you on the phone.
Fots,
You know there is no hope here right? None. Don’t give him anymore fuel
Lol NA, the orders! (first and last one)
Sometimes their magical thinking is quite amusing
NarcAngel and Windstorm
my first ex-N said the “you’ll be sorry if you leave” line, because “there’s only one of me”.
Turns out I was sorry I stayed.
He had two other women he was using for attention as well as me. I had such bad cognitive dissonance for about 12 months afterward.
He’s a journalist and they’ve named an award after him for making bonehead statements. So no change there, then.
Finally figured out why one guy said “he was told” he would never be able to empathize. Another told me that he was told he might be sociopathic. All probably falls more under the warning post, but they do have a way of taking issue with MY behavior. I’m glad to sort out some of it but still need to understand why I chase such things (though I mostly excuse myself quickly when things are negative).
Another enlightening article. I have not officially been diagnosed as a co-dependant but the more I read, the more I recognize myself. (A light bulb went off in my brain the other night and woke me up from sleep. I realized there is a direct link from the abuse I suffered as a child to the abuse I suffered at the hands of the Ex). I wish I could afford a consultation with you HG as I know you would help me so much! He appeared at a very vulnerable time (which was planned I now know) and I was “his” before he even kissed me for the first time. As a co-dependant I tried over and over to make it work. *I* thought we were great together of course not realizing that literally everything was a manipulation. I was an IPPS and must have given potent fuel. Even when I left him, I always returned over and over again. It started to take a toll on me physically and emotionally but I could not stay away. I have now been diagnosed with complete body and mind breakdown. I have aged 15 years in a very short time and I have nothing left to give to anyone let alone myself. I don’t have the strength to carry on BUT I know that is probably what he wants. He wants me to be so broken that I can’t function anymore so because of that, I am DETERMINED to make it through. I will not allow him to win!!!!!!!
Broken Rainbow
Hang in there!
We’re all learning how to have healthy relationships and healthy boundaries, how to manage our physical and emotional resources. Be kind to yourself.
Caroline
Thank you. I take it day by day and sometimes second by second. Yesterday was bad but today I am having a good day. It is so hard to be kind to myself when I went back to him over and over. It is hard to be kind when I feel I do not deserve anything better. It’s hard but I keep stepping forward.
Dear Broken Rainbow,
Atta girl ….
You will again become a beautiful rainbow and shine even brighter 🌈
Rainbow hugs gorgeous
Luv Bubbles 🍾
I think you’re intellectually brilliant, I have to say it. Thanks for sharing the information, it is very useful. In return, I hope that some day you will get some peace and stop the anxiety about the need for fuel
Thank you.
I know I have narcissist traits. I only realize I have that side when I’m fighting back. Sometimes these traits come out subtle…little things to sabotage his life but appearing to be innocent. The subtle paybacks are the most satisfying. I dont get my hands dirty. Then there is the rage. Thats the side I’m not proud of. In the moment it feels great. After, whether I win or loose, I always feel like I lowered my standards to his level…not a good feeling. I don’t like to loose control but sometimes it has to be done .
How often to co dependents escape? And how often are they still in denial after the fact?
Please read Chained.
LOL at the phrase “why can’t you be good to me again?” That sounds like something my MRN would say to me!
One time I heard something very similar…. “Okay for MONTHS you are fine with me and now all of a sudden the other shoe seems to have fallen and you are now acting like this?”
It was after I called him out on his bullshit of course. That is always when these things happen.
Please write more about the mid-rangers, HG.
Fuel on the Shelf,
My online narc pulled that shit too. When I wouldn’t confess who else I was sexting with that night (because there was no one!), he said I was being controlling, not sharing everything with him. He said, “You are going to ruin us. Our relationship. We have a good thing, why do you want to mess it up.” OMG, he was so full of shit! It was SO. MUCH. BULLSHIT. I am just appalled that I bought it, but he seemed so vulnerable and convincing at that moment, except there was nothing to tell him! He was accusing me of what HE was doing, projecting all over the place.
Saint Piano does this to you, all the damn time and you do not deserve that!
Mary
Holy shit. This is me. My dad was a Narc and I never understood why I got so codependent instead of tough and narcissistic. But during this last 3 years w a greater Narc, I started to strike back and scared myself. I was proud that I was standing up to him but I didn’t want to be that mean. I guess I always knew I was doing it to get him back – never to really get rid of him for real. Eventually I broke up w him, but only bc I was manipulated into doing so – he had a new girlfriend who had no idea I had existed. 15 years younger. He was happy to move on to her and has not hovered at all. Part of me knows this is best for me but part of me feels it’s bc I wasn’t worthy in some way. Or the big fear – that he changed for this girl in a way he wouldn’t with years of my love and attempts…
Gwyneth, you realize he’s not happy with her either right? She’s just a new flavor of fuel. He didn’t change for her, he just hasn’t shown his true self to her…yet.
You are worthy. You need to know that!
Gwyneth
Welcome!
We can assure you HE was unworthy of YOU.
He didn’t have the ability to appreciate your love.
This is a time of big personal growth for you.
Some of the emotional discomfort you feel now is just growing pains.
This is a good thing.
You are learning to be the real, fabulous, unsquashed you, who had to squash herself to survive childhood with a N parent.
Be assured that just as you are now going through personal growth, he isn’t.
His mind is closed and he sees no reason to change, it will be just the same with the new victim. Don’t let fear ‘future fake’ you.
Be assured that just as you are now going through personal growth, he isn’t.
His mind is closed and he sees no reason to change, it will be just the same with the new victim. Don’t let fear ‘future fake’ you.
Worthy of a Second read . So well said !
he has her to hurt you. ignore him and live well. that is your revenge. escape!
Gwyneth, it’s because you showed your worthiness that he hasn’t hoovered.
You don’t need him to define your worthiness because you already did it for yourself x
Alexissmith2016
Well said.
I think it can take a long time for some of us to ‘come into ourselves’ as women, to be the flourishing beauties we were designed to be.
To know who we are and feel comfortable in our own skin.
To unapologetically BE.
To value who we are and what we bring to life.
If we value ourselves just because of what we DO for others, without an intrinsic value of us being settled in our own minds, then we effectively commodify ourselves.
We objectify ourselves.
We say, in effect, “I am just an appliance”.
HG, do you view other Ns as appliances? Do you have a respect for other Ns? Greaters maybe? Or is everyone an appliance if they function for you in some way or another?
Thank you – Alexis
They are appliances.
Very interesting to know. Thank you HG
Caroline, “To unapologetically BE.” That’s my goal in life. Much easier said than done I’m afraid. I don’t know if I’ll ever make it there.
MB
So true. It is much easier said than done.
You are on your way, allthough it mightn’t feel like it; even in such a short time, my life has been made sweeter with the beauty of your company here at HGU.
That’s really sweet Caroline. Thank you!
When I discovered I was dealing with a narc. I found it fascinating and found myself testing him. Fortunately I was just a secondary so he was not effective on me. I set out to wound him repeatedly. He would go into a mild rage then I would softly say sorry. I guess im a Super empath.
I went SuperNova on his ass last Christmas, then got into revenge mode- I was sure I would not hear from him again! I was wrong- of course! However, now I am ‘almost healed’ and enjoy from time to time to mess with his head! It is fun! However, you must be at a point where ‘he’ cannot affect your heart……. only logic,calm, ‘irrational’ revenge logic- or you will fail! I do employ the ‘happiness factor’ to enrage him– and it seems to work! Have not heard hide nor hair from him in over 2 weeks- guess he is ‘teaching’ me a lesson! HAHAHA!!! I really have nothing left to say to him, I got what I wanted so he can now stay away…. forever!
Empress1
Good comment. Another way to annoy the heck out of them is being goofy and silly and having fun like when you were a kid. They HATE that! 🙂
No, that is Challenge Fuel.