All In The Eyes
The eyes are one of our powerful weapons. I hear so many comments made about my eyes.
“I saw the world in your eyes.”
“Everything I ever wished for, I could see in your eyes.”
“I’ve never known anyone give me such a malevolent stare.”
“You are dead behind the eyes.”
“That hollow look you give me, chills me inside.”
“Your reptilian, empty stare always unnerved me.”
When we first engage with you, we are able to reflect back at you want you desperately want. Hope, optimism, desire and trust are all mirrored in our eyes. Do not be mistaken and think that we generate those looks. We do not. All we are doing is ensuring that you see what you want to see in order to ensnare you. This mirroring serves two purposes. Firstly, it shows you what you crave for and makes us all the more attractive to you. Secondly, it masks the empty void that truly exists. Whilst my kind and me learn how to behave and act, we mimic the way in which we are expected to respond in the most favourable manner, we do not truly feel any of those things and we cannot generate it in our eyes. Everything else we are able to simulate – the laugh, the smile, the look of surprise, the intonation of elation in our voices. We have carefully crafted these facsimiles of your emotions but managing to do so in our eyes has always eluded us. We cannot fall at the first hurdle however and have you see through our charade. Accordingly, we have managed to master the mirroring technique. You want that love and hope so badly you will see it in us when you are really just seeing yourself. We hold your gaze for longer than anyone else. You are conned into thinking this is just demonstrating the intensity of our desire for you. It is not. We must look directly into your eyes to shine back at you that which you send towards us. Should we look way, the reflection may fail and we must always have you in our eye.
As with all of our pretence we are unable to maintain this deceit for long. The mirror breaks and the shards of reflection fall away leaving the chasm of emotionlessness behind. The barren hinterland beyond our eyes is all that is left, bereft of anything at all. That is why in the later stages you will see nothing when you look at us. We cannot generate those real emotions and our mirror has now failed. Our real gaze is all that is left, cold, empty and lifeless. People often remark about how the eyes are the window to the soul. Our soul left long ago and that is why you look into dead, uncaring eyes. Even though our mouth is upturned in a smile, the crows feet at the sides crease and the brow rises, our eyes betray us. Glacial and sterile they show the reality of what we are; devoid of positive emotion and spiritually bankrupt.
All that we are able to muster is hatred. Our loathing of this unjust world is so intense that it will break through when we wish to direct that hatred against you. That is when the emptiness vanishes and instead you are subjected to our laser-like, pinpoint accurate malevolent stare. I mentioned in the recollection about the cookie jar, how I had practised my withering stare one summer. This is the precursor to our malice, our antipathy and our scorn. With consummate ease we will call on it to intimidate you and signal our contempt for you. It is powerful, unwavering and unsettling. To be on the receiving end of our hateful stare is not a pleasant experience. We muster such power with our eyes, to seduce you and then to break you, but the reality is that we only have three settings. The mirror, the void and the hatred. There is nothing else. That is all that our eyes have.
76 thoughts on “All In The Eyes”
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HG, can you spot a narcissist or psychopath if you meet someone and notice their eyes are this way , void/dead as you describe ?
I can, yes.
I wish i could, i’ve tried to see if i can notice it with people ha ha but i don’t think i can
i’ve been watching a program/series called Faking it : Tears of a Crime , it’s looking at murder cases where loved ones (supposedly) go on TV to make pleas for missing persons and it turns out they have actually killed them. A criminal profiler talks about the body language , statements and actions of these people and he’s basically doing what you do on here HG. The interesting thing is that that profiler has I believe the eyes that you describe and i’m wondering if he himself is a narcissist or sociopath as he could have that insight. Of course this could be learnt through training . However narcissist could be good at that job potentially. The few that have awareness . Having learnt so much from you HG , your books and this blog, it’s amazing when you see these programs how it all makes so much sense how these people operate .
HG: any comparison between psychopaths that kill versus narcs?
Addressed previously.
Can you tell the difference between the two?
Yes.
The Joker with Joaquin Phoenix? A narcissistic psychopath ? And the Dark Knight, Heath Ledger? The type of man who likes to see the world burn? A psychopath, right? But not all are sadistic, correct?
Contagious, I’m yet to see the Heath Ledger version of the Joker, but my eldest daughter encouraged me to watch the Joaquin Phoenix version. I remember as a child, the Joker was simply a bad man. Perhaps in Heath Ledger’s version he’s just a mad man. In Joaquin Phoenix’s version, he’s a sad man. It’s interesting to see the trajectory this character has taken over the decades, and how now we encourage what the Rolling Stones would call “Sympathy for the Devil” … we want to understand what makes him tick, how did he become that way, does he deserve our sympathy?
Fascinating topic and I’m not surprised HG can tell the difference between the two. It might be a case of it takes one to know one, but it makes me think of some of those fantasy movies like Godzilla vs Kong where you wait to see which of the predators will win. It’s a fact they need to dominate, but perhaps the more sensible ones know when to walk away.
I came across a video the other day of a shark just lazily making its way through the water close to the beach, scaring swimmers out of the water and catching some nearby scuba divers unaware. They reacted in a panic, but he lazily swam underneath them and further away. It’s the best visual I have of these predatory types. They swim in the same waters, but generally operate alone in seeking out their prey and apparently when they do meet, tend to avoid conflict and dominance battles.
GOAT EYES
Also I didn’t get hatred married to him rather disdain. The world was nothing except what he could get from it. He was the least charitable person I ever met but he would brag to others on my efforts. No religion. He was Jewish and I am Christian. I told him that I could never marry someone who would not raise our children Christian. He had an epiphany ! He said a Christian went to his sisters funeral and he agreed. He went to the baptism of our daughter! I found out later he drew devil signs on her baptism card! He lied. To be fair, he never interfered. He did not care at all about any religion.
HG, A very well written article, thank you! It is a such coincidence that I was thinking about my ex narc’s eyes this morning. I guess he is not as skillful as you are. Even at the early stage when he was seducing me, his eyes didn’t show any love, he was more staring at me than looking at me, which I felt so odd.
Later in my entanglement with him, I noticed he often tried to avoid eye contact, especially when we had sex. Do you try to avoid eye contact at some stage too? And why?
Thank you.
I would only avoid it to unsettle the other person, not because I am unable to meet their gaze.
Thanks HG, interesting response, not surprising though. He only stared at me at the very early stage of the relationship, both when we were chatting and when we had sex. I remember I asked “what?” quite often when he stared at me. I couldn’t read him. His answer was he was appreciating how good/sexy I look. But his eyes always looked empty. It was puzzling me. Now I understand it’s a fact there was nothing in his eyes for me to read. I guess his eyes gave away the truth, but all the love bombing made me blind.
I have found when rage: goat eyes. No worry about consequences. My ex held a gun to my head when I tried to leave him first. He said he would blow off my head like JFK. He was so calm. I was out. I said “ do you worst.” He let me go. I was lucky. I don’t know where my bravery came from. I was just determined to get out.
HG do you see a difference in an antisocial, a sociopath and psychopath? Isn’t there a scale? Also my ex husband was diagnosed an anti- social. A criminal. He was shifty eyed. Always. Even when we got married.
This is strange because there was something in ex narcs eyes that my instincts didn’t like.
I remember our first meeting , he teased me for being shy but it wasn’t that ,there was something unsettling about his eyes and I couldn’t look into them.
I can’t describe it , it wasn’t the size colour shape etc ,it was something behind them , too glassy ,deep set and assessing and cold.
I felt like shuddering ,then the charm kicked in and it was gone.
It was like someone looking at you but not looking at you , nothing evil or s cary looking just very unsettling and not attractive .
I avoided his gaze for ages , how I was attracted all of a sudden when the charm kicked in is a mystery ,
I honestly didn’t like his gaze at all and felt guilty for it at the time.
Your writing has helped me untie a few knots and connect many dots. I appreciate your efforts and your honesty in this particular endeavour.
This one stood out to me because I wrote this today:
‘Once during devaluation, an ex grabbed my shoulders and forced me to look into his eyes as he told another lengthy, rambling, and entirely boring story about work. It was bizarre- it felt to me as if he was searching for something, but didn’t find what he’d hoped to, and in that moment he turned.
I was frozen; transfixed. His eyes were icy cold, entirely reptilian. His stare pinned me to the spot like a butterfly to a board. No love, no light shone in those eyes. Not a flicker of beauty. Only fury; and pride, and malice. I felt frozen dead silence and white hot rage all at once. I felt what it really is to feel nothing. I couldn’t shake the mental image. I couldn’t forget that feeling. I still can’t.’
I felt that stare as a punctuation mark in our ‘relationship’. He had allowed me to see him in his full ‘glory’. Being what I am, I also had full access to his inner landscape in this connection. I felt it all: the rage, the impotence, the numbness, the barren emptiness and the bitter cold breeze. A nuclear wasteland, littered with scores of unexploded bombs, blood spilling from unhealed wounds unacknowledged. Broken objects scattered in all directions, kicked and thrown and ripped apart in anger. The constant anxiety wrestled into submission with sex and drugs. The burning pit of shame like lava threatening to boil over into fury at any moment. The hatred, pure and vile and endless.
I felt it all, the entirety of that void. I stood inside that stare, and I’d rather go through any of my personal hells again twice than stand there another minute.
In his way, with that horrific stare he truly released me. For despite all the joy, the love, the beauty he stole from me, he felt none. I saw that clearly, unequivocally.
In his way, he brought me to the realisation that I was the source, the fountain, and he the parasite.
I never want to feel that stare again, but I am starting to think it was exactly what I needed.
HG, how do u learn to mirror? Does your drive for fuel you’re entire life teach you to mimic, but as you mature, is it practice of your game/honing the process of gaining of fuel that promotes you to be able to mirror and/or reflect back
It is largely instinctive.
I left that black cold stare behind, it no longer keeps me awake at night…I am no longer mad, sad worried. I have escaped that cold dark dungeon where only I could see the manacles around my hands feet and heart. Where the sun shines down on me with its warmth and hope…it’s been 14 yrs. And another two to see the scars are gone…I laugh and skip away!
Too many full stops, far too many. So many as to make me comment about punctuation rather than the good info.
Starting today, I’m going to wear sunglasses, even at night!!!!
Tra
Yes. He would listen. I told him things most people don’t know about me. He acted like what I had to say mattered.
Dear Mr Tudor
I feel I’ve failed .I responded to the lame Hoover email , nothing emotional but still.
Why the heck I am I still doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result , think Einstein said that , am I going to waste another year of my life with this stupid hope that he will suddenly decide to pick me of the shelf .Its pathetic , honestly I don’t even like him anymore but the former illusion of him is still controlling my emotions At least I have awareness .Help.
Consult with me and I will empower you to break this cycle.
HG
Great article, thank you.
There is one more look that I saw from ex-N. A look resulting from power and triumph over, and annihilation of his opponent (me, obviously). His eyes gleamed as he looked at me in my distress. He looked high. And insufferably smug.
Caroline
His eyes were gleaming because he was so high on octane that it threatened to leak from them.
Thanks NA,
he must have been deluged with dopamine, and the adrenaline of anticipation of victory.
I have other feelings about that which I don’t have words for.
I like the way you write Wounded, can I ask you out on a date? 🙂
Lol. Thank you blank.
When I first slept with the narcissist, I actually got scared of the way he looked at me. He looked develish, and for a moment I even thought he was a psychopath. He looked like he could kill me anytime. He wasn’t agressive, but that gaze…yikes. He didn’t save the dark look for the end, it was there from the beginning. In the end I just saw two dead fish eyes. In my case, there was no standard “gaze” order, as desribed here. (I mean the mirrroring, the indifference and the dark hateful look) It makes me sad to think that he actually felt hate when he was there with me. And I knew it. He couldn’t hide it. A bad actor. Never in my life I’ve felt this unsafe and unloved.
Rachel, in the one instance when my narc lost it completely and laid hands on me, grasping my face and telling me, “I’m going to kill you!” before throwing me bodily onto a coffee table in a fit of rage caused by my daring to stand up for myself, I looked deep into his eyes and saw that he was completely serious and completely capable of killing me outright. And that he didn’t care. I never forgot the demonic look he got that day. And then when it was over, there was no apology, no explanation.
Reading this has reminded me of those times when I looked at him and saw nothing in his eyes. I though he was guarding, but there just wasn’t anything there. You’re right – it’s sad. That we believed…
That must have been terrifying. Just reading that gave me the chills.
It’s so strange, that at that time I knew nothing about narcissism, I never really read about it, and thought it had to do more with arrogance.
So, when I googled his behaviour (I started searching for cold, aloof and no intimacy) I entered this world, and I just couldn’t believe I never thought of this before. And soon I read about the eyes. Out of all the traits, and red flags, the eyes were the number 1 confirmation for me that something was really not ok. I’ve just never seen anything alike. I’m happy that everyone here (including mr. Tudor) knows what I’m talking about. The narc eyes really are a thing, it’s not some myth.
I hope now you’re at a safe distance from that person.
Rachel, I ghosted out of his life (hopefully causing him some serious financial problems in the process) about 6 weeks ago. He has no idea where I am, and I’ve blocked him, his friends and his family on phone, text, email and social media. So I’m safe for the moment, but not complacent.
I still don’t know (and won’t ever) what made him go from “I love you forever”, “You’re my queen” to “I’m going to kill you”, “I will ruin your life”, I’m gonna punch you in the face” and “Do you want to die tonight?”
Sometimes when I looked into his eyes, I thought I was slipping, that I couldn’t see what he was trying to show me or that I didn’t understand. Now I know that there really wasn’t anything there, except the endless unfillable void of need.
Hi Kelly girl: been there. Goat eyes. It’s a never ending back space when rage. I have only seen it with an antisocial but sounds like narcs have a common void.
HG Whatever happens to you in the end, I hope with this time of you informing us and being productive in a better way of using fuel, YOU have done less Abuse to those in your life. I wish you good karma The law of cause and effect Karl Marx. QUESTION~~~~~ There was a few times I asked direct questions or requests of the truth to be told to me that I looked directly into the Narcs. eyes and when he answered he could NOT look me straight in the eyes as I him. He was looking all around trying to answer me. The way he diffused me from wondering of if I got the truth of him commenting back was. He Said~~~~Okay baby and a kiss on the forehead.
I look back at our pictures together and when I look at his eyes I see pure evil in them. Almost what I would say a demons eyes look like. And that was before everything turned badly. I was so conned by the intense love bombing I just couldn’t see it. Thank you so much HG Tudor !your book and your blog has helped me a great deal.
The ridiculous flat eyes don’tshow anything about me. They are the window into your nothingness.
Dear Mr. Tudor,
Do you know what happens to broken things in japan?
They fix it with gold. And that is what you are. You have put the gold between the broken things and you are now shining.
The same goes for all the strong men and women who were able to stand and build themselves after narcissistic abuse.
Thank you. Told another reader I was big in Japan! (Golden too now).
I knew a guy who’s email was “MassiveinJapan”.
Maybe you should give yourself an upgrade, HG? Lol
Big in Japan. Ha ha!
If you stand at 6’1″ you are going to be big in Japan.
S
That’s great imagery.
Rebuilt and reinforced with gold.
Precious, despite previous damage.
Thank you for sharing that. We all need it.
(“all” means you too HG. Good to see from your comment that you realise that already)
Glad to know that my comment encouraged you. Carolinna.
It’s about time you looked into our eyes Tudor. No mirror. That power is ours not yours.
Dedicated to every beautiful strong woman on this blog. 😘❤️👊🏻 Sisters
Whenever she’s feeling empty
Whenever she’s feeling insecure
Whenever her face is frozen
Unable to take it anymore
Her shadow is always with her
Her shadow can always keep her small
So frightened that he won’t love her
She builds up a wall
Oh no, she knows where to hide in the dark
Oh no, she’s nowhere to hide in the dark
She’s a star
She’s a star
She’s been in disguise forever
She’s tried to disguise her stellar views
Much brighter than all this static
Now she’s coming through
Don’t tell her to turn down
Put on your shades if you can’t see
Don’t tell her to turn down
Turn up the flame
She’s a star
She’s a star
https://youtu.be/rB5EevdTQrQ
At least Keeley Hawes was in this video.
Thanks Presque Vu,
that was great.
Beauty, dignity, composure, intelligence, personal growth, and great vintage-glam vibe. A touch of angst like Ultravox’s ‘Vienna’, and the women were supportive of each other. Really, what’s not to like?
Exactly Caroline exactly. 🙂
Never heard of her. This pic reminds me of the opening to Persona: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8TJ2d7-1e8
Bibi! Preciously 40 seconds in there is cock and balls! Totally caught me by surprise- I thought I was seeing things!
The voice shows it too. I would go from hearing a positive cheerful amazing sounding voice, along with the intonations and the way the sweet words were said…..to hearing a completely flat emotionless voice. Monotone. Robotic even. And when I asked what was wrong “Oh I am fine, I am just tired” (cue yawn). Then the next time the voice would be happy again. Such a mind fuck.
Yes! He would call, or text asking for a call and when I reached him, he sounded flat, miserable, disappointed – unless he wanted to unspool about some drama in his life and suck me in, THEN he was animated.
“The mirror, the void and the hatred. There is nothing else.”
Do you know what happens to you in the end HG? At the point of death? I’ve seen it. Whatever is waiting for you is terrifying.
Yes. You die. Game over. That is it, so address the now and act accordingly.
This statement makes it clear why your legacy is such a priority, HG.
@Jaya – fascinating. Tell me more please.
Kellygurl116
I work with the elderly when they are no longer able to help themselves, I’ve seen a lot of deaths. There is a difference in the way they go out! A stark contrast for me was a darling man who had lived a decent life. He was surrounded by loved ones throughout his illness and when he died it was peaceful. His last breath honestly looked like a kiss, he sighed and went.
The other death was a lady who was a nasty bitch. No visitors and I was the only one with her when she died. She had been comatose but woke with eyes wide and frightened. Her face was twisted in a grimace and her last breath was a sharp intake. She didn’t go easy.
She wasn’t seeing the same thing that lovely old gent was.
Karma arrived
Who knows what people think when they go. The old gent may have been thinking about his last snared and tasty empath and the old bitch might have just realized that her grandchild might find her massive vibrator.
Hello Narc Angel,
I do believe what “Jaya” mentioned above. And if you are interested to know more, please read my reply to her.
Coming to your point. When you said that the two people above acted in this way because of what was going in their head or what they were thinking about. I totally disagree with your point. As it has nothing to do with what people is thinking at that moment.
The two following points support my argument:
– I have heard the same story over and over again from many people about how the good person looked relaxed when they die, and the evil looked distressed.
– I have a reference from religious resources that says the same thing.
I appreciate your sense of humor. But I wouldn’t use it in a serious topic such as death.
Best,
S
I will read your reply to Jaya when it is posted. In the meantime a question: If as you say, what was going on in their head or what they were thinking about has nothing to do with that moment, how is it pertinent that you state the following: I have heard the same story over and over again from many people how the good person looked relaxed when they die, and the evil looked distressed?
It appears that you also presume that I have not been in the presence of people at the moment of death. I have. Among them 2 older men who wreaked havoc on many lives. One was laughing and playing poker then closed his eyes and went. The other thanked everyone for being there and then closed his eyes and went. On the other hand-a very good woman asked for my hand and with a terrified face and voice asked if there was anyone else in the room before she went. My sister is a nurse (long term patients) and also an empath. She has experienced and shared with me many stories of passing and they are not always consistent with the type of person the patient exhibited and/or through observation and interaction with the families.
I suggest that sometimes we project what type of passing we feel they deserved onto them. It makes us feel better to think that good people pass well and comfortably because of a clear conscience and that bad people will come to some reckoning and atone. The belief of Karma (which I do not subscribe to). I think its just random. We all have our own feelings on death and ours simply differ.
Of course, Narc Angel. My comment to Jaya is posted now. You will see on my reply to Jaya that I don’t agree about the Karma idea, either. We view it differently in my culture and we don’t name it Karma.
Well, thank you very much for sharing your experience about the people that you have seen when they passed away. It must have not been easy for you to observe that.
I didn’t assume that you never witnessed a death of someone. I myself never witnessed a death of someone. And I don’t want to. The whole idea terrifies me. It happened when I was young I saw accidents on the street, many times. But my family always took me away from these scenes because they didn’t want my emotions to be hurt.
Addressing your first point, “how is it pertinent that you state the following”. Well, do you mean that how the stories that I heard from people, is related to what people are thinking during the moment of death?
Ugh, how can I explain this. Look, according to my belief (Islamic). At the moment of death, two things happen:
– First, there is a throe, before death. Everybody experiences it. The good, the bad, those who believe in God or atheists.
– Second, the moment were the angel of death arrive to take the person’s soul. And this is our point, were the soul of the good person is taken gently and the soul of the evil person is taken harshly.
And I suggest that people will not be able to think about a vibrator at that moment? Do they?
Your last point, “I suggest that sometimes we project what type of passing we feel they deserved onto them. It makes us feel better to think that good people pass well and comfortably because of a clear conscience and that bad people will come to some reckoning and atone.”
Again, it has nothing to do with the feelings. I stated above, that this is a belief that I follow and if I saw a bad person dying I will NOT think that he deserves to die in agony! Am not the person who punish people. God does. And you reminded me of one person who were extremely evil, I heard that he died while he was vomiting at the toilet. So, this is one example to show you that it has nothing to do with feelings. Or how we perceive the situation.
Any way what I said doesn’t devalues your point. Just to sum up, I rely on what I said on religious point of view. It has been studied and supported by scholars throughout the centuries for around 1400 years. It’s taught in schools here and my whole country believe on this point of view. I wonder how many people believe that at the moment of death, people think about the people they love or their vibrators.
I can become evil if I want, but, that’s why discipline and religion exist to stop us from committing such a thing.
Respects,
S
No. I meant that if you assert that it has nothing to do with what they were thinking at the end then what is the relevance to them either looking relaxed or distressed? The poker player was evil but he must have won his hand because he went quite happily, and yet the good woman (perception again of most) was terrified and went clutching and grimacing. Now someone else could interpret that as her loving life so much that she feared to leave. That is what I meant about us projecting what we think. It is our perception and religious teaching and conditioning of how they went and why. Our opinions differ vastly on this subject but I found yours interesting and thank you for sharing them all the same.
Narc Angel,
I don’t know about the Joker and the good girl. Isn’t he the one who always fights with Batman?! And that girl with him, I thought she is bad. I will go with you in the line, if you gave example from English Literature.
Anyway, forget about the debate. I was waiting for your reply to tell you this:
I actually pick you up to start a debate with you, because I was looking for a challenge. I have read somewhere in the blog that your point of view is likeable. So, I said, let me pick Narc Angel and see how she will hit on my comment. Usually people avoid debating with me as am very good at debating. However, I liked your style and I was also fishing to find out some of your personality traits, (I detected one). As am so interested in studying and analyzing personalities.
And yes, about the conditioning, I just held on the religious belief during the debate because it was a good way for me to strengthen my point. Am flexible, I can look to the world from Christian, Islamic, Ethiest, … etc point of view. Conditioning doesn’t effect me. I like Liberty approach, which is not accepted by my family. But I go with whatever fits to me. However, I do follow the basics of Islamic belief which I will never ever change, not because am not flexible but because it works for me and make me feel comfortable and happy.
All the best,
NarcAngel
I don’t have as much experience with dying people as you do. It has seemed to me that the ones I’ve known who were narcs seemed to cling longer to life, even in unconsciousness and pain, while the non-narcs seemed to slip away more peacefully.
I had formed a tentative hypothesis that narcs tended to hold on to life harder perhaps because of their unwillingness to give up control. Of course, sudden heart failure can not be fought off, but did your step-narc cling to life even in pain?
Hi Windy!
Haha that reminds me of a guy I met when I was very young. He could talk the legs off of a table and his last name was Windecker. When he was introduced to me he talked for about 15 minutes without a breath and then said: pleased to meet you-name is Windecker but they call me Windy for short. There was a whole group of older men (his age) around the table and I said to him: You know thats not really why they call you Windy right? There was silence for a minute while he looked confused and then the others burst out laughing. Then he said: well goddamn-out of the mouths of babes, which made us all laugh even harder. Anyhoo thats enough of memory lane……
After I read your post I thought geez, why DO I have more experience with people dying in my presence. I bet they hate to see me coming lol. StepNarc had lung cancer but he was as strong as an ox despite having
it for a couple of years. Never stopped him doing anything and I wondered if he had lied about having it at one point. In fact he walked into the hospital on a Friday asking to see a doctor with full intention of getting something for his chest and going home. No one in the family knew that he had even gone to the hospital. He never left and died on Monday. He had the nurse assist him in calling me on the Sat and I had no idea what was going on. All he said was: Im not good NA. Not good. I went to the hospital to see what was happening and to speak with the hospital staff who told me he did not have long, then called other family. He was annoyed and complained about the ineptitude of the doctor, and it wasnt long before he started speaking down to me (I wasnt adjusting the bed right, I should know not to have ice in his drink)etc. Thankfully my sister then arrived (one of “his” as he lovingly put it) as I was about to beat him to death with a bedpan. I still wonder why he called me first. Anyway…he declined physically over the 2 days and was coherent but refused to believe what was happening. He really believed he would be going home. At one point the nurse told me he had to be in pain but he did not register it. We each had time with him and I explained a little about our discussion in my letter. At that time he registered anger and some fear and I swear he wanted to live so that he could punish me. Even my mother was there. There were no apologies, no words of affection or love for anyone. He did say: You all came. Then he went. There was no sign of struggle or terror then. Long way I guess to say: he did cling to life (and control) by way of denying that the cancer would eventually take him and that he would never leave the hospital, but he did not appear to be fighting to stay or terrified at the moment of death. My sister was the only one who cried and I had to motion to my narc brother who was next to her (I could not get to her easily) to comfort his sister because that did not even occur to him. Quite a show.
Haha. Sorry for the book. What was your question again ?
NarcAngel
Thanks for your answer. I knew a narc who died of lung cancer, too. He was a tough, hard man, but he broke apart into a weepy mess when he saw the end near – crying and begging the doctors – at church begging God to spare him. He was terrified of death. We were all embarrassed for him.
He had no children, but his long-suffering wife took it very philosophically. She didn’t mourn or grieve and has seemed to live a very happy life since. Everyone was so very surprised that such a meek, quiet, frugal, shadow of a woman suddenly took all his rat-holed money and transformed into an assertive, smiling, fun-loving person who traveled and pampered herself.
It shocked me at first, too. I was thrilled to see her metamorphose into such an obviously happier woman, but saddened for all those years she’d obviously been stifled and subjugated.
Hello Jaya,
I agree with your point of view, generally. But I don’t agree about the karma part.
Religious resources support what you say. A lot of world’s religions share the same values.
Also, I understand that your intention might be to deliver a good advice to Mr. Tudor. I don’t think that you address it in a favorable way.
First, any person will not like it if someone told them; keep doing your bad habit and you will go to hell! Right?
Second, you sent your advice to Mr. Tudor and you know that he is a narcissist. So, remember there is grandiosity there, which are: Omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and perfection.
I think that the way you addressed your point challenged Mr.Tudor’s omniscience, especially that you said it in a challenging way.
So, the advice was good but the way you addressed it were not. If you still wish to prove your point to Mr. Tudor. I suggest that you use a different approach.
Best,
@Jaya – thanks for the insight. I believe that it’s more than karma arriving.
Jaya
Until you actually experience death you have no idea what happens.
Those that go out peaceful hold no fear of death, doesn’t matter what side of the fence one stands on. If you fear something it will show.
You also have those that believe what they want to see when a person dies.
When I took my husband off of life support the body reacts, I was called a murdered because they believed he was fighting to live because they saw his arms moved. My husband was brain dead. Now he feared death and his death was painful, yet it was his lifestyle that brought upon his death not Karma, but the choices he made.
I don’t believe in Karma, I believe it is the choices we make and ones ET uses it as an excuse to project and keep one comfortable instead of facing what is.
MBs two cents on the subject: I think humor is always an appropriate way to deal with things. I don’t get offended by it. If it’s purely humor. Now when people mask personal insults as humor, “I was only joking”, “Can’t you take a joke?” That’s not ok. But that’s not humor and that’s not what NA is. She is genuinely funny to me. Not everybody will “get” her and that’s cool with her and me. It’s all good. I enjoyed reading this discussion. I’ve never been with anybody when they died and don’t want to if I can help it.
I used to wear a baseball cap to work on occasion. Nothing special. Black with a Nike check. It handled bad hair days, occasional late nights out and the like.
When the N dragged me into his twisted world, he sent two pictures. One silly and funny with a baseball cap on. The second picture, his hand pulled the bill of the hat down as he gazed directly into the camera, gaze unwavering. I was always struck by this picture. At the time I was pulled into it. Seductive, intense.
The same eyes were used to put a manager into place as the N came to my rescue as a knight in shining armor.
Reading this gets under my skin every time. One of the hardest questions I had to ask myself was:
What was he mirroring back to me?
As per the See Saw blog, I was indeed weighted down. While I personally was fine, there were things around me that I could not fix.
What was reflected back to me was that longing for freedom, the ability to let loose and be wild. Free spirited, independent, fierce and intense I was rising and unable to pull up someone close to me out of their darkness. I am utterly devoted to this person, yet at that time was unable to do anything to help.
I remember those eyes.
They are the eyes made of lies.
I love your self-reflection regarding what you were longing for. Did the N provide you with an outlet so you felt safe being more wild etc?
Great comment!