5 Phrases The Narcissist Uses To Blameshift
It is fundamental that we remain unaccountable for our actions. One of the most effective ways of avoiding this accountability, provoking you and leaving you exasperated and stunned is to engage in blame-shifting. We are the blame shifters who will always use this form of manipulation in our ceaseless quest to maintain the upper hand.
Not only is it the case that we believe we are entitled to complete immunity for what we say and do, occasioned by our innate superiority, we also believe it to be necessary for us to be able to gather fuel as often and as effectively as we do. If we were slowed down by having to make meaningful apologies, explain ourselves, account for what we have done and accept responsibility for the consequences this would absorb time that would be far better spent in the pursuit of fuel. Hampering us in such a way would result in us becoming weaker since we would not be able to gather as much fuel as usual. It is therefore necessary, so we remain sleek, effective and light of foot, for us to never be concerned about accountability and also to never allow responsibility to rest with us. As with many of our machinations, this approach also allows us to gather fuel in itself by the imposition of blame on others, usually you and the astonished and outraged emotional response which then flows from this staggering act of walking away scot free. As ever, words are our best allies when it comes to throwing off the attempt to make us assume the mantle of responsibility. Here are five of our favourites.
- What do you expect me to do about it?
A delicious subtle piece of blame-shifting to begin with. We do not even state that we regard it as your fault, your responsibility or your liability with this question. Nevertheless, the implication is clear – we expect you to do something about it because we do not ‘do’ responsibility, your role is to clear up after us and you signed up to that role when you accepted our overtures. Did you miss that term of the contract? Don’t blame us, that’s your own fault.
I regularly brag about how brilliant and special I am. That I have many talents and if I so chose I could remedy many situations within moments, but notwithstanding this being the stance that I adopt to the world at large, I am not going to do that with you. Not a chance. I am not here to pick up the pieces after you, although I expect you to do so for me repeatedly. I can do as I like and you are obliged to make good the damage that I cause – collect the broken pieces of crockery, apologise to the shell-shocked friend after an outburst, try to solve the financial headache that we have left. If you have caused a problem, and let’s face it, it is always your fault anyway, you cannot expect me to do something about it. I am above such menial tasks. I have important and bigger things to attend to. Such as? I don’t have to explain myself to the likes of you. If I caused the problem (which in reality is usually the case) I am not going to do anything about it.
- Deal with it.
That’s the way it is and you had better get used to it. This haughty declaration is par the course for our sense of entitlement to do as we please. We bulldoze through everything and you just have to put up with it. You can’t walk away; we will not allow that to happen. Issuing this barked instruction at you is an effective way of upsetting you. It is telling you that you are useless and you should just be getting on with the situation rather than complaining about it. You shouldn’t be complaining; you should have already guessed that you needed to sort the situation out. Don’t ask me for help because I just do not have time for this mickey mouse nonsense.
- You caused this to happen.
We like to maintain that we act with the omnipotence of a god but how many times have you found that you have somehow caused something to happen so that it would suggest that you exercise the powers of a deity? My late arrival was down to you. My failure to remember something was caused by you. My infidelity for the sixth time was wholly as a consequence of what you have done. At its most brutal this declaration is issued without any explanation as to why it is that you caused the problem to arise. We say that it is the case therefore that must be right. Does this exchange seem familiar?
“Why is that the case?”
“It just is.”
“But why?”
“Because I say so.”
Other than our kind, who comes out with such assertions bereft of reality or explanation? That’s right, children. That tells you all you need to know about our mentality when we accuse you of being the one who has caused the problem. If you are “fortunate” enough to be given some kind of explanation it makes perfect sense when viewed from our perspective, although it will not from yours. That is deliberate. We want you to feel astonished, bewildered and annoyed at our sheer audacity to make the connection between our wrongdoing and your causation.
“If you were more loving I wouldn’t go elsewhere.”
“What do you mean by that? I couldn’t be anymore loving towards you.”
“Oh that’s right, deny it is anything to do with you and make me out to be the bad person.”
“Well, it is you who had the affair.”
“Caused by you.”
“How?”
“I have already told you and if you cannot accept that then there is no point continuing with this conversation.”
You get no answer no acceptance of blame. All you get is a tenuous (in your world but not ours) explanation as to why our wrongdoing is all down to you.
- Why do you have to spoil everything?
A cousin of the third shirking above but with an added layer of blame. In the above example, you have caused the problem although you may not necessarily have intended it. With this statement we are telling you that not only is the problem not of our doing, it is your fault and guess what? You meant to do it because you are such an awful and horrible person. Our rampant paranoia causes us to believe that you are out to get us, to topple us and that you are plotting to unseat us as a consequence of our behaviour towards you during devaluation. This is why whenever anything goes wrong you are the architect of that misfortune as you have purposefully set out to cause a problem for us, driven by your innate nastiness and jealousy.
- Why do you make my life so hard?
Poor us. Put upon by you and your terrible behaviours. This is often thrown at you when you begin to wise-up to our manipulations and either through choice or out of sheer exhaustion you are no longer engaging with our provocations and machinations. What we are actually saying to you here is, “Why do you make it so hard to extract fuel from you?” Your failure to play ball and do what we want is causing us to expend more energy in order to get the negative fuel from you and in accordance with our outlook as a victim, you are doing this on purpose. We need to get that fuel and you should be helping us, not hindering us, no wonder we lash out at you as we do because you are horrible and you make our lives far more difficult and hard than you should or once did.
136 thoughts on “5 Phrases The Narcissist Uses To Blameshift”
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Hi HG,
I was over at a friend’s house a few days ago and she rents out a room to Air BnB guests, and while I was there, a young couple arrived, and were pretty demanding, like, demanding to be put into the center, and talking how great they were … on the other hand they left the house in the evening without a single word, while we were sitting in the living room right next to the entrance, like … one word of “good-bye” would have been a normal thing to do …. they demanded stuff they hadn’t even booked (because it wasn’t offered).
Then, after they had left, my friend got a really bad review by the woman, saying, the bathroom had been dirty (it absolutely wasn’t), the bed had been uncomfortable (it’s a normal bed …), the kitchen had been untidy … (it wasn’t really, and they weren’t supposed to be in there in the first place!, while they refused the breakfast my friend was offering them for free!), there had been a strange smell in the house (*lol*), and they didn’t have the Wi-Fi password (no, they didn’t because they wouldn’t wait for my friend to retrieve it).
My question is: to me, the guy looked pretty narcissistic to me, like … a typical somatic narcissist, full of charm, toned body, carefully dressed, etc.. The very young girlfriend of his … (or actually wife, I think, though really young both of them), … pretty, but seemed rather normal. But she was the one talking about how great they were, and she was the one writing the bad review and coming off as a spoilt brat.
Why her?? I don’t understand this constellation, IF the guy thought he didn’t get the special treatment he deserved in my friend’s home … why would the wife write the review, and come to get the WiFi password, etc.? And why wouldn’t they book a fitting hotel room in the first place? My friend never said that her house was a five star hotel, and it was really cheap, like almost under hostel price.
ava101
What’s it all for? fuel, of course.
Through 2 N’s (the first one a LN, second one GN) every single day I said I’m sorry and took all the blame as well for all their shortcomings, blame shifting, accusations, rages, gas lighting, manipulations, times of degrading, not feeling like enough for neither. And the Greater’s favorite line was “It is what it is”.. like I was never worthy of any explanation whatsoever. I’ve come so far in my healing since I escaped the GN on May 8th. I’ve learned to not only forgive myself for falling victim/attracting/drawn to emotionally unhealthy individuals but to also apply as much research into myself as I do HG’s work and so far I’m extremely excited to remember,rediscover and reconnect to the young lady I was 25+ years ago. I AM enough, I DO matter, my feelings, thoughts, ideas and concerns ARE relevant, even if only to me. I’m also not even bitter that I lost all those potentially happy years with people more like my true self. The person I abandoned so many years ago, (hopefully never again) because without this experience, maybe I would have never particularly regarded my own value and respect I currently possess. A lot of times I feel like we were all chosen (targeted) for very specific reasons that perhaps go way beyond HG’s wonderful insights and honesty, but beyond even our own comprehensions. That magnet is so incredibly powerful but then again so is our outcome post escape or discard. (P.S. I’m not stupid enough to mistaken my progress thus far as completely healed..far from it, I know. I also cannot even try to imagine if I were to have an encounter with him face to face! Still going an hour in the opposite direction to avoid that scenario.)
My ex Lesser ordered a burner iPad whilst love bombing our marriage counselor that he had given up online dating. He had it arriving to the house on a day I was to be out of town. Surprise, it came early. as I retrieved it from the front porch…count down. 321…
Raging & pacing he proceeded to tell me – I had ruined everything!
He ordered it for me. ( I already had one)
Always a little truth in their lie. Once you catch on.
I wonder if it’s as exhausting to BE them as it is to BE WITH them.
Oh man Lesser was a master at this. I think I have the winning phrase!! Lesser (not the MRN I usually write about here) ‘accused’ me of having been sexually abused as a child, which was why I was so fucked up. He actually wrote it in a text. I was not sexually abused as a child and so of course I never told him I was sexually abused as a child…
I also was the ’cause’ of him looking for someone else because he had to get ‘validation’ and he wasn’t getting it from me. Three months after he moved out, he said if I had come back when he wanted me to, he wouldn’t be with someone else. Of course he had never asked me to come back at that particular time.
He used to leave me in the middle of the road and go home – he would always pick a fight. Then he would get angry at me for not wanting to go for walks with him. During STs he would take whatever gifts I had given him and put them outside the door or on a table top – somewhere where it was obvious that he was ‘discarding’ them (me). He attacked me twice, once in the middle of the night while I was sleeping because I had moved my legs and woken him up. After the 2nd attack, I kicked him out of the bedroom permanently.
His first wife once asked me if I had killed him and buried him in a car park yet. She did it at the youngest daughter’s wedding in front of the daughter. I don’t think that daughter was surprised when our relationship collapsed. Lesser has no friends. Zero. Only family and whatever woman w/kids (always with her kids) he has managed to leech onto.
Crazy land and true Jekyll and Hyde personality. He was a doll (if a bit of a complainer) until I moved in with him.
I think I escaped and then he discarded. I haven’t spent much time analyzing him – I didn’t even realize what he was beyond an emotional vampire before I got to this site more than two years later. But I can honestly say today that the ‘mistake’ of Lesser was just a blip. I went through three very hard months post escape/discard, much of it about guilt because he blame shifted so much, and that was it. Then I met MRN who pulled me right out of that funk. That is why I will always have a place in my heart for MRN no matter what. He never criticized me and rarely blamed me for anything. He just wouldn’t acknowledge it!!
i am very intrigued by the honesty and answering of this. i am an empath so this is all making a lot of sense to me and i know that its very rare for a self aware narc to speak publicly and so blunt. thank you
Hi HG a scenario question about the workplace ,I would love to know what you would do.
Do empaths find it hard to say No .I always feel as if I am mortally offending someone when I have to say no ,so I don’t.
Apart from ex narc I am noticing things in my workplace also.
I have always gone way beyond the call of duty in my job ,it’s a highly competitive professional environment full of massive egos and clever manipulation .I have had to adapt but I am Now feeling a shift in my mindset.
Today I was asked ( well it was implied) I should be prepared to carry out hours of extra curricular unpaid work again this yeAr.Its so good for the image of the workplace , you have great ideas etc etc.
I should jump at the chance to prove my worth again and be soooo grateful for my own job , that was the old mindset.
Now I’m thinking v differenly but people DONT like it .
Shocked colleagues said oh you must do it to keep up and get more work next year , don’t go against the boss whilst they sit back twiddling their thumbs.etc.I could never imagine someone saying that to you HG ,how would you react in such a situation.
I am secure in my job but not on a full time basis, they keep dangling that carrot of full time if I jump higher each year , others have floated along and still got full time.
I’m sick of that stupid attitude , it is causing huge amounts of anger and resentment in me .If I want to do something unpaid I will ,but I hate this twisted sense obligation that others are happy to push upon me.
I said No for myself ,my own health ,well being , now I’m going to get a backlash I just know it .Management dont work for free I assure you.Narcs are crawling everywhere and they hone in on me .
Nobody would ever dare to ask me to undertake extra curricular work without any benefit.
Ohh thank you , I really appreciate you answering that one.
Way to go HG ,I actually think that is a good thing you know.
The ones that do it actually ONLY do it for their own glory.or brown nosing I know thats an American term we use the term arse licker here haha.The very few genuine ones( who want to do it on their own terms ) then get totally turned off once they have been through a few rounds with the mega egos.
It’s the pretence I can see through now its kind of nausating.
This response really made me smile HG , not like simpering people who say oh you should in case ….. (something negative) or you dont want to offer your time blah blah .
What I dream of saying is Actually No I dont want to offer my time I have a bloody life.and I owe you all NOTHING.
Phew that felt good.
Thank you Hg : )
What set that precedence for them to never ask you? What happened in the past if they did? Sounds like there is a learning opportunity for all of us to gain on this little nugget!
Good question Clarece about how HG has “trained” those in his life not to ask him to do work without a benefit to him. I imagine the answer is “it’s complicated” is why he didn’t answer. I’m still hoping for that reader interview. I really think it will happen. Add it to your list of questions!
Boundaries, people! Do not let narcs walk all over you and do not work for free!
I completely agree SMH. My empath sister would clock-off and work for free and I thought she was absolutely nuts!
K, I am luckily in a profession where I do not clock in or out, and where I can work remotely most of the time, so I cannot really even imagine. But I have experienced getting tons of work dumped on me – in fact just two days ago I got a very passive aggressive email (it is the UK after all) and I had to wait 24 hours so as not to bite their heads off. I did, but in a very passive aggressive way and I won. Something like what NarcAngel wrote – say please and thank you, and stab them in the gut at the same time. It’s what I did with MRN too. Fight fire with fire! 🙂
Unfortunately, I don’t have the same kinds of boundaries with people (obv) as I do with work stuff.
SMH
I am happy you won. Put those boundaries up and feel no guilt. I wish more people were like you and NA. My sister would clock-off, do the work and then complain about it?!? This went on for months. I was baffled and I couldn’t understand why she just didn’t say, “No.” (lack of boundaries and guilt)
NA is right: Say please and thank you and stab them in the gut. Fight fire with fire. Although it can be difficult to erect boundaries with people we connect with in our personal lives, it becomes second nature the more you replace your ET with LT.
I needed this now, K, so thank you. I have a date with someone this evening who is all kinds of right and all kinds of wrong. My anxiety levels are through the roof. I know he is not a narc but this is the point where I would always go running back to MRN. Breathe. LT. Breathe. LT. Breathe. LT.
My pleasure SMH
Remember to breath and use your LT, however, life is short so have fun!
That is my attitude too, K. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who are lonely and looking for someone to save them. I don’t want to save anyone and I don’t want to be saved. Guy turned out to be all kinds of wrong.
Life is so short and people like to wallow in misery SMH. Save yourself; run fast!
I had that date, K, and it was not great. I got out of there. The guy seemed needy. I really missed MRN on the way home for the first time in a long time. What did I miss? That we clicked so instantly and were always content together. I did this all last year – went on dates, walls went up, ran back to MRN – this is the first date I have been on since ending it with him and I was hoping the pattern had broken. I hope my LT stays intact and I do not break NC now…danger zone.
SMH, the date was useful as a barometer to know you’re just not ready yet. That’s all. Give it a little more time and try again. Don’t break no contact. If you do, that head vs heart clock will start all over again. MRN is not “the one”. Turns out, neither is needy guy from the date. Next candidate please!
LOL, MB. Of course you are right, though I think I am ready. The guy just didn’t do it for me! Simples! He came on way too strong and I wasn’t attracted to him. I stood up to him. Maybe this was what happened last year: I wasn’t putting walls up because of MRN. I just wasn’t meeting the right person, so I’d use MRN as an excuse and not stand on my own two feet. I was being very codependent.
In any case, this morning MRN is not in my head and I’ll go back to the trenches. I hate dating, which is how I got involved with MRN. First apparently suitable person to come along for what I thought was a fling. Not looking for that now so I am more serious and more thorough.
SMH, I’m glad to hear you didn’t break no contact. I’m not qualified to give any dating advice. I’ve never done it!
MB, I have never really done it either as I have always been in a relationship. I hate it. I am very social but fine alone too (not lonely) so if I am in the mood, I’ll go on a date.
SMH
Curious. Did you find yourself comparing the men to your ex N while you were on the date, or you just lamented afterword that they were not like him and missed him?
NarcAngel, Neither. MRN was totally different in all ways from my usual type. He was a hedge fund manager, preppy, very left brained.
I think because he pulled me right out of my funk when my previous relationship ended, I used him as a security blanket so that I did not have to go out into the world and deal. That’s what’s going on when I miss him after a bad or so-so date. I want my blankie! I am fine this morning so it was just a blip.
I dated a lot of the time we were together since he was married, but the only person I was semi-serious about apart from him suddenly died of a heart attack in June, two weeks after my sister died. One wonders how I function but here I am. Alive!!
After I left narc, I began to realize that I do not know who I am because I have always been with someone and taken a lot of my cues from them. I am perfectly fine alone and am pretty clear now about what someone else needs to bring to the table. I don’t think I’ll be a sucker again for someone needing to be saved or not respecting my boundaries/wishes.
Funny though when I tell these dates about MRN, which I often do because one talks about relationships to figure out where and who the other person is, they are all shocked. I guess MRN really was an outlier.
SMH
Ah, I understand the blanket. I am sorry to hear that you have lost people close to you recently, but glad to hear that you are still up for meeting new people and okay this morning after your experience.
Thank you, NarcAngel. It helped put things in perspective with MRN, at least for awhile.
SMH
Neediness is a red flag! I had a Dirty Angel who was wicked needy and I never understood how he could be so pitiful ALL the time. Run!
My MMRN mirrored me so well that we clicked and got along famously and I was content until all hell broke loose.
Keep reading and posting so you don’t break NC, that is what I had to do to get my ET under control. You have to beat the ET out of you with LT.
Thanks for your support, K!
I ran and now he is emailing me (fake email – I did not give him my last name or phone number). “Sorry” (because he was a jerk). Last night he said to me “I think we could have been good for each other” – I said to him, “how dare you say that to me as if I don’t know my own mind.” “Can we stay in touch?,” he writes. I just won’t respond.
I will stay here so as not to break NC. It’s going to be rough. MRN has been in my head a lot today because of the date last night, because it is that time of year when summer holidays are over, and because there are branches of his workplace everywhere. I never noticed them before he started working there (in a different country).
My pleasure SMH
Yeah, he sounds hinkey; stay away. Those branches are ever presence and that can make NC so challenging. It can be an epic struggle. Keep reading and posting through it.
K, I had to look up ‘hinkey.’ New one on me. But it fits. Next!
SMH, it was so smart of you not to give him your real email address! If he’s not a narc, he will give up quickly. I hope 🤞
It’s fun story time, MB!
I am cautious because last year I met someone on the tube in London (let’s call him ‘tube dude’) just as MRN and I were on a downward spiral. We chatted on the way out. He was in finance and going to a party in my posh neighborhood. He asked for my number. I did not see the harm since he only knew my first name (I removed my last name from WhatsApp). We met for dinner and had a decent time but nothing in common. He asked to see me again. I said to myself ‘we don’t really have much in common but what the hell.’ We went to a pub in the middle of the day and then for a walk in town. He got very aggressive and needy. Then he started acting like he owned me. He ended up calling me and shouting at me because I would not see him again. I blocked him.
Then I left the country for four months (NC with MRN, who was stalking me on LinkedIn the whole time). When I returned, I was switching phone numbers and fussing with my contacts. I must have unblocked tube dude and he must have been watching because right at that exact moment he started texting me. I responded ‘who is this?’ (his name was no longer attached to a number). He responded ‘what? you forgot already?’ (as if we’d had some wild romance). I then recognized the image attached to the phone number and knew who it was. Right then he called me. I did not answer, and blocked and deleted him, but I did worry that he would track me down. Thankfully, he did not know my surname or where I work, and we had never communicated by email.
Also, I was really dumb with MRN because our kids and I all went to the same school so I thought I ‘knew’ him. From the get go, he had my real email and my real name, and he knew what I did and where I worked. Two weeks later, when he came back from a business trip, he also knew where I lived. Of course later it didn’t matter, since we were involved for two years, but I took no precautions with him at all.
This latest guy – let’s call him ‘frustrated artist,’ has not tried again. I didn’t respond to his email. However, coincidentally, we will be on the same small island next weekend. (It could only happen to me.) I’ll stay on the boat I’ll be on, with the big muscly guy who owns the boat, only venture as far as the dock and the nearest beach, and make everyone else bring me food. They will understand.
So far, the closest I have come to a serial killer is MRN. Same brain structure – but not violent :-).
SMH, you sure do lead an exciting life! Maybe you can make it with “big muscly guy” on the boat; or at least make ‘frustrated artist’ believe y’all are an item while docked on the island. You’ll have to give us the 411. Maybe frustrated artist will decide not to go.
MB, Big muscly guy is on his third or fourth wife, and she will be there thank goodness, because he is definitely a firecracker. But he is very generous and his boat sleeps six. The rest of us will be women. He will like that and he will also find my story about frustrated artist amusing!
Or maybe a hurricane will blow in and none of us will go anywhere!
I hope y’all have a great time SMH. I need a generous big muscly guy to take me to islands! 🌴 I’m praying for no hurricanes!
Thanks, MB! I am lucky in life, so let’s hope the hurricanes hold off.
Looks like I have another date this week too – mad scientist with hair to match. I will keep y’all posted with my dating diaries!
SMH, We can call this one ‘Albert’ ha ha
Yes, MB! Perfect. Albert has already emailed (fake email) and is figuring out where we can meet. I told him I had to go out and not to get offended if I don’t respond right away. We’ll see.
I once almost had a date with a guy who had called me (rare these days). I did not put his name/number in my contacts because I had not met him yet. He called again and I did not know who it was. He got offended and then blew me off. Let’s call him Joe Blow :-).
I am laughing so much I’d better leave before I respond to Albert with something inappropriate. He has already sussed out whether I like musical theater. Luckily, I saw Hamilton!
K and NarcAngel
Y’all have made me laugh! I’m sitting here at my desk at school grading papers for the last 4 hours. I’ve been coming in to work as a free teacher’s aide ever since I retired 2 1/2 years ago! Ha, ha, Ha!
Of course this was entirely my idea to do as charity work and I come in only on the days I choose. I think that’s what makes the difference. There’s nothing wrong with working for free as long as you CHOOSE to do it and don’t feel pressured or obligated in any way. In order for working for free to be healthy, I think you have to do it purely because it makes you feel good inside – not because of what anyone else thinks, wants or says.
WS
Ha ha ha…volunteer work is completely different. For the past 20 years most of my work has been volunteer work and I work in the school library for free. I will take volunteer over paid work any day because you are free to choose when and how long you work and, if you don’t like it, you can just leave.
Absolutely!
I second that. This is where the narcissistic traits come in handy. How can you feel bad about saying no to someone who is crossing your boundaries or trying to manipulate you? Its called respect. People will not respect you if you do not defend your own boundaries.
Early on when asked I would offer the following:
Thank you, but I prefer to keep my charitable contributions separate from my place of employment.
Thank you, but I think this is a better opportunity for those who have yet to reach my/our skill level to showcase their talents and gauge if additional assistance or training is required.
Do I have a sign on my ass that says:
For Rent?
I was not asked after awhile. This is not to say that I did not contribute. I did, but it was at my choosing. Obviously the responses depended on who was asking and with humour or deadpan after assessing the situation.
I know, right MB?! There’s a story dying to come out of HG “in the workplace”. Kind of like the saga we got on Valentine’s Day.
I’ve been collecting questions here and there for a possible interview. It’s up to HG though.
Clarece, hopefully he will land long enough for you to pin him down one of these days. Otherwise you may have to interview a moving target!
He’ll make time no matter what as long as he deems it beneficial for him and the blog.
The tricky part is actually coming up with the right questions that I think many of us here would want to know and that he’ll enjoy discussing. It won’t be too entertaining if I get a lot of caveman answers like yes, no, or better yet, “next question MLA”. 😉
Answering a question ‘yes’ or ‘no’ provides the answer. It is the fault of the questioner for asking a closed question rather than an open one. It is not ‘caveman’ it is providing the answer and doing so succinctly.
Example
“Do you think Donald Trump is a good president?” – closed question – thus yes or no answers the question.
“What do you think of Donald Trump as president?” – open question which invites a more expansive response.
Lollll…you know I like teasing you about that!!
I actually did acknowledge that asking the right questions (in the right way) is what will make or break the interview. Heat is all on me! 😉
Caveman responses! LMAO! It must be a guy thing, narc or non-narc. 😉
Or maybe you women talk too much!
Ha ha ha…that was really funny; I concur.
* inserts grunt noise here * LOL. 😉
I’ll take HG’s brief, succinct answers any day over my male narc’s inability to give a straightforward or one word answer…in formal emails he is one of the most verbose, stupidly flowery writer that I know…professional parties involved have read his responses and then turned to me asking “What did he just say?” Only, at the same time, in stereo, I asked the same thing to the professional: “What did he just say?”
“It must be a guy thing, narc or non-narc.”
I have to disagree. As for my narc, I’ve never known anyone who could convey so much of absolutely nothing.
And try to get an answer to a closed question – ha! Yes or no? 7:00pm or 7:30pm? Hahaha. He is the King of the ‘non-answer.’ (Even when for the sake of the facade, he just cannot do it…that would be giving up too much control or, God forbide, it would actually *resolve* a conversation.
(Fuel on the Shelf – don’t take this personally – I’m so pissed at my narc right now – he seriously cannot see what an idiot he looks like atm and I soooo want to tell him…but I won’t. So it’s either, hyper-ventilate or rant somewhere else…)
I’m obliged.
“As for my narc, I’ve never known anyone who could convey so much of absolutely nothing.”
This must be why mine uses tons of large vocabulary words.
My MRN talked up a storm but writing was another matter. For every two word answer of his, he got five pages from me!
SMH,
My MRN is the same. Encyclopedias from me. 2-4 word responses from him. I pointed it out once and he said…”Oh my darling girl, I am capable of just as much encyclopedic rhetoric as you are….”
Is it sad I still wait for it? Yeah that is me placing way too much emphasis on his words yet again.
FOTS, I once asked my MRN if he minded emailing. It was his chosen form of communication but he’d barely write anything, though he’d barely write anything all the time. I also asked him if he minded that I used so many !!! and ??? and he laughed and said no, that he thought it was funny. I guess it was lots and lots of fuel!!
SMH, they always contradict themselves. My MRN used to like emailing me. Then he hated it. He also used to like recording mini video and audio clips of himself talking about whatever. Then he didn’t like it.
And my all-time classic example…”I hate talking on the phone”.
Me: “We used to talk on the phone for HOURS.”
Him: “Well I am getting antisocial the older I get…”
It is always for fuel.
FOTS, The last thing mine said to me in person was ‘I’ll call you.’ He has never called me in his life. His phone would suddenly turn into the enemy – but it’s my work number and the only one I have. Everything is recorded (said once when I joked that he should send me a pic from his office). Of course if HE wanted to call, text, email, send pics all day, then the phone was his friend.
FOTS, I have to add that those few words were like crack to me. Hell, he could have sent a blank email and it would have been like crack.
SMH…
I hear you. Those words are like crack to me too. In fact I stop referring to them as crumbs and started referring to them as crack!
Even the passionate throes of intimacy with him are like snorting a line of crack!
I should have prefaced that by saying that I don’t actually know what snorting crack feels like but I can only imagine it’s probably less addictive than what I feel!
FOTS, Me neither with crack but yes with other drugs and I know this was a classic addiction all wrapped up with sex.
He had similar reactions to my emails. On the rare occasion I didn’t answer immediately, he’d get destabilized and preoccupied, just like me. Also, if I’d reach out innocently after periods of NC or just to say hello, he’d get all hot. He told me about it before I told him, so he was not mirroring me. I used to think the sex part was why he shelved me and was so terse. Now I know it was also about manipulation. The more he manipulated me and the more confused I got, the more exciting it was for him.
It was kinda sick, and not in a good way but I don’t think he was entirely aware. In real life he did not withhold and was not terse.
Our inability to break the addiction cycle is basically why I told him we could not be in touch, even as friends, unless he left his marriage. When he ignored me and all hell broke loose, I turned email into a weapon and then I made him delete it all from his inbox. It was the only way. I haven’t looked at any of our emails since.
Wait…What? You think I talk too much? I don’t think I talk too much? Why do you think that? I would hate for you to think that. It would make me sad. I just like to hear your voice and what you think. I don’t mean to rattle on and on. If you wouldn’t pull away so much, then I wouldn’t feel like I have to reel you back in. So and so at work thinks I come up with great ice breakers at meetings. I wish you thought that. Maybe you’re missing out on great conversation. You can’t really think I talk too much…
(all said in 15 seconds without taking a breath).
This conversation reminds me of large corporations that like to guilt employees into working at charity events that they splash their name all over for PR.
WhoCares,
that sounds wordsalad-y, no?
I haven’t read much about it, but I theorize for myself it is one of the perfect vehicles to put a bunch of important or deep sounding concepts together so that I can project upon it whatever of my own positive, well-intentioned ideas suit me at the time. So he creates a mirror this way?
While sounding articulate and complex. And I’m the idiot who might hand over my feelings, ideas, hopes and complexities through the naivety of my own projections, patience and optimism.
Not sure if there is an in depth explanation on here from HG, I’ll look for something.
What I’ve noticed for some of them is that underlying what they are saying is actually sometimes a linear logical thought process, simple as A+B=C
and when I look at whatever that conclusion they are putting forth is, it’s actually simplistic, caveman thinking that is of course self-serving and therefore blind to large parts of actual reality and blatant black and white thinking that is outlandishly selfish. Like a giant “fuck you”.
It’s difficult to be with someone who is like this and then throw in the mix that their profession and schooling is in the field of psychology … the numbnuts will find it delicious to use clinical jargon to make you certifiable. Oh yeah … that’s certainly one level of hell I don’t recommend anyone to fall into. I’m certain this is a level of psychological warfare. I just don’t know which subset just yet because I’m waiting for him to tell me. Ya’know, I wouldn’t want to be incorrect …
Mine tortured me with ” Go on for fuck sake, I know you better than you know yourself” Those words still haunt me. Over time he wore me down to the point where he did know me better than I knew myself. I had no idea who I was either.
I have come to realize time is the greatest gift to help you grow yourself again.
Kensey
“Time heals all wounds.”
❤️TY windstorm
Pale Horse I’m sorry you are not doing well! I was on anxiety medication for many years, this year I decided I was done with it! I feel so much better without it. Unless they have walked in your shoes they will never understand the hurt or the bullshit you have had to endure! So many bloggers on here can help you through this! I’m sure once they read your comment they will all jump on board to help! I still have days that I have trouble getting through, the tears just pour out of my eyes! I come to the blog at those times not to comment but to read all the comments of people who get it! The people who understand exactly what I have been through! Please do ask for help if you need it! Perhaps a consult with HG would help. His logical thinking is usually the shot in the arm that I need! I hope you start to feel better soon! It takes some of us longer then others, but you will get through it! My thoughts and prayers are with you! 🌻
Thank you for your kind words FM1T. I was doing well for awhile but then it hit me out of nowhere. I think that having two months off this summer has not helped. Too much free time. And now that I’m divorced, I am essentially starting life over again.
Staying busy always helped me. Yes I can understand how having that much time off may not be good for you! My mind always does strange things when I’m alone and not continuously doing something! Don’t think of it as starting over again! Your life is continuing on to its next phase! Give yourself the time you need to heal. Please be good to yourself. Remember your grieving, of course the person is not dead, but they are gone from your life. So you will go through the grieving process just the same. Take care Pale Horse ( I love horses btw!) you will get through this! You can do this! Try to have a good weekend please. 🌻
woot! congrats on your new freedom! Single and ready to mingle B-)
Correction, it is about the loss of the illusion. It’s about being lifted higher and higher, and then hitting the ground. It is about not knowing if you are coming or going and attempting to counter the latter each day. It is about acting outside of your own value system in order to keep the peace. It’s about hopes and dreams shattered even if such were based on a false premise. It is about having to keep moving forward because there is no other choice. Its is about a journey to heaven just to be dropped back into the hell you arose from. It is about having all of your fears removed only to have to face them once again. It’s about trying to figure out what to fucking do next and how to keep healing.
Hey Pale Horse
Such a poignant paragraph and I’m sure it resonates with many…. it does for me anyways.
Don’t give up on finding an appropriate counsellor or psychologist….. someone experienced in trauma and abusive relationships- not an easy task but certainly achievable. Even if it takes a few tries to find one you connect well with.
Have you read Exorcism? A must read for an IPPS… I was one myself. Though I had the distinct pleasure of battling 2 fronts simultaneously- personal and professional, for about 18months….. what fun times they were.
Hey TT
I have Exorcism is my Kindle library but have only been able to browse through it. I will give it a full read tonight. I’m waiting for my new health insurance to kick in before I find a therapist but I may just have to pay out of pocket until then.
Dearest Pale Horse,
My illusion was broken when I was very young …. it took me til now to realise it
I discovered Mr Tudor 3 years ago …. I’m still here, I’m still healing, I’m still learning
“Breathing” …… was my life line …. because …it finally took its toll and I ended up in hospital
I survived
You are not alone
My heart is aching for you right now
Please please …. it does and will get better
You have to want it to
Don’t give up
You have our full support here
No one is worth this suffering
Luv Bubbles xx
Dear Bubbles,
The breathing exercise is helping. I noticed how shallow my breathing had become. Also, I am trying to drink more water now rather than caffeinated beverages. I am truly grateful for your advice and support. Thank you so much!
Pale Horse
“Its is about a journey to heaven just to be dropped back into the hell you arose from. It is about having all of your fears removed only to have to face them once again.”
That is what stood out to me, and I cant help but think thats where the answer lies. She only offered you respite for a time from the ‘’hell’’ you arose from and the ‘’fears’’ you had but they remain unresolved. You were able to avoid them and push them away when you were focused on her. Now they are back and demanding to be addressed. I understand that you are tired and the last thing you want is to engage in another battle, but this time it is with yourself and you are in control, so the outcome is guaranteed to the extent of your efforts. Time to invest in yourself what energy and emotion you were willing to put into her?
Not very uplifting I know, but necessary I think for you to actually have peace, instead of trying to keep the peace with someone who is controlling it.
You are tired but not broken. You will do this. I am rooting for you.
NA
NA,
I think that she gave me a sense of safety and security (albeit false) that I had never really had and was seeking. With her, I did not have to worry about much. She also afforded me opportunities and experiences that I had not had prior to my relationship with her. She was from a higher SES and introduced me to a world I had never known or may never know again.
Thanks for your support. This is truly a difficult time…
Pale Horse, do exactly what you are doing! Be angry,be confused, be sad, it is all part of the hell you must go through! You will get through it and you will heal! Keep moving forward and don’t look back! Baby steps toward that light at the end of the tunnel! You will see it and you will take control again! Be good to yourself dear one! 🌷
You summed up the emotions so well Pale Horse. And a lot of therapists are pure trash. They should be ashamed for taking your money. I’m glad you reached out here. Kisses to HG for putting you through so that you can be supported even though it was fuel Friday.
Hugs to you Pale Horse! Cry it out. Scream it out. And please, for the love of God, don’t feel like you are weak for taking meds for anxiety.
Thanks MB. I’m glad I reached out as well. Hugs to you too!
My pleasure, Pale Horse
And I am happy that you liked the song. The lyrics really hit home with this type of abuse.
Everyone is right in saying that people will not understand what we have been through because they have not lived it. Talked to a so called professional yesterday because of anxiety. Was told there was nothing she could do for me. That I just have to feel what I am feeling. When I was explaining to her what I have been through, I could feel her thinking “why are you crying about her if she has done these things to you.” Its not about the loss of the illusion, I was crying because of all I have endured. Not doing so well at the moment…
Pale Horse
Not being understood is one of the most frustrating aspects of NPD abuse and the aftermath. You would think that a professional would be able to offer suggestions on how to alleviate anxiety. You have been through hell and back and it would have been really helpful if she actually listened to you.
Last year, when I was really cranky, I happened to hear this song on the radio and, although I don’t listen to a lot of country western, I really needed this song at the time. Don’t feel obligated to like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l50L4GYhpLc
I am truly sorry for what you are feeling. Pick any circle in Hell and I will meet you there and we will go through the darkness together. “We will get out before the Devil even knows we are there.”
You will be in my thoughts tonight.
Thank you, K.
Great song K. Thank you for that. I appreciate you and everyone on this site.
KK, one of my favorites! If you’re going through hell keep on moving. You are the epitome of resilience. What a treasure you are.
I’ve been watching for the FedEx guy to bring the narcissism you sent me. Can you give me the tracking number? I’m kidding. But I can feel the positive energy of everybody here. Even if one does not respond, the energy they exude just from reading the posts is powerful. Narcsite is proof that it really is the thought that counts. I’ve never felt so supported in my life. Truly, this is a special place. Thank you HG for building it. It’s one of those beautiful unintended outcomes.
Thank you MB
That is a very good song if you are having a bad day. Damn the Devil to Hell, I say! That box of narcissism should be arriving any day now and I sent you some of the Devil’s Lettuce in a brownie. Enjoy!
KK, a box of narcissism and good time brownies. It doesn’t get any better than that. Life is good!
Damn straight MB!
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Positive energy, Pale Horse. Hang in there. You’re in a low spot, but you’ll come back out of it.
Keeping you in my thoughts.
Thanks, Windstorm.
Dear Pale Horse,
I’m so sorry to hear your professional was of no help. Quite understandable however, same as the ones I went to. They’re as useless as “breasts on a bull”
I found ….. “Baby” steps first. Breathing is crucial. You need to correct your breathing. I found “anxiety” creates shallow breathing from the top half of the chest .
( we don’t know we are doing it .. we have to inhale fully, so our tummy expands… its takes practise and concentration) slow and easy does it … breeeeeaaaaaathe slowly in … hold, count to 7 let that belly rise …… and release….. sloooooooowly count to 7 ….. release
Repeat as many times to feel the difference until it becomes natural to you
Some form of “distraction” away from the questions going around in your head is the next step
Can you involve yourself in some physical activity, walking, running, gym, Pilates, yoga , gardening, cleaning out your wardrobe or a general spring clean, cooking, sewing, reading, studying, listening to good stimulating music (not sad reminiscing stuff) … just to name a few
I tried all the “natural” stuff to take …. valerian, magnesium, blah blah (the effect wears off and sometimes has the opposite effect) Healthy eating is essential.
Windstorms recommendation of cherry tart juice …. brilliant …. Mr Bubbles is hooked on it
Self indulgent self care is very important
I hope this helps a little
Let us know how you go with the breathng
Luv Bubbles 😘Xx
Bubbles
That’s a lot of good, practical advice!
Thank you so much Bubbles. This helps very much.
Dear Pale Horse,
Sorry …. I forgot to mention …. hydrate ….. very very important
Plain Water or with lemon, honey , cinnamon, tumeric however you like it …. hydrate
Not too much coffee wine etc makes your heart race… trust me … haha
Luv BubblesXx
Pale Horse
I’m glad you came to tell us about your heartache, and your struggles. We care about you and understand how it is.
You’re doing everything you can to make each day a personal best, to push through the pain barrier, and to deal with the enormous stress of it all.
We are proud of you.
We all know that you are the total package.
Hope this encourages you a bit.
Caroline,
Thank you for the encouragement. I don’t know what I would do without this site and all of you. This is definitely a rough journey but I am hopeful I will make it through.
Pale Horse,
I am sorry to hear you are not doing well. Take everyone’s advice but here is what worked for me when I was where you are with Lesser and exhausted by my own mind (I did not have this site back then): I went to a GP and paid out of pocket for valium so I could think straight, and then went to a talk therapist. It might help you to do the same. Don’t go to a psychiatrist (they will put you on all kinds of poison). Go to a regular GP, get some valium or xanax or whatever, and then see a therapist/ psychologist. It is expensive but you have to make your healing a priority. Do not let what happened derail you. There is life afterwards and you will get through it. As someone once posted here: if you could only imagine the good things that will happen, the great person you will finally meet, the fine life you will have.
You have so much going for you. You do NOT have to feel what you are feeling. You can detach a bit and work through it without suffering as much as you are suffering.
Please check back in and let us all know how you are doing. We are here for you!!!
SMH,
Thanks for the good advice. I actually saw a NP and she said she did not want to prescribe me any medication as I am grieving and she believes it is best to have to feel and sit with the anxiety. I am working on getting in to see someone else. Logically, I know a better life awaits. It’s just that emotional thinking….
PH, what a bitch! Sit with your anxiety? WTF!?! Good for you finding somebody else.
I agree, MB and Pale Horse. No one should have to ‘sit with anxiety’ and leave their life to one side. Absurd!! Makes me angry.
Pale Horse, I had to go around the system in the UK. The NHS will just throw you some anti-depressants even though you are not depressed. I felt I just needed to calm my brain down. Luckily the doctor didn’t have a problem with it. Insist if you have to but anti-anxiety meds can really help you to collect your thoughts, stop the obsessions, and move forward. HG can probably do the same thing, though! Ironically, he is an anti-anxiety med unto himself!
SMH and PH yes, HG and his writing do have a calming effect on me as well.
I think that NP should just “sit” with her strep throat infection or UTI. No drugs necessary. Just grieve it, feel it.
It’s not the NPs fault though. One who’s never been consumed by anxiety has no way to know how bad it feels.
LOL MB, and yes HR does have that effect but then my MRN also had it. He was as good as valium. It’s a fine line between depending on and becoming addicted to HG 🙂
SMH my MRN did too! I don’t know for sure what it is. I don’t depend on HG, but addicted? Yes I am.
I don’t know what it is either, MB, but mine was extraordinarily calm. He never worried about anything. He had no fear. He didn’t react. I guess all that was because he wasn’t really ‘there’!
SMH, yes! No worry, no fear, no nervousness. Embarrassment? What is that? Butterflies? No idea what you’re talking about. Oh to be 10 ft tall and bulletproof for just one day!
Yep MB. That is why we are so persistent. We want to pierce that armour thinking there must be a person under there. Poor baby is so repressed. I’m gonna be the one to free him from his cage! Not!
I used to tell mine that he was IN the world but I was OF the world. Big difference.
SMH, there are human “beings” and then there are human “doings”. They are the latter. We are not the only ones objectified. They are objects to themselves as well. Read the article Ex Machina.
It’s not that they are not human. They very much are (or were), but humans have weaknesses and can be imperfect, damaged, and wounded. That cannot be allowed to happen. They must drive forward and keep doing and doing. If they have achievements and accomplishments they can be measured by those things outside themselves and not have to look at the imperfect human that is pushed so deep down, he/she will never see the light of day again.
I will read that piece, MB. It sounds very sad. We all repress but taking it out on other people is a different story…
“Toxic shame is experienced as the all pervasive sense that I am flawed and defective as a human being.”
“the self becomes an object of its own contempt, an object that can’t be trusted.”
“Good feelings and self-validation lie on the outside. They can never be generated from within.”
The cause is the same for both of us. The defense mechanism is where we differ. You (the narcissist) stand up by pushing others down. I try to stand up by knocking myself down. I assume I’m at fault, you assume the world is at fault. I am the one that suffers the MOST from my internalized shame. You are the one that suffers the LEAST from yours. Your defense is total and effective, fit for purpose. Mine? You can hardly call that a defense can you?
MB, Where are those quotes from? I looked at Ex Machina but I had read it before. It is the one with the short ‘I’ sentences, isn’t it?
Yes we are like gentle lambs to the slaughter. Not because we are all such ‘good’ people but because we have few externalized defenses and don’t know what is happening.
SMH, mostly from John Bradshaw. ‘Healing the Shame That Binds You’ He wrote several books. He is now deceased.
He talks about what causes one to internalize shame. Some develop emotional disorders like anxiety and depression. Others develop character disorders like BPD and NPD. The root cause is the same although, naturally the severity of the abuse varies greatly. It is the self turning on itself and the defenses that are put in place to keep the authentic self from being exposed.
Realizing it’s there and healing it are two different things. And, in the case of NPD, the defense is so total, the chances of healing are next to nil. Plus, there’s nothing to be healed. It’s already done.
I wish I knew what caused my MRN to have so much shame, MB, but I think part of what attracts us to them is that they don’t feel anything and seem to unaffected. At least that was partly what attracted me to MRN. I probably would have run in the other direction had I know he was struggling with some deep rooted problem. It’s a no win situation.
SMH, I referenced the ‘Ex Machina’ article as demonstration of the objectification of self by the narcissist. To be human is to be the embodiment of weakness. I don’t know if others find it with the narcissists they know, but in my experience, they are rarely sick. In fact, I can’t think of a single time. Even the victim N I know is as healthy as a horse although he feigns otherwise. Like everything they do, it’s mind over matter. Human doings, not human beings driving ever forward in the pursuit of fuel.
MB, yes clear from that piece. They treat themselves like machines and need to be well oiled all the time. My MRN had on cold in all the time I knew him and he traveled to developing countries all the time. My L was a hypochondriac and had all kinds of ailments – sleep problems, digestive problems, and on and on, mostly related to drinking.
Call HG Pale horse. Deep understanding takes you out of this! Its possible believe me, to feel only joy that you have left behind all bad people in your life.
Yup. Just paid for a consult. Looking forward to it.
So am I.
I’m glad you did Pale Horse. I wish I could have HG on speed dial!
Right! Each one I have had has been extremely helpful.
“This is just where we both are in life and that is just how it is”.
On point as usual.
“Because I said so,” heh. Yes, Daddy, I will willingly touch this here molten lava at your command. There’s no heat radiating off this neon goop seeping from that smoke-spewing massive chunk of rock, no sir. That sulfurous smell? I’m imagining it, surely. And if it leaves me with third degree burns? I totally had it coming, what idiot would touch lava, right?
Self-preservation is for quitters, apparently. Unless you’re the narcissist, then you’re the exception to every rule.
There is another phrase “I am sorry you feel that way”
There is another phrase “I am sorry you feel that way”
I lost count of the number of times I heard that one!
HA! JN”s favorite form of apology… “I’m sorry you feel that way.” The subcontext is there is something wrong with you for feeling the way you do.
Clarece,
Just the other day it was…. “You need to be reminded again that when you try to (harmlessly) coax an affirmative response out of me it makes me not want to answer you…”
What a nice wordy way of saying “I need to be in control at all times”.
And my current favorite…. “Well, we are where we are in life and that is just how it is” the cousin of “I am sorry you feel that way”. After all throwing around the word “sorry” (even when it is not meant) is way too polite.
That first line about harmlessly trying to get an affirmative response…extremely offputting and infuriating. We try to get a response because we’ve been mislead by their affirmative attention that they want to hear from us and we are special.
Not only control, but the subcontext really enforces that you are not and will not ever be in his inner sanctum where he will respond back when you want him to. Or support you. Or truly love you back.
You got your money back this week. You really need to shift and go no contact and be done with him.
I always used that one on him. Or I’m sorry you’re angry. The only way I could get him to talk during NC was to apologize. I could say I’m sorry but I wouldn’t take the blame. He never caught on to it. As long as the words “I’m sorry” came out of my mouth he was fine
Yes I always had to apologize even if I did not do anything wrong