The Mid-Range Narcissist – Five Facts
I have come across these five questions on a number of occasions. They are often regarded as the five fundamental queries which are raised about our behaviour. They are usually answered in a forthright manner by certain commentators in order to drive the message home. However, these observations and answers are provided by people who are not of our kind. They are naturally entitled to comment but the true value arises from someone who is on the other side of the fence, the perpetrator of the actions, the doer. Furthermore, the usual observations are provided without regard to the fact that narcissists are both similar yet different because we operate in certain schools which are linked to our degree of functioning and malign outlook. Accordingly, the traditional answer provided to one of these questions may be correct for the greater of our kind, but not for the mid-range or for the lesser narcissist. This time the focus falls on those narcissists which are from the Mid-Range school. It is usually the case that those who Mid-Range are not so much defined by what they are, but rather by what they are not. Thus if a behaviour which accords with a lesser narcissist is absent and a behaviour which accords with a greater narcissist is absent but the individual still displays behaviour which accord with narcissism as a whole, this person falls within the Mid-Range. The Mid-Range is neither a creature of complete knee-jerk reactions but nor is he or she fully aware of what he or she is and the capabilities that he or she may possess. He or she will not exhibit the driven, malign nature of those narcissists from the greater school. Here are the five answers to the five central questions.
- Do We Know What We Are Doing?
Whereas the lesser narcissist operates through instinctive responses and in a knee-jerk manner the Mid-Ranger knows what he or she is doing even though the response is largely still one of instinct. Most of the Mid Ranger’s response is instinctive but they have a greater awareness of what is happening, the Lesser does not really notice.
The Mid-Ranger will notice that they feel a sense of unease and being unsettled. This is when their fuel levels have dropped to a low level. They do not know that the sensation of unease is linked to the reduced fuel levels. The Mid-Ranger does know that provoking reaction in the person who is his or her primary source and other people causes the unease to diminish and vanish. He or she is aware of the link between the need to receive attention and the reduction in the state of unease. He or she realises that certain reactions do not always work (i.e. unemotional ones) and that some reactions are superior to others (the sense of unease vanishes quicker and is replaced with a feeling of power) but they do not know why that is. They do not realise the index of fuel supply governs their own state of power/unease. They do know what if they are praised they feel better, if you are made to cry, they feel better and if you are losing your temper because of something that they have done, they feel better.
- Do We Know That We Are Hurting You?
Akin to the lesser, the Mid-Ranger is aware of the hurt that is being caused, the major difference however is that the Mid-Ranger recognises that you are being hurt (since he possesses Cognitive Empathy) but he or she will never OWN the responsibility for that hurt. Thus, he may say
“I know you are hurt when I call you names, but if you just stopped trying to control me, then I would not have to do it.”
He knows the name-calling upsets you, he also is aware that your emotional response has a positive impact for him (although does not know why) but he will never accept that this behaviour is wrong or his fault.
The Mid-Ranger may also give some consideration to how this might be achieved whereas the Lesser just does it. This tends to be apparent with mainly Upper Mid-Rangers, Lower and Middle Mid Rangers still operate through an instinctive response.
The Mid-Ranger does not behave this way because of any innate malevolence but rather because he or she is aware that the evidence of pain on your part gives them a “good” feeling and lessens the unease which may appear. The Mid-Ranger knows that if he or she acts in a certain way, it will cause you upset. With the higher functioning Mid Ranger, he or she will take some time to evaluate how best to respond in a situation so that the “good” feeling can be obtained. This is why some Upper Mid-Rangers are often mistaken for Greaters because they have a degree of calculation to their actions.
The Mid-Ranger will be aware of what it is that you are doing which has generated contempt, irritation or annoyance. He will be able to provide you with a reason behind this sensation and moreover if there is no actual reason he is readily able to invent one. Whereas the lesser can only usually respond in a vague and amorphous fashion, the Mid-Range will provide you with a reason for this annoyance at your behaviour and why he or she is hurting you. It is most likely a lie, but a reason will be provided nevertheless.
- Do We Do This Deliberately?
The Mid-Ranger is deliberate in his or her behaviours but they remain governed by instinct. They do not know it is fuel, they do not know its true purpose but they are sufficiently aware and of sufficient function to link the provision of certain reactions by you to the settling and empowering effect it has on them. The Mid-Ranger is aware that he or she can provoke good and bad emotions from you and that these reactions serve a purpose.
They are also able to apply a wider range of manipulations from their repertoire as a consequence of their increased function. The response is an instinctive response but in some instances will be thought out and whilst the plotting and scheming is far removed from the grand scale of the greater narcissists, there is no doubting that the Upper Mid-Ranger will plan. He or she will consider how people can best serve them. This is not done from a malicious point of view but is more about working out what will serve him or her the best. The Mid-Ranger will consider which friends serve him best, who will make the best target and how the various people that are his fuel lines knit together. He does not behave in the random and chaotic fashion of the Lesser nor with the pinpoint, malicious accuracy of the greater but with a sense of organisation and planning so that he or she gets what he or she wants.
- Can We Control This Behaviour?
The Mid-Ranger is possessed of the ability to control his or her behaviour even though the majority of it is instinctive. Accordingly, he will respond to certain behaviours with his own set response but can exert some control, for instance keeping a lid on the ignited fury for a short time, since he recognises the situation demands a certain approach.
Since he or she is not a creature of base instinct like the lesser but adopts a more considered approach there is some thought given to how he or she should respond. The Mid-Ranger is not aware of why they ought to behave in this way, they only know that there is a way of behaving which suits them best and they need to tailor their responses and behaviours to accord with this way and this includes control. The Mid-Ranger only has so much control however and in situations where fuel levels plummet and there is a real or perceived threat of a primary source cessation then the Mid-Ranger will lose control when placed under such duress. This may occasionally manifest in the use of physical violence. The Mid-Ranger knows there will be consequences but is unable to contain the urgent need to “do something” and therefore control is lost. The Mid-Ranger is particularly prone to using the silent treatment as this represents a halfway house between exerting and losing control. He or she may be panicked into a sudden reaction but they do not lose control to such an extent that a frenzied response, by way of violence both physical and verbal may appear. Instead they vanish. The Mid-Ranger is also more likely to engage in emotional, financial and sexual abuse through planning and the greater subtleties and insidious nature attached to these particular machinations.
- Can We Stop It?
Yes, the Mid-Ranger can to some extent. Much of his behaviour is instinct. He truly considers himself to be a good person, he believes he is empathic and caring, he regards other people as the problem. He cannot understand why people have to be so unfair, so troublesome and why they cause him pain and anguish, since he has such a different perspective to you.
He has an awareness and therefore is able to decide that the behaviour can stop. Indeed, where the Mid-Ranger perceives an advantage to be acquired he will do so and amend his behaviour accordingly. Whereas the lesser narcissist will instigate a respite period instinctively without knowing why he is doing, his need to devalue will just abate and the golden period returns, the Mid-Ranger knows the value of a respite period and will grant it because he feels settled and prone to wanting the contrast of the positive fuel again. Similarly, when those fuel levels drop the Mid-Ranger knows to commence the devaluation again. His awareness and control enable him of her to stop the devaluing behaviour as and when it is required. He does not exercise this with regard to any sense of malevolence, like the greater, but rather it is driven by need. The Mid-Ranger could stop his or her abusive behaviour but will not do so if they perceive a need for it to continue. The lesser is unable to stop it because it “just happens”. Of the three schools, the Mid-Ranger is less volatile, less malicious but in some respects can be regarded as entirely culpable for the behaviours which are engaged in and that are doled out to his or her victims. The difficulty is however, you can regard the Mid Ranger as culpable but he or she will never accept any liability for their behaviour because they are automatically configured to reject any notion that they are at fault. Their default setting is always to block this, reject it and counter it – usually through Pity Plays, sulking, silent treatments, blame-shifting and projection.
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I’m not thinking my spouse is as aware or potentially aware of his behavior as this reading suggests can occur at times. It feels more “instinctual.” Are their white collar educated upper lessers? Also, his insatiable (recent) appetite for white trash behavior seems akin to the “lesser” types.
No, but you might see some Lesser traits even when the narcissist belongs to another school, there are various shards and fragments of behaviours from various schools which come together to form an overall categorisation.
That makes sense. Thank you.
Hello I’ve been reading here a while but this is my first time asking a question, HG your writing is astounding.
My mid ranger (I am IPSS) told me during this last Hoover that he is a narcissist, that he must have the control, and that he knows this is what bothers me! I was speechless and don’t understand why he did this. I had made a hint previously that I was working it out, as I had started reading here.
Was this an attempt to re-bond me within the Hoover? A pity play? What is he doing?
Help from anyone is welcome. I’m scared as to what is coming.
Welcome on board Jess and thank you for your compliment.
He does not truly accept he is a narcissist, he is continuing to instinctively manipulate you by feigning real awareness and feigning empathy by stating he knows what bothers you. It is in part a pity play (feel sorry for me to be burdened with this accursed affliction, perhaps you might help me overcome it, yes?) and he is instinctively tapping into your own awareness by playing along. You hinted at narcissism and his narcissism has responded (in order to control and to manipulate) by ‘deciding’ to appear to admit what he is, so you feel empowered and more likely to remain to try to overcome it, driven by your empathic trait of wanting to heal and to fix. He was seeking fuel and also to assert control over you (I do not know if you are apart from one another through escape or he had shelved you).
HG thank you so very much for your answer – your opinion confirms my instinct regarding his motivations.
We have had a subsequent conversation where he told me he does NOT like it when I am upset because I become explosive and “won’t listen to reason” and that my harsh words are too stressful.
Is this his way of telling me that I wound him when we are in conflict? (I think I am a super empath and he always vanished from our conversations when I tried to tell him my opinion on the status of our relationship)?
As an aside, now that I know more I see that almost everything out of his mouth is a pity play….not so attractive.
HG,
when a Mid-Range hoovers after post escape, and I have already answered to the first message neutral, and if he continues with ” I love you, I miss you , I see you in everything, blah blah, but I guess it’s only me who feels this way”, if I respond with something like ” Yes, it’s only you, I’m not falling for this crap again, move on, page closed” would this provide fuel or will it wound him? I haven’t responded for days, but I feel this urge to hurt him the way he did, and show him I’m not being miserable and missing him.
Small amount of fuel as it would come across as irritation. Better not to reply at all that would wound.
Thank you! Your response is appreciated. Thank you for your work as well, as shocking and devastating it was to come across your blog, eventually I realized this has helped me beyond anything else. Even my therapist was giving me bad advises. I needed your painful and cold truth. Keep up the good work, HG and I hope one day you will find your peace and real happiness.
Regards,
Ema
HG, Do Mid rangers ever have moments of clarity where they know something is wrong with them but they dont know what it is? For example: Mine would tell me “I dont really have a lot of friends”, or “I get depressed sometimes and I dont really know why”, or “I cant think of anything worse than being alone and not getting attention”. (In hindsight he was basically telling me he was a narcissist)
I was never sure if these were pity plays (or him playing the victim perhaps?) to appeal to the nurturing side of me or if these were actual moments of clarity that got through the cracks. (middle Mid-Range cerebral..with some somatic traits)
Usually it is part of the manipulation and is a form of blameshifting.
Thank you HG. That is what I thought. I will stay NC forever. Your answers are always so succinct and helpful and your blog has really helped me see through this bullsht . As an aside, you have a very lovely voice. Have you ever considered voiceover work? I think you’d be excellent.
I find the image of this post so apt for my MR. He really is that little lost wall-e.
Of all the narcs I know, he is the one who has the least malice. He does not hurt people; he simply annoys and frustrates in such an apparently “innocent” and childish way that I have never taken him seriously. He is not even a clearly defined victim narc because he is responsible, has a decent job, good hygiene, sense of humor and his pity plays are discrete. Very different from all the other narcs I know. I have really had trouble identifying him as someone with NPD, which says a lot about how distorted the idea I have of how a grown-up relationship should be is.
He is a piece of cake for me in many ways, but one that should not be acceptable, even if it feels easy.
I did not remember that my Intellectual MRN told me that he was like wall-E and I was “his” Eva. The description you make is almost exactly as I see him, I never to saw him like a “bad person”. I think that from his psychic reality, he was the “best person” he could be.
Min, they are very good at finding cute, charming things to say when they want you to love them, aren’t they?
But now that I think about it, Wall-E doesn’t deserve to be compared with my future ex. He is a much better robot than my future ex will ever be. Lol.
But the little robot in the image above. .. That is my current primary narc.
HG, if the narc is calling after he agreed that would no longer contact and when he is supposed to be in a golden period with his new supply, claiming the reason is that he is overwhelm due to his legal matters which makes no sense because as he should know I’m asleep at 2:30am and not available to talk to anyone lol. Is his golden period over so soon it has only been 5 months and I need more time to heal…I hope he is not trying to Hoover my response to him was very short and over email…trying to minimize fuel as you suggested. I admit I felt compelled to reach out when I saw blocked calls on my caller I’d. When does this get better how long to disinfect .
It depends on whether the other person is an IPPS or IPSS as this results in a different dynamic and therefore generates alternative answers and explanations. You would be best served organising an email consultation so you can provide me with more information so I can give you an accurate response.
I plan a consult soon. Just started reading Exorcism. I actually ended up talking to him. Starting no contact again.
Dust down and start again.
HG,
Can narcissists get more narcissistic as time goes on?
My family thinks that my ex SIL is acting way worse than she ever did when she was married to my brother. She is a mid-ranger, and I think she truly thinks she is a wonderful Christian mother and pillar of society. She used to fight against some of the bad things her mother wanted her to do…. after the divorce she became painted white in her mother’s eyes… always does what her mother wants now. She is now remarried to another Narc and between her Narc mother and Narc new husband, she seems empowered. She lies, smears, gas-lights, etc. at an amazing rate!
Is she more of a narcissist? She was in her mid-20s when she married my brother…she is now in her early 40s. Or is she just lower on fuel maybe?
Just curious….
1. The narcissism is always there but it may be revealed more often and more extensively and one of the reasons, as you suggest, may well be that she is low on fuel and therefore is more manipulative in order to gain fuel.
Thanks for your reply!
Yes, we would see certain behaviors more around sudden changes in her life such as having a baby, her father’s death, the divorce, etc.
I think we were misinterpreting it as her narcissism getting worse… instead the events highlight the narcissism…
HG, why are there so many mid-range narcissists as opposed to the other schools?
The majority of female narcissists are mid range.
Why is that HG?
Why is what?
Why are there less female greaters?
There are fewer greaters as a whole and therefore there are fewer female and male greaters compared to lesser and mid-range. More fall within the range of Mid-Range as a consequence of environmental influence through their creation.
Gosh! I’m definitely interested to know more. Few greaters on the whole, yes I understand that but I beleive you’re still saying there is a gender difference as well HG?
Agh now I hate you! Lol! But definitely feel more comfortable when you’re playing games
Hello HG,
what does narcissist think when his discarded ex partner keep him blocked, even when he unblocked her? Do they think they failed or are angry they can’t control this person any longer? Are they disappointed?
And why they unblock one ex while keeping blocked other ex’s? Is it because one ex can be white again and others are still painted black?
Wounded.
Yes and it is triangulation.
I recently blocked mine across the board. I was not the IPPS though just an IPPS candidate being love bombed and discarded for the other IPPS candidate (she got the job I didnt thankfully). If Ive wounded him by blocking, will he retaliate I wonder ? He is Middle to upper mid range cerebral. hes currently in a golden period with the new IPPS.as theyve moved in together a month after meeting.
As an aside: I do believe he may have retaliated before by spamming my number 400 times with prank calls he added to a robocall list (he has access to this working in his field) and trying to send me fake fb friend requests after I defriended him. But I cannot prove this and dont want to project. But it seems all too coincidental. this was also before I completely blocked him.
Dear HG. It has been awhile since I commented. I have naturally been fighting my own demons or should I say the Narcs ( of varying degrees ) around me.
I wanted to share something with you/all others.
While what Narcs do frustrate us co-dependents/empaths. I wanted to say thank you for using yourself to provide us with ammunition and to use your words in a positive and for the good for us. You could be doing what the “easier” path is and obtaining your fuel from the “normal” methods.
Secondly I feel attachment to all the Narcs I have encountered. Instead of being angry I feel sadness of the life that they live. A life devoid of intimacy and true connection. A life where they can stop running and be content. As a result their thoughts still circulate in me. I wonder if others who have experienced also feel the same as me?
It’s very easy to hate Narcs. Yet the truth is that they come about because of their parental failure when they were young. I am not saying what they do is right too. Its extremely criplling. 41 years I have been battling with it that started of with a Narc mum and a co-dependent Autistic dad. I went on to become the same as my dad and the fight has continued with both of them and others in my life.
As HG has mentioned to me at least is GOSO. But the thoughts still plague me….
Take care all. These are just my opinions, no disrespect to anyone. We are all amazing in our own ways. Whatever label we each have, we are ALL amazing. X
I also feel that way – pity for the narcs – but not attachment. I forgave the abuse, because it doesn’t serve me to carry resentment and it doesn’t do anything help ME (or hurt him, for that matter). And I’ve always known that hate is a colossal waste of time, even though I can’t help it sometimes when things happen. I forgive myself for the further hurt I do myself and move on.
I don’t blame narcs for what they are. I blame myself – not for not being able to “fix” them, not anymore – but for not recognizing them for what they were in the first instance. For being taken in, duped, allowing the abuse in the first place. I’m learning to forgive myself.
You didn’t ask to be born to your narc mum and co-dependent dad – and didn’t have a choice then. You do now. Choose amazing, choose you.
Hello, I was married for 17 years with an intellectual N and even if I wanted to hate him, I can not, I feel a great sadness for him, he was a battered and overworked child, I can not stop thinking about that, maybe if he had been a beloved child, would be happy now. Then I found a somatic Narc (he was also very ill-treated in his childhood), I was “his” IPSS (shelf / candidate) for 16 months, and although in the end I felt very used by him and at times I feel outraged, When I “think” I also feel a lot of sadness, they were child victims of an adult, that’s horrible! By the way, the somatic N was the one that made me realize that my ex was Narc too, and that I am the daughter of another Narc. In the end everything remains in family! (The Narc are everywhere, now I smell them)
Min, The MRN I write about here (cerebral and I was SIPSS for 2 years) along with HGs posts also made me realize that my exH was a Lesser and that my mother is also a narc. They are of different kinds and degrees but when grandma starts treating even her grandchildren narcishly, I find it hard to feel sorry for her, and when Lesser lashes out physically, I find it hard to feel sorry for him. I do have a bit of empathy left for MRN…
SMH Yes, I do not want to make comparisons, everyone lives different relationship with the Narc, it also depends on the school and the type of Narc, in no case is it easy, we are all victims of their abuses. I now remember my days of loneliness, depression and confusion. The last 4 years of the relationship I asked God every day for the strength to leave it, sometimes the guilt would not allow it. My intellectual Narc, did not triangulate with women, did it with his family, books, games, friends, etc. and although this reading has made me remember the level of anxiety in which I maintained, the level of displeasure, I still feel pity, I could leave, he will be with whole life with himself, I am sure that if he had had another childhood, today he would be a better person. Somatic narc is a more destructive person, although it could not affect my self-esteem (he tried it), if I think that he takes anyone ahead to get what he wants. The issue is that the abuse of these Narcs is not personal, it is their own hell that they transfer it to others, I know that there are very wounded people, and that’s fine, to feel what they feel, are the stages of mourning. The case of children abused by the Narc is horrible, they are the worst victims, we must protect them in any way. My country is governed by psychopaths and malignant narcissists, I would like them to pay for the misery they have generated, people are dying of hunger, but “hatred”, I can not feel it, besides, I feel that if I hate them, they “win”, again apologies for my writing, I am writing in a language that is not mine, I hope I have expressed my ideas well, it is just my testimony of my personal experience that I wanted to share with you
Min, thank you for sharing. My country is being ‘governed’ by a psychopath too and he also treats his children horribly. You don’t let them win by hating them. You let them win by staying with them – by not calling them out on their behavior. I don’t hate mine – I don’t really hate anyone – but I don’t want to be around him anymore either. It’s a process. Your written English is very good!
Oh thanks SMH, I appreciate your comment !!
Yes, I feel pity too – but not for the f*-up Lesser that I had a business conflict with (to hell with him). Only for the MR who made me love him.
“He truly considers himself to be a good person, he believes he is empathic and caring, he regards other people as the problem. He cannot understand why people have to be so unfair, so troublesome and why they cause him pain and anguish…”
Perpetual victim. “Everyone always turns against me. I never did anything but help them. Why does s/he think I’m trying to kill them? How come I’m the bad guy?” Of course, it wouldn’t have anything to do with his actions. Self-aggrandizing and exaggeration of the paltry, few-and-far-between accomplishments is standard, and is constantly used as “evidence” of their goodness. Same few “hero” stories, trotted out for every instance of criticism, actual or implied.
Speaking of criticism, if you have the actual NERVE to criticize the mid-range, he will rant, rave and bitch endlessly about how you’re always finding fault with him, why can’t you be happy with what you’ve got? Then goes on to victimize himself by saying things like “If I suck so much why don’t you just get rid of me?” and create drama around giving you unattractive choices: “well, if my job is such a problem for you, then I’ll just quit” – this instead of posting his work hours as you’ve asked him to do. This is followed by an Incredible Sulk and endlessly unpredictible present silent treatments. He stays for the silent treatments because he likes seeing how much it upsets you. You can catch him with the smirk when he doesn’t think you’re looking.
He pretends to be caring, but only cares about the negative results of his actions when the negativity comes back to bite HIM on the ass. He creates the appearance of caring when that appearance serves him. There is some calculation in that – he knows when the appearance of being a good father, for example, will be helpful to him down the line, so he does calculate, strategize and plan to that extent. The same way that appearing to be caring for you in front of others serves him when the discard/escape happens. Even though others may KNOW that you’re a wonderful human being, he can at least save face enough to say “You know I was good to her, she just…(insert complaint here)”, followed by unspooling about how HE was victimized.
He is aware of his lies when he tells them and takes delight in telling them because if his audience doesn’t call him on it out of pure politeness, that means he’s superior to them – look how powerful he is! He can lie and get away with it! The fools!! The longer you know a mid-range, the more predictable they become…. they are lying if their lips are moving, even if the truth is a better story. Of course, you’ll have to wade through miles of word salad before you even get the lie, never mind finding the truth.
I actually told my narc once that he has no empathy, and the fucker actually AGREED with me! In total contradiction to what he was supposed to be – Mr. Spiritual Empath, sir.
Kellygurl
Great description of a midranger.
Thanks. Now that I’ve crossed that off my bucket list and have understood the lesson, maybe I can avoid it in the future. One can only hope LOL
Hard to believe anyone could stand that much less miss it lol.
They are horrible liars. Now that I am reading I can say that mine vascilates between a mid range and an upper mid range. However, I have seen him go into rage as a lesser would.
HG what of the mid-ranger who is aware of his diagnosis by way of therapy? Does this change how he proceeds/plans etc? Would that knowledge induce a sense of unease given that he thinks he is an empathic person?
He would reject the diagnosis.
Would the mid ranger use the fact that someone “tried” to diagnose him as a narcissist for purposes of a pity play/manipulation? I know the answer to this, not sure why I’m asking you HG…haha. You can roll your eyes at me now if you like.
Yes.
My X at the beginning of the year and during a post row talk – beat his chest (figuratively speaking) and told me “I know there is something wrong with me…..I am a narcissist” (he had done an online quiz to try and placate me??)
Two days later – after I had forgiven him through pity. He turned around over nothing and said ” You talk shit. I will do what I want”!
So he seemed to admit what he was??? Just to placate me HG? Or did he really know and admit what he was?
In my case I’ve always returned to him.
I’m pretty sure that he feels excited when I send message and he ignores them until I start to say the truth that he doesn’t want to hear.
In the last devaluation I’m sure that he has at least two women besides his wife.
After I told him through thousand of messages and email. He told me that I’m blocked in WhatsApp, and couldn’t send him iMessages any longer. He disabled this way to communication but two week later he activated again
Is he looking a new contact by me ?
I’m sure that in this moment his fuel is complete by the new person …
Why he does that ? Maybe it’s only that with my behavior I force him to do something that he doesn’t wanted to do because iMessage is a way to communication with his “girls”. He thinks She’lI try, she’ll can and un a few days I’ll actívate iMessage again she’ll not realized…can he really think that I’m so stupid like him ???
Hi Miranda
I know you are looking for advice from HG but I felt compelled to reply hope you don’t mind.I was in a very similar situation.
I think he blocked you due to ou messaging him so much , please don’t do that , it achieves nothing but swelling their ego .I know it’s tough but it is your emotions driving this and it’s those very emotions that are not your best friend now.Try if you can to look at this from a cold calculated perspective ,not easy when your in it I know.
This man has a wife , no matter what he told you about her it’s ALL LIES. Does he love her ,no he only loves himself but she suits his image of great family man.Does he love you NOT AT ALL he was / is USING you.
You know this deep down but denial will kick in to protect you from the pain.This denial will lead you to message him ,make excuses etc etc and the only road you will go down is that of pain ,humiliation and rejection.I promise you that .Forget the other other women they shouldn’t concern you , it’s what he does .Knowing he doesn’t care will empower you if you truly truly accept that.You must accept that ,there is nothing wrong with you ,you are loveable but this man is not worthy of you.
Read here and listen to the audio , it will help a lot .Focus on thinking logically and please dont message him.
I am not perfect and can cause unintentional hurt. It made me realize that maybe a person isn’t a MRN but just reacting to the unintentional hurt I am causing. I am working on me to fix those areas. Yes I broke no contact to list the things I am sorry for, that came to me in self analysis, but am blocked. Can I count that as still being no contact? LOL
How do you know if a person is MRN versus someone who has been hurt in the past and you are unintentionally causing them to act in a way that hurts you and thus the vicious circle is made?
You broke no contact by spending time thinking about the narcissist beyond a brief moment.
You consult with men and I will tell you.
Thank you!!
I struggle with the not thinking part especially when I realize that I feel my actions/words may have caused hurt.
Can I have you on speed dial? 😉 In all seriousness, I haven’t ruled that idea out for the future.
For an appropriate fee.
I can imagine this:
Out with someone who has acted in a way that has me confused. On this outing, he has said or done something that appears to have crossed boundaries again or is saying/doing something that hurts. My mind goes into natural gear and thinks: “did that really happen? Are you imagining? You are sensitive when you are tired and you are tired right now – don’t let your tiredness cause you to react. What did you say or do before that that caused him to react? That’s not like him so what is going on in his life that could have led to that? Are you overreacting? Was that a real boundary or did you have it there to be a @#$% or keep people at a distance to not get hurt? Don’t say anything as you may hurt him or teach him that he can’t be open and himself with you. He is being honest with his thoughts and you want his honesty regardless. Etc”
I let it go without saying anything. Next incident, I say out loud “hold on” and pull out my phone and call you. I talk to you for a bit, hang up, and say “we need to talk….”
I like that! Let the negotiation begin. 😁
HG i saw recently some comments in questioning me about the horse therapy and i want to comment on then but I dont have my passwords anymore and i can only comment via WP app and there I cant find the blog. Can you please like ine of the comments so that i receive the notifciation and can comment. Thanks
“They are usually answered in a forthright manner by certain commentators in order to drive the message home. However, these observations and answers are provided by people who are not of our kind.”
Yes, HG, this is very true. However, the inaccuracies are often driven via the very nature of the Middles’ themselves. Out of all three schools, it is this one that gives me the most headaches.
They are pretty much unpredictable. Not totally. But enough times.
Because, as you have said to me; they are living in the moment. They ‘grab’ fuel, where they can.
I made a game of this when I was observing the Upper Middle. He would say ‘x’, I would then make it part of the game to see if he would do ‘y”. I usually got it spot on but not always.
Invariably, I would always assume the worst possible outcome but that wasn’t always so in my experience.
With the Greaters. No I would not be able to read their minds but I would know when an attack or Hoover was going to present itself. And it did. Always.
Middles are strange creatures. Spanning the awareness bridge this really should be no surprise. Their PA natures are an utter un-joy to behold. They switch and flick-flack very readily to whatever position suits the at that point in time in order to gain fuel.
I think this is where we, as Es who have become ‘weaponised’ , can now take the higher ground. No we cannot predict but we CAN chose to take the more ‘intellectual’ path and thus outmanourve them.
Great writing as always HG.
My ex Mid Range tried to hoover me 2 months post my escape with some pity plays like how he can’t move on, he is devastated, he’s been dreaming of me all the time and how I killed him and destroyed him. I killed him ? Hah… he lied to me, cheated on me, did horrible things to my psyche (I go to therapy for PTSD) and is still playing the victim. Is it normal that he is only using the pity plays and do they ever stop? He is a very intelligent man otherwise and although I know now he is a textbook narc, I find it difficult to comprehend this constant pathetic behavior. Doesn’t he have some dignity? By saying such things, doesn’t he give ME power ?
Yup. I knew he could stop the behavior because he once did for a whole month when my anxiety levels were off the charts and he did not want me to escape again. By the end of the month I started to detach because the truth was he really did not have much to offer. But then he reverted and of course the cycle started again. All makes sense to me now.
Mid rangers are not that interesting because they really are just regular people who think they are exceptional. Their unshakeable sense of themselves makes us think well, they must be exceptional…
You don’t really love me you just keep me hanging on why cant you be a man about and set me free no you don’t care a thing about me your just USING me ABUSING ME. Get out get out of my life and let me sleep at night.
Kim Wilde Love this 80s pop sync song
listening TO THIS AS I HAVE DELETED him EVERYWHERE without a word from me just like HG recommends in NO CONTACT.
Cant believe I found the strength to this no turning back now.
Thank you HG
BRAVO! Standing ovation in fact!
Good for you, KiKi!
Hg do you think the root of narcissism is avoidance attachment.
Im doing a lot of reading around psychology lately and I am finding it fascinating.Im a scientist but part of me is drawn down this route now.
None of us is perfect even you Mr Tudor as perfection doesnt exist only perception of perfection.
The entire concept of gaining self esteem and identity from achievement and validation must be deeply ingrained in you.You base your core identity on external factors such as admiration , material goods , degrees etc
These externals cannot be controlled and therefore cannot give you a solid identity ,hence you are never fulfilled. If something goes wrong it is taken as a deep criticism of you because it attacks what you have percieved as your core identity.Even if this criticism is imaginary.
I imagine your early background was one of very low differentation , meaning room to be different than your family , care takers etc was slight.There was an expectation of a certain standard where the you and me get confused .
HG a profound shift is occurring within me ,I can’t believe it.
I am removing my emotion thinking to the situation and tracking the mars contact and lack of , a predictable pattern has emerged.
I am no longer getting upset ,feeling forgotten , I am thinking bingo here we go again just what HG described. I am removing myself from it emotionally and kind of looking in on it from the outside like a stranger.
This is the very first time in two years I don’t feel crippled with what is wrong with me ,why ,why etc.
Not o ly that but being here has pushed me to look at my own low self esteem ,the way I allow others actions to hurt me and impact on me.
It’s part of an anxious attachment style which is I imagine a narcs playground.
I am ready , ready for complete No contact and absolute deletion .
I am closing emails , that is the only way.
He deleted me I owe him nothing.
I have it figured thanks to you Mr Tudor .
I need to stay here though to keep my strength up and get a GOSO consult when I can to give me further strength.
Thank you so much.
The ex seems to fit this description. The elegant, sensitive artist, quietly assembling his firing squad .
Too late.
I ducked and I don’t really think he should have stood them in a circle.
Old ladies can be very mean to each other you know .
Probably an enjoyable part of the plan ?
Who cares. I’m done.
Popcorn time.
Also thank you for addressing my comments. I don’t mean this as an after thought. I tend to get caught up in my thoughts.
The first time I read this I was in the emotional sea. It is fascinating to read it again after reading your book when I am on dry land.
In my consultation you pegged him as either a UMR or possibly a Greater. I do not sense malice so UMR Elite seems applicable.
Something that fascinates me, however. Why use so much energy to seduce me just to be a dirty little secret? I wasn’t an open door. I am a very guarded, private individual not prone to falling for intense flattery or ostentatious gifts. I am a strong, vivacious and challenging person. Part of my issue originally in nailing down what he is, is that not one single tatic used on me was normal. I was not love bombed in the traditional sense. He went so far as to befriend my husband, interact with my children and even my dog.
Why go to such lengths?
Fuel.
It’s funny, for my Mid-Ranger the triangulation, the silent treatment and other tools are not considered as something harmful to the relationship, he think that a claim of the victim on any of these actions is only because the victim want to exercise control over him . He think maybe his bad temper sometimes do not help him (I never saw his anger, which is why I think he had control over it in fact). One day he complained about a friend, he said “this guy is weird, sometimes he does not answer, he leaves you message in “seen”, I smiled, and said him “thats what you do” he did not answer… One day I said him “the problem is that you do not give me peace” he scratched his head and told me why everyone says the same thing to me? … he really seemed sincere about this. He think he is a good person and everyone around him is ungrateful and they are not able to value everything he does for them, he think he is a victim.
Thanks again for creating this space and for the information, it is really enriching, Sorry for my english, I am practicing it
“he scratched his head and told me why everyone says the same thing to me?”
Same thing happened with my narc. He abused me in every way he claimed that others had abused him. And everyone told him that he never explained anything, never opened up. He always claimed that “there are no words”. In the middle of a word salad that never made any sense.
Kelleygurl, “He always claimed that “there are no words”. In the middle of a word salad that never made any sense.”
That cracked me up!!
Mine once said: “whatever I say seems to make it worse” in middle of word salad.
And MIn, I once told mine that he seemed like two different people (before I saw the third and fourth versions of him). He said, a bit perturbed, “people do say that about me.” He also once said, “I really AM a sweet guy.”
if they did not cause pain, they would be really fun