Closure Denied
We do not do the clean break. We never allow closure. There is no neat conclusion when you have been entangled with our kind. You are not allowed the precise and final cut of the surgeon’s scalpel but instead you must be content with the rusty saw that has sought to effect an amputation but instead has merely created a grisly abomination whereby there remains tendrils attached and ragged and torn flesh. No matter how hot the water which flows in your shower and the vigour with which you scrub your reddened flesh, no matter how much detergent you apply and no matter whether you use scrubbing brush or wire wool you cannot remove that residue. We linger. We remain. We percolate and infiltrate.
This, like much of what we do, is a calculated act to maintain a connection between you and us. We can never let go so we see no reason why you should be allowed to either. The residue which we create and which you cannot remove, takes many forms. It may be the fact that we chose you when we worked together so that each day you have no choice but to see us across the floor space in the same office, in the cafeteria or striding across the car park. Once upon a time, like every good fairy tale, you smiled and you felt your heart skip a beat as you saw us exit the lift and smile at you. That wonderful smile which was just for you. Now when we exit the lift and our cold, dead eyes alight on you, the smile is no more than a sickly leer which slowly opens up across our face as we know the residue of our impact on your remains deep inside you. You are faced with this each day. It is either that or leave and go somewhere else and even though you know that the latter is probably the most appropriate cause of action, something prevents you from doing so. Is it because you still want to see us? Of course it is. You may very well hate us but you cannot still help yourself as you want to see what we are doing and allow yourself the indulgence of looking at us and remembering.
In a different way the residue may be the fact that we owe you money and you are left to contact us, despite not wishing to do so, because you want, no, because you need that money. After all, we leeched from you so successfully that we have left you in penury and you need this money to be reimbursed. Part of you would rather write it off and in doing so hope that you can scour us from your memory, but circumstance dictates the necessity of collection. We know this and we shall provide excuse and exhibit delay and prevarication in order to keep you hanging on and in order to keep the connection between us alive still. The money will be paid by the end of the week promise. Sorry but we had to have a new boiler fitted so it will be next month now. The bonus was not as large as had been promised so it will a further three months as I shall have to pay you by instalments. What money? I do not know owe you anything. We keep you dangling and pull at the connection that remains between you and I. If it is not money, then it will be possessions. We will purposefully leave our belongings in your house and you will repeatedly ask us to collect them. We issue similar excuses to the repayment of the borrowed money. I am a bit busy at the moment maybe next week. I need to collect it in a car and mine is in the garage at the moment. If the possessions are not ours at your property then we will have ensured that in addition or as an alternative we will have kept items belonging to you with us, causing you to have to keep some form of contact with us in order to recover them. We ensure we select those items which are expensive and of sentimental value so you will not be able to replace them but instead you must keep asking us for the items. We will string out the return of these items by failing to be in when you call to collect them, turning up to deliver them when you are not in, forgetting to do so and so forth. It all maintains the link between us and increases your upset, annoyance and frustration. We want to keep our residue in your life so that when we choose to make our move we can suck you back in without difficulty.
We will remain in the same circle of friends as you. With our notoriously thick skin we will still turn up to meals and drinks knowing that you will be there. You will feel uncomfortable and resent our intrusion. Third parties will try to keep the peace and of course we will maintain our façade in order to show that we are a good person and we are just trying to be civil following the ending of the relationship. You may react to this and it enables us to point out that you are unhinged, unpleasant and always have to bear a grudge. Is it any wonder that we left?
Whilst we create the ever presence so that you see us everywhere you go, in sounds, in sights and tastes, we also like to leave our mark on you, smearing you with the residue of the relationship so that you feel tainted for the rest of your life, marked with the repeated reminder that you have been embroiled in a relationship with us and moreover to let you know in the clearest terms that you will never be free of us. We can never be washed away.
46 thoughts on “Closure Denied”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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K,
When yu say I am not free, what does that mean? Sorry for the delay been crazy busy
Fightergirl
The narcissistic relationship is forever and only ends when one of you dies. You are an appliance and you are there to provide the Prime Aims, chief amongst them: fuel, and that is why they hoover and why you must GOSO and go NC.
When you have a chance, please, read these articles:
https://narcsite.com/2018/08/16/own-7/https://narcsite.com/2018/06/04/the-golden-rules-of-freedom-no-2-2/
K
I am not in! From what this site says I was an IPSS, he is the one who left 5 months ago without a word , he blocked me and we have had zero contact since . I realize now after all this time has passed that I will never get an apology or goodGbye . We live 10 minutes apart but neither of us has attempted to contact the other . ( I haven’t because he has a IPPS and I would never hurt her or her kids) I did message at first but they were all ignored and then I was blocked . So i am out and we are no contact .
Fightergirl
You are correct; you will not get an apology because that is ceding superiority to you by admitting that he was wrong which will end your upset, anger and hurt, thus, fuel ends. And he won’t say goodbye (provide closure) because that shuts off his fuel supply, as well, and it leaves the door open so he can ensnare you again.
Irrespective of your position (IPSS) on his fuel matrix, you are always at risk for a hoover. Block and delete him from your life, phone, social media and FB and be vigilant because you never know when he might come a-hoovering.
My daughter’s narcissist hoovered 5 months after her restraining order against him expired, a total of 17 months later.
k , just checking in to say that you are indeed correct . My Narc contacted me after 6 months to say he missed me and when I asked why he didn’t even say goodbye he said “ because it wasn’t goodbye ! “ I recently found out that the reason he dropped me was because he was seeing someone else at his church , well actually more than one and I suspect they found out about each other as one of them ousted him to the pastor and the wife and they left the church ! I was told he was stalking and victimizing women in the church but no idea what that means . I’m so glad I found that out so I can see what a truly sick man he is . Now I can actually close the door forever . I was confused if he was indeed a narc or just a man with issues cheating on his spouse but it’s crystal clear now ! I feel like a weight is lifted and I can breath again
Hello Fightergirl
Good to hear from you again! Oh yeah, you got hoovered and he even admitted that it wasn’t “a goodbye” because from his perspective the narcissistic relationship is forever and he owns you.
Narcissists are usually quite promiscuous and they will stalk their targets like a predator. It looks like he got busted and outed at the church and he needed some fuel and turned to you to get some.
You can breath again and focus on establishing No Contact. I think he will hoover you again so be wary. When you have a chance read the link below so you can get a better understanding of what you are dealing with.
2. The New Source Is in Place
https://narcsite.com/2017/12/27/5-reasons-we-disengage/
K
What I find so weird about the situation is that when he was ousted to the pastor by the woman ( i think she had an affair with him and expected more but when it never came to fruition she went to the pastor saying she was being stalked by him). The Narc and his wife left the church but supposedly the wife called the “victim” to apologize for her husbands actions. Don’t you think that all seems odd?
Fightergirl
This could be a possible scenario:
The woman wanted more than the narcissist was willing to give and, when she didn’t get what she wanted she felt criticized (narc rage ensued & she painted him black), she asserted control and superiority by outing him (devalue/punishing) to the pastor and claimed the narcissist was stalking her (smearing).
The husband and wife left the church (withdrawal: heal the wound and assert control)
Supposedly, the wife called the “victim” to apologize for her husband’s untoward behaviour (most likely lies being told for facade maintenance) so she (the “victim”) looks innocent of all wrongdoing (whiter than white) and gets pity (fuel) from those who feel sorry for her.
I think this may be a case of narc on narc behavior. Does this seem plausible to you? Do you know the woman?
K,
Yes that could be. She’s with another guy now and was shorty after my Narc and his wife left the church . I think that the victim def wanted more and he wouldn’t give it to her and was probably doing the lovebomb to get sex and then ignore which is his pattern . So she was looking for another guy and she found one . My ex Narc felt rejected so he kept attempting to get her back and she then played the victim card to the pastor . I just can’t figure out why the wife would contact her to say she was sorry tho . I did hear that my ex and the wife split for a month or so but have reconciled yet again .
Fightergirl
Do you know for sure that the wife really called/contacted her? Or is that what you heard or were you told this? The “victim” could be lying to make herself look like she was victimized.
I am not surprised that they split and are now back together. That is his primary source and he may not have, or want, a replacement.
K
This is what the “victim” said happened, that she was contacted by the wife. I know the Narc and I am sure he wouldnt randomly stalk her.i believe that she had an affair with him, realized he wasnt leaving the wife and the decided to play the victim to the pastor so he would be forced from the church.In 5 years he never stalked me or was violent or anything like that. He is very much into you then goes silent for periods of time, then sends a text to hoover. my gut says she is protecting her reputation within the church, she even said he was victimizing other women too.I couldnt let on that i knew him or we had been involved. the wife will never leave she is totally dependant on him financially and emotionally . I think thats one reason he feels free to have women on the side.
Fightergirl
Just what I thought, the “Victim” told you that the wife contacted her and apologized.
It looks like she didn’t get what she wanted from the narcissist so she played the innocent “Victim” and blame shifted the affair/stalking so he and his wife would banished from the church (punishment).
She may be a narcissist herself and she needs to protect her reputation (facade); she is whiter than white and her claim that he was victimizing other women is further smearing and being used to bolster her “victim” claim.
Whatever you do, trust no one and say nothing to anyone! Just watch and learn.
The wife may not realize what she is dealing with and if she depends on him financially then she may not see a way out.
When you have a chance read this article to understand how the narcissist uses binding.
https://narcsite.com/?s=binding
Most narcissists are very promiscuous. They are fuel addicts and
sex = fuel.
K
Totally agree! One thing that I’m confused the most about is why would the ex narc chose someone from church for supply? He and his family went there together so the odds of the infidelity coming out was very high. its not a large place and we all know the Narc doesn’t keep a secondary supply long and leaves women ripe for outing them. I would think he would have chosen a woman that wouldnt know mutual people or his spouse.
Fightergirl,
This might be a plausible explanation: Mine picked me (IPSS) , though it was risky because there were only a few degrees of separation with IPPS. I think MRN liked the thrill of it – the possibility of triangulating, especially me with her because eventually I knew about her but she did not know about me.
I also think he wanted me to fight for him and cause problems in order to get a lot of fuel from both of us. He’d done it to IPPS before – twice that I know of. Once long before I met him (she apparently kicked him out but I am not sure) and once when they were reconciling – when there was another CIPSS or CIPPS during a devaluation of me (I was away).
He tried to triangulate both of them with me but I escaped (third time – five tries before I was successful). He did triangulate CIPSS with IPPS. When he told me about it he said: ‘there was a lot of drama and tears.’ I will never forget that line!!
He wanted fuel (drama and tears) and that is probably what yours wants too.
Fightergirl
Narcissists are creatures of economy and they do not know what they are nor do they recognize their kind. Plus, his magical thinking blinds him to the reality that he may get caught cheating. In this case, it looks like he may have ensnared another narcissist and it became a battle for control.
If you get the chance read this article.
https://narcsite.com/2018/08/22/when-narcissists-collide-part-two-7/
IPSS here, I wounded the narc (ouring a time where his new ipss is obviously fueling him well) and he has been giving me the silent treatment for weeks but opens all my msgs, views my videos and posts yet continues to ignore. Is this a disengagement as I haven’t been blocked?
He simply said ‘we are over’ and ignored all attempts to contact him. I’m still wanting him back. Turned my negative fuel to positive, even stepped away for a week. He still hasn’t wanted to engage with me.
HG, what is the best course of action to get him to engage with me again? I am well aware of the risks of rengaging but I need my fix. I told him if we are done to just block me etc. no reply and I don’t wish to remove his tendrils yet.
1. Your emotional thinking is conning you into thinking this is a sensible course of action. it is not.
2. There is no guarantee you can get the narcissist to engage with you so do not waste your time.
3. See ‘How To Make the Narcissist Return’.
Many thanks HG, I am aware of how the emotional thinking is clouding my better judgment but I think I myself have a sadistic streak that enjoys the games.
I just do not understand why if he discarded me, he views all of my msgs and won’t just block and delete me, for fuel I guess. So essentially this is just an extended silent treatment?
I have watched that video, wonderful content. I have done all listed so I guess it is just a matter of time before the blocking or the hoover (malign or benign) begins.
Jane, it’s good you are reading because I didn’t know and kept talking and talking and had initially said “block me then if you are done”. It turned into one of the greatest disasters of my life because someone suddenly died so I promptly lost control of how expressive I was after three years of being perfectly fine. Much regret. I really cannot explain how much regret. I don’t think I will ever again completely lack the ability to provide my own closure.
Is this why they just disappear without explanation or goodbye after 5 years of being in an intimate relationship? 5 months and not one word from him!
fightergirl
You will not get closure from the narcissist because that means the provision of fuel will end-and does so for good-and the narcissist does not want that. The door is deliberately left open for future hoovers (for both positive and negative fuel) or to potentially draw you back into the formal relationship.
You may find this link below helpful.
1. The Vanishing Act
https://narcsite.com/2016/10/29/the-house-of-discards-2/
Oh, that is why mine told me he would call me, K, when he has never called me in his life. Even after I made him delete all the emails, he was still trying to leave a door open. I was puzzled. But in any case that was before I told IPPS, so who knows if he still thinks that way.
SMH
Nothing like a comfort crumb for a shelf IPSS. He invested his time and energy in you, so it is in his best interest to keep the door open so he can continue to draw fuel from you. You are his asset forever and he has not changed his perspective even though you told the IPPS. He will “come a-hoovering” when he is hankering for some fuel. Be vigilant.
Being here is like a logic infusion, K. Every time I get to the point where I think I’ve uncovered every last thing, something like this pops up and I go Oh, that’s what that was all about.
As another example, when I told him I needed to see him (the email purge), he said ‘I do want to see you.’ I thought up until now that he was trying to placate me but his comment was a complete non-sequitur because the conversation was about him doing something for me, not about whether or not we wanted to see each other. He said ‘I need to find a block of three hours’ and I said, ‘it won’t take that long.’ (To my place, purge, leave.)
I now realize that he was trying to regain control – he couldn’t agree to see me without convincing himself and letting me know that HE wanted to see me. He completely ignored that I only needed/wanted to see him for the five minutes it would take to do the ‘favor.’ He could have easily done it the day I expected on his way home. Instead, he went directly home and put it off for another four days, twisting something simple and making me stay in touch with him, all because he had to convince himself that he was in control. He finally broke when I threatened to go to his house – my ace in the hole. God that whole thing was exhausting… even to write!
SMH
Narcsite is definitely a logic infusion and, everyday that I am here, I learn something new and fascinating. I bet your ex wasn’t too happy when you threatened to go to his house. That will get you painted black real fast!
The whole dynamic is like a mini cyclone; they suck you in, wreak havoc with your life and spit you out, then off they go looking for their next target. And your stuck with the aftermath; it is exhausting just reading about it.
He wasn’t happy K, because he didn’t even know that I knew where he lived. He straightened up real quick after that. Gave me a day and a time in advance and stuck to it. Mini cyclone is right.
Wow , I’m stil in shock that this happens . I can not understand how you don’t at least say I’m done and goodbye . I’m sure he’s moved on and I will never hear from him again but man it just sucks to know everything we had was a lie . Thanks for the link
You are welcome Fightergirl
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Both you and I would provide closure and say goodbye because we have the empathic trait of Decency. That is what a decent person does, however, the narcissist lacks this trait because he needs your fuel, so he just vanishes “into the wind” leaving you confused and hurt (thought fuel) and, because you want closure, the door remains open to future hoovers or to draw you back into the narcissistic cycle. He needed your positive fuel during seduction, your negative fuel during devaluation and he wants both positive and negative fuel when he hoovers. You are there to provide him with fuel; you are not free.
It was all a big, fat lie and it does suck, however, he is not gone; the formal relationship (FR) may be over but the narcissistic one is forever.
Read this link when you have a chance so you really understand what you are dealing with.
https://narcsite.com/2018/08/05/5-common-no-contact-mistakes-no-2-2/
K – you are awesome x
Thank you Quasi! XO
HG—thank you for you this blog. It is illuminating, chilling, and spot on (love your humor when you decide to show it as well)! Your books have also been extremely helpful.
I am two weeks post IPSS relationship—I found out on my own that my N was at the very least still married at the beginning of our involvement. Your blog is helping me to wrap my head around what has happened, and for me to give myself my own closure.
The formal relationship in my situation was ended with a message saying that though my N felt good things towards me, I seemed to be developing feelings and that we could only stay friends…and that he would always stay in touch with me (this is following a weekend that appeared to be a test of boundaries and submissiveness, interspersed with flattery and future talk). The immediately preceding message mentioning getting together again as well.
I believe we were still in the golden stage as I was not subjected to a devaluation stage. This does not seem like a commonplace discard from what I have read. In your opinion, could this have actually just been a managing down of expectations or possibly meant to shelve me while concentrating more on his wife (or another IPSS)…or maybe even a further test? I requested nc after that, btw, as I had discovered by this point that his whole image was a lie/game.
Thank you!
“smearing you with the residue of the relationship so that you feel tainted for the rest of your life”
Nope!
It’s all smoke and mirrors.
Question for anyone….. did anyone move away to to get rid of the Ever Presence? How far? Did it help? Thanks for your input. Its something I’ve considered.
IdaNoe
I moved away to be separate from my narcs (husband and two of my sons). It worked great for me. House had nothing in it to remind me of them, different area, different stores, different drive to work. And the work of setting up the new house and life took up a lot of my mind and concentration so I didn’t think about the past as much. I moved about 50 miles or an hours drive into the backend of nowhere and that was further than they were willing to drive when they wanted something.
IdaNoe
Moving helped me. I went 2000 miles away. With the last I was roughly 2 1/2 hours away and I didn’t visit the same places we had gone together until recently and that has been almost 4 years.
I will say not having anything from my marriage has help considerable, I have not forgotten him yet he is in the farthest place in my memories, it took me a second to recognize him in a picture I was given about a year ago, Hell I barely recognized myself in the picture.
Yes I moved away. It was very helpful. New places , fewer reminders. He doesn’t know where I live now. I find that comforting.
IdaNoe, I didn’t move. I didn’t change a thing. But HE moved – family issues, nothing to do with me. It has made a difference.
When he told me he was probably moving I said “oh, that’s one thing I worried about but now that it’s real, it doesn’t bother me – just means you now score -100 on the checklist of whether I will return to you.”
It wasn’t the reason I did not go back – he travels all the time and we didn’t see each other that much anyway – but since he said “we might as well be in different countries now,” when he was trying to persuade me back across the 5 miles of distance then between us, I said “exactly, and that’s part of the problem.” Ha. Hoisted by his own petard again.
Now there are 500 miles between us sometimes and 3500 miles between us other times. But it’s better than 5!
Thank you all for the input. I figured it might help. My Matrinarc is dying but I dont think it will make a difference. Ghosts are ghosts and there everywhere. Thank you again!
Moved to the far north of Scotland once from the south of England to get away from one. Caught him trying to get a 16 year old to go camping with him. I’d been living with him a year at this point, thought we would get married, meanwhile he told her I only lived there cause he felt sorry for me and I had nowhere to go, amongst many other things.
This guy was unbelievable. When he moved me in, his ex lived in the room below us, having just split up with him and moved out of his (he didn’t tell me of course). He’d leave all doors open and encourage me to be as loud as possible during sex. How that poor girl must have felt.
Short story, when I found all this out I dumped his ass and moved 300 miles north to start a new life. He begged, pleaded, threatened to come up there with a ring. I never spoke to him again.
That was all in 2012. He still hoovers. Sends me pictures of his mother! (who I never met). I have no attachment to him, never answered.
The move was the best thing for me as it destroyed the bonds immediately. Of course, 3 months later I fell into the arms of yet another narc who dragged me around Scotland for 2 years but that’s another story!
Wherever you go, there you are.
I always feel like one of those poor birds that gets pulled out of an oil slick after dealing with a narc. You know those birds are going to get scrubbed for hours with detergent but some of the oil will always remain. It is a suffocating, sick, dark feeling.
I think the feeling we get being around them is how they truly feel all the time, underneath it all. The sick void at the heart. A terrifying prospect and one I would do anything to avoid, if I were one of their kind.
Luckily, I’m not. I have a fountain, not a void inside and that fountain finally powers ME. I am learning how to operate my shield now and although it’s not yet impenetrable it won’t be long.
Thank you again for your work. I am now 4 or 5 weeks full no contact (can’t even remember!) bar thoughts of him which are getting less and less frequent. I’ve been tempted to contact him only once, after I got a call from an unknown number. I would have been tempted much more often were it not for this blog and your books, which have been dosing me heavily with reality.
Pain is gain.
Though I was sorely tempted, I did not fail. Your daily postings are an excellent reminder to me about the futility of contact.
I grow stronger by the minute. I live by the empath creed:
Do no harm; take no shit.
Well done VioletColoured.
The work here helps as you say with a dose of reality in weaker moments. I found !hat too.
It really is not easy at all.. Still early days.
However don’t use time as an indicator.. in other words thinking that it has been all this time or that and now I should be better than this or anything like that if you feel a weak moment.
You get them anyway.. even further down the line that’s what I have found.
Nevertheless we are all different.
My point really is stay kind to yourself.. because when you’re kind to yourself you have compassion and understand not to be hard on yourself when a weak moment comes. you know all this but sometimes it’s just good when somebody comes and stands at your shoulder for a moment and says they can hear your heart.
Well done you. Isn’t it awful having to have gone through it all.. of course we are going to be stronger for it.. it’s just all so unfair isnt it.
Be well x
Thank you. I have been focusing on pouring my kindness on myself recently and it feels so good. Gym, swim, sauna, steam, baths and face masks, plenty of rest and amazing food.
I had such a strange thought yesterday while swimming (I meditate whilst I swim and this brings up all sorts).
I thought, ‘you don’t ever have to be cruel to yourself’ and it was such a revelation. It’s like I finally realised my self talk can always be kind and loving. I can be on my own side!
Such a beautiful concept, and so alien to me up until now.
HG what about a piece of jewelry I left in his place..means a lot was from my sister and expensive..I ended things not him, at first I did ask for it back and then changed my mind said keep it what ever Il get another ..not a word from him since Did I do the right thing I was a IPSSs…
The right thing was to have no contact whatsoever.