Never Let Go
I was engaged in a discussion recently with Dr E. The conversation concerned relationships.
“So, when you end a relationship, tell me how do you feel about it?” he began as he unfolded his notebook and found a fresh page.
“I do not end my relationships,” I replied.
“I see, so they are always ended by the other person are they?” he asked.
“No.”
He waited to see if I was going to say anything else but I remained silent. Come on Dr E, let’s see where you are going with this. You cannot outsmart me. He sat looking at me and I at him.
“Those answers suggest to me then that your relationships do not end.”
Give Dr E enough time and he always gets there.
“Exactly,” I answered.
“I see. We have discussed a number of relationships that you have and have had. With family members, acquaintances, friends and of course lovers. Now, from what you have explained to me I would certainly regard many of those relationships having come to an end, either by your doing or, though admittedly less often, at the hand of the other person.”
“Your concept of a relationship evidently differs from mine.”
“Please, expand on that point.”
“My relationships begin when I determine that they should begin,” I started to speak. Dr E frowned but said nothing. I could tell he wanted me to provide clarity to that assertion and I was happy to oblige.
“When I detect somebody who will prove of use to me then our relationship has already begun. It matters not whether we have spoken in person or even made any kind of contact. The decision that the relationship has begun rests with me.”
Dr E was making notes as I spoke.
” The nature of the relationship is defined by what use that person is to me in providing me with my fuel. If the fuel they provide is strong and potent then I will be spending a lot of time with that person, others less so. I dictate the pace at which the relationship will develop by such criteria that I understand people like you apply to relationships.”
“What criteria are those?” asked Dr E.
“Instances such as familiarity with one another, whether there is a hand shake or a kiss on greeting, the name by which we call one another, whether they can be relied on to provide information, whether they will lend money, whether we go to certain places together and how often, whether we live together, all of these things are what you measure a relationship by.”
“And do you regard those criteria as instances that ought to happen over a particular period of time?”
“No. They are all measurements by which I know people like you determine the nature of the relationship. I use them as markers by which the level of fuel can be influenced, accordingly, I will move them along at a pace which suits my demands for fuel.”
“But not according to anyone else’s input or say a generally accepted norm from society?”
“Well, the other person has to consent to the act, I mean, I haven’t imprisoned anyone in my home. Yet.” I smiled.
“But if they are to provide their consent surely that means the timescale is taken out of your hands?”
“Not at all. I just make them consent in accordance with my timescale,” I said.
“By exerting the influences you have described to me previously?”
“Exactly.”
Dr E remained silent as he continued to write.
“So you determine when the relationship begins and the pace at which it proceeds and this relationship never ends?”
“Yes.”
“But some of the instances of your intimate relationships that you have described to me certainly fit with the concept that they have ended.”
“Not at all. If I have cast someone to one side because, as they always do, they have let me down in some way, then I will not let them walk away. They might think they have been able to do this. Indeed, in certain instances I encourage that train of thought so that the person’s defences remain down and thus they are susceptible to me resurrecting our interaction. Nobody leaves me and I do not leave anybody. They will always serve some kind of purpose, at some point and therefore there may be a pause in our interaction but there is never a cessation.”
“What if the other person decides they no longer wish to interact with you?”
“Why on earth would they think that?” I asked puzzled.
“Well, your treatment of many of them was harsh and unpleasant.”
“But no less than they deserved. People need to know their place and if they step outside of that they must be brought to heel.”
“Why?” asked Dr E.
“Because I gave them everything and each time they repay me by letting me down. That is unfair. Each time I give them the world, I really do doctor and no matter how wonderful I am to them they do not do enough in return and they let their affection become dull or they fail to provide me with the adoration that I deserve. It is wrong and they must be made to see how wrong they are punished for their transgressions.”
“So you maintain a relationship to punish the other person?”
“In part yes, but it is usually because they still prove of use to me and they have their debt to me to repay.”
“I see,” remarked Dr E and he continued with his writing.
“And when do they repay this debt?” he asked.
“That’s the problem doctor, ” I said with a sigh, ” they never do. That is why I never let them go.”
30 thoughts on “Never Let Go”
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HG there are certainly some you never contact again right ?
Only those who are beyond the capacity to be contacted.
I think my latest narc isn’t contacting me again, because I am too far away to be of use to him. Can that be?
Or he isn’t one …
HG, what happens with your kind who do not have a malign nature? Do they feel the same as you do? Never let go? What if they always have an IPPS and can obtain sufficient fuel?
It is an unconscious form of ownership.
You are freaking insane.
Not at all. I cause insanity.
It’s like that old movie Pacific Heights .
Narcs lock down inside your head & heart..steal,destroy,distort,devalue, drain,lie,cheat, trash, smear..and by the time you get back inside …they have robbed you of just about everything.
Get out, stay out!
Good film.
This is interesting because I ask the therapist if she had a lot of Narcissists in treatment. The answer was some but not really. Narcissists only come to therapy under extreme duress or court order. They go not believe anything is wrong with them. They falsely believe their victims are the problem. I mostly treat the people they damage
This may solve the concern of never getting involved with another narcissist. On first date, I can say: “I have one narcissist who thinks we are connected until death; another possible narcissist who thinks death is too easy and has already called for eternity. Unless you are into sharing, I apparently already owe two a debt I can’t repay.” Now if only I can figure out how to say that without scaring off a non-narcissist.
(Sarcastic post)
“He waited to see if I was going to say anything else but I remained silent. Come on Dr E, let’s see where you are going with this. You cannot outsmart me. He sat looking at me and I at him.”
This is why narcissists so often don’t seek therapy. They think they’re smarter than any therapist and they don’t believe there’s anything wrong with them. Not much there for a therapist to work with, aside from increasing their own knowledge of NPD.
Your therapist is not trying to outsmart you. HG.
You are such a fucker,like my boss, but I still deal with it because I think I’m probably an emotional masochist myself. I don’t know anymore. I’m an empath but I feel like I have narc traits also. My boss pays me to cuss him out (he really pays me for it).He craves it. He says no one else is allowed to talk to him like that. He triangulates the hell out of me until he gets a rise out of me and I go on the attack. I never know who or what it’s going to be. As I posted before we are a mad mix. I am an African/American Christian Empath and he is a Lebanese Shia Muslim Narcissist (I believe greater narc) so I’m surprised I’m not dead fucking around with him but actually we are like best friends as crazy as that sounds. I know I mean about as much as a coffee pot but we have never had sex, just talk about it constantly or rub up against each other in passing in the office. I’ve met his wife, kids, parents, friends, colleagues. I’ve seen him beat his side wife (muslim also) but he has never tried to hit me. I’m a spoiled secretary but I believe if I can get rid of my emotional thinking I could GOSO, but I like making the money every weekend. I have a real job elsewhere(Mon-Fri)
That is so damn funny! I had a boss the exact same total Narc and I was the only one who got away with ripping him a new one. I have had 2 narc boyfriends. I have been diagnosed as Codependent aka Narc bait
Is there any way of paying the debt …or could we become that abhorrent to you that you would run as fast as you can … I suppose Im hoping here!!
But HG, IF a perfect No Contact is followed, is it ever really over? From what you say, you never let go but will other schools of your kind give up and just find fuel elsewhere? Because truly the game only ends when both sides leave the field of play.
Michael
Not from our perspective for reasons already explained, but if we cannot hoover you then the dynamic remains suspended and then end when either party eventually dies.
If he would just let me die….I would begin to feel alive again.
I commented earlier and Sept 19, I want to GOSO but I wanted to know is your kind always violent and vindictive because he knows where I live and possibly work? I took a new job and told him it was a secret about my location which pissed him off but I explained that the whole summer I tried to tell him about my new job and he ignored the crap out of me so I said I’m not telling you. He knows the district I work for but not the school. (I think) He wants me to come to his business everyday and this has been going on for 5 years now (he owns 4 in the U.S. and 2 in Lebanon) but will not be intimate with me. He just pays me to keep his records, write checks, admire him, cry occasionally, act jealous and cuss him out. He told me matter-of-factly this weekend that he doesn’t pay me to work (which is really just hanging out) he said he pays for me to cuss him out…lol
I agree, completely. But for me, as a HPD with secondary NPD traits, the dynamic stops when I completely lose interest in the guy. It happens and when it happens, I don’t even remember them, like they have never existed, I feel nothing about them, pooof, they’re gone. Does it happen to you?
Permanent suspension then.
That’s what will occur when hoovering is unsuccessful due to all criteria being met except 6th sphere… But still in general permanent suspension.
Feels very much like the end.
It is not a bad result.
… ‘ff it walks like a duck’. yada yada yada.
Once again I’m trying to apply this to my own situation with an unaware narc. Which, unapologetically, is after all why I’m here.
So to me what this means is that other than those of his past relationships who’ve figured him out and have him in NC, he is still in touch with everyone he’s ever had a relationship with? His whole life? Can this possibly be true?
Not all of the time, but subject to the hoover trigger and the hoover execution criteria.
Not completely certain that even death itself will bring an end. Pretty sure I will still be triangulated in someway or dug up and told I wounded them by dying. ( eyes rolling)
Michael
True. Thanks for the laugh.
so if we are ipss we are still owned ?
“What if the other person decides they no longer wish to interact with you?”
“Why on earth would they think that?” I asked puzzled.
But you do know why, you couldn’t have been puzzled. You’re here helping us, indeed encouraging us, to do exactly that. To go NC. Why would that not apply to those in your own life?