Obsessed
I want you to be happy. I am so in love with you. You are everything that I have ever wanted, you are like a dream come true, my soul mate, my other half, you complete me. You have no idea just what you do to me. I just want to love you like nobody else ever has. Yes, I am obsessed with you. I want to merge with you and become one. I am not just obsessed with you but with everything about you and most of all your happiness. I just want to ensure that someone as brilliant as you, someone as wonderful as you, someone as marvellous as you is made to feel special. You deserve that. I know. I know something, or rather somebody has hurt you before. I know you do not want to talk about it. That is absolutely fine. You do not have to talk about it with me. You see, I can tell. I have a sixth sense if you will for knowing about these things. It is just the way I am and let me tell you that you should feel no shame for that. You should not be upset that you have been hurt because I am going to put an end to the hurt. I am always going to look after you, help you, hold you and comfort you. No matter what the world throws at us, throws at you, I will be by your side. I want to keep all the malice and bad things in this world away from someone as special and as perfect as you. I regard that as my calling. I was sent to look after you. It is true. It was not just chance that brought you and me together, not at all. I was sent to make you happy. It has been decided that what happened in the past will stay in the past and instead I have come to bring you happiness, great glorious golden happiness. I will not rest in my desire to see you happy at all times. When you are happy, I am happy. My happiness is conditional on yours, that is just the way I am. No matter what happens, I will not give up on you. I will ensure that everything is great again. I give you my word. I am totally committed to achieving your happiness. I will do anything in the world to see you smile, to see your eyes light up and to know that you feel wonderful. You are an amazing person and you, more than anyone else in the world, deserves happiness. I know how to provide it you and if that means that you think that I am obsessed with achieving it then so be it, but it is a noble aim. It is a good and laudable endeavour to ensure your happiness. I will aim each and every day, without hesitation, without reluctance and without restraint to deliver this for you. I want to do this for you, I want to do this for us. You are the most important person in the world to me. You have made me feel so special being with me and I always want that feeling to continue, now and forever. I want to give that to you in return for all the scintillating things you give to me. I am truly blessed to have coupled with you and no matter how difficult things might become, no matter how hard others may make it I will not shirk from achieving your complete and utter happiness. I was born to do this. I am utterly beholden to you and your happiness. This is my obsession. You are my obsession. I am obsessed with you.
A period of time passes.
You want me to be happy. You are so in love with me. I am everything that you have ever wanted, I am like a dream come true, your soul mate, your other half, I complete you. I have every idea just what I do to you. You just want to love me like nobody else ever has. Yes, you are obsessed with me. You want to merge with me and become one. You are not just obsessed with me but with everything about me and most of all my happiness. You just want to ensure that someone as brilliant as me, someone as wonderful as me, someone as marvellous as me, is made to feel special. I deserve that. You know. You know something, or rather somebody has hurt me before. You know I do not want to talk about it. That is absolutely fine. I will not have to talk about it with you. You can tell. You have a sixth sense if you will for knowing about these things. It is just the way you are and you tell me that I should feel no shame for that. I should not be upset that I have been hurt because you are going to put an end to the hurt. You will always look after me, help me, hold me and comfort me. No matter what the world throws at us, throws at me, you will be by my side. You want to keep all the malice and bad things in this world away from someone as special and as perfect as me. You regard that as your calling. You were sent to look after me. It is true. It was not just chance that brought you and me together, not at all. You were sent to make me happy. It has been decided that what happened in the past will stay in the past and instead you have come to bring me happiness, great glorious golden happiness. You will not rest in your desire to see me happy at all times. When I am happy, you are happy. Your happiness is conditional on mine, that is just the way you are. No matter what happens, you will not give up on me. You will ensure that everything is great again. You give me your word. You are totally committed to achieving my happiness. You will do anything in the world to see me smile, to see my eyes light up and to know that I feel wonderful. I am an amazing person and I, more than anyone else in the world, deserves happiness. You know how to provide it me and if that means that I think that you are obsessed with achieving it then so be it, but it is a noble aim. It is a good and laudable endeavour to ensure my happiness. You will aim each and every day, without hesitation, without reluctance and without restraint to deliver this for me. You want to do this for me, you want to do this for us. I am the most important person in the world to you. I have made you feel so special being with you and you always want that feeling to continue, now and forever. You want to give that to me in return for all the scintillating things I give to me. You are truly blessed to have coupled with me and no matter how difficult things might become, no matter how hard others may make it you will not shirk from achieving my complete and utter happiness. You were born to do this. You are utterly beholden to me and my happiness. This is your obsession. I am your obsession. You are obsessed with me.
Think I am the only one who engages in mirroring?
Think again.
177 thoughts on “Obsessed”
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HG, if they genuinely believe they’re in love and this is ‘the one’ when they start out ‘stalking’ someone, that person indicates they will be receptive but never actually is. How does that make them feel inside?
Only since I told this latest one that it’s probably not a good idea for us to message anymore on LinkedIn (nothing at all has happened, nothing) I’ve had lots of unnecessary meeting minutes sent to me along with a 500% increase in LinkedIn invites from people I don’t know.
I can only imagine he is banging his head and dick off a wall somewhere in a quiet room.
Hate you!
How does that indication of being receptive manifest? Do you mean the person says ‘Yes I would like to go on a date with you’ but then does not? If so, their response is fuel, the failure to do so will wound (or maybe challenge fuel dependent on the manifestation).
Ooh thanks HG clearly I love you again now x
i Imagine based on my kindness and flirtation towards him and his response it is therefore challenge fuel.
Is it possible to wound and challenge simultaneously in some circumstances?
Based on your response it would be my perception that there would have been an initial wound by a swift take over of challenge fuel?
Or could it only be an immediate challenge?
Yes it is.
Wonderful thought!
Hmmm…sounds more like a « folie à deux »….
…. ..
Just testing notifications
This is exactly why I say codepency is her similar to Narcissism in many aspects. It’s as if a Codepebdent and the Narcissust are inverted images of one another each mirroring each other. Until the mirror cracks and it always does.
Lori
I agree with you that they have stark similarities. However…My boyfriend is a co-dependent acquaintance that I snatched away from his mid-range narcissist wife. A very powerful one, I might add. Watching her try to destroy me for months on end along with her current town-wide self-destruction phase the past few months has been humorous to watch and prod along. Anyways, she had been living with a convicted child molester for the last five out of their 15 year marriage and I taught him all about narcissists and how they work. He was shocked by how correct I was on her present, past and future behaviors and the truth slowly but steadily dawned on him and he decided to go no contact and let me deal with her. I had been single for over 10 years before meeting him. Trust me when I tell you, there is nothing more satisfying for an empath than to end up with a kind-hearted co-dependent. Yes, they have similarities to narcissists but they are not narcissists. That man would move heaven and hell to make me happy and I would do the same for him. It is the fairy tale, except, it is very real, each and every day.
I am a clinically diagnosed Codepebdent and I will tell you many Codependents have strong narcissistic traits reason being we are talking about the same childhood wounds here. Not all Codepebdents present as the Doormat. I have many Super Empath traits but I am a diagnosed Codepebdent. The way I deal with people can change depending upon the person or situation. We can be quite selfish just like Narcs we want what we want Both Narcs and Codeps are the same wound that manifest it opposite ways.
I don’t want to freak you out or be a downer but if your boyfriend is a true Codepebdent he is likely to bore of you in time. Codepebdents continually fight boredom. The boredom is really lonliness that we try to continually fight. I know myself looking back over things I unconsciously crave the excitement of a narc. Both of my narc relationships incredibly intense. 1st narc said it was like we were addicted to each other and we were. 2nd narc and I discussed how we were complete complements of one another. We were immediately drawn to each other and in the first few months would stay up all night talking to each other. We often said how happy we made each other. Of course it was a hall of mirrors. A narc feels incredibly comfortable to a Codepebdent and vice versa.
If I’m being honest Codepebdents are the healthiest choice for a relationship. You will see this manifest as time goes on. Certainly better choice than a narc but I will tell you ifvge is truly a codep he is likely to seek a narc again whether consciously or unconsciously
I will tell you and I’m being honest here the “let you deal with her” is a bit concerning. I will tell you the Narc /Codep relationship is pathological and dysfunctional and it is often hard to tell which one is which by the end will of it. I will give you this advice proceed with extreme caution.
Lori,
I will try to explain this dynamic better in a later post but for now… A true co-dependent is almost incapable of dealing with a narcissist, even when they know what they are. Everything is all good now, he is happily divorced and she is currently in self-destruct mode because I have cut off most of her fuel lines and we are no contact with her and the police know of her evil nastiness, despite being a former business owner in town. When narcissists self-destruct, they REALLY self-destruct. As a co-dependent, I know he needs daily validation and I honestly give it to him in huge amounts. He loves it and glows like a proud and happy little boy and slowly I am teaching him that he is good enough and how to set boundaries with others. It is a WONDERFUL relationship where we both care deeply about the mood and feelings of the other. Very satisfying for us both! Not possible for a narcissist to tempt him anymore. He is showered by me with the love, praise and the affection that he craves in HUGE amounts. I know he needs it to heal. I also constantly let him, “help” me even when I don’t need it but I am slowly teaching him that he does not always have to do this for me to be proud of him. Hope this helps a little in understanding the dynamic.
Lori, I agree. Both, codependency and NPD have a common core: a lost self. NPD people develop very rigid boundaries while codependents have very, if not extremely, weak ones. I have read many of your comments saying codependency is about control. I do not totally agree with that. Yes, control may be a part of it, a coping mechanism, but at the core of codependency there is a lost self, just like narcs. IMO.
Lou, i totally agree with this , a lost self.
Look up anything about codependency of speak to a therapist or is absolutely about control it’s not necessarily a lost sense of self but more of a dysfunctional sense of self
Lori, I have and what I have read is that there is no general consensus on a definition of codependency. Control, or controlling behaviors, is listed as just one of the characteristics of codependents, along with low self steem, internalized shame, painful feelings such as resentment, fear, anxiety, anger, despair and depression, denial, dysfunctional boundaries, etc.
Yes, control patterns is a part of it, just like avoidance patterns or compliance patterns.
I really don’t think codependency is all about control. It goes beyond that.
I have had 2 very normal long term relationships with normals and I have also been involved in 2 narcissistic relationships both times I was snatched by the narcissist from the normal out of pure boredom. I just want to warn you beaware of that with a Codepebdent and if he’s truly Codepebdent and been in that 15 years the boredom will come with a normal and another Narcissist will enter the picture. This will all likely be unconsciots but there’s is high probability of it happening
Both conditions bring boundary issues which is why enmeshmevt occurs. Neither know where they end and the other begins. A narcissist has no real self instead s false one is invented. A Codepebdent can have a lost self but more often it’s a dysfunctional one
I’m not suggesting you break up with your boyfriend or anything and if he hasn’t been in therapy you have no way of knowing for sure whether he’s truly Codependent,but if he was with a narc 15 years there are some issues there for sure. Normal healthy people couldn’t stay 15 years in that chaos they rarely make it 1 year. In just suggesting you be very careful here. A Codepebdent will not set out to hurt you and if they do they will feel tons of guilt shame and remorse. You may go years before a narc comes in between your relationship but one is likely to come. It did to me twice. Is that carved in stone ? No. This all happening to me completely unconsciously. Even with all the knowledge and therapy I’ve had I did not see #2 was a narcissist. If you would ask me did I seek out this narcissist ? No, but I can tell you I was completely drawn to him. The magnetism between a Narc and a Codepebdent is strong and intense and confused with “chemistry”
Sorry accidentally hit post. also look if he suffers with any orher issues like anxiety or OCD related behaviors. I have had anxiety off and on for years as wells as bouts of OCD type behaviors though I was not diagnosed with full blown OCD just tendencies that accompany anxiety. In recent years, I have been much better and I am off all medication, yet I still got involved with another Narc difference this time is I am able to havdle the pain anc fallout of if much better. My coping skills have improved through education and therapy on why I behave and feel the way I do but again I was still taken in by one. I am not a cured Codepebdent but merely an aware one
With all that said, I am not a therapist just a diagnosed Codepebdent. Only a therapist can tell you of your guy is truly a Codepebdent. Wten I got to therapy I was convinced I was a Borderline which I was told absolutely not but that’s the thing with these disorders they can all mimic and look like other cluster b disorders
I live a pretty “normal” life , but I attract Narcissists would sum it up
Hi lou…your post is so true thats why codependants and narcs are drawn to each other bc of this loss of self. I think when people think of a codependant they think helpless dependant but theres many that are independant in other areas in life but within a relationship romantic or otherwise they are dependant on that person in some way. Its something within them just like a narc. Unresolved issues from the past. Anyone who stays in an abusive relationship or keeps going back is codependant in my opinion.
Hi Chihuahuamum. I agree with you. Codependency has many aspects and each codependent is different. I also agree with you in that, if someone stays in an abusive relationship or keeps going back, that person is a codependent or has codependency traits.
It’s is for me. Most Codepebdents struggle with some type of anxiety, OCD type behaviors, eating disorders etc.. all control related behaviors. Codependents always seek to control their environment and relationships not every relationship but many of their intimate ones. I do not suffer despair at all. I may or may not exhibit Doormat behavior depends on who I am dealing with and whether if works for me to behave in such a way but when I do exhibit it is often in an attempt to control. If I were to behave in a Doormat behavior with a Narc it would be to get him to behave in a certain manner.
Codepebdents anticipate and meet peoples needs. it’s a core behavior. If you meet peoples. Needs and if you are needed by them you control them. To a Codepebdent ability to control makes you valuable I e self worth. We do not tolerate uncertainty well at that equates to a lack of control. Do I walk around feeling like I have low self esteem? No not consciously most that know me would probably say the opposite.
I have been diagnosed 8 years now. I’m not cured obviously but I am better
Lori, I agree that codependents may have a lot of control-related behaviors and that many may not realize a certain behavior may be control-related. I am not disputing that.
The question is, why does the codependent need to control?
I believe that it is the codependent’s lost sense of self that drives these control-related behaviors (and other behaviors too). As long as the codependent does not address the issue of their lost self, they will always have the need to control, deny, avoid, or comply.
This is from the book I have about Codependency: “For a codependent, it is as if the Self adapted and reacted to others’ behavior in order to cope, instead of referring back to its own internal impulses. Over time, these impulses became obscured and veiled by a proxy personality and the ability to access them weakened”.
In your two comments, you mention how the codependent’s ability to control and influence situations and other people brings them a sense of self-worth… There, that is what I am talking about. The need to feel worthy, which, IMO, relates to low self-esteem and a weak sense of self.
You do not have to have all the “symptoms”. That is what makes a codependent unique. We are all different shades in a continuum, remember?
Hi Lou,
Re: “ why does the codependent need to control ?”
In my case I think it’s because controlling my environment helps me to feel safe and secure. I can not live in uncertainty and chaos. This causes anxiety and fear.
However, my therapist says that I’m trying to control uncontrollable and so I should try and learn to let it go.
Hi Abrokenwing. Yes, codependents typically grow up in chaotic and abusive environments and that is why they have the need to control in order to feel safe. My point was that behind this need to control (need to feel safe) there is a weak sense of self.
Lou
Power and control are at the very heart of codependency. I see a lot of people here do not grasp that but it is absolutely true and any therapist will tell you that. I think the confusion comes from people only associating power and control with Narcissists but Codeps seek it too only they seek they submissive passive agresive behaviors in an opposite way from Narcissists. Personally I think the best way to describe Codepebdents is Narcissists who have empathy. We are talking about people with the same wound which is why their root behaviors are really quite similar they just use different tools. The power, the seeking to control, the external focus is all the same the main difference being the ability to experience empathy. Codeps don’t feel empathy 24 /7 you’ll likely see it fluctuate with their interest and or ability to comtrol or Influence a person or situation in which they have an interest and how much self worth it provides them
You can’t quite understand it all if you are not one anc trying to grasp it from a book. I did not have a chaotic upbringing whatsoever yet I still am one.
I do not really have a lost self. I have a dysfunctional relationship with self.
Brokenwing
I believe you would agree the controlling behavior equates to power. Power and control bring a number of things to the Codep. Safety and stability. Codeps absolutely detest uncertainty yet we will continually find ourselves in relationships that are uncertain. You know what they say what you resist persists.
Codependency shares many traits with other cluster Bs. When I first went to therapy I never thought I was a Codep. The Narc had me in such an emotional state I was convinced I had borderline personality disorder which I was emphatically told I’m not. Serious Codeps can often look like Narcs of Bpd s and it makes sense because it’s all different manifestations of the same wound. It’s really the Codep that understands the Narc like no other. This is why when the Codep anc the Narc meet they feel like soul mates and in a sense they are
They say it’s curable. I for one don’t think it’s entirely curable. I thinks it’s manageable. Have you been diagnosed ?
I know I saw somewhere that HG basically referred to a co-dependent as quite delicious. The terms co-dependent and empath confuse me. What exactly is he referring to? Both have empathy so what’s the difference?
There are four schools of empath – Co-Dependent, Super, Standard and Contagion. They are all empaths. So if someone refers to an empath, that is the Standard Empath which the majority of empaths are.
I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments . You all got valid points. I’m going to do more research about codependency , since I’ve been mis- diagnosed twice in my teenage years from schizophrenia to BPD to normal ! So confusing . I do feel safe and in “ control “ if my environment reacts positively when I show/give/share “love “ (in my perception of love) . When someone denies me not accepting my love and the peacefull “ controled” enviroment disappears I feel “ woundend” and will try to give it else where until I feel satisfied again to being a “ good loving person” . But when everyone tries to help me or listen to me I shut down and hide or brush it off . The boredome comes when there is no chaos that I need to clean up . I ‘ am blind to being “abused” I can understand it yet not feel it as me being treated awful .
Thank you all for your comments .
My narc used to smirk in her, now ingrained in my mind self satisfying manner when I’d tell her about the woman in my past that I’d once obsessed over.
She loved that I could be so obsessive… and how I now know why.
We were together nearly 4 years..
We’ve been apart nearly 4 years..
My obsessing comes in waves… Currently I need to watch videos and read… I have periods of respite, then more.
Being bisexual worked in my favour.. She sent her ex husband to ensnare me in blame.. He defected.
The subsequent supply also saught me out at the end.
I feel like I have committed to healing all the targets my narc destroys.
Certainly the extra wedges of knowledge about the pie chart that is my ex have made a huge difference, both in validation and keeping that mirror of illusion shattered, keeping me well away from the super glue.
You don’t need to heal anyone or fix anyone but yourself. Those “fixing” type behaviors will bring another Narc.
Pheonix
HG Tudor
MARCH 20, 2018 AT 18:04
The smirk is to provoke. It is representative of contempt.
This is why I thought I was a Narc too. I mirrored just like you said. This happened exactly as you’ve written.
The only exception is…. I meant every word, truly and deeply.
No future faking with me.
Must you always get them obsessed with you? Is that what makes you feel important and fuelled?
Yes, one day we will criminalize your “mental deficiencies” … 🙂 🙂 🙂 And oh what a day of rejoicing that will be…cue baptist song…
Don’t hold your breath.
Such a beautiful day here in Texas and this board has given me an endless amount of enjoyment and laughter the past few days. “Don’t hold my breath.” You’re a jolly smart chap. Playing a dramatic musical score, you know that in the end, there can only be one of us. LOL You should have learned by now that good always triumphs over evil. 🙂 🙂 🙂 And you and your kind are already on your knees. Ya’ll need us, we do not need you…
Interesting though because I have always moved forward leaving others strewn in my wake. Good does not triumph over evil because what is good? What is evil? There is no ultimate judge.
I addressed the “ultimate judge” in a previous post. Life itself is your ultimate judge and your punishment, for now, is in walking the earth always hungry and never being able to be satisfied. No amount of admiration, status, wealth or accomplishments will ever leave you satisfied and happy like the rest of us are capable of. You are very well aware of this fact and it is the source of your unending jealousy of other people’s contentment and happiness.
You have only managed to “move forward leaving others in your wake,” because of the countless other narcissists who came before you and kept the awareness of your presence and manipulations, a top secret affair. You get away with your crimes because you are all cowards who desperately hide from the blinding light of truth. What is evil? You and your kind with your selfish and evil intents. What is good? An absence of evil intents. Simple as that. Despite what I’ve heard often repeated, the metaphorical road to hell is not paved with good intents.
Why do I call your kind cowards who are currently on your knees? You know as well as I do
that once people understand what you are and how you operate, you lose all of your“perceived” power over them because what you think of as power, is based on a huge deception. It is not real power at all. Just another one of your silly delusions based on a self-constructed false reality. You only “win” because the playing field is not even. So how much of a win is it, in reality? As soon as the playing field is equaled by knowledge, you become powerless. The power is owned, in reality, by the people you must grovel to in order to feel some resemblance of what it is to be truly alive. Everything you achieve in life is meaningless because you can not derive any lasting pleasure from ANY of it. Your “kingdoms” will always be divided and its contents given to others. Even your writings will be taken from you and given to those deserving of them, who in the end, will destroy your kind with it’s knowledge. The most satisfying part of this, to me, is knowing, despite your vehement protestations to the contrary, that the most intentionally evil of your kind are fully aware of this knowledge and your self-awareness makes you forced to live with that knowledge.
I am entirely comfortable with my self-awareness. It causes no trouble for me. My work spans the globe (both professionally and my writing). Nothing of mine is taken from me and given elsewhere. My writings will not be taken from me, they are mine and their impact has assisted many, many people and thus creates a legacy. What I do has meaning and it is entertaining to see your preoccupation with seeking to protest repeatedly against me. Life is not the ultimate judge, life bends to my will. I do not need happiness, it is something which I do not experience, but that does not make me unhappy, because I do not experience that either. I am effective and achieve success. The fact is that one as skilled as I means that others never know about my power because they never see me coming and there are hundreds of millions who remain unaware and one will never be short of victims. Whilst I do and achieve, you remain preoccupied with the valedictory wail of the victim. I have seen this before and it has no effect.
Narcissists focus on here and now they are atheists and are not spiritual aside from religious narcissists who pretend to be. What about after you leave this world? Do you ever wonder what then? I think narcissists are so focused on themselves and now that they dont see the bigger picture only their built up world.
HG youre right you are helping others and leaving a legacy which is meaningful but so many narcissists dont except destroy peoples lives.
Whatever. You know I’m right and your projections and protestations don’t bother me in the least, I see them for what they are. 🙂 🙂 🙂
No, I know you are wrong and I actually see your protestations for what they are. I have seen them before and know what you are.
You amuse me!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
I am glad you know what I am, if in fact, you do. It makes this game we play, that much more enjoyable. Someone on the board recently professed they don’t know what’s happening but I have no doubt, you do. I like the fact that you play at a higher level. 🙂 🙂 🙂 Keeps my kind from getting bored!
I see…
Jolly good.
Your half truth crap annoys me…Only because I realize that you know better.
I do not understand my fascination with you Mr Tudor. I guess kinda like Clairese was to Hanable lector. I can’t wrap my brain around it. I simply can’t look away like a train wreak.
If I were 20 this would sound romantic but right now it just makes me want to vomit. Do most women you have ensnared tolerate such high levels of love bombing? Or do you have to modify it much based on their individual levels of tolerance? For instance—too much love bombing would have sent me fleeing from my ex. It would have been just plain weird and uncomfortable.
Hi Kathy,
I agree, absolutely overkill, but as I read it I didn’t see it as every sentence being used, but as any or all of them. In my case with narcex, he didn’t say any of those things which is why I did the narc detector with HG. (He said none of those things, he wasn’t violent, not physically, not verbally, was he even a narc? HG said yes, cerebral UMRN.) I was totally obsessed with his brain, never having met one like his before (of course I’d never been aware of narcs before either). All love bombing was physical, none at all verbal. When we were out and about it was our conversations that intrigued me so desperately that I was miserable when I wasn’t with him, which was usually as we were long distance.
Interesting.. Oh I have old emails where he was ridiculously sweet. Nothing I would fall
for now—but not quite like this! Haha
HG, my NX always said, “I don’t care about happiness any more I’m not asking you to worry or I’m not asking you to forgive me ever. I’ll be fine with my darkness.. I want you very happy I want all the happiness for you from this world. I pray god give you all my happiness and give me all your pain and sorrow I want you happy.”
Why does he say this?
For fuel of course – makes him appear like some kind of martyr and thus he expects fuel from you in return, either pity or admiration. It is part of his grandiosity also.
Valkyrie….
My Piano narc said shit like that to me all the time….
“I hope that you are able to find the truest richest happiness available in all of humankind.”
Thank you
That is not mirroring. It’s faking to capture someone’s soul so that they are drawn into the emotional web of nonreciprocal giving.
Babies mirror. They do it to learn and to get attention.
Supporting someone, protecting and defending them, putting yourself and your resources into a RRECIPROCAL relationship is not what you are about. You fake until it is only coming your direction.
There is absolutely nothing whatsoever about you that makes that acceptable or that you should evade accountability for withholding your side.
More specifically, your type of behaviour destroys. It destroys individuals, societies, nations, species, the environment, and the entire world. You indiscriminately steal from and rape everything around you. Your mental deficiencies and blind arrogance should be criminalised.
So you wish to criminalise ‘mental deficiencies’ and ‘blind arrogance’ – good luck with that.
It already has been criminalised. Last I checked prison is full of sociopaths and Narcissists and if I’m not mistaken HG is in therapy due to some court order. Isn’t that correct ?
People also have a duty to protect themselves but fail to do so. If most are honest they’d see they have boundary issues. If you were with a narcissist any length of time you have boundary issues. I’m sorry if that upsets some but that’s reality
Each of us have a role in how we got ensnared
No, there is no court order. It is not the ‘mental deficiencies’ which are criminalised but certain behaviours.
I can’t help but laugh a little. HG—what species have you set out to destroy? Now that is just a bit over the top.. Like it or not narcissists contribute greatly to society and have a right to be here. I have a few narcissist friends and I adore their company. We have a blast. Naturally these are not “lessers” or societal pariahs! Folks can not forget that top surgeons saving the lives of your loved ones are not infrequently brilliant narcs who have no clue what they are! BUT I’m not sleeping with these people. Therein is my salvation. (My disclaimer on this is that my spouse is expendable but I’m bitter on that one..)
correct but the mental disorders produces the behavior so to a certain extent it has been criminalised.
HG I thought I read your therapy was not voluntary ?
It was not pursuant to a court order.
HG
Re the lessers and mid rangers who do not know about their narcissism… Do they think they mean it when they say I love you, but then just get bored easily when the fuel gets stale and then need to find a new source? Don’t they wonder why they haven’t “met the right one” and fallen in love like most everyone else? I guess what I’m wondering is how all this fits together with those who aren’t aware, they don’t even know they need fuel then, right? So they just always gravitate towards that next person that makes them “feel good?”
Yes.
Ugh. So I’ll take that to mean yes to all four questions. Which sucks, but does explain (helps me understand) why pointing it out to them would be pointless and ridiculous, and why not holding their attention is impossible and our fault. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Thank you.
What blog entries would you direct me to that discuss the behaviors of mid-rangers? I’m trying to catch up on a 3 year project of yours and the task at hand is arduous. Additionally, anything specific to empathy/co-depend. types?
Just search for mid ranger and there will be plenty of choice.
I swear to God sometimes I think I’m the Narc misdiagnosed as a Codep. I suffer with this exact boredom thing.
HG how on earth can I have so many Narcissistic traits yet be diagnosed Codepebdent? How can that be?
Everyone has narcissistic traits. As for your diagnosis, I didn’t provide it so I cannot comment.
I have given thought to that. I wonder how many people are going around misdiagnosed. Not with any intention of neglect from the medical community (although every profession has a few of those), but possibly from inexperience, unclear, untruthful, or misrepresented information from the patient (which is what they have to rely on) and fine lines and similarities between the illnesses and disorders. Just as people can receive differing diagnoses from different doctors.
NarcAngel and Lori, what are your thoughts on object constancy , is this a narc thing ? or codepedant or both ?
If I were to describe how I feel when I first get together with a Narc I would say the one word that’s describes it is “fueled ” I had a Narc boss that said I always have to make an entrance and that i suck people in to adoring me but I also cry like a baby at something sad. I cried and cried in the therapist office when discussing all the trauma that happened in my 1st narc relationship to the extent that the therapist said oh boy a lot of trauma here this guy did a real number on you and now wants to do it all over again.
A narcissist wouldn’t cry like that would they? I felt real pain and I feel real pain this time too. A narc wouldn’t feel like that would they ?
perhaps many but if I really think this over I know Narcissists don’t go to therapy unless they are in a shit ton of trouble or about to lose something. My other relationships are not in chaos and no one has ever indicated that I have a lack of empathy if anything g too much and I was described by both Narcs as very kind. in certain situations I can lack empathy though but I think most can. I can tell you I do not like to watch violence of any kind.
The thing that alarmed me is the boredom. My romantic relationships eventually become stale but I have also read and bern told that Codeps do suffer from boredom
“perhaps many but if I really think this over I know Narcissists don’t go to therapy unless they are in a shit ton of trouble or about to lose something.”
Piano boy he told me that he was in therapy with his wife after his prior affair was exposed. He is now quite adamant that he will never lose her, so I guess that statement makes sense.
Hi Im Lori and I’m attracted to Narcissists
Hi, I’m HG and I am an attractive narcissist.
Hi, I’m MB and I’m attracted to attractive narcissists.
I heard that in a neutral voice and pictured you both with the most deadpan expression and wearing a name tag. Too funny.
NA, this really is like narcaholics anonymous! The closest thing to it.
Hi I am Lou and I really wanted to take a break from the blog but I can’t!
I am obsessed.
Where are the donuts?
Hi , I’m Abw …and apparently after mentally dating fictional characters for so long my expectations are set unrealistically high.
Good one ABW!
Good one!
Hey there how are you? Ahahaha. Now that is funny shit !
In all seriousness I’m thankful for this blog inthat as I read others comments it’s helps me learn about myself. I can be gone from here days or weeks and find myself returning. I’ve asked myself is it a way of staying connected to the Narc why do I return? I think the answer yes it some ways but mostly I think because I’m learning more about myself here. I’m finding great help in a “group therapy” sometimes you have to see things in others before you can indentify it in yourself. I do know Codeps have issues with accurately indebtifying feelings
Hi im chimum and im addicted to chihuahuas then narcs 🤣😂
Chichimum
Haha. I like your style putting them in second place. In that case I am NarcAngel and I am addicted to mini weiners………oh dear………
Lisa with regard to out of sight of mind ?I think that’s mostly a narc thing though I haven’t given it much thought.
I can tell you my Narc is out of sight but not out of mind HOWEVER if another narc came along and swept me off my feet I’d be like Mr. Lesse who? Which reminds of something Mr Lesser said “Lori if this doesn’t workout I’m nit worried about you will be fine you are very attravtice and you will move right on” of course he knew it wasn’t going to workout
Okay I will play along….
Hi, my name is FOTS, and I am attracted to a mid range cerebral piano playing nerd narcissist.
And the urge to call him today is so strong.
FOTS
Piano is so pathetic and yesterday. Hold out for a massive Organ with big pipes.
LOL Narc Angel…..this made me chuckle!
My ex Lesser was on numerous dating sites whilst married to me.
His headliner “ looking for my last true love”
I’ve seen that sentence a lot on dating sites. Are they lying or do they think they love?
Wissh
“looking for my last true love”
That sounds both insulting and sarcastic to me. Like everyone is their “true love” and they’ve dumped the last one and looking for the next. That seems like a deliberate and obvious ridicule of the concept of true love. Is that a lesser thinking he’s outsmarting everyone while being obvious? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you all….
Windstorm
“Looking for my last true love”
I’d be tempted to answer: Piss me off or treat me bad and that will be true for you, ‘cause you’ll be dead.
Haha. I need to go on dating sites just for fun. Everyone nedds a hobby.
Hi WS! I’ve always interpreted hearing someone wanting to find their last true love, to mean, they are done with game playing, done with casually dating and want the real deal. They are done with hurting and want a final committed relationship.
This is why when some people who have not seen me for a long time and ask if I’m dating, I say no. If they ask why, I tell them I don’t want to just date. I want the last final relationship and I’m not going to find it online. It’ll build slowly with someone truly getting to know me over time, organically.
Thanks for explaining that, Clarece. I’ve never heard “last, true love” before. It just sounds to me it’s the last of a string of them, which sure doesn’t sound like true love!
Re: the mid range thinking they “love” others and the “fuel getting stale”.
This discussion just tripped something that Piano boy told me once.
I asked him once “Do you love (IPPS’ Name)?”
Him: “Yes. I love her. So much. But something is missing….”
😐
Kensey, wissh, windstorm and NarcAngel,
This thread about the line “looking for my last true love” made me ponder a little too hard about the real meaning behind the words. I think I nearly burst a blood vessel in the logical thinking part of my brain! lol
So, let me get this straight. While married to you, he’s on “numerous” dating sites looking for his “last” true love…? I think I can hear my logical brain whirring away again trying to figure out how these human lying machines actually think.
My interpretation would be that he’s casting out a net to “catch” a number of potential women partners who also want “true love” while making himself look like he knows what “true love” means. The addition of the word “last” makes it sound like he’s not on the prowl, but instead, he’s looking for something real and enduring, because he wants to stop searching. But, it’s confusing, because by saying “last”, it implies there have been a string of “true loves” already, which sounds suspicious and unrealistic.
I’m sorry you were involved with this person Kensey, and I’m glad he’s now your ex. You don’t need that in your life. You deserve freedom from all the lies. The bottom line is he has no idea what love actually is.
Wissh,
My mid-range sister told me when I asked her why she didn’t get married that she just never met the right one. She fell in love so many times but there was always something wrong with them that she discovered. My lesser mom said that she just never fell in love. But she always felt grateful to my dad for sending us money so she said maybe that is love already. She thought that maybe being grateful is already love.
Hi, I’m Valk. It’s been 6 weeks since my last contact hit. My hobbies include thinking about my NX, obsessively reading this blog and listening to my best friend threatening to remove my NX’s private parts with a knife.
I’ll be in the corner eating stale donuts and trying not to text, call or fantasize about my NX.
*awkwardly waves to everyone*
I hadn’t read this post before but it’s something that i’ve thought about , when trying to figure out why empaths or whatever , attach to narcissists . They are in some ways as fake as the narcissist , they pretend to be ok with things that they are not ok with, all the time thinking they can and will change this person. So they don’t really know who they are either , they are playing a role to an extent to please the narcissist , to avoid being abandoned , isn’t that kind of what the narcissist is doing. It’s also grandiose to believe that you are the one that’s different and special and have the power to change someone. Trying to change someone could be seen as manipulating. Also in some cases victims listen to the narcissist talking in a very derogatory way about exes or other women, wives etc and see the cheating as they may be participating in the infidelity, is this really an empathic individual , i’m not so sure empath of any catergory fully explains these dynamics.
Lisa
I understand exactly what you mean. I have raised those points previously and refer to it as the ego of the empath. I have taken a considerable amount of flak for suggesting it but let’s hope it was just because it was me who raised it…now put on this helmet and…wait……what’s that?……………
INCOMING!!! Get down!
Hi NarcAngel and Wissh, i’ve questioned if i’m a narcissist through this process , i’ve asked HG, every time i’ve consulted with him ha ha , he’s says i’m not . I really do know that I am not , however just to say we are empaths, i think it’s to easy to say that , as if we are such good people and don’t empaths love to play the victim when in actual fact we do have choices ( similar again to narcs ) These codependants that are enablers of narcissists in my opinion, even scapegoating their own children, behave like covert narcs. I know they say , 2 sides of the same coin. I’ve found it very useful to find all of this information, but healthier individuals don’t need a label or to spend all this time trying to prove if someone really does have NPD as fascinating as it is , they just think unsuitable boyfriend , partner , husband and are completely turned off, end of story. Now that i’m finally out of the emotional sea as HG puts it and narc free, my main goal is to keep working on my own boundaries because i realise now that i’ve never been very good at that and try to be narc vigilant. Whilst continuing to question HG on here 😜 I no longer have any inclination or wish to change someone either, or to point out to a grown adult man what is and isn’t appropriate behaviour narc or not it’s irrelevant .
Lisa and NarcAngel,
You both raise some really interesting points. The dynamics are sometimes confusing and not that easy to understand or even recognise.
After trying to make more sense of it all in my own case, I’ve come to see a few things more clearly.
Firstly, empaths have an overall more positive reputation in general because they’re more honest and well-meaning and they care about the well-being of the other party. The narcissist has the sinister reputation because they lie, use underhanded tactics and are also sadistic. So, there is automatically, a kind of angel/devil kind of overall perception.
If you put aside this good/bad perception or moral judgement though, and just suspend all judgement regarding blame or fault, and try to look at the dynamic more objectively, I believe the empath uses projection just like the narcissist does.
For example, before I became aware of narcissism, if I was with a narcissist, I would see or sense that I wanted more emotional connection with them and I would then try to “fix” or manipulate, or try harder, or however you want to describe it, because I gave them the treatment or advice or mood that I actually (unconsciously) wanted them to give to me. I tried to “love” them more in an attempt to somehow make them see and recognise that love and then reciprocate my love back to me. It was an attempt to try and get what I needed or wanted from them.
I can see how and why NarcAngel refers to this as the ego of the empath. I don’t see it as “ego” though. I don’t think it’s done consciously in an attempt to selfishly feed the ego. I think it’s done as a natural and instinctive behaviour because it feels familiar and “normal”.
If I go right back to when I was a small child, I did the same thing – try harder to achieve love – with my parents and family. I would gauge my mother’s mood or behaviour and react to her in a hypersensitive way in order to “try” to achieve a mutually beneficial and equally loving engagement with her. This was instinctive. It wasn’t thought out or cognitively strategic. It was automatic and subconscious. I was projecting my own needs in the way I was engaging with her. Yes, from the outside, it looked like manipulation, but from my perspective, I was doing what I thought was necessary and normal in order to get her love and to have a good, or happy or peaceful relationship.
I hope this makes sense.
Hi WiserNow, it does make sense and it’s not coming from a place of intentional manipulation like the narcissist (although you could argue, it’s the same for unaware narcs that act in instinct) however they don’t have the remorse if they inflict hurt or ever learn from it. So of course it’s different . Your comments are very helpful thank you and i think i did this with my mother, so you don’t understand your own needs they get lost somewhere.
Hi Lisa,
Yes, your own needs (and your own self) become lost and secondary. It actually backfires on you if you try to assert your own needs because the narc will only ever put their own needs first, unless there’s something in it for them.
I think I grew up being conditioned to have this kind of mindset, although I rebelled later on. Still, it caused me to be a people-pleaser and to be hypervigilant about the other person’s needs before my own. If you’re not fully aware that the narc is a narc and all that that involves, you think there’s a way to tap into their “loving” side and you tend to keep following the same ingrained patterns.
I’m now trying to undo that conditioning and it’s only now that I’m more conscious of my own needs and my own ego.
Thank you for your comments too.
Wisernow
I agree that the empath doesn’t always do it consciously.
Ha ha NarcAngel, that made me burst out with a chuckle! lol
Don’t worry, I for one am not on the warpath anymore, so there’s no need for a helmet and you don’t have to get down. There are no more attacks coming from my direction 🙂
Wisernow
Haha. That was not directed at you. It’s usually newer people who have not been exposed to my…ahem…particular brand of charm. I dont consider either of us on any warpath. Difference of opinion was all and now aired. #bloglife
Thank you NarcAngel. I agree with you about it being a difference of opinion. I’m glad we aired it. Greater communication – even though it can sometimes be conflicting – can lead to better communication, as long as we stay open to other perspectives (and other brands of charm! :-D) and think logically.
You are correct it’s not always a conscious thing but it is how we derive our self worth. We feel good and worthy when we’ve fixed something
Lori,
Your comment about self worth is interesting. When you say…
“We feel good and worthy when we’ve fixed something”, I can partially relate to this and on the other hand, it makes me really question whether or not I feel good or worthy when I feel a need to “fix” something.
Sometimes it does make me feel good or worthy, because I can see that the overall situation or relationship will be better, or some potential problem will be avoided and life in general will progress more smoothly. It’s like that oasis in the desert (the reminders of the golden period perhaps) has become a little more real or less distant.
More often than not though, I don’t feel good or worthy. I feel burdened and anxious. I feel dread and despondency. I feel like I need to overcome yet another obstacle that other people somehow don’t need to overcome. I feel obligation and responsibility that is sometimes overwhelming and often feels unfair.
However, I also feel unable to change this. I feel powerless and I don’t know how to access my own power. It feels as though if I try to assert my own needs, the house of cards will just fall apart, so it’s better if I try to maintain peace instead and “go with the flow”. Sudden change is not going to improve anything. Or at least, that’s what I believe.
I’ve been trying to change this state of play, but it doesn’t change quickly. Any change in established external patterns as well as my own established mindset are gradual, however, I’m conscious of it and trying to work on it.
I think this difference could be where the different schools of empath come in. I can relate to what you say about being a codependent and it fits my behaviour in some ways, however, I also feel there are differences in how you describe your feelings and how I see mine.
NA, ego of the empath is the perfect way to describe it . I while back I realized I wasn’t trying to fix him, I was trying to fix my ego. I knew this because I didn’t even like him anymore. I was just trying to manipulate the situation so that I could go on living without the wounds.
Wiser Now
Have you. been formally diagnosed? If not , that’s step 1. From what you describe yes those sound like Codep behaviors and feelings but that doesn’t mean you are. You might just have tendencies and fall on the lower end of the spectrum. Read read read and if I could make one suggestion start trying to erect a boundary in just one area of your life start small. Try saying no instead of yes. These are places to start but I would say this do not diagnose yourself let a professional help you if you can afford it in the meantime read as much you can to see if you identify with it. As I’ve said, condeps can look very different. Some have strong personalities and seem quite in control of many aspects of there life but then there’s that one thing or person that they feel powerless wittb.
Codeendemcy isn’t a hopeless diagnosis like Narcissism.
Wiser Now
I believe Codeps come in different flavors just like Narcs do. You may be more of the door mat variety being your primary characteristics. I would say I likely exhibit more of the SE behaviors but I can also exhibit door mat behaviours in certain relationships. Sometimes I can feel powerless as in when I’m with a Narc and others I can feel quite powerful knowing that in the best at something like my job where people need anc are dependent upon me. I can be the controller or the controlled but it always comes down to control.
That may explain why what you feel is different from me but I’m certain we likely suffer from the broader effects of Cidependency if its true that you are Codepebdent
Lori,
Thank you for your comments. To answer your question, no, I haven’t been formally diagnosed. I have done a lot of reading and research on my own though. To be honest, I don’t feel a great need now to get an official diagnosis or assistance through therapy. I feel more comfortable with reading and discovering new aspects about myself through study of a number of different subjects.
After reading about codependency, I can see some aspects in myself, but then again, I think there are many things I don’t relate to, so I don’t think I’m codependent. I enjoy solitude and being alone. It sounds strange, but I feel uncomfortable (almost claustrophobic) when I am with other people on a constant basis. I don’t like depending on people and I enjoy being independent mostly.
I agree with you when you say that these aspects always come down to control in some way. Control and power. I think that’s why I enjoy the freedom of solitude. I feel totally free of anyone else’s control.
Also, I relate very much to the “supernova” event that HG describes. When dealing with my mother’s self-absorbed and selfish controlling ways in the past, I would often go into supernova mode. It would happen with other people too, not just my mother. It would happen after patiently putting up with someone’s selfish and inconsiderate, entitled behaviour for long lengths of time, and then when my patience ran out, it was like an uncontrollable explosion of anger and I pushed back. Since knowing the truth of narcissism, this doesn’t happen anymore, or only rarely.
Yes, there are certain similarities because it’s a spectrum and people are all unique, but I don’t identify with being codependent.
Lisa
More and more as I’m learning here I’ve wondered if I’m a narc, but as I feel such a range of emotions I usually decide I’m not, that I’m an empath. I’m not yet as clear on the various flavors of empires as I’m becoming on narcs, but I’ll get to it. Your second and third sentences do fit me enough to make me wince.
lisa, I later found out my narc was married. I still talked to him after to find out why he hid things and lied.
He said his wife didn’t cook or clean correctly. That she would watch YouTube and not get enough done. He said she wasn’t respectful to his mother. He commented on their sex life (she was a virgin).
After he was done, I asked him, “and this makes it ok to cheat on her? You lie and cheat and that is ok way to treat your wife? You think you are a good partner? How can you even comment on the things she does or doesn’t do when you are manipulating, lying and cheating on her?”
He said, no it doesn’t make it right. I am still amazed/shocked at his utter lack of personal accountability. He always has a reason for his behavior, even when it is a poorly veiled excuse to do whatever he wants. Everything is about him and how he is being hurt. I don’t know if he even thinks about how badly his behavior hurts other people. I’ve asked him before. He says he does realize it. But does he care that it hurts?
Hi Valkyrie, yes some narcissist do admit to do wrong or bad things but it’s still never their fault , it’s always backed up with some bullshit about why they did it. There’s always a BUT it wasn’t their fault. HG talks about the BUT with Mid Rangers I believe.
Correct.
Since I am a diagnosed Codepebdent I speak from and thru that lense. I can tell you what you describe are very Codepebdent behaviors. Codependents are constantly trying to change or “fix”another and believe me we believe we can. Videos can also have very narcissistic type behaviors anc we will often resent that we “have to save everyone from themselves” I have always said if you were with one of these people for awhile or you have had more than one you are likely not entirely emotionally healthy and likely struggle with boundary and Codependency issues and or full blown Codependency
People here often don’t like me saying this because they associate it with the Doormat persona which is not always the case. A lot here in fact a huge number will classify themselves as Super Empath I think because they have been neat down by a Narc and well thinking the Narc chose them because they are super strong tends to a bruised ego.
Hi Lori, strangely i’m just watching an interview on youtube that HG did, the lady interviewer just asked HG about codependants that she knows that do not show empathy , she’s on the same kind of subject as me. HG explains that if they are true codependants they will have empathy and he suggests that maybe some of them are actually narcissists and are good at fake empathy when required .
It’s a tricky one. My interest in this is trying to work out where i fit into this spectrum but also in particular my mother who i would say is 100 percent codependent on my narc stepfather , but in her codependency on him she has behaved narcisistically for many many years to many people around them , family , friends , me, in order to keep the narcissist happy, but although she will portray this as almost intimidation by the narcissist , that she just goes along with stuff to keep the peace , she likes what the narcissist gives her , but knows that morally his behaviour is inappropriate so she fakes her opinions on him to other people , pretending to have empathy and morals and emotional intelligence when in actual fact she’s as shallow and as self serving as the narcissist , even at the cost of her own children’s well being . Therefore i say , is my mother a type of narcissist masked as an empath or are codependants some kind of covert narcs . Not a popular comment i understand that but there’s a similarity.
Some videos can look very much like Narcs. I have many narcissistic traits I can look like the Codep Doormat or I can also look like a narcissistic bitch it all depends on who I am dealing with the relationship and the situation at hand. I do kniow u can exert control over others but I am powerless against a Narc. I totally identify wiitn the boredom that comes in a relationship after awhile. I have many elements of both these disorders. After reading here I worry I’ve bern misdiagnosed but I have to go with what a professional actually 2 told me which was moderate Codependency moving toward severe if I didn’t start dealing with it
With all due respect, I. am a Super Empath and yes, proud of it. Yes, I got beaten down by an aware Greater, who played me like a fiddle. But I was never glad he chose me. I regret the day I met him. Speaking for myself, being Super doesn’t come without it’s own unique set of problems. I think we are the most like a narc. Throw Magnet into the mix and constantly feel like a rainbow because everywhere you go people gawk at you or speak. Now that may sound like bragadocio but I am complaining as my entire life I wanted just to be NORMAL.
I agree with Lori and I very much appreciate lisa’s input.
I believe that had I not had narcissistic tendencies, I wouldn’t have stuck with the narc or I would have actually paid heed to the red flags. Alas, I loved the concept of being ‘different’ and ‘more’ than other people with and through him. I suppose it spoke to my childhood trauma of not fitting in, not being allowed to shape my own identity and express my own emotions. It left me feeling profoundly different, apart from others, and yes, at times better than them.
Once the coping mechanism of self- and other-analysis becomes your way of life, you easily start feeling above others simply by understanding people’s inner motivations and by being able to control your own emotions and behaviours better than other people. Knowledge + control = power.
MORNING SUN
BAM!!! YES!!!! This is me! You nailed it! I can read most people like a book even the Narc sometimes. I can sense how they are feeling and adjust my behavior accordingly. The Narc would get somewhat freaked out when I would tap into how he was feeling and why he did something and you could tell it almost unnerved him.Even my old narx boss commented on this and yes I did feel a bit Narcissistic about my ability to do this and being better at it than anyone else
Are you a diagnosed Codepebdent? Am I understanding you to say you experience a lot of narcissistic traits?
You must be a Codepebdent cause you nailed this
Morning Sun
I see so many misconceptions about Codependency and what it is here. I’ve seen everything from Codepebdency isn’t about control (which it absolutely is) to Codepebdents are wimpy little door mats which is simply not true. They can be but I think probably most are not.
Lori,
I hope you are not referring to my comment when you say some people say codependency is not about control. I think I made it clear I am not saying it is not about control. Codependents typically grow in chaotic environments, hence their need to search control. I have never denied that.
My point is, I repeat, control is not the core of codependency, it is a lost self that is.
You did not answer to my comment (and I wonder why) and that is fine. I agree to disagree with you. But do not change my words, if you are referring indirectly to what I said.
Pixie
You may very well be however The majority of the people here think they are Super Empaths which would statistically be very unlikely. Statistically speaking, you are far more likely to find Codepebdents on a narcissistic abuse page. With that said, I personally believe the SE is merely another flavor of Codependent. I have many of those traits often wondering if I am the Narcissist. I can exhibit many attention seeking behaviors. I’m extremely out going and I can start and hold a conversation with just about anyone. If I’m confident in the subject matter, I will often dominate the conversation. That all being said, I am a Codepebdent. Mental health professionals do not use terms or classifications of Super Empath. I have been diagnosed as moderate on the spectrum.
All the people that classify themselves as Super Empaths here could not be. Statistically speaking that would be highly unusual that a narcissistic abuse page would be full of a bunch of Super Empaths and few Codepebdents.
Lisa. I had a hard time following some of that but parts of it also made lots of sense to me. Particularly about abandonment, being part of his infidelity and feeling like I can change him, to name a few points.
Well yes and no it’s a major red flag for me if someone does this to soon it’s an illusion, being raised in a narcissistic family I got very good at reading the tells I only have really one weakness to narcissists it’s what I look for to decipher the difference between them and a normal person but if for some reason they do manage to fool me my feelings take over and when I realise I am dealing with another narcissist the heartache is devastating it can take years for me to get back to myself but I always do
This is incorrect typical backwards thinking and projection of narcissists. People who show genuine love are not mirroring in any sense of the word. The only reasons why people, other than other narcissists, attempt to love a narcissist is because they don’t know what they are and don’t realize they are dead creatures that are incapable of love, only of causing misery. And most of them aren’t even very good at that!!! A narcissist has nothing to offer people who understand them and who are wise in heart and mind. Someone who sees their pompous facade for what it is, understands that wealth can’t buy true happiness and sees through their notions of perceived status would not fall prey to the “trying to love the hate out of them” trap. They realize that all the narcissists has to offer in exchange for real love is hatred of the person unwise enough to try and love them. Narcissists would like for real love and the desire to see others happy to only be a mirror image because then, love and happiness would be as unreal as their constructed facade. This is not the case, no matter how much they wish it to be so…
Im sorry it depends on but I don’t think that’s accurate I show genuine love and have solid understanding of Narcissism anc Codependency and. I have fallen victim to 2
Do you feel your Codepebdent boyfriend wasn’t doing this? He was with a Narcissist for 15 years. One of two things he’s either the Narc posing as a victim Codep or he’s got some serious codependency and dysfunctional behavioral issues. There is no way you come out of a 15 year Narc relationship without a whole lot of damage. I know what 5 years did. I cannot imagine 15
I disagree with a lot of what you write, It depends, but that’s due to my somewhat instrumental outlook.
I think narcissists do have something to offer to society, however society fails to maintain strong enough ethical standards that would ensure social and monetary success only when combined with a certain level of ethical behaviour. Thus narcissists are free to flourish despite – or worse, because – their ruthless behaviour.
Ethics don’t require empathy per se – they require a firm grasp of acceptable vs. unacceptable behaviour.
On a personal level, I have gained a lot from my experiences with narcissists. The N-ex let me experience perfect love. HG helped me understand my experience and its tremendous value.
I do understand your sentiment regarding their inhumanity (non-humanness?). It can seem like there’s some Other living in a human shell and mimicking human behaviour. Very creepy, especially when one is unprepared and/or vulnerable.
I was originally not going to reply to this as it triggered me (I hate the word trigger but nonetheless that is what has happened) but hey I have been replying to nearly everything and venting my brain out to it’s utter capacity this weekend, so really what is one more reply?
Piano boy LOVES commenting on how he feels I am obsessed with him. I cannot really tell anymore whether he enjoys such a thing or whether he hates it. Or both. Or one or the other depending on his “contrary” mood. He will chastise me about “being obsessed with him” but will do so in the most polite way while reassuring me that “it is okay” and he “isn’t mad” and he “needs a break” but is not “abandoning” me.
Anyway what triggered me in this article was the opening line of “I want to merge with you and become one”.
Three visits ago with him (before we ended up being intimate) we were cuddling/hugging each other while talking. He made a comment and then I replied in my typical wiseass joking manner and we both burst out laughing. He then said to me, “I cannot behave myself anymore, I need to be connected to you”. (emphasis on the word “need”). And then….well yeah.
So yeah my irritation is as soon as I read the line in the first paragraph about him wanting to “merging and becoming one” and then the end of the 2nd paragraph telling me that I am “obsessed”.
HG, I appreciate what you do here by sharing all of this with us but your words really have a way of getting to me lately. I do not know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. AlI I know is that for a brief moment I felt my own “fury” and I wanted to hurl something at the wall reading that. But instead I just ended up crying myself into aching exhaustion while wishing I was dead.
Dear Fots, I feel for you so much. But please go on now, be angry, cry, mourn, but never ever contact him again. Block everything. And really, you need to stop trying to make sense of everything. That is what narcs do, fuck with your brain, so you just can’t stop thinking about them. Say to yourself: NOTHING narcs say or do ever makes sense. If you stop questioning, stop looking, stop thinking (distract) then honestly you will feel better real soon. There will always be thoughts lingering, it is a matter of wanting this to stop. And if you really want al this mindfuck and pain to stop, then stop it. You have to do it yourself and you can do it. It’s the loneliness that keeps you going back. You said so yourself: “this is better than nothing”. No, it’s not. I know it, because I thought the same. It’s really not better at all. As for romance, yes I’m lonely, but I still have friends and sisters to hang out with. Life is a bit boring, but far better than all the confusion and pain when dealing with the narc.
Good luck Fots, I wish you well. Don’t wish you were dead. Life does get better, trust me. xxx
😟 Thank you, Blank.
Very nice encouragement Blank. Yes, loneliness and boredom suck but we can control that. My friends, my cousin, my co-workers, don’t play mind games and are supportive. Not dealing with daily rejection has its advantages.
Clarece, exactly!
Saturdaynight after visiting my parents I thought about how different you can feel after having spent time with narcs in comparison with normals. Any time I go out with friends I go to bed feeling happy, alive and content. Any time I visit Matrinarch or deal with N-ex husband I am frustrated, sad and/or miserable. I tell myself to let go and not care about what they said or did, but my mind is always doing overtime after having dealt with them.
“Not dealing with daily rejection has its advantages.”
Besides rejection you can add: manipulation, criticism, envy, silent treatments, blameshifting, gaslighting and the whole lot.
Clarece, it has nothing but advantages, being lonely and bored 🙂 xx
Fuel on a shelf, loyalty, love, devotion toward someone you care about is not an obsession. That is just a word they use in order to chip away at our self esteem. You have to separate yourself from these words and see that you are just a girl that cares about a man. Unfortunately the man you speak of is a narcissist and cannot return that affection.
I use to get triggered by things that HG writes too. It’s painful to hear when at the moment your narc said these things to you it probably made you feel really good. It’s good that you can identify what is happening to you and when you read these things it will make you more aware so you can protect yourself.
He will use words like obsession in a affectionate way then turn the same word on you to make you feel as if you are the one with the problem. It’s sad but now you know.
Mercy, I agree. Well put. It sucks to know the things that made you feel good were done to manipulate and not out of genuine caring or liking.
But it is good to see the truth so you can gain clarity.
Valkyrie, yes it’s good to see the truth but don’t you just want to lash out and say “Fuck you, you lying POS”. Why can’t the truth just be the words they said? Why the hell do we have to be the responsible ones?? I’d like to shove the truth down his throat and watch him choke on it.
Ok I’m better now. I’m calm. Yes it’s good to see the truth.
Hi Mercy,
I somehow lost track of your comment the other day cheering me on for going 4 months of NC with JN. I really appreciated it. I meant to reply and couldn’t find the thread it was on.
Compared to how much JN was hoovering the first 2 years I was on the blog, I’ve really gone much longer than 4 months with periods of NC too but had a few relapses here and there. Any conversation of length happened this past February into the first week in March. I’m able to keep the emotion about him in check. But it’s still way too soon to ever run into him. I think I would want to tear him limb by limb. But I definitely have no desire to reach out or have any kind of communication with him. Even my Bff checks in and asks me every few weeks if I’ve caved and creeped on any social media and I haven’t. I don’t want to see anything painful anymore, or drudge it up.
Clarece,
It’s easy to lose track of comments here. I go from the app to email and it seems the notifications are a little overwhelming. I’ve jumped on and off this site for a few years so I have seen your comments from the past. You are always kind and helpful in your comments.
Like you I have battled back and forth with NC and checking up on social media with my ex narc for years. It was just September that I made a commitment to myself to be done. It’s time! I’ve also committed to stay here on this site so that I don’t waver. I feel peace among the support from the readers of this site and I need the constant reminder from HGs writings so that I never forget that there is no future in going back.
I relate to you statement that you could tear him limb by limb. I find that anger is my strongest emotion right now. I don’t think I will ever let that go although it’s not as bad as it was. It’s good you are staying away from his social media. That is one of the hardest things for me but like you it just drudges up the pain. We can’t change what they are doing so it’s just better not to know.
Thanks so much for your response. Take care.
You’ll hit that 4 month mark, then double it, then triple it…then we’ll all be Tudorites Alum.
Clarece,
I wanted to also congratulate you and say 4 months is awesome. One more month and you will have surpassed my prior record (I was able to make it only to 5 months sadly).
I’ll feel like I have something to celebrate to get thru this holiday season with absolutely no contact whatsoever. If I didn’t hear from JN for Christmas, then I would for New Year’s or like this year, on my daughter’s bday one week after NY’s. Like there’s a chance. lollll He’s in the golden period and first holiday with the new girlfriend. It will be a Holiday Spectacular for her.
I was just thinking; Is there a way to design, and then add to gravatar, or user names, something like a NC badge or token, or something like that, similar to AA, NA, or GA?
If you see it every time you log in or post, it may keep you on track, in that it reminds you you’ve gone this long No Contact, and that you have support to go longer NC.
Although HG runs this priceless website quite well, almost 12 million hits, AND I just realized that he has google translate on the website, so this might be a reader project.(Or he could tell his minions “go fetch” if he finds it a worthy idea?)
In the meantime, maybe your talisman could be “upgraded” for every milestone you decide on, to remind you that you can do NC like a boss.
I’ve also been curious of what others have chosen for talismans.
I have 6 magnetized stones of rainbow hematite that stick together, and I kind of roll them against each other when I need a reminder.
As I was a hobby jeweler/lapidarist, he was always telling me and others that I have rocks in my head. It reminds me he is a pile of ash!
Perse
Perse
You can use any photo in your phone as your gravatar. Just make a page sized symbol of what you want, take a pic and upload it to WordPress.
Do you feel you are obsessed ?
Hi Lori,
I think “infatuation” is more of an accurate (yet nicer) operative term IF I had to choose a word to describe a similar feeling. The word “obsessed” sounds so demeaning to me. At least it has come to sound that way in the way he uses it against me. But he is so polite about it too. It is okay and he is never “mad”. Oh and he is “not abandoning me”.
I feel like throwing something at the wall again. And crying myself to sleep. But since you asked a question of me, I answered.
I was also called ‘obsessed’, yet in later years I have come to realize the correct word was ‘addiction.’ I was addicted to needing his validation b/c I had come to believe I was worthless without it. I was also repeatedly reassured ‘he will not abandon me’, and ‘of course I still care. I’m still here, aren’t I?’
Hi Bibi….
Oh good grief he actually said that to you too? Piano boy also used the word “addiction” with me too. He used the 2 interchangeably but used the term “obsessed” way more.
There is that Narc book again!
He further stated the constant need for “balance” with me. “Proper balance”. He said that this (the proper balance) was needed in regard to his “guilt and shame” of engaging with me and my “obsession and addiction” of my feelings for him.
Nice combo huh?
Oh and it was usually my fault too.
And also….WTF is it with the use of the word “abandon” or the phrase “I am not going to abandon you”. I have come to notice that this is said before the silence happens! So is it basically saying “I am sick and tired of you and I want space so leave me alone BUT no worries….I will not abandon you!”
Well it sure FEELS like that with the silence. Narc opposite day is now telling me that when I hear that it most certainly means……here comes your abandonment!
FOTS
I’ve often noticed people (narcs and normals) deny that they are going to do something hurtful or assure you that they will be there for you when you need them, when it’s fairly obvious they are really going to do the opposite. I can often feel that it’s important to them that the person/people listening think well of them. That’s the most important thing – that everyone think well of them.
Obviously what they said is a lie, but often I get the feeling that they’re lying to themselves, too. Like they really want to believe they are a good person, a caring person, someone you can rely on. They seem to be trying to fool themselves as much as fool the listeners.
Then afterwards, when they didn’t follow thru with what they assured you they would do, they seem to think that means nothing. They feel this was no bad reflection on them, because their intention to do what they promised was pure at the time. It’s not their fault that something else came up. They believe they would have followed thru with what they promised, if everything had stayed exactly the same as it was when they promised. But things changed. It’s not their fault.
You are right Windstorm. It is never their fault. It always my fault (per him anyway). He says he is not abandoning me, yet he does. He truly believes he is a good person. And that he feels shame and guilt, etc.
Yes, FOTS, but always remember those are LIES he’s telling to you and to himself. Including that he feels shame and guilt – that’s a lie, too.
Fuel:
Yes they like to dangle the prospect in front of you but then call you obsessed or addicted when you respond as they hope.
I was addicted to him–his validation, anyway. Before I knew what he was, I had absorbed his notion that I was ‘obsessed’ and needed help ‘to overcome these obsessions’, because I absorbed everything he said as truth.
Very dangerous, mind you. Miss Julie suicides at the end of Strindberg’s play as result of not being able to fight off her narcissist servant’s words. She just absorbs them.
Not long after we went NC I saw this terrible doc. on Netflix about 2 obsessive stalkers who obsessed over that singer in the ’80s named Tiffany. On one hand, it was a sick doc. to waste on these 2 losers, but on the other it showed a psychological compulsion that happens with some who develop obsession for celebrities.
One of the stalkers said, ‘I love her so much that I even love her bones.’
That creeped me out and I stopped watching, and cried, believing I was crazy like this psychopath. I kept asking myself, ‘How did I get like this?’
The difference was, however, this guy never met Tiffany nor ever engaged with her, so she did nothing to cause this obsession.
My narcissist engaged in pathological lies, deceit, played the victim, gaslit, silent treatments, evasiveness, word salad and on and on. Always secretive from the start.
I kept trying to make the friendship work, trying to prove that he could trust me, etc.
It’s embarrassing–I was very embarrassed because I had alwyas prided myself on having an ego and not giving a shit, yet here I was groveling.
What had happened to me? Yet when I began to read the stories of those affected by narcs I got this amazing sense of clarity.
You mean it’s not all me? I am not perfect, mind you, but this does not happen on its own.
Then it became about fixing that hurt within–why did I not think I was worthy of better treatment? Why did I not put an end to it upon learning he lied about his name 2 yrs in? Why did I give him all these free passes?
I used to ask ‘why, why, why?’ over and over with regards to him. Then I had to switch the ‘why’ focus onto me because only I could answer them.
“I was addicted to him–his validation, anyway. Before I knew what he was, I had absorbed his notion that I was ‘obsessed’ and needed help ‘to overcome these obsessions’, because I absorbed everything he said as truth.”
I often heard similar sentiments from him of how I needed help as well. Said in the most polite manner of course!
FOTS, do you see that you are putting a lot of importance on words he is saying. Because of these words, you feel as if you are not good enough. He is manipulating your thoughts about yourself and it’s destructive to you. Stop focusing on words like obsession and addiction and start focusing on the word acceptance. Accept that what he is saying is not true. Accept that he is a narcissist and he will not change. Accept that you will never stop crying yourself to sleep if you continue to value him more than yourself. Accept that you are DLS and that’s all you’ll ever be if you stay. Accept that he will move on to someone else if you leave and it is going to hurt like hell. Know that the hurt from moving on won’t be forever and you will survive it. You are worthy, you are valued, you are important. Believe those words. Those words are not lies and are not meant to manipulate you. Accept them as the truth.
Well I’ll say this in order to get beyond this you have to get real about it no sometimes that requires accepting uncomfortable things like obsession. The fact is they do create obsession. Imo you are obsessed and we are all obsessed to a certain extent. I think if you start to make this more about you and less about him, I bet you will start to improve. Here’s the thing logically you know this will never workout and that you are continuing to engage with someone who is harming you. Instead of focusing on what he meant when he said something or why he did something flip it around and ask why are you doing something. I think if you start doing that you will improve. In not saying poof all the pain and addiction will be gone but slowly you will begin to cope better
Fots, it is infuriating to know it was fake. It’s like hearing someone say all the things you want to hear, then say just kidding.
They are sexy and manipulative, but do they really care about us? I hope you are feeling better. I hope it helps to know you are not the only one going through this and that we care.
It is an addictive process, but you can get out. Stay strong and focus on you. Reading all the articles and messages here helps me when I want to contact him. It is a reminder of what he feels, rather than listening to his honey coated words. It is hard, but the truth will help you get out.
Hugs and love
❤Valk
I think its more a “ get “ and return pattern . If I receive so much love I can’t help but to genuinely return it back to you . It just stops circulating and turns one – sided .
btw I’m not sure if perception of love is normal or healthy either . I can feel it very strong for everyone not easy to dose it . Close to the extreme to . But I do adopt some narcisstic traits more lately. I think Iam just trying to defend myself wrongly .
DoForLuv,
‘But I do adopt some narcisstic traits more lately. I think Iam just trying to defend myself wrongly .’
Everyone needs to have some narcissistic traits, in that humans need to put themselves first, in order to survive, and to be in the best possible shape to contribute to community, which also ensures survival.
The only way defending yourself is ‘doing it wrongly’ is if what you are doing fails to defend you.
You may have to adjust you empathy to telling yourself that your empathy is reserved for those who are non toxic. That’s sometimes hard to wrap your mind around when your default is love everybody.
@Perephone In Sunlight
You’are so right! Thank you so much for the advice
Hahahahah! Love this!
Wow I would never say all that. I told him to heal himself. Probably why I got the silent treatment so much. Never bothered to try and contact him in the silent times. I let him get on with it. I didn’t give him what he wanted after the first few silent treatments. I knew what he was at. I played him back with his own crap. He still kept coming back trying all different stories tricks and avenues. I suppose I mirrored in that way. But I’d never beg for love from someone, especially if their love is shallow and conditional. My narc came out and stated, I miss your energy, your fire, I feel empty, I feel like I’m nothing and a void. How do I get your energy back. I need it. I told him, open your heart. Of course he couldn’t because he didn’t have one, so he bought me presents and so on. Lol.
wait, I need to call my old IPSS who then became my IPPS- who then was my IPSS- then my dirty little secret– but I still need to call her!!! Hold on!!!!
Have me the chills.
Time to fire up the woodburner then!