Surely That’s The End, Yes?
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
60 thoughts on “Surely That’s The End, Yes?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Former Fan-Club-Memeber then “Secret” IPSS then Shelved IPSS here.
A year ago I went completely no contact (without warning.) I have done my best to become a F.R.E.E. since then.
However, one year out and he STILL emails me about once month. Everything from fake cancer-scares, to suicide threats, to fake apologies, all of it. I have never responded. (I actually blocked his emails but they still go to my spam folder unfortunately which I sometimes check.)
Now he has started trying to reach me via fake social media accounts and new email accounts . (I block both when they happen)
He has a huge fan-club and plenty of supply from current & former IPPSs & IPSSs. So I don’t understand why he continues to try to extract supply from me? Is there anything else I can do? Why won’t he leave me alone? Will this really continue forever?
He continues to do so because there are Hoover triggers and the Hoover execution Criteria are met. What can you do? Bolster your no contact. Why won’t he leave you alone – because you in his mind belong to him and because there are HTs and the HEC are being met. It will continue for as long as there are HTs and the HEC are met. I recommend you consult with me so I can give you far more detail and assist you with your no contact regime to reduce the likelihood of being hoovered.
Is it likely he would keep gifts (even though he’s married to his current victim). If so, there isn’t anything I can do about the sixth sphere? On top of working in the same industry and potentially crossing paths? HG, can I consult you? I want to know what he is.
You can, if you wish to know what he is, please organise a Narc Detector Consultation.
Unfortunately the largest organ of the N’s body (his skin) is the only Hoover trigger he needs – a kind of self inflicted ever present Hoover trigger:
1. Tattoo of my initials on his arm 😞
2. Tattoo of my first and second names on his hip 😔
3. Tattoo in Chinese characters of Sarah “my princess” on his shoulder 😖
4. Tattoo of my pet name on his foot 🙄
Not much one can do about that as part of a no contact regime?
Tattoos are not me (at all). I never wanted him to get a tattoo, let alone dedicate one to me – he is one piece of work I don’t want to put my name to!
Indeed, that all falls within the sixth sphere but will be a greater incidence of reminder in the sixth sphere than usual – all the more to ensure all methods of contacting you are sealed off.
Yes HG – please let me know when you are having a lull (if ever) and I will try for that consult again. I know your advice will tie a ribbon on this nightmare for me. Maybe a Christmas one?
I will always have availability for consultation
Sarah, do you have any tattoos dedicated to him?
HG, why on earth would a narcissist want to get such a permanent reminder of such a temporary appliance? There’s not enough real estate on even the largest narcissist for the names of all their conquests. Even if they live a short life!
It is part of the seduction, the subject feels special. Remember, the bulk of narcissists operate in the moment and would not be thinking of any consequence down the line. It is therefore noteworthy that I have no tattoos.
You can get tattoos that are meaningful to you. Not names. I thought everybody knew not to get somebody’s name. I’ve been with my SO for 32 years and I would NEVER get his name in ink.
MB
I have lesser narc family members who got girls names tattooed on them. They thought she was “the one.” One cousin had three different women’s names. He would have the old ones blacked out and worked into new designs.
WS, yes I love those shows where they do cover up tattoos. It’s just never a good idea to get a name and definitely not a portrait!!
MB
In my opinion getting a tattoo at all is not a good idea. I’ve seen way too many people regret theirs.
No regurts for me WS!
Ha, ha, MB!
Hi MB,
I have no interest in tattoos nor do I have one. I am very straight-laced and they don’t appeal to me. N was a gifted child with the world at his feet. Unfortunately though his father is a Psychopath and he has a diagnosis of NPD with Psychopathic traits. He is positively charming, very calculated and a rogue until the end.
N pursued me for 7 years prior to our relationship. I agree with HG, the tattoos were all part of the seduction as I was the only girl who ever refused a relationship with him. He has never employed the same tactic with another source as it would ruin the triangulation.
We had an IPPS relationship for 4-5 years which I escaped due to his infidelity.
Unfortunately I am not special as he would’ve had me think. I am a life long tool of triangulation yielded to make others feel they need to compete and like they are not good enough. N had to work very hard to embed me, however once caught I am the first to admit I was a true oil well and loyal to the end. I am not the story he has created of me, however I understand why I have been chosen. N knows I will not get involved with other sources or perpetuate contact to smear him etc. I am true to myself which is why I am such a great target to torture others. It is the cross I have to bear.
During 13 years of no contact I had several of his ex girlfriends contact my family to try and get in touch with me, to get answers about their relationship with him. Holding me up to the world as some kind of paragon of virtue disgusts me. I am a scarred appliance just like everyone else, the only difference is I walked away.
Oh Windstorm, you made me laugh!! That is positively ghastly – crossing the old ones out and making room for the new. Ha! Great start to my morning to be chuckling away to myself as I make school lunches.
I think N had a dose of infatuation with me as they do with most but he knows what he is and he would never have believed I was “the one” despite his assertions. He has always described feeling like a lone wolf and realising he is different. He was arrested on the school oval (at his elite Private Boys school) at 13 years old for being involved in a syndicate making counterfeit bank notes. Scandalous!!
I think the dark side of him was there very early on, however I was never privy to even a hint of this, it was very much under wraps. The mask doesn’t slip.
After almost 2 years of complete no contact I’m about to be put to the ultimate test. I’m going to be in a clinical research trial and found out my ex N will be in there with me! We will be locked away from the world (and any new supply he may have) for 16 days.
I escaped and moved out of state 2 yrs ago, he has been blocked by me on all fronts for the last 22 months and I know nothing about his life now so it should be very interesting to see what he does. I will be a sitting duck in the first sphere of influence. Forced into ‘Hoover Time Sphere One!’. Tomorrow morning I go into battle, taking HG Tudor with me! Onward, forward… I’ve got this! 💪🏼
Now Emotional Thinking is pouring honey in my ear… who am I kidding.. I’m so f***ed. 🙄
Jules
Lol. You’re going to be on Big Brother? Good luck with your experience.
Thanks NA.. I’ve avoided him so far today. 15 days to go haha. Have you seen the Netflix show ‘Maniac’? It’s pretty much exactly like that!!
Any advise?
Jules
I’ve not seen the show but googled it. Looks interesting. If you were successful today, do that for 15 more days and ask yourself WWHG say when confronted with a dilemma lol. Keep HG in your head – he is stronger than that pussy from your past and we are all supporting you. Remember that your ex is mere blood and bone – nothing magic. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out and I hope you will share with us after.
NA
NA, “WWHG say”. ❤️ it!!
Can we get WWHGS and narcsite.com on rubber wristbands while we wait on our t-shirts?
MB
I know you are totally busy being a totally awesome loving and insightful mom (specifically) and woman (generally) but you could also do merch for HG’s World Domination Tour 2019.
So what colours are the t-shirts? Black and white, I suppose. Ha ha!
What’s the logo? How do you envisage the wrist bands? The lighting? The music HG comes out on stage to? His outfit? How do you picture it? Give us the benefit of your creativity.
It was nice to see your face last week, however briefly.
Caroline R, I envision a huge venue, standing room only. Lots of energy. I want HG to pick his own theme music. If I must choose, it will be an appropriate James Bond theme. I would have to research to make the best choice. He definitely comes onto the dimly lit stage dressed in all black. Black trench coat, dark glasses and a hat. Mysterious AF! After the cheers of the crowd die down, the light slowly comes up and he takes off his hat and overcoat followed by the glasses as the crowd begins to cheer loudly again at the sight of him. The light comes up more, And then…as he steps up to the microphone, you could hear a pin drop. After a tortuous pause, he says in THAT VOICE…”Hello, I am HG Tudor and you will now…Know The Narcissist.” After his awe-inspiring talk, he invites the crowd to pass around the microphone for a Q & A session that they wish would never end. They fall in love with him the way that we have and our hearts radiate with pride as the world finally gets to see what we have seen all along.
REPORT: I feel that I have achieved success!! After the initial pang, it did subside somewhat and I realized the strength I had gathered the last 2 years was substantial. The lovesick longing wasn’t there anymore, he didn’t even look as hot to me as he used to! (side note, he is 26 years younger than me, yes, I’m a cougar) I just tried to display cold detached strength with a friendly, courteous edge. I never let him catch me alone and the little we did speak I kept to very general subjects. He got kicked out of the study early for breaking the rules, haha…Classic. And when he called out goodbye to me I waved without turning my head. Win.
Thank You my Liege, for Your expert tutelage!!
Great advise NA. I have written WWHGS on the inside of my wristband and it’s helping me stay strong. I would rather make HG proud than fail. I’m not gonna lie, it’s been so hard seeing him and he has been so sweet and happy trying to break into the little circle of friends I have formed here. I miss him.. 😭😭😭 damn it all to hell!!! 😫 But I will not be moved. I’ve come so far. Thank you so much for the support and I will report back here how it goes. 😅🤓
As for the t-shirts, wristbands and world tours… I’m in! I want one of everything! 🖤
Jules good luck!! I’m excited for you. Sorry about your luck with the ex N but you can do this!
HG, I notice that quite a few people have commented on previous posts of this article, saying the narcissist has blocked them on various different things, i also noticed people saying that when they are then unblocked this is a hoover ? is that correct ? I have never seen unblocking as a hoover? I see it as enough time has past that the blocking is no longer needed and everything is just deleted ? I would only see the narcissist messaging as a hoover? thank you
Unblocking is a passive hoover, it is designed to be noticed by you. It will cause your ET to increase and has the potential to cause you to contact us, which may provide fuel, show evidence of control, amount to a further Hoover Trigger and may result in a further hoover, this time of an active variety.
Thank you for explaining that, I have never been blocked from anything , it’s me that has done the blocking and then after a couple of months I unblock and delete , but i’ve always had him recontact so now i realise that you have to block and delete forever which i’ve done this time. I wonder if my unblocking in the past made him think i was trying to contact him in some sort of psychic hoover ha ha
Well weren’t you? I think if we unblock them and we are honest with ourselves it’s cause we want to see if they will contact us. I know I have done that.
Lori, no I wasn’t because it took me a long time to really understand what NPD was and a long time of learning, to know I really was dealing with one because sometimes I would think , maybe he isn’t one. So when he would tell me that he didn’t want a relationship and i wouldn’t hear from him for a couple of weeks , I believed him , I didn’t really fully believe in the forever hoover or that he definitely was a narc, blocking him was so I wouldn’t see things that might be upsetting to me, after say 4 months , i’d start to move on and just unblock and delete everything. The blocking for me was to stop me from constantly checking his social media, which i struggled to do, if i didn’t block. My question to HG was more about why would the narc even know if he’s no longer blocked if they’ve deleted you, in their heads , and other wise occupied , why are they checking , they are not attached like we are during the silent treatments or their new toy to play with.
They alwats check it’s part of their illness. If I’m honest i check too. I have honestly only ever unblocked someone cause I wanted to see if they would notice or had some vested interest otherwise there wouldn’t be any reason or need for me to unblock them. I see that as hoovering.personally I think victims hoover we well in am attempt to get the narcissist to contact even if it’s just curiousity
One gives to control the other withholds to control but it’s always about control
I like, HG, that you ended by saying we aren’t helpless. We aren’t, but sometimes we’ve been beaten down so much that it can feel that way.
HG, i’ve never actually understood the meaning of The Narcissistic Relationship , maybe your answer will be the fact that the narcissist thinks you belong to them ? Is that it ?
Yes it is.
Thanks for your reply and that hand looks weird like a wax one
Yes it is my spare one – the real hands were busy elsewhere.
HG, Mel B was on Loose Women today talking about her book that’s out tomorrow documenting her 10 year abusive marriage to Stephan Belafonte (not sure how you spell his sir name ) anyway she’s describing a narcissist and very likely a psychopath but of course again these words are not used any where in the conversation. She talks of him seeking her out when vulnerable, sweeping her off her feet , control, abuse , controlling her money , isolating her , she believed it was her fault, ridiculous rules set out for the children that had to be obeyed , blackmail over sex tapes bla bla. He denies everything. Mel B is now working with some women’s organisation and the statistics are one woman a week is killed by a partner, i believe 3 commit suicide per month and other statistics . Mel B talked about talking to women in refuges that describe all the same patterns of behaviour no matter what their circumstances. BUT the words narcissism and psychopath never used ……. She kept saying these sort of people and talking about red flags . Your work/blog books need to be linked to this kind of book launch or this kind of representation as she’s now a spokes woman for UK woman’s helpline or some Org, someone like her referring people to your work?
How can that be done her social media ?
A mention on her twitter
Thank you Lisa, looks like there is a mission there for you. I have met Mel B a couple of times actually (and her husband) although of course she did not know I am HG.
Well that’s even more annoying that you have met her and could potentially have some small link there.
You should have said to her immediately when you met her
I AM HG 😉
Why not follow her on twitter as YOU
Whoever YOU are and let her know about the blog
I’m going to do that
HG did not exist when I met her.
I have a question on this. If a narcissist knows that you were involved with another narcissist at a previous time in your life in fact you actually told him all the details of the trauma and recovery etc even discussed personality disorders all before you knew you were dealing with another Narcissist does the new Narc still see you as his property ? And how would Narc 2 feel if Narc one was contacting you?
Yes. Wounded.
Ahaha damn you are greedy shits! Won’t even acquiesce to a Narc that was there before you. Lol
Wounded even if you had a new ipss to replace the old ipss ?
All of a sudden within the last week I read things here and it’s all beginning to click as to why certain. things were done. It’s like a light bulb that flipped on. If as if I’m starting to understand it from his perspective now
I swear to God sometimes I think it’s me that’s the Narc
Lori, if I may ask – what makes you sometimes think that you are the Narc?
Because I bore of people and relationships. I may stay in them but i get bored. I also seek worth outside myself. Some not all but some of the things HG writes I completely identify with.
Lori
Being human, we all have many traits in common. We also all have some narc traits. The things you listed don’t make you a narc. Aren’t they traits common in codependents?
Bottom line: when you see someone/something hurt or in pain, do you feel compassion for them? Do you have natural empathy? If you do, then you are not a narc.
It is normal to question ourselves at times and have self doubts, to fear we are worse than we are. In my opinion this self-doubt is a sign we are NOT narcissists.
Lori
Are you now questioning your diagnosis of being Co-D?
Not really. They were both (psychiatrist and psychotherapist)
extremely qualified individuals. I think it’s that I have many narcissistic traits but I do know I don’t have the desire to hurt others and that I can empathize with others and I suppose that’s where the differentiation comes in but I do feel I derive evergy from others, I bore easily, I can be manipulative. I can be the doormat or I can be the controller it just depends on the person I’m engaged with Burbank I always have sense of what works with whom.
BUT sometimes I totally get Hg s perspective especially about people becoming stale
The more I read about the 2 disorders the more I feel the Codepebdent is a less damaged version on the Narcissist. I feel a Codepebdent is a aNarcissust with a full range of emotions. I find them extremely and I feel that’s why they prefer a Codepebdent because with the Codepebdent they can see themselves with a full range of emotions. This is why these two feel whole with each other for a time until one starts fighting rhe other for control
Lori
It seems to me that rather than being a N, you are just in a time of personal growth, and how you’ve been doesn’t fit you anymore.
This is good. I recognise the same thing in myself.
I was groomed for abuse, and squashed into being a Frankensteindaughter that fit with the twisted dynamic I grew up in. I wasn’t allowed to be myself, there was no room for me.
I imagine that it’s the same for you.
I loved Melody Beattie’s Co-dependant Nomore. Like the N’s defense mechanism being Narcissism, a squashed empath’s survival mechanism is co-dependancy, but it isn’t their CORE self.
Lori, you’re becoming your true self now. Your butterfly wings have been crushed, but now you can open them because it’s safe to. It will feel really strange at first, but this is your time now.
You get to be the Leading Lady in your own life.
I appreciate those kind words Caroline. I Do feel that I have improved somewhat with awareness. But cured ? No I am not cured and I know this because I got involved with another Narcissist and when I tell you there were fireworks when this man and I met. We were completely smitten and immersed in one another. We were pefect inversions of each other. I think the sparks were more intense and lasted longer with me than others because of this.
I am a Codepebdent with a lot of narcissistic traits
Caroline
Funny thing is I did not initially embrace the concept of codependency. I even found it somewhat offensive.I personally thought it was some made up bunch of fooey of a diagnosis but as time went on and I was in therapy and began to learn about it, my opinion had completely changed. This is a disorder just like Narcissism that developed in childhood. Once you become more educated on subject, you see that Codependents while they come in many flavors like Narcs, have certain rigid self destructive behaviors that are relatively unconscious to them. It’s been debated as to whether Codependency should be included in The DSM with the other cluster B emotional disorders, but has been rejected but I do believe at some point it will be included. The thing with true codependency is that it is a bit less destructive to others and responds more to treatment than the other cluster B s, but there are many similarities. If you ever see a severe Codepebdent, sometimes they will seem as if they have Borderline Personality Disorder which is what initially rhought I had. I was not diagnosed severe Codependency, but moderate but at the time was under severe emotional stress.
In my opinion, if you are someone that has had more than one romantic entanglement with a narcissist, you at the very least have Codepebdent tendencies. Completely emotionally healthy people do not get involved with these type of people more than once. It may happen once, but it doesn’t last long. They get out early and don’t go back
I often see people take offense to the label and in my experience, the more offended the individual is at the suggestion of it, the more likely it’s striking a nerve of truth for them. Just my opinion
between you and me (not I)