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213 Comments

  1. HG

    Reading through this thread I started to wonder if I’m an Empath. I see here people asking if they can give their point of view on someone not me I just throw it out there whether they like it or not especially if I’ve read something annoying.

    Based on what you read from me, would you classify me as a Codepebdent Empath?

      1. Actually I’m really dying to but I do have privacy concerns about the way my payment is processed etc not with you, but with someone on my family seeing that transaction plus I really need to read the book Chained to see what a Narcissists Perspective on a Codepebdent is first since I have been formally disgnosed by a professional but I’m interested to find out what your thoughts are. Aside from the fact that I’m still trying very hard to overcome from this last Narc, I find this subject fascinating. As I’ve said many times, you have filled in the missing link as to what Narcissism looks like in everyday interactions which therapist doesnt really do. Why ? Because they dont have that perspective. They tend to speak to from a clinical perspective telling you that Narcs have low self esteem etc… which I think misleads. While clinically that may be true, I’m don’t think Narcs feel low self esteem and self loathing in their daily life. I think these feelings are below the surface and while it’s there it’s not conscious to them

        1. Lori,
          Open a new Paypal account with a separate email address. Purchase a prepaid credit card with cash (the kind you can give as a gift card). You can pay HG that way and it will not be seen.
          Just my two cents since I have paid HG several times this way, and I had the same concerns you do!

          1. Supernova
            That is very helpful as I’m sure others have those same concerns and it should not prevent them from getting the help they need.

          2. Yes I agree! I (unfortunately) have learned how to be very sneaky during the time with MMRN!

            Now, if only I could figure out how to 1) hide a skype call 2) find a stolen hour amongst full time job, children, husband, and time difference between UK and US…..then I could GOSO consult!!!!!

  2. There have been some crazy threads around here lately, but if you pick through the comments there are some gems that are quite educational.

    The BPD traits/psychology is very interesting. I have displayed some of them prominently when I was enmeshed as IPSS with MMRN. I had uncontrolled emotional outbursts when ignored or on the threshold of him abandoning me, I had impulsive behaviors that I regretted later, I returned several times even when I knew it was unhealthy.

    BUT I am not like that elsewhere in my life, not at all. So I agree with what some say here about it being a reaction to the NPD abuse – and it certainly helps them gaslight you and blameshift to you haha.

    I can’t remember who said it on the thread, but the distinction between honesty and truth is important. My MMRN always would insist he was being honest, it infuriated me at the time. Now I totally get it, since it WAS his truth at the time.

    All these crazy attacks on HG are distracting, kind of hoping things can get back to business and education.

    1. They serve a purpose by demonstrating certain behaviours but there comes a point when they are distracting and become superfluous. The focus shall return to the dissemination of information and education.

  3. Hg

    I saw an exchange between the Narc and his new ipss. It was under one of his alternate accounts where he doesn’t have my alternate account. He’s aware of my alternate account and always has been and if us blocked from his legitimate account but not his alternate. Anyway I saw this exchange with obvious sexual undertones. It was left public. I’m at my longest of no communication. I must admit I did want to text but I exercised some self control and refrained from doing so Along witb this the following things have happened in the last month

    2 fake profile requests using the same first name not his but one he chose both profiles from the same city as his

    2 unknown calls around my birthday

    Commenting on posts he knows I commented on

    Leaving a picture of himself looking very fit public on IG this after I have been they a period of becoming more fit

    And lastly this thing left public with the new ipss

    With all that said. He had not unblocked me on Facebook

    Are these all hoovers ? And if so, what happens if you continue to ignore them

  4. Hg or anyone. Geez I’m having a tough time today. Yesterday I saw an exchange between him and my replacement that had sexual connotations. I have to say it hurt to read. Please someone reassure me that she will suffer the same. I know that this had nothing to do with me but even knowing that cognitively, It feels very much about me emotionally.

    I have not reached out to him in anyway in 2 months and it did cause me to re block him on my phone. He is blocked everywhere. I just don’t want to deal with him anymore. I hope that I will just keep him blocked on my phone but I can never make guarantees. One day at time I just know today I felt like I had to do it.

    Hg how long or if ever does it take for them to notice an sipsss has gone no contact ? The fact that the exchange was public tells me that he was trying to prevoke me that it’s likely malign hoover ?

    1. It depends on when they try to hoover, thus as ever, governed by the Hoover Trigger and whether the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.

      1. What do you mean it depends on when they try to hoover. Do you mean with respect to whether it’s a malign Hoover ?

  5. Tigerchelle,

    I wanted to share a quote from Josemaria Escriva to you but I couldn’t find it right now. I will just paraphrase it as beat as I could.

    Whenever I find myself starting to wallow into victimhood from the unfortunate things that happened to me in the past, I snap out of it really fast by remembering what Escriva said. I can’t remember the exact words but he basically said that we tend to start getting depressed or unhappy when we focus too much in ourselves. Focusing on thoughts about us, how we think things have been unfair for us, how things should have been for us are basically toxic and unhelpful. So we should stop that and start thinking about others or someone else. That’s why I suggested that you look at your husband and maybe focus on him instead. I have only read one post that you mentioned him about him filibg a restraining order against your narcy friend, from that little info I assumed that he might also need support from all of the stress. Hope this helps.

    1. This is to Tigerchelle and therefore maybe I should not interfere, but I think those are very wise words Mommypino xx

  6. Wow, where was I when all of this was going on?

    Tigerchelle,
    I don’t know what is going on in your life but I wish you the best and I wish that you get better. I’m like many here who feels bad when we see attacks on HG. It’s not because we don’t see that he is a narcissist psycopath, we do recognize everything that he did, both the good and the bad. It’s because we accept that he is what he is and we are grateful for the valuable information that he is providing the world. We know that a lot of people are benefitting from his insight and talents and we are looking at the big picture. We ourselves have benefitted from it.

    I have emailed HG twice since I have been on this blog and both times I was surprised by his immediate and polite response. I am thankful for it. The first time was when I was new here and I shared a story about my matrinarc that I haven’t told anyone except my husband and I was totally embarrassed so I asked him to delete it and he deleted it right away. The second time was when I noticed that I had older comments that did not show up while my more recent comments did show up so I asked him if my older comments violated any rules or if they offended anyone. Being raised by a matrinarc who criticized me cobstantly, I have a tendency to second guess myself and be paranoid about making mistakes. He was so professional reaponding that some comments are still awaiting moderation because he is away. The way I see it is that he really do have the prerogative to approve comments because this is his blog and we are all guests benefitting from this venue and information that he is providing. I am thankful that as a bonus he has always been so courteous as well.

    I come here because most of my life I have hidden the fact that my mom was abusive and weird. Most of my friends growing up saw her as an extremely dedicated and overly strict mom who loves me. Even my dad wasn’t aware of all of the crazyness. And this blog is a venue where people actually understand what I went through because they have experienced it themselves. Also I learn so much about abusive behaviors and one of my biggest problems was giving people the benefit of the doubt but now I know what abusive behaviors are and so I will not put up with them anymore. I support HG and he is helping a lot of people. And like I said Tigerchelle, I hope that you get better and love yourself and do not self harm. I have read in your other posts that you have a husband. I sometimes wonder how all of these affects him. I don’t know anything about your marriage but from what little I have read, he deserves kudos and attention from you for sticking with you throughout all of the hard times. Maybe you should focus on him? Take care. 💕

  7. Dear HG,

    I wrote 3 comments in one night. 2 of them you’ve moderated, one you haven’t. It just happened to be a comment to Tigerchelle. What a coincidence!

    Of course I thought I’m just patiently gonna wait this time, but then I realised you’d be so disappointed for not receiving any fuel, and I do not like to disappoint you darling, so I thought, what the heck, I’ll give my sweetheart what he loves so much. Here we go baby…

    Now before you get your repetitive parrot out, I’ll save you some work and respond for you to myself:

    ‘2SF, your comment is awaiting moderation. And because you apparently feel entitled to have your comment put up here, you must be a narc’

    So, that’s clear then.

    You know I really love it when you play with me and then write some kind of little pity play for your Tudorites to come to your resque. I can just see your sweet sanctimonious, innocent sulking face before me. It feels so familiar. My mother, ex-husband and musician friend loved to play with me like that as well. I’m so grateful for that. It makes me feel like I matter.

    Ohw my, you and I, we would make such a great team together.. Please… marry me, I won’t disappoint you, I’m an inexhaustible fuel-well.
    Or at least allow me a place in your harem. Often I think of you as a Hugh Hefner in the Playboy Mansion. You must build yourself a mansion. We’ll call it the ‘Fuckboy Mansion’, how about that? Your entire Tudorites Cheerleading Squat will be there to entertain you. I so hope I deserve a place in there as well by giving you as much fuel as I can.
    Wouldn’t we all have the party of a lifetime, worshipping and adoring you?
    Now sweetheart, once you have recovered from all the exhaustion of travelling, please be so kind to moderate my comment to Tiger, will you? (By the way, I feel T deserves a place in your mansion as well, you’d need a little ‘contradiction’ in there, won’t you? Receiving all positive fuel only would bore you immensely, wouldn’t it?)
    Next time you’re travelling, take me with you, you deserve a daily massage and someone who’ll wipe you forehead when you’re all overworked from moderating.
    Bye sweetheart, thanks for playing, I love you more and more each day xxx

    1. I have been away – many comments have been in moderation, including your own. It really is that simple.

      1. Of course it was, I wouldn’t expect anything else from you :) . We are celebrating N-ex’s birthday today so wish me luck for a ‘cosy’ dinner tonight. Glad you’re back xx

    2. I swear to God this shit is getting old. If you don’t like it or feel manipulated by him then why are you still here? I’ll say it again if you feel you are being manipulated by a psychopath and truly understand it why in the would you continue? Normal.people don’t do thar.

      It’s really simple if you don’t like it, leave. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? No you ciomtinue to engage because you are like a crackhead. You get something you need from it. Period. You are getting some sort of validation or attention that you crave and you know good and well that it’s true.

      Either there has been a flurry of nut jobs or this is the same person. I suppose either could be the case

  8. HG

    Will you confirm I am an Empath.
    I know some already know, some don’t. I am sick and tired of the BS and what I feel the intentions behind some comments here on the blog.

    Someone who is going to come here and manipulate people emotions and start using these subtle insinuating gestures just for attention and the fucking me me me the world must look at me.
    Look at the few that showed so much concern over picture changes then her remark of I have sucidal tendentcies and then poor me I can speak of it here because no one cares and will comfort me, boo boo BS

    I am aware those with BPD do control situations and can be manipulated and emotions in the extreme, in their personal lives to those they believe are causing them harm. I believe thou they have A SELF CONTROL and will make a decision to leave A PLACE that repeatedly triggers them, not stay and manipulate, lie , lash out and show no self control always blaming the BPD, those are traits of one of your lower two schools that do not see they are seeking fuel and here is a wonderful place of many empathic compassionate people that I am sorry will not always pick up intentions or trust a gut feeling because somewhere there is doubt due to first impressions, and naturally trusting that people actually mean what they say, then always looking and/or accepting/giving excuses for unacceptable behavior.

    Thank you HG.

      1. I do want to ask you about myself at some point though HG! Sometime soon. For curiosity’s sake.
        : )
        (look how quickly I bounce back)

  9. Ooooo that NarcAngel, yes, I know that one… Logical, funny, straightforward, supportive, loyal, caring and protective, lover of animals. Understanding. Sociable.
    Respectful of others opinions. Able to disagree yet respectfully so.
    A person who would gladly ride to the defence of someone in need and someone who does not deserve to be attacked.

    Period.

    Yes, its true, everyone knows NarcAngel… Anyone with even a drop of insight and a modicum of discernment, that is.
    🐾

      1. Haha… The WordPress gremlin Christmas reply Grinch has been creeping around my reply buttons… Saying things haven’t been sent lol….oh well… Nevermind…. Sent 3! 3 replies albeit identical are as seasonal as we three kings….haha.. but if this doesn’t make sense…that will be because HG has only released one of them to save repetitive replies… Naughty WordPress.

    1. I wanted to say something regarding my respect for Narc Angel too Debbie. You said it better than I ever could and I agree with you 100%. Anybody that doesn’t observe the same hasn’t paid attention. I know good people when I see them.

  10. Well this thread a nice little sample of cluster b stuff

    You have HG the Narcissist. Lori the Codependent and Tigerchellr the Borderline Lol

  11. On this occasion I was upset at the fact that he was saying PTSD and inner demons, was narcissism escaping accountability. At least thats what I understood from it. I have complex PTSD, and I often refer to my inner turmoil as inner demons…. Yet these are not excuses for escaping accountability.
    So it seemed (at least to me) he was adding yet more stigma to other cluster B’s. I know my behaviour is unpredictable, and I have my triggers. Yeah I hate me too.

    You’ll have to all come to your own conclusions, which you all usually successfully do no matter what I say. Say what you want….. Scrutinize me, and judge away…..
    But please make it as bad and cruel as possible, and really attack me…. Pretend I’m your worst enemy!

    What’s really weird though is that HG is often the most calmest and gentle back yet he is the one being attacked…..and he is the psychopath…. Bizarre!?

    1. I was referring to narcissism. You completely missed the point of what was being stated – why? Because you immediately wanted it to be all about you and you have jumped in and reached precisely the wrong conclusion. Not only that, you then launch into an unmerited and abusive attack. You, however, remain unable to see what is being exhibited by your behaviour. You repeatedly state you are never posting again, never contacting me again and then you return – again and again and again. You demand that I block you so you would be able to then go around misrepresenting the position “Oh horrible HG Tudor, he blocked me from his blog” making it all about you. Nobody gets blocked from the blog – certain comments will not appear as previously explained. If I cause you so much of a problem why not exercise some self-regulation and stay away from my work? But you cannot and will not. I am entirely calm in my responses because I approach the matter with a logical, forensic mind.

      1. I’m suddenly coujuring up images of Glen Close in Fatal Attraction all crazy eyed screaming I WILL MOT BE IGNORED!!!

        Ahhh cluster b humor

    2. I took a vacation day this week so I’m enjoying the blog and especially this display of borderline behavior! (I guess I miss it when I’m not at work.) Tigerchelle—I can’t even imagine worrying about my entries being posted. In fact, all of my narc site emails started going to spam and I didn’t even notice or think to check spam for probably 3 weeks of them being directed to that inbox. I had to go back to October entries yesterday to find any replies. You’ve given me the gift of gratitude today. I could be you. I thought my life was a shit show over the last year! And the attacks are so weird because it’s like you are angry at HG for having a personality disorder. I’m not even angry with my husband for being a narcissist. I’m angry more at myself for being a dumb ass for so long and I’m actually sad for him in more ways than I’m angry. It’s illogical to be so hate filled. You clearly have uncompensated cluster B pathology and you are a pain in the ass. Although, your rambling did allow me to laugh a little..

    3. There is no question you have Bpd. All about you and your victimhood. You have a lot of nerve coming here attempting to dictate and then playing innocent victim when I know you do to others at lesst Tudor is honest about it

    4. Do you tell your therapist that you and participate on a Narcissists blog? I bet not.

      No one is forcing you here. You can stop any time. You need to examine why you are still doing this. I know why but you need to know why

  12. I did get it all out! Thanks…..

    I come here to self-harm often psychologically, mentally and emotionally…..
    I have told HG to ban me or block me or not put my comments through if he feels I’m attacking him, as often I can project the anger I have for myself onto him.

    Thanks for being there for me NarcAngel

    1. And then when your comments do not appear because they are in moderation you e-mail me demanding they are put through and claiming that you are being singled out. Entitlement.

      You have also misunderstood the thrust of what NA has written, but then that is because you think it is all about you.

      1. Of course HG, you must be right, because you have all the facts and you “must” know me, whatever you say….
        Its not about me, its all about you….did you forget?
        But I know how you always must make it a certain way. You hate the attention going elsewhere….
        Shall we bring it back to you now?

        1. Well it would make a nice change wouldn’t it after your attention seeking? Despite your attempts (repeated) to gain attention you only gain it based on people’s dislike of your behaviour. I, on the other hand actually provide insight and understanding. I notice you’ve failed to respond to the readers’ observations about you. You have been given repeated opportunities to behave and you repeatedly fail.

      2. Incorrect. I also like to correct inaccuracies. You deliberately hold comments back. I have seen many complain of this. I am not the only one. This is part of your manipulation you use on here.
        You come out with the same jargon, and expect us to just accept it and kiss your feet.
        No this blog is all about you Tudor, how many times do you need reminding??? Your books, your consultations, your legacy, its all you. Perhaps you need to put up one of those articles reminding yourself of the god you are that walks amongst us mortals…..

        Tell me, if you do not like my comments, then why put them through? You have the control. why not exercise some restraint? Ah, I know why….its so that you can show everyone my bad NARCY behaviour isnt it? Your behaviour is also seen. Many may not comment, but they see it.

        1. Please provide evidence of comments being deliberately held back and I mean evidence not your paranoid, self-entitled fantasises. There are 216 682 comments on this blog. You suggest “many” have complained about comments being held back – well if it’s many that would be over half wouldn’t it, so over 113 000 complaints would exist so where are they then? Up in the sky with the flying pigs?

          So first of all I do not put your comments through (except I do) and then you demand to know why are your comments put through if I do not like them. Which is it? I find your comments a perfect example to show the readers, that is why I put them through. Your attacks do not concern me because they are without foundation and merely serve to show precisely how ill-mannered and deluded you are.

          Yes this blog is about me, guess why? Because I created it, I write its content, I moderate it and I answer questions and make observations on comment and 99% of the readers enjoy, appreciate and find actual understanding here. What do you do? You jump up and down demanding my attention over and over – you even create a blog and call it Knowing the Borderline because you cannot help yourself but mimic.

          I will continue to correct your inaccuracies.

          You are back. Again. You just cannot stay away can you?

      3. HG

        People email you demanding you to put their comments through? Do you get that a lot ?

        Good lord people need to get a grip

        1. Fortunately, no. Some politely ask if they’ve done something wrong as a comment has not appeared, I explain the moderation rules and process. Then there’s a small number who demand their posts are put through and claim they are being singled out in some way ( which they are not and they cannot know whether that’s the case as they don’t know how many other comments are waiting) of course we all know who the latter category are!

  13. Well he does like them already narc-trained, and obedient. Tudor “thinks” he is James Bond I’m sure, rescuing her. Or at least that’s the role he will play…..How cute!
    She doesn’t realise that she is going to get used and abused, in every way. (Take of your rose coloured glasses MB)
    Tudor is only interested in one thing, and that’s her name, and the prestige that comes with it.

    She already wishes she was dead. Now she will definitely want to be.

          1. Twilight
            Her plan is : She attacks HG. We attack her. She infers that she self-harms, hopefully inducing guilt (epic fail). She asks HG to label her narcissist and ban her from the blog because she knows he will not, and if he did or we do then she gets her attention and her Mid-Victim self is fuelled, although she fails to recognize that and prefers to pull up every category from the DSM to cover her manipulations. Its all horseshit and she’s been exposed. This is a case of where I am referring to letting someone talk and engage until they reveal themselves. They always do. Amateur.

          2. NarcAngel

            Like you I have known from the beginning when she first appeared. I have all but actually called her a narcissist. I have never liked her, yet she served a purpose. Many fell for her teary eye BS, I am hoping they see the pattern to better equipped themselves in their lives.

            I really was curious to what her interpretation of self harm one gets from cyberspace.

          3. The feeling is mutual Twilight

            And of course you know everything don’t you…..

            There are many “patterns” to be seen within this blog, not just mine…..

          4. Or maybe they’ve just been here longer to learn from the master how to do it properly. I have been here about 6 months on and off. They have been here close to 4 years….

          5. What utter rubbish. You’ll see that those readers have been consistent in their constructive approach from day one. Nor have they been here close to 4 years. Keep digging….

          6. T/C
            Too bad for you it only took some of us about 6 minutes to recognize your behaviours and intention. Time to find a new pasture where they can’t tell wool from synthetic. Yet.

          7. Tigerchelle78

            It is interesting that you jumped in scene declaring I am BPD and comparing your traits to HGs, you began to weave your facade to cover your behaviors. First interactions have a way of making people wonder is this true or they will automatically assume well they know what they are so it must be.

            You mirror HG when You called your blog Knowing the Boardline, then let’s not forget the moment when you mirrored Windstorm with I am a Contagion because I feel so deeply. You feel deeply for yourself and no one else, even thou you do fake it at times.

            Your infatuation with HG and have tried on numerous occasions to manipulate him into blocking you when he has not given you the attention you wanted. I mean seriously you admitted to sending him hundreds of emails and when it was known (to keep things accurate) numerous messages to HG, you then claimed that you didn’t think HG would want people knowing this fact, because why? I suspect in your delusional mind you want some connection to him and have targeted him yet trying to manipulate things as if he was the one to target you.

            You repeatedly use the excuse I am triggered because you have no self control when you feel wounded and need a pick me up. I mean really you admitted it was easier if people hated you. Negative energy is potent.

            Your excuse of being triggered by HGs explanation of why a midranger would use PTSD or demons to explain behavior. More like you took it personal due to your infatuation like he was trying to manipulate or make a subtle jab at you when his comment was a generalized one.

            Then you change your picture today to gain sympathy because you are so distraught and it is me me me me look at me give me attention.

            You state your not a lier or manipulative. Bull shit. How many times have you stated I am gone only to reappear later, that is a lie and shows you have no self control. Now if you had been HGs IPPS this behavior would be understandable, you have not you a nobody to him. One he would never target to make an iPPS or IPSS. You have shown to manipulate with the entire he can block me if he doesn’t like my behavior and even tried to manipulate his readers by claiming they can tell him to block you after reading he has been emailed privately by a few.

            I actually believe you believe you are BPD because it gives you the blanket (facade) you need to harvest your fuel.

            One thing is positive you are an attention seeking manipulative snipe.

          8. Everyone knows who you are NarcAngel……Everyone. Your comments scrutinising, judging, bullying, along with your loyal fans… lifting yourself high above them in doing so, looking down on those not worthy to be here….in your self-righteous opinion…. like they are nothing……

            Someone has taught you to do this….. Because you do it well….very well!

          9. T/C
            Everyone in your camp you mean. Well yes, I should hope that you and your friends know who and what I am and that you have no effect on me, except for a short time – amusement, but even that has come to an end.

      1. Narc Angel

        It’s emotional cutting. They put stuff out there they lniw will cause people to lash out and then they experience the pain and draw attention to themselves

        As whacked out as that is, it is the essence of the Borderline and we have see classic Bpd symptoms.

        I thought I had this Narc 1 because I kept returning for more abuse from him and was completely enmeshed but I don’t. I’m just plain vanilla Codepenent

        They almost have no self control

        1. Lori
          Whatever she is, her intentions have been exposed and we are indifferent to her disappointing tactics. She’s a real yawn. Nothing special at all.

      2. Lori
        You could never be just vanilla
        You’re adorable.
        And have a great kick-ass side which you demonstrated perfectly today. I’m so proud of you.

      3. Caroline

        Thank you. That’s why I feel the door mat description doesn’t isnt the full picture of the Codepebdent but merely one flavor. I can most certainly display that but mostly you only see that in me in a romantic situation or a situation or dynamic where I don’t feel confident in the subject matter or I feel someone has been able to establish dominance over me but more often than not I’m the dominant controller. If I’m honest, I can display some very Narcissistic behavior

      4. Hi Tigerchelle, I didn’t like so much what you wrote on this thread, but you were open about your condition from the start, if I remember well – so we as readers knew what could possibly happen.
        I really don’t know how it is to have BPD, but I believe it is a damned horrible condition to have. I hope you have someone in your life that you can learn from and who you trust, Tigerchelle. I wish you the best.

    1. Tigerchelle, I love you. I know you have a troubled mind and soul and you can’t help yourself. You have been honest about your BPD and I guess you come here to ‘attack’ HG when most likely you’d want to attack people from the past, probably your parents. Please look for someone who can really help you deal with your past and please do not come to this blog again. It is of no help to you in any way. It doesn;t make you feel better afterwards, you’ll only feel worse. You don’t want this. Take care Tiger xxx

      1. “and please do not come to this blog again”

        I can not believe I wrote this. Sorry, I have no right to say this. But I meant it like I don’t like to see you attacked by everyone.

        1. 2SF

          I am curious why does she affect you in this manner? Do you truly “feel” her pain or is it your own triggered mistaken for hers?

      2. Twilight, please can you describe ‘your own triggered mistaken for hers’ in other words? I’m not English and I do not understand this, sorry.

        Tigerchelle affects me, because I feel she is honest about her BPD and the things she says. There is a lot of contradiction yes, but that is her disorder. I feel she is sincere and I feel her pain indeed. My friend in the UK has a foster child who is self harming. It is extremely heart-wrenching to feel the pain this boy is in. I feel compassion for Tiger, I can not deny my feelings.

        1. 2SF

          I was asking if you actually “feel” her?

          From her perspective she is being honest, she is not being truthful thou. That is where the difference is and when one must be able to discern truth from honesty.

          Honestly is ones perspective of what the truth is
          Truth is the reality of what is. It is uncomfortable and people will avoid it to stay comfortable, even empaths do this.

        2. 2SF

          “My friend in the UK has a foster child who is self harming. It is extremely heart-wrenching to feel the pain this boy is in. I feel compassion for Tiger, I can not deny my feelings.”

          That is your trigger, Tigerchelle78 words trigger you not her emotions. This is where many confuse actually “feeling” another and mistaken their own emotions to be another’s. Then you add the pictures she has used to add enforcement to her words which triggers you even more, bringing you deeper into her world.

          1. Twilight
            I found your comment very interesting. I’d never really thought about the difference. I know that I can’t actually feel people’s emotions from written comments. It’s easiest if I actually see the person, but I at least need to hear their voice.

            If I’m just going on a written comment, I have to use my own past experiences to interpret it and almost always in hindsight I’ve missed the mark some which way, because I’m basing it on how I would feel if I said those words. Sometimes it’s very shocking if I’ve drawn a conclusion based on texts, then hear the person’s voice on the phone.

          2. Windstorm

            I feel people’s emotions through written word, I “look” away out of respect for people unless given a reason to look closer. Anger and hatred feel like a person is peeling my skin from my flesh. In person this feel 1000x worse. Rarely am I wrong, I sit back and observe waiting to see which direction a person will take things.
            If I go by my emotions only, I am usually wrong and end up looking foolish.

            I read a quote once
            The most dangerous person is the one who listens, thinks, and observes. -Bruce Lee

            When I was young I was taught to observe, think before acting, most importantly thou was to listen not with my hearing thou. Blindfolded and ear plugs cuts two sense off, I had to depend on my “other” senses. I was also lonely and it was how I connected to people. My survival depended on my abilities, now it is my curse.

          3. Twilight
            I agree feeling other people’s emotions is like a curse.

            I was taught to watch and observe people, too, but with all my senses. I was just around narcs who probably didn’t even really believe in other senses and feeling emotions. Daddy believed they existed, but that only some people could feel them.

            I was very lonely, too. But my survival was never in jeopardy. I’m very sorry you had to endure that. Other than emotionally, my life was always rather blessed.

          4. Windstorm,

            I’m sorry you felt lonely growing up. I notice you tend to look at positive side: “Other than emotionally, my life was always rather blessed.” This is an admirable trait because I was reading that we can form our own reality based on how we think. If we start thinking positively, our brain’s feedback loop will allow us to see the bright side of things and be happy.

          5. Jenna
            I am a big believer in the power of positive thinking. Many years ago I read an article that stated thoughts were tangible things that left our brains and went out in the world to create change and make effects.

            Just as we clean our homes and environment, we have to monitor what thoughts we are releasing so we don’t have unintended consequences for ourselves and those around us. We can sculpt our lives to a large extent just using our own thought!

          6. NarcAngel
            I already clean my house using the thoughts. I just “think” it’s clean enough!

          7. Windstorm,
            Yes the power of positive thinking can shape who we become. In your situation, I am postulating that it was your positive thinking, along with you rejecting the negative role models (as opposed to hg embracing the power that he saw the negative role models having) that made you into an empath, despite being raised by two narcs. And I do know how mean your mother was, god rest her soul. Otherwise, you could have easily become a narc. I have alot of respect for you and the decisions you took that carved you into an empath.

          8. Thank you, Jenna. Although I would attribute my survival and any success to God – not my doing. I have always tried to put my fate in the hands of the universe and follow any signs I felt I received each day. That has consistently brought happiness, joy and comfort into my life, no matter what happened.

          9. Twilight,

            “Anger and hatred feel like a person is peeling my skin from my flesh. In person this feel 1000x worse.”

            This must be so difficult twilight. Thank god I am not contagion! I am standard (with narcissistic traits I think but I am trying to eliminate them through brain rewiring, and it’s working well so far). I hope the symptoms ease up for you. It can’t be easy.

          10. Jenna,

            I have never thought of it being difficult to deal with, it is just energy I am describing.

            Normal and empathetic/empathic/empath affect me slightly differently, this is why I observed and see which direction a person takes, if it decreases and begins to changed to joy and happiness that tells me they are not a narcissist. When a narcissist is fully fueled and “content” the anger is still there only it feels to be more of an undercurrent and not waves crashing down.

            I have said it is a curse to feel everyone, yet the thought of not feeling terrifies me.

            Your gifts and abilities are as unique and beautiful as you are, we all have narcissistic traits we wouldn’t survive with out them.

          11. Hi twilight,

            “I have said it is a curse to feel everyone, yet the thought of not feeling terrifies me.”
            That’s very sweet twilight. I like the way you look at it. I read with interest your descriptions of the process you go through. Thanks for sharing that with us.

        3. 2SF

          If I may share my perspective and why I feel the way I do towards Tigerchelle78. I have been observing her sense I noticed her on YouTube, how I noticed her was by how she felt what I mean with this is, I felt her anger and hatred. Some come here and project the anger and hatred onto HG due to what he is and what they have gone through, they usually calm down and begin to heal themselves due to actually stopping and listening to understand HG and not listening to respond. If they don’t they leave, what I suspect is they just can not accept one such as HG could speak truth, when his kind live by lies.

          From the moment I began to observe behaviors with Tigerchelle is when I started to pick up contradictions. What she was saying didn’t match with what she was feeling. This is a red flag for me, at this point I have to discern are they an empath/empathetic person hiding pain behind a smile or someone who manipulates. Then she appeared here mirroring HG from the start. I will explain what I mean by this.

          HG is loved, admired, and respected here due to him being consistent and truthful.He has a spotlight upon him that some are jealous of. When she jumped on scene describing how she understands HG due to having much in common with him, she was establishing a connection to him, alongside of I can share his limelight due to this “special “ connection. This by itself means nothing. She created a blog named Knowing the Boardline, Which I found interesting and decided I would see what it was about. I read what she posted and looked at the pictures she put up, specifically her eyes. They did not match her facial expressions. Another red flag for me.

          She admitted she will attach to people she “meets” on line groups, she stays until she gets “abused” by others leaves then returns. She has admitted she does this for the psychology abuse and prefers people hate her because it is easier to deal with.
          Why do you think, self harm or harvesting negative fuel?

          She made a comment a while back how her I believe it was her Grandmother was a powerful person and what she says goes, her father was her abuser and changed his attitude towards her after her Grandmother said out of everyone Tigerchelle held this same “power”. This screamed out hey I am powerful and special.

          At this point I have mirroring, I am special because no one else has this power I have, and a desire for people to react negative because it is easier to deal with.

          How many times has she reverted to the feeling suicide here, her pictures she has posted the one that had a look of oh poor me look I cut my arm several times, then the hangman’s knot. Attention seeking and shock to trigger sympathy and compassion. All I felt was anger behind these pictures. Not suicide tendencies. If you look back with this behavior it has modified from words to words and pictures.

          She has tried to control things here from the moment she arrived, from trying to get HG to do as she wants, one being to block her to even making a comment if readers will ask him he might do this after reading people have emailed him privately on her behavior.
          Why do you think she desires to be block from this blog?

          She has repeatedly said she was leaving only to reappear and repeat the cycle.
          She has repeatedly stated she is BPD, why does she feel the need to do this? Does she not believe people believed her the first time she stated this? (A red flag of one who lies)
          Has stated she doesn’t lie or manipulate, yet doesn’t see her behaviors as manipulative only a consequence of the BPD and used as an excuse.
          Has a sense of entitlement.

          I now have mirroring, controlling, attention seeking, entitlement, manipulative.

          When we focus on one thing, usually we do when our emotions are triggered we “forget” behaviors and do not see the pattern.

          When someone throws the I am going to take my life, one solely focuses on this and forgets the controlling behavior, not recognizing this is a controlling behavior by working on ones emotions and what if. A persons mind runs with if they do and I didn’t show compassion guilt will follow. This is also taking responsibility for something that was never yours to begin with.

          Are you familiar with the story of the boy who cried wolf?

          These are my thoughts and some of why I do not believe she is BPD yet NPD. I do not like her because I do not like mid rangers, plain and simple. She comes here to manipulate the many wonderful, beautiful and caring people here on the blog.

      3. Twilight, it seems you have already made up your mind about what I feel or do not feel, so I do not know if it makes sense to respond to this. Yes I “feel” my friend’s foster son. I also “feel” Tigerchelle. Besides them I ‘feel’ all other people that I engage with. I do not see two different people as the same.
        One does not self-harm for fun or just attention. Perhaps it is a cry for attention, but it is a sincere act of desperation. I remember a day where I was in so much pain myself that for the first time in my life I felt/understood what it must be like to want to ‘cut the pain out’.

        “Truth is the reality of what is”

        There is no such thing as “truth”. Any philosopher can tell you that.
        Your truth can be totally diferent from HG’s truth, Tigerchelle’s truth, my truth or anyone’s truth. Honesty therefore is being truthfull to your own truth, even if it doesn’t make sense to anybody else.
        People have been given different brains and a brain changes every second due to all kinds of circumstances.

        “It is uncomfortable and people will avoid it to stay comfortable, even empaths do this.”

        Sorry Twilight, but I disagree on this. Telling the truth (my truth) is far more comfortable than lying.

        I do not see where T is lying. Her comments might be contradictory, and the things she says or the pictures she shows unwanted, but I do not feel they are insincere

        1. 2SF

          We all carry are own truth which is influenced by our perspective. That is a persons reality.
          HGs perspective is different from mine, yet for each of us it is truth. It is not truth of what is. We both can experience the same moment all details the same (which is truth of what is) yet our perspectives influences what we see as truth (becomes our truth). Which in turns influences our emotions.

          Your experiences influence how you feel, what Tigerchelle writes about here triggers these experiences which you then feel, which triggers your empathy, sympathy and compassion. That is your truth, and one you are entitled to. What this is emotional contingency, not you feeling her true emotion or intentions.

          I disagree with you, people do self harm for attention. What makes things different from person to person is the intentions behind why they do what they do. Those who do it for attention seeking piss me off, those who do it because they don’t want to feel the pain they do breaks my heart.

      4. Twilight, sorry to intrude, your comment triggered me (to stick to the vocabulary). I am trying to understand what you mean. Is your perspective of Tigerchelle based on truth or on honesty?

      5. Twilight, thank you for your comment of Dec. 16 with the long explanation of your thoughts. I get what you are saying and I understand how you feel. Unlike you though, I do not see Tiger as ‘evil’. I know of all the things that you say, her behaviour, and for me all this behaviour confirms what she says about herself. She is a troubled person with BPD, having had a very twisted childhood with narcissistic parents. Manipulative behaviour to me is secretly (through gaslighting) manipulate people to do what you want them to do. T is very open and asking for things to be done (like block me.. etc.) to me that is not manipulative. It is also not ‘entitlement’ nor attention seeking.
        I see (and feel) T as a very troubled person, who is very honest about her ‘twisted’ actions, who is feeling suicidal (meaning in great despair) a lot of times. The question to block her is sincere, because she can not help herself. If I knew her personally I would try and help her, because instead of being attacked, one should feel compassion for a troubled soul like her.

        “HG is loved, admired, and respected here due to him being consistent and truthful.”

        Isn’t it weird how a narcissist who has done the most gruesome things is loved and admired but then a person with a different disorder is ‘hated’? Sure HG is consistent. Truthful he is not. Perhaps you haven’t understood this blog. A narcissist always lies. Always. Even when he says he is truthful. He has a disorder too. And I feel we should have compassion for people with disorders, because they have not given this disorder to themselves. We are our brain.

        1. 2SF
          I just want to correct one statement. A narcissist can never be trusted to tell the truth, yes, definitely. But this does not mean that they always lie. If they “always” lied, then they would be much less effective. People would learn to always disregard them. They actually tell the truth multiple times a day, at work and at home, especially the really smart ones.

          I go many times to my Pretzel for advice on a wide variety of things. After 45 years, we’ve known each other long enough that I can ask him what he really thinks about something and trust his answer. He may refuse to say, but he will not lie. Of course he is smart enough to realize when he actually is lying. Midranger’s may not even know, but they will still also speak truth often.

        2. 2SF

          First off where did I call Tigerchelle78 evil?
          I see her as a narcissist, the choices she makes and they way she behaves can be considered evil, not one time have I called her evil thou.
          I do not see narcissists as evil people, the choices they make are thou, from my perspective.

          You run completely from emotion, there is nothing wrong with this. My ex would call you a sheep waiting to be led to slaughter.

          When she states block me to HG and he doesn’t then she comes back lashing out then giving excuses. This is manipulative behavior. She is trying to control HG and make him block her, it is not a cry for help. Adding the it is my BPD doing this is a cover (her truth) for the manipulation.

          “HG is loved, admired, and respected here due to him being consistent and truthful”

          If we were to discuss HGs personal life I wouldn’t disagree that the chance is high he has lied at some point, yet I was speaking strictly of here on the blog. He hasn’t lied.

          A narcissist doesn’t always lie, my ex didn’t always lie. My husband didn’t always lie, unless it went against what he believed to be his truth. He had no awareness he was doing such.

        3. This is not a comment directed at 2SF but rather my thoughts after reading her post.

          I observe that people are usually admired or hated (although hated seems a lttle strong) based on how they conduct themselves and treat others and not on their disorder. True, narcissists lie and/or stretch the truth, but it is not specific to them by a long shot. It is not prudent to believe everything you see and hear from those who are purportedly not narcissists either (here or in real life). People will draw their own conclusions and understandably those may differ. That appears to be the case here, with the result being the same: Attention. The goal of attention was acheived regardless the original intention.

      6. “What this is emotional contingency, not you feeling her true emotion or intentions.”

        So Twilight, what you are saying is that I can not feel her true emotions or intentions, but you can?
        How could we really know? It’s a feeling.

        “I disagree with you, people do self harm for attention. What makes things different from person to person is the intentions behind why they do what they do. Those who do it for attention seeking piss me off,”

        Don’t you think people who harm themselves for attention have a disorder? Would a ‘normal’, sane person do such a thing?
        My believes are that people who cut themselves do this in despair. And the fact they are showing the scars is a cry for help. But no one can really help them, unless they seek good professional help.
        I feel attacking people like her only make things worse. Reasoning, asking, explaining would be better, but that is hard on a blog like this, having to wait for moderation etc. T needs to get good professional help and eat a healthy diet. That may sound weird, but I read we have ‘a second brain’ in our intestines. When we eat healthy pure foods this changes our brain and can also solve some mental disorders. I believe that to be true. There is enough proof besides speaking from my own experience. And besides this, one needs to stay away from narcs (or understand them, so you can’t be gaslighted anymore).

        Twilight, we do not have to agree on T. You feel what you feel and I feel what I feel. That’s okay, we can agree to disagree. xx

        1. 2SF

          I am going to point out an observation I made with Tigerchelle picture she used for a brief moment, the one where she was showing her arm with what appears to be her cutting.
          For starters they stood out and were bright red. I noticed no blood ran between the lines, a person moving their arm from a cutting position to above their head one would think the blood would have ran is another direction besides a straight line. Then add the time it takes to take the picture.
          She didn’t cut herself, it was staged for shock, attention, and triggering people’s emotions.

          Not all people harm themselves for attention, they do it to numb the pain they feel, not for attention. They also hide the fact they are harming themselves or try to. If someone is observant and know the person they will pick up “tells” they are harming themselves. Attention seekers make announcements, like taking pictures, pointing out what they are doing, making a scene.

          A professional can not help anyone who doesn’t desire the help and desires to put the work involved in changing their behavior, I do not care how good the professional is.

          Reasoning, asking and explaining to a person who gives excuses for their behavior is wasted energy and banging your head on a brick wall until you have a concussion.

          Please explain what mental disorders are solved with eating pure healthy foods?

      7. Sorry to join in the conversation here but I just want to add my opinion.

        First, I do believe that HG lies in his private life a lot, as he has stated in the article lies. But I think that everything that he write about narcissism in his works are absolutely true. He wants to have a legacy and his narcissism will make sure that his work is excellent, accurate, and the best. So I agree with Windstorm.

        Second, I am not a Contagion empath, the closest I get to Contagion is nit being able to stop myself from laughing or crying when I see someone do the same in front of me and I have to say I might be feelibg their emotions a little bit too but I will have to observe myself better. I am not contagion on a spiritual level, I am actually really poor at it. But like 2SF, Tigerchelle asking to be blocked just really made me feel that she genuinely needs help. She obviously has poor self regulation, although I noticed that she is able to resist joining in this thread and responding so I am happy for her for that. I just feel that a little kindness doesn’t hurt anybody even though I disagreed with what she said about HG and NA and I didn’t like the way she talked to MB about rose colored glasses. I didn’t feel the need to join in the defence of HG, NA, and even MB because they are strong people but I see that Tigerchelle is the one who needs strength. And maybe a little gentleness towards her will help her a little bit. I wish that she would see herself for the beautiful person that she is created.

      8. Windstorm I totally agree with you. I’ve been with a greater for 25 years and he was much like your Pretzel. I did not mean to say they lie all of the time, I meant to say they will always lie whenever it benefits them. For instance, when I would ask him about a certain writer he would start his monologue. Then, when I’d ask him a certain question that he didn’t know he would make up something. “I don’t know’ is an answer that is not in his vocabulary. Also he’d always lie about his drinking and drug addiction and about his past. One time he told me how he hated the fact that his parents were always drunk after work, every evening. When one day I mentioned this (with regard to our sons, he denied it, because it didn’t benefit him.

        “He may refuse to say,”

        haha, that is my Nex’s adagium ;)

      9. NA,

        “I observe that people are usually admired or hated (although hated seems a lttle strong) based on how they conduct themselves and treat others and not on their disorder.”

        We must have a different way of observing NA, I do not think about people in terms of ‘admiration’ or ‘hatred’ and I wonder if other people do. One can agree or disagree, one can like or dislike people’s comments or attitude, but admiration or hatred (although too strong) does not cross my mind.

        “The goal of attention was achieved regardless the original intention”

        Nothing wrong with giving people who like, or are in need of, attention what they want. I hope it makes them feel good.
        I can understand though that you’d feel different about it in this case.