The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 1
A series of memes which encapsulate the golden rules that you MUST apply to enable you to build your Logic Defences, overcome the power of your emotional thinking and enable you to achieve freedom.
By accepting these golden rules and repeatedly reading them out loud and writing them down, ensuring you do so frequently, you will create one of the many Logic Defences which is necessary to bring your emotional thinking under control. Learn the golden rules, apply the golden rules and remind yourself of the golden rules. These golden rules will lead you to freedom.
When you know, you go. When you know you are entangled with a narcissist – you go. You do not wait around seeking answers from that person (seek them from me instead). You do not try to heal them, you do not remain trying to decipher their behaviour (I will do that for you). When you know that a fresh narcissist is trying to seduce you – you go. When you know that a narcissist is hoovering you – you go. But most of all, when you are already entangled and you finally learn what it is you are entangled with – you go. You have to remove yourself from the toxic influence which is maintaining your emotional infection, feeding your addiction and keeping you stuck, all aided and abetted by your con-artist in residence,your emotional thinking.
Never breach this rule. If you do, you are preventing yourself from achieving freedom. Anything which contravenes this rule is emotional thinking which wants you to remain entangled, seduced or hoovered.
90 thoughts on “The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 1”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Hi!! You have given me so much information, thankyou for that. This may sound strange, but I see you as a friend. I got all my answers on the behaviour of my ex. Especially when i was sick in the hospital, and asked him if he wants to be there for me (by just sending a sweet message), he got angry and gave me a silent treatment. Accused me of cheating 2 times, gaslighting, lying etc. Now I am able to close that chapter, and get freedom.
You are welcome.
I am the answer.
I so want that freedom… wish I had somewhere to go,! My problems are all practical ones..
Dear Mr Tudor,
I recommend the Marie Kondo method … if it doesn’t give you “joy” …..get rid of it
🤣
Sterling piece may I say
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Many thanks Bubbles.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Your most welcome
Bubbles xx 😘
Miss Bell, your life is NOT destined to be “entangled” by that man anymore. You are not a victim—HE is an abuser.
Read up on Trauma Bonds, that’s exactly what you’re experiencing & the feelings of desperation for him are caused from his abuse. It’s nothing do to with you being “weak,” as I used to think of myself.
The one and ONLY way to break free from his grip is No Contact. GOSO—Get Out Stay Out.
I don’t care who you are, what your situation, how dire things may be, No Contact is the only way.
Have you read HG’s book, “Getting Out”? (I think that’s the correct name.) Read it if you haven’t, implement your current exit plan, and get the hell out. I PROMISE life will only get worse.
All my best to you!!!!
Thanks. I have .I have read all of his books .I’ve even considered a consult with HG but I truly just don’t have the energy to put into, nor do I seem to be able to articulate properly in words what is happening here. I’ve been with this man 18 years and this last year has been an educational one to be sure .I have an exit plan. No contact will be good for me and I am ready. Home stretch now. But it won’t be easy. He’s already forewarned me that if I leave he will never stop hurting me and he will “ruin” me .I’m sure he knows he already has but it’s whatever .For now, I give him enough emotional fuel to where he isn’t amping up his machinations .it got real bad here for a few months. But not enough fuel for him to be satisfied with because he’s got a secondary and he’s busy with her for now. Guess he needs to lick his fucking wounds for a minute .
Miss Bell,
Don’t discount your ability to express yourself to HG if consulting with him is what you need. I doubt you’ll really have to say much to him—he understands. I have a friend like that, she just “knows” and I don’t have to explain. She’s a narc survivor.
And HG is JUST the Greater to consult if that assclown is telling you he’ll “ruin” you. As if. He pees out of a bladder just like the rest of us; he’s no one special. HG will lay him out; he’s more evil than that tool of yours will ever be. (Sorry HG, it’s just true)
Ok, so you *must* gather the strength & contact HG. It doesn’t matter how weary you are. I’ve heard (don’t know) that HG is gentle and caring with his clients. I really don’t know of anyone else to help guide you through this.
Keep us posted. Now go make an appointment!!!!!!!
xoxo
That secondary could be very good for you, allowing you to get out while he’s not looking.
You do sound exhausted by this whole thing, but maybe you can put in just a little extra energy for your own well-being so that you can execute a perfect exit?
I have also been entangled for 19 years. I have just escaped, so hard to except his immediate new primary.
Starscape
Welcome. I know it must be hard, but try harder to remember that the immediacy and difference in his choice of primary is not a reflection on you, it’s his disorder requiring it of him. You did nothing wrong and could not have changed it. She will not make him happier and you do not want to be in a competition to see who can withstand his abuse better. In the end that’s all it can ever be.
I read your site everyday. I’m entangled. He’s a higher. I’m too tired to even tell my story let alone ask you to answer questions. But I read your site everyday as I sit here in shock and confusion watching him unmask. You could explain this a hundred times. I understand but I never will. Have an exit plan. Let’s hope it’s always darkest before the dawn?
Miss Bell
Keep reading and do join in when you feel up to it. I promise the heavy blanket of fog will lift.
Thank you. I’m here .just very overwhelmed.
do not unmask the narc. do not do it. play dumb and escape. it’s better if u do not unmask him. you are safer. play dead.
In a slightly different context: when you know you’ve been healed enough, you go back to your life and put the past to rest.
This site has been a lifesaver, but I’ve been feeling less and less attached to this place lately and I just wanted to say goodbye and thanks to HG and all of you one more time.
You are most welcome and I wish you well. Ensure you spread the word of my work.
Morning Sun
It’s been a pleasure. Take care.
Goodbye Morning sun and good luck! Maybe we will see you when you get an e-mail hoover for a new article/poll.
hahaha… indeed.
Dear Morning sun,
Another little babe flies the nest
Spread those beautiful wings lovely one
Hugs n best wishes
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
The Golden man from Eden, HG Tudor.
What good advice, I would have liked to know all this, so long ago.
It would have saved me so much agony…
Even today, I don’t know like that day, when the final discard happened and zero contact began, I look back and so many years have passed.
I can only say: “Miraculously I don’t know how it happened”. Well, I didn’t know it was zero contact, and nothing about it.
A little before the discard, I met my current partner, a divine entity that has been with me ever since.
H.G., do you think the appearance of my partner had something to do with my final discard?
I guess it happened for several reasons:
My exhaustion
Your tedium, boredom and boredom
Lack of fuel, since I didn’t even have gout.
New primary supplements
New interests in mine.
Other small details
Because thinking about it coldly after reading and understanding. The explanations he gave me, for the final discard, were not very rational… Nowadays, thinking about it coldly, it sounds like a cheap excuse.
Scuses that I now accept as a gift.
You comment that relationships with narcissists are for life.
It’s not true, that when we know everything about the subject, we are killing the character created by the narcissist. To the character we fell in love with one day, even though in order to do this we have to sacrifice ourselves…?
We are metaphorically killing this character and therefore this would not be the end of everything without dying in reality …
Because I think I remember that in one of your books you mention that when the victim knows reality. The victim looks at the narcissist in a different way and the emotional attention is not produced or at least not as exacerbated as it was.
Therefore, the narcissist is not interested because you are a defective product.
Would this be the definitive end of the Narcissist’s interest in the victim? (The broken toy that no longer produces fuel….).
In the case of the Empathic / Super Empathic / Codependent, something similar happens, because in my case when I know the whole process nothing is the same anymore.
Yes, I can feel sorry, but it’s not that kind of pain anymore.
Memories may surface, but they are no longer remembered that way now they are analyzed and under analysis these are no longer the same.
The knowledge poured here and in your books is the philosopher’s stone, a simple touch of this stone is transformed.
The pain becomes somewhat compassionate.
Resentment becomes something charitable and indulgent.
Rage, in tranquillity and serenity.
Hatred gradually disappears.
In my particular case, my narcissist was my first sentimental relationship, my first (illusory) and unique love. It was a beautiful dream that turned into a nightmare, but when the daylight came, I woke up.
I will keep the first part of the dream, because that character was perfect, but already knowing that it was simply a pantomime…
It would have been nice if it really existed.
Entering into a process of mourning.
No such thing as a final discard. Your disengagement will have been caused by a disengagement trigger, see the article about the same.
H.G. could you help me with this post that you mention, that I can’t locate…
I’m interested in reading it.
Just use the search function.
HG
If you use disengagement trigger it pulls up this article.
https://narcsite.com/2018/11/21/the-emotional-sea-the-post-disengagement-escape-battle-part-one-2/
See the article about to be published.
Ha ha ha…when I saw the article, I laughed and thought: well, there it is.
Looks like the staff meeting at HGU must have been cancelled this afternoon! The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. That amused me.
MB
Please read: Why Do We Cancel Staff Meetings?
Control = safety and confusion keeps you into situ and providing fuel (amusement).
I know K! I worked for a real d-bag narc. (NOT one I admired from a distance either!) You had to be summoned for the meeting ahead of time so his precious time wasn’t wasted. He had chairs lined up outside his office for visitors and attendees. We would sit there looking at each other like wtf. Why were we called if he isn’t ready? You wait and wait. Start wondering, is he asleep in there or what? Can’t we just go back to our desks and work until he IS ready? After an hour of waiting and half hour after time to go home, he would have his assistant tell us the meeting was canceled citing he was late for another appointment. Really? Yep, he did just do that because he pays you so he owns you.
JG
You write with such pathos, and you express yourself beautifully…
“thinking about it coldly, it sounds like a cheap excuse.
Excuses that I now accept as a gift”
So well put.
“It would have been nice if it really existed.
Entering into a process of mourning.”
Such understatement!
Again, so well put.
J.G
That article pulls up quickly if you type: five reasons into the search function on the upper right.
Thank you for keeping it simple for us HG. It doesn’t need to be complicated. We don’t need to overthink it. We just do it. When we know, we go.
It really is that simple! I stayed and endured hell for so long in denial that I knew. I even thought I was mistaken?? I mean, one human being can’t possibly be that messed up right? Certainly not one that looked so good and was so responsible and well employed?? I scratched my head like an idiot for years. My latest “romantic endeavor”—just under 2 weeks. Why? Thanks HG! You gave me the tools to listen to my gut.
Doesn’t it seem like the majority of narcissists are the first born? I was googling narcissists and testosterone and came across cortisol- if a pregnant woman is stressed out, she can release cortisol. That’s very interesting to me since I actually wanted an annulment and ended up pregnant instead with my first child. I wasn’t exactly thrilled about being stuck in a marriage and giving up my youthful life dreams. My father warned me about how my emotions could effect the baby’s too. My baby was born without much emotion, I wasn’t happy during the pregnancy. I was warm and loving after she was born, but maybe the damage was already done. I hate to say my own daughter is one of them, but I know she is. My second daughter came along right after her, and I just went ahead with a divorce that time anyway. She was born happy.
Testosterone- I was wondering if somatics have high levels of it, also because they’re so hyper, and don’t sleep much. And it turns out they do. High achievers and narcissists do have high levels. There wasn’t anything posted differentiating somatics and cerebrals on those studies. Men and women both have it.
Just thought that was interesting.
Kel
I don’t know about the narc normally being a first-born. While I do know some who were first born, I also know just as many who were the baby in the family. I also know narcs from the middle of their family. A lot of families have multiple narcs. My Pretzel is the oldest of 5 children, but he has two brothers who are also narcs. They were 2nd and 4th born out of 5.
Right, but the point really is the
mother’s stress releasing cortisol during the pregnancy.
I didn’t say all, but I personally notice a majority of first borns- hence why I said “Doesn’t it seem like “. My mother, my brother, my daughter, and HG (not counting a stepbrother?). My somatic boss was middle child born 15 months after his brother who sounds like he could be a cerebral narc for his intelligence and talk of suicide and lack of physical care.
Kel
Do you think it may seem like that because the oldest and youngest seem to get the lion’s share of attention? Expectation especially from the oldest, middles get lost in the crowd and the youngest is the last bastion of hope and leaves the nest empty so is clucked over also?
In my dad’s family of five boys, first two were narcs. Between sis and I, she is younger and she is N, MR elite, I believe, though not great at it. His older brother, the middle of 3 kids is the most N seeming. Obnoxious. I’ve seen youngest female be very N in a big family.
Just thinking, cool question.
WS,
Thanks for this…”my” narcissist is a middle child, and he left his family at age 16 to get his university education, many states away from his family (he’s an Elite/Greater).
I’m not sure what I think about birth order, but in his particular case, he was not a compliant son. He was super smart/stubborn and bucked “the system.” He was raised in a very uptight religious family (Amish-like), and he was the son who refused to be “broken” by his father. He stood up for his siblings, but he paid dearly for it. He has shared some painful stories of his upbringing with me, and his (empath) younger brother backs up his recollections.
He (the narcissist) covers up for his upbringing now — sugar-coating it — saying his Mom/Dad were “good people,” who did the best they could. But something happened that did break him, during adolescence, and I have some clues now on that… any advice to how I approach this? I know he is in denial, but I don’t know how to gently push forth on his parents. He trusts me, about as much as anyone.
Thanks, for any insights.
Caroline is Fine
“he was not a compliant son. He was super smart/stubborn and bucked « the system.”
That describes my Pretzel as well.
I don’t think my Pretzel is in denial about his early years. I’ve always thought he had a good understanding of it and how it has warped him. He rarely talks about it, just drops little snippets every so often. He never would want to discuss any of it. At best just want it acknowledged.
I’m sure Pretzel trusts me, too, as much as he trusts anyone – although he doesn’t really “trust” anyone. Lol! But that doesn’t mean he wants to talk about horrible things. For instance I know he had a lot of physical abuse from his dad. But that’s as far as Pretzel is willing to share – and he never actually came out and said it in actual words.
The problem is that these memories and the associated fears connected with them are too painful, fearful for him to even really think much about, much less discuss with others. He doesn’t want to bring to the surface anything that makes him feel weak and helpless. His narcissism he’s adapted as a defense strategy prevents it.
I don’t ever push on my Pretzel to reveal anything he would consider hurtful or shameful. My approach is more to focus on who he really is now – warts and all – and that I accept, value and respect him.
Kel, I have read the same thing about the stress during pregancy affecting babies from Brain Rules for Babies. With my first born, my son, I made sure that I was not stressed out and limited my interactions with my stepdaughters because I was following that book. He was born and he was like an angel. So easy and when he woke up he was smiling while looking at his crib mobile. We loved videotaping him early in the morning. He only cried when hungry. Then with my daughter, I didn’t know that I was pregnant with her yet and I visited the Phils. and stayed with my mom. I got so mad all the time and then I found out that I was pregnant. I got even more angry because she may have screwed up my baby too with all of the anger. The book said the stress affects the fetus more during first and third trimester. The cortisol does affect the wiring or neurological development of the brain. I’m not sure if I’m remembering this correctly but the amygdala might get slightly bigger too. So my daighter was born and she has been feisty feom day one. But so far I don’t think that she’s a narc because she loves to kiss and hug all of us in the family. But she dominates her older brother so much.
This article might be helpful too.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/effects-of-prenatal-stress-can-affect-children-into-adulthood-16332
But maybe your mom’s behavior has also influenced your daughter. Maybe she just got bad habits from your mom but she’s not a narc. Narcs are bad influence to kids.
Kel, I have re-read the Brain Rules and didn’t see about the size of amygdala being bigger from prenatal stress. I looked it up and found articles about studies that show that. I have mixed up in my memory the sources. Here’s one article, it says that the size of amygdala only increases in girls and not in boys.
“After accounting for the effects of potential confounding pre- and postnatal factors, higher maternal cortisol levels in earlier but not later gestation was associated with a larger right amygdala volume in girls (a 1 SD increase in cortisol was associated with a 6.4% increase in right amygdala volume), but not in boys. Moreover, higher maternal cortisol levels in early gestation was associated with more affective problems in girls, and this association was mediated, in part, by amygdala volume.”
https://www.pnas.org/content/109/20/E1312
I have read other articles that fetal brain development can be most greatly affected by stress during the first trimester. Unfortunately for my daughter, that was when I was staying at my mom’s house for two weeks and she got me so angry so many times. Ine of her provocations was always being noisy at night like vacuuming or watching TV or doing other noisy activities which kept my son awake and thus made my vacation in the Phils. horrible because of the lack of sleep that she was causing him. But the goood news is that the brain’s wiring goes on after the baby’s birth. When the baby is made to feel safe, the baby will produce less and less stress hormones. I have to say that she has already improved dramatically. The book said that for women, the brain’s development doesn’t finish until their early twenties. It is later for men. So nurture still has a lot of effect.
I think the key words that I saw you say were “kind and generous”. Since your daughter is kind and generous, I don’t think that she’s a narc. I learned from Caroline R about Helen Fisher’s four temperament types and the Director type has a lot of testosterone. My husband is one and he has a lot of narcissistic traits, assertive, competitive, confident, strong personality. But he’s not a narcissist. And you’re right about the link of high testosterone and narcissism. Psychopaths have higher testosterone levels than people who are not psychopaths. But people can have also be high in testosterone Director types of personality as well. And also, we get habits from people who were around us. So she may have also picked up narcissistic or self-destructive habits from your mom but she’s not a narcissist herself. She’s still young and she can still learn and change those habits. But I don’t think that she’s a narcissist. Just my opinion.
Kel,
High levels of testosterone cause people to be less empathic, so I read, it doesn’t matter whether the narc is a somatic or a cerebral.
I assume cerebrals are the most intelligent (in the aspect of learning) and somatics the less intelligent, therefor they focus on their appearances more. Elites have both, intelligence and good looks to exploit.
I was extremely nervous when I was pregnant with my eldest. I also dreamed the same dream a hundred times. In my dream I would have to look after animals or children and somehow I forgot to feed them so they died. I dreamed this over and over. A sign of insecurity and anxiety, wondering if I would be good enough to raise children I guess.
The delivery was pure horror and I had an out-of-body experience and a caesarean. My son was very nervous and wanted to be with me 24/7, he also suffered from eczema. He definitely lacks emotions, but is in no way really malignant. I can’t find out if he is a narcissist yet and I can only hope that my love will prevent him from ever becoming malignant.
I am dying to know what really really really causes narcissism. For now I think it is biolocial and it can turn malignant if there is abuse during childhood (not necessarily from parents). That’s how I feel about it. But of course I could be terribly wrong.
Kel, is your daughter malignant? Can I ask how old she is and how the relationship with her sister is?
Hi 2SF,
My daughter is a kind and generous person, she isn’t mean. She mostly seeks attention, and she’s a hypochondriac- doctors have gotten mad at her about it, but she doesn’t believe them. She has done some pretty stupid things and gotten sympathy from people, but not from me- she’s gotten my anger and disappointment in her over those things. I’m someone she looks up to, someone who loves her no matter what, who’s always there for her. I might roll my eyes on a phone call with her or bite my tongue, but I respect her.
She’s really an amazing person, helpful to others, giving. She’s very good at whatever she does. She’s always risen to management positions at a young age, and without a degree since she dropped out of school. She’s gone back to college now though, calls me before exams all nervous she hasn’t studied for it, then she texts me afterwards that she got an A. She once sewed an elaborate Halloween costume by hand, first time ever, and it looked like a seamstress made it! She is very sexually blunt, dresses a little risqué sometimes.
My narc mother sort of hoarded my daughter and had a great deal of influence over her, which my daughter liked a lot as a child because she got her way all the time and anything she wanted as my mother seeked to manipulate and control her. Really I was never sure which one of them manipulated the other worse. I would step in to stop things sometimes like getting my daughter to speak words not gibberish, sitting her down and telling her she’s intelligent in school as my mom wanted her to believe otherwise, disciplining her as a teen, and having many huge arguments with my mother over her.
What I can tell you is, teach your child they’re not anymore important than anyone else, and watch out because they’re very convincing liars, very smooth manipulators. You need a lot of patience. Even now, as soon as I’m thinking she’s all grown up and cool, and we’re at a great adult point, we’re not.
Hard to explain, she’s a great person, just needs attention and is usually a little dramatic about getting it. Just teach your child right from wrong, how to care about others first and they should be nice kind people and not malignant.
Kel
Is she a narcissist or just narcissistic? I may have missed some things you’ve discussed about her but I havent had any alarms go off yet about her being an actual narcissist.
I was actually thinking the same NA!
2SF, my daughter is 34, her sister is 33. She and her sister were always competitive with each other. Her sister grew up doing things the right way, and now is married, two children, house, doing really well. My first daughter’s gotten herself in trouble trying to compete with her sisters accomplishments without going through the process to get there. Taking shortcuts meant buying a house and losing it, marrying the wrong guy, but child wise she won’t compete, she says she takes too much medication to carry a child. They got along well growing up, but there was always something standing between them. They were opposites, always in different directions. Her sister avoids answering calls from her as she’s busy with her kids and doesn’t have time for drama. But when they do connect, they usually enjoy it. They live in different states and my n-kid misses us. She has a fiancé now, and he’s a great guy. She always lands on her feet no matter what happens in life.
oops… *biolocial ?? biological I meant to say
Kel, your daughters sound like daughters 🙂 I mean I don’t have girls, but my sister has two (and 2 sons) and my friends have a daughters. Girls really are more difficult to raise so it seems than boys (but of course there are people who will disagree on this).
Doesn’t sound like your daughter is doing bad in school, that must be a relief. Dramatically asking for attention sounds like my niece, so I get what you are saying.
Most siblings are opposites, not? I’m happy for you they do get along well though.
To be honest, my boys are not causing any problems at the moment. It’s a good atmosphere in our house, I’m very happy with that.
Take care Kel, if you love your girls no matter what and you are supportive than that is all you can do. They will make mistakes, they are human. Every child has the right to make their own mistakes and live their life the way they want to. We do not own them. xx
2SF,
Quoting:
“ High levels of testosterone cause people to be less empathic, so I read,…”
You do not give the source of your statement that arrives to that simple conclusion. There is plenty of research that has been made ( and still taking place )about this topic. It is not just testosterone the only hormone that plays a role in this process. Namely the hormone cortisol in conjunction with testosterone plays a huge role. If you read the existing scientific studies and the conclusions they arrive to, one cannot state that there is a direct correlation between testosterone and empathy. Furthermore , as the studies show all the effects these hormones have on the brain and behavior are all individually variable.
“In men with higher than average testosterone levels, low cortisol predicted low empathy scores, whereas high cortisol predicted high empathy scores. This association was not observed for men with testosterone levels below the mean, in whom cortisol showed no association with empathy.
A high testosterone, low cortisol profile has been linked with competitiveness and aggressive behaviour. This profile has also been associated with psychopathy, a mental condition defined by anti-sociality, egotism, and impaired empathy.
In contrast, men with high testosterone levels and high cortisol in this study displayed increased empathy. “
Zilioli, S., Ponzi, D., Henry, A. et al. (2015) Testosterone, Cortisol and Empathy: Evidence for the Dual-Hormone Hypothesis. Adaptive Human Behavior and Physiology.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282603670_Testosterone_Cortisol_and_Empathy_Evidence_for_the_Dual-Hormone_
Joe Herbert. John van Geest Centre for Brain Repair, Department of Clinical Neurosciences, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, United Kingdom. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2018.00101/full
(Interesting study about testosterone and cortisol and the role they play in sexuality, aggression, competitiveness, risk-taking both in men and women.)
2.” I am dying to know what really really really causes narcissism. For now I think it is biolocial …”
This is a surprising comment( personally finding it somehow provoking) when you are actually participating in a site that thoroughly explains this among other things- but somehow you have missed it. There is much more about the subject of NPD through other sources . First you have to research, read and learn to compare the different sources and then you will probably find out that the central knowledge given here concerning NPD is corroborated by those sources.
Hopefully you will find the provided links useful in case you want to acquire knowledge about this topic or at least to awaken your curiosity for doing it.
SuperXena,
I don’t know where your dismissive tone is coming from, it’s not that I disagreed with Kel, not at all, I just told her what I read about testosterone and that I was very nervous during pregnancy myself (meaning most likely high CORTISOL), guess you missed that? I also suffered from Cushing Syndrome myself, so I’ve read lots and lots about the effect of Cortisol,
There was totally no provocation in my comment.
No narcissism expert is yet 100% sure about the cause, that’s why I stated “For now I think it is biological and it can turn malignant if there is abuse during childhood (not necessarily from parents)”, that’s not saying what HG writes isn’t true.
Thanks for the links SuperXena, you can relax now. I guess you misunderstood me, which is probably due to my poor English.
2SF,
Thank you for your reply .
1. My comment was not related to any other comment but merely to the statement that you have read that there is a direct correlation between levels of testosterone. I was just pointing out ( and giving you the sources) that there are scientific studies that reach to other conclusions. My comment was not intended as to be dismissive although I can understand why you perceived it that way .
2. As for the causes of NPD as I understand the sources ( at least the ones I have studied including this) that speak about the causes of NPD , state that NPD is a result of the combination of both genetic and trauma during childhood. As far as I am concern the different sources ( including this) agree on these causes. Unless you can provide another source that refutes this. It would be (for me at least)very interesting to read about it and gain more knowledge. I never implied or concluded that you did not find the information given here as truthful.
I believe however that the different sources differ in their analysis of HOW this “disorder” manifests in different persons and classifying them in different groups.Before finding this site, I had just found the classification between Covert and overt narcissism and Malignant narcissist (comorbidity between NPD and ASPD). That is why I found the classification in schools and cadres of narcissists given here unique being more precise and accurate.
As for English not being your first language, well we are two: English isn’t my first language either. Sometimes it is difficult to express oneself in a foreign language. I understand that.
Best wishes.
Thanks for your response and explanation SuperXena. There are an awful lot of sources once you start Googling and who will say what the truth is? I usually follow a few scientific websites on Twitter and a few well-known psychology websites and I can only hope what they tell me is true.
I agree with you mentioning the uniqueness and accuracy of this weblog. Best wishes to you too xx
You are welcome 2SF.
Speaking of….
I’ll be 365 days NC on January 31st—one of the biggest milestones of my *entire* life. Pregnancy and obtaining my Masters degree didn’t require this much self-discipline and tenacity. LAWD.
HG, you’re a big reason why I’ve made it this far so tell me…in your opinion, what’s the BEST way to celebrate this achievement? (All other posters, please send ideas as well! Remember, I’m NC so no suggestions to tell him to go F’ himself. Which I’ve already thought of.)
69R
Do something that you enjoy but do not get to do often and gift someone one of my books.
In typical narc fashion, you had to bring attention to yourself, hum? So very narcish of you. But I got a good giggle out of it.
Ok, recommendation taken. Which book would you recommend for someone ‘just now’ discovering her husband is a narc? She wants to meet me for coffee Sat as she needs to talk—she knows.
Please remember my anniversary on the 31st and be sure to congratulate yourself—the day is all about you anyway. *snicker*
In typical narc fashion, you had to bring attention to yourself, hum? So very narcish. But I got a good giggle out of it.
Ok, recommendation taken. Which book would you recommend for someone ‘just now’ discovering her husband is a narc? She wants to meet me for coffee Sat as she needs to talk—she knows.
Please remember my anniversary on the 31st and be sure to congratulate yourself—the day is all about you anyway.
In typical narc fashion, you had to bring attention to yourself, hum? So narc-ish of you.
Ok, recommendation taken. Which book would you recommend for someone ‘just now’ discovering her husband is a narc? She wants to meet me for coffee Sat as she needs to talk—she knows.
Please remember my anniversary on the 31st and be sure to congratulate yourself—the day is all about you anyway.
Manipulated, Fuel and Red Flag.
Thank-you for answering 69Revolver’s question – I’ve wondered too; what books are best for someone who first suspects their partner is a narcissist. I have directed one friend and one acquaintance to your work, both of whom are clearly dealing with a narcissist.
Is there any particular article (or book) that you recommend to professionals in the helping fields? I find when I try to explain to them about narcissism they get a little defensive because they already have their theories about what narcissists ‘look like’ to them…I usually don’t push the subject because clearly they are close minded.
Valid question with a difficult answer. If the professional is interested (and many are – I have several who refer clients to me for consultations) then they will read anyway, if they are not I do not see that any particular article will break through their close-mindedness.
Thank-you for your forthright answer.
I also think that sometimes professionals don’t have time to read your work at length.
What I have found that makes an impression on them is when they see how much better I am doing, personally and emotionally, since when they first met me. If they inquire; I explain it is because I have engaged in educating myself and now understand who am I dealing with, what I went through and my own role in that experience and that I am now able to focus on healing – as a result of that reaching that understanding. And then if they appear receptive I will direct them here.
It’s as if they will not accept the words of a layperson, regardless of the level of that person’s understanding, unless they can witness the effects of that understanding before their very eyes.
I’ve forwarded some of HG’s articles to my trauma therapist. Her comment: “He’s right on!!!”
People (therapists included) don’t want to accept that they could be duped by a narc. We want to pigeonhole narcs into devil-beings who are plainly visible by their horns, pitchforks, and Charles Manson swastikas; however, narcs are generally charming, empathetic (whatever), successful, attractive, friendly, trustworthy, etc. Now what a dichotomy THAT is. Day-um.
A Mental Health professional does NOT want to admit that they could be conned by a narc. Ohhhhhhh but they so can! It’s not a weakness in education, it’s a weakness in experience. No one sees a narc coming at them. In the Bible, even Satan is known as The Angel of Light. There ya go.
Oh, go on and be close-minded at your own peril people. Narcs are EVERYWHERE. One has already crossed your path and you didn’t even know it.
69R,
I’m glad to hear that you therapist was open to reading some of HG’s articles. And I agree with much of what you said.
” A Mental Health professional does NOT want to admit that they could be conned by a narc. Ohhhhhhh but they so can! It’s not a weakness in education, it’s a weakness in experience.”
Except that last sentence – it can be a weakness in *both* education and experience. And in a lot of cases I believe it is.
69Revolver
Get a massage or tickets to the theater/symphony and take someone who is fun to be with.
I WAS actually thinking of massage! Thanks.
My pleasure 69Revolver
a massage sounds great!
The last massage I had was given to me as a bday present by the narc. Well hell, Imma give one to mySELF just because…. well….because he’s an asshat. LOL!
And I’ll have an extra dirty vodka martini before the massage just to put my signature seal of approval on it.
Thanks again K!
69Revolver
I took a weeks vacation, alone. Spoiled myself.
Ha ha, that made me laugh. Very well done 69R, you can be proud of yourself!
If I were you, to celebrate I’d take my 69 R and play a game of Russian roulette, just make sure the N gets the bullet.
2SF
Not bad, not bad. But fortunately for me, he lives 1700 miles away so Russian roulette isn’t feasible. I feel as though I had it a bit easier than most —none of the hoovers were in person. Every minute still sucked though. Arse.
His son lives in my state and he stays with him for 2-weeks every Cmas so I know he’s here—only 1.5 hrs away. I’m on freakin high alert 24/7, even when I pull in and out of my garage.
So, I’m thinking target practice with a full magazine will do the trick for now. Every single one of those bullets will hit my “target,” straight on.
Peace out Narc. ✌🏻
Perhaps a ‘powder letter’ instead of a bullet? 😉
Is his son the reason why/how you met? Did you meet in person at all or was it an online affair only?
So I guess holidays are almost over and he will be gone by the weekend? Take care 69!
We have the same political views. We met on FB through a political friend we both shared.
Over our 5-yr span we saw each other every 4-6 weeks.
Yes, by this weekend, he should be back to his 1700 miles away from me. Huge sigh of relief by Monday.
Well, glad he’s gone and you can relax now. Take care 69R!
69R
Book a great vacation. By yourself. Somewhere you’ve always wanted to go. Stay in a great hotel. Don’t wear a watch (until time to catch a plane). Eat when and where you want. See whatever attractions, shows, or excursions you feel like. No checking with anyone else on what they want to do or where they want to go. Wear whatever you want. Don’t worry or feel self concious that you’re alone – you’re never going to see these people again. Enjoy it to the fulllest. You will learn or remember so much about who you are and what you like. Enjoy it to the fullest. It will be the best gift you ever give yourself.
NA, so good to hear from you. I had hoped you’d respond with ideas for me. Your vacation suggestion is *perfect.*
I’ve never told anyone my bucket list vacation destination—don’t know why? The narc never knew either, not that I kept it from him. 🤷♀️
But since it’s just you & me, let me share with you…..
I’m going to travel to The Retreat at Blue Lagoon Iceland. Included in my stay per day will be a four hour pass to the milky blue lagoon water which has an avg temp of 99°. Oh…….just, heaven. The minerals will soothe my dry skin.
I’m going to make spa reservations which will include: an in-water body massage in geothermal seawater (WHOA); a body scrub of silica, algae, and minerals; drinks in the “Subterranean Nest,” which is situated in a lava canyon; drinking all the ice cold glacier water I want; and, dining at the Moss Restaurant built into a lava cliff with all kinds of funky Icelandic food that I can’t even pronounce.
And last but not least, I can ONLY visit between September-April for my best chance of viewing the Aurora Borealis, a lifelong dream for a girl from the South who’s only experienced sun & extreme heat.
And I require snow. I know, I know… that part will require a reservation.
My dream vaca won’t happen this January 31 but it WILL happen in this lifetime.
NA, thanks for suggesting, and allowing me to share, my someday dream.
xoxo
69R
Thats a great dream, now lets take it from dream to goal, and instead of throwing it the someday bucket, put it on a calendar within a reasonable time frame. You can do this and should. Thank you for sharing it.
PS Ok for now just book a 1/2 day spa to get you through and realize you need the dream. Enjoy!
WordPress is allowing me to write this comment but not hit post, so sorry if it posts twice because I’m going to try again………
That sounds perfect 69R. I was almost gonna ask if I could join you, but that would spoil it all. Enjoy it to the fullest whenever you go!
Narc Angel, I’ve been having a LOT of problems with Word Press lately as well. Everything is wonkey. And it defaults to some random acct that is not even mine when I reply to comments now.
HG, you having issues on your end?
Maybe an upgrade has bugs? I rebooted my phone & same stuff is happening. 🤷♀️
No issues here.
69Revolver
I am missing comments even though I subscribe to all. Have only found some through going back to articles. I try to review the comments quickly before I delete the post but am not always successful. Being able to key a comment but having the post button frozen is no longer an issue. I’m going with Gremlins. The popularity of HG’s blog is taxing the WordPress engine.
congrats!! What about buying yourself a hot dress and going to the salon to look fabulous? u will feel great and sexy and super new. congratulations!
Amanda, I have TWO hot dresses that I’ve missed wearing because I could no longer fit in them. Since I left the narc, I’ve lost 32 (!) lbs. All I did during my time with him was comfort eat. And drink.
Now, I’ve shed the heaviness in my mind and on my body.
My two dresses are back in business!! Heh
Thanks for the suggestion!
69R
And away I went! You saved me absolute freaking misery.