Ice Cold With Alex
I had a girlfriend called Alex. She was a vivacious creature who was very much into her gymnastics and I cultivated an interest in this after seeing her various tweets about attending competitions and her posts on Instagram. She was at least ten years younger than me and she had a delightful naivety about her. Although she was far from old, indeed she was very much in her youth, she was approaching the upper age limit for those who could be regarded as competitive in gymnastics. Similar to competitive swimming, the shelf-life of a female gymnast is not long.
Initially, I would drive her all around the country to the various competitions which she took part in. She was very good and often found herself amongst the medals. The rigorous routines began to have an effect on her body and on return to home it was often necessary for her to apply ice packs to reduce the swelling she suffered about her knees and ankles. Once I tired of her bubbly persona and incessant chatter about straddle press handstands,pike press to handstand from front stand and the Arabian doubles, I would prior to her competition remove any ice we had in the house. On return she would express her dismay at the lack of ice. I would volunteer to go and find some for her from the supermarket as she rested. I would go to the pub instead or go and visit Mary who was attracting my attentions around this time.
I would return empty-handed resulting in Alex not recovering quick enough and thereafter having to pull out of competitions. She would swear that she had purchase some ice only the day before but I would point out that she could not have done since we had none. That was a fact and with a confused look she would eventually accept the force of what I was saying. Unfortunately for her, she insisted on attending a competition when not fully recovered and ended up badly injuring her right knee. Her convalescence was such that she felt her confidence dry up and she was most reluctant to rejoin the competition. This pleased me as it meant my weekends were no longer being interrupted and as she was on crutches for a time it meant I was free to come and go and there was little she could do about it, being largely housebound. In order to show some semblance of caring for her, I would cook the evening meal for her on condition she fixed the drinks for us both. It was then I decided I would always drink Absolut vodka. On the rocks.
148 thoughts on “Ice Cold With Alex”
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I haven’t read this before.
Vodka. Yuck.
Even if you were to disclose what you are to her she wouldn’t know what that meant. I would have laughed not understanding what that would in tale. Can you imagine? Yes sheildmaden I shall destroy you and then shame you for it and laugh as you cry. So your in right?
Why do you assume she would not know what it meant if I told her? That is rather presumptuous.
HG, if you ever tell the Shieldmaiden about your narcissism and psychopathy and she accepts to continue the relationship, what would you advise her to do to deal with you (besides reading your work, treat you as a God and always say you are right)?
Seriously. I am sure there are many aspects to consider when dealing with you, but is there one thing you would consider as crucial for her to do to have a more solid relationship with you?
I will expand on this as and when that event occurs.
OK. Thanks HG. I look forward to reading about it.
HG,
May I ask (and more importantly will you answer please), why do you call her the “Shieldmaiden”?
Google it.
WiserNow,
I value every comment you’ve made in this section.
You are a mighty “stand-up” Empath… and your name perfectly suits you.
Ah, thank you very much Caroline-is-fine! That’s a lovely thing to say and I appreciate your kind thoughts. I value your comments very much as well, and everyone else’s too 🙂
In all honesty, WiserNow…the Greater in my life (my former BF) is saying almost all the same type of stuff to me that HG is professing to his newest person (freakishly so)…I am already “taken” in the romance department — but I am “simply” trying to get my former BF into therapy for his NPD, but he is already infatuated with the idea of us together again…it’s a lot to handle, and not something I should be involved in… like I cried today (not normal for me) – it was just all too much. I meant well, but I am struggling with feeling like I can make a Greater happy — but I can’t/won’t do that, so it’s useless. None of this is a game to me. It’s real.
So all THIS is doing for me (HG’s stuff) is making me feel that narcissists cannot change at all, and I say that as someone who usually feels like “love conquerors all”/am typically a very hopeful Empath.
I just need to get off this site & handle my own situation… because it’s getting too serious, and all this stuff doesn’t help at all.
Take care, everyone… be wise… be genuine… place logical boundaries.
~Caroline
Caroline,
I’m sorry to hear that you have been having a stressful time dealing with your former BF and all the difficult emotional push and pull that involves. It can be really mentally exhausting and takes over all your thoughts. It’s very hard to shift focus from all that and try to think logically. I’m sorry you are going through that.
You may be feeling stressed out because the prospect or potential of taking back your ex Greater narc BF is making your subconscious mind very agitated. I get the strong feeling that even the ‘threat’ of you being with him is making you recoil emotionally and feel anxious. Listen carefully to your emotions and don’t let your ex BF’s ideas or infatuation override what you feel.
If it all feels like it’s becoming too much, maybe it would help to give yourself time away from trying to make any decisions. I hope there’s no need to rush and for you to feel that there’s no other way but to resolve it all ‘now’. Give yourself time to relax and think through the various issues and allow yourself space to put it into a more manageable perspective that gives you a little more distance between what is happening and what your true feelings are. A few days (or weeks) to sleep on it may help your subconscious to mull everything over and come to a more relaxed space.
The most important thing is for you to take good care of yourself. Everyone else can wait. You are not responsible for getting your ex BF into therapy for his NPD. That’s his responsibility. Strengthen your boundaries and try to become very tuned in to what YOU really want. Those emotions are already inside you, you just have to tap into them, give yourself time and space and allow them to come to the surface.
All the best to you and take care too Caroline. HG and all of us commenters will still be here if and when you decide to return. Until then, best wishes! 🙂 Stay hopeful and genuine, and give yourself plenty of compassion. I hope everything starts to become easier and lighter for you xxx
Thank you, WiserNow…I appreciate your very kind & thoughtful comment. I should probably clarify, because I can see now how confusing my last few comments were (sorry about that)…
I’m not thinking of taking back my former narcissist BF (I’m with someone else romantically — which was probably unclear — but regardless, I would not ever again be in a romantic relationship with a narcissist).
What I am doing is working in conjunction with the narcissist’s family, to try to get him into therapy. I do not see the narcissist in person, but I do communicate with him. It’s at a new level of exchange, where he is talking to me about his childhood and his narcissistic traits. I’m no savior empath, so I’m truly not thinking that I can save him… but I have been thinking that he has great potential to save himself, in various ways. He knows he’s a narcissist and is highly intelligent and SEEMS at a point in his life where he wants to change some key things. He’s seemingly motivated for some good reasons.
It’s pretty hard to explain it all (and I can’t detail it on here anyway)… but I’m not in danger, in that I’ve got all kinds of boundaries/protections; however, I do feel increasingly concerned about his attachment/infatuation with me, which is a tricky aspect (but I realize is also part of what makes him open up with me). He treats me well and carefully… it’s a very strange dance we’ve got going, but I’ve seen potential positives. He’s a narcissist, so I’m not fooling myself. I can’t know what I just can’t know.
Some days I feel hopeful; other days, I feel like it may be useless. Ironically, observing just the small amount I have re: HG’s new situation makes me feel less hopeful about my ex-BF’s ability to change certain things (and, frankly, I’m uncertain if HG’s relationship is real – or an “object lesson” for us all… if real, I’m very concerned for that person… and yes, I see the irony in that).
My working in this way with my ex-BF (to state the obvious) is pretty “out there” for me to be doing, but I gave it a lot of thought and there was a significant amount of planning that went into it. I wanted to try… for him as much as for me, in how I may be able to use what I now know to help him make better choices.
I do trust myself to know when to stop this, if and when I need to for myself/any others.
Caroline,
I can see now that you have strong boundaries and logical thinking when it comes to your ex BF. That’s really good. I’m happy for you that you are not fooling yourself and can trust yourself. It seems you have a good handle on the situation and I’m definitely glad that you never again want to be romantically involved with a narcissist. Well done on your strength and determination.
I guess there’s always a small element of danger when you’re involved with a narcissist (in any manner) and I think I can sense your dilemma in still having involvement with your ex even though you have strong boundaries. It sounds like you see the positives and want to help him, and at the same time you want to keep a distance and you know that narcs don’t change easily. It’s a double-edged sword and it means you have to really be strong with your logical thinking while trying to help him as well. I hope it all turns out well for you and everyone all round.
Thanks, WiserNow…
I had to laugh (at myself) while reading your reply because yes, I do feel strong and measured on how I’m handling this, and my head is (usually!)screwed on tight (logic is a strength)… but, on the other hand, I do get that it’s fairly nutty of me to be involved with this + to feel that I can handle it…When I re-read what I detailed to you that I’m doing, I thought: “Gee, what could possibly go wrong here?” 🙂 But I truly appreciate your vote of confidence and understanding of me.
I do want to make a real, positive difference – whether I *can* or not remains to be seen; that’s largely out of my control. [HG feels I would benefit from a consult from him on this. How do I know? I’m psychic! (ha). No, but I’m fairly certain he knows the empath I am…I do, and it’s a good but complicated thing at times].
I’ll close this post by saying that if this ends in utter disaster, let’s just call it “Caroline’s Object Lesson.”
Yeah, that’s it – I was just showing you guys what *not* to do. I know, I know… you already knew. 😉
Hi HG,
I like Absolut vodka, too! If I drink the lemon flavor with 7-Up, I think of my friend, D—- and dancing at clubs with her. If I drink the mandarin flavor, I think of drinking it with fresh-squeezed oranges off the tree in California and my ex-boyfriend, who drove me crazy – but I sure did enjoy those oranges. He also brought me fresh lemons and limes and they were great with the lime or lemon flavors. Vodka is my favorite, even if no one cares. I like it all kinds of ways.
That girl, Alex was dumb not to be responsible for her own care and should not have let anyone else be. It’s difficult to feel sorry for her when she would have known for years the proper way to care for her body and didn’t apply that knowledge.
It is difficult for me to understand why you would want to be mean purposely, though, and I never will be able to. I have no desire to purposely hurt anyone.
Do you think that you will ever have a woman in your life who you know intimately that you will refrain from hurting?
I do.
HG
From Kate comment
“Do you think that you will ever have a woman in your life who you know intimately that you will refrain from hurting?”
Your comment
“I do.”
I have read many comments today, one being you believe your new interest is the “one” and will last. The doctors identify someone in your fuel matrix and you do not disagree, you have been instructed how to slow your thinking and responding to criticism.
I hope so.
We all need someone that understands us and I hope you can find a way to trust her enough to reveal what you are to her and she accepts this. I hope your right when you call her a Sheildmaiden.
“””I have read many comments today, one being you believe your new interest is the “one” and will last. The doctors identify someone in your fuel matrix and you do not disagree, you have been instructed how to slow your thinking and responding to criticism.”””
Is that true hg? You are still under the doctors care and they are advising you on your newest endeavor?
I still see them (though less often). They do not yet know of The Shieldmaiden but I am utilising my awareness and learning (some of which has come from the good doctors).
Hg, thank you for answering my question.
She also said this: “”..The doctors identify someone in your fuel matrix and you do not disagree…””
What does that mean?
Who said “The doctors identify someone in your fuel matrix and you do not disagree” ? I need a context as I do not see the previous posts in my moderation pane.
… every time.
I hope you find her
Do narcissists generally begin to resent what they must do to keep up the facade if it includes things they do not inherently enjoy?
Lessers do not tend to use a façade. Mid Rangers do, but do not realise they do, therefore there is no resentment. Greaters know but have no objection to doing so.
Based on experience, this article is best left to others. Discuss. I’ll just observe lol.
Hi HG, again, are the lesser and mid-rangers this deliberate in their actions, i.e. so calculated, or just the greater?
The Greater.
When Alex started sleeping in later to recover, and started to do worst with performance, did you start telling everyone that she,is a drunk?
No, that would not have worked, Anm.
So a mid-ranger would not hide the ice pack? So what would he do? My parent was a mid-ranger – definitely not a greater. Yet i remember, with hindsight, that she could be quite calculated …
My daughters father is like the Death Angel. When I was dating him, I always wondered why so many horrible things were happening to the people that were involved with him, and he loved to speak about these events. I found out the hard way what the connection was with all of these detrimental events.
Ooo. So cold blooded indeed! Whatever happened to the last girl, Kim I believe? And who’s the mystery newbie?
Kim who? The ew lady is The Shieldmaiden.
Um.. wasn’t Kim the ex- ipps?
There’s “an ew” lady too?
(Or is that me??)
I am just being nosey.
Nosey Rosie
HG,
Reading this and then thinking about your latest instagram posts where you’re proudly showing off your love-bombing of your latest “conquest” make me think you’re just a poor excuse for a human-being. And anyone posting comments to egg you on or make it look like you’re some kind of hero for doing it make me think the same way about *them* too.
All your talk about “perspectives” and “alternative realities” and “this is the way you were made”, etc etc is a way to cognitively understand and know your kind, but in the cold light of day when faced with the truth of what “life” is actually about, your “justifications” are just pitiful excuses that you don’t have the mental capability to face and work your way out of.
The short story is that your kind are psychologically inadequate and can’t lead fully open and socially positive, productive lives. That’s why you hide behind lies, facades and deception. You need to live in shadows because you fear the light. You ‘need’ empaths because that is the only way you can justify to yourself that somehow you have some kind of power. Empaths have more compassion, spirituality, faith and decency than the average person. They give people like you extra chances even though you don’t deserve them.
WiserNow – With respect, Narcissism is a Personality Disorder. Science demonstrates that we do not choose our personalities, it is simply not in our control.
It is logical that people with different personalities have differing perspectives as a result of their biopsychosocial influences.
Do you really think our focus should be about whether a narcissist should make changes in their behaviour or alter their perspective? I think not.
Our focus should be to be open minded, learn as much as we can about the lived experience of narcissism, draw upon HG’s expertise and generosity in sharing his wisdom with us to build our resistance and resilience.
Yes, HG is a narcissist but he is also a brilliant writer and nothing short of a genius (just saying).
They are cruel, terrible people. And they thoroughly enjoy it, eh HG?
Sarah,
My comment wasn’t telling anyone (HG included) how or what they should think. With respect, thanks for the lecture, but I don’t think I need it.
When I wrote my comment, I had a strong feeling I’d get responses like yours, but after some thought, that feeling didn’t make me refrain from writing it.
If you have been reading this blog for a while, you may have seen my other comments, where I have thanked HG many times for his practical advice and helpful insights. I have also praised his great writing on numerous occasions.
My mind is open enough to be able to both praise AND criticise him. I don’t feel any need to apologise for that or explain myself, because I would think it’s fairly obvious why I’m saying something. In fact, I find comments like yours tiring. Sorry, but I find them exhausting to be honest. I feel like just saying “live and let live”, but I feel that would be rude and wouldn’t help to clarify my point or promote better understanding between us.
Imagine you were a student and had a brilliant teacher, someone who taught you new ideas and was able to impart wonderful insights that helped you to see things differently. Of course, you would be very grateful and would admire your teacher’s intelligence.
Now imagine if you saw the same teacher stalk and assault another student in his spare time after class. If one day, that teacher happened to be arrested by police for his actions, would you go to the police and say, “Officers, you need to have open minds. He has a personality disorder and he had no choice but to assault that girl. You need to change your focus and think logically and not apprehend or criticise him, because he is a brilliant teacher and I happen to think he’s a genius”.
I don’t think you would. You would probably be grateful that there were people who cared about the safety and well-being of unsuspecting students. You would care about your own safety and would appreciate that you could now walk home from class more safely with one less predator to worry about.
By all means, read and become more resistant and resilient from HG’s writing. But please don’t forget that his “personality disorder” is dangerous to others. If you were one of his target victims, he wouldn’t care about your thoughts or safety. You would be an appliance to him and he would be delighted at the prospect of exploiting you. That’s why I said he was a poor excuse for a human being and his actions should not be applauded or minimised because he happens to provide knowledge and have a popular blog.
If you don’t think I should have said that, it’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion, just as we all are.
A fair and measured comment.
Brilliant, Wisernow. A serial killer doesn’t have to be actively killing people to help the police!
Wiser now, I agree with you. And I am not here to protect HG or to justify him. I feel sorry about any of his new prospects. But I think it’s time for us empaths to take advantage of narcs the same way they did with us. Use him, and use his insightful advice. You need to have friends in hell sometimes. That doesn’t mean you need to like him, date him, agree with him. But learn from him. He, at least, is the only narc doing something unprecedented: he’s telling you how to fight his own kind. Don’t get mad at him, don’t judge him. There’s no point. Be grateful to learn and keep on living, he will do the same.
PS: I don’t follow him on Instagram, what’s so interesting?
Sweetest Perfection,
Thank you for your comment and for the advice. I think I can say that 99% of the time, I do learn from HG and I do find his articles and advice very helpful. I am very grateful for this blog and all the comments we all share. It is helpful and yes, I have used HG’s work to improve my own situation.
All of that doesn’t entirely stop me from thinking that his actions are abhorrent and despicable, and there are times I feel like saying that out loud. All of the logical thinking on this blog and the “gratefulness” we all show to HG can at times spill over to people thinking he’s still that poor little abused boy, or some kind of sexy lovebombing hero, even when he openly describes how he is grooming victims and abusing them. Personally, I object to that.
On HG’s instagram, there are currently photos of him having some lavish dinners with his new “victim”, who he calls the “Shieldmaiden”. The dinners and other outings are all part of his lovebombing of her. He seems very fuelled up and delighted and proud of himself about the fact he is grooming his latest victim. I see that and I can’t help thinking of the emotional abuse he plans to inflict. I feel sad and concerned for the girl who is being deceived and having her trust and emotional ‘self’ violated in that way.
Thank you for your observations WN and I am pleased my work has proven of such use. You are, naturally, perfectly entitled to express your opinion about my behaviour and indeed most people would agree that elements of it are abhorrent. As for the Shieldmaiden, she’s no fool, believe me and given my new understanding from my increased awareness, her innate brilliant ability and the input of the good doctors, who’s to say that the well-worn path will be travelled on this occasion?
HG,
For the sake of both yourself and the Shieldmaiden, my emotional thinking would like to see you turning a corner and having increased awareness. I hope you do genuinely want to change your ways and stay off the well-worn path.
My logical thinking – which is now quite robust because of you, by the way – and all the reading I’ve done about narcissists, tells me they don’t change and that ‘no contact’ is the best option. My own experience with narcs reinforces this belief too.
HG, I wish you well, but I think I’ll stick to my logical thinking for now. Time will tell.
Time will indeed tell, but I am pleased to see your adherence to logic in the meanwhile.
Thank you HG. My logical thinking is mostly based on you and your blog and books, so you have yourself to thank for that. Still, I hope you can change your ways. Good luck 🙂
HG, I’m rooting for you to keep blazing a new trail forward. That well-worn path has been leading you around in circles for too long!
HG
1. Did you consider your previous IPPSs fools at the time that you began your relationships with them? I am asking seriously – did you enter those relationships thinking they could be easily fooled, or are you looking back now and seeing that compared to this new prospect that they were, and that is what is allowing you to believe that this time it will work?.
2. To your mind presently, is the possibility of this new dynamic working out more to do with your perceived difference in her (in relation to the others) or in some difference that has occurred in you? Percentage wise to be specific.
1. No. They made a wise choice (for me anyway) in becoming the IPPS.
2. Both. 70/30.
HG
I appreciate your response as always.
Pleasure.
HG, I find your answer to NA’s second question a little surprising to be honest. I find that the ratio of 70 (the Shieldmaiden being special) and 30 (your awareness) does suggest you are idealizing her a little too much. I do not doubt she is special, but I would have thought that your confidence about this new relationship lasting had more to do with your self-awareness and will to build.
I understand that but consider this, her status as special arises precisely because of this new awareness, yes?
What I understand from your answer above is that the Shieldmaiden is special because you “chose” her based on your new awareness.
I read somewhere that you spent six months making sure she was the right person for you. So I can imagine that maybe you looked for traits you had not looked for before, and took into consideration things you hadn’t taken into consideration before. She is therefore a more conscious choice which feels different and special. Is that it HG?
Along the right lines.
Wisernow, you have said it better than I could myself! It’s like watching a reality show – howzabout a serial killer, or just a serial adulterer? We all know its morally abhorrent, yet we’re all addicted to the show. There is a sick side to all the adoration and ‘kudos’ HG receives, while he carries out his vivisection on human souls. Perhaps if he had renounced his life of crime, but of course, he continues, while we watch on …
I know what you mean KittieKelly. I know we are here to learn about narcissists and how they operate, and HG does a great job of teaching us. I just don’t think we ‘should’ observe passively or pretend he’s such a great guy while he’s showing us the deliberately callous way he treats his girlfriends. And yes, his own admission of eating human souls does not make me warm to him in the slightest.
Stop flirting with me WiserNow, you big tease, I’m taken!
Ha ha, that’s funny! Well, you know what they say HG … “treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen” 😉 … but of course you know that … one of your kind probably invented that saying!
I agree that we all learn from HG – I know I do. But the idea that we don’t ‘judge’ is pure bullshit! There is such a thing as wrong and right. If any man did this to one of my daughters, I’d do more than bloody judge him – I’d rip him apart with my bare hands! Wrong is wrong, period! He can still teach us without harming people in the meantime.
I totally understand the feelings of frustration and impotence, the angry memories of all the abuse many of you have gone through revived by his posts with pictures and such. But I have learned to remove myself from pain, a months earlier I would be joining the crowd and lynching the monster too. What I am going to say is not a lecture to anyone; I don’t consider myself entitled to do so and I don’t intend to adopt a position of superiority. This is what works for me in terms of emotional protection:
1. I don’t watch his Instagram because I don’t want to know more than I should, establish an imaginary connection with him, and develop empathic feelings for him and his love prospects.
2. There is little we can do about that. He is a narcissist and a sociopath, and you don’t know his name or personal details so even if you wanted to help you can’t. I feel like witnessing how the lion preys the little antelope on National Geographic. I wanna help, but I can’t. And thus, I don’t watch his personal National Geographic.
3. If you don’t want to witness all of this, cut all ties with him which is the only way to protect your emotional thinking in this situation.
4. I genuinely believe HG thinks this one is the One, and I believe he believes this time could be different. I’m skeptical though, because he is the one who constantly told us that a narc can’t and won’t ever change. But at least it seems he has different intentions. We can just wait and see if devaluation follows this golden period or not. We all hope it doesn’t. But in the meantime, it’s ridiculous we get mad at one another about this. It is obvious all of us here care.
Fair observations.
Thanks for your comment Sweetest Perfection. You make some great points. I especially like your description of HG’s instagram as being like “National Geographic”. That’s a good way of looking at it.
Next time I go there to see HG’s latest photos, I’m going to imagine David Attenborough doing a hushed voice-over about what’s happening 🙂 It will go something like “…and now we see the Greater narcissist in his natural habitat, in the midst of what generally looks like a ritual lovebombing phase. The courtship and attention given to the female seems to be working in his favour. The Greater narcissist is known to be aware of what he is doing, so if things unfold positively, this may be a case of progressive human relations.” lol 😂
WN, your Nat Geo narration made me giggle! Nothing to see today on IG. It seems he’s spent much of his day here with us. We’re so special!
Thanks MB!
WiserNow, ha ha ha! EPIC!
Thank you Sweetest Perfection. I think your thoughts and idea of looking at HG’s romantic life as a documentary are pretty epic too 🙂
WiserNow
That was great!! As a National Geographic lover that totally cracked me up!! 😝😝😝
If you all behave I might record a NG YouTube video for each school of narcissist.
Please please do it HG! The NG voice overs for each school. A fun way to celebrate.
You should do that HG. It would be a lot of fun to listen to.
WiserNow, I don’t see how this man will ever get it all done! Who knows, the NG Narc style seductive hunting voice overs might be what drives his celebrity status to new heights.
Thanks windstorm. I like NG and wildlife documentaries too. HG’s romantic life can become “The Blue Planet of HG” haha 😉
Wisernow
The Nat Geo thing was gold! Thanks for the laugh.
You’re very welcome NarcAngel.
Lol, very funny, Wisernow.
Thanks Kelly.
To be fair, Wisernow has been here awhile, has learned from him and the other commenters through discussion, and is continuing to do so. She is still entitled to discuss the aspects of his behaviour and of this dynamic that she disagrees with just as others are free to support and applaud it, and she did it through what I consider discussion and not attack.
Thank you for your comment NarcAngel, I appreciate your objective views and your support.
Are you still here, WiserNow? Haven’t seen you post for a while.
HG
You are a smart guy and you know that it is possible for you to heal your Narcissism unlikely, but nonetheless possible, but the only way is through awareness and continued lengthy therapy. You’ve been doing that for quite some time so yeah, it’s possible for you. I don’t think this one will be “the one” you’ll likely go through quite a few more and each time you may see the dynamic improving.
You seem quite smitten with this lady. As smitten as you are, you do realize that at this level of infatuation, there’s nowhere for this to go but down. There just isn’t. Relationships cannot sustain the infatuation at this level. When reality strikes, and it’s going to hopefully you will be aware enough to tolerate the fuel not being as potent. I hope so for your sake. It is attainable for you. It’s merely a question of whether the grip of Narcissism has released its hold on you enough to sustain a true relationship.
Then we shall have to watch, wait and see won’t we Lori?
Books.
One of my best friends broke up with her boyfriend.She is not in the best state right now ( to say the least) and needs the support so we spent together the whole saturday evening talking till midnight and most of sunday afternoon. They’ve been seeing each other for nearly a year but I never met him personally as he always found an excuses to not to meet her friends (❗️).
The more she told me about him the more obvious it become who she was dealing with. She was at his place when once again and for no reason ( from our perspective) he lashed out at her throwing an insults in her direction. “ If you would only have half a brain you would understand !” said an asshole to one of the most amazing, independent, successful ( with 200k a year job) woman I know.
Enough was enough. She told him that no one will speak to her in this manner ( as she warned him many times before) and that she’s leaving him. “ If you go through that door now, there’s no return. You know that ?!” “Yes , I know” she replied whilst packing her staff.
“ Get the fuck out of my house now you psycho or I will call the police .Leave the keys and never contact me again !” she’s been told.
I’ve send her some of Mr Tudor’s articles by link which I believed are the most relevant to her situation.
She text me last night.” Spot on. Exactly how it was”.
#spread_the_gospel_of_HGTudor_far_and_wide
Well done, that must feel satisfying. Thank you for advocating my work.
You’re welcome. I owe you this.I have learned so much from you…and I’m just glad that I could help. It breaks my heart seeing her suffering.
Mr Tudor….
Please don’t hurt this wonderful lady you’re with now… and only make her cry a happy tears …
Will utilising your awareness and learning be enough to stop your need to provide a contrast? To stop the need for more powerful negative fuel?
I have no need to hurt her and every need to build.
Then be upfront with her, HG. Withholding information that can allow the potential vuctim to make an informed choice is abuse. As is Love bombing.
I will be answering this in relation to a different comment and question. There is a very good basis for not delivering this information up front.
Yikes I’m having a flash back. The lesser told me that I was completely different to any of the previous that I was “special” I just remember that he was convinces I was “the one”
I agree with Lou I’d rather have seen those numbers reversed to have a certain level of confidence that this could play out differently. I think to us looking on it does seem like idealization but we do only have A very limited amount imformatiom. I sincerely hope this works out for yon
I hope you don’t take that wrong HG cause I think everyone is rooting for you.
HG I hope you prove us all wrong but I still say even if it doesn’t work out that doesn’t mean it won’t ever with continued therapy and awareness
WiserNow, I can totally see your point of view. The resson that some of us are supportive in his IG posts is because there were some threads were he stated about how optimistic he is that his relationship with this new lady will work because of his therapy and the things that he learned from this blog. I think the fact that he admitted of learning something from us through this blog was a speckle of humility which made me believe that he sincerely wants this to work. I don’t think that he sees her as a victim but he really is infatuated with her and admires her greatly, but at the same time he also wants to (from what I understand) make adjustments with his behaviors after the infatuation phase (golden period) based on what he has learned so that this time it will last. I also had a lot of naysayers when I started dating my husband who’s 28 yrs older than me sn we are still going strong. I don’t want to judge what is in other people’s hearts, only God can read our hearts. But I totally understand your point.
WiserNow,
I just remembered a story by my husband. He’s a really good person with solid integrity (although highly narcissistic as well). He grew up from a poor family, his dad was illiterate and worked at the saw mill and alcoholic and his mom was janitress at his elementary school. He didn’t want to stay poor so he studied reallt hard and was always at the top of his class. He went to college, was smart enough to be accepted at Stanford but he was so poor and nobody advised him about scholarships so he went to BYU instead to get a discount for being a Mormon. He slept on the floor and cleaned his friends’ apartment so that they will let him live rent free. But he was still strapped for cash so he applied as a waiter in this super fancy reataurant. They require experience because they are first class and he didn’t have experience so he lied to them. They asked for the phone number of the fancy restaurant that he worked previously and he made up one and when it wasn’t workig he said they probably closed. He got the job which he wouldn’t have gotten if he didn’t lie. It paid for his college and now he’s a doctor.
So HG didn’t tell this lady that he has NPD. But he has every intention in the world to make it work. He wants to apply the things that he has learned to make it work. Is it ideal? No. Is it right? Probably not. Is it the worst thing in the world? Absolutely not! My husband lied to get his job but he had every intention of being good at it. I think that it’s similar here.
mommypino,
I just want to say that I *LOVED* hearing that story about your husband – thank-you so much for sharing. It clarifies for me so much about surface level behaviour…sometimes it really is about perspective…and intent behind the actions. On the surface your husband could have looked like a very dishonest opportunistic person but he was just smart and very determined.
That’s what I mean when I’ve said here, elsewhere, that a person’s actions *over time* will tell…
Also WiserNow,
When I was looking at his IG posts, I didn’t see it as a predator parading his “new conquest”. To me, it seemed more like a twitterpated guy wanting to show the world the object of his admiration while at the same time protecting her identity. I don’t see anything wrong with it. We don’t know who HG and Shieldmaiden are. He wanted to give us a glimpse of the Golden Period, I honestly don’t see anything wrohg with it. If you read some of the threads where he talked about her, you can tell that he respects her and genuinely has high regard of her. He said that she has massive intellect etc. I honestly don’t see it as anything less than complete infatuation and admiration.
Correct.
I am posting my comment here HG simply because everyone has the right to their on opinions and this comment is not meant to anger anyone on here. NA I will need your help with this one my dear sister because can take what I’m trying to write and put it out there in a much better way then I can. Most of us at one time or other on here have gone to HG for help! I myself thought I would never be able to pay him back for the things he has done for me. I’ll honest with you all, I also was skeptical about HG and his Viking Queen and what his were?! We know as he has always told us he always has a plan! But what if his plan this time is to make this work? What if this time we are here for him like he has been for us? He deserves his chance of happiness and peace! He has suffered with this creature inside of him long enough! He has told us on many occasions that he learns from us also! I believe HG when he tells us on here (anyhow)he does not lie, he has no reason to. Perhaps us supporting him, questioning him, letting him see the damage him and his kind have done to us and that we have done to ourself can help make this work! Do I think he will come right out and ask us? No I don’t! This is the time at this early stage of there love that we can support him and keep him on track! Remember he is but a man, he is not a god ( although he thinks he is) there are a lot of normal men out there though that think the same as he does! Don’t judge him, for he has never judged us! Keep your comments coming both agreeing and disagreeing, keep questioning and questioning him! Let’s help him help himself! Let’s not let him fail this time, for his sake as well as the sake of his new found love! Thank you all for taking the time to read this! NA! Feel free to step in at any time now and make sense of what I have just written! I need ya Sister! 😘
I am sorry for the typos and missed and misspelled words in my previous comment! As alway I wrote that from my heart! Empath to the end!!
FM1T
I understood you to mean that you think discussion should continue on this new venture of HG’s regardless the opinion. That all points of view are valid and can hopefully assist him to help make it successful and that is what you wish for him because he has assisted us in a similar way – by giving us the information whether we accept is as good or bad (at the time that we receive it) and letting us work through it to acheive success.
If that is indeed what you meant, then you underestimate yourself in thinking that you need help to express yourself. You did just fine.
Oh NA!! 😪😪😘
HG
Have you ever been in the golden period with an IPPS since the inception of the blog, or was devaluation already taking place when you began?
There have been Respite Period/Golden Periods, NA.
“There have been Respite Period/Golden Periods, NA.”
Great question NA. We really are breaking new ground here. This is exciting!
HG
Thank you for your response regarding respite/golden periods during the span of the blog. I knew there would have been respite periods but I did not recall ever identifying you as being as infatuated or fully immersed in a golden period as you appear to be now with Shield Maiden and I wondered if thats why people appear to feel so invested and it has caused so much discussion. Sort of an attitude that whatever you talked about before was a look in on the past, but that they may be relating to what is happening now ‘on their watch’ so to speak. That that may be causing some conflict because it is looking toward what might happen in future given the excellent education you have provided instead of looking back at something that already happened and that they may feel removed from. Hard to articulate fully but thats the gist of my thoughts on it.
You are correct, the Other Person was in devaluation in and around when the blog commenced.
Mommypino, that is crazy. By his own, oft repeated stories, HG is incapable of genuine affection or respect for any woman he dates. She is supply, that’s all. She may survive, she may not. Perhaps he will drive her to suicide and we can all sit back and watch. As for HG’s comment – ‘Correct’ – HG, by your own admission, you’re a habitual liar, so we’re not going to believe you now, are we?
I do not lie here. There is no need or point.
So your infatuated (maybe true) and ‘protecting her’ (not possible)? You still know you want to destroy her – or that you will. You’re not that dim, lol! It’s all quite sick, HG, but you already know that. You’re playing with us and enjoying every moment of it. We’re all supply. Now if we ALL went no contact with you … hmmm.
To everyone
HG has every right to explore what may become a stable relationship with someone. He has learned much and his awareness has grown substantially. His self control and awareness of what triggers him and I am sure has learned new ways to lessen the instinctive reactions.
I hope one day he trusts her enough to be able to open up to what he is and see the work he does and be proud of this side of home also. To understand Him amd he sees her working with him and not against him.
And if he destroys her, he can post her story here for us to read. Contagion, you are very naive and seem to have little understanding of the danger this woman is in. If HG was going to be decent and honest, he would open up to her NOW! He would let HER decide if she wants to take the risk of being around him, not present a facade! She is not some human guinea pig to be taken-up or used and abused at his leisure. Information control is abuse, every cult uses it!
Fair observation Kelly, what if the information control is being done to facilitate the best outcome for all involved? What if early disclosure results in the premature termination of something ground-breaking? Do you regard early disclosure as a rigid obligation or one afforded flexibility? Do you apply early disclosure of your private life and its ‘secrets’ when dating for example? (I appreciate you are not a narcissist, but I am interested intellectually in whether you regard this as an absolute obligation, or one with some flexibility dependent on the dynamic and the nature of the disclosure. I look forward to your answer.
Nobody wants “premature termination” HG
But in all seriousness, she would be a fool NOT to run screaming if she read some of the things we have without knowing you. (Btw, I binge watched ‘You’ over the weekend and it DID NOT do your kind any favors on the dating scene!) Once she loves you, she will understand why you didn’t tell her at first. There really is no other way if you want to give the relationship a chance to get off the ground.
For example, I have been diagnosed with Bipolar II. “Bipolar” carries a very negative connotation as well as a great deal of misunderstanding as to what it is. I absolutely would not reveal that about myself to a potential mate until way on down the line. In fact, I have not disclosed it to most people in my personal life.
MB
There are many ways to see disclosure unfolding (in anyone’s situation). These are a few that presented themselves to me.
There could be complete acceptance and understanding that you waited due to fear of prejudice.
If you tell someone upfront and they give you a pass without further investigation, then they have displayed to you their lack of intelligence, understanding, or willingness to accept differences and you have identified a problem in your judgement of their ability to do so. It has therefore saved you both the time and pain of further iinvestment/involvement.
It could foster feelings of deceit and/or distrust that you did not tell them (and what else are you not telling them?). Also anger or disappointment that you have in essence pre-judged them in their response in the same way you feared being judged by them.
Might it be considered a form of control (despite good or bad intention) to attempt to elicit a favourable result from the other person by manipulating the timing with regard to disclosure of the truth?
NA, I’ve never looked at it that way before. I understand lying by omission though. I never looked at it as manipulating the situation but in a way it is. You’re right.
I’ve always looked at it as protecting my privacy until I trust someone enough to tell them. Society uses “bipolar” and “crazy” interchangeably. It’s not the kind of thing I would be comfortable disclosing on a first date or during a job interview! Ha ha. There is a great deal of misconception and ignorance regarding the condition. And that’s just simple bipolar! If HG disclosed that he’s a “narcissistic psychopath” on the first date, He’d never get laid again! He would have to choke the chicken much more than occasionally!
Ps, I’m not making light of your serious comment. I really took it to heart and it made me think a great deal hence taking me a while to respond. Even in 2019 mental issues are still very much misunderstood and taboo in society. My stance is that they are better kept to oneself unless and until the other can be trusted not to prejudge. I am not my bipolar. If I started with that out of the gate, that’s all you would see. I’m MB. I want you to see me first. We can deal with the other later. Because just like HG, to know me is to love me. Shieldmaiden will be fine with a little sprinkling of psychopathy once she gets to know him. That will be one more thing to love about him.
MB
I think mental health issues are still stigmatized largely due to ignorance, but it is also not helped by the fact that people with disorders sometimes presume prejudice where there is none due to their own fear. I do understand that. If you don’t know someone with a disorder you likely have had no exposure to information about it, but if you are intelligent and have empathy and compassion (which the disordered person would have to gauge) you will look into it when it presents itself. If you told me that you were disordered upfront I wouldn’t bat an eyelash. If it was something I was unfamiliar with I would ask you in what ways it might present itself, how it might affect our interactions, and discuss how I should react or what would be required if faced with a situation. Then I would read about it (hopefuly you would direct me). People may seem insensitive at first in their questioning because it is new to them, but you can generally sort those who are ignorant due to lack of information and experience from those who are just plain ignorant in nature and choose to stay that way. In your case, anyone you feel you have to ‘win over’ you should just take a pass on. I do understand that disorders like psychopathy raises the stakes and I am not simplifying or minimizing the process with something where people may be placed in a dangerous situation. But you being bipolar? We all good right out of the gate.
NA, thank you for reply and I would have expected nothing less than acceptance from you. This is going to sound like a stereotype, but I have found it to be true. People in the southern US tend to be close minded and very unaccepting of people that are different from them. (Or that they perceive as different-I’m just like everybody else!) I have found Canadians (yourself included) to be more open-minded, progressive, and tolerant. (Exhibit A: National decriminalization of marijuana) I’ve been on a combination of meds for 15 years that works very well and let’s me live a completely “normal” life. Nobody would ever know I have a mental disorder. Just like they can’t tell I have high blood pressure if I don’t take my meds for that. The last thing I need at work is for my boss or heaven forbid, my subordinates to find out. I don’t feel like they would respect me or hold me in as high esteem if they found out I was “crazy”, which is what they would hear when I said “bipolar”.
I still agree with HG. Some secrets are best left unsaid. People don’t have a need to know my medical history unless they may need to resuscitate me or inform EMS. The most likely emergency I would have would be suicide and let’s face it, I wouldn’t be wanting to be saved at that point!
NA, I realized in my reply to you that I completely missed the point of disclosure of a personality/mental health disorder in the context of an intimate relationship! Cue Homer Simpson “doh”! I got off on the tangent of disclosing it in my professional life.
I don’t have any reference point as I have never dated and my diagnosis came about 17 years into the relationship with my current partner and fell under the umbrella of “for better or for worse” and “in sickness and in health.”
I think if I were to begin dating for whatever hypothetical reason that it could happen, I would still keep it to myself until I felt comfortable that disclosure would go well.
Now, if my new love interest were to see me taking my meds and ask what they are for…
I’d look at him with narrowed eyes and in my best Bill Bixby impersonation say, “You won’t like me if I don’t take them…”
MB
Oh ok. I wondered why you mentioned the workplace as I saw no need to disclose that information there. I meant with potential friends and intimate partners yes.
“what if the information control is being done to facilitate the best outcome for all involved?”
HG, if you care to share thoughts on that – what is your understanding of ‘best outcome’ here? What are parameters that define your understanding of ‘best outcome for all involved’ in a dynamic that has, according to your words, the potential to be ground-breaking?
I get what I require, The Shieldmaiden avoids what has happened to others.
Thank you for answering HG. I understand that your essential need for fuel that sustains you is bound to be a preconceived and therefore fixed factor at the core of the dynamic and essential part of the outcome. I notice a twist in your answer – intended as such or not – which seems to conflate both your and your partner’s responsibility for the course of interaction and desired outcome. It may reflect what you are repeatedly emphasising in the discussions – it has to be seen how this dynamic between the two of you shall unfold. That is a most understandable perception even though I have to admit, that I remain (moderately) suspicious as many others do – for the sake of education, neutral observation and awareness. I respect that too many variables and clear-cut facts of the situation, of your interaction and of what you have learned with the help of professionals, are missing in order to make an assumption that is based on clear facts and insight rather than opinions that might be grounded on various factors and motives.
Your reference to ‚information control‘ and the resulting discussions about potential effects on the new dynamic – the great unknown – are most interesting to me on an abstract level specifically since I recall an exchange of differing opinions with Dr HQ on a related topic – change/modification – some time ago. I remember that Dr HQ, from her stance as a professional in the field, advocated for the possibility of a new dynamic between a Greater of your level of intelligence and awareness and a rather abstract ‘persona’ as ‘ideal counterpart’ that was created back then through a collection and attribution of various traits and abilities. I recall that I belonged to those readers who voiced their doubts about the possibility of modification/change in a dynamic that consists of two people, therefore two ‘variables’, each with their own needs, wants, beliefs and set of ‘values’ that are brought into the equation. I acknowledge that my line of argument was based primarily on my experience with a different school of narcissist where a modification of behaviour or even change is impossible, thus I presented a more generalised view that did not take all factors and nuances of a different possibilities with a different school into account. I hold on to the essential conviction since it protects me, off the screen, in my private life but have become more open-minded as to the possibility of modifying certain behaviours and outcomes in your very specific case. I look forward to you sharing those insights with us that may add to our increased understanding.
And you shall see them as matters unfold. Thank you for your considered and articulate observations.
Kelly
I am far from naive.
You have no idea what a Contagion is. Nor do you know my story or what I have experienced.
I have faith in HG, in his ability of self control, being able to express himself, his awareness, his desires and his goals. He has changed from the first day he started this blog to today. He is not the same man he was, he now holds what has always been rightfully his.I do not believe I could be prouder of him.
Awareness is what changes things, willingness to support and understand binds. The test will be facing society which will be against them. She needs to have a heart of a warrior, I do not know her, yet he does. I trust his word. They both have a challenge I believe can be overcome.
Those are my thoughts as well. I understand views and perspectives that differ from this stance, however.
mommypino,
I’m not quite sure how you can recognise that it’s the Golden Period, and yet you still don’t see anything wrong with it. The Golden Period for a narcissist is when they create the illusion about how wonderful they are. It’s all fake. It’s not based on real feelings or real care and respect for the other person as one human to another. They are doing it knowing that they want to create a particular impression in order to hook the other person into becoming emotionally “ensnared” with them.
mommypino,
Moving on from our different views on HG’s latest relationship, I really don’t want to argue with you. I understand all that you are saying and I think you are a warm, open and good-hearted person. I enjoy your comments and our “conversations” together. I did not mean to imply that you shouldn’t have made positive or encouraging comments on HG’s instagram. You are free to be honest and to comment however you like.
I too hope that HG and the Shieldmaiden can have a happy and mutually beneficial relationship. The only thing is that he has told us very openly that he is a narcissist and has given us many insights into exactly what narcissists do.
Anyway, let’s hope for the best, even though we may have different views about it all 🙂
KittieKelly
From what I have learned, narcissists genuinely get infatuated. They have the same infatuation chemicals in the brain that we do. They probably even have a more intense feelings of infatuation that we do because their brains are wired to seek rewards (they have a much more intense dopamine response in anticipation of getting the reward). That’s probably why they idolize and put their object of admiration on a pedestal more than we do when we are infatuated. The problem starts when the dopamine level drops. For us, it is replaced with oxytocin and vasopressin which keeps us attached to the person. For some reason it is not the same case with them, they are incapable of attachment, so the devaluation commences.
Why do I have hope that it might work with HG and Shieldmaiden? 1. Because HG wants it to work. 2. Because I noticed in this blog that he has high self control and I have seen S. Vaknin (another Greater) snap at someone interviewing him and callig her dumb just because she asked him if he is Jewish because she’s 1/4 Jewish). 3. HG said that he has learned feom his theraphy and his work herebin this blog. Am I 100% sure that it will work? Absolutely not. Love is always a gamble. We all have skeletons in or closets and baggages before we enter relationships. I am not the same person that I was when I entered a relationship with my husband. I had a lot of baggages and flaws. Does that mean I am not allowed to try? Of course not. Most of us here are damaged in some way and are not in the best shape to be in a relationship but it doesn’t mean that we are not allowed to seek relationships that might work for us. And I don’t really want to spend a lot of time with this issue because even though we are entitled to form opinions and conclusions, it is not our lives.
Mommypino, you missed my point! If HG is trying to be decent, for once, then he is to be upfront and honest with this woman from day 1 about who he is and his ‘disorder’. She must be given all the information she needs to make an informed choice. If he does NOT do that, he has not changed and it is abuse from the get-go. She is not some cosmic, romantic experiment, period!
I have no idea where to comment so I’ll throw it here. If she is as intelligent as HG says I don’t think she will run for the hills if HG discloses he is a narcissist. If anything I think it would be a lure. She’s a SE magnet. If she is in the midst of the golden period her emotional thinking will convince her that, with awareness, they can make it work. She will be all in, his partner helping him “fix” what so many others before her couldnt.
If she learns about narcsite this is could be an addditional lure. HG is not only a narcissist he is the ultimate narcissist (13 million hits). She could be the ultimate empath. The one that did what all of the rest of us empaths couldn’t do. We couldn’t make it work.
All of this would rely on her emotional thinking but if she is an empath ensnared by a greater then her emotional thinking is strong right now .
Mercy
Haha emotional thinking, yes. Even the voice of massive intellect can be drowned out by the driving bass of a thumping heart beat and an incessantly purring kitty.
Meow
WiserNow,
I hope this comment lands on the right spot. I will admit that I am still confused with the Golden Period. There were some articles where it seemed like he was indeed luring and putting a trap to ensnare what he refers to in his articles as victims during the Golden Period. But there were some things that I have read where they are really infatuated during the Golden Period. I know that with my husband, we had our own version of Golden Period. We dated for almost 3 yrs before getting married and our Golden Period lasted about maybe until year 2 of our marriage then it started to be more regular but still good. I’m probably guilty of putting my own spin to it too. But I believe that HG really is genuinely infatuated with Shieldmaiden and then the new dynamic is that he will alter his behaviors based on the improvements from his therapy and what he learned from this blog.
WiserNow,
I have so much respect for you and I really appreciate the conversations that we had here. You are a good person with high integrity and you are being honest with what you are seeing and standing up for it. You are worried and wants to protect Shieldmaiden and I can totally see your point of view. I never saw anything negative about it. I was just conveying how I saw it from my perspective. Thank you for your kind words to me. I agree let’s hope for the best for them! 💕
Thank you very much for your kind reply mommypino 💕
Hi Kelly,
I can see your point and I reapect where you are coming from. I just don’t have the same attitude about it as you do.
My attitude about it is that, if HG tells Shieldmaiden today about his NPD the outcome is either she’s ok with it or not ok with it. If HG doesn’t do that and instead tells her someday in the future about it, the possible outcomes are the same, either she’s ok with it or not ok with it. If she’s ok with it, does it even matter what timeline he told her about it? The decision ultimately rests with her.
If she’s not happy in the relationship, she’s always free to leave. It is true that it will be harder, but he did not pick a codependent, he picked a super empath which means she’s not going to stay if he crosses a certain line that she doesn’t find acceptable.
I just think that love is always a gamble. When I married my husband, we didn’t know everything about each other. Either we didn’t remember to disclose or we chose not to. In my case, I have disclosed everything that I believed he would have preferred to know. Would I have an issue if he didn’t disclose everything to me? Maybe, but ultimately I love him and would be happier to get over it and still be with him. She will choose what will make her happy and what will make her happy might not be what would make you or me happy. So we can’t really say that because we will find it unacceptable that our partner did not disclose everything to us, it will be the same for her. Maybe she wouldn’t mind after all. Just my two cents.
Fair points, everybody has secrets and often they are better remaining just that.
Is it being suggested you tell her now on the front end ? Omg Nooooooo!
Can you imagine if you just started dating someone and you really really liked them and they laid all of this out there ? My God of you were even remotely normal you’d run for the hills
Perhaps when the time comes the good doctors can help to figure out the best way to handie this with her. Honestly if this is to work out long term, she’s going to have to be part of the therapy and perhaps they can give her some level of comfort that you are continuing to make progress
Hi WiserNow,
Thanks for your comment – I relate to much of what you have said and appreciate the time it has taken you to provide your perspective and bridge the gap for me.
I think it is a case of reading the materials from two different perspectives….
I try not to read the blog from an empathic perspective or to consider the text as HG’s behaviour in the narrative he provides. I switch off the empathic/emotional mindset so that I can apply the relevant articles to my own personal experiences and draw out similarities with the N in my life for my own personal growth and learning.
I apologise if my comment did not consider your holistic perspective and other prior comments here. I often read pointed comments pointing out HG’s narcissistic and Machevillian traits and I wonder why? This is because we all know HG is a narc and that is why we are here to learn from his lived experience and narcissistic perspective.
I have no misconceptions about the fact HG is in many ways a dangerous man. I would certainly not like to hang my hard hat on a future with him! However, I prefer to focus on his materials without passing judgement and separate myself from his responsibility to others in his personal life. I feel no need to comment on that and also see it as unnecessary because it is stating the obvious – we all know what he is and that is the precise reason we are here.
This explains my focus on his genius and redirecting us back to his skills as a writer because I see those as most relevant to my learning here.
Anyhow, it is understandable that two people can have differing perspectives. We are both learning and growing as part of our differing approaches and perspectives and that I see as the most important thing in all of this.
Thank you for your reply Sarah. I understand your points about focusing on HG’s materials as learning tools and not passing judgement. After reading some of the comments on this thread, I can see how I have been subjective in some ways. I think that’s a result of emotional thinking (objecting to HG’s lovebombing of a new ‘romantic’ interest) leaking into my logical thinking (being here to learn).
I get you, Wisernow, but all this gunk about ‘not judging’? There is such a thing as right and wrong, and abuse is just wrong. We need to call actions for what they are. Otherwise the guy who robbed my place yesterday – well, it wasn’t nice, but heck, who can judge him for cleaning me out? Maybe he was having a bad day! Yep, it’s ludicrous.
There is no such thing as right or wrong, it is a matter of perspective. However a majority of people evolve in a similar way, thus share a similar perspective and from that a moral and legal framework arises whereby the concept of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are used as labels. There is no grand arbiter of right or wrong – what is right for someone is wrong for someone else. These perspectives shift too with the evolution of that perspective, take for example how homosexuality was extensively criminalised as it was deemed ‘wrong’ and in most places in the world (but not all) homosexuality is no longer a criminal act, thus what was once labelled ‘bad’ is now seen as ‘not bad/good’
The burglary of your home is viewed by you and many others as ‘wrong’, the person or persons who committed the burglary will most likely be aware such action is considered by the law and society as ‘wrong’ but he/she/they deemed it ‘right’ for him/her/them because of their altered perspective to committing such an act.
I have learned a lot about perspective
Rotten to the core.
Yep, lol!
HG, from reading several articles from your work (shell-shocked silence and the book Fury I believe), it seemed like Alex got quite a bit of devaluation compared to Sophie for example. Is this assumption correct?
Are there certain traits that empaths have that trigger a harsher treatment or devaluation from narcs (whether romantic or platonic relationships)?
Or is is just a coincidence that certain empaths unknowingly ignite fury from narcs because of their personalities which then make the narcs give them harsher treatments than others?
The latter.
Thank you!
You are The Man!!! “On The Rocks” … WOW!