We See You As An Object
You want to be someone to my kind and me.
That will not happen.
You are a something to us, not a someone.
I do not relate to you. Why should I? I regard myself as superior, elevated and special. The petty concerns which govern your life do not apply to me. I do not do accountability. Certainly I have some understanding of what it means to be you, after all I have listened to you tell me so many times about how you feel and I have watched you and others like you so often. I do not feel it however. I cannot put myself in your shoes. I do not want to and even if I did, I am unable to do so because I neither have that emotional empathy or the even stronger emotional contagion that you experience.
Yes, I can see the differences between you and her, him and them. I can see the contrasts in height, body shape, she has green eyes and you have blue eyes, he has no hair and he has dreadlocks. I recognise physical attractiveness, I see the different clothes that you wear, the variances in shoes worn, jewellery displayed and such like. I notice all of that but that does not make you more of a person to me. It is merely the distinction between a washing machine that is white and one which is silver.
Take my television which is placed at the far end of the main sitting room. It is a Samsung Curved SUHD HDR Dot Smart TV 78″ television that I primarily watch sport on. It provides me with a picture which is in pinsharp crikey vision with a scintillating array of colours. The sound is impressive and it looks sleek and attractive. It delivers an outstanding display and therefore delivers what I require of it.
Take you as my primary source. I can see that you stand 5ft 9″ in height, you are slender, with pale skin and long brown hair to the small of your back, which becomes slightly wavy towards the end. Your face is oval. Your eyes are green. You look sleek and attractive. You are an outstanding display of physical attractiveness. I know all this but your primary purpose is to provide me with positive fuel and you do so impressively. You therefore deliver that which I require of you.
You are no different to my television. You are there to provide a function. You are to deliver in accordance with the Prime Aims, which are the provision of fuel, character traits and residual benefits. If you do and you do so in a fulsome manner, you are a high functioning appliance. If you do not, you are a malfunctioning one.
You and the television are there to do things for me, because I am entitled to that.
I press your buttons by seducing you or later provoking you and you must churn out fuel for me. You at the time of the golden period are my favourite appliance. I have many appliances, other objects which spew out fuel in varying quantities and differing potencies. I have connected all of these appliances to me because again my objectification of you is also linked to the need to exert control. If I want to eat some toast, I place two slices of bread in my Alessi toaster and press the lever down, adjust the relevant control to govern the degree of toasting required and a minute or two later I have two perfectly toasted slices. It works each and every time. I control it. It does what i want. It does not refuse to toast my bread, it does not only toast one side, it does not fire the bread back at me or instead produce a different outcome altogether by presenting me with a leg of lamb. I expect you to be equally compliant and effective. I do not understand why you should not be. You are there to do what I want, I am entitled to receive the Prime Aims and since I installed you as my primary source, you should be delivering them repeatedly, consistently and without interruption. I am not interested in the vagaries of your life which impacts upon your ability to function because of my sense of entitlement, my notion of superiority and of course my incessant needs and demands.
Objects are far easier to control. They are installed, powered and they function. If they stop functioning then they are thrown away and they are replaced. Accordingly, when you stop delivering in accordance with the Prime Aims you suffer the same fate. I do not have time to repair you, you are put to one side and a better, shinier, more effective model takes your place. How did I ever manage without it? Why did I put up with you as a faltering appliance for so long?
You may look at your replacement and wonder why on earth that appliance has been chosen over you. It might be because you gave everything you could to us. It might be because you can see that you are more capable, more interesting, more intelligent and better looking than your replacement. Perhaps you are, perhaps those distinguishing features are there, but you were not delivering in accordance with the Prime Aims and your replacement is doing so which means that they are infinitely superior to you. You are dispensable. Ally the fact that we see you and others as objects with our necessity for performance, our lack of remorse and conscience and you can understand (or maybe begin to understand) why we find it so easy to dis-engage with you and place you on the scrap heap and choose another appliance with such ease.
If you end a relationship, you may be concerned to ensure that the other person is not too devastated, that they are doing okay because even though you may not want to be in a Formal Relationship longer you largely still care about the well-being of another human being. To us that is pointless. Why use your energy dealing with something that is ineffective? That is a waste of time.
Your objectification makes it far easier for us to function. By regarding you as just another object which is there to perform for us, that is to be controlled by us and can be readily replaced when we deem it necessary, we achieve our aims far more readily. Performance and control are key and this is what objects do. Whether it is an ornament which looks beautiful and we can place where we want, to a motor vehicle which delivers us from A to B or a dishwasher which provides us with clean and streak free shining glasses, we control them all and they perform.
This objectification extends into how we regard different objects. For example, when you are seduced and embedded as the intimate partner primary source, you are our most prized possession. You are the one which will give us the necessary positive fuel each and every day in large amounts and with considerable potency. This means you will be looked after, you will be treated well, you will be paraded and shown off, like some prize piece of art or an expensive necklace. You will be placed carefully on that pedestal, polished, cleaned and maintained.
The tertiary source which works in the garage where we fill up with petrol every week is like an old teddy bear. We always say hello and receive a pleasant dollop of positive fuel as we feign interest in this person’s humdrum life. We have known this person for years and like that teddy bear, we see no need to throw them away, not yet, but nor do we regard there as being any necessity for maintenance. Accordingly, the corresponding teddy bear has a eye missing, some stuffing is spilling from inside and the fur has faded.
In the same way that one is careful with a delicate and expensive mirror, we will treat our appliances in the same way. Some can be kicked to one side, scuffed and stained, like a pair of old trainers, others are handled with care until we decide otherwise. Our appliances in our fuel network are regarded and handled in differing ways.
The trophy appliances, the primary source in the golden period or the longstanding inner circle successful friends who are non-intimate secondary sources, are displayed and shown off regularly. The much maligned familial non-intimate secondary source, a scapegoated sibling or child, is the hideous jumper that is only ever worn when it really has to be done and is otherwise derided and ridiculed. Our Lieutenants are our tools, the devices which we depend on to do our bidding as they are deployed to achieve our aims.
Our objectification of you is necessary for the purposes of maintaining control and achieving the Prime Aims. This objectification is achieved because of our lack of empathy. I no sooner can relate to how an iMac feels as to how you feel. I have no concern about whether my Mont Blanc pen feels. It is there to perform. I have a vested interest in you feeling for the purposes of providing fuel, but I am not concerned as to how you feel because I cannot empathise with you.
This objectification manifests not just in how we parade you as a trophy, devalue you without any concern for the impact on you and then how we dis-engage and replace you, but also in the way we interact with you. The use of pet names Pet is a way of dehumanising you. We refer to you as her, she, he and him, rather than your actual name, stripping you of identity (see It for an extreme method of doing so). We reject the legitimacy of your needs and desires by placing ours first. A fridge freezer has no aspirations, no life plan or goals and we reject their applicability to you also. This objectification appears in how we interact with you, especially during devaluation
“Just do it.”
“Do what I want.”
“Get on with it.”
“Stop disobeying me.”
“You will do it or else.”
There is no asking, no politeness, no consideration given. We do not ask the washing machine if it wouldn’t mind washing our clothes so why would we ask you if you wouldn’t mind doing something for us?
You and everybody else, from our parents to our friends, to our colleagues to our children are all objects which are expected to do our bidding. Perform and we will keep you. Fail and you are replaced.
Now, why is there a flashing light on your forehead?
39 thoughts on “We See You As An Object”
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This was my ah hah moment when I listened to it on YouTube. The shift I needed to make things click.
Good.
BKK, I get what your saying about the energy! I felt it! Even if it was through phone, text, or email, it was there! Your correct the sensation goes much deeper then even the intimate touch! This sounds crazy but it was as if I was in his mind or him in mine. I would know what he was going to say or I could finish his sentence especially intimately when everything was flowing freely and nothing being held back! Ok! Now I’m rambling? Lol. All I wanted to do was tell you that I felt the same thing. But not with all of them. Only one could I do with! We do match on so many different levels. 🌷
It is not a matter of perspective. If all the narcs of the world could do, what they want, the world we share and love would not exist any longer.
Second World War happened, because people let narcs and psychopaths do too long, what they wanted. We all have seen the result.
People have to make a morally decision. If they accept your kind, they support your kind, although they do not want it.
Therefore people have to make a decision.
I agree with you Mona, that the world we live in would be a terrible place if narcissistic people could do everything they wanted to.
By talking about and even accepting the different perspectives, I am NOT supporting narcissists. Personally, I have a very strong belief that deception, greed, oppression, corruption, war, dictatorships, etc etc are wrong and are creating terrible conditions in our world. On a smaller scale, I am also morally against the terrible effects on families, relationships, everyday life and general ‘trust’ between people.
I accept and support HG though. This blog and what HG is doing to educate people and help them to understand is a unique and positive thing. It is increasing knowledge and awareness and providing help and positive advice. If more people were aware and able to ‘see’ the results of narcissism, it would be harder for narcissists (and flying monkeys etc) to get away with their corrupt and ultimately dangerous actions. For that, I am grateful to HG, even if he is a narcissist.
I think it is important to be aware of ‘perspectives’ even if you don’t agree with them. It helps us to be able to understand why things happen. Without this, people are generally quick to jump to emotional reactions or become angry, upset, offended, judgemental etc without being able to understand properly why they are feeling that way.
I think it’s important to understand also that awareness (and even acceptance and compassion) does not mean the same thing as support or agreement.
Precisely. It is a fundamental aspect of understanding and moving forward that the empathic perspective is not the sole perspective nor is it the ‘right’ perspective, it is ‘right’ for you, but not for others. By understanding there are other perspectives (and as you state you do not have to agree with them, just know they are there and why they are and what that means) you take a large stride forward to freedom.
Another good example, Mona, of how humanity destroys itself when narcs take over. Thank you.
I can find you plenty of examples of how humanity has continued when narcs have taken over particular areas if you wish? Hands up those reading this on an Apple device, just for starters?
HG, I was not directing my comment to you because you said you did not want to debate this issue anymore. I am not allowed to respond to Mona without you getting your hackles up?
Yes, I love my MacBook and no, I would not mind if I needed an operation and my surgeon was a narc. I think it was me who, awhile ago now, wrote out a very long post defending NA (yes I did do that) when she wrote her letter to the narc and was under attack. I believe I said that I could see both sides – that narcissists can do good and they can do bad. I haven’t changed my mind.
But the debate you and I were having was about perspective vs objective right and wrong – that’s where Mona’s comment comes in and that is why I responded to it. Her point as I understood it was simply that if narcs are free to follow their worst impulses (their perspective, if you will), with no social conventions, bad shit happens. They do evil things that are against humanity.
This does NOT mean that one cannot understand their perspective. It simply means that they are wrong even if in their own heads they are right.
Narcs are fine as long as their intelligence and energies are directed at doing good, even if they do not know they are doing good. For instance, what you are doing here is good and I am happy you are doing it. Certainly no one else could. You know it is ‘good’ of course but you’ve also been compelled by forces that, if they did not exist, would mean that this blog would not exist. You did not start the blog out of the kindness of your heart but you get something from it, as do we empaths. It’s a win-win situation for everyone and maybe it is even helping you. I accept you. I support you. I like you. I don’t have a problem with you personally at all. You are helpful and that is pro-social and therefore it is good, even if you are a narc. Simples!
Now let’s take a different narc situation – Trump and his stupid wall. You see the lengths he is going to in trying to get his wall built? Let’s say for the sake of argument that the wall is ‘evil’ (I don’t want to debate the stupid wall – I am just using it as an example.) What if Congress was not there to put the brakes on? Well, Trump would be doing evil things (building the wall). Evil is what happens when psychopaths can do what they want (never mind that Trump is still trying, which just proves my point).
I just watched the Ted Bundy Tapes too. 36 people died because Ted Bundy did what he wanted, never mind genocide.
HG, I’m captured again. I just adore being a piece of f***king piece of property. Now we are going through a huge public fuel-sucking lot of bullshit. We are supposed to start counseling. Disgusting social pressure from every side on me to “compromise” (read skip holding him accountable). My children are a freaking mess from all the whacked crap they were told.
You wanna place a bet how long golden boy lasts before I get pounded again?
I know the therapy I’m getting here on narcsite is working. I see it in the faces of some of the lesser narcissist’s I know. Now they look at me with dropped, straight faces, noticing I’m not responding correctly to them, and my expression is neutral, unapologetic, unemotional, unconcerned. They aren’t as interested anymore, and I’m enjoying the release of their smothering tendrils, which were never welcome or desired by me. These people imposed themselves on me, and aren’t the crafty narcissist’s that ensnared me. The ones I must tread lightly around, well actually not really my family anymore as I’ve outgrown that, but the greater – I’m not done with him. A grand finale.
EXACTLY, kel. I am starting to realize the effect they had on me initially, to pull me in, was a result of manipulation, not truth. I have been susceptible due to my own issues in not being able to see certain things due to my past, but as I can plainly SEE what people are doing my reactions to them are altered and they literally start to fall away. What is most fascinating to me is that I remember that I used to be afraid of “offending” them, because what I feel about what I do would be offensive to me, but the truth is they aren’t really. They don’t feel those things. They will either continue to apply differing manipulations or they will give up with me because their goal isn’t being met which used to make me think I’d done something wrong (because I would feel differently), but they don’t think that, they just think they’ll try something else somewhere else. This is mostly with new people I see though, my goal is to never get to enmeshment. And I want people with true emotional ability to stick around and stay connected.
Also, when I can see that something is a surface manipulation, all my life I would still be attached and attracted because I thought “oh, they just don’t know, they will figure it out” and not want to be unrealistic in my expectations. But now I know they won’t “figure it out”, and everything takes on this two-dimensional quality rather than looking fully fleshed out and colorful and I don’t feel sucked in to HOPE and projections. I expect genuine emotion and they become less enticing and I am less reactive by default. I am very afraid to find a new romantic relationship but I would expect it to be something else entirely.
Nunya biz,
Yes, that’s completely right! It’s not that we couldn’t see their differences and shallowness, it’s that they attached themselves to us, and we were just being polite. On hindsight, we shouldn’t have worried about hurting their feelings, but then, I used to internalize any negativity and worry over how people acted with me.
I’ve learned as much about being an empath on this site as I have about narcissists. It’s easy to see how we were so easily taken advantage of. Still how could we have ever known about narcissism when no one has ever talked about it?
I used to be afraid of the dating scene too- but I’m really not anymore. For one thing I know myself better now and I’m more confident, and I know a narcissist when I meet one now- or it doesn’t take long to notice the signs. I’m far less worried about being polite and hurting feelings- I’m not a pushover anymore. It’ll be interesting to date a normal or an empath for a change, lol.
I would also internalize negativity, but somehow also get all turned around and confused on the question of “self esteem”. It is a very valid point because I should have a hard line on certain things, even certain small things, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. On the other hand when raised 100% literally surrounded by narcissists there is a very real logic breakdown of understanding what is happening because of being constantly given conflicting information.
As far as dating, my problem is I don’t trust myself totally and also being repeatedly disappointed at N behavior is draining, which is a negative for me. My intention is to create my inner and outer life the way that is best for me and ask the universe to surround me with generous, supportive people. I figure mutual attraction can work it’s way in there slowly? I don’t know but life is wild for me atm.
And learning about being an empath has been great, I often feel nicer actually.
Repeating “maintain my own perspective”.
Rock on, Nunya Biz!!
Do ask the Universe! I believe in that, and positive energy! I believe strongly in prayer, and have marveled at the results from them. Narcissists keep us away from the things we believe in, and have us focused on only them – no wonder they feel like gods. I’m not enabling them anymore, their narcissism is their problem, not mine, thank God we are who we are. They are con artist making us feel inferior when actually they are the ones who are lacking, needy, and weak. Somehow we all have to coexist, but definitely from a distance.
I will rock on!
And you do that for sure because I need those positive energies to surround myself with as I was saying : )
I am thinking, I like prayer also and it would be a good idea to integrate it meditation/manifestation style into a daily routine and I may do that. I plan to organize some ideas of what I’m aiming toward, because there is a lot to organize, I wish there was some brilliant way for me to do that.
While I certainly feel movement I am still struggling with some anger and pain and as you say, not enabling them is key. Which means not giving into that view. Are narcissists particularly susceptible to bending to the opinions of others? Like “smearing” type stuff? I think so. I mean I try not to deviate my opinion toward a person based on another person’s point of view without good reason. So distance and maintaining perspective are the best tools because I that sort of eliminates the issue to what extent I can manage.
I don’t allow myself to think of him the whole day – and I do the same thing the next day. It feels clean and free not caring what he’s up to anymore- besides I know everything he does is a fake and meaningless to him- it’s all for a moment of fuel and nothing else. Never believe their smearing and never give them a chance to smear you. If they do, ride it out, behave positively, and it will pass. We’re shining stars, Nunya Biz, too good for any narc!
Wise words, kel. Now if I can just get my emotional reactions under control and my insistence on “right” in some areas. Under stress I get more frustrated.
I think i can iron it out.
Real humans don’t need “things” to provide them with fuel to make them work… You do. You need us (objects) to maintain your energy levels so that you can go ahead with your poor existance…Who is the object then?
Real human? I am not imaginary you know. I am as real as you are. Oh and better.
I know you like me. I like you too I must admit… but I had enough with the last one. Maybe later on…let’s keep in touch, you never know! 😉
Ha ha, very good.
Good girl Butterfly!! 😉
😂
That was a pretty good comeback, Butterfly! 😄 And I definitely understand your first comment about how they “need” us for fuel. Feeling that actually helped me to get over my narcissist as it gave me a weird sense of power… to know that I have what he needs.
But if I’m honest, one of the things that drew me to my narcissist was that our energy levels matched. It was the oddest sensation to me, Butterfly. I understand that most of this can be explained by chemical surges in the brain and good old-fashioned sexual tension, but at the risk of sounding kooky, when I touched him, I felt an energy unlike anything I had ever experienced.
And within my profession, I naturally touch a lot of people, so by comparison, this sensation was different… different even from other intimate encounters.
I had to believe it was because our energies matched. And in many ways, I think that’s part of the draw. I don’t want to go as far as Sam and say empaths are inverted narcissists, but our wounds and our energies really do match the narcissist on so many levels.
Just look at the highly energetic, intelligent, hard-working, witty, talented empaths who are on this blog. Many would be considered “greaters” if they were narcissists, simply based on their attributes and qualities and accomplishments and awareness.
I don’t know why I rambled on about that when all I was trying to do was commend you for your witty banter, but your word of energy just inspired me to remember just how well-matched we are to the narcissist on some sort of mystical level of energy.
Anyway, I understand and admire your spunkiness. Best wishes to you, Butterfly. 🌸
Treating other people as objects would be described as “wrong” by many people in general. I think there would be general agreement by the majority of people that human beings deserve more dignity and respect than to be treated as objects.
I’m pretty sure that HG would counter this point of view by saying there is no arbiter who decides what is right or wrong. It’s a matter of perspective. What is right for some may be wrong for others and
WordPress is so touchy sometimes… I didn’t press anything and suddenly my comment is ‘sent’…🙄
To continue…
What is right for some may be wrong for others and ultimately, there is no universal ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.
Ok, I get that argument and in an effort to be as broadminded as possible, let’s say there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ about treating other people as objects, or about the behaviours of narcissists in general. If it advances the goals and objectives of the narcissist, so be it. If we change our perspective, we can even come to see that a narcissist has an ‘understandable’ set of behaviours. Indeed, a certain proportion of the human population have these behaviours, so if nature saw fit to produce this ‘kind’, who are we to argue with nature?
With that mindset then, we could equally conclude that there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with, say wealth inequality or dictatorships or ‘ethnic cleansing’, or even political attempts to deny climate change, to name a few consequences of narcissistic behaviour.
We could argue that there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with a very small minority of people (1%) owning about two-thirds of the world’s wealth, leaving much of the remaining human population in dire poverty. We could say that’s just the way it is and it’s a case of survival of the fittest. There is ultimately no arbiter who can ultimately ‘prove’ that one perspective is right and another is wrong.
In the same vein, there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with a narcissistic dictator overrunning his country’s media and television outlets and feeling entitled to imprison and murder anyone who speaks out against or threatens his regime. There is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with that scenario because the dictator is only behaving in the way he sees fit. That’s his perspective. It’s the way he was made.
These examples may describe valid ‘perspectives’ if we go down the path of saying there is no inherent ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, but it’s obvious to any logical mind that the consequences of these narcissistic perspectives run counter to optimal social progress, equity and survival.
Hear, hear, WiserNow! Exactly. Well said. See the logic now, HG?
I do. Mine. Yet again as I have made the point again and again it is a matter of perspective. Ad WN accepts there is no grand arbiter. There is no objective standard. What is “optimal” and for whom? It is once again a matter of perspective. What is optimal for group A may not be optimal for group B. Group A may state “this is a well-run society” Group B disagree. Who decides what is well-run? Nobody because it is based on perspective. I have made this patently clear and I am not having a re-run.
Don’t worry HG, I made my point and I’m just going to leave it there. Enough said. I understand where you’re coming from, and I can see your point of view.
I appreciate what you’re doing with this blog and the help and information you’re providing. That’s more important to me than debating perspectives with you.
Quite alright, I appreciate you articulating your observations and pleased continue to do so, this is a fundamental part of the purpose of this place.
me neither. eye roll.
Glass eye popped out again?
both of them!
Thank you SMH! I saw your conversation with HG about a week ago in relation to moral beliefs and the right and wrong of various perspectives and it got me thinking. Your points were very good and I agreed with you. You made me ponder some large-scale consequences of narcissistic behaviour that are obviously ‘bad’ and difficult to describe any other way.
WiserNow, HG doesn’t agree/understand so I am giving up before I get on one of his ‘bad’ sides. But I appreciate that you read of all of that, understood it and agree. It was kind of funny, actually, because it reminded me of trying to explain some things about humans to my own narc, over and over and over, in different ways, with different words – hopeless!
I understand. You do not get on my ‘bad side’ you are a reader and therefore I do not operate in that way.
Good to know since I just wrote a long response to a different comment 🙂
Thank you @BurntKrispyKeen. I was devasted for a while after finding out what kind of “person” I had been involved with. Now I’m fine. It made me wiser and even more aware of how powerful I am. All this said, my consciousness is clean, it was done “in the name of love”. In my world that’s enough.