The Super Empath
It is well known that our kind target those who have empathic traits. Just like those of my persuasion operate on a spectrum, those who exhibit empathy do so as well. There are those we might regard as the “normals” those people who have some narcissistic traits and some empathic traits. As ever, when I use the words empathic and empathetic I state them with reference to certain traits such as empathy (clearly), honesty, kindness, decency and such like. I do not use the words in the sense of being in tune with the world and the environment. The normal are in the centre, possibly leaning one way towards my kind or the other way towards your kind. It is extremely rare for a normal to be ensnared as primary source because put simply, they do not cut the mustard. Their emotional responses are not sufficient, their empathic traits whilst evident are not sufficient to either bind to us or provide us with the fuel that we need. Such a person would easily pass a homeless person begging, a person crying alone on a bench or somebody who had fallen off their bike and injured themselves. They are self-absorbed but not to the degree that our kind is. They will help if they really have to, but they do not go out of their way to act in a way that causes harm to anybody else.
Thereafter come those who are empaths. Empaths are always targeted as primary sources. They often fulfil secondary roles as well. They are rarer in a tertiary source position since if they are an empath, they would be better suited to either being a primary or secondary source. We would not want those empathic traits to go to waste. The empath has a good range of empathic traits those of honesty, decency, having a strong moral compass and being a good listener, just to list a few of them. They may not have all of the empathic traits that we look for, but they will have several and exhibit them in a concentrated form. Thus this person would look to donate to a charity, hand a wallet in that was found in the street, help a stranger who is in distress, sit and listen to somebody who has problems and acts of a similar nature.
Next comes the Super Empath. This person is not a co-dependent. Both the Super Empath and the co-dependent have many, if not all of the empathic traits that we look for and they have them to a stronger degree than the empath. For example, both might take the homeless person under their wing and take them to a shelter, maybe even house them themselves for a period of time. They would try and locate the person who had lost their wallet in order to hand it back in person rather than say hand it in at a police station first. They will listen to the person with problems and then offer practical solutions to resolve those difficulties. The co-dependent gains validation from such acts through giving and has to do this to an excessive degree even when it goes beyond what is good for themselves, such is their inherent addiction to the act of giving and selflessness. The co-dependent may not actually be that strong an individual (they are in the sense of the abuse that they can soak up) but they are not strong as they have no identity to assert, they must form one through self-flagellation, giving and not taking. They are masochistic in nature, driving themselves to the point of collapse and illness because they lack the strength to escape and the desire to do so from the clutches of our kind. Lesser Narcissists and Mid-Range Narcissists hook up with co-dependents especially because they give, give and give but do not fight back. They challenge themselves, blame themselves and always make excuses for their abuser.
The Super Empath is also a giver but whereas the co-dependent is masochistic in this giving, the Super Empath does so from a position of strength. They hold their ability to empathise, to heal, to fix and impart goodness as a great gift and one which ought not to be abused. They are drawn to our kind less because of the co-dependent’s need to seek validation of identity through a narcissist, but more because they are initially attracted to the apparent emotional output of the narcissist. The false strength which the narcissist exhibits at the outset of the seduction, the confidence, the apparent satisfaction with his self, that he appears comfortable in his own skin, at ease with others, capable of lighting up a room and so forth is a huge attraction to the Super Empath because that person actually sees something of themselves in the narcissist when the narcissist is seducing. That is not to state that the Super Empath is a narcissist. Far from it. But the Super Empath is just as engaging as the narcissist and thus there is a mutual attraction. The Super Empath is also more challenging to the narcissist and therefore is usually the recipient of some Mid-Range narcissists and most often the Greater Narcissist. This is not because the Super Empath is awkward or reticent but rather she will be forthcoming with her empathic traits once she feels that they have been earned. Accordingly, the narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath. This person needs to be coerced into sharing the fruits of their empathy but once that trust has been earned, once the gate has been unlocked the benefits are huge. The Super Empath shines with empathy, glows with decency and pours forth delicious fuel.
This continues during devaluation. The empath and co-dependent are easier to “break” in terms of causing negative fuel to flow. The Super Empath is made of sterner material and will resist the negative machinations of the narcissist at first. This may result in the narcissist dis-engaging if he does not feel able to impact on the Super Empath and seeking fuel elsewhere. The Greater knows who he has ensnared and knows once again he must unlock the fuel source, this time negative, of the Super Empath and once it is done the tidal wave of fuel is to be enjoyed. The Super Empath will remain, wanting to fix the narcissist, exhibiting again the same empathic traits of others on the empathic spectrum, but again being made of sterner stuff, their descent towards numbness and malfunction is far slower than that of the empath. The Super Empath will keep providing the fuel but deteriorates at a slower rate. The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s and very much greater than that of the co-dependent and consequently of all these three classes of empath, the Super Empath is the one more likely to make a bid for escape and thus leave the narcissist with a cessation problem.
The challenge of unlocking both positive and negative fuel proves an attraction for the right type of narcissist because this allows him to assert his superiority and enjoy the challenge. The reward is magnificent. Excellent fuel and such that deteriorates at a much slower rate. The downside is the potential for the Super Empath becoming “aware” of what is happening, becoming unwilling to dedicate further energy to staying with the narcissist to fix and to heal and thus escaping. The Super Empath requires fairly careful management by our kind, but the rewards always mean that this person is a challenge which is often accepted.
106 thoughts on “The Super Empath”
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HG,
1. How do the SE’s resilience and will to engage manifest? Is it more like heated arguments or more like indifference/silent treatment/cold despising remarks towards the narcissist?
2. Is it possible that the SE first tries pleading with the N to return to the golden period, and then suddenly just steps into the “go fuck yourself” attitude, or is it more like the latter from the start of devaluation?
Thank you.
Hi HG, I have a few questions regarding Super Empath and the school classifications of Empaths. First of all I am fascinated by all of these and it does show your amazing insight on human behaviors. I have a few reservations though. There seems to be a hierarchy wherein the Super Empath is the best or the highest type of empath, at least in the mindset of some commenters. Is this classification a hierarchy? Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that I remember you saying that people cannot switch to a different empathic school or cadre. I believe that you said it is fixed. If my memory serves me right, I have a hard time understanding that. I believe that in my lifetime, my empathic and narcissistic traits, its quantity and its robustness have varied depending on several factors that are mostly environmental. The situations that I were in have affected my confidence level, propensity to give, tolerance of b.s., etc. The environmental factors also include my age. I believe that empathic traits are very malleable. It is especially hard for me to accept that certain things are fixed because I am not for fixed mindsets. I always believe that people can grow and that we have the ability to decide what we want to be. I do agree that to an extent, certain empathic traits are in our DNA, such as I just found out from Genomelink that my genes make me more open minded than most people which surprised me. Who would ever think that you can inherit open mindedness. But I still believe that traits and characters of a person are not fixed and can always be improved. It does feel elitist to me. I hope that what I wrote didn’t offend you as I feel a great deal of gratitude and admiration to you.
I just realized that I only asked one question. My other questions are:
2. If the empathic schools is a hierarchical category or ranking, what are they being ranked for?
3. My last question is part of my reservations regarding character traits being fixed and not malleable. You wrote that the Super Empath has the highest personal integrity out of all the other empaths. I have a hard time believing that as an ultimate fact. I believe that personal integrity is very malleable and in my case it has gotten stronger as I aged. Although I do not believe that I am a Super Empath because of several factors, I can honestly say that I have high personal integrity. It has always been very strong since I was young but I have gotten better at asserting it as I aged. Never in my life have I done something that compromised my personal values. Never. Even when I was in my entanglements whether I was trying to make the narcs appreciate me or when I was in fights with them, I have never done anything that didn’t align with my personal values. Even when I was poor under my matrinarc and had nothing in my life, I have always been prideful of my personal integrity. So I think that it’s not always true that a Super Empath will have higher personal integrity than empaths belonging to other schools.
Dear Mommy-Pino,
I read this “The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s” – perhaps differently.
There was a segment where HG had discussed —> ‘was it real’ where he pointed out the focus really should be on “genuine”… It may be that the use of the word integrity (here) is in need of HG’s guidance…
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
VS.
2. the state of being whole and undivided.
Let’s look at this through another lens:
The “Ultra” (or highest order empath) would possibly be that individual who would go to their deathbed (mental hospital with breakdown) upholding the virtues of goodness, truth and moral uprightness. These are the individuals who are truly pure … heart of gold… genuinely lovely (God’s people of Grace).
And, then there are those with a SUPERseding ability to contain (cloak) their dysfunctionally developed inner narcissist and live as empaths (the Co-D’s and the “Supers” – Forme Frustes of sorts). The Co-D was stunted in development and needs the narcissist to feel whole. The Super Empath (also stunted, but further along) individuals live as true empaths upholding kindness, faith, truth… UNTIL… they can’t. When they can’t –> their dissociative capacity to keep their whole person divided fails. Their personal integrity SUPERsedes their moral integrity. They become one with themselves.
The end now justifies the means.
They are no longer honest (they lie), they are no longer merciful (they live with intent to hurt) – in the unified state of self, they are ruthless, unpredictable, and savage —> exhibit fury that may have been contained for decades … and when the fury dissipates… they find themselves exhausted, eyes fixated on the image reflected in the deep dark mirrored waters of the abyss of sorrow and despair, seeing what they have always feared they really were–> it is not the explosion that drains their life force -> it is the effort of either getting jack back in the box (if he was wound to the point of popping out and can still be put back in) or working through the complex chaos of a unified self that is now engaged in civil war.
Hope this helps…
HG?
Wow, FF Your statement made a big impression on me.
In relation to “my” narcissist, I am honest, but I am not honest, I am merciful, at the same time tormenting him with my unwavering attitude and his weaknesses (which he has – the need for control, domination and others). I attract and repel at the same time. I give admiration and contempt. I mix and mix.
With regard to him (and only), I become as contradictory as he is. And … I don’t see any contradiction in this 🙂
I do not have time now, but I will come back to this thread for sure.
Hi Joa, your response to FF is exactly what went through my mind as I read her comment. I have, can and sometimes still do look very much like a narcissist, both in my thinking and my behaviors, but, always and only with regard to the narcissists in my life. It doesn’t happen with non-narcissists, it just doesn’t. My empathy does not allow that toward people who haven’t earned it, it’s that simple. Looking back this had been true my entire life. It is one of the things that is so clear cut in my mind that it helped me accept the status of empath when HG told me I was one, it was confirmation that he was correct.
Though not quite a true Super, I also have very high personal integrity, meaning, to me, that I know what will make me feel good about how I treat another person, it is a gold standard and I will not bend it. I have to live with myself, if that’s considered by some a nefarious reason, so be it. The flip side of that coin is that I also know what I am willing to accept as treatment and will either walk away or stop bad behavior toward me once it reaches my (short) limit. I will tolerate more directed at myself than I will directed at my children or others that I care about (Savior showing). I have left many relationships as a result, when there shows a brief pattern of misbehavior. There may have been an attempt at fixing things first, depending on the nature of the relationship. That said, the one area where I struggle is the romantic relationships, those I put up with far too much for far too long. If I can get my ET under control and meet a non-narcissist, I hope to have an opportunity to try one more time. It will mean applying the same standard I have for everyone else to that romantic person, I do not know if it is possible. I think the key is “non-narcissist”!
Forme Fruste,
Very interesting comment. Regarding the underlying motivations that ‘drive’ the SE or make the SE tick, I find that what you have described is correct in some ways and incorrect in others.
“The Super Empath (also stunted, but further along) individuals live as true empaths upholding kindness, faith, truth… UNTIL… they can’t. When they can’t –> their dissociative capacity to keep their whole person divided fails. Their personal integrity SUPERsedes their moral integrity. They become one with themselves.
The end now justifies the means.”
When you say, “their personal integrity SUPERsedes their moral integrity. They become one with themselves.” – yes, you have a point here. The ‘moral integrity’ of the SE – to be empathic; to be peaceful; to be positive; and to think of the greater good – IS superseded by a ‘personal integrity’ to be self-protective and to maintain their own individual autonomy. I would agree with this.
When you say, “The end now justifies the means.” – no, I would not agree with this. The ‘end’ for the SE is not to overpower or ‘win’ in the same sense that the narcissist wants to overpower or win.
The empathic nature of the SE is not satisfied with domination or rivalry. It aims for harmony and compromise – a situation that can benefit both parties so that both reach a satisfying ‘end’. The narcissist aims for domination and uncompromising power. Perhaps this is where fuel comes in. The ‘fuel’ that drives each of them is not the same kind of fuel. The narcissist’s fuel is machiavellian in nature. A true empath’s fuel is not.
After giving this some thought, I believe it is the ‘imprinting’ or conditioning since birth (or a very young age) that creates the ‘glue’ that makes the SE ‘click’ with the narcissist. This glue isn’t there or it’s not as strong for the SE when it comes to normals or other empaths. The imprinting is like an invisible inner magnet that is very, very difficult to ignore or overcome. The inner magnet is like an unconscious invisible radar that beeps into action in the presence of the particular narcissist. This is especially the case when the SE has no awareness of the dynamic. This doesn’t happen with all narcissists either. It happens with the ‘right’ kind of narcissist whose personal attributes satisfy the unconscious or conscious wants of the SE.
During the seduction phase, everything is great. The dynamic is positive, the SE’s inner drives (or aims) and wants are being satisfied and it feels like the relationship is meant to be. It is all rosy. The positive aspects of the relationship align with the SE’s ‘moral integrity’ to be kind, caring, honest, etc. The SE’s aims – to have a positive, satisfying relationship – are being fulfilled.
When the devaluation begins, the SE’s inner aim to have a satisfying reciprocal relationship are no longer being met (or not being met to the level wanted). The narcissist is behaving in a contrary way to the SE’s ideals. However, the twin inner drives of the SE:
– The glue that makes the SE ‘click’ with the narcissist; and
– The desire to have a satisfying, reciprocal relationship
are still in place.
The SE endeavours to maintain his/her ‘personal integrity’ i.e. to retain a sense of pride, autonomy and status in the relationship AND at the same time, attempts to retain the values he/she wants within the relationship.
When the narcissist doesn’t respond or reciprocate – because the narcissist aims for domination – the SE tries to assert his/her aims again and again. When this doesn’t work, the SE does exhibit fury. It is a fury based in anger, frustration and impatience. The SE’s reserves of empathy have been eroded and his/her boundaries have been overstepped too many times. The fury is based in self-protection. The SE at this point – via the fury – has chosen self-protection over and above the relationship.
I would disagree with you that the SE “lives with intent to hurt” or “is ruthless, unpredictable and savage”. These states are NOT the aims of an SE who has emotional empathy. The SE’s emotional empathy is eroded, however, empathy is still within the SE as a ‘driver’ of behaviour. The SE is not at heart willingly sadistic or ruthless even when driven by fury. the SE’s aim is self-protection. The explosion that drains their force does lead to sorrow and despair, however, it is not an ‘abyss’. There is no ‘creature’.
The sorrow and despair are based in a feeling of failure or hopelessness. There is a sense of self-incrimination or disappointment even when the SE is aware that the explosion was caused by a need for self-protection or autonomy. This is because the SE is not prepared to give the narcissist full control.
To the SE, the ‘fury’ is justified even though it is ‘unnatural’ to the SE. The aim was not necessarily to damage the relationship (if the SE believes the relationship is worthwhile or salvageable). The fury was a case of emotion overriding reason. At the basis of the emotion, the aim was to make a point, however, that aim ‘failed’ because the SE still isn’t being genuinely heard or acknowledged. The narcissist’s aim is not to hear or acknowledge but to overpower and dominate. The two are at loggerheads.
After the fury dissipates, the SE feels a need to genuinely repair the relationship. It is the SE who will do this because the narcissist will not. To the narcissist, taking steps to repair the relationship (through a hoover or love-bombing) is not genuine – it is an aim to achieve control. Genuinely repairing the relationship would be contrary to the narcissist’s aim.
The ‘glue’ that makes the SE stay with the narcissist is still in place and still holding firm throughout this episode of fury. While the relationship is still valuable, worthwhile or necessary to the SE, the SE doesn’t think, “well, that was a terrible situation and I want out of this relationship now”. The SE holds on because he/she still feels attached and will try again to salvage the relationship. At the point when the SE realises the relationship is indeed not worth repairing or saving; or the SE has well and truly had enough and values autonomy over the relationship; then the SE will decide to disengage or escape.
I can see the points you are making Forme Fruste, and to some extent I do agree, however, at the heart or basis of their ‘aims’, I think you may be assuming that the aims of the narcissist and the SE are the same. I don’t believe they are.
WiserNow, I agree with you 💯. Everything that you just described resonated through my whole being and I know without a shadow of a doubt that when my “fury” was ignited it came from a place of absolute self preservation as well as integrity to myself.
When the light bulb turned on inside of me to the truth of what my narc was actually doing, it struck something so deep inside of me that I could not contain it. The anger was actually extreme pain and hurt coming out. Shock and disbelief of what I was seeing to be true versus what he had made me believe and what I wanted to believe. It overcame me and in that moment I knew that I knew what he was and what he was doing to me. It went against every moral fiber in my body. His mask was off and I could not stand it! I was in disbelief to the point that the fury rose up inside me and I had to let it out. My pride also was wounded and this narcissistic trait was now engaged in the mix. I was humiliated and how dare he do that to me!
Once this “episode” was over I absolutely felt remorse and pain from the event. It was intense. I still loved and wanted this person. I tried after that to make things right and to salvage the relationship but to be honest I believe I wounded him to the point that there was no way it could have gotten better. I eventually, withdrew and blocked him. There has been no attempts to Hoover me so I’m guessing he is now fully involved with the new IPPS. I know they can always find a way to find you if they are motivated enough. I just hope the interventions I put in place are good enough so he can’t reach out in any way. I am thankful he hasn’t since tried!
You are so accurate when you talk about “the glue” that we have for the “right” kind of narcissist. My narcissist had me so addicted and stuck to him it was intoxicating. I still can feel those pangs of wanting this man. I honestly would be afraid if he turned up in person in front of me because the addiction was so intense I am afraid I would completely lose myself again in it! Thank God he lives in another state 2 hours away!
Thanks for sharing your views it is eye opening! And thanks to FF for a very interesting take on it!
Hi Wendy,
Thanks for your comment and for sharing your views as well. Reading your comment resonated with me too.
At the point when the ‘fury’ ignites, it is an intense and overwhelming feeling, as you have described. When it has happened to me, it was an intense feeling of anger. The anger arose from, again like you have described, a sense of humiliation and hurt pride. In my case, it was a sense of saying, “I have tried again and again! How many times do I have to (effing) spell it out and you are STILL not willing to acknowledge me!!!!”
After the episode of fury and anger has subsided, the remorse and self-questioning is also intense.
The one thing that you describe that didn’t quite resonate with me was that “a light bulb turned on inside of me to the truth of what my narc was actually doing”. In my own case – before I was aware about narcissism – the ‘fury’ came after a series of abusive behaviours and manipulations and it was like a ‘pinnacle’ of anger after previous feelings of annoyance or frustration were suppressed. It was a bit like a volcano erupting after the hot lava couldn’t be held back any longer.
Before I knew about narcissism, I thought that the abusive behaviours and manipulations were somewhat ‘normal’ even though they were painful and unwanted. It’s difficult to explain. It’s not that I enjoyed or wanted the abuse, far from it. It was a case of tolerating the abuse and trying to find ways to fix and eliminate the abuse, because I thought that it could be done. I thought that it was indeed possible for the narcissist to be ‘cured’ or for them to be ‘fixed’.
It’s worth saying again that this was before I was truly aware about narcissism and the underlying psychology that makes it clear that a narcissist cannot be ‘cured’.
My positive feelings for the narcissist ran deep and were genuine. I was prepared to hold on and keep trying to salvage the relationship because I could see the positive sides to the narcissist and this made it worthwhile to try to ‘fix’ the negative sides.
Dear Wendy,
I’m really glad you wrote your comment. It helps to know someone else has had the same experiences and feelings.
In my own case, there have been plenty of times when episodes of ‘fury’ have meant that people who have seen it then associate me with being either angry all the time or unstable or unpredictable or aggressive or unfriendly or obstinate or whatever. It’s something that’s difficult to ‘bounce back’ from with regard to how it is ‘processed’ and perceived by people that know you. I think people can’t quite reconcile how somebody who is kind and generous one day can turn into a tyrant swearing obscenities the next. So, they probably use their own cognitive dissonance to believe that the ‘real’ version of the person must be the angry version who can’t quite be trusted. That’s my gut feeling anyway.
Yes, there is anger and there are harsh, angry or insulting words. However, the anger is not sustained and it’s not deliberate. It is a case of emotion overriding rational thought. At the point when the emotion manifests as ‘fury’, it’s something that is beyond the control of the rational mind. I don’t think people fully understand that, or they can’t relate to that to the extent that allows them to understand it.
I believe that it’s something people can’t forgive easily because they think that the ‘fury’ is either an overreaction or something that an intelligent adult ‘should’ be able to control. In my experience, it has taken a lot of inner self-understanding, long periods of going back into my own history and my parents’ histories, analysing my past relationships in terms of what happened and how each person reacted etc etc. I am now much more aware of my own emotional reactions and, of course, I’m also aware about narcissism.
This is not something I’m saying to garner sympathy or pity. Not at all. It’s something I have experienced a number of times over many years. That’s why it is a good feeling to read your comment and to see that it also happens to someone else and it’s not some kind of ‘failing’ in my own ability to ‘control’ my thoughts and emotions.
Thanks again Wendy. Your thoughts and experiences resonate very much with me and your comment is appreciated.
Hello FF, thank you for your thoughts. They are interesting.
For me, personal integrity means your alignment with your core values and principles. My personal values and principles doesn’t have to be the same as yours but the degree and consistency of me sticking with them would show how strong or weak my integrity is. It’s not possible for a person with strong personal integrity to be a codependent for a narcissist because to be a codependent means to abandon yourself in order to choose to serve the narcissist. Abandoning yourself is sacrificing your personal integrity. That’s why for someone who has strong personal integrity, cessation is highly likely because for them, choosing to abandon their personal core or principles or self worth is too unbearable that they cannot continue the engagement with the narcissist. The more you know yourself the higher your personal integrity is. There is no cloak when someone has high personal integrity because to have personal integrity means you know who you are in your core and you are attuned with yourself and you choose to be authentic.
Hello MP,
This thread about the SE is interesting and I wanted to ‘like’ your comment. For some reason, I can’t access this article in WordPress, so I couldn’t give it a like in the normal way. The article dates back to March 2019 – maybe that’s why.
What you say about the Codependent is interesting. I recently read HG’s book ‘Chained’ and it was an eye-opener regarding how far the Codependent is willing to sacrifice him or herself to stay with the narcissist. The SE does not depend on the narcissist to the extent that a Codependent does (i.e. for a sense of existence).
Wow MP, I agree 100% with your assessment of high personal integrity and you justgave me a huge piece of my missing sense of self. It’s been there all along, I just didn’t realize what it was. Thank you!!
FF, interesting choice of name 🙂 It was interesting to read your thoughts, especially in relation to the Co-D and the narcissist. Your words “The Co-D was stunted in development and needs the narcissist to feel whole”- I can understand this from my own life experiences, with the vulnerabilities and being forced to ‘rely’ on people and not given the independence (to be ‘me’) rather than being controlled by narcissists.
I liked you using the quote “The end justifies the means” that was first used by Niccolo Machiavelli and also has been used by other people. It depends on how the quote is used, for what reason and how it is interpreted.
Your last paragraph gives an interesting ‘slant’ and reminds me of HG’s ‘The Ageing Narcissist’, ‘The Fading Star’, ‘The Narcissist’s Reality Gap’ other articles too – I had come across something about ‘collapsed narcissism’ where it was suggested that a person’s narcissism ‘implodes’ within the person – possibly likened to some kind of catatonic state, albeit momentarily? What about narcissism and dementia?
The MRN I knew was showing signs of memory loss, confusion and certainly was ‘selecting’ younger female sources of fuel (whether intimate or not). His ‘mask’ slipped more often too.
Does an unaware SE with dissociative personality reach the point as you describe? It is quite a possibility. It sounds very similar to the journey I found myself on prior to coming to this site. It certainly was a ‘civil war’ of some kind. With my thought patterns, my emotions. For me, personally, the aftermath of such a ‘war’ within myself, in my view, from my learning that I have achieved about narcissism, myself, my past – I would agree that ‘the end justifies the means’ because my life before I knew anything about narcissism now has ‘clarity’ and have no longer have the need to dwell on the past.
WiserNow, Wendy, MommyPino, Asp Emp, it was a real pleasure to read your comments. I also know what you describe from the autopsy.
I spotted a fellow empath today while in line at the grocery store. She apologized when the cashier made a mistake, she apologized to me (behind her in line) for taking too long. Then she gave a dollar to a homeless person asking for money outside the door.
Made me think of you, HG. And how easy it is to *spot* an empath if you know what to look for. She would be easy to zero in on by a Narcissist. Glad you’re across the pond today, HG.
Fellow empaths, this is something to be aware of. It was just way too easy to notice.
~Hope
Fair observation.
Hope
To avoid detection, I wear sunglasses and cover my head with a hood now.
HG, do you think George Michael is a super empath?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diYAc7gB-0A
I’m on a George Michael binge this week (even Wham : P ). Puts me in a great mood.
GM had both empathic and narcissistic traits. Not a narcissist clearly. Was he a Super Empath – it is possible, I have not analysed him sufficiently to provide an accurate view. Exceptional artist nonetheless, I have been listening to some ‘Older’ actually this week.
HG, I guess GEorge would have been considered as hyper sexual. Would this have been due to his inherent addiction to Ns as opposed to addicted to sex?
Thank you
But was he hyper sexual?
Thank you! Regardless that man is undeniably hot and I was so thrilled to be reacquainted with the “hungry schoolgirl fantasy” of my youth this week, gay or no. Beautiful voice. I will put “older” on play.
awwww I second you on that nunya! I’m so pleased he’s not an N.
Years ago, I’d suspected he was Borderline, given his risk taking and somewhat self destructive behaviors but his seemingly obvious empathic traits indicate a true kindness as well.
I hadn’t given it much thought since then and not since finding HGs site.
Maybe he is a Super Empath? I’ll have to look into this more.
Yeah I love him to death as an example you can be wild and kinda fucked and not be a narc (and I relate). He was rebellious? I wish he was still around. Let me know if you see anything interesting! To me every single line and concept in that song are what I think of as SE.
This was very well thought out and kind of a mind f*ck to be honest which is kind of nice in a strange way. I like to have to think about things more in depth
As an SE we must push to be like Christ. We are given this burden not as a curse but it is our higher selves encouraging us to be the greatest empaths to ever live ( like Christ) able to be among the poor and oppressed without taking their mental ailments, but battling away the physical ailments and still able to heal and lead. That is the character of Christ and God. The mission is to master alchemy in order to be able to do this. I recommend you all go google the mastering alchemy course ( I dont want to post a link here incase it gets blocked) . We need to master alchemy to rise above all of our perceived and felt weaknesses to unlock a truly Godly and holy power and mission given to us,
So you believe it is only the SE that must push to be Christ like? They were given this burden to be the greatest empaths that lived…..Let’s trade I want to be an SE and you can be a Contagion then get back to me and tell me about your experiences……I have a million dolllars you will be begging to trade back from being a Contagion to an SE and know humility.
We’d be better off mastering the rejection of bullshittery such as this.
It always makes me bring a wry grin when the Super Empath article comes up. Invariably it makes a great conversation starter. That is good.
I read, as much as I can do, the comments and I always ponder. Why DO people, largely women, consider themselves a SE? What I almost never see on here is the counter view; the ones that really ARE SE’s and have to live with it on a day to day basis.
I am a SEM and I can say right now, far from being uber glamorous it is not. It is NOT a blessing and it IS a curse. I am living proof of that.
The reason is simple, you are perceived as not one thing neither are you the other. It does not matter if you know within yourself that you are an Empath. It matters how others’ perceive you. Believe me; they perceive you as a narcissist and by extension; an abuser.
That is a very, VERY bitter pill to swallow. It’s become even worse since I have become weaponised. I do not regret for one second my ‘weaponisation’. Indeed, it was absolutely needed and required that I become fully self-aware. What it enabled me to do was finally get a grip on my ET and ER. However, that is also a negative.
Society has this view that all Empaths are needy, overly emotional, weepy, nostalgic, silly, sentimental, not able to logically reason, hysterical, harridans – shall I go on?
Of course, Empaths can and often do display these characteristics. Heaven knows I have in the past. Adds further fuel to the fire. The fire being of course the smear campaign that was started against you pretty much when you agreed to enter into a formal relationship with the Narcissist. You just didn’t know it. And why should you? Your partner is your lover but also your friend. Friends don’t speak badly of other friends. Or do they?
At first, it will have stated gradually. As time goes on, it builds and builds because deep down, the narcissist knows that every relationship MUST run it’s course. Even if they wish it wasn’t true. So when it DOES end either through the Narc disengaging or the Empath escaping; it’s all there.
Believe me – if you have children. You. Are. Fucked.
My two greatest fears 1 – I will be abandoned and 2 – My children will be taken from me. Those twin fears played on my mind after I escaped the Ex. The father of my two children.
I have lived both of those realities.
Richard Dawkins (fucker) talks about ‘meme theory’ in one of his ponderous tomes. I hate to agree with the twat but he is right – how do you kill an idea? Especially in a childs’ mind? Simple answer; you can’t. There are very sound reasons for this, least of all Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
What has this to do with being a SE? Everything. YOU are painted black. Your own behaviour (lack of emotional thinking etc) further adds to it. Just because you have a damn sight more control than other Empaths do. But let’s be frank; any school of Empath cannot win.
You will either have a breakdown in the court itself (and I have read the testimonies) or you will present as someone who is a narc and especially if your own abuser decides to paint you that way. They will say – But look! No ER/ET? This woman is an abuser when she just has a grip of her senses (Supernova for example).
It’s fucked. The system is loaded.
I do thank HG for everything he is doing but… yeah SE’s. We are a weird bunch of freaks.
#sorrynotsorry
I feel like I have a sixth sense that I’ve learned to listen to over time. My brother was beaten up at a rest stop once and left for dead (he survived), and I was in a different state and fell into the deepest depression that night and didn’t know why. I dropped by a relatives house for a few minutes and on my drive after leaving there, I had this terrible depression come over me. I was running down a list wondering what triggered that awful feeling, praying for it to go away, and now I think it’s because I’m absorbing other people’s anxiety sometimes. I think I have a mix of something psychic, a sixth sense, sometimes that I’ve learned to pay attention to more. Some narcissists too have that sixth sense sometimes. There’s an esp where you can read each other’s thoughts sometimes with certain people.
But isn’t that what being an empath is supposed to mean and what separates us from normals?
People are drawn to something in me that neither they or I understand. They’ve said they just like working with me, that they just trust me, they just know I’m the right one for them, these vague feelings that speak to them. People will spill out their thoughts to me, and say they feel so much better, and I’m thinking- really? you are? I was just trying to pay enough attention to them talking as they interrupted what I was doing, but I’m glad they feel better and especially that they’re done and I can get back to what I was doing. I don’t go out of my way to help people, as I see a lot of them just want attention more than anything, and some people make a job out of begging. I will help anything that’s helpless and I can see for myself needs help. I will stand up against wrong, and I don’t mean physically chasing someone down, I mean intellectually.
I have learned now from narcsite to be comfortable being less accommodating to people, to worry less about them, to not worry about being overly polite. I’m learning to be more normal. But being an empath means you have extra emotional sensories, doesn’t it? Our narcissist siblings got less emotions and we got extra portions of it.
Kel
I can identify with most of the feelings and situations in your post. Had a similar experience with my brother as well. Strange tension in the evening. Got up from bed and husband asked what was wrong. I replied something is wrong with my brother (hadn’t seen him for ages). Feeling got panicky (which I am not prone to feeling). Went back to bed but did not sleep. Call came from my mother in the wee hours. My brother was arrested and sitting in a jail cell way down south in the U.S (I am in Canada). Sheriff said my brother was terrified and losing his shit. Guess thats what I was sensing. Not the only time it’s happened either so I assume it’s common for empaths.
NA, yes, I get those premonitions or whatever you wanna call it sometimes too. The last time it happened was recently, my brother and his wife were expecting a baby and one night I had a dream during which she had complications. I got up really nervous just to find out she was bleeding and was taken to the ER the night before. Thankfully everything went well. It’s a little bit spooky, but when it happens I don’t think about it much.
Do Super empaths feel the least guilt than other schools of empaths?
No, but it will manifest in different ways owing to the application of different traits.
Thank you HG!!
Is it possible for a Super Empath to also have codependent traits just like standard empaths?
Do all super empaths possess similar or uniform empathic and narcissistic traits or can they vary? Are those traits affected by which cadre they belong to?
A Super Empath gives as much as Codependents, what differentiates a Super Empath from a Standard Empath with codependent tendencies?
Yes, nobody is 100% Super Empath – they have traits from at least two schools, often more, but have a prevailing school.
HG
What of the Contagion? Is there from your perspective a specific trait that separates them from the other schools?
Emotional empathy is what connects all the schools so there will always be some overlapping of traits. I know from experience,observing, and listening the other schools do not have the same abilities to the degree I have and they have the ability to feel their own hatred where I do not.
This will be addressed in the article, Twilight.
Thank you HG
You are welcome Twilight, it is an expansive answer and thus to save my fingers I refer to the forthcoming article.
No article on standards? Standard like a poodle I guess. I had a standard poodle once.
Claire, I agree! I want more articles on Standard Empaths as well. Right now I’m guessing myself to be a Standard Empath close to the codependency area of the sliding scale. But it would be great to have more articles on that so I can feel more sure.
I have so many questions in regards to Contagions. HG I know you have an article coming out soon but I’m hoping to get feedback from other empaths who share this trait because I think it might be a big part of why I’m stuck.
I’ve always been sensitive to people’s energy and I can feel the vibe of a room almost instantaneously and therefore I know how to adapt myself and my energy so that I feel at ease and put others at ease too. Or I know immediately if something is wrong and I will leave.
I also have physiological reactions to other people, especially a spouse that I’m living with. Things like insomnia, anxiety, physical pain and I need a lot of down time. And almost 100% of the time I know who is calling or texting me before I even look.
So in terms of being around a narcissist (with this last guy in particular), is it ever presence that has me so connected to him? Is that standard? I’ve never felt someone so strongly before and he’s not my first narc but probably the most dangerous.
For example:
Most of our communication was over text but I could feel his energy, even if he was out of town travelling. I could feel if things I would say were making him excited/angry/jealous/nervous. Sometimes I would start sweating because I knew he was feeling uneasy. So that kind of physical reaction made it somewhat easier for me to find an appropriate response to cool him down and it usually worked but I don’t think he realized what I was doing.
Also, if I did say something that he didn’t like for whatever reason that would invoke a silent treatment, I knew exactly what he was thinking. I could hear his voice in my head. This happened a few times while he was out of town for work. This made me blame myself and feel worthless and like I was failing even more because I knew why I was being punished even though he wasn’t communicating with me. This sounds totally paranoid and crazy I know so I’m hoping that someone else has experienced this or I’ve gone completely nuts.
The first time I tried ending things with him via text I could feel his rage over the phone even though he was keeping his words to a minimum. Then I could feel deep sadness, mine and his. To him and his lack of emotional range, I would come across as being over emotional but my reactions were coming from a very deep sense of knowing and feeling.
The second time around, a few months later when I called him out I could feel his fury even though he was blocked and I really felt that I might be in danger. I was in my backyard and my whole body was trembling. Thankfully he never knew where I lived. This was before I knew anything about NPD and psychopaths. For the next month all I could do was sleep and shower. I was taking three showers a day. It took a lot of work to get my nervous system to reset. Over the holidays I had a strong sense that he was in a deep depression. I recently listened to an interview he gave for his work (I know, wrong no contact) and he sounds miserable.
And when I was around him in person, I didn’t feel like myself. I felt like I was being a bratty teenager at times. I was shocked at some of the things that would come out of my mouth, that most likely wounded him. I think my inner narc was coming out to protect me. I was absorbing all of his energy and I CRAVED to be his submissive on a physical and psychological level. It was way more than just a kinky fantasy.
So I’m hoping that this is a normal contagion response to the dark energy of a malignant narcissist. Maybe because his energy is so strong I can pick up on that frequency very easily??
The reason I’m worried is because I feel such a strong connection to him that my emotional/spiritual side believes that we have some sort of fate or soul contract and I want to move away from that kind of thinking because it is really keeping me locked onto him. HELP!!!!
Phew! I need a cigarette!
See just writing about this has my heart racing.
Empathing ain’t easy!
Twisted Heart
That left me feeling nauseous.
After I leave work I will speak about my relationship with my ex.
Twisted Heart
I can only speak for myself.
Everyone affects me, doesn’t matter if they are one of HGs kind, empathetic/empathic or another Contagion.
When I come here I have to prepare myself for the onslaught of emotions I get hit with.
When I get home from work this evening I will speak more openly of the dynamics between my ex and myself.
Ok Twilight,
Thanks for reaching out. Sorry it made you feel nauseous. I get it.
Twilight,
I’m sure you’ll address this in your original response but what do you mean by “feel their own hatred”?
Twisted Heart
I do not know how to hate. I have felt hatred via another so I understand what it is but I have never felt hatred of my own towards anyone.
I understand people on a level and my ability to step into another’s shoes is so precise I never developed the emotion.
Thanks Twilight. It sounds like you are very in tune. I have a hard time feeling hate too, no matter how much someone hurts me. I might take a break from them to protect my energy but I can never turn my back on anyone. Again I thought that was just codependency.
Twisted Heart
I don’t have a hard time not feeling it, i don’t. Plain and simple, now I do feel anger. And that when triggered can look to others as if I feel hatred by what I say and do. Truth makes people uncomfortable especially when faced with their own truth.
Hmmm…I never really thought about it that way. I can definitely feel anger big time. Maybe not hatred though. I can feel it if it’s directed at me. Let’s ask the expert😉. HG what does hate feel like?
Read ‘Malice’.
Twisted Heart
Emotion doesn’t have to be direct at me to feel it, it is more intense of a feeling if it is.
I can feel HG, pissing him off isn’t at the top of my to do list….EVER. I have experienced absorbing a Greaters malice once….it took almost two years to purge myself of it and I am still haunted by it. The respect for HG I have is deep for what he controls, not just for the work, books, and time he provides here educating of his perspective and those like him.
Twilight,
Thank you again for your input. 2 years to purge yourself from a greater? That sounds awful. I’m sorry that it still haunts you. Do you have any coping mechanisms or self care techniques that protect you or help you to purge others energy? Do you practice Reiki? I’m trying to find ways to not let things affect me so deeply. I’m like a sticky sponge. I think that might be why it takes me a long time to get over things.
Twisted Heart
Yes two years, I believe with every fiber of my being I was turned into a narcissist. My comment I am still working on to you may provide insights as to why I am still haunted by the memory. I was already in a “supernova” his actions cause something that pushed me beyond anger and I stepped into the darkness.
My home is a calm place. I use oils in many ways from keeping anxiety and stress low to my health. I also use a mixture of herbs.
Music, specific frequencies mixed with sounds of nature, nature thou is a must for me I use all the elements yet fire and water are my two favorites.
I am a healer and use various techniques in helping others heal in my personal life.
My awareness to my environment is what keeps me grounded and trusting my instincts.
Dear Twilight,
It has taken me a couple of days to process what you wrote and I wanted to make sure that I made time to respond to you appropriately. I understand how difficult it would be for you to have to call on these memories and I can sense that it has probably been very triggering for you. It has triggered a lot in me as well. I understand what if feels like to not even want to say their name due to everpresence. Sometime it’s like he’s a 3D Hologram, it’s so real I can feel his body on me and hear his voice and we were only together for a brief affair. I can only imagine how painful it would have been in the long term.
I had the same experience with jealousy. I have never been a jealous person. I am always genuinely happy for others and I have no desire to control other people. Live and let live. I like how you describe it, as “owning” it. It wasn’t your emotion but you were picking it up from him. Just after a few weeks with him I found myself comparing myself to friends and colleagues and thinking how he would like them more. I seen the world differently. There is a definitive point in my life now. who I was before I met him and who I am now. I also noticed that I have become even more sensitive to energy after this whole experience. I see faces but I mostly feel their energy and I find it very overwhelming. Can you relate to that?
My narc didn’t show me how he could imitate emotions but one night I was facing him and he made a happy face/sad face/happy face/sad face. It was so odd. I think he was trying to read me or he was trying to tell me what he was. I just smiled and kissed him. That was the night he commanded his dog to kill me and then gave me the death stare. The mask was definitely off that night. It was so strange and scary. When he would send me photos I thought his eyes were brown but they were very much blue like mine in person. I also told him that I seen two different sides to him but none of this was making me realize what I was dealing with yet.
Somehow he knew what buttons to push on me too. The things he said that hurt me were deep childhood traumas that I never talked to him or really anyone about. For example, Out of nowhere telling me I was a 4.5 and then just staring at me to see how I would react. This triggered a deep wound from a comment my dad had said to me when I was 8 that I would never be beautiful. On our 3rd date he made a racist comment which triggered me because my older sister is black and she never grew up with us because my dad was a racist. Our grandmother raised her. He knew nothing about my personal life, I had just met him. To me being racist is even worse than being a narcissist. It’s all hate though so it makes sense that he would feel that way. I have always been nervous around dogs because one attacked me when I was 5. I really liked his dog, he was always well behaved and sweet until the dog launched up on me one night when he opened his door and later that night he sicced his dog on me. Those three instances really stick with me. Like how did he know this stuff? Maybe I’m reading too much into it but HG’s article “Prayer for the Victim” explains this exactly. It’s like they can see into your soul and penetrate you with their eyes.
I get the images too. I call them flashes. They’re very vivid. Way more than just imagining something. I have seen him in the past and the future and it scares the shit out of me. It’s the reason I’m afraid to go to certain places alone now. When I see him in my dreams he is always calculating something evil.
This will sound unbelievable to anyone who reads this and I swear on my children I knew nothing about narcissists and primary sources or shelfing but the last night we were together and I let myself open up to him fully, I fell asleep in his arms and I had a dream that night that we were moving in together and he was showing me the master closet. It was a huge white closet full of shelves. I swear!!!! I woke up right away with the most extreme migraine I’ve ever had in my life. I thought my whole head was going to explode. He didn’t have any advil so I had to leave. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough. At the time I thought I was having an allergic reaction to the dog hair but I think my body was literally rejecting him. It wasn’t until a week later I was talking to a friend who is a social worker and she recognized his behaviour as NPD. That’s when I started researching and it hit me. He was the big empty closet and he wanted me to fill it all up. I don’t know if it was my subconscious telling me or if I was reading his mind. When I looked over at him in the night, he fell asleep with a smile on his face. I thought to myself, I’m so glad I followed my heart and came back to him but I think he was smiling because he knew he finally had me.
I wish I knew then to protect myself the way you did and not let him get that close. Instead I did the complete opposite. I missed him so much that when I got the chance to see him again I told myself to stay soft with him and let myself be vulnerable this time. I thought I could change things this time around. I gave him everything and we both went very deep in our own ways. This is really hard to write about but I feel like I need to get it out. The come down was brutal and I went to a very dark place inside of me and called him out. I needed him to hear those words. I know it wasn’t even close to what you went through but it helps me to see some similarities. Sometimes I wonder if I’m overreacting or just letting my imagination get the best of me but you have confirmed everything that I have been afraid of.
A healer friend of mine basically performed an exorcism to get him off of me. She damned that energy back to where it came from for all eternity and severed all bonds and contracts that we may have had or have in the future. Not sure if any of that really works though but I felt a big shift and it was a nudge in the right direction. I think he may have underestimated me a bit. His arrogance led him to think that he could continue to string me along but because of my past it was all too familiar and I needed to get the fuck out. I feel like he met his match. The only difference is all I want is to love him and he can only hate.
I am terribly sorry that you lost your baby girl. There are not enough words to describe how sincerely sorry I am to know you have gone through that. It would be a nightmare. It was sickening to read. And that your granddaughter also lost a friend and an auntie. My heart really goes out to you and I am so incredibly grateful that you are willing to share such painful memories with me and everyone here for the sake of helping each other not feel so alone.
Can I ask you why you don’t block him? I’m only wondering because I struggle with that too. What did you mean by your emotional thinking overrides your logic? How does that impact you?
This has been a big purge for me ( what better time than the full moon). When I was with him everything felt heightened and I can remember every detail so clearly. It’s helping me to get some distance by sharing it here on this site.
Thank you again Twilight. This means so much to me. I wish you all the best on this journey.
Please take care.
TH
Sounds like Empaths can’t be pigeonholed after all!
I will not be pigeonholed! Part of my reason for being here is for my own reality and truth and to transcend narcissistic stagnation. What is the point of growth and development if we must rest upon mere acceptance, I believe knowledge is a point of departure.
Ha, your comments are always so good, kel.
Nunya!
I love everything you just said here. Would you mind discussing further what you mean by transcending narcissistic stagnation. I’m intrigued.
Hi TH! Thank you. Here is my view on it-
Yes, I mean that N’s view everything in black and white. So my mother for example… certain behaviors are good, others are bad (I copied this model for a time, btw).
So then if I do or don’t do certain things I am bad. Unless I conform (stagnate myself in a role), I remain bad….
or perhaps even if I do conform, I can’t keep up with her scorecard anyway.
It is actually a very extreme form of pressure utilizing pain and stress (unconsciously) by removing basic survival needs (love, affection, approval) to secure theirs.
N’s label everything, a useful process, and much can be accurate and necessary.
But as MP pointed out recently in a comment
-“except for a miracle”
and I have kind of mentioned
-spiritual crises, such as ego-deflation and the like
-and empaths always go back to emotion, which I personally think can be superior to logic in the right context
well, I’m saying the empathic view is different and I try to remind myself not to forget that when I’m here.
So for example:
HG has brilliant categories for behavior patterns of empaths and he says that they are permanent, and also NPD is permanent, and we can look at for example the Myers Briggs test which is also said to be unchangeable once personality is established, as well as I.Q. etc…
And there is great truth in those things. I enjoy them as tools for self-reflection and personal development. BUT it is not entirely truth because first of all they are *slices* of truth. But second of all, and more importantly they are very much based on perspective. So in HG’s world, I am
x, y, z- willing to sacrifice myself for certain prime aims and provision X type of fuel. I am tertiary. I am Carrier. I attract X type of narcissist.
But I have to step outside of that also.
In empath world I am something else I think and I do believe in miracles and change. I believe the spirit is beyond all that anyway. I always feel like narcissists see one thing and that’s it.
Thank you Nunya for taking the time to write back. I loved how you articulated your thoughts. Especially: “It is actually a very extreme form of pressure utilizing pain and stress (unconsciously) by removing basic survival needs (love, affection, approval) to secure theirs.” That very much sums up the pressure I felt I was under and without that love and support you really feel like you’re alone in the wilderness.
I too believe deeply in the power of the human spirit and now there is so much research being done in neuroscience to back it up. My favourite books on the subject are The Brain’s Way of Healing by Norman Doidge and The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. Neither of these books address NPD and I’m almost certain that it can’t be changed but still there remains a twinkle of hope for the sake of alleviating the suffering of others. Maybe one day we’ll get there.
Twisted Heart
I am not sure where to even start, I don’t like to think about John, It brings the everprensence to the fore and I feel him as if he is here besides me even thou he is miles away. He also seems to contact me more when I spend time thinking and/or speaking about him.
We spent an incredible amount of time together, and he only slightly tested my responses to any negative talk about his ex. Apparently he caught my expression the first time he told me his wife called him evil. I said I didn’t believe he was evil, yet I looked deeper into him and saw behind the mask and I believe he saw my expression when I acknowledge this. He tested me on how jealous I can get by telling me he had to leave due to he was having dinner with a female friend, I did feel some jealousy yet it wasn’t mine I just owned it and he thought he made me jealous. Now in this moment I was triggered by a different emotion which cause me to “own” the jealousy I felt from another.
He was extremely subtle in how what I call testing me. I really wasn’t ready to be in another relationship due to I had just moved back after dealing with an extremely emotional break up (to an UMR) and still recovering from my surgery from the car accident I had been in.
I used to wear a band around my wrist and at times I would start to snap it on my wrist when him and I were together. He asked me once if I was anxious being with him, I just responded with I am experiencing many shifts at the moment.
Many strange behaviors of mine caught his attention, I was a challenge for him to break….
I can not give anyone fake anything and no one has ever be able to unlock that which I hold back. The intensity would be to much for them to handle.
I remember when he tried to scare me, we were on his motorcycle I just instinctively moved with him, the speed, the turns, the take offs…..my heart is pounding just thinking about it…..when we stopped he said he was sorry he scared me I turned and said no he didn’t I loved it, and went on about how much I enjoyed it and thinking I wanted him to go faster and he did it was like he was reading my mind, I was so excited and just kept on about how marvelous he was and such. I get excited and the energy that pours forth is contagious. I have to control this to keep from being noticed.
At the time I didn’t realize he was seeing what I keep hidden.
He got me to talk by taking me to the woods or staying out under the stars…….I remember one sunset and he began to speak of his perspective to me. He began with explaining his fuel matrix, no he didn’t call it a fuel matrix yet levels people are connected to him. As he opened up to me I opened up to him. Slowly we were becoming entwined. I found him fascinating and intriguing and told him in many different ways.
We would speak of how we seen people, he explained how people were connected to him. He used his phone in demonstration how “invisible” lines were all connected from different directions to it just as people were to him. I explained to him how I could “see” the energy that connects everything, how it affected me and how I could follow it. He didn’t believe until I proved it to him one day when I found him when he disappeared.
We spoke of how facial expressions, body positions and tone of voice effect people and how to practiced “happy joyous” expressions, he showed me how he could appear to be distraught and depressed. The visual cue were triggering he was amused. I told him he should have been an actor due to how perfectly he performed. I explained to him how even thou I was emotionally affected he didn’t feel the part. This caught his attention and he wanted to know how he felt to me. That was when I told him I saw two of him…..a shadow and then him. I also told him I felt different around him. I told him I saw much more then that.
He began to test me. He would take me places and then want to know what I felt and “seen” , I would tell him….
He was careful in how he questioned me on how people felt to me, He was also careful in how he spoke about others to me, especially his ex wife. When he did it would be when it was understandable for feeling angry. I went to court with him once, it was there I met his ex wife….we actually ran into each other in the ladies room. I was hit with a flood of emotions, not expecting this it was like being thrown into a vat of ice water naked. It was all reaction and the first time he witnessed uncontrolled emotions absorbed “owned” and expressed from me in a manner that is slightly embarrassing, it was all directed towards him, it was after this I noticed not only did I feel better to have been able to express this emotion in the way I did yet he felt different if I was to use a word then to describe how he felt it would be “happy and joyous” I know now it was powerful.
I was introduced to his mother and children fairly quickly. I spent a lot of time with them, I would go to his mothers home and just visit. She confirmed many things I had picked up about John instinctively about his childhood.
One of my abilities is when I am flooded with these emotions I close my eyes and pick up images of them at different times in their lives. Hell just coming in contact with a person I can get these “images” looking at them.
I stopped thinking about keeping emotions at bay and let myself absorb and “own” them and instinctively let myself flow with John and his needs. I am not sure if he actually knew or just instinctively knew which button to push to cause a reaction from me, bottom line is I let him manipulate my emotions, there was a consequence for this and one I now know only a greater can accomplish they infect on a deeper level then any other school. I am not immune from one being able to push these buttons with out me being aware…..I keep those paths well hidden
John was never able to unlock that which I hold back of positive emotions, negative emotion it wasn’t the full intensity, damn close thou
I believe the only reason why he couldn’t get the full intensity of positive emotions is due to he could never overwhelm my senses and trigger me.
I do see where I was being devalued or the beginning of it close to when I left. He would make comments about other women and I would provide little reaction due to controlling my hurt, it didn’t matter it felt fake he was triggering my emotional thinking and that hurt. There were many things he started to do that confused me, I started to see the two sides more often and the shifts were becoming hard to keep up and flow with it. When the dam of emotions began to leak he kept the pressure up, sometimes I think I connected things quicker then he expected due to he never knew the full story of what I had been through with my husband and finding out I was pregnant is actually the key to me staying away. I believe things would have gone in longer if that detail hadn’t happen. I also remember the night I felt a shift in me, it was the night I was done. That was a week before I found out and actually put together what he had been telling me.
In the end I felt fear due to my association of him being NPD to what I only thought it was. My husband was an ULN and his family full of them, that is something I have been thinking about speaking of. The things they did, I feel dirty just thinking about them. Something I have never felt when thinking about John. He didn’t give me the space I needed to process things and took me looking into just how deep he was in my stuff as a loss of control. I stayed away due to finding out I was pregnant I couldn’t take a chance of repeating things again. I remember durning that time just before I went silent I was pushing his buttons as much as he was pushing mine. Then they started to appear…..the stress was to much and I lost the baby then I became the hunter. I was terrified he had changed me because I wanted him to feel the pain I did and I forced it on him. I felt what he went through and I was responsible for it.
He contacts me every so often. I have yet to reply and will be moving yet again soon due to he knows where I live.
There is still a part of me that wished to see him….there is an unresolved issue between him and I. He is mistaken in thinking she is his, yet she is my granddaughter and looks very similar to me. She is the same age she would have been.
I am going to apologize if I jumped around a bit, I wrote this over the past couple of days. I am also writing it from my perspective and awareness now which makes things clear in regards with how things happened.
I am definitely not immune of them, i understand just how deep one can infect me.
I also know even if I sense it my emotional thinking has the ability to override my logic.
TMH, thank you for the book recommendations! That is a path I have not explored much but it is fascinating (the correlations between the spiritual and biology, I love it).
Loneliness had been probably the worst consequence of narcissism for myself, in all cases.
Oh, and TH and I am remembering recent efforts to prove via physics that it is possible for two people to perceive two different things and both of them be correct. I believe they are making progress and my own beliefs from a spiritual standpoint are that it is true.
Not to be applied to maintaining unhealthy relationships, just I think it is a relevant concept to me and actually when considered helps me in some way.
Thank you HG!!
HG, is there a single trait that separates the empath, SE and codependent? From what I understand it is the SE need to stay true to themselves by rising above deceit and falsehood when they detect it by not pandering to anothers need for fuel.
What is your experience with people compared to the rest of our kind who feel second and think first. Snap! 😉
Perhaps it is the action they take given that they would use logic over emotions if the need arises.
There is not one single trait that separates, no.
There is not one single trait, is it because it’s more about the concentration of the traits than the type of traits?
Correct.
You are brilliant!
Thank you Claire, you’re too sweet. 😘💕
Greetings HG
Quick question….
Ricky Gervais- super empath?
Afterlife, like most of his works, is brilliant. Brilliant cast too. In my humble opinion of course.
The Tony-Anne conversations/scenes are truly profound.
Quick answer – it’s a no.
Thanks for replying
You are welcome TT.
Sweetheart, have you considered that there might exist something like a greater empath?
I have and there is not.
You are funny. Thank you.
I would think that the super empath is like the “greater empath” but on the empathic spectrum. So, the “lesser empath” (codependent), “midrange empath” (standard empath), and “greater empath” (super empath) lol Or in a different perspective: the codependent is the match for the lesser narcissist, the standard empath is the match for midrange narcissist, and the super empath is the match for the greater narcissist.
What do you think, HG?
You are incorrect.
Yeah, I know. I was joking…. bad joke I guess lol. Thank you for your reply, HG.
You are welcome.
I love this piece. That being said it is a tad misleading. Reading this you would never think an SE would have insecurities, question themselves, wonder what truly separates them from all the classes of empath. Reading this we seem like saints don’t we? For the record I did in fact attempt to take in a homeless person which my husband vehemently vetoed.
So what separates us?
I’ve given this a lot of thought. I’ve watched, read and questioned. Super Empaths are a fierce lot that pay attention to what is said and done. We have a very low tolerance for bullshit but are are willing to listen and be reasonable. We do not easily dismiss our basic gut instincts and in most cases will not leave ourselves twisting in the wind unless the situation warrants it. We are incredibly resilient, emotionally intelligent, and very resourceful.
Which makes us very dangerous to anyone who is toxic.
Reading this one again for the third time and still feel this is where I line up on the empath scale (along with DE, infidelity). I feel everything. I am a generous giver, honest, fixer, great listener and rememberer, empathic and compassionate…but only once I’ve decided it’s been earned. The moment I sense I’m being taken advantage of, or pulled back from, I will pull back too. This all furthers my belief that my narc must have decided I was too difficult to manipulate, challenged him with attempts at holding him accountable for his actions, and didn’t (externally) break down or chase him after he began to withdraw.
At some point I will probably do the empath detector to confirm 🤔
Joanne You really should do it. It really opened my eyes!
Dearest HG. I am sort of upset that I am going through living emotional hell over a mid-ranger that I am disengaging from, without ever having much of a reward/incentive in the beginning of the idealization phase, with this person, even though I am/was a NIPSS. Why couldn`t it all have been over a Greater Narc. At least I could have had that Wonderful Golden Period, with a super intelligent man, instead of a Bronze or Tin Period, such as I had. As the Greater`s NIPSS, or even perhaps an IPSS, I see some Pluses: 1. I would not usually have to undergo any long devaluation. 2. Nor, too often discarded. 3. I would have received the best side of the Greater Narcissist most of the time. 4. And I do not go in for most of what people call holidays, so if he had to be with his IPPS, for those celebrations and milestones, it would not bother me in the least! 5. And as long as I did not have to sit on the fuel shelf cabinet for too long for my own needs, and he still called me and took my calls, and I saw him a sufficient amount of time, I would be quite pleased. 6. I am busy, anyway. 7. And I like a certain amount of down time to recuperate from all people to preserve my personality and humanity. Hmmmm….I know I probably am neglecting to think about some things. Magical Thinking is probably hiding in my thoughts about all this. Still, I feel robbed.
I am definitely a super empath it’s not that easy to get me to give in and give away my power I don’t blindly trust people but if someone does manage to get into my heart I never stop loving them I always stand up for myself and I am fiercely independent I hate when the games start and ignore a great deal before I explode because if I can heal the relationship and I give all of myself to doing that I will but eventually something snaps and my dark side comes out I don’t like going there the guilt stays with me for ages even if everyone is saying it is justified I cannot , the way you treat people says more about you than the way you are treated lucky for me when I go to the dark side I am usually getting malignant hoovering the benign ones are my weakness
Interesting. I never knew I was a super empath, but haven’t heard that terminology used for it, either. Why is it that I am attracted to upper mid rangers and greaters but we never hit it off. They usually fail to answer a question to my satisfaction, they overlook me and see me as indifferent or I sense a big ego and flirty persona which gets me moving in another direction…??
1. Do you feel love for ShieldMaiden right now? You also have empathy towards her. Maybe it’s because you feel she’s yours and an extension of you, but maybe are you able to manufacture and actually kind of feel those emotions during the golden period?
2. You said this time you aren’t mirroring, is it more relaxing just being you, or is it harder since you’re stopping yourself from doing what comes naturally?
3. Does this relationship with her feel different from your previous ones?
1. I am incapable of love. I have no emotional empathy.
2. It requires a greater effort to arrest the natural response.
3. Yes. Far, far better.
Thank you for your honest and thoughtful reply. If you are incapable of love, what do you feel for the ShieldMaiden?
Pride, protective, admiration.
HG, my opinion
Pride, protection, admiration = love
Or is it
Pride, that she is mine
Protection, of what is mine
Admiration, approval of quality
Don’t you mean possessive not protective?
@mercy
Hg can correct me if I’m wrong but I think what he is saying is that he is currently infactuated with his girlfriend but he knows eventually she will be devalued and abused (they always are) and therefore he can not love her, because that would require consistency and respect. The infactuation will wear off and eventually he will want to hurt her.
For example, what stops an empathetic person from
Cheating?. Is it because we couldn’t shag several different attractive people? Unlikely, we could for our own pleasure. However, what stops us is not wanting to hurt the other person and make that person feel like they are not good enough. We respect them and want them to feel secure just as we would want. That is love. A narcissist can not love because they enjoy hurting their partner.
Only because hg helps people online for his own benefit which he has stated over and over again, doesn’t mean he has seen the light and now loves people. He doesn’t.
No, I am not stating that.
HG Tudor
MARCH 11, 2019 AT 15:49
Pride, protective, admiration.
That’s interesting HG.
Is protection a normal feeling for someone in the golden period as well as someone you’d like to make an IP (not yet instated) of any description, be that IPSS or IPPS?
Yes, it is called protecting an asset.
Interesting and helpful. Thank you HG. I will be certain to use this to my advantage! X
Better as in fuel providing HG?
Can narcs ever think about their BEST or most special fuel provider and reminisce on particularly great moments, enhancing your need to masturbate?
This is fascinating. So what happens when you stop mirroring? Are you expressionless, indifferent, more present, vulnerable? What effect does this have on keeping the creature at bay? My theory is that when there is no need to suppress an emotional response then the rage or fury will eventually fizzle out because it doesn’t need to work so hard to maintain control. Thoughts?
Pride, protection, and admiration…Any woman would love to receive that kind of adoration. Add in gratitude and it sounds pretty close like love to me HG.
“3. Yes. Far, far better.“
That is until the novelty wears off. Or perhaps when she brings up the inconsistencies in your story. Or perhaps when she needs more from you than what you can/want to provide. When you see that she is human and flawed. Perhaps you will get bored and decide you need to provoke an argument so you can go elsewhere for your fuel. Then she will suffer needlessly. But you won’t let her go until she is begging for mercy. That will be the point you jump the sinking ship, leaving her behind tied to the mast.
On a random note, what are your thoughts on Jeremy Corbyn? I think he is one of your kind.
He is.
Fuck! Is he really? Wow.
Interesting!