Surely That’s The End,Yes? (Will There Be A Hoover?)
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
66 thoughts on “Surely That’s The End,Yes? (Will There Be A Hoover?)”
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Is the likelihood of a hoover less if the entire relationship was via email and phone calls, a continent apart and I ended it?
No.
I think I got a hoover by proxy; or maybe not and I’m just becoming paranoid. A mutual friend who is also very close to the woman I thought was the other IPSS with whom I was being triangulated emailed me a couple of days ago, saying she missed me and asking why I had deactivated Facebook and that “your fans have been speculating and wondering where you were.” I just replied I missed you too, sorry I’ve been busy. How’s your life? I ignored the part of my “preoccupied fans.”
Sweetest—that was a good reply. I don’t even use Facebook for much, it’s highly plausible to just grow away from it. I use it for a few groups for travel, a former dog training group of friends, messenger, milestones. I rarely browse.
Dear HG: the ex mid-range N (confirmed by you in a consult) has made four (so far) bank tranfers of negligible amounts to my account with various transfer titles after I informed him late last year that I will report him if he fails to return a penalty fee for a cable contract that he signed in my name without my knowledge. He paid the penalty fee. Are these new bank transfers hoovers?? I assume so. I have been NC for just over a year and have not responded to anything. Should I return these amounts to his bank account? Would appreciate your input.
Dear HG, are comments getting through? Not being impatient, just curious whether my comment from 7 Feb has made it to ‘moderation’ stage.
They are. There are numerous comments in moderation.
Addressed elsewhere, Jess.
Well, there’s really no end of this Hoovering thing.
My female narc I was involved with at my high school times, we stayed together for 3 years, she wanted children from me, she’s parents accepted me and treated well.
Suddenly before xmas she broke up with me, without real couse.
I was struggled, blaming myself, and started to do some self destructive behaviours like partying etc…
I was alone and do not want any relationship for 8 years.
After that I found a girl, and we’re together since 10 years.
Suddenly after my new girlfriend my narc appeared at facebook and started to hoover me, I said no.
She finally found a nice guy at UK and engaged with him, and moved to Columbia to marry him.
She write me a message that we would go out and attend on her wedding with my GF, I was like WTF? 😀
Then few years of silence, she had a children from his husband, then broke up with him and moved back to UK, then moved back to Hungary.
Suddenly a facebook message came, asking that i’m happy or what in my relationship.
I told her yes, and everything is fine with me, after this she started to smear my GF that coused me raging and blocking her.
This last xmas she appeared again and started to write me like I was the right one and searched for me in every man she got and bla bla.
I guess she will never stop this nonsense, but since I know she is a playing a victim narc I go back to no contact.
Wonder when she will find me again.
PS.: Sorry, english is not my native language 🙂
Welcome Avi, no she will not stop but there is a lot you can do to reduce the chances of it happening and impacting on you.
Hello HG
I’ got a question here. I went no contact and wrote him that i sea no reason anymore to stay in contact with someone who is bad for me.
So he answered: if you mean so i wont bother you anymore. I blocked him everywhere and changed mobile number.
I have a few item here at my home and i I think to send it back to him by DHL so that he is not suddenly appearing on my doorstep. It was a long-distance relationship and he is lazy and poor according to self-report so I do not think he suddenly appears here. to send back his things? Yes No?
Yes, return his items.
HG, I’ve just thought of something else I need to ask.No signs of any hoovers for 6 months – but a strange photo from a long-time IPPS of the narc. I imagined I was blocked on all fronts by this IPPS and was caught off guard. And badly triggered. Was this random or accidental? I do not want to imagine issues where there are none.
Difficult to provide an answer, it might be a hoover, but I would need more information.
https://narcsite.com/private-e-mail-consultation/
True and another confirmation from my experience. NC – final for me – since last July. He is blocked on all private channels except for business because my contact data has to be public by default. I put his e-mail on blacklist but he can easily use another address or just call me. Unfortunately, neither he nor his IPPS/IPSS have refrained from using my business contact in the past so I am not completely protected from receiving another hoover. I know he is hoovering again, despite making a grand exit by telling me he would never contact me again after we had another argument and I told him I was done. I just know his pattern and could sense in the past when he was preparing to hoover again – my intuition has never failed me in that regard and there have been subtle signs within the last few days. It’s been on and off for over ten years with NC ranging from a few weeks up to years. And yes, he always came back – irrespective of the length of the NC/silent treatment period or our heated arguments that lead to NC.
Saskia this is v helpful
Can I ask what the longest silent treatment or NC has been in time please
Hello Amber,
The longest silent treatment I remember lasted about 5-6 months, following a mere reply I gave in response to a text bombardment I received from him. Our entanglement was characterised by many disruptions caused by periods of said silent treatments and also, two periods of NC (up to one year) initiated by me where I had enough and escaped (that included going full NC by changing my contact details, only to be sucked back in when he hoovered me again).
May I ask in which way you found my comment helpful (if you care to share, of course)? Are you currently disengaged from or NC with someone?
Saskia,
I found it helpful because of the time frame involved. My understanding is that it lasted about ten years, which is very similar to my situation ( I was an IPSS and he was stringing me along …)
In 2016 I discovered he had plans to move in with his IPPS, he had told me he was leaving her , I told him to naff off and heard no more from him ( I initiated contact six months later and he told me he wanted nothing more to do with him). Six months after this, I made contact again and we started to develop a ‘friendship’ (addiction is hard to break.
However in 2017 , he once again told me never to contact him. I have heard nothing from him since and I understand he will be getting married soon.
I guess I’m wondering if this is the end…
Amber,
Thank you for your reply. When reading your comment, I just wondered how you currently feel about your situation/being disengaged from since 2017 and about receiving a potential hoover? Would you like to share?
You are correct – our entanglement lasted about a decade. Like you, I was the (S)IPSS/DLS.
After a very abrupt break-up (there was a rather short relationship attempt in the very beginning), I became the persona non grata. He smeared me to mutual friends and acquaintances, blocked me on every channel and gave me the present silent treatment whenever we happened to cross paths on campus. I had a very tough time digesting the events, coming to terms with the fact that, in the blink of an eye, I was thrown from the pedestal he had built in our mini GP and getting on with my life.
Irrespective of that grand exit, he hoovered again four years later. Besides, there were several Proxy hoovers during this disengagement period. I was harbouring unresolved feelings over our sudden break-up and that made me susceptible to further advances/hoovers, the main reason why I allowed a part II where I became the (shelved) IPSS/DLS since he was in the process of getting married to his veiled IPPS. Obviously, his marriage did not prevent hoovering me and other potential IPSS/DLS from afar. So, yes, if his need for fuel requires it, he will chase the ‚lower ranks‘ in his fuel matrix irrespective of time frames involved or whatever he might have told you prior to disengagement.
It is essential to strictly GOSO – Get out and Stay out. It will help you lower your ET and see the situation for what it is. Hoping for another hoover equates remaining open to ABUSE and having to experience the pain that comes with being used again and again. Just know I can relate to the struggle that comes with the various ‘milestones’ in this entanglement and with being ‘strung along’ (although I hesitate to use that term in my situation because of many other factors involved).
If you have the time, (re-)read articles that focus on the various types of hoovers and hoover triggers – for instance, “Where’s my Hoover” in combination with Get out, Stay out – it might be particularly helpful to you.
Mine seems to hoover at the 5-8 month mark after my going no contact. I fell for his hoovers a few times before I understood what I was dealing with so I’ve seen this form as a pattern with him.
HG, do some narcs have a set pattern on when they hoover such as a specific number of months since no contact? And could this in itself be a Hoover Trigger?
No, it is as a consequence of the HT and the HEC being met. It is that which forms the pattern, there is not a pattern which results in the HT.
Thanks HG, pieces are coming together thanks to you!
HG. I discarded my NEX during his Grand hoover attempt in January, This resulted in him getting arrested for assault and a no contact order put in place for a month which he naturally disregarded via text..I have maintained NC ever since and blocked him and his enablers on social media etc and have ignored him and his ‘new’ PS when we’ve bumped in to each other. My question is this. Have I damaged his ego badly enough by tarnishing his reputation that he will leave me alone now as he has made no attempt to hoover in 3 months despite me being in his social sphere on occasion.We live in the same small town so it’s pretty impossible to avoid each other for long.
You escaped prior to the Initial Grand Hoover, you do not escape during it. It is your escape which prompts it.
He has not hoovered because either there has been no Hoover Trigger or if there has, the Hoover Execution Criteria have not been met. This will have been influenced by his wounding (although this is now fading in effect as it does not last for ever) and more likely because he is pursuing other interests and therefore has in effect deleted you. There is a risk of return as the HEC alter over time increasing/decreasing the risk of a hoover.
I had already left before this happened and went no contact for a week until he lured me back to sort out some forms therefore this would be a failed Grand Hoover wouldn’t it?
Hi HG, is the initial grand Hoover a quick, once off interaction that can suck you back in, or can it take the form of a process? Is the IGH compete the moment you respond?
Please see the book No Contact, it is explained there.
I agree wholeheartedly that Hoover attempts are a given, if an N knows where to contact you as a former IPPS. I don’t think I ever questioned this. However, I am pleased it is such a long time since I have given it any thought.
Yes, Ns may claim ownership of us, yes they believe death do us part, but their action or inaction is not of any significance once we pull ourselves out of their sphere of control.
Reading this article today has been a joy, because it makes me realise that Hoovers just don’t interest me anymore. Hoover who?!
A mid-range Victim Narc has been contacting me for a year with zero response. I don’t think he’ll ever stop.
I guess zero response is better than a restraining order, because a restraining order is an interaction, and that would give him fuel.
Whitney, in my experience mid range victim types seem to be the most persistent.
HG is this BecuSe they are blinded by their narcissism more than others or do they thrive on the pain of rejection?
The blinding is total for Lesser and Mid-Range. The persistence arises owing to a higher energy level and greater means of communication. They are also driven by their greater victim mentality “I have done nothing wrong, why are you not speaking to me? Cannot we sort it out? Please talk to me.”
The Lessers attitude is “Fuck ’em, now who’s next?”
The Greater’s attitude is “Plenty of other options to toy with in the meantime, she will come round shortly, they always do.”
Omg Hahahha wow! That explains so much. Yup that is exactly how the two greaters I’ve encountered have behaved.
I’m pretty sure the very first N I engaged with (well the one who prompted me to seek answers in the first place) was not a greater after all. I had assumed he was although he is the most victim of victims lol and I found him so repulsive! As with all other mids. I told him explicitly to fuck off and never contact me again during his attempt to seduce me but he would not take no for an answer and used every Pity ploy he could.
But his awareness of what he was made me think he must have been a greater. Until HG, you recently introduced the idea that some mids beleive they are greaters.
Because the true greaters I have encountered have behaved totally differently and well exactly as you describe and Whikst their charisma is intense I find them Incredibly chilling all at the same time. More chilling than any other kind of N.
Wow! Just wow! Thank you
You are welcome.
I really enjoyed reading that HG 😆 I always especially like your depiction of lessers
Thank you.
“The blinding is total for Lesser and Mid-Range. The persistence arises owing to a higher energy level and greater means of communication. They are also driven by their greater victim mentality “I have done nothing wrong, why are you not speaking to me? Cannot we sort it out? Please talk to me.””
This actually sounds like me responding to a silent treatment from MMRN or even what I might say when I was shelved and trying to reverse it (didn’t know it was shelving then).
MMRN responded by telling me I was expressing entitlement and I felt shamed.
I have so many of the same behavior patterns as a narc, it makes me wonder.
Correct again HG. 4 years two months No Contact & “it ” tried to hoover me on Monday…. They really never stop, do they ..
No, there is always a risk and thank you for another confirmation in that regard as this always assists in ensuring readers understand this fundamental point.
I’m almost certain. well as certain as I can be that I’ve managed to stay out of the first Five Spheres, which means I entered sphere Six, the only one I don’t have any control over ..
Naturally the attempt has been ignored & the source blocked.
I don’t comment much now, but your advice & wise words keep me safe & of course, Narc Free.:)
Thank you as Ever HG .
NSS. 🙂
Not So Sad
I thought about you recently and am glad you popped in. I was here when your name changed and I was wondering how you were. Glad to read that your defences are still in place and that you are safe. Take care.
NA
Well Hellloooo Stanger, so nice to hear from you .
How are you ????? 🙂 !
Thank you for thinking of me NA , I honestly thought I’d be long forgotten by now, it’s so long since I last posted ..
Yes my defences are still high ty, expecially as I was triangulated with it’s new supply for over three years .
Basicly it only stopped late last year when she finally realised what she was dealing with & cut off his supply, so I’ve been kinda expecting something without concerning myself too much.
I’m suprised the dumb ass lasted so long before Mondays Hoover .. He’s so predicatble .. Hahaha..
xx
Not So Sad
Never forgot you or your story and contributions. I often think of many who have gone on or comment less frequently. I always chose to believe they are well, safe, and happier than when they first arrived here, but it is always nice to have that confirmed. You will never be forgotten.
NA
x
NA, you will never be forgotten as well. Your support has helped me through some dark times.
Pale Horse
Thank you. That is very kind of you and means a lot. When I think of you, I think of someone who aided my learning by bravely sharing the effects from the male point of view, supported others, and who will now be sharing empathy and understanding in a new career. I know you will enjoy success in both your personal and professional matters and I like that picture.
NA
Hello Not So Sad
Glad to see you and hear you are keeping a firm no contact.
Three years next month, and she’s been trying to hoover by spreading the news that she’s going to break up with her boyfriend because she wants to know what’s going on with my husband. No contact aside from her showing up where we are.
It really never stops.
NSS, “it”. Love that it wasn’t a “my”.
I find myself becoming ever more complacent that Narc Friend has disappeared for good. Seven months. Two mutual friends I shared with him sent me messages on social media lately as we are planning an activity together (definitely not a proxy hoover), but neither of them mentioned him or any connection to him. If he’s bothered with any of our whereabouts he could theoretically hoover all three of us together, but that seems like a lot of trouble to go to. In the whole scheme of things I think I was a pretty minor player in his life and he has bigger fish to fry. On the other hand, he hasn’t blocked me though I wounded him, and he could just be saving me for later like a box of Chinese takeout in the fridge . . .
Today he attempted to take me off the shelf for actual in-person playtime (versus his idiotic sexting/flirtatious breadcrumbing). It was a gradual buildup that started on the weekend with some provocative messages. But finally today he came with “I’ve been thinking about you a lot lately and we should get together. I miss you. I miss your kiss.” 🙄🙄🙄 God knows how I would’ve handled this a month ago but today I felt so strong! My LT was leading the charge and all I could think of was SATN and fuel and triangulation and it was as if every word he said somehow linked back to everything I’ve learned. I picture him in his bolthole switching from app to app, from me to her, to her, and her, blah blah blah etc. My ET still showed up. When I told him I wouldn’t see him now, I also could not resist the opening to once again hold him accountable for what happened between us. I was nice about it, so he tolerated it for a short time, but he still attempted to rewrite history, etc until he finally got bored and exited the conversation.
Joanne, how do you feel after that direct hoover? I didn’t know you two still flirted or sexted (no judgements).
SP
We are still connected on social media so occasionally he will view my posts and send me a 😍❤️ or something 🙄. Sexting is an exaggeration I guess. It’s more “suggestive” than sext. He’ll flirt and I’ll respond to that. Also 🙄. I felt really good after the Hoover. The whole time I was thinking to myself “does he really think I’m going to see him again without any explanation of what happened?!?!” The nerve?? I kind of made a joke of why he was suddenly thinking about me considering he basically forgot about me after our last date. My ET was trying to get him to explain but he just did the typical blameshifting and rewriting of history 🙄 I admit, I don’t know what I would have done if he actually took accountability, even fake apologized or anything like that. I might’ve been tempted to give in. I guess he didn’t feel like having to squeeze fuel from me so he moved on.
Joanne, thanks for your explanation. I wanted to tell you that I, too, feel good when the hoovers happen regardless of how ridiculous I know feeling good is. It’s like the little fish that feels excited that the shark has paid attention to it, even knowing that it’s not for a good reason. I wonder what will happen next after you said that to him. Mine is very similar, if I questioned him about anything he would withdraw.
Oh, Joanne, I’m flying today for another professional event and what a difference it makes to go narc-less. He won’t be in this one, instead I’m meeting a colleague that cannot be more empathic and lovable. It’s good to realize he just brings anxiety and misery to my life and how stress-free I am without him. It’s taking me time, but I’m getting there.
SP
Have a safe flight and peaceful narc-free event! It is indeed a calming feeling when you can pinpoint exactly the areas of your life that are stressing and anxiety provoking as a result of their involvement… and to know that their absence will be a huge relief!
Thank you, Joanne! We had a bumpy ride but we made it. Gosh I hate turbulence…
SP
I know the hoover shouldn’t be viewed as a compliment but it’s hard not to feel good. It did feel even better to resist it, to not even feel a pang of longing. At the same time, my ET wants him to keep wanting me. BUT, LT knows all he’s after is my fuel. Has nothing to do with me. Hard to separate those two but at least it’s moving along in the right direction!
Joanne!!!!!
This is wonderful news!!! I’m so proud of you for staying strong! That must have felt so good! “Go and brush that shoulder off.” A little Jayz for ya😎
Thank you, TH! 💁🏼♀️😎
Yes, I felt really pleased with myself for being strong and resisting his stupid overture. It’s really getting to a point now where I can see how fake it all is/was and my LT just wont allow me to give in. At the same time, while I wasn’t aware this was all a game to him at the start, it’s a game to ME now and one I’m not going to lose. Or, really even actively play.
you always talk about narcissists as a man, are there differences with narcissistic women? which are ?
I do not do so always, but use he purely to avoid keep saying “he or she” as this takes longer to type etc. There are some differences, but largely the behaviours are similar hence you can apply anything referred to the ‘he-narcissist’ as applicable to the ‘she-narcissist’.
women are easier to destroy, they have the laws on their side, the custody of their children, the role of a self-sacrificing mother who confronts her followers, who plays in her favor, the mask of the hidden one, more and better than there is a The man, a woman who is reliable, can also be promiscuous more easily if he proposes. On the other hand, they have the disadvantage that the fear of the victim to a physical attack is more difficult. Sorry for my English use translator