No Contact Suicide – Part One
No Contact can be difficult to implement. Even harder to maintain.
We are looking to batter down your no contact wall and breach your defences so that we can exert control over you once again. It may be because we want draw fuel from you, positive or negative or we may wish to draw fuel and pull you back into the Formal Relationship once again and attach you to us so plenty of delicious fuel is provided to us. Dependent on our fuel needs, the constitution of our fuel matrix and the school of narcissist that we are, we may dedicate considerable time and effort to knocking down your no contact.
Having worked hard to escape us or, if disengaged, build that wall before the Follow-Up Hoovers start when we turn our attention to you once again, there are many occasions where you commit no contact suicide and bring your own wall tumbling down with next to no help from us.
There are two main elements to this no contact suicide. I explained in The Wrong No Contact that you may think you have established no contact, but you actually have not. With no contact suicide, you may well have actually implemented a robust and solid no contact regime and then, as the song goes, you go and spoil it all by doing something stupid.
Keep in mind that we anticipate the commission of no contact suicide and therefore in certain instances our own behaviour will be adjusted to encourage you to bring about the demise of your no contact yourself.
The first part of no contact suicide concerns you ending no contact by simply contacting us. This is either by messaging us, telephoning us or even making an appearance in person.
This may seem an obvious thing not to do, but it repeatedly happens. Ordinarily, if you have escaped us you will receive an Initial Grand Hoover as we fight to bring you back into the Formal Relationship. This happens most of the time – however if it does not or if it has happened and the IGH failed, we may well be relying on you committing no contact suicide through you contacting us. Alternatively, when we want to hoover you weeks or months after your escape or disengagement and you have put in place no contact we recognise there are ways of causing you to commit no contact suicide. Accordingly, you need to be aware of the ways by which we will look to cultivate an environment conducive to this occurring and also the ways in which you are susceptible to committing no contact suicide.
You also need to keep at the forefront of your mind that we are relying on bringing about no contact suicide so that you contact us and once that happens we want your emotional thinking to surge (through repeated involvement with us following the commission of your no contact suicide) so that you reject logic and fall prey to just your emotional thinking once again. Then it is all aboard the emotional thinking train on an express route to Narc Town again.
- The Need For Closure
Victims have a huge need for closure. Understand this – we will never give it you. However, we know that you want it and therefore you have this need to interact with us for the purpose of understanding what has happened and achieving closure. You preferably want to speak with us, either on the telephone or in person. You are a truth seeker and the desire to find out why we did as we did, why we treated you in this fashion (and especially if you have not realised what you have been dealing with) means the chances of you contacting us to secure closure are high. We will also bait you in this regard, offering to speak with you so closure can be obtained. We will not grant it you and instead we will give you half-answers, riddles and provoke you so that you keep engaging with us. The repeated engagement will feed the emotional infection, cause your emotional thinking to rise and then we have you ensnared again.
Do not seek closure from us. Make your own closure by utilising my works so you understand what has happened. Ask your questions of me, not of the narcissist you were entangled with.
2. The Desire For Revenge
You have been abused, messed around and humiliated. It is time to kick some narcissist ass and get revenge isn’t it? Why not? After all you have escaped, you understand more about who you are dealing with and therefore suitably empowered you tell yourself that driven by this anger, this hatred you will now make our lives hell.
By all means bring it on.
This is an understandable response, but it will cause you to commit no contact suicide. If you are seeking revenge in the immediate aftermath of disengagement or escape (and by that I mean anything up to 4-6 months afterwards) you will not be applying logic. Your emotional thinking is raging and surging and all you will do is mess up the revenge and become ensnared by us in some form again. You may find yourself back in the Formal Relationship or more likely engaged in trying to land blows against us as we revel in doling out malign hoovers against you, smearing you and pointing to your behaviour as exactly the reason why we got rid of you in the first place.
The desire for revenge is often high. Resist it. If you wish to seek revenge 4-6 months later, when your emotional thinking is firmly under control and you are applying logic, then do so and you will be far more likely to succeed. Yet, if you seek it at an early stage you will commit no contact suicide and with no good outcome for you.
3Returning property/collecting property
We look to leave items of property with you and/or keep items of your property with us so that there is a hook by which we can contact you with the pretence of sorting out this outstanding issue. It is just a way of creating Ever Presence and then having a basis by which we can seek to hoover you.
If you have our property, remove it as part of your purging exercise. Arrange for it to be delivered back to us by courier or a third party. You do not need to contact us to ask do we want it back, you do not need to contact us to make arrangements to bring about a hand over and resist your emotional thinking which will be trying to persuade you to meet up with us like some romantic reunion at Checkpoint Charlie as you hand back a box of possessions and we use the interaction as a prime opportunity to draw fuel from you as you have just committed no contact suicide. We may not even take the goods off you, leaving them with you so we can use the excuse on further occasions.
If you have property with us write it off or make arrangements for a third party to effect recovery and if it is of significance you may have to go to law (either civil or involve the police) in order to cause us to relinquish our hold on the items. Again, our hold is not based on the items themselves (they could be your Barbie doll collection or a sports car) but rather that the item or items provide a basis for activating a hoover by way of Hoover Trigger and/or because we recognise it will cause you to commit no contact suicide.
Recognise how property will be used against you.
4. Your Replacement/ New Interest
In certain instances we shall parade your replacement (if you were the IPPS) or a new interest (if you are a Shelf IPSS or DLS) in order to cause you to break your no contact. Many times the narcissist, when with a new IPPS, does not want to hear from you as you have been effectively deleted but this parading may still occur because
a. We gain Thought Fuel from imagining your anger or upset at knowing we are with someone else so soon after your disengagement or escape;
b. We want you to break no contact to try to challenge us in some way. This provides us with fuel and enables us to either engage in facade management by being pleasant with you (sometimes the response of upper echelon narcissists) or allows us to engage in a malicious response to punish you and draw negative fuel.
c. We also want you to break no contact to try to challenge us so it supports the basis of our smearing of you. We gain fuel but we can also show everybody what a wild-eyed harpy you are and how fortunate we were to escape your clutches and find someone who understands us and treats us well.
This parading of the new interest may be done through announcements on social media, appearances at social events and even walking by arm in arm where you live. it is designed to cause you to commit no contact suicide by
a. Having a go at us for dumping you and finding someone else so quickly;
b. To invite your commentary when it is a situation of Have You Seen Who He Is With
c. To try to warn the new interest what they have got themselves into (which invariably fails and backfires)
d. Finding out more about this person
e. To see if we are truly happy with this person – a common fear of the former appliance
Your emotional thinking will con you by suggesting that you should confront us because we have treated you terribly and we should be made aware of this, that you have an obligation as a decent person to warn this fresh victim about us, to sneer at our choice of new love interest when you are far superior to this person and in other ways besides.
Recognise that this is your emotional thinking which is masquerading as logic and reject it before it reaches a tipping point and you become involved again.
Breaching no contact in these circumstances rarely results in you becoming ensnared in the Formal Relationship again (because of course we have someone new) but it provides benefits to us (as detailed above) but it maintains your obsession and investment so that your no contact has crumbled and may never be re-built so that when we do hoover you at a later stage to resurrect the Formal Relationship, it is easy.
5. Provocation Via Third Parties
We will not contact you direct. We want to remain aloof and draw you to us by causing you to commit no contact suicide. It reinforces our perception of power if we can cause you to destroy your own no contact and come to us.
A further way of bringing this about is to say something about you to a third party, knowing it will get back to you. It might be to a friend of yours, a colleague, the children you share with us, another family member or a neighbour. Examples would include :-
“I am rather concerned about Anne’s drinking at the moment and I wondered if you, as her sister, might have a word with her before it gets out of hand.”
“Yes, I have tried to be civil with your friend but every time I go past her house to get to work she opens the window and shouts dog’s abuse at me. I have no idea why she is being like this, but she clearly has some kind of mental problem.”
“You know Daddy tried to stop me from seeing you because he is jealous of what a lovely time we have together. That’s not nice is it.”
“Well, I do not mind if you go to the concert but your Mum has said you are not allowed to, so you need to take it up with her.”
“I hear she has been looking for jobs with Alpha Corporation. Yes she said she is sick of being taken for granted by you and her colleagues.”
Naturally these will be lies but the intention is for this to be relayed to you and your annoyance at our behaviour, your need to establish the truth and have others knows it (including us) will cause your emotional thinking to surge so you will send a furious text message or telephone us to confront us. Once you do and we gain fuel from your response, we will use various manipulations to keep you engaging as we draw more fuel and feed the emotional infection so you will not let the matter go.
No matter how annoyed you are, how tempting it is to want to put us in our place, this is a deliberate provocation through a third party to cause you to breach no contact and get in touch with us.
There are many other methods that are deployed in bringing about this form of No Contact Suicide but the end game is the same – we want you to make contact with us by message, by telephone and best of all in person so your no contact has been destroyed and we can get what we want from you.
Understand that this is a motivation on our part. Recognise that if we have not directly hoovered you (when you expected it to happen) that we may well be engineering you to commit no contact suicide and familiarise yourself with the ways that this comes about so you can tackle your emotional thinking and maintain no contact.
28 thoughts on “No Contact Suicide – Part One”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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I am being hoovered bec I have not blocked him on telephone. It has been two weeks since I went NC , except that I have not yet blocked him on my phone.
He keeps calling, 23 times in a row last week, and today 6 missed calls and 4 text messages,
1: asking if our dogs could meet for a playdate
2: calling me «sour cow»
3: stating «great»
4: «I’ll come by after work»
So do I just block him now? Or should I answer something clever without fuel first.
Change your number.
HG, just saw you said Grey Rock Does Not Work 😱 how then do I deal with a Narc ex friend that I have to come face to face with each week?! Somewhere I have to go. How do I not Fuel? (It’s not socially appropriate to just ignore and walk by in this case)
Thanks 😁
1. Why do you have to come face to face with this person?
We have to attend a class at the same time and there is a very small waiting room. A commitment for the next few months. (This is an ex friend and neighbour so I would normally be “expected” to “chat”) and there are children present and watching, so this is an additional factor.
We at least have to pass eachother. Can I just say hello? Forsure my hello has fuel lol
Why do you have to attend a class at the same time? Can you not change class?
Why do you have to wait in that waiting room? Can you wait elsewhere or just turn up right on time and enter the class.
You have no obligation to chat, although your ET makes you think you have. You have an obligation to yourself to stay away from an individual which adversely impacts on your well-being and quality of life.
💯 wow so right HG. Damn ET!!! Thank you 💕
*writes 100 times on the blackboard*: No, I won’t contact him. No, I won’t contact him. ……
But I want to talk to him, and I want an apology!! ;D ;D
I had the luxury of getting an apology from mine. He couldn’t say “I’m sorry. You didn’t deserve this.” enough. Over and over again so I couldn’t get a word in edgewise. Then he slide in ever so sneaky “I’m sorry you misunderstood” followed by more apologies. I didn’t know anything about narcissistic behaviors. I may have been almost four years too late but I sure saw that apology for the lie that it was. If he never says the words you want to hear, believe me, that is just one less lie you have to hear.
True.
This one said “there is no excuse for loosing my temper ….. BUT ….. you made me”, etc. etc.
I kind of believe the exnarc that it wasn’t his intention to traumatize me longterm.
In between he once cried into my ears how guilty he felt, etc. – until I told him that we could be in contact again and then he was his good old self in an instant again and laughed about it. :/
The other woman and I were both blindsided. I talked to him twice before blocking his calls. He said we could still be friends and that he would always care about me. He had never spoken an unkind word to me in the whole time we were together. We never fought. He was never angry with me. Why should he be? I was so kind and forgiving every single time.
We both got taken due to our kind hearts. Please don’t look back. A world of tears and lies is all that is back there. No matter his intentions, nothing good can come from him. We deserve better.
Dearest HG: I was having a wonderful morning, drinking my specially created coffee recipe, and reading your works, (1) when my married best friend at work, recently ensnared by the Narc, messaged me to see if I were feeling better. I told her I was better and thanked her. (2) Then she contacted me again to remind me to video tape a happy birthday message for the Narc for the party she is throwing for him, and to send it to her for the collection for next Friday (ahhh….the real reason to check up on me was this video snippet). I am taking next week off also, in order to miss this party. (3) I told her that I was not up to it and that I went to the Doctor and have a touch of bronchitis and that I am on steroids (all not true). (4) Then she messaged me back and told me that I am so important for the department and to just put a hat on and lower my head and say Happy Birthday to him. (5) I told her that I am a mess and am sick and in bed. No response. Why does she need me so desperately to send her a video message to him. The department is large. I am dis-engaging from him, and can not tell her. I believe that there is now a breach between us over this Birthday Party she is planning for the Narc. I am surprised at how hard she pushed me to participate. She is in a slight state of mania. I did not fold, but I feel awful.
It is not clear if your friend is ensnared by the same narcissist that you were ensnared with and who disengaged from you. I will proceed on the basis that it is the same person. I suspect primarily her own addiction to the narcissist is causing her own ET to make her do things so she keeps engaging with him (by doing things for him and thinking about him) so she keeps chasing you re the video. This is also a Hoover by Proxy which may be an inadvertent one for the reasons explained re her ET.
I read the book on getting revenge. Excellent as are all the books I have so far! I believe that I shall seek revenge. I’m not above it. There is no doubt I will be running into him with her. It’s a small town. Living well will be my revenge.
I want to vent my spleen about 2 items, my dear empath and narcissist friends:
1. Revenge is beneath me. I’ve never taken revenge with one exception for the protection of my family which required swift decisive action at 2am one time. All worked as planned only to be told that it was God’s doing. Very fucking infuriating to me. Almost every time after careful analysis of any situation, revenge is petty, worthless and stupid. I do think up scenarios from all possible angles and their consequences as any human would.
2. Closure is something of which I was made aware reading magazines and through friends discussions. Closure is a peculiar concept. I never needed closure about relationships because I am attuned to the facts and I will have made a decision about the outcome. So why would I need closure?! Why would anyone? I view it is as a form of brainwashing or propaganda that has penetrated some people’s mind to doubt and weaken their confidence. I have no other explanation for closure. The only time I’d use language like that is to fit into a conversation (I am not even old or outdated).
My spleen feels better!
Singlet – I agree with you in that revenge is beneath me. Interestingly, I know someone on the autistic spectrum (very high functioning), but she “needs” to be told something before she accepts it. She can’t read subtlety in social interaction, it needs to be spelled out, in black and white. It’s painful to watch in her romantic life, it really is. She doesn’t trust her own judgement because she gets it so wrong elsewhere. She’s a narc’s dream, sadly.
Blackunicorn123 – Do you think autistic people are easy pray for narcissists or easily manipulated in general?
Hi Sniglet, I’m having signal problems so I apologise for the slow reply.
I only have experience of high functioning Autism, but from what I observe, I think it is a bit of both. They have trouble with even basic level social cues, so they have little to no chance against a narc. They have learned not to trust their own judgment, so they are a narc’s playground. It’s cruel and sad.
There is no reason to concern ourself with #1 as you cover that nicely with your blog, I hear that #2 has also been dealt with somewhere in your writing here also so I guess that only leaves 3 for us to contend with. 👍
Discarded (harshly), blocked and replaced a month ago. 3rd time in 3 years. Received a message today from him wanting to make arrangements to pay me back. Was shocked thinking I’d never see my money again-it’s quite a lot. Trying to not analyze it but his out of town girlfriend will be in town to visit. Found it odd he decided to unblock me now. Am I naive to think he just wants to move on and do right by paying me back and let me move on?
Yes you are.
My ex has created a new Facebook profile as we had blocked each other on his old one and he has left everything public including his friends list. He is now provoking me with a new profile picture wearing something he knows will piss me off. Will not blocking him make him think that he is insignificant if I haven’t reacted? Thanks HG. Love your work!
Why not delete your FB account completely, so that you are subjected to fewer narcissists in general?
Another red flag to distinguish a narc. They want you to view so you get upset over their posts. They always try to remain friends with exes too. They can never let anyone ‘go’ because that’s the choice of the empath then and they have to be the ones calling the shots.
An extreme example of this is Jeffrey Dahmer, who drugged and had sex with his victims and then ate them so he would always have a piece of them inside him.
Blocking him is a good idea, because guaranteed he’s still searching for your name to see if you’re leaving him any tid bits about your life. If he searches and you’ve vanished, I think he will try other tactics to try and ‘nark’ you.
Good luck, Fay.
HG, if you have been discarded by a mid range narcissist and he has no IPPS, what is more tempting for him to hoover you back or play with your emotions once again: the situation when you are in no contact and display happiness, do not mention him and are content with your life and act like he never existed or the situation when you are in no contact but he knows you are still hurt and in pain and have difficulty to move on?
There are a variety of factors which influence whether you would be hoovered and those examples you provide would not stand alone as factors, therefore their impact on whether you would be hoovered may well be reduced by the impact of the other factors. You need to see what the totality of the factors are to make an accurate determination. A narcissist may well hoover in either of the situations you describe because of the impact of other factors alongside the ones you have mentioned.