Am I The Narcissist?
95 thoughts on “Am I The Narcissist?”
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I feel that for many people, the question of whether oneself is the/a narcissist is an integral part of the journey towards awareness and healing. And sometimes, especially when the dynamic with the actual narcissist has been so confusing that it is hard to tell who manipulated and hurt who at the end of the relationship, the question whether or not one is a/the narcissist is an important one that has to be solved first. I feel that I can only be fair and prudent with regards to defining and labelling other people’s behaviours when I have a clear understanding of what and who I am which means being able to draw a clear line between self and other and to have clear boundaries that define me as a person of my own.
I had a hard time to unravel and untangle this confusion. I know and understand why it is regarded as part of the empath’s tendency to self-flagellate, and I am willing to accept this notion. Yet it was only after I went NC with ‘my’ narcissist that I finally found the courage and discomfort enough with the status quo to not only step out of my phase of denial I had lived in for years by confronting myself with the very origins of my repeated abusive entanglements but also, to have a closer look at ‘who I actually am’. I don’t know much/enough about other readers’ family histories – perhaps someone can relate to what I am writing here. All I know for certain is that I stem from a family that is characterised by an extreme enmeshment of (attributed) roles/role reversals, of functions and consequently, of boundaries that should normally define each member of the system as a distinct ‘entity’. This enmeshment is a familial pattern/dysfunction that has been passed on from generation to generation. It seems to be so deeply ingrained into the family system that, at times, it is nearly impossible to tell ‘who is who/what’ in the (sub-)dynamics: who went NC with whom? Who is giving who the silent treatment? Who is the actual perpetrator, who the ‘victim’? The Easter holidays were quite revealing in that regard, including the quite shocking realisation that siblings I thought were oblivious to what happened confided in me that they had silently contemplated going NC with the family many times in the past as well.
I wanted to share this as part of my perspective because this has been the very foundation of my back and forth thought processes before I was able, with HG’s help, to finally accept that I am indeed NOT a narcissist and consequently, a) clearly distinct from the abusive ‘perpetrator’ (because this had not always been clear to me) and b) not responsible for other people’s abusive behaviours and actions towards me. It further helped me to clearly see my actions as a REACTION to sustained abuse and not as stemming from a lack of empathy and compassion.
Hi HG,
Great video! As a super empath, during my supernovas I have of course often think I am a narcissist this is why:
I realized that I feel powerful during the event and then when my empathy goes back to normal, I don’t care about feeling powerful.
I do act narcissisticly as a self defense mechanism to protect myself against others, narcs, and my family when I feel they are being abusive.
I have pride and I am status oriented because my family is as conditional love. Thus, if I have achieved status, then I feel safe from their criticisms.
So, to an extent, I can understand what it is feels like to be an actual narcissist from those feelings and behaviors described above.
1. On the DSM 5 (I’m a psychology B.A. grad), I have assessed and see that I have at least 5 of the criteria but yet I have empathy. Do you know why this would be?
2. Is partial NPD a diagnosis?
3. What differentiates the standard empath and super empath if both fight back and ground their empathic traits then?
1. All people have narcissistic traits. Some have those traits and have empathy – they are called empaths, empathic people, normal or narcissistic people. This does not include narcissists.
2. No.
3. A differentiation in the amount of and use of narcissistic traits and the point of fightback. This is The Cliff v Empathic Supernova – different scenarios of fightback.
3. ok, in your video you mentioned that like the super empath, the standard empath is also able to ground his/her empathic traits. But how can the standard empath ground his/her empathic traits if he or she is not a super empath?
Through a cliff situation which will be written about in due course.
HG,
Do Co-D’s experience The Cliff, or is that standard empaths only?
Also, I know your list is long, but a video/article about The Cliff would be very informative.
Thank you.
They do, though it is less likely to occur.
It will appear in due course.
I appreciated the way you explain the difference here re: super empath narc traits vs how a standard empath becomes ground down and shows her narc traits.
Also the way you explained how we have to THINK ABOUT the manipulations, and that they don’t work as well vs the narc instinct and being very successful with those manipulations.
I was confused on those points, and it makes total sense now. Thank you.
Hi all
Just a question here I find when I’m at work I’m so busy I never give the ex narc a second thought.
However when I get my holidays I start ruminating , it isn’t deliberate I know logically if I was to talk to him right now I would be less than impressed .
It’s like I’ve blown him into another character in my mind when I’m not in contact.
I know it sounds mad but is it just my subconscious mind filtering stuff.
My work is mentally taxing so these thoughts don’t get a chance when I’m at work .
It’s when I’m relaxed enjoying myself that the thoughts start.
I can’t keep occupied constantly , I need to be able to unwind but when I do the narc emerges in my head.
Any ideas how to stop this .
Hi bubbles…ive felt like you and its easier when preoccupied to not think of the narc as much. When youre alone or have more time to reflect are the dangerous moments. What i found helped at the time is to replace those i miss him thoughts with the very thing he did to cause issues in the relationship. Based on what others have written i dont think theres any fullproof answer except time and facing those uncomfortable moments and working thru them. Thats why no contact is imperitive bc you need complete time away from any setbacks.
Hello, Kiki.
I have a similar issue of when I get down time is when thoughts begin. What kind of hobbies do you enjoy? I find that I have to find enjoyable ways to occupy my mind. If I am with others and thoughts come up, I have to remind myself to be fully engaged with those I am with and make an effort to be fully involved.
When that doesn’t work, as it always doesn’t and I struggle with the thoughts, I pray or I think of the known things he has done or said that hurts. Then I get upset, knowing I won’t do anything about it, but I stop thinking of the good side.
Great advice, “Getting There”…
Quick add: when vulnerable with your thoughts like that, Kiki, try to steer clear of things that make you susceptible to romanticizing, like lovey dovey music/romance movies/heartrending books…
Also, sometimes just a change in scenery helps — take a walk and really observe everything around you, or make a run to the grocery store and be purposefully friendly with others… or call an especially engaging,funny friend. One of easiest way to keep your mind engaged but still relax is probably reading, so maybe stock up on some books that will really hold your interest. If you play an instrument, paint or draw, that is really helpful; the brain focuses so much w/ the fine motor skills that it can override your rumination (my experience anyway).
Thank you, Caroline-is-fine!
I really like the suggestions you included; they are great and I plan on using some as well!
Thanks, Getting There :-)…There’s one I forgot, which will sound pretty goofy, but it’s coloring. One of my friends uses it for stress relief (she says it slows down her thoughts). I know they also encouraged coloring as a chronic pain “distractor” at a Mayo Clinic rehab program (another friend of mine went there several years ago for a sports-related injury).
So my friend who uses coloring as a stress reducer… she uses colored pencils and buys the coolest pads — her last one was this giant book of cityscapes around the world. Last time I dropped in to see her, I saw Paris, London and New York City — in full-colored glory on her fridge. I asked her, “A wee bit stressed lately?” lol. They look amazing though. She hands them out to kids for fun. She gave me a sheet, and I’ve worked on it some while watching the news, for my little niece… she’s right – it’s super relaxing.;-)
LOL, Caroline- can-color, I like the name!
Thank you for the suggestion! That’s great that your friend introduced it to you and has found a way to relieve stress!
I had actually received books and color pencils as a gift once but never used them; thanks to you, I am going to try.
My friend told me about an app that lets you color but I am not sure if it has the same stress relief as actual hand color and paper.
Have you tried cooking or baking? I do that to keep my mind on a recipe and what I am doing with the ingredients. Short term mental distraction and a, hopefully, good outcome.
GT,
I love cooking, but I’m the Lucille Ball of Baking…most baked “goods” turns out oh-so-bad! But I agree, both baking & cooking can be really nice stress relievers.
Oops. I’m commenting solely about cooking & baking. I think that’s against the blog rules… running away now.>>>
#Bake&CookYourWayToGOSO (better?)
Careful.
LOL, Caroline-is- fine! Maybe if we are listening to HG while cooking, we are still on the safe side of the rules.
GT,
Perfect! Well, except I can’t understand HG on his audios – he has this very strange accent – a real foreign language for me.
Heh…heh.
(Yes, yes, HG – I’m skedaddling away now – yes, yes, I’m being as careful as I can be).
Received Pronunciation a strange accent, well if you say so!
Thank you GT ,
HG has posted why is the narc always on my mind .
I’m just going to read it now.
I think our mind engineers them into something more than they are also ,it’s really weird .
My logical mind couldn’t care less but the emotional part is the killer.
The only thing I find stops the thought is tiredness a really good book or complex mental tasks such as mathematics lol.
My mind can wander otherwise no matter what I’m doing.
I love to walk but for some reason this makes it really bad.
Hello, Kiki.
I read that post from HG; it is good! Very helpful!
That disconnect between logic and emotions is one of the hardest parts for me. Even before I discovered HG, but especially since, I would pick up things logically and “file away for later;” however, the emotions take over where I act on emotions while the logic is trying to be Jiminy Cricket.
Books are great! I just learned that there are a few math problems which have stumped mathematicians and some group is offering $1M per solution. Maybe this could be a win/win for you if you do this as fun during down time: forget your narcissist and get $1M. 😀
That’s great that you like walking! Do you listen to anything while walking?
Hi GT
Imagine winning that .Dont think I’m at that level to be honest just love to solve and analyse.
I’m now free , well apart from the ex narc in my head.
It’s very annoying .Why I even think about it.
Sometimes I think is there something wrong with me !
Im much stronger than I was but sometimes I feel the thoughts will never go away .
I stick to HGs teaching religiously they work but it takes time for the emotions to catch up with the logic.
Kiki
Hi, Kiki.
I hope you can remember that there is nothing wrong with you when you have those moments.
I understand what you are saying and am sorry you are going through that! At times, I would love to be Spock. LOL
Dear Kiki,
I luv kids movies and comedies…. everything and anything that makes me laugh (I’m always watching funny you tube videos, just this morning it was Dave Allen the Irish comedian)
Laughter is the best medicine 🤣
Best wishes
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Every day I wonder if I am a narcissist. Then I say no because
1. empathy, I know I have it
2. HG says I am empath
Still, I struggle with this all the time. And I think wouldn’t a midrange start to wonder and then say “no, I’m not”?
Ugh…besides, I’ve done so many stupid things.
Thanks HG, I liked this very much and am checking out your other audios.
Nunya biz,
You’re #1 & #2 reasons are way more than enough to reassure yourself, but a few other points:
I’m pretty darn sure a narcissist wouldn’t be wondering/concerned every day if they’re a narcissist, because they’d not self-reflect that much — and their defense mechanisms would shield them much more effectively. You’re truly concerned about it, and you’re trying to make sure you’re not one; whereas midrange narcissists are internally wired to take the very first train they’d see out of “I’m a Narcville.”
Plus, a narcissist would only say, “I’ve done so many stupid things” as a pity ploy/attention-seeking reason, not in the manner which you’re so obviously doing it: as a humble, personal reflection/taking personal responsibility statement.
Stop it! 😉 You’re so an empath! 😀
Ha, thank you, Caroline. You’ve made me feel better this morning. Like ava was saying I catch myself doing blatantly manipulating things once in awhile. But I don’t really get stuck in unempathetic thought loops I guess. I’ve had two dreams about people devaluing me with thought loops in two days, very odd dreams.
But I should be happy anyway, since reading here I’ve been better able to identify behaviors and I’ve made a few improvements. Things are good-ish. Got a new job yesterday for easter!
nunya biz,
“Things are good-ish. Got a new job yesterday for easter!”
Congrats on the new job!
Thank you WC, I’m very happy about it!
Nunya Biz,
“Good-ish” is good enough – and small, steady improvement is dandy…not every day needs to be jellybeans raining down on high (actually, that’d be horribly violent). Speaking of jellybeans/Easter… congrats on your new job~good for you! 🙂
I agree, Caroline! Taking it as it comes : ) Thank you for your positive words.
You’re welcome 🙂 XO
NB, Congrats on your new job and best of luck! I hope that you’ll love it!💕
Thank you MP, I’m very happy so far. I’m sure I made the right decision to switch work environments and on top of that it is because of this blog that I was able to be extra sure I chose a non-narcissist work place. I went for this particular position because the woman who hired me goes out of her way to be fair and has herself brought up her dedication to not exploit her employees. I feel really comfortable about it and appreciative of her style. Big plus for me and I have this blog to thank for my confidence level about it.
I love reading this NunyaBiz. It’s so full of positive energy. I am excited and happy for you. It’s so wonderful to read how this blog has positively affected you. This blog has changed me too. I was thinking of having therapy because I never had one and I thought well maybe I should have one because I might have some kind of C-PTSD from all of what I went through. I couldn’t find one where I live but now I really feel that I don’t need one. I got the acceptance that I need to completely move on. It does feel empowering and so I can totally relate to you crediting this blog for the positive energy you have in your new working environment and the choice that you made in picking the people that you would want to work with. It’s very inspiring. ❤️
mommypino, your confidence is really evident in a good way. I think you are doing great.
Thank you NunyaBiz!
HG,
narcissist told me that he never loved anyone and he thought that something is wrong with him, that when someone tells him that love him, he says, i love you too, in order to respect.
Does he knows that he is narcissist (greater) or he is mid who is suspicious?
Thx
He does not know what he is. He is not a Greater. Organise a Narc Detector Consultation to learn more.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Your talk felt similar to having that first cup of really delicious “pick me up” hot coffee first thing in the morning
*Sigh* arhhhhhhhhh .. I feel so much better now ☕️
Thank you for explaining and confirming any doubts
Most appreciated
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hola, a todos.
Si H.G posiblemente haya leído material equivocado. Aunque ciertamente no lo tengo en gran valoración ni es mi libro de cabecera. Por el contrario, los tuyos sí. Simplemente lo leí para entender, o entender el punto psicológico de este trastorno.
Pero claro está, estas son las percepciones, imaginaciones, posibilidades, etc de Sam Vaknin simplemente. y las tome como tal. Meras posibilidades. Ya sabes nada concreto, todas vaguedades psicológicas, extrañas posibilidades, para intentar dar algún tipo de explicación científica, pero sin ninguna base realmente sólida.
Quien dijo que la percepción de Sam Vaknin fuera la biblia narcisista, yo lo he leído y realmente no me lleno a convencer del todo, pero pude comprender su punto de vista, del yo, del falso yo, el yo verdadero y del yo y más yo, yo y más yoes. Ajajajjaja. (aquí me perdí, pero después me encontré jajajaja)
Desde que comience su libro y ya dejo él que ni si quiera las pruebas psicológicas eran concluyentes por muchos factores de error, para mí el libro quedo un poco como descartado, pero como lo compre pues lo leí y Si bueno una información más variada, otras perspectivas y puntos de vistas.
Yo solo he leído a H.G y Vaknin, y no creo que busque más información sobre el trastorno.
Me gusta más H.G por que el refleja a la perfección todo lo que he vivido. Por eso yo siempre estoy por aquí dejando comentarios. Jaajjajaja. Realmente el libro de Sam solo me sirvió para comprender una cosa que no veía y es que, sí, el narcisista tiene un trastorno, las victimas previo al abuso también tenemos un trastorno. Como se llega aquí, no lo sé, pero que estamos todos un poco trastornados eso es seguro. Algunos más, otros menos. Pero a fin de cuentas algo nos pasa. No quiero que se ofenda nadie, pero si lo piensa, estas aquí porque no tenemos bien definidos los limites y no estamos correctamente balanceados en empatía y narcisismo. Tanto narcisistas como empáticos. Por exceso o defecto, ambos estamos descompensados y por tanto este es el trastorno. Si estuviéramos balanceados no estaríamos en los extremos estaríamos en el centro y no tendríamos o habríamos vivido estas experiencias ni hablando sobre este tema.
Fuera parte de eso el libro de Sam lo tome como eso, información que hay que coger con pinzas, porque no da ninguna certeza de nada. Por el contrario, para mí, H.G cuando escribe te destripa, te disecciona de tal manera, que la víctima sabe reconocerlo en su interior, porque lo ha experimentado en sus propias carnes. La victima sabe reconocer visceralmente cuales son las manos profesionales de un narcisista, H.G tudor sabe que tocar, que decir, como infligir dolor nuevamente al traerte de nuevo el pasado a tu mente y sobre todo te deja ver y enseña las seis W preguntas básicas de un empático periodista jajjajaja.. También conocidas como 5W y una H.
¿Quien?
¿Que?
¿Cuándo?
¿Donde?
¿Como?
Y ¿Por qué?
Hello, everybody.
If H.G. may have read the wrong material. Although I certainly don’t highly value it and it’s not my bedside book. On the contrary, yours do. I simply read it to understand, or understand the psychological point of this disorder.
But of course, these are Sam Vaknin’s perceptions, imaginations, possibilities, etc. simply and I took them as such. Mere possibilities. You know nothing concrete, all psychological vagueness, strange possibilities, to try to give some kind of scientific explanation, but without any really solid basis.
Whoever said that Sam Vaknin’s perception was the narcissistic bible, I have read it and I don’t really convince myself at all, but I was able to understand his point of view, the “I”, the false “I”, the true “I” and the “I” and more “I”, “I” and more “I”. Ajajajjaja. (I got lost here, but then I found myself hahahaha)
From the beginning of his book and I let him that not even the psychological tests were conclusive by many factors of error, for me the book was a little as discarded, but as I bought it then I read it and If well a more varied information, other perspectives and points of view.
I have only read H.G. and Vaknin, and I don’t think I’m looking for more information about the disorder.
I like H.G better because it perfectly reflects everything I’ve experienced. That’s why I’m always around leaving comments. Hahahahaha. Sam’s book really only helped me to understand one thing that I didn’t see and that is that, yes, the narcissist has a disorder, victims prior to abuse also have a disorder. As you get here, I do not know, but we are all a little upset that’s for sure. Some more, some less. But in the end something happens to us. I don’t want anyone to be offended, but if you think about it, you are here because we don’t have well defined limits and we are not correctly balanced in empathy and narcissism. Both narcissistic and empathic. By excess or defect, both of us are unbalanced and therefore this is the disorder. If we were balanced we would not be in the extremes we would be in the center and we would not have or we would have lived these experiences not even talking about this topic.
Apart from that, Sam’s book takes it as that, information that has to be picked up with tweezers, because it doesn’t give any certainty of anything. On the contrary, for me, when H.G. writes he gutters you, he dissects you in such a way that the victim knows how to recognize it inside himself, because he has experienced it in his own flesh. The victim knows how to viscerally recognize which are the professional hands of a narcissist, H.G tudor knows what to touch, what to say, how to inflict pain again to bring back the past to your mind and above all lets you see and teaches the six W basic questions of an empathic journalist hahahahahaha. Also known as 5W and an H.
Who?
What?
When?
Where?
How?
And why?
Hello, everybody.
If H.G. may have read the wrong material. Although I certainly don’t highly value it and it’s not my bedside book. On the contrary, yours do. I simply read it to understand, or understand the psychological point of this disorder.
But of course, these are Sam Vaknin’s perceptions, imaginations, possibilities, etc. simply and I took them as such. Mere possibilities. You know nothing concrete, all psychological vagueness, strange possibilities, to try to give some kind of scientific explanation, but without any really solid basis.
Whoever said that Sam Vaknin’s perception was the narcissistic bible, I have read it and I don’t really convince myself at all, but I was able to understand his point of view, the “I”, the false “I”, the true “I” and the “I” and more “I”, “I” and more “I”. Ajajajjaja. (I got lost here, but then I found myself hahahaha)
From the beginning of his book and I let him that not even the psychological tests were conclusive by many factors of error, for me the book was a little as discarded, but as I bought it then I read it and If well a more varied information, other perspectives and points of view.
I have only read H.G. and Vaknin, and I don’t think I’m looking for more information about the disorder.
I like H.G better because it perfectly reflects everything I’ve experienced. That’s why I’m always around leaving comments. Hahahahaha. Sam’s book really only helped me to understand one thing that I didn’t see and that is that, yes, the narcissist has a disorder, victims prior to abuse also have a disorder. As you get here, I do not know, but we are all a little upset that’s for sure. Some more, some less. But in the end something happens to us. I don’t want anyone to be offended, but if you think about it, you are here because we don’t have well defined limits and we are not correctly balanced in empathy and narcissism. Both narcissistic and empathic. By excess or defect, both of us are unbalanced and therefore this is the disorder. If we were balanced we would not be in the extremes we would be in the center and we would not have or we would have lived these experiences not even talking about this topic.
Apart from that, Sam’s book takes it as that, information that has to be picked up with tweezers, because it doesn’t give any certainty of anything. On the contrary, for me, when H.G. writes he gutters you, he dissects you in such a way that the victim knows how to recognize it inside himself, because he has experienced it in his own flesh. The victim knows how to viscerally recognize which are the professional hands of a narcissist, H.G tudor knows what to touch, what to say, how to inflict pain again to bring back the past to your mind and above all lets you see and teaches the six W basic questions of an empathic journalist hahahahahaha. Also known as 5W and an H.
Who?
What?
When?
Where?
How?
And why?
This is what I like most about H.G. Tudor. And what gives total validity to his work.
The Milky Bar Buttons are on me!
Ohhh I SO needed to hear this, Mr Tudor!
I’m a Greater Narcissist!
I mean I’m an Empath! I’m a bloody Empath! I’m gonna miss you most of all Scarecrow. There’s no place like home. There’s no place like home. Come on, Toto – I’ve got a bag of pork in my pocket, then your smile will match mine.
Thank you so much for sharing this Mr. Tudor. It may be of no consequence but I am literally crying from relief. You explained in a way that you broke thru the barriers my narc put up to cause my self doubt. Plus I’m not the brightest candle on the tree. Thank you.
M.
You are welcome.
I do not think I am a Narcissist, but I do think I have both really strong empathic and narcissistic traits. I’m a little bit calculated, and stubborn, but I really do love and try to take care of people.
HG, I am starting to think that Narcissist are drawn to me for both my empathic and narcissistic traits. Is this possible? It’s like a game for the narcissist, to see how you play the cards you were dealt.
Your narcissistic traits generate fuel, character traits and residual benefits. Let’s take pride for example thus
1. Fuel. Your pride makes you argue more often thus you provide more fuel.
2. Character Traits. Your pride in your work means you are very driven and this causes you to achieve certain accolades in your profession. The narcissist appropriates these accolades.
3. Residual Benefits. Your pride means you work hard and are well paid. The narcissist benefits from your financial position.
Empathic and narcissistic traits support the Prime Aims which of course are what attract the narcissist.
ANM thank you for articulating this question, and thank you HG for your lengthy answer.
This is something I have always wondered about regarding myself as well.
When someone is way too nice to me, but in a kind of one-dimensional, narrowminded way, like constantly!!!! texting to ask me how my day is going without EVER saying anything of substance … but ignores what I had said about me being in a stressful situation or when/how I could meet him and when/how not —– then I feel a bit narcissistic myself, like blameshifting and other stuff, and am _tempted_ to put him down …
Don’t know why. 🙁
A+ Ava,
That’s thoughtless behavior, so it seems to me that’s legit annoyance on your part. Maybe instead of venting the anger as a putdown, just be calmly direct & let him know which of his behaviors are crossing boundaries. I had a harder time doing this in the past, but the more you do it, the more natural it gets. With the exception of narcissists, my experience is that most people respond pretty well to polite assertiveness.
Final sentence is spot on.
Thank you.
Thank you Caroline-is-fine, I suppose, you are right, and I think all of your sentences are spot on. 🙂
I see how I hadn’t learned alternative ways to react in childhood, but I should have learned by now. … But I didn’t put him down (in this recent example), there is also the difference, I guess. But I have caught myself blame shifting once or twice. 🙁
I will continue practicing polite assertiveness.
You’re being a little hard on yourself, A+ Ava. You don’t ever need to be perfect, but it’s great how aware you are about how childhood has affected certain areas for you… that’s really healthy. We’re all on this life journey, trying to heal past hurts, learn better ways, & keep growing. 🙂
(I really should stop calling you “A+ Ava,” if I’m trying to get you to see you don’t need to be perfect! LOL) 😀
Caroline -Is-Fine. Just needed to say Hi and hope all is well. Anything new? Miss seeing you…….
Hi, Kim e~thank you, so sweet. 🙂 I’m doing well (NC holding nicely/no news is the best news). How’s it going on your journey to break free, doll?
Caroline is fine…….not so well. I kinda gave up for now. My work has me going to school to learn how to write SQL and it has me stressed to the max. So for now the school anxiety is winning over the narc anxiety.
I will get there is due time…I believe the saying is “a time for every season”.
Glad to see you are doing well and that NC is holding tight.
Thanks, Kim e…but I’m really sorry to hear you’re having a rough go at it. 🙁 I do understand where you’re at anxiety-wise (good for you at being so honest about it), but just never lose sight that you’re that same strong woman who kicked the smoking habit. That was not easy either. You know I hate to see you attached to a narcissist in *any* season, but I know this has to come from within you… so although I counter your “To everything there is a season” with “No time like the present!” (lol), just know that I’m here for stress relief, or anything that helps motivate you! 😉
I feel the same way, ava. Don’t like that at all.
Yes HG. I think I’m MMR Elite.
You’re not.
Am I a lower lesser?!!
No you are not!!
Just seeing this!
Thank you but how can you know? Actually I think I’m Victim cadre.
I know, I’m the expert.
Yes HG 🙌🙏 Our Saviour
Dearest HG: I used to wonder why some people on this site, wondered if they were the narcissist, after all they had been through and after all they know. However, I have been disengaging from the mid ranger since December, and now that I have finally caught my breath, I found myself asking the same thing. Am I the narcissist? So, I guess this is one of the phases of healing? And the Emotional Thinking is fighting the knowledge and deflecting it against our Logical Thinking, to lure us to look at the narcissist in a more positive light? To have an excuse to attempt to have an interaction with the narcissist to obtain a fix for the addiction? That is what I think is going on. When never before one had considered oneself the narcissist, and then this alarming thought comes up over time. I tell myself to ignore the thought and to stay on track with the disengaging.
Hello, H.G.Tudor.
I am afraid of this post. jajajajaj.
According to Sam Vaknin I am an inverted narcissist or what is the same as codependent. For the case it is the same but to the other premiere of the narcissistic bar. I don’t know if I’ll be ready.
Come on, courage, let’s go…
Now I’m an evil narcissist and I haven’t heard about it hahaha.
I have nerves.
Now I’ll tell you something.
The good news is, I’m not a narcissist. The bad news is that I’m a codependent fool. So I’m just the way I was.
When I read that, a codependent or inverted narcissist is the same as the narcissist. And that I was created by child traumas all the pieces finally fit together. For this reason, I can’t blame my narcissist for 100 percent of the story. I have a certain amount of responsibility. As in any story of two.
J.G., I agree trauma is in the mix, and kudos to you for embracing your role in a dysfunctional dynamic. I have a CoD sibling so I have read a good amount on the topic in different disciplines. IMO, Sam V, is incorrect. It seems foolish for SV to put forward such a hypothesis since it defies the very definition of narcissism and is not supported by current evidentiary data. Perhaps it is another case of blame shifting?
HG has created a brilliant and accurate model. If you have not already done so, read HG’s book “Chained” on how a CoD develops. HG’s writing style is far superior as well. You may also enjoy some of the works of Darlene Lancer for healing purposes.
You’re reading the wrong material
Inverted narc and co-dependent is NOT the same, and a codependent is not narcissistic. Sam Vaknin does not say that.
Sorry Ava101, but you are mistaken. SV gave exactly that point of view in his 2012 post on “When narcissists become codepentents”. I would provide a link, but I rather not pollute a superior site with misinformation.
Narcissists that seek to attach to greater narcissists are not codependent, they are opportunistic.
CoD’ are not narcissists.
Correct and I agree with your stance re non pollution
Interesting though, how my first answer didn’t get posted yet.
Sorry for disagreeing, HG. So how would you call my mother’s behaviour? Sure, she used the “job” of my father for her facade, but that doesn’t explain her not having ANY life of her own, serving him, letting him put her down every single day, and so on, with noone seeing them.
When she acts totally helpless around us (children), sure, she draws energy, but she didn’t get that from my father in the usual daily routine, she had to tend to him like to a 3-year-old.
HG, I knew you would agree on the point of non pollution 😉 Thank you for the confirmation as well.
HI Ava101, I just saw your response. Sorry for the delay in my reply. I am no expert on Sam V and do not care to be, so I really cannot argue any further on him. I do not agree that a narcissist can become a CoD empath. I don’t agree that CoD stems from DPD. One is considered an a behavioral pattern of a non-disordered person (CoD), and the other is in the DSM as a personality disorder (DPD). The CoD’s have a strong desire to be depended upon, where DPD desire to cling/depend on others. Very different orientations. Hence my prior comment. If you believe otherwise, I have no issue with that and respect your right to do so. I did not mean to offend.
No, he doesn’t, absolutely not. Listen more closely …
S.V. chose a really unlucky title there ….
He differentiates correctly while speaking of the dynamic in a certain setting (end of relationship):
– You have or you don’t have a personality disorder
– He says that towards the breakup the narc’s partner aquires a re-active quasi-narcissistic pseudo-pathology
– The narc shows _behaviours_ and does of course not change his pathology.
…
The INVERTED narcissist is something completely different!!! S.V. does not interchange the terms.
You really ought to differentiate between “traits”, “behaviours”; “reactions”, “reactive patterns” (as PTSD counts unfortunately as psychological illness, one _could_ use the term pathology here, but one should NEVER mix up a personality disorder with another kind of mental illness! Many can undergo therapy, a NPD cannot!!), and “disorder”.
I have aquired social anxiety as a re-action to my narc’s stalking when I tried to end contact. Believe me, he was not co-dependent in any way.
My mother did (does) appear to show co-dependent behaviours, but she is a narc. When my father died, her complete world deconstructed, she didn’t know what she liked to eat, what to do, and so on, she had no personality of her own, and even though a narc, she served my father like a slave and got abused by him.
My father was in no way a greater narc, but a lesser, while my mother is a mid ranger!
Either way, I will certainly not go through all of Sam Vaknins writings, now, to see how he uses every term, *lol*.
I think this is another time where the definition of “co-dependence” becomes a problem.
Narcs do rely on others to form their construct and false self – that could be considered a co-dependent characteristic.
Narcs do rely on others to “fill them up” with attention/praise/emotion – that could be considered a co-dependent characteristic.
However, narcs are NOT bonded to anyone, not even IPPS, which is the exact opposite of a co-dependent.
Narcs do NOT give of themselves/do things for others in order to define themselves.
This is the problem re: flitting from one source to another, you try to use the same definitions, and it just doesn’t work.
Just stick to narcsite and you won’t get confused.
Hi JG
I don’t believe SV is saying that every codependent is a narcissist. He said that if someone has DPD and only wants to be in relationship with a narcissist, then they are an inverted narcissist. Only because you have known narcissists doesn’t mean you’re an inverted narcissist.
I’m still not sure if inverted narcissists actually exist. I have a comment in moderation and I’m waiting to hear back on HG’s view.
You may not even be codependent but have had understandable reactions to a disordered situation.
They don’t exist.
What do you believe is the motivation behind SV making this up? Projection? confusion about victim narcissists? Lack of understanding of codependency?
I have to disagree for once.
My mother fits that perfectly, you have told me yourself that she is a narc (and oh yes, she definitely is), and she behaves like a codependent person, who can’t even look away from her object. My father was more important to her than her children (his needs).
+ Learned (or faked) helplessness, dependency on others, victim, no make-up or dying (is the spelling correct? ;D) of hair, no too fashionable clothes, no showing-off, non materialistic (except for stealing my inheritance) and not somatic. More intelligent than my father, but not showing that off, but supporting HIM.
How would you name that, HG?
Fortunately, my mother also refused to come visit me now on her own, because she can’t board a plane on her own without one of my sisters at her disposal all the time. 🙂 🙂
My auntie has an inverted nipple. Does this make her a co-dependant?
I like your style, Witch. If I drop the ‘I’ve still got a comment in moderation’ bomb into the conversation, politely – it’ll get published.
Don’t mind me – I’m on top of the world.
All comments get published eventually save for those which offend the rules.
Those that ‘demand’ either directly or indirectly or more likely to be delayed further because the transparent attempt at manipulation is pathetic.
Pathetic, says the person who scribbles graffiti on toliet doors because mummy upset him aawww
Oh, I know how you work.
This is nothing to do with me though, I was commenting about Witch.
Hi A Girl, I’m just excited to learn. If I have a specific interest I get very excited/passionate over it and want to know specific details.
When I came to HG about my narc situation, we had a lot banter and he also asked me a couple questions about why I would do this or that. So I know he is also picking up knowledge about our kind from his readers.
I know HG will do whatever he wants to do. I always keep in mind what he is, which is a narcissist and a domestic abuse perpetrator.
Hi Witch,
That’s why we’re all here – to learn. I’m the same as you, it can get addictive delving in to it all.
I think we should try to remember, (as Empaths) that we have also rebuffed people in our lives and possibly made them feel like crap too. The law of attraction is far and wide and we’ve all been selfish in our quests for what we want. The Empath to Narcissist spectrum line is long, with very few being that of the all-knowing, calculated manipulations of the Greater N – so I’m becoming less fearful in general as I read on. There’s reasons behind who we all are and why we subsequently do what we do.
Hi A Girl,
I wouldn’t even go around calling myself an empath because I personally find it cringe, for me.
As you said it’s a spectrum and we are all capable for doing and saying hurtful things, sometimes as an emotional response and sometimes on purpose.
Depending on the person I may be willing to say something hurtful on purpose.