The Wrong No Contact
No Contact.
This is what anybody who has been a victim of our kind must achieve. Whether that status of victim stems from being a friend to a narcissist where you are taken for granted, used when the narcissist needs a lift or someone to moan to or whether it is the beaten down and trampled Intimate Partner Primary Source who was wife, boyfriend or partner has endured and suffered extensive abuse, no contact is the antidote.
Building that robust and effective wall of no contact can be difficult. It is time consuming, requires rigour and perseverance and not only are you trying to repel the advances of the narcissist who is trying to breach your no contact regime, you also have to fight against yourself and your emotional thinking which is trying to make you breach no contact as well. Indeed, it is often your emotional thinking which proves to be the harder enemy to conquer and it is not a one-off battle. Your emotional thinking, because of who you are and the emotional infection your engagement with the narcissist has caused, means that this is an ongoing battle which requires your repeated vigilance. Through the application of understanding and building your Logic Defences, the task does become easier, but it is not one which goes away. Like any wall, it must be checked, maintained and patrolled, otherwise holes and breaches occur and the narcissist will impact on you once again.
Time and time again I see people who think they have put in place no contact and they have not. Sometimes it almost beggars belief that the victim thinks they have established no contact – it is obvious they have not. In other instances you could be forgiven (if forgiveness was something I gave) for thinking you have implemented no contact but in actual fact you have not. There are many instances where people think they have instigated no contact and all they have done is embark on The Wrong No Contact. Here are just a few of the many ways in which you might be getting no contact wrong and the risks that come with this.
- Looking At Social Media
Just because the narcissist does not explicitly know you have looked at his or her social media does not mean this is no contact. Indeed, we rely on you doing so and expect you to look at our social media, that is why in certain instances you are not blocked from looking at our Facebook account, Twitter feed, Instagram and so forth. We want you to look at it. Just because you are not interacting directly with us, just because you are not commenting and we are not replying, just because you are not adding likes – this is not no contact. If you are looking at our social media you are likely to see indirect jibes made about you, Relationship Bulletins about your replacement, reminders of the golden period and even direct attacks against you. This will result in :-
- a risk you will be upset, hurt, angry
- the maintenance of the emotional infection because you are thinking about us
- a surge of emotional thinking which may cause you to contact us to attack us for our barbed comments towards you, to seek answers when you are upset about the reminder of an anniversary or similar
- stopping you from moving forward
2. Not Blocking Our Number
You may think that it will be the first thing you will do when you commence no contact. You block our number from your telephone and mobile phone so that we cannot call or text you from the relevant number. Of course we may get around this by using a different device therefore that is why you are better served by changing your telephone numbers, but if you do not change the numbers then you ought to block the new number of ours which appears and keep doing so, like a matador dodging the on rushing bull each time to avoid harm.
Nevertheless, the number of occasions I see people who claim they are no contact but they have not blocked our number is higher than you might think. These people think that if they, as victim, do not contact us, then that is no contact. No, it is not. Of course, those people who do not block the number are giving in to their emotional thinking because they WANT the narcissist to contact them.
If you do not block our number, this is not no contact. One of the easiest hoovers for us to perform is to text you. It uses no effort, it brings with it a reduced consequence of wounding (say compared to ringing you on the telephone or seeing you in person) and allows the drawing of fuel. If you do not block our number, you are lowering the hoover bar to such a low level that hoovers are more or less inevitable.
The emotional thinking of victims tells them things such as :-
- It is over, there was a ‘final discard’ he will never contact me anyway;
- If she does text me, I won’t reply and that will wound her, so actually I am ‘winning’;
- There might be an emergency and therefore I cannot block him
Utter rubbish.
There is no such thing as a final discard. We will contact you, subject to the Hoover Trigger being activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met. If you do not block us, this is going to happen. You will be hoovered.
If you allow a text through, you are maintaining the emotional infection and you will suffer a surge in emotional thinking which may very well result in you responding and before you know it, you are not only providing fuel but you are being drawn back into the Formal Relationship. Months later you will ask ‘how the hell did that happen?’ Every text which arrives adds more and more to your emotional thinking until such time that you can no longer resist. Oh, I hear your protestations that you can resist but i have witnessed such resolve melt away. If you are playing Russian roulette and pull the trigger once and do not blow your brains out, you have survived. Pick the gun up again and again and again and eventually you will kill yourself. This is the similar effect of repeatedly engaging with us by allowing those texts through – you WILL succumb.
So what if there is an emergency? I know you are kind, decent and honest but we are no longer your concern in that respect. You need to remind yourself that you have no obligation towards us (of course our perspective will make us tell you differently) and therefore that False Suicide Power Play Hoover is not something you have to deal with. If you co-parent establish a mechanism whereby the narcissist e-mails routine communication to you. You tell the narcissist in advance that you will check the e-mails once a week at a set time and never deviate from this. This way you cater for communication regarding the children but only expose yourself once a week to potential hoovers. When the narcissist realises this is being done, see how the hoover attempts diminish. If you need a mechanism for emergency communication, tell the narcissist to contact a third party who will then contact you. Use this gate keeper.
3. Keeping our telephone number
You may say that you will not use it and therefore think that this is no contact, but once again, this is not no contact. With our number sat in your phone, even if you have changed the description to ‘Arsehole Number One’ , ‘Shit 4 Brains’ or ‘Narcopath’ you are creating problems :-
- You see the name and number and you are then reminding yourself of us and thus this is a form of Ever Presence ;
- You are leaving open a gateway. There will be an occasion when your emotional thinking surges and causes you to try to contact us. If our number if there you will use it and message us or ring us. If there is no number, you cannot call us.
Do not come up with the nonsense of ‘I have memorised the number so I will remember it anyway so what difference does it make if I keep the number in my phone?’ Bollocks. Your memory is fallible and over time if you have not used our number, you will eventually forget it altogether or at least get some numbers mixed up. If it is still in your directory, you will ring it.
Delete that number. Do it and do it immediately.
4. Talking to friends and family about us
You may think that because you are not engaging with us directly then this must mean no contact is in place. It is not in place if you continue to talk about us to your friends and your family. This is causing you to engage with us, albeit indirectly. All this does is result in :-
- You continuing to think about us with the consequential impact on your emotions;
- The continued feeding of the emotional infection which you should be purging, not feeding ;
- Allowing your emotional thinking to surge with the risk this may control you once again and you end up contacting us or succumbing to a direct hoover with all that follows from that
It is of course inevitable that you will discuss the situation with your family and friends especially when you do not understand what you are dealing with. However, once you realise you are dealing with a narcissist then there does not need to be any more discussion. If you are not sure whether the person is, do not discuss it with your family and friends, they invariably have no idea whether the person is or not, they have no expertise. Indeed, they may well be revelling in joining in the ‘narc hating’ sessions which are actually not helping you at all. Alternatively, they may well be sick of hearing you going on about him or her and want you to shut up, but tolerate it out of a sense of loyalty. If you are unsure, ask me and I will give it to you straight, one way or the other.
Once you know, you go.
No more debating it with your best friend. No more mulling it over with your football mates after the game in the pub. No more ‘ifs and buts’ discussions with your parents. This person is a narcissist and you are not to dedicate any time to discussing this person. If you have to discuss an arrangement concerning the narcissist because they are collecting the children from your parents, then that is allowable but keep it to that. You do not need to tell people what the narcissist did or said. All you are doing is repeating this person is a narcissist, you already know this, they already know this, so why keep going on about it?
You do it because your emotional thinking wants you to do so. It wants you poring over the latest misbehaviour because it craves the horrified gasps from your friends or looks of disapproval from your mother. You do not need these responses.
Do not talk about us. Explain to your friends you do not want the narcissist spoken about to you. If they try to do so, politely explain again that this person means nothing to you anymore and therefore there is no need to talk about them.
5. Watching what we are doing
You may make the intelligence agencies proud of your covert observation of us as you watch where we go, who we are with and what we are doing. You do not need to do this. Again, once you know what we are, get out and stay out. Yes, I understand it is so tempting to know what we are up to, are we seeing someone else, what does he or she look like, why are we going to these places but all you are doing is succumbing to your emotional thinking which is conning you into maintaining a link with us.
Your emotional thinking will tell you that it is permissible to engage in this behaviour because you are not contacting us directly, you are merely observing. These are examples of your emotional thinking conning you into thinking this stalking and observation is a good idea
- You are gathering evidence to tell other people what we are doing to confirm what you have told them previously (you do not need to – you know what we are, that is all you need, you do not have to persuade other people)
- You are gathering evidence for a court case (you do not have to do it – hire somebody to do this or if you cannot afford to do that, have a friend or family member do it – also question whether you really need to this evidence)
- You want to know who the narcissist is seeing so you can warn this person about us (part of your decent nature but unnecessary – you owe the new person no such obligation to warn then and in any event it is unlikely you will be believed because of the smearing we will have done against you)
- You just need to know for your own piece of mind (utter nonsense, you do not need to know at all)
Recognise these sleights of mind by your emotional thinking and act on them.
If you keep watching us, all you are doing is
- Creating harmful emotions that impact on you
- Keeping the emotional infection alive and growing
- Causing your emotional thinking to surge so you contact us directly
- Being spotted by us and suffering a hoover (benign or malign)
- Being spotted by us and being on the end of a restraining order or similar for harassment etc
These are just five examples of The Wrong No Contact. There are many more. Be alert for them, recognise them and understand why you are not implementing no contact. Stop letting your emotional thinking con you.
Once you know, you go.
Get out, stay out.
36 thoughts on “The Wrong No Contact”
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I doubt once our finances are finished because we just got divorced that he will Hoover me. He seems blissfully happy with his gf of 3 years (she’s married too). Yes he’s been seeing her unbeknownst to me for the last few years before I found out and threw him out. He was actually probably happy I did so he could do the things we couldn’t do because of our special needs son. I don’t understand his anger, spite and viciousness though. If he wanted out he got what he wanted, hence the doubt I have about him hoovering me.
and what happens when it is the narc that implements zero contact from 1 to 3 years after it is still gone as if I was afraid, blocked from everything, dead, I do not exist, I feel their hatred from here, even if I do not see it or let’s talk or anything, I feel his breath on my neck, he fears I know, it seems that she is the empathic and I the narcissist.
Maybe you served your purpose to her selfishness, or maybe she is just one of those people who moves on and never looks back.
Kiki
Some thoughts that came to mind after reading your posts.
You exposed him twice to his wife and she is still there? If that’s the case then that threat doesn’t seem to hold much weight. Also, remember that it may defy your logic but they do not operate under the same logic. If you are honest with yourself, is your emotional thinking just conning you into keeping his number in your contact list? As FYC has pointed out – you can block that number without it being in your contact list. Best just to stay vigilant and assume there may be a hoover rather than convince yourself there will not be one and then be caught unaware and react with emotional thinking. I understand your struggle but encourage you to nurture your logical thinking.
Thank YOU, HG. 🙂
Kiki
Not sure what you mean by that.
This was probably the most helpful practical and logical piece of advice I have read. I also disliked it the most, because it was all true! I have always maintained a deep platonic relationship with my ex’s…including having there subsequent significant others for dinner…while I have excellent boundaries, I have never been forced to “exorcise” an ex out of my life, I find it difficult…especially at first, there is still so much love in my heart from a person I shared my body & time with. I learn a lot about myself, and the person I shared time with, under normal circumstances, I remain single for a year, and it gives myself and my now insignificant others a chance to reflect, make amends and sometimes even make a lasting friendship….this is impossible with my ex-Narc. I can’t open up to him, because I have zero trust, & as we know zero acceptance of actions for a Narc will ever take place, therefore growth is impossible….any effort to keep even minor texting alive, is proving rather futile, and dangerous at the same time. I am either being data mined (it’s so obvious now that I know what I am looking for thanks to HG) or its benign boring & mundane lacking in any stimulation pleasantries (fake) I have not (will never) divulge the information I know about him….the only thing I now miss is the sex. But alas, eventually that will be solved when the time is right.
Any ideas how to shut the conversation down from almost free to completely text free?
Thoughts?
By the way I write late at night, sorry if it doesn’t make sense, it’s kind of stream of consciousness writing.
🙏🏽
“Any ideas how to shut the conversation down from almost free to completely text free?”
Well, if you want to feel a bit the “power” of administering a silent treatment, or to “ease into it”, do not answer anymore for a while. As long as you know what you’re dealing with, you should have no remorse about it. But, as you said, this is dangerous.
The clean and safe solution is to block completely. You must get there sooner or later anyway.
Actually, I guess you already know the answer, it’s in the text right above here… Find your courage and will, free yourself of guilt, and just do it. Once you know you did it, and you did it correctly, completely, you’ll immediately feel you did the right thing, and you’ll feel free and happy and in control of yourself again.
You don’t need to explain anything to anybody. No longer procrastinate. Do it.
This is so powerful. I have to admit I am guilty on many of these points and it is because I indulge my emotional thinking. I just don’t want to believe it some days. It’s so depressing.
What if you share children, esp a special needs child with him and he takes him every other week. How do you go no contact? I only speak to to him through text when absolutely necessary.
https://narcsite.com/how-to-co-parent-with-a-narcissist/
This will all boil down to one impersonal question, I promise. Bear with me:
Our emotional thinking can be as all-consuming as any other enemy. We are truth-seekers. And, just like the narcissists, we care what others think. When a narcissist (family member, supervisor, coworker, intimate partner, or friend) begins a smear campaign, we want so badly to prove our innocence.
Nonemotional responses work in our favor when answering to third parties who bother to ask about a situation. We are given an opportunity to deflect, and an unemotional response is difficult, but critical.
So, what then of the third parties who are quick to believe anything they are told? And repeat it?
Examples:
1. Gullible, gossipy business owner hires malign narc who has fun as puppetmaster, planting hurtful rumors amongst staff and watching them fly. He believes everything narc says. How to respond, when you don’t know what’s being said, but you feel the climate changing? You can see young coworkers suffering, some quitting, but there is no proof, only hearsay.
2. You change gyms to escape gym-owner-narc, who smears you to your friends at the gym?
3. You find out your “backup bootie” has been playing on your sympathies for years, so you “out” him to the wife you never knew he had until last night. He lieslieslieslieslies until she takes him back (of course!), then she focuses her revenge on you, and goes public with her vitriol in your small town.
How do you escape the third parties, without looking like a guilty, obsessive sycophant?
Read ‘Smeared’.
Becoming Observant, small town gossip is hard to escape. It’s like a group of junior high kids that never grew up.
Narcky WordPress is not allowing me to ‘like’ comments. Just bounces me out and back to the comment (on my ipad). I still can on my phone but seldom use my phone for the blog. I am logged into WordPress. If anyone knows how to fix this problem I would appreciate the direction.
NarcAngel, try to uninstall/install.
Amen. Workspaces are like small towns, too. In places with high employee turnover, a narc can merrily create drama for existing employees, and scapegoat ppl who leave, with little consequence.
This is a good article. I do have a question or two. If we actually remove their number from our contact list that will unblock the number making it possible for them to contact us at some future point. So to me, the lesser of two evils is the best one right? Keeping their number means you can keep it blocked.
Also, you mention that it is never over for tour kind. And that at some point they will contact us again. But with mine, I revealed that he was still involved with me and contacting me, to his wife. He knows that if he ever contacts me again, I can and will relay any messages from him, back to her, so that she will know. He desperately does not want this to happen, so I believe that I have solved the problem of future contact by way of past behavior exposure. Doesn’t that seem like it will keep him away from ever contacting me again? The fear that his wife would find out and throw him out?
No, it is but one factor amongst others and there are other factors which could override that one factor you refer to, so that a hoover occurs. Never fall into the trap of thinking that one factor puts you in the clear with regard to hoovers – there are often factors you know about but you do not know the strength of that factor and/or factors you just do not know about, which will impact on the HEC. It is best practice to impose a no contact regime which is robust and solid, rather than thinking ‘oh I have information that the narcissist will not want to come out, so I am safe from hoovers’ or ‘I massively wounded the narcissist so I am safe from hoovers’ . Invariably the strength of that sole factor is not as good as you think it is AND/OR there are additional factors which counteract it. Build and maintain the no contact regime.
As for the number, change your number. This is always preferable to retaining the existing number.
“AND/OR there are additional factors which counteract it.”
HG, what additional factors?
Fuel levels, fuel needs, residual benefits, ease of hoovering to name a few.
So, even after I exposed him twice to his wife, exposed him to family and friends, etc., and even though we are both mutually not in any contact it is possible that he would take the risk of me telling his wife by contacting me? That defies logic to me. Please explain further if you would
This is a detailed matter to explain to you for the purposes of providing the reasons and mindset of the narcissist and is best addressed through a consultation.
Kiki, you never know what type of manipulation is being used on another fuel source. In the situation with his wife there may come a time when contacting you and being exposed for doing it will create the fuel that he needs. You’ve already exposed him twice. Shes still there. Another exposure probably won’t damage him, it’ll just create fuel that is needed.
I don’t think that he is that daring haha, but thanks for your insight.
What makes you think that, since his wife already knows about you and has forgiven him once, she won’t forgive him again? You also don’t know what lies he might come up with when you send his wife the messages (e.g. “she’s making up these false messages, she wants to come between us”). He might convince her to block you. He might contact you from an anonymous phone number, so you have no proof it’s him.
There are many ways this could go wrong.
I also don’t have a solution for losing her number yet. I can’t change my number for practical reasons, and because she’ll be able to find it out again anyway, if she wants to. I just blocked her. I know HG does not approve…
You can block a number without it being in your contact list.
Hi Kiki
This is the other Kiki here .
you exposed him twice , so he contacted you after you exposed him the first time .
Therefore he is OK to contact you again .
Kiki
Thanks, Kiki, and hello.
I just think that he knows I’ll tell her if he does and he just got fired so he’s now dependent on her money, (she’s got family money and a healthy income to support him with) .
Like HG said it’s gonna be better for me if I have some very strong walls up emotionally, etc., in the rare event that he tries to talk to me someday.
Hi Kiki
I feel from reading your posts that you are still very heavily emotionally invested in this man.
Trust me I was in a relationship with a married man also.
The reason I am here is that.
First thing to accept and I know this bit is hard believe me but there really is NOTHING wrong in their marriage no matter what he said.
Secondly he is not leaving her ever ,
I know first hand these guys really tell a good story and we lap it up .Its all lies.
You see we are just fun , an ego boost for them.
imagine how huge an ego boost having a wifey at home and another woman on the side hanging onto him is.
Its really all about him and his ego not you.
You must accept that.
Secondly you need to try to stop thinking about his marriage ,his wife what you will do to him if he calls etc.
That is still investing even though its hidden under the many excuses we make.
Third . change your number or block him .
Do not engage in any way .
Let him and his wife off you deserve more than this half life.
He is not a knight in shining armour or the poor misunderstood man stuck in the ahem sexless marriage for the sake of the kids etc etc but a weak pathetic excuse of a man who preys on your vulnerablities.whilst having it all.
PS You will get over it and see that there are some very hot guys out there : )
Hugs Kiki
Kiki
100 likes.
Hi Kiki,
I’m not hanging on at all, and if you read my other posts you’ll see that I had a strategy to exit and I knew that the right time would come along, and it did.
He’s not happy in his marriage so you’re not correct, but I can understand if that was your experience
I’ve heard from his family members and friends that their marriage has been miserable for quite some time, prior to my relationship with him. So he is stuck with her. One point I will agree upon is that his marriage was good enough, for him to have stayed faithful. But we’re talking about a Narcissist here, and nothing is ever good enough for them. He constantly complained to me about how she treated him like a child more than an equal, that she was very overweight, that she had to wear a wig because she has lost her hair. He said just terrible things about her, that any good kind man would overlook for the greater good of the marriage. But again, we are talking about a bad man. A Narcissist.who feels entitled to what he wants regardless of the cost.
He is very beholden to her for money. I know that for a fact too so no, he wjkk never leave her. She is his cash cow.
With the loss of his job he can’t pretend that he’s gonna leave her anymore, either and she may have given him an ultimatum once he got fired. To end it with me, or she’d kick him to the curb. With the amount of money she has it’s a wonder that she hasn’t done that. But like we were, she is very emotionally dependent upon him, and with her low self esteem, she is always going to welcome being his primary source,, even if he cheats again, which I am sure that he will.
I don’t care what happens to him. I knew we’d never have a long term future together, but I decided to ride it out because I felt like I loved him and was willing to just enjoy what I had until it’s eventual ending.
Kiki,
I did the same as you (told his wife) and I also think that saved me from further hoovers, at least from direct ones. He did indirectly hoover for awhile after that, which makes me think that his wife might not have believed me/told him. But those might also have been a way for him to thumb his nose at me – haha – you didn’t win, kind of thing. Or they might have been his refusal to believe that it was over? I don’t know because I didn’t have any direct contact with him afterwards.
I kept his number for a time because I did not want to be the one to cut off contact and have him think that it mattered to me and I sure was not going to change my number. Luckily, he moved and changed his number, at which point I no longer had it. He might still have mine but he has not used it unless he is creeping my WhatsApp. I have a lot of contacts and don’t look through them, though I do know that the numbers of contacts changes without my doing anything. Maybe he connects, looks, and then deletes me? No idea.
I also have another open channel (email) but he hasn’t tried to contact me directly that way either. I can’t block his email anyway because my email client will not allow it and in any case, I have another public email address that he will always be able to find.
That said, it all seems to have worked (as did wounding him and confronting him before I told his wife) and it was certainly my way of getting closure and getting him out of my head. I think I am safe, but I also think HG and Mercy make good points because the behavior is pretty unpredictable without us knowing what else is going on. If you delete your narc’s number and he calls you, you won’t know who it is, so if it worries you, maybe delete it and don’t answer calls from people who are not in your contact list?
SMH I think that we may have solved the problem. Maybe others reading this will be able to have success implementing what we did .
I know that it’s over. Like forever gone. I threw the hand grenade into his cave, destroyed him a second time to his wife (who knows if he’s cheated more than just with me), and then I took off like a bat out of hell.
I got my money back that he owed me and I told him to never contact me again and he said the same thing to me after I contacted her. He said leave “us” alone. I had to chuckle a little at that one because he hated being affiliated with her at all, and hates being married to her but now that I dumped him I guess he has to cling to someone for protection from ego destruction.
I know that he won’t ever come back after what I both said and did.
Exposure blasts them out of the water because they think that they are invincible and they think that they can get away with everything because they are so much smarter than we are. Lol. Little did he know that I was saving evidence the whole time anticipating his cruel departure.
Basically, I just beat him. He thought that he was free and clear, but I had a secret weapon like a superhero haha
Kiki,
That’s funny! Great empath minds think alike!! I collected evidence over two years. I didn’t use any of it when I told IPPS. I just told her his m.o. anonymously. She said ‘that’s crazy!’ I said, ‘yep, he’s crazy. Look out for yourself.’ It was not the first time he had cheated on her but she put a lot of effort into a reconciliation and I think she refused to believe. I don’t really know and I don’t try to find out.
Before telling IPPS, I told MRN he was a psychopath and made him come over and delete our thousands of emails in front of me. He thought I did not know his home address but I did. When he stonewalled, I threatened to go to his house, and suddenly I had a definite day and time!
This was all four months post-escape, mind you, and it is then that I found this site. I had never been so furious as I was at the end of our alleged ‘friendship.’ So I pulled out all the stops. I did not do anything while we were together (I knew about IPPS around 8 months in) but I never ever forgave him for lying to me when we first met.
I have not truly been tested because he has not tried to contact me directly, but anyone in our situation should definitely consider these tactics! Really once the facade cracks, the rest is easy. It is all a house of cards and fuel is the weakness.