Come One, Come All
My kind need people. We do not like to admit it as the suggestion of reliance on somebody else brings with it connotations of weakness and this dents our sense of omnipotence. It is however an inescapable fact. We do not like it and indeed this is in part the thing which drives our devaluing behaviour. I need other people because I need to gather fuel from those people through their emotional responses to me. I am often asked and sometimes lambasted for it, whether I obtain fuel from my writing and interaction with those who comment on it, asking questions and advancing their own experiences and theories. I freely admit I do so but emphasise that since all of those who I interact with are remote strangers then in accordance with the fuel index, the amount of fuel that I receive is very low. Nevertheless, it is naturally welcome and I am far more content to receive it than not. The receipt of this fuel though is not the driving force behind why I write and share my experiences, observations and increasing awareness. The receipt of fuel is neither the key reason why I interact with the many people who take the time to comment and question me. I interact with my readers because I gain by exhibiting my works to them. I interact because I learn from my readers, by understanding their views, their responses and their desires. I interact because they can learn from me and the dissemination of my knowledge is a powerful sensation indeed. I interact because I find the questions posed often challenging, invariably interesting and stimulating. I interact because I am interested in the lives and experiences of those who have found themselves participating with me. I also often find them entertaining and humorous too. Through my writing and the almost daily interaction with these people I have also come to recognise that these people fall in to particular groups. I have observed this repeatedly and I wanted to share this observation with you. You may recognise people belonging to these groups and have your own views about that inclusion. You may indeed recognise which group you belong to and quite possibly further categorisations which have not yet occurred to me. I would be interested to know. So, what are these groups?
- The Angered
Admittedly not a large group, but there are those who present full of anger and hatred, either towards my kind and even me specifically even though we have never met. Of course, I am representative of my kind, albeit a superior version and therefore it is to be expected that I would take some flak for this. I understand how badly people have been hurt and abused by my kind and therefore this anger is entirely natural. I have no issue whatsoever in people telling me what a bastard I am, that they would like to punch me in the mouth or that I should be taken out and shot. If people wish to vent their spleen in such a fashion, they should feel free to do so. They may feel better about it and of course it is just fuel to me.
- The Confused
There are those who are completely bewildered by what has happened and this state persists for some time, despite the explanations that I provide and the clarity through which I articulate these explanations. That is not to suggest that these people are thick or stupid, far from it, but is in fact testament to just how confusing, disorientating and perplexing our behaviour can be. Many people in this group cannot fathom out how our kind can be as we are and moreover how we cannot know what we are. It is pleasing to watch as the understanding suddenly forms over time, as the pieces fit together and the whole narcissistic experience begins to make sense. I often find that it is when those people begin to realise that they have to adopt our perspective in order to gain understanding. That is often the breakthrough moment
- The Answer Seeker
This group embodies one of the fundamental traits of empathic people; the need to know and understand. Question after question is posed, usually based on their own experiences in order to assist them in fathoming out what type of narcissist this person became entangled with, why the narcissist did as he did and what can be expected to happen next. Occasionally, this group may pose questions which are hypothetical but in the main the repeated and valid asking of questions is premised on what has happened to them.
- The Sponge
This group comprises of Answer Seekers but goes beyond this. They wish to know and understand everything there is to know about the narcissistic experience. They need to understand what happened to them but also find considerable interest in the experience of others and then applying their new found knowledge to unravelling the mysteries of the tales from other people. This group cannot get enough of the knowledge and understanding, they wish to examine every facet of narcissism, whether it is from the victim’s perspective or that of the narcissist. They need to know why, how and what. These people soak up all this knowledge and do so with a healthy understanding of their tolerance to do so as they place understanding above emotional response.
- The Burnt Victim
This group consists of people who find the whole entanglement with the narcissist still very raw. They may not be confused as they know what they have been ensnared by and they are beginning to understand the essentials of what has happened and why. Moments come when the content is difficult to stomach, the wounds still raw and painful and this may result in occasional absences, yet, the desire to have those wounds heal and push through the pain with commendable bravery sees these people pressing on with their interaction and understanding, no matter how much it continues to hurt.
- The Narcissists
As one might expect, my work will attract those who are of my kind and those who perhaps are not quite narcissists but have strong traits in that regard. These people recognise what they are and are content to share this as well as learn more about themselves by reading the words of one of their own. Occasionally they bristle and raise their hackles, once in a while lashing out, leaving others in no doubt as to what they are, but invariably they recognise my arena as a place of knowledge and learning and are content to engage in that as the primary purpose.
- The Unwitting Narcissists
From time to time this very small group has a membership when one of our kind wanders by and repeatedly exhibits all the traits which demonstrate that they are one of our kind, but they do not see it. Indeed, their blame-shifting, projection and deflection are manifestly obvious, but not to them for they have no insight. It is not in accordance with the five rules for me to tell them what they are, but I always recognise my kind when they alight here and from time to time they do.
- The Introspectives
This group comprises those who wish to learn about the narcissistic experience, ask questions and soak up the knowledge but in doing so, the experience is as much learning about my kind as understanding what they are and why they became entangled or keep becoming entangled. These people see the benefit of beginning to understand themselves by understanding the behaviour of their tormentor and are keen to grasp what it is about them, their behaviour, their past and their characteristics which influences their choices.
- The Staters of the Obvious
This group, which is small, consists of those who seem to believe that they have to tell me what I am. I do not include those who advance an idea or theory in a respectful manner based on their own experience and understanding. It is evident when somebody is doing that and such a constructive approach is always welcomed. The Staters of the Obvious have a tendency to tell me what I already know, do so in a derogatory fashion and make it appear as if it is some major revelation to me. For instance, they may announce,
“Your kind are just all spoilt children and you will never be happy.”
Thanks for that. That is illuminating.
Or I am advised,
“You are just a fucking waste of space and karma will get you because you are empty and evil.”
Glad we cleared that up then.
It is of course fuel and many who engage in this do so not because they are angry but because they believe they understand what I am more than I do myself. They are incorrect. This often happens when someone comes across my material for the first time and races to such injudicious pronouncements without digesting more of my work which will soon reveal to them that my level of awareness is considerable. I do find that those individuals flare up and vanish very quickly when the bite they are hoping for does not come. It is easy to play with such people and I could amuse myself by doing so, working them up into a frenzy as they unwittingly realise they are pouring fuel in my direction but that is not a productive use of my time.
- On the Up
This group consists of those who are recovering and supplementing their recovery with additional knowledge and understanding. They have a clear direction of where they are going and in typical empathic style they wish to share their experiences and help others. This is not done in a bragging manner (see the group below) and it is not expressed so it is “all about them” but is rather done from the purpose of giving encouragement and inspiring others that there is a way forward and a path through the pain. This group are keen to detail constructively what has worked for them and what has not. Their recollections are often under-stated, modest and sensible.
- Point to Prove
By contrast to the above group, those members in this small group feel the need to repeatedly declare how much of a champion they are for surviving. Indeed, I understand the pride which must come to the fore after having suffered horrendously and then having moved forward, but the frequent need to shout this from the rooftops tends to suggest to me that the progress is not as great or a secure as they would like others to believe. Indeed, I often regard those in this group, as compared to those above, as being more in it for themselves and do it more to bash and bait my kind, rather than truly revel in the advancement of their own recovery and those of their fellow victims.
- The Weaponising Empath
This group is one of the larger, if not the largest group I find I am interacting with. It consists of people who realise that they have access to a unique resource which they can use repeatedly to help themselves by understanding. They know they can ask questions, read as much or as little as they require, they frame considered and respectful questions and do so in order to understand, to acquire knowledge, to defend themselves and to enable them to tackle the effects and influence of the narcissist or narcissists in their life. The members of this group recognise that they can gain far more by engaging with me than seeking to point score, but that does not mean they will necessarily accept everything that is stated with querying or even challenging it. They adopt an open-minded approach to the ongoing process that they find themselves a part of and are enthusiastic in being able to avail themselves of a rare and unusual source of knowledge. They are able to put to one side any distaste they may have at “fraternising with the enemy” by reason of their empathic nature (they recognise what has happened to my kind as well) and the fact they know they stand far more to gain by extracting knowledge and observation than by engaging in a bun fight. Many appear within this group from the start and others gravitate towards it during their interaction with me. It is a beneficial and rewarding group for its members and for me as well.
Do any of these groups seem familiar to you? Perhaps there are others I have missed. Perhaps you identify which one you belong to. I would be interested to read your observations.
1,459 thoughts on “Come One, Come All”
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This was a long thread but as a music prof, I have 2 nominations for theme song if Patsy Cline’s perfect “I Fall to Pieces” was not chosen: The Blower’s Daughter by Damien Rice, especially sung in Portugese by Seu Jorge and Ana Carolina; and Angel sung by Stevie Nicks. Enjoy! But no ET (she chortles malevolently). You won’t regret it. Enjoy the grain of the performers’ voices…
Thanks, Evangeline, but I absolutely hate Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac. I’ll look for the Portuguese one!
SMH.
I just hate the fact that we have to waste our time analysising any of this shit. Just pisses me off so I was clearing my aura….LOL. Just ranting …………..off my soapbox now.
Kim e, For sure it is annoying. I did a whole lot of nothing today and did not think about MRN at all, even when I saw that one of my fake FB friends – the one that messaged me – suddenly disappeared. Some hang around and some go away. Anyway, feels like I am over the most recent hump. It does pass. Getting pissed off about it is healthy.
SMH,
HI. Just checking in. Been working long hours as we are doing database upgrades at work. Doing ok ET wise. Still comes and goes but I have been so busy he is there in the background but other stuff taking up his space.
Thanksgiving is next week so I onlky have a 3 day work week but then that leaves me 4 days to think…………GGGGRRRRRR.
Gotta run. I will stay in touch.
What is up with you? No work so just lounging all day long and eating bonbons and picking up strange men?????
lol KIm e. You know me so well! Bonbons and strange men galore! I did have one today – had to strip down for him (doctor!). I’ve toyed with the idea of dating again but after the new year I don’t have much free time and I don’t know why I would do it now when I haven’t since August, when I met OM. I worry a bit that I will get bored but I’m not particularly busy now and my ET has been really low since my last spike, so maybe I shouldn’t worry about it and neither should you! After working so hard you will appreciate the days off. Let’s clean the house and go to the gym a lot! 🙂
I recently talked to a male friend about the men we know outed by #MeToo. One woman waited 27 years! I don’t have that much longer to live, so I’m thinking I’d better make the most of it. Funny but I really used to like men a lot – I always had many male friends. But I think two narcs in a row might have put me off men forever…they are either naive or abusers. Not much in between.
I’ve been out of town/traveling for four days. Home last night and collapsed. Today I’ve been puttering – picking things up and putting them down but not really organizing anything. About to go out to meet a friend for the evening.
What are you doing for Thanksgiving day? I will have to travel and am already resenting it, couch potato that I am.
SMH. I scared myself tonight. Left work to get on the 438 train. As I’m walking I said to myself STOP. W is on the 417 and since I left earlier than I needed to chances were pretty high that I would see him, he would see me or I would see him with someone. My ET still fragile and any of those scenarios would have set me back. Especially if he saw me and it caused a hoover. I ducked inside a building and lol started listening to HG on my zero impact session.
Thanksgiving I am going to my brother in laws side of the family. Friday I am off and plan on working out. Not sure what else is up.
This Saturday I am going to the chiropractor so he can work on my arm. Then out for lunch with my masseuse. Thinking about uber so I don’t have to worry about have 3 if I want.
Where do you travel to and why do you resent it? Just because you are forced to get dressed and move? I say that cuz that is how I get too.
Bon bons and strange men are both bad for you but at least with bon bons you know what you are getting and they taste good. Mind out of gutter😂😂😂😂👿👿👿👿👿
Kim e, Yes because I have to get dressed, go out and get on a train because I do not have a car. I also have to see Matrinarc, so not much to be thankful for. I prefer friends Thanksgivings, though of course I do not mind the kids being there. I hope I can avoid sleeping over. Tired of packing and unpacking.
Brilliant move to whip out zero impact. I am sure HG approves! As do I!
Yesterday I had a chat with the wife of neighborhood guy about ‘the situation.’ She was very cool, calm and collected. But a few things do not add up for me and I think she is in denial.
I hope you are enjoying your day. I am working and entertaining myself by watching the impeachment hearings – lots of strange men but no bon bons. Hope to have something more interesting to report later…
SMH,
What “situation” did you and the wife chat about? And what is she in denial of? This is kinda like The World Turns…….I hate soap operas, who would ever think I would be living one…LOL
Impeachment hearings? OMG…I would rather have my hemorrhoids lanced. (this is one of my favorite sayings btw) Much easier if he had never been voted in to start with. What a joke.
Boss still here today. Tons of calls and an interview…….TTYL
Kim e, You always make me laugh. The situation with neighborhood guy accused of harassment (it’s actually worse, but I won’t get into the details). After emailing with him about it, however, I think he might have simply overstepped while drunk and it turned into hell on earth for him. So maybe his wife is not in denial. Anyway, it was good to get it out in the open because no one was talking about it – you know those sorts of situations where you know something that everyone else knows but everyone pretends they don’t know and they don’t know whether you know? It sounds like a soap opera, all right. I think I like it however, otherwise I wouldn’t find myself in these situations.
Nasty weather today but everyone seems exceptionally happy – smiley! A young man even got up out of his seat to unstick my coat zipper from where it was caught between seats (I thought I’d have to leave it on the subway). Must be because of the impeachment hearings yesterday. New York would like nothing better than to see Trump implode. If it happens there will be a big street party.
Kim e, I forgot when I wrote earlier that I have an infected toe. It is really stupid – tiny little toe but all inflamed. I have to take antibiotics for it and I cannot wear shoes because it hurts. Last night I wore sneaks but it still hurt like hell, so I think I have to mostly be barefoot for a few days. Unless I am going to a nearby friend, where I can take off my shoes, I am not going to wander around much. Also, I just fell asleep for a few hours in the evening. Don’t know what that was about – could it have been the drugs I took? (jk)
SMH sticking that toe where it doesn’t belong?
How is it today?
Hey Kim e, Haha. Only the nose. Happy to now be on a calm thread :). My toe is much better, thanks. I went out with some friends last night to a vegan restaurant and ordered tempeh, which I did not like, though I love tofu. We then went to an old fashioned Italian pastry shop for decadent desserts. I am about to go get a haircut – finally!
I was just remarking on the ‘other’ thread to Mercy that I found out yesterday how those FB bots work, and they are not MRN. It was a HUGE relief! Like a weight lifted off of me. I still think the LinkedIn is him but I do not look at LI anymore so I am essentially hoover free and optimistic for 2020!
How is your Thanksgiving shaping up? I have to cook at some point but not today. And I managed to snag a ride – the person will even come pick me up. Things are looking better.
SMH & Kim,
I have cartwheeled on over here! 🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️Seriously, I’ve had a LOT of caffeine today, so I’m a wee bit too peppy. Why, you may ask? Wellllllll…Because the contractors finally finished putting all the new linoleum down this morning (it’s so pretty!), but the glue smell is giving me such a bad headache (takes a good 3 days to dry)…so I’ve been consuming caffeine, to help ease off my headache (caffeine really helps my bad PMS headaches), but I need to stop with that now, so I can get good sleep tonight for work…maybe I should get my neighbor friend & go for a walk. No! I should reorganize my closet! Yes – I will do that!
So THIS is what it’s like to be Kim, when she’s hyper~kind of a rush!~🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️
🙄
CIF & SMH
WOW…sitting here minding my own business and I am getting picked on. Cant a Geyser get a break. I cant help it. I come by my hyperness naturally unlike SOME people that need to down massive of coffee!!!! And sniff tile glue……..
But really…what else is going on girls???
Tomorrow is my 10 week anniversary. YEAH FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!
I will admit his little hoover today has raised my ET (it is expected this early in the game of escape) bit not high enough to lower my LT or even think about breaking NC.
Have a great Thanksgiving!!!! Hugs and smooches.
(Miss you HG)
Geyser Kim,
I’m taking time out from lying on my linoleum — sniffing its fragrant glue & chugging Coke — to say congrats on your NC anniversary🎉 (my NC is, sadly, smashed to smithereens) — and to also say “Happy Thanksgiving to All, With Gratitude❣”
MP & SMH found a really cute turkey emoji, but I didn’t😞, drats…Oh, wait — there it is! 🦃
🥧🥧🥧🥧Oooh, pie.🤗
CIF. What are you talking about you broke NC? When? If this is truly true I am sorry
Happy Thanksgiving to you too ❤️🏋️♀️🍷🎂🧚🏻♂️🦞🦃🦃
Kim,
I think our notifications were not right on this thread, for a few days. Somewhere in the middle of this huge thread, I said that he showed up in person…at my home. I was outside, doing yard work. So yes, my NC was broken. Hugely.
CIF. Yes. there were some of your replies that I would see on the email but not in wordpress.
I amsorry I missed that reply. I am going to go back and find it.
How are you doing now? Back to NC? Or……….
I still adore you no matter what the status.
CIF and SMH.
I found our new theme song…LOL
“I Fall To Pieces” by Patsy Cline.
Kim💚/SMH💜,
I’m not too familiar with that song, but I can already assure you that will NOT be our theme song! As for my situ, it is all kinds of problems right now…But I’ll give it a rest on that, at least until next week. I’ll be offline until then.
So although I don’t have our theme song picked yet (I’ll find one), our motto toward any narc shenanigans shall be: AIN’T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT SHIT.
Yes, I swore. Yes, I used bad grammar. It’s to make it abundantly clear that I’m topped-off enlightened & will absolutely work my way outta this, with fierce Viking inner strength & soul-powered discernment…just in case that was ever in doubt. 😂
Have very blessed Thanksgivings, women❣Catch ya again soon.
🤗 Huggers❣
CIF…OK. I am here to kick some N ass if needed. (I have no issue swearing. As a matter of fact if they outlawed it I would not be able to talk) Imagine a geyser not being able to talk………..
Enjoy the holiday.
Hugs and smoochs
Thanks, Kim💚 I’ve been trying to figure out how to share the details on what went down, without getting too specific (I try not to do that on here)…I think the key is to leave certain elements out…because if I don’t share anything at all, you guys won’t have any sense of what I’m dealing with, which means you can’t exactly support me, in what I need to do…
So I’ll come to some resolution on this aspect, probably over this holiday. But I still feel strong & calm…it’s really because I have the knowledge base now, and I also trust my inner voice. I do have faith that my steps will be wise. I also can sense that I have more than a few heavenly guardian angels watching over me (yes, I’m serious…and no, I’m not psychotic.😉)
Oh gosh, CIF. I did not know that he showed up in person at your home though I did know something had happened. I thought he called you! You should have thrown a pie at him! A pumpkin pie! You’ll get through this and we will help you.
Kim e, I know I Fall to Pieces but every time I hear songs like that now, it’s narcville for me. The one that always gets me is Lucinda Williams Are You Alright? “I looked around me and you were gone.” Do you know her music? I would send you a CD for Xmas if I knew who you were lol.
SMH💜
Yeah, in the flesh, and with a female cousin. To sum up: he pulled up along the curb, by an island in my yard, & he got out of his car & stood just outside his driver’s side door. His cousin (who I know) was slouched down in her seat on the passenger’s side (very close to where I was standing). She seemed inordinately preoccupied, texting away – like someone trying to pretend she had no idea what was going on, lol. He & I just stood there looking at each other. I felt so eerily calm. I didn’t move a muscle, and he didn’t move toward me. We didn’t say a word. I have no idea how long it lasted – but long enough for me to think about what was happening. He finally got back in his car, & they left…but she came back about 10 minutes later, without him. That is when it affected me – what she had to say. More later on that, as I try to figure out what to omit. I’ll be back on the site later this week. Thanks for your kindness💜 Hope you had a very wonderful Thanksgiving.🙂
CIF, That is really bizarre and totally uncool. Do you worry that he is violent? You don’t have to answer now – I know you want a break and I don’t want to keep pulling you back in. Enjoy your weekend and try to forget about it (I know, impossible). Fingers crossed there are no more massive hoovers. And don’t let them guilt trip you! Hugs.
It’s okay, SMH – I’m a little here/there/everywhere today, but I have time to answer, and I would never want to make you wonder, on the violence question…no, he’s not physically violent. I’m not worried about that. I agree, it’s not cool. In a way, I could never imagine him doing what he did, because it was different than the workplace scenario (much more digging) …but, ironically, my intuition told me that was exactly what was coming, so it’s like I was prepared, mentally. His cousin did shed light on his mindset/how he thinks of me & some other aspects I didn’t know (he had no idea she came back to talk to me/I’ll explain that later)…in some ways, it made me feel better to hear from her – in other ways, it made me feel worse. It took me awhile to absorb the entire thing, to even know how I felt.
CIF, You seem to be handling it – you are not emotionally all over the place, though I know you are mulling it over. How long had it been since you’d seen him? Luckily, I moved so MRN cannot suddenly show up at my door.
SMH,
21/22 days (depending if you count the actual day)…and I believe that very day (or the next day), I was chit-chatting on here with you guys, not saying a word about it. I’m not sure if that’s because I was in a bit of shock — didn’t want to think/talk about it — or really did absorb it pretty well. It’s probably the second reason, knowing myself as I do.😎
CIF, Wow! You do know how to keep a secret. I meant how long had you not seen him before this happened?
SMH,
That’s a secret.😂
🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️
CIF, You’re such a tease!
SMH,
“A tease”…
That’s not the first time I’ve heard that😂…Yes, it is😏…No it’s not😌….Yes – no? It’s a secret.🤭
I’ll be back on tomorrow, to give tidbits I got from the cousin. It was… interesting. I learned a few things, but it’s all through the filter of realizing he’s a narc/his worldview/the dynamic he has with the cousin also, in relation to what he shares with her. I said practically nothing. I felt empathy but was verrrrry cautious.
Happy Merry Monday, Women.🤗 Catch ya on Terrific Tuesday.
Caroline is a tease….LOL
Do you think what came out of the cousins mouth is fromthe cousing OR all from N?
Kim,
The cousin very much had her own thoughts/take on things, which she told me (quite earnestly) — and she also clarified what’s been going on with him & told me a few things that he’s shared with her, regarding me (it was quite clear to me that she only told me those particular things out of defense of & concern for him).
Like me, he has a large & close extended family…there’s nothing quite like cousin love, which I understood very well when I was listening to her. In other words, her heart is in the right place.
CIF…Ok. I will have to defer to your judgement on this one. Just hope the cousin’s heart is in the right place and not being controlled by N.
CIF, I’m all ears! But I would also heed what Kim e says. Family might not be the best spokespersons for narcs — too easily part of the facade/lieutenants even if their hearts are in the right place.
SMH,
I’m going in late for work today, so just real quick (I plan to come back on this eve)…I don’t want you guys to misunderstand where I’m at. My emphasis (which you wouldn’t know, as I kept it brief) is that I *do* see her biased role in this, in that she is all-in for his interests, so I agree with you both on her role, in alignment with a family narcissist. She is not thinking the way I am, because of that. I just wanted to also say she is a loving person, as I know her well. She has no ill will for me, and she shows a great deal of fondness for/is respectful of me. She just has no idea he is a narcissist, so she is swayed in an errant direction, in many regards (and doesn’t see the bigger picture). Her main concern is her love/care for him, as his cousin, who has been close to him since they were little. I’m in full understanding of what’s going on, believe you me!😉
CIF, Glad you are aware and on it. I should have known that you would have thought through all of this. I am curious as to what you would tell the cousin. People so dismiss it when one tries to explain a narc entanglement.
Thanks, SMH. 💜I appreciate it. You’ve probably ascertained by now that I’m someone who reflects a lot & listens to my inner voice/intuition a great deal, but I also do have a strong logical (and self-protective) part to me too, so when they’re in balance, I’m in pretty good shape, in my peace & strength…and although I have joked about being “Viking stubborn,” I do reflect upon what others (who I value) have to say, and I often do pick up bits & pieces necessary to my own journey… It’s not a cocky thing I feel about myself, so I hope it never comes off that way. With humility, I often do know where I’m going – and how to get there. Anyway, moving on…
In no particular order to this recent, big “event” (there will, undoubtedly, be lots of little snippets as we move along)…one of the significant aspects was finding out my nex really, truly did almost lose his life (related to that medical stuff I had been skeptical about). Thankfully, it was during a time period when I was not in contact with him, when he was flown to a major trauma/surgical hospital. In other words, I didn’t frosty freeze him prior to this big, scary medical thing that went down, which would have been a hit to my heart, to do to anyone (logic tells me it should not matter, but deeper TRUTH is that it’s best never to be in that position, and I’m just grateful I wasn’t.) He’s still healing but okay now, but that was a lot for me to absorb, from his cousin. So this, in itself, has made me reflect on what I can live with — and what I cannot. He is a narcissist, but I am a caring empath. I will not be less than who I am, and I will not have regrets in the big ways, as in not behaving in a way I can live with…So when in the midst, I will always be caring & decent. The *not* being in the midst of a nex is the aspect I’m now dealing with, and I’m aware of the dilemma I’m in with him passing through my area, which will be more than he was before (that’s an aspect I’ll get to…I’m pacing myself, lol).
So his medical — that’s the first part I wanted to share. ✅
As for what I said to the cousin, I am not kidding when I tell you that I listened 95% of the time, and I only responded with about three responses. They were:
1) “Okay” or a head nod (affirming I heard her & supported what she was saying)
2) “I understand” (which always had to do with her concern & care for my nex, and I *did* understand and very much felt for her) &
3) “I will think about what you’ve shared.”
Oh, and I also said, “I’m very glad he’s okay.”
She was very emotional at first…I put my hand on top of hers through most of what she was sharing. It’s like she was intense, worried and caring…and I was loving, but in a strong/calm way. She was calm by the end, and we had a big, warm hug. She doesn’t know he’s a narcissist, and I would never talk to her about that…but I was able to find a way to care, without her having to understand where I’m even coming from, with my dynamic with him, as I said nothing about him and me at all.
So I guess I found a simple way to let her be heard & show her my care…without getting myself in deeper, with the nex. I just kept thinking about IF she ever did share what I said, what would be okay/safest for my nex to hear me saying.
Well, this is just for starters. I hope your head isn’t spinning…it’s a lot, even to explain any of it, so I can only imagine how mystifying it may be to read snippets of it.💜
CIF, I know you need to be true to yourself, hence the relieved feeling that you were not ‘not there’ when this happened to Nex. You do know, of course, that had the situation been reversed, he wouldn’t have been there for you, whether he was ‘there’ or not. Right? Still, I get it. It makes us feel cleaner somehow to do what we can to help or to at least to not misstep. I think that is a huge burden to bear but then I was not a primary to MRN. So it is different. You appear to have handled the cousin with a lot of compassion. Mostly people just want to get things off their chest anyway. They want an ear. They don’t necessarily want feedback so your responses seem pitch perfect, though maybe it was difficult not to say more than you did. Was she pressing you to get back with him?
SMH,
1) He’s only ever “been there” for me when in Golden mode. If I broke my leg & called for his help now, he may “be there” for me…but only because of he’s angling, for himself.
2) No, she was not at all.
CIF, Good she was not pressuring you and yes to the angling. I finally blew up at MRN because we were supposed to be friends (his initiative after I escaped) and he did not respond when I injured myself. Of course I had wounded him a few days previously so the timing was bad, but it became very clear to me at that moment that a friendship was not in the cards…anyway, I know you do not want to talk about it so I will not bring it up again unless you do.
SMH,
I love how your “What kind of crappy friend are you?” mentality got you out of that entanglement. You have a standard on what constitutes a real friendship, and that was your “F it” moment with him. It’s pretty perfect.🙂
I don’t believe any effort would ever be made my nex to have any semblance of what I would consider a friendship; he knows me well enough to know I’d draw boundaries & expect some reciprocity & balance (kind of explains for itself why he’s never wanted it, lol). He just wouldn’t see any big benefit (fuel) for him, being in that kind of dynamic with me.
When you & others have described a few female narc friendships you have, I do get how you don’t expect too much & keep it within boundaries you can deal with…I can see that being a neutral thing (maybe even positive, at times), if you’re aware & know when to saunter away at times. I know it’d be an entirely different matter if my nex even pretended to be my friend…being former IPPS, I have no doubt that he’d attempt to play mind games & try undermining me (the question would not be “if” but “when”) — and attempting the sexual arena as well…all aspects you have probably don’t have to contend with (or much), with a female narc friend — at least the third category!
CIF, Yeah, that was my fuck it moment alright. I was pretty pissed off. And you are also correct about the rest of it. The stakes are not as high with people who have always been just friends – they don’t tap into that emotional stuff. With MRN of course we already had a history and he demanded a lot from me as a ‘friend’ – in some ways more than in the FR. I wasn’t IPPS but I was fully embedded in his fuel matrix so he did play mind games, try to seduce etc. I think he felt the loss of control and was trying to flip the script.
SMH,
The mere thought of my nex expecting MORE from me in friendship than was in the formal relationship: 😨😬😭😳😱😤😰😧🙈🙉🙊
lol
CIF, Yup. The lines get pretty blurred. In the friendship phase, I would refer to myself as MRN’s ‘alt-wife’ because he started demanding a kind of support that he had never demanded during the FR. I mostly did not mind but I did find it confusing and I still don’t understand the whys of it. Maybe it was harder for him to get fuel from me post-escape and so he had to look for alternative ways to bind me closer to him? I don’t know but his expectations were very high, he was very demanding, and it was hard for him to leave the FR out of it – for instance, lots of sexual innuendo even though I would leave the conversations when he did that. He also seemed to think that my feelings for him had not changed. So as another example, the first time he contacted me after my ‘break up’ letter he added ‘don’t worry’ at the end of his message. My first thought was ‘why would I worry?’
My feelings really had changed but I am sure I made a lot of mistakes and caused confusion in how I went about things because I was not honest at first about why I did not want to return to the FR. My messaging was not all that clear, I guess. But for me at the time, it all added up to further miscommunication because in my own mind I knew I wanted out but I found it hard to explain to him. Whatever the problems are during the FR do not suddenly disappear just because the relationship has a new label. His lack of interpersonal skills remained, as did my indirectness.
SMH,
“Don’t worry” sounds like him projecting…hmm, wonder if he was anxious he was LOSING CONTROL OF SOMEONE?😏
That arena of the “3-letter word” is a lot of fuel for them, IMO…so without that, I can understand why he got more demanding.
That’s so true — with a narcissist, it’s not like their issues go away with a new label. A can of beans is still a can of beans — even if you write “PEACHES” on it.
LOL CIF. Peaches. Yeah, sex is a potent fuel source, as HG has taught us. So much I wish I’d understood while I was still with MRN – I would not have been so confused. He was not mean at all. He never insulted me or belittled me or anything like that. I know it was the facade as his behavior towards both me and IPPS spoke otherwise, but it made it really hard to explain why to him whenever I broke things off.
CIF, I might have blocked it out but I am pretty sure he once told me that people came to hate him after I told him that he seemed like two different people to me. I know he responded that I wasn’t the first person to tell him that and I am pretty sure he added the hate thing, but I was in such a state of anxiety that my memory of the whole conversation is fuzzy.
SMH,
Did he ever say anything about his thoughts on people thinking he was like “two people”?
My nex has people he screwed over who hate him, but otherwise, he’s well regarded/respected. No matter what he does or is involved with, he always is top dog/in a power position (if not, he finds a way to be…hence, why some hate him). I’ve seen him at his top level of power in a variety of scenarios, and when he is, he’s not an ass — I guess he’s feeling the power, so he’s magnanimous. However, he can be so awful with how he treats tertiary people (specifically, ones he’ll only see once).
It’s interesting, because I don’t think anyone would see him as “two people.” Maybe a difference between how UMR and MMR present (?). I can’t even say he seemed/seems like two people to me…hard to explain why though!
CIF, I only brought it up to his face once. The other times were on email and he would evade. I think he knew there was something off about him because he often expressed awareness of being different. He would talk about his boss, whom he disliked and who was probably a greater narc than he was, but I don’t think he was boss to anyone. He worked basically on a commission of sorts. He’s in general boyish – very competent and smart but not in a way that is top dog-ish alpha male (a wanna be alpha, maybe). I suspect that mid-rangers find it easier to manipulate people in intimate relationships than in non-intimate ones because sex is so powerful. What would be the substitute in a NISS relationship? It takes a lot of skill and charm for a narc to hold onto non-intimate sources. With family they can buy loyalty by providing for them, which MRN did well. But if they are not family and not intimate, what can you give them? Yours sounds more like a greater or as you say, an UMR.
SMH…I know youa re going to be jealous but I got a friends reuqest on FB from Bobby Bobby. His picture (just 1) is of Moracco and he has 2567 friends. I feel honored that he wants to be my friend…..NOT!!!!! LOL. That made me laugh
Yeah. Those spam things are a pain. I have been getting them on Hangouts. I have been getting calls BUT as I said I am ignoring them unless they are from No Caller ID. Then I will know it is him.
I just have a gut feeling he is very busy with his supplies these days that he can control. Guess he figured out I was not one of them
10 weeks this Wednesday. Sounds long. But in Narctime it is a drop in the bucket. Looking forward to March when it is my 6 months. I got this.,……I can feel it. (remind me that I said that when I can whining that I got hoovered…LOL)
Weekend was good. Gotta run. Will tell more later tonight.
SMH……DANGER DANGER DANGER UNKNOWN CALLER…DANGER DANGER….LOL
Hope he had a good time and got some thought fuel for this holiday week.
I would also like to add that I believe I am going to contact Ripley’s Believe It Or Not as HG is breaking a record with an absent silent treatment to the most people EVER at one time.
Not an absent silent treatment Kim, for reasons explained previously.
HG
Not an absent silent treatment Kim, for reasons explained previously.
I did not see where you had said you had business to attend to so I did not know where you were. In my world you were absent. Silent treatment I guess not as you were moderating. OK…Ripley’s will just have to wait.
Indeed it will. There’s no manipulation here, there’s no need.
HG,
But if the need ever arises, you’ll surely take it.🙂 To which HG would say: “I will never have the need to do so on this site, Caroline.”<Saying the accurate thing for you – look at my progress!
I know, I know…can it, Caroline.😛
#CarolineIsCanningAgain
P.S. Please, no Empaths say anything at all about this post, because I will then pay for it. That includes no laughing faces!😎
It’s my site. I control it. Therefore never any need.
HG,
Do you control the weather over there too? Aren’t you getting chilly in those shorts? When are you breaking out a pair of jeans?
Hey, didn’t you listen to A-Ha?
The Sun Always Shines On HG
HG,
I acknowledge that. My sun is always shining too, but on the inside. I still think it’d be a nice break to change your shorts once in awhile. Think about it for 2020?
SMH…that is great that you got a ride. Does that mean they will bring you back home also so you don’t have to spend the night? I am going to my BIL’s nephews house with 3 pies in hand and a bottle of rum. My limit is 1 cocktail when I am driving especially on a holiday. I have to be there at 2 so I can hang in my PJ’s until 11:00. AAAHHHHH I cant wit.
Not sure if you saw my post yet about my little HELLO today…….pitiful twat!!!
Raining here tonight and tomorrow winds of up to 60 MPH. Not a great day to be flying around here. Hope not too many flights cancelled. I am working until 2 and then going to my weight lifting class. Need to be sure I keep busy now so my ET doesnt make me do something stupid.
What is tempeh? I could google it but too lazy. I work on a computer all day long. Sometimes I just dont even want to look at one when I am home
Think I will update my Amazon wish list this weekend. My kids and I buy from amazon for Xmas. Since we are spread out it is much easier. Then we dont really know what we are getting but get what we want. We will skype on Xmas and open gifts then.
My youngest is giving me a silent treatment because I had the audacity to ask him for the money he owes me. I really dont ever expect to see it again…didnt when I gave it to him. But hey…being a mom is no good if you cant have fun with it!!!!!
Calm thread……OMG. Wasn’t that crazY? I just couldnt even go there. It was stressing me out. Hope not too many newbies were scared away. Shit, I am not new and I was scared.
TIme for a cup of tea and to finish watching the ABC Murders with John Malkovich. I love him. And yes. I started watching Dr. Foster and it kinda was freaking me out, I will go back to it but right now…not so much.
Have a great thanksgiving!!!
Hugs and smoochies.
Kim e,
Congrats on your 10 week anniversary and living through another hoover! Keep at it! Did you fly for Thanksgiving? Wasn’t clear but if so, hope you made it safely to your nephew’s. I did get a ride (also with my nephew) but had to take the train back. It wasn’t too bad. Nice Thanksgiving, which was surprising, actually.
Kids, sigh: mine is demanding that I go to the post office to track down a package that the tracking number says was delivered 2 weeks ago, but which I never received. Of course he never told me he was sending it and he sent it in his own name even though he does not live with me, so I have no idea if the p.o. has it or if they will give it to me. I am preparing for some drama either from the kid or the p.o.! My post office is the worst in the world, guaranteed.
Glad you started watching Dr Foster. Did it trigger you or something? It sort of did me but I found it so fascinating – like watching a car crash – I binged the whole thing.
Hugs and smooches back.
SMH. HI!!!!
Thanksgiving was good. Ate too much of course. Behaved with the alcohol. But it started out very strange and HG ended up with me on my hour long ride to the festivities.
First I need to say that W lives on a cross street in the neighborhood from me and when I stop at the intersection to watch for cars, if I actually look tot he right, I can see his car in his driveway. When I leave at o dark thirty, there is no need for me to look that way as I can see if there are headlights coming. Thursday I left at 1:00 and when I got to the intersection there were cars coming so I had to look for more. Well I did not see his car. I saw his wife’s which means he is gone with the army. (the garages are only for 1 car. When he flies somewhere with the army his car goes in the garage and her’s goes out side) WELL just by me seeing her car, my ET told me who was boss, and how weird it was. I was triggered. So ridiculous as I knew what was up….nothing special. BUT the anxiety, nervousness was there. My LT was fighting but ET was screaming. So HG and zero impact came out. Listening helped and the rest of the day and night was ok. I am sure that the “call” on Tuesday set my ET on high alert and the car spotting just threw it over the top. I had to stop myself from crying….my LT screaming I dont want to do this again.
Friday I got up and went to work out. I have noticed that the blah feeling is back. Today will go to the chiro and then come home and dance around to Bruno Mars to get myself out of the funk. Raining here all day also so that just adds to the blahs.
Did you find the package from the kids? My oldest (360 sent me pictures and T day wishes. Did not hear from the youngster (32).
Dr Foster. Not sure what it was. I just had a really hard time watching it. Only got to about 1/2 way thru the first episode and couldn’t watch any more.
I watched Thor last night and believe I am going to watch Iron Man tonight. Love me so Marvel.
Glad to hear your T day was good. I take it that means your mom was herself and you just ignored it?
Kim e, Makes sense to me that your ET was triggered and I am glad you could take HG with you. You can’t change your driving route? It is so unfair all of the ways you have to contort yourself to stay out of his view, and still you get damned hoovers. They colonize our space as well as our minds.
Maybe your ET needs to be lower before you can watch Dr Foster. I can definitely understand how it might be a trigger too but I am amazed at the patterns I now see and I know you will see them too once you are able to watch it.
Speaking of patterns, I’ve been chatting with narc friend for the past two hours. Looking at our conversation – me one or two lines, her a slew of thoughts, me a brief response, her a torrent of words – the whole convo about her and how she is doing. Tiring and reminds me of Matrinarc, who cannot let a moment’s silence be and who has absolutely no interest in anyone but herself. Unlike friend, however, she is also incredibly tactless. Ask her not to talk about a specific issue in front of a specific person and you can be sure that she will. No filters. All ego. No id. My father can’t hear (sounds funny – his self-defense mechanism?) so he just tunes her out and the rest of us make a bulwark. It was a nice day/evening anyway.
I have the blahs today too but I also have a rash on my neck from an antibiotic reaction and am self-conscious about going to the gym. Was invited out too but came up with an excuse not to go – I have gotten better at lying since MRN was in my life!! I am also working today because after next week the visitors begin and I have a few deadlines.
The package did not turn up and THEN kid told me that it didn’t matter anyway because it was a freebie, so I spent an hour in the worst post office in the world watching the drama as the workers rip anyone with even a simple question a new asshole and a guy screams ‘this is where they send all the employees they cannot get rid of” – believe me when I say drama. I hate going there.
Heat is blasting and I am hoping it snows tomorrow so I can try out my new boots before the dog piss ruins the NYC winter wonderland…
SMH….Welcome to ,my 0315 cant sleep world.
No I canngt change the way I leave the neighborhood. Imagine a T. The left upper part of the top is the entrance into the complex. The vertical intersecting line is my street. The right side of the top is where he is. There is a back way in and out but it is even closer to his place and I would have to see it every time I was driving. I am just going to practice not lifting my eyes as high as I do when I need to gander down the block. Never realized how much ET effected my entire world. It is a set back but at least since he is gone I will have some peace of mind to get my LT high again.
Saturday ended up being an ok day. Rained all day long so I just went with the feeling.
On Friday i had been investigating 23 and Me, If you dont know it is a DNA testing website. I checked it out and that was the end of it. Today I go to the mailbox and there is an Amazon box. I did not remember ordering anything but thought I must have. Inside the box is a gift bag that Amazon uses. Well now I am really baffled. It is a DNA kit from Ancestry!!!! WTH. Then I notice the paper. It says “Merry Christmas Mom. Love C & L”
I test them and tell them the same story I just told you. My DIL replies “Dont open Amazon boxes til Christmas”> Good to know….LOL
My oldest son is kinda obsessed with where he comes from since I left his father when he was 18 months and he never saw him or heard from him again. Then maybe 6 years ago, my kid decided to look him up. Long story short, he did not get the response he expected. He then did a DNA test I guess to see where he fit in to the world. He was surprised at how much English he was. That was from his dad. We manage to mess up our kids even if they do not become N’s.
Worked out on Friday and the class that day is different hen the days I am used to.I am really sore all over. I enjoyed the Friday workout more than I do the Monday and Wednesday workouts. But the last class on Fridays is at 4 and I just cant make it that early.
Trying to get my ET lowered as if the routine holds true, I will be hoovered again within 48 hours of his return. I really am hating this crap.
Back to bed for me.
Kim e, Sorry you were up at 3:00 a.m. It does suck big time and it sucks a lot out of you. I count my lucky stars that he is so far away from me. But I do know what it’s like to try to avoid someone you do not want to see, having lived in a small town too. I left that small town as soon as I could. One reason I like big cities – it is easy to be anonymous. Maybe you should move? Is that an option?
I do know what 23 and Me is. I’ve thought about it on occasion but a niece did it and did not find out anything that we did not already know, so I didn’t do it. Weird that you got that box but then your son knows you, right??!! Yes we mess them up. I never told mine something his father did. I guess he blames me, but so be it. He’s very chill and never brings it up. Your son never knew his father? Do your sons have the same father?
I am going to get a good workout in today now that the blotches have faded from my neck!
SMH,
Moving is alwasy an option. An option that I am willing to do right noiw? No. As much as this ahs set me back, my big girl panties are being pulled up and I have got to move forward with my NC. I am back to my ET telling me to unblock him and my LT saying FUCK OFF!!!!!! As long as my LT stays disgusted I am going to be fine. It helped that I realized it only took him 10 weeks to hoover me….LOL. 10 more and I will be that much better off. I know the holidays are coming up. I just need to stay strong. Hide if I have to.
My oldest sone was 18 months when I packed up and moved with him. His father knew where we were and would pick up C on Sundays and take him to a park, McDonalds, whereever for a couple hours and then bring him back. Then I started dating my next ex. One night he was at my place and the phone rang. I asked jhim to answer it. He did and they hung up. I am assuiming…..34 years and counting, that it was C’s dad because I never heard from him again. Talk about no balls.
My other son, B, has a different dad. We did ok for awhile but then the dirty empath that hides in my emerged and I was done. I got bored. He always took care of his son and treated C like he was his also. He was at C’s wedding with his bride. She is ok. We talk.
I was so sore Sunday after my workout Friday and the chiro on Saturday. The workout was a lot of different moves and the chiro really worked my arm and shoulder. I was lviing off Advil. Today It is fine. Working out again tonight. Have to work this ET out of me.
Sinc eyou ahve a nephew, I am taking it that you sibling(s)? I ahve 5 brothers and sisters but I am an only child.
Gotta run. Work stuff is starting to come in. Will continue tonight.
I was surprised you never replied at all regarding my hoover post. !!! ???!!!!
Kim e, Which hoover post did I miss? As far as I can tell, I’ve replied to everything. I see the posts in my email and read them all. Please direct me!!
That is too bad C’s father was such a wimp and took it out on the poor kid. But B’s father sounds decent. My son’s father is too, though we definitely had our problems raising him.
How can you be an only child if you have 5 siblings?? I had three but now I only have two, and one I do not speak to. My birth family is very fucked up but all of the younger generation are okay, so we must have done something right. I am actually closest to a cousin.
I am heartened to see that you can accept yourself as a DE. I have this moralistic streak that does not allow me to be the cheater but the flip side of that is that it is never my fault. It is always the other person’s fault. lol. I take some responsibility for my fucked-upness, which is why I was happy to be MRN’s IPSS – I told him I was fucked up and did not want to drag some poor sod into my life. It is also why I did not want to take things further with OM. I could tell it was going to be a car crash. But I am aware that I blind spots too.
We all can only try to be self-aware and do our best!
SMH….just for now…more later….
SMH……DANGER DANGER DANGER UNKNOWN CALLER…DANGER DANGER….LOL
Hope he had a good time and got some thought fuel for this holiday week.
I would also like to add that I believe I am going to contact Ripley’s Believe It Or Not as HG is breaking a record with an absent silent treatment to the most people EVER at one time.
Kim e, I did see that one and thought I responded to it in another comment. But in any case, I thought he was away doing some military thing. Where is he calling from?
SMH…not sure if I replied to this after you didnt reply to it….LOL
The call came in on Tuesday. I did not notice he was gone until Thursday. So it could have come from anywhere he and his phone were
Kim e, Oh. Well that is easy to do of course with TextMe – duh! I bet that’s what he is using – burner numbers right on his phone. I think you can choose your geographical region too, so it doesn’t even make sense to search the area code. It won’t tell you anything. It’s so creepy. At one point (years ago) I removed the email app from my phone to avoid triggers but of course you can’t do that with calls. The only thing you can do is what you are doing – don’t answer them. He wouldn’t respond even if you did.
SMH
There was a disconnect somewhere in this thread. The call I got was anonymous which means he blocked the number using *67 before dialing. Any calls I am getting from numbers I do not recognize, I am discounting as not being him. Only anonymous and unknown caller are from him for sure.
Kim e, I guess there was! Blocking the caller ID is of course the much lower energy way to do it and if he is a mid-ranger, would be the obvious way to go. I see you wrote elsewhere, so I’ll look there before I ask you how you are doing.
SMH Hello from the coldness of the midwest. Not as bad as where you are. Everything ok weather wise? Need me to blow the snow for you. (mind..watch the mind)
I am the only child as my mom was married 4 times, I am from her 2nd marriage. My older brother is from her first. I am from my dads 1st marriage. Two sisters and a brother are from my dads 2nd marriage. Another sister is not related to me at all as she is from my stepmoms 1st marriage. But i consider her my sister.
My family unit is messed up too. After being here I am positive my mom was a MRN………and just a small glimpse into the other weirdness….my dad left my stepmom in his late 50’s for a 17 year old class mate of my youngest sister who after being with him for about 2 years decided she was gay. Cant make this shit up. LOL. It is a wonder I am still alive for all the drugs and motorcycle shit I did. Having my kids straightened me out…..enough to know there were limits to the madness that need to be upheld now.
I am a DE that like you blame others. Looking for love that I never had. Looking for a daddy figure. Thinking sex was love. Hell it was the chase and catch thrill BUT this time I unknowingly was the victim and I did not like it. I want everything above board. Just like you said, it is the shelving that gets me and the thought of how many more are there in real life let alone virtual. I dont mind sharing as long as the rules are on the table. This game was even too much for me. They talk about 3rd party relationships. shit, this could have been a 6 party relationship.
ET high tonight. It is right around the time I normally unblock. Not planning on it…just stating facts.
So if you had not met, gotten entangled and escaped N, do you think you would have felt different about OM?
Kim e, I am eating popcorn so that was perfect. My oh my. It is a wonder you are sane at all. Did you grow up with the other kids or were they living with other families? How confusing. But at least you got a sister out of the madness. Which reminds me that I meant to tell you how a friend of mine did one of those ancestry tests and discovered (only last year) that her father was not her bio father. She also got a sister out of it because when everything was figured out it turned out she had a half sister living not far away. They have both met the bio father too. What are families anyway? Just a middle class fantasy and part of the narc’s facade.
No I do not at all think I would have felt differently about OM without MRN. He wasn’t my type – too dependent and melancholic. Happy to be friends with him but even that might have gotten old. You and I both like a challenge and drugs. We both must have that risk taking gene. Don’t unblock!
Weather was frightful here today. Snow, sleet, slippery, slush. But I did get to wear my new boots.
SMH/Kim,
Oooooooh, you say the weather outside was FRIGHTFUL?…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2uvtl-1V70
(Don’t worry, I’m leaving for work now)🤗
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow🤸♀️
❄❄❄❄❄❄❄❄❄
CIF, Now that is frightful! Ha! No, it’s a cute song!
SMH.
I stayed with the 3 younger siblings for 1 week in the summer until I was maybe……12(?) and every holiday. Yet they were jealous of ME!!! I never felt jealous of them living with MY dad as I just understood. I think they were jealous because since I was older I was allowed to do things like stay up later or watch a certain moveie with my step mother that they could not. I beleive the jealousness came for her paying me attention, not the fact that we shared a father. I really only speak to the youngest now and have seriously a couple of times told her to f off, but never know if I might need her for something. I am good enough to be invited to wedding and baby showers for the niece but my kid wasnt even given a wedding gift. Dont get me started……….my geyser will never stop and then my contagion will fell my geyser and get all upset and have to log off…….
I am interested to get my DNA results back. Maybe you and I are related…LOL
How is your friedns crazy friend? Did that get cleared up?
Kim e, Don’t worry, my savior will step in, plug your geyser up and sanitize your contagion. I had a regular family growing up and everyone was jealous of everyone else too, so maybe we are sisters. Did you already send in your DNA sample?
No word on psychotic woman. Nothing new on FB since yesterday. My friend might have news but I didn’t ask her about it today. I figure if something happens or she needs me, she will let me know.
I had a long workout and am about to fall asleep. I’ll check in in the morning. What are you doing for your day off?
SMH
And then my Super will go batshit crazy and I will have to play my martyr card.. But alas….my codependency will kick in and never let me really leave and the masses will be attracted to my magnet. WOW…..What a strange mixture.
Wish I could find more info on the Martyr cadre…I have looked and cant find.
Day off is nails, doctor, Christmas walk with a group of friends tonight.
I mailed my DNA sample on Monday. Results take 6 – 8 weeks. Cant wait for results. At least is something to look forward to.
Kim,
One of my friends gave me an ancestry DNA kit for fun, a few years back…I came up all Norwegian, except 6% Finnish🤸♀️
I shall be gone-gone for awhile now~both of you stay warm & well/be good❣ Merry Christmas & Happy 2020🎉
CIF…..Same to you girl. Take care and I hope no more holiday hoovers. I am good but cant speak for SMH…..LOL
Hugs and smooches….
Kim e, lol. I somehow doubt I have any martyr in me, or just a dollop, like CIF’s Finnish heritage. I guess HG’s empath detector is like a DNA test, right? What’s in your code?? Haha. I too look forward to your results.
Christmas walk to look at decorations? I am going Xmas shopping today – that is one ‘normal’ thing I am doing.
CIF, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too! I hope your end of year is great! xo
SMH
Christmas walk where they closed down the streets int he town, light the Christmas tree, Santa shows up, all the stores stay open late and serve cookies!!! Roasted nuts too……wonder if they are any one I know!!!
My shopping is done for family as it is all amazon. Just for 1 friend here needed and miscellaneous….nail lady, facial lady…..
I was surprised by my ED.Not sure why. I think the contagion part is what blew me away…it was the highest % after standard. I will tell you my breakdown of ED later. Off to the docs.
Kim e, I think you said at one point that you were a ‘mixed bag’ but maybe you just had it done? I don’t know what kind I am but I assume pretty heavily savior. Today I even bought lunch for the doorman/guard at a museum. I needed pizza, he told me where the nearest pizza place was, and I asked him if he wanted me to bring anything back. He said yes lol – I was sure he would say thanks but no. So I brought him a slice of pepperoni for his late lunch.
I like Harry Nilsson’s “You’re Breaking My Heart” for a theme song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6-kjUWcr7d4
CIF:
Forget the pie: throw the whole pumpkin at him if he does it again.
Violetta,
No pumpkins should get harmed in this narc madness~Lol
Maybe we should stay away from pumpkin imagery altogether…you know, because of the whole pumpkin turning into a carriage/Cinderella/Prince thing…I think that’s the general script he’s on now – seriously. I wonder when he’ll flip it & start hating my guts.
I’ve got this weird mix of feeling super calm & also thinking this is mindbogglingly absurd…because, clearly, it is.
lol Violetta – it only comes in cans during Thanksgiving, unfortunately.
Too funny😂
SMH and Violetta. Can might be better than pie. Heavier and dan he thrown harder. Easier to aim
Kim e, Violetta and CIF, a new game comes to mind: pin the narc with the can/tin! (Not sure if Brits know pin the tail on the donkey).
“Can better than pie”😂
(A can to the noggin outta smarten him up.😂)
Even better. Throw the damn cans. Get those 20-ouncers that look like Henry VIII’s ceremonial codpiece in the armor he wore for the Field of the Cloth of Gold.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/08/3d/bd083d85d61deb322e8d0da2c198e7e5.jpg
And if the sun don’t come, he’ll get a tan from standing in the English rain
Violetta~”Tanning in the English rain”🤣
🎵”He’s taaaanning in the rain – just taaaaanning in the rain…”🎵
(Bu-bye, Caroline…it’s been nice knowing ya).😳
CIF:
John Lennon mash-up with Gene Kelly?
Kinky….
CIF and SMH,
SMH stated “Please don’t fall for it – knowing he is a mid-ranger requires a whole different sort of analysis. He won’t physically harm you but the manipulations are incredibly….”
While that statement is true I am going to play devils advocate and just say No other sort of analysis is required. He is a N. That is all the analysis that is needed. Both of you have told me that so I just feel the need to return the favor. No analysis and certainly none of your energy. We are way better then they deserve and we will NOT allow them to take ANY MORE of our time or energy.
Love hugs and smoochies. Hate me if you want but I had to say it.
Kim e, You are correct and of course neither of us would hate you. I wrote that because whenever CIF and I chatted, our comparisons would take into account that Narc X was a Greater and Narc Y was a mid-ranger. It somewhat changes what to expect, for instance, as well as interpretations of behaviors. That IS a lot of what we do on here. Love and hugs back.
HG when there are a group of say 20 Ns – all mids, would they all triangulate each other? and would they all feel jealous of one another?
You haven’t provided a context for this group of 20 Mid Range Narcissists, AS2016, but in broad brush terms, any interaction between them would require the assertion of control over one another. This would mean that for some, triangulation would be a manipulation instinctively utilised for the purposes of asserting control. Envy and jealousy would undoubtedly be the manifestations of the unconscious sensation of a loss of control.
Thank you for your answer. It’s a really a rather unusual situation hence the lack of context but your reply is incredibly helpful. I may sit back with a cup of tea and watch it all unfold…
You infiltrated the Mid Range Meeting on Sub Level 3 at Narc Club again?
I just can’t keep away! I blend in well with my strong N traits. The mids can’t tell me apart from one of their own. I do need to practice on my pity plays, I’ve mastered the rest! Just future faking them into thinking they’re heading for something very special indeed – they all know they’re deserving of something a bit special – it’s their destiny – what they’ve been searching for all their lives….ahhhh. Then boom! They’ll all have a genuinely sad story to tell!
Alexissmith2016
Haha, you are ever so charitable. Avoid the crisps on the snack table at these Mid meetings. They’re overly salty from their tears.
Hahha oooh thanks for the tip NA – I’ll be sure to take my own snacks now. Not sure I could swallow their tears
alexissmith2016. Please record the audible for sure and the video if possible. It would make a wonderful podcast or sitcom!!! Looking forward to the results……………LOL. Wish I could join you.
SMH,
“>>>NC count with every misstep, I’d have to restart mine today”
Last night I couldnt sleep and was looking at IG. I have a friend that is an instructor where the N does his kickboxing. ( he knows I know her, she does not know I know him) She has a post and it is of a halloween party they are having and SURE has there is a HELL, there is N smack dab in the middle of one of the pictures. I froze and just stared. It was like my brain was turned off. I finally looked away and FUCK came out of my mouth. I unfollowed that person….which pisses me off that I had to do that…….She had it in one of the stories you can put on your page that is only there for a couple hours so chnaces of me seeing that picture again are slim to none but never know if she will do more stories. So now, that picture is ingrained in my brain…….And just to ease your worried mind, he did not have a beard…….LOL
Kim e, That sucks but you will get through it. I hate the way we have to change our activities – that our space is not ours anymore. I’ve seen new pics of MRN but at the time I looked they did not bother me. I would not look now with my ET seemingly high, however. I hope you sleep better tonight, especially knowing that he did not have a beard. But was he carrying a backpack?!
SMH…….No back pack either…….
I slept good last night probably cuz I did not sleep the night before.
Kim e, Then that apparition wasn’t him. Glad you slept well. I did too and my ET was also much lower today. Maybe our ET rises when we lack sleep? Since narcs keep us up all the time, that might have something to do with it. I am a night owl so getting up early is always a problem for me. I remember way back when sleeping soundly past 5:30 a.m. was a huge step.
I did think about MRN today but without ET – no longing. I am sure it was him on LinkedIn because of the timing. There are now 2 private views. I think LinkedIn removes them as the days pass so there have not been any new ones, just a removal of the old ones. But that also means that the views were paced because their disappearance is paced. Probably once a week knowing MRN. Nope nothing has changed…
Anyway, I was super busy today but managed to get to the gym, which I was able to also do yesterday. I was very happy walking home. Was supposed to have dinner with a friend tonight but that is switched to Sunday so I am waiting for another friend to call. Apt guy wants to Skype again. There is no reason to – everything can be done in writing. He could be a wacko but what do I care since I won’t be here and will have taken my undies with me :).
Kim e
Dont beat yourself up. That sounds like one of the ghosts in the machine. It happens. I get it way too much.
The way you’ve explained, is it really realistic that you could have possibly known?
I can utterly relate to your shock. I once had an everpresence reminder from a song. And it wasnt one that we mutually liked either!
Renarde, I get everpresence reminders from songs all the time and we never even discussed or listened to music! I have no idea what he liked or disliked. It’s so annoying.
SMH
Its crap and especially in your case.
HG
Can you explain more on the difference between tendency and a true narcissist? If you have spoke or written on this I apologize, new here. I’m a bit confused and a lot lost as to what is happening in my life. After reading some of these blog posts I believe my husband might be a MRN or an UMR. I would assume since he has been diagnosed as having strong tendencies that he has some awareness. I know a consult would be best but that isn’t an option for me as I’m still married and pretty much under the thumb and we have 3 boys.
Thanks in advance for whatever you can supply.
See “Narcissistic or Narcissist”. If it is not clear thereafter, consult with me.
The example is clear, however how do I know if I’m being manipulated due to ET. I mean he uses sorry, and I feel does have some empathy but what if it’s a lie. Ugh, being so unsure is frustrating. Does someone with tendencies have the ability to evolve or is it still GOSO?
If you are breaching the first golden rule of freedom you are being governed by ET. If you are unsure, arrange a consultation and I will assist you.
hroot83, sorry for butting into your conversation with HG but to my mind, if you are unhappy or scared it doesn’t matter if your husband has NPD or just tendencies. When you say you are ‘under the thumb’ what do you mean?
hroot83
Hmm ‘sorry’ is indicative but not determinate. What I take from your posts is that you’re not happy.
I suggest a consult.
HG, a close elderly friend of mine died a while ago. She was relatively wealthy and had the same financial advisor for several decades. He was a holy N financial advisor. She only knew him as a financial advisor and not ever as a friend.
outside of seeking financial advice from him she had no interaction with him and that is a fact not an interpretation or my perception (to save your reading time I won’t go into the detail of how I know that).
A few years ago she asked me to accompany her on one of his visits. He gave her wholly misappropriate advice And had she followed his advice he would have screwed her out of a substantial amount of money.
I strongly advised her to not follow this advice, explained why and she did not. I also suggested she find a new advisor. Sadly she continued with him.
A few days before she passed away, he visited her on her death bed. She was unable to speak but capable of understanding And able to communicate yes or no. After he had gone I said that it was weird he had visited her and she agreed.
Three weeks later he came to her funeral and treated close family and friends as if he was close with them, he was not.
Long story for a simple question. If you could please assume everything I’ve said to be correct.
Why would be come to her funeral? All I can think of is likening it to when you watch documentaries or films and they say a murderer always turns up at the funeral etc. He had no part in her death. I therefore imagine that he would have derived some sick pleasure from knowing he had screwed her over at some point (he did seem somewhat elated?) and this was him just coming along to prove to himself what a powerful and devious person he is.
I feel physically sick as I’m writing this.
All the above is fact but I do not know whether he actually got away with anything. That part is an assumption based on the fact I know he tried. I know he did not get away with it the time I accompanied her and she definitely never took up that advice from him.
Based on the above do you think he did a screw her over in some way? At another time, with another product. Is that why he went to her funeral and turned up on her death bed? Fuel?
Ah god this is so gross.
Control. He wanted to ensure that there was no suspicion aimed at him, thus he attended the funeral where he would also gain fuel.
I cannot add anything further (although there may be more) without knowing the school of narcissist he is.
Thank you so much HG, although I do feel physically sick and want revenge on this person. I don’t know what school of N he is sadly, or I would have loved to know more.
The first time I met him (when my friend asked me to accompany her), I knew I didn’t like him instantly. I had no clue about Ns back then but before he even opened his mouth and said anything I took a dislike to him. Like you could almost see him coil up in his own drool as he salivated over the prospect of tricking her.
He was smarmy and sly. I know by and large these types will be. He sent chills down my spine even then.
Since I’ve learned about Ns and the schools from you. It is only the greaters who give me chills, but I think that is probably because I know how cold an cunning they are rather than because of some kind of ESP. But back then I guess, I sensed he was not a kind man.
thank you anyway. Obviously if I told that story to any of my friends, they would think it a little odd. But not suspect anything and instead probably believe (because he was a church goer) that he was just caring about his clients.
So it feels good to get some perspective and validation from you. Thanks x
You’re welcome
Interesting alexissmith2016, that only the GN give you the chills. Fair call I guess given they are calculating.
You must have felt relieved when your friend took your advise!
Ah so relieved, but now quite sickened that because of his behaviour when she was dying and at her funeral, I know he got away with something, just don’t know what?
I think the chills is probably more linked to the fact that perhaps with the Lessers and Mids (Whilst I can’t always work out exactly what they’re up to, thanks to HG I usually have a fair idea – plus, because it is by instinct, they actually believe they are doing things with good intent???? bizarre still but it takes the chill away lol). Greaters have some predictability but vast amounts of what they do is not. The greaters know what they are (this is probably the chilling bit), they do it all with intent rather than instinct and I only know a few – thank god!
So the chill I experience is probably an emotional response linked to sound logic if that makes sense.
Do you get any kind of chill when you encounter an N, Narc noob?
sorry HG. i had problem with refreshing the page. i couldn’t see my comment then i sent it once again. now there are two of the same comments here. i didn’t want to invade
Hello HG,
Can you tell us what those fives rules are that you use in order to tell an unwitting narcissist what he or she is ? Because till now i only use two,and that is,1 whenever i feel like doing so. And 2 i have to be willing to discard them right after i told them.
SMH,
Up his hoover game…..this made me chuckle. Like he is being scored on it.
And yes you are correct…married 2 times. Not sure why I married either one of them. Good things from both were my boys.
I also always think/thought of myself as IPSS.. My understanding of IPSS versus DLS is the DLS would never be promoted to IPPS. Our “dates” were always at very crowded places near where we live or work. Nothing hidden. When we went to dinner a couple weeks ago, when he picked me up he seemed very anxious. He was picking me up a block from his house and having to drive out of the neighborhood in daylight. We had gone out before from my house but it was always in the middle of the day when everyone else was at work. He had just gotten off the train with his new CIPSS and the trains were running late. He said he was running late…which he does hate….and that was it. I let it go. First time I had ever seen him frazzled. I was surprised he even picked me up and didnt just tell me to meet him at the restaurant
And now miss smartie pants, you say you can tell me exactly how I will convince myself to break NC. Tell away.
Hope your trip is going well and you are staying out of trouble. I am off today for a couple of days. Word PRess doesnt like my phone and I am not dragging my computer with me. So I will “talk” over the weekend. I am back Saturday.
Kim e, I got a boy from one of them too. A good thing indeed! I shouldn’t have married the second one.
Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t know if I was in line for promotion at any point but his behaviors suggested IPSS because I was tested a lot.
You will break NC by convincing yourself that you can handle it because you are strong and have always been able to handle everything else.
Oyster man couldn’t wait and emailed me this morning instead of waiting for me to email him. He “decided” we shouldn’t see each other again. In the first email he ever sent, he told me that he gets overly enthusiastic and involved very quickly, and it turns women off. He did exactly that and when I pushed back and tried to get him to dial it down a bit, he cut and ran. I have to laugh. Maybe he was a codependent – needs to be needed? But I am not a narc so his attention was not fuel for me.
Hope you are enjoying your time away. I am also away but have my laptop with me (I don’t do narcsite on my phone either – or very rarely).
HG
Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t
HG..sorry…didnt mean to send this before without asking the question.
SMH stated that her N never took her out in public where as mine never had an issue with it. We were described by you as DLS. Why would her N not take her out but mine would?
Also you stated that FWB and Booty call were other names for DLS yet when you describe IPSS categories, DLS is by itself.
Not questioning you. Just trying to grasp what the differences are.
Thank you
As I understand from the information you provided me, the narcissist took you out in public on the very few occasions you spent time together and it was just you and him, thus there was no integration with the rest of his world. You were compartmentalised in a world which was just you and him, separate from everything else, in the same way SMH was – that is the key factor.
we spent too much time together in public – most of time hand in hand- . i guess the point is meeting with his circle, be knowin by others am i right?
Correct.
Ah, that makes sense, HG. I was way compartmentalized, so compartmentalized that I told MRN I was astonished by his compartmentalization abilities. But I know a lot of it was about control – he felt safe and we could relax in my flat. The one time someone saw him, he handled it very smoothly. I was under the impression that a DLS would be someone with whom the narc would not be seen in public because she would be not of equal social status, or something like that – not good enough. Am I way off? I never felt that way with MRN. We were social and intellectual equals. Also, I once asked you what married man would take his mistress out and parade her to his friends and family? They all compartmentalize in that situation.
Another question – MRN once came over on a weekend to meet my (adult) son, who was staying with me at the time. Of course I had not told my son that MRN was married. But I was pretty astonished that MRN followed through. Did he want to see me so badly that he was willing to meet my son? Was he just curious? Was he seeing if I was candidate material? Why did he cross that boundary? I never could figure it out. It was right after that day that things blew up. To me it felt like we got too close and neither of us could handle it.
We will do or say whatever is necessary in order to assert control and if that includes meeting your son, so be it. It may well have been part of the unconscious assessment of your suitability for candidate status, but I would need more information and context to establish that.
Of course. In the end, it did not happen because my son was asleep the whole time MRN was there! Ha. I was relieved to be honest, because had they met, and then things blown up (which they did), I would have had to explain – my son is not all that interested but it would have been embarrassing. The way things played out, I did not need to say anything to my son, but I did tell MRN that he had put me in an awkward position.
MRN was aware that my son and his three kids were at the same school at the same time – in different grades but lots of friends in common. Had he and my son met, this might also have come up in conversation. This made it especially dangerous and it would have breached all of MRN’s attempts at compartmentalization. That is why I think it must have been unconscious candidate testing or MRN just did not think of the possible consequences (maybe not as a mid-ranger).
I used to be insulted I was a secret as well. Sure we’d go out every now and then but I was compartmentalized as well and it made me feel insulted. Now that I escaped… I consider it a blessing I was hidden. Who cares if he insulted me to his dumb friends that don’t even know me, or his stupid family who doesn’t know me. What do I care what people whom I’ll never meet think? I don’t.
Being hidden is blessing. See it as good thing.
empath007
I dont see how they could smear a DLS. They would then have to admit that we existed and that would threaten the facade.
Not to offend, but you sound very hurt that you were hidden. Dumb friends and stupid family lead me to believe you were/are very hurt that you were hidden.
I was hurt at the time. Very. But a lot of that was me not thinking straight and had to do with my pride.
I can have a fowl mouth when I want too, so that’s all that’s about. I do look down on people that can’t figure him out a bit.
I’ve Been no contact for 15 months now so I truly am happy I was hidden. The only reasons I even still
Think about him is because we work for the same company still… so I am always looking over my shoulder. I am planning on leaving but am looking for something else currently.
I have read your thread about being hidden, in my case it was obviously meant to be like that. However, he took some liberties in front of our common friends and even of my husband while we were entangled; for example, he stayed in my house way after everyone left my birthday party with just my husband and me, talking and drinking, which obviously made me feel weird. He also sat next to me and my husband at a bar we went to with a group of friends and he kept drinking from my glass of wine, allegedly by mistake, instead of from his. I think he did all of this on purpose to assert his control and ownership of me. I honestly don’t care whether I was a DLS or an IPSS, but the fact he was triangulating me with another supply outside of his marriage and making us compete against each other while at times asking me if I ever wish our circumstances were different makes me think of the latter. But who cares. I wouldn’t fight for him anyway so I prefer it to stay as a secret, dirty but little.
Ya he probably wanted to cause tension between a) yourself and your husband b) himself and his wife and c) you and the other IPSS…. oh the triangulation !! The fuel !! The “power” to make all these people angry 🤣 plus as an UL he was probably just generally more sloppy and anything in the name of fuel.
You keep your empath. Forget that looser.
He is so fucking entitled and grandiose -while being so rudimentary at the same time- that I was worried he was gonna make everything known for being so clumsy. My husband even told me once he didn’t like the bold sexual flirtation he kept with me on social media. He didn’t worry about anything or anyone. I kept telling him to be less obvious but he didn’t care. I’m sure now he and his wife have a million arguments even though she pretends to be cool.
Lol. Well I like that your husband took notice. Shows he’s paying attention and perhaps a little protective? (I like that in a man)
Can you tell I’m jealous of you btw? Don’t think I hide it well or even try 🤣🤣
Where’s my Testrone driven empath already?!?!? Where! 🤣
Empath007, too much testosterone that night. Narc constantly grabbing my glass, husband referring to me as “his wife” instead of my real name, and me sitting in between the two thinking I am not anyone’s property for fuck’s sake. You don’t want that, be it from a narc or from an empath. But yes, my husband knew I was attracted to narc and he didn’t say anything for a while even when we did a lot of things together as friends. If he found out what happened and how much I had to go through, I don’t doubt he would get in a fight with him. I don’t dream about that!
Jealousy is like a fetish of mine (as immature as that may be) so that sort of scenario only turns me on. My narc would occasionally be jealous of other men’s advances in our work place and I loved it. I also enjoyed being jealous of other women… having a big argument… and then making love….. I don’t deny I may need therapy 🤣🤣
Empath007, jealousy is my Achilles’ heel. My narc quickly found out that triangulation was the only tactic that really worked with me. I would have chewed the other women’s heads and spit them out if I had the opportunity back then. I have always been fortunate to get any person I set eyes on despite competition so this was a very painful experience for me. I know now that he used me to triangulate them too so it was like playing billiards with different balls, there’s no favorite ball, at some point some ball is gonna be used to hit another one. I am so so so so relieved I am not consumed by those negative feelings any longer. I lost weight, I lost sleep, I got up at 4 in the morning to check whether he and the other woman were chatting online. It was like walking on quicksands every step got me deeper into his shit. Fuck no, I don’t want to go back to that ever again. You’re not jealous of me, you are just hopeful that you can also get to meet a person that really has feelings and not a reflection of yours. And you will! Fuck narcs and their mirror games.
Oh… I know alllll about loosing sleep at 4am and checking up on other women. Hell I’d even drive by his house when I suspected someone was there.
Would I want that long term? No. Of course not. Of course it hurt me a lot. Which is why I left.
But I have to admit there is something about that jealous arguing that I connect with. I just get turned on by it.
But in the end the other girls can have him… and I’ve hit the point now where I see it as a win for me.
Empath007, I just remembered that, if you cannot about your narc in November when you attend the conference, instead of looking him in the eyes, look at his forehead; it’s been proven to make people feel uncomfortable and insecure.
Noted
Good to know, SP – the forehead thing!
I’m curious to see if it works, gonna try it today. On random people. Just in the name of science.
SP, how did it go? any freak outs?
Hahaha yes it freaks people out BIG DEAL. It’s my favorite new toy now.
lol SP. I’m going to have to try it.
I meant “avoid,” sorry! Typing in the middle of a traffic jam.
SP, I once had this bizarre situation at a crowded bar with my then boyfriend. A good friend of mine came in with her father who was visiting. The father was very charismatic and clearly now to my mind a narc. Well, the next thing you know, the father is all handsy with me and squishing me up against the bar with my friend sitting right across from us and seeing the whole thing. My boyfriend was about to punch him and I felt the same way you did – what did I do to deserve this? My friend never brought it up and I never dared bring it up either! Her family had the perfect facade.
Sweetest Perfection
Seeing you with your husband was challenge fuel so he triangulated, by “mistakenly” drinking out of your wine glass, to exert control, assert superiority and draw fuel. That was a great example of grandiosity (you are his to possess), sense of entitlement and lack of boundary recognition.
I’m going with a Corrective Devaluation.
K, I didn’t even think he cared I was with my husband that night! I didn’t see him as jealous of him. He tried many times to ask me personal questions about our sexual life, but I told him that was not his business. He also tried to tell me some anecdotes that happened to his wife and I told him I preferred not to know. He, on the contrary, was always open to hear me talk about my husband but I never did. I hadn’t stop loving my husband and was not gonna start criticizing him, that was not it. I guess he wanted to hear I was desperate to leave him or that he was better? Who knows and who cares.
Sweetest Perfection
We project our worldview onto the narcissist so we are blindsided when they do strange (from our POV) things, like drinking out of your wine glass. He is pathologically jealous and your husband was viewed as competition. All of your emotional attention should be for the narcissist and no one else and he was open about talking about your husband and your sex life so he could instinctively gather information (to exploit when necessary) and you were smart enough not to give in to his salami slicing.
He just wanted to exert superiority and control so he could get your emotional reactions/fuel.
K, it was definitely strange, because he invited everyone to a round of Spanish cava. He had his own glass but kept drinking from mine. I thought at first that he made a mistake and said nothing. But he kept on doing that and I said jokingly: “hey, drink from your own glass!”. He didn’t laugh, apologize, nothing, he simply stared at me. So he knew what he was doing. I didn’t think he was jealous of my husband until you pointed it out; I remember now how much he brought him out in our conversations -though I always refused to talk about my marriage with him- and lately, I remember that my husband made a comment. He posted on Facebook some time ago some recognition the city gave him for his work, which has to do with some form of social justice so it’s empathic-related. As you all know, my narc keeps being connected to him on Facebook. He said something like “it’s crazy that everyone has congratulated me for this achievement but this arrogant motherfucker.” I simply said “you know how he is, if he’s not the spotlight he probably didn’t even read your post.” But yes, it makes sense now that you mention it, no matter how hard he tried to convince me that he didn’t care.
Sweetest Perfection
“hey, drink from your own glass!” = Challenge Fuel.
Shit, he gave you “The Stare” accompanied by a short silent treatment. Wounding and challenge fuel can be intermingled. He unconsciously views you as an object, you belong to him and he needed to assert his perceived superiority over you.
Damn skippy he was jealous. Your husband is a threat to his perceived control over you and any information gathered would have been used instinctively to further his aims.
There’s no way in hell that he will congratulate him; this has Corrective Devaluation written all over it and the only thing he cares about is your fuel.
K, he’s jealous of everything. He actually triangulated me with my original hometown. Because there are not any more cities in Europe to visit, he decided to go there with his ugly wife. He kept tagging me in all of their pictures. He also left his wife in the hotel most nights and wandered around the city alone, while chatting with me online. During their whole trip, I felt like my eyes were gonna bleed and fall out for so much crying. I obviously wanted to be there with him instead of her. What an asshole.
Sweetest Perfection
That bastard! He was triangulating you, his wife and your original hometown to create drama, contrast and two fuel streams. Very efficient. He was getting proximate and thought fuel.
I didn’t realize how jealous they can be until I found narcsite. It’s very eye-opening.
K, I agree. MRN once told me about a woman he worked with in whom he was interested. They were at a work function/reception and were drinking shots. His boss arrived and took some sort of interest in this woman. I could tell as MRN told me this story that it made him feel small – the two men were probably both narcs, the boss a Greater. lol. That’s what I think.
SMH
Ha ha ha…it was a Narc Off! Two of them competing for the same fuel source; classic triangulation. May the best narc win and reap the benefits of The Prime Aims.
K, I believe she won because she backed away from both of them. She was young-ish and wanted kids. MRN did not want more kids and told me he would have dumped her ‘within a year.’ The whole story makes sense to me now. I guess he was saving face.
SMH
She most certainly did win. Before narcsite, I would refer to incidents like these as “dick measuring contests”. It’s all about supremacy and he rewrote it to exert control and maintain the facade.
K, yep. Dick measuring and we know how they feel about their dicks. I have to say that when he told me this story I was a tad jealous as months previously he had tried to triangulate me with this same woman (and with IPPS at the same time). But I then realized that he was a fantasist and that the facade was just that. I also got him back because this woman had an ‘exotic’ background (exotic to some). I was once truly involved with a man of the same background, which I saved up to nonchalantly mention to MRN one day (I liked to drop little bombshells while pretending that I was oblivious). I won that round too.
SMH
When you see through the facade, you discover that The Wizard of Oz is just a little man behind the curtain and he’s really nothing special.
Ha ha ha….your Empath Riposte Grenade reminded me of: 5.“Jim has one only his is better.”
K, yup. I had one only he was real. Yours was fake. I actually got to fuck him – a lot – and you didn’t get to fuck her at all. Plus mine had a higher degree than you do (MRN asked me what he did, so I told him).
empath007
i sent a message his IPSS once. she knows me as a girl who disturb his husband. i guess she also knows his new secret but i think she suspects me, he doesn’t deny it. we had an argument on the phone once when he was with a friend. being hidden is blessing but it doesn’t an obstacle to labeling as “crazy”. he blocked me everywhere but he still holds my best friends’ number -she can see his info on whatsapp- my friend blocked him but i am sure if he could he’d talk about me.
i don’t care too. but i can see he doesn’t miss any chance for paint me black, even when he’s gone
Being painted black is a compliment. Sure… it means you are subject to malign treatment all over the place.
But it also means… you escaped… you don’t play by their rules… they can’t play puppeteer with you like they can with those painted white who operate “correctly”
Took me a long time to think about him hating me as the best compliment he could have ever given me. Cause this one is geniune, not riddled in bullshit… he hates me and it’s because he can’t control me…. and that’s a beautiful thing.
So congrats! Cheers to being painted black and keeping it that way 🥂
Being painted black is not a compliment. The fact that you continue to have regard to the manner by which he regards you shows he continues to win, you remain under a form of control through your emotional thinking. By continued application of GOSO you will throw off these shackles and come to realise this.
It’s simply a fact he regards me in that way. And he does so because I dont comply with his wishes. All I’m saying is in my mind it’s a compliment. It took me a long time to gain that perspective and it has helped me heal. Because I no longer want to reach out and apologize about anything the way he wants me too.
I understand what you mean, not that he is actually complimenting you by painting you black, but that, from our perspective, we should feel proud to know we are not “good enough” to be painted white which on the other side of the looking glass is GREAT NEWS.
Correct
Although I doubt mine painted me black. He was trying to shelve me, though. He actually told me so! His idea was to “retain a relationship” with me once we got back to our routines after the summer break. I’m the winter coat of Narcland, waiting in a box until the start of the winter season when they remember I can be of use! Yay.
I cared for the longest time about mine liking me. Especially because we worked together. My ET would tell me to reach out to him for so long to try and burry the hatchet so to speak… to “be mature” apologize for my part in things etc etc. I kept putting it off… and I’m glad I did. Because I’m not going to apologize for giving him what he wanted… which is fuel. Now I understand it’s OK if people hate me. I don’t need to make everyone like me all the time. Him hating me is his business and he’s allowed to hate me. That does not mean I have to care about it. Or respond to it.
Him hating me will make it much easier when I see him at the work thing too. In the past I would melt when he was begnin. So being malign makes it easier for me to remember what a jerk he is.
That’s why I view it as a compliment.
As for you. Be proud you’ve remained out of it. Affairs might be exciting but if it means Rimining your real
Life it’s not worth it.
SweetP
Better to be a scarf so you can strangle the fuck out of him when he opens his mouth.
NA, whatever metamorphosis into something that keeps his mouth shut works for me.
E007, l think you are right. Being hidden is not so bad when you have to wear the DLS badge. It probably makes things easier when the SC is rolled out also. Well that is unless you are like me and make a bigger mess of it than was originally planned 🙄😆
empath007
“… he hates me and it’s because he can’t control me…. and that’s a beautiful thing.”
i agree with this, with all my heart.
I wish I knew what hoover means before. I could have been more cautious after countless escapes. if i knew, i wouldn’t look back.
but it was better. i let him win -without being aware- he used his last bullet for shooting my “separation insecurity” . i let him say the last word. otherwise he wouldn’t let me go, things had become malignant.
i also understand HG’s comment. like “all roads lead to Rome” , every wrong step gives him power.
congratulate your 15th month. mine is 5th yet. I have very few problems except checking his ipps’ IG account -“rarely” but i prefer to “never”- i tried to focuse on myself with baby steps. i hope i will succeed.
Good work ! You will succeed ! This recovery thing is not for the faint at heart ❤️
“Empath007
I dont see how they could smear a DLS. They would then have to admit that we existed and that would threaten the facade.”
They can smear by association and that association is simply by deceiving IPPS that there is someone else lurking, someone else on the sniff, after them. They don’t have to admit there has been any intimate relations etc.
Narc Noob
Oh agreed there. I was going to write very nearly the same.
WTTE that in 5 seconds I thought of three ways to devalue and smear the DLS.
SMH….
I found it so strange that I never felt like a DLS either. I was insulted when HG told me that is what I am because I never felt like I was hidden. I have asked HG why my N did not hide me but yours did if we were both DLS’.
Oyster man…poor guy. Just wants to be needed. I like the way he decided to not see you any more. Takes all the pressure off you…LOL Are we taking odds as to when and if he emails again?
My time away was great. Went hiking, vegging and reading…OH…and eating and drinking. Driving back home I could feel the anxiety rising. Please don’t tell me I have to move to get this to be over. Moving parking has helped. But of course HG was right and since I escaped now I am just wondering how and when the hoover will come. Guess that is pretty stupid of me to do as it could be months
Are you back from your journey? How did it go?
Kim e, I asked HG once too because of course if you are having an affair you are not going to parade your mistress around town (most men wouldn’t) or introduce her to your family. I don’t remember his answer but I left DLS in the dust because MRN and I had a lot in common and he treated me like what I came to call his ‘alt-wife,’ including post-escape. I know it was all smoke and mirrors but he wouldn’t have talked to me about life-changing things had he not had a modicum of admiration. He was really curious about me, perhaps a tad envious and, as I said, he wanted to meet my son. He acknowledged on some level that I had a full life that wasn’t just about him. In fact, he asked so many questions that during one of our death spirals I threw it back at him – how come you are allowed to ask me whatever you want about my life? I always answer but god forbid I should ask you a question about anything!!
As for oyster-man, well, for awhile over the weekend I was pissed off – his generosity was actually a form of selfishness. I was thinking about how he physically crowded me when we were having dinner the last time we saw each other. I kept trying to get comfortable with the space and he wouldn’t give me any. Just like what he did emotionally. But I did not write back and have mostly forgotten about it now. I don’t think he’s the type to email again if I do not respond, but who knows!!
Glad you had a good trip. I did too and have a lot of pending things today. I know how you feel coming home. My anxiety levels would also rise when I’d return. MRN is now gone so it’s my city again, but the last time I had to return when he was still there, I did not contact him until I felt used to being there without him. The same can be said for any space you occupied with yours – one thing that made me uncomfortable was that MRN and I always saw each other at my place. I did not want that to become a problem for me when things went south, so I was very conscious of protecting it by, for instance, always having lots of visitors so lots of people in my space. You just have to power through it and soon it will seem normal, hoover or not. Have a party! That’s what I would do! Just don’t break NC. Give yourself a chance to close those psychic and physical gaps.
SMH….funny thing is this last time that I went NC was caused by seeing him walking that dog. He talked about getting that dog when we were together. After I saw him I thought WTF….I saw you 2 night ago for dinner and you never mentioned this dog that you got 4 months ago? We do talk a lot about both of us and he does ask me questions. I ask him about his girls and military stuff.
I did tell him at dinner that I was sorry I “disappeared”. He said…..”that is OK. You were busy with school”. I said” No. That was over with.” (proving he has no concept of time and the thing just picks up where it left off. On 8/14 I sent him a pic of my diploma that I got in April. He commented “wow..that was awhile ago”. Yet a week later it doesn’t dawn on him that I had graduated when I disappeared…….)
Anyway, I told him I disappered because just because he doesnt do emotions, I do and sometimes mine over whelm me and I need to back off. He said..I get it. I told him I would probably disappear again too. He just looked at me.
I know that he is married and that really doesnt bother me as I have done married in the majority of my relationships. A shrink would have a field day with me. But I am not doing 15 other people.
Sorry to ramble. ET still not under control. I want to cry today. Want to go home and sleep and cry.
But what the hell….you tell me it will only take me 4 – 6 months……..if he hoovers I am dead
Kim e, Sorry you are feeling so down but glad you can make a joke about the 15 other people!
Honestly, yours sounds so much like mine – no emotions, no concept of time, no real engagement with what you are saying, (allegedly) no memories of what was discussed, weird hoovers. It is bizarre. You know I came to the conclusion that mine had a mental illness. Towards the end, it helped me to break my attachment and attraction because I clearly saw the immature little boy. Who knows if I would still feel the same way now but I don’t think they can present themselves any differently. We have seen what they are and what they do.
Didn’t bother me that mine was married either and I think that’s because I knew we could never have a real relationship anyway. It would be different with someone with whom I could envision a life. I don’t normally do married but I did once before decades ago. That relationship was fine. It ended on a good note for both of us after about a year and a half. Since MRN, however, it seems that I am mostly attracted to married men! I think it is an intimacy problem for us too, which might also be why I had such a strong reaction to oyster man.
A therapist might well be able to help you work through it. I did go to therapy for quite awhile when I was with MRN but I did all of the escaping on my own because my therapist was trying to help me to manage it instead of getting out. She had seen me through a few months during the demise of my marriage and thought I was way more attached to MRN than I had been to my ExLH, which was true. She had some good insights but I had to tell her MRN was a narcissist after finding HG. She believed me but by then I had escaped already and told IPPS (which my therapist had said I should do). I think a therapist combined with HG can be really helpful. I look at therapy as a chance to talk about stuff to someone who is paid to listen.
hi SMH,
i felt like I lived your story. i’m still surprised that many things are similar and once again admire your ability to analyze
i realized that I missed him,a few days ago. it was the first time in a long time. menstrual periods and pms are very dangerous. ET increases. this week was very difficult. i felt that he would call me – of course he didn’t-
it’s been 6 months. i want to write about the sequence of events:
he blocked me in whatsapp/phone calls in February. we used just a messenger app and we met twice a week until April.
he sent me his last message in April. and after 2 weeks he opened his online date site profile again.
he didn’t log out messenger, my messages was delivered but he was careful about “read receipt”. he closed it in late May.
he closed his date site profile page in late August.
probably,it’s all about corrective/ disengagement devaluation. we were fighting very often. he was mean to me. he said he wanted to trust me. i thought his attitudes had to be improved first. but what he wanted was for me to obey. and so the story came to an end.
sorry,i wrote the details because i wanted to explain why don’t i wait a hoover or whatever. i am sure that he turned off the faucet. there is no positive/negative fuel. maybe ,as you said, just a thought fuel. but apparently he got what he wanted from the dating site. i guess there is no thought or no fuel for me.
i felt like that he had boxes -before i found HG-. a wife box, a friend box, a lover box etc. the task of each person in boxes were clear. i thought that if he found someone new, my mission was over. now i understand that these are related to the fuel matrix.
for short ; yes everything is about fuel. but the fuel is not about me nowadays.
i don’t know, maybe i should find a new way. i decided to remember him as an one night stand. because remembering as a 2-years relationship is too sad for me.
someone should find the memory erasing drug !
ceyceyc, You make me laugh – remembering him as a one night stand and a memory erasing drug – someone could make a fortune from that! I see you understand the absurdity of it all. Believe me, I was not very good at analyzing anything when I first got here. I knew what was wrong with MRN from other sources, but I did not know how it worked in the day-to-day and certainly not how to analyze it.
The one thing I want to stress is that we spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they are up to (I still do that, obviously) but we really have no way of knowing because we do not know how extensive their fuel matrices are and we don’t know the state of other fuel sources (are they black or white, shelved or not? etc).
I am pretty certain that when I was with MRN his only other intimate fuel source was IPPS, but he also had many other fuel sources in his kids, his family, people he worked with etc.
For instance, one evening he was supposed to come over. He didn’t show up and I got angry and decided to go to his house (I was fed up and IPPS was away at the time). Almost as soon as I left my house, he messaged me that he had gone out for a drink with his workmates (of course had not bothered to tell me). I told him how lucky he was for messaging me, meaning that I was heading to his house, though I did not tell him that. In that scenario, he got fuel from drinking with his workmates and obviously he thought they were better fuel than I was at the moment, or perhaps he was trying to get negative fuel out of me (I didn’t give it to him – did not let him know how angry I was), but the workmates were not intimate sources.
Fast forward seven months and he wanted to come over to my place after six months NC. I didn’t want him to come over but finally I said, okay but you are not coming in. I will kiss you at the door and that is it. He had to have a drink with a client first and was messaging me the whole time. Then he realized that one of his daughters was leaving the country the next day (!!) and he had better get home to see her. He made this decision while he was in an underground station, trying to decide which train to take. I kept saying go home (because he was drunk and I didn’t know if I wanted to see him anyway) and finally he did. But he came over the next morning at 7:30 a.m.
What is the difference between these two scenarios? In both he is drinking and in both the other fuel sources were not intimate ones. In the first, he had a better fuel source. In the second, I WAS the better fuel source.
It had nothing to do with me per se, it had to do with what other sources were available. His client was not a fuel source (and neither was his daughter, apparently, since he did not even remember that she was leaving the country the next day) but his workmates were at that moment and/or he was trying to get negative fuel from me.
Your narc might have gotten what he wanted from the dating site or he might not have. There might be other sorts of fuel sources or he might have just chatted with a few women and felt fueled up. No way to know. He might hoover soon, he might not until later, but he very likely will and you should be prepared for that. I always tell myself that if MRN directly hoovers me, I will come here immediately so that HG and everyone can tell me to ignore it and not respond!
Also, the boxes you talk about are called compartmentalization. HG has posts about this. MRN was a master at compartmentalizing – I even told him that I had never met someone who could compartmentalize the way he did. When I found narcsite, that is one of the things that most astonished me – HG was so very accurate about that.
Hugs!
And sorry it took me so long to respond, ceyceyc. I have barely had a minute the past few days (it is now past midnight here).
Kim e, Just an addendum. Something compelled me to look at IPPS’s IG this afternoon (it is public because she tries to have a niche and a ‘following’). IG has been a trove of information for me over the years, including noticing odd patterns, such as neither IPPS nor MRN ever commenting on each other’s posts but always ‘liking’ them immediately, IPPS never posting a picture of MRN; MRN only posting a pic of IPPS with their kids; neither of them ever mentioning or tagging the other, etc.
Something has changed. MRN has disappeared completely from IPPS’s posts. She still doesn’t mention him or give any indication that they are together, but the last picture of him was last November at an extended family dinner with just his head sticking out from between other people. The main thing I noticed is that he doesn’t ‘like’ her posts anymore (he would like every single one of them, always among the first). He didn’t even ‘like’ the posts of their kids, which is really weird. And one of her posts was her driving around alone on a Friday night (she always says ‘I’ – never ‘we’). I did not check to see if MRN is still on IG but IPPS’s indicates that something has changed because the pattern has changed. Of course I could be wrong since they always seemed like two ships passing in the night anyway, but I could also be right.
My feeling? Maybe she finally dumped his sorry ass. She did it once before we met, so maybe she had enough. I sure hope so!! Not so I can have him, of course. I don’t want him (do I?). I just feel this strange sense of elation and that I can move on now and get serious about married work gigolo (kidding about that!).
SMH HHHMMMM so what triggered you to check IG? And the true question that you yourself asked is “do you want him back”? Interesting that you checked her IG but not his.
I do not dare check my N’s facebook as I know i will trigger so back to then go check is baby momma’s page and his kids pages and some friends pages. Cant do it.
I am so hyped today. Well that is not true…let me rephrase. I was great on the train coming in this morning…..Watching Jack Whitehall Travels with my Father on Netflix…….Then I got to the station and my attitude hit the toilet. IT is like entering a black hole of memories. My anxiety hits the roof. I guess that is why it is called withdrawal and I understand why NC is broken so often to relief the pain.
Wont lie……I think about breaking it at least 938407834 times a day and pray for a hoover. Not sure what at this point in time my reaction to a hoover would be but if I were a betting girl…I would fall for it even knowing what it is.
Enough about me….LOL…I really want to know after all this time what made you check stuff out? How long has it been that you went NC? and besides the last FB and Linkedin friends requests when was the last hoover?
Kim e, I went NC a year and a half ago now. I think the last hoover was around March of this year but I don’t really know. I had two strange FB friend requests, both of which contained clues having to do with my work and travel schedule, with where MRN lives and with the profile names. But for all I know, he checks my Facebook every day. No idea!!
I don’t know what triggered the IG but I haven’t thought about it since I did it – really! I did look at his a few months ago and that also did not disturb me. I saw where he was going at one point (he travels a lot) and that actually kind of disgusted me (tmi to post here).
I think I did not look at his this time or to see if he still had it because I wasn’t interested – I just did not feel compelled. I learn way more from her IG than from his anyway. He rarely posts and when he does it is all planes and water. I pointed that out to him once and said it seemed like he was always trying to escape wherever he was. He never focuses on the thing in front of him (except for his job, which requires a ton of mental energy and planning). He would sometimes even post the same shot as IPPS. He did not care about IG but she does, so the facade is really with her rather than with him, right?
Do I want him back? I don’t believe I do. I have seen now what others have to offer – I did not allow myself to really consider anyone else when I was with MRN because I was hiding behind him. Even though I have not found the right person yet – except for married work guy, who obviously is not 100% right! – I am hopeful. And if he isn’t there, well, I am perfectly happy on my own. Seriously. I told myself in January that I had to get my shit together and just be. I did it for eight months – did not date a soul (though I did spend a good chunk of time with married work guy). Then oyster man came along. I was able to both give him a chance and to break away when it didn’t feel right, so there you go. I do not need anyone and neither do you.
Breaking NC is indeed like a hit of the drug but you have to keep going to that station and make it your own. You are too raw now to see that it gets better but I promise you it will if you get your compulsiveness under control and do not look at his Facebook or fall for a hoover.
SMH……My heart just sank. I just realized that it has just been 2 weeks since I blocked him and this is the first full week that I have moved train stations. I am freaking out for nothing as he probably hasnt even figured out I am gone.
Rum and coke for dinner again…LOL
Kim e, I hope you are feeling better today! He might notice that you are gone and deliberately ignore you or he might not notice, which might also disturb you. The good thing is that you will have no way of knowing. It makes no difference to you!
SMH.
Did you call me DISTURBED!?!?! Not very nice of you young lady…LOL
OK…I will take your word for it not making a difference to me. I am still at the point where it does make a difference but I am going to try not to think about it. My head still hasnt wrapped around the fact that it is over. It is still expecting the hoovers like I got in the past. Once again HG was right.
Thanks for the assistance once again.
Have to figure out plans for the weekend so I dont really become disturbed. Getting hair highlighted Saturday morning but that is all planned. How about you?
Hi Kim e,
Of course you are disturbed. We all are! Haha. I meant disturbed in the form of bother. It should not bother you or make a difference because if you are NC, you shouldn’t care what he does, thinks, believes, etc. So yes, try not to think about it. Accepting that it’s over is a process – not going to happen overnight but you are definitely making progress. I think I was lucky in a way because MRN and I rarely saw each other on the weekends so I never planned anything with him in mind. My life was always normal on the weekends.
However, I will say that when ExLH and I were splitting up I had a really hard time on the weekends for awhile. One day I just said to myself well so what if you stay in on a Saturday night on your own. I made it through and it was a relief to know that I could do it – that it didn’t matter, that I wouldn’t cease to be. That was a big step. I then began planning weekends with friends (exLH had alienated all of my friends) and that continued when MRN came along two months later. I also started going to the gym, in large part to have something to break up the day if I needed it.
I have had a really busy week and now weekend, with no time at all for the gym! Last night I went to a memorial. Lots of people I had not seen in ages, good to reconnect, get drunk, not eat enough dinner, etc. Today I am going with a friend to a museum, a film, dinner and shopping. Tomorrow I have a meet up for this activist group I am involved in. If I had acceded to oyster man’s requests I would be going to Maine on Monday. But I did not and I am not. Staying put. If you and I knew each other and were in the same place, we could make plans. But alas that will never happen…
Where are you geographically speaking? If you commute by train, you must be in a major metro area.
SMH. Disturbed but unique.
I never heard or saw N on weekends when I was CIPSS but once I became SIPSS I heard from 7 days a week. I always found that to be strange. Like the rest of it wasn’t…LOL
I went and got a hair make over yesterday. New me……..I love it. Went to dinner with friends last night and made plans for a Vegas trip next year. Felt good to get out and laugh…a lot….tears from laughing were flowing. Margarita, prime rib and pumpkin pie…….my weight watchers app exploded!!!!!! 6 more pounds to go to my desired weight. I am going to go down 5 more from there but took it in steps.
Did you see my comment about my “carpets”? I was surprised but maintained.
Never say never. I am 30 miles west of Chicago. You?
Today, Sunday, Laundry, Marvel or Star Trek movie binge.
Kim e, I now see the carpet reference. Good for you! See? You can do it! And it sounds like you are taking care of yourself very well. All steps in the right direction.
Funny what you say about the transition from CIPSS to SIPSS. Maybe he tested you more as CIPSS? There wasn’t much of a pattern to MRN’s weekend outreach – it just intensified as time went on (maybe I was also transitioned from CIPSS to SIPSS – not really sure).
I do remember him contacting me one Mother’s Day and I was like, why aren’t you taking IPPS out for lunch or something? Other times I’d be full of plans while he seemed bored. Then he started a sport thing on Saturdays and would occasionally veer off course to see me. But my feeling now is that once he ‘normalized’ Saturdays (because he would say he was coming over and make me make time for him), he simply used Saturdays as another way to extract fuel. The first major argument we had was over a Saturday rendezvous – I told him at that point that he thought I was a satellite of his planet. That was the beginning of the end but it still took 11 more months to fully extricate myself.
I am in NY at the moment but I lived in Chicago back in the day – my son was born there. The friends I reconnected with on Friday are all from that era, as was the person we were memorializing.
Saw the marvelous biopic about Linda Ronstadt last night. I’d highly recommend it to all of my women friends and to all of my musician friends.
SMH…..
Easter 2018 I was texting with my N.
He had hooverd me back kn in February and was now trying to get me to “seal the deal”!
He told me he had to be at his mom’s at 2. At 2:20 I said, “you are late”. He said “no, I was waiting for you but when I figured it wasnt going to happen I left and went to my mom’s. I am there now”.
I walked out my patio door and looked down the block. His SUV was in his drive way!!!! I almost wet myself laughing.
Saturday was great and Sunday was great until around 8 and then something triggered me and I was off to the races. I unblocked and said…..”I dont care about the others…I miss him”. I was even going to go back to the old parking spot. LT then kicked in and he was reblocked.
I then worked my way upstairs to get ready for bed. I went back down and unblocked. I got in bed. I got out of bed and reblocked. I did this 2 more times.
OMG…….tell me it gets easier. Not sure if this was because of the hoover I got Friday and the ET was a delayed reaction.
I am at this point still NC and parking in the new lot.
Other than that…….It was a great weekend…LOL
I was born in Chicago but have been a suburban girl since I was 3.
Kim e, I can totally relate to the blocking and unblocking. Trust me on that. I cannot tell you how many times I would wake up at 5:30 a.m. because that is when he would normally start emailing me. Even when we were NC, I would wake up! Post escape, his email timings changed to more civilized hours. I remember when I started sleeping normally. That was a huge step!
I am glad you had a great weekend even if Sunday night was anxious (which is understandable). The car thing with his mother – whatever pops out of their mouths is the truth for them. I once pointed out to MRN that he treated me and IPPS the same way – that he lied to both of us. You know what he said? ‘How am I lying to IPPS?’ You know why he said this? Because it was Sunday and we hadn’t fooled around since the previous Thursday. There ya go.
We went NC right after that conversation – I really pressed him and insulted him, told him he was entitled, that he treated both of us like children, etc. That was when I began to accept that it was over and to come out of the fog. He disappeared and then hoovered me regularly for the next six months. Then he wanted me back…it’s crazy-making.
I am NYC (Manhattan) born and I will probably die in NYC too! But I also grew up partly in the suburbs, with a few years overseas too.
Kim e, Four ‘private’ LinkedIn views in the past week alone, just in case you did not see where I posted it to ceyceyc. Increasing hoovers, IG looks different, suspicious friend request. But you know what? None of it affects me anymore. A year ago, a private LinkedIn visit would have been like a kiss goodnight. It would have made me feel calm – like MRN was still there and ‘looking out for me’ (ha). Now? Meh.
SMH
Glad you are over it. Hope you can hang tight.
As for me……………I fell…….no jumped off the wagon today. ET still very high. Phone hoovers at work. I was working in my garage on some plants last night. I forgot to pull my car in and there was a piece of junk mail on it this morning. Then the straw that broke the camels back was the call on my work phone…always the work phone….with the name of a military installation on it. It rang 3 times while I just stared at it my mind saying WTF!!!!! It hung up. I text with in the hour.
I …let me count them…was hoovered 5 times…once in person…..in the matter of 6 days. Not to mention I saw him Tuesday night on the street as I was coming home from shopping. Not sure if he saw me.
SHIT!!!!!!!! I feel good and like shit at the same time. I feel good talking to him but once it is over I am kinda blah. Like….well that was fun.
Guess I am going to have to…not sure what.
F*CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kim e, Get back on that wagon or at least keep the blahs going. You see how things have escalated since you had dinner with him? That’s why breaking NC is not such a good idea. It’s a slippery slope. You struggle to get away, he tap taps on your door, and the taps break you down so that you respond.
I don’t expect any direct hoovers so I guess it is easy for me to say. But I should also admit that conversations with MRN have been floating around in my head all day. Made up conversations. Still, I know it will pass and I cannot even be sure that the indirect hoovers were him, though I cannot imagine who else would repeatedly view my LinkedIn in private mode – and no way is it four different people. It never happened even once before I met him. Since he knows that I know he does it, it feels like he is sending me smoke signals. The other ‘coincidence’ is that he knows where I am, since he knows my annual schedule. I am an ocean closer to him (I could drive it in a day) than I am the other half of the year.
SMH Either my blonde is showing or I am not awake yet but I dont understand why you say escalated since I had dinner with him. What does that have to do with me breaking NC? At least keep the blahs going? Not tracking.
I have private views on my LI also but never thought of the N……HHHMMMMM. Not sure he really is that interested in what I am doing to view my LI. We did mention LI at dinner because some how I am connected to one of the BIG partners where he works thru another person I know. This partner does not know me but he accepted my invite. That happened last year. N did not seem surprised that I was connected to this guy and just dropped the subject when he figured out who I was talking about.
Busy weekend coming up….just have to do stuff…nothing exciting. I have to go get a dress for my sons wedding. I hate shopping
but gotta do it. That will be my Sunday. IT is suppose to rain here all day Sunday…heavy at times….since we are getting the left overs form the last hurricane that flooded Houston last week.
I find it interesting that your N has been rolling around in your head lately. Any idea why? Because you looked at IG? OR just one of those things.
Kim e,
I think he is in my head due to the combo of looking at IG and seeing all the LI visits, which were completely unexpected. I glance at LI every week when they send me an email about this or that, and I was on it a lot a few weeks ago because an old friend started messaging me there. At no time were there private visits, and suddenly there are four. I don’t think he looks at my LI to find out what I am doing. That is what a normal person would do. He looks at it so that he knows I will know that he is looking at it, and he is suddenly doing it again because something happened with IPPS, which is my interpretation of the IG. But no worries. I am not going to break NC and I am too busy to dwell on it much.
Having dinner with your N is breaking NC, no? And then all of the hoovers that you’ve mentioned seem to be getting closer and closer together. That is what I meant. Did I misunderstand?
Congratulations on your son’s marriage! I hope you find a nice dress quickly. I also hate shopping!
SMH. I was not NC when I did dinner with N. Dinner was Wednesday. He appeared in my back yard Friday and I went NC on Tuesday. First hoover was then 10 days later…then 2 days later…..then 3 days later.
Guess it doesnt matter now. It is what it is….as my N likes to say. Maybe luck will be on my side and he will just forget about me all together. Stop laughing…it could happen. Fingers crossed for real that it is that easy.
I am excited for my son. I am not crazy about her but then again I dont have to live with her. She is starting to grow on me but hard to get to know someone when they are in Seattle.
Going to check out a new gym on Monday after work. I gotta get back into it before laziness hits. I have not been since 8/3 and my personal trainer got hired and I left that gym. I did join another place but I don’t like the vibe of it…as there really isn’t one. Very boring.
Any word from oyster man?
Kim e, I did laugh! I thought you were NC before you went out to dinner, so that was my mistake. Sounds like the blahs to the hoovers, which is good. Glad to hear it. I don’t think much about my hoovers either (if that’s what they are), except when my mind drifts a bit.
No word from oyster man. I do not think he is a narc and I might have humiliated him a bit by telling him that he didn’t have enough to do (bombarding me with 40 long emails over two weeks suggests he does not). No interest in dating either. I am too busy right now. I realize that I date when I am bored, which isn’t good. Better to meet someone in the course of life, doing what I do. The last person I met that way (married work guy) isn’t suitable but we are in touch because he asked me to be on another project with him (I said yes, though I had said no to his last request). I feel like I can just be myself with him – good and bad — because we are not trying to date each other (or maybe we are but he is married so there is that). He has my back and he is mentoring me in his own weird way, so I am getting a lot out of it work-wise too.
I hope all goes well with your dil for both you and your son. Are you ready to be a grandma? I am not at all but I don’t anticipate that happening anytime soon!
SMH….I stand corrected. I had been NC before the dinner. I went NC in May, unblocked end of June, car got invite to sandwich shop in July and electronic hoover and dinner happened in August.
So I will split the difference with you. ……
lol okay Kim. You should write it all down so you remember!
SMH……Dot laugh. It could happen…. (yes I typed that with a straight face)
Grandkids I do not see on the agenda. They have a great life travel all the time….just got back from a prewedding honeymoon in Dublin for a week. She has her own business. He is IT support like his mom. It is up to them. As long as they are happy I dont care.
I did not go shopping today. Not in the mood. And if not in the mood it will be worse than when I am in the mood. Maybe next weekend……..I have until 10/9….no rush……LOL
Kim e, It won’t happen. It’s all on you. Honestly, I cannot believe what a burden this is. How do they burrow in so deep and take over our brain cells? I know that HG has tried to explain it over and over, but there is still something very mysterious about it. I call it chemistry. In fact, I asked HG a Q about that because on the surface oyster man acted just like a narc – love bombed and then discarded – but it has not bothered me at all because the chemistry wasn’t there right away. With MRN it was like a bomb hit.
I hope you find a dress quickly when you get around to it. You do sound just like me. I wouldn’t even know where to start. I have the same dresses that I’ve always had but luckily I have no reason to wear a dress.
SMH,
Cant I create my own illusion where it will happen? Where he just forgets I ever existed? that is what I want. I cant find hate for him. I know HG has told me over and over again that he is abusing me. That I am putting my head in the loin’s mouth.
I had a thought come to me this morning….well more than 1 really but this one caught me by surprise. I remembered when I was consulting with HG over the phone. (This was the first time her told me about the lions mouth) When I got off the call, I noticed that N had texted while I was speaking to HG. At the time I thought how ironic is this and just stuck my head in the lions mouth and answered the test.
Right now I am kinda numb to the whole thing. I want to correspond with him, see him. BUT if I never heard from him again I would be ok with that. Now before you get all excited (I will think of you when I have my salad for lunch…LOL) and yes HG I know this is my ET bellowing…..but NC and the word wounding kills me. I know what it means in the context it is said here, but my mind just goes to you are hurting him. As I said before, as much as I read and read and feel others pain and agony and joy of being off the wheel, I just cant wrap my head around that any of it is referring to me. I can relate to the experiences obviously as I comment on them.
I have said before that I guess there will just come a time where I say enough. Where he will show me his “other” side and I back away.
But in the mean time, I like my illusion of “IT COULD HAPPEN” (No I dont believe it….)
I hadn’t really worn dresses either except to things where I thought I had to UNTIL the N. First time I wore a little black skirt, I got the comment of “Skirt is kinda short”. I replied “you dont like it”? N replied “I didnt say that”. I smiled to myself thinking OH YEA…he liked it.
N awoke a lot of things in me that had been dead….hidden away…for years. I do thank him for that.
Sorry to go on……..just good to have someone to talk to that can relate. 🙂
Kim e, Hope your salad was crisp!
I don’t hate MRN either, which is why it is a good thing that we live in different countries and he has not tried to directly hoover me. I also felt terrible wounding him, even though it was funny and I still laugh about it (I teased him and it was like I had shot him). I apologized but I also told him that his reaction was completely out of proportion to the offense – silent treatment. Since I was lying on the sofa with tendonitis and we were supposed to be friends, I got furious. That is when I finally exploded. It took two years of his abuse for me to lose it completely but there is no going back now. Burn those bridges.
I still have my illusions (like his LI visits are cries of help for me to rescue him) but a little voice in my head wonders if he even remembers who I am at this point. I am sure he must have another fuel source – he certainly did after i escaped. i do not know how far it got but he didn’t have any trouble replacing me after awhile, which i admittedly told him to do. So when reality comes rushing in, I come to my senses.
You have to remember that they do not ‘do’ relationships in the same way that we do. This means not only that you cannot connect with him on a human level because it is impossible for him. It also means that whatever you have done is like water off a duck’s back. They are not suffering because we are not special to them – we are just another fuel source.
MRN also awoke a lot of things in me – he brought out a side of me that I did not even know I had – and I thank him for that too because it felt like a spiritual thing – like yin/yang. I told him long ago that no matter what happened, i would always remember him as my port in the storm, and he was for awhile. I told him what I loved about him and he told me what he loved about me. He made me a much more open person in all ways. I have held onto that – it is just not usable with him. It is now for someone who deserves it. I have not yet found that person but MRN doesn’t deserve it either, and neither does your N. He might not forget you but you must forget him!
SMH
If all on me, this is what I told CIF this morning
I wnt to bed at 730 last night…mentally exhausted. I was up at 1130 and at 12 went back to bed. My brain would not shut off thinking of N. And then I thought “Why worry about who he is with. It isn’t you so leave it alone. Get off the merry go round”.
This morning he was blocked again. I have to admit if he would have kept up the banter after I texted him last week, I would have not done it…but Shit! I want someone that wants me and only me. That when I get a Good Morning text they mean it and cant wait to see me and hold my hand and soak up my tears……..crying now….great……good thing no one else at work yet! 🙁
.Thanks for standing by me,,,,it means a lot to this heart broken empath.
This is for you too!!!! XXOO
Aww Kim e, Thanks and sorry. I hope you are feeling better now and had a good day at work- I will respond to your other post separately.
Here I want to say that I just had someone who wanted me and only me (oyster man) and it was suffocating. It is not enough or it is not what you want. You want someone who respects you, who is honest and who is stable enough so that his own issues are not being dumped all over you. I’ve kind of had it with men who project their issues, whether to my supposed benefit or not. My exLH wanted me to be his mother – I felt like he vomited his problems all over me. MRN did the same but in a much more insidious way, and oyster man did the same, though in a seemingly more ‘positive’ way. None of it was right. I mean we all carry baggage but mature people do not take their issues out on someone else.
SMH,
I think what Kim meant was she does not want to just be a “side benefit” — does not want to be one of many women who mean nothing substantial — but to have a real, committed, sincere & honest, healthy relationship. I don’t believe she was meaning that the person should have no life besides her. Of course people need to have their own solid sense of self, goals, interests, friends & a balanced life, outside of a chosen, intimate relationship. Totally agree on that point.
CIF and SMH
I think what Kim meant was she does not want to just be a “side benefit”.
This is true. You are both correct.
And CIF, going back to your post regarding triggers, the word Chosen is one for me. As I told SMH the other day, that was the 1st chapter he self titled in the book we were going to write together.
Now where is that box of tissue……… 🙁
SMH,
Kinda numb today. Not happy but not sad. I am sure the struggle will get intense in the coming days, weeks, months. But I have got to do this.
When I quit smoking people used to ask me, do you notice a difference when you stopped? I would tell them NO. I noticed a difference when I started again”. Same with N. Since texting last week, that always weepy feeling came back. Oh sure…the high was there when we text but this morning I realized that while we were texting, I asked all the questions just to keep the “high” going. (he did ask how I was….cause he loves me……LOL). And of course he had to have the last word in the text.
Right now I want nothing to do with anybody as far as a “relationship”.
I did go to the new gym last night and it almost killed me!!!!! I have done nothing as far as working out since 8/3. This guy had me doing dead lifts of 75lbs. I got home, layed on the couch, took my shoes off while laying down cause I did not have the strength to take them off sitting up…(pitiful) and passed out for 1.5 hours. I also have decided I am staying on Weight Watchers as the food they want me to eat is not enough to keep me going. I am not looking to lose weight as I figure that will happen once I get back on the workout routine. Then I will drop WW all together.
So I guess it is headed to Kim time…for me…..remembering who I used to be…planning on my next move on who I want to be.
Kim e
Who did you used to be? What did she want or plan to do before you encountered the narcissist?
NA
I used to not take shit from anyone. It was this is me like it or not. Most of my long time friends say it took them some time to realize I say it like it is and they appreciated it in t he long run. They also say I put up a very brave hard front but know I am mush on the inside.
I was so turned off by the thought of a “relationship” because I had been burned bad in the last one, (ironic isnt it) that males that approached me, even if I knew them from work, if they extended their hand or went to hug me I literally backed away.
Not sure that I had a plan for the future before I encountered the N. Maybe I was too involved in running from the past.
The new me will still speak her mind but will be in it for ME first. I have been on my own since I was 15. Need to learn that part of me again and just improve on it. and SMILING>>>>>>and joking>>>>>>and laughing>>>>and not looking over my back.
Thanks for asking.
Kim e, I think you just want to be yourself and have a normal relationship, with its normal ups and downs but without the extremes. You are right that in order to get that you first have to center yourself and get back to who you really are. I’ve never shied away from a relationship until now, but that’s not because of MRN. That’s because I figured myself out (a lot of it thanks to MRN). You sound a lot like me. I haven’t been alone since I was 15 but I did start to get into a lot of serious trouble at 16, almost died and was sent away to another country halfway around the world for a year at 17. So pretty much on my own since then. I think that sort of stuff damages us because we do not feel supported when we most need it and so we kind of decide that no one is going to save us but ourselves. Lucky people who never have to have that realization. But difficulties are also what make us interesting and who we are. My friends are the people who see the mush but I can also be really, really so hard that no one can get through to me. I discarded one of my best friend three years ago and never thought about it again (we had an argument and she said something I could not forgive). So that was that. I have a lot of friends anyway, make friends easily, and I wouldn’t want to be anyone else. Would you? I hope not because I think the worse thing that can befall someone is to wish they were someone else.
I can’t believe you did 75 lb dead lifts! Bravo!
SMH
2nd weight lifting class tonight. If I can lift my arms tomorrow I will let you know how it went.
Well done for forming a distraction and a healthy one at that.
SMH,
Well I feel good today so I am checking in to say I am taking break from the site. It consumes my days and keeps N alive more in my mind trying to figure out how to get out of this and when will he hoover, how will he hoover……..yada yada.
I’ll be back. Could be tomorrow. Could be a month. Keep happy thoughts for me as I know I am no where near where I need or want to be on this journey from hell.
Love kisses and hugs.
PS….LOL…just have to say it…behave yourself!!!!!!
Hi Kim e, It has taken me awhile to catch up. I just responded to your message from a few days ago. I totally understand why you are taking a break and, like HG, I think weight lifting is great – healthy and an excellent distraction! Glad your arms didn’t fall off! I too was a gym fanatic both during and after my MRN phase. It kept me a lot more even keeled than I would have been. I don’t go as much as I should now, but when I do it still calms me.
As for narcsite, well, you come back when you need to or when you feel like you can handle it. It will still be here, and so will a lot of us. I am unplugging from most things next week, including work, but don’t feel that I come here too much or that it triggers me. I also find a lot of it entertaining and enlightening, so I will be around if you come back. I hope being away both on your trip and from here helps.
Love hugs and kisses back. I so wish we could meet!
And P.S. I will behave. There is not one man on my radar except for married work guy, and he is in another country. I have no interest in getting involved with anyone right now. Just glad to know I still have ‘it.’
SMH,
My inner N must be on high alert. I had a feeling that you were going to reply so I reset to get notifications and here you are !!!!!! Nice to see you.
I have to tell you that I am missing the N very much today and there are 2 possible reasons why. 1. It is just one of those things that happens when you are new to NC. 2. This is a long one so get some popcorn and a drink. I will wait. ………OK? READY? here goes
First I have to say that I do not take my phone upstairs with me at bedtime. It remains downstairs. Dont think I would hear it ring or ping from down there as I sleep with 2 fans on. Some time before NC, I was in ignore mode but not NC, I heard the N’s text ping in the middle of the night. My eyes shot open (literally) and I held my breath waiting to see if I heard the 2nd reminder ping or if I had dreamnt it. I never heard the reminder ping but of course did not go back to sleep either. Last night, I heard the ping again while I was asleep. It sounded like it was in the distance. I semi woke up…thought ot myself “Good Morning W” and went back to sleep. So I am taking it that
1. I was missing him already and this was my subconsiuos as I slept
2. He is in my brain saying…..”come out come out where ever you are…”
3. I am getting better at this NC thing as it really did not trigger me to become fully awake or make me want to unblock.
Believe me. My LT has been having to wrk overtime this week on my ET. Maybe cause I am forced to park in the old place???!!!!
Guess I will stay on the site just to communicate with you. I can just delete the stuff I dont want to read.
Pumped iron 2 nights so far this week. I have delayed muscle pain so I figure on Friday it will catch up to me. But I feel good after I do it. The N was the reason I started working out. One thing to thank him for.
Dress shopping this weekend…..talk about stress. I hate it…but gotta do it.
Meeting would be excellent…….but alas……..
Nothing else going on this weekend. How about you? I know work has you stressed. What do you do to forget about it?
(Hi HG)
Kim e, Glad you checked back in!
This will be a quick reply because I have to go out but the pings in the middle of the night, the semi-consciousness, the feeling that he is there (good or bad) – I experienced all of that too, so couldn’t NOT answer you right now.
MRN had me so conditioned that I would wake up literally 30 seconds before his email would arrive around 5:30-6:00 a.m. because that is when he would get up for work. You know when your kid is breastfeeding and your milk comes in right before they cry? It was like that. Then when he didn’t email, I’d still wake up. This started happening very early on and is one reason I dumped him after a month. I could tell that he was ensnaring me in some awful way, though I did not have the knowledge or vocab that I have now. It is also one reason I went back to him – I wanted those early a.m. emails because I found them calming.
Other times I would have out of body experiences. I once became him looking at me looking at him. I told him about it, analyzed it, and said he was my ghost who inhabited me. It really was like I was experiencing another dimension of being.
Once I let myself just experience it without freaking out, I kind of enjoyed it/found it fascinating. As things died down last summer, I would still ‘feel’ him occasionally and would still find it calming, especially had he left evidence of an online hoover. I had all sorts of dreams. Eventually it faded. I think the last time I ‘felt’ him must have been over a year ago. I did not feel him when I saw the four LinkedIn visits the other day.
I do not know what it is. You are missing him, he is in your brain, but you are also getting better at the NC thing. HG would say it is everpresence but I don’t find that answer very satisfying because I want to know what it is biologically. But I don’t think I will ever find out (I looked up all sorts of stuff about the out of body experience) except that our anxiety levels are so high that certain hormones are elevated and I am sure those play a role. Another reason NC is so important is to get those hormones under control. Cortisol in particular is not good if the level stays elevated for a long time. So once those things you are experiencing start to fade, you will know that your hormone levels are normalizing. In the meantime, don’t let it scare you or throw you off your path. Just go with it and keep lifting those weights!
I will answer the rest tomorrow. I have to go out, have an early morning work thing tomorrow and then I am pretty freed up!!! Yippee!
Hang strong! xo
P.S. HG, look for George Conway’s piece on Trump’s sociopathy and narcissism in The Atlantic. I think you’ll find it interesting, though I am sure you will also find things wrong with it!
Hi SMH,
Yea. My N would start texting at 4:30-5:00 in the morning after we have texted until 12 – 1 the night before. I always wondered how he managed to look so nice. But then again I was getting dressed between texts too. Fastest showers on record. Lots of baths cuz I could type while sitting in tub.
I woke up in around 2 and felt a ting of panic. What will I do once the N tires of me and no longer hoovers? What if he is done with me now? My LT tried to tell my ET to shut the hell up and go back to sleep but ET won this time. I remained awake….but still NC.
Cortisol…that answers my question!! I have been cravinbg sugar like crazy…if there is candy, I am eating it. Guess stress is goes unnoticed after so long being under it
(GREAT A coworker just came around and said Cinnabuns in the kitchen….I am screwed again today!!!!)
Back to reality…hahahaha. I agree about feeling the connection lessen. Mayb that is the reason for my panic in the middle of the night. MY ET is freaking out that my LT might actually win this battle. I have to be sure to get my LT in order as you and I both know after a certain amount fo time passes, I will get cocky. OR N will decide my ET has raised up again and I am prime for a hoover.
So would now be a good time to tell you that I have started talking to a guy on IG? Is he a N? OH ABSOLUTELY!!! But …since I know what the story is, I will get bored and tire of the BS and block him. Just passing time.
Kim e, That’s funny because I basically just wrote you that I am also passing time playing tiny little mind games with sexual harassment guy. I am sure he doesn’t deserve it but there is no one else around to fuck with :). Maybe I should go back on the online dating site. We’ll see.
Funny you should mention the battle between your ET and your LT the way you did because that makes perfect sense to me. We somehow revel in our ET – it is comforting to us – and LT means we cannot have it anymore. So our ET freaks out, as you put it. I hear ya!
Have that Cinnabun (you probably already have) and then get thee to the gym!
Anyway, I am really streaming my consciousness tonight but I feel so relaxed. Must go to sleep though as I have to get up at a reasonable hour tomorrow.
By the way, I am very proud of you for working through all of this and sticking to NC. I know you can do it and even if you fall off the wagon, you’ll get back on it again. If there is a next time it won’t be nearly as intense. Remember way back when I said that cold turkey doesn’t always work or that there might be situations where a more gradual NC works? I knew HG would disagree with me but don’t let me down. Let me win this one against HG! 🙂
SMH,
I knew I had to work this thru my way also. Listening to HG and reading I am sure has helped but each time I go NC, i get more like….nah, not doing it again. I get that there is still a long road to go and that ET could win again, but such is life. Off the horse and back on. Right now the prospect of him hoovering does not get me as “excited” as it used to. Doesn’t mean I wont get wet if I see him and he starts in…..LOL.
I guess the one thing I have going for me is he is a MRN and really doesn’t have the balls to just walk up to me.
I did have a Cinnabon. I have been having sugar cravings. So I purged the house this morning of all cookies and breads. I gained 3 pounds last week and I know it is from all the shit I have been eating. So upset with myself.
Gotta go get dressed…talk later
Kim e, I like your attitude. I also do not know what would happen if MRN suddenly popped up but I am lucky that the chances are very slim since we live in different countries now. In addition, of course, just like yours he is a passive mid-ranger, so the chances of him really making an effort are next to none. The saving grace of being entangled with a mid-ranger.
I’ve cut most gluten out of my diet completely, so I am not tempted by cookies or bread. Today I did not have dinner at all – didn’t have time – and only had a salad for lunch. Now I am too tired to eat but I fear I will wake up ravenous in the middle of the night, though kratom (which I am drinking) also suppresses my appetite.
I can’t believe you read all that I wrote last night (or was it the night before?). I was so tired and when i get tired I am like a toddler, I get more and more hyper until I crash completely. I was in hyper mode when I was writing, so thank you for responding to all of it!
Hi Kim e,
Another longggg day. Up at 5:30 a.m. (nothing to do with narc – I had an early remote meeting and then several hours of work after that). I then had a nap in the afternoon but had a bad dream – again, nothing to do with narc – I dreamt someone close to me was about to commit suicide – I got to the door, it was locked and then I woke up. Busied myself with this and that, and went out to dinner with some friends (someone else paid for it!).
Tomorrow I have to leave the city for part of the day, and then I have a thing tomorrow night back in the city, so it will be a lot of running around. To unwind I come on here (I actually can unwind on here or only come on here when I am relaxed – it’s quiet, at least), drink kratom tea, and sometimes watch a series or a flick, read the news (because I am a news junkie) or just go to sleep.
I was talking to the two friends I went to dinner with about why men are attracted to me, think I am nice, cute, a pushover, etc. But when they find out I am smart, they deflate. MRN never deflated – he was not intimidated at all. I think that’s why I remained so attached to him. His ego was strong enough to like both my brains and my body plus he made a lot of money so I did not think he would compete with me. Little did I know… Oyster Man pops into my head occasionally and I think, I really should get in touch with him, especially because in two weeks I will be in the town where he has a house and I don’t want to surprise run into him (it’s a small town). But then I think nah. Going out on dates or having any romantic involvement with anyone doesn’t interest me, probably because I haven’t met anyone who interests me…
Anyway, stream of consciousness here. How was your day? Did you get your dress? The clock is ticking 🙂
SMH,
Kratom tea? Do ell more. I am a tea junkie. Earl Grey is my favorite and is my caffeine fix in the morning as coffee and I stopped getting along years ago.
I unwind with the TV on for back ground noise, looking at phone stuff and on the site. Then I usually look around and end up doing something around the house. Last night I was watching YouTube videos and just paused it and cleaned the bathroom…LOL Scattered, right?
Do you believe in tarot cards or astrology?
Dress shopping is today.Time to go big or go home. I am getting excited about the wedding but kinda stressed about the travel. I fly into Seattle on Thursday and meet my younger son at the airport. Then get the rental car. Not sure what the Thursday night plan is. Friday morning we get food, booze and flowers in Seattle and then drive 2 hours to the wedding location and start setting up. The guests start arriving at 3. A cocktail reception from 4 – 6 then food til 8 then movies. Saturday morning a 2 mile hike up Mt Reiner if you like then back for breakfast. Wedding at 3 followed by cocktails at 4 and reception at 6. Sunday, clean up and drive back to seattle. Day of ???? no idea. Then Monday I have to get an uber to airport for a 6:00am flight. I am off work Tuesday as I will be exhausted. LOL…I am exhausted just writing it all out.
Tonight after a day of shopping going to see the Rocky movie…I love cheesey movies like that. And all the disaster movies that are total crap……I love them. Hate romance movies. Love shoot em up movies.
Does meeting up with OysterMan have to be a date? Not just 2 people that know each other having a nice conversation and food?
Day is good so far. It is 9:10 AM here. I am chatting with the Hang Outs narc that I acquired, the doctor. He is boring as hell and keeps asking the same questions over and over. I determine I will say Bye-Bye to him by the end of the weekend……….he just asked if I am right or left handed…….barf….
Why are you chatting with a Hang Outs Narc?
HG, I know. I know. Are IG narc’s better to chat with?
Are you serious?
No contact means no contact, not-chat-to-narcissists-in-Google-Hangout-or-on-Instagram-contact.
No Contact.
This is like asking me,
“HG, you said do not take take the cyanide capsules, so is it okay to take just one?”
HG. I am kidding. Just being a smart ass. I have blocked and deleted all IG and Hangout narc chats. My head is out of the lions mouth.
Kim e, I had to laugh at HG’s question about why you are chatting with Hang Outs narc after I just posted a response to you about how entertaining it can be. HG, some of these guys are so dumb and their stories are so ridiculous that one kind of becomes curious about how far they will go. It’s just mindless stuff really.
Kratom is not tea, tea. It is like yerba mate, but stronger, I think. It’s a tree leaf that has various sorts of qualities depending on which strain you use and how much. It is possible to get quite high/relaxed on it but not to od from it (though I suppose one can take too much of anything). I found the strain I like and the effect I like, akin to having a drink at the end of the day (though sometimes I have it in the morning too – separate from my coffee). It’s not like being drunk, however. A lot of people use it to wean themselves from opiates. I order mine from a place in CA because they are quick and their strains are consistent.
Your wedding event does sound rather exhausting. You have two sons? Both in Seattle? I thought you only had the one. But it should be fun and who knows, maybe you will meet someone – an appropriate widower :).
Speaking of which, yes, exactly about Oyster Man. That is what I would be after – a friendly chat over coffee. But it is hard to separate him from the dating experience with him, and I think that’s why I push the thought out of my head. I must admit, though, that I have been doing a lot that I think he would enjoy/be into, so part of me feels like he would have been a good partner, if only he wasn’t so ott…maybe worth another shot or at least reaching out to see where his head is at. But yes, I would do it as friends.
I have had someone read my tarot cards but I think I believe in astrology more. MRN is a fixed air sign and I am a fixed earth sign. I once told him that he was IN the world but I was OF the world. I think I am right. On all of the astrology sites, it is about the worst combination there is. But there is also the indication that it is their very differences that make their relationship electric and volatile. It all fits.
Do you believe this stuff? Did you get a dress? And are you right or left handed? hahaha
“Kim e, I had to laugh at HG’s question about why you are chatting with Hang Outs narc after I just posted a response to you about how entertaining it can be. HG, some of these guys are so dumb and their stories are so ridiculous that one kind of becomes curious about how far they will go. It’s just mindless stuff really.”
SMH, your ET makes you believe it is mindless and no harm is coming from such interactions, but at the minimum ET is being increased through such interactions. It contravenes the First Golden Rule of Freedom. This has two potential issues
1. Ensnarement in some form by the apparent moron that is being engaged with, and
2. Cross-pollution by the ET in respect of another existing narcissist, one which has caused more extensive problems.
I expand upon this problem, the risk and what occurs through consultation.
Hadn’t thought of cross-pollution, HG, but want to be sure I understand what you mean – what we call ‘triggering’? Last year. I was involved with someone who is a narc, though not a moron and not the same kind as MRN, and he triggered my ET, which I recognized. It did not make me break NC with MRN but I did dump the guy.
I am not referring to triggering SMH, although you are correct to make mention of that as a possible consequence. Cross-Pollution is a dangerous effect of engaging with other narcissists who may be viewed as “safe” compared to the “main” narcissist. It is a detailed consideration which I expand on in consultation.
SMH and HG
“I am not referring to triggering SMH, although you are correct to make mention of that as a possible consequence. Cross-Pollution is a dangerous effect of engaging with other narcissists who may be viewed as “safe” compared to the “main” narcissist. It is a detailed consideration which I expand on in consultation.”
Yes HG. I am not sure it was “triggered” as we refer to it, but the thing that got me to block these guys from IG and Hangouts is after talking to the one on Hangouts Friday and Saturday, I found myself awake inthe middle of the night thinking about him. That “triggered” me to say….OH NO…thiis is not good. I was just getting to the point where my N was there still but was going further into the back ground.
Not sure what cross-pollution is but I would imagine it is the interweaving of both the N’s manipulations at the same time on my ET. Nope….learned my lesson on this one, No more chatting with anyone that I do not know on any platform. Back to my NC.
Jolly good.
HG, How close was I in my definition of Cross-Population?
cross-pollution is but I would imagine it is the interweaving of both the N’s manipulations at the same time on my ET.
I will explain in consultation to save my fingers.
HG. Thanks but I will keep my money and you can save your fingers this time around around. Not that important to me as I really do not ever plan on being in that position again.
Kim e, Glad you blocked Hangouts (and thanks for that clarification, HG). I think everyone triggers me, whether I know them irl or not, especially when I get to a certain point in a relationship – the walls ALWAYS go up.
Coincidentally, I had a very weird dream about Oyster Man last night – must be because we were chatting about my contacting him. In my dream, he had hidden a lot from me. He lived in a big old house, which I visited, only to find all sorts of people living there, including other men and women. The main person in the dream did not look like OM at all, but I knew it was him. Irl he was very open and honest (I think) so I don’t know where that dream came from except it was a cross-pollution type thing with some MRN overlap. I don’t think it means that OM is a narc. It’s just my addled brain. I should probably contact him just to rid myself of the subconscious muck. But then if he does not answer me, it might get worse and feel like an ST, so maybe I shouldn’t…
SMH…OH BROTHER!!!!! LOL. Our minds are truly warped. I slept like a rock last night and today my anxiety is thru the roof. I hate this shit. Cant wait until I get back from the wedding and the parking lot maintenance is over and I can go back to my new I hate driving to this parking lot parking lot. Time…I know it takes time. SHIT…I am not getting any younger.
Text O man and just feel it out. If he doesnt answer….oh well. You sound like me when I would hear from N and I would break down and text him and think to myself, “now get ready for not getting a reply”. But he never did not reply. Might have been cookie BS buit he always replied. EXCEPT for when I spewed about me knowing something had changed, I got a corrective devaluation which I did not apologize for (didnt know what it was) was devalued and deleted in 4 days. THEN…I did not get a reply….LOL Ahhhhh the good old days.
I think the relationship was easier when I was blind to what he was. Afterwards all I did was not be myself for fer of wounding or pissing him off and being ignored or whatever. I was forced to then play the game………..which was not a game to him.
Done talking about him..tody anyways
Got my hair cut last night and nails done tonight. All packed. One more work day and then I am gone.
Thought you had things going on this week and that I would not hear from you. If we dont catch up again this week, I will check in next week when I return.
I have done drugs, booze and men. Time for a new hobby……….hhhhhmmmmmmm
lol Kim e – maybe politics? Oh wait, we’re doing that here on another thread – the old Trumpster is always good for a head spin.
I never had any of these problems before. Wish I could get back to my old naive self for sure.
I have been v busy this week and took today off (yes it’s only Tuesday but yesterday was a killer and tomorrow and Thursday will be too). I am going away next week but then I’ll be in OM’s town…yeah, I will contact him but later in the week after all the hoopla has died down. MRN always replied too – sometimes curt but never ignored for more than a day or two, and only rarely, except for post-escape after I teased him, and then I went berserk. I do know where OM lives so maybe I will end up on his stoop screaming at him 🙂 (kidding).
Anyway, you do have something to look forward too – I think it’s exciting that your son is getting married and weddings are always fun! Plus, you get to travel and you got a new dress. Did you describe it to me anywhere? I have to check your other responses – just getting to them now.
SMH……Trump???S hit I would rather sit in a room of MRN’s gaslighting me….OH WAIT!!! Same thing as listineing to Trump. He comes on the TV or radio and the volume is turned off.
I will describe the dress as a good geyser empath would do. It is knee lenth black with a sashof grey around the waste and bottom. The bottom is not even but asymentrical. The attire was to be little black dress or cocktail dress. As the wedding itself is outside with temps to be in the 50″s, I will be wearing black tights. I tried on 15 dresees and loved one of them. I wasnt going to try this one on as it looked frumpy on the hanger but my friend said,,,,shit whats one more…LOL. This one fit like a glove. Nails are red!!!!
Have a good time with OM…. TTYL
Kim e, That’s my feeling too – I cannot stand looking at our listening to that little puckered snide mouth of his. It looks like an asshole on an asshole.
The dress sounds great – nice of them to request black, as the biggest problem with weddings is what to wear, especially during the day. I already said safe travels and have fun but will double that. Look forward to hearing what you remember when you get back. xo
Dear diary (aka Kim e), I know you are hidden in a drawer somewhere but I just wanted to report that today I had 3 private LinkedIn visits (or is it the same 4, but then where is the 4th?) along with yet another fake FB friend request. I now have two clean cut handsome men waiting for me. Funny how they are all so generic, just like MRN. Yours, Alone (except for narcsite) in the Narc Wilderness
P.S. I feel like MRN is reaching out to keep me from contacting OM. Do you think he can read my mind?
SMH, Going to combine all the last couple of posts here into one.
I am back from the wedding. It was wonderful. Lots of laughs. Lots of food. Really cold in morning and after sun went down…..20’s and 30’s. And as all activities were based around the outdoors, the layers of clothes went on. But after a drink or 6 and a joint or 4….who cared. I am going to look up how legalized pot has effected the liquor industries in those communities. I know there was alot of booze consumed at the wedding but there was a lot left over also.
I did receive a strange call on Friday but as I was not here to see it come in, I did not know about it until today. I do not put on my out of office on my phone just my emails so if it was him, he thinks I saw it. SURPRISE!!! No message either.
As long as I was busy while gone, N was not really on my mind. Once home, I was wiped out and slept most of yesterday. I did go to the icky parking lot this morning and will continue to do so. Just wish the dead feeling inside me would go away. Kinda want to cry today. Guess it is going to take time as my NC has not been that long…..even tho sometimes it feels like a lifetime.
I debated about even coming here at all when I got back. I read a lttle and thought I really do not want to be reminded right now. I need it to be a different life in a different world.
Still in the paranoid stage of looking for hoovers and then thinking oh no he is done with me…forget about it. And then back to being paranoid again. I just really dont even want to talk to anyone. Co-workers of course ask about the wedding, I say as little as possible. I have thought about unblocking but have not.
So….enough of my self pity party, did you contact OM? AND?????? What happened?????
Interesting about LI. & FB.
I always said my N knew where I was going to be as he always just appeared. HG says they are not mind readers but I am not sure I beleive that. Intuition is one thing but I find it strange of all the stories here on NS that people say, I had just started to date someone and my N reappered….like he knew.
What else have I missed? I did meet Noel on Thursday night at the dinner and he was yummy. Kept me occpied for the night and on and off the rest of the trip. A loser in his own right….not a N….just an adorable loser that is good friends with my son. Why all of a sudden am I attracting men 25 years younger than me>>>>>>>>scarey!
Kim e, Happy to see you back. I have not actually been on here much because I am traveling too and have a poor internet connection where I am (and no cell phone service to speak of, no mobile data either, so pretty much cut off).
It sounds like you had a wonderful time at the wedding, complete with the young and lusty Noel. Often coming home again after such a heady experience is a let down anyway, narc or no narc. So give yourself some time to get used to your ‘real’ life again. Don’t talk to anyone if you don’t feel like it. It is fine to be in your own head for awhile, as long as you come out of it. Just think about the fun you had rather than narc and maybe start planning another getaway or just going out after work or whatever. Things will normalize and be okay. You were doing really well before you left, which is again why I think it’s about getting back into your normal routine after such a great trip, rather than about narc per se. I think it’s good that there might have been a call from him that you did not see and of course did not respond to. It will happen again, of course, but soon it will not affect you at all. I haven’t checked LinkedIn lately but I do have another strange friend request on FB, or maybe that was the last one. I don’t even think about it much anymore.
Seeing OM tomorrow night. I almost feel like I should not have contacted him because as soon as I did, the same stuff started up again. He is very compulsive – no filters – and doesn’t ‘hear’ me. I know he sounds like a narc, but he isn’t. Just a huge romantic whereas I am not. I realized that this is one reason I got so attached to MRN – his lack of emotions was very unthreatening to me. It made me feel calm whereas with OM, I just want to push him away. Attachment issues – I am an avoidant and OM will suffocate me. I will then hurt him. That is what I am going to tell him. He cannot moderate and I cannot relax around him due to his inability to emotionally regulate himself. We are not made for each other!! My problem with MRN was not his lack of emotions, really. That part was very calming and he was interested enough in my life and in me. It was more his inconsistency (intermittent reinforcement) that caused my anxiety. OM is consistent but consistently over the top. That won’t work for me either. So that was a bit of a breakthrough – why I glommed on to MRN and OM makes my walls go up.
Anyway, I am very tired and going to sleep now. I hope your afternoon and evening were better than your morning. It does take time but you are doing things right and really well. Everything you are experiencing is normal for a narc entanglement. I know you are ambivalent about coming here to narcsite, but maybe that is what has helped you to stay NC for how many weeks now? At least six, right? That’s very good! Hugs.
SMH,
Not sure what is going on but I am having a tearful purge day. Not an issue when sitting on my couch but not comfortable at work. I have been holding in my feelings for so long now just so people stay away from me. Fear of attracting other N’s? Getting back into a routine is awful. I feel so under water. Not just at work, or on train, or at home. Everywhere.
I amhaving a really hard time with the site also. I sign up for replies so we can keep in touch but the other posts make me very sad. Maybe it is just part of the ET purge that I was not expecting.
Give OM a break. Dont crush him because you look at things the opposite way. Are you over compensating for MRN? Or have you alsways been like that. Maybe you should not see him again. I knew that you werent thrilled with him but had no idea he effected you so negatively. Just eat, talk and relax. Then say thanks have a nice life!!!!! No flogging needed. You dont have to get involved with him. Just 2 people getting together. But I do have to ask….was he surprised to hear from you?
It has been 8 weeks…but who is counting.
Kim e, an ET purge is fine as long as you do not sink into a depression. Give yourself a few days deadline and if it doesn’t pass, maybe it is time for a therapist? You are really high and then really low so keep an eye on yourself. I went to a therapist on and off before, during and after my time with MRN. Haven’t been in over a year but it was really helpful, even though she didn’t diagnose the problem properly.
You might attract other Ns but you will be able to recognize them. Last fall I dated another N. I even accused him of triangulating me with his daughter, future faking, and all the rest. He was a different kind of N than MRN and I didn’t stick around long enough to find out which kind, but it did happen. You just have to be prepared for it and take everything very slowly for awhile. Also, self-isolation is pretty normal after an N relationship. I did the same for months. That will change when you are ready. You are just emotionally exhausted.
How do you get narcsite notifications? I follow up only on particular posts and then the notifications go into my email, where I can see “my” conversations. If I am short on time or don’t want to stay on the site long, I respond to those and catch up with the rest later. It is pretty easy that way to only see what you need/want to see at the moment. I truly believe that narcsite stopped me many times from breaking NC and got me through the worst of it. I never would have made it without HG and the people here. But it would also trigger me occasionally, so I definitely see how it can be both a blessing and a curse.
I think I have always been an avoidant but there might be a bit of over-compensating going on too. I didn’t know anything about attachment theory until I was splitting up with my ExH a few years ago so I wasn’t aware of it in past relationships. It confused me with MRN because I am very independent and pretty undemanding. I like to be alone and I have a lot of things that occupy me. I am never bored. I hardly ever cry and I am usually in a good mood. I knew it wasn’t MRN’s emotional distance that really bothered me. It was more the picking up and putting down. I like things to be consistent so that I can go about my business without worrying about my relationship, but his behavior (rather than his emotional makeup) made me have to focus on the relationship and question myself all the time. It was very frustrating because in some ways we were really compatible.
I don’t know if OM was surprised to hear from me. Funny but after I sent the email, I didn’t hear back until the next day. The evening of the day I sent it I was with a male friend. I said that I had not heard from OM and he was probably obsessing about someone else. My male friend said no, that he was contemplating how to respond to me, and he was right. But since then, OM’s emails have gotten more and more frequent and he keeps expanding on our possible activities, whereas the only thing I mentioned is having a drink. He’s lonely but I am not and don’t want to be responsible for healing someone else’s loneliness. Does that make me a bad person?
I won’t hurt him or maybe I will because is there any way that I won’t? I’ll just say we really are not cut out for each other. I do like him as a person – just not as an intimate partner. I wouldn’t be the first woman to tell him that. He’s been rejected numerous times due to the same problem, so he needs to work on it if he wants to have a relationship with anyone.
But who knows – maybe one of us will have suddenly changed! (jk)
8 weeks is awesome! This is just a minor blip. It will quickly turn into 12 weeks and soon you can stop counting (I have to think hard now about how many months it has been).
I will look for you later but will understand if you take a break. Hugs!
Kim e, reporting back that it went well with OM. Much more relaxed, both of us able to be open and honest, no resentment, no hurt. We hung out for four hours. He’s good to talk to and I like his company. Just don’t want to get emotionally involved and he is not a ‘fling’ type, so that leaves a friendship (he only compulsively touched me once, to stroke my hair). He said it was not him on my LinkedIn. He doesn’t even know how to use it. Makes sense that he wouldn’t, given his profession and that he is (early) retired now. So that leaves only one possibility – MRN. Oh well. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Hope you had a bearable evening and have some good plans for the weekend. xo
SMH, Not my circus, not my monkeys……that was my saying the whole weekend at the wedding. Someone would ask me about how to set soemthing up or comment on how they thought it should be done and that statment would come out of my mouth. !!!!!
Stroking your hair gave me goosebumps……and not in a good way. that creeped me out. REALLY!!!????
Otherwise sounds like you had a good time which I am glad to hear.
I got another call yesterday. Just looked at it ring…………..thought about picking it up and saying HI W!!!!!! LOL……that would be interesting….LOL HHHMMMMMM
Just a thought.
Happy Friday. Sleeping late tomorrow. Bad weather for Saturday. Binge watching something,, cooking in the crock pot and laundry. Sunday will be nice out and I am going to go to a Fall craft thing.
Yeah, really, Kim e. He’s very tactile so I think it is hard for him NOT to touch me. It was brief, though, so I did not react. To be honest, he could probably seduce me if he went about it in the right way but I think I intimidate him, so that’s a bit of a turn off for me. He also suffers from melancholia (he says – I say depression). Not so fun! I told him my attachment theory regarding MRN and him, and he got it. He’s smart and self-aware, just cannot really control a lot of things about himself. He’s got some childhood issues (don’t we all) as well as a dead wife, so he has had a lot happen to him. I am not interested in ‘saving’ anyone but someone else will be and he will find a partner.
Sounds like a chill enough weekend. Bad weather is good because you don’t have to feel that it is wrong to stay indoors or even in bed. I just got back from a week’s travel but have neighborhood stuff this weekend and people depending on me. I already had a date this week so hey ho! My favorite night to stay in is Saturday because I can sleep in knowing that I won’t have any emails on Sunday! I can peruse narcsite instead. Been awhile since I’ve been able to do that.
Speaking of getting another call (do NOT answer Miss Naughty), I have another fake FB friend request. There are three of them in my notifications now. Narcs must buy them or something because there is no way that someone could make these themselves. Me accepting one of those would be like you answering the phone. Just don’t do it. Not your circus, not your monkeys! xo
SMH,
Well, OM down. Moving on to the next….LOL. You vamp you!!!!! Any new info regarding the perverted neighbor?
No emails on Sunday? Care to elaborate pleeze?
My weekend truned out to be very bizzarre. I intended to go to the fall craft thing with my friend late afternoon/early evening. I had a sports doctor/chiropractor appt in the morning as my right arm is messed up. I have never been to a chiro before but was referred by the guy that owns the gym I go to. I get to the doctor office and hear the normal first appt blah blah blah. They do some tests. The doctor is Japanese and mixed some “energy flows” into the consultation. I lay down and he says he is going to adjust my neck. He warns me about the POP sound it will make and explains what causes it. He adjusts, it POPS, I immediately start crying. I can not control it. It did not hurt. It kinda scared me but this crying is uncontrollable. Tears just rushing out of my eyes. (This also happened to me within 24 hours of my first Reiki treatment) He tells me it is from me holding on to “bad stuff” for so long. I finally stop the tears and get in my car. The tears just start again. I have no control but I need to be able to drive so I force myslef to stop. As soon as I pull into the garage and shut the door, the tears start again for 1.5 hours!!!!!! At this point in time I have a headache. This went on and off into the night. My friend called and we decided that next weekend would be better.
Sunday comes around and it is a beautiful day. I opened the windows and cleaned, cooked, and took a nap. At 6:08 I get a call from a number I do not recognize. I do not answer. There is no message. I google it and it comes up with a bunch of BS answers but does not point to anyone specifically. Hello Mr. Monkey….???????? LOL
Kim e,
Meaning I won’t have any work emails on Sunday. I had two remote calls this morning and then fell asleep for three hours. Married work gigolo was on the first call. Last week he made a joke because I wouldn’t let them see me but this week I’d gotten up early and managed to get ready so video was on. He does not read his emails so something I had spent quite some time thinking through he wasn’t even aware of. His laissez faire approach can drive me nuts. I beg – for my own sanity please formalize this so I know my workload going forward! It is reminding me of my conflicts with MRN over the lack of planning – seems to more be an excuse to keep me engaged/string me along – MWG keeps drawing me further and further into the core planning group just like MRN drew me into the relationship.
Maybe MWG is a narc too and I need a consultation because I have to learn how to manage this. I end up flaming at the admin person instead, though once I did talk to MWG about it. But just like MRN it doesn’t matter what I say. Instead, the same shit keeps happening. I just signed on to another project with him. I could leave it all at any moment and be fine, but I could also have left MRN at any moment and been fine. What keeps me from doing that?? In this case, the work itself is the hook – it is MWG’s way of keeping me close and getting fuel. I think I was looking at it wrong before – I was thinking that the narc relationship would be an intimate one, so I was managing that. But it is actually a non-intimate one that revolves around my commitment to the work.
I spent several hours yesterday with neighbor guy. We had a meeting and then were supposed to split up, with his wife and someone else doing one activity, and me and him another – it made sense – it was about letting her go do her thing, and we would take their kids because our activity was outdoors. But she came with us and I’m like, weren’t you supposed to go do X? Some weird excuse but there we were – three adults with their kids. I left because it was raining anyway and we couldn’t do what we’d planned. Earlier in the week I’d had an argument with her because she made a unilateral decision that meant more work for me and contradicted what she had said a few weeks ago. So, now I am beginning to see that he is childish and she is controlling but I don’t know how much of that is because of what allegedly happened vs how they are anyway. NOT MY CIRCUS, THANKFULLY! You know, things could be a lot worse when you see that sort of situation.
Pt – well, shall I make you laugh? I have been to pt and chiro for my lower back (problems disappeared after I started strength training, so this was all years ago now). PT – I get this Mormon or Mennonite guy or something like that. I have to spread my legs, etc and suddenly I notice he has a hard on. He was so embarrassed – I think from then on I insisted on having a woman. A few years later I go to chiro for sciatica. The guy saved my life, actually. I was crying in his office when I arrived. All very professional until a few months in, when he starts getting way too close and moving my body in ways that made me uncomfortable. Done with that too. From now on, no male practitioner of any sort of medicine is allowed anywhere near any part of my body except if they are gay and except for my upper arm (blood pressure, vaccinations, etc.)
All joking aside, I do think your guy is right about the crying and the bad stuff. The pop was just another aspect of that. Crying gets the toxins out – I just get angry instead of crying. Years ago I cried over someone so much that I vowed I would never cry again (he ended up in jail anyway). I never therefore cried about MRN until post-escape, and that was out of frustration and led to more anger, because once he made me cry, all bets were off. I told Matrinarc to fuck off three times in succession last week, my voice getting louder and louder each time. When I told OM this, he said ‘good for you’! (He had a narc father so he gets it.) So cry away or get angry – both work! – but do be careful of those male chiropractors!!
As for LI views, I have no idea how they keep track of those things. Sometimes it tells me I have, say, 14, and then when I look, there are only 11 and they don’t show me all of them anyway because I do not pay for the service. When MRN has been on there, there is a number with ‘private’ views. Went from 0 for a long time to 4 right after I noticed the IG dynamic changing to 3 last week. What happened to the other one? No idea. Or was it 3 more on top of the 4? Again, no idea.
Could be Mr Monkey on the phone but maybe not. Still, it’s thought fuel for him so he wins!! I got a weird call today too but then realized it had come through Google Voice which I put on my phone but never gave to anyone. It was a spam number. So bye bye GV because I have never used it and I am already getting spammed? I’ll just get another number if I need it 🙂
How was your day at work after your weekend purge? I hope you felt better about things and had some laughs. And now you have some plans for next weekend! Always an upside!
SMH. Freaking out here. As I was walking to the train tonight as I was approaching a corner I looked to the right to see if traffic was coming. I saw a guy on the opposite corner just staring at me. Built like my N. Holding his backpack like my N. I stood there staring trying to figure out if it was him. This guy had a beard. I had never seen N with a beard. He was wearing a baseball cap. Never saw N with a bb cap. Always when it got cold a knit hat.
I forced myself to look away in case it was him
I got stopped at the light. He would have crossed right to be by me. Others crossed and surrounded me but I never saw him. He could have stayed on the corner and never crossed or crossed and stood behind me. I never looked back. Even once I cleared the intersection. Even when I got in the station.
If it was him he left work 30 minutes early.
Couple reasons I think it was him
1. He just stared at me. The beard made him appear different but as soon as I spotted him my brain said “W”
2.as text was our only form of communication he is still blocked
3 I have not been answering those weird calls
4. He can’t find my car
Now I am paranoid he is on the train I am on. Won’t do him any good as I get off at the new stop BUT if he figures out that I am now at the new station he could follow me in the morning
SHIT. Is it just my mind? My ET is at the stage we’re I normally would unblock him and it has been nagging at me yesterday and today. But LT won out
Thoughts?
I just know it was him……..that gut feeling appeared instantly when I saw him
Use evidence.
1. Built like the N. So are many men.
2. Held his backpack like the N. how many different ways can one hold a backpack – not many, therefore this could apply to many people.
3. He has a beard. The N does not. True, he may have grown one, but unlikely.
4. He was wearing a BB cap. The N does not. True, he may have obtained one, but usually does not.
Logical analysis suggests that was not him.
HG
Ok. I will give logic 50% on this. But not going to question it. Or go rounds with you. Can’t do anything about it anyway if it was him
I really am surprised that you didn’t tell me that if it was him just ignore him
I did not need to, you walked away.
What I did was give you an evidential breakdown to prevent you from ruminating further on it.
HG, I agree that logic suggests it wasn’t him but I also think the anxiety/ET that makes Kim e think it was him needs to be addressed by someone who has been there!
Kim e, you are just on high alert – your senses are all haywire. I went through that a few times, once in the middle of NYC, where he used to come on business (maybe still does, no idea). My gut also told me it was him and I stopped dead in my tracks, but it was not him, just someone who looked like him. I also don’t think a mid-ranger would jump through such hoops as you describe. Remember they are very passive and low energy when it comes to hoovers. The phone calls I can see because he doesn’t really have to lift a finger, but not a new disguise. So don’t worry about it. If he appears in front of you, then you can worry (well, really, don’t worry – come here if that happens). In reality he is a person, not a ghost or a CIA agent, though I know it feels like they are!!
SMH,
Thanks for the words. I did not think it was a disguise. Just that since I had seen him he had let his beard grow and bought a bb hat. He is too vain to do that. I mentioned the backpack. 98.6% of people carry their backpacks completely on their back. He carries his slung over his right shoulder. Also since he is inthe army, he stands ramrod straight. It really would not have taken any “effort” other than making an excuse to leave work early. The way our buildings are he could walk out his, stand there, watch me leave mine to see which route I was going to take to the station and alter his to run into me. He has done that numerous times before.
I am not convinced that it was NOT him. I almost parked at the old train lot today (ET talking to me) but in the long run I did not. I keep telling myself “he did not disengage from you. You keep leaving him because nothing is going to change. This was your decision…not his”. Guess LT is creeping up on ET….but still hurts like hell.
Exactly, Kim e. You made the decision, not him. I went through the same turmoil because MRN never disengaged either. I much prefer to be broken up with because then I don’t have to deal with any guilt. Look what I did with OM – same thing in many ways except he is not a narc so there is honesty, reason and closure.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter if it was him or was not him. You do not want him because perhaps he does things like disguise himself to follow you. Who does that??!! Do not let him or thoughts of him push you off your path, both your work commute and your wider path in life!
Kim,
Just have a sec right now…but seeing you detail weird calls you keep receiving on this thread several times, I keep meaning to mention…remember that it’s big political fundraising time in the U.S. right now…practically everyone I know (myself included) are getting the type of calls you mentioned, down to the odd numbers & no answer/huge pause & hang-ups when you pick up (often the nature of robo dialing — or calling centers/individual campaign fundraising that drop one call for another).
I agree with HG’s stone-cold logic on “The Bearded Backpacker”…possible – yes, but seems pretty unlikely. Carry on with confidence in your NC, woman💜
Well stated, CIF.
Thank you for your very giving words, HG. I do appreciate what I’ve learned from you – much thanks to you.
One of the best qualities of an Empath is their kindness/compassion, and I have to say, it’s very hard for me to see it being taken advantage of, like with how kind MP is, which is why she was being so gracious & generous to the person on this thread, who was playacting (as were other dear Empaths, being kind to the fraudster)…speaking for myself, I have to say I don’t especially like being able to see it when someone is up to no good like this — a fake persona lying to very good people. But it is what it is — I can’t pretend otherwise. I’ve noticed I will speak up *for* someone else (like MP, who’s a gem), as it actually pains me to see the other person’s treachery, so I will say something – but then I will let it go, as everyone has to decide for themselves.
However, if the fake persona is doing things *to* or about me, as in specific trait acquisition/mirroring of me (which this person on this thread has done, quite a lot/coming & going on the site & reinventing themselves) — I will just ignore it. I do that partly because I know who I am, so if someone is going to mirror me & pick out some of my traits & play a game of pretend…well, it’s irritating to know/see that they are lying like that, as a kind of cheap imitation of another very real human being — but I also feel like, “Oh, who really cares? I know who I am — so copy me, whatever.” I mean, you’ll kind of have your hands full with that – I’m not that simple! LOL.
Who can BE another Empath? Nobody. We’re too complex/multi-faceted. We’re all unique, which is a very beautiful thing.
Thank you, HG…and everyone kindly ignore the more lengthy reply to HG, in a separate post on this thread (which I *think* will show up here…it was meant to be a reply on another thread, so I have reposted it to the correct thread — after I saw my mistake).
You know me, always up on all this tech stuff!🥴
SMH,
Is it realy possible that MWG is a MRN? Sometimes they are so subtle and patient at sucking us in that we dont know. My N used to always tell me “I am very patient. I have nothing but time”. He forgot to add and 800 women…….:-(
The crying just kinda freaked me because I did not expect it from a chiro appt. My reiki treatments yes but I have not really had any reaction to them as of late so I stopped getting them. Maybe need to find a different reiki master as I know my energies are F’d up and I should see some type of reaction.
LOL…this morning my LI views went down another 1. I am losing fans as I type. I do pay for the premium and it still doesnt show me. But I really dont care either.
GV? is that for conferecne calls? My sons and I use Hangouts whcih is thru google for text messages but I never heard of GV.
Worked out Monday night and felt good afterwards. Shoulder/arm issue hurt like hell Tuesday so I too the day off from working out. Working out again tonight and tomorrow. I am committed to 3 nights a week. I would go more but the weight lifting that I really enjoyis only 2 nights so I fill in the other with cardio stuff which is ok but not my favorite.
I hate this feeling of just standing still. Like I am not making any progress in my life. I am still stuck between wanting to hear from N and scared to death (as shown yesterday) that I will. Thinking that it might take me 4 months or longer to get the ET to where I just dont care any more is killing me. I am still in the I do miss him phase but know that it is pointless.
Well work just went from nothing going on to 31 emails that need looking at.
TTYL and thanks again for the pep talk.
Kim e, MWG might be both. He is certainly a womanizer, which I have written about previously – probably before we ‘met.’ He gave me special treatment when we were traveling together this summer, but then I slipped money under his office door so things did not escalate (I owed him for drinks and he wanted me to take him out to pay him back). He never mentioned receiving it. Wounded? He likes having lots of women around – he mentors very young ones as well as me, which looks bad to my mind (the young ones). Narc or just your run of the mill womanizer?? Both? Idk.
Good to know you pay for LI and it doesn’t show you anyway! Haha. I will never pay now!
GV – my son uses it so that his grandmother can call him on a US number and it routes to him overseas (he’s in Europe). I don’t know what other use it would have except if you don’t want someone to have your real number. You use it like Skype, I guess (you can also get a Skype number that routes to your own phone). Hangouts is embedded in Gmail but GV is a separate app. It is trying to get at my phone contacts and I won’t let it, so it won’t show me who’s calling me (two more today). I keep forgetting to just remove it.
You are working out a lot and you are not standing still, either literally or figuratively. You have some shit to get through is all, and things will normalize and other stuff will start happening and your mood will change. You have already gone two months. The fact that the possibility of seeing N is making you so anxious is all the proof you need that you don’t want to see him! He is not healthy for you.
SMH,
I am telling you. I am amazed at how “bonded”, “attached” whatever the word is to my N I still am. I am telling you that sighting (?) real or imagined completely screwed me up. Last night I decided I was not going to unblock but I was going to move back to the old parking lot. He wont look for me as I am not important…just 1 of may IPSS’s (DLS or not) that he can chose from. as I went to sleep I had full intention of going to the old lot. Kept waking up thruout the night thinking about this parking spot. REALLY?????? This is the biggest choice I need to make in my life now? When I got up this morning, I still intended on going to the old spot. As I walked out the door, I went to the new spot. I guess my ET is calming down as I keep saying everytime I think of unblcoking him, WHY? It will just go back to the way it was…..1 of many. I have said it before, I dont mind being in a 3rd party situation but a 5th or 6th party is too much.
Not saying I am anywhere near safe from my ET. If he does hoover….a hoover where I really know it is him electronically or physically……not certain what my response at this time would be. To be honest, I think my trait of wanting to say stuff to him about why I cant get involved again would take over and I would get involved again…..LOL But sa la vie.
Thanks for being a sounding board.
You too Mr. HG…stalked to the Empaths!!!!
I have skype from when my kids where deployed with the Army. We also use it on Christmas to open rpesent with all of us on it. One is in Seattle and the other is in California. Nice to at least see their faces for the holiday.
Have you heard from OM at all? I am assuming that you just left it with “it’s been nice. Have a nice life.”.
I feel a vegging time coming on. The weather is getting cold here and the older I get the more I hate the cold.
Looking forward to my next chiro appointment on Halloween. I could use a good cry…………….LOL
Goin gto go hang out on IG now and see what kind of trouble I can get into………….
Kim e,
Good for you for getting through the phantasma and the parking lot dilemma. It is amazing how one little thing can take up so much head space.
Listen, not agreeing to be the 5th or 6th is exactly why I told MRN that if we were to have an affair, I had to be the only IPSS. That was one of my conditions (mind you this was 10 months after we had first gotten together and a few months after I learned of IPPS). If I found out there were other IPSSs I would have killed him. Who knows really but I don’t think he had real life time for anyone else (I mostly knew where he was because of IG), and how many women would have agreed to an affair? Most women would not. We have to remember that we are not representative of the general population.
Eventually, I began to be uncomfortable with being IPSS too. Ewww, basically. That is one reason I told him (pre finding HG) that he had to be out of his marriage and alone if he wanted to be in contact with me (just contact – our relationship would be decided by both of us). I don’t normally share and I don’t think anyone has ever cheated on me except maybe during the demise of a relationship when we weren’t sleeping together anyway. So keep that thought in mind. It helps with ET to remember that they are man-whores.
No word from OM and I don’t remember how we left it. I don’t think I told him not to contact me but nor have I thought about him much!
That’s cute about Xmas. I make mine come to wherever I am, even if I have to pay for the plane ticket. I can’t get mine to use Skype normally anyway – it’s WhatsApp only.
Speaking of Skype, I think I just fell in love over Skype. lol. I had to Skype with this guy who wants to rent my apartment and we talked forever! Neither of us wanted to hang up. He was super intelligent, cute, funny and age appropriate (and divorced). But he is half a world away and I won’t meet him anyway, ESPECIALLY if he does rent my apartment because I’ll be gone. How funny is that? 🙂 Talk about being avoidant!! I am so good at it!
Hope your day has been hoover-free! It’s beautiful here and I am going out now to get some fresh air and sunshine.
SMH,
So knowing what you do now, do you believe you were the only IPSS? We might not be representative of the general population (we are special) BUT they only chose special people so the general population has no bearing here. OR do you mean that we are different because we will have affairs? Sounds so dirty…LOL Dirty empaths…maybe that should be my next tattoo.
As far as the parking situation goes…my town is conspiring against me. So they redid that lot a couple weeks ago. Use to be 2.00 a day to park in the lot…same as my old lot. Well now I guess they figured out they have to pay for the new lot and are raising it to TEN DOLLARS a day starting 12/1/19 thru 12/31/2022. WTF!!!! So that means instead of paying $5.00 a week to park, I will have to pay $50.00. I refuse to do that. Sorry. I am just going to have to suck it up and hide my car in the old lot. Maybe by 12/1 my car will have been gone long enough and he wont even consider looking for me there. Shit…LOL….maybe I will park in his old spot that he parked in every day until he moved to the other die to be with the new CIPSS. OR I will just bill him monthly to pay the difference in the parking bill. GGGGRRRRRR
Am I going to have to ban you from all forms of communication???!!!! Love over skype??? (HG dont listen to this part) Just remember the Long Distant Empath. Dont have to be in proximate to be sucked in. BUT tell me more……Was it phone skype? Or I can see you skype? Details lady.
Good day. I can feel the old me coming back in waves. He is still there in my mind but not as bad. No more sightings either. Fingers crossed he stays busy elsewhere for a long time (u interested? I could hook you up) and I can peacefully slink away.
Nails this weekend, movies and pizza. But the weather is turning…………I hate it.
Talk later. Stay out of trouble please. Since I dont know where or who you are, bail is kinda hard. But if I did have that info, bail would be right there!!!!!
Aww Kim e, Thank you for the bail offer. That is the mark of a true friend, plus you know me so well :).
Skype was video. He did try to flatter me, which threw me off a bit. Probably another narc. Ho hum.
What movie are you seeing?
I totally understand about the weather. New York is gorgeous in the fall but Chicago only has two very extreme seasons, both horrible!
I meant different in the sense of having affairs but yes I guess being empaths too. I don’t really have a sense of what % of the pop is ‘normal’ but I suspect it is the highest percent? (HG?) For the record, I don’t think DEs of any stripe have anything on narcs.
Of course MRN lied about his marital status so I did not know about IPPS for 8 months (I was away for 5 of those). I suspected but did not know. I got really stoned one night while I was away and got extremely obsessive, paranoid and angry (why I do not smoke pot). A male friend told me I was being a suspicious bitch, that MRN was just a workaholic (which he was) but it turned out I was right. Maybe if I smoke pot again, I will have better insights, including about whether there were any other IPSS. I don’t think there were irl during the affair part, but who knows what he was doing online.
I am 99% certain there was one post-escape, which is one reason I told IPPS. I will tell you why I think so if you are curious about it.
Sometimes I think the whole relationship was about me getting back at him for lying to me – I was just biding my time, collecting evidence, gathering strength, and waiting for the opportunity to kick him in the balls and run away.
As for the p lot, I think by the time you have to move back to the old lot ($10 a day is extortionate), your ET will be lower. When/if you run into him, just keep ‘ewww man whore’ in your head. Honestly, I do not know what would happen if I lived in the same place as MRN. I’d be nervous too, I know, but hopefully I would also try to look at it as another step in the process. I think HG has a post on this – what to do/how to act if you have to be around the narc. Sweetest Perfection also ran into hers (if I am remembering correctly) and handled it very well. I am sure you will too – it might be more the anticipation than the reality that is throwing you off?
SMH: by allusion, yes I did run into him but not in our city, which is ironic. Here I haven’t because I have “spies” who look at his Facebook for me to let me know if he’s in town and where so that I can avoid him. So far it has worked. I had to fight my ET a couple of times when I knew he was here because my ET wanted to run into him, but Logic won. What I do in those cases, as HG taught has, is to get distracted with something immediately. If I’m thinking about going to the library to possibly run into him, I put on my sport clothes and go run instead, when I’m done I have already abandoned that thought. If I’m driving and thinking of passing by his workplace, I suddenly take another route and end up in a store buying some clothes. It’s all about aborting ET’s mission.
Excellent advice, SP. I hope Kim e can distract herself when she is fighting ET like that. Also a very good description of what happened when you did run into him. I too stiffened up the last time I saw MRN. I think I had a conversation about those hugs with you!! He did it on two occasions – both when I had escaped. Both times I was incredulous, especially the last time as I had really ripped into him. But I guess it is all about control and coming out on top. He never hugged me like that when we were in the Formal Relationship!
SMH and SP,
I have a recurring fantasy that I run into N and he is with a female that is not his wife. I say Hi W. Then extend my hand to the female and say “Hi. You must be _____. It is so nice to meet you. I have heard so much about you.” Then excuse myself.
Makes me wake with a smile every time.
Thanks for the ideas to get ET under control. My hardest time is Sunday and Sunday nights. Must be the anticipation of Monday since that to me is the highest place and time for me to see him or be hoovered. My LT yells at my ET all the time.
I know I got this….it is still very early in NC even tho it seems like forever.
That’s pretty funny, Kim e. You got it!
SMH….
My new motto:
Grant me the serenity to accpet the people I cannot change.
The courgare to change direction when I see them coming.
And the wisdom to not try to smack some snese into them when I can’t avoid them.
Kim e, Yep. My blood pressure just rose after a conversation with Matrinarc. Smack down, blame game. She calls me ‘sweetie.’ lol. I’m like, you treat me like a piece of shit on the bottom of your shoe except when you need something, then I am ‘sweetie.’ So predictable.
The week I saw OTT, Matrinarc told me to take two pieces of furniture. She lives hours away and it is a pain and expensive to get there but I was already there (bus), being a dutiful daughter. The plan was that I would use her car, which she can’t drive because she can’t walk, to get the things home, bring the car back the following week and take the bus home. I told the person I was staying with that I was pretty sure it would not work out only because I know what Matrinarc is like. Sure enough, at the last minute, Matrinarc decides that she ‘needs’ the car for an appointment around the corner a few days away, so I cannot take it. Can’t you take a $5 cab ride? Safer that way. Mumbles some reason why she cannot, and anyway it is her car, not mine. OK, no problem!! So I get on the bus without the things and it takes me four hours to get home. Now she calls about what I did not take – come up by bus, get the car, take the things, bring the car back, return home on the bus. Sorry, Matrinarc! I do not care about those things any longer. I do not want them. It is not worth my time or the cost or the aggro I have to go through with you to get them.
She also wants me to ‘hold her hand’ while she is moved around the corner in the same building. Sorry, Matrinarc, I have plans the day you are being moved (true). But I didn’t know the day, she says. Neither did I, I say.
Oh and what did that rug in the storage unit look like, she asks. Well, I say, when I was there I offered to take a picture of it for you but you didn’t want me to go down there. So I do not know what it looks like.
That was literally a two minute conversation. It reminds me of what it would be like if MRN and I were to speak… trying to get a narc to see someone else’s point of view is impossible.
SMH…….you really should stop picking on that poor old lady. She gets confused and you are supposed to be helping her. You are so mean. She cant help it if plans change and screw up your entire world. It is not her fault that you did not take the picture even tho she did not want you to go down to the storage. It is her car and is probably better than any you ever had or will have.
I know this guy names HG that can probably help you with your issues…….he is on line. Look him up….
ROFLMAO….I crack myslef up and yes I typed it with a straight face.
Thank goodness my mother wasnt a narc…just your old run of the mill bitch. No love lost on her. Come to think of it….MAYBE she was a N!!!! I am gonna have to think on this.
Kim e,
You crack me up too! Have a think on it because I had no idea my mother was a narc until I got here. I also used to think she was just a bitch. Now I tell everyone, including family members, that she’s a narc and I analyze her. It has been even more difficult since my sister passed away because my sister – who also hated my mother – dealt with it better than I did and she was like a buffer for me. But hey ho, Matrinarc has lots of friends and help where she is, two faced as she is. I hope everyone up and down the corridor heard when I yelled at her the week that I was there.
I called her back today and said well if my sil will lend me her car, I can drive up there and get the stuff, but I cannot come the day you are moving, which is all she cared about. She has to have an operation so now I am waiting to hear about that and what will be required of me. But I still remember the time I had a severe asthma attack in front of her and she literally turned her head away and did not even ask how she could help. Of course she would deny it but she is really a gaslighter extraordinaire. Always has been. Now she tells me that she’s so old her brain is addled and I tell her, well, if I say something happened then it happened. OK? Makes sense to me but not to her. A few weeks ago she called me six times in a row. I called her back and she asked what *I* wanted, like she was all busy. I said ‘you called me six times.’ ‘No I didn’t.’ ‘Yes you did – it is on my phone that you called six times.’ She might not have realized it but if *I* say you called six times, then you called six times. Right?
Interestingly, she confessed a few weeks ago that she was a bad mother. She was crying about my sister and said ‘I didn’t have much of a relationship with my own mother’ ‘I did not know how to be a mother.’ WELL, LOOKEE HERE. I didn’t have much of a relationship with my mother either but my son turned out just fine. All the grandkids did. Always blaming someone else…
SMH,
I decided to not even start figuring out if my mom was a N. She is gone but with just the little bit of thinking I did about it, yes she was. Schuffled me and my brother off to our gparents to be raised, was married 5 times, never went any of my school stuff….blah blah blah. If I did go and see her in her later years…she was like 96 when she died, ……my limit was 2 days and I was GONE!!!! And that was strecthing it. Her husband thought she could do no wrong. BARF………
AAAHHHH family….that is an entire other subject…LOL
But you know there are still lessons to be learned, Kim e. The way we were socialized has a lot to do with getting ensnared in later life. Also, interacting with my mother, which sends my ET skyrocketing, clues me in as to what it would be like to interact with MRN. It is a good reminder. He crept into my head today while I was doing something really repetitious and boring for hours and hours. As soon as I was done he was gone, but I was nervous there for a minute that I was in the kind of headspace where I could have either been chatting with him or broken NC because I was bored and wanted some drama. I haven’t wanted drama for awhile – really since I escaped. But I can feel my need for it returning. Just don’t want it from my mother!!
SMH,
Later life ensnarement. I think about that a lot. I was 61. And from what I have heard his new “freind” ( not sure if they are still a thing) is OLD. That is exactly how my friend that knows how old I am described her when telling me about him and his new “Friend”. She is old…..I thought that strange.
HG, are older people a target more as becoming DLS since the N really has no intentions of leaving the IPPS? Is there a reason why older people would be targeted?
Kim e, Maybe yours just has a thing for older women? Mine didn’t. I was older just by a few years but look younger than him. The woman he tried to triangulate me with was two decades younger than him.
Kim e, I had dinner with a woman the other night (friend of a friend – he was there too) who had been married four times. I don’t feel so badly now :).
Oh, also, you were correct, the time I ran into him it was more the anticipation than the actual moment. I was extremely nervous prior to that because I knew I was going to see him, it was a relatively small venue for a work event and there was a high probability of seeing each other, as it happened. I didn’t feel a thing when it finally occurred, and he hugged me, but I was stiff. So you don’t faint, cry, or have a heart attack. Now you know he’s empty, so it’s not that bad. It also depends on the school of narc and the external conditions, mine is an UL, he was alone and I had male company so he tried to be friendly.
SMH….
Boring weekend. No movie except the one I rented and watched…It was good but at the moment it is slipping my mind.
And speaking of slipping…I am sure HG would say it broke NC……but I parked in the old lot today. Guess that last bit of ET is still alive and well. Since I have been to work, my LT has taken over, yelled at and humilitated my ET. I will go back to the new yucko lot until 12/1 and hope that my ET is way down by then and that the N has found his true love and run away with her to the land of forever happiness leasving behind the past!!!!!!
OK…well now that I have confessed on myself, this week holds nothing special. Working out, chiro, work…..blah blah blah. OH AND POSSIBLE SNOW.
SNow is one of the reason I hate the new lot. The old lot is across the street from where I live. The other is about a 10 – 15 minutes drive. Only good thing is it is at 0520 and the traffic is really light in the morning. Hope the bif snows hold out until after 12/1.
Once again we agree on getting the last word/reaction. Even if he gets fuel, I get my say and then can get my own closure. I know HG preaches that this is not a good thing and I do not plan on making it so that he can contact me but in a perfect world, if he does manage to get thru to me I would say my say and close to hole forever.
Not going to dwell on it but my ET is so high on Mondays. I know why and other then changing jobs and not coming downtown any longer, there is nothing I can do about it. I ahve no plans on doing either.
I agree with you 1000%……the anticipation and maybe a little bit of false hope, makes the thought of a hoover scary. I keep telling myslef, he can not contact you electronically and doesnt have the balls to reach out in person. So it is all in my head….as the entire thing has been.
Really wishing someone would come along to take my mind off him….keep me entertained.
TTYL
You do not need to have your say. This is ET.
You do not need to have your say. This is ET.
I know HG. Just an empath fantasy.
Kill that fantasy Kim, kill it with logic.
Party pooper.
What did you expect, I am a narcissistic psychopath or had you forgotten?
Some times…yes…I do forget. You are just the nice guy on the blog helping us get our lives back.
But then I read the stories of the Shieldmaiden and cringe for her remembering who you are
Either way…thanks HG for helping me…..stubborn thing that I am.
You are welcome.
Kim e, I totally get wanting to have your say/not having closure, etc. I wanted to have my say too, and I did, but that was before I found HG. Had I found HG in time, I would have handled things differently. In fact, after I had my say I was feeling really at peace with everything, but then the IGH came along and I got sucked back in – not as IPSS but as NISS, which was worse. In the end – the very end – I still think that MRN won because he THINKS he won. Yours will figure out a way to think he won no matter what you do. As HG says, the biggest wound is silence. Go for the silence. I wish I had instead of feeling that MRN deserved an answer and an explanation.
SMH……I thought that once you are IPSS you can never be NISS because the intimacy part is always there. YOU might have thought you were NISS but HE never did. He might have lead you to believe that but somewhere along the line……..he would suck you back into the sex part.
Last time I saw my N (and I might have told you this before so forgive me if I have) that I knew he did not do feelings but I did. And that sometimes mine get overwhelmed with him so I would disappear whenever I needed to get them straight again. Not sure what he thought of that speech…I got a kiss on the cheek…..He probably thought “thats nice. Youare mine til I say so”…….LOL
Correct.
Kim e, Yes, I do see that now and you are right. It doesn’t matter what we do/say. At the time, I thought I was trying to be a friend. He would often slip into sexual innuendo and I would leave the conversation because I really had a different mindset. When I was IPSS we would tease each other a lot – a lot of word play. As NISS (to my mind) it bothered me that he would twist everything I said.
I could have understood had he not been married because it would have been more like a normal breakup, where one person doesn’t want it. But he never acted like it bothered him when I would go NC, so I thought he would accept my decision with no problem. Like every other part of our relationship, however, our wires were crossed.
Your comments make the wounding thing make more sense too because to him I was still an IPSS.
Thank you for that insight!
SMH,💜
This post of yours helped me make sense of something. When I was wanting to (previously/not anymore) be a NISS with the narc, I was thinking I could bring about something positive (mainly for his family). I did come to understand that was emotional thinking…because like HG says, you can’t control a narc. The narc wasn’t going for my NISS appeasement, so it was never going to happen. What I did *not* understand was why he didn’t go for it, as I kept thinking of how it could be benefit him — from my perspective.
What finally hit me just now is that the narc himself told me the answer to that question. He said to me: “I have enough friends.” I realized his NISS people are all that positive, façade type fuel…but as his former IPPS, he wanted the intimacy that brings control (over me)…and also my negative fuel/challenge.
Not that I ever challenged him. I was docile, all the time.🤸♀️…half the time?…ok, once in awhile.
Congrats on your 18 months of NC. Impressive! I hope I get there, without further incident.
CIF, I hear you. For me I think the hardest part was losing someone I thought could be a friend (though I did not ask for the friendship – he ignored my boundaries and I let him do that). And no, it didn’t make sense to me either at the time. Why would you treat a friend that way?
I think to our minds taking the emotional pressure off is supposed to make things easier whereas for them it makes things harder because when ET is dialed down, so is the fuel, so the manipulations get more difficult (for them). What you wrote makes perfect sense in that light.
I was docile for awhile until that inadvertent wounding (again crossed wires because to him I was IP whereas to me I was NI) at which point I went a bit mad. The end was not pretty.
How long has it been for you now? I hope 18 months is in sight! Though I have to say that I still have my moments…
SMH,💜
Exactly 96 days! Recently on another thread with Kim, I gave 4 months timeframe, but then I went back in my narc journal for an exact count & saw/remembered he got through to me on one of my work places (via phone transfer call)…so I decided to take those NC days away from the total count. Maybe it doesn’t matter overall, but it matters to me, because I want to know the real number of days of cold, detached silence of NC. It motivates me, and it helps me to understand more…where I can correlate how I’m feeling & why, which can (in turn) help me speak/relate to others about their NC timeframe too.
I think I’ve finally made the work phone situation a solid NC zone, which took some doing, especially since I do not tell anyone about my narc situation, in RL. He also does not know where I live now, which is my biggest relief, and that took much more doing, to make private/secure. If that dam breaks, I’m not going to be Caroline-is-fine anymore…and I’d need to turn to HG, because it’d be too much for me to figure out.
You’re exactly right — we think of friendship like a release valve — and I think of friendship (in general) as a safe zone…why I would think for one moment he’d be a safe friend is way-wrong pride in my ability to “manage him.” That’s ET, for sure…for us empaths, friendship is a comfort/a joy/peaceful. But that’s because there’s TRUST. I do not trust him, so how would a fake friendship change that? He also knows he’s a narc, and he knows that I know he is…so that puts another mind-bending aspect to everything. It makes me more scared too…so him completely staying away is what I truly want.
I feel so much better not being in contact at all…even my guilt is way low now. I see HG is right — they have set roles for us…I am “former IPPS,” and that is the only way he sees me — and intimacy was the crux of his control. So it’s what it is. I accept it. I can’t control it. I can’t help him (still glad I tried, as it was closure for me). I can only get harmed now.
I don’t have moments of wanting to contact him, but I have moments of guilt, so I totally understand, SMH…so when we have those moments, we can come here, to back each other up. 💜It’s a beautiful thing.
Hugs to you, SMH…and to you too, Miss Kim. 🥰You’re really stretching yourself & doing NC great!💛💜🤍💙💚❤🧡
Hugs to you too, CIF! I ‘met’ Kim e through you and she is doing great! I also think you were the first person I interacted with on here but I realize now that you have been NC on and off all this time (through no fault of your own).
We were never whole people to them so changing roles is clearly not an option. We are still just collections of body parts with some fuel thrown in. They don’t see our full humanity because they do not see their own (no introspection). What we would want from a friendship, they could never give in the same way that what one would want from a Matrinarc (I have one of those too), one will never get.
There is still that damned fascination, which I imagine is harder to resist with a Greater than with a mid-ranger, and the guilt as you say. But we have HG for the fascination and once you recognize the guilt for the ET that it is, you can control it. I am so glad you see that as your ET lessens so do your feelings of guilt. That has been one of the biggest things I have learned from HG.
You are a month or so ahead of Kim e in your NC space. Kim e, use CIF’s experience to know where you will be in a month! And CIF, keep those safe zones secure. If he does break through one of them, you know what to do! xo
SMH and CIF,
Hi Ladies. Nice to see you both in one place. I am assuming that if all 3 of us were every in one place together the police would also be involved! 🙂 Yep, it is getting easier for me but the true test wil tomorrow as I treat every day as a new day and I never know what my ET will be doing that day. Literally every day at some pint in time, my ET says “unblock him….just see how long it takes him to text” and my LT says “shut up”. Also hoping my ET is way down for the trip back to the old parking lot in December where triggers galore live. BUT that is a long ways off. He might come back to me, profess his undying love and we will run off and get married. Then I wont have to worry about the parking.
Not gonna lie, ET still very high even tho I tease about it. I still miss “us”. But it is getting better. Thanks to you ladies listening to me whine (OK HG you too). My head is 1/2 way out of the lions mouth.
Love ya both. Peace, out!
Kim,
You know darn well if the police are involved, that’s *all* you & SMH (and it’s gonna be pretty WILD😂)…but yes, I’ll be there, bailing you out – of course I will.🤸♀️ And no, I can’t get you out that same night – LE will say you were both too bad for that – but first thing in the morn.
I understand, on you missing the “us.” Just remind yourself that the narc really only does ME, ME, ME…or him/himself & he.😛
Oh, & the Amazon package can’t be from him because…narcs don’t deliver!😂
The project manager has finally arrived🤸♀️ Stay strong, Kim! No turning back!
Kim e, You crack me up. Yes each day is a struggle. That is how my mood journal helped in the first months (well, during my six months NC before the final five month stretch, when I completely ditched it). I once asked MRN to please shoot me if I ever said I was getting married again. He must have gotten his wires crossed because shoot me he did, but he didn’t marry me (or profess his undying love). I am glad you are still at the new lot.
SMH,
Shot you? Literally?
Yes literally, Kim e! Of course not, silly (though I guess with narcs you never know). MRN wasn’t violent at all – not physically, anyway. My exHL was. He would have shot me had he had a gun but he was also easily intimidated.
Kim e, I just noticed your new avatar. ✨✨✨
SMH. Thanks for noticing 👀 my Sparkle.
Kim e, Sparkly r us.
SMH,
At this rate, I’ll have to subtract so many days that I’ll soon be asking: “Hey, Kim — what’s it like — up there at six months? I’m back to 12 days.” 😂
It’s truly sweet of you to let me off the hook…but one portion of it *is* my fault, as I didn’t “Know & Go”…instead, I thought it was worth seeing if he could make another set of changes, with family support & therapy. I really did want to help…so I tried. I have to live with myself, so I did what I can live with…I’m ok with that, but there’s now a price to be paid for awhile, for the risk I took.
I do find the Upper Echelon interesting. I have a certain mindset/discipline I keep with reading HG on-site, and it’s because I know it’s best for me…and if I ever interact with him (or I make a comment to him), I sometimes debrief myself (for lack of a better term) afterward. Sometimes it’s not at all necessary – it really depends. But then I keep my quiet, calm confidence in myself. That’s essential to my being on here.
Well, I’ve been waiting all day on a floor replacement/project manager guy (my hot water heater burst). He’s called me 3 times to say, “I’m on my way, honey.” I don’t mind being called “honey,” but I hope to God he’s not a narc. I’m beginning to think there are a lot of narcy contractors. Anyway, in the time he’s taken to come, I’ve changed my mind & decided on tile. 🤑 <not gonna lie~really looking for a reason to use that money emoji…but I *did* decide on tile!🤸♀️
CIF, Yes I remember the therapy and the brother saying you were going on holiday with narc. Right? All of that. I just didn’t realize how recent it was. Listen, if we had to restart our NC count with every misstep, I’d have to restart mine today because not only did he creep into my head while I was doing something boring, I looked at his kids’ and IPPS’ social media (though not what they usually use so there wasn’t much new – just one pic of one kid). I got nothing out of it even though I also saw an old picture of him, one I have seen a million times. It just scares me to see him! There is nothing I miss about HIM really. What I miss is the addiction of the anxiety (wanting a hit) and then getting the hit and feeling those endorphins. I am a junkie. We all are.
Was the contractor a narc? 🙂 And what were you going to have put in before you decided on tile?
SMH,
Good memory! Yes, first the brother & me, as a team, with that ill-fated therapy initiative (failure)…then 2 of his medical-related hospitalizations (family called me on first one) — first was real – no idea if second was. So it’s been fun.😕 I get now that I can’t make this end all nice, peaceful or good. I also admit it’s hard for me to comprehend I’m incapable of helping/affecting/inspiring *any* positive change within him — but I do completely accept it, because it’s 100% true…what an entrenched disorder.
The project manager was very nice, professional & I do *not* detect a narc. 🙂He looked at everything & did a write-up…next step is I go look at samples at the showroom…it’s in my laundry room (damage), so I can do either regular linoleum/tile-like linoleum (waterproof) or tile. I’ll have to see. I have to pay the difference from the claim, if I upgrade. I had no idea all this would get so involved. Insulin replacement too. I’m lucky it wasn’t worse!
I’m up late🌙…Happy Halloween, peeps🎃
CIF, I love the look of tiles but they are hard and things you drop on them will break. They are cold too. I’d go with linoleum myself, or maybe fake wood (as it’s a laundry room).
And yes, it is impossible for us to get our heads around the fact that we cannot fix this person. Also that whatever they have, they have with everyone. Maybe it’s even narcissistic of us to believe that we ’cause’ the behavior when we don’t have the power to stop it, start it or change it?
I am now much better — thanks to HG — at recognizing my ‘savior’ tendencies and pulling away. Of course a lot of people think that a healthy relationship is about ‘mutual saving’ (they call it ‘mutual support’) but I don’t need to be saved and I don’t want to save anyone else.
SMH,
That what they had with us they have with everybody…….very true. I try to remember it is all repetition for them.
Kim e, Yeah, we have this fantasy (or nightmare) that they are content with someone else but they are not. That’s why I was so shocked when I found the IG. I expected him to be bbquing with the neighbors, hugging IPPS, goofing off with his kids, joking with his family. Nope, nope, nope. I really was shocked. That’s when I journeyed into the world of Aspergers.
SMH,
I agree, on tile. 🙂 I changed my mind after the project manager showed me the waterproof linoleum. I also agree on the trying to “fix” other people. I like helping where I can, but “fixing” goes against my freedom-loving self…I’m textbook Magnet on wanting to inspire people to their own path, or to comfort them — but not to solve issues for them, as I just don’t believe that’s a real answer. I like being used as a catalyst for positive change, which is not the actual substance of the change-making, if that makes sense. I believe you can point someone to a place where they can help themselves, but you just can’t do it for them — and should never judge their pathway — it’s theirs…and I have great respect for that.
The issue I do struggle with a great deal is that with NPD, the person has a disorder they did not choose, and so my heart is still very soft about that aspect, which is what plays into my guilt. I’m that way about anyone who struggles with conditions or disorders. I deeply feel for them. So that is where it can get tricky for me…which I know is what caused me to try help my ex & his family, with the therapy issue. I feel the family’s pain, and I have the hardest time turning away, even if I’m in jeopardy. I also feel sorry for my ex that he has NPD, whether he likes having it or not. It makes me sad. I’m not sure there’s a pat answer for that, but I’ve been thinking on it lately.
CIF, Good choice on the linoleum and yes, a disorder is sad. I guess I am more of a savior than you are but I wrestled with this a lot too because MRN showed that he was capable of different behaviors for periods of time. For instance, if he thought he was losing me, he’d be very attentive and affectionate, etc. When I was trying to get him to confirm a date and time the last time I saw him, he did and stuck to it, but only after I threatened to go to his house. Obviously any kind of support or concession was really about him, but I couldn’t get past the fact that he was capable if he wanted to do it. It was just such a battle all the time – utterly exhausting. I guess in the end, I do not feel sorry for him at all because he is conscious enough to know at least on an intellectual level that cheating on someone is not nice, that standing someone up is shitty, etc.
SMH, you are totally right, in how you think on that…and I hate even sharing this weakness of mine, because I don’t want to trip anyone else up into feeling sorry for narcissists by even reflecting on that; it does *no* good. Mine certainly knows what he does. He also only makes adjustments when it suits his purposes.
It’s weird, because when I was in the FR & didn’t know what he was, I still did the same thing as today. I accepted “This is you,” and then I split whenever it was too much/too hard on me…I never thought of it as abuse then, but when he affected me enough, self-preservation kicked in. I find it shocking that I never once sat down with him & said: “The way you do ___ is upsetting me…” or even “___ needs to change.” I can’t recall any discussions like that…I certainly would have adult conversations with others as needed, in a healthy way. But with him, it’s like I knew that’s who he *was* – and no amount of discussion would change it. I know that even more today. With him, I take action. I walk out. I throw his phone in the lake. I toss a bucket of water on him. Yes, I did those things. But I chose not to say anything…because I know my words make no difference. I just realized that water is my Superpower.😂
For you, with your wondering, at times, if he’s happy with someone else…
Remember: They don’t do happy. They do power. So he’s not happier with someone else…he’s more powerful. That shows that you’re not easy to manipulate.
Narc: Powerless, with you
You: Powerful, without him
That’s the real score.❤
CIF & SHM
Narc: Powerless, with you
You: Powerful, without him
Only 1/2 of this is corect. The narc always has power as he always has someone…be it a can opener or a frig with an ice maker….there is always someone…………….
Kim,
True – was just trying to encourage SMH that he doesn’t have *her* to empower himself — something for her to remember.
CIF. ❤️😂🎉👿🍩🤠🍦🌺🌺
CIF, Thank you for your kind comment but I think it was just my ET. For instance, today, with my ET lowered, I am CERTAIN that since he cannot be with me, he will NEVER be happy with anyone. MY fuel is the BEST fuel. He knows it, I know it. See how that works? 🙂
You, me and Kim e all escaped. Isn’t that interesting? And here we are, wondering what we did to deserve this endless rumination about men we KNOW are incapable of any positive emotion.
I accepted a lot too. We did talk about what I needed, especially when he was persuading me to have an affair, but the things I needed the most – consistency and transparency – he could not deliver. Still, I hardly criticized him (until post-escape, when I let fly) and also left whenever it got to be too much (five times). Partly this was because I took responsibility for making the decision to be IPSS so I accepted that what I got was what I got, at least in terms of time and attention. Again, it was the push-pull that I could not stand. I did not need him to love me. I needed him to be consistent for me. Too bad I did not have any water handy – but words are really my weapon of choice and I think I exploded at the end from holding them in. Had water been my superpower, I would have thrown a bucket or two over his head!!
Hugs and kisses (and to you Kim e).
SMH,💜
Well, one thing I have to admit is that I don’t ruminate over him (see why I can’t win for losing in this regard, in paragraph 2). But I do struggle with thoughts of him at work at times, because that’s where he has shown up…however, that guarded feeling gets better & better, as days go by. I’m almost at the point of ease 100% of the time at work places again, accepting that as an unknown. I will do my best if it ever occurs again, but I am a pretty quick study with the unexpected, so it will be what it will be (I know what to do/not do). I’ve done all I can realistically, with NC, for who I am. It’s important to me to feel free, and to be brave. I hesitate to type this, but I will…I’m the type of person who would much rather be very free and die earlier — than limit my life/be too guarded and live longer. Please don’t take that as I think I’m going to die!…it’s only to explain how important living freely is to me. I want to live fully & with many special moments (quality), more so than quantity. Ideally, I want both!😉
So the narcissist doesn’t come to mind much anymore in a *personal* way, despite being on a narc site. BUT if I share anything personal about him (like a story from the past, attached to my *feelings*), it means I feel like I’m losing my compassion — and I feel a little guilty. I know! It IS ridiculous. I logically know that’s not true — my compassionate side is always strong. But anyway, if I’m just being technical on the site, about how narcs are (or using him as an example, to relate to others here), he’s not on my mind in any meaningful way. So, a tip-off: when you see me share something personal regarding him AND attach my feelings (like I did about him having a disorder/how I feel bad about that): I’m feeling guilty.
So please, if you see that…feel free to talk me off the guilt ledge, SMH or Kim!😉🥰
P.S. On throwing water, my Superpower (lol)…he didn’t mind me throwing his plug-in phone (he had a bunch) in the lake. He laughed — but it was still largely the golden period, with a bit of his testing. On throwing water on him: That was on his property, when I heard him humiliating a worker…he was not amused by my “baptism” of him. Um, real ragey look. I split. Longest break-up we ever had. Still not sorry! I’ve also used a hose on guys sexually harassing me. I really do think it’s some weird water thing with me. 🤔
CIF, I’ll have to have some water handy next time!
I know you suffer from guilt as we have discussed it before. I think now you recognize it for what it is – your ET. It is not wrong to say ‘this isn’t working for me’ especially if, as you indicate, you would rather have a quality life than a quantity one (I hear you on that). Guilt is also partly what kept me going back. I don’t feel guilty now not because I did not do anything wrong (I did) but because narcs don’t understand guilt. With MRN, at least, anything I said, good or bad, was like water off a duck’s back until I had escaped for good (which at first I did nicely). Then it seemed to matter to him because he had to regain control. Then he paid attention. Then he was wounded. Then the manipulations got worse. I’d say that yours also manipulated you in a worse way after you escaped. Part of that manipulation is the pity me scenario, so you got caught up in his therapy. Don’t feel guilty about not being able to help him. You did do everything you could to help as well as to maintain NC but that guilt is a real weakness with us when we are dealing with narcs.
I don’t know if you followed my Oyster Man adventures but I also felt guilty about him and contacted him six weeks after whatever we were doing ended. Since he is normal and maybe even an empath, he understood why I contacted him, I apologized for being blunt (I was), explained why it would not work for me, and we had a very nice evening. There is a huge difference between guilt over an empath, which can be resolved, and guilt over a narc, which cannot be resolved.
SMH,
So I’m a disaster today…I sprained my ankle (don’t ask, lol), so my man is picking up an Ace bandage for me. I’m not sure if it’s my Tylenol buzz, but while reading your second paragraph, I couldn’t stop giggling…it’s all so insane.They are children – I don’t care what category they are – children, I tell you. And I absolutely adore children…but real children are actually *supposed to be* in childhood.😉
That was very nice of you, with how you handled Oyster Man. I’ve seen snippets of that convo with Kim, and he really doesn’t sound like a narc…he sounds compulsive, but sweet – almost fragile, in a way. But he absolutely needs boundary lines drawn, so good for you. He will probably learn something worthwhile from how you handled it. He sounds like a nice enough person to have a casual dinner with every few months, if you enjoy conversing. You are spot-on, in how different it is with how a narc reacts to “no” or boundaries…and how a normal or empath does.
Yeah, my narc knows my weak spots well. That hospitalization thing was so confusing, as one thing he isn’t is whiny/needy/pity-me like. That just isn’t his gig. Everything can be falling apart around him & he would swear he’s rockin’ it bigtime…I think that hospital thing was not so much pity, for attention’s sake…but a means to an end: to get me to fly to him. Yes, he’s that cocky that he can make that happen and charm me in-person. It worked all those times in the FR, so that’s why he thinks so. But no.
Ok, my “medic” has arrived💜Since the sprain, I’ve been hopping around & almost fell on my ripped-up flooring…if you don’t hear from me in a long time, I also broke my arm.😑 TTFN~
CIF,
How’s that ankle doing? Clutzy! Sounds like your narc was actually playing for pity – it just didn’t look like that at the time. He did get you to go to him, which was the objective, same as MRN did pity plays after I escaped and got me to support him as he was quitting his old job and searching for a new one. He did not say ‘woe is me’ – in fact he told me, oddly, not to worry (why would *I* have worried?) – but I did feel like his mother during that period, or like his ‘alt-wife,’ as I would describe myself. Where was she? I don’t know. So yes they were hoovers but they were pity hoovers.
As for OM, thank you for your kind words. I feel now that he doesn’t really want to see me since I must remind him of failures on the love front, so I don’t want to contact him even though I like hanging out with him.
I wish I would get a buzz from Tylenol! I am way past that! xo
SMH,
“Hop-along” is fine. 😉The ankle is back to normal.
I didn’t actually go to the narc, so at least I didn’t screw that part up, lol. I’m not convinced it was a pity play — more like straight-up lying (to get me to a specific location). I think there is something a lot darker at play right now, as I can feel it, and I’ve got a very high perceptive/sensing element to my empathic nature, so I trust my gut. So, again, I will just be wise/aware…but I refuse to get labored down into worried feelings, so I keep moving forward fully. Livin’ my best life🙂 Speaking of best…
You handle everything as best you could with Oyster Man, so that’s all you could do. I know it’s not like you’re sitting around waiting for him to contact you, but he could have more to learn from this, to be able to get to that place of applying it…and if he does integrate what he’s learned more, he could find a way to comfortable friendship with you, without feeling bad. I think so much is about learning the lessons we all need to learn along the way in life — to achieve different (more positive) outcomes. If he doesn’t learn what his lesson is in this case, that’s not for you to take up. I know you know that — just backing you up.🙂
On ego (your other post)…it’s an interesting thing about narcissistic qualities, which we all do have as Empaths too, to varying degrees. For me, I’ll go introspective on that at times, as a personal check…and try to change narcissistic aspects that don’t serve me (or others, in extension) well. I’m inwardly peaceful/confident, so it can be, at times, hard to tell what is confidence & what is me slipping into “bad pride.” A good sense of pride (which could be called “good self-esteem”) helped me a lot, when I was in the FR — in breaking free — and now does with NC…but then there is real stubborn, bad pride (see Viking Girl), where I try to catch myself, as then I see it going into an area that is of no good use, or just plain wrong (unless in ultimate battle against a narc, but you *must* know how to win, if you go there).
I think you getting out of your entanglement with the mid-ranger was nothing but healthy & good, on every level. One thing I meant to ask you is (I think) you said to Kim that being an NISS was really awful, and it’d still be good for me to hear your thoughts on that, if you don’t mind sharing. You may have said why & I missed it.🙂
Hi CIF, Glad your ankle is back to normal. Where is Kim e, anyway? I hope she did not break NC and is too embarrassed to tell us! Kim e, please let us know how you are doing. Miss you!
Speaking of NC, CIF, in the past 6 weeks, I’ve had 4 private LinkedIn visits and a slew of fake friend requests, including one yesterday, all just when I noticed that IPPS’s IG had changed. You mention being perceptive – MRN would tell me that I was highly perceptive too, and I am, and that also tells me that something is going on. After months and months of nothing, all of this at once is too coincidental. I don’t think of it as something dark but then MRN is not a Greater! Glad you did not go to him. I guess HG could answer what kind of hoover it was. Did you ask him? You can, you know. If he does not answer, you have not lost anything 🙂
My temptation to break NC has abated. Nothing happened. It simply passed as I knew it would (because it has a million times before). It seems to happen during transitions. They could be simple ones, like busy to not so busy or they could be more complicated (leaving my exLH, which is when I met MRN) or traveling internationally. MRN had a weirdly calming affect on me – like a drug. He was always there – hovering or hoovering, one or the other – no matter what else was going on in my life.
To your NISS question – I associate being NISS with the worst part of our relationship because that is when I finally blew up and went into ultimate battle. It wasn’t fun at all. I ended up telling MRN that I was afraid of him because he is so cold, that he was a psychopath, etc. I never actually read the email he sent in response to that rant. It is still sitting in the email folder I have for him. It is the only email of his that I ever ignored, I think because I was quite mortified at how brutal I was! It was all very traumatic for me. It is when I found this site.
I truly did want out, but didn’t want to be mean about it, so at first I was nice. He hoovered incessantly and I responded because I did not know what hoovers were. I thought he needed a friend and I was willing to try. I relaxed somewhat because I didn’t have to behave in the way that he wanted. His emails started like clockwork every few days or so, including on the weekends and in the evenings, which was all new. It was like he was suddenly letting me into his life, just when I didn’t have much interest in being there. He was going through some work transitions and planning to move (all of which I knew before). He did not get one job, he suddenly quit the job he was in, etc. I gave him a lot of support – I was there when he ‘needed’ me. But he would insert sexual innuendo into every conversation, even though that part of our relationship was over (to my mind). I would leave the conversations but he would contact me again and I would respond again.
About six weeks into this, I was at work and he had been emailing me all day making me decipher cryptic messages. He seemed to be assuming that I had known he was away (I had not known) and was now back. I had a very busy day and on the way home that evening, I teased him that he just wanted attention. He went completely silent. That was fine – I could tell I had wounded him (it is when I became convinced beyond all doubt that he was a narc).
A few days later, I emailed him, which I had not done for months. I had tendonitis in my foot (speaking of sprained things) and I was home on the sofa in a lot of pain. I was feeling guilty about him, so I sent him a light note, asked him what he had wanted, apologized, and told him about my foot. Well, a friend would have responded. He did not even though he knew I was in pain because I told him! I had responded when he needed me but he did not when I needed him to at least be sympathetic. It was the first ever ST he gave me and I went ballistic. I was shelved all the time in the FR, and he was often curt, but he had never NOT responded to me at all. All bets were then off then, and I went on the warpath. I dissected his psychology and behavior, I told him the real reason I had left the relationship (his behavior, not because it was an affair), etc. I went through every step of my escape and his hoovers, analyzing all of it, down to the ST. Then I got all sweet a few weeks later after he hoovered me again with a private visit to my LinkedIn, because I needed one last thing from him – to delete all of our correspondence in front of me. That was the final battle. I had found HG right after the ST, so I had the benefit of this site by then. But I never told MRN he was a narcissist. Just a psychopath and that he had a personality disorder.
My feeling is that from our perspective, as NISS the ‘rewards,’ such as they are, are not there whereas all the manipulations still are, so there is no point. From the narc’s perspective (and I picked this up from HG), one never goes from being IPSS to NISS. In retrospect, I can see this now. To MRN, I was still IPSS so my changes in behavior were hard for him to take because he could not control me anymore. He might have thought he could seduce me back into the FR, but I didn’t take the bait. I might have had it gone on but the next and last time I saw him was after he put me through a hellish week and all I wanted was for him to delete those emails so that I could finally cut the damned cord (I used my real email and he used a fake one and didn’t want him to have anything with my name on it). He did it in front of me because by then I had threatened to go to his house and I would have, I was so single-minded about it – my obsessive tendencies went against him rather than to his benefit.
I feel that the whole time I was an ‘NISS’ it was really just about him trying to regain control of me. Just say NO to NISS! It is impossible.
As for OM, thank you again for your kind words. I did do my best! He knows about his problem – he told me while it was happening. I asked on several occasions that we take it slow but he did not listen – instead he asked me to travel with him before we had even had our third date. He does deserve someone nice. The thing is that with him he wants women who are complicated, independent, etc but he also wants someone who is needy/needs to be needed. Can’t have it both ways. I guess we are all stuck!
xo
SMH,
I have such a weird work day, so I’ve been home for an hour~but am headed back in now, until late…I read your first paragraph & look forward to reading the rest later on🙂…but about Kim…if the past is any indicator, she may be down or slipped up a bit on NC. OR she’s just normal busy…but here’s where I know the empath that I am is not what is likely called for (which makes having different Empaths a wonderful thing), as my inclination is always: “Give her space & time to sort,” but that’s because of how I am/what I want & need, when I need to recharge or work something out.
But she’s a Geyser, and they often need to open up about things troubling them more, so she may need a Savior Empath to draw her out! 💞I’m concerned if she is okay too…hope she turns up🙂
CIF, That’s fine. I wrote a lot! Read it at your leisure. I believe I am a savior (haven’t been assessed, however). I just hope I didn’t knock Kim e back with anything I said. If she did slip up, well, we do. She left right around when we were discussing starting over the NC count. I just hope she does not feel that she is back to square one, because it does get easier! I tend to be on here more too when I am not so busy. For me, it is usually relaxing but it can also be triggering, so I do get having to step away.
Speaking of it getting easier, I watched Surviving R Kelly (everyone on here should watch it). And one of the psychologists said that women leave abusive relationships between 5-7 times (or some surprisingly high number) before they are successful. That was the case with me with MRN (5 times).
SMH,
I’m sure it was nothing that you said. Hope she’s okay though.💚
That would be a good special to see. And it’s so true, that it often takes several attempts before NC sticks. We learn/re-learn…building strength, with more understanding each time. Life lessons.
CIF ❤️❤️ (that was a big effort for your big heart – I don’t normally use emojis!)
SMH,
Thanks, very sweet of you. I try not to use many emojis for those who don’t use them, as I get it’s a tool to relate only *if* it’s how someone else relates (emojis can also bring clarity on intent or emotions, on written communication). I find that if I use a lot of them it’s because whomever I’m interacting with brings out the playful/creative/child-like side of me. 🙂
CIF, I tried to get MRN to use emojis because his written expression was so flat. He would hardly use punctuation at all, never mind an exclamation point! I think he then used a smiley face once or twice :).
SMH,
They really don’t find use in emojis, lol…the only one my narc would use is the sunglass one – you know, ’cause he’s too cool. 😎And only occasionally, when being flirty or well-fueled. He’s the same in writing as HG is, which is probably why I’m used to the flatness/bluntness. He can get more animated, like HG does at times, but only when in the interplay mode/mood.
CIF & SMH. mine used gif’s not really ever emojis. Bitch of it is I have come to realize is gifs stay in your photos. So as I am looking at my pictures here comes a stop me dead in my tracks emoji 😒😒😒😩😩😩😩🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃
Kim,
Well, now I *know* he’s an annoying bastard, lol… I hate Gifs!
Kim e and CIF, The only gif I ever sent MRN was post-escape of an infant Trump dressed in a baby bonnet with the words ‘I just want attention.’ That was what broke the camel’s back. I wonder if, like CIF, MRN simply did not like gifs. lol.
Delete them, Kim-e!
Too funny, SMH…And yes, delete the gifs, Kim. (Sorry, I’m empathically falling down on the job!)
SMH & CIF
The gifs were deleted one I realized they had saved. One of them was a creepy clown face looking in a window. When he sent it he said “see you in your dreams”………so romantic!!!!!!!!!! I know you two are jealous.
Kim,
I’m scared of clowns! Seriously, they freak me out. The only clowns I can deal with are circus clowns. I even look away from Ronald McDonald.
If anyone sent me that gif, they’d be wishin’ they didn’t.
#CrazyClownsAin’tNoJoke
OMG CIF and Kim e, I am petrified of clowns too! They are all creepy and its a great disguise for a serial killer (John Wayne Gacy). Figures a narc would use a clown gif. Jeez. Kim e, I would have run for the hills. Kidding. I probably would have laughed (laughing now just imagining it).
SMH,
Exactly – the serial killer thing.
Who thinks it’s cute or funny to paint a stark, sickly, frozen smile or frown on your face? Not me. There’s a reason why so many kids cry when they see them…they probably are Empaths.
#GetAwayFromSmallChildrenWithYourCreepyFace
SMH
“serial killer (John Wayne Gacy)”…….
I grew up in DesPlaines the town that he lived in and did all his clown parties in.
I just had a thought and I know I put it on the board before but it was long time ago so I will tell you know.
The only gift….I say this with tongue in cheek…….I ever got from W was a garbage can. A big one that the truck actually lifts off the ground to empty. We were talking on the way home from our 2nd date and I mentioned that I needed to go buy one as the town had changed its requirments. He said he had 2 as he bought a smaller one but would give me the big one.
I am telling you…it saved me 48.00 and I was thrilled!!!! There have been numerous times I have thought about rolling the thing to his driveway and laying it down behind his truck so he doesn t see it when he goes to back out…………….
Not sure how I could have ever gone NC with such a catch………………sigh……………… 🙂
Kim e, I thought I responded to this. Maybe I did not? Is Des Plaines where all the bodies were found? If you do put the garbage can behind W’s truck make sure it is full of fake blood or something. Now that would be funny!
SMH…..LOL. I have a cat and thought about waiting until summer when I am way off his radar and load it with used cat liter. Gonna start saving now!!!!!!
Yes. Des Plaines is where he lived. And the bodies were found.
Clowns never bothered me until I met one that fucked with my mind.
CIF, Sounds just like MRN. I couldn’t figure out why he would continue to reach out but basically not talk to me. I would Google why is he so curt? On several occasions I mentioned that he seemed like two different people, because he was very talkative and animated in person. He said that I was not the only person who told him that. I think he might have added that some people come to hate him. I can’t remember because I was so stressed out when that conversation happened, but it sounds about right. HG’s bluntness used to trigger me. Their similarities are so weird but I guess they say that about empaths too. lol. It’s like two different species.
SMH,
Yep!
Mine (<Kim's right – we need a different word) is not "animated" in person (socially) either. He's cool charming. Women think he's sexy. Men think he's a man's man. He's popular, but has a segment of people who think he's the devil. He can exude a lot of warmth with me, but it's hard to explain (and I'd rather not try!). I was attracted to his calm, confident demeanor & melty ways. I like that "quiet calm" in a guy — just no more narcs!
#ANarcManufacturesWhatYouLike
CIF, MRN was super calm too – made me feel drugged! It was just his inconsistency and the push/pull thing that got to me. I felt like a human ping-pong ball. I don’t know how he was socially because we were always alone. Only once – when he wanted to meet my son – would we have been with someone else, but that didn’t happen because my son was asleep the whole time. As for how we refer to them, I give ‘mine’ a name – MRN (mid-range narc) because then I don’t have to say ‘my narc’ or ‘mine.’ Give ‘yours’ a name!
Why did some people think he was the devil? Curious because MRN said something similar about himself but I did not probe at the time because I was going through a period of very high anxiety with him and I could barely sit down to have a rational conversation. I still remember the scene – me perched on a chair and him on the sofa, listening intently as I tried to explain why he was making me lose my mind. I think we ended up in bed, as always. If we could have just stayed in bed all the time, everything would have been fine – he was most warm and playful there.
SMH,
Because he can be very calculating & brutally cold about what he does to achieve what he needs to. He hid this from me in the FR, but I know it all now.
I’m going to stick with “nex” because it’s what’s best for me…but I’m not going to say “mine,” as I just hate saying that! I don’t mind saying “my nex” though — it’s just factual.
Did you notice timeframes/events with the push & pull? Also, did he ever bring up his childhood? What did he say about his relationship with his Mom or Dad? I see so much about my nex as being related to how his upbringing affected him. He left home early/got into college early. With him, it’s pretty clear to me now that he had the predisposition (DNA) but his upbringing surely sealed the deal.
CIF,
Nex sounds like he could be scary. How did you find out about it??
MRN was a bit of a bumbler, which is why it was so confusing. He could be really sweet and warm, but then he would be lying or hiding something at the same time, right?
We never spoke much about our childhoods but I figured out enough to think that he was also predisposed with a problematic upbringing. His siblings seemed to have problems too. I once saw a picture of his father, who was his spitting image, down to the sunglasses and the swagger, which made me think MRN either needed to please or to emulate his father. I think he is a broken person but I don’t see that as an excuse for his behavior.
The push/pull thing was connected to intimacy in my language but I guess in HG’s it was connected to fuel instincts. Here is an example (a bit long-winded – sorry!):
Following my fourth escape, I contacted him after six months NC to apologize for something. He responded within seconds. We had a discussion over a day or two about why our relationship kept going into a death spiral. He wanted to see me. I was ambivalent but I let him come over early one morning. Trust, closeness, affection.
Over the next two weeks he contacted me every day. I was still ambivalent but as soon as *I* initiated contact, his tone changed, I think because he figured he had me. I won’t get into all of the boring details but the second it happened, my decision was made. I wrote him a long ‘break up’ email saying I did not want to be in an affair anymore, which wasn’t the full story. He did not respond and I thought it was over. But then the hoovers started (I had not yet found HG).
Six weeks later, after many hoovers and me trying to be a supportive friend, I sent that Gif and got a silent treatment. The first one ever. I apologized but also said the punishment was completely out of proportion to the offense.
Even though I did not hear from him, I decided to tell him the real reason why I wouldn’t go back – the push/pull thing. I laid it all out for him, including that I had watched him for those two weeks and that I had done nothing wrong throughout the whole relationship. It was all him. I then drew a line in the sand – you will NEVER touch me again unless you can show CONSISTENT love and affection. I know he cannot do that so that is my rule for myself in case I am ever tempted again.
We saw each other once after that (quite a battle, which HG helped me with) because I wanted him to delete our 3000 emails in front of me. I had really given him a lashing the few weeks before and then he was away. While he was away, he creeped my LinkedIn and that is when I realized that I needed those emails gone. They felt like an invisible thread that kept us connected – the last cord that needed to be cut.
SMH,
Thanks for your post, and I want to reflect and write more in it. I feel steady and am fine, and I don’t want to talk about this next thing on here, but remember the one thing I didn’t think he knew…well, he knows. I’m ok, no worries, but new ballgame. I was unbelievably calm, & think it’s because I’ve been preparing myself mentally for this. Will get back soon, on your post – probably tonight.
SMH,
Good for you. 💜You handled the ending so well…3,000 emails, lordy. I understand now why you are anti-email.
(I may be quiet for a bit, but I’m fine. I now know what’s on his mind. It’s not malice. Now I can prepare myself in a different way. But I’m eerily calm, even for me. I feel grounded).
CIF
Check in when finished with your “mission”. Take care and be careful. I of course have no idea what is going on but you do and that is all I need to know
Smoochies
Ditto CIF! I don’t have any idea either but let us know and stay grounded!
Thanks, women❤
(Quick recap: He’s back, full-force, with his gentle/respectful/charming “win my girl” pre-FR & breakup/makeup mode, which isn’t any better than malice for my situation…proves you can’t fully gauge it, as I anticipated he’d go dark. I knew something was coming though – I felt it. Maybe it’s why I am so calm. Anyway, I’m taking stock…and yes, he broke my NC, in a big way).
Please go on, as per usual, with what’s up with you guys.❤ CIF is…well, fine.🙂 Pretty efficient of me to name myself that. Ha.
Kim,
My mission (so to speak) is done, in that I have given up…which is exactly what I needed to do in this situation, for my peace. He is on his own mission, and I can’t control that. I’ve done as much NC as I am willing to do for my life, and I trust I will handle anything else fine, as it comes. I have zero doubt he’ll be back. Will the hoovers never end? Possibly, but there is a timeframe with them, and I will deal. I feel calm…I know I keep saying that, but something way deeper has happened with me, in a good way. I am also relieved, as I have thought more about what I know now, and what it all means. I don’t think he’s going to harm me. I’m about 98% sure of that (I only hold out the 2% because I am naturally self-protective). I have a small concern (not nearly as big as what it was) that he may go after other people in my life, but that has lowered considerably. He’s an UMR. It’s clear to me that him believing he is a narcissist comes & goes. But there is no way he is a Greater, as he’s completely convinced he loves me (which makes me sad/that was a tough by-product of the Hoover, but at least my guilt didn’t turn up). It is now crystal clear to me that he 100% believes he’s driven by love. And with that, my tug-of-war over Greater v. UpperMid, which has been ongoing this entire time (with all the similarities that concerned me most/first trying to convince myself he was an UMR, but then fearful he was not & that I may be in physical danger if I kept thinking that) is — finally — over. So much was revealed with this Hoover, and it is the one thing I can be very grateful for…just in time for Thanksgiving. It took some time, but I got myself where I needed to, and this is always how I find my own peace.
So pass the turkey & cranberries.🙂
CIF, That’s quite a revelation. I think it changes a lot of what we have discussed. I take it you mean he is not malignantly plotting and planning? How do you interpret it? That he is deluded? Thinks he loves you but doesn’t know what love is?
Please don’t fall for it – knowing he is a mid-ranger requires a whole different sort of analysis. He won’t physically harm you but the manipulations are incredibly insidious. Periodically I would briefly imagine that MRN and I were completely misunderstanding each other. I know it was ridiculous but I was so defensive with him, largely because of the situation, that I’d think I was missing the ‘driven by love’ signals. Right before my final escape I even said, ‘I think we are in love with each other and that is why we can’t leave each other.’ I walked it back to ‘we love things about each other’ but I think it is too easy to fall into a trap that my LT tells me was not true. Driven by love is just another form of manipulation/a pity hoover.
It is VERY clear to me because months earlier I had said to him, ‘if you love IPPS you should try to make it work.’ I saw a light bulb go off in his head and I thought he loved IPPS and was going to try to make it work. He even promised to be ‘the best person’ for her that he could be. I went NC for six months. But he was hoovering me the whole time and wanted me back once he had gotten IPPS to believe that he was ‘driven by love.’ She even said when we emailed that they were ‘happy’ those six months whereas I could tell from IG that he was bored and disengaged. How is it that I was able to read him better than she could? Now I understand that she is a love devotee, which I am not, was lulled into complacency, which was his objective, and her ET clouded her thinking. It all sort of disappointed me. I wanted him to love IPPS because I wanted the confusion/limbo cleared up so I could move on.
I wonder what HG makes of all of this love stuff. We are all confused by it – at least I am – but narcs are not able to love, so what is it that they actually feel? HG, if you care to weigh in?
In any case, glad you made it through, CIF, and do not fear him anymore. Funny but it is only now that I sense your anxiety. You put on a very cheerful exterior (not meant as a criticism) but I see now that this is your self-protection. Hope you really are okay. xo
The effects of fuel as explained previously.
SMH,
I see HG’s reply, but not yours to me (I only see the beginning of yours, since he replied to your comment for me). I’m off to church, like the angelic girl I am (🤔). I’ll be back later today to go through the thread, to find your comment (yes, I shall scroll through the entire 300-400+ comments to find it – that’s how great my love is for you🤗)…for some reason, your reply didn’t go to my inbox.
CIF, I use the search function on my browser. Opens a little search thing at the bottom of the screen and takes me to whatever I am looking for, though sometimes I have to scroll through a few pages of posts. Since you are going to church, you should search on ‘that’s quite a revelation.’ Will take you to my comment :). Smooches.
SMH,
I found your other comment! But I can’t get a reply button for it, so I went to this comment of yours instead…
I’m not sure how to definitively answer the “plotting” part, as it’s obvious to me that he has calculation on some things — I mean, it took calculated planning for him to find me, and he also had to manipulate someone else to find out I’m with someone (yeah – not good). I also do know (from others) the calculated things he’s done, while climbing the ladder of success (malign stuff). There are, however, many valid, logical reasons why I don’t think he will harm me. I can talk more about that, if you’re concerned. ❤
As for me falling for anything, no worries – I’m not. I see it clearly. As for my personality (how I feel/handle things), I’m the type who – under adversity – puts on a brave face until I am actually brave, but I do gain strength in working it through…I’m pretty good at summoning courage, and I do have a lot of inner strength to draw from, so that helps with this…I truly have been joyful, but about a month ago, I had such an incredibly strong vibe he found out where I live. I couldn’t shake the feeling, and I started getting really nauseated at times, just thinking about it (I can get like that when I’m unnerved)…so, ever since, I’ve been looking over my shoulder in my home environment. It really was like I knew he was coming.
If he keeps turning up…the biggest concern I will have is his jealousy, which has always been the hardest thing for me to handle. That could get aimed at someone else. I don’t want to be naïve. I am going away for work again this week, and I’m going to spend a lot of time thinking about my guy, on how to handle that aspect…to say or not to say – that is the question.
Got it, HG. I guess I meant to ask what the effects of fuel feel like as I know love is about fueling up. I imagine your answer to be a surge of power when the narc’s victim professes love. But when the narc professes love for his victim, what is he feeling? Nothing? Power? It’s only powerful if you know it matters to the other person. If it doesn’t matter to them, it’s not a very effective way of gaining fuel. In fact, you’d be leaving yourself vulnerable to a wounding.
He feels the powering effect of fuel, but believes that it is love. It is not, SMH.
Understood. I forgot the ‘believing’ part.
CIF… OK then. As long as you are at peace with it that is all that matters. You are correct in as much as we can not control N’s, we especially can not control their hoovers.
Dont forget the smashed pots… as my youngest called them……with lots of butter. CHEERS!!!
Kim,
It may be “stupid peace” (lol) but I’m at peace…it’s actually pretty hard to rock my inner peace — not for long anyway. I guard it fiercely, if needs be. The reason I’m so joyful is *because* of my peace. However, my peace *can* be disturbed, if this turns into a gnarly mess involving others, but I don’t believe this will. I have no facts to give you on *why* it won’t, but I just believe it will be okay, like I have faith it will…I don’t know how it objectively looks from the outside, looking in (probably not great), but I’m just not feeling tense about it. So if someone reading this is thinking: “Gawd, Caroline – you’re a clueless wonder — you might as well dig your own grave in your backyard, because you’re super screwed,” I’m not anywhere near thinking like that…I just don’t have that type of feeling about it.
There’s a part of me that is always pretty damn calm – I don’t rattle too easily, unless it’s a justice-type issue (then I can get downright freaking ragey!)…but there’s another part of me that will problem solve a bit to get myself out of stuff, but not crazy over-thinking it — then I’ll just drop it & let it flow. I have a mix of qualities (maybe empath qualities) that seem to level me out, so that helps, with this. I deeply care about people, but I also know how to set boundaries. I’m not long-suffering, when it comes to someone taking advantage of me — I will absolutely tap out. If someone is starting to really disturb my peace, that’s my ass you see — leaving.
When it comes down to it, his NPD is not my responsibility, and I get this. I’m very sorry he has it, but there’s just nothing I can do about it. He’ll do what he will, but he won’t imprison me with it, within my spirit (physically containing me in a dungeon is still possible, lol)…he can’t change who I innately am, and that is where I go to get my peace: inside. I don’t seek it outside myself. What can he really do to me then? He’s actually more screwed in this than I am.
I’m not even mad at him for this latest stunt, as he’s just being a narcissist. I have a lot of hope for people to overcome their issues — just like I’ve had to overcome tragedies in my own life — but not if they have no will to. In his case, I realize it’s because of his disorder that he can’t take a new route. But I won’t let that drain my own energy. There’s no way I will let that happen. I have way too much I need to do in life, and things that I value…things important to my heart.
Enough seriousness.
Ok, um…why am I eating potatoes again? Lol
SMH. Yep. Drugged and under water. When I was a candidate I never heard from him on weekends. But the manipulation was still there. I would go to my friends house and some times after only being there 45 minutes I was be “ I have to go home”. Once I got home I was ok but that was the pull of the you are going to have no friends or go anywhere without me manipulation.
Kim e, I know what you mean – so much waiting around, not being able to focus, wanting to be in the space where we could be ‘together’ (even virtually). I would feel glued to my phone or computer on weekdays but I would also relish telling him what I had done while he was at home in the evenings and on weekends. I NEVER asked what he did. I once apologized to him for never asking, telling him that he really did not exist for me evenings and weekends. He said ‘I think about you when we are apart.’ I said ‘I know you do.’ I can be pretty twisted too – the whole thing was like operating without an ounce of honesty – constant mind games. So, so stressful for an empath!
CIF & SMH
Describes him to a tee. Sexy as hell, walks with the confidence of a king, thighs to die for (sorry I digress) the total package. He is a good communicator in person but better in text. Gotta stop….ET coming up…pardon the expression……but those thighs….sigh……ROFLMAO
Kim,
Ugh, that description was bad timing – sorry about that post. I know you’re being light-hearted about it, but I’m not gonna trip your ET. However, it gives me an opportunity to share…
So I read something (research, not bogus crap) about what to do if you get stuck on an unwanted thought. So you extend the thought out to what comes to mind — out to five. It’s word association, in other words — and it lessens the emotion of the first thought, so you can move your mind along.
I’ll do it, to show you. So your last thought was “thighs”…now you pop off your next thought with a word, until you get to five-out from the original word. This is how mine went, using your “thighs” word:
1) thighs
2) KFC
3) Greasy
4) grills
5) summertime
Yep…that’s how CIF’s thinking went. You do it quickly — don’t dwell on what comes to mind next. They say it’s pretty darn effective. You can move it out to 10, if that’s more effective.
That’s hysterical, CIF. I know you put KFC but I would have put chicken, though maybe it would have led me to cock?
MRN is sexy too. However, I am sexier. hahaha.
SMH,
Of course you’re sexier – you’re an Empath for God’s sake❣🤸♀️
CIF……I love KFC and his thighs were like no other I had ever seen.
But…thanks for the examples……..ROFLMAO!!!!!
SMH,
I hate that I can’t see your comment when I reply~hope I don’t forget anything…
The LinkedIn/friend request pattern does sound pretty doggone suspicious.🧐 I bet you’re right about that~someone trying to stir something up, hmmm? Stop that, Mr. Mid-Ranger.😑
You explained the situation well, about the NISS stint. Thanks.🙂 Yeah, that sounds very much like he wasn’t thinking any differently than when you were IPSS…just another ploy to get you situated back in the same spot. I like that there was that tipping point you had during your physical problem, in that you felt hurt/anger at not being treated like a real friend would treat you. It’s always the authentic (how a true friend acts) that makes us realize how truly “off” the narc situation is…but when you’re in it, it’s like you get desensitized to the abnormal (salami slicing effect). It’s weird, because during the FR with my ex, I never, the entire 3 years, saw him treat his close friends poorly…so when I was thinking that being an NISS would get me out of the fix I was in, that’s what I was thinking of — hey, give me some of that friendship goodness with none of the bad crap — wrap it up/problem solved! But no worries…he made it abundantly clear that there would be none of that benign friendship stuff for me. I must suffer.😬 I cannot believe that out of this entire experience I only felt really hurt that he didn’t find it amazingly valuable to have me as a friend. That’s so goofy! Well, maybe it’s more that I was irritated that I couldn’t get him to go in a direction that would get me off the hook & let me feel the peace. Yeah, that sounds about right.
High-fiving you for getting the emails deleted.🙋♀️ No telling what would happen with your name on stuff, so good for you to get that done.
CIF,
Whenever I can’t see the whole comment I click on comments and open another tab so I can read it. But I use this site on my email and I don’t know how it works otherwise.
Once again you nailed it. Who wouldn’t want to have ME as a friend? lol.
The thing is, I did not reach out to be MRN’s friend. He did (well, I thought he was). I was never around his friends but judging by his ‘followers’ on IG, he didn’t have many and since he rarely responded to any comments on IG, I am guessing that he is the same with them as he was with me. But again he is not a Greater. My exHL had ZERO friends, and I mean zero. He turned out to be the biggest vampire I have ever encountered. He needed all of his social, psychological, financial and emotional support from me. He wore a mask with my family but not with my friends, several of whom witnessed his behavior, including being on the receiving end of it. Having no friends should have been a huge red flag – now it is. If you don’t have friends, don’t come near me.
Last night I discovered that I also have a filtered FB message that FB removed because it couldn’t verify the user’s identity. That is the second one that I have received the past year. I have to wonder again if it is MRN using one of his fake profiles.
Hope you have a good day today! xo
SMH,
Your ex-HL was probably very jealous of your friends, eh? Does he hoover you at all now?
I can understand how FB stuff would get you wondering. I bet your gut tells you what’s up most of the time. Exes of any kind are going to creep that. I’ve never had FB, Instagram, Snapchat,Twitter, anything (for a few good reasons)…some family & friends get frustrated by that, but it ain’t happenin’ ! (I’m peer group pressure immune — but not narc guilt immune😕). The other day, one of my guy friends called and said: “Why didn’t you text me back?” I told him he must have bumped his head really hard because my text is always disabled – did he forget? He sighed & said, “You’re just a freak of nature, Caroline.”
Hmm, sensing he sees my inner freak as a bad thing…🤔😑
Haha that’s funny CIF, that you are so old skool! Good for you! If you have few things to ‘block’ there is much less to get a handle on. From now on, no email if you want to date me. Phone calls and texts only (I don’t mind texts because they have to be brief and to the point).
ExHL did try to isolate me from my friends during the FR. That is why he’d be rude to them or ruin whatever event we went to or pick a fight and walk away from me when we were going somewhere. He hoovered a lot at first (malign) but on the advice of a friend I told him he was bullying/harassing me, a legal offense in the UK (this all happened in the UK). He then stopped. We have not seen each other for more than three years. The last time he hoovered was last year. He sent me a long whiny email and I told him – having found HG by then – that he was narcissistic. Then I stole the only thing he desperately wanted back. I paid to ship it to the USA!!
As for FB, I can usually distinguish between MRN and other FB crap but sometimes I cannot. In this case it is the timing of it all. Nothing had happened for months, then the IG pattern changed, there were four LI visits and now the FB friend requests and messages, all within a matter of weeks. MRN always had hoover patterns. They are now what I call ‘bursts’ – a flurry of activity instead of regularly timed activity and long silences instead of a brief pause. It makes sense because in the past he would be anticipating contact and keeping me hooked, but now I am not ‘there’ and I don’t respond. I can only be entering the sixth sphere. If he occasionally thinks about me and then forgets about me, the hoover ‘burst’ pattern makes sense.
SMH,
Lol – it’s true, I have aspects to me that have always been “old school.” Then on the other hand, I can be pretty unconventional, in specific areas. I’m an “old soul” – but can also be very childlike (not to be confused by childish, puh-leeze!😉).
That’s interesting, about email being “out” for you. It’s good you so clearly see what can become a problem; that’s half the battle. I have several email addresses, but some are dummy accounts, for protection/privacy. I have an intense need for privacy, which if you knew me in RL would seem pretty odd, as I’m pretty go-with-the-flow & very social, unless really drained. But I fiercely protect my privacy, for several reasons. I don’t text because it would overwhelm me, to be continually getting stuff/replying, and it would be too much of a distractor. So I like the slower pace of email or calls…and I feel free to get back with someone when I can. I am someone who, if I turned my phone on & it kept pinging visually or audibly with texts, I would go set it on fire or throw it in a body of water.😳
It’s also interesting about your Lesser. Do you think it’s Lessers who mainly pick fights/engage in a set-up before an event? My nex never did that “fight beforehand” thing. Or not big enough that I recall it. What he did do is cause unnecessary problems/tensions between us while *at* an event, so we’d end up in some intense fight by the time we left…then we’d make up (sexual), and that was a big pattern. Another pattern was if I ever went away on travel for work, he’d act SO chillingly frosty freeze when I got back — like he was totally pissed. I think that was related to some sort of possessiveness, but I’m really not sure. I am not a “What’s the matter?” questioner. Instead, I will observe, or do more subtle trial-and-error. I mean, I will ask that question with friends — but not of guys, while in a relationship. It’s almost like I sense it’d be acting needy, and I shun that. That was a secret complaint of my ex about me (which took me quite awhile to figure out) — that I didn’t question him. They really are exhausting, with the gameplay.
I was going to ask you something else about your reply, but it flew out of my mind. I’ll come back if I recall!
CIF,
ExHL would do the things you describe too – cause problems at events, get cold and angry when I was traveling. Eventually, my temper was so short with him that I wouldn’t even try to resolve things anymore. I left him multiple times too, though it wasn’t stated the way it was with MRN. They are the only two men I have ever left and returned to, and it makes sense in that light that they are both narcs, just of different sorts.
MRN wouldn’t get cold when I was gone (often for months at a time) but he would get touchy if, say, he emailed me and I was on my way out or somewhere where he would have liked to be and my attention was not on him. It was more jealousy than possessiveness, I’d say, and that might have been the case with your Greater too. Jealousy that your attention was not on him. Complete inability to be happy for someone else who might be enjoying themselves. Did he ever ask how your work trips went? Did he listen when you told him?
As for email, I have four or five accounts but I only regularly use 3. My work email can be overwhelming and I like to have an empty inbox, so you can imagine how stressful it can get. I don’t find it slow and languid at all, especially after MRN. OM also liked to email but in his case it was so he could unload everything that he was thinking about on me. He emailed me something like 40 times in two weeks, including when I was away on a boat. So yeah, I hate email! 🙂
I have two phones and I keep them both on mute, always. If I happen to be looking at one and something comes in then of course I will see it, but otherwise I can pretty much ignore until I am ready to respond. I don’t have any mobile data on either phone right now either so when I go out you gotta text or call or I won’t know a thing unless I happen to come across some free wifi! So I can be a bit old school that way too :).
SMH,
Yah! Kim is back & doing fine…so we were concerned for nothing. She’s rockin’ it 🙂(Hi, Kim❤…You have made so much progress – proud of ya, woman.🤸♀️)
That’s an interesting question you asked, about the narc listening about my work. I get excited about my work, but I am one to summarize or hit main points on it, when asked — so he had a good attention span on it & seemed interested. I have 2 totally separate careers (one is seasonal). So he totally encouraged one – he loves that one. He sometimes ignored aspects of the other one, and I think that one is because he saw it, like you said, as taking attention away from him (& control issues)…while the first one worked in his favor. However, both he used(façade) in talking to other people about what I do.
CIF & SMH. Aawww. Sorry to hear you were worried. Thanks for caring. I told “dad” what was up in case someone inquired. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Kim,
It’s okay.💚 I’m sure if SMH & I started ramping up by saying things like:
“OMG!! WTH happened to Kim??”
“Holy crap! Something is super wrong now!”
“She’s probably super depressed or in terrible danger!!”
*Then* HG would have summoned up every bit of reassurance he could muster for us — stretching himself beyond imagination, in only the way he can provide an abundance of support & comfort — to say to us…
🗣”She’s fine.”
😂
lol CIF. I would hope so, or maybe he would have just let us fret.
CIF
Perfect description. I am rolling here as I can picture HG saying “logic says she is an adult and is fine biut these 2 empaths just wont leave it alone so I guess I must step in….YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Missed you too HG
Kim e, Dad did not pass the message on!
SMH…Forgive dad. He has a lot of empaths to deal with along with his normal every day manipulations. And he is not getting any younger…….
lol Kim e, don’t remind dad that he is not getting any younger. He is in good company but he doesn’t care about company.
CIF, MRN also got some character traits (if that is the correct phrase) out of what I do. He could even be supportive. The problem was only when it took away from my attention on him or, worse, when I started something (also kind of a side job that fell in my lap) that is in the field he was trained for and which he left for an industry job, of course to make tons more money. When that happened, I was SO excited to tell him and I wanted his input/guidance. He should have been very interested just on an objective basis, but I think he was a tad jealous. He could have been doing something much more interesting but he chose a different path, which I called his ‘gilded cage.’ I did get him to quit his job – I even did the financial calculation for him – you can do this, I said. But he moved on to something similar. The last time I saw his IG (eons ago now), he was going somewhere that made my heart sink because I knew exactly what he was doing there. Maybe had I been IPPS things would have been different in this respect (he could have used the character traits) but as I was not, they didn’t really matter to him. They were just one more part of me that he could pretend to ignore.
SMH,
OMG! — delayed reaction. I didn’t mean “debrief” in a dirty sense…I meant it like talking to myself, if I felt any fallout, as in sensitivity because of my nex-BF. Yeah, I’m leaving now.
#WhenExplainingMayBeWorseThanLeavingItAlone😂
CIF, I think a lot of women here debrief after they have interacted with HG 🙂
SMH,
I believe my fearless leader HG….or maybe it was NA…told me that for us to escape it really means nothing to them because it was not their idea. If they disengage it is a different story. That is why when we go NC…whether it is for 3 hours or 3 months, when contact is made in the N’s mind, nothing has changed…..and they can just carry on from where it left off.
Wounding is slight as it was not done face to face. I am sure a compliment or to from the can opener will soothe the pain…LOL
Kim e, It got worse after the wounding because I got terribly angry end went on the warpath. Most of it was not face to face but the very end was. At that point, he deflected and blame shifted. I think he turned things around so that he could believe that it WAS his idea. His narcissism wouldn’t have allowed him to admit that it was mine. By that time, in any case, things were so twisted that there was no hope of untwisting them.
But you are correct that every time I went NC and returned it was like nothing had happened. We wouldn’t even discuss what we had done during the month or six months or whatever. I could see that scenario again were I to reach out. Him: how are you? Me: fine thanks, how about you? Him: fine. Where are you? Me: wherever. Where are you? Him: wherever. Me: Did you miss me? Him: Were you gone? Jk about that last set but it was like that except for the time he asked ‘where are you?’ 3 hours after I landed, when he knew the exact day and time of my arrival.
You have to watch Dr Foster!! I think HG must consult on all of these British psychodramas using the info he gets here as well as his own knowledge. I suspect that is why I see the same relatable story playing out over an over.
Damn, rumbled.
Gotcha!
SMH.
My world is a Netflix show!!! Yesterday on the way home on the train, my vertigo kicked in. Wasnt really bad but I cancelled my workout and went home. There was an Amazon package at my front door. Strange I say to me. I got my order yesterday. I felt crappy so just put it on the counter and hit the couch. After about 45 minutes I felt better, not normal but better …(stop laughing). I opened the package and it was the amino acids (BCA) that I drink after a work out…the exact brand that I buy. But I had not bought it.
Thinking I had lost it completely, I checked my orders on Amazon and did not find it. Check any subscriptions that I had set up for recurring shipments and found none. No gift card in the envelope. I call Amazon. They have no record of the order not can they find anything thur the UPS tracking number. “You can keep it, throw it away, donate it….you will not be charged as we do not show youa s ordering it.
WELL>>>>at this time my ET and LT have joined forces to make me completely looney. I hear HG in one ear saying “logical thinking says your N did not send this. If cost money and he is not going to spend the money. It was a mistake on Amazons part”>
My ET devile is telling me…”WTF. Who else would know this is the EXACT stuff I drink. I have snet stuff to my kids at their address and my name does not appear anywhere. They only know it is from me because I told them. Is it the N? Dont be stupid. Listen to LT…..but it is such a strange coincident………”
About this time my head exploded, I out on Person of Interest and had an ice cream bar.
Today…….well I am still better but not normal. OMG.
I will watch Dr Foster after I am done with Person of Interest. Promise. I have they have netflix in the looney bin as that is where I am headed.
lol Kim e, Netflix in the loony bin. I tend to agree with HG and think it was an Amazon mix up especially if you order it often. You ask who else would know? Well, Amazon knows. Maybe you asked Alexa and don’t remember? (Hahaha, I won’t have one of those things in my house but there’s a great meme going around – Alexa, Impeach Trump.) Don’t let it get to you. You could interpret just about anything as being a ‘message’ from the N. I forgot that I have 3 fake friend requests at the moment. You will forget about this too.
SMH
I reread what I wrote and forgot one important bit of information. I get that kind BUT I do not order it from Amazon. I order from Walmart!!!!!
The bottle it comes in sits out on my kitchen counter next to my protein mix as I used themboth daily.
Makes it a whole lot stranger…HUH!!!????
Kim e, That does make it stranger but but but…it’s not him. You ordered it from Amazon in your sleep, then canceled it, but they sent it anyway??!!
SMH…….OK???!!!!????? LOL
I threw it in the garbage even tho it was sealed shut…….
Kim e, Do you think he poisoned it? 🙂
SMH…….
LOL….I just could not bring myself to keep it.
Kim e, You shouldn’t keep anything that reminds you of him, poisoned or not.
SMH…I gotta get over the hump where I always go back. I know HG says it is all instinct with MRN but his instinct must tell him that I am good for this period of time and then I undo NC. I need to get past that point.
Just thinking out loud. Thanks for the sounding board.
Kim e, I sometimes wonder about that instinct too. My longest NC was six months. Two were one month each, one was two months, and one was three weeks. It has now been 18 months. But I guess part of the pattern is also who would normally break NC. In my case, I normally would so if I don’t, I highly doubt he will. Just get over the hump (in my case, it would have been six months) and things will improve.
SMH,
So bizarre and kinda scary that after 18 months you can tell me with percision how long each of your NC’s were!!!! And each one of those NC’s was done by me. And yes…it was always me that broke NC……..not by contacting him but by opening the door for whenever he wanted to walk back in it. Not sure as his reality is different then mine (SURPRISE) but the last 2 or 3 times I went NC was like right after we had seen each other and had a nice time or after a lot of communication between us to where things seemed peachy. Wonder what he thinks about the timing? Or does it not phase him at all….LOL
A normal guy would be like,,,,”this bitch is nuts…WTH….we we doing great”
Kim e, lol. Yes, it is etched in my brain as if it were all yesterday (or many yesterdays).
Have you watched Dr Foster? Two seasons on Netflix. It is like that! Is she the crazy one or is he? Jodie Comer is in it – she also played the psycho in Killing Eve (or was Eve the psycho?) And then there is The Fall – is the detective the psycho or is the serial killer the psycho? I watched The Fall way back when I was involved with MRN. It was during a moment in that series that the light bulb suddenly went on in my head. Oh duh. He is like a serial killer and I am like the detective with the dark side.
One thing I know for sure is that we are all crazy or we wouldn’t be on here! Wear it like a badge :).
SMH….
F’g A…I earned every bit of it my badge!!!!!
I just added Dr. Foster to my list on Netflix. I found The Fall on Prime Video from amazon but there are quite a few of them. Do you have Prime videos’? If so which one is it? If not is it a movie? A series? Always looking for good stuff to watch
Kim e, The Fall is on Netflix too. It’s a British series set in Northern Ireland. Brits do these well! I wonder why. Haha. I earned my badge too. As I said to MRN: I slept with a psychopath!! Notch in belt.
Strange…I can not fine The Fall on my Netflix. Only titles related to.
But I do see it on Amazon so I will watch it there. Is Gillian Anderson in it?
Kim e, Yes Gillian Anderson stars in it. Maybe it isn’t on Netflix anymore? But still, if you can watch it, do.
SMH. The Fall is on Netflix if Gillian is in it. There are a lot of The Fall on Netflix. Just wanted to make sure I got the right one. Tally ho
Kim e, Great. Watch Dr Foster first. It’s shorter and fresher in my head! Tally Ho yourself !!
SMH….ET Very high today….just about unblocked before I decided to type to you. GGGGGRRRRRR……..this sucks…so many ups and downs….it is around my give in time again…….I am trying……..
Kim e, Was going to say the same – my ET has been high today too. No idea why – I think I am not as busy and my mind drifts. I had all these visions of MRN ‘happy’ with someone else (no idea who the someone else was but it wasn’t IPPS). It does suck but I am making a conscious decision to drift my mind to married work gigolo instead :). Anyone else in your sights?
SMH……
Married work gigolo…..sounds yummy…….lol
I have to get HIM out of my brain first to make room for anyone else.
Every day as I walk to the train I have to remember that I parked at the new lot today and which train car to get on.The old lot was the 3rd form the front…the new is the 3rd car fromthe back. Then I have to remember once I am on the train to remember to get off one stop before I used to. then when I get off the train I have to remember which side of the tracks I had to park on….thru the parking lot or in the pedestrain tunnel to my car. My brain hurts.
I came to a relazation today…..How to describe…….
I would unblock him if I knew for sure that it would always be ME that leaves. The thought of him disengaging really upsets maybe because I was diengaged and deleted before. Off the wall as that sounds if he is going to hoover he is going to hoover no mater who ended it.
I am so paranoid at this point that I do not go out and walk my 45 minutes at lunch for fear I will run into him. Electronically if he could get a hoover thru I would be fine. BUT if it was a physical hoover, I would fail miserably. I deflect these thoughts by telling myself he is too afraid to hoover me in person and I really was not that important in the matrix. Especailly since obviously he has an issue controlling me. ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!
Facial tonight. Hair cut, movie and drinks tomorrow.
I am also like you…I am bored…need something to happen
TTYL.
Kim e, The way you are talking about someone disengaging, either you or him, should make you (us) realize how abnormal the whole thing is. Even as IPSS, one should not have to face that risk every day. MRN only disengaged once BUT I always THOUGHT he was disengaging when in reality I was being shelved. That is what causes a lot of the anxiety. Intermittent reinforcement can really mess a person up. MRN never understood it. He saw it as me trying to control him. Enjoy your hair cut, movie and drinks, and not thinking about the train station tomorrow. Go for a long walk, since you can’t during the week .
Yes, 1,000 times, on intermittent reinforcement — or hot/cold behavior. All research shows this is the most damaging treatment, psychologically. We all know people can have moods or get busy, or have other valid reasons to not be responding or aloof, etc., and it’s *not* always a deliberate, manipulative tactic…but if there is one thing I ping on with people, it is this behavior. When I see it, I am way cautious, until I have time to see a pattern (or not) in them. Intermittent reinforcement makes the strongest of people feel weak and desperate for approval — it’s highly effective.
In every way, I back WAY up if I feel someone non-responsive after being particularly responsive to me. Here’s an example that I don’t *think* HG will mind, as I am putting it in proper context.
On the site, if I ask HG a question or comment to him directly and he’s friendly-like and answers back…but then the next time I do (I don’t directly engage him too often), and if he doesn’t answer at all, I back way off any engagement with him for a lengthy time — *not” because I expect him to always answer me (I don’t feel entitled), nor is it because I think he’s giving me a silent treatment (in fact, I give myself very logical reasons as to why I got no answer)…I back way off strictly because of how it makes me feel (not good at all, which tells me it reminds me of past treatment). So I am just aware of this, and I try not to set myself up to feel that way; it’s a vulnerability of mine, so I do what is best for me.
CIF,
Hot/cold behavior was the first thing I ever looked up regarding MRN!! No one had ever done that to me before so I had no idea what it was. I don’t remember how I found it but ’emotional unavailability’ came up a lot and thus began my journey. Of course I only got bad advice from the interwebs until I found HG. Now that I know what it is, I don’t tolerate it either. Guy I was dating a year ago this time did it too and I called him on it and then left. Again for me the problem with MRN was the lack of continuous reinforcement, not his emotional shallowness. It is one of the things that I asked him to stop doing when the affair part began, and he did stop for awhile – about a month. But he could not sustain it because to him it meant that we were in contact every day but that’s not what it is about and of course I couldn’t explain it.
HG used to trigger me too for other reasons (bluntness for example) so I think that trigger will pass for you too eventually. I did once ask early on why something was still in moderation but I don’t think I’ve done that for a long time now. If HG doesn’t answer, I might ask again. I see how many people are on this site and I try not to ask too much unless there is something that really fascinates me, including about HG himself (he often does not answer those questions and I don’t ask those again). I also now have a lot of the answers to the Qs I used to have. The only thing that occasionally triggers me now is when HG leaves without telling us (shelving). I think that was the last ‘argument’ I had with him and that was awhile ago too.
So all of this is by way of saying that I totally understand but it will pass as your ET calms down. I’m not going to say as you get your ET ‘under control’ because I don’t think that’s entirely how it happens. You can’t will your ET to die. I think it is at least partly connected to hormones which are triggered by behaviors, including stress and lack of sleep (as I just mentioned to Kim e). So getting mentally healthy means taking care of your body too. The body will take care of the mind. I am fascinated by things like a possible connection between gut bacteria and autism…
SMH,
I remember that thread, about you being mad about “no prior warning,” lol. I think I was involved in expressing HG’s side of things, while also understanding why it upset you. The end result was pretty good. HG always reigns on-site, but with a measure of benevolence, when he so chooses.🕊
I 100% agree with you, on physical fitness being super important to mental (and emotional) health. I wouldn’t be my fully joyful self without swimming. Again, with the water.😉 I am active in dance, horseback riding and biking too, but I swim every day in the summer — & usually 3-4 days the rest of the year. Oh, & for sure~there’s significant research to indicate the autism/gut link.
It sounds better to say it’s my ET, on the HG question thing with me…but upon deeper reflection, it may actually be worse…it may be a narcissistic quality of mine (cringe), because I have a goal to get my question answered (to win) — & I don’t want to be set up (to lose). Maybe that is why it feels bad. Ugh, that’s not good…I do not think I will ask him another question, ever, unless I need a consult. 😑
Well, I’ve got myself bandaged up & am feeling pretty darn secure in my ankle boots, for a late-afternoon meeting. Have a most beautiful fall day, SMH & Kim~Get out there & kick up some leaves🍂🍁
CIF,
It is not a bad thing to have narc qualities. I have them too but I am proud of them :). Mine are part of the reason why I told MRN that I was fine as IPSS. I did not want to lose so I refused to enter into a battle. I didn’t do this out of compassion or because I did not care. I did care – when I met him I did not even know about IPPS – but I can also be strategic. In fact, I thought at several points that our wires were so crossed that really he wanted me to tell him that I loved him and wanted to be his primary. That was probably true just so he could triangulate me more effectively but I think I once tried to explain to him that if I had gone for that, it would have been a mess. Even had I ‘won,’ his family and kids would hate me. Nothing good would come of it. I really did feel that way – that there was no solution. But that didn’t mean that I did not care. I just pretended not to care because my ego is massive (in case you did not notice :)) and I refused to lose.
In the end, I was semi-honest and did tell him that he had to be out of his marriage if he wanted contact with me. But my reasoning was not that I was jealous but that for me it got in the way of us being able to figure out our own relationship – that is, it complicated my relationship with him. That’s what I said! Ballsy, huh! But I also told him that I was unable to forgive him for lying to me, and that was true too. It’s complicated but I can be pretty calculating, which is why I think a lot of it was so stressful for me. Constant mind games that I had to play for my own sanity.
I am impressed by your physical fitness! I would also swim 3 or 4 days a week if I could. It is my favorite thing to do because it is total sensory deprivation but alas I have no swimming pools nearby.
SMH
Hello. I needed to take a break. But missed you and our chats so it is your lucky day!
Work has been changing as my coworkers last day was yesterday. Looking to hire a replacement but As the process is long I do not look for that until the new year. I am moving my work cube on Tuesday which doesnt sound like a big deal but when I can now see N’s building from my current cube and not from the new cube it IS A BIG DEAL. AH…the joys of after the N.
My ET has calmed down…..it has been 8 weeks. RIght now I am 88% sure if I did see him I could ignore him where as 2 weeks ago it was 60%. Slowly but surely. Maybe it is a good thing that he is a MRN…as HG says…they dont really put any effort into anything. I still realize a hoover is always possible but right now I am not on a swivel any more. Also automatically go to the new train station now. Still dont like but have accepted
Cold as my narc’s heart here this coming week….only in the 20’s with wind chills below zero. It is really early for this to start already.
SO…tell me what is going on with you. Contact with OM? New renter? Married coworker? Perverted neighbor? LOL
I have come to realize something that I find very upsetting to me. We, like our N, categorize them as “our”….like they think they own us. I think that objectifies them as they do the same to us…ownership…..like they are not people. But then I guess it is just the dynamic and knowing that they think of us as objects. If I say “my Ex” without the N attached I guess it is the same thing………Not sure if that is ET, LT or just plan weird thoughts in Kim’s head…..LOL
Hello Kim e! It IS my lucky day! Happy to have you back but even happier to see that you are fine and even better than you were when you left! Awesome that narc will be out of your sight. When I read things like that, I thank my lucky stars that MRN and I live in different countries now. We are not at the moment that far from each other but no way will we ‘run into’ each other.
I am over whatever ever presence I was experiencing, though I found an old filtered FB message that FB removed to ‘verify the user’ from around the time of the initial hoover blast and IG changes. I also got another fake friend request (3 sitting there now). The newest thing is that someone from MRN’s city and country has been viewing a public FB page I have only been managing for about 2 months. Everyone is local and there are under 100 people following the page, so that is telling. But nothing I can do about it. It’s just something else to monitor.
I managed to NOT look at LinkedIn so I won’t be tempted to analyze the ‘private views’ of my profile. Mid-ranger too and probably a bit scared of me now, so I don’t expect any direct hoovers. You know during the FR I tried to warn him so many times that I am a slow burn but when I am lit, watch out. At one point I demanded that he pay for my therapist and said, ‘I am warning you about me.’ He said ‘I know.’ But did he really listen? No. (Didn’t pay for my therapist either!)
All is quiet in SMH world. No word from OM, haven’t seen perverted neighbor, new renter has not contacted me, and married work guy has been away the whole week. I am annoyed with the work people anyway, including with MWG, so I have been laying low.
The only drama on narcsite has been about the useless gift card I purchased to make a donation anonymously. Caused a kerfuffle but what the hey, it will all get resolved. Otherwise, I’ve been able to catch up with CIF but we both missed you!
It is cold here too. I am going to go to the gym and pick up my laundry. Thrilling! Hope you are having a good day. Muah!
SMH
Filtered FB postings? What are those and how did you find them?
I have been getting calls from foreign countries……!!! LOL
W and I never corresponded on FB but when we were together every Tuesday and Thursday night he went to kickboxing. And every T & T night he would post on the public page of his FB with the location and thanking the instructor for the great class. When I disobeyed and did not bow to his corrective devaluation and he deleted me (who does that) he stopped posted that information. So weird.
Ever presence is still there in smaller doses for me. I catch myself more often now instead of allowing myself to get sucked into it. I just tell myself it doesnt matter and change the narrative in my mind. I wont lie…he is far from gone but I am slowly moving on.
Went to a friends tonight. Played cards, ate pizza, watched a movie…was nice and relaxed. Hadnt seen her for about a month with me traveling for the wedding and both of us being sick. It was nice to catch up.
Sorry again that I just disappered but I was just feeling overwhelmed with ET. I saw the comment you made to CIF about you hoped it was not something you said. I can assure you it was not. I emailed HG and he was kind enough to reply. He told me it was my ET. Maybe so but I just knew I had to do it for me. I have NO intentions of contacting W. I also am not going to refer to him as my N or my MMRN as it is just so degrading to me. He might think of me as an appliance but he is a person to me. A person that broke my heart and has no soul or feelings but a person never the less. LOL
I did not work out all last week. I did not just leave you I left the world. Felt good and now I am back looking ahead to better days.
When you go to the gym, what type of training do you do?
Hi Kim e,
Here is what I am really doing at the moment – writing to you! Sounds like you had a nice time with your friend. I am happy to hear that normalcy is returning. There are lots of good things about your life. You don’t need a narc in it at all to enjoy it. Better days are indeed ahead. As ET lowers, the normal seems interesting again – and it is!
Sometimes, you just need to hibernate. I do it too! But I find online mostly calming and a distraction – something to focus on. It’s when my mind wanders that ET rises. I often don’t even feel like I am connected to MRN on here – seems like it happened to someone else. Anyway, thanks for confirming that it wasn’t me. I thought maybe we were getting into too detailed a discussion of hoovers.
Today I had a long transatlantic call with a psychologist friend. We had not spoken for awhile but I always turn to her when I am stressed because she is very clear eyed, has almost no ET (not a narc just very calm and British), practical, gives good advice. I once texted her in a panic while MRN was emailing me post escape – ‘what does he want?’ ‘Where is his wife?’ etc. She also held my hand back when I was emailing with IPPS – I’d tell her what IPPS wrote, she’d tell me what to say and how to respond. She also instructed me to tell my ExHL he was bullying me when he sent me 8 emails one right after the other. I’m such a baby! lol. Can’t handle my relationships at all, at least not the narc ones.
I told this friend about the IG and she immediately responded ‘IPPS kicked him out. Even if she did not believe you at the time, it was there in the back of her mind. She must have started putting two and two together, filling in the gaps and lapses.’ She kind of confirmed what I already thought without me prompting it at all. If I am still having repercussions, I can only hope he is too!
Filtered FB messages- if someone messages you on FB and you are not connected to that profile either through your friends or from a group or page, FB filters it into a separate inbox but doesn’t notify you. I only see them via FB on my laptop – not on my mobile Messenger app – and only when I look. I’m not looking right now but if you go to Messenger within FB (not the app) and click on the gearbox (I think) it will tell you if you have filtered messages. I only found it now even though it is a month old because I have no reason to check and FB doesn’t notify. They left a message with the date and time saying they removed it because the sender was not verified as a real person. I’ve had other ones very rarely that FB did not remove – just regular people trying to hook up with someone on FB. If you respond then the person can see your response but if you do not respond, it ends right there.
Speaking of real people, sometimes I say ‘my N’ if someone doesn’t know who I am referring to, but using MRN does allow me to mostly bypass ‘my’ and ‘mine.’ It’s just a name I gave him. I went with Excel for awhile as a joke about spreadsheets but he will always be MRN to me! Maybe I will even forget his real name. It has happened!
W (see? that’s better) must have been posting that kick boxing info just for you either because he wanted you to admire him or because he got thought fuel out of you looking at his public page. He had no reason to do it anymore once he deleted you. Could he be calling you from a foreign number? That makes my head spin. No idea how that would work.
I strength train to work out. I started years ago when I had lower back problems and it continues because as we age, bones and muscles deteriorate and those things hold up your body. I don’t want to be a hunchback! lol. I use free weights and some of the weight machines. I can do it all in 45 minutes. Apparently, running once a week is the best thing for life extension. Maybe I will work on that too. They say it can get you high! lol!
SMH,
So the new train station actually is a blessing in disguise. I now just bring my work out clothes with me and go to the gym right from the train. It is like 5 minutes. I can not take the 5:00 classes and be home by 6:15 instead of going home, hanging for 45 minutes, driving 15 minutes to gym and then back home afterwards not getting home until 715 or later. I also now get my nails done on a week night for the same reason as opposed to spending my weekend time doing it.
Must have been written in the stars.
Today is Veterans Day so my ET is kinda high as he is active duty. (my 2 sins are both veterans) Should not count for W as he is active duty still but he gets fuel out of telling people he is a vet because he was regualr army and now is reseves. As HG would say….TWAT!!!!!
I checked and have no filtered stuff on FB. I did have 2 freiends requests this morning. They are both in a group I am in and we have 1 mutual friend. The one looked to narcy for me….too many friends, in too many groups, not enough information. The other seemed ok, owes a bar (BINGO) FB page looked ok, if he starts anything, I will checkk out the story with our mutual friend. For now he is just another FB friend.
The foreign numbers….they didnt even phase me really other then for me to think…WTH. Dont know think or care if it was W. The only reason other than my ET was very high, that I thought those other numbers were him from spoofed numbers is because they would come in clusters….like cluster fucks……3 this day, 2 this day, none for a week. The only calls that I will from now on attribute to him will be no caller ID or unknown caller. Those 2 I know are him because you ahve to make a consious effort to block the number you are calling from before you dial.
Wieght lifting is my favorite. I enjoy it all but I like that the best. Running gets you high because of lack of oxygen and you feel high just before you pass out……LOL. Never really got in to it.
Lunch almost over and I have to go find dessert. TTYL
Kim e,
You really made me lol with that line about running. That’s what I come here for – the jokes!
I am not surprised that the new station is working out for you – we are flexible, not rigidly routinized like some people we know.
You call them clusters, I call them bursts – bursts o’hoover. Haven’t had any for awhile but I have not looked at LinkedIn either. My ET has been pretty low this week and I haven’t been doing much of anything. I have even retreated from work. I am taking off for the rest of the year – poke my head in here and there but that’s it. Well, I do have a busy week ahead and then travel next weekend – I’d rather lie on the sofa for most of it but needs must. Maybe I will pamper and get my nails done too. It is giving me time to work out as much as I want to.
Glad you got through this V day. I don’t follow military stuff so don’t understand why W is not a vet – because he is in the reserves? Aren’t military people veterans of this or that war, even if they are still active?
Careful with the friend requests. I don’t know why I get so many ‘spam’ ones along with messages, unless it really is MRN (which part of my brain does not believe). Kind of like you not attributing all your calls to W.
OR W spam calls you and MRN FB spams me. Only they really know and they will deny it.
SMH & CIF
So today is I guess a step in my ET go away process. My ET has lowered enough and my LT has come up emough to realize the fact that I never ment any thing to him. And shit it hurt. I hae had those thoughts before but always thought it away by rationalizing that no one means anything to him and I would just throw myslef inot that group. I would consider myself “lucky” that I really knew what was going on and that made me a step ahead of the “others” including the IPPS. Now it just all makes me sad. Sad for all involved….including W.
Now do not take this as my LT has won….OH far from it. It is still there. My LT also said to me this morning that chances are high that I will not ever see him again…not hear from but physically never see him. That sent a shock wave thru my ET. My stomach dropped and my heart crushed. My ET is still high enough that I hope for a hoover but my LT dreads it at the same time. I know I am going to defeat the ET within but this truly sucks. All this because of a TWAT that never gave 2 shits.
I am getting off my soap box now. Thanks for letting me vent. Hugs and Smoochies
Kim,
This is a whole lot of progress, doll. Reading this, I can see you balancing yourself out, in reasoning & comfort…I notice it, because I tend to give those two elements (logic + comfort) TO people, so when I see someone start doing it more for themselves, it really warms my heart. I think one of the most important things is to be a kind friend to *ourselves*, and I do really see you doing that more & more. It’s one the best gifts you can give yourself…and it even makes you able to give more (in a healthy way) to others.
Proud of ya.💖
CIF.
Thanks for the kind words. I have noticed that when my LT goes up, my ET is fierce It is fighting like hell to stay alive.
My biggest hurrdle right now is still the worry about a hoover. I know I should not worry about it but I think it is the last bit of ET trying to hang on.
And also…so weird that when I saw HG put up the Crumbs post today, my stomach flip flops…not sure why.
OH well…….life is proceeding
Kim,
The “Crumbs” article probably just reminded you of the most unpleasant aspects of the narc engagement, which is understandable…as you keep on with your NC, I’m sure that will get better & better, hon.
With your anxious feelings about a hoover, is there a way I can help you with that? I have come into an acceptance frame of mind that he will hoover (he’s been doing it, in retrospect, since the FR ended — I just didn’t know they were hoovers).
So I’d be glad to share how I got to a calm place on it, beforehand. Prior to this totally unexpected hoover, I had *acted* calm (with workplace hoovers), but I actually had some nerves with it. I think because this hoover was my big fear, it was like: “Ok, this is what you worried about, so it’s happening. You can just handle it now.” So I totally get it — how hoovers can throw you, and how you have to work through it – to overcome that aspect.
We can talk about how you feel about a possible hoover, more specifically – and maybe some steps you can do now to feel more confident, if/when it happens. I’d be happy to try to help. If you don’t want to talk about it at all, I will understand that too.🤍
CIF Thanks for the offer of talking about a hoover. I, like you, have accepted that it is going to happen and life goes on. The more my LT takes over the more I realize he is a MRN and, as HG lovingly refers to them, a twat!! W will hide behind my work phone for his hoovers as the only other choice he really has is a proximity hoover which he will not do for fear of wounding. So…….I am good.
Thanks again.
Kim,
I understand.🤍
Kim e, yes, it is painful. I have had the same realization and the same LT/ET battle about it. My LT knows that I am meaningless. My ET thinks we are soulmates. LOL. How to reconcile the two? In all honesty, when I think about seeing MRN again, I tense up. Then in my mind I compare him to other men I know or have known, not with respect to my attachment but with respect to how they are as people and I am convinced again that MRN is sick – that there is something fundamentally wrong with him (I mean I know that but in this scenario I feel it) and that truly I would never let him near me again. I think for me it is one of those ‘follow the thoughts’ things – just follow them to their logical conclusion. What do I reach? A void where a complex soul should be! Hugs and smoochies back!
SMH,,,,I did ROFLMAO at the soulmate remark. That is exactly where I am. Glad my LT is I believe in front of my ET now. BUT give me 5 minutes and that could change. Jeez…talk about push and pull, Only difference is this time it is ME pushing and pulling myself. (get your mind out of the gutter).
My mind has not really reconciled that he is “different”. It just says you had a good time…time to move on. It is the ever presence shit that drives me crazy. Some times as I am going to sleep he will creep into my thoughts and I literally say GO AWAY W. I need sleep. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and he is no where in sight and other times I wake up and BINGO…he is there before my thoughts realize it.
Oh well…….I have signed up for work out classes 3 nights a week starting next week thru December. Ten I have 1 night at the chiropractor thru January(?), By the time I am done I will be able to bench press you and my arm will function properly again and W had better be the F out of my head.
Today it is 9 weeks. HG says it takes 6 months of absolute NC for the ET to be at a level where I am pretty well able to see W and not give a shit……I wish I could get to the point where I gave about as much of a shit as W did.
Time to go read about the 50 nicest places in America. Wonder how many are bars…LOL
lol Kim e, pushing and pulling ourselves are we? And you’re gonna bench press me? Is that a promise or a threat? In all seriousness, I am glad you are taking control – so stubborn and determined – like me. I’ve also been working out a lot – 5x or so in the past week. It’s not because of MRN Just that I have the time and like doing it. I did it when I was with him too so at first it triggered me (as did my workout music). But that is mostly gone. My body, my mind, my life!!
You know I once told MRN that he owned me? Post escape he told me where he was moving and I joked, ‘well, I guess I am moving there too because you own me.’ He laughed. They are aware of what they do…
HG is correct (of course). Six months is about par for the course. Last year this time would have been six months for me. I started dating someone else and the next four months passed quickly, though he was kind of an asshole too. Find some jerk to date?
Little gifts for me on FB this afternoon. Another fake friend request from a handsome guy (that makes four sitting in my account) along with … drum roll…a filtered message that got through (I noticed because a FB extension alerted me). What does it say? ‘Hi X (my name).’ Can bots actually read your name and compose a message? I dunno. I haven’t looked at LinkedIn in a few weeks now. Wonder what’s happening there…
SMH……
Hope CIF is ok. She is on my mind today.
Thanks for the confindence that I am taking control. It is still a day to day process. Sometimes I write that I am so proud of myself because I made a baby step, like not triggering. Then that same day in the afternoon, my ET is so high I just want to scream. I want to get the hell out of my own skin. My ET really doesnt tell me any more what I want…it is as F’d up as I am. It is that damn P & P I talked about. Yesterday W wasnt hardly in my world at all and today……….WHAM……….there he is. This sucks….truly.
I have never fully got used to the time change we had. I think it is time to go to bed as I am so tired but when I look at the clock it is 630!!!!!!! OMG…….dragging my ass anywhere is a struggle kinda like when I was with W. Is that ET or what?
Every time I go NC it seems to get harder. I am more exhausted.
Have to listen to Zero Impact today while I am working. Have a feeling it is gonna be a bad one.
I wish W would move. And I wish I did not have to take the train…that is a slight trigger to me. ENOUGH >>>>>>>>>>>
Some jerk to date? Isnt that what I am trying to forget that I did…LOL. I get what you mean. When I went to the wedding and met sweet Noel, as we sat there talking, I found myself getting very unlike me with him. I questioned him on everything he said like an interrogation. The next time we talked, I said something I am not proud of to him and he said, “hide behind it but I know it hurts”. It was like he knew my defense was up. that blew my mind and he was right. There is no way in hell I could date anyone right now. I am too bruised crushed hurt and worst of all…I am pissed. The pissed part is the scariest to me as it really has not surfaced yet. I have not yet process that emotion. When I do it will not be pretty. But I can not take it out on the wrong people. WELL>>>>maybe my ex that broke my heart 13 years ago and really started my downward spiral.
OMG…I am depressing myself today.
I have gotten a couple of calls this week with no messages left. The guy I friended on FB is innocent. I think he just just looking for pages to spread info about the bar he owns and the goings on at it.
W’s hoovering of me when I went NC before was to decorate my car (which is not gone) and text (which he is blocked from). So……………
How do you know the FB requests are fake?
Kim e, I hope CIF is okay too. Sounds like she got a gigantic hoover, which is a good warning for us. CIF, hope you check in soon.
The FB stuff feels like the hoovers are getting more direct, especially because the one yesterday included my name and a message. I know they are fake profiles because they have no friends and nothing on their profile except random locations and generic pictures, which are all similar to each other. Reminds me of MRN’s “real” fake profile. The name is the one he uses on his email (different from the one he at first gave me in person, though same initials), and no one in the world has that name. It has a location (where he lives) but no pictures. That one has not hoovered me because of course I would know it was him. In fact, I cannot imagine that he uses it for anything other than silent stalking. If he gives out the fake name and someone Googles it, they will know that no one by that name exists.
Anyway, I feel like I am being targeted but I do not know why or by whom. My suspicions of course fall on MRN. I really have no idea but who else would send four fake friend requests in the last month right after I noticed the IG changes and the LinkedIn visits? It’s all too coincidental. I feel like answering the current message with ‘Hi MRN” to see what happens. But if I do that, the fake will have better access to my profile. Plus, I know HG would not approve!
It is normal for your ET to spike like that – remember that you are going through a withdrawal – that feeling of wanting to get out of your own skin. Dating someone else is a substitution for the ‘narc’ drug. It works for the time that the relationship lasts – it even worked for me with OM. But as I have said, for me the walls always go up after a few dates. No one has been able to crack me, and I have had A LOT of dates over the past few years. Last year I was pretty angry too – hypersensitive. Now, not so much. Do you speak with Noel? Or is that just the convo at the wedding?
I agree that it is all exhausting but I also promise that it will get easier. I hope your day has been good after all, and you have some plans for the weekend. I have a dinner tonight and going away for a few days tomorrow but I will have my computer and will check back. Hugs.
SMH & Kim,
Thanks for your sweetness. I am doing fine. I just needed a minute. After taking time to think it through, I have decided I will do nothing different than what I’m doing. I’m at peace.
Who is Noel? I will ignore that his name starts with an “N” & keep an open mind.😎 I must have missed some posts. Was he born on Christmas Day?😎
SMH…I got my massage today, went on an hour long hike, ate pretty healthy, watched a movie and told off W for 10 minutes…..out loud in my car as I was driving. I almost said F it and unblocked him so I could do it in person. I thought I dont care if I give him fuel, I need to say this and then close the book. BUT then that HG guy popped into my brain and I said….”just ignore him and wound him.” I think that HG guy is stalking me and he is a narc. I have to keep an eye on him. He has been in my thoughts a lot lately controlling them. !!!!!!!
I had not “dated” for 10 years when I met W. I had dated the previous guy for 7 years and was devastated when he went home and told his wife he wanted a divorce!!! Sounds bizzarre but I was perfectly content with things the way they were. He lived in a different state, was very well off, took me on vacations, bought me things,Helped pay my bills. Yet I was free to do what I wanted most of the time. anyways……. If I was out with friends and a guy would start talking to me I was ok as long as he did not get in my space. Once that was breached I would literally back away. With W I did not back away BUT I did not go towards him either. It was like I was stuck.
I have not spoke with Noel. He is a friend of my son. Not sure of his age….guessing between 35 and 45. I owe him an apology for being a bitch towards him when he did not deserve it. I am sure I will see him again when I go to visit then I will apologize and see if he accepts it. I am done being a cougar. W is 25 years younger than me…..and I got tired of him NOT keeping up with me!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope your trip went well. TTYL. Smoochies
Kim e,
You are really on this exercise thing. Good for you! Have you watched Dr Foster yet??!!
I did not want MRN to leave his wife either, so it doesn’t sound bizarre to me at all. I was fine with the situation, though not with the dynamic, and I did not want the drama of the fallout. I do wonder if she has taken the initiative now. It shouldn’t matter to me of course! Still, I had a surge of ET last night in a bar – very strong. I slept it off.
Someone (age appropriate) hit on me at the bar too – he was with his wife (friends of friends) but I did not know who he was, did not initiate talking, and did not realize what was happening. Within seconds his wife checked in because she noticed. Reminds me of neighborhood guy and his wife.
Do I really want the stress of worrying about whether my husband is hitting on other women? Do I want to have to look after a grown child? Nope, nope, nope. If I could be with MRN in a bubble on another planet that would be great. But forget real life on earth. It would never work.
Glad you did not break NC due to our niggling conscience HG. I want to ask him if he thinks MRN has been hoovering me but I think it will take a consultation. It’s all too convoluted (in MRN’s singular way). And again, what does it matter??!
Hope your day is good. I feel like going back to sleep.
SMH…it has been so cold here that I just needed to get outside and get some air and sun. It was a nice day. Getting to the gym is a true struggle for me. Mondays are ok but the rest of the week is a true struggle. BUT this week I am going to start 3 day a week work outs. Gives me time to clear my head……..No Dr. Foster yet. I have it on my list. Right now watching Ray Donovan. I promise the good Dr will be next!!!
This ET stuff sucks. It is just so weird how one minute I can be thinking about buying apples and the next W is all over my brain. And from the sounds of it, he will never truly be out of my brain. Even after 6 months. For right now I am just trying to get to 3 months………day by day.
Sorry your ET surged….hope it did not ruin your evening.
His wife checked in within seconds cuz she is used to him hitting on other women. Scarey world out there…………………Nope, I am not into babysitting my man either. But to be totally truthful the relationship with W is the only relationship I ever had where I was faithful. Wonder if I would have remained so if W and I stayed together……
Off to a new week. Boss in town to help me with some SQL stuff. Then Friday we are interviewing a new coworker for me. Beginning of the year I am going for a promotion and new stuff at work. I need to get W out of my brain a lot more then he is now so I can concentrate on things. I think I need to listen to HG talking in my head again about Zero Impact.
Did you go back to sleep? I just did Sunday stuff like cleaning and laundry…..
Kim e, I did not go back to sleep. Too much to do.
Re ever presence: I had a similar relationship once before but longer and more involved. That guy was stuck in my head too but one day his mother called to say that he was in jail. At that moment, the ever presence was gone and I was mentally free. I don’t think he did what he was accused of but I had warned him that someone was going to kill him because he would mess with the wrong person. I was right then and I am certain that MRN will pay too. I just have no way to verify it without breaking NC, which I won’t do.
It never ends unless, as HG says, one of us “dies.” Since I will never know for certain if MRN has “died,” he will always be in my head. I don’t know how to get rid of it or how to control it either and no, chances are it will not be gone after six months. The best thing to do is to substitute with another ‘drug’ or by transference to another person. Lots of people experience limerence, which is what I think ever presence is. It is akin to OCD and maybe a lot of us are prone to OC behaviors. I know I can be very obsessive in other areas of my life too.
I don’t have a history of cheating or being cheated on, though I have been the cheatee (?) a few times. I cheated once long ago and am still paying for it, as I think many people on here are. I don’t like relationship drama because it distracts from other things in my life. Would have been happy with MRN without the chaos.
Yes, I realized during what was not more than 60 seconds that his wife was right on it. I did not know who he was but he knew who I was.
What does SQL mean? I think it’s very healthy to put your energies into work as well as into working out. Will be rooting for you to get the promotion and I hope you like your new coworker!
SMH
I have no urge to see him at all. The ever presense can kiss my ass. I think about old boyfriends and I guess he will just have to fall in that category.
Sitting here eating a salad wiaitn for the 3rd conference call of the day. Weight lifted one day this week…tooo swamped or tired the other days. Just cancelled my chiro appt for tonight as I am here late again. Pisses me off cuz this is something that could have been done in increments over the months but my boss choose to do it all at one time so now it is hurry up!!!!! AAAHHHH when I am queen………….
I got a couple calls this week but just ignored them. If it is him, he doesnt realize he gets more of a reaction from the No Caller ID calls as I know for sure those are him.
My ET is still too high to substitute for another “living” drug. Think I will just chill for the rest of the year. My 6 months is up in March.
OH yea…I forgot to tell you. A guy at the New parking lot is moving and he is going to sell me his spot. So I dont have to go broke with the higher parking fee as his spot is locked into the old price until 9/2020. Depending on the weather here, if it is really icy or snow is really bad at the buttcrack of dawn when I leave, I will park at the old lot but just no where near the spots I used to parkk in. As it is I have to leave 15 minutes earlier than I used to which doesnt sound like alot until I say it is 0515 wehe I leave my house for the new lot. If the weather sucks, I would have to leave at 445. Sorry ET…you will have to deal with it those days.
Gotta run. The bastards cancelled the call and did not tell me. Goign to finish my salad and continue on.
Wonder where CIF is. Did I miss something?
Kim e, I don’t know where CIF is either. For a minute or two the past few days I thought HG had kicked me off the site because I was hardly getting notifications. But then I realized I’ve mostly been interacting with you and CIF, so if you two are not here, I got nothin’!
I can’t imagine leaving for work at 4:45 in the middle of winter in Chicago. Oh wait, yes I can! Don’t envy you at all. One Chicago winter I woke to my car having been physically moved by someone – pushed half a block away. I think it was a snowplow driver.
That’s great news about the parking lot and good you are ignoring the calls and your ET is not spiking too much anyway. This is progress! When I was going through the worst of it, it really helped to go back and read my comments here and see how I had changed. You sound a lot less stressed than when I first interfered in your convo with CIF :). Remember how I told HG that you would make it even if you went to dinner with N? You’re making me proud (and smug). Keep at it. March isn’t far away and you can blossom again with the spring flowers 🌺 and yes, one day you will be Queen. Just don’t give birth to a Prince Andrew.
Okay, I gotta go out into the big bad city now and find my friend on a street corner in the dark.
SMH & Kim,
Holy Hellish Travel, Batman…I (and work peeps) are exhausted, as everything known to man has gone wrong while traveling today (since 5 a.m.)…and we are STILL on the road. I wanted you to know, so you didn’t worry…I sent you both a comment (day before yesterday – or yesterday? I’ve lost all track of time), but I got no reply from you guys either, so maybe our notifications did get messed up…I think my comments went through, but you may need to dig for them – sorry, I somehow feel whatever happened is my fault because of my tech inadequacies — I swear that everything electronic goes haywire when I show up.😭
I hope this goes through!
XO,
CIF
CIF, Forgot you were traveling. You did tell us that! Sorry it sucks but hope you arrive safely to wherever you are going. xo
SMH…Sorry but I just had an AHA moment.
I have been saying I have to move my parking because of HIM. This is not correct. I have to move my parking because of ME. For ME. Me and my sanity. Me and my future. I ahve to stop blaming everything on HIM and take responsibility for ME!!!!!!!!!!!
I just lost 50 pounds!!!
Logic breakthrough.
Finally.Thanks HG
Kim e
A subtle change in thinking but huge shift towards where you want to be. Think more about Kim -not him. Cheering you on.
Kim e, Nothing to apologize for. That is amazing that you lost 50 pounds!! Hope there are no loose bits :). And yes, you do things for YOU, not for him. You are in charge of your life. He is not. Nor are you in charge of his life (our caretaker impulses). Disentangling yourself that way – consciously telling yourself that you are a separate person and your responsibility is to yourself – is part of breaking his grip.
With MRN I said (after I dissected his marriage): “I suspect you will find another IPSS if you don’t leave your marriage. I don’t respect that choice but it’s your life, not mine.” I also said: “You are unhappy but I am not the source of your unhappiness so I cannot make you happy.” I did not say “you don’t make me happy?” That was true too but I wanted to fuck with his head. I wanted him to still think that I was being “nice” while I was really undermining him, so I made him the pitiful unhappy one. My life is good. Yours sucks. I’m great. You’re a bore.
I thought that was the end of it but I did not know about IGHs…
SMH……LOL, Your LI views go up…….mine wnet down!!!
I decided to keep trackof my views also and on Friday I noted 24 profile views. This morning I look and it is down to 23!!!!! How does that even happen?
SMH….interesting about the Kratom. I am going to check it out. I am not sure if this is against the rules HG, but if I ask SMH for the contact infor for the place in CA, can she give it to me?
I was talking to my son about the wedding yesterday and he is having an Edibles bar!!!!!!! Joints for smoking, mints, cookies, and CBD oil to just chill. This wedding is looking up!!!! IT kinda took me aback when he said it but then I thought OH YEA…they are in WA state. It is legal. My sister is freaking out about it but shit…I always was the black sheep of the family. Cant wait until her son, who will be at the wedding, lights one up. LOL. Illinois legalized recreational starting in January. The town I live in, is up in arms about how if it is sold here it will ruin their family friend reputation. I call total hypocrites on that. So it is ok to go to all these great family friendly events and drink all day BUT pot is out???? Guess it is from the generation I grew up in. I know it is not harmful, especially not that it will be regulated. My girlfriend has edible gummies from her cancer treatment. A nibble is relaxing, a bite and yep I am stoned!!!
I hope you decide to meet up with O man again. I think you enjoyed the company. And you know he is not a N so my vote is yes!!!!!!
I do believe in tarot and astrology. MY N is 2 fixed signs. I am a gumble of different ones. All my taro reading since the N entered my life have mentioned his signs and have been right on about the no emotions, one sidedness, NC, coming back around. Have not really decided if that holds true for a N as they play from a different set of rules, BUT the astrology sign attributes I would think apply to all under that sing.
Yes. I got a dress. Love it.
I am right handed…..thanks for asking…..now you have made my ET go really high…..lol
OH yea…blocking the Hangouts guy as he is becoming increasing clingy. OK HG….stop saying I told you so.
I have 2 sons. One in Seattle and the other just moved from Denver to San Jose CA. It is the one in Seattle that is getting married.
Kim e, I am right handed too. Never noticed what MRN was, same as I did not notice whether he wore his wedding ring :). The small details sometimes escape me!
Kratora is the name of the place in CA. Don’t see why HG would mind. It’s like posting Target or Walmart and kratom is legal in the US (not in the UK). It’s not like a pot high – at least not for me. Read up on it. There are long discussions on reddit and places like that. I don’t remember where I first heard about it but I was trying to get off of something (what I do not remember – but I do not do street drugs anymore) and it worked like a charm.
I put the powder in a mug and pour boiling water over it, let it steep and cool, and drink it up. It tastes gross but the residue stays at the bottom of the mug. I tried many ways to take it but this is the best way for me. And as I mentioned, it is an appetite suppressant so you don’t need food! Ha. I don’t think I ate today at all – oh wait, some leftover rice noodles and one shrimp.
I know what you mean about Ns playing by a different set of rules. I get along best with Virgos – a husband and an ex long-term partner even had the same Virgo birthday. HG is a Virgo! Go figure. But he is more like MRN than he is like any of the Virgos I know. It is just coincidence that MRN is an air sign.
I should have my tarot cards done and will contact OM because you are right – I had a good time with him. If he doesn’t answer it just means that all of his ott-ness was hot air and he is a fake.
The wedding sounds like the wedding to end all weddings or are Edibles bars a thing in the northwest? I haven’t been to a wedding in ages so do not know what the current wedding state of affairs is anywhere. I would love to see pictures but can’t, sadly. You are pretty talented at description/atmosphere, though, so I await that! And it is awesome that you have two sons! I wish I could clone mine and keep one here with me.
SMH. Since pot is legal in WA state, anything edible is a thing. It will be a first I am sure for a lot of wedding attendies. My sister who is 10 years younge than I, was taken aback when I told her. I thought…sure sit there and drink 15 beers and then judge all the druggies. If she only knew all the illegal drugs I used to do, she would die.
I described the dress on a different reply.
Details of wedding, if I rememebr…lol, to follow.
The thing I am really looking forward to is being out of my world where my N lives. Tiem to unwind and hope the fucker leaves my poor work phone alone while I am gone!!!
Kim e, Yes, travel is great medicine. I hope you have a fantastic time and your sister gets stoned! Safe travels!
Kim,
❤Three concepts to keep in mind — that you need to gird yourself with — for successful NC:
1) Discipline…
At times of weakness (hoovers, for instance) or just sheer boredom, your will power for NC can fly out the window; be prepared for this, as you’ll need to dig deeper. There is no substitute for disciplining yourself to not indulge your addiction. You set your mind to resist. You maintain strength. You act as you know you should. It’s simple but true: You either do give in – or you do not give in. As Yoda said: “There is no try.”
2) Lessons Learned…
Recall all you’ve learned about narcissists & harmful narc entanglements (here)…and reflect how your own entanglement experiences have hurt you/cause you great anxiety & down feelings/emotional upheaval. Write these experiences down, with specifics — review often.
3) Goodness Factor…
Is this narc relationship/life experience good for you? What have you gained? What do you continually lose? Human nature can be quite self-destructive, in not choosing well – when we’re facing our own human weaknesses. Keep filling your life with so many good things for you that your self-development & life enthusiasm for the good crowds out the bad for you: the relationship with a married narc.
💛Caroline
Good advice, Caroline!
Thank you, SMH❣ I just saw your comment about your “limp” salad greens & laughed!😉
Teehee, Caroline. Dirty mind!
SMH,
I seriously didn’t even think of that (not that I’m total angel!)…but hmm, you just *did* think that way – so WHO has the dirty mind now woman, hmmm? 😂😉
I really did laugh about how you put together the healthy (though leafy limp) salad…then got hungry & broke down & nuked a cheesy roll-up thing. I just love life little funny moments like that…what can I say?🥰
CIND and SMH,
I really have no idea what you guys are referring to….limp something or other. But I have an overwhelming desire to go take a shower!!!!!
hahaha CIF and Kim-e, shall I tell you what I had for dinner tonight? It is interesting how food and sex kind of mirror each other, isn’t it? Every kind of food sounds funny when you think about it in sexual terms. Hot diggity dog! (Not what I had, however.) Tomato. Cherry. Eggplant!
Eggplant??? Seek help, SMH. 😂
SMH and CIF
Eggplant??? Seek help, SMH. 😂
OMG…LOL….Now I know SMH and I are twins……..
SMH and CIF
When ever I read a fortune from a fortune cookie, I add…”in bed….” at the end of it. Sometimes pretty hilarious.
Kim e, Yep, in bed, always. To be honest, I did not know about the eggplant thing until around the time that MRN started roping me into virtual sex. I really was a virtual virgin but I had fun with it. We preferred words rather than pictures and I wouldn’t seriously communicate like that with anyone else – haven’t before or since. We were in this little sex bubble all the time and could say and do whatever we wanted. It was very liberating but, like him, I don’t think I could combine that with a ‘real’ relationship.
SMH
You surprise me all the time. Virtual sex huh? Roped you in? Not sure I could do that….but never say never. And I thought the eggplant was joke…….I am taking it now that it was not. Care to share?
Kim e, eggplant emoji = penis.
During my first month with MRN, he emailed me constantly but also traveled a lot. I asked him at one point if he was more interested in virtual sex than in the real thing (takes all types). He denied it and I never mentioned it again. A few months later (I had already dumped and returned to him once), we were in separate cities. At one point, he was in mine for under 24 hours but did not give me advance warning and it was late when he contacted me. He tried to get me to come to his hotel but I refused. I was signing off when suddenly he sent a dick pic. I was a bit shocked and it felt coercive, but I played along (I did not send explicit pictures back, however – I would never do that). The dick pic is an example of evidence I could have sent to IPPS but did not. Part of his face is visible, as are his clothes and his wrist watch etc.
Normally it was just banter between us because when we were in the same place we would see each other. When we were not, we were usually NC.
Kim e, Your gravatar made me laugh.
SMH…I love this little guy.
Kim e, he’s got attitude.
SMH
I have been so tired this week. Not sure if it is mental from trying to keep myself NC or it is the fact that the sun goes down at 715 now.
I guess there is a thing called spoofing where you can download an app and make phone calls look like they are coming from different numbers even tho you are using your own phone.
It is very rare for me to get calls from 800, 888 numbers or numbers that I have nothing to do with. BUT….last time around and now this time around beside NO ID and Anonymous calls I am getting A LOT of those calls. When I google the calls, 9 times out of ten they have no info to give me. Maybe I am paranoid.
I find myself giving my energy to N but in a different way by way of me worrying abour hoovers. Which of course HG (HI HG) said would happen. SO TIRED>>>>>>
I did sign up for the 1/2 offer he had today. I almost unblocked today. . I didnt but….I told myself…all those other people involved and they will NEVER go away. Just keep coming. Hope I am on the shelf and the dust is getting thicker. I dont qualify for a Grand get your ass back here hoover but not sure I am in the clear yet either.
Have a nice weekend. I am going to a birthday party tomorrow from 1:30 on. Sunday I will be around. Catch up then.
Can I ask what some of the “symptoms” of ET withdrawal were for you?
Kim e,
Obsessive thoughts were the main ET symptom for me, which sounds like what you are having, including with the phone calls. Thankfully, I did not know about hoovers during my main six month period of NC. Though I suspected MRN was visiting my LI profile regularly, I did not know it was a ‘thing.’ I think I actually found it somewhat empowering. When we reconnected, I was able to use that power to escape. It might have been different had I known about hoovers or had he given me a direct one but I tend to think that anytime an ex reaches out, no matter how they are doing it, the other person has the power. Since I escaped and am not going to reach out to MRN (did that enough times!), I still have the power and always will. Maybe that’s my own twisted narc-ish thinking, but it helps. Buddy, you blew it and you cannot have me anymore (famous last words).
I am so glad you signed up for a consultation and did not unblock. You are doing really well. Everything you are going through is normal for this type of situation and it will get better. I promise. Just remind yourself that you have the power because he is the one hoovering you. Your fatigue is probably both the change of seasons and the mental energy you are expending on narc. Try to enjoy your party and we will check in on Sunday. I am having a break too tomorrow with some friends. I have to clear my head of work. I hit a wall today and still have to get through next week. I wonder what will happen when I finally have a break – will MRN creep back into my thoughts? Will oyster man resurface? Shall I go on more dates? Guess it will all depend on how bored I get!
Speaking of men, weird story but I met up with some local people around a neighborhood project. I Googled one guy today (he is married – I was curious about him professionally, not romantically) and I discovered that someone charged him with a serious sexual assault (someone he knew – not a stranger). It made the papers. He is still listed on his work website but he does not seem to be working and I think there is a lawsuit. I am not terribly worried. I just find the whole thing weird and hope he is not a narc and does not try to ensnare me. We are all having dinner at their place next week. Do I just act like I do not know anything? We happen to be in the same profession. Awkward!!
SMH,
HI. Birthday party was good. Was also a gender reveal party as the birthday boy is my nieces husband and she is PG. It’s a girl. Every one excited except me. I prefer little boys…not that way either……as I find little girls to be whiny. I definitely dont do whiny.
Sunday I kept pretty busy and the normal Sunday anxiety did not start as early or seem to be as intense. I even slept which is a rare occurrence for a Sunday….before, during or after the N.
One change in my NC….out of my control and only for 2 weeks part of which I will be gone for. The new train lot that I have moved to has construction in the place where I have to park. There is a daily lot or permit lots. The daily lot where I am is closed because they are tearing down a building next to it and for safety reasons, have the lot closed off with a fence. (another reason I hated having to move lots. This one is very inconvenient and caters to permit parking). SO as a result, I am in the old lot for this week and park of next. I did not park in my usual spot(s). I also will not be there on 10/10 or 10/11 as I am gone to Seattle for the wedding. Fingers crossed I stay out of the N’s thoughts and he doesnt decide to look for my car.
The tiredness seems to have subsided also.
WOW….that is really strange about the guy you googled. Just go with the flow. Do you think the others involved int his neighborhood project have any idea?
I am still in a mind set of wanting a hoover but I guess that will go away with time. To me it feels like I have been NC for months. Guess I will have to work thru this for months and hope I stay out of his hoover time……
Kim e, Another thing we have in common – I was hoping against hope that my baby would be a boy because I had such a rocky relationship with my (narc) mother and our birthdays are very close together (my son’s due date was also just few days before mine). We did not know the sex but I *knew* it anyway and our baby shower was boy-themed. Now I have a daughter too (my sister’s kid) but she is older and I did not have to raise her (my sister did a good job).
Tell me this: why is it that the last five men I have had a connection with have ONLY daughters? ExHL has two, MRN has three, guy I dated all last fall has one, dead narc has two, married work guy has two, Oyster Man has two. No sons among the lot of them!! Clearly there is something to it but I cannot figure it out. That I raised a boy must make me ‘exotic’ or male-oriented or something, and gives the married ones an out from feeling suffocated by all the girliness around them?? I dunno.
Anyhow, I am glad the party was fun even if the gender reveal part was for a girl :), also that you slept well. That is a good sign of getting past the anxiety and I hope it continues. For me it was not waking at 5:00 a.m. (when MRN would normally email).
How has your week gone? Has anything happened in the train lot? Any hoover signs? I realized today that it could have been Oyster Man looking at my LinkedIn. Do I have another stalker? Then of course I was wishing for an MRN hoover, but it passed…and I didn’t come close to breaking NC.
Tomorrow I will see the sexual harassment guy again but most people in the group already know him so I think the story is out there. I will also meet up with him probably alone next week as part of the activities we need to do (public place). I imagine it will come up at some point.
SMH,
No hoover stuff at all. I have to keep in my mind that the N knows instictivly when I am most likely to be vunerable to a hoover after a =certain amount of time. Cant let my guard down. His options for past behavior are,,,,,,
1. my car
2. work phone
3. cell phone ( I am surprised all the “no caller id” calls have been to my work number.)
4. work phone
5. my house I dont forsee this. Last time it happened was 2 days after we went to dinner and he was not worried about being wounded or told to go away.
6. in front of my office
Head is on a swivel.
How did it go with sexual harassment guy? Is he creepy?
HG…question please. Does the N hoover my work phone as opposed to my cell phone thingk that is he hoovers my cell phone I will change the number?
Kim e,
I think he must hoover your work phone because he knows you cannot change it. MRN would also let time pass between hoovers – shelving, my escaping, a blow up – whatever it was, he never tried to fix things except for one time, which was the beginning of the end because I was so angry. He kind of panicked and said ‘it’s not your fault’ (what had happened). Duh.
He only used a work number and did have to change it (mobile) because, he said, he had a stalker and eventually HR had to give him a new number. This was one of the red flags in the beginning that I ignored. He did not want my phone number because – I guessed and said to him – he did not want me to have his. He then told me the stalker story. It might have been true because after all, the way he behaved, someone could easily have blown up his phone. But I didn’t really care since email on your phone is almost the same as texting.
Before my final escape, he gave me his number because that was one of my conditions for even considering returning to him. He did not hesitate. Then I escaped and took screen shots of our texts, his name, number and picture, and sent our chat to my email in case he deleted me (which he eventually did – I almost deleted him but did not want him to think I cared, so I waited for him to delete me). So our relationship both began and ended with phone numbers! Oh also the last time we saw each other, after I made him delete all of the emails and told him he had a personality disorder, he said he would call me later on (in the fall – when I’d be in the US). I just stared at him. He has never called me in his life! It was like what he did the year before when we also ended it – he said ‘let’s have a drink when you are back.’ Ha. As if we ever went out for a drink other than the first time we met. Both times he hugged me too!!
Bizarre attempts to retain control. So he can think in his mind, ‘I said I would call her and I never did, so I win,’ when in reality I left him, not the other way around. See how that works? Your narc is looking for a way to retain control and will go to great and twisted lengths to do it.
I like sexual harassment guy – I like his wife too and they seem to have a good relationship (who knows, I have not been around them that much). But he does this weird thing – he emails me a lot because we are on this neighborhood thing together but he always cc’s his wife, no matter what the topic. The other day I decided to oops hit reply instead of reply all, just to see what would happen. He simply continued to cc his wife. We’ll see what happens next week! A bit of excitement! 🙂
SMH,
I forgot to tell you that yesterday I got another call at work I did not recognize. But I remembered the same number from the day before and it was a local area code. So I said WTH and answered it. Guess what???? NO BODY SAID ANYTHING ON THE OTHER END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was shocked. I picked up on the 2nd ring so not like it rang a long time and they gave up.
I truly believe he is spoofing numbers. None are the normal toll free 800 or 888 numbers. All have regular area codes and none leave messages.
Maybe I am paranoid?????
Read No Contact it tells you how to deal with this, instead of tolerating it and allowing yourself to be impaled on The Devil´s Pitchfork.
Kim e, Ha. I knew HG would weigh in on that one, and he did! It is not hard to spoof numbers, as I discovered with this guy I went on a date with before Oyster Man. You can get a Google Voice number, for instance, in a specific area code, or there are apps like TextMe that give you numbers – as many as you want. So I guess that is another leaf from the narc;s playbook. I didn’t even know those things existed. But actually they can be useful – I can give out a number that is not my real number, for instance. The thing is, it is so time consuming! That is what gets me about the narc hoovers like fake FB profiles. You have to spend some time setting up the fake stuff! Guess narcs have nothing better to do with their time?
SMH. I knew he would also. But us stubborn empaths sometimes take a long time to catch on and say…OK HG, I get it. As the song goes…”girls just wanna have fun….”.
The only reason I think it is N making these calls is because I very very very rarely ever got calls from numbers I did not know. The 800 and 888 numbers make sense but the others did not. Guess that is all he has in his barrel of hoover tricks….LOL. Pitiful. I would expect better of him.
SO one thing I dont get. Are these created numbers real numbers? If I decided not to answer but call it back, where does it ring to? The actual person that owns that number? (just a question HG…not going to call it back) Wonder if that is why sometimes , tho rarely, in the past I would get call from someone….usually a woman…that would say “Hi I just got a call from this number”. AH HA……light bulb moment!!!!!!!
I have googled my number, which I have had for 21 years, and other peoples names come up under it. I always thought that was odd.
Setting up fake shit doesnt take that long. I am beginning the think that the FB profile that I see for my N is just the shell….nothing inside it…LIKE HIM!!!!! It is completely locked down and the pictures have not changed at all since 2017. He posts stuff on it which of course is all posted to the public so it shows up, but I am betting the inside there is nothing. Just enough to keep looky lou’s happy and occupied. I have to admit I have looked for his fake stuff but could never find anything.
What it the point of giving out a number that is not yours? Guess this reverts back to my above question regarding calling it back
Kim e, It is ‘your’ number. For instance, with TextMe, they assign you an unused number and it rings or texts to you (you download the app). With Google Voice it forwards to your regular number but whoever is calling you uses the GV number. In both cases, you can give your TextMe number or GV number to someone you do not know, and they won’t have your real number, or you can use either number to make calls and that is the number that will show up. I’ll bet your N is using something like TextMe. I didn’t know about it until this fall and I only used it once. But obviously there are lots of people who use it a lot and rotate the numbers. I also do not attach my full name to my own number because I have a lot of WhatsApp contacts and sometimes give out my real number to people I do not know. If they are on on WA, they can only see my first name.
MRN has a fake FB profile. I know it is his because while there is no pic (he doesn’t want anyone he knows to recognize him) it’s the name he used for his email and there is no one with that name in the world. There is nothing on his page either, except a location, which is his. I am sure he uses it to creep people on FB. I discovered today that my LinkedIn is public so I had to change that too. It’s all a big pain in the ass.
SMH,
This shit makes my head hurt. So really any number that I am being called from that is not associated with one of my set up contacts could be BS?! Guess you ahve to be devious, N or not, to even think of doing this. I am really surprised the FCC doesnt crack down on this.
Back to the grind stone today thru Wednesday. then off until next Wednesday. I will be on and off line. As I cant answer from my phone,and I am not going to carry my computer on my travels, any replies needed will have to wait.
If you decide to run off and get married, have a “date” with O man OR break NC…….I will be sure to get to those first.
My ET is wacked from taking to that moronic N on Hangouts. Makes me wonder how people get ensnared over and over again. I felt my ET raise as I was talking to him but maybe that is becasue my ET is still high becasue of still dealing with NC with my N. Maybe I would not have noticed, if he had spoken like he had a brain, and my LT had won over my ET prevoisly.
Oh well…….ttyl.
Kim e, Yup. Could be anyone and it’s very easy to keep switching numbers. It is pretty warped but then I have learned about a lot of warped stuff the past few years. I’m amazed that I can still be surprised by anything.
I only use this site on my computer too, so I totally get it. I will contact OM because otherwise I will be looking over my shoulder all next week but I won’t break NC with MRN. Furthest thing from my conscious mind (hope I don’t do it in my sleep by mistake).
I haven’t read any new posts in ages because I can’t keep up with the ones I have commented on, so I’ll catch up while you are gone. More importantly, you should just forget about Ns for awhile and have fun! Go wild with those edibles! In fact, if staying on here is messing with your head, you should leave altogether. I will miss you but better that you recover than that we entertain each other with nuggets o’narc.
SMH…funny thing about it is I have not had a single call from an unknown number since I have ahd to park in the “old” lot. Coincident? I think not. From 4 a day to none….nope. Guess I will see if that theory holds out after I get back to parking in the new lot.
My phone will be off most of the time while I am away. The days I am at the wedding venue, it will be left in my room.
Nuggets O’ Narc…..they come with their own special type of sauce!!!!!
Talk to you later girl.
Kim e, Special sauce indeed. Do not be distracted by your phone. Maybe you can set it to accept calls from contacts only? I think they’re going to have to make that possible soon if the spam calls from wayward narcs and Chinese-speaking insurance brokers doesn’t stop.
I had never had a ‘private’ LinkedIn visit either until I went NC. As soon as we were back in contact, it stopped except during periods of silence when he wanted to send a ‘message’ without being the one to reach out because you know they are incapable of doing that directly. They expect us to go to them and when we don’t, well, fuel shortages ensue but their narcissism gets in the way of acting like an adult. It would mean we ‘won.’
SMH,
I once asked HG if N’s send texts to see if they have been unblocked. He told me know. But I am not 100% onboard with that theory. How else does the N know of they ahve been unblocked? It seems like, in the way past, when I would unblock, I would get a text within a couple hours. Even the last time a couple months ago, why did I get a text then even tho he had been blocked. Coincident? In my way of thinking, how else would the N know they are unblocked?
And yes I agree 100%, they want you to make the move after they throw down the subtle hints.
Kim e, Maybe they just routinely send texts whether they are blocked or not? I know that MRN used to hoover me like clockwork – he was very routinized. He also had a very set pattern and timeline for seeing me. There seemed to be something comforting about routine to him, though he once accused me of lacking spontaneity. That was laughable to me as well as being a double standard, since I had to conform to his needs and availability. Now I know he was projecting his issues onto me.
SMH,
I know I replied to this already but I had to fill you in on my day. You and I had talked about finding a distraction for me to get over my narc. Well 2 of them fell in my lap today. And I think they fit the bill.
1. A doctor serving the poor refugees in Syria. An orthopedic doctor from Austin Texas. I googled him…no such ortho guy in Austin. A widower (?) got to be a narc just by the conversation. So he is 8 hours time ahead of me. He wanted to get off of Instagram while chatting and switch up to hangouts thru google. I talked another N on instagram before and he wanted the same thing. Not sure why. Ideas?
2. a cute army guy. not real flirty. Just a comfortable get to know you conversation thru out the day. Did not play off any of my stuff. My only clue to him being a narc is all the people he follows are women….lol. And he keeps calling me ‘my lady”. AND guess what….he is a widower!!!! (?) I enjoy talking to him. He is 9.5 hours ahead of me.
I called them both out on any BS I felt coming my way. #1 was taken aback and tongue tied. #2 asked what he had said wrong and explained why he had said it. He baffles me. He is probably the one I need to look out for. Too easy to talk to just like our MRN’s.
All I know for sure right now is I am relaxed and had a nice peaceful day that was not consumed with thoughts of my N. As a matter of fact when I would think of him it was kinda like….NANANANA……go away…I am done with you.
Stop rolling your eyes HG.
Kim e,
So glad you had a nice relaxing day! It does help to chat with other men, even if they are assholes. I only had one ever ask to switch to Google Hangouts, which I refused to do. He was a real weirdo but he kept me entertained for a few days with a fake picture and a long fake life story and intense love bombing. It was so stupid as to be entertaining. Usually I move anyone I am even just a bit interested in to my fake email, where we can chat more easily, but I would never video chat with anyone I had not met.
I do not meet up with every guy I move to email, but I usually either meet up quickly or end the conversation. I think last year I had about six dates apart from Irishman (someone I was involved with all fall but finally dumped) but it gets tiresome. So if I am in the mood I will chat away with men I never plan to meet. It’s entertaining!
Oyster man is a widower too but he really is one. He’s actually the only widower I have ever been out with because to me it is a red flag – not that they are necessarily narcs but even if they are real widowers they are always looking to replicate what they had.
I wouldn’t know how to meet anyone via IG (I don’t use it). I always put geographical parameters on dating sites because of the meet up in real life thing. I’ve met some interesting and nice people and I don’t get sucked in by narcs very often (I don’t think I do, anyway), though a lot of people are narcissistic (including me, I guess!)
Anyway, glad you are having some fun!
SMH I have never done dating sites. Always afraid of murderers or rapists. And always figures, even before I knew about N’s, that the profiles were BS.
The one that I have been talking to on Hangouts is getting clingy. I tell him I wont be around all day and I get 6 messages. I will cut him lose today. I will give him some BS reason since as we know I have guilt issues about just blocking people.
Have not heard back from the army guy on IG that I talked to all day Friday. He has not been active since we said good night. If he is where he says he is and is doing what he says he is actually doing, I get the not on line thing for days at a time. Then again…oh well. Back to my NC with N and getting my life together.
The widower thing was new for me. Never heard that one. But I guess depending on their age that is good hook. Saying I am divorced can be followed up by too many questions.
Kim e, I don’t say anything about past relationships on dating sites but lots of people do – well, I don’t know about hetero women because I cannot see them unless I pretend to be a man. But married men often say they are married – they just cut off their heads in profile pics :). Oyster Man said he was widowed. Most of the guys on dating sites are genuine, at least on the site I (sometimes) use. Cut Hangouts loose. He sounds whiny. Plus you are traveling this week – good time to hang up on both of them.
CIF,
Love ya lady. This time I gotta admit I just said F it and text him.
What I need to get over is my feeling like I hurt him when I go NC. That damn word wound just really got to me.
2 steps forward….I am better than I was.
Like Mae West used to say…”When Im good I’m good BUT when I’m bad I’m better”. I never really followed the norm. When I was in highschool….maybe 15 years old….I was dating a 22 year old guy. All my friends were just discovering make up and birth control. So by the time I was 22, I was done drinking and drugging as I had done it all. When all my friends had boyfriends, I didnt. When I did, they didnt. Never the norm. Not planned ….just how it worked.
I am going to get there…no doubt……I just need to dig deep and find the inner bitch in me that with any one else in the world except the narc, I have no problem showing!!!!
Why is that????????????????????
Kim,
If you HAVE an Inner Bitch, USE it!! Bitch-slap this useless, worthless, angst-ridden, ridiculous, time-wasting, mind-numbing, emotion-robbing, pain-sucking narcissistic entanglement out into the galaxy and go NC!
P.S. Hope that wasn’t too harsh🥰… I can’t actually claim to have an Inner Bitch — but I DO have an Inner Viking, so I occasionally get all “up in axes” & way stubborn/intense. But that aspect *did* help me resist/escape the narc – so your “IB” can too!
CIF,
I wnt to bed at 730 last night…mentally exhausted. I was up at 1130 and at 12 went back to bed. My brain would not shut off thinking of N. And then I thought “Why worry about who he is with. It isn’t you so leave it alone. Get off the merry go round”.
This morning he was blocked again. I have to admit if he would have kept up the banter after I texted him last week, I would have not done it…but Shit! I want someone that wants me and only me. That when I get a Good Morning text they mean it and cant wait to see me and hold my hand and soak up my tears……..crying now….great……good thing no one else at work yet! 🙁
I will think of your inner viking when I am feeling weak. I will summon my inner bitch when needed. Thanks for standing by me,,,,it means a lot to this heart broken empath.
Hi HG,
Question for you please……..I believe I know the answer but need to ask anyway.
If the N keeps getting blocked, he hoovers and is unblocked and this cycle repeats, does the N:
1. get wounded less because he thinks “no problem I got her back before”
2. Ever think “this bitch is crazy. I am just gonna forget about her!”
With regard to your questions Kim E, the response is governed by when there is a Hoover Trigger and whether the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
If you keep unblocking a narcissist, you are increasing the risk of being hoovered. If you want to understand this in its fullest context with regard to your own circumstances, the appropriate forum is through a consultation.
HG
I dont suppose there is a chance in hell he will just go away?
Not if you keep unblocking him.
HG,
He is blocked now and I really am done.
What will it take for him to just go away?
Total no contact.
HG. thank you. Might need you later to consult with. Please dont you go away!
I agree and recommend you do so sooner rather than later.
Awww, Kim~dry those tears, hon💕 Look what you just declared…that you want someone who “only wants you.” 💫A BEAUTIFUL TRUTH.💫Yes, that is what you want, Kim…and that is good – don’t you settle for less❣ Being involved in these “side benefit” relationships, with a narc no less, is just no good. It never will be. It’s not good for your mind, nor heart, nor spirit…no to that miserable arrangement.💔
I’m so glad you’re back to blocking💢…I see HG replied back to you, and consulting with him really does seem like it’d be of great benefit to you, doll…get your questions answered – clarity does wonders – and empower yourself to NC. I think you do see (more & more) that the “high” feeling of narc contact does not last…and the letdown pain is not worth it.
Really, NC is about self-protection & self-love & self-esteem. I hope you can talk to HG soon…and of course I’m here for you! Better days are coming/do not despair…but first, you have to be on the right track to get to those – and this is a great step back. 🙌
XOXO,
Caroline💖
Kim,
I saw your wedding update on the other thread…you sound down. I’m sorry, hon. I get where you’re at, and my prescription is either surround yourself with more laughter right now ~ or more relaxation ~ things that really soothe & calm you. For starters, put your fav music on/take a bubblebath. It will get better.🧡
No need to post back to me, but I leave you with this, to reinforce how bizarre narcs are…they just can’t *be* normal, doll. It’s not you – they eventually either make people feel jumpy, irritated, confused, pissed, or down. Or they make you laugh (like happens with me), cause it’s all so ridiculous, like what my narc did yesterday…
I got an anonymous email from him (had no idea there was such a thing — I’m now well-versed). No question in my mind it was him, although it still stuns me he would do something so juvenile.
How do I know it was the narc, you ask? It went to an old email address of mine that he alone has (besides a work-related facet), and I also knew because of the day (a significant one, from our formal relationship) & the time he sent it (same time he used to send me emails in the a.m.) & just *one* word in the header, which would definitely make me think of him.
What is the point of that? It’s positively nutty. 🤭 A grown man (15 years older, no less), who has NO problem brazenly showing up at my work places — yet sends me an anonymous email? For what, pray tell?
See, they’re goofy…it’s just how their minds are wired. As for you…
Keep it simple right now, as you’re worn out emotionally. Do something nice for yourself, if you can.🧡 Thinking of you.
CIF, oh lord. Now I am going to have to study each spam email closely…
SMH,
I’d not do that, sweetie–Resist the impulse. Delete your spam~it’s better not to know. NOT knowing is empowering~a big blessing.💫
CIF, Jk! I do scan my spam because I sometimes find things that shouldn’t be in there but I don’t look at it too closely.
SMH~
Good deal!🤸♀️
Caroline-is-fine
You are looking at it from your POV. From his POV, it isn’t juvenile; it makes perfect sense. He sent you an anonymous email to provoke you, gain thought fuel and exert control.
Goofy from your POV, efficient from his POV.
Correct.
HG
It makes perfect sense to me; It’s brilliant when you think about it.
Indeed I am.
HG
Ha ha ha…you are indeed brilliant.
HG,
Oh brother!🤪 You don’t even NEED to see the other comment pane, for a reference point.
#WhenANarcMakesYaGo🤪
I do when I deal with hundreds of comments and observations each day and people want an answer. Of course, I could just ignore the question for its lack of specificity.
HG~ok~ fair enough…it was just regarding you trumpeting your own brilliance. To which I said: OH BROTHER. Happy now?
I’m feverish. Super feverish! Nothing I say today should be held against me.
#NoNeedToBanMeIfI’mAlreadyDying
HG,
I do realize that’s the narc’s reasons/motivation for it, but it’s still nonsense to me, so it works against him all the time, on both fronts (reminding me he’s a narc + annoying me, with my own sense of how men should conduct themselves )…when in the FR, I didn’t get some of this stuff, because he *had* me. So…
#It’sNewToMe
Caroline-is-fine
Don’t mind me, I am using your comment to practice.
Annoyance is fuel and indicates that you are still under his control. Nonsense to you but it works for him because he knows you, how you think and feel and how you will react (fuel).
with my own sense of how men should conduct themselves) …(you are projecting your world view; that’s your trait of decency and he will manipulate that). When you were in the FR, he ‘had’ you under his control and providing fuel and, if you were painted white, he used benign control to achieve this.
Thanks CIF!
K,
I know, but it’s annoyance that passes fairly quickly, and it serves to remind me why I don’t want him in my life…so it works for me!🤸♀️
Caroline-is-fine
You are absolutely right. The annoyance is part of the process and will eventually fade into indifference and you will work through it at your own pace and those feeling do remind us of why we don’t want them back in our lives.
Last night I was thinking about ET and it really is the enemy within.
K,
It sure is (ET/the enemy within). For me, discipline & self-esteem/self-control — combined with a love of freedom — is what got me out of the FR for good (never went back, after 3 years). Now I need to work more on guilt…the false kind. I need to let myself off the hook more than I do…
I’m working it!🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️
Caroline-is-fine
You will get there; it’s a work in progress.
K, Good points. MRN knows that I know he stalks me on LinkedIn. He also knows that I know that he stalks me on FB. How much of a coincidence could it be that I am being stalked on both LinkedIn and FB these days? MRN is getting fuel from knowing that I know that he knows that I know. In a way, it is just like our relationship – I would know that he would know something that he would pretend not to know even though he would know that I knew that he knew. But it’s still juvenile! Haha.
SMH
Exactly! In this dynamic there are no coinkydinks and he knows that you know that he knows (thought fuel).
These are passive, low maintenance hoovers which are designed to provoke a response from you and your MRN knows how you will react (fuel) based on the way you behaved in your relationship with him.
Although it may seem juvenile from our POV, it’s effective and efficient; it works from his POV. They have us under their control and providing fuel, whether we are aware of it is irrelevant, because our POV is negated.
The only one that matters is the narcissist and the only thing that matters is The Prime Aims. All is well in NarcLand.
Coinkydinks, K. Good one. Yes, I get it now. I can see how it would work. I guess there is nothing to be done. Just let him play his juvenile games and get his dollops of thought fuel. There was a time not too long ago when I would have wanted to reach out and tell him he could be in touch directly if he wanted to, but that time is long gone…
SMH
That is a nice word. You are right; there’s nothing that can be done. Just think: The Games Are Always Being Played. Sadly, there is no reaching out or being in touch, now that we know what they are, those days never really existed when you think about it.
K, When I think back on how caught up I was in that dynamic – my oh my. I was like a different person. Everpresence is gone. The ties that bind are gone. NC really does work! It was hard but I am thankful he was not a Greater. He could have ruined my whole life. As a Midranger, he is more like a fly that I have to occasionally swat away.
SMH
You and me both. NC is the only answer. It takes time but it works like magic and, thankfully, the Midranger doesn’t have the energy levels of the Greater. They are easier to swat away.
K, Indeed. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do but SO worth it!
K,
You are looking at it from your POV. From his POV, it isn’t juvenile; it makes perfect sense. He sent you an anonymous email to provoke you, gain thought fuel and exert control.
Goofy from your POV, efficient from his POV.
Please store the above that you just told CIF for when I need you to remind me of the same thing. It is much appreciated.
Kim,💜
For what it’s worth, to help you think about what makes *you* tick…
I think the reason provocation doesn’t work well for my narc (on me) is because it either makes me: 1) Laugh, because it seems silly/plus I know what he’s doing, like with the transparent anonymous email attempt (I knew he wanted me to email him back: “Did you email me??”, so I found that ridiculous; and, in a way, it actually insulted me that he’d think I couldn’t figure that out — which eventually also made me laugh!) OR
2) With more serious stuff he has done to provoke me (like involve and/or hurt other people I care about) — it made me ENRAGED, but I dealt with it alone, and I didn’t let him know he’d enraged me).
Either way, the “silly” or the “serious” provocations are turn-offs for me, and they repel me away. For you, it sounds like you take his shenanigans/provocations in neither a “very light” (funny) way (maybe because of your current ET level)…nor in a seriously offensive way (maybe because he hasn’t hit you too hard where it really hurts yet).
I get annoyed by a lot of narc behavior, so I guess that helps. I always have — I just didn’t know it was narc/narcissistic behavior! Can you get/stay annoyed for a very long time with him?😁Or maybe you need to get really mad — to finally have had enough to want totally out of the whole darn mess.
Anyway, I think it helps to know what makes you plant your “NO MORE” flag.🏴
CIF,
Did I miss something? I have stated numerous times that I wish he would be an ass towards me so that I could get mad at him and tell him to F off. I am sure I could get him to be an ass towards me (remember the inner bitch) but as I am still in the high ET stage of wanting him back no matter how he would contact me, that will not work.
I really at this point in time do not think I am on his radar and that is fine with me. I am still parking at the new train lot (which I still hate with a passion and consider it unfair that I have to do it) and avoid the trains he is on. I am neither here nor there with any emotions. I am kinda dead inside (fake it good on the outside tho) but today the tears are not there as they were yesterday. I am sleeping at night.
I guess that is all at this point in time that I can do.
Could you explain for me what you mean by “For you, it sounds like you take his shenanigans/provocations in neither a “very light” (funny) way (maybe because of your current ET level)…nor in a seriously offensive way (maybe because he hasn’t hit you too hard where it really hurts yet).”?
This has me puzzled especially the “where it really hurts yet” part.
Hope you are feeling better today. Great that the fever broke. Tak it easy the next couple days and let your body heal.
Kim,
Thanks😊~I feel much better (my fever broke), so I’m even heading into work this afternoon. Who knows *what* all I said yesterday, with my fever😉, so I’m sorry it was unclear…I’ll try again.
All I meant was that you’re not yet feeling like the narc dynamic is totally laughable (because of ET being too high still, as you realize) — and you’re also not fired up at some huge offense he’s done toward you (he hasn’t), so it makes sense to me that you feel “blah” — you’re keeping your NC, but you’re feeling a little down, because you’re in maintenance mode with NC…and I think that makes us feel a bit weepy (it did with me). This in-between stage is necessary, but it’s not exactly a warm, fuzzy feeling. However, it’s just not possible to totally break free without going *through* all the emotions, even this icky “blah” one. But it is a *temporary* feeling – so do not lose heart. It will get better – you just feel the slump right now.❤
I do remember you saying you wish he’d just really tick you off (but he’s a Mid-Ranger, so it’s pretty unlikely; and your dynamic with him doesn’t make sense he’d go way aggressive or nasty either) …anyway, getting your dander up with narcs can help in ways (it’s helped me, but I’m a former IPPS, so it’s a rather different scenario); but really, even getting fired up is temporary, as all feelings are. (Try to keep in mind I’m a Viking girl, so we are predisposed to wanting to get fired up to fight things sometimes.🤸♀️ Ignore my Vikingness – it matters not!).
But the heart of the matter is this: It always does come down to the disciplined NC…which is not fun, at all, when ET is up. HOWEVER, you should be really proud of yourself on hanging tough. You’re maintaining as you need to, but until you get over the “ET hump,” it’s going to not feel great. You’ll be up-and-down. That would be normal for the situation. Everyone is different on the timing of lowered ET, but just know you are doing the right thing. You are! It will pay off, if you hold firm.
I’m very proud of you❣
CIF.
Maintenance mode???!!! That is a weird way to describe it. But I will go with it.
Thanks for the clarification of things. Now I get it. Betweenyour fever and my mind set I am surprised anything was understood.
Have a good weekend. I am going to text N now and check in on him…….JK!!!!!
Kim,
I know you’re kidding.😉 Stay NC strong!💙 You’ve come so far. I promise you, it gets so much better. 🤸♀️ Have a relaxing weekend.💙
Kim e
Ha ha ha…consider it done.
Yep, K…which is why I have no patience for that type of stuff.
Caroline-is-fine
Ha ha ha…which is exactly why we must go NC. Understanding their POV helps with Zero Impact, as well.
K,
For sure, sister! It’s actually great that mine doesn’t seem to know what *would* make it a little tough to resist…which is just being my “friend.” THEN I would feel some guilt, at refusing. However, I do believe my logic is strong enough to resist even that ill-conceived notion, because I already know it wouldn’t be a real offering. Still, he’d at least have a shot, at guilting me.
But no…instead, I get “entitlement spot visits” & a goofy-berry anonymous email.🥴 Ok, buddy…but you’re making it way too easy.
#SayNoToFrightfulFriendships😱
Caroline-is-fine
Ha ha ha…well, he definitely isn’t a Greater. They are the masters of seduction and would draw you back in so fast that it would make your head spin.
Perhaps his goal is to just annoy you with “entitlement spot visits” & a goofy-berry anonymous emails for a little thought fuel and I think he wants you to know that he knows that you know. That reads like a Bushism.
SMH. Update. My carpets got cleaned this afternoon 😂😂😂
Is this code for something?
HG. I should have said vacuumed not cleaned. Meaning I got hoovered. I am still NC. Nothing I could have done to stop it as it was in front of my office building. I saw out of the corner of my eye and just kept walking
I understood , I was teasing you.
HG…I was seriously afraid that I had said something wrong and you were going to reprimand me. Are you in my brain??? Controlling me?
SMH
I’m going through a similar process. sometimes i think he does that because he knows i’m looking. i’m pretty sure that they are together but also he’s manipulating her for share or not. he doesn’t have an account. he uses her like a billboard.
i am not a DLS in officially – couldn’t consult with HG- he has an IPPS,(i can be a candidate at first but more like a DLS at last) i don’t know what i am but we have always been outside for 2 years. people are intolerant about it in the country where I live. they have too much relatives and friends with his wife. i don’t know where he finds the courage.
i think sometimes they think us as a DLS but they act us little bit different if they know that we can’t accept this.
Hi ceyceyc, Are you still with yours? Funny you should say people are intolerant in your country because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.
The DLS/IPSS thing can be very confusing. I told MRN that I did not want to be IPPS – I thought he would be happy. But instead, his tone changed, of course because I was making the decision rather than him. I even said ‘oops, I shouldn’t have said that.’ He often treated me as if I was CIPSS anyway (i.e. in competition with IPPS, which I was not so he could not triangulate me with her) and he did most of the classic IPSS moves such as shelving. From my perspective, I was a SIPSS. I dare say HG would agree, but it is my own interpretation.
As for IG, MRN did not know I was looking until I told him, and I only told him when I was escaping for the last time. I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts. It was brilliant! It could be that he no longer has an account but I cannot be bothered to find out. I like my interpretation anyway! Ha. You know how we make up narratives in our heads to explain things? Well my feeling is that if your narrative works, it works!
I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.
SMH
i like to read your conversations with Kim. i wanted to say something too. thank you for your reply.
when i said “intolerance” i mean all kind of woman/man relationship. for example ; I haven’t seen my old friends (male ones) since they got married. i met their wifes but it would be a problem if I wanted to drink a coffee alone with my friends. I have many examples that I have had to explain that the person next to me is “my cousin/uncle/just a friend”. “meeting outside with me ” is unsafe in such an oppressive environment. my MRN took this risk for just a DLS.That’s what surprised me. polygamy is not something that I advocate. in 36 years, I’ve been in something like this for the first time. i can’t judge anyone, we are all free but I don’t want to experience this again – especially with a narc-
“….because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.”
they don’t care anything. no matter what we say. i am sure i did same conversations with him, as you
we were together for 2 years. he went NC in this April. – just kidding. i say NC because he knows the rules better than i do 🙂 – i tried to escape many times but of course he should have said the last word, he said, in this April. HG once told me he suspected that i am shelf but no communication channels are open now. i blocked him everywhere. I still can’t stop stalking his IPPS in Instagram.
“…I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts.” this is exactly what i do. I found the IPPS’s account when I realized he was lying to me. unfortunately ,unlike you, i told him. after that day we had a lot of fight about her posts. he always denied,he said that he didn’t know about what she posted but now i realize that he uses her for “happy family portrait” .after our break up she hasn’t share anything about him for 4 months. i saw his unhappy face in his some friends’ account. he seemed uncomfortable, he seemed to be hiding from the camera. last month suddenly she shared two photos of him, one of them was on his birthday, with a big smile. i didn’t send anything for his birthday. he definitely knows what he’s doing but i am not sure if it’s about me.
“I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.”
i am really happy for you. i’m sure it was hard but you’ve done. i wish the same for myself.
ps: sorry for my English. i am trying to write correctly but there may be mistakes.
SMH
i like to read your conversations with Kim. i wanted to say something too. thank you for your reply.
when i said “intolerance” i mean all kind of woman/man relationship. for example ; I haven’t seen my old friends (male ones) since they got married. i met their wifes but it would be a problem if I wanted to drink a coffee alone with my friends. I have many examples that I have had to explain that the person next to me is “my cousin/uncle/just a friend”. “meeting outside with me ” is unsafe in such an oppressive environment. my MRN took this risk for just a DLS.That’s what surprised me. polygamy is not something that I advocate. in 36 years, I’ve been in something like this for the first time. i can’t judge anyone, we are all free but I don’t want to experience this again – especially with a narc-
“….because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.”
they don’t care anything. no matter what we say. i am sure i did same conversations with him, as you
we were together for 2 years. he went NC in this April. – just kidding. i say NC because he knows the rules better than i do 🙂 – i tried to escape many times but of course he should have said the last word, he said, in this April. HG once told me he suspected that i am shelf but no communication channels are open now. i blocked him everywhere. I still can’t stop stalking his IPPS in Instagram.
“…I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts.” this is exactly what i do. I found the IPPS’s account when I realized he was lying to me. unfortunately ,unlike you, i told him. after that day we had a lot of fight about her posts. he always denied,he said that he didn’t know about what she posted but now i realize that he uses her for “happy family portrait” .after our break up she hasn’t share anything about him for 4 months. i saw his unhappy face in his some friends’ account. he seemed uncomfortable, he seemed to be hiding from the camera. last month suddenly she shared two photos of him, one of them was on his birthday, with a big smile. i didn’t send anything for his birthday. he definitely knows what he’s doing but i am not sure if it’s about me.
“I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.”
i am really happy for you. i’m sure it was hard but you’ve done. i wish the same for myself.
ps: sorry for my English. i am trying to write correctly but there may be mistakes.
Hi ceyceyc, Your English is fine – I can understand it! It seems like we had similar experiences. I once asked MRN what IPPS did all day since she did not work and their children were not young anymore. He said he did not know! Of course I knew what she did because I looked at her IG. When I left him for the last time (or rather did not go back), I told him that his marriage was sad – that he always looked bored (he did) or like he wanted to escape his life, and that IPPS had no interests or direction. I also said that if he wanted to find another IPSS I was sure he would but that I would not respect it. It’s not my life anyway, I said. I was pretty brutal, but in a nice way :).
We were also ‘together’ for two years and I also escaped many times. I also did not know what a hoover was. I found HG post-escape when I was trying to be ‘friends’ with MRN, who gave me an IGH and then kept contacting me.
Five months is very good, by the way. I think at five months NC I was probably still checking the IG accounts. They didn’t much trigger me or make me break NC. I also read over all of our old correspondence (3000 emails!) and realized that I had not been half the bitch I thought I had been at the end, so that was good!
I did tell IPPS, by the way. I did it anonymously. I do not think she believed me at the time (almost 18 months ago now) but it could be that she has found her footing back in her home country (we were all expats) or he did it again with someone else and she caught him red handed this time. I don’t know. But for the few months after I told her, there were pictures – graduations, moves, etc, with everyone looking happy family smiley. Now those sorts of pictures are no more and, as I said, she never mentions him and he never even ‘likes’ her posts anymore. Hard to tell because they always seemed estranged on IG – not like a couple at all.
I get what you mean by intolerant now. In general, couples are intolerant of single women because the woman in the couple feels threatened. I am lucky in that most of my friends live unconventional lives. I barely even know anyone who is married! It is strange that your MRN would take such risks with you but maybe he was challenged by the situation and was proving something to the world – that he could get away with it.
You will get there, ceyceyc, in fact it seems that you are well on your way.
Funny that both you and Kim are struggling with NC but I guess I am a good person to talk to about it because I have been through it all and come out the other side. That’s why my profile pic is a light at the end of a tunnel. I should throw in a caveat, however – I have not really been tested because MRN does not live near me and there is no chance that I would see him in real life. But the communication channels are open – I have not blocked him anywhere and I have not heard a thing. It could be that he looks at my FB but I have no way of knowing and it is private anyway, so there is not much that he could see.
Caroline & SMH:
Thing is, HG is blunt only when he wants to be. The twisted poetry in some of his posts was what allowed me to connect with them in a way I never could with all the clinical sites on narcissism I had been visiting once I began to suspect that was the issue with Wanna-Be Playuh Narc. I recognized those narrative voices from 1st-person Poe stories, songs like Big Data’s “Dangerous” or Death Cab’s “I Will Possess Your Heart.” They didn’t stay impenetrable abstractions that I couldn’t connect with anyone I knew.
It’s just ironic that my tendency to grasp things through an expressive art form like music or literature is what has allowed this site to teach me the necessity of NOT letting my emotional thinking determine my actions. I don’t believe HG has told anyone, “You shouldn’t feel that way.” Empaths gonna empath just like narcs gonna narc, but I’m learning what to DO (or not do) when the latest sporadically employed musician or struggling filmmaker tries to use my own nature to manipulate me. Could the thing that has so often tripped me up finally be my salvation?
The stone that the builders rejected….
Violetta,
No, HG hasn’t said that, from anything I’ve read…it doesn’t seem like HG would ever approach it from how an Empath “should feel” because he’s all about the cold, hard facts & helping us build our logic. He understands already that we think emotionally & what makes us tick, so I feel like it’s about him building our understanding of the narc’s viewpoint, so we can logic it out. He’s not going to tell a gazelle not to be a gazelle…but he’ll explain about lions (narcs), so that we gazelles can avoid getting ensnared!
I’m glad you’ve found a safe harbor here, to be enlightened…and I would think your love of music & literature actually makes you able to perceive things on a different plane sometimes, almost like a bird’s eye view, which can bring (ironically) more logic/objectivity about narcs.
Violetta,
That is very interesting. I am sure a lot of great artists (as well as not so great ones) are narcs. But notice that HG’s enormous creativity comes out when he is writing something for our consumption. It doesn’t when he is answering our questions. I get that he answers the same questions over and over but I also think he gets in the zone when he is writing, just as many great artists do, and the audience is abstract. It is more like he is writing for himself because he gets enjoyment out of it. When the audience is real – that is, when he is answering us directly – his cadence is much different. That is not to say that he doesn’t enjoy it. It is just to say that there are different contexts for his writing.
And yes to learning about reading the deep subtext of artistic expression. Before HG, all we had was ‘Every Breath You Take,’ right? Hard to listen or to read with the same naivete now.
I like the name WBPN!
hi SMH
“..Also, I once asked you what married man would take his mistress out and parade her to his friends and family? They all compartmentalize in that situation.”
i tried to ask same question before. this IPSS-DLS things like stock market fluctuate. everything is about law of supply and demand . like you can have a new title every month. but eventually all departures to shelf.
i think we should forget the general definition of mistress. the presence of an IPPS makes us “the other woman” but i guess i saw his variable perspective . “It may well have been part of the unconscious assessment of your suitability for candidate status” HG’s answer is so right for me – for the first 4 months- .we met him outside most of time. i asked if he was afraid to be seen with me. he never hesitated, no sign of wince. he was testing me as an CIPSS… i was more likely DLS last 7 months.
” I told him that his marriage was sad – that he always looked bored (he did) or like he wanted to escape his life, and that IPPS had no interests or direction also said that if he wanted to find another IPSS I was sure he would but that I would not respect it. It’s not my life anyway,” yesss ! this is very familiar too. i thought that IPPS was forcing him, at first. now i think that she wants to divorce but she can’t. i also did same conversations.
“They didn’t much trigger me or make me break NC” i don’t want to break my half NC but i can’t say same thing about trigger. how did you manage? I definitely think that every move in their instagram has a meaning. if you saw some changes there is something behind
it was very difficult to move from “having a baby together” idea to being completely erased. he took revenge for escapes. the first 2 months were the hardest .
your profile picture is so nice. very meaningful. I hope all the paths will light for you all the time
huh. I wish we’d met on a fashion blog, all of us. I’m sorry that so many people have gone through similar things
Ceyceyc, I like your profile pic too! It’s very apt! Blue skies and one character on her way to escape! I am sorry about the having a baby together thing but thank goodness you did not. It’s a blessing in disguise. The right person will come along for you. I already have my kids, so that was never an issue for me.
Not only have we all gone through similar things. It often seems like some of us were with the same person! Always possible.
In my case, and if MRN was to be believed, when we met, he and IPPS were separated (he told me they were divorced – he also lied about his name). About eight months later (I was away most of that time), he suddenly told me not only that there was an IPPS, but that she wanted to ‘reconcile’ (thus forcing him, as you say, but I thought that’s what he wanted too). By then, I knew who IPPS was but I did not know that they were still married. I wasn’t exactly shocked. More pissed off, so I left. The ‘mistress’ part did not happen until several months after that. It took about a year and a half for him to then get IPPS to where he wanted her – believing that he had ‘changed’ (complete with marital counseling).
He once described his family life to me as being like a snow globe – all happy and warm inside but he would find it suffocating and boring, and so he would bust out. I think the image is very interesting in part because a snow globe is covered with glass. Post escape, I told him that he was like glass – nothing to grab onto but I could throw a pebble and crack him to bits (wounding). In contrast, I was like rubber. He could bend me but he would never ever break me.
With regards to the IPSS, CIPSS, DLS cycle, whatever is happening with us is a response to what the narc is doing to someone else. I could tell when MRN felt ‘close’ to IPPS because he would push me away, and then he would be very present when IPPS was away or in devaluation. It’s always a very dynamic situation because there are always other people and things involved (triangulation, even if it is not obvious; punishment as you say for escapes, etc).
The IG probably didn’t trigger me because I had seen most of the pictures before (MRN rarely posted anything and IPPS rarely posts personal snaps – she doesn’t even have a picture of herself on her IG profile).
Another interesting image in IPPS’s IG: there is a picture of a Christmas collage from last year. I hadn’t seen it before. There are photographs of the kids and other family members (her mother, for instance) but MRN is a drawing – a sketch. It isn’t a photograph. Interesting! But as I said, their interaction was always in the ‘likes’ of pictures, and he would always be among the first to ‘like’ hers, all of them.
Speaking of social media – (and Kim e, in case you notice this): I just got a notification from LinkedIn and so I looked at who is viewing my profile. A few weeks ago I had one ‘private’ view (where you cannot tell who it is). Today I had four ‘private’ views. Maybe I am right about MRN and IPPS, and so the hoovers are increasing? Maybe he has no other fuel source? Maybe he has shattered? Maybe he truly loves me? (Just kidding about that last one!!!)
SMH
i haven’t heard from him since he sent me his last word with a text. no unknown calls, no block/unblock games, no nothing. since 5 months .and this “nothing” makes me feel worthless sometimes. i really don’t want to come back to his hell, i don’t want a hoover – my heart says “please write to me” sometimes- . but it also affects my interpretation about hoovers. a part of me says ; everything is possible, everything has a meaning. the other part says to me; you never exist and nothing is about you .
now i can’t tell if something is a hoover or not. because i believe that he has a new shiny toy, he doesn’t remember anything about me, and new toy affect the IPPS’s social media
i just know that whatever they do has a meaning. so, maybe your all thoughts are true. or maybe this is the part of his games.
i knew that he’s married. but of course it was “just a piece of paper” for him . when the time came he would divorce. hah. i can’t believe myself now. our MRNs may not be the same person but obviously they live in same snow globe. your words remind me of my anger .
arggh ! i want to shake their globes forever. hahah
what do you know about his IPPS? can she also -unfortunately- be a part of his social media games ?
ceyceyc, MRN and I once went 8 months without seeing each other – NC for several of those, and another time NC for six months. I don’t want you to see your MRN. It will just be more of the same. So do not hope for it, please! However, I certainly know what you mean about feeling invisible or that everything is possible. It is a product of the chaos they create. It’s a huge stupid game.
I never wanted MRN to leave IPPS, so my situation was different. I never asked him what he did evenings or weekends. I even apologized once for never asking him! I think my position made it so that he had to come up with very inventive ways to manipulate me.
I also wanted to smash his snow globe to smithereens after I escaped because I was so angry at him for giving me a silent treatment after I tried to be friends with him, and I tried to smash it when I told IPPS. I had a week long email conversation with her pretending to not be me but to be someone else who knew me. lol.
I found her naive (as was I once) because she did not want to believe what I told her – how we met, how long it had gone on, what he lies about (that’s crazy, she said), etc. She tried to get ‘the other woman’s’ name but I told her that if I gave her the name, she would be stalking this poor woman (me) along with her husband. I just want you to protect yourself, I said (I meant emotionally as well as physically). He sleeps around, he resists using condoms, etc. I did not send her any evidence or give too much away because I did not want to implicate myself. I also did not want to humiliate MRN with pictures or anything like that. I just wanted him to disappear and I was annoyed at IPPS for not keeping him on a leash because I thought if I knew what he was and what he did, so should she. It seemed she simply did not want to believe, though now I wonder if it has sunk in.
She strikes me as directionless. She has a higher degree but no career or sustained interests. They are well off but she did not even do volunteer work. She wanted to reconcile with MRN just as the last kid was finishing secondary school (empty nest). She writes like a teenage girl. She is ‘cheerful,’ a love devotee, but she isn’t unintelligent. She just does not have a fully formed identity. She keeps a decent home (I have seen the interior on IG), she makes bland food, and goes on long walks. She dabbles in art. Technically, she draws well but her ideas are derivative, as are her IG pics (which aren’t technically good). She was always alone unless one of her kids happened to accompany her (rarely). She did not seem to have any friends that she would see during the day.
Interesting part about the IG: she would post a lot when MRN was in town because I think she wanted him to think that she was busy. When he was out of town (a lot of work travel) she would stop posting, I guess because she wanted him to wonder what she was doing? I don’t know, but that was also a pattern. I thought she would post a lot when he was out of town to keep herself busy, and not post when he was in town because they were doing things together, but it was the opposite. It seems she was playing social media games too.
She would also use the kids (all daughters and all grown) as sentries to keep an eye on MRN. For instance, if she left early to where they’d spend the summer, one daughter would stay behind until MRN was ready to leave. The daughters would corral MRN into walks on the weekends and dinners out. If IPPS was out, a daughter would always be home so that MRN couldn’t go out without telling her.
The last time MRN and I saw each other he said he had to leave because his daughter would wonder where he was. I have kids the same age (early 20s) and no way in hell would I ever have to tell them where I was. Neither would they care (or live at home – they don’t). I told MRN at one point that he and IPPS were screwing up their kids because the kids thought they had to hold their parents together.
I don’t think IPPS and I would be friends because we do not have a lot in common but I don’t think we’d really dislike each other either. To me she is bland and kind of irritating, but to her I would probably be insane!! Sorry this is longgggg but the IPPS question was interesting to me!
When you say that his new toy affects IPPS’s social media, what do you mean?
SMH
I find it interesting that you find IPPS so vanilla. Isnt that how he wants her to be. No friends. No interests of her own? Just him and “their” life.
Her reaction to you telling her about her husbands affair did not surprise me either. The fact that she did not believe you comes from her brainwashing from the N. What surprised me is that she kept emailing with you. How long did these little chats go on? Did she ask how you got her info and so on?
I have no interest in contacting the IPPS as I feel….like I said before…she has bigger worries.
Kim e,
I totally agree about IPPS. Of course he wants her to be bland and have no interests. I once asked him what she did all day and he said he did not know. One reason I did not want to be IPPS was because I could never be her and I knew he needed/wanted the stability that she provided. I have a career, I travel a lot, I like being alone, I don’t like to cook or keep house (I don’t own a house or a car), I could never sit by a lake for three months over the summer and drink gin and tonics. I’d be bored to death. I was the perfect antidote to her, really, and she to me. But of course he fucked it up.
My convo with her went on for about a week. She did ask how I got her info but I didn’t actually contact her through her email, even though I had it, because I was worried that their kids used that email. She actually emailed me first after I sent her my fake email another way. It’s a long story but it wasn’t hard to get the info, though it was hard to do what I did. Our kids went to the same school (which MRN knew from within minutes of our meeting; he also knew that I was an alum). As soon as I figured out who he was, the rest was easy. I had donor lists, parental addresses, etc. That was early on and I did not use any of the info (though I did tell MRN I knew who IPPS was when the affair part started) until I reached the end of my rope. Funny but during our last days, I think MRN did not realize that I knew where he lived until I threatened to go to his house if he did not come over. He then suddenly gave me a day and time, and stuck to it!
SMH…I really think we are fraternal twins from different mothers. I cook so I can eat but really dont like to. I dust my house once a year whether it needs it or not (JK). I can realx by a lake with a R&C for a day but after that I need to do something. I like my job. I dont mind being alone but I would like someone in my life but I have been alone for so many years that is why DS is ok with me right now. Like I said before, if I didnt feel like I am in mud when I am with him, I would do it forever. I KNOW>>>>I will just explain that to him and I am sure he will only take part of my emotions and leave the rest…LOL.
Guess I am back in the trenches. Not sure how long this time. I know you are right about finding someone else to take my mind off N. Maybe I could juggle them both like in my younger days. Sounds like a plan to me.
I read all the articles on NS….I think how awful for some of the people….but I cant not relate/wrap my head around the whole thing………………
Kim e, I think so!
I am actually a good cook, though I hate cooking. Normally I live on ramen but I am on a wheat strike. This is what I had for dinner tonight – some limp salad mix with this and that thrown in (including some canned hearts of palm that had been opened and in the fridge for a few weeks). Then I was still hungry so I microwaved some nacho thing. Could I ever do that if I lived with someone? Not on your life.
Meant to vacuum about a week ago but haven’t gotten around to it yet. And when I do it, the vacuum will stay out because I never finish it once I start. I also drop my laundry at the laundromat for them to do.
What I meant about being alone is that I never want to live with anyone again, especially after my last husband. No thank you! I love coming home and having no one there. The only person I can tolerate for weeks on end is my son, and that doesn’t happen very often anymore since he is independent.
I thought MRN and I would last forever – IPSS, DLS – wouldn’t have mattered to me! I did try to explain it to him but the behavior would have continued and at that point, I could not pinpoint exactly what it was that made me so stressed out all the time (hadn’t found HG yet). By the time I found HG I had already escaped. And anyway, MRN did not want me to want to be IPSS. He wanted me to want to be IPPS so that he could further manipulate me. He was not happy when I told him I was fine being IPSS. Even though that is what he said he wanted. His tone completely changed. I even said ‘oops, shouldn’t have said that.’ When I told my therapist she said that he was reacting to my asserting myself, that he wasn’t used to having a woman who had her own life and opinions. I guess there was some truth to that, though the real truth turned out to be way more twisted than that.
I have tried for years to find someone to take my mind off of him but one of them died (he was a narc too), one of them was intolerable (oyster man) and one is married (work guy). More power to you if you can do it.
What does NS stand for? Sorry if I am being dense but it is late and I am tired. Three long days in a row.
SMH
NS is Narc Site. I had to reread my sentence to figure it out also. LOL
You have stated that your N wanted you to be IPPS before. What made you think that? According to HG a DLS will never be promoted as I understand it. An IPSS is like waiting in the wings for the chance to move up. HG explained that the DLS just does not fit the facade and never will. But then again I guess none of us ever really fit the facade as we all let the N down.
So what was the real truth that you speak of?
I am off work today just vegging. Going to check out the new gym later. As I am back on Weight Watchers, I eat pretty good but not as well as I could. I have a terrible sweet tooth. I also enjoy rum and tequila. Cant drink like I did in my youth as it takes me 6 times longer to recover now but usually save WW points for a R&C at night. Once I start hitting the gym again I will feel better. It has been almost 2 months and I can feel myself turning into a sloth again.
Kim e, Ah NS, of course. The real truth being that MRN was a narcissist, which my therapist did not believe until I came in one day and showed her one of HG’s posts.
A lot of things made me wonder about the IPPS thing but remember that I did not find this site until long after I escaped so I didn’t really study it that hard.
When I told MRN I only wanted to be IPSS he went all cold. He also tried hard to meet my son. When we were once deciding to end it, he told me on his way over that he was wearing his wedding ring. I’m like, ‘and’? It wasn’t as if I didn’t know he was married. I told him I never noticed whether he wore it or not and then I asked if I should put mine on too (still married but separated at that point). When he arrived we sat down and he talked as if he were making a choice between me and IPPS. He said ‘I can’t handle two relationships,’ as if we really had a relationship? Equal to the one he had with IPPS? I think he expected me to burst into tears but I wanted a break and told him so. I also wanted him to give his marriage a chance and I was leaving for a few months (which he knew). He gave me a surprised look and the hoovered me for the next six months.
Post-escape, I started referred to myself as his ‘alt-wife’ because he began to talk to me about things that we had never discussed before. I even said to a friend, where is his wife??!! He suddenly quit his job on my advice, and I think he might have told me before he told IPPS. I said I was proud of him and he said it meant a lot to him to have my support. That whole period was quite weird because he needed a lot of attention and support and I gave it to him. Maybe I was more his mother? Dunno!
This isn’t to say I would have fit the facade. But my overall point is that he didn’t REALLY want me to be IPPS (I don’t think). If he were to replace IPPS it would likely be with someone younger and more like her (I am older than he is and very unlike her). He wanted me to WANT to be IPPS, so at various points he treated me as if I were a candidate, even though I did not ask for that role. It felt weird to me when he would do it, as if he were not hearing me.
I did tell him in my ‘break up’ email that if he left his wife and could stand on his own two feet, he could reach out to me if he wanted to, but if we were ever to be together again we would BOTH be deciding what our relationship would be. That was before the shit hit the fan, at which point I told him he would never TOUCH me again unless he could prove consistently that he was capable of love. I know THAT will never happen.
All that said, part of me still believes we were well matched because we both take insane risks, we both dissemble, we have the same bucket list and sense of humor, our professional training is similar, we have similar backgrounds, have lots to talk about, our chemistry was insane, and we challenged each other in both good and bad ways (I grew a lot with him). But of course neither of us will ever change and he would never tolerate someone like me as IPPS.
Good luck with WW. I feel slothy too and will make it to the gym this week I swear. I did walk a lot the past few days but I am used to being more active and am generally pretty fit, though I am genetically lucky and do not have to work at it very hard. I also don’t want to lose too much weight because I don’t want saggy bits!
SMH,
I am in awe of this. You talk like it was a real relationship with substance and meaning. Even tho we have been told over and over that it is ALL an illusion. Mirrored.
You also talk Post-Escape that he came to you………that really threw me for a loop.
Are they just SO GOOD at what they do that it all seems so real no matter what phase of the “relationship” we are in?
I think back and remember when N told me we would write our own story. He sent the text and said chapter one: The Chosen
Chapter Two: Getting to know you.
I did not even notice the Chosen reference until weeks later when I was rereading all the lovely texts. Not know what exactly that meant at the time, I was flattered that he had “Chosen” me over all the others. Not sure I ever told you but I am 25 years older than N…..so my ego and feelings were over the moon.
Now when I think about the others he is involved with, I feel like I have something over them as I know the truth….well a small part of the truth.
There have been times where his wife will drive past me coming and going. I always thought it strange (maybe all in my guilty mind) that she would slow way down when passing me and just stare…like she knew. But maybe it was me that was staring at her and she was just reacting.
WW…now that was just blown out of the water….LOL. I joined that gym and the nourishment plan they have me on is the complete opposite of WW. Guess I will cancel WW and save the money. See if this other plan works. I think I am really going to like this place. It is not a typical gym where I can go and just work out any time. It is all group …8 people at the most……training. I can go as many time a week as I want. I need to go because when I lost 40 pounds I developed saggy bits and hate them.
Think I am looking forward to it as I need to start something new in my life. I used to be able to eat any and everything and never gain an ounce. Then I hit 50, quit smoking and the thyroid went crazy. That was the end of my dont have to do anything to stay skinny days. Then a relationship I had been in for 6 years ended and I went into the “stay the hell way from me” mode for 10 years. Literally. Then the N came along….I would say I was over ripe for the picking.
I could go on and on…….. is it healthy to go over it?
Kim e, I do not think it is healthy to go over it but that is what we do here, no? I didn’t think about it at all yesterday after I wrote all of that out, and I did not think about it this morning until I came here, so it doesn’t bother me to dissect it. I hope it doesn’t bother you either. This is a place to get it all out.
Twenty five years is a big age gap but that is awesome! Interesting about ‘The Chosen.’ I would have been flattered too. I am only a few years older than MRN but I was pretty attached to him. If I had ever come face-to-face with IPPS, I would have freaked as well. It was hard enough emailing with her. However, I had another affair many years ago and on several occasions we were all in the same place (this was at the end of my first marriage – you see, I do these things when I am transitioning). I once parked next to her in the school lot. But that was a much better relationship – I wasn’t stressed all the time.
MRN never SAID anything except that he loved talking to me and that when we were in touch, it was too intense. He couldn’t outwardly be my friend and my sexual partner (Madonna/Whore complex). In fact, one of the things I said in my ‘break up’ email was that he could not explore his erotic side with IPPS. He was very reticent – verbally expressive but not in writing. I intuited all of it but I am always told (including by MRN) that I am very perceptive. I have great confidence in my people reading abilities when I focus and care. The thing is, yes, it is an illusion but at least mid-rangers also do things unconsciously – they are illusions to themselves too, right? So he was dissembling with me and also with himself, as yours does too. I was dissembling with MRN but not with myself because I am not a narc and am aware of interpersonal dynamics, which he is not. That is how I figured him out before I even found this site post-escape. I just did not know all of the details or how to handle it.
The Ten Tests thread – I will answer that there.
So you understand about the saggy bits. lol. I have gained maybe 20 lbs since before my son was born (which is when I quit smoking) but a lot of it is in my tits :). I tend to lose weight when I am stressed. Since I am stressed a lot and and also fidget a lot, I think it helps to keep the weight down. But If I can get off my ass today, I will go to the gym. I am not much of a joiner so I just strength train on my own, which I find very calming. But your new gym sounds like a very good combo of diet and exercise. I hope it works for you but at the very least, it will make you healthier. You should substitute the rum and cokes with something else too. I don’t drink much, so would not know what to recommend but maybe someone else would.
SMH
thank you for sharing. it’s not long for me, i like to read. I don’t know any people who go through similar situations, so,every word is precious for me.I think being longer makes it more understandable. the reasons are important
also mine are long. -thanks your eyes for reading me, thanks your fingers to writing me –
we only stayed apart for 20 days. that’s why it shook me. also i don’t like to block anyone, from anywhere. i can’t handle with “hate”, with “vanish”. what you say is true.
I didn’t want a divorce either. we met online. he wrote that he was married. i can say that i tried to leave every day from the his first message. he chased me for months. he tried to convince me he was in love with me, he played the role of a victim who wanted a divorce. i wanted to give him a chance. there was no one in my life for two years. i knew that he wasn’t “true person”, i never wanted to be a “family breaker”. so never asked. he seemed to be looking for a way. if it was a golden period i can define mine as “with diamond”. it was highly deep.so actually i suspected that he was NPD but i couldn’t think about too much. the days were so fast.
we live in a male-dominant society. a lot has changed but basic things still exist. like spouse’s duties, like importance of relationship with his/her family… he began to expect the things which he expected from his wife, on the other hand he couldn’t “have” me as he wanted because he had to obligations and i was crazy. haha. I was objecting to everything, i was not quite -as he wish-, i catched his lies…around this time, he was probably testing me. and things weren’t what he wanted.
i found his IPPS’ IG. it was a private account. i sent request from a fake account. she accepted after a few attempts. i learned a lot of things about his family life. i saw a lot of lovely pics of him. i noticed that they were so close. but IPPS didn’t share anything in the months of my period – there was no “story” feature in IG at that time, i couldn’t miss any share –
i told him after few weeks. this was the biggest mistake. he took the ropes in his hand and started playing with her and me like puppets. now i am really sure he decides what she will share about him. because next days whenever we were bad, she shared something with him. also when we were good she didn’t share anything. (sometimes she just shared meaningful things about her sadness. )
we broke up in april. she only shared a photo in their wedding anniversary in april. i saw him at online dating site in may. there was just silence in may, june, july. -probably he found new-finally in august she shared 2. and again silence…
this is why i said “the new toy affects..” i understand that this whole cycle happens when there is a new one. all IG things definitely mean something but i don’t know if it is about us, or not. there are too many possibilities
your observations about IPPS are very interesting. i have similar ones -again-
sometimes i thought what would i do if i were her. have you ever imagine? -not in romantically way.-
what were his reactions when you talked about his marriage? just one more question : when you saw her IG, did you feel like he’s a different person?
ceyceyc, You are braver than me to send a fake friend request but I didn’t have to because IPPS’s IG is public and I did ‘talk’ to her with a fake email, so we are not that different! It doesn’t sound to me like your narc was manipulating her IG. It rather sounds like when you were being devalued, she was getting a golden period, and when you were getting a golden period, she was being devalued. It is like a see-saw. That is reflected in her IG posts.
When MRN first told me about IPPS and that they were reconciling (eight months after we met, but I was gone for five of those months), I left him. Three weeks later he contacted me on a dating site though he had JUST told me that he and IPPS were back together. Sounds like yours!
I saw some of what you describe also when the affair started a few months later. This also must have been around the time I found IPPS’s IG (I didn’t find his until much later because they did not interact). Finding the IG accounts was quite shocking. I thought I would find a happy family man, hugging IPPS and kids, barbecuing with the neighbors, but nope. It rather seemed that he was exactly the same away from me as he was with me. I began to think he had Aspergers (narcissism and Aspergers can present in similar ways). He was curt with people on IG, didn’t interact much, wouldn’t respond to questions, was calm, not affectionate with anyone. I have never seen a picture of him touching IPPS – not close at all. In fact, I have only seen two pictures of him even standing or sitting next to IPPS and when he smiles (rarely) it is a fake smile. One can tell because the eyes do not crinkle.
I noticed when they would have an argument because IPPS would go out late at night and allude to things – as you say, there was a certain sadness. He would also tell me that she was being cold, etc. But I also noticed that she relaxed as time went on. I told her about us around four months after my final escape, which was about a year after their reconciliation began. ‘But we were happy,’ she said. I had been gone for the six months before, he was home all the time (she said) and nothing was happening except he was hoovering me long distance and trying to get her to believe he had changed and everything was normal. She believed that things were fine. On the surface and from what I could tell from IG, he looked bored and of course not only was he hoovering me, he was waiting for me to break NC so he could re-ensnare me.
I analyzed his marriage in an email and he did not respond to it – we never discussed it. He wouldn’t respond to a lot of things but I also knew he read them and took them completely in.
He also started treating me the way he treated his wife but I did not conform so he would try to get me upset so he could push me away and accuse me of making demands on him etc. I am NOT your wife, I would say. You don’t keep a roof over my head, you don’t send me on nice holidays, you don’t pay for my clothes, etc. What the hell am I getting out of this? That was the beginning of the end for me.
It is no surprise that your narc probably has new supply and it shows up in IPPS’s IG. That is what I suspect is happening with MRN’s IPPS too right now. Either he has new supply and she caught him or she finally came to her senses about what I told her. Who knows. As you say, it is hard to know if it is about us or not. For my part, I don’t think it is about me now. It could be that MRN is hoovering me but that might not have anything to do with whatever is happening with IPPS. If she kicked him out, for instance, he might be afraid to contact me directly given the way things ended. That might account for the hoovers. Or he might have someone else and still be hoovering me. Hard to know because we cannot know the whole of their fuel matrix.
If I were IPPS, I would not tolerate his behavior at all. But then I would never be her because I would never not have anything to do, I wouldn’t want three kids, I wouldn’t want the trappings of her life (there is a reason they call them ‘trappings’), I wouldn’t tolerate what he does for a living, and I wouldn’t take my husband back if he cheated on me, which MRN had done before he met me and which IPPS found out about. When we met, they were separated, not divorced as he told me, and then she wanted to reconcile.
So, another long one. I hope this is helpful too (and readable). Ask whatever you want and I will try to answer.
I haven’t been on here I’m awhile. Several things happened eholr I have been gone. He unblocked me from a fake profile that he knows I know is him. When I failed to react he reblocked me then I deleted my IG account and lo and behold he changes his settings to make all photos yes tagged in public even though I’m still blocked I can now see them. That’s is so he can stay in my head.
They are always watching even when you think theft aren’t
Lori, Good to see you, though I hope your narc is not disturbing you with his antics. Your feelings are mine too – that they are always watching and do these things for thought fuel. MRN leaves little clues, like the LI visits. I am not on IG and he is not on FB as himself. He knows I know his fake FB profiles, which I blocked, so there are also weird FB friend requests with little clues as to who it is. My gut tells me that it is all him even though I have no proof but I had no proof that the email address he used with me was him either, which it was of course. I feel that I know him well enough to know which virtual things are him and which are not. He has stalked me on a dating site, on FB and on LI, the only three platforms I have ever been on. A virtual virtuoso!
Lori and SMH ;
“They are always watching even when you think theft aren’t” when I read things like this, a red devil -like in the cartoons- says on my left shoulder, “poor little girl, he doesn’t care about you at all. he is hiding from you. you treated him badly”
oh… luckily i have another shoulder on my right with a white angel. haha
i sit in the Nirvana of the “nothing”. he has only a LI account, i haven’t any. my ex doesn’t use the social media. there is no fake requests for me. so I wonder where he might watch
he doesn’t remember me, like a napkin he used the other day. I’ve listened a lot in classes at university but for the first time I understood what is the “lack of object constancy”.
maybe i should a message : dear ex; hello i am ceycey, i am a empty water bottle. please throw me in the recycling bin. so you can get a new one
I don’t write because I want them. just curious. i really feel like that i’m lucky. it’s hard with “nothing” but also it’s better.
ceyceyc, That water bottle comment is funny. I am glad you can have a sense of humor about it. They have all kinds of inventive ways of watching. If you read Kim e’s posts there are a whole lot of them. Mine always did it virtually. He left little clues that it was him though once he contacted me directly on a dating site, as I wrote in my last post to you. That was freaky because not only did he have a million other ways to get in touch with me but just three weeks before, he had told me that he and IPPS were reconciling. He also has several fake FB accounts that I found, and he is a big LinkedIn user. Once he told me he hardly goes on LinkedIn but I saw that he had left me a ‘calling card’ the same day that he had ‘liked’ an article on LI. I don’t look at his LI anymore (it is public, by the way – I only look at public stuff). You just cannot know whether yours is watching you or not but it is better with nothing, you are right. I am much calmer during the months that I do not notice any MRN hoovers because I go for long periods forgetting about him. The hoovers used to calm me when I wanted him to be missing me, but now it is the opposite – they make me a bit nervous.
SMH
I’m glad your MRN’S consistent about IG. my discovery was shocking too but in different way. mine tries to build a new world every time, with every new person. it sounds a little MRN. that’s why I asked you that question
for example ; his dating site profile is different than before now. he changed “looking for” part from “long-short relationship” to “non monogamous hook up” he deleted all romantic sentences in introducing part. ( There was a part where he wrote that he was a good kisser. he liked to kiss me and he always said he never kissed anyone like that. he deleted this. it was shocking to me)
also i found in IG ; they live in same apartment complex with IPPS’s family. they come from same city. their cultures, local accents, value judgements are different from me. he has two names, they call him with his second name, he introduced himself to me with his first name. he is a “local person” with his family , different in outside. he told me a lot of secrets that IPSS didn’t know (many of them were true)
he was a marriage victim, he was a man who looking for love with me. now he is playing the role of a open minded hot guy.
we discussed a lot about IG. we did hard fights. He always told me, “Maybe he deliberately shares. Maybe she wants to make others jealous.” so I thought the possibility of a manipulation
I saw a couple of intimate pose after arguments. previous year was rare. never happened this year.
“..and when he smiles (rarely) it is a fake smile. One can tell because the eyes do not crinkle.”
oh, i know this. but even if i see crinkles and think it’s real , my friends say ” don’t be silly. can’t you see he is looking like a snake. ” hahah. they nicknamed him as snake eyes.
i agree with you about tolerate. we are not the same, like yours. IPPS has OCD in my story. i think it’s a codependent-narcisisst relationship. I have not married before. i may not understand maintaining the “family unity” but i’m sure he didn’t treat me half as bad as he treated her. “being at home all the time”, “but we were happy” and many more are familiar. they seem happy to be legal spouses.
i just wrote her ” he is cheating on you. if you want i can tell everything” and she said ” never write to me again” . I’m never proud. i regret to write. i hurt her. she doesn’t need to new wounds.
i don’t judge but i also can’t understand her – also yours IPPS- . two years of poison was enough for me, she’s been taking for 15 years. and she is happy, IPPSs are happy. ok.
i can’t detect the post discard hoovers. I didn’t even notice if he did because i’m stuck with “nothing”. actually he didn’t go immediately. he deleted step by step but nothingness is so obvious. i saw a lot of post escape hoovers. maybe this creates false expectations for me.
you know, HG says ; “you are wrong if you think that he will never hoover you” . this is so true for full NC but i really really don’t think that he will. i’m cautious but as i said, whenever i read a hoover story there would be a red devil .
“…The hoovers used to calm me when I wanted him to be missing me, but now it is the opposite – they make me a bit nervous.” this is the best sentence that reflects my feelings. between somewhere calm and nervous.
thank you, i like long ones <3 – i am not sure that HG does- actually i have another question. what do you know about his family? (father-mother etc) -if they are exist- do you think that they know his situation? mine hates his mother – i think that she is the biggest narcissist- i saw her comments in IG. as i know so far, she didn't want to this marriage -15 years before-. but i think she knows his son and his abuses. she often brings hearts flowers smilies under IPPS' posts, she writes compliments about IPPS. but i notice that these happen whenever IPPS is unhappy.
Hi ceycey
“she’s been taking for 15 years. and she is happy, IPPSs are happy. ok.”
I guess for a woman it can be “ok” to be the one who shares home/house with a man. Being the Primary Source. Feeling a bit of seccurity knowing that ppl/crooks in the village/town see that she has protection of someone physically stronger than herself.
His name is on her mailbox.
Now men with NPD charge very much for this symbol of security. They abuse hard.
But if you want some explanation of why some women put up living with a man they really have to obey and adjust to, sharing him with others for 15 yrs, this is it.
I don t really understand why male empaths put up living with a narc woman for many years though. He doesn t exactly need her physical protection. He is a man.
It is called addiction.
ceyceyc,
My hoovers were classic but I did not recognize them for a long time because I had not found HG. For instance, after my final escape and my ‘break up’ email, I got an Initial Grand Hoover (IGH). I didn’t know what it was and so I responded and tried to be friends with him. Mine was very routinized so during this period he would email me about once a week, we would have a conversation about this and that, and he would try to lead it into sexual banter. I would leave when he did that. Then we had a huge blow up. The hoovers continued through last summer and now occasionally there are hoover ‘bursts,’ but we do not live in the same city or even country anymore, so he would have to directly hoover me if we were to be back in touch and I do not think he will do that. We scared each other at the end.
As for IPPS, well, my therapist at the time told me that about half of all marriages are for social purposes only. I think MRN’s IPPS wanted her marriage to be more than that but I do not think it really is more than that. When they were reconciling MRN told me that it was for finances, family and a long-term friendship. He did not mention the word ‘love.’ I did once – I said to him, ‘if you love her you should try to make it work.’ And I thought he was for awhile but he wasn’t.
You wanted yours to leave IPPS and so you were ripe for triangulation. I know that men rarely leave their wives (most marriages are ended by women) so I did not put myself in that position. I had also just gotten out of a marriage when I met MRN and I wasn’t ready for anything serious, so it really started out as a fling and ended up the most complicated relationship I have ever been in in my life. The only two men I ever left and returned to numerous times were both narcs – that would be my ex-husband (a Lesser as i discovered when I found this site) and MRN.
It sounds like your narc is a different sort than mine – maybe a somatic? Have you done a narc detector consult with HG? When mine contacted me on a dating site his profile said that he was ‘looking for someone to share’ his life with. Complete BS because he and IPPS had just reconciled. So whatever your narc writes you should be skeptical about. None of it is true.
I do not know much about his family except for his siblings. He told me that his sister was a control freak (pot calling kettle black) and I think she has a touch of whatever he has because I have seen her social media too. His brother had a four year affair, got caught and his wife left him. That scared MRN. I think they are all narcs and the father too – I have only seen a picture of him but the way he dressed and posed were exactly like MRN down to the sunglasses.
I don’t really understand MRN’s IPPS either except that she is a co-dependent and has very low self-esteem (I am sure he wrung all of her self-esteem out of her). They have been ‘together’ (if they still are) for more than 25 years. They have three kids very close in age. Now that the last one has gone off to University, just this year, I do wonder if IPPS suddenly went for her freedom. I do not know of course. She has never written to me again, even though she could at any time. It’s a very private and humiliating thing to be cheated on, so i think the main response of a lot of people (mostly women) is to deny or to push it out of their minds. Like you, I thought of course she will believe me but also like you, I did not send any hard evidence. I can understand how your IPPS told you never to contact her again.
You don’t want him. It is not worth the grief. I would recommend that you not look at his dating profile or at IPPS’s IG anymore. Stop with the social media for awhile and see if that helps. And tell yourself every day that nothing has to happen today. It can wait until tomorrow.
Hugs and what is your native language?
SMH and CC
I have thought about sending the IPPS anonymous flowers or small gifts just to mess with the N but stopped because I know sh e would pay hell for it.
Thought about sending him anonymous gifts (yes there are companies that do this) just to F with him and make him think someone is flirting with him. But since we are neighbors I never did for fear he would know it was me. Not sure any other victims know his actual address.
If I did send him something, it would be the dick shaped hard candies…….LOL.
Kim e,
When I was angry with MRN it crossed my mind to go to his house when they were away (public IG and all that) and spray paint something in large letters :-). One time, I actually did head to his house to confront him (IPPS was away) – I think he was supposed to come over and did not show up. I was tired of waiting and so left the house. He then texted me his whereabouts as I was half way down the block and I said ‘oh boy are you lucky.’ I did not tell him why. The only other time was post escape when I threatened to go to his house if he did not get his ass to mine when I wanted him to delete those damned emails. He gave me a day and time and stuck to it.
The thing is, I agreed to be a secret, so part of it was on me and that always stopped me from interfering or crossing boundaries. I hardly initiated contact and did not even think about him much after 6:30 p.m. or on the weekends unless he had indicated that he was coming over. I pretty successfully compartmentalized and kept my word until after I escaped, and I only broke my silence with IPPS because I wanted to disappear MRN. Just poof. Gone.
This all fits with my more general behavioral patterns, which is something that I have to recognize and learn to deal with. For instance, I am at the end of my work rope at the moment, had to stop myself from snapping at someone junior to me this morning and then sent two emails to my senior colleagues, both of which indicated that I was pulling back and drawing some boundaries. I know when I am burning out and an explosion is about to happen but with MRN I could not just disappear or ask for a break because his needs always came first, and then there was that addiction.
SMH, if I wasn’t married too and had so much to lose, I would have informed the whole world including his IPPS of our affair. He clearly knew I wasn’t gonna do it. Don’t feel bad, I get temper tantrums too! I deactivated my Facebook account partly because I didn’t trust myself, as I was getting sick of reading his hypocritical posts on humanitarian causes he doesn’t give a shit about or pictures of his perfect marriage subscribed by other people’s comments on “what a perfect couple” they make. Barf.
SP, I agreed to the affair – eyes wide open. I wouldn’t have breached that agreement had it not been for the abuse. Why not just block your hypocrite on FB?
MRN was preternaturally calm. I TOLD him that I had written a very long letter to IPPS, I think when he was trying to re-ensnare me. He obviously did not think I would anything either. I also told him that getting involved with him again would be like diving head first into an empty swimming pool. Did he know what I meant? Nope. That is where the danger lies for them – tone deaf to emotions.
As for my tantrums, I never feel guilty unless I flame at someone who doesn’t deserve it, like an underling. I also tend to do it over email so now I take deep breaths, write drafts, and let them sit for days to tone it down.
SMH, because he’s friends with my husband and I’m friends with his wife. Therefore, the subtlest manner to get out was to deactivate my account. I know he unfriended me after realizing I wasn’t coming back and he couldn’t contact me anywhere else because I blocked him everywhere. I spoke with HG about my NC weak points (my husband’s connection) and he was amazing telling me what to do. It’s like talking to Sun Tzu about warfare tactics. And no, that’s not a menu 😛 I remember I told Mommypino some time ago i control my explosions by typing a response saying all kinds of insults: motherfucker*#%!!! and then going for a walk without sending it. When I finish the walk, I usually feel better and can delete it. One of these days it’s gonna get sent by accident and there will be drama, but until then, it works for me.
SP, I forgot that he is friends with your husband! I guess you cannot make him go poof. You found the best solution possible and I am sure HG has given you the very best tactics, off of a menu or from a fortune cookie or whatever – maybe he plucked them from a hat!!
I would be petrified to send a response like that by mistake, so usually what I do is leave the recipient off the response email until I am ready to send it. That’s why I have so many draft emails to MRN still sitting in my account! Ha.
SMH, I mentioned the menu because NA made a funny comment related to a post about Taoism and I made a connecting joke, inadvertently of whether you were aware of that thread or not, sorry for the confusion. I don’t read in a linear manner, which can confuse people. Precisely regarding that, I read you felt emptiness for losing what you thought was gonna be a forever friend. I feel the exact same sorrow. I consulted HG for that same problem. My ET does not want to go back to my relationship with the narc, it wants me to find excuses to remain friends with him. The truth is he never was my real friend. I did invest more on that friendship than he did, and I need to suck up the fact that all he wanted was my fuel and whatever he could get out of me. So remember that. Like you, I also had thoughts and felt like contacting him, but I didn’t. Let’s remain strong!!!
SP, I actually resolved to get MRN out of my life while we were trying to be friends (post escape) because I could then say to myself, ‘would I let a friend act like this? would I accept this from a friend? and the answer was no. I think we tend to give our lovers the benefit of the doubt more often than we do our friends, so as soon as he was friend-zoned, I could critique a lot more easily. Not a real friend at all.
I recently missed him but then I thought – here you go, transitioning again (brutal workload all year and I just said no to more) and now you have free time and you are thinking of MRN. So that is what it is – when the rest of the mental clutter isn’t there, he comes to mind. Luckily, I have found something else that requires a ton of focus and energy, and allows me to meet lots of new people, so hopefully MRN will stay where he deserves, out of sight and out of mind.
I saw the menu thing – haha. I really think whatever HG says is just fine, no matter where he gets it! (jk HG – I know it comes from that brain of yours)
Stay strong!
hi cat b
i can’t see the “reply” below your comment. i write here, sorry.
i guess i understand what you mean. let me say worse; I live in a country where single women are seen as worthless. supposedly we have equal conditions but there is an unnamed pressure.
my married ex tried to devalue me with this point. whenever I rejected him, he got angry and told me ” you can’t go anywhere./ you will never find a husband, after this time. /sit down and wait for me. / i am enough for you. accept what i give you”
you know, they’re experts at smelling “fears” . but maybe it would have been much worse if these were true for me. in his twisted world i was an innocent girl but it wasn’t true. so I was going crazy when he said that. I was against it. maybe it was useless to a narcissist but I was sure of myself. I don’t think IPPS is as fighter as I am. she is more like a “volunteer”. thats why she was chosen as an IPPS. I couldn’t find a place even on the shelf.
i can understand to “fear of being single” or security, financial, child issues. i respect everyone. sometimes it’s very hard. I was there too.
but, really, some says – especially traditional and dependent ones- ” he is my husband. he does what he wants. we are family. every family has secrets, has problems. i must be a good wife.”
in my example ; IPPS has a full time job, she has a protective family,their daughter is in the age that understands everything -and she isn’t ok with all this mess.- i don’t know what’s going on in their house but I see that she’s blind from that love, not only because of issues
that’s what pisses me off
HG explained it very truly. this is an addiction. it doesn’t matter whether men or women
SMH
thank you so much. i should attach the last part of your comment to my notice board.
-i’ve said that before- you are so right. i know this is not en excuse but most of them was what I used to learn, they were old informations. i don’t look too often anymore.
i looked today. because there was an earthquake here today – 6.0 magnitude. (by the way, i live in Istanbul, Turkey. my native language is Turkish.) i am a teacher, i was at the school. it was a hard day for us. stressful and emotional. i wanted to write him. but i just looked IPPS’ twitter. evertyhing is ok.
we all have different characteristics. and some of us are stronger. but there is a thought that I cannot give up from the beginning : (except extreme and hard situations) , relative to escape, it feels a little more difficult to manage the disengagement in emotionally. this is not a general comparison. just for me. ignored someone is very different with ignored “by” someone.
i know, the reality isn’t like in my pinky cutie world but i still can’t over it. i don’t know how can i express myself. i believe in humanity, kindness. i don’t really miss him. i don’t want him back. i don’t want to stay friends with him. if only it could be possible that nobody blocked eachother. if only it had just finished. when i tried to escape never blocked him. i know it was a mistake but also i felt less anxious. i cared less. i didn’t want to write/call him.
since the disengagement everything turned 180 degrees. i have read and listened many thing. i know everything. i try to stay calm, stay in logic. I often succeed. i try to understand. but a tiny piece of me still feels very sad… i don’t write these as a lover, i write as a human.
“As for IPPS, well, my therapist at the time told me that about half of all marriages are for social purposes only” so true. my sister is a lawyer. she says “marriages are just legal contracts for me” this cold logic makes us laugh. but she’s right in a sense… after ex, my perspective has changed a lot. also i don’t believe in marriage in today’s world.
“The only two men I ever left and returned to numerous times were both narcs – that would be my ex-husband (a Lesser as i discovered when I found this site) and MRN.” oh, i came across this a few more times.
are there too many of them or do we always find them? how about now?
“You wanted yours to leave IPPS and so you were ripe for triangulation. ” actually i don’t understand this. i didn’t want it. never. i always said “i can’t be with a married man”. that’s why i tried to escape. that’s why he he kept telling me he was getting a divorce. i fought him about IG because he lied. i had no expectations. i was angry just about “lies”. not for close poses, not for his wife. he talked bad about her. if someone from outside could hear us, they could think that he would get a divorce tomorrow. the triangulation part is true. but this is his dark world. not mine. he was afraid of a divorce. but also denied it. “fake future” is his business. i never want. and funny, he reflected this on me. he had illusions about i want the divorce.
i suspect the “cerebral”. i couldn’t consult because of payment methods. also dollar is too expensive here. i am saving some money. i will contact with HG as soon as possible, i am working on it. i will ask for fuel type at first. I wonder more “who I am” than “who he is”. haha.
Hi ceyceyc, I am sorry about the earthquake today. I have been in many earthquakes and they are very unpleasant! There were a few terrorist attacks while MRN and I were together. During the first one, I was sure he would change his mind about what he wanted – that he would suddenly be all attached to IPPS. But that did not happen. He didn’t even acknowledge the attack. The second one happened right when I decided for other reasons not to respond to his emails for awhile. He got panicked and kept writing to me – are you alright? etc until I responded. My point I think is that their responses to things are never what we think they will be.
Nothing you did was a mistake if it made you feel less anxious. Again remember that they are not like you and me. A tiny piece of me still feels very sad too and for me it has been a year and a half since I have had any direct contact with MRN. It can be hard to lose someone you thought was a friend and would be part of your life for a long time.
I am sorry I misunderstand about you and IPPS – it sounds like your narc was setting things up so that he could make you compete with her, even if that was not your intention. He did this by making you think he would divorce, that he really wanted/needed you, etc. I think at one point you even said he wanted to have a child with you. It’s just brutal but you have to accept that it was an illusion both to you and to him. They do not have a core and as HG reminds us, they are only after fuel so to have any kind of human feeling for them – love or hate – is pointless. I know how hard it is to accept that your feelings don’t matter to them, but they do to us!!
I don’t think I normally attract narcs. I think because my exH was one I got used to behaving in a certain kind of way and because I had just left him, it was easy for MRN to slot right in, even though they were different kinds of narcs. I still have no idea why I tolerated what I did with MRN except that it started out as just a fling in my mind, and then I got more involved than I should have. It is like the frog in the water – do you know that parable? If you put a frog in boiling water, it will jump right out. But if you put it in cold water and then slowly turn the heat up, it will not perceive the danger. That is what happens to us. Slowly, over time, we get ensnared (there is a reason HG uses that word) and we are unable to see the danger until it is too late.
Maybe you could use HG’s Angel Assistance fund? I am not that interested in what kind of empath I am and I think I have figured out what kind of narc MRN was, but since I found this site after I had escaped (well, when I was in the process of escaping), I never did a consult. I will say that since I found this site I have never once reached out to MRN. I have been tempted, but I’ve never done it. Either way, you are in the right place!
SMH
thank you. aftershocks are still happening. the experts expect a major earthquake. maybe not too soon but it will… i guess they use difficult times as an excuse, both bad and good. i added a new “nothing” to nothing. he didn’t try to reach me. i guess, if the world divide into half , he won’t remember me.
you’re right. they aren’t like us.
sometimes some of my friends talk about their exes on “girls night”. i feel like that they are free to talk about them, but i am not. they support me of course but nobody was with a narcissist. they can miss exes, they can call when drunk etc. but i can’t. i shouldn’t.
it hurts me. even being a melancholic for a breakup is a luxury. like he is dead. but I can’t even find his body to bury. as if we never met. that’s why i stalk IPPS’ account , sometimes. i know this is not what it should be but really, somedays i need to say myslef ” hey, you’re not schizophrenic. there was someone like that. here are the photos. his name is here. here is his smiling…”
ohh, another section to add to the memoryboard ; ” …It’s just brutal but you have to accept that it was an illusion both to you and to him….”
i read what you wrote with a few tears
we had a day that i suspected i was pregnant – i saw light pink second line in the test- . I will never forget that. he was great to me. he was over the moon. i was crying. he was kissing me. i didn’t want it. he talked about our bright future. it was a crazy day.
being single mom is not very acceptable in here. both social and financial. and he was married. i didn’t know that how he could handle but he seemed like he really wants. a few days later i got a new test. i wasn’t pregnant. he exaggerated so much. he even questioned the possibility of having an abortion unaware of him. he even threatened to find the doctor if i did something unaware of him. i wish he had just broken up with me, everything is too much right now.
it’s an amazing parable. you explained it very well. your style of expression, your comments, are touch my mind and heart. thank you.
i heard Angel Assistance. i don’t know the details but i guess there are those who need it more than me. i’ll take a look if i can’t handle it myself. thank you. and congratulations for your determination. this inspires me.
ceyceyc, I couldn’t talk to any of my friends about it either. I tried but they just did not get it. That’s why it is good to be here – everyone here has had similar experiences.
As far as the narc not remembering you or thinking you are ‘nothing,’ you cannot be sure. When Trump was elected, I was in the US and MRN was in the UK. We hadn’t seen each other in months, though we were in touch and he was supposed to be coming the following month. You’d think I would have turned to him but I didn’t email him after the elections to express my shock or anything. Still, one morning, he emailed me asking me if I was okay and what I was thinking. I deliberately did not turn to him to express anything. Nor have I turned to him when anything happens globally or when he knows where I am and something happens. This does not mean that he does not think about me, as my Trump example demonstrates. In fact, sometimes these things can mean you enter the sixth sphere for a hoover (thought) because even if you are NC, there are times that the narc does think about you. You simply cannot know if they are or not because it doesn’t mean they always get in touch. But if you stay here and follow HG’s instructions and interact with other people who have been through the same thing, you will get to the point where you don’t care. I promise!
I am sorry I made you cry with the brutal reality but there is some strength in knowing that they are just empty shells. Even if MRN is still with IPPS (I have no idea, really – I only know that IG interactions changed and that I have four private visits to my LinkedIn, which was one of MRN’s favorite ways to hoover me), I do not imagine that he is ‘happy.’ Why? Because he cannot be happy and their reasons for doing things are completely different from ours. It’s a hard, hard lesson for us to learn. One of the last things I wrote to MRN was that he was unhappy and I could not make him happy because I was not the source of his unhappiness. You cannot make yours happy either because the source of his unhappiness is within him.
I can’t analyze the pregnancy thing (that’s something that HG might be able to comment on) but it seems like your narc was controlling you and thought you did something (have an abortion) outside of his control. That is why he got so angry. It wasn’t about the baby – it was about the possibility of you escaping his control.
I’m glad you understood the parable and I hope there are no more earthquakes!!
Hugs and stay strong!
SMH
i’m really grateful to everyone. you are all very kind and helpful. like a family.
obviously i’m black. he’s done. i asked before HG. the possibility always exists, but it may never be. i want to write a funny thought about it : you know, there is some stereotypes of regions, in every country. people from my ex’s hometown known as “stubborn, foolish, vigilant”. when narcissism and stubbornness are combined, something terrible happens. hahah.
you are right, as usual. don’t be sorry, i had that brutal reality. tears coming from acceptance. mine is another kind of nonsense. i am stuck at “to be ignored”. i wish i was so angry because of it. mine is idiotic kindness. i know it’s the stupidest thing in the world but i want to “being unblocked” . i never want to see him again. never want to speak. just i want “ignoring game” to end.
sometimes i want to go up on a roof and scream “f*ck the fuel ! f*ck the power !” -i’m sorry-
he wants to have many children. his IPPS has some kind of illness. she won’t get pregnant again. (i don’t know the details. i guess he said the truth. they have only a daughter. it’s also unsual for a woman like her )
he sees his sperms as “holly seeds” . the pregnancy is the most effective weapon for the controlling. also it’s a good excuse for a divorce. our society is hypocritical. cheating is a major crisis but if there is a pregnancy everyone sympathizes. also he has the right to marry by religious marriage. of course i would never accept it. i’m just writing the possibilities he thought.
thank you for everything. loves and hugs
Hi ceyceyc,
Let me tell you a story about MRN. At one point, I was very anxious and I asked him to stay in touch. He did (bless his black heart) for a whole month. Every day. By the end of the month I was much calmer, and even getting a bit bored with him. But before I got too bored, he disappeared. I emailed WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS and he responded (from a bathroom at 6:00 a.m.) that he was away with IPPS.
A few things to see here: 1) my attachment was obviously dependent on his inconsistencies, because as soon as he was consistent, I began to get bored; 2) he couldn’t sustain it; 3) he would rarely tell me the way a normal person would that he’d be out of touch for a few days or that he was leaving work or whatever. I know he was capable of it because he would do it when he wanted to make sure that I was 100% ensnared. But he wouldn’t do it routinely. So there are lots of things that they are capable of doing to make things easier that they simply choose not to do. Why? Fuel.
Your narc is probably getting thought fuel from knowing that you are waiting for him to get in touch (hoover or whatever). Everything you have said about him – holy seeds?? My gosh he sounds grandiose. The religious dimension is just another way for him to manipulate you and the situation. He even sounds somewhat dangerous, the way he accused you of getting an abortion. HG could really help you understand what he is through a consult.
I think fuck the fuel, fuck the power from the roof would be a very good way of letting your grief and anger out!
Love and hugs back!
SMH
thank you for your kindness. i always look forward to what you will write but of course all of us have a life, you may not always be available. i really appreciate your help, your time.
“The one thing I want to stress is that we spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they are up to”
like you read my mind…this makes me think a lot. sometimes my anger speaks : ” this effort was unnecessary for someone who hasn’t been in my life for six months,” of course i try to understand again, no matter what it say.
neither logic nor emotion, i don’t want anything. i felt lonely during the relationship. i still feel. i am so tired of being alone. i cried everywhere. literally. he was never there. and there was a fact that i had to accept : “heeey, he is a narcissist. deal with it. ok. bye. ”
really…is it that simple?! i am afraid, it is. i am not saying desperately. there is nothing to do. this makes me crazy. but i accepted. i had to. i feel bored.
you wrote a perfect example , again. i think i understand very well because i have many examples that look like this. i also remembered the article about compartmentalization -thanks to HG, once again-
i didn’t fit in any box. i don’t think that i’m the best option for hoovering. he’s a MRN. you know, he is the victim, he is the good guy, his heart (!) is broken. my name is written together with Joker, Darth Vader, Voldemort and a lot of villains, for him. he is right, by the way. i was furious, nervous,unbearable. he made a fool out of me. it was not good for either of us. i am not a narcissist but our war was bloody. no reason to come back.
i hope you don’t hear from yours either. i actually have a ridiculous idea : when one of us’ ex tries hoover, the rest of us will make “blocking”, like american football players. haha
ceyceyc, Whatever help I can give you, I will. You are a good student – you understand my examples, it seems to help you and it also gives me the opportunity to practice my narc analysis :). I think our narcs were quite similar in some important ways so what you say makes a certain kind of sense to me and I understand how you feel.
Let me give you another example/lesson that I think might be helpful: when MRN was trying to re-ensnare me for the last time (this was the period when I watched him closely for two weeks and then escaped), he said that he was cautious because my anxiety the previous summer had scared him (somewhat like yours telling you that you were nervous, unbearable etc). At the time, I agreed that I was overly anxious, and I smoothed things over. I said that it wasn’t all about him, that I had almost lost my job (not true but I said it anyway), and that I was fine now (and I was). I had not found HG yet so I was still operating as an empath but I had gotten some distance because I had been six months NC, so my ET was way lower than it had been.
Fast forward two months after I had refused to go back, he hoovered me endlessly, we were trying to be ‘friends,’ The ‘bloody war’ really started then. I stopped lying about why I wanted out of the relationship. It wasn’t because I cared about the affair exactly. It was because he was so contrary all the time. It was HIS behavior. I said I had done NOTHING wrong, that every time I tried to pull away, he couldn’t get enough of me, and when I wanted to see him he pushed me away. I told him he had an imagined battle going on in his head and it was his contrariness that caused my anxiety and all the problems. His behavior made no sense, I did not understand him, and then I said that if he EVER wanted to be in touch with me again he had to CONSISTENTLY show love and affection (previously I had only said that he had to be out of his marriage). That is not going to happen and I knew it wouldn’t happen but it was my way of drawing a line in the sand for myself and giving him a rule that I knew he could not follow.
None of it was my fault and none of it is your fault.
You have to get beyond caring what your N thinks of you. One of the problems we empaths have is guilt and that keeps us going back to try to ‘fix’ things. We feel guilty about whatever the N makes us think we did. A really helpful HG post for me is ‘Yes is not always best.’ It was a revelation that I could say ‘no.’ I am still practicing it in all areas of my life (work, for instance) but I am getting better at it! HG also once told me, after I asked how to say no without seeming to be rude (another problem we empaths have) is that it is not rude to say no. Wish I could find that response but I am sure K, our resident librarian, will be able to find it if she sees this.
I like that blocking idea! I can picture it! Empaths blocking the narc’s road with the main target right in the middle surrounded by other empaths with their arms locked together for protection. HG, it would make a good graphic if there is a post where it would fit – empath defense line a la American football (I know nothing about American football so not sure if there is even such a thing as a defense line, but it sounds good).
SMH
I think these are the comments to which you are referring. If they aren’t, let me know.
SMH says:
April 23, 2019 at 21:05
HG, if empaths cannot change who they are and narcs cannot change who they are, what is the best way for an empath to deal with a narc without being rude? If we dim our empathic traits, we feel rude – at least I do. I am having this problem with work narc. I don’t know how to act around him when he zeros in on me. It’s feeling like it did with MRN – like we have this secret empath/narc language. I need to put a halt to it before it gets out of hand, but without alienating him. Can you point to a famous person who is a normal? Or a movie scene that contains a normal and a narc? That way, maybe we can study it and have a model for how not be a magnet.
HG Tudor says:
April 24, 2019 at 09:59
Your sensation of rudeness is common and it is your ET corrupting your empathic trait of decency. You may feel that you are being rude, but you are not logically being rude because you are entirely justified in ignoring the individual who is a narcissist. Reject the effect of your ET and ignore this individual, you are allowed to do this. You can alienate the individual, your ET makes you think you must not do so, in order to further your engagement.
SMH says:
April 24, 2019 at 10:17
Wow. That is a really brilliant response, HG. Thank you. It never occurred to me that the feeling of being rude was my ET speaking. Somehow, when people demand attention I feel obliged to give it. That was a huge part of my problem with MRN. It goes on and on and on until I reach a breaking point. I have to examine that issue in myself. It is a relief to know that I am not being rude simply because I am not engaging. Thank you again. I feel like this was a major breakthrough.
https://narcsite.com/2019/04/23/narc-magnet-8/comment-page-1/?ak_action=reject_mobile
K, Yes! Librarian magic! Thank you so much! Muah!
My pleasure SMH
Ha ha ha….Librarian magic made me laugh! Muah, right back atcha!
K, Glad I made you laugh. It is more like Librarian Extraordinaire! You really have a special talent. I don’t think anyone else on this site can do what you do. Amazing. xo
Thank you SMH!
Laughter is the best medicine. Ha ha ha….my special talent is a form of “Empath Omnipotence”.
K, Sounds like the antidote to narc everpresence 🙂
SMH
thank you. i am most grateful for your support. i got lost in analyzes-especially self ones. actually i was trying to pretend like he never existed, trying to escape all thoughts
have you ever heard about “The White Bear Problem” ? Dostoevsky says in one of his books : “try to pose for yourself this task: not to think of a polar bear, and you will see that the cursed thing will come to mind every minute.” this later became a subject of social psychology. when people forcefully try not to think of something, one part of their mind is suppressing the forbidden thought, but another part of their mind “checks in” every so often to make sure the thought is not coming up – therefore, ironically, bringing it to mind. that’s exactly what i’m going through. i think more often when i try to escape.
i wake up with another feeling in every morning. worse, just as you said, i feel guilty. that’s the biggest reason i hate silence. i am too confused. that’s why your examples and analysis are so valuable.
i began to fear such similarity.haha. for example : ” I told him he had an imagined battle going on in his head and it was his contrariness that caused my anxiety and all the problems. ” this sentence shocked me because that’s exactly what i said. your example is very helpful -as usual- for the first time in a long time, i could feel that it wasn’t really my fault.
“You have to get beyond caring what your N thinks of you.” this is the biggest problem for me. as you said, it’s all about the “guilt” and “to fix”. i think, i am confused about “causes” and “effects”. i even adopt what he “causes.” he was of course a master of manipulation. he didn’t do me any “direct” harm. i was “clearly” mean to him.
it feels like i am in a horror sci-fi movie. like the narcissist’s spirit replaced mine, in the experimental lab. before : i knew he was a narcissist. i tried to end the relationship. after : he is hiding. i am guilty. he hates me.
thank you for liking my funny idea. i also imagined it when i was writing. i don’t know any rules or anything either, just see in some movies/series.
ceyceyc, You sound so much like me!
I did not know the White Bear problem, but it makes perfect sense that the more you try to forget something the more you think about it. So I began to focus on NOT trying to forget. Instead, I analyzed why I was thinking about it. I started to keep a journal during the six months NC. I would write down what I was feeling about MRN and speculate as to why. It kept me from breaking NC (I would go to my journal instead of contacting him) and I started to notice patterns. For instance, I would miss him during certain times of the day or when I was traveling. So then I began to realize that it wasn’t about him at all – it was about me and what was I missing in MY life? I was in a separate country to MRN at the time, and when I went back to where he was, I spent two months there without breaking NC so that I could get used to being there without him. When I did contact him, I had my things, my routine, my life back and my ET was much lower. He tried to re-ensnare me – we even saw each other and cuddled up on the sofa, but I was still able to say no because my ET was so much lower.
I only got angry at him because he wanted to be friends, so I tried. (he didn’t really want to be friends – he kept trying to get me back through sexual innuendo, but I would leave the conversation). Then I realized that no friend would treat me the way he treated me, so I let him have it. He still managed to get a lot of fuel out of me, of course, but I was also able to say things that I had never said. I even told him he was a psychopath and then made a joke about how fantastic it was that I had slept with a psychopath :). A notch in my belt!
No, no, no, it was not your fault. The confusion between cause and effect is because of the chaos that they create. It isn’t logical (to us) and so all of our logic goes out the window. We cannot make sense of it. But HG can and does, and that is how you learn to not care whether he hates you or not. By the way, he doesn’t hate you – at least not in the way that we would hate someone. He hates that you are a failed appliance, a failed fuel source. But not you, per se. He doesn’t even know who ‘you’ are because he has this narcissistic membrane through which all of his thoughts and perceptions are filtered. He cannot see the world as it really is or you as you really are. You do not strike me as the least bit crazy! In fact, I think you are very sane and rational!
Hugs!
ceyceyc, And yes, I would also feel like MRN was inhabiting me. It all seems so far away now, but it was really real back then. I would call him my ghost and tease him that because he was moving, I was moving with him because he owned me. He laughed at that, actually, because deep down he knew that is how he thinks – that I belonged to him and not to myself. They make us think that we belong to them and not to ourselves. They make us extensions of themselves so when we do not act the way they want us to act or do what they want us to do (which of course is impossible because the demands are always changing), they always have a reason to be upset with us and make it think that it is our fault. I got so tired of feeling guilty about everything that I went the opposite direction where NOTHING was my fault, and that is how I left it.
K
wow. you are amazing. you must be a fairy godmother or genie in a bottle. SMH wrote “K will be able to find” you saw her comment and you found. it is magical haha. thank you
SMH
me, myself and my tears, we read it all together. these comments are precious. “being rude” was one of my biggest worries, always bothered me. now i can understand what you mean. thank you
My pleasure ceyceyc
Ha ha ha…thank you for your kind words. I like to think that the magic is in the fingers!
You are welcome, ceyceyc. Isn’t K just magical? And she only uses a one letter name, so I am always really surprised when she finds her name in a post that is not directed to her. It is part of her librarian superpowers!
SMH
Ha ha ha…that’s my “empath omniscience”. Thanks for the Friday night laugh!
SMH
really, it seems like we are similar, not only our MRNs. so i can find myself in your writing. you’re better at understanding connections, patterns, interpreting the causes and consequences than i am. i am very grateful to find you. i like to read your stories with your MRN. your style is brilliant and fabulous. -slept with a psychopath? with a psychopath ghost? hahaha-
it was a difficult summer for me. everything came on top of each other. i learned that my ex-fiancée got married when i tried to accept the pain of break up with Mr.Snake-eye ( finally i found a name for my MRN. haha) .it was a serious relationship with ex fiancee, we were together for 8 years. i’ve known him since we were kid. we were getting along very well but his family didn’t want me, we disagree. so we were sadly separated but we never disrespect each other, nobody blocked each other. we met many times after break up. but i learned that he was the biggest liar in my life. all my strongholds have been captured. i had to face the truth with lies and pain. i tried so much to gain my self-confidence again. on the other hand, there are many problems in the country where i live. for short; i had to fight on many fronts.
i am a special education teacher, for 12 years, working with students with autism, mental retardation etc. my students have cognitive limitation, they have many behavior problems. does it look familiar? i should have accepted everything about the narcissism quickly, right?
like “cobbler’s children have no shoes” , i’ve helped many children- i accept them all as they are- but i’ve never helped myself. i try to be rational and sane, thank you. but i am not very successful. because all the roads go back to ET.
actually i have a small social circle. i have many friends, but a very few is “real”. i have no kid. i have very few colleagues, our school is small. it’s not easy to get someone new in my life, to erase someone from my life too. that’s the whole point. what bothers me the most with Mr. Snake-eye. i don’t have countless sources, like his. all i prayed was that he didn’t block me anymore. this sounds very unfaithful to me. but of course i know i shouldn’t expect the “right” behavior from a “wrong” person. this is the biggest problem i have to overcome. you are right about the hate. actually, i don’t care his thoughts about me. not exactly. i just can’t handle with the “ignore” caused by these thoughts. really. what kind of absence is this since 6 months? my favorite article is “Where’s My Hoover? ” haha just kidding. all things will pass… i am hopeful
i also tried to keep a journal ( one more score point for similarity) at first, it seemed it worked. i began to realize many thing, as you said. then i exhausted. i started to escape from everything about him. because i felt anger. i couldn’t stop to my inner voice. it said : “how it could be? he wasn’t my “everything”. how could his absence makes me feel like i’m “nothing”. screw him !! i hope he drowns in his silence ! ” you know the rest. i began to think about “white polar bear” .
“they always have a reason to be upset with us and make it think that it is our fault. I got so tired of feeling guilty about everything that I went the opposite direction where NOTHING was my fault, and that is how I left it.” ahhh SMH, you always read my heart . if you publish all this in a book, i’ll buy first. ( finally i was able to order a book of HG. i guess i also can manage to get yours. one day… haha )
thank you sooooo much and hugs
Ceyceyc, You flatter me. HG is a much more engaging writer than I am!
You are right that we have to question why the absence is so painful when they were not really ‘there’ to begin with, but I promise you that this will pass too. It makes perfect sense to me that Mr Snake Eyes (like that!) and your ex-fiance getting married/betraying you overlapped. Something similar happened to me – my ex-husband and I had separated (my second husband, my first is my son’s father) and I met MRN two months later. Turns out my ExH (#2) was a narc too. I met him just after my previous relationship had broken up. They can smell it when we are vulnerable and they take advantage.
But I would also add that WE use them to transition. You were going through a disruptive period in your life and Mr SE slotted right in. I think it is actually good for you (and for me and for others) to be alone for awhile and figure out what you really want and how you will get it, or if you don’t get it, how you will be happy in life. I realize that your country is more conservative than mine (and has a lot of problems, as does mine – don’t get me started on politics!), so it’s more difficult if you don’t ‘fit in.’ But there must be other like-minded people, even if your personal world is small. You have to put yourself out there sometimes to meet other people who you wouldn’t normally meet in your everyday life. Look at it as a positive rather than as a negative. You only have one life and you don’t want to spend it with lying ex-fiance or with narc Snake Eyes!
I am not surprised that you did not recognize his mental problems even though you work with disabled people. It is not something that most of us come into a lot of contact with so it is hard for all of us to recognize, no matter what our experience with other disorders. That’s why HG is here and how he helps us. Even trained therapists do not recognize narcissism when they see it.
Keep reading the blog and HG’s books – it is the only way to get to the surface when you feel like you are drowning. Hugs.
“You are welcome, ceyceyc. Isn’t K just magical? And she only uses a one letter name, so I am always really surprised when she finds her name in a post that is not directed to her. It is part of her librarian superpowers!”
SMH, we both wrote “magic” , without awareness. because, yess, it’s a kind of magic. i wonder if K could be the Hermione in Harry Potter ?
ceyceyc
Definitely House Gryffindor!
And we know who the Slytherins are.
SMH
Ha ha ha….Damn skippy! Those snakes.
Ceyceyc, or like Glinda the Good Witch in the Wizard of Oz. Do you know the Wizard of Oz?
K
yaaay ! 100 rubies for the house point hourglass of Gryffindor
SMH
“And we know who the Slytherins are.” hahah, i can laugh at this forever. you’re amazing.
yes, i know the Wizard of Oz. you are right, K should be Glinda.
ceyceyc
Ha ha ha….Gryffindor rocks! I do like Glinda!
The magical words: there’s no place like narcsite, there’s no place like narcsite…
True
SMH
Ha ha ha…there is definitely no place like narcsite! And there’s never a dull moment.
SMH
thank you for your supportive words. they always make me feel good. i’m also trying to follow your comments for others. you write great. – of course, HG is unique, by the way. –
i’m going through escape days,again. i have a confession to make : sometimes i have trouble to reading HG. this is not about the “bitter truths”, i just want to forget everything. i don’t want to know anything about a man who isn’t in my life anymore. i don’t need his (Mr SE’s) truths, perspective, thoughts… everything we lived was a lie but my pain is real.
i actually understood at first that he was a narcissist. i saw the all problems. but i didn’t manage that well . our school principal is also a clinical psychologist. i even consulted her once. i didn’t give the details but i told about some red flags. she said that “having traits” and “disorder” were different each other. of course i knew that. and i felt bad about labeled him.
i am pretty sure that he has a problem. but i can’t diagnose. i understand now, it’s not necessary. my experience with him is enough. but sometimes i think about if he is a narcissist or not. i guess this is about “absence”, again. today i have read countless hoover stories in here and i choose “he is not a narcissist, he is just an asshole” and also choose “sadness”.
i think i’d better not be here for a while. i locked all the doors. -he doesn’t try to go in anyway. – i accept everything. he was a god. i deserve to go to his hell as a dirtylittlesecret (!)
ok. i am out. i am really really exhausted. i don’t care his world. i am so sad in mine. i don’t care “why” questions about him. i need to focus “how” questions about myself. how can i stand up?
i will be here with my “logic”, soon. i am going now with “why doesn’t he write to me” question. what you have written so far will be with me. all very valuable
hugs & loves
Hi ceyceyc, Do you mean you are leaving the site? If so, I totally understand. I never had to leave but it would trigger me occasionally (doesn’t anymore). We all think maybe we are misdiagnosing but the bottom line is that if SE is an asshole then he’s an asshole. In a way, it doesn’t matter if he is a narc or not, right? (He sounds like one to me.) He left you with a lot of pain and that is enough reason to stay away from him.
My therapist didn’t diagnose MRN properly either but she had not met him and was not treating him, so I always took what she said with a grain of salt. When I found HG I downloaded one of his posts and took it to my therapist. This is MRN, I said. He has narcissistic personality disorder. My therapist believed me! I think shortly after that I did not need her anymore because I had escaped and was leaving for five months anyway. But I would go back to her if I needed to because she is open to a conversation and questions. She doesn’t just tell me how things are. Hope you are okay. Hugs!
HG
Why would “Moving the car wounded, rather than challenged”?.I would think in my perception it would make him think he was losing/lost control.
There is no emotion in moving the car, thus it wounds.
HG…there was plenty of emotion in my moving my car. I hate that I had to do it. Not just to a different parking spot int he same lot but to a different lot across town. But I get there was no emotion for him to see.
Why would it even wound him?
If you moved it and he did not witness it, there is no fuel, therefore it is an act which threatens control but do so without fuel and thus wounds.
HG,
Does the same thing go for moving/removing YOURSELF (like from him finding me at work)? Would that be considered wounding? I thought that would be neutral nothingness, since he can’t know I did it on purpose…I have no choice though, with NC.
HG. Are you serious? Moving my car causes wounding? Part of control is where I park a hunk of metal?
HG. Does it threaten control more if he sees me moving the car versus just realizing it was done?
Yes.
HG. Can you explain why seeing the car moved threatens more than noticing it is gone? I understand the wounding aspect of it being gone and the moving not being seen but not the control. My way of thinking is it has been moved period
Thank you
Because you are there.
HG…AAAAHHHH. Now I get it. It is not the car it is the person.
Thanks HG
Bingo!
That’s really interesting. I would have thought that it would have threatened control more if the N had not seen it because if he see’s it he could rant at you/ chase you and attempt to regain the control. I guess it makes sense if he sees you do it and has no means to do anything about it.