5 Common No Contact Mistakes – No. 4 The Need To Sign Off


The most common conclusion to the romantic entanglement with our kind is for you to be discarded. Certainly this is what happens the first time around for most people. Later on, the likelihood of it ending because you escape increases as a consequence of either increased knowledge or awareness and/or being unwilling or unable to endure the consequences of your treatment for any longer.

Where you have been discarded, it is understandably common for victims to do a number of things, which includes :-

  1. Trying to resurrect the Formal Relationship with us;
  2. Wanting answers as to why you were discarded;
  3. Wanting answers to understand how you have been treated;
  4. Wanting to address outstanding issues such as financial and/or property issues;
  5. Wanting us to understand how much you love us/you are hurt/you are angry etc

Whilst you may want to tear a strip off us and give us a piece of your mind it is usually the case when you have been discarded that your response is not so much an aggressive one, but more one of bewilderment, pleading, trying to get together again and sort matters out, or eventual resignation and hurt with a recognition of the need to tie up those loose ends such as money owed, the return of possessions and so forth. The general stance by those discarded is not usually aggressive in nature.

When you have been discarded from being our Intimate Partner Primary Source this has happened most of the time because you have been replaced by somebody else. We have somebody new, exciting and with that wonderful positive fuel which we want to last forever. This means that you will be effectively deleted from our minds. This is the ideal opportunity for you to establish your no contact. We have focused elsewhere and we do not want you interfering with our new embedded primary source. You are actually being given a head start at no contact but most people do not take this opportunity. This is because they cannot make sense of what has happened to them, nor what they need to do. They remain in the emotional sea and unable to make any progress.

The desire to sign off and gain some kind of closure by engaging in items 1-5 above (and more besides) means that you try to contact us, whether it is in person, by letter, telephone call or electronic message. At best you will be politely rebuffed and if you accept that rejection and stay out of our way, you are highly unlikely to hear anything more from us until the new primary source is devalued and we come after you by virtue of the hoover. However, if you continue to want to achieve the “sign off” by engaging in sustained contact you will receive malign hoovers to drive you away. You will be smeared even further and you will be triangulated with the new primary source.

However it will not end there.

If you eventually stay away and look at implementing no contact, your post discard behaviour has generated a significant risk to maintaining that no contact. You have already been painted black by virtue of being a treacherous and failed appliance. Your failure to accept you have been discarded (because you keep contacting us) not only infuriates us because we see it as our right to engage in the golden period with the new primary source free from interference from you, but you are failing to do what we want. Yes, we will issue malign hoovers for the purposes of drawing negative fuel from you when there is engagement. Your insolent behaviour for not  staying out of our way means that when Follow-Up Hoovers occur at a later stage (subject as ever to the Hoover Trigger and Hoover Execution Criteria) is likely to result in a malice obsession trigger so that there are repeated Hoover Triggers and that we will embark on a malign campaign against you.

Thus, when your replacement is being devalued, we will be seeking a replacement and one of two things will happen. We will either devalue the existing primary source, seduce a fresh prospective primary source AND malign hoover you by way of punishment or we will devalue the existing primary source, seduce you once again and do so purely for the purpose of drawing you back in. You will be drawn back in but only as an Intimate Partner Secondary Source and then we will torment you. You will be placed on the shelf for long periods by way of punishment. You will be subjected to devaluing behaviour, this being one of the exceptions to when IPSSs usually enjoy elongated golden periods.

It tends to be the case that the Lesser and Lower Mid Rangers will adopt for the malign hoover campaign only. The Upper Mid Ranger and Greaters will adopt one or the other given their greater degree of sophistication and calculation.

Thus the desire to seek some kind of sign off with us when we discard you has numerous effects but so far as no contact is concerned you have created the risk that we will come after you with a vengeance either in a malign fashion or to torment you further by bringing you back under our wing in a supposedly benign fashion.

Your repeated failure to do what we wanted post discard means you run the risk of creating a malice obsession with us and thus this will cause repeated Hoover Triggers so that in ordinary circumstances you may well have reduced the Hoover Triggers to a very low level, but now, you are causing them frequently with the consequences that follow as we keep hoovering looking to disrupt your attempt at no contact.

Thus, that is the risk where you have been discarded. What of when you have escaped?

In this situation you are far more likely to have resolve, worked things out, planned and perhaps you even know what we are. Combine this with how you have been treated by us means that the desire to “sign off”with us in some way is huge. In the case of your escape, this manifests usually in the following ways:-

  1. Seeking to expose us to third parties;
  2. Telling us how terrible we are;
  3. Looking to hurt us in some way;
  4. Unleashing your anger on us;
  5. Telling us we need to change and seek help.

In essence your sign off is not so much about seeking answers and/or sorting things out as it might be when you have been discarded but it is about getting one over on us.

You will undoubtedly feel better for telling us what  obnoxious, unfaithful, hurtful bastards we are. You will feel a sense of relief at telling us how you hate us or how you pity us. You will feel a sense of accomplishment by telling us what we are. However with all of that comes a considerable risk to the no contact you will want to put in place once you have escaped.

First of all, the usual “sign off” is done in a fuel filled manner. If you confront us you will be utterly unable to deliver your tirade or announcement without giving us fuel. Even if by telephone or in a letter it will be fuel filled. I have seen it often. This means that your last act as you escape is to remind us of what an excellent fuel provider you are. The consequence of this means that the Initial Grand Hoover which follows as we seek to bring you back under our control will be fiercer. If the IGH does not work and we are forced to find a new primary source, when there is a Hoover Trigger for a Follow-Up Hoover further in time, you will automatically lower  the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria because you have given us an excellent fuel imprint at “sign off”. Thus you increase the risk of successful hoovers.

If you have wounded us through this sign off (which usually happens with exposure attempts rather than your final message to us) then this  creates a risk to your intended no contact. The IGH becomes furious as we are driven to assert control, gain fuel and heal the wound. You will also have created the risk of causing a malice obsession so that if the IGH fails, you have increased the risk of Hoover Triggers when we devalue your replacement. Thus when you are trying to maintain no contact we will keep hoovering you with intensity. Either from a frenzied IGH or later through repeatedly triggered Follow-Up Hoovers which will be malign in nature.

Accordingly, whilst the desire to “sign off” with us in some way will be either inevitable (post discard since you do not know what you are dealing with) or difficult to resist (post escape because you want your final say to us) the fact of signing off will increase the risk that your no contact implementation will fail.

Resist the temptation to sign off and thus maximise your chances of a successful no contact implementation.



  1. What happens when one escapes and is discarded almost simultaneously? I left him after the second confrontation regarding his porn addiction, and returned to my apartment. He moved his new supply (and her mother) into his home two days later.

  2. I just want to say Ive read and listened to your youtube channel. I was married to one for 13 years, I would call him mid range/upper narcissist. He doesnt affect me these days, I see everything he is doing is solely for fuel. I know there will be many like me. I have no feelings toward him, no anger, no why me, no nothing…….I am well past the stage of signing off. I dont need to. I dont need answers, what good does that do. I dont engage, he tries and tries to get his fuel. We have a daughter together so there is contact as there is no possible other way, but I can deal with him easily now I see him for what he is and what he is trying to gain from me. I accept what he is and how he behaves, that is who he is. BUT I dont need to be apart of it or feed him any longer and for that I am thankful. I am thankful I had the strength to kick him out and keep him out. Do I have anger? No…am I hurt? No….Poor me? …No. I do feel sad for many people, men and women that try to figure this out, try to work things out and in the meantime destroy themselves. You really have to find your self worth and gather your strength to be able to walk away and never look back. Signing off?………no. I don’t need to do that.

  3. This one still gets to me. I still have this urge to sit down and have dinner with him and have this conversation about how I now understand what happened etc. Just have a matter of fact conversation about it all. Which we all know would never be just that. Not with a narcissist.

    I hate that silence is the most powerful weapon I have. I wish it could be my voice.

    1. Empath007
      He wouldn’t understand it anyway as he would not accept that he is a narcissist. Your closure has to be that YOU know, but I understand the feeling of wanting to verbalize it.

      1. Thanks NA. He actually does know he’s a narcissist. He admitted it to me. I suppose that’s part of the reason there is still occasionally temptation. But I see it as a pointless venture. And I also have no desire to give him what he wants and make him feel like some sort of King.

        1. He won’t know the type of Narcissist he has admitted to being, therefore he hadn’t actually admitted to what he is.

          1. He said he researched it and he met the criteria. He was a very intelligent person in comparison to the other narcs I had met. He was always researching all kinds of things… gathering facts. Patient. Waits years before approaching victims as he gathers information on them etc. He was no lesser narc that is for sure. Very, very carefully chose his words and actions.

            I realize none of that matters anymore. Im proud of myself for getting out. But we are part of the same social circle. It’s only a matter of time before we run into each other. And I sure hope I can ignore him when I do.

    2. Empath007, I am the same way. I want to have a conversation. Don’t adults in a relationship have conversations anymore? I like silence in the right time, but sometimes things need to be said, no?

      1. Oh I know Kelly D, even in my relationships with non narc men I’ve had I find honest conversation is difficult to have for many. I guess I now understand I am different because I am an empath, so other people don’t instinctively connect as deeply as empaths. I wish I could meet a nice empath man…. lol. That would be amazing. But I have yet to meet one. Cause I attract creeps 🤣🤣

        1. empath007,

          As a man, and presumably some sort of empath, I can tell you that even an empathic man can find it difficult to have an honest deep conversation. It’s not that I would necessarily lie, but I would probably witheld certain information or refuse to discuss other, especially if I’m having trouble processing it myself, or if I am under the impression that sincerity would produce more damage than a lie (I am a dirty empath).

          My theory is that this is the way men are wired and also built by the environment, to process things internally, and they fear or are bothered in some way to express what they think and feel entirely.
          Of course, there are various degrees in this.

          To be honest, even with her (my Nex) I haven’t been quite entirely honest. Really glad I wasn’t… 🙂

          1. I’m not sure it’s just a mans issue. I think a healthy fear of ones parents growing up causes a lot of people to have difficulty with honesty. A lot of people don’t recongnise their own pattern of behaviours, nor do they want to because we all develop different coping mechanisms growing up and it is difficult for people to not act as they were designed too. We are creatures of habit.

            I do think men have an easier time exhibiting these behaviours as it is more societally engraged as well. People are complex. Lots of reasons we do as we do. This also poses a problem for women dealing with narc men… we excuse away the behaviour because “boys will be boys” mentality. It’s important for women to focus on actions..
            Not words.

            I always had a healthy respect, but never fear of my parents. I was blessed that I could always be myself and I knew there was unconditional love coming right back at me.

            As a result my empathetic “sin” (as HG would say) of honesty is heightened way beyond most. That’s not to say I am a saint… far from it I am also is dirty empath who has some strong narc traits that come out when necessary. But my honesty is a real issue for me 🤣 it’s too much 🤣 I have literally no secrets from the important people in my life.

            I think I’m now at the point with Kelly D though. I don’t think I was meant to be in a relationship. There is no one out there for me. I loose the nice ones… I loose the narc ones… I’m just one meant to roam free hahaha.

            Thanks so much for your response though! Was nice to hear a male empath perspective.

          2. Hi Abe

            Yes I see that with men ,they tend to ponder things for much longer than women and keep a poker face.
            I think us females prob partly get emotional overload faster and need to discuss .I hope I’m not being sexist here it’s just my own personal observations and the way I react.
            Men tend to be less reactive ,less obvious when hurt or annoyed or worried.
            It’s something I’m very bad at , my emotions are always written on my face ,I’ve become quite an aloof distance person over this as I’m hurt so easily ,or I find it hard to process due to deeper things.
            Maybe it goes back to hunter gatherer times when a man hunting had to hold their cool in a very dangerous situation.

        2. Yes, please, empath007, I would love strong, sensitive man. Not sure that exists though. I feel like no one is for me. Maybe in another life? I think I have to just resign myself to being alone. I’m not even looking to marry anyone. Eek lol but is it too much to ask for a mutually loving, respectful relationship? I’ve wasted so much time trying to make this narc see reason. I’m well and truly exhausted.

  4. Well, the people I deal with aren’t narcs but men of a more insidious nature. They’ve been given orders to turn me to the dark side so to speak and they can’t lose or they lose something. It’s a different war for me where exposure is the goal not much as getting away cause they are stalking my every move. They have to be exposed and dealt with lawfully since these are unapologetic criminals.

  5. Hi Honey I don’t have any desire for a sign off now that I know what he is but I am pretty sure that he has a malign obsession with me though.
    I do still care about him but after the hell he put me through I am not interested in letting him back in he will never get control over me with malignant hoovering I don’t don’t fear much and really he is wasting his energy trying to make me afraid of him or whether or not he hates me because I am not going to give him a reaction to it he can get his fuel elsewhere.
    Anyway my question is about the obsession part I don’t even really even acknowledge him anymore I am aware of his presence but really doesn’t have much affect on me anymore it’s like I have built up my ammunition to it from over exposure and also it is predictable now , his arsenal has come down to just a stern look every time I see him so the malignancy has lessened a lot but he still trying to get my attention just so he can give me a dirty look he is not getting a negative response from me so no fuel I would have thought he would have given up by now he is actually starting to make me think he is pathetic he is like a dog with a bone
    I have made no attempt to contact him and I don’t bring him up to anyone I have had a few people recently bring him up to me and I am expecting a Hoover so he won’t get a response from me and yes I am definitely strong enough to resist it . What exactly is he expecting to come out of this ???

  6. “We have focused elsewhere and we do not want you interfering with our new embedded primary source. You are actually being given a head start at no contact but most people do not take this opportunity.”
    This is such an underrated gift. A chance to pull down the storm shutters and run for higher ground.

  7. Oops!

    Been there did that wore the t shirt! All in the early days following the horrific discard.

    Didn’t know he was a narcissist then.

    Worst thing I did. Set me back healing wise and caused my ET to go into overdrive.

    Don’t make the mistakes I did. I suffered with smear campaigns, further humiliation and degradation, stalking, awful triangulation and a bit of love bombing and a lot more lies thrown in for good measure to really put me in my place as a useless worthless appliance who meant nothing to my ex narc. All the while he had the little smirk on his face and was the sole audience in the pick me dance between myself and the new supply. She was so happy he chose her!

    He didn’t have a lot of choice I eventually said no and he can’t be alone so did a lot of love bombing and brain washing on her as damage control and went about his wonderful life while I rode the shit storm :-(

    What did she win really? A narcissist who at the moment is all wonderful and glittery and sparkly but underneath the glitter and sparkles is a pathological liar, a manipulator, an abuser and as HG says a Narcissist is a Narcissist is a Narcissist. He won’t change. She won a great prize alright.

    NC is the only way to go. Wish I’d known then 8 months ago what I know now

      1. HG. I have never wanted or received closure when I escaped. I was happy just to be gone. I didn’t need closure or apologies why would I when I know every word he says is a lie? I have remained NC for 6 months and have had no hoovers despite being in the same social sphere as my Lesser Nex and his new IPPS.In fact he has been no trouble at all to me thus far .I’ve made him invisible to me. I know he’s there but I Ignore his presence in person and online. He usually skulks away after a while.I’m aware that this may change when he loses interest in his new squeeze but my NC is solid.

    1. Deb’s, it took me a long time to come to terms with the “win” the other appliances thought they had. It got to the point that my focus was no longer on the narc but it was an obsession to feel like I had the win over the other girls. After all I was there the longest, I endured more. How dare they think they can have more misery than me right?! Ha, now I think about it and I know that all it would take is a few text from me (grovelling of course) and I’m back in. I don’t want it though. They can have it. Let them have their win, I know it’s a loss.

      1. Hi mercy

        Can totally relate to what you’re saying. My obsession at first was with her. ET telling me she must be better what does she have that I don’t have. She won he chose her he made his choice etc etc. Even she said that to me if he goes to Bulgaria to see her he’s made his choice and that was rubbed in my face big time until he convinced her to block me even though she was the one who made contact with me?!?! Bizzare to say the least!

        It was only when I realised he was a narcissist and that he won’t change and essentially all she is getting is a false mask and love bombing right now. It’s all damage control for him and to save face. Image is everything to him.

        He also has nothing else now so he’s in love bomb overload to keep her on side as regardless of what he’s told her he did cheat on me he is a pathological liar, he is an abuser he is a narc full stop. By overly valuing her with all this OTT flattery he’s deflecting her from what he really is but eventually his mask will slip and in the back of her mind she knows he’s a cheater but because he’s her soul mate and they will be kings and queens together (his words and he’s 39 years old) she believes it all. She’s only 24.

        I haven’t lost a thing. I lost myself from the abuse over 12 years but I’ve gained so much now.

        Logic says that all I lost is a self centred, empty shell of a human being who emotionally and psychologically abused me, threatened to kill me and made me feel like a below standard human being who was worthless.

        She has gained that person and has done me a favour which sounds awful as part of me feels sorry for her but telling her about all the things he’s done will get me nowhere. It’ll give him fuel, hurt me in the process and she won’t believe a word of it.

        Unfortunately it’s up to her to figure out what he really is and like me I’m sure it’ll take her many years before it gets to that stage and by then you’re well and truly hooked and conditioned from the abuse and believe you are worth nothing so you stick with it and look to your narcissist to give you validation just so you can validate your own worth. Mindf**kery.

        1. Deb’s, I love your logic and I don’t think it’s awful for you to think that way about the new appliance. She will know your pain and your relief when her replacement comes along.

          1. By then it won’t even cross my mind as I should be healed by then hopefully.

            It is awful though when they plaster how wonderful everything is for them everywhere while you’re left picking up the pieces.

            The minute you stop questioning why and how and realise they won’t understand it from your point of view nor will they feel your hurt or pain or feel remorse or guilt and it’s because they aren’t wired that way and their thinking isn’t like how we all think it all becomes easier to process. Doesn’t take it away but it makes the sounds start to heal and each day seem a bit easier to get through.

            Certainly recently for me when I stopped letting the ET consume me and applied a bit of logic it felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders.

            I don’t care what he does or doesn’t do now. Regardless of what he does now what he did to me was real and the best part was I learned I wasn’t crazy after all despite him telling me I was looool!

            Every cloud has a silver lining thank you ex narc!

          2. Debs, I know what you’re saying about a weight being lifted off your shoulders with logical thinking. You are right, it may not have been real to him but what he did to you is real. The logic may help us through, but the scars that were left on our emotions will never fade and they are proof of how real it was to us. Its sad the magical innocence that was a part of our emotions has been damaged forever. Sometimes I wish I could have gone my whole life thinking that there is good in everyone. It’s just not practical as an empath amongst narcissist though. The scars are my reminder and even if logic is lonely at times, it is what saves us from further damage.

            Try not to think about how “wonderful” their relationship is right now. You know all to well that it is short lived. When you are fully healed she will be picking up the pieces. When she is discarded or escapes she will be thinking of you and what you went through. She will know. You will have your day Debs but hopefully by then you won’t care anymore.

    2. LOL I also went to this ‘Amusement Park’ and got a t-shirt for my efforts. I did ALL the dumb things. Literally. Ah well. LOL you live and you learn, and I guess being a “love devotee” it wasn’t all for nothing. My love wasn’t fake. It’s not my fault they were lying about who and what they are to themselves and everyone else.

  8. Thank you for posting this. Its been 10 weeks since the narc has disengaged with me. Unfortunately I have to work with the narc so their is a little bit of contact. We only speak about work and its either over the phone or via email. In 10 weeks maybe we have spoken 6 times. There was a hoover attempt in the very beginning but I told him to go away and there hasn’t been another one. Today, I was seriously thinking about telling the narc off and then I saw this post. Thank you again. You saved me from making a mistake.

    1. Hi Leigh

      I am in your shoes with a workplace narc , please don’t tell him off esp in a work environment it could back fire on you .
      It is tricky to navigate in the workplace as a smear campaign could destroy your career so tread carefully.
      If he is a narc a smear campaign to protect his own ass would not be beneath him .
      Stay here and do all HG says.

      1. Agreed and even better you should obtain the Assistance Package ‘How To Handle A Narcissist At Work’

        1. Yes HG I am at my wits end so I am going to consult with you later on my situation .
          I feel like I’m damned no matter what I do ,huge evidence of a vicious narc and I’m sick of it and really don’t know what to do in this tricky workplace without getting severely burned.Its a very tough one HG as the main boss adores the vicious narc and her nose is permanently up his ass.

          Will be touch thanks HG


        2. I would love to obtain assistance but it’s not easy for me. Thia isnt even a real name and I made an email just for this. I do have another question though. One of the things that was contentious between us is that I would want him to say good morning to me especially after weekends or returning from vacations. Almost always he would avoid and ignore me. I have pass his office to get my mail and now that its over, he is always there and always says good morning. He has shown no other interest for 11 weeks now. Why continue to screw with my head.

          1. Hello Leigh, I need more information so that I can provide you with a full answer. I need to know if this person is a narcissist, if so, what your position in the fuel matrix is, what the nature of the entanglement is (romantic, social or work), your relative positions at work, where you are in the dynamic and therefore I suggest you organise an email consultation with me and I will be then placed in the best position to help you.

          2. Leigh, I understand that it could be problematic to make charges to your credit card as most entanglements with narcissists include controlling the finances. I would suggest buying a prepaid card with cash and linking that card to your fake name/email address PayPal.

            I’ve also wondered if HG could use a pseudonym for his pseudonym to make the charges appear more ordinary. We have a customer that is a gentleman’s club. The official name of the business is related to golf however, ie credit card charges show on the statement as a golf supply outlet. Tricky!

      2. I was the DE DLS and we are both in powerful positions. Neither one of us would risk losing our positions or our families.

        1. I wish I could do a consult with you. I can’t risk my spouse finding out by seeing the payment. I believe he is a Mid Range Victim Narcissist and I was the DE DLS. He courted me for two years and I finally gave in. It lasted another 18 months after that. The whole time it was a tumultuous ride to say the least. He ended it abruptly 11 weeks ago. Your blog has helped me immensely. Thank you.

          1. I know there is always a way to consult with you. I just don’t know if it’s worth trying to figure out the narcissist’s behavior. I have moments of weakness sometimes. For the most part, I’m glad its over. I made a terrible mistake and don’t want to hurt my spouse or my children because of my wrongdoings. You’ve been a great help though.

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