Zero Impact
Zero Impact.
This is the final state that you, as someone who has entangled with one of our kind has to aim for. This is what you ought to achieve in order to secure your freedom from our kind and you should make this your aim when embarking on your recovery and escape from us.
There is no denying that we have a significant effect on the lives of those we ensnare. Whether our victims are social, business, work, the provision of a service, familial and most of all romantic, the consequences of being ensnared one of our kind rarely pass without making a mark of some kind. With numerous victims they do not realise who they are ensnared with and suffer no real ill-effects from this dynamic. Their loyalty and periodic interaction with us means that devaluation does not occur and instead they find themselves entertained by us, recipients of our largesse, donees of our considerable abilities in certain fields.
Of more significant prominence are those people who find that they have been entangled with our kind and the list of effects on those people are wide-ranging and non-exhaustive. From seeing their self-worth eroded, their finances implode, their self-confidence shattered, their physical and mental health damaged, their relationships with other people removed or dented, their capability to engage in critical judgement impaired, the loss of their home, the loss of a job and much more besides the consequence of our targeting of that person – most often in a romantic dynamic – is substantial and wide-reaching. This person mourns the loss of the illusion they were granted for that oh too short period. They fear the re-appearance of our kind. They nurse wounds – both physical and psychological – arising from the abuse they sustained. They are anxious, lonely, nervous and apprehensive. They see our kind all around them. They are wary of engaging with people as a whole and cannot countenance ever becoming involved with another person romantically again.
Some individuals are robust and make better progress as they come out of the other side of their involvement with us. Other people struggle to make any headway at all and indeed all too often become plunged back into the turmoil of the Formal Relationship with us once again, seeing it as the only way to alleviate (if not permanently remove) the pain for a period of time.
Untangling yourself from our grip is a three stage process:-
- Understand. You need to know what it is you are dealing with. You need to understand why we do as we do and why we behave as we do with you. You need to understand what made you a target and what continues to make you a target for our kind. Understanding removes fear, it removes anxiety and it removes paralysis. The acquisition of knowledge – the right knowledge – is the foundation stone on which your escape and recovery has to be built.
- Counter. Once you know what you are dealing with, you recognise how we operate and you understand why, you can then apply this knowledge to counter us. For many this is the route of no contact. The ultimate way to escape our clutches. For others, for various reasons, no contact cannot be achieved and instead you need to evade, counter and minimise the effect of our manipulations on the occasions when you have to continue to interact with us.
- Zero Impact. Once you understand and counter you will then be in a position to ensure that we have zero impact on you. This does not mean you have nothing to do with us (that is part of the counter stage as mentioned above). Zero Impact means that whether you have no contact or whether there is some contact, you end up in a position whereby we no longer have any effect on you.
What does Zero Impact look like?
Zero Impact is not being numb. There are those who are traumatised by their experience with us that they in effect are left in a state of numbness. This is one of the reasons we dis-engage from you. If you can no longer function you are useless to us. You do not provide fuel, you have no character traits of use to us and your residual benefits either reduce or disappear altogether. Numbness does not last forever and once you begin to function again, subject to other considerations, we will be waiting in the wings to swoop once again and continue your torment. Numbness is a temporary but unwanted reprieve, since you are not just numb to us, but to other things also.
Zero Impact is whereby you are unaffected by us. There is no sense of anguish at the mention of our name. You are not perturbed by the prospect of attending a place where we may be also. You feel no anger, no shame, no pain or no longing for us. Your mind set is altered so that you do not experience the negative, you do not identify the worst that can happen or focus on the likely misery you will experience. All of the bad, the bane and the awful which came with our toxic touch is removed, banished and most of all kept at bay. You don that plate armour and no matter what we try to do and no matter what you have experienced in the past, the corrosive effect of our engagement with you will become nullified.
Zero Impact is not shutting yourself down. Zero Impact is not hiding away. Zero Impact is the creation of a state of being whereby knowing how we operate, think and do, you remain ahead of us, beyond our reach in terms of having any consequence for you. Knowing what we think, say and do in order to perpetuate our impact on you means that I am in prime position to explain to you how you are able to address this and turn the situation to your advantage. I know how we aim to continue to impact on you. I know what we need to do and how it is done so that our ill-effects live on. It is not a case of you becoming an automaton, but instead allowing you to remain the person that you are or the person you have recovered back to and bolting-on the armour of Zero Impact which will allow you to progress, to thrive and to be protected.
This is not healing. As I have explained, I am not a healer and there are plenty of others you may turn to if you identify a need to heal from what you have experienced. This is something entirely different. It is not about changing what you are but by adopting that suit of armour to repel our effects, consequences and impact. Zero Impact means shedding the toxic coating we layered you with and replacing it with an impervious shield which will preserve and protect.
That is Zero Impact and allying that with Understanding and Countering, you will achieve freedom. I know how to cause confusion. I know how to cause paralysis. I know how to create long-lasting consequence and by the same token I am able to explain to you how you avoid all of these.
How do you achieve Zero Impact?
That information is on its way.
74 thoughts on “Zero Impact”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Super good article. I look forward to the continuation of this topic.
I’m going to try this when the “silent treatment ” is over tomorrow or Monday, if I remain in contact at all.
Super good!!
Yes!! HG! Yes!!
This is what I want!!
I don’t want to change. I love who I was before this. Always laughing! Always smiling! Always full to the brim and overflowing with everything good and bright and happy! Everyone around me would light up too and I LOVED who I was.
I used to bounce out of bed, singing and dancing around while I waited for my coffee to boil, looking out the window and being, just in awe of all the shades of green I could see. I would hear the birds singing and understood their songs of joy! Vibrations just radiated out of me. Even my silly narc would seem in awe of me sometimes. And sometimes not 😉
But I didn’t care, because I was in love with the whole world.
Loved work!! Loved everything! Loved driving home from work, with the windows down and singing all the way home. Who cares about what the people in the others cars must have thought! Not me! I just hoped it inspired a little extra happiness in them too.
My nickname at work was Sparkles, because a resident told me that my eyes light up like a kid on Christmas day, all day long and every time I smiled.
One resident said it, and the next one overheard and then the next table overheard and then it was just a thing. Not Amanda anymore, but Sparkles.
Before I knew it, some of our staff members would introduce me to new residents as Sparkles.
How I miss her!!!
Now, I wake up, hit the snooze button 5 times. Wishing it was bed time again already. Drag myself up. Wait for my coffee with the blinds pulled down. Go to work. Go though the motions until clock off.
Then I drive the long drive home, listening to music that makes me cry for the pain that I can feel from my residents and my own and thof andwhat I enhave inflicted onto my family and then I wipe away the tears and walk into my home pretending to be normal for them, when I am anything but normal anymore.
Then the emotions are too intense and I lay in bed and it starts to physically hurt. My stomach twists and cramps and the pain can last for days on end. I can’t sleep at night and when I do, it’s only for 2 or 3 hours. My head thumps in pain around the clock and it won’t stop.
Now I can no longer bear to look at myself, all I see is emptiness. So I cut off my long hair as I don’t want to see myself anymore. What has happened to me? I pretend to the world around me that everything is fine and it is not fine.
Then I hear the purr….that purr….”You are not my Amanda today” and I could just smash every mirror that I see.
But I can still feel sparks of myself somewhere deep down. And sometimes, now and then, when I laugh along, it is actually genuine again and sometimes I know that my eyes are sparking again, not often, but it is starting to happen again. More and more every day.
And then I think his name. God damn him! And I am rendered…as you say HG… Paralyzed. Immediately it hits me like a baseball bat and I crumple to the floor and scream and cry and I wish I had never been born.
HOW did he do this?
How did this mother f*cker do this to me, all under the guise of being so wickedly charming?
I am f*cking furious at the injustice and the robbery of my own self!!!
Because I don’t feel like my own self anymore. I feel like “his” own self. And I hate him!! I hate him!
And now that I know that he will never leave me be, that eventually he will come back. What will happen then??? Will I ignore him and be strong or will I fall to his feet and beg for him. I am scared to find out and I don’t think I want to find out.
So YES!! I need this. NOT to change my core. I miss my core. I love it and I need it back. Not now and then! But always!!
And I DO want this monster OUT OUT OUT OF MY HEAD for good!!
I want to feel nothing when I hear his name or think his name or feel certain that I can hear his voice calling to me. I want this connection f*cking eradicated!!
Then you need Zero Impact Assistance Package.
I do! Thanks HG.
You sound awesome amanda ! Hope you get back to feeling like you’re yourself soon, as the world needs your light.
That’s a nice thing to say empath007. Thank you 🤗
It is a catch 22.
It is extraordinary embarrassing for me (the example at work) but then, you see how such a small thing can cause almost everyone it the room to lift up and start chatting away happily and the air in the whole room turns from gloomy and quiet to bright and chatty.
It’s like an atmosphere change.
But it causes me to become clumsy, embarrassed and awkward. My face will flush and won’t stop and then it’s all too much and I almost feel like I need to leave the room.
In the case of being introduced to new residents, it is so different. There is no crowd so the embarrassment is replaced with complete happiness because a new resident has been taken from their home, their family and their own life, and they arrive feeling withdrawn, confused and have a sense of abandonment. Accepting end of life is a hard thing to watch people experience.
But! When they get told my “name”, they get curious and ask about it and a conversation starts! Momentarily, they aren’t sad or forgotten and they get an “inside joke” and their new home doesn’t seem so cold and unknown anymore. Right off the bat, their uncertainly changes in a slight way.
For the better! And that is what I adore!!!! They get a sense that we are like a little family and we all get to be with each other. That they are NOT alone. There are things that matter SO much more than “stuff” and people forget that so often.
A quiet room turned to carefree chatter!
A lonely person gets a sense of comradery.
And the world’s a brighter place!
Happiness is so contagious! And it’s the best part of every day.
A moment of kindness is so easy and it gets caught by one person and then the next and the next and that makes a better world for everyone.
Why can’t people just embrace each other and lift each other up?
What has gone so wrong with this world?
And the injustice of it, is soul crushing.
Kindness is free! Easy! And the most precious gift we can all give to each other!
Why oh why, don’t cruel people (and narcs) understand that collectively we can make a better place? This divide and conquer rubbish is tearing everything apart at the seams and it’s appalling.
I know that there cannot be positive without negative, but it shouldn’t be like it is. It just shouldn’t.
And the light is slowly coming back empath007, a little more every day.
I know I will get back there, it is the “everpresence”
(excellent description, by the way, HG) that is tearing me apart.
Once I get rid of that! It’s all sunshine and kittens again!!
Ooooh kittens!! 😘
Aha! It is still there!
…..Er …for this minute, anyway! Hope it starts to stay a little longer soon!
Xoxo
Hi HG, I have a question regarding Zero Impact. Is it achievable for a Geyser Empath as well? I have strong Geyser tendencies which, coupled with being a SE, cause me quite a few problems, especially when dealing with narcissists.
I cannot stop myself from issuing challenge fuel when provoked, insulted, annoyed, disrespected, told what to do, etc…
The reaction that is triggered inside of me is almost impossible to stop. I feel the adrenaline rush and then I only have two choices: I either explode or implode (that’s what it feels like to me). I got so angry once that my nose and my mouth started to bleed so profusely I had to be taken to hospital. Narc must have loved it. Haha.
Also, I get hurt easily and it shows. I hate it. HATE IT. And do you know how long it takes me to get back to ‘normal’? Hours..
I don’t want narcs to have this kind of power over me. I will do anything I can to stop this.
And if you can’t help me with this HG, no one can.
1. Yes.
2. You exercise power of yourself through Zero Impact.
Thanks for the quick reply HG. Zero Impact assistance package?
Indeed.
OK, this will be my next month present to myself then.
I will be in touch soon. Thanks HG.
Jolly good.
I am almost on the brink of ZERO IMPACT I believe and let me explain why.
I see and now understand MY part in that whole mess and I own that. I now know better!
I see and now understand exactly what IT (narc) is and IT will never change but simply move on to another.
I know exactly the traits (my traits) he wanted and got for some time but ultimately they are MINE for always and forever – I am WHOLE.
I cannot honestly say I wish anything, one way or the other, towards IT. There were good times then the bad…that is all I am willing to give.
Most importantly, to me, is the fact I have my self respect and self worth intact hence the past will remain in the past.
Thank you HG for all your work and time! YOU are the reason for my healing!HUGS!!!
You are welcome.
HG,
Few days ago, after year and half of no contact I “accidentally” met Narc ( actually I think that he find out where I am working, because he was standing near my office) I looked at him and pass by without any words. In one moment i heard behind me that he said “is it possible that you even don’t want to say hi”? I was calm and entered to store.
Did I do it well ? and What is the best way to act in this situation?
Thanks
Well done. The best way was how you did it.
I am close to zero impact. How do I know? A few months ago I went on great vacation and I planned to take some superb photos to flaunt it on social media so he could see it and think how great I am without him, how healed and happy. Old me! A girl he was trying to destroy is back and stronger than ever!
And what happened next?
Well… I took some really great photos. But months have passed and I still haven’t posted them anywhere… because I am too busy, too lazy, I lost the motivation to hurt/impress/provoke him. I guess I no longer care and don’t need to do that.
JustEmpath
That’s a good indicator. The photos should exist only as a reminder of your enjoyment of the vacation and not be tainted by him in any way.
Oh, JustEmpath, GOOD FOR YOU!!!! You have provided hope to some of us who are trudging along until that day comes for us. Thank you! x
Yesterday, I had a meeting with my first husband (he had a big problem and asked me to help him) and we talked for several hours.
Aside of his problem, we discussed a topic about “indifference” and he said it hurts him as hell when he faces it. Of course, as usual, he accused me of “not giving a damn about him”, and I said: “I’m sitting with you right now, giving you my time and attention, right? Right? Be consistent with your accusations next time”.
Also, he said he did “some research” about NPD (he was officially diagnosed many years ago, but he never gave any attention to that matter) and found some “NPD-traitor” on the internet, that explains to women how to TORTURE men with NPD and the “indifference” is the one of the methods do that.
Although the “indifference topic” was never the part of this blog (moreover, the word “indifference” was never welcomed here), I became curious and scrolled down recent timeline posts and found the “Zero impact” promo-article.
This. This is the article my dear first husband was furious about.
This topic is really important for many reasons and I was amazed that you, dear Tudor, raised it. It is not your usual style, you know.
I call the “zero impact” as a “bening indifference” and I agree, that it is a MINDSET.
In most cases (including mine), it is a congenital trait. No matter what was done to you, you really don’t keep any grudges and move on easily. It doesn’t mean that abuse was pleasant and harmless. No. You just experienced it, learned from it and found a way to stop and prevent it in the future. Some people call it resilience and, probably, they are right.
The process of “benign indifference” isn’t based on denial, rationalization or other “repressive” coping mechanisms. You just really, internally, don’t give any damn about that person anymore. You really feel nothing.
But, this process is based on a “healthy detachment”. You don’t let people in completely, you don’t attach to them completely, and when they or you want to go away, you just say: “No problem”. And you really, internally, mean it.
It is really wrong to keep people next to you against their will (even to keep them next to you in your own mind). They are free to go away, if they want it. So do you.
Independence plays a key part in a “healthy detachment”. You have to BE or BECOME a self-sufficient person. To become your own mother, father, friend, soulmate, housekeeper, boredom-healer, money provider, financial adviser, attorney, etc. You don’t have to sit and wait, that someone will come and give you everything. This is a first step to codependency.
Of course, the human beings can’t live alone completely and, in that case, they have to ask for help. Nothing wrong with it, but it has to be done in a healthy way, especially when the emotional or financial matters are involved. You have to take no more, than you give. Balance.
The big irony is that the “zero impact” means a lot rather to Narcs, than to their victims. Everything impacts the Narcs deeply. What do you think their “hoovers” mean? Why do they come back “for more”? If you didn’t have any impact on them, they would be nowhere to be seen then.
The Narcs are the most codependent people alive and the “zero impact” is something they will never achieve without really hard self-work and external professional help. That’s what I call “a personal freedom” – to be independent and self-sufficient on all levels. That’s exactly what the therapists have to teach their clients in the first place, no matter whether they are NPD or their victims. We all are in the same boat.
The “zero impact” mindset can be learned by using “Do I really like EVERYTHING about him/her?” question. Ask it and give an honest answer. If you don’t like something (abusive behavior, especially), he/she is not the “right person” for you.
No matter how badly you like other aspects of his/her personality, you feel a certain discomfort around him/her and that’s mean you have to go. That person won’t change, so your feelings of discomfort around him will remain the same no matter what. Letting him/her go, you really lose NOTHING. Instead, you gain something more important and really invaluable. Time.
The time to introspect yourself. The time to “fix” your vulnerabilities. The time to become a self-sufficient person. The time to do what you really like. The time to find the “right person”.
The “zero impact” is a really important and life-saving topic and I hope you, dear Tudor, will give it a life and proper attention on your blog. Everyone will benefit from it – your readers and you yourself (and I don’t mean the monetary aspect here). It is a set point to get the free independent and content life.
P.S. To “went my spleen” was…interesting”. Lol.
“the word “indifference” was never welcomed here”
I’m not sure about this. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but at least that’s how I understood all this GOSO and No Contact stuff – just get to a point where the N no longer means anything to you, you no longer care about her/him. I think this has been discussed before, even though this is the first time I found and read this blog entry about Zero Contact.
Also, there are other advocates out there for “Grey Rock”. This is a sort of indifference technique, and might be what your Nx was talking about, but I’m sure HG has something else in mind, because he has articles demonstrating why Grey Rock is not effective.
I really liked your comment, Noname. Thank you!
Any other ideas on how to get to Zero Impact are welcomed. Personally, I intend to give this a lot of thought and I’ll come back here and post if anything crosses my mind…
Noname, what you say tends to be some of the perspective I have on relationships, but I somewhat feel some things should be nuanced….
The people I’ve cared about the most I’ve held with dignity and I’ve never tried to own. I might see someone else try to own them, but I can’t do that, I can’t objectify like that, I’m mostly incapable. That has been repeated. I am capable of equal, genuine love and have proven it out. I am intelligent about it and I self-reflect, etc..I adapt my behavior if I see it is hurtful, provided the person has empathy and they respond to things in a normal way. The only time this changes is when a person’s responses are not normal and take on aspects of control and fuel generation rather than the empathic responses that I would naturally expect based on my own consideration for others, which is extensive and complex and genuine. I can sense when a behavior is born of narcissism and I react negatively. Empaths I don’t tend to take issue with, very rarely if ever, and there is simply never conflict. I am not controlling, only expressive. Smooth sailing. Mistakes, miscommunications, lapses, are easy to deal with, this is a non-issue. Deal and move on, that’s it, no grudges as you say. I respect men who are like this very much also.
When I have interacted with an NPD person, my ability to do that gets bastardized. I live in freedom to some extent, I don’t have the desire to control that narcissists do. I’ve tried to figure out why I’ve had both experiences, where I can love freely and well without attempting to control and being able to grow further into expressing myself (it’s supposed to take some time) and the other, where I end up in a dysfunctional dynamic where I am forced to argue or to leave (and I do, I leave). In my mind, it comes back to the NPD person.
I have mentioned before I think I am drawn to men who pursue and I theorize it increases the likelihood the person is N if they pursue. I think that is great information! Something to be aware of. I also think I could not well see the difference in the two types of people, those with the right intentions and those who falsely believe their intentions are right. Another factor is attraction and I think for a lot of people who have empathy and attract the attention of the N type, the N’s DO REALLY WANT your character traits, including freedom of love and choice and HG has said that also, whether they know this or not (usually not).
But the point is for the empath, I think a healthy relationship is not only attainable, but we have some understanding of it and certainly an innate capability that the N does not have. They will always have to latch on and hold the person there, via any means, even negative. The shaming is a means of control and binding. It is awful. They cannot let go and they are unaware of it, the negatives get all projected. And sometimes our empathic response is to ease that discord, which is beautiful thing- to try to heal it or fix it but it holds us in place. I have experienced the joy of an empathic person several times in my life. I am already capable, I just need to cut the cord and get to “zero impact” with those that are unsalveagable and to be able to tell the difference sooner. I truly feel the ability is already there. It is mostly love and empathy that stops those things in my opinion, which is the ongoing frustration of the empath. You WANT to do something but you CAN’T. Acceptance.
Actually I think I can do this.
Just not with her yet.
I noticed myself being able to completely become feeling-less.
I’ve been doing this since adolescence, I think, towards my parents. I don’t think they are narcissists, but they were colder and, well, that’s the way it was…
It was Noname’s comment that this is a congenital trait that got me thinking more about it.
How this manifests:
It happens during face to face, one to one discussions.
I become extremely calm. I think I need to be relatively calm previously, somehow prepared. I cannot just enter this state on my will, but I think it is possible though.
I do not feel much afterwards, there is no anger or love, there is no fear or hurt, nothing. I don’t feel any power sensation either (this is why I think this is not narcissism inside me doing it). Whatever feeling surfaces inside me (some do), I can acknowledge it and push it back easily.
I try not to hurt but I do this logically, not guided by empathy. I also state what seems logic to me, and this might hurt the other sometimes, no matter how hard I try to explain it.
I can also become slightly amused here and there, and I try to convey my point of why I think it is amusing to the other (well, the other sometimes does not agree).
I can be very obnoxious during this state, I refuse to discuss certain matters. This is when I can catch myself even manipulating (only recently, since reading this blog, previously I was not aware of it) and so I also try to avoid it as much as possible.
Lately I am also very aware of the other trying to manipulate, and I state it.
Because of this, I have doubts about myself not being a narcissist.
There is just the fact that I don’t enjoy it which makes me believe I’m not one.
Yes, it is interesting to see myself reacting like this, but otherwise I derive no pleasure from doing it.
Sometimes this happens during an argument with close people, sometimes it happens while listening to somebody relating me a very hurtful personal story. It does not happen very often.
It’s a temporary lack of empathy. I still see the distress or anger or tears or hurtful words, I do not become completely unaware, but I do not take it inside me, I let it brush over and it does not affect me at all.
I don’t have remorse afterwards. It just goes away shortly after the discussion is over, everything back to normal.
I don’t know what it is.
Abe Moline,
Your description of your internal machinery is interesting.
You aren’t a Narc for sure, so don’t worry )))
What I see in you is this: your nature has a stable core setting, but it pretty unbalanced. Since your doubts about who you are. You sound as someone who is really really tired and stressed. You need a rest.
Also, “clean” your surroundings. Take a “mop” and get rid of people and things you don’t like, value or respect and never permit them in your life again. Protect your boundaries and values. Don’t permit people hurt you and don’t hurt them back without a really good reason. In that case, you’ll reach your internal balance and that’s is exactly where the “zero impact” lives.
“No contact”, “Gray Rock”, “GOSO” are very helpful things, but they are external (so, less effective).
The “Indifference”, “Zero impact”, on the contrary, are internal things and they are very very powerful.
You can go “No contact” without “Zero impact”, but it wouldn’t be a “real deal”. The “infection” will remain inside of you, waiting for its time.
But, if you reach “Zero impact”, you’ll be truly healed and it wouldn’t matter whether you have contacts with your Narcs or not. Yes, they will find your attitude hurtful, but it is not your problem. You can’t control their disturbed internal world and you don’t even need to do that. You never were a cause of their “disease”, so you aren’t obliged to deal with it.
If you want to help them, do it. But do it on your own terms, not theirs. If they don’t like those, they know where the door is.
Good luck to you, Abe.
Noname,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I might be a bit stressed and tired, it is true that it’s already months now since I discovered what she (my Nx) is and I’ve been constantly reading, learning and analyzing. Much (very much) of my time has been filled with this.
I’m not sure I am “really really” tired, but I am.
I’m starting to feel fed up with all this information, but this Zero Impact is like the Holy Grail… I have to have it! 🙂
Once I get it, I’m done with all this, for a while at least. I’ll take a break.
I’ve already got rid of some people, not many.
Some I can’t completely cut off, I just avoid.
Some are in the process of being discarded, I can’t wait to see how I’ll feel once it’s done.
I have also found others being really worthy, and I have tried to strengthen my relationship with them.
It is a big slow change that happens inside and outside. It might get on the nerves of those close to me, but I have to do it. I keep asking them for a little more patience and so far they’ve been patient…
But this change is starting to show now, and I think they feel it, and they started regaining their confidence in me.
She is still a big issue to me, and to stop this I believe I have to expose myself to her, face to face. I can’t get over this without validating what I feel towards her, how I can handle her.
I’ve done this today, not my intention (she appeared unexpectedly). But I knew I had to do it sooner or later.
I avoided interacting directly with her, but I was in her proximity for quite a while.
She’s not that attractive (to me) anymore, I don’t find her beautiful like I did. I don’t find her jokes as funny as before. I’m just not much into her anymore.
I was anxious at the beginning, but then the feeling eased up, I became lighter, even amused at some point. But I was always attentive, analyzing. It’s not completely natural yet.
She also left me alone though, did not talk to me, mostly ignored me too. I’m grateful for that.
I might have given her some fuel, but I don’t care about that, I needed an assessment of the situation.
So, yes, I’m doing well, it was a good experience, and the timing was right too (meaning I don’t think it’s too early, I could deal with this).
Now I need to take another long break from her. It was interesting, but I think it is still somewhat dangerous. I have to let this settle before trying it again.
If she keeps appearing, I’ll stop attending those places.
I also have some questions for you, in case you want to answer:
1. Is this Zero Impact, once achieved, working instantly against all narcs? Or you have to get it for each of them?
2. Don’t want to intrude, but why are you here?
Abe Moline,
I apologize for the late reply.
“Is this Zero Impact, once achieved, working instantly against all narcs? Or you have to get it for each of them?”.
It works against ALL people in your life, because it is a mindset.
“Don’t want to intrude, but why are you here?”
No problem. I was a relatively regular reader here in 2017-2018. To “know the narcissists” and “how to heal from them” weren’t my goals. No need. I studied English (I’m not a native speaker), reading and analyzing various posts and comments here and on the other blogs. I wrote comments (and “letter to the narcissist”) here, telling my own life story and expressing some observations about NPD matter.
Your comment and the experience I had yesterday made me realize something. Which is, well, kind of obvious and logical, it is easy to understand but much more complicated to really accept and internalize.
In this respect, it is a very similar idea to that the narcissist is a “bad” and sick person, who cannot be fixed, who’ll never be good for us. One understands this, but accepting is much harder.
What I’m talking about: Whatever we feel is not narc’s doing. Well, maybe, while we are still entangled, but once we go No Contact, it’s obvious it no longer has anything to do with the N.
We “like” to blame the narc for our anxiety, inadequacy, sadness, longing and so forth.
But it’s not the narc. How can it be? We’re no longer in contact with them, we don’t see them, they’re no longer communicating with us, so it can’t be!
I guess the narc also enjoys and nurtures this attitude. They are happy to know they are still affecting us. But it’s not them. It’s us.
We have a problem by feeling this way, and we need to address it, and it’s not the narc. No matter how much we analyze N’s behavior, how much we think about the N, it’s not going to solve anything. Admit (really admit!) it’s not them, and you get closer to the truth, to healing and to Zero Impact.
Because you then suddenly see where you need to invest your work, your thoughts, everything.
Or, at least, that’s what I like to think… 🙂
Thank you, Noname.
Somehow, what you said opened this gate for me. I hope I’ll be able to cross its threshold.
Abe Moline,
BRAVO!
“Whatever we feel is not narc’s doing”.
Yes!
“We “like” to blame the narc for our anxiety, inadequacy, sadness, longing and so forth. But it’s not the narc”.
Yes!
“We have a problem by feeling this way, and we need to address it, and it’s not the narc”.
Yes!
“No matter how much we analyze N’s behavior, how much we think about the N, it’s not going to solve anything. Admit (really admit!) it’s not them, and you get closer to the truth, to healing and to Zero Impact”.
Yes!
“Because you then suddenly see where you need to invest your work, your thoughts, everything”.
Yes!
But. It is a very unpopular opinion, because people don’t like to hear they have “some problems to be addressed”. It is much easier to think: “It is the Narc who I should blame for everything”. No. Not for everything. It is 50/50.
The Narc (and any other person) is a TRIGGER and your reaction to that trigger shows you the TRUTH about yourself.
Admit it as it is without shame and depressive self-judgement or self-blaming. ALL people have “issues” and you are not an exclusion. But, not all people have the balls to admit and address them.
You, definitely, have those balls and I was really impressed reading your comment. Pure strength, that started to spread its wings. And if you use your strength wisely, you’ll become really balanced, content, harmonious and happy person.
Continue to introspect yourself. It is a really interesting and fascinating process. You will like it. And you will like yourself after that.
Thank you, Noname.
I’m still working on this, but you really gave me hope that I’m on the right path.
Great comment, Noname. Thank you.
Noname: a very logical proposal, but of course emotional thinking, when it is able to get a stronghold over us, often before we know it has commandeered our logical thinking, almost guffaws at your statement. I think under estimating the power of emotional thinking, and our often hidden and instinctive deep longings that are more susceptible to our emotional thinking, that is lying in wait, so to speak, to have its day in the sun, is more important to understand than our logical thinking. Emotional thinking is what we want to do. And, what often leads us astray. Logic is what we need to do…Yawn. Herein lies the battle. One is more pleasant and exciting to desire, than the other, and therefore more dangerous. That dangerous one, is the powerful emotional thinking. After the perfect storm that the emotional thinking brings about, one can easily look over the devastation, the morning after, so to speak, and pick through the debris to see what is salvageable and what is broken beyond repair, and where ground zero is located, and what ignited the disaster, but during the eye of the storm with everything flying haphazardly around and spinning out of control, brought about by the emotional thinking that was able to get a stronghold over our logical thinking?…..not so much. We do learn afterwards, when the smoke clears, to always be resisting, in the future, as HG Tudor teaches. To keep a very watchful eye on our dangerous emotional thinking by respecting its power and subtlety and guile. And to be even more mindful, to not be fooled again by our emotional thinking, as another reader discussed on here, the other day.
Noname: If Zero Impact were land masses, it would be a molehill to climb for an empath and Mt Kilimanjaro to climb for a Narcissist. A vast difference in time and difficulty and tools and training and understanding and self awareness to reach the top of that journey. There practically is no comparison. We all can, or at least do try to make some behavioral modification so as to not be incarcerated especially, which is a removal of freedom that most people do not desire. But, the strength of Narcissism is so powerful, that even therapists that are not extremely cautious and knowledgeable about the disorder will also fall under its sway, and not see the disorder in their client. And sadly, most people with this disorder do not even know they have a problem in the first place, so it is a double bind. And society in general barely knows this disorder exists, or rarely discusses it. The DSM is scrambling to catch up due to pressure placed upon it from the field. And many mental practitioners are not experts in the disorder. Also, many relationship practitioners often give ( those that seek help to solve the dilemma of having to deal unknowingly with a Narcissist) the exact opposite and erroneous information on how to proceed. And much harm is being done. The mental professionals that do debate the disorder find themselves not disagreeing on many important aspects and treatments of the disorder. That is completely not good. And after all of this, not everything needs to be changed about a Narcissist, in the first place. It all depends. And it is a master mental practitioner that will be able to have the discernment to help a narcissist more than hurt them, in normalizing a Narcissist in a beneficial way, because the Narcissism has been in practice on behalf of the Narcissist, longer than many mental practitioners have studied the disorder. So the Narcissism is a world class expert in a field where many mental practitioners are novices in training, in comparison. And because normal people are failing like never before in their interpersonal relationships as well, and can not in most cases be a incentivising role model to a Narcissist, it will be tough going to move forward and advance any therapy that benefits the Narcissist, by holding normality up as a role model, if a Narcissistic does happen to find themselves in the presence of a mental practitioner, for NPD, in the first place. What a Narcissist would desire, from my understanding, is less dependency on the fuel that they need from other people. It is a substitution for this dependency on fuel that needs to be found. And most mental practitioners have not even begun to look for a realistic and alleviating substitution for this fuel. Thus, essentially, these mental practitioners are similar to a doctor telling an asthmatic to not depend so much on oxygen, then checking the asthmatic out of care, and sending the asthmatic home with that unhelpful and bizarre message, showing a remarkably low therapeutic understanding of what is needed. Very problematic.
The mental professionals that do debate the disorder find themselves not agreeing* on many important aspects and treatments of the disorder. That is completely not good.
Countering.. yes the dance of toxic love.. #Drunken Kung Fu fighting
Im very interested in this upcoming article HG. It has been said the best offense is a good defense, but we emotional thinkers lack skills in going on the offensive. We take a punch, absorb the blows. We forget chin down, arms up. we’re so drunk in love…
I have achieved Zero Impact on my MRE sister even though I didn’t know that she was pathological. It was harder for me to achieve Zero Impact on my stepdaughters because my husband loves them and his love for them makes me care about them whether in a positive way or whether I’m unhappy with how they treat him. Even when I was showing them indifference, it was just acting because inside me was anger even though I was pretending to be cool and wouldn’t let them see their effect on me. Although now that I think they might be pathological, I have finally completely got to the Zero Impact stage. The most challenging for me to achieve Zero Impact is my matrinarc. It takes a lot of mental discipline and conscious management of my thoughts and perspective. On days that I lacked that discipline, I fail and my ET spikes and get frustrated and mad. It is so much easier to control my ET on other people than my mom. I think her being a Lower Lesser makes it even more difficult for my ET to not spike because at least if she was a Mid-Ranger she would take care of herself better and would have a cleaner and decent home and would not wear terrible clothes and do all kinds of things that almost decrease her humanity to the level of just an animal. It is hard to not care about her.
Thanx HG. This one was good and like the rest I’ll be waiting.
Would be nice to attend places, family outings, etc. and not feel like I’m having to second guess or preempt the Ns behaviour in order to keep my mouth closed and not get myself in trouble. 🥴
Don’t hold off toooo long!
I have just reached this stage with my ex Greater Narc. It’s fabulous! I can see everything he is trying to do and it doesn’t touch me anymore. It’s driving him nuts. He’ll soon say he’s discarded me, but I’ve already gone! Ha!!!
Lucky you, and congratulations! I look forward to getting there whereas I’m still owned and branded by him…I’m so obsessed and he knows it. 🙂
An excellent article and well worth linking in your header under “prime articles” to remind us what the prime aim should be. Would also make a good shirt in my opinion. And a mug. And a poster. Perhaps a rug? Countless possibilities.
I anticipate and await the unveiling of Zero Impact items also.
HG, I anxiously await your promised information on achieving Zero Impact. I’m not hopeless, I’m simply a work in progress. This is like attending online university. I love and appreciate all your lessons. Thank you!
Most narcissist claim to be the victims. So, everybody should judge himself about this issue and make a will to change, being honest and truthfull to himself in order to face reality… Remember that most of narc will blame everybody else but themself, and that there is no such a thing as i was wrong in a narcissist world. Cause, everybody is wrong but a narcissit, and everybody is a bad person but them. At least that is the way they think. They belive that the entire world should be rule by people like them, cause they think they are the smartes ones, the ones with greatest ideas, and with greater inteligency. So,everybody should look up to them for wisdom and advise. How could they be wrong about any issue when they are smarter then everybody else? That is why they are allways blaming somebody else, because they know for sure that they can never be wrong or make any mistakes. How could they? Also, they think they are the best people with better fellings, knowledge, and kindness, so, they consider them self as better human beings.. They truly belive it!. Even if most of them dispise justice, truth, and the rule of law. Man laws, and gods laws. Ignorance about morals,ethics, justice and truth issues is a trait in all of them. They twist truth, bend laws, and change reality acording to what is better for themself at that moment. Most of them are just evil people with no love for humanity but for themself. We all must analize ourself and change. Love truth, justice,and humanity, not things nor power.
I need one of those narcissist at work consults myself. Not obsessing, just having communication issues. Always ends in me being frustrated and losing my cool and looking like a crazy bitch while he smells like a rose. I know I’m doing it all wrong, but he twists me in knots! Every. Time. Can I just choke him out HG?
No that would not be advisable. However, a How To Handle The Narcissist at work is highly advisable so all will be good.
HG, is the How to Handle The Narcissist at Work package written material or audio?
Audio
Smoke signal.
Audio MB.
I must have it then.
I agree.
I am starting to obsess over someone I really shouldn’t be obsessing over.
Time to consult with HG..
Ready and waiting (but don’t keep me waiting!)
I will not!! About to have a meeting with the guy. Wish me luck…
Good luck EmP
“How do you achieve Zero Impact?”
Well, yeah, that was my next question… 🙂
Any ETA on this, HG?
No ETA, Abe.
I thought I’m almost over this, kind of achieved the Zero Impact.
No contact is easy now, I don’t crave her anymore, I am not angry with her anymore, I see through a lot of the past bullshit (hers, but also mine), I can think about moments with her in a logical analytical manner (for example when I read the blog and compare with what happened in our relationship).
Well, not quite…
Yesterday I heard people mentioning her (could also have been deliberate, because it was not a discussion which I necessarily had to be involved in).
Anxiety and anger and curiosity popped up immediately. I did not react on the outside, but I realized it’s not over yet.
This is why we need this HG…
I’m sure I’ll get there sometime, there is no doubt in me about that. But I assume it would be much faster and easier with some guidance.
Abe M
It’s great that you were able to recognize that. It’s one thing to think you are at the immune stage, and another when you are actually faced with them or exposed to information about them.
This is how I feel with my oldest son’s father, whom at the very least is a toxic, abusive person towards me.. (i do not know if he can be considered a narcissist).. All that he says and anything he does has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever at all.. And you’re right, HG, I am not numb.. It’s not a numbing feeling.. It is literally the epitome of indifference.. And once I reach that place with my daughter’s father, who is a mid-range narcissist for sure, I will know that I have finally triumphed and beat emotional thinking as it concerns him once and for all..
I’m at zero impact currently. It took me two weeks to figure out that the guy who was live bombing me was a sociopath. We worked together and he approached me out of nowhere. He flirted with me, gave me his cell w out me asking for it. Eventually we went to lunch and two weeks in, I was on to him. I did a background check, checked his social media, and Bam…he was using an alias name. At this point, I decided to play the game. I fucked with him at gave him hints like, “you met your match my friend”. I knew his real identity and everything about him. It was fun…I wish I could publish our text messages, they’re entertaining and perhaps educational. He started devaluating me after 8 weeks and I gave him LOADS of negative fuel …I told him he needed to step up his game and that the love bombing was unrealistic and that he should maybe take lessons from me…blah blah….he was FURIOUS. I was laughing!I then apologized and told him I was wrong to forgive me…he actually did forgive me and we met the next day, all was beautiful then BAM I straight up asked him if he was narcissist sociopath….he again became furious…he told me he wouldn’t answer such a disrespectful question and that I shouldn’t ask him such questions at night time. I told him that I was just curious because he possessed traits. He proceeded to break up with me and told me he was under so much stress that I was sweet one day and hated him the next. He said his exes hurt him but I was the most hateful. He then made up a big story about having to take care of his niece for a few months (this was in March) and that he wouldn’t be around. He avoided me at work for a few days, then showed up at my desk like nothing happened. He was testing me and I also acted like nothing happened. I was mirroring him. We made up and texted…I knew he was lying about his niece, I went along with it and never said anything. I figured he either had someone else or wanted to avoid me because I was on to him. He ghosted me, and stopped texting me. So I told him I might be pregnant, that’s when he threw a fit and told me I was unbelievable and that he wanted some peace and normalcy. He became so irritated with everything I would say. I figured he was in the golden period w someone else…not sure. We didn’t talk for about a two months, I went no contact. He checked on me at work and saw I was laughing and having a good time. I think he was like wtf!
I left the company in May and I sent him an email telling him I was leaving. He was very nice to me and said he wanted to be friends. I actually apologized for my behavior as a test…he said that I was fun and that I kept him on his toes, and that I was crazy in a good way. Were emailing back and forth. I be honest, I like him as a friend…maybe with sexual benefits. He sent me an email asking me if I would rewrite his resume. I responded Yes and asked if everything was okay. He then responded saying he hasn’t been himself that all he does is work, goes home and reads or watches a movie then goes to bed. That he wants to crawl into a corner and just sleep and not think. I am trying to figure out his next move…I think he is just saying this because he is either still golden period w someone else or he is still feeling cold towards me for my behavior. It’s hard to tell. I know he has major trust issues and is paranoid. He’s definitely a sociopath….help!!
I actually do feel bad for him. And part of me wants to be friends with him because he does need love. He once said to me that everyone leaves and he has no one because that’s what people do around him. Is it bad that I actually feel bad for him? He didn’t cause me harm because I caught on…he keeps saying that I am very strong.
It is natural to feel bad for a narcissist, it is your empathic traits of compassion and guilt. You are not at Zero Impact.
You’re right. I’ve become an obsessed fool. I feel bad that I completely lost control of myself and showered him with praise and gifts. I miss him and I know he’s playing games now but I kind of like it. Ugh
I have become an obsessed fool. I feel.so.bad that I have showered him with praise and gifts. I miss him and would love to see him again.
I think I actually see a lot of ET in your comment.
You want to be “friends with benefits”, you wonder whether he’s now with someone else in the golden period, you seem to enjoy this game, you feel bad for him and so on.
Please apply some logic to this situation, or he’ll swallow you feathers and all.
Take care!
Thank you, this is hard for me. I don’t know when he’s telling the truth. But I know he’s playing games.
Since he’s a narcissist you apply no contact and then you need not concern yourself with whether he is telling the truth or not.
I am a strong woman, I have no idea what this guy did to me. I’m in LA, work in the entertainment industry and in my 20 years of living here (the heart of narc world), I’ve never experienced this type of relationship. I will say that as a creative person, I am a bit intrigued but also freaked out that I’ve given him my power. He owns me right now. I want ownership of myself but….I’d love one more night with him. How do I achieve this?
There is no guarantee of achieving this and nor should you aim to achieve this.
Omg thank you so much HG this is what I want ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
HG—there is absolutely no one like you. Thank you. I needed to read this and had not seen it before.
Yes , please do continue with ZERO IMPACT , BUT ALSO HOW TO BREAK YOUR KIND THE FUCK DOWN AND LEAVE YOU LOOKING THE FOOL AND SHOWN FOR WHAT YOU ARE .
Yes please educate us!
I need this info. I always felt trapped and anxious when faced with my ex …during visitation right.
I think the best thing you can do is NC and don’t break NC either because everytime you interact with them you are giving them some kind of fuel whether that be positive or negative.
What a coincidence! I just listened to this one on YT today. Missing the voice.
HG, thank you so much! You have really whet my appetite with this article. Looking forward to the forthcoming information provided by you as I am so ready to achieve Zero Impact. Will there be gold stars awarded?