Big Little Lies Poll : Bonnie Carlson

BONNIE CARLSON

 

Bonnie Carlson. Where does she fit? Vote below and argue your case in the comments.

Big Little Lies : What is Bonnie Carlson?

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205 Comments

  1. I voted Standard Empath.
    From what I have seen so far, she does not seem to be a CoD, Contagion or SE.

  2. I wonder if Bonnie is a standard SAVIOUR. I had said magnet but not only did she put and end to Perry, she wanted to end her mom’s pain / life too.
    Could this be the tamed down standard version to MMM’s super saviour cape?

    1. Aaaaaaand she stepped in and took Abby to get the infamous birth control. I’m now thinking saviour cadre

  3. HG I cannot find the poll where you asked us for topics we don’t still grasp about the narcissist dynamic

    May I pls request
    -further into on The Contagion
    -Info on the “martyr” category of empath
    -further info on when someone is a narcissist, but not a narcissistic sociopath

    Thank you and I think I’ve read all your posts, e-books and watched all your YouTube videos but If i might’ve missed something on these topics I’d defin love a link

      1. Ok I’ll scan thru Chained again. Might make more sense to me now with the whole Celeste thing going.

  4. Ok, I think I’ve decided. She is a Contagion because she cannot live in a lie because it feels bad. She feels the energy difference.

  5. FYC, I think you are right, I believe I remember her saying something about travelling. That’s too bad, she might enjoy the show dissection.

  6. After watching the new episode I could make an argument that she is Contagion bc there’s a lot of stuff going on with her that I don’t understand.

    She feels and has flashbacks through touch and seems to be the most physically effected by emotions. The protective walls make sense in that case. Sorry…I know nothing but if I had to pick a Contagion of the group it might be her.

  7. Quote of the Day: [ `Mary Louise is swimming around like a shark so all the narcissists and empaths better get their shit together real fast.`] ~~K

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath
      Ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh! Mary Louise is gonna mess up everyone! Narcissists, empaths, apaths, etc….no one is safe from her manipulations!

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath
          Ha ha ha…I was just thinking about Jaws yesterday (11 sightings of Whites off the coast of Cape Cod in 48 hours). Whenever Mary Louise makes an appearance they should play the Jaws theme.

      1. Yup pretty sure like other have said she’s a contagion.
        I can’t beleive I was so mistrusting of her to begin with.

        HG, I know the polls can only focus on schools but will you be telling us their cadre too?

  8. Series 2 episode 5:

    Her darkness has reason.
    I knew it. She wasn’t protected as a child, she felt abandoned and that I fucking relate to!
    She is beating herself up, she can’t talk to anyone, her walls are high because they have been her only protection! She’s hard to read, more so than the others but little by little she opens up. She’s deep, her emotions are bubbling under the surface, she let some of them out to her father, for once saying how she truly felt. It’s funny, how they always proclaim it was never quite how she remembered, she was protected, but not in the way she needed. Her dad diffused the situation.. they are both abusive in different ways!

    At the gathering, of them coming together to discuss celeste’s Court case.. I could see bonnie’s mind ticking over for the greater good, she knows there is a chance Celeste could lose her kids if Perry comes out in court. The burden of carrying this based on just that alone is enough to say stop. She hesitates outside the police station.. then janes boyfriend comes out??

    Contagion or super.. now I know she sensed Perry and celeste’s Fight that evening because she had been abused herself and saw the signs. Not sure if that’s a contagion or not.

    1. Really good analysis Presque Vu. Bonnie taking responsibility to turn herself in so that Celeste can keep her kids may indeed indicate a Super Empath trait. I honestly don’t know anymore what Bonnie is. Everyone is presenting great arguments. I just can’t wait to read what HG thinks.

  9. To me she is contagion emphat. She is a spiritual person, peace maker, think she feels pain of others hence her reaction at the shool quiz, then when she does something that does not agree with her it eats her from inside she tries to avoid others , friends and family and hide in her own recluse world.

  10. I haven’t voted yet because I am not sure what Bonnie is. For me, she is on the empathic side: peace keeper, yoga teacher with an alternative, ecological side. I don’t think she is a CoD, but I must say I did not pay a lot of attention to this character. The only interesting thing I found she did during the first season was to stop Ed’s inappropriate comment about how he likes transpiration in women and to push Perry down the stairs. I have been thinking if this act may be indicative of something but right now I think anybody could have done this as a desperate reflex to save someone… But now that I write about it, I think many people would have probably run to get some help to stop Perry. I don’t know. So I tend to think she is a Standard Empath, maybe a Super empath, or maybe a normal. I don’t know. I don’t have enough information to categorize her.

  11. Season 2: episode 4
    Bonnie knows. She senses narcs.
    The soundtrack is so good!
    I feel tame impala could easily be part of the soundtrack and film.

    https://youtu.be/vpbblMR_jUo

    Perry’s mum clocked her, she clocked perry’s Mum. The look they shared.

    I have a feeling bonnie has done something like this before, she’s been involved in darkness.
    I can’t put my finger on it.

    Now I have to wait until Sky drops the next episode… back to homeland season 1 episode 6!

  12. Dearest HG: After one episode one, I said Bonnie was Narcissistic, Lesser Greater (somatic). My case: A.) She has that whole Bohemian look thing going on. That look takes a lot of work and a lot of decisions are constantly being made and there is a constant battle to not feel injured by others on how one is presenting oneself, and their is constant challenge fuel, so it is not for the faint of heart. B.) She looks mixed race and she has the other race partner, that I feel hints at identity rebellion or an identity crisis against something or other. She is aware that she is different. Awareness of some sort, is what Greaters have.

    Four Episodes in and I still stand my ground: Now, I can add, to continue my case after viewing three more episodes (from above continuing): C.) She works in the body fitness world, on a local level. Big surprise. She keeps her body almost pre-pubescent. She knows that being small appeals to the protective tendencies of many men, and appearing like a child-woman is very titillating as well, as she looks young, but sexually legal. D.) She danced in a way to garner male physical interest. E.) Dancing like that Triangulated her husband to create jealousy. F.) Also, dancing like that warns her husband to stay in line, because he can easily be replaced. Dancing like that, in addition, shows to her what other man could be a fuel source to triangulate or to move on with. Although her eyes were closed while she danced, her Narcissism was taking everything in for future reference, because the fitness field is a known low paying field and most women are supported in substance by parents, husbands and boyfriends and sponsors in that field, and if not, they will retire into poverty. She has to stay alert, unless she lands a whale, like the yoga instructor that landed Alec Baldwin. And (female Narcissists like her often like to say that other women do not like them: 1. this complaint works to plant a seed in men that she is better than other women and she is implying that women see this. 2. It is also a pity play. 3. The narcissistic female is blind to the fact that her own actions are off-putting and threatening to other women). G.) She takes sex as a casual activity, and had no reservations in taking the teen to Planned Parenthood, known for birth control, prophylactics and abortions, although there is much more to sexual activity than the use of the body. But, Bonnie, sees the body as a most important tool in the toolkit that must be available at all times. She also cancels the teens college prep classes: Again, it is all about the body. H.) She violates the Boundary of the Mother by not even telling the mother about Planned Parenthood, and is triangulating the mother with the daughter. I.) She triangulates the mother with her ex-husband and with other women in town by also voting against the mother`s alphabet play, when she, Bonnie, could have recused herself from voting. J.) She is truly manipulative, and is willing to allow the daughter to move in. She manipulates her Husband against his ex-wife, and brings in the daughter to become a Turncoat Lieutenant against the mother. This also hurts Witherspoon and her husband. When Bonnie`s husband suggests to Bonnie that they can move away from it all and leave Monterey, Bonnie triangulates their own child between them by saying their little girl likes it here. She manipulates Ed by agreeing to be the peacekeeper at the dinner that she orchestrates that no one is a fan of (the games are always being played). So, they bond in a subtle way. He tells her he likes how women look when they perspire and Bonnie was standing there, glowing. Again, triangulation against both sides. Bonnie offers to remove her disapproval vote for the play, and of course Witherspoon declines. We all know that a a gift from a Narc can never be repaid. Yet, Bonnie can always say she offered. And appear good spirited about it all. Bonnie triangulates the teen with the teen`s baby sister. Young children watch all of this, and the little sister will probably dream of moving in with Bonnie, as well, whenever she is chastised at home. This is my case regarding Bonnie, after just 4 episodes, as an aware Lesser Greater Narcissist.

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath
      Oh no, I might have to tell mommypino that Bonnie is a narcissist after all! Ha ha ha…you have a compelling argument.

  13. Not seen enough yet. Completed S1. She’s someone I’d definitely keep my eye on in real life though until I knew her better.

    There is definitely some desire to be in control. All her behaviours are subtle and natural yet charismatic. Jury definitely put on this one.

  14. ***Spoiler for the season 1 finale***…i take back what i said about bonnie i think shes a contagion. I keep going back and forth lol
    She sensed something was going on with celeste and perry and reacted. Theres definitely more to her than just standard empath. Id say a mix of contagion and saviour.
    Her hubby nathan is very much a midranger!! Even at eds funeral no emotion on his face.

  15. Bonnie…she seems a savior but lacks that empathetic passion and depth to step in and help. Idk she seems too chill empathetically. She does seem a somewhat voice of reason at times. I think of her as a standard empath. I wouldnt say contagion bc she doesnt allow other’s situations to consume her emotions. Shes more a standard empath to me. I am envious how relaxed she is and never allows stress to take over her life. Id love to be more like her! More zen 😄

  16. Bonnie is a contagion.
    It’s clear to see. She sensed and saw the danger that night with perry. She became a narc without hesitation and pushed him to his death when all other women were being hit by him. She sensed him. Her actions were intuitive.
    The guilt that follows is not guilt. It’s acceptance, fighting against her empathic traits. She knows she did the right thing at the time. That moment has drained her. She can read people. She saw the abuse that night when a crowd missed it.
    She is the most interesting to me.

  17. I didn’t vote yet but I think Bonnie may be a Standard Empath.

    Bonnie didn’t realize that Madeline was involved in the production of: Avenue Q and she signed a petition to cease production and told Madeline about it. This could indicate empathy, letting M know that she signed it (responsibility for her actions) and a heads up.

    Bonnie says: None of us see things as they are; we see things as we are. (this indicates insight)

    1. “None of us see things as they are; we see things as we are.” So true! In fact at first I thought that she was being passive aggressive when she informed Madeline that she signed the petition since I was observing Bonnie with hawk eyes and was trying to read anything that might indicate narcissism or extraction of fuel. But further observations made me re-interpret that as just being genuinely nice and considerate.

      1. MommyPino and MB
        S2: E3

        At the beach, Bonnie tells Jane: “I’m such a hypocrite, Nathan has no idea who I am.”

        Immediately, I thought of: THE PORTENTOUS REMARKS OF THE NARCISSIST”

          1. KellyD
            Thank you for that, you are helping me think it through. When Bonnie made that statement, I thought: WTF is that supposed to mean! (S2:E3)

            I think Bonnie is a Standard Empath and I hope tonight’s show sheds more light on her character. Gordon is a mystery, too.

          1. Alexissmith2016
            Just wait until Perry’s mother, Mary Louise, shows up! She’s hideous!

  18. Mr. Tudor,

    I think Monterey, California, is best enjoyed from afar. I would imagine that its beauty is magnified from the splendor of being an entire ocean away. How lovely Britain must be! Where would she be without you?

      1. I agree PSE! It’s beautiful there. It’s a very special place. It would be so fun to see IG pictures of HG and SM in Monterey.

        1. HAHAHAHA yeah mr ultra upper greater elite !! Fly the new (and everlasting) ocean of fuel out to Monterey for a night and get us some BLL scenery pics!! ;)

  19. Ok I’ve rewatched S1
    I’ve voted :

    Standard Empath (magnet cadre)

    Bonnie -calm. Collected. Doesn’t take shit from Nathan, but doesn’t get upset w him either. Coy, playful. Stays cool normally. Peacemaker. Inner light. Centered in self.
    Picked up on situation between Celeste & Perry at the finale party – without any info.
    Jumped in when she determined action was needed, to defend the other women.
    Strong defender of justice and truth , & communication -all around.
    I strongly related to her character. If she confesses in s2 I wouldn’t be surprised as I would too. Faith in the Universe depends on Truth. When it. Ones to the big things, you have to be brave and hold the truth up , come what may.

    I would vote a self-actualized , magnet standard Empath

    (Like me lol)

    If I see anything to change my vote in s2 you know I’ll be posting but I feel safe voting
    Standard empath (magnet)

    1. Also I don’t really grasp the Contagion empath. I have Contagion traits obv but I don’t understand fully what a Contagion empath is as a school in itself.
      All I know is if I was feeling what others feel , as I do now , but it was 24/7 no holds barred I’d be in the loony bin not running a yoga class. So..yeah. Going by that, I voted what I did

      1. WokeAF

        Imagine you feelings of another by 1000x times and no cut of switch, no need to visual or hear “cues” which trigger ones empathy, compassion and sympathy.
        From what I have read in comments she isn’t a Contagion Empath I have yet to watch season one to give my opinion based on the evidence Of her behaviors and reactions/responses.

  20. I tried to watch the first episode last night, but it wasn’t available on Netflix and I don’t have Sky grrrr! but just found out I can watch on Amazon Prime – phew! So I’ll get stuck in tonight. I’m very excited for this.

    It has made me think of some (not all) of the dramas/ sitcoms I’ve watched over the years HG, and the writers/directors seem to create roles which truly reflect that of an N with unbelievable precision. Would that mean that it has been written/directed by a greater? or are there others out there who are just incredibly perceptive about personalities?

    1. Some will be Greaters, others will have witnessed the behaviours around them (possible victims also), read about the behaviours and pulled it altogether without realising what it actually is.

      1. Ah very interesting. Thank you HG. Goodness, whether greater/ or victim, the ability to do that is just mindblowing really.

      2. Even though I’ve been on your blog for so long, it still amazes me every single day that one person (you) can just know so much.

        I’ve gained a lot of knowledge and I am pretty relaxed into the whole thing, still so much I don’t know, but my day to day interactions with others, sometimes it still feels pretty surreal knowing what I know and how easy it is to pick up on behaviors now. It was also just a bit of a fumble in the dark beforehand.

        1. Alexis: your quote: [ `I`’ve gained a lot of knowledge and I am pretty relaxed into the whole thing, still so much I don’t know, but my day to day interactions with others, sometimes it still feels pretty surreal knowing what I know and how easy it is to pick up on behaviors now. It was also just a bit of a fumble in the dark beforehand`] Alexis, I could have written your quote exactly like it is. I feel the same way. I will also add, that I had stray pieces of puzzles floating around in my life, and now I know where those pieces fit in the jigsaw puzzle of some of my life experiences.

          1. It really is quite something PSE isn’t it!

            I’m largely accepting that those around me could never be expected to see what we all do, but I have the odd moment (pretty rare now thank goodness), when I feel like banging my head off a wall in frustration lol. A bit unfair really, because I would never have seen it until I’d lived it and then learned for myself.

            It makes me understand somewhat why some of these mid-rangers who believe they’re greaters have an urge to let people know how cunning and evil they are. It’s like they’re simply bursting to tell people all the time and they try to keep a lid on it because they know that it is not a good idea for others to know their evil ways but at the same time they’re so proud of how ‘clever’ and manipulative they perceive themselves to be and they want the whole world to recognise their ‘cleverness’. But we all know they’re pretty dumb!

  21. Gosh this would be a lot easier if there was more material on the Contagion empath! I’m stuck between standard and Contagion. But I’m not into s2 yet. I’m a standard and I’m not sure I’d push a guy down the stairs. Maybe.

  22. Empath. Not Co-dependent, she seems to have perfectly clear identity boundaries with her spouse. I don’t feel there’s enough evidence to conclusively determine Standard, Super, or Contagion.

    Her capacity to explode and act in the face of injustice/threat to others suggests Super perhaps, but honestly as HG describes it, it seems to me there’s more to a Supernova than pushing someone down a flight of stairs in the heat of the moment. Seems to me any Empath might have done the same.

    Contagion could be argued on the basis of the loner/putting up walls quality. Could be a degree of self-isolation from being overwhelmed by the feelings of others. The stair-kill explosion could also be viewed as a reaction to a Contagion experience. Her reaction to the daughter’s plan to auction off her virginity is problematic, though. She seemed under-affected rather than over-affected.

    She’s not a Narc. She’s much too concerned with Truth and accountability. In addition she passed on endless opportunities to use the reactionary behavior of those around her to acquire fuel. Yes she has Somatic narcissistic qualities. Empaths can have those too as I understand it.

    Pending further evidence to confirm Super Empath or Contagion Empath, I’m inclined to stick with Standard Empath, as I believe HG’s indicated Super and Contagion are statistically less probable, and therefore I’d tend to hold that to a higher standard of evidence.

  23. I have Hula and Netflix, but I cannot find this movie. I looked it up on Youtube, but there are only previews for it. Is it in ‘merica, yet?

    1. It’s in HBO. I got a 7 day free HBO trial from Amazon Prime channel to watch this. 😊

        1. We don’t have HBO but when I come back from the Philippines we will rent it for one month to catch up on GOT. We love GOT!!!
          So nice to see you back in the blog MB!!

          1. MB, that was awkward English. I meant to say it is never bad to enjoy things far too much!

    2. Tamara: Type in Google: [How to watch Big Little Lies in (wherever you live) ]. That is what I did. Then check all the way you can watch it.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath,

        Thank you; I will try this.

        Sorry for late response. WordPress does not notify me each time I get a reply, so I miss many of them which saddens me because then people think I am not appreciative of their words, and I am. 😞

    1. No, those are cadres. We are addressing schools (if the individual is chosen as narcissist or empath).

      1. Dearest HG: I think I will need to be, at end, in a remedial class or prep class for this school and cadre chapter or arena of Narcissism. Or hire some expensive perp tutor, I mean prep tutor. I wonder if perp tutor was a typo or `freudian` slip. lol. I was going to delete it, but decided it should stay, as I looked at it. Hahaha. For whatever reason, I find it all complex. Sigh. However, I will stumble forth. Sometimes, in these matters, one day it all just all clicks, as well.

      2. I see my mistake. I got ahead of the poll in my explanation.

        She isn’t the codependent main cast member due to her isolation and independence. She harshly rejects her husband and shuts down refusing to give him any emotion.

        I don’t know enough about the Contagion Empath to comment…. 🥕🐎.

  24. P.S. I am just on Episode 1 season 1. Should I wait until I see all the episodes on season one before I answer polls?

    1. It is entirely upto you but as with all matters, the more evidence you have to hand, the greater the prospects of an accurate analysis.

  25. Dearest HG: I say, Somatic Narcissist. HG, I have decided to post my replies on your polls on the viewings, before reading those of other readers first. Because, I believe that I would easily be persuaded by others in this particular arena, since I am new to even hearing about Narcissism. This is fun!

      1. My case: She has that whole Bohemian look thing going on. That look takes a lot of work and a lot of decisions are constantly being made and there is a constant battle to not feel injured by others on how one is presenting oneself, and their is constant challenge fuel, so it is not for the faint of heart. She looks mixed race and she has the other race partner, that I feel hints at identity rebellion or an identity crisis against something or other.

        1. School: I say she is a lower greater Narcissist, because she is only on a local level.

        1. Dearest HG: I once lived in Monterey for a year. I cried twice. The first time I cried there, it was tears of Joy: I awakened one morning and it was actually raining. The first time it rained in about 8 months or so. The second time I cried, it was tears of Misery: I had to leave and I did not want to leave that beautiful town.

          1. It is a beautiful place. I have driven over the bridge which appears in the opening credits.

          2. I vote Zoe Kravitz. Who can name her parents? Anyone?

            Anyway, Monterey–Steinbeck Country! The US sucks big time right now (I am American so I can say this) but it has birthed phenomenal 20th Cent. writers and poets.

            Something since has died though. Now I feel it is just selfishness, Trump, fireworks and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

            Happy 4th Everyone. I have this tug of war with myself where I feel I should have been born in France or early 20th Cent US, but not this era.

          1. PSE, those are cadres, not schools.

            Schools: greater, mid, lesser, super, contagion, standard, CoD

            (I think? Please someone correct me)

            Cadres: somatic, cerebral, victim, magnet, carrier, savior, geyser, martyr, and is doormat one also?

            HG is saying we are voting on school’s only here, but people are discussing the cadres I see also, as part of the comments.

          2. You can discuss the cadres also if you wish, but there is no voting on those yet (it would mean too many combinations and make the poll unwieldy).

    1. PSE, I can understand why you think that she’s a narc. I was torn between she’s a Mid-Ranger or a Co-D but opted for the Co-D because of her guilt. Taking her stepdaughter to Planned Parenthood I thought was a major encroachment which a Standard or a Super Empath would both be more conscientious or at least cognizant of such boundary violation. I would be incredibly livid if someone takes my daughter to Planned Parenthood without asking for my permission whether she’s a teacher, a stepmom or whoever the hell she thinks she is. When she informed Reese that she signed the petition to stop the play I was wondering what was that all about? Was she trying to get fuel? Or is she an empath who didn’t want to offend Reese so she’s telling Reese that she’s going to ask them to remove her name but that makes me think she’s a Co-D because where does she really stand? I think that a Standard or a Super Empath would be more unapologetic that if she really believed that the play is not good then she would be standing by that belief and hope that Reese will not take it personally if she finds out. I am curious to find out more from the second season.

      1. MommyPino: I find her apologizing all over the place. I am not impressed. I also think she is a Narc because of the splitting of herself growing up. I said days ago, that I thought she was casted as a character of mixed race for the series, for whatever reason for the series, and it turns out to be true, I see now in Season 2. And like I said, in part, she is rebelling the norm, in the way she dresses, her hair, her clothing, her demeanor, trying to force unnatural friendships, boundary issues, and the yoga, which is still banned in many schools churches and some health clubs, etc. in the United States, especially when you leave the major cities, as pagan eastern mysticism religion, and going against Judea Christian norms, even though yoga is still pushing its way mainstream, decade by decade. She was even teaching some insomnia class and when questioned, she said something like, it was a great cash cow. So she has no problems with rejecting established norms, because she is her own God. And thus she can dip and dabble in whatever she pleases, and is tolerant of whatever and most things. As long as she can still be God, like she can be with her husband, who is not the brightest bulb on the string-lights. And as a service worker in fitness, in the local community, where the service workers at the lower levels are permitted to look `avant garde,` she can there too be her own God.` She is aware that she is different, even her mother asks her why she hangs out in this community where she is viewed as the other (I do not agree with her mother in this, because Bonnie is hanging out with people of the race of her father, and that is largely normal). Although she dresses like her mother, she seems to have been pushed into Narcissism by her mother. So, her dress style could be a survival style to appease her mother, and perhaps the people in the neighborhood where she was raised. If she were raised mostly around her mother`s people, that is. And at this point in her life, the way she dresses and styles herself is a habit and provides positive and negative fuel and brings attention to herself. However, her intimate partner is the same race as her father, and thus I believe it is her mother that caused the splitting. Especially if there is a pattern of her dating men of her father`s race, as opposed to all out rejecting them, but we have no info. about this. She may just date whomever allows her to be her own God. But I think she feels traumatized by her mother who may be a narcissist. I sense she is also physically rebellious against the norms of the body somehow, including the Planned Parenthood incident and the Virginity Auction debacle, and I believe she is somatic, although we are not talking about that part, yet in these viewings, but in her case, she just screams it to me, so I mention it in passing. In season 2 she discusses with her father, in a quick outburst, the fury of her mother that her father did not sufficiently protect her from. And Narcissism as I understand it, starts in childhood and if not stifled by the mid to late teen years, will most likely become the controlling survival mechanism of a person. Narcissism is lured by gossip and chaos, and she had no business following Celeste and Celeste`s husband around during that party. Why was she not focused on her own husband, I do not remember? He was there, I do know that. And when she saw the group fight, she was only thinking of the NOW and rushed in and pushed Perry to his death. Now, she has difficulty being her own God and has lost Control to the will of the women in the group. She is no `God` right now and so very low on fuel. Dragging herself around day by day. If HG says in the end that she is an Empath, I will not pack up my bags and leave town downtrodden. I may throw something. hahaha. HG does say these people are on a spectrum with their cadres moving in and out of the mix, so with bated breath, MommyPino, I can barely wait for his assessment of our Little Miss B. :)

  26. I am not yet practiced at typing others, but I’ll give it a stab. Bonnie is not a N (shows empathy and guilt). She is not a normal as she shows more significant empathy and is an IPPS of a N. She does not demonstrate CoD behaviors. So that leaves Super, Contagion or Standard.

    When Bonnie pushed Perry down the stairs, it could have been due to feeling others overwhelming emotions (contagion trait), combined with her need for justice (since she witnessed abuse in her childhood and learned the truth about Perry), so she acted on impulse. Yet in other circumstances, it does not appear she experiences others emotions more strongly than a standard or super empath, and she does not fit Twilights description of contagion, so I eliminated this option.

    Bonnie regrets killing Perry and lying about how it happened. Guilt and depression kick in. This demonstrates her moral compass and her struggle with how her actions were out of character. Since NA is a confirmed Super empath, when I imagine her pushing Perry down the stairs, I imagine: a) she would immediately recognize what Perry is, b) she would have no problem instinctively protecting others, c) she would not have guilt and may take a measure of satisfaction in eliminating an abuser. This does not fit Bonnie’s actions. Further, Bonnie does not seem very challenging to her own N and sniffles her responses at times. When I think of HG’s IG comment teasing about the SM making him walking the plank if he steps out of line, this does not jibe with Bonnies actions. So I eliminated Super.

    This leaves the Standard Empath. She qualifies for all other the traits: honesty, decency, stronger moral compass, good listener, kind, sensitive and sort of a zen empath with an undercurrent. So I chose Standard.

    It will be interesting to see what the real answer is and I look forward to reading others analysis. This is a great exercise for honing our skills. Thank you.

    1. Stifles not sniffles, auto correct strikes again😬.

      NA, I hope you take no offense. As you know, I stand with those who step up to protect others. You could have had some conflicting guilt if you were in that situation, but you would know you made the right decision in saving another life and would not become depressed as a result. But do tell if I am wrong.

      1. Hi FYC
        No offence taken and no depression anticipated. I have discussed previously that on 2 specific occasions I had increased opportunity and seriously considered ending StepN’s life. He was not even being abusive in one. I felt no concern about ending his life. The thing that stopped me was that I may be unsuccessful (he was formidable in size and trained to do damage), or that if I were, what would happen to the others.

        1. Hi NA, Thank you for your reply (I did not receive a notification). I am glad you did not kill him even though the world would be better without him, because it would not have changed the past and it would become a part of you in a way. You deserve to be entirely free from abuse and pain and if I could have helped you back then I would have. I am glad you are here with us, NA. You make a great difference in many lives because of who you are.

          1. To be perfectly clear, I would have gladly protected you as a child, not help off your worthless abuser. He is not deserving of one ounce of anyone’s energy.

          2. FYC
            Thank you, but you know a real friend would help hide the body. Hahaha.

          3. LOL, NA. I can’t abide by the stench and a real friend would not ask! Besides, you would have worked all that out before you made the hit.

          4. NarcAngel
            Ha ha ha…just in case, I know where my phone is and it’s charged.

          5. Oh god NA I’m so happy to see you here (I’m aka DEMBunny and before that W ).
            I was looking for your comments but haven’t seen u in the endless threads on BBL lately. I’m guessing you’re not analyzing bc you’d have it spot on and spoil the learning curve but I . Am . DYING out here haven’t seen a whole lot of OG activity that I can tell?
            Have you posted any reasons for your votes? On any of the polls? If so I’ve missed em and if so – what’s your take on Celeste?

          6. WokeAF
            I haven’t made any comments or cast any votes. I saw most of Season 1 (think I missed 1 episode) and could only remember parts. Don’t know if season 2 is available here but even if it was, I barely have time to keep up here on the blog. I don’t think I’d be good at this at all. I tend to group behaviours into Lessers and Mids (to my knowledge have never met a Greater) for narcs and even then I’m not sure on Upper Lesser vs Lower Mid etc. I have trouble with Empaths also. I do know in real life some diagnosed people (Narc, Co-d, Histrionic) but even then I wonder if the diagnosis is correct. I watch people over time because I think behaviours are cumulative in making any assessment. Isolated incidences can be just that and lead you astray (witness behavioural changes from episode to episode causing a change in people’s original assessments). I concentrate more on what I will and will not tolerate from a person regardless the label, but I have learned much here about identifying what the persistent behaviours indicate through HG allowing examples for instance. When I watch shows like BLL I tend to be amused by the behaviours and think more along the lines of how would I react to that rather than was it right or wrong. At first watch I announced out loud that Perry “had to go”, but then I recognized that Celeste was getting something out of that and wondered if she was actually a victim. I only knew her children were. If someone were to ask me about Celeste 2 yrs ago I would probably have said Co-D, but I now know my perception of Co-D may be akin to people thinking all narcs are like Trump – I realize I just don’t know enough about it. Everyone has given great points and I think this is a fun exercise, but I prefer to wait for HG’s forensics and then apply it to what I see (or will see) so that I am less confused. His analysis will be logical, with evidence, and devoid of emotion, of which the last is near impossible for us.

          7. NA, your comment about the BLL analysis makes sense to me. I keep changing my mind. Also I get too emotionally involved with the characters, so I can’t wait for HG to say. What really throws me is that the characters are fictional, so drama for the show equals character drama and I don’t think they can completely organically follow the actions of a real person, maybe multiple people or mostly what a person could be like. Still, it is very enjoyable. And the other part is I can’t go by “feeling” the character fully because it is an actor pretending, so I have to go for patterns and guesses and intentions.

            Still fun though, but a bit up and down like you say with changing my mind every episode. I want to know what HG thinks of the people more than anything.

          8. Your first paragraph is appropriate and I will be stating something similar when I provide my analysis. That stated the show does provide some excellent examples of various character types and all in one place so it is a useful exercise.

          9. NB, I agree that this show is fiction and therefore characters cannot follow the actions of a real person. I commented in another thread on how characters can change from one season to the other because the producers want to create surprise, or suspense or confusion so people keep watching. Also, direct contact is important for me to see if a person has NPD or not. I was skeptical at the beginning about this exercise and was not going to participate (also because I hadn’t seen the show), but then I thought it could be fun, and it actually is.

          10. Yeah Lou, I saw that comment. The people can only represent real *instinct* to an extent. And other factors, like with real people I think they can model from outside forces or upbringing without actually being NPD. And also if I have pms maybe i look NPD sometimes? I like how MMMs daughters keep asking about her gigantic periods.

          11. nunya biz
            Madeline uses her gigantic periods as a blame shift for her behaviour. She doesn’t understand why she behaves the way she does, or the reason why, so her period is a convenient excuse.

          12. K, I understand about blameshifting, I am still on the fence as to MMM. I was more commenting about the ability to organically represent mood shifts and instincts in fictional representations. And the humor, which I appreciate. Some of the things M and Nathan say are very funny to me, N or no.

          13. nunya biz
            It’s very possible that she could use her period to triangulate.
            I like Madeline and, although Nathan is a shit stirrer, he isn’t too bad either.

          14. I never used to blame shift (well not too much), but periods are an excellent way! although an N, I’m liking Madeline’s style!

          15. alexissmith2016
            Exactly!

            “Oh, I am so sorry that I bit your head off (metaphorically speaking), but I have my period, so you understand how it is for us women.”

            I like Madeline and Renata.

          16. Hmmm I kind of like them at a distance. But they would definitely only ‘cut it’ as an outer circle friend for me.

          17. I’ve honed my skills on this one where I need to K. The question is, could they remain a NISS of mine before they’re banished into the abyss. The answer to that depends on how useful they are to me. hahahahahaha (that wasn’t an evil laugh either)

          18. alexissmith2016
            Ha ha ha…you don’t have to banish them to the abyss, just shelve them! And you will always be adding new ones to your fuel matrix, as well.

          19. K, As you know, forever-in-seduction NISSs are as rare as unicorns. They either succumb or the narc gets tired of being denied and moves on to easier prey.

          20. Did somebody say unicorns?!?

            I stayed golden NISS and then SIPSS for 6 1/2 years total. Admittedly shelved at times, but nevertheless golden. Made it very difficult to go no contact to be honest. Even harder to keep it up. I don’t want the push, but I sure did enjoy the pull.

          21. Yes, but not forever. If you make it to forever golden, you win the unicorn and a lifetime supply of glitter!

          22. I wanted a virtual romp so bad last evening I could barely stand it. First time I’ve seriously considered breaking NC. Damn moon! I held strong though.

          23. Thank you FYC. Why did he have to be so damn good? I’ve never craved anything like I crave him. Addiction reared it’s ugly head, but it’s quashed again for now. I know the hit isn’t worth the heartache. “Logic defenses ON!”

          24. “Why did the rooster cross the road?” To get his much needed fuel.
            “Why did he have to do it so damn well?” So the chick would give up the fuel. Hehe.

            Logic defenses on indeed! Bravo.

    2. FYC,

      “Bonnie regrets killing Perry and lying about how it happened. Guilt and depression kick in. This demonstrates her moral compass and her struggle with how her actions were out of character. Since NA is a confirmed Super empath, when I imagine her pushing Perry down the stairs, I imagine: a) she would immediately recognize what Perry is, b) she would have no problem instinctively protecting others, c) she would not have guilt and may take a measure of satisfaction in eliminating an abuser.”

      I haven’t watched the show but I enjoyed your analysis of this character. Also, your assessment of the nature of guilt struck me…

      I found it interesting how you explain the effect of guilt and how each a Standard or Super Empath may process it.

      So, would you say that a Super Empath feels less guilt (due to higher narcissistic traits) than a Standard Empath – or just processes it differently?

      (Sorry HG if you wanted the discussion to stay directly on the characters themselves.)

      1. Not at all, any debate surrounding narcissism (which includes its victims) is encouraged.

      2. Thank you, HG and WC.

        WC, I did not think of it exactly like your description, but will try to examine it in that light: Do empaths experience different levels of guilt when all other factors are equal? I would say yes, based upon varying internal perceptions of values, self concept, sense of agency/personal responsibility, self esteem, degree of empathy and sense of justice.

        If a (non HG weaponized) CoD pushed Perry down the stairs, it would be more likely be due to pressure by or approval of their Co partner/significant influencer. Their CoD experience is so enmeshed, and boundaries so poorly constructed/defended, they would act not according to their own separate values, but to please another or to satisfy others expectations. They would likely experience intense core shame layered by guilt (as taking such a bold action would trigger core fears of being a bad person) resulting in significant self-flagellation and recrimination.

        If a Super empath pushed Perry down the stairs, it would be because the target offender clearly stepped outside the bounds of decency and justice and endangered another. The Super’s narcissistic traits would come to the fore supplying certainty of judgement and impetus to act in accordance with their clearly defined values and crossing of boundaries. Their actions would be swift and powerful. Their significant empathy for the victim would demand such action and override any empathy for the perpetrator. Post killing (note, not murder), due to their degree of certainty they would feel a stronger sense of serving justice and therefor guilt would be reduced. Due to a strong sense of self and self esteem, they would not be affected by the lies of core shame like the CoD.

        If a Standard empath pushed Perry down the stairs, it would be to save the life of the woman being chocked (come to her aide, versus the imperative to defend and seek justice with metaphorical sword drawn). The Standard’s empath’s strong sense of decency plays a part, just not to the degree of the Super. The Standard gives more leeway to a N and tries to understand and assist, so post killing (since they consider all sides), it would stand to reason that they might experience a greater degree of guilt that the N abuser is dead. The impetus to come to the aid of the victim would be even greater for the Standard Saviour.

        Again, I am not well practiced in this area, and am a sophomore student at best when it comes to assessing schools and cadres, but have made progress in the last few months after making a greater effort to apply HG’s descriptions. I welcome the opportunity to test what I have learned. These are my current impressions, but I learn daily thanks to many here, and will continue to pursue greater accuracy.

        Please do share your thoughts, WC. I appreciated your thought provoking question!

        1. FYC,

          “Again, I am not well practiced in this area, and am a sophomore student at best when it comes to assessing schools and cadres”

          For someone who considers themselves not practiced in this area – you certainly give a thorough and measured explanation of your analysis! And you seem to have a good grasp of the internal workings of different empaths. (I know that I don’t.)

          Thank-you for explaining how you feel each deals with guilt.

          I think my question arose from the fact that you said Bonnie’s “guilt and depression kicked in” and then later ruled out her as being a Super Empath because this school would “not feel guilt”. I guess that was key for me since it suggests that a Standard Empath would become overwhelmed by guilt and a Super would move past the guilt – or not have any.

           Your more expanded response explains better how you see each dealing with guilt.

          I guess it just never occurred to me that this might be the case…but it explains my existing huge feelings of guilt over some things and complete and utter lack of guilt over other things (I’m Standard with elements of Super).

          Your statement on Super Empaths taking action because “the target offender clearly stepped outside the bounds of decency and justice and endangered another” makes absolute sense now. A personal example: after escaping my abuser – out of a sense of decency – I allowed my narcissist back into our lives for a time. In my head, and heart, I was done but he was job searching at that point and he needed a base to get to the city/access the internet (plus, I needed child-care as I was the only one working – bear in mind I didn’t yet know he was a narcissist). So my concern for him, as a human being, allowed this last bit of sympathy and need to keep my job. But the instant he abused this generosity AND put me in a situation of needing emergency childcare (or suffer losing income by missing work and even potentially losing my job) my empathy vanished into thin air. I know when I shut him out of our lives (literally “shut out”; as he couldn’t access the security controlled building I was in without my permission) I no longer cared if he had food, a place to live or any money. I still don’t care and have no guilt, remorse or regrets over that decision. He absolutely had stepped past the boundaries of decency and actually had put us in danger because we were surviving on only my income at the time. I did not care when he came back… metaphorically knocking at the door..and asking to be let back into our lives…I didn’t care that he was cold or hungry…he was never let back into our lives again after that point.

          But other past decisions, or lack of a decisive decision…not so much; I agonize and beat myself up over them. 

          FYC, your explanation of guilt with regard to different Empaths really helped me understand my past actions, my reflections on them and why I can let some go, yet not be able to get over some others.

          1. I should have said “metaphorically AND LITERALLY knocking at the door.”

          2. Thank you, WC. I really do not know the manifestations of guilt for all empath schools, and maybe HG will shed some light on this with his answers. I only attempted to apply what I have read, observed and experienced. I have no idea if it was accurate and would not want to mislead or be inaccurate, so take it all with a grain of salt.

            WC, I am so sorry you had that experience with your ex. I am pleased your super traits came to the fore and shut that BS down for good. You are such a lovely person you deserve far, far better and I hope all is better by the day now.😘

    3. FYC

      I giggled with “pushing him down the stars due to knowing what he was and for justice.”

      I need to sit down and watch this show due to finding comments interesting and HG new teaching method fascinating.

      1. Hello Twilight, I laughed reading your reply. I would love to hear your analysis. Please do watch the show and enlighten us. Good to hear from you and hope all is well.

    4. FYC, I like your analysis. Regarding guilt, I aske HG before if Super Empaths have the least guilt among all of the schools and I believe he said something like guilt is manifested differently but not necessarily less guilt. I hope I remember it correctly.

      I would love to read the analyses of the more seasoned commenters like K, SMH, NA, WhoCares, Renarde, MB, NunyaBiz and Twilight. I want to gauge how far off or close I am lol.

      1. I forgot to add Foolme and Lou in the list of seasoned commenters! If there’s anyone else I forgot it’s not to exclude anyone. 💕

      2. Hi MP! I have not seen this show! I have no idea what anyone is talking about, but I am enjoying the analytical comments a lot.

        1. I recommend you watch it NB, if only to use your analytical skills that you have obtained here.