Why The Narcissist Wants You Dead

 

WHY THE NARCISSISTWANTS YOU.jpg

“I’m going to fucking kill you!”

“You’d better do it or you’re dead!”

“I wish you were dead!”

“You are going to die.”

You may well have heard such threats and declarations of intent from our kind. The savage Lesser who has erupted in a volcanic reaction of ignited fury who grabs the kitchen knife and thrusts it through the air towards his victim, the self-pitying Mid Ranger who in a tantrum of impotence and hatred expresses his wish that you were dead or the dread words delivered with the reptilian smile of the Greater ; each school has its own ways of issuing this threat.

Yet, is this just wishful thinking or a solid desire to see you dead? Are these words issued more for effect than the reality of murdering you, causing an ‘accident’ or hoping that some intervening act causes you to be wiped from this mortal coil?

The general position is that we do not actually want you dead in the sense of physically dead. There are notable exceptions, which we shall address below, but it is rare for those exceptions to occur. The fact is that numerous commentators believe that we want you dead and the truth is, we do not. That is another myth that is held about our kind, that it is our ultimate desire, our final expression of victory for us to kill you. It is largely incorrect and here is why :-

  1. A dead appliance is a useless appliance. Your purpose is threefold to us, whether you are a tertiary, secondary or primary source. You are to provide us with fuel, character traits and/or residual benefits and the more important the appliance in our fuel matrix, the more likely that you will provide all three and do so impressively. Accordingly, if you are providing us with the very things that we want and need it makes no sense at all to render you incapable of providing them. But, I hear you ask, what of the appliances that are no longer functioning in the way that we want? A valid question.

Firstly, when you stop functioning in terms of the provision of positive fuel (you do not provide enough/frequently enough/it runs stale) we switch to devaluation and even though we hate you and paint you black for your treachery in no longer fulfilling your specified role through the provision of positive fuel, you still have a role to play. You become the fountain of negative fuel.

Secondly, you still have a role to play with regard to the provision of character traits and residual benefits. You may be supporting us financially, taking care of us, running a household, caring for the children and other matters which not only benefit us day-to-day but support our all important façade.

Thirdly, you are required for the purposes of triangulation with our other appliances and maintaining the provision of fuel as we seek out your ultimate replacement.

Now you ask, what then when we choose to dis-engage, clearly we have no longer       any desire to interact with you at all, why not kill you then? These leads us on to the other reasons why we choose not to kill you.

2. Notwithstanding our contempt for rules, the law and regulations, the higher functioning of our kind are mindful of the adverse interference that comes from nosey law enforcement if we murder you. It brings unwanted scrutiny and the potential to fetter our right to do what we want and we are not so stupid as to act in a way that will blatantly jeopardise that.

3. We treat you as dead without the inconvenience of actually killing you. We effectively delete you when we concentrate on the new IPPS through the new golden period. Accordingly, by ignoring you, removing you from social media postings, blocking you, not answering your messages or calls, then we have ‘killed’ you and this provides us with a far more satisfactory outcome.

4. You are ‘kept alive’ for the inevitable hoover. Although wanting to see you, interact with you or indeed do anything with you at all is last on our list when we have dis-engaged from you, unconsciously there remains that advantage to be achieved by keeping you alive so we can hoover you for fuel (positive or negative) or achieve this as well as bring you back into the Formal Relationship to acquire the other aspects of the Prime Aims. Remember, there has been a considerable investment in you and whilst we ‘kill you’ by putting you from our minds during the golden period with the new IPPS, we will want to draw down on our investment in due course. Accordingly, there is no point physically killing you.

5. There are alternative methods where we can in effect murder you without the potential risk to liberty. The key ways that this is done are as follows :-

a. Character assassination – ( The Paranoia of Character Assassination )

b. Smearing – ( see Smear and Loathing )

c. Silent Treatments – ( The Smiling Assassin )  and ( 17 Salvos of Silence )

d. Devaluation as a whole

Thus whilst we do not physically kill you, we slay your character, your reputation, your self-worth, your sense of existence, your connection to us and still continue to draw fuel from you, something we could not do if you were physically dead.

5. Punishment. By you remaining alive, we are able to punish you. This asserts and maintains our sense of superiority, enables us to draw fuel and ensures that we feel a sense of achievement and retribution against you. It also means we can keep on punishing you, something that could not be done if we were to actually murder you.

6. By stating our intent or desire to kill you, this simple form of threat carries with it the ability to gain fuel from provoking a reaction from you, but also allows the establishment of superiority. It is a simple sentence but one which carries significant power with it. This low usage of energy with maximum impact appeals hugely to our kind and therefore it makes far more sense for us to THREATEN than to EXECUTE. Yes, in that moment we do want to kill you or see you dead because you have done something which has mortally offended us and therefore our reaction in uttering those words is entirely in accordance with a desire to kill but we do not actually do so (and ultimately we do not want to do so) because it goes against our fundamental needs.

Thus for all of these reasons whilst we may say we want you dead or that we want to kill you, the reality is we do not and we will not.

Thus this is the general rule, however, as with all rules, there are exceptions. What are the exceptions when the desire to kill is acted on?

  1. The loss of control through ignited fury. Whilst the ignition of fury can potentially result in any school of narcissist entering a frenzy whereby there is the commission of physical violence, it is the Lesser who is most likely to murder as a consequence of the loss of control. This does not mean that all Lessers will kill, but rather, of all the schools, when there is a serious loss of control resulting in the ignition of fury, then the Lesser will want to kill and can and does kill. The fuel arising from the act, as he stabs, bludgeons, throttles or beats will be significant but not enough to heal the wound that has resulted in the ignition of fury and the loss of control, meaning the murderous act continues until the victim lies dead. Therein the fuel halts from the deceased victim. The narcissist may gain fuel from the reaction of witnesses also but ultimately that burst of fuel has gone with the demise of the victim. The murdering Lesser may use the fact of his killing to gain fuel in the future but as of now, he has lost a major appliance (if for instance he has murdered his IPPS) and therefore he will face a fuel crisis if he does not achieve fuel from alternative sources.
  2. Going, going gone. There are circumstances where the narcissist recognises that the major fuel provider is ‘on the way out’ and thus the fuel is going to be lost anyway. This is not the situation where the appliance is escaping or leaving – our narcissistic perspective of you always belonging to us means that your escape, leaving or departure is not something that will happen because we control you and we will bring you back under our control through a Initial Grand Hoover or through Follow-Up Hoovers. Thus, if someone is about to escape, move away etc, this is not applicable. The situation of Going, Going, Gone applies to where the appliance is at risk of dying. There are two clear situations where this arises ; terminal injury or illness and suicide. In respect of terminal injury or illness, the narcissist knows that the fuel source will not be around for much longer and therefore ‘helping’ this person on their way would appeal to particular narcissists. There also has to be a benefit associated with such an act, namely doing it as an act of revenge for wounding, punishing for railing against the narcissist’s control and such like.

With regard to suicide, if the narcissist recognises that the victim is at a very low ebb and therefore is likely to end their own life and thus deprive (in one final act of defiance) the narcissist of fuel etc, the narcissist will encourage that individual to take their life and push them over the edge. This is rare, but accords with a desire on the part of the narcissist to punish and gain revenge. This punishment and revenge goes beyond that normally experienced and would be as a consequence of a major exposure and/or major wounding. Thus if an individual is in a position whereby suicidal ideation occurs, the narcissist is aware of this and senses that it is likely to occur, the narcissist, in accordance with his or her god-like view of themselves and the need to exact punishing revenge will pressure, cajole, encourage and manipulate to push the victim over the edge so that he or she commits suicide.

3.  Malice. A Greater Narcissist wants you dead. There is no Going, Going Gone scenario which would be harnessed by any of the schools of narcissists. In this instance the malicious and calculating Greater has determined that your death is required. Again, this is rare and the Greater will have evaluated that the loss of a useful appliance is offset by the need to dis-incentivise this individual. There will be no clumsy rage-filled Lesser bludgeoning, or pillow-smothering Mid-Ranger with the dying cancer-ridden parent. Here the Greater sees you as a problem, an obstacle which must be removed. Usually it will be because the Greater recognises that you have access to information which will cause him or her considerable difficulty or that you have the ability to create a significant exposure problem. The Greater will not go down this route lightly, instead he or she will look to manipulate the situation in an alternative manner, but ultimately the Greater’s malicious core, their need for the maintenance of the status quo and their superiority means that sometimes, sometimes there is a need to remove an individual completely. It may be made to be an accident, it may be subtle, it may involve a contract killing, but certain individuals, on rare occasions, will be removed because they pose a threat to the Greater’s plans and control. The individual may be a romantic appliance, a business appliance or a familial appliance, but if the Greater deems their removal necessary and this outweighs the benefits of continued punishment, torture and fuel provision from this individual, then they will be dis-incentivised.

Thus, the prevailing circumstances are that we do not want you dead, no matter how many times it might be threatened, because an alive appliance is a very useful appliance. However, on rare occasions there will be exceptions.

 

 

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170 Comments

  1. I was looking for comment about Bloody Elemental… I cannot find it. I liked her. She was funny. She called me a Loonie, and made me laugh so much. I miss her, actually! I was intimidated by Ah Oh, though. “Ah Oh” could be really super sweet, but also so opinionated, and critical in such a beastly way. But, I do miss BE. I never recall having a problem with her. She really cheered me up. I thought her personality was so cute! She was like a sister to me. I was like a thorn in her side, to her. Lol. Miss her.

  2. So, based on what you have said, does that mean we need to take the narcissists threats seriously, or not? I think, to be on the safe side, the empath should disengage immediately. I did!

    1. You should always go no contact. You should not worry unnecessarily however with regard to idle threats as
      1. That increases anxiety; and
      2. It’s a form of engagement by thinking about the narcissist which this increases emotional thinking and it’s double downsides

  3. Mr Tudor takes the little Empaths on a field trip.
    They approach a stinking bog.
    Mr Tudor clears away rotting debris and bits of old tarpaulin with his N-deflecting staff.

    “See? This is where the ugly creatures lurk, waiting to pull you into their filth and soul-sucking depravity….”

    The Empaths’ beautiful eyes widen in astonishment.
    Gasps are heard. One recently heartbroken Empath turns her face away in horror, uttering a deeply heart-felt “ugh!”

    Many pairs of desperate predatory eyes fix instantly on the empaths, from the black gloom of the bog. Hissing, spitting insults, and grinding of teeth in jealous rage is heard, the volume of churning fury rising with each moment that passes.

    “Don’t get too close!”, he cautions.
    “Observe only as necessary!
    When you know, you go,” he says in his familiar, authoritative, baritone.

    “Hey Babe! You’re my soulmate! Text me!”, is heard from one creature from the bog.
    Quick as a flash, Tudor’s staff is applied forcefully to the creature’s head.
    “Did you get that message, loser?”

    A delicious tingle runs through the empaths.

    “But Mr Tudor, can they hurt us now?”, the heartbroken Empath asks.

    “Not while I’m here!”, he reassures her, and laughs, as power surges through him.

    The empaths gaze at him adoringly, feeling protected.
    They smile, pleased to have him looking out for their best interests.
    The brokenhearted Empath wipes a tear from her eye, and smiles too.

    “Time to GOSO!”, Tudor says loudly.
    And so they do.

  4. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any child is born a psychopath

    They may possess a predisposition to a certain type of mental illness that becomes triggered by neglect abuse etc which then manifests to bring about the symptoms of psychopathy

    Almost all serial killers had something wrong
    Hatred towards women is a big one in male serial killers
    Rejection by females ,mother issues ,abuse by a female when young could send a fragile person over the edge in this way due to the way their brain is wired It may not even be apparent to the person as they have it buried so deeply in the subconscious to keep the pain horror away

    I do believe those with that tendency who didn’t suffer abuse may suffer other mental illness but would have less chance of ending up as a psychopath

    I feel it is due to their warped perception of self that is wounded to the core that allows psychopathy to take hold

    Just my humble opinion

    Kiki

  5. FYC,
    A new acronym for myself (because I am not the brightest bulb) is…

    No TATE for narcissists – No Time/Attention/Thought/Emotion

    And, to whomever issued the ACRONYM glossary for HG and his readers, I say thank you very much!

    1. E&L, that acronym would actually work for me superbly well since narc and I loved visiting the TATE gallery. No TATE for the narcissist!

  6. HG, apologies if someone has already posed this question and I’ve missed it.

    But why exactly do MRNs come to this site and stir things up so much?

    Is it because they’re lacking fuel in RL?

    1. 1. They do not know what they are. What they do think is that they are victims and possibly an empath.
      2. They attack me because they see me as the devil incarnate and a bad person and that I should be chastised for this. What they are really doing is trying to provoke me in order to gain fuel, but they do not realise this.
      3. They attack my readers thinking that they are all brainwashed/sheep/in some kind of cult and should not be engaging with me. This is done because they are envious of my work, my following and they want to provoke me and my readers to gain fuel. Again, they do not know this. They of course always fail to have regard to the evidence which is :-
      a. I freely admit what I am, therefore people know from the start what they are engaging with;
      b. The complete absence of evidence of any form of manipulation here;
      c. Even if there were such evidence, so what, I am a narcissistic psychopath, what did you expect?! It’s like saying “Oh look fire” and putting your hand into the flames and being surprised when it hurts!
      d. Nobody is forced to attend here, read here or contribute here. If you do not like it, go elsewhere. Of course they just cannot do this because that means they have not got control and they have not gained fuel. Anybody who was normal or an empath would arrive, read and if they thought “I do not like this” they would depart. Their interaction and level of engagement is very low, thus they can readily depart (the ET would not keep them here). Moreover, an empath might (not always) state “You are a bad person, I am out” but they do not make a song and dance about it (because they do not need fuel). Indeed, they will often just depart without announcement.
      e. Hundreds of thousands of people have been helped by my work, are treated politely and given answers they cannot obtain elsewhere. That speaks for itself.

      Often these Mid Rangers have their own sites where they are in effect Support Forum Fraudsters. They cannot stand,owing to their sense of entitlement, envy and the lack of control that it manifests to see how successful my work is and therefore they cannot help themsleves but try to attack my readers and me. Others claim to research the topic and their grandiosity and sense of entitlement means they want to prove me wrong but they cannot because (1) they do not fully understand the subject, (how can they?) (2) they often plagiarise the work of others – this is repeatedly seen (3) they talk about evidence/research but never produce anything (or what is produced does not stand upto scrutiny). For an example of number three, many readers may remember a particular idiot (I will not name this idiot to avoid giving fuel) who first appeared here over two years ago. This idiot still tries to comment here and/or email me and/or talks about me on other forums. It kept advancing nonsensical propositions (grandiosity and sense of entitlement) and referring to research purportedly supporting the propositions but when asked (politely) about producing this research by numerous readers, failed to produce it (lack of accountability) and deflected with baseless claims of readers being racist (even though they do not know the race of the idiot!) and that they would steal its work (utter nonsense) and thereafter sought to smear those readers. It cannot stand what I have written about Meghan Markle and I knew that the trailer for A Very Royal Narcisisst 2 would provoke a response and it came through two blog comments, but I do not post them now.

      I have several folders which hold evidence of these behaviours of these various Mid Range Narcissists – from what they have posted elsewhere (readers alert me to it and/or I receive notifications if they mention my name), alongwith the content of e-mails sent to me which not only confirm precisley what they are but show the raft of contradictory and manipulative behaviours. I may utilise these as case studies in the future, although I will anonymise them as I do not want to give them any recognition or any dollop of fuel. You will all find them interesting, entertaining and no doubt realise just how much nonsense I receive in comments and my inbox! Ultimately, these individuals are a minority and the vast majority of people who comment here are sensible and constructive.

      1. Goodness. That is an incredibly comprehensive reply. Thank you so much HG. This all makes perfect sense to me now. It really does.

        They are definitely jealous that’s for sure!

        1. Alexis. HG Tudor is being very modest: A lot of them are head over heels infatuated with him, buried beneath their sometimes hostile, jealousy and envy and venom. They just do not see it, for some reason, and thereby cut off their own foot, so to speak. Not too smart, at end.

          1. Indeed PSE. One often sees this pattern :-

            1. Attack me. (You are misleading people/you have a cult/you shouldn’t do this or that)
            2. If this fails to illicit a response, Pity Play (why won’t you answer me/why are you ignoring me)
            3. If this fails to illicit a response, Attempted Charm (“I think what you do is very valuable” – oh you do, do you, funny that, you didn’t seem to think that when you were attacking my readers/me though did you? Of course not, but since that got you nowhere and because as a MRN you cannot see your hypocrisy you will not try and be pleasant to me because you are desperate for my attention.)

            I have a clear and interesting example of this having occurred only recently on another platform.

            1. The indiviudal concerned repeatedly issued comments about me and my readers which were derogatory. Typically based on no evidence, exhibitng envy and as always wanting to tell other people how to think and what to do.
            2. I was aware of the comments as I received notifications (although I did not read them all) but did not respond. The individual kept on and on, several times a day, desperate to provoke a response.

            3. Said individual then wrote to me by email, inviting me to debate with them (sense of entitlement and grandiosity) and claiming that I was giving them a silent treatment (you wish- you have to matter to get that)( more grandiosity and magical thinking). I did not respond.
            4. Said individual then seeks my serivces but of course does nothing to pay for it. Again it is an attempt to provoke a response from me.
            5. Said individual then sends email which exhibits significant magical thinking, entitlement and grandiosity. Benign in nature but riddled with magical thinking. I am saving the content of that for another occasion as it shows serious delusion. I do not respond.
            6. Said individual returns to other platform commenting now benignly about my work (having spent repeated occasions mauling it). Note this is not someone who has changed their mind from reading and the application of logic, it is the shift of type of manipulation.
            Of course it is pointless me pointing this out to the relevant person or responding, but it serves as a clear case study and how such an individual operates behind a facade elsewhere which could cause significant problems for the unwitting through misinformation and manipulation.

          2. “claiming that I was giving them a silent treatment (you wish- you have to matter to get that).” This is perfect.

          3. HG it is not only narcissists that come here and do this type of thing, so I was wondering how you would characterize these other individuals? Do they just seek your attention because they have been starved for attention there whole lives, do they become addicted to you and the blog, are they seeing you as some type of rock star and they are your groupies, do they have psychological issues, or do they just have high narcissistic traits? Thank you as always for taking the time to read this.

          4. Do you mean why do non-narcissists engage in this behaviour also?
            Also, do you mean – why do some people come here and develop an infatuation for me without engaging in the attacking behaviour?

          5. It’s madness. I just don’t get the whole jealousy thing at all. Yes I like to achieve what I can within the remit of my own capabilities, but I also recognize the achievement and sucess of others and genuinely happy for them too. Until I experienced the N, I really did not know what Jealousy was. And if that is what they feel like all the time, I feel desperately sorry for them. It must be awful

          6. Goodness HG – I just don’t think I’d have the energy for that. Id just hit delete. You have an amazing strength

          7. Dearest HG: I have seen every strategy that you mentioned above, posted to you from the various hostile, yet infatuated sort. Next, such a person will tell everyone that they are: Having Your Baby! On Mars! Oh my goodness. This sort of thing I read about, happens to Hollywood stars, all the time, in the U.S. These stalkers fake emails about the person, photoshop fake photos with the person, Write false letters to themselves and mail it to themselves in the person’s name. Wear jewelry and wedding rings saying the person gifted them. and has promised himself to them. I never saw this sort of thing actually happen until now, to you. These people can and do escalate, but I am sure you have safety measure in place. And hopefully these people are not competent and sophisticated enough to cause real damage to your work, as they scoot around screeching to you and about you, all over the internet. But, some may be able to. Just because someone is psychologically ill and out of control, does not mean they can not be dangerous, in one way or the other. And if they start hurting your work, they will have definitely crossed the line. As the wise proverbs say: Taking away a person’s livelihood is like murder. Such people need to be stopped, if they start hurting a person’s livelihood.

          8. Alexis: Hahaha. Your post: [` Goodness HG – I just don’t think I’d have the energy for that. Id just hit delete. You have an amazing strength`]. Alexis: HG is definitely a Marvel. I am trying my best to learn from him.

      2. HG, RE: Midranges–Obviously not a silent minority!

        I thought your comment:

        “I am a narcissistic psychopath, what did you expect?! It’s like saying “Oh look fire” and putting your hand into the flames and being surprised when it hurts!”

        That also fits when we engage with a N (other than you) post HGU enlightenment.

        1. Yes although you invariably don’t realise you’re with another narcissist owing to ET.

          1. In my case (familial) it is my fault and the result is the same even when I was hopeful for a different result (which was ET also). I am far better off post OOCGE (thanks again for that awesome insight).

          2. Dearest HG: I keep hearing the phrase, tipping point, used on this site, what is it, please?

          3. It is the point at which you lose insight because your ET has hit the tipping point. You no longer abide by logic, you are governed by ET and fail to see that this has happened.

          4. Dearest HG: Fascinating. Thank you for the explanation of Tipping Point. Will you ask, in the fullness of time, if you have not already, when readers believe they reached or went over the tipping point in their Narcissistic entanglement, HG? ( I am not sure how this tipping point is used in a sentence or question). Alexis told me not to be reluctant to ask questions if I am interested in something, and that I am not being pushy.

          5. I may do so, although it is often difficult for people to gauge that.

        2. I really liked that particular comment too FYC.

          I either have high pain threshold or I’m just fooking stupid because I know when I’m putting my hand in the fire and still keep doing it!

          1. Haha Alexis, I prefer ‘optimistic’, but either way the fire burns just the same, so now I OOCGE (Observe Only, Cease Giving Energy).

          2. Observation is a form of engagement and therefore contravenes the first golden rule of freedom and should not be undertaken.

          3. You are absolutely correct, HG and I respect that in all other cases. I only still engage with one familial in accordance with my values, but keep it to a minimum.

          4. HG
            I agree that observation is a form of engagement but, if I am at school drop off/pick up (surrounded by narcissists), then I turn it into a learning moment. Narcissists are at the library, in public, driving/road rage, my daughter’s third grade teacher is NPD, neighbors, etc. They are everywhere and my field work has helped me exponentially.

          5. This can only be done when ET has been driven to its lowest point and the ‘buffer’ created is there to deal with ambush scenarios or ‘background narcissism’ (i.e. another parent you meet briefly when dropping a child off at school, the barman serving you a drink etc) it should not be used for repeated interaction otherwise the ET will increase and the tipping point achieved. The rule is Get Out and Stay Out (and staying out means do not observe – do not observe ‘your narcissist’ – if you have an interaction (not knowing that person was a narcissist) and look back on it and think ‘ah that woman at the school today did this, that’s the behaviour of a narcissist’ that is not an issue. It is not acceptable however to abide by a mantra of observance, that contravenes the first golden rule of freedom.

            (BTW you posted your real name – I changed it. You may wish to check your WP account).

          6. So very thoughtful of you to fix K’s name error, and most kind.

            Please do change any errors I may inadvertently make back to FYC (if I should ever make one again and I thank you again for doing so in the past).

          7. Lol, good point HG, it is my responsibility. But thank you again for your past kindness. I am very careful since that one occurrence.

          8. HG
            Oops! I fixed the name issue. Thank you. I quit PTO and no longer go to the play ground after school but I still want to volunteer at Bingo, it earns money for the school and it’s so busy we don’t have much time to interact.

            GOSO is the way to go and my ET is fairly low but, when I attend a school/library function, I am social and polite. Their behaviour is fascinating and maybe I’m a little addicted to watching them.

          9. Best way to be FYC!
            I just can’t help myself lol
            In fact – I may take a leaf out of Perry’s mum’s book when I come across Ns who are TS only. I wouldn’t be foolish enough to play that way with a SS

          10. Honestly Alexis, you are better off without any of their drama. Maybe HG can be your safe N for interaction when you feel the need? Not only is he not harmful to his readers, he has a better intellect and sense of humor.

          11. FYC, I appreciate your concern I really do. I am incredibly careful in what I do/ don’t do. And if I mess up, I’ll just pay HG!

            If a narc gives me trouble I’ll move out on the double and I won’t let it trouble my brain….Last night HG saved my life

            Well if enough people were there to witness it and he got sufficient fuel he would

          12. Okay I am actually feeling genuinely bad. I don’t want to be a bad influence for others and I don’t go looking for them but as K mentions we cannot avoid them, they are everywhere and I don’t have them as inner circle friends. These are just people I interact with. There is no choice. But yes I do have s little fun here and thrrr but not in a way where it is detrimental to myself or the N either. Well not in a malicious kind of way

          13. Alexissmith2016
            I cannot lie; I am a ‘narc voyeur”. The evening news usually has a few incidents of potential narc shenanigans each night.

          14. HG
            ha ha ha…thank you! It is summer so I should be narcissistic free until September.

          15. Alexis, I am glad you stay safe. No need to feel bad. We naturally encounter some Ns in life. But engaging is not a good idea as it ultimately leads to frustration or far worse.

          16. Thank you FYC and K. it is really lovely of you. I do take care of myself, I promise.

            But I do find I learn so much from the interactions I do have, most of which are unavoidable and I teach myself new tactics to deal with them. I’m loving big little lies

          17. Happy to hear that, Alexis. I do agree we learn even more by applying what we learn here in real life and I am learning more all of the time. But I am very glad to be virtually N free*

            *HG excluded

          18. My pleasure alexissmith2016
            I have learned so much too and, to be clear, I don’t actively seek them out, however, I am riveted by their behaviour.

            BLL is brilliant! I can’t wait for tonight.

          19. I am also looking forward to tonight’s episode (it is broadcast one evening later than in the US) or rather I was until I started seeing spoiler information given away in comments!

          20. Oh no! I didn’t realize either HG. I would’ve thought you saw it before us. We will have to be more careful moving forward.

          21. HG
            Oops! Sorry about that. I noticed it was airing a day later for other viewers and I was wondering why. You will love it!

          22. HG
            Ha ha ha…next Sunday, I will hold off until you get to see it, then I’ll post my thoughts.

      3. Very comprehensive answer HG. Thank you.

        I was curious about the Pamela Dianne situation and whether you also thought perhaps there was something else going on there too?

        Reading the comments from that particular individual they were very disturbing in how the commentary would change from sounding somewhat Rational (perhaps angry but at least coherent) to completely incoherent. It got me thinking perhaps that person was under the influence of a substance and/or dealing with a multitude of things.

        I was just curious to your thoughts.

        Also I think what happens (and correct me If I’m wrong) is that some people don’t take the time to really read through your work before commenting. So they jump to
        Conclusions. I was actually reading some quora comments last night and it was evident they did not take the time to read your work throughly enough. But I can also understand their weariness of you because you are after all…. a sociopath.

        I also think if a person has not been entangled with a narcisisf before… they could potentially think your work is exaggerated… but when you’ve been with one. You know it’s not. You see it’s accuracy. But unless someone has been there personally they can’t comprehend it the same way a victim could.

        Empaths can get pretty angry when dealing with a narc … so I’m surprised you haven’t run across a few angry empaths 🤣 I guess like you say they move on.

        Interesting read. Thanks for this.

        1. Hello Empath007,

          1. It is possible that there was the influence of a substance layering the foundation behaviour. Possibly an alternative might be a co-morbid condition.
          2. You will find that the ones who launch attacks always do so without evidence, having failed to fully read the majority of material and driven by envy.
          3. Raw and hurt empaths do occasionally lash out, I understand that and they are entitled to do so. They tend to do it once and then move on because either
          a. They are hurt, lash out and do not remain because it continues to cause them pain and this drives them elsewhere (and there is no need for fuel, envy, need for control keeping them in place);
          b. They read more and realise ‘I don’t condone this man, but his material is damn helpful and I am seeing this now, so I am going to stay and contribute.’ ; or
          c. I was hurt and my response bore this out, but having read, applied logic, my ET is under better control and I am fortunate indeed to have access to this material and I am grateful for it.
          Empaths either leave or stay, but if they stay they use the material and contribute. Yes, they might challenge in a constructive and intellectual fashion but they do not create baseless shit storms like the narcisissts do that occasionally appear here.

          1. That makes sense. Me personallly I’ve never commented on a blog before so I had Been reading your stuff for months before deciding to join the community here.

            For me, the information rang too true I could not ignore it. I felt enthralled because finally I had validation of my feelings. Every explanation the narc gave me (up to the point of confession) did not add up to me, did not make sense and I knew it conflicted with what the truth really was.

            But I admittedly have been triggered by some articles and can totally understand an empath lashing out at you to feel a bit of release of anger. But your explanations of the difference make a lot of sense.

            Cold hard doses of the truth are not for everyone so I can also understand why some might choose to move on. I think that’s a loss for them though because people need to wake up to this condition as it is ruining lives.

            Thanks HG.

  7. I think the exceptions might be the ones like Bundy and Manson, and other Serial Killers. I would gather these are Sociopaths/Psychopaths or … I don’t know, actually. But, when I think of Sociopaths, I think of these kind. I am not sure of their diagnosis, though. If this comment is stupid, no need to post it.

    1. Tamara: I am a bit confused myself about what is a psycho path and what is a sociopath. At this point of my little understanding of the matter, a psychopath is born that way and a sociopath becomes that way. Even the DSM (including DSM 5, and I am not a mental practitioner nor study the DSM, but that periodical is mentioned a lot,) seems to be confused and under flux around the definitions of all this including NPD. HG Tudor is state of the art in this arena, and so I will go by what he says if he ever discusses this, but it is confusing and I do not know if it is important for me to know at this point in my understanding, when even the practitioners are not on the same page. I guess it’s complicated.

      1. The DSM manual currently uses APD, Antisocial Personality Disorder to encompass the scale. The DSM has changed its definition over time. Typically, from what I have read in scholarly journals, both sociopath and psychopaths are created by a combination of genetics and environment (versus born or made). Notable changes in personality are visible prior to age 15. The key difference most researchers make is that sociopaths are of lower intelligence and have difficulty holding down a job and are given to violence and acting out without restraint. Pshychopaths are highly intelligent and usually highly educated and blend in with society.

        Hope this helps.

        1. FYC: I remember hearing that the fury is different, as well as hearing that the psychopath is born and the sociopath is made. I also heard that the sociopath can find a way to alleviate their fury and perhaps continue with a certain partner longer, after a calming down period, whereas the psychopath can not, once their wrath is activated. From what I understand the Sociopath is more advanced than the Psychopath. So we are hearing the exact opposite. FYC, this is PRECISELY why many mental practitioners are having problems with the DSM and thus are incorporating more and more their own findings and observations, once they are certified. I also hear there has been an addendum regarding NPD added to the DSM. Only because, the mental practitioners demanded it. It is such a mess, and the mental practitioners themselves are confused. And, this mess is why many mental practitioners are overtly and covertly incorporating HG Tudors terminology and analysis and works, into their practices, because they are having more success that way, in their careers and their consulting, and in assisting their clients, and many say so publicly and many have said that he is advancing both the breadth and the depth of the field in a very beneficial way. Anyway, I am on my way to the gym…it is nice and empty-ish on Sundays. I am learning from these Elite Narcissists and also from these Somatic Narcissists to work out a bit more. Balance. We can study and learn from them as well. ~bye.

          1. Not sure of your sources PSE, but the research I have read is very consistent (happy to supply references). Enjoy your day.

          2. FYC: Thank you, FYC. I may take you up on your offer. Clarification: When I said that according to what I understand that the sociopath is more advanced than the psychopath, (I did not mean advanced as far as having an occupation or success or formal education or blending in.) in that the sociopath is more advanced Ethically and Morally as a person, than the psychopath, even if it that advancement exists in a very miniscule and thinly applicable fashion. But, the psychopath was and is totally without any moral or ethics ever, from birth. Born completely bad. Genetically born completely bad. No ethical or moral capacity was ever there in the first place to be either buried or retrieved or stimulated or rehabilitated, or forever hidden, from birth. Born bad, from birth. The sociopath did have a moral/ethical capability that was clamped down so to speak because it was being violated somehow at an early age, within the societal realm of that child, in a manner that the youth could not integrate, so the mind shut it down, because, it was breached and being destroyed in its capacity to function, before a major episode could then destroy the child’s entire mind completely, in the manner that a circuit breaker shuts down part of its system ( that was running) to stop a destructive surge from gaining enough momentum to burn out the entire important operating system/the entire mind of the child. But the moral/ethical system was once openly there and running, before being shut down, by the circuit breaker, so to speak, when the child was born. So, the child at some point was overbearingly being morally and ethically and psychologically and perhaps even physically breached, without empathy, in whatever happened within the society where that child lived. And the child became a sociopath. Especially aided if a genetic predisposition was inherently within the child. The Pathos fits the crime for the sociopath, more understandably than for the psychopath. The psychopath is just born completely bad. Right now, I plan to wait it out for a couple of years to see if all these experts play nice with each other, so to speak. For now, these mental practitioner experts went around in so many circles on the various schools of thought regarding the psycho vs socio debate, they tired me out. Whew. Is stigma involved? I do not know. Perhaps some would rather be called a psychopath than a sociopath and conversely. I just do not know at all.

          3. PSE: Those sound more like someone’s beliefs or anecdotal assessments versus evidence-based data. I tend to lean more towards a meta analysis of prevailing theories and scientific research versus general discussion. Even then, studies can biased, or flawed, and most are limited. This area of study in science is relatively new and far more research needs to be completed. That said, extant data offers better evidence than conjecture.

            Here’s a summary of what is currently accepted. To date, there is no objective, conclusive test for sociopathy or psychopathy. Sociopaths and psychopaths both lack empathy for others and lack guilt/remorse. Both highly correlate to NPD behaviors. Psycopathy is considered a stable trait across time, culture and socioeconomic status. Sociopathy is considered to be a less stable condition. Psychopath brains correlate with normal to high executive function and sociopaths correlate with impaired or low executive function. Psychopaths correlate with higher IQs, sociopaths, with lower IQs. Sociopaths are highly impulsive and antisocial in behavior. Psychopaths are able to function in society and can be highly social and personable to secure their aims. In theory, a sociopath may have an extremely low level conscience (per self-report, therefore I discount this), but they do not abide by it, instead they proceed without a second thought. Psychopaths do not have evidence nor self-report of a conscience. Sociopaths tend to be transient in society and have difficulty holding a job. Psychopaths are often well educated and, for the most part, and can be found in higher levels of society. A smaller subset of more impulsive, violent phychopaths are criminals.

            This is but a tiny portion of information culled from many sources and is by no means remotely comprehensive. There are numerous interesting fMRI studies on psychopaths as well, but these are more experimental in nature.

          4. FYC: Morals and Ethics. Those reports that you present to me, (and I do appreciate them, FYC) neglect to focus substantively on the the Moral and Ethical foundation of the Psychopath and the Sociopath, that I am concerned with. Namely, that the Sociopath is born with the ethical and moral potential and the Psychopath is not. The potential to hold a job seems to be the main concern of the experts. And I find that concern to be quite United States of American However, It is not my main concern. I see you did present that: [ `In theory, a sociopath may have an extremely low level conscience (per self-report, therefore I discount this*), but they do not abide by it, instead they proceed without a second thought` ]. So, once again it does seem that the sociopath has/had a conscience, while the psychopath does not, like I understand. I am not suggesting, as most can see in my writing, that the conscious has not been suppressed, perhaps even almost completely. But no one can say that it is 100% unreachable like in a psychopath, even though the sociopath may walk over his conscience to secure his goals. The current trend I see from your small sample is to praise functioning within a society, more than functioning as a moral and ethical person, and this trend does not surprise me in the least. However, societies and jobs can and have been and are involved in some of the most horrific of activities, therefore I am not impressed so much about an individual being able to hold a job or function within a certain society, more than if the person has any moral or ethical potential whatsoever. Even if it is active only on a cognizant level. However, I see nothing that you posted so far to disprove that the sociopath is made and the psychopath is born. *Who is discounting this because it is self reported, you FYC, or the writer of some of the data that you presented to me?

          5. PSE, I am not addressing your personal beliefs or morals or anyone else’s, you, and others are entitled to those. I commented on this thread to provide what research has uncovered repeatedly in an effort to illuminate the difference between sociopaths and psychopaths.

        2. FYC: Note: FYC, I do not know if you live in the United States, like I do, but in the United States it is somewhat politically incorrect to say that some one can be born bad. The political social push is to say that there is some good in everybody. I do not believe that. And that can not be forced on me, personally. I believe some people are absolutely born bad. Perhaps the DSM is also leaning towards the saying that no one is born bad and that there is some good in everybody. Yeah…sure….

          1. PSE, It is not about “political correctness” whatsoever. The problem with judgements like ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ is, the meaning, intent, use and interpretation of such terms varies by each person. This is why such terms are avoided in any form of real science.

            While the study of behavioral science and psychology is far from perfect, at least there is an attempt to define a deviation in behavior and understand its etiology and predictable outcomes. Unfortunately, the psychological community does not always take a scientific approach, nor strictly adhere to their own definition of terms.

            Lastly, you may consider a psychopath to be “born bad”, yet you consider HG to be “dearest”. HG is a narcissist psychopath. Is HG good? Many would argue yes. Is HG bad? Many would argue yes. The truth lies not in the good or bad judgments, but in each viewer’s perception of their experience and knowledge. HG enjoys all of his behaviors (his victims only enjoys a portion of his behaviors).

            Society may agree psychopaths are “born bad” (yet HG, and all scientific fields agree, APD develops over time due to a combination of GPD and enviornment). Many of these ‘bad’ people have made significant contributions to society, while causing significant, non violent harm to others. It is complicated.

            PSE, on a personal level, I do agree that cruelty, abusive, and criminal violence are “bad” for a variety of reasons.

          2. FYC: Truth by definition, is a permanent Construct. Love is also. People can say, and even believe, it depends. That is their right as adults. That is about all ll I have to say about that. Next, I never said I regarded HG as a Narcissistic Psychopath. He may regard himself as one, or perhaps he has been diagnosed as one. But I do not agree. Is he? I do not know, And the experts can not even get together on this topic. But from my reading of a lot of his work, I consider him to be a Narcissistic Sociopath. I do not believe he was born, from the womb, with absolutely no concept of morals and ethics and conscience, like a psychopath. I do not have to explain this, because it is somewhat personal, but for the record, I call him Dearest HG , because I have compassion and empathy and I also relate to his self that has been shut down, that may or not be able to even hear me call him Dearest HG, because his Narcissism is hyper vigilant and operates a strict filter, and is suspicious and sometimes paranoid, from my understanding of how it works on his behalf. And his Narcissism is on a high level because HG by nature, is on a high cognizant level. The Narcissism is working hard on His behalf. On behalf of HG, the person, that The Narcissism protects by any and all means necessary. But, I can call him Dearest HG, because it is his Narcissism and not mine. The Narcissism has created splits in his personality, but I am not under the authority of his Narcissism, so I do not have to relate to him according to the splits that the Narcissism created for him to survive. I am not under the dictates of his Narcissism. I do not have to go along with its dictates, and I have the right to try to bypass its strict censorship when I speak to him. I can see him as more than the Narcissism Mechanism that is his main pilot, so to speak. HG the person is still there. Speaking of which, I do not really see him as HG either, rather I personally see him as a brilliant and artistic man with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, who has the Pen Name and Confidential Anonymous name, as HG Tudor. And so I hope I have clarified why I call him Dearest HG. In short, I believe a very beautiful and sensitive man was harmed growing up. And that part of the man exists, but is largely chained, but that part of the man has the right to be spoken to by those who desire to, whether or not the conversation makes it way past the protective filters of his Narcissism. I desire to speak to the man in his totality, as much as I possible can. This is how my personality feels about HG Tudor, and this is why, FYC, I call him Dearest HG.

          3. PSE, I have no problem with you addressing HG as dearest. My point was that perceptions vary by viewer. I very much appreciate HG.

          1. Thank you, PSE. We all learn something from different viewpoints. Our varied perspectives keep things interesting. Take BLL, we are all watching the same show, yet have vastly different perspectives of the characters. It’s all good.

      2. PSE,

        Thank you; it is confusing to me, too. I have read about the differences, from various sources, but am still confused due to many of those resources not getting their own information from reliable resources.

        I do not think that it is as crucial to know the differences between the Psychopath/Sociopath as it is to know the overall signs of Toxic Behavior (that HG Tudor teaches, here).

        Before I knew about the complexity of all the mind-play that Sociopaths use on their victims, I really only thought of Sociopaths in terms of Serial Killers (even though I had been living under the darkness of Narcissists most of my life without knowing what they were, or what “mind games” were).

        There was not only psychological abuse, but also spiritual, physical, and sexual abuse, as well. But, the worst was the mental and spiritual abuse because of the deep confusion and ‘Cognitive Dissonance’. It made me so mixed up about everything. I think it still affects me because sometimes I still feel so mixed up, and not on the same “realm” as everyone else. It causes me grief. But, generally, I am a happy person! (Sorry for getting off the subject. I get distracted a bit, sometimes).

        1. Tamara. HG did tell us to focus rather on something, but I am can not remember how he put it. I never heard of any of this, untl last year. I never had a psychology course in High School or University. I had a sociology course once, and I considered the particular course and teachings presented to me as Trash, and I received a low grade in it as well. Only one of the 2 low grades that I received in the 4 years of University. I was punished for the way I think, in that sociology class. I had not learned, at that time, for my higher goals, to be politically correct in some way, when needed, in the University. I am sorry. I rambled a bit as well. But, if the person is destroying us, we have to get out. Get Out and Stay Out.

          1. Thank you, PSE; and, I don’t mind if you ramble. I had Psychology class in high school. My favorite topic in this class was Abnormal Psychology. I also had Sociology. Of course, I could continue on with the rest of the classes I took, but I suppose that would be getting off the subject. Incidentally, I trimmed my hair about four inches, last night. It feels better, now, since it is getting so hot with summer. I am hoping I got it even. Lol.

          2. Tamara: If your hair is not even, remember, there are some amazing videos on youtube, about how to cut your own hair and fringe/bangs, etc.

          3. There should be a direct link between the word “regret” and “bangs” in the dictionary.

          4. SweetP
            Re: Regret linked to bangs.

            Not with regard to just hair either. Thankfully no pics.

          5. NA, your vague response only served to activate the darkest possibilities in my imagination now…

          6. Sweetest: I perceive you have experienced some less than stellar to yourself results with having fringe/bangs cut into your hair.

          7. PSE, if you mean losing hope for life and wanting to wrap yourself in a blanket like a burrito and disconnect from humanity, waiting for it to be over in a couple of months, yes, you’re totally right in your assumptions.

          8. Princess,

            Thank you for hair advice; and, I do have bangs (fringe)! Hair is wavy/curly… so, even if its a bit uneven, it curls up, anyway. My favorite hair products are Giovani! My hair has a rounded cut to it, not straight across. Longer in back, and shorter up front because my face is sort of round… and weird… like a girl, and not a woman. So, I try to make myself look as sophisticated as possible like other women, and not so simple. I even tried to gain weight to look “older”. I did look older with the weight, but the weight is dropping off because I cannot sustain it. I do not eat enough to be fat, and it’s unhealthy for me to have extra weight, anyway. I am meant to be petite, feathery, and agile.

          9. Believer, you will look older if you become more sophisticated, even in your speech. No need to force your body to look older. Many young European and young Latin American women look older, because they are so mature compared to most young women in the U.S. And they do not chase trends. I thought one was around 30 and she was only 19. Very pretty. She was an International airline stewardess. But, she stood very straight and tall with perfect light makeup and a good hairstyle that suited her face, and dressed very softy and classically and she wore mainly neutrals: beige ,white, grey, black, and maybe one accent color at times, etc and pearls and she stood out more than her clothing and etc. She was quite slim. So just be the most petite and fragile and airiest young person out there. Be true to your own type. Hone it. A Fairy with sophistication. Maybe grow your hair as long as possible, if you have not done so.

  8. Ok so I just read this article again and again. It’s no more fun and games for me since I have cornered my Narcissist. My life has been threatened and a painful one for that matter. Are you saying Mr. H that murder is a factor ? My question needs to be answered because he has instilled fear and you Mr. H have taught me so much and h now have clarified that it is possible!!!!!!!!

    1. Santaann1964, be cautious! When somebody asks me if my dog bites, my answer is always “well, he has teeth.”

      Just because he’s never bitten before doesn’t mean he can’t.

      1. MB
        I knew a mailman that was always being pounced on by loose dogs. The owners would always laugh and say “oh he doesn’t bite”. His response was: “I know it, you know it, but the dog doesn’t”.

    2. Santaann1964,

      “Thus this is the general rule, however, as with all rules, there are exceptions. What are the exceptions when the desire to kill is acted on?”
      HG Tudor

      If you are interested in reading about a real life example of HG’s explanation please look up Lisa Bianco/Alan Metheney. It begs the question of “Is there a point of no return?” Please be safe and take care of yourself.

      1. And yes I saw his quote. But the N specifically said you corned me now you will pay with much pain and begging for mercy and there won’t be any. This is the exception with what I know! It’s not like any other threat . The information is in writing from him and will destroy his so called “facade” it’s that bad

      2. Mr.H I would like a consultation but not on is he a narc. I want one on this issue, not sure how to do that. I don’t want to pay for what I already know, I want to discuss this article. Lmk. Thank you Mr.H

      3. Hi

        I’m no expert on this but I think from watching a lot of true crime that serial killers have an uncontrollable compulsion to kill somewhat like extreme Obsessional Compulsive Disorder They are driven by urges they cannot control
        Mental illness may be a root cause the human brain can go very very wrong ,and this illness is kept in check by the facade or construct

        Abuse as a child or teenagers is also a HUGE factor

        When you mix the predisposition towards mental illness and trauma to the self from abuse such as bullying parental neglect etc it increases chances of psychopathy

        But only in those who have a brain wired to go this way

        Kiki

        1. Kiki
          I think you are correct. To Control Is To Cope and for the psychopath killing is the ultimate act of power and control. It’s no surprise that we have Cluster Bs. They are wired to kill and they can’t control it.

        2. Kiki: I am saying that some people are born without any ethical or moral capacity whatsoever. Born bad. And if law is not forever before their face and their thoughts, restraining them, and reminding them of incarceration and jail and imprisonment, and if somehow they find opening moments where they believe they are not being observed and are free and safe to act, you will be in terrible trouble if you fall into the hands of this sort especially, from all walks of life and educational levels and sophistication levels, whether this sort is either on a low level or a high level. Absolutely nothing too horrific for them to think of and do. Nothing too disgusting or too offensive or too revolting for them to do. Defying all imagination. Born bad. Watch out. And the DSM will not be there to protect you. And the DSM seems to be moving away from saying some people can be born bad. Yeah…ok.

          1. Kiki: I am not sure, but I watched a few episodes of a series once, but I could not follow up on it at that time: It was called: Dexter. If I remember correctly, I think his father saw that he was born bad, and his father tried to find ways for him to skillfully exercise his pathos, and not be caught and then have to go to prison. Something like that. It was years ago when I watched a few episodes. Well, I may or may not be right, about the TV series Dexter, but I stand by the fact that in real life, some people are just born bad. Parents have taken their little 2 or 3 year olds to counseling and the counselor tells the parents it is just a bad phase, but the parents know better, that their child is bad, but the parents now feel helpless. They know they have a bad little child. And a mother becomes afraid that her baby is bad, as she takes care of her baby and looks into her babies eyes and how her baby behaves and the mother goes to therapy for help, would the therapist tell the mother that according to popular psychology, there is no such thing as a bad baby? Who knows. In NYC where I live, people on a sometimes lower cognizant level, who believe they have a bad child have tried to remedy the situation with odd exorcisms and medicines. Sometimes these children are accidentally killed by these practices. And the parents have said, during their court trials, that the child was bad, and nobody would help them nor believe them, and they had to try to do something, because the child was bad. True stories.

          2. Kiki: One more story: I knew a wonderful lady, nice job, and she married a man, a very successful man. Lots of money flowing for those 2. Golden couple. For some reason they adopted a newborn baby. I never asked why. One day, she told me in a whisper and secretly: something is wrong my baby. I asked her if she had taken the baby to a doctor, and she said, yes, and they found nothing wrong. Later on, sadly, when the child was around 2 years old, the child was diagnosed as autistic, a little boy, and he would not speak (boys take longer to speak at times, so it took longer for the medical people to find out what was wrong.), and he did not like noise and to be touched much, etc.. His mother’s heart was broken. My point is mothers and parents often know something is wrong with their child, even if a doctor or whoever, can not really find the problem, or believe there is a problem, at certain times.

          3. Hi PSE I do see your point I am not an expert and really haven’t a clue just surmising really
            I just can’t think of a baby born bad
            Most likely my ET lens again

            Kiki

          4. Kiki: Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it very much. Many people shudder to think that a baby/child can be born bad, especially in the United States, where I am from. And most experts try to convince parents otherwise, when the parents believe they have an immoral and unethical child. Usually, the children are put on drugs, in such cases, and the parental idea that their child is born bad is hushed up. I do not know if that is the case all over the world. But, the teachings and beliefs of a superpower do encroach, over time, the entire planet. It seems that horror movies love the plot of the bad seed, though. I guess the writers know that the thought is very disturbing to many people, that a child can be born bad.

  9. So what your saying is if “I” have evidence that would destroy this “N” and sent it to him and he says “ all he is thinking about is how to torture me and I will be begging for mercy and there will be none and it will hurt badly, and I won’t know when or where it’s coming and to lock my doors and windows and my kids and parents, I am to watch my surroundings at all times? And I am in danger? Mr.H?

  10. This last time I had contact with xN (after I failed the Hoover) I had the opportunity to talk to the IPPS (she doesn’t know I was IPSS and I didn’t know about her for the first years of my relationship with him. He tells her I am a friend). She told me that she keeps her shoes and a spare set of car keys hidden at the back door in case she needs to escape. Apparently he has threaten her life and it has scared her enough that she has a plan. His threats are because he is convinced she cheated on him 18 years ago.

    1. Mercy
      I’m not sure how much you knew at that time. What were your thoughts when she said that?

      1. NA, he is self destructing. I won’t bore you with all the details but I should explain a little. He is at the end of his career. He is no longer on top and can’t handle the decline in fuel. He has become addicted to prescription drugs (this has happened in the last 2 years). He was successful and intelligent. I think you understand when I say that even though he is a narcissist I had a level of respect for him because of his successes. Now he is loosing control. He talks about suicide (twice) and even though I don’t think he would do it I sense sincerity when he says it. She tells me he will kill her if she leaves. I know he won’t but I also know he won’t let her leave. He says he owns her as payment for what he has put up with by being with her.

        What are my thoughts? I am not surprised because I’ve watched him through the years evolve into the person he is now. I’m sad for her because there is no escape unless he discards her. I’m sad for him because he was once great (his facade was anyway). I’m relieved that I can see through the illusion and am no longer caught in it.

        I don’t think his threats are real but I don’t really know. I can’t help her without putting myself in danger of his wrath. It’s beyond my comfort zone.

        1. Hi Mercy, I just read all of this. I am so very happy you are GOSO again and hopefully, permanently. This N is coming unhinged due to his control slipping away on several fronts. The version of man you once knew is gone. He may never make good on those threats, but who knows what would make him cross that threshold? The wife probably knows even more than you about his abusive side and fears him for good reason. I hope she find a way to leave.

        2. Mercy
          You never know what people can be pushed to do when they become desperate but you are not responsible for his or her choices and the subsequent effects – only yours. You have helped her by keeping her secret about the keys and I’m glad you have warned her not to involve you further by giving you any more information. That’s enough involvement. I’m glad it’s not you hiding your shoes and keys. I had wondered if at the time you believed her or thought her to be overreacting because you hadn’t seen any signs of this in him.

          1. NA & FYC, thank you both for replying. I was starting to second guess myself yesterday about what my responsibility is.

            FYC They are not married and live separate. They have a child together. She is the one that goes to family events. In her mind she is the girlfriend but he will never publicly claim her as his girlfriend. That is why I was so easily fooled for many years.

            NA, I believe her. I have no reason not to believe her and he has told me he’s made threats to her. I have no ill will towards her but I’m in no position to help. You are both right saying you never know what will push someone over the edge. His addiction to the prescription has made his fury unpredictable. I hope she can find a way out but I believe she is codependent and wouldn’t leave even if she thought she could. Maybe some day she will figure out that she deserves better.

          2. Hi Mercy, That certainly casts a new light on the situation. I agree about the CoD since she tolerates his abuse and is ready to leave her own home, versus taking personal and legal action. It is a sad situation and I feel sorry for the child they share, but it is no longer your situation. You cannot change another, so this other woman will need to find her own legs and take a stand against his abuse. As for you, stay away and maintain no contact. Reinforce your boundaries. Change your contact information. Steer well clear of this triangle. Opt out. And, most of all, take care of you.

      2. NA, I also wanted to clarify that when she contacted me I told her not to tell me anything she didn’t want him to know. He’s a master manipulator and I didn’t want to have information that could harm her if he found out. I did tell her that I would take her hidden keys secret to my grave. That is a promise I know I can keep.

    1. Thought I would allow this one through just for the purpose of demonstration. Back again.
      (Oh and your email word salads always go to spam and have done so for weeks, although the level of delusion contained in them is entertaining.)

        1. WokeAF, I’m confused too but I’m sticking around to find out. HGs “purpose of demonstration” has got me intrigued.

          1. Mercy and Woke

            Pamela was here previously under different names (Pamela Dianne and Anonymous are two) exhibiting certain behaviours conducive to study. Part of that study is that they always hoover and she has demonstrated that. Can’t remember which thread.

            She’s a seagull. Shithawk.

          2. Ahh a shithawk haha. I like it! I remember reading anonymous a few days back. I will have to see if I can find Pamela Dianne. Thanks for catching me up.

          3. But no! The apocalyptic message was phenomenal, HG! Mercy, you need to find that one. She started cursing everyone. I’m almost sure her head was spinning when she posted it.

          4. “Shitbird” if you’re a ‘Sneaky Pete’ fan as I am.

            I like it better than ‘Big Little Lies’. No offense, but I just love to see him pull off the perfect con. It’s so satisfying! Is that wrong?

          5. NA, Indeed this bird is exactly as you earlier identified. Only difference is this one suffered a high speed window strike while swooping in to admire her reflection. She’s been flying in circles, squawking “Caw, Tony, Caw, Harvey” and dumping diarrhea all over the place ever since.

          6. Haha. High speed window strike. I pictured it. And to think my husband chased one around a parking lot to remove the plastic tangled around it’s leg.

          7. MB

            Yes. Messy but he was successful. He also stopped traffic in two directions once to pick up a turtle off the road to safety. It doesn’t always work out though. He once found a baby bird out of the nest in the yard and put it in a box and brought it to bed (I shit you not) and was feeding it water with an eye dropper. It died of course. I read up on it the next day and had to lower the boom on him (so he wouldn’t do that again) that they cannot take liquids that way and he had actually drowned the bird. Another time he rescued a baby squirrel left behind (no fur yet so it looked alien but made a hell of a racket). He named it Gary for some reason lol. He decided this time he did not want to risk killing it so he took it to the humane society where they took it and thanked him and then informed him that it would be put down. It’s the thought that counts.

          8. MB
            I’ve honestly never thought about it. He’s narcissistic but not a narcissist. People love him even though he is often more blunt than I am. Imagine that lol.

          9. NA, I CANNOT imagine a non-empath engaging in the behaviors you describe. Very interesting. Here’s a telling question: does he like cats?

          10. MB
            He claimed to hate them when I met him. Says they always lick before they bite (something I said even before I met him). Then my ex Mil called me to her deathbed and told me she couldn’t go until someone took her cat. Okay, so I got a cat. Then my now husband comes to my apartment and witnesses my new cat tugging my 20 pound full length velour bathrobe into the living room and begin humping it. He then declares (when he finished laughing) ‘that’s the coolest cat I ever saw”. The cat gravitates to him like smoke to a non-smoker. Husband claims to hate it but does nothing to deter it. Cat sleeps on husband’s pillow above his head. I thought I was sleeping with Daniel Boone. He will go well out of his way for animals. People – not so much. Part of the reason we are still together. We say it’s our civic duty to keep one another occupied and away from others.

          11. NA, what an awesome story! Love the cat humping the robe visual. I know exactly what you mean about the Daniel Boone! My dogs sleep on my pillow too. Any guy that shares his pillow with a cat has got to be the ‘coolest guy I ever saw’.

          12. NA, I like your husband because I’ve done the exact same shit: I rescued a baby bird that fell of his nest, but instead of trying to feed him I made a new nest for him and put him inside waiting for his parents to reappear. It so happened that he was eaten by a hawk instead. I also tried to save a squirrel that showed up at my house door severely injured by a cat. I took it to the emergency vet because wild animal control never answers the phone here. They put it down as I heard the news in horror. It’s Empath vs. cruel nature.

      1. Wow HG!
        Thank you for that glimpse into…. I’m not sure what….. I’m sorry that that’s your experience….

        I just had the feeling that comes with seeing a bird lying on the ground; you approach as it appears gently in repose and perhaps it’s only unconscious and can be helped.
        Once close you see the dead carcass is riddled with maggots, revulsion comes over you, as does the urge to vomit.

        You can’t get away fast enough….

      2. Dearest HG: What I fail to understand is, if someone likes to communicate with you, in public, you are here a lot of the time. And you read every post. So why would they jeopardize this fact by behaving in a way that is detrimental to themselves on a site that they like and risk getting themselves banned? I am reminded of little children that pinch, or pull the hair or throw things at another child that they have a crush on, or are infatuated with. Then they are expelled from school and can not interact with the other child at all. But, we all are adults. I just do not understand this self defeating hostile form of infatuation.