Putting A Sex On You

I was in session with Dr E.

“So,” I asked, “what is today’s topic for discussion?”

“Sex,” he replied.

“Do I have to talk about this with you?”

He pushed his spectacles back.

“You do not have to talk about anything, but I would hope you would discuss this with me.”

“Can’t I talk to Dr O about sex?”

“Why? Are you uncomfortable discussing sex with another man?” he asked. I could see he had his pen poised ready to make a note.

“Not at all. Sorry, doctor but there is no homophobia about me.”

“What makes you say that?”

“Well you were about to suggest that my reluctance to discuss matters of sex with you denotes a homophobic trait on my part.”

“Not at all, that would be prejudging you and an unsafe basis for analysis.”

“I don’t believe you,” I replied.

“Why would you rather discuss sex with Dr O?” he asked. He showed no sign of irritation or disappointment at my preference.

“I would be interested to learn her views about sex. She is so pristine and clinical when I see her, I want to know what goes on under the bonnet.”

“These sessions are about you not us,” said Dr E.

“Don’t worry Dr E I have no interest in whether you apply nettles to your scrotum or whatever it is you do to excite yourself.”

“Is that something you have done?” he asked.

“No but I have used them on someone else.”

“Male or female?”

“Female.”

“Why?”

“The stinging sensation across the nipples or the inner thighs of course hurts but then that gives way to a delicious flood of pleasure when combined with the application of my tongue.”

Dr E was scribbling.

“I see, so you enjoy the fact it hurts the other person and then becomes pleasurable for her?”

“No.”

“Please do expand.”

“Will I get to talk about sex with Dr O?” I asked, shifting topic.

“On some aspects of sex, yes,” replied Dr E. I smiled.

“Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

“I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

“So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

“Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

“Is that your conclusion or of others?”

“Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same.  I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

There was a long pause as Dr E jotted down my words. He looked a little flustered to me. I wished it was Dr O sat there instead.

“Do you think a sexual encounter should be about something other than control?”

I laughed at this comment,

“Heavens no, that is its only function. It is an instrument, like so many other things, to bring you under my spell, but I must admit, it is probably one of the most potent and effective instruments. Sex is actually rather boring but controlling the reaction and emotions of another person, well, now that is far more interesting.”

“Have you ever wondered what it would be like to give up that control and allow yourself to be enveloped in the ‘moment’ with the other person?” asked Dr E.

“No I cannot give up control. You see, I know there are those that engage in being tied up and punished, you know smacked with an open hand or a cane. They may get a sexual reaction from being treated like this but the real reason they do it is that they are giving up control. I had a girlfriend who was very submissive and allowed me to do…well I will let you use your imagination there doctor, but she wanted zero control. She was high up in a bank and responsible for millions of pounds and hundreds of employees and she wanted to be divested of that responsibility and give up her control if only for an hour or two. I found her explanation interesting but I could not understand it. Why give up control? Why surrender something you have worked hard to achieve? Control is the ultimate aim of taking someone to bed. I control them in that bed and the spell I put on them means that control extends far beyond the bedroom, such is its power.”

Dr E nodded and continued writing.

“What if you lost your sexual potency? What if you became impotent?” he asked.

“Why would that happen?”

“Plenty of reasons. Alcohol abuse, substance abuse, diabetes, age, anxiety. There are many reasons why this could happen.”

I shook my head.

“People like me don’t suffer that. God gave me the gift of sexual brilliance to further my purposes, He would not take it away from me.”

“But if it did happen, what would you do? How would you manage with such a loss of this marvellous instrument of control?”

“Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.

“Not at all. Just posing a relevant question aligned to your desire for control.”

“Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?”

Dr E remained silent. I copied him an just sat in silence glaring at him. How dare he suggest I would lose my potency? What an idiot. He ought to know better than that by now. I kept staring at him waiting for his next clever remark but he just stared back. This stand-off went on for a few minutes but I knew he would look away first. I maintained my baleful gaze as the fury at his impertinence coursed through me and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.

“Not so cocky now are we doctor?” I muttered under my breath.

Learn more about the narcissist’s view of sex in the ground-breaking book available here

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541 Comments

  1. That’s great! I agree now that we are learning I plan on doing the same. So funny I’m actually excited about the contact because I am so prepared! And yes Mr. H I am. The love is gone!

  2. Well Mr. H the doctor is 💯 correct. First he told you a true fact that happen and probably will and second your reaction States clearly that you know it can.

  3. “…and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.”

    Too right you had! A red and black notebook. I’m offended on your behalf. All that money he’s getting with private consultations and he writes on one of…those?

    I bet the tight arse used a really scratchy biro too? You probably didn’t need to see his writing, the frantic clawing of the ‘nib’ would have produced various longer wavelengths that could have been detected via your (specially attuned) lower jawbone.

    Moleskin and Bic Crystal, I say.

  4. “Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

    There are a lot of ‘gems’ from the House of Tudor in this one sentence.

    Control = tick (within pre-ascribed boundary conditions)

    Sheets = not.tick

    Sheets?!? You Heathen! You mean, you don’t DO duvets? Honestly! Frankly, I’m throwing in the towel at this one. Game. Changer

    How would I sleep under a gossamer thin sheet from Fortnums?

    Clue: I wouldn’t. That would make me crabby. There would be repercussions. Unfortunate repercussions.

    You can’t beat a nice feather-stuffed duvet.

    Or can you?

  5. Hi HG,

    Being able to express myself on your blog has caused me to realize that I was speaking and thinking like a Victim.

    I communicated to this person that he should not contact me again, and will ignore any attempts of his to get me to change my mind. I no longer have any interest or desire to visit him or talk to him because he is disrespectful and abusive. It makes no sense for me to be so concerned for him and his issues when he does not care about me and my issues. I will not allow myself to continue to be treated this way. People like him make me feel gross.

    There is no more “unfinished business” with him. Thank you for your help!

    1. I don’t think so. Colin Firth’s characters usually aren’t. But the other guy…. definitely.

  6. HG if a MR takes the Empath Detector questionnaire, is it possible that the result will be that the MR is an empath since the information are coming from him/her.

  7. HG,

    I am very confused by some men who I have been in relationships.with I cannot understand or know sometimes if someone wants me to go away or stay. Sometimes it seems that all they want in sex. Is that what you are doing with women that you date? Is it all just for sex? You wrote that sex is boring, so maybe not. Or do you enjoy their company? Or both? I don’t get the impression from your writings that you necessarily enjoy knowing the women you date, or do you? You seem very fond of your girlfriend who you have referred to as “Shield Maiden”. I know you write about residual benefits, so is that what it is all about for you? That (residual benefits) does not apply with me. All I have to give is myself and I can’t imagine that is enough. Can you understand or explain what people like this are doing or wanting from me? What is going on?? Your input would be very valuable.

    Thank you very much.

    1. I am not dating anybody. I am in a relationship.

      It is clear you need assistance in unravelling what is happening and much of this depends on whether this person is a narcissist. I recommend you organise a Narc Detector Consultation and from that we can ascertain if he is a narcissist and if so I can then explain what is happening.

      1. HG,

        I don’t care much about this person. He IS a narcissist. I have unfinished business with him.

        The only man who I have ever really loved is my ex-husband.

        1. Thank you for offering some help in the form of Narc Detection, HG.

          I know that this man is a narcissist because of many things, mostly because he makes me feel awful. Also, many examples of his behavior directed at myself and others in his life (who deserved his best treatment). Whether or not this particular person is a narcissist is not a mystery to me. I DO feel compassion for him (and YOU, even though you may not want or need it) .

          Maybe one day I will get to go out there to talk with him and see my (his) doggie, the Notorious R.I.T.A. and his three beautiful daughters. I have no intention of causing any harm to him or anyone else (when I said “unfinished business”, it could have sounded otherwise).

          Key Fact – this person has been EXTREMELY disrespectful towards me and I cannot forget that..

          I appreciate you and this blog of yours very much.

  8. No, no, nooooo, Edward is not a narc!!! That’s like saying the prince in any Cinderella version / movie is a narc!!
    :/

    Multiple orgasms: for one, I think some guys know how to fuck, and some don’t. And then there are narcs, who enjoy keeping them from us, like my most current narc.

      1. Even though the guy has a lot of social justice activism and does support a lot of causes, poor Richard Gere seems so ‘flat’ many times, he’s a bit like ‘mr Big’ from Sex and the city. Those facial expressions.
        Many marriages to celebrities and very young women.
        What is that all about?
        He seems so cold.
        Sorry, can’t make out anything else but that Richard Gere is a narc.

        1. The ever lovely Mr Gere once had a gerbil removed from his rectum. The internet says it so and I believe it!

      2. MB: Hollywood must have a great laugh at how they deceive us with products like the movie Pretty Woman. Gym Time!!!!!!! Snow soldier today: White scoop net female t-shirt, light gray camouflage workout pants, black trainers and white socks and white cap and black workout gloves. and green camo sweater tied around my waist or gray sweater (not sure which sweater yet). Reading a little more HG Tudor and then will head out to the gym. Gym Time< MB!!!! I went Sunday, and now I am going today in a little while this afternoon/evening today: Tuesday.

        1. WokeAF, Edward Lewis. Richard Gere’s character in Pretty Woman. The first narc I fell for. He helped tenderize me! I didn’t mean Richard Gere although he probably is a narc too.

          1. If I could take all copies of that film the world over and shove them in a pit and burn them, believe me, I would.

            It plays into the trope that all damaged females want to be rescued by the ultimate white knight. THIS is how we keep on being ‘captured’. It’s sick.

            There are no ‘knights’. There are, however, monumental predators.

  9. HG,
    I know, I should just ignore him, but aside from that:
    If a narc hypothetically wants to punish me by not giving me sex, but talks about wanting to be friends, … and is all charming, but not getting close physically ANYMORE …
    after complaining that I had said I didn’t trust him ….
    … and if he had before played subtle games, such as NOT making me come, etc. ….
    And if he had dated other girls, while lying to my face about it when asked directly …
    What would be the best revenge on him, aside from ignoring him / going no contact?
    This is a serious question.

      1. HG I read your book Revenge while my ET was still very high, but taking revenge would’ve been just too much work so I didn’t bother. However reading about the pillars of narcissism was a massive part of my understanding .

  10. Just becoming familiar with this site and the blogs. I read this hearing my Xs voice as he could have written the same were he as articulate. He could control me from hundreds of miles away….granting and withholding, as if disobedience would cost me any future pleasure forever. Fortunately or unfortunately, I got out alive and he died. No one has come close to what he gave me in these 2.5 years since.

  11. Hi HG,

    This is hilarious!!

    I had a similar / dissimilar telephone conversation with an ex-boyfriend a day or two before you posted this article. I would like to share..

    To give background – I have mentioned this person before. He lives 3000 miles away from me and we have not seen each other in over 4 years. We met around 5 years ago and I lived with him out there for 6 months before I left. During the last 4 years, we have texted and/or talked sporatically. I cannot remember the last telephone conversation we had before this recent one:

    A phone conversation that lasted over an hour, covered many subjects and somehow made its way to this. Basically, he was asking me if I have problems with this and with that (very personal female stuff), to which I responded, “You tell me. You lived with me. You know me. If there is something wrong with me, why do you continue to call me from 3000 miles away, more than four years later?” Right.

    For some reason, he still won’t make a viable plan to pick me up at the airport on whatever day he chooses (I would make the trip). I am not sure, but I think he is sulking because I did not send him pictures that he wants. I told him that he should not have erased the pictures that I gave him previously and should just see me in person. He is balking and he has ghosted on me again. Oh, well. I think this is all really weird. He took the conversation down a dark alley, also. Any thoughts on this?

    Great subject matter for conversation. Thanks!

      1. Hi BonnieLou,

        His four grandparents were Apache, Mexican, Spanish and Portuguese (as far as he knows)

        I did have a boyfriend once who told me he was Egyptian and Indian (the country India)..

        Why do you ask? So curious .

        Also, HG, do you have any thoughts to share with us on this?? Thank you!

          1. I can’t reply to your “did he walk like one” comment…but it made me laugh out loud!! You have a great sense of humour HG😊👍

          1. Oh my gerrrddd HG! I thought the same thing as well! The lead singer of the Bangles was Hot AF!

    1. Feel for you. I (at a very low point) entertained this kind of relationship. He was a LV.

      I want to say, very gently to you that you need to GOSO and then a NC. You do not need this kind of panjadram in your precious life.

      We only have one. Make it the best for you and then everything else will fall into place.

  12. “Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?” 😂😂

    HG, I await the release of the good doctors book.

    Geesh. reading this almost woke up the dead.😊🍒

  13. The best sex I have ever had has been with myself. It is a fascinating story of lust, longing and loneliness. Just don’t let your cats watch. And put a sheet over the birdcage at least.

    1. I take it back. The best sex I have ever had has been with Michael Fassbender. Granted, I was alone when it happened, but it still counts. God, I love Northern Ireland.

  14. I had complete control as a child. My parents were like my children. I remember thinking at a young age “I’m in charge of this family”. I supported them emotionally.
    I did whatever I felt…totally free. I’m happy for my childhood.
    Now I love how the grandiose Narcs control my life (my copdendent traits?). The MMR says things like “go get some rest” and I’ll say “I already did” and he’ll say it again “Go get some rest. Go to bed”. Things like this. “You don’t dress warm enough” (an ongoing thing). Selecting where we go and organising it. Talking to everyone so I don’t have to. Just taking charge of everything. Including my life, which I can run very well. It makes me feel safe and relaxed.

    1. Whitney: Safe and relaxed. I got it. This is real, girl. If I could have this for a few years, at least, I think I could balance out more, just like this as you said: [`Selecting where we go and organising it. Talking to everyone so I don’t have to. Just taking charge of everything. Including my life, which I can run very well. It makes me feel safe and relaxed`]. You want heels? No problem. Pink instead of red lipstick? Done. Light clothing versus dark clothing? Of course. Nude polish versus french manicure? Coming right up. Why did you wait so long before saying so? Hair in updo versus down? My pleasure. Football rather than baseball? No problem, let me put on my baseball hat. Who cares about some of these preferences? I do not. You want it, I got it. Makes my decision making a whole lot easier, Whitney. And after a while, we could share the control more if he so desired. I feel like crying, Whitney. Do I have my own personality? Of course I do, and part of my personality desires someone like this. And of course I would like to make a few small requests of my own, that I sure would not be an issue. For example, ……nah….no examples at this time. But, if I could find a guy like this, that did not see me as someone to destroy to feed his pathos, of course, and he was on my side, against the entire world, I would not ask for anything else, really.

      1. PSE
        Your comments here resonated deeply with me.
        This is a raw point for me:
        If I could find a man that I’m attracted to (respect, admire and could love)..”one that did not see me as someone to destroy…and he was on my side, against the entire world, I would not ask for anything else, really”.

        I’m easily pleased.

        It should never be underestimated the power that a man has to unlock sexual pleasure in us when he makes us feel safe and protected first.

        A Sexy Protector.
        Top of my wishlist.

        1. I also desired a safety net. I’ve been struggling and pulling every reserve I have within me for many years to keep myself and my kids stable financially, emotionally, every other way
          I’m pretty sure that’s why i continued w a couple of my narcs. They gave the illusion of having my back

          Have since realized that life gives you exactly what you need in order to evolve . It’s tailor- made for you.
          One might get someone that makes them feel safe but then life will throw other things at them to challenge that disposition.
          Especially for empaths that are truth seekers of course.

          I went within to find the scared exhausted part of the character that wanted to be saved, and embraced it, and made a decision to have faith in life‘s bigger picture, and to completely surrender to the fact that I sometimes feel exhausted and scared and except it as WHAT IS.
          No resisting it, no running from it, no trying to change it.

          I no longer desire someone to make me feel safe.

          That’s my experience and if it’s helpful to you or anyone then that’s awesome

          1. Woke: You are right. It is easy to forget to not be thankful, in a world that is constantly pushing what is available if you just want it bad enough, `they` say. I remember living through the 911 trade towers attack, and also Hurricane Sandy, and also during the last major Blackout. I was so happy to just have a place to live and food and clothing…for quite a while, on the East Coast of the U.S. So, it is good to be reminded, that many of us have more than what the rest of the world combined has. Including when we have pretty good health on top of the basics. And not running from war, or plagues or political overthrows and failed currencies. I rather you remind me here, than a major disaster reminds me. Thank you. I will reflect.

          2. This is a very powerful post WaF. I think you are on the right track.

            Well done you!

          3. PSE not only is gratitude wonderful for one’s inner state

            But I find most ppl are resisting what IS.
            Including their defects.
            As soon as we realize, oh, I’m prideful, oh I go to victim mentality, oh I get jealous, oh I feel insecure
            Ppl jump to either deny , or resist, or CHANGE it. (Change is resisting also)

            I advocate ACCEPT it. SEE it, and kept eyes open for when it comes to the surface.

            when you really SEE THROUGH something, and recognize it happening- it loses power.

            Then it dissipates
            And a new mode of functioning will appear naturally
            Bc as they say , nature abhors a vacuum 😆
            You can even offer a new go-to , like gratitude, when you identify the old go-to popping up, and don’t know what to think in it’s place. But I’ve found just seeing it and allowing it drains a lot of its power

            And I’ve just lost track of why I’m typing this ha
            So I’ll trust it’s value and leave it

          4. Oh yeah!
            Ok I remembered – wanting a safety net
            That , energetically, has me living in a state of WANTING.
            I saw it, I accepted it as it is , i let it be , but had awareness of it
            Then it went away.
            It wasn’t a healthy desire. It was a desire that screams “I’ll give my power to you if you just do THIS”

            And that attracts narcs

      2. Princess Super Empath you have so much personality. Your personality cannot be blunted!

        You should find an empath man. They are caring in an even better way. I paired with one before the grandiose Midranger took over. At a social sport, me and the Empath were a pair for months. He would take care of my belongings. At the party he made sure I was having fun. He cared for my feelings. There is nothing more attractive than love and emotion.

        The Empath left me the moment the Midranger took over. Now the only one rivaling the Midranger is another Narc. I should have picked the Empath!

        1. Whitney and Carolyn. This song played in the Gym Today: `Something Just Like This.`

          I’ve been reading books of old
          The legends and the myths
          Achilles and his gold
          Hercules and his gifts
          Spiderman’s control
          And Batman with his fists
          And clearly I don’t see myself upon that list
          But she said, where’d you wanna go?
          How much you wanna risk?
          I’m not looking for somebody
          With some superhuman gifts
          Some superhero
          Some fairytale bliss
          Just something I can turn to
          Somebody I can kiss
          I want something just like this. ~~~~ Coldplay, The Chainsmokers

          1. Renarde are you talking to me? Don’t be sorry, I love it! So grateful for your fascinating insights. Why do you doubt he was an Empath?
            Because he took care of my belongings? Is that controlling? The Midrangers do the same. They start handling my wallet and phone, taking care of my car, etc.
            You are beautiful.

          2. Yes, I was talking to you.

            You are very kind, on numerous fronts.

            This exchange was a week or so back? Had to refresh the ‘little grey cells!’ Yeah. I need to be very careful I dont project my own rampant cynicism on people. I’ve noticed that I do this. Apologies.

            Someone up thread said ‘But where are the Male empaths? They do exist. Pretty sure that my GD maternal was one. I’m sure I had one as a boss. I remember two I met at Uni and one became a mate but we sadly lost touch. He was a card.

            It’s just it’s really rare. And unfortunately, they are the target of bullying in my perception. Ring led by the unaware narcs who then rope in norms. Its tragic.

            So because of how society places little to no importance on Male emotions, it’s much more likely they repress and bury with catastrophic results. At least females are largely expected to be emotional.

            Hope this makes sense?

            Anyway. Thank you for your words.

            You’re beautiful too. X

          3. Renarde
            Thank you so much. I feel worthless and heartbroken because of the Narc, and your words made me happy and proud.

            I’m not sure how to keep track of comments without manually looking.

            I agree male Empaths are rare. Females are empathic to care for babies and children. Men are designed to kill animals.

            My dad is an Empath or Codependent. I have at least 5 Empath male friends who I’ve had deep conversations with and we’ve supported each other. I have zero interest in Narc or Normal friends… they bore and disgust me. I want someone true and genuine, with good values, and we can share our deepest emotions and experiences and laugh and cry together.

          4. Awww! I’m glad my words made you happy!

            I do look out for these unicorns. I’m happy to associate with narcs as long as they dont attempt to try to manipulate me (they try). Like you, I’m not drawn to normals. I find them somewhat ‘flat’. Just not my cup of tea.

            The minute I realised that the only person I could rely on was myself, things started to change.

            I’m sure you appreciate this. When awareness comes (and for me it came in stages and is still ongoing) I was STAGGERED how naby times I’d be functioning as a non consensual NISS.

            It was horrible, truly horrible to remove access to me from people I’d known 20 odd years. The worst part was removing the neutral and empathic people who through lack of understanding had snared narcs. My behaviour in removing ALL would abruptly played into my exs smear that I’m unhinged, depressed and crazy.

            But what could I do? HG is absolutly correct. The network was deep and vast.

            Very funnily enough, there us a man in that group who I strongly believe is the son of a MR. Since the blanket removal, someone using his name, maybe him, has attempted to make contact twice through social media. Again, what could I do but ignore? If it was him, his unawares makes him utterly compromised.

            If by some fluke, he had attained his own awareness (and this WOULD be an ally as once you’re at a certain level you can never be corrupted, even by a G), he would have come and found me in person. Because that’s what I would do.

            Anyway. Ramble. To have an empathic friend would be marvellous. I just dont have one in my matrix I can trust.

          5. Renarde: you are articulate, intelligent, beautiful, interesting, kind (and more!)

            That is brave to remove people you’d known 20yrs. Good for you. How are you doing?

            You need not care what anyone thinks. If they love you, they love you. They will accept you. If they don’t love you, you don’t need them.
            And remember: Someone’s capacity to love is a reflection on themselves- not you.

            The son of a Midranger? Was the Midranger your ex? And his son tried to contact you?

            Anyone would be extremely lucky for your friendship. You will find Empaths worthy of your friendship.

          6. I’m doing a lot better. I’m still recovering from an ALMIGHTY shock from a month ago. I’m still not able to talk about it openly. I think what was important is that it didn’t plunge me into despair.

            Yeah that friendship group. Started out as us females meeting then in a very weird twist 4 out if 5 of us went on to marry men who were already there at uni.

            This guy is the husband of one of the girls, not my ex on the face of it. I only met this guy once but he was probably a middle.

            Of course, anyone could’ve been behind that avatar. Its crap but I have the comfort of knowing I behaved utterly impeccably and didn’t even attempt to remove the smear on my name.

            The smear that everyone believed be cause the truth that they grossly let down someone so close to maintain the facade, would shock others at their rank hypocrisy. They have things to lose.

            You’ve been so kind. Thank you x

          7. Renarde xx these people sound like idiots. It must have been traumatising.
            If they believe smears about you they are unwise, sheep, unempathetic, dullards, boring. I can picture it.

            That’s right you can only control your reactions, and you can be proud about behaving impeccably.

            That is insanely impressive, the fractal universe 😲😲😲😲 Go Go beautiful Super Empath Renarde! These idiots are behind you and you are free for your incredible life!

          8. Ahh well…of course the super ironic thing is that they are all of a good standard of education, one even joined me and ex in the lofty heights of the world of the post grad! He’s OK. (This also proves that just like an MOT, the cert is only good on the day it was issued.)

            It must have been perplexing and bewildering for the norms and empaths in there. But they were much to much under the thrall of the people (ALL WOMEN! Other genders are available) who were holding the reins.

            I do have a slight confession. I didn’t behave as utterly impeccably as I would have wished to. After ‘The Great Cull’, a particularly odious female ‘dullard’ tried to have a pop, or warn me off. One of the two. Anyway, I’m sorry, Narc Trait rose rapidly to the forefront and after I had called her out on her utter rank hypocrisy (she had other group members in tears before now), I just might have said that how she got her degree remains one of the Universes’ great unsolved mysteries.

            And then back to fractals and the Mandelbrot. Dullard was interviewed by the Radio Times and admitted shoplifting in Waitrose of all places. Other frenemy worries about the cost of replacing the roof on her manor whilst her close friend of twenty years is a struggling single mum who at times didn’t have enough money to put electricity on the meter.

            Both of these examples show narcissism at it’s worst. In my view it’s utter hypocrisy and utter stupidity. Coupled with a monumental lack of awareness. The smart and aware people would have seen the way it was going to go years ago and get closer to me in order to disseminate information at it’s purest source. Which in one case was precisely what happened.

            We are all complicit in this because we are all part of the system. You cannot change the system from within. You need a new system in order to do that. The harder you push back against the system, you get a progressively harder and harder response. This in essence is the nature of fractals in which I perceive it at this moment. It’s why I’ve become obsessed with them, The mathematics behind it.

            Until about three months ago, the only contact with fractals I had was in clubs as part of visuals. I saw it as something that largely academic (and soft drug taking) males got very intrigued with, I just didn’t get the point other than they were beautiful. Part of the counter culture acid revolution in the UK in the early nineties. We grew up with it.

            Thing is, I had been told all of this many times before. Whether it was PN, or ex, I was being told, very loudly and very clearly to get out of the system itself. PN manifested this (clumsily) by imposing isolation. But I still had to interact with it because that’s what I had been programmed to do. Career, house, children etcs, Ex wanted to physically remove us by going off grid. Again, I refused. That is however, precisely what ultimately happened.

            I through other circumstances, was physically impelled to leave ‘the system’. Then I had to emotionally quit it before finally mentally de-linking.

            I have no idea of what I am saying to you is understood. If it’s not then it’s me. Hope you get it?

            I am however, greatly enjoying our conversation and I appreciate your support so very much x

          9. Dearest Renarde
            I’m impressed and in awe, but I don’t understand fractals. It’s relaxing to study something logical. It’s a respite from emotions.
            It feels good to think about the bigger picture too and dissociate.

            They were bullies and it’s impressive you confronted it!!! Most people don’t have the guts to do that. That’s how bullies are successful… people are afraid of being ostracised next.

            I feel sunken and lethargic. I don’t know if it’s heartbreak, or the break of an addiction. I’ve been harassing HG about it.
            I talked to 3 friends about this man (a MMR Somatic according to the the Narc detector). They diminish him and say all sorts of things- he’s a demon, a lowlife, narcissist, you can tell he’s crazy from across the room, I need an exorcist etc. I feel better to talk because it’s fulfilling my addiction.

          10. I keep thinking the MMR is an Empath so my friend sent me a video “10 Signs a Psychopath is Targeting You”, to explain his kindness.

            I wonder if he’s a Psychopath? The one who choked me during sex. He looked like a Demon during sex. He’s the most charming and likable one yet, by far.

            I found out he grabbed the throat of a Lesser narc. Because this guy slapped his face “jokingly”.

          11. No- he’s not a psychopath. He was caring and Empathetic. See how my brain is spazzing out. I am confused.

          12. Renarde, “you cannot change the system from within. You need a new system in order to do that.”

            Exactly!! Needs to be done outside of said system, a new one that can run alongside, and shows t is better than the current one.

            Now I just need some more clever and lateral thinking to help implement that….. said someone who doesn’t know where to start as every *idea* has been rejected within 30mins of that idea cropping up 🙄🤨😭

        2. Whitney: I asked HG about the dullness one feels after removing oneself from the Narcissist. HG says our Emotional Thinking HIJACKS the dullness feelness that we feel post the Narcissist and MAGNIFIES the feeling to the point that we actually consider going back to the Narcissist for relief. The emotional thinking is addicted to the Narcissist. The Emotional Thinking will hijack any feeling we have and magnify the feeling in order to try to convince us to go back to the Narcissist for relief. Do Not Listen To Any Thought That Says Going Back To The Narcissist Will Provide You With Relief. The Emotional Thinking Is ADDICTED to the Narcissist and will con us to go back to him by any means it can get a grip on. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING IS ADDICTED TO THE NARCISSIST. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING ERRONEOUSLY THINKS THAT GOING BACK TO THE NARCISSIST IS SO GOOD TO DO. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING IS WRONG. THE GOLDEN PERIOD IS GONE. DEVALUATION AND DEGRADATION WILL AWAIT YOU. Whitney, the Emotional Thinking is an addict with anxious eyes and desperate for a hit, and is racing around to find the Narcissist. Do not feed it. Fight through the natural feeling of ennui. Do not let the Emotional Thinking make more if it than it is. It takes time to recover yourself. You will slowly lighten up day by day.

          1. Omg. Thank you so much PSE. I feel Like I’m cured from reading that. You are a great communicator PSE.
            I will copy it and reread it. I’ve been crying in bed because someone at my sport told me he lost his job and was bullied. He is a small Asian man, he labored 12hr days then came to the sport. He said I’m so sad Whitney, my heart hearts. And he said it’s a hard life. Im profoundly sad. This sadness, as well as my listless confusion. It was too much.
            I will slowly lighten. Thank you PSE you are an angel.

          2. SPE..
            ADDICTED TO THE NARCISSIST. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING ERRONEOUSLY THINKS THAT GOING BACK TO THE NARCISSIST IS SO GOOD TO DO. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING IS WRONG. THE GOLDEN PERIOD IS GONE. DEVALUATION AND DEGRADATION WILL AWAIT
            Thank you for sharing this. answers why I feel dead inside. I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. And the days I wake up not feeling dead inside, I wake up very anxious. My ET must be going thru withdrawal.
            What a process it is just to reclaim yourself.

          3. Whitney and Kim e. I and MB discussed this in dept with HG Tudor on an article somewhere on Narcsite. It is just shocking how treacherous the Emotional Thinking is! The E.T. has no pride and no shame and will do just about anything to drag us back to the Narcississt. The Emotional Thinking is an addict for Narcissism. How do I know this? One time I asked H.G. what is the purpose of our Emotional Thinking? Not our natural and good emotions, but, Emotional Thinking? You know what HG said? The Emotional Thinking works to keep us engaging with and addicted to Narcissists. How about That? Unbelievable. The cunning and clever and insidious and shameless enemy inside of us is Emotional Thinking. And it will hijack anything and any feeling and any person to get us back to the Narcissist: It is his birthday! It is an anniversary. Maybe he needs his toothbrush back that he left over. His favorite series is back on TV. I cooked too much food, I wonder if he is hungry. He lost his job, maybe he will die because he lost his job. I just want to say hello to his sister, and he has her number, etc. IT NEVER ENDS with the sneaky and conniving Emotional Thinking which is always, always, always always, always, always , trying to drag us back to the Narcissists. Fight Back! Shut it down! Once we Know about Emotional Thinking, we better learn how to reign it in. Emotional Thinking is not our friend, but a Traitor. It is about the moment, and pro Narcissists and at end a TRAITOR that will not be there for us, when it is time to un-pry the pieces of ourselves that are trapped on the Wheels of Misery. Again.

          4. Dearest PSE thank you ❤️
            I am so fucked in the head

            I just want to know WHY am I inherently addicted to Narcissists (Emotional Thinking).
            WHY do I have Emotional Thinking (to Addict me to Narcissists)
            I am so confused.

            I understand why Codependents are addicted to Narcissists. HG’s magnificent book “Chained”. The Codependent feels empty inside and fills the void by living through Narcs’ facade.

            The first Narc, the LMR Somatic. I lived and breathed him. To me it was Heaven on Earth to be in his presence. I stared at him in Awe when he spoke. I needed to be close range to his beautiful face and pale blue eyes and watch his monologue rants!

            Two since him, and they have such a presence and Magnetism.
            Why Am I Not Good Enough for Them?

            Because I hold my emotion inside? I don’t tell them how much I love them, because I don’t want to scare them? I keep my feelings to myself.

            I built so many things before the LMR Somatic. I cannot focus on my things now, for the past 3 years.

            The Narcs need me? They do not. I need them. Who is empty, it is me! Not them. They keep with their lives, and I cannot.

          5. My friend is now saying the one who choked me is a PSYCHOPATH.
            I would like to define him as that.
            I still don’t believe he’s a Narc. When I believe it I will go No Contact.
            You don’t know if you haven’t met him yourself.

          6. Whitney
            Wtf? If someone chokes you they don’t have to be a narcissist for you to go no contact.

          7. Whitney. We do not need Narcissists. It is an attraction because they are lacking in emoting and we emote a lot. Once we realized they are Narcissists now, we have the advantage. When we know, we go. WE Get Out and Stay Out. GOSO> We can control ourselves. Any time we feel disrespected, we move away.

          8. Whitney: There are 2 types of magnificence in a man. 1) The way he is magnificent in general and 2) the way he is magnificent in the way he treats you with concern and respect and caring, etc. In a personal relationship, how he treats you has to be the magnificence first of all. If he is magnificent beyond that, it is a bonus. You. You. You. How does the person treat you has to always be in the forefront of your mind in an interpersonal relationship.

          9. Whitney: A man that chokes You and a man that wants to blow Your mind out with drugs is not magnificent in the way he treats You and thinks about You and the preservation of Your body and Your mind. Such men are slow killers to You. Those are bad batches of men for You. Whether or not they are Narcissists, or Narcissistic or just Not `Nice.` Whitney, Return Such Men To Sender immediately. And start shopping for men at: Boundaries R Us. Whitney, make a checklist for Yourself about how You want to be treated and what You need from a man. Men make checklists about women all the time. And they categorize us and they decide upon how they will treat us and what they need from us such as: Women that are Wife Material, Wifelike, Mistress, Girlfriend, Friend with Benefits, Dirty Little Secret, One Night Stand, Women to choke and drug up and bind and torture, and punch, and even to kill, etc, and women to respect and love and nurture and treat magnificently. Therefore, You Whitney, YOU, YOU, YOU, pick Your category for Yourself first, regarding what respectable category You will be found, and if any man does not treat You accordingly, send him packing and out the door and let the door Hit him in a magnificent manner, on his way out.

          10. Dear PSE thank you 💖 the LMR didn’t want me to take drugs, we were talking about esctacy so he said he thought I’d be crazy on esctacy. It was just a devaluing comment- he saw me as unpredictible, over emotional, hyper, etc, so he thought esctacy would have a big impact on me compared to other people.

          11. Thank you PSE for explaining the attraction is because they are lacking in emoting and we emote a lot. Thank you for explaining the Magnificence. That’s the right way to think.
            I feel worthless for the Narc to not treat me right. But I know he would not treat anyone right.

            Narc Angel he choked me during, sex not hard. I thought maybe he was trying to do S&M and thought I’d like it. I attribute the nicest possible explanation to people’s behaviour. A Narc told me I do that.

          12. Well like I think about my kids dad- who’s shitshow whirlwind thru life as a victim narc has him next to homeless every other year-
            Sorry he’s sad , but he made his life choices the same as the rest of us and I’m not paying for his bad choices just to make him a little less sad.

  15. Hmm. Well, one thing that puzzled me about MRN was that we had this very, very intense attraction, and our sexual banter was constant and excellent. I have no doubt that he loved my body and that we loved having sex with each other. Yet in reality, he was not the best lover I’ve ever had (I do think I was the best that he’d ever had). The sex wasn’t bad. It just didn’t blow my mind. Maybe because he was a cerebral and really was somewhat insecure? I would have to reassure him that there was nothing wrong – and there wasn’t really anything wrong. It just wasn’t exceptional.

    He had plenty of tricks to control me but he didn’t really use sex as a weapon, at least when we were together. He didn’t make me beg. Nor did he withhold. He was never violent or rough, though he was direct and dominant. He would be distant of course and make plans that wouldn’t come to fruition but he was most normal when we were actually together and in bed.

    HG, might it be that only Greaters use sex in the way you describe? Also, I think there is something other than the actual physical sexual act that accounts for the addiction – it is chemical and has nothing to do with the narc’s talent in bed.

    1. No, all schools use sex to control – the manner by which it manifests depends on cadre and school. Some of the behaviours described in the article may well be used by others, but not all schools.

    2. SMH

      I’ve been thinking about this one for a while now. Yes, I do believe that there is something else, it’s energy. Contagion. Not all narcs have the ability.

    3. Also, PN is a cerebral. Aware. I had a convo with mum last summer about sex. She said he was rubbish. I believe he is her only sexual partner. She then went on to talk about orgasms. Apparently, she has one every time. This shocked me somewhat but what she said next left me speechless.

      ‘Oh yes Ren, every time. Well, you’re here aren’t you?’

      My mouth just kept on opening and closing. Like a fish.

      Poor woman, having that fat, disgusting pig on top of her.

  16. My mid range narcissist wasn’t very skilled in bed. He was skilled before bed (sweet talking, dirty talking) but the sexual act was mechanical. Of course he thought he was great. He even thought I had an orgasm when I didn’t. I told him I hadn’t and he was shocked. He was 100% sure I had. Then he started blame me like there was something wrong with me because in his mind I SHOULD have after all superb things he did (in his opinion).

    Now I think that maybe other narcissist’s victims are too shy to tell them they do not orgasm with them and that’s why the narcissist still thinks he is great.

      1. Wait! That’s wrong! My somatic was good at everything except giving head.
        Naturally why would he be good at giving head? That’s only for me he didn’t see benefit from it I guess

        My MMR elite however it was fantastic it had. But that’s because he fuelled from my reaction.

        I will correct myself and say that the only time I felt like the sex was mechanical was with the cerebral

        1. My guy refused a tiny kiss…refused oral to me but got his from me throughout a 3 year span…massage…dinner and more for him, but no flower or a coffee for me…to hell with being kind to a narc
          Also he refused ever a compliment to my beauty…only to brag on his beautys before me or present…
          Shame on me
          Shame on you A.k.D.
          Why ?

          1. Yes mine would never ever compliment my looks but would talk about his ex being cute , or tell other women they look nice etc right in front of me. I wish I’d known what I know now bc I wouldn’t have reacted .

  17. Can I ask if Dr E and Dr O will read this post?

    I’m not sure why he made you uncomfortable about wanting to be questioned of your intimate sexual stuff by another doctor.

    1. They may have done, but probably not.
      He didn’t, he irritated me because I wanted to talk about sex with Dr O and not him.

      1. Sorry I was a bit unclear, should have written: I’m not sure why he tried to make you uncomfortable

        I mean that Dr E seemed a bit odd, to me, in this post.

        I get the feeling he tried to push you to talk about these issues with him , even though you had asked for Dr O.

        I feel he overstepped your boundaries. Is all.

          1. I didn’t realize Dr. E was a Narcissist, I remember in one of your Q&As you stated the good doctors where more empathic and it pleased you that they seem to want to help you. What about Dr. O and are they still your therapists?

          2. Sounds abusive, and touché for you HG

            You seem to have been with Doc therapy group for at least four years.

            Let me se, so Dr O doesn’t know that Dr E is an abusive person?

            Maybe Dr E is selfaware and therefore generally dangerous.

            Dr O and some others, like Dr I, aren’t really aware that they haven t made you feel like opening up.

            Maybe you could leave these guys. Try out a new chapter. See what happens.

          3. Re: you have to be mindful of who is listening
            They games truly are always being played. I would be interested to read some more of these anecdotes

          4. He won’t become more self-aware from his interactions with you, because his narcissism is such that he truly believes he is a good person? Which means he is a mid Ranger?

          5. If he is a narcissist, a mid ranger who tries to fix your narcissism while he has no idea what he is, how you can respect him as a doctor? You already know he is lower in hierarchy than you because you are the Greater. So I guess these sessios may be fun for you because you can play with his narcissism and collect some fuel but I doubt it can help you in any way. Comparing to you he is just a stupid ignorant. It seems like a waste of time, I wouldn’t attend sessions when I do not respect knowledge and skills of the teacher or therapist and when I know more about topic then them.

          6. Hello Gab,

            1. I do not respect him.
            2. Yes I gather fuel and I enjoy playing games.
            3. I attend the sessions because of the residual benefits that are provided to me.

  18. Forgot to expand on the element of giving up control during sex. Some like to be dominant some like to be submissive. Ive always loved being submissive but that doesnt mean i like giving up control in my life. That is more for fun and like acting out a role. I love the element of fun with sex and its healthy to be able to try new things and not make sex so serious but it does become very serious with a narcissist. They turn sex into a heavy and serious matter. At first its the most enjoyable fun liberating experience but then it turns into the most upsetting trapped experience. Eventually you become appathetic and numb to it. It means nothing which it was all along.

  19. I love this doctor E bc he has narcissists figured out! Towards the end he delivers a jolt of reality which triggers fear then fury. Fear triggers anger in many especially a narcissist.
    Hes right no one has complete control over life. Things change continuosly. Tragic events, sickness, disease. To a narcissist this is shattering bc they lose control and control is their identity. Its like declawing a cat. You disarm them but it is true. What dr E needs to realise tho and maybe he does is that many narcs would just evolve and use other tactics aside from sex if they became impotent. Theyd focus more on the psychological aspects.
    I think dr O was preferred bc she was a woman and it was sensed or believed she was attracted to HG and that means the potential to manipulate and try to extract info about her to aid in that.
    The way it was written is exactly how my narc has been. Hes perfected what ive wanted and has given and taken away but in the process its become less and less effective. Like taking an antibiotic too much you develop a tolerance to it and it no longer works.
    The knowledge i have about npd combined with the cycle of giving and taking away has really made sex meh and not really worth anything anymore. Id much rather watch porn and masterbate. Where i do struggle is the codependancy in other areas of the relationship. That imo is more potent! Thats where narcissists morph and will just move on to another area of weakness.
    I think a somatic would struggle most with the loss of sex as a tool. Sex is very powerful but it loses its power the more its taken away and given back.

    1. Love you Chihuahuamum (and my the way, I will be extremely disappointed if you don’t own Chihuahuas!)

      I believe you are wrong on this one. Dr E being a fucking boring MR will possibly have had glimpses of his own narcissism but not enough for him to become aware himself.

      So, every time he attempts to ‘analyse’ HG is a riot for HG.

      I daresay he scribbled in his notes that Our Dark Lord had a sexual fascination for Dr O. I bet Dr O is as smart as a whip with the usual Empath buffoonery thrown in. Poor women. But surely listening to you HG has weaponised her as a residual benefit of being around you? Or is she that closed off?

      1. Hi renarde…i do own 1 chi baby 🙂
        No i think dr e has HG pegged! He knew why HG preferred discussing with dr o the topic at hand. Furthermore he triggered fury in HG bc he knew his weaker areas and insecurities pertaining to lack of control in life which is a huge threat to a narcissist.

  20. I completely relate to the girlfriend in the article in a high position who wanted to relinquish control of herself, if only for a couple hours. This is my predicament. I am always in charge; always in complete control; always strong, assertive, aggressive and dominant, and I long for a man strong enough to overpower me. I believe no such man exists. It is the reason, despite being a beautiful feminine woman with many prospective boyfriends; and having had many offers of marriage, (I declined them all) that I remain unattached. So I am alone and comfortable this way, but still I search for a strong, powerful man to dominate me. I am difficult to control and dominate despite the fact that I want this. I want to be put over a man’s knee and spanked, but I will not willingly do this. He would have to overpower me and force it upon me; and be strong enough and smart enough to do it. I am intense, extreme, and passionate in whatever I do. I have my own self defense mechanisms, and it is not narcissism. I will not detail it here. I feel all emotions, including love and empathy, to the fullest, possibly expanded degree. Mr. HG Tudor is brilliant, insightful, and all knowing. Perhaps he already knows what it is. I feel a sense of release and relief just having admitted to this here.

    1. NJFilly. I agree with a lot of what you say, but modern society has broken many men. Well, I live in NYC and this city breaks men after around 37 years old or so, and the men realize that they can barely keep up with the basics of food, clothing and shelter, and therefore need a woman more as financial business partner instead of joyous intimate mate to enjoy life. And many women do not dream of one day being a financial enabler and stabilizer for a man. So there is a lot of animosity between men and women where I live. Maybe I am looking at an extreme occurrence, because of where I live, as well. I probably should move, but that is an entirely different subject, I think… Many men hide behind skirt now, as well. Saying women asked for power and now they have it and now women should just shut up about any other needs they may have. It is all so tiring. And many men have just gone the other way, as they call it. I think it is good to not saddle a man into a marriage that is not what you are looking for. And many men settle for women that will help pay the bills instead of women they really desire and but can not obtain. Fortunately women do have more of a choice to not settle or saddle, at least in the United States where I live. Many women do not have that choice. Man have joined this group.

      1. I don’t know… I think sex is so personal and so specific to the individual that the most important thing it takes between two people is: trust.

        You may think you want a man to totally dominate you but if they start controlling and dismissing your objections in the bedroom right away that is abuse. OR if they do what HG does and use it as a conditioning method to assert control..: that is also abuse. No one wants to be abused in the bedroom or anywhere else.

        NJJilly you say you want the man to just figure it out? I think that may be unrealistic… you need to express your desires to them. Otherwise how will they ever please you in the way you want? And perhaps in theory you want these things… but if you haven’t experienced them in real life yet… you don’t really know how you’d react.

        So it comes down to trust. Someone you can openly communicate with. And trust they will stop when you say stop etc.

        1. 007. By control, I do not mean abuse at all or some form of total domination that needs a `safe` word and all of that, so I am not destroyed in some way, and all that the way I hear people are participating in, all of that. I just want to throw this statement in to clarify myself in case the word `control` is now politically incorrect to use and it has negative connotations. I really can not keep up with all the reclassification of words and their connotations these days. To be clear, and generally speaking, the word Control, as I understand the word, has positive connotations, and out of control has negative connotations. If you were addressing me, in your first paragraph, I hope I cleared up what I meant. I never thought that intimate relations were supposed to be so difficult in the first place. It is possible that the easy use of birth control has also led to a lot of the complexity, when before, people were just overall thankful to be able to participate in the action. Who knows. People complicate their lives in so many waves.

        2. Yes, sex is personal and specific. To have sex used as a conditioning method outside the bedroom and as a method of control sounds desirable to me. To have a man so strong and so in control of me is my ultimate fantasy. I have some limited experience in this area, but I can’t always allow my mind to submit in the ways necessary for it.

          I did not say that I ‘want the man to just figure it out’. Although it could be a grey area, you can’t really do that when it comes to true control and domination. If I have to tell a man that I want to be dominated then I have already asserted my dominance by telling him what to do. You either have a dominant nature, or you don’t. Although a certain amount of trust should be involved, and I assume we all want our sexual prowess to be admired to a point, and it’s nice to have a sexual partner who is concerned with your pleasure; if you are seeking my approval and/or looking for me to set the tone and pace of our sexual interaction; then I am the dominant one immediately.

          I have had many sexual partners in my life and I experience this often. I usually end up taking the lead; because I can, but mostly because I have more confidence, I feel it is necessary, and I am very experienced. Often men ask me to tie them up and have my way with them. When this happens it literally disgusts me and I instantly loose all respect for the man. It’s not necessary for me to tie them up and have my way with them; they are already mentally tied, I can have my way and I do. But I don’t want this. When a man asks this of me it is such a turn off to me. I never have but I might actually tie the man up, and as I stated in my comment above, I would then leave him there. Or I would take my long beautiful hair, that is thick like a rope, and strangle him with it. (I apparently have another fantasy which involves strangling weak men. I will save that comment for another time).

          I very much enjoy sex; both as an activity and a topic of discussion.

          I apologize to Mr. HG Tudor if my comment was in some way inappropriate, or too long. Mr. HG Tudor you are so special and so unique. You are one of a kind.

      2. I don’t look to men for a ‘joyous intimate mate to enjoy life’. I would never financially enable a man. If he were to accept this; he would not be a man. But yes, an equal partnership with a man is my ideal situation. A man who is at least as smart and strong as me, if not more. They don’t exist.

        Men are no longer men. I sometimes despise weakness in people but particularly in men. Women have always had a certain amount of power; through the use of sex and otherwise. Men who claim that women have gotten what they asked for are making excuses for their own perceived inferiority and are useless.

        I stopped watching TV and movies about 20 years ago, for various reasons. Although I believe I might be interested in the movie 50 Shades of Grey; I have some personal reasons for not having seen it yet. The only show I will watch is Vikings. My favorite character used to be Ragnar, but now he’s dead. He was replaced in my mind by Bjorn. I love his intensity and I notice he rarely smiles. I am very in touch with my anger and I am not afraid of my own anger or other people’s anger. In fact, I find an angry exchange to be challenging and exhilarating. I also love any character with a tattoo across his face and/or neck. Yeah man. That does it for me.

        I have to laugh at your use of the term ‘saddled’ with regard to men, as possibly obviously, I am involved with horses. Although I am sure this is a sexual fetish between people I have never been involved in it. If a man were to allow me to physically saddle him I might do so. But then I would beat him and strangle him with the reins and leave him for dead.

          1. Interesting reply, HG.

            I also met a woman once who said she is strong, impulsive, dominant, that she’ll never marry again.

            She even asked me “do you think you would be able to handle me?”

            Waiting for the results here…

          2. Dearest HG: The book ,Some Prefer Nettles ,discusses a couple that hate each other and they have a son and they are discussing divorce, and their son watches. The book review says the book is heavy handed on old tradition and encroaching modern culture on Japan, including a lot about puppet theatre, and not done well as a mechanism, and she does not recommend because this book because it is overly heavy handed and dull. Review attached: https://youtu.be/on8hevlDnVo

          3. Can someone please tell me what this nettles talk refers to exactly? How does this work? Why?

          4. Lorelei

            Nettles can be used for many purposes from tea to the stinging sensation one feels when it touches your skin….hmmm reminds me of a video I saw when someone put them in the dryer with another cloths in dried them and the person put them on…..

          5. Twilight—is it permissible to wash and dry a shirt (gift) for the children’s father in nettles?

          6. I need to be more aggressive in general—I’m a total pushover. (Not always—I can turn it on) The problem is a lack of consistency with setting firm boundaries and not accepting bullshit. This has become about much more than a “bad marriage.” HG needs to teach me to tell people to F off and not care.

          7. Contrary to that reviewer, Nettles is actually one of his best novels. I have read all of his novels and this had the richest characterization and use of language. It has been years since I read it but I have recommended it to many and no one came back claiming it was heavy handed and dull. Read it for yourself.

          8. Lorelei: Broadly speaking: HG was saying he used nettles in intimacy in this post: I have heard of Nettle tea, very nourishing and often called stinging nettle, because the natural plant will sting one when handled, and I have read that Nettles are good to stimulate hair growth. I have not used nettles in any manner. Bibi mentioned a book with the Title: Everyone Prepares Nettles. I looked up what that title means, and it is from a Japanese Proverb: [“Every worm to his taste; some prefer to eat nettles.”] Lorelei, that proverb means everyone has their own taste, I read. And the book Bibi mentioned, broadly speaking, discusses the hatred of a couple for each other, as well the hate and love for old Japan and New Japan, and some have the taste for the old and some prefer the new, in the novel. In short, HG brought up Nettles and the word starting running around on this page.

          9. Lorelei: Correction: Book name: [ *Some Prefer Nettles* ] …Japanese Proverb: [“Every worm to his taste; some prefer to eat nettles.”] Lorelei, that proverb means everyone has their own taste, I read.

        1. NJFilly: I am completely overjoyed that the male gender exists. And I am thrilled with the fact that we can become intimate with them. And have fun with them, as well. I could not imagine life otherwise, at all. And I am not looking for more than just one of them. As far as the word, saddle, is concerned, that is funny. I didn’t mean it in YOUR sense as it pertains to horses, hahaha. I meant as burdening someone: “Saddle someone with something – Idioms by The Free Dictionary
          https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/saddle+someone+with+something
          To force one to deal with someone or something that proves to be a great burden.` NJFilly, Not ride him like he is a horse and then strangle him and leave him for dead, as you are saying. hahaha. In fact, men rarely misunderstand what I mean when I converse with them as well. Women often go up in flames when something is misunderstood, in my experiences. My goodness!

          1. I would not want to live in a world without men. I love men too. I have many male friends and acquaintances, and living on a farm and working around horses brings me in contact with a lot of men. I love their masculine energy and I love interacting with them.

            I understood what you meant. I was just making a joke. Perhaps I need to ‘rein’ in my intensity.

            You have a very positive, friendly energy. I like that and I appreciate that.

  21. Ok “BRILLIANT” with the control accuracy.
    Here is the next step:

    “CONTROL MASTERY” while “FULLY SURRENDERING”.

    Explore and augment the new dimensions within levels of human “AWARENESS” you have based your entire passion in with this concept.

    I am your opposite charge in electricity in terms of AC/DC. North Pole to South Pole.

    This is going to be very challenging “too” day the least, to put it mildly. (that is not a spelling or grammatical error.)

    Stand by please I look forward to, perhaps, being controlled.

    1. SL MCD, AC/DC as in Highway to Hell for sure. Are you selling viagra online? I don’t think HG is interested.

    2. Sometimes taking orders to stand by to take control? I need to try this on one of my narcissists.

  22. Even if you figure out the sex key code and get your victim addicted that does not compare to an encounter of love. With your techniques you produce, on both sides of the dyad, a creature longing for more for it will never be (deeply) satisfied. I see how this is to your advantage. But sex combined with a real and deep connection will satiate your partner’s heart and soul as well as yours and still get them “addicted”. I understand that you think you are not capable of that – that is loving – and it is indeed hard when you’ve never learned to trust. But then again, aren’t you capable of everything? If you want to be real elite you should learn to tap into those feelings hidden from you at any time you do or do not desire, with or without a fuel source around, only then will you be omnipotent. It would make you more autonomous and more powerful. Maybe in the end you’d even get something your mom never gave you.

  23. Yes! This: “I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

    I wouldn’t have understood it or believed it could be done without even being physically proximate except it happened to me. Repeatedly, to my delight and his. My fear is I’ll never have that heaven again. In fact, I know I never will. I’m still thankful that I’ve experienced it. Now I can die happy!

    1. MB—I don’t know what it’s remotely like to be involved with a normal and have a “safe pleasant connection” that would outweigh losing good sex. (Just being frank) Is the day to day so fulfilling that missing this key element is worth it? It creates a lack of harmony for you to quite an extent. I will say that I have had the full range—mediocre to excellent. At this point in life I won’t do a relationship with mediocrity (sex) but only because I’m not already tied down financially or will have kids with anyone etc. (I understand you have a multi-faceted situation) I wonder how this moral dilemma adds to keeping you displeased. I do not come with an opinion, just curious. I’m not even engaging with anyone in that way so I’m on my own path. In fact I was in a bar and I know I’m making progress because on the way to the bathroom that feeling of eyes on me was uncomfortable instead of welcomed. My views and possibilities are shifting. I was acutely aware of the unhealthy behavior associated with being looked at like food. It’s not enticing, it’s repulsive to me. Now if HG can eventually help me navigate what connecting with normal is like or where to begin! May never happen but if there’s no good sex—there will be no point.

      1. Lorelei, Having a steady, calm, predictable home life is a valuable asset to have. No anxiety. No wondering what mood he will be in. I have personal and financial freedom. He doesn’t tell me what to do, what to wear, who I can see, no controlling me whatsoever. What is that worth? I’ve never lived with a narc so I can’t answer that question. I can give up porn star sex for stability and support and somebody that loves me to go through life with. There IS sex, just not the chandelier-swinging, mind-blowing kind. Not a deal breaker. Narc sex would end completely at some point after becoming degrading. (Something I don’t have to worry about.) I’ve learned enough here to know it won’t last. I’d give up sex completely before I’d go through life being abused. No way could I live that way after having experienced my marriage.

        1. Good perspective. I think I really have an almost reaction formation re, relationships. I don’t need the money or companionship. (I have plenty of both.)
          I just can’t fathom one ounce of compromising myself again.

          1. Lorelei, I think any relationship with another human is give and take regardless of whether it is intimate or not. Compromising yourself by allowing any mistreatment? Absolutely NOT ok. My relationship has taught me that life is easier and more rewarding with a partner to bear half the load and to celebrate accomplishments. That may not be the case with all people and even I’ve been conflicted and contradictory at times. But at the end of the day, I know this man will be there for me. Day or night. There isn’t another soul on this planet that I can say that about. Not one.

          2. Understood. I feel like my best friend from
            my undergrad and my brothers would be my “go to” if I needed anything. I’m just so thoroughly fed up and disgusted I won’t compromise one thing. I went out for a drink with a close friend and her boyfriend a few nights ago. She is absolutely in love with and moving hours away to be near this man. He couldn’t even carry on a conversation! I thought “F this!” I won’t compromise out of loneliness ever because I’m not lonely, I like being alone, and I have given too much time and lost too much already.

          3. MB—just a thought and please don’t take offense as is not my intention. The not being able to express yourself without condemnation like at a show.. (I just read it somewhere) I know you don’t describe the overall scenario as anything but acceptable—but this is an infringement on your liberty. You DO NOT have to accept it. Just because 9/10 things are acceptable doesn’t mean we operate under acceptable ratios. I would encourage addressing things you’ve grown accustomed to—I can honestly say it would be a one time deal breaker for me. I’d walk out. It’s illustrated in HG’s Manipulation book. Just because he isn’t a narcissist doesn’t mean you have to accept bad with good without a voice.

          4. Lorelei, I wrote about this somewhere else although I don’t remember where. Me feeling judged and belittled is a manifestation of my own shame. I always find a way to feel bad or small. If somebody has a different opinion about how I should behave, my default setting is to retreat in shame. Sad, but true. I’ve been doing better, but still a very long way to go. My husband doesn’t do it intentionally. A narc would mop up the floor with me!

          5. Well.. I would not recommend being a mop to a narcissist! All I’m saying is.. If he were supportive of your forms of self expression you may not retreat into shame. With an empathic capability he’s also capable of listening to examples of where you walked away feeling less than. You and I both have some “gripping up to do.” If you stay silent and modify your own propensity to cut loose it is your choice, but not a fun one to live with. I am hugely triggered by this yes—I hate that word by the way because it sounds like whack job BPD stuff but I am. I experienced it so much (different but the same) from my children’s father that it kills me when I hear it. (So yes I’m naturally projecting but I think my message is valid.)
            At this point if I ever got one glance of condemnation I’d ghost someone. It’s that damaging for me. I remember the first time it happened. Maybe four months into it—I bought chocolate from Godiva. My favorite. I was totally diving in and he made a comment and had a look of disapproval. I thought he was joking at first and it became apparent that it wasn’t a joke. I’ll never forget it. I was in perfect physical condition MB. It wasn’t going to make my pants not fit. He used various forms of this tactic repeatedly over the years. It slaughtered me emotionally.

          6. Lorelei, thank you so much for your concern. No worries though. My husband is absolutely not a controlling salami slicing abuser. He’s just what I call a stick in the mud. A fuddy-duddy

          7. Sorry Lorelei, reply button went off prematurely! Anyway, I go and do things that he isn’t interested in or with other people that are. Or alone if I want to. I went to a TSwift concert alone and had a wonderful time. He doesn’t want to go on a cruise and I do, so I’m going next month with some other folks that also want to go. I don’t let him hold me back and he doesn’t want to hold me back. He’s glad for me to go have fun and he will be delighted to see me when I return. We do a lot together, but there are things he does without me and me without him. He’s not a narc. No need to be triggered for me sweetie.

          8. HG—which one of the 25 in Manipulated is this example associated with—the chocolate one I just gave MB? I want to re-read this.

          9. You need to restate Lorelei as I do not see the previous comment in the moderation pane.

          10. Lorelei, I copied and pasted it for you. Hopefully, HG will find it before you go to the trouble. It was easy as I’m using my desktop some today.

          11. HG – Lorelei’s comment: “I remember the first time it happened. Maybe four months into it—I bought chocolate from Godiva. My favorite. I was totally diving in and he made a comment and had a look of disapproval. I thought he was joking at first and it became apparent that it wasn’t a joke. I’ll never forget it. I was in perfect physical condition MB. It wasn’t going to make my pants not fit. He used various forms of this tactic repeatedly over the years. It slaughtered me emotionally.”

            She wants to know which of the 25 manipulations in ‘Manipulated’ this is.

          12. It is the “Should You Really?” Manipulations which is a cousin of Guilt. SYR appears in Manipulated 2 along with Barbed Banter, Fake Contrition, The Battering Ram and others.

          13. MB—it’s a cousin of inducing guilt and a manifestation of exerting control by diminishing my engagement in something I enjoy. He would then gain fuel by my irritation so a win/win for him. Did I articulate this properly HG? It’s early!

          14. Indeed. It is “Should You Really?” I expand on this in Manipulated 2.

          15. That’s why my question was Manipulated 2 😊
            Looking forward to it. HG has enough to keep me busy looking ahead for a very long time!

    2. Haha ! I related to you so much MB. Having an unsatisfying sex life is difficult. Like I’ve said In previous posts… I’ve been there.

      I read somewhere once it can take up to 18 months for the hormones in our bodies to get back to normal levels after a heightened sexual experince with a narc.

      I started going to the gym to deal with it… it’s been helpful and gets easier every month to move on as the memories and intensity of the feelings are starting to fade. It feels exciting to start to forget what it felt like… you’ll get there. When that point comes perhaps things will feel more back to normal, or even more exciting with your husband 🙂

      It could be you just need that time because you’re staying in your long term relationship you won’t have that heightened experience with someone new… even if they are a normal… so the feelings you feel over the pleasure of “newness” with the narc will take more time to fade.

      Hang in there !

      1. Empath007, 18 months, eh? I didn’t realize the goal was to forget. I had it all wrong! I’m trying to hold on to it because I don’t think I’ll ever feel it again. Actually, what I need to be doing is letting it fade so that my “normal” sexual experience will feel more exciting. Thank you for that. I hadn’t thought of it that way.

        One more reason to talk myself into going to the gym. Now, if somebody could tell me how to love exercise, I’d be forever in their debt!

        1. Haha ! exercise releases the same feel good endorphins that sex does 😉

          No. Don’t hang on to it… it wasn’t real to begin with. In time it will naturually be forgotten. I will admit it’s taking me a lot of time, but I know I will get there! Haha.

          1. Empath007, I think that’s my problem. I don’t experience an exercise high. Is it possible that some unfortunate people don’t? I want to get addicted to exercise! Instead, I’m addicted to pizza 😩

          2. Well if not the gym something else that you love that makes you feel alive 🙂 a live concert? A trip?

            I’m finding in my journey I need to connect to myself again. The narc was filling a void.

          3. Empath007, it’s true. I have a void. I’ve had it my entire life as far back as I can remember. I’ve always looked for “something more”

          4. MB
            I’ve never experienced an exercise high either. It must be right before you pass out and I can’t risk it. Exercise is to be despised but necessary – right up there with waxing and getting your roots done.

          5. NA, my seester! I don’t think everybody does get the “runner’s high”. Got it…”despised but necessary”

          6. NA—I’d highly recommend the pursuit. It is way up there. The way (for me) that it works is to set a goal and the incremental progress allows for occasional highs. For instance, I have a very lofty goal in mind. (Very)
            If I can pull it off I’ll be stoked for months. It’s not about physical attractiveness but about physical capability. You work and sweat your ass off and the high hits. I have poor upper body strength and my endurance is best described as me being fussy by my trainer. My mind set is improving though and this correlates with two specific goals. I got the all clear to run again so we shall see because I am in the middle of rehab for a knee issue. I was essentially incapacitated while living with my ex and for some months following. I have had a lot of work to do and don’t want to diminish the brand of progress made already but I think I’m ready to really kick the shit out of some goals now. Best high I ever got was after an awful backpacking trip years ago. It was brutal and just pulling it off was really a wow for me.

          7. Maybe I’m selfish, but I prefer having separate orgasms. When you have them together, it takes away from the experience. If I’m caught up in my own, I can’t enjoy his and vice versa. I never saw the point of aiming for simultaneous. Of course, I’m not the sexpert either!

          8. But you can have both, separate and together, during the same session. I definitely need to have a bunch before the other person finishes. MB, I believe you like what you like, nothing is better or worse, having an orgasm simultaneously is fun if you feel like it at the moment but it’s not my main goal when I’m having sex. My main goal is to wake up the neighbors! Haha.

          9. SP, I feel lucky to have one. I agree with HG. “Show off” Ha ha. Nah, I’m just kidding, it’s wonderful that you have such a prolific sex life. I must admit I’m envious. My husband would be mortified if the kids heard us, much less the neighbors! He’s not a wild one, that man.

          10. MB, I’m probably going a little bit far and this obviously is not a blog on sex education, but I suggest you play a little bit with yourself if you don’t already do so because that’s how I found out I can have as many orgasms as I am willing to as long as I want to keep going. Sometimes it gets just tiring. I believe all women are capable of this, but it’s hard to know during intercourse because of course you are also focused on the other person. Plus you are an Empath, I’m sure you are more sensitive to stimulation than a normal woman. I am sorry if I gave unsolicited advice or if you found this offensive, that was not my intention at all. I want everyone to be multi-orgasmic.

          11. Focused on the other person? Face to face? I’m starting to see the issue lol

          12. Hahaha NA! I wouldn’t focus on the other person that much if I knew I was with a narc. With an Empath I do want to focus on the other person too.

          13. SP, not a blog about sex? You saw the title of the article, right? Not to mention our moderator literally wrote the book, ‘Sex’! Thank you for your advice and I’m not offended at all. This place is like having a bunch of girlfriends and sisters on call at all times. Nobody ever talked to me about orgasms or masturbation or anything other than the mechanics of “reproduction”. There was never talk of sex meant to be an enjoyable, life enhancing activity. A woman enjoying sex meant she was a whore. I was married two years before I ever had one and that was, you guessed it, a solo session for research purposes to be sure I wasn’t broken. Even HG wrote that he could climax more intensely doing it himself. There must be something to this being your own best sex partner stuff. After all, if you can’t please yourself, how could you expect anybody else to? This homework is going to be more fun that BLL!

          14. Haha MB, I said the blog is not about sex… education. We talk about sex here every single day! Yes, I agree it’s like talking to friends and it’s fun and there’s no shame, which helps a lot. I hope you find the homework pleasurable and enlightening! Btw, I just discovered recently that my synesthesia happens with orgasms too. I thought I was having glaucoma and then found out it’s pretty common to experience flashes of light during climax!

          15. SP, education is what narcsite is all about! (As long as there’s no baking or cooking) The flashes of light has happened to me with kissing and with orgasm too. That’s what I thought people meant by fireworks 😊

          16. But it’s new? Will you answer the questions in Spanish? Don’t you already have enough to do Mr. Tudor!

          17. This is what happens for making rhetorical questions… I knew better…

          18. MB,

            “There must be something to this being your own best sex partner stuff”

            I think in most cases this is not quite true, not even for men. Maybe even less so for women.
            You can actually combine both – doing it with your partner and yourself at the same time (and much easier for women to do that).

          19. MB,

            I thought you said you’ve experienced some advanced and never known before stuff with your narc, even if it was only remote. So, here’s your answer… (and it does not need to be a narcissist).

            There is of course also the logical point that, if this were true, then we’d always be perfectly happy with doing it ourselves, nobody would need or search for a sexual partner anymore.

            There’s nothing wrong going solo, not saying that. But maybe try keeping the other in the loop too, sometimes, somehow (after, before, sexting, while together, mutual…).

          20. Abe, yes there was some never known before stuff with Narc. Erotic indeed. Stuff I’ve never even thought of. But never anything actual. It was all just talk.

          21. Abe, I’m appreciating the male perspective in our sex talk. You’re a cool guy. Welcome to the slumber party. See? girl talk is fun!

          22. Big girls have slumber parties too! Lots of drinking, eating junk food, and girl talk. I can see Abe right there with us. Not so much you HG. We’d get in trouble if you were there!

          23. Yeah, see? This is the problem with women today actually… You try to be nice, funny, helpful, give them some advice (sex-related or not), and next thing you know – Bham! – you get invited to the Big Girl Slumber Party… WTF??
            The party where they’ll cry on your shoulder – why can’t I find a nice loving empath guy who will give me that mystic sexual experience of my life?

            This is disgusting…

            I’m in! 😀

          24. Abe, you’re such a good sport. Ok, it’s official then, Big Girl After Party Slumber Party is in MBs room at Narcsite convention! No guys allowed. (Except Abe)

          25. Ha ha HG, I’d never intentionally exclude the life of the party! Turn it up to 11! I just thought you didn’t want to be a Big Girl. Anybody for spin the bottle?

          26. Can I have dry clothes for the sleepover? I just ran shoeless through city streets and up hills.

          27. MB,
            If we don’t see you for awhile we will all know why that is! 😉

          28. MB,
            Maybe you and hubby should go to dinner, visit a toy store, and stay in a hotel or cottage somewhere for the night or perhaps two nights? Stop at the liquor store, and rent some porn to watch together. That should get things moving in a different direction! In fact skip dinner and head straight for the toy store! 😉

          29. FM1T, we’ve had the toy store discussion on here. I’d rather stab my eyes out with hot needles than go. I’d be too embarrassed to watch porn with him, plus it’s pretty cheesy isn’t it? I’m sick to my stomach all of a sudden! 🤢

          30. Girl you’re gonna have to give a little bit here! Lol. The toy store is fun! I went in there so often when I was with my ex narc, that the people working there knew me by my first name. Lol, They would also hold back anything new that came in that they thought I might be interested in.
            As for the porn. You really aren’t watching it for the story line MB, actually you don’t have to watch it at all! Just make sure the sound is loud enough! That’s enough now, this talk is going to ruin my childlike reputation! Hahaha

          31. FM1T, I’d have no trouble with any of it with Narc. He was so open about sex and not judge mental at all. My hubs would be mortified and completely embarrassed and I’d feel like a fool in there with him. You’d just have to know him. I can’t even stand up and scream and dance at a concert with him. I get the “look” that says “you’re embarrassing yourself and therefore me.” And I sit down and behave. As I said before, he is where fun goes to die. I was relaxed with N. No rules. No judgement. Calm vibes. My husband, bless his heart has a stick up his ass. I make him sound awful and he absolutely is not. He’s a wonderful man but is better suited for a 60-70 year old woman. He doesn’t know me. Y’all know me better than he does. That’s my fault, and I own it.

          32. MB,
            It’s not your fault. But I do have a question for you if you don’t mind answering it? What would he do if you didn’t sit down when he gave you that look? What would he do if you said, I’m not sitting down I’m having fun, you should try it sometime? I myself cannot give any advice on relationships ever, I totally suck at anything that has to do with having a normal functioning relationship! But it sounds like you should really sit down and talk to him about how you feel. Maybe it’s time for him to know the real you? This I do know, your narc, he had rules and if you would have stayed with him you would have learned those rules, you would have been judged for every little thing you did. The calm that he made you feel would turn into fear and anxiety and you would have been walking on eggshells around him. You would not be able to relax for fear of constantly doing something wrong, and trust me they always find something wrong with what ever you do. MB I wish I knew the answers to help you with all of this and I’m truly sorry for your pain and frustration.

          33. FM1T, you’re such a sweetheart. He isn’t controlling me with the look and most likely I am projecting my own shame. Remember that I live in the belief that I am bad. Anything that reinforces that, whether actual or perceived makes me feel lower than whale shit. It’s who I am. I’ve gotten better over the years, but bottom line, if I feel judged, I’m the bad one. Every. Time. They are right. I am wrong. It’s in my DNA. Many of my “problems” are completely self inflicted. I picked the WORST defense mechanism of all time.

          34. MB… just… yikes.

            I get he’s not the devil.

            The normal
            I was with easy very uptight as well. Same stories with the concerts and all that. Except he liked that I was more outgoing. He also was into going to the sex shop and we bought games etc. Which were very very helpful.

            I think in your case, sex shop is a giant leap. Take baby steps… when’s the last time you dressed up lovely for him? When’s the last time you thanked him for all he does for you? When’s the last time you told him he looked handsome?

            Start to change some of the language.
            You may be pleasantly surprised what a fun Date night could bring. Focus on intimacy first…
            Not the sex.

            You’re choosing To stay. And you can absolutely improve the situation.

          35. Empath007, thank you for your words of wisdom. Anybody that’s followed my comments in this thread can see that I have conflicting thoughts around my marriage. It’s good. It’s stifling. He’s awesome. He’s boring. He knows me better than anybody does, yet he doesn’t know me at all. You are absolutely correct. I CHOOSE to stay. I make that choice everyday. You are very wise to pick up on the fact that it’s the intimacy, the emotional connection that is missing, not the sex. There is love, there is stability and support. The foundation is strong and we can build on that.

          36. Conflicting feelings are normal. There is always a sense of “did I miss something out there?” When you’ve only (primarily) has one partner. Everyone wants to think “oh what a beautiful thing 30 years”
            But that can occasionally feel so restrictive for those involved if they haven’t experinced other people.

            The grass is not greener on the other side. It’s either fertilized with bullshit (in the case of the narc) or it’s greener where you water it (your marriage) many people would be jealous of the situation your in.

            But yes. You are immensely lacking initimcay and that’s not fixed over night. Not when you two have been in the same routine for so long. Start with something simple…. a conversation. A compliment. Maybe find out what it is you think he’s lacking first ( perhaps he would like thoughtful gifts more often, a nice dinner made for him etc) obv I don’t know what those things are, that’s just ideas.

            I say that not so you ignore yourself…
            But to see if he responds positively to it.

            Also. One thing that’s helped me in the past is to choose to be happy where I’ve chosen to stay. That’s not to say you can’t be genuine and vent about the situation…. that’s all part of it… but IRL, try it and see if it help.

            Sorry if I seem intrusive 😂 not my intent. I just enjoy these kinds of conversations.

          37. Empath007, don’t ever worry about being intrusive or offensive with me. I appreciate you having this conversation with me. These are not things I can discuss with anybody in my life. I think the main thing I need to change is my mind. I doubt I’ll ever be that woman that vents or discusses my feelings about the relationship. Work, kids, whatever, yes. My needs and wants, not so much. I’m a negative emotion stuffer. If they ever make their way to the surface, it won’t be pretty!

          38. That’s true! I enjoy watching my partner have pleasure. It’s a huge turn on. Problem is after mine I often feel like napping🤣 they take a lot out of me so together is OK too.

          39. Empath007, agreed! The O takes it out of you. SPs talk of the multi-Os makes me tired, but sounds O so good. The naps after are the best! All that spooning and cuddling and bonding. Close your ears NA!

          40. Sex has the same endorphins and dopamine as exercise but with the addition of oxytocin (“the ultimate feel-good love chemical”). So exercise and have sex directly afterwards? 😉

          41. Let’s err on the side of caution and engage in sex INSTEAD of exercise.

        2. MB: This is what I do. I buy nice workout clothing and socks and shoes, etc. that boosts my morale. I then go to the gym. Once I am in the gym, I can’t just stand there. The gym is not conducive to standing. There are all types of machines, recumbent bicycle machines, standing machines for walking and skiing and climbing, rowing machines and there are classes like zumba or boot camp and you just go in to the class when it starts, whether you know what they are doing or not. and beginners are always welcome. And there are weights and resistance machines, most of them intuitive to use, so I just reach out and use them, or secretly watch how someone else is using a machine and then use the machine after the person leaves, and I move around. I never say to myself that I love exercise or not. I just go. Once you are in the gym, you will exercise. There is no choice. Just to one day a week and build up the frequency. Bring water.

          1. PSE, I’ve got my Exorcise with Tudor top ✅ my support bra, my shoes and my capri yoga stretchy britches all packed in my cute little gym bag. If I go in the door, I always do workout. The problem I have is that my car doesn’t want to turn in to the parking lot! I need to take your “just go” attitude. I whine and moan about not liking it and not wanting to be there so I feel miserable and have a hard time making myself show up. Once I’m there, it’s not so bad and I’m always glad I went. Just not glad enough to keep showing up without a fight.

          2. Has The House of Tudor given consideration to the idea of marketing a “support” bra? Ha ha!

          3. You know I don’t do support, but we could call them Max Ensnarement Bras

          4. Awww, you’re just being humble. The entire House of Tudor is filled with support items. You’re not fooling me!

          5. MB
            Haha tendrils. I heard the minions in Tudor Tower whispering about a possible release of a Tudor Asset Management line of undergarments embroidered with The Kraken logo. Move over Spanx.

          6. MB, I hope you don’t mind me jumping in.
            I have to have music to exercise. I have literally walked out of the gym shortly after arriving when my music didn’t work. I hate working out but I like to eat too much and hate shopping for new clothes.
            I’m also a people watcher so I can be entertained by some of the personalities. Another positive is that you get to know people the more you go at least enough to say hi like associates.
            Maybe good music and an award for going 7 weeks in a row may help.

          7. GT, I agree, music is an absolute must! I like people watching too. 7 weeks in a row?!! Good Lord! I’ll have to start with 2 and work my way up.

          8. Correction, sorry: I like to walk but that doesn’t help with my eating habits.

        3. MB: That’s the spirit. You see, MB, I am to good for a lot of things I have to do in this life. But , I have to do these things for now, or catastrophes and emergencies and disasters will appear. So in such cases, I do not EVER, EVER, EVER ask myself questions that my emotional side would just love to answer, and respond: Yes, PSE> You are to good for that, for sure. Am I too good to do my own laundry? I would never ask myself that, because the answer is yes, of course I am. So, I just look at decorating videos on youtube and I just do it. Or outfits for the week videos while I do my laundry. Am I too good to clean my own apartment? Of course I am. So I do not ask myself. I just play loud rock and roll music and prance and just do it. (I do plan to obtain service for myself in some of these areas. But, for now, it is all upon me.) Am I too good to go workout. Definitely. So I do not ask this question, and so I just wear cool outfits and pretend I am a cool Youtube influencer, or whatever and just do it. I am so pleased by your outfit, by the way. Those t-shirts that HG provides are Tres Cool, indeed. I like it. I am not really cool, but in gym clothes I surprisingly find some of my coolness, and I can express myself more for some reason. I like various workout looks, but mainly, 1) a little bit rock and roll like your outfit, and 2) sometimes a little bit tropical. My own gym style is fun for me. I love that article that HG Tudor wrote, titled something like: I`m Too Good For That.

        4. MB: Gym day!!!!: Today I am wearing my White Under Armour Baseball-ish Cap. A red and white, small-striped T shirt. Black Workout Pants. White Socks and red Trainers with white soles, and black fingerless gloves to handle the machines and weights. (sort of nauticalish today, stylewise). I will be carrying my Red Cherry Blossom Water Bottle. I have lots of free reign at this gym on Sundays. The people are mostly those that live in the neighborhood from Manhattan (vs people that work in the area as well), few Somatics (not enough people to look at them on Sundays), and less stress in the overall environment, and the employees are extra friendly to see us clients on Sundays. The gym is only open 5 hours on Sundays. And it is 3 blocks from my apartment. I had to change from the one near work because of the Narc. dynamic there. I did not want to change, although the location was farther away, but I had to. Since the dullness is lifting a bit, I have worked up to 3 days a week since I changed to this new location, at the same time that GH took that little break from the blog. I wish I knew when that break was. But, that is when I started going back to the gym. HG said working out is better than taking pills/pharmaceuticals to feel better. Right now I go on Sundays, and Thursdays (a fun Zumba Class). And lately, Tuesdays, as well. A very pleasant lady there wants me to take the bootcamp class on Wednesdays, and I told her no promises yet, but, I will think about it. And, I thanked her for inviting me. I am slowly warming up to the gym relocation. MB: remember, do not ask your emotions should you go! Just tell yourself you are just stopping in the gym for a moment and then turn your vehicle into the parking lot, and go inside. The rest is automatic.

          1. PSE, you go girl! My goal is to go three times this week after work. Just cardio and then sauna. If I don’t miss tomorrow (Monday) then I can do it. And I WONT consult my emotional side. That bitch will sabotage me every time!

    3. “Now I can die happy!”

      MB, I think I saw a comment from you a few days ago saying you don’t want to die before experiencing this IRL. Please make up your mind, which one is it? 🙂

      (If it was not your comment, I apologize, but I’m pretty sure it was you)

      1. Abe, it WAS me! I do want to experience it IRL at least once before I die. (Or even just one passionate kiss with someone I’m attracted to.) But I can still die happy having had the out of body experience of the phone sex. I’m not entirely sure I’d survive the intensity of the real thing anyway. I might would quite literally die happy! 😂

  24. Dearest HG: Why did you ask the Dr: [ “Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.] HG, I looked up the expression and was not sure the definition I found fit in this context of the interaction. Also the expression I read is a particularly British one. So I could be missing the cultural nuance. So, I wanted to know why you asked, what you meant, and if this Dr. did this sort of thing, take the piss, with you during therapy before. Or, did he hit on an area that you personally found disturbing and alarming. Also, do you have any idea why the Dr. was becoming flustered. I would think nothing should surprise him at this point in his field. Was he attracted to you or something like that, do you think.

    1. He asked a question and I answered him by rejecting his suggestion. For him to try to ask it again went against logic, therefore the only reason he could have for asking it again was because he wanted to provoke me and was thus taking the piss by doing so.
      Take for example somebody sat with ten donuts on their plate. They have plenty of donuts and that is clear. If you then said “would you like another donut” you are asking a question which is unnecessary and therefore by asking this question you could only be taking the piss/being sarcastic.

      1. Dearest HG: Thank you. I would say something, but I will just be quiet as a layman and I wish you success for yourself on your interactions with these people over these years. I do not know the field and I do not know what are the examples of Malpractice according to the law in that `profession.` And what Bill Of Rights as a client pertain to you, just for the record, in your locality. And, if you are allowed to obtain a copy of your session records over there. There are rules, but I know in the U.S. the entire topic of rules of engagement for clients and client rights in the mental practitioner field is kept very hush-hush, to the detriment of the clients, of course.

      2. Every Man I’ve dated has said that “why ask again when I’ve answered”

        And the answer is simple… I’m not satisfied with the answer as (from my perspective) it is the answer that is illogical.

        That happened all the time with the narc. And I find this sight. and recieve the answer that’s seems logical. Therefore I can stop asking the question.

        This wasn’t meant to argue your point about your reaction in the article. Just my own personal experince… no need to post this if you don’t want.

  25. I was not gonna ask this although I have thought about it multiple times, so now that you bring it back: do you do that to SM? The nettle thingy. You don’t have to answer if you believe it to be a very personal detail but I think it would help us learn, for example, about your control of the desire of control during sex.

    1. Nice try Sweet P. Ha ha! I’ve never heard of these nettles except for the kid that HG pushed in them repeatedly. Maybe Google will just have to be my friend on this one.

      1. MB: I am reading Sex and the Narcissist and I understand that the intimacy is person specific. Also there is subtle inquisition made of the source while watching various scenes in movies and asking questions and such other methodology. It is sort of incredible. One can not say that a Narcissist is not hard working in many arenas. I feel I can sort of learn a thing or 2 from them. Does that make me a bad person? For better future happiness potential with someone. Best be prepared.

        1. PSE, it sure does seem that an empathic man could perfect his sexual skills to be superior to even the narcissist. There would be real intimacy as well as off the charts pleasure. I’d be interested to know the experience of anybody with an empathic sexual partner.

          I’ve read ‘Sex’ before on Kindle, but have recently ordered myself a paperback copy. I’ll be waiting a little while to read it again. I don’t need any more triggering right now!

          1. To MB: regarding sex with an empathetic partner. It was a heavenly experience. I have a high sex drive and sometimes after the divorce I would indulge in ONS . I can climax with every partner but this is purely physical experience, purely lust and just body pleasure. I met that guy and every time with him was divine . I could feel with every fibre of my body. Totally losing any sense for time , surrounding, multiple Os and the last one was always when he was finishing. Always! A respect for each other preferences , monogamous ( I never ever had to ask him, it was his desire to commit) . Even though he couldn’t give me every time a second round like my ex Mid Range husband can, still – even the rough, wild sex with another empath is love making; even the inmpromptu in the car – totally different from the actor performance of Narcs. Put it this way – with a Narcs is kinda porn – excellent technique but no emotional connection. Have you noticed the fake face expressions and sounds at porn movies? With an empath you have authentic experience. It doesn’t mean vanilla sex only – not at all:)! No post coital blues like after sex with Narcs ( when the effect endorphins and oxytocin is shorter) ; long lasting happiness from the released body tension combined with positive vibes . A good sex with Narcs – winning bronze or silver on a sport event – still you feel good but you know, something could be better . A good sex with an empath – winning the gold on the competition. The feeling is different:)!

          2. Claire, wow! Sounds like fireworks going off all over the place. I’ve never heard of post coital blues but it makes perfect sense if there’s no bonding. I would hate to be in the room when you tell an N his performance only wins bronze or silver! Thank you for your account. I think some people might think of an empathic man as a “girlie” man. I do know however that is not the case at all. Quite the opposite actually.

            From what I’ve seen, (and empaths don’t stand out like narcs do) empaths are rare and males especially so. I work with 26 men. I’ve identified four narcs but only one empath from the lot of them.

            HG, your numbers of one in six absolutely bear out in my real life sample. What about empaths? What is your anecdotal number? If more than one in 26, I’ll have to do some more ferreting!

          3. Just one remark here – I think in SATN or on the blog I read something that HG wrote and I did not agree at the time – that the man and the woman, most often than not, do not have orgasm at the same time. In my experience, limited as it is, (and now there is also a confirmation for this) it is perfectly possible, and even happens almost every time.

          4. AbeM
            I think it possible but highly unlikely. To both reach orgasm in the same session yes, but at the same moment? Sounds like that’s more in the brain or complete performance designed to make you believe in ‘connection’.

          5. It is possible and not difficult. It’s easier if you are facing each other but it can be done too in other positions. I know other friends who have the same experience with their partners, I don’t know why this seems like an oddity. It is not.

          6. If you are having to hold it in order to climax together then this is not the simultaneous I was referring to. I’m referring to where they both build and occur at the exact same time without holding on so the other ‘catches up’

          7. Abe, my experience is even more limited than yours and it has happened a handful of times, but it is not on purpose and in my case could not be planned. I understand there are women that are highly orgasmic and can almost O on command. Claire sounds like one of these lucky women. The feeling of her partner climaxing would certainly be enough to send her over the edge and simultaneous orgasms could happen nearly every time. (Hell, I’ve heard of some of these highly orgasmic women having Os waiting in line at the grocery store!) True story.

          8. At the grocery store probably not, but in the car or in the theatre or in the opera or in the museum. It doesn’t happen frequently to me but it has happened. This is a wonderful Saturday morning conversation supported by the massive hangover I have from last night and the two hoovers I just received via LinkedIn. What an asshole…

          9. It doesn’t do it to me either Lorelei. I’m not really sure it would be a good thing to be so sensitive. It would take away from the actual sexy time.

          10. I agree with Abe. I control my orgasms and can make them coincide with my partner’s, it’s easy. Notice I say “them.” Many women don’t know they can have multiple orgasms easily.

          11. “I agree with Abe. I control my orgasms and can make them coincide with my partner’s”

            I’m in the same camp as Abe and SP. I can control mine. Similar to Abe, I have also taken issue with the same point in SATN.
            In fact, I have been putting off doing my “Narc Detector” because of the sex question and that particular point – partly since I feel weird about it somehow not being usual – and because this was one of the things that my narc used against me.

          12. This is not the simultaneous situation I’m referring to. You’re holding it and waiting. The Narc Detector Consultation has nothing to do with the issue of simultaneous orgasm.

          13. WhoCares, take the narc Detector! It has nothing to do with that. I just did mine and I’m waiting for the results, it’s not painful or invasive, I promise!

          14. I knoooooow!!! It’s thanks to your advice about the prepaid Visa cards that I finally did it! Thanks so much 😘😘😘

          15. In my case, I’m not saying it is happening every time, but most of the times.

            This simultaneous orgasm thing might be indeed related to the women experiencing multiple orgasms. Maybe I was lucky, but at least the last 3 women in my life (including Nx) were like this. Now I no longer count Nx with full certainty, she might have faked them…

            My wife sometimes describes her experience like an orgasmic plateau. She gets there after a few climaxes and stays there in a sort of continuous orgasm state which intensifies from time to time, more so when I also finish. Other times, she just has separate orgasms, but the later ones occur easier and faster than the first ones (which of course increases the probability of “simultaneity”).

            I don’t think she has to “hold it” util I also come. My side of the experience is that seeing and feeling her getting close is enough to arouse me to the brink too, and I suppose it is very similar for her. It just builds up between the two of us.

          16. Yes, it’s a similar experience for me. It increases and the more you have the more frequent it gets. But if you hold it, the next one can be three times stronger. I’m glad you are lucky to have had women with multiple orgasms, Abe. I find it releases the pressure on the guy to try to satisfy his partner, and of course there’s more margin to play and experiment.

          17. Lord this place is quite erotic today. I am
            visiting my mother and we are
            laughing about my sexual
            sabbatical and self discovery of avoiding further alien encounters! Quote, (from dear mom)—“I’m so glad that shit has come and gone.”

          18. Hm. On empath007 to do list: find empath partner.

            No seriously…. where is he?!

          19. Reg: sex with another Empath: imagine all the soul you wish you could have found in the physical interaction with your narc; you have it all i front of you. You kiss the person and feel that the person feels your kiss. Every contact is supported by feelings and you know your partner is connecting at a deeper level if this makes sense. I don’t want to sound cheesy. This is actually why it wasn’t that difficult for me to find the awkwardness when I made out with my narc, it was just a hot body but I found it robotic and empty of any emotional response.

          20. Maybe I’ll be the controlling dominatrix next time. If I could do it without laughing! Sex seems abstract almost at this point in time.

          21. Lorelei if you can do it without laughing you are in for a very pleasurable experience. Being the dominant gave me a sense of power I have never felt before!

          22. You’re married to the empath right? So jealous! Haha. My narc made me feel like he could feel the connection…enjoyed kissing and all of that. But knowing he couldn’t feel what I felt… well… that sucks for him a lot more then it does for me I suppose. I enjoyed myself but was crushed by the fact it meant nothing to him.

          23. Yes empath007, and it is fantastic and sometimes we explode in laughter in the middle of sex because someone did something funny or got tickled. Empaths don’t fear laughing at themselves. When we finish we cuddle and talk, or take a shower together, fall sleep spooning… he always says he loves me when we finish having sex. I never feel the void of being left alone by the narc without even saying he liked it. I personally don’t want to try an affair again and even less a narc again. So mechanic and unfulfilling.

          24. Now you’re just showing off 😜 lol. But that’s great. To have that in a marriage is such a gift. Definitely don’t ever trade it for a narc. I don’t have much experience with sex. I’ve had a limited number of partners… but I found the “normal” I was with to be worse in this department. No imagination, no concern for my pleasure, just 5 minutes and done. No cuddling or talking after,
            No I love you after…. just an extremely robotic act.

            The narc could at least fake it so it was a step up 😂

            And now… to find the real deal!

          25. SweetP
            Cuddling and spooning??!!!!! Jesus, is there no end to the insanity? I need to lay down.

            Don’t get any ideas lol.

          26. NA, I used those words thinking specifically of you as I know how cuddly you are …

          27. So what do you do after sex?

            Get up and take a shower?

            I never understood how someone can’t enjoy a good cuddle 🤷🏻‍♀️

          28. Empath007, it depends on many variables: time during the day, plans, location of the sex, length… if it is a quickie before going out we don’t cuddle. If it is a long session before going to bed we talk, cuddle, laugh, take a bath … I must also say life with another Empath is not perfect. Do you remember that thread we are not allow to name anymore? Our arguments are more or less like that.

          29. Oh no I get the variables thing I was in a long term relationship. He actually did get up very quickly every single time even though I had many conversations with him about it. But in the mornings etc obviously there’s not always time to cuddle. Even myself will just get up and go depedning. But I just have a hard time understandning why someone wouldn’t like it all. Lol. Ever.

            I don’t remember the thread but can’t imagine any long term relationship that there wouldn’t be arguing. As long as it doesn’t become the norm (like it does with a narc- at least it does for me due to the behaviours) I think it’s healthy and necessary! Arguing means you care enough to bring things up with one another sometimes.

          30. Empath007
            Yes. Pee. Shower. Hydrate. Sex is an activity and release for me and not for purposes of bonding. I do not like cuddling outside of the bedroom either. Holding on for any length of time feels restrictive and smothering and I will almost immediately disengage.

          31. Interesting! To each their own. Luckily lots of men would have no issue with that as most are it the same way you do. I really enjoy intimacy and I like to just rest after… mostly because an O can take a lot out of me. So I think it’s nice to just hang out after for at least 15-20 minutes. When I’ve had partners who reacted like you I did not enjoy it much… just seemed way too uptight. But you’ve shed some perspective on it now.

          32. Ha ha. It’s like the public service announcements you hear on the radio. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming…

          33. Lorelei, is that ok? I do sometimes. Of course I tend to dribble a bit during most physical activities! I was really self conscious and worried about it when planning to meet N for actual sex. Luckily it never happened! If I really let go and relax into it, the pee happens. I told him once, what if I pee when we are together. He said, do whatever you have to do. Yeah sure, during the GP. Once devaluation happens, I’m sure things would have changed drastically.

          34. I was referring to water sports actually! My oldest was breech so I don’t have the urinary issues (during sex) as my kids were all c-sections.

          35. As I said, I have an uncanny ability to make a fool of myself! I’ll pass on the water sports. I don’t know if the stress incontinence later or taking care of a newborn after major surgery is worse. At least you recover from the c-section with like new lady bits! There is that 😊

          36. As far as water sports—if anyone tried that with me the fuel would be negative. A foot up their ass. Is that a challenge?

          37. I’m afraid to Google water sports to be honest. I have the general idea and that is good enough. I don’t have any curiosity around it. Negative fuel. Absolutely!

          38. I have to be careful with weird activity on my devices because of my kids MB! They are always changing my profile pictures etc.. Always on my stuff. I found my Facebook profile pic was a monster Snapchat picture for awhile and I had no idea. I’m eagerly awaiting the production of “Billy Elliot” in theatre at the moment. Have a good night.

          39. MB—I hate Word Press.. I can’t reply to you where you are talking about not experiencing exercise highs but preferring pizza. Here it goes.. Food is a relationship—nothing less/nothing more. Simplify it. We are learning relationships require (demand) a new approach here. I call it boundaries for simplification. I don’t think HG is a huge fan of the term boundaries for being a catch all but it works for me. You also have a relationship with your body—not just people. I was in deplorable physical shape after never having been in such a position during the end of the mind fuck. I just couldn’t get up—I slept up to 16 hours/day. I lost the capacity to prepare healthy food or clean my house. (Had a cleaner come in weekly—it gave him
            more fuel to berate me over not functioning and he was the common denominator ironically..) In 2 years I gained a lot of weight and I’ve had to fix this. It was imperative and I’m back to the right mental state or my baseline mental state. (The weight increase was bad food and mostly alcohol)
            The “high” comes from busting your ass. A half mile stroll isn’t going to produce this—it’s nice and healthy but the high is generated by pushing and raising the bar. I’m not saying pizza isn’t tempting but it’s like a “bad date.” (For me)
            Exercise is really fun and it feels much better to work your ass off doing healthy things than wasting it on pizza. I’d venture to say my morning run tomorrow will benefit me 100% more than eating half a pizza. (I’m really beating pizza up because I do admire it!) I’m going to eventually have to learn to like what I perceive as “boring” men too. HG has his work cut out for him. Anyway, the bottom line is to encourage some thought on how to kick your own ass. It feels good when you are almost dead but not after a work out.

          40. Lorelei, I’ve taken so long to respond to this comment because it is truth. My relationship with myself and my body is and always has been “on the rocks”. (Except when I was a kid.) I’ve resigned myself to irreconcilable differences. My relationship with food is equally unhealthy. I read a book by G. Roth called ‘When Food is Love’ about 5 years ago and cried my eyes out. I never had a weight issue until after my second baby and starting on mental meds which happened around the same time. I feel like a thin person in a body that doesn’t match. I’m miserable much of the time. Food and alcohol do help short term but then start the cycle of shame again. I go through periods of extreme control. Trying to be perfect and I do really well. But something happens and I can’t sustain it. I rebel against my controlling self with reckless abandonment. I sabotage it when I see progress. I am an all or nothing person. I set a goal to go to the gym three times this week. I missed Monday so, what the hell, I’ll try again next week. I messed up and had a slice of pizza. Oh well, since I already failed, I might as well fail big and eat half of the pie. I feel in constant war within myself of good and bad. My good, logical self wants me to eat healthy and exercise. My rebellious sabotaging self says to my good self, you can’t tell me what to do! It’s always been this way. I was able to be perfect for a year and I lost 65 lbs. this was 9 years ago. Then the sabotage kicked in. Once I allowed that one carbohydrate into my mouth, I was done. I had messed up all that I had accomplished and was no longer perfect. Since then, I’ve gained it all back and then some. Perfectionism isn’t what people think. It is awful and insidious. It confirms over and over that you are a failure at everything. A self fulfilling prophecy since there is no such thing as a perfect human. Procrastination is a huge issue in my life as well. Linked to perfectionism. If I can’t do it perfectly, I just won’t attempt it at all. Bottom line, I’m fucked up. When I try to do better, I will for a while but it never lasts. I’ve got to fix my head and I have no idea how. I do know how to kick my own ass. It’s just that the bad, rebellious side of me always wins. The good, logical side needs to step up her game.

          41. Beautiful post MB. Very relatable, very authentic and very real. I was really shocked how compromised I was when I had lost the ability to function. I may expand more later—It’s complicated and I’m still in awe at times. I was nearly obliterated in terms of being able to even stay awake, could not attend to anyone’s needs or my own. Yes, it was circumstantial but the repercussions were that a lot of action was required. Action is logical and this I do firmly believe. I know HG’s work can help with this—the approach of logic (and really mindfulness) is so much of what he discusses in regard to our own behavior. I support you 100% and there are so many ways to incorporate logical physical health into daily life. Much the same as me eliminating my engagement with narcissistic men MB—I have to think of my behavior in my daily engagements. I have to fight against what I naturally do because it’s unhealthy.

          42. MB, reading your honest comment made me cry. I know exactly how you feel. I have been a perfectionist my whole life and it is just a constant self-blaming, self-putting down, striving to be better and better. I suffered anorexia during my whole college years and this brought a lot of unnecessary pain to my family and friends. My mom sent out “spies” -my friends- to the library where I spent the entire day to make sure I ate something. They pretended to be passing by and invited me to have a snack. They followed be to the bathroom, not knowing I didn’t suffer bulimia, I just didn’t want to eat. It all started the first time I came to the US after winning a prestigious scholarship. I didn’t have my support system, or my friends, or my boyfriend. I didn’t understand the American culture and didn’t understand that people didn’t see eating as a social thing like I did, most people ate in front of the computer, alone. So I stopped eating. And soon I realized that was the only thing I had control over, and it became an obsession. Eating disorders are not as easy as “girls just want to look like models.” People don’t understand they are born out of personality issues and a need of control. In a way I understand when HG explains that “narcissism stops him from seeing this or that” because something similar happens when you have an eating disorder. One part of you remains rational; I looked at myself and knew I looked extremely thin (I was 80 pounds). I knew I needed to eat. But my anorexia took over all rationality. I am perfectly fine now and my relationship with food is completely normal, but it was never the food. You have to work on yourself and learn to love yourself and let go a little of your demands and expectations to yourself. I am sorry you are going through this, MB. I know it seems impossible now but I know you can do it. 😘
            PS: HG has an article about an anorexic ex. I found it romantic he says he tried to make her eat. That should tell you how fucked up the disorder is.

          43. MB, I can relate to your battle with perfectionism. I had similar problems and the one that helped me was a philosophy offered by a podcast called ‘Sorta Awesome’. I haven’t listened to it for a long time but I liked their philosophy on why their name is ‘Sorta Awesome’. The host explained that a lot of people battle with perfectionism and she described similar scenarios such as what you described. So she started having this philosophy where she just aims for ‘sorta awesome’ instead of ‘awesome!’ So if you have set a goal of exercising three times a week and you missed Monday, it’s not going to be ‘awesome!’ but you can still make it ‘sorta awesome’ by not missing on Wed and Fri. And even if you missed all three days of exercise, no exercise would still be ‘sorta awesome’ if you didn’t have a slice of pizza. So I don’t aim for awesome anymore, I’m ok with ‘sorta awesome.’ I know it’s easier said than done but I thought I would share with you what helped me. I think that the self flagellating trait of empaths also causes you to have pizza. I think that you can train yourself to not beat yourself up for not attaining complete ‘awesomeness’ and just be grateful when you are able to get to ‘sorta awesomeness’.

          44. HG, have you shared your anecdotal empath numbers? How likely are we to see them in our everyday lives?

          45. Empath007, that answer didn’t satisfy my curiosity either. I only know one empathic man (maybe one other iffy one) My youngest son is an empath. He makes his mama so proud. 🥰

            As a general rule, I find empaths harder to spot than narcs. Could it be they are less than 1 in 6 like narcs or maybe they are just more subtle?

          46. Yes I find them hard to spot too, Also men are just conditioned to be more selfish in general. Not a lot of men are raised to “think about others feelings” OR encouraged to express their own feelings. This makes it a lot harder to find a man who’s an empath. Or a man who is just more in tune with other people’s feelings.

            Anyways. I enjoy my own company. I’m not desperate to find anyone, I actually enjoy some space after being in relationships for so long.

            Good on your for raising an empathetic young man. Says a lot about you as a mom.

          47. Thank you Empath007, my other son is a normal like my husband. Not rude, just oblivious. My youngest considers how his actions will affect others. Example: if I’m in the shower when it’s time for him to leave for school, he locks up the house and sets the alarm. My oldest would just walk out and not even lock the door and may even leave the garage door open! Sounds like a small thing, but there are all kinds of considerate acts like that all the time that he does that don’t benefit him directly and take a little effort on his part. It stands out to me because the others I’ve lived with are so much different. I wouldn’t say it’s attributed to me, though. Maybe it’s genetic 😊

          48. ‘Jealous of your contentment’
            is the article which tells us how to be to attract nonnarcs. Easier said than done, for many of us.

          49. I had an O once standing at the Narc desk when all he did was roll his chair towards me to prove to me that we had too much sexual chemistry to trust ourselves. Out of nowhere I had a bonafide orgasm, clutching the edge of the desk, my head stretching upwards, and me struggling to stay silent and hold in the O moan. Never ever had such an easy experience like that. A bit awkward! So when I had finished, I just said, Well I guess you’re right, and walked out of his office.

            I have to say I’ve never had to fake an O with an Italian. But my Narc wasn’t Italian. Sorry if this was TMI!

          50. Kel, no such thing as TMI at narcsite! Nice story. I’m sure N felt powerful indeed. I’ve crushed on a couple of Italians in my life. Both chefs. Of course, never had sex with them. Are all Italian guys short or was it just mine?

          51. Kel
            Go Kel! There’s a case for having extra panties in your desk drawer if I ever heard one. Who needs a Kit Kat when you can have that kind of a break?

          52. Oh NA you ate on a roll today! It must be from all of the cuddling you did last night! 🤗

          53. NA, are not ate. Unless you did eat something off of someone’s buns today? 😉

          54. MB,
            Most Italians are short, but some are 6’. They are very passionate lovers! It feels like your souls gravitated up and had intercourse with each other too! Like their cooking, they take love making seriously. And it is passionate, I remember one time it was so incredibly just beautiful, we both had a tear roll down our cheeks- hope that doesn’t sound corny- but it’s true! Where’d all the Italians go?

          55. SP
            “Many women don’t know they can have multiple orgasms easily.”

            Many women don’t know about the Tracy’s Dog c-sucking,g-spot vibrating sex toy.

            If they did that in itself might help them abandon the narcissist

            Ps. Hydrate.

          56. WokeAF, you had to make me google that 😂 Who names a sex toy company Tracy’s Dog? Good Lord! I’ve never heard of it. I learn something new everyday here. “Ps. Hydrate.” Hilarious! Btw, Amazon carries it. Thanks for the advice. I like having all these girlfriends to help me out!

          57. Haha HG!! In Italy indeed! They’re mostly in New York or Florida over here. I’ve been thinking it would be fun to live overseas for a year, but I hadn’t considered Italy.. until just now!!

          58. MB, You would be loads of fun to go to Italy with- especially with your country twang and both of us trying to speak Italian!! Doing!

          59. Kel, we’d take Italy by storm! I’ve probably never had pizza until I’ve had it in Italy.

          60. MB, I think my husband has a lot of empathy although he’s also very narcissistic. He might be an empathic Normal or a Carrier empath. Sex with him is great, I never have problems having multiple Os and I probably suck in bed because he’s the only guy that I’ve ever had sex with. But I always feel cherished and he always makes me feel like a rockstar in bed even though I’m probably not. We have simultaneous orgasms eventually because I have multiple and eventually we simultaneously have it. He always smiles at me in the end like he has such a prize. The only drawback that I have is he’s religious and sometimes I am curious about trying other stuff that I don’t think that he will ever want to try. Like I got invited by my mom friends for all of us to watch 50 Shades of Grey before where we would all wear fake handcuffs and cheap boas for fun and having drinks together and he said that I can do what I want but he acted so unhappy that I am doing it because it teaches a wrong attitude about sex and he didn’t want me to be seen by people in the community watching the movie while wearing fake handcuffs. So I ended up not going because I couldn’t stand making him unhappy. So there’s the little drawback. But I’m still quite happy with my multiple Os. My husband said that some women doesn’t have that. And also the fact that I don’t have to worry about him withholding intimacy or devaluing me.

          61. MP, it sounds like you have a good thing going!

            You didn’t miss anything not watching 50 Shades. Fun with your friends, yes. The movie, no. It is good Narc education for beginners though. Such blatant narc behavior in that one. I’m more angry at them than of the producers of Pretty Woman!

          62. 50 Shades of Shite is an abomination and it should be burned and deleted.

          63. Yes MP. It’s terrible. I bought the first book when I was bored with my sex life… and the book bored me more then my own sex life.

            The characters are flat. The dialogue is extremly simplified. Nothing about it was steamy or a turn on. I have no idea why it was such a hit.

            But go figure a book meant to turn women on would be such a bore.

          64. “I was bored with my sex life… and the book bored me more then my own sex life.”

            😂. I’m so glad that I didn’t buy the book. I was seriously curious what the fuss was all about. I’ll just stick to GOT. At least the story line and production is amazing!

          65. Thank you MB! Glad I didn’t watch it then. I saw the DVD at the $5 bin at Walmart and I almost bought it out of curiosity. Glad I didn’t. I haven’t read the book either. I love Pretty Woman though. It’s one of my feel good movies. I love love love the hotel manager. He was like a modern day fairy godmother. 😊

          66. MP, Hector Elizondo is an excellent actor. He is wonderful in ‘The Other Sister’ too. One of my favorite movies. If you haven’t seen it, it’s an excellent movie too.

          67. Thank you MB. I will definitely check that out. I always like the way he acts. But especially in Pretty Woman, the way he interacted with her, the way he looked at her just made me feel so happy for her because he was looking at her recognizing her dignity. He did such a great job in that movie.

          68. Pretty woman is one of the best movies ever.
            Never watched or read 50 shades of whatever, as it struck me as boringly artificial, or like … people haven’t lived, no?

          69. Ava101, I thought Pretty Woman was one of the best too until the other week when it was confirmed that Edward was a narc and that an alternate ending had been created to cover up that fact. It was like finding out Santa isn’t real. Fairy tales do happen, just not like that.

          70. AVA. We are probably the few women left that have not read 50 shades of Grey. I never saw the movie ever. I have no reason really why I did not seek it out. So much product out there to read and view. I am going to pass on it.

          71. On the topic of multiple orgasms ..ive never had an issue having them one right after the other. I feel sorry for those who havent figured out how or cant for some reason. Idk the science behind it but from an early age i was able to. A friend of mine explained how and from there on i was able to have as many as i wanted. I think my record is 16 spread out in one encounter. It is different manually vs with a sexual partner. Sorry if tmi 😁

          72. Chimum, wow! Just wow! I’m definitely broken or malfunctioning. More with a partner or without? 16 sounds exhausting, but I wouldn’t mind getting the count over one! Men really did get cheated when it comes to orgasms. I actually feel kind of bad for them. 😐

          73. Chihuahuam, MB, I believe that number, and I won’t say my highest number because then HG calls me a show off. I also agree it’s easier when you are by yourself because you don’t depend on anyone’s timing.

          74. MB, I did ask my husband if he feels cheated. He said no, he also likes the multiple O’s because the contractions make him feel amazing.

          75. MP, good to know he doesn’t feel cheated. I’ve only ever had one at a time but I still feel bad because it lasts MUCH longer than his. I’ve never asked him if he felt cheated though. I’m the one that’s feeling cheated after all you ladies have shared! #lifegoals

          76. MB, I’m not sure but I think my multiple O’s have more to do with my husband’s skills than mine. I guess he’s kinda narcish in a way that he always asks me which I liked best or felt best and really focused on me than him. Except that in the 11 years that we have been together he is still excited about sex with me. I just found out that I’m a Geyser Empath, so I was thinking I really lucked out that he is not a narc because if he was, my fuel would have already been stale a long time ago. It’s so nice that after 11 years he still thinks that I shine like a diamond. I guess God was really watching over me.

          77. MP, I’m not surprised at all that you are a Geyser. Yes, you are very fortunate to have met and fell in love with the man that you did!

          78. I certainly don’t feel cheated!

            It’s very rewarding, actually, for a man, to be able to experience a woman’s multiple orgasms.

          79. Chimum, you have better friends than I do obviously. Nobody ever explained to me how. I thought it was just a thing that happened in movies, not real life!

          80. Ava101, I don’t know! Google and YT are our friends on this one I suppose. (And maybe Tracy’s Dog?)

          81. Who counts how many orgasms they had – especially when they’re over 10?? How would you even pay attention to that count when you’re busy having orgasms? And how long are you taking to do it?? 1, 2 or 3 is plenty- Quality over quantity!

          82. Kel2day I did! Because I wanted to know how much longer it could go! Hahaha it’s not that I count every time, this was a little experiment. I was young and just discovered that I could make them happen that’s all.

          83. Sweetest Perfection,
            Gotcha! O-counting when you’re young is completely understandable!

          84. Sad coincidence, my old Italian boyfriend I mentioned on this thread, about the beautiful tear we both had once after making love, just passed away last night per his wife’s post on FB. We had reached out to each other on FB a couple of years ago, and reminisced and caught up. No condolences to me or anything, but since I had commented about how special he was to me here a few days ago, is just all.

        2. AVA: Pretty Woman had a bad ending! You saw the changed ending! The script was by Jonathan Lawton: Originally called $3,000. That is the price that the working girl contracted with a week for the businessman. He drove her back to her shabby derpived neighbohhood, pulled her out of his car and tossed her to the ground and tossed the money at her and drove away in the end. Some actresess turned down the original role because of the real ending: Ava, here is the real ending of Pretty Woman: [ Edward walks around the car and opens the trunk. He pulls out
          Vivian’s few boxes of clothes and sets them down on the curb. He
          shuts the trunk.
          He walks over to the passenger door and opens it.
          EDWARD
          (firmly)
          Get out.
          Vivian doesn’t move. She is still crying.
          EDWARD
          Don’t make me regret ever picking
          you up. Now please, get out of the
          car. I have to go.
          Edward grabs her by the hand and starts to pull her from the
          car. Vivian explodes again and starts hitting and kicking him.
          Edward forcibly drags her from the car and then throws her to
          the ground. He slams the door shut.
          As Vivian hits the ground she begins to cry again, too weak to
          fight anymore.
          Edward looks down at her. He takes the money envelope from his
          jacket and holds it out to her.
          123.
          EDWARD
          Here, take it. It’s your money.
          VIVIAN
          (sobbing in fits)
          I don’t want it. Just go away.
          EDWARD
          Take it.
          VIVIAN
          No.
          EDWARD
          You’ll regret it tomorrow if you
          don’t take it. You’ll regret it the
          minute I drive away.
          Vivian doesn’t say anything. Edward lays the envelope down on
          the sidewalk in front of her.
          He turns and walks around the car. Vivian lies frozen for a
          moment and then suddenly snaps alive as she hears the sound of
          his car door opening and closing.
          She grabs the envelope and crushes it in her hand. She leaps at
          the car and starts smashing her fists against it and the
          windows.
          VIVIAN
          Go to hell! I hate you! I hate your
          money! I hate it!
          We see a flash of Edward’s face as he stares at Vivian pounding
          on his window. She’s completely lost her mind. He puts the car
          in gear and pushes on the accelerator.
          Vivian is still pounding as the car pulls away. In a final
          gesture of rage she throws the envelope at the car and it breaks
          open as the car peels off.
          The money scatters across the gutter as the car drives away.
          Vivian falls to her knees, weak and crying.
          Across the street various shabby-looking people stare at Vivian
          and the money.
          Vivian is on her hands and knees sobbing. She can barely
          breathe. She is completely broken.
          She wipes the tears from her cheeks. She looks down the street.
          The Mercedes is gone.
          For a brief moment she is still, frozen like a statue.
          She reaches down in the gutter and starts to pick up the money.`]

          1. MommyP; So many working girls love that movie, and think they will end up like that. So many men think they can marry a working girl and it will all end up like that. That movie is culturally problematic. I live next to `Broadway` the theatre district, in NYC. The play Pretty Woman seems to be doing well with long lines and many men in the line as well, interestingly, for a change. Hollywood.

          2. Are you sure those men in line were not gay?
            I can see how the story can be problematic in RL. In some countries, a lot of prostitutes ended up that job because they didn’t have a choice. They were usually exploited because they were impoverished and uneducated. They dream of a guy who would be their savior. Just like in the play Miss Saigon which is another story that had me crying for days and even gave me a nightmare. In my home country, some of these women have met a foreigner who doesn’t care about their past and these women ended up being the most loyal and grateful wives for these men. It’s a different story if one of them is narcissistic or a narcissist. It might be a different story for working girls in wealthy countries.

          3. Mommy Pino: Is Madame Butterfly and Miss Saigon similar? I saw one of them, but I do not remember which: She, the Asian girlfriend had a son by him, the Caucasian man, and then he left her country and returned with his Caucasian wife or fiance? And the Asian lady jumped off a cliff and committed suicide, and I guess he would raise the son he had with her? It was fantastic! One of my favorites. Don Juan, Faust, and Madam Butterfly or Miss Saigon, are my favorites, when done well, of course. Taming of the Shrew, as well.

          4. I think that Miss Saigon was based on Madame Butterfly but instead of a Japanese woman, it was a story of a Vietnamese woman. Both women killed themselves in the end. I think you were talking about Miss Saigon although she killed herself with a gun. I don’t think that I can call it fantastic although it is critically acclaimed. I was really bothered by it because of how tragic it was. The actors who play the lead role Kim is usually a Filipina and the first ever Kim and won a Tony award was a Filipina actress Lea Salonga. She did a spectacular job.

          5. Mommy Pino: Usually those lines are mostly full of women to see Broadway plays. With a few men scattered about. So if the men are gay or not in the lines, I do not know , but that play, Pretty Women, sure does interest men, more than the other ones. And I am not exactly sure why. I wanted to see the play American Psycho, but I heard it closed earlier than expected. I should probably check. This is a rumor city. Always rumors. One never knows what play will be a hit or not, despite all the professional critics crying about one play or the other, opening. For example, Hamilton was initially canned by the critics. Yet, one had to practically be a celebrity if one wanted to see it, when it opened, and then it went on the road soon after. I was not interested in seeing it and that is a good thing, because I would have had problems to see it, and I would not even think of paying ticket scalpers some extreme price for a ticket. I do not chase in this town. There was so much hostility over Spiderman when it opened, that I had to see the play myself to see what the hostility was about, from the critics and the other playwrights. The other playwrights were disguising themselves to sneak in and see it, as well, just like some mental practitioners and coaches and such people sneak in to see what is going on in Narcsite, without showing themselves, and some of them were outed despite their disguises, for quietly coming in to see Spiderman. Because some playwrights were telling viewers to not go see Spiderman, yet when asked if they had seen it, the playwrights would say, no, they had not seen it, but people should not go. True story. Spiderman was magnificent. The story line was more on the dark side. I believe that it had too much ingenuity in many areas and would have awakened the public to demand more from Broadway. Politics. Money. Power. The play was amazing, and then I knew why there was so much hostility and envy and jealousy and fear from the other playwrights and so much delight from the viewing public regarding Spiderman. (Reminds me of a certain Creative Intellectual that I know that is way ahead of his time.) So, Spider Man was chased out of town by the power of the other Plays on Broadway. What I am telling you is first hand, and from inside people and from my seeing the play myself. You may not find what I am telling you on Google or whatever, about the play/musical Spiderman. I lived 2 blocks from that play from when the set was being built all the way until it was chased out of town, under the guise that the sets were too dangerous on one hand, and that the story was not done well and a bit too dark on the other lighter hand. I did hear that Spiderman went to Las Vegas, but I heard that years, ago. The sets are so demanding and innovative that the play has to stay wherever it travels and has to be built on site. Very cumbersome and expensive. I believe it is the most expensive and costly created play in history around 90 million dollars I heard at the time. Who knows what happened to the play, Spiderman. The director is the same one who directs the play The Lion King, Julie Taymor. I never was interested in The Lion King, but people like it. HG: I heard some months back that a play called Inheritance is opening, or had opened. I thought of you when I heard the title.

          6. Wow PSE, I had no idea that there can be so much politics over Broadway plays. That is one of my bucket lists in life, to watch a broadway play. I can imagine that Spiderman would be great. I think some culture snobs tend to look down on superhero movies or plays because they think that these types of movies or plays lack sophistication. But most people love them for a very good reason, they’re entertaining! I can see how men might like certain chick flicks like Pretty Woman. My husband doesn’t like chick flicks but he will watch with me any chick flick that has Drew Barrymore in it. He also liked Pretty Woman because of Julia Roberts’ personality and smile. She was a working girl but she had so much innocence. The guy was very cynical and she lightened him up. It’s obviously going to end tragically in RL because he is most likely a narc and she is too vulnerable and will be terribly heart broken just like in the original ending.

          7. By the way, the only thing that i like about Las Vegas is their shows. They always have fantastic shows.

          8. MommyPino: Yes! So much politics. Yes, you are right as well about the snobbery, yet people all over the place were disguising themselves and not disguising themselves to go and see Spiderman, anyway. Purists still went to see it. Celebrities went to see it. Snobs went to see it. Even somber Play enthusiasts went to see it. That play almost caused a War on Broadway. I never saw such a fuss before or after Spiderman. Regarding the snobbery, you just reminded me, some critics were asking, is it a play? is it a musical? What is it? Some other critics were trying to have it both ways, by reviewing a play that they said they never saw. It was so crazy: How preposterous is that. Ms. Taymor threw everything plus the kitchen sink into that play. The sets were spell binding. She really is a free thinker. I remember thinking, I hope she survives all this, with many critics and other Plays going up against her. I even sent her an email to keep her chin up. Who knows if she ever read my email. I do not know her. I am not in her world nor famous, but I still sent her that encouraging email. I felt real bad for her. If Spiderman ever comes around a location where you are, please go see it. There is nothing like it. And, that ingenuity frightened the status quo, and that ingenuity costs a lot of money, as well, and that frightened the other Plays, also. I actually cried when Spiderman left town. Way too soon. There were lawsuits against the play as well because of injuries that some of the actors incurred. But, politics were part of those lawsuits as well. There has been nothing like it with so much drama since then. Powerful greedy forces that did not want the bar to be raised by the expectations of the viewing public, pushed the play out: Many other plays just want to spend as little money as possible and convince you, the paying audience, to use your imagination. Spiderman did the work. I would see The Lion King, her other production, for free only, but I would disguise myself somewhat to go and see that. It probably is very good. But, not my taste. So I would wear a disguise. But, for some reason, I do not want to see The Lion King, really. Spiderman, from the name, was not my taste, initially, I thought, and if the critics and other plays had not fought against Spiderman so hard, I probably never would have seen it. But, I am very glad I did see it. The production I saw of Madame Butterfly was Incredible! The sets and costumes and the performance and the sound. It was stunning and dignified and a very very expensive production. It had a short run, so one had to make up their mind quickly to see it or not when it came to town. So, I did. It was fantastic. They did their job with that production. Thank you for telling me about Miss Saigon. I want to see Miss Saigon. Maybe I can find a production on the internet. I think you would like Madame Butterfly, as well. It is of course also a tragedy, but maybe a different type of tragedy than Miss Saigon. I hope I do not cry for days and days like you did, over Miss Saigon, MommyP. That is sort of overdoing it.

          9. PSE I love that the Spiderman play caused so much ruckus among the hypocrite snobs in the theatre scene over there. I wish that I have seen that play. It sounds like something that I would definitely enjoy watching. It also sounds like the broadway scene is infested with narcs. I can imagine narcs, especially Mid-Rangers would love to be a critic. It gives them a sense of power and influence and a platform to bully while looking dignified and sophisticated at the same time. They don’t realize that the majority of the viewing population don’t care about what they have to say. People watch what entertains them.
            The Miss Saigon made me cried for days, although I want to clarify, I was crying in spurts and not nonstop. I also had a nightmare of the mom begging them to take her baby. I think that it’s because it’s close to my heart and my personal life. I saw my young self in the child of the Vietnamese woman. In Asia, growing up half American can be both good and bad in extreme. The good is that everyone seems to think you’re beautiful because you look different. The bad is you are also picked on for not being like them. You stand out in a sea of people who all have black hair and different tones of brown skin. There is also a stigma for working girls over there in countries that give high value for a virgin wife. If you’re mixed race, there is an automatic assumption that your dad was a service man and your mom was a working girl and it is up to you to disprove that. I also felt bad for the exploitation of the innocent Kim. She was a child when she was exploited to be a working girl. She had no control over her life. I think the fact that she had no control over her life also bothered me so much. I don’t think that I can watch it again but it’s a really good story.

          10. MommyPino: When you look at the original script for Pretty Woman, that I took that excerpt from, she was not innocent at all, on the male and female dynamic. And she had the overly jaded frame of thoughts and conversation that would develop after being in that profession for six years. I read some of it. You can read the script, just google for the full script from the info. I gave with that excerpt, if you want to see for yourself. That movie is lying if it portrays her as somewhat innocent.

          11. MommyPino: I found a well received production of Madame Butterfly with English Subtitles for youhttps://youtu.be/5T_whchilwQ

      2. MB: You dated a Chef ? So did I. Why oh Why could it not work out for me. It was almost perfect. And it was a famous restaurant in NYC. And you know Chefs are Kings, in this town anyway. I always could order whatever I wanted and I had my own little table. And he would bring my meal out to me, Himself, and people would stare at me, because I heard he never brought the food out himself. I have to add Chef to my list. My Grandparents ran a little restaurant/speakeasy when I was growing up. So, I have a cultural familial sort of rapport with Chefs and Maitre Ds etc. They never know why, but I do. I forgot about Chefs. I think I will work on it, when I have more strength. It is easy to find them. Just go to restaurants early, before the happy hour. That is how I unintentionally met the Chef. I stopped in to that restaurant early one afternoon to take a quick break while shopping that day. Just go in early and ask if the Chef is there because you have a question. I believe if you happen to be looking real pretty that day, they will gladly go and retrieve the Chef for you. Everyone working in the Restaurant wants to be on the Chef`s good side in NYC. Chef hunting. Hahaha. They make good money as well, in NYC, and in probably all large cities. Al lot of them are part owners as well.

        1. PSE. I’ve crushed on a couple of chefs, but remember, I’ve never dated anybody. I definitely approve of chef hunting. Just be careful, the profession is swarming with narcs. Such divas most of those guys are. But a man that can cook…yummy indeed!

          1. MB: I am sure you are right. I heard that he was a terror in the kitchen, but I never saw that side. And one of the waiters told me that he loved when I came to the restaurant because the Chef would be in a good mood I bet it is like a military operation in the kitchen. But he cooked very well, especially if one is a foodie. I am not really a foody. But his preparations almost did not look like food. I remember the first meal he brought out to me. I was sitting at the bar, talking to him as he went in out of the kitchen and the bartender and hanging out a bit, one afternoon. It was a small cornish hen, and the 2 eggs looked like eyes and some little house shaped structure was the vegetables, with small roasted potatoes inside, that sort of thing. Then he stared at me, and the bartender stared at me, and I felt on the spot, so I said, Wow. He looked happy and went back into the kitchen. The bartender smiled and went back to setting up the bar. I guess I passed some test.

          2. PSE, that’s special! I love trying new foods although I wouldn’t consider myself a foodie. The chefs used to make me special stuff and I always got to sample the specials for the evening. Nothing like what you describe he made for you though. Of course I was the boss, not the girlfriend. You were higher up on the totem pole!

    2. SP,

      I’m not sure nettles or no nettles with SM is of any relevance. If he’s not using that, he’s probably using other methods for the same purpose, specifically customized for SM.

      Why would he restrict his desire of control during sex? If it’s mutually satisfying for both (and I’m sure it is) then I see no reason for that.

        1. Lorelei,

          “Other methods for the same purpose” – the purpose being control, that’s what I meant, not generating pain and/or itchiness in sensitive areas…

          1. I know. I know. A little hair pulling just seems more benign than itchy vaginas!

          2. Poor HG having to listen to all this talk on v-holes. Jesus Christ.

            While we’re at it, my 1st menstrual period I was 13 and a half and had such bad cramps that I crouched sweating beside my middle school toilet. When I informed my friend she said, ‘That is what drug addicts do.’

            Thankfully, the 1st period was the worst. The rest have just been a nuisance.

    3. Lol. Sweet P, Did you read it? He didn’t address S&M but he gave us details as to why and his purpose. I would quote parts of it but I was turned on and fear triggers. 😊

      1. Yolo, I have read everything HG has published. My kindle section is Tudor’s Dungeon.

        1. Sweet P. I don’t doubt it now we will need to get you a tudorette coffee mug with his original fury logo on it. Of course upon HG approval.

          I read this part and in my little mind I interpreted to have answered part of your question.

          Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

          “I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

          “So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

          “Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

          “Is that your conclusion or of others?”

          “Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same. I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best.
          🤔♥️

          1. Yolo, I think we decided on “Tudorite” which is more gender inclusive but thanks, I’d love the mug! 😎

  26. My ex narc’s “skills” were size and frequency. It sometimes was acrobatic. I enjoyed him, but I never lost my mind. He didn’t know how to touch my heart, and after the abuse really got rolling, he couldn’t anymore. I have never met anyone I could surrender to.

    We all have our limits; flaws; things that keep us from being whole here. Your bodies were designed for being with one person and one person only, all your life. Your hearts were designed for the exertion of loving and growing and being emotionally intimate with multiple people-lovers, children, family, friends—but finally with just the one. Your minds were designed to see only one person naked in a sexual way. In this age of free and easy sex and porn, we are all ruined. Even people who do it “right” still have everything good hijacked by this fallen world.

    Dr. E is not the intellectual equivalent of HG, but that doesn’t make him an idiot. He is doing what he has been trained to do and what he is being paid to do, and trying to get HG to see himself from the commonly believed morality of the masses, or to get HG to want more for himself than just control. There is more, but HG I presume has already seen it and rejected it. It is unlikely you have understood it thoroughly though, having never experienced it, in order to make a completely informed decision about it, however everyone has their own certain kinds of works of art that attract them. It must be difficult sometimes to have to submit to these sessions when you are always 10 steps ahead of the good doctors. It would have been fun to see what dr. O’s reaction would have been.

    1. Caron: I never heard these 3 things that you said: 1)“Your bodies were designed for being with one person and one person only, all your life“. 2)Your hearts were designed for the exertion of loving and growing and being emotionally intimate…but, finally with just the one.“ 3) “Your minds were designed to see only one person naked in a sexual way.“ Caron my knowledge of life and my understanding of interpersonal relationships stem largely from A): Western Civilization, B) The Holy Bible and C) living my entire life in the Northern Hemisphere. And in all my learning this is not the case of a person being designed for, this `Only One Person`, that you speak of. One may choose to live their life in this way, and there are various scenarios that may force someone to live this way, but not in the way you are saying it. I just wonder what is the foundation of your knowledge and beliefs, as I gave you mine.

    2. Caron
      Your second paragraph holds no truth for me at all. Where did all of this information of what we were “designed” for or to do come from? It appears to have come from your imagination/personal belief, but you have written it as an absolute. It is absolute poppycock to me.

      1. I second NA on this. Say Whut?

        If I was ‘designed’ I’d still be with my first bf I had when I was 14 who now works in a casino, drinks Miller Lite every night, has a beer gut and plays pool and darts on the weekend.

        I doubt he has ever read a book in his life. His fave film is Fast and the Furious. Um, no. I’d rather have a rectal exam performed by a nun.

    3. I am looking for the numbers. Assuming 2 means our hearts are meant to love in various ways but there should be a different love for your partner. I believe that to be true and it’s just my opinion. I haven’t been able to love another man the way I loved this one guy. ( non narc). I think..😊 When we have sex it connects us by so many variables hence , the addictions, lack of self awareness and esteem. Shit we are a myriad of people and their sexual experiences. In my opinion.

  27. I still don’t quite understand why you preferred to talk to the female therapist about sex. Was it about transference of her reaction to your sexual partners?

    1. I’m sure HG wanted to observe how much she was moving around in her chair. Giving him furtive glances at al.

      It’s quite a fun thing to do. I’ve done it myself to narcs.

  28. HG Tudor, did you ever need to enforce a physical power when you used any sort of punishment ( collaring, canning, chocking, shibaru, etc etc ) during a bedroom activity in the devaluation stage in order to assert control ? Or your words and other actions were strong enough to make the other person to obey -even against their will? Honestly, I doubt it as you are a mastermind and I could sense upper class upbringing . But I am asking because I didn’t encounter an Elite kind of yours .