Poll : What Have You Gained As A Consequence of Your Entanglement With Narcissism?
It hurt, it caused you considerable pain, inconvenience and quite possibly devastation, but you are still here.
There is much that can be written and discussed about what narcissism has cost you, but on the other side of the coin, what have you gained as a consequence of your entanglement with narcissism?
You may choose as many answers as are applicable and do expand on your answer and experiences in the comments section.
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Be careful what you wish for, don’t ignore the red flags and set boundaries early
I ended up checking them all for one reason or another. I detailed a lot of the things I gained in the loss thread, but I am quite thankful for the life lessons, the deeper understanding of myself and others, deeper connections to those who truly care about me, the realization of my own strength. And I think I might still be just confused and hurt and trying to understand a few people in my life if it weren’t for HG. The knowledge imparted here allowed me an inner peace I would have struggled to find on my own. I am forever grateful.
I could actually tick every one of those! I feel so much more confident and empowered…but I still get the odd surge of fear, panick and anxiety, but it quickly passes and they are becoming less frequent. 💪
After narcissist I gained a self value I never had experienced before…A sharp intuition…And a direct connection with God and the Universe for much much better…..An awakening…..But, i sure paid a high price…..very high…..but was worth it……thanks narcs!
Narcissim has forced me to become a fiercer advocate for my children, my family, those who can’t speak up, and mostly for myself.
I gained an understanding of how deliberate, empty, and loveless a narcissist can be.
A desire to stop people pleasing.
A desire to challenge myself again and take on new projects.
An understanding that I don’t need to be anyone standard of “perfect” – in fact one of the last things the narc said to me was how I let him down and wasn’t who he expected I would be. I take great pride in that. I’m glad I met him down and didn’t turn out to be the perfect doormat for him.
A promotion at work
All these things above probably would have happened with or without the narc. They didn’t cause any of those revaluations or achievements it likely wouldn’t have happened on its own… however… the number one thing I truly gained?
The knowledge of who has my back and who does not. Who is worthy of my time and who is not. I am blessed with a handful of people who stuck by me through thick and thin. And for those people I am so thankful and I love them so much. If it wasn’t for this experince…. I don’t think I would have realized who my true and loyal friends were.
And anyone who sided with the narc? That’s just fine because I don’t need them.
*would have happened on its own…
i love this perspective. very inspiring.
HG ..I read they are doing experiments / testing with the drug MDMA / ecstasy with post traumatic stress disorder and panic attacks . I also read that this drug helps the user feel empathy and belonging , oxytocin is released ….I wonder if this can be also used with other disorders.
Didn’t cause any emotional empathy for me.
Oh, that is very interesting. This is something I have wondered about. How did it make you feel, if anything?
Please see NarcAngel´s comment.
Ah ok, I see it now, thank you. Well, at least you got something out of the experiment. Sounds like a good time. 🙂
Interesting, HG. Maybe your brain is missing a specific kind of neurotransmitter.
Oh ? So it probably doesn’t add it ..if it’s not there. Just intensifies emotions already there .
HG
If I am remembering correctly, you said MDMA made you want to “dance and fuck”, so you did that. No mention of empathy.
Haha. I bet a narc is behind these “experiments”.
Correct
Your legs are very flesh-filled. Fleshful? Is that a word? Yes, I will make it so. Fleshful.
And it’s basically meth—I can’t see any sense for why it could cause someone to have empathy. Sounds like dumb science.
As someone who has an empathic ‘friends’ who have taken MDMA on a fair few occasions I can confirm that they found it made them feel more ‘connected’ to people, and more open and loving. Of course this is a pretty small anecdotal ‘study’!
It’s fascinating that you didn’t feel that emotional ‘connectedness’ HG, adds to the evidence that you actually are wired differently, and empathy is something that you just do not possess; it’s not a choice you’re making.
Correct.
So, HG, if you take ecstasy you don’t feel like hugging and kissing everyone around? Of course answering this question would imply confirming you actually took it so you can answer or not. I have heard psychopaths do not get addicted to drugs, I don’t know whether this is a fact or just a myth.
I just read NA’s comment you don’t need to answer. Sorry, I didn’t see the convo before I asked.
That’s quite alright.
No I do not.
I find this interesting and hope you don’t mind if I chime in with some questions.
I have never personally done any sort of recreational drug (I know, I know… a regular Mary poppins) but I say that because I have no basis of experince to go off of.
My narc however was a heavy user. Both alcohol and marijuana.
His ex gf he had before me told me that he was high and drunk every time they had sex. He had toned that down with me (although im sure he had a joint occasionally without no my knoweldge)
But I also wondered if substance use made the narc feel more connected in the moment and that’s why he used it so often with the x…. or if it just makes the experince more enjoyable for him like it would any other person…
Any insight Hg or too difficult to say?
It’s something I always wish I had an answer for.
It is a fuel substitute for many narcissists, but it is short-lived and not sufficient.
If drugs or alcohol are an insufficient fuel source why do some ultimately choose this route over a relationship? Lower energy?
They do not choose it.
It chooses them?
They have little choice in the matter, thus it becomes their crutch.
I have often wanted to mention this—I was baffled by such behavior.
He claimed it made experiences more enjoyable for him. That it heightened his experience. I suppose that’s probably how anyone would feel ?
If you could are you able to expand a bit on how it acts as a substitute for fuel ?
It engenders similar feelings to fuel.
Ok thanks HG. That… sort of helps 🙂
I have never had any need for fuel or the escape
Of drugs so I have not much basis of understanding the need for either (at least at high quantities) or and understanding of what they do for a person.
Your article Alcohol and the narcissist was extremely helpful.
But I never really understood why he would need it for sex…’I mean… isn’t that act fuelling enough?? I suppose i’ll Never know.
Thanks for your time HG.
Sweetest—it’s just a stimulant, it’s way overrated, lol. I did it once 20+ years ago. Stupid, ugh!
Me too. In Amsterdam, at a party. I ended up hugging and kissing everyone. But I do that without ecstasy anyway 😊
It’s funny I totally forgot about that until now! I guess it accentuates your personality, maybe? Because I’m super affectionate in real life -sober, I mean-.
Narcoholic had majorly alcoholic parents who encouraged him drinking from age 15
His dad once broke his uncles arm in front of him in a drunken rage bc his uncle has swung him around in play.
They “gave away” 3 of his siblings without explanation.
He never stood a chance- against narcissism OR alcoholism.
HG will you define for me the difference between narcissist and narcissistic sociopath? I still don’t know.
Thank you HG, but please clarify: You do not hug and kiss, you do not get addicted, or both?
I do not hug or kiss as a consequence of it.
I don’t think I do either -as a consequence of it-. It’s just a flaw I have. Thank you, HG!
The LMR did ecstasy in his early 20s and he said I would be CRAZY on ecstasy.
I don’t know what he meant.
Perhaps the question could be what have you gained from your awareness of narcissism. There’s nothing to be gained from narcissism for the victims (besides feeding their addiction to narcissists.And that relief is only temporary). Many of the choices on the list are what you gain with the absence of the narcissist/narcissism.
Perhaps, strongerwendy. However, many of those choices on the list I would not have realized without having had a narcissist in in my life in the first place . . . and HG soon afterwards.
If it weren’t for one male therapist mentioning narcissism and then me immediately researching and soon finding HG, I’d probably be in the tendrils of yet another narcissist.
I honestly don’t think one can have awareness of narcissism without having had experienced a narc in the first place.
(I could probably explain more clearly but I am still in the midst of my first cup of coffee this morning.)
Fair enough Lisk, thanks. On the first cup if coffee myself…
I selected all of them haha.
I’ve gained a whole new world. I was confused my whole life and because of HG and the fog is lifting.
I did too!😂😂again, my fast recovery was thanks to HG.
Dear Mr Tudor,
I’ve gained and have a very strong handle on my : –
self doubt
being good enough
my female intuition
my need to fix others
needlessly spending time energy n money on people
volunteering as much
pleasing people
deal breakers
learning to say NO
listening more, asking questions but talking less
extremely guarded of situations n people
awareness of my boundaries
knowing when to leave or stop a wheel in motion
zero tolerance of disrespect in any way shape or form
culling my private life, phone and social media
my questions finally answered
behavioural patterns in people
knowing what triggered my anxiety n panic attacks
putting myself first
loving myself more
gained huge control of my emotional thinking
being able to breathe and sleep again
zero medication
improvement of quality of life
so much support n knowledge from our lovelies here
Just to name a few… 😁
All credit to you Mr Tudor
This poll is a beauty…… thank you
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
You’re welcome
Bubbles
Great list.
Dearest NarcAngel,
Thank you kindly gorgeous one …. lovely to hear from you
Maintaining the need to fix and help others is a doozy for me, as my natural instincts kick in……that’s how I got tied up with the Weasel in the first place
Overall, I’m handling things way way better than before
We still have our dear friend, he’s the 88 year old “victim” grumblebum woman hater narcissist……. not a pretty site
He’s in a very bad way mentally right now and everyone has to feel sorry for him as his whole life has been a complete disaster (we are his only friends) He’s driven every one away by his complaining and is doing a great job pissing his family off
Without the tools I’ve gained here, I would’ve been an emotional wreck
Thankfully, I’m able to deal with his victim status in a more productive manner and my emotional thinking is very much under control
I realise I’m also “challenge fuel” to a narc …. I’m still a “work in progress” on that one 🤣…but at least I know
It’s actually Mr Bubbles who has an emotional attachment to him …he feels sorry for him (I’m more than happy to walk away ) …..however, I will support Mr Bubbles
Anyhoo, we’re off to see our “greater” friends today (might have to reassess him, I’ve given him too much credit) hahahahaha
Hugs to my lovely
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
congrats!! Loved reading this. hahah the volunteering happened to me too. You are right . it is great to gain awarness that we are people pleasing.
I ticked them all.
I selected all the options involving knowledge/awareness. It’s such a relief that whenever the ET rages, I can hear logic say, she is a narcissist, GOSO. I won’t lie and say I’m at Zero Impact, but I know the longing is ET and nothing more. I’ve been very, very fortunate that I only was a shelf IPSS for multiple narcissists because if any of them had promoted me instead of shelving me, I would have tried to marry them and been in a lot worse situation. Before HG it seemed inevitable I would have been ensnared by a narcissist.
I won’t say everything happens for a reason because I don’t see the world that way anymore, but I will say I got damn lucky to find HG. Now, as long as I listen to the logic provided via HG’s works, I can finally break the wheel that I’ve been on for decades.
I love that it’s referred to as “entanglement” as opposed to a relationship, which would refer to reciprocity.
Dearest HG I learned more about people grouping up, and I learned to be extra careful because of the dangers of cliques, gangs, cabals, etc. I learned that Narcissistic Gangs do exist and how they love the power they feel that they obtain when they group up together against an individual, and they love the chaos, if one tries to reason with them. The Devils Pitchfork. The Three Pronged Attack, that you discuss with us. And they never forget you. Very grudgeful. Just leave them to each other. Give them no play and do not participate in their tauntings. I have learned about this in depth from that workplace dynamic of over 3 years. They are not looking for a conversation, but rather they are looking for a way to entrap a person to destroy them. I did not pay much attention to all that until that work dynamic forced me to. Now, I know. Once you know, you go. GOSO. Very insidious and dangerous are Narcissistic Gangs and their Gang Stalking. This learning on Narcsite has been vital information for me going forward and has already benefited me. `Outnumbered But Not Outgunned.:` ~~HG Tudor
Jolly good.
Where can i read more about Narcissistic Gangs?
Did epstein do that to his victims ? Getting together with clinton etc to attack girls?
Boo, it won’t let me vote, but I’d select most if not all of them. Like others here, I’ve lost a lot, but I’ve also gained too. The scales are now shifting and I feel I’ve gained more than I lost, but I’ve felt the opposite for a long tine.
I would also say my gains are not because of narcissism per se, but what I’ve learned through HG. I could still be a gibbering wreck otherwise.
I cannot think of any gain, at the moment .
😢
I’m sorry Discenista. Don’t feel bad about that. These people cause so much damage I am sure you didn’t deserve any of it. And I wish you the best on your healing journey.
I think that you will find a glimmer every now and again of something. I felt just as you do this morning. Then in afternoon I read something here that reminded me of things I’ve gained. Then in evening I was angry and drained and bleak again. Waves. It’s waves… but you haven’t drowned completely.
Way smarter/less likely to be hoovered. This blog has been the best help (all other books read on this don’t come close) I’ve told many people about this blog- sent links/posted links on my social media. I just got a hoover (I KNOW. BLOCK HIS NUMBER. I did immediately afterwards – after the hoover I wanted to see if my instincts were right) with a… link to a song! the famous use of music via narc to convey emotion that isn’t there! Old Me would have responded. New, Vicious HG Tudor Reinforced me did nothing. nada. zip. Excellent! This blog has saved me from wasting any more of me precious time. It needs to be more well known I’m surprised someone hasn’t called the damned Ellen show or whoever. Then HG’s anonymity would be compromised. Still, I am feeling hopeful this terrible cycle has been broken. A Christmas miracle in August I tell you!
Thank you for sharing my work, continue to do so and I’m pleased my work has helped you so extensively.
Oooooh Canned Peaches, link to a song!!!!! Hahaha I know that trick. My song provider is on SPAMGGG as we are talking.
I would love to gain a support group of HG wisened, weaponized empaths,whom empower others instead of keeping them mired in the muck. Archery is fun too.
All of them except new friends, improved finances, and family (such family that I already had – relatively distant – remain so). My only family were my parents, until they unceremoniously died on me. The narc used this against me.
I’m slowly regaining my confidence, but I didn’t have much before she appeared in my life about a year ago. She’d simultaneously try to build up my confidence and self-worth while simultaneously belittling and gaslighting me. I’ve had to renew my wardrobe because I’ve lost so much weight even while she was in my life – perhaps I was starting to fall in love with her? In the end, I didn’t, as I saw through her before I did, and besides, I have a firm control of my feelings. Regardless, I continued losing weight after her discard, after she’d hoovered me, and even more so after I finally discarded her. I could’ve easily have slipped into comfort eating, but my cast-iron determination to lose weight and become fit won that battle. I’m also in an indirect competition against her, as she’s already relatively athletic, and wants to become even more so. Good. That’s enough motivation for me to equal her or beat her, despite the fact I’m starting from significantly further behind, though most of the motivation comes from within me, and not her. I’m already much slimmer, lighter, fitter, stronger, and healthier than I was 20 years ago. We could well bump into each other in the future at a social event or two. I’ll probably grey rock her, but I’ll make sure she notices me (yes, I’ll allow myself to be narcissistic on these occasions).
I’ve now got far greater understanding of who I am, and a better insight into others have treated me since childhood, and why. It’s from that that I’m seeing which changes need to be made, and finally appreciate my strengths and weaknesses so I can incorporate them into a strong, integrated personality. I also try to help others spot the red flags of a Narc friendship, though thankfully none of my friends have such attachments. I keep a healthy distance from those I suspect of having NPD until I can verify that they likely don’t – I then proceed at caution anyway.
I’m most glad I’m regaining my sanity – the silence and peace of mind is glorious, like a warm, relaxing bath after a heavy workout. The trauma bond has nearly completely vanished, and I’m now glad that I’m free (QV the ending of Tommy). I’m regaining my hobbies and interests, as well as developing new ones. I’ve a long way to go, because my narc is also tied in my mind with childhood emotional abuse I received. Either way, I could’ve chosen to just feel sorry for myself after it all, but instead I use it as fuel in itself to take my life in a different direction.
HG, Since I found your site, I have gained more than I can express. Not just in the in-depth way you so clearly and eloquently articulate all aspects of narcissism, narcissists and empaths, but also from all your comments, thought processes and how you conducted yourself. The opportunity to get straight answers and self-aware insights from a highly intelligent N has been invaluable and offers such clarity. Without your mission to leave a legacy, the world of people who engage with narcissists in any capacity would remain in the dark and empaths would continue to endure such suffering. Not so for HGT weaponized empaths. Your impact is truly life-changing on so many levels. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you FYC and you are welcome.
I learned a lot about myself and also human dynamics. I know so much more about myself than I ever did before and that is due to HG and also learning my personality type. The Enneagram has been a very useful guide into helping me understand why I feel certain things and then HG has helped me with those aspects of human dynamics.
I also learned about being HSP and what that means. So this is why I freak out when I hear loud noises.
I don’t think I would have gone into as far as psychological knowledge as I have were it not for the narc experiences from my past. So I am wiser and more knowledgeable. And not that I ever lost interest in my hobbies/art, but I have a new perspective, I sought out new writers and that of course includes HG. (To study even for literary reasons.)
The new fitness routine and wardrobe was more to do with having a better job now. Not that the old routine was ever bad, but as shallow as it sounds, I wear lots of fun, dangling earrings now which I never did when young. I also have some new friends b/c I am not constantly fixating on the person who hurt me, etc. I wear what I like even if it is a little different.
Learning from HG has also helped me with my narc trait of envy. I have been able to talk myself out of it and then come to learn this is just my ET talking, and not my logic. I have seen that having a pretty exterior with lots of frills and glam and material and travel does not compile someone’s worth. I always knew this on the inside, but I admittedly used to compare myself and feel like I came out short or was boring by comparison.
I am ok with solitude and contemplation and I love learning and reading and writing. I am still a work in progress and I am not going to lie and say I still don’t crave external validation/attention for my talent, but I also have learned to let others’ sour perspectives go. A perspective is just that. It does not mean the truth. Just keep going and keep that clouded negative junk out of my head.
I still get depressed and have to fight it, esp. on Mondays. Work in progress. No one is ever static.
My whole life (and I’m not young), I felt both weak & strong, both humble & superior at the same time & never could fully reconcile that til stumbling on your descriptions of empaths in particular. So much of the other empath material online is new age & I just don’t buy into that woo. I read your stuff about super empaths & I’m like ohhhh. And then I read about carriers & was like OHHHH. My husband has joked for years about my nature coming from eastern European ancestry (insert bad Despicable Me accent here): “lose leg, still plow field.”
And I wouldn’t have found any of this, had I not gotten into researching narcissism thanks to the narcissistic entanglements. I’m pretty effing grateful for this. It’s a profound thing to know thyself. And as you say empaths need truth. Now that I have it I feel empowered as fuck, it’s marvelous. So yeah. Thanks.
Pleasure.
Hi the simul! Welcome to the European -Carrier-empoweredAF-Empath group! My original nationality is also used against me as a stereotypical explanation for my excessive emotional expressions so I know what you mean. I’m happy to read you feel stronger after finding HG’s info, so do I!
Hehehe this made me chuckle. I see a “the bicultural narcissistic entanglement” article on the horizon 🙂
LC, hahaha oooohhhhh yes!!!! As in the “I’m gonna triangulate you with your own language to question that you even master where to put the accent marks despite the fact that I have no fucking idea because this gives me delicious negative fuel” kind of example?
LC, or in the typical “I understand this is a cultural difference, maybe you don’t understand American guys” despite having dated a few and married one? Or in “you are so sensitive but it is understandable given your cultural upbringing” type of BS? Oh I have so many of those!!!!!! Never been so culturally misrepresented as when being with Mr Somatic.
I could use that one too, LC. All three of my main narcs have been of a different nationality/culture. It adds another layer of confusion, especially if there is another language thrown in, because you don’t know whether some of the differences are cultural or psychological. Since HG is in one of those relationships right now with SM, it might be of interest to him. And plenty of us on here could add our thoughts.
I voted for quite a few. But my passion to educate others stands out. I have dedicated my Twitter page to spreading awareness of narcissistic abuse. Also, I have started telling my daughter about narcissism. She is only 8 but she is definetly an empath. I worry she will end up dating a narcissist at some point when she is older. At this young age I haven’t gone into much detail but she knows narcissists act nice but really are not and we need to stay away from them. When she is old enough to date I will be telling her all the red flags to look for.
She is aware my ex was a narc. She spent a lot of time with him and she saw how he treated me and I want her to know what he did was wrong.
I also found out my dad is a narc. So I have gained a better understanding of myself. I grew up always thinking there was something wrong with me. This has caused me anxiety and depression ever since my teen years. Now that I know there was never anything wrong with me I have a lot of work to do on myself.
I know I’ve said similar in other posts, but it’s the ability to finally see the contrasts between life with the narc in my life and my life now, with my freedom. I was so blind for so long.
I took for granted so much in my life pre-narc. I took for granted my mental health. My physical health. My spirit. My true friendships. My strengths. My work.
But when you live every day in a stressed and hyper-vigilant state…..When the anxiety is crushing, but you put that down to love…..When you have serious physical symptoms trying to tell you “Warning! Warning!”, but you ignore them bc you’re too busy being conditioned, and broken down, and then eventually broken all together….. it’s hard to crawl out of that space…. to trust yourself again…. to feel light and free.
I take NOTHING for granted now. I have so much more patience. I have so much more peace. I wake up ready to go.
None of this would have been possible without my entanglement.
None of this would have been possible without HG and his wonderful readers.
I live in hope. And it feels bloody marvellous!
Mai x
No, you live in logic Mai51 and I am pleased to see how my work (and a bit of the readers!) has assisted you.
Hope and logic aren’t mutually exclusive HG…..
I’ll always keep my hope….. I just now know logically, what and who is worth giving it to.
I know which one I use and which I will not.
And, I do so wish you’d just call me Mai. Mai51 sounds like a robot….. something I truly am no longer!
I realized I’m a contagion empath that has tried to save my father and all my partners – a vast collect of lesser and mid-range narcissists – and that I was biased to toxic relationships because I had a distorted approach of what is love.
A wide-eyed opening information is what I have found. And it changed all my perspective about partners. Sometimes, I found myself identifying narcissists among the people I used to admire.
Even from within the howling, screaming agony that followed my disengagement, on some level I understood that although the process would not be pleasant, this experience would ultimately serve to make me stronger. And as I mourned the person I used to be, her optimism, her trusting nature, her hope, deep down I knew that at some point in the future I would relish the rebuilding which would have to follow. Lived experience has taught me to trust myself to heal, to persevere, and to improve in the face of tragedy and loss. I has only been 11 months or so since the disengagement commenced and I am still very much deep in that process, but it is happening and that’s not worth nothing.
I have not yet felt all that remains to be felt with regard to this, but I’ve felt enough of it to know that the worst of it has been felt, processed and filed away. I take a great deal of comfort in that.
The costs of my engagement with my narc are many and terrible, and I won’t recount them here. But for every shattered remnant of the person I used to be, there is something new and exciting growing, surging to take its place. Nobody eats acid looking for a bad trip, but if you end up having one you can still learn from that experience. It is that capacity for growth that lends value to our darkest moments, and I’ve held on to that truth dearly over the past year
I absolutely love this post brynnstar, and relate to each, carefully crafted word. Thank you!
Thank you Mai! Hope you’re having a lovely weekend!
I answered something similar in the other post regarding knowing myself better, making new friends, and, it goes without saying, access to the best information about narcissism in the world. But I will add a couple of aspects I forgot to mention: improved fitness!!!! Being with such a Somatic animal made me want to improve my shape and look great (mostly to compete with his swimming outfit pics at the beginning). One of the reasons I knew he had another IPSS is because she started posting pictures in her bikini too, which made me think, here goes another idiot like me wanting to impress Mr. Vanity! However, running everyday quickly became a form of escape and a way to detox from negative thoughts plus the endorphins make me feel better right after. Another positive note is my sex life with my husband has gotten better. And that’s all I will say.
Oh gosh, I have gained so much, but mainly the ability to say no and to not feel guilty about it. My boundaries are much improved! I will always say that I have no regrets because not only do I retain some fondness for MRN, but the whole experience, including interacting with HG, has made me think very hard about what it is that I want in a partner. I don’t have a list but I recognize what I do not want when I see it. Just the other day I said no to someone I did not want to go out with. He didn’t do anything wrong but I could tell from our brief interactions that we would not connect, so I said no. A year ago I would have gone out with him just because I would otherwise feel guilty. Not anymore.
Well done.
Thank you for helping me! I didn’t even know that I didn’t have any boundaries. Speaking of which, I just talked to Matrinarc. She asked me what I had been doing and I told her. Instead of responding in a conversational way as if she were interested in the answers to the question she asked, she immediately launched into what she has been doing and went on and on about that. She then said ‘that’s it,’ which is how she ends conversations. Before, I would have snapped at her but now I just sat there and said ‘that’s nice’ and ‘okay bye.’ All thanks to you. Maybe you can learn some lessons from me about how to deal with your Matrinarc :).
Exactly! I just did this the other day! Said no to someone who kept telling me how great we would be together when I knew we wouldn’t, had tried explaining laughingly like I did at first with my narc, as it’s come up before with this person. Finally I just told him he was not hearing me, not respecting my boundary, I said no, did not want to date him. That’s it. Haven’t heard from him since. May have lost a friend I’ve known for 20 years. But for 20 years this has repeatedly come up and made me run and feel guilty. Since the last escape from my narcissist, I no longer feel guilty for saying no.
Well done, Cyn! It does feel good to say no, doesn’t it? And ‘you are not hearing me’ is the perfect response when someone persists. It’s also surprising how little guilt I feel after saying no. I’m not mean about it but I don’t give it another thought anymore either!
Honestly I had no idea about narcissistic abuse and finding HG’s info has been a life saver. I thought that choice was “cute” but clearly I am not alone in those thoughts by how many votes that choice received!
I would like to add – a much needed reality check.
No marriage is perfect. No spouse is perfect. But the glimpse I had of what life could be like with a narcissist really gave me a wake up call to how fortunate I am. I am married to an amazing guy, a loyal partner, good provider, good father. He adores me and accepts me for who I am. I never question his loyalty or his feelings. I am never confused. I have the kind of life many young women dream of. After 20 years, things can lose their spark. We are busy and get frustrated and allow things to fall by the wayside. This is where I became vulnerable to the narc’s advances.
It was a reality check from my romantic, magical thinking and the idea that maybe there are these cosmic connections to people that feel so powerful, they shouldn’t be denied. I can see the manipulation in all of it now. I suppose that could be filed under “insight into how many narcissists have been in my life.” I am aware now that there have been/are, several.
In addition to that, I selected:
New friends – you all <3
A passion to educate others about narcissism
A desire to protect those nearest to me from narcissism
The best info about narcissism in the world
I’ve gained the ability to tell someone immediately when they cross a boundary, when I am right and don’t care to explain. One of the things I told my narc the last time I went back was that the moment I felt the familiar kick in the stomach of a lie followed by the denial, divert, gaslight, I was gone,again. That’s what I did. I no longer second guess a boundary in any way with anyone. A friend, someone who asks me out, no one. I will never again second guess myself. Critical thinking is ok. Ignoring your truth in favor of another’s is not.
I’ve learned it’s ok to hate. It’s not poison and I don’t feel guilt for saying it or feeling it.
I loved the narc more than my own life. I would have died for him and truth be told I almost did. After he discarded me, I began improving myself and doing things I had always wanted to. I experimented with different hair colors, changed my style, got a new job, started making more money, traveled across the world, and renovated a house. I was heartbroken that he was not there to experience these life changes with me. I wanted him there when I faced my fear of flying, and I wanted him to move into my new home with me. To be honest, part of my motivation for doing all these things was the hope that he would come back to me and be impressed, and deem me worthy of his love. Pathetic I know. Needless to say that never happened, and it never will because now I know what he is. Now everything I do is for me and my newfound freedom.
Kay – good for you!
I could have written this, Kay. I loved him more than life and would have given him my soul if it would have helped. Everything I did after he left for good was to impress him and make him realize I wasn’t the POS he told everyone I was, and to entice him back. I know I am not a POS, and that he is a POS, but you know how it goes being manipulated by a narc. It’s been 10-11 months, and the first thing I did that was for me was tackle the fuel pump on my Wrangler myself. I didn’t do it to impress him, I did it because I want to be the kind of woman who isn’t intimidated by such things. I haven’t heard from him in days, and I don’t even care. I also broke it off with normal guy so I could learn to not fear being alone, and to like my own company. That’s going about as well as the fuel pump job, which is to say three weeks later and I might finally get that Jeep back together tonight. I do have boundaries now, though, and standards, and I owe that to the narc. When I met him, I was so desperate I would have gone with anyone who gave me the most attention. That desperation wounding I did to myself by behaving narcissistically in my own relationships. I am pleased to say I don’t miss the narc anymore, but I do miss normal guy. I don’t know if there is a match there, but when I no longer live in the narc’s house, I will try for normal guy again. For once, though, for the first time in my life, I am not going to start anything with someone else until I no longer miss normal guy. I owe a lot to the narc. I’m not angry with him, though I can get angry when I think about what he did. I don’t love him. I recognize the addiction, thanks to HG’s writings. I definitely don’t want him back and have accepted that the man I loved never existed. This guy who replaced the façade is really not worth even being friendly with. Soon I will be able to give him back his house and eliminate most of the need to even communicate with him. Meanwhile I’m learning new things, like that I tend to complain about things even though I’m enjoying them, like putting my horses in movies and changing the fuel pump. Completely new ground for me and doing it alone, so I complain because I’m insecure, but I’m doing it anyway and having a great time.
Kaydiva3
How great to read that you have turned it around to do for yourself and be happy. You can be very proud. I don’t even know you and I am.
kaydiva3,
Consider yourself very lucky that he never came back.
I did the same as you. After I was discarded for being “abusive,” I did wonderful things for myself, but I did so mainly to impress him, wherever he was in the world. And he did come back after 11 months. And he was very impressed. And then we got back together. And then we moved into together.
And then he wasted three more years of my life.
Now I am doing wonderful things for myself again. I am hoping and praying that he never finds out.
Im glad this poll was posted bc its too easy to focus on what was lost but thats staying stuck in the past and victim mode.
Just looking at the list to choose from made me realise ive gained a lot despite feeling damaged in a lot of ways. My confidance is healing but i still find myself damaged goods at times and that innocence of trusting people is gone. I do find myself being cynical at times and am trying to get back to the more positive me. To give people a chance and benefit of the doubt until i see red flags then be more leary.
Ive gained a whole lot of knowledge about npd, people in general and even myself. Mostly myself. Ive learned about my weaknesses. My ego and where certain aspects of it stem from. Why i became a target.
Ive also learned better how to protect myself and live among narcissists. How to better navigate around them bc they are becoming the norm. There are way more normals, narcissistic people and narcissists than empaths. Its imperitive to understand them to get by in life and avoid constant conflict. It also helps to get ahead in life when youre able to get along with all sorts. Before understanding npd i had no clue how to coexist with narcs and was constantly in turmoil. I expected something from them that id never get and i left myself open to abuse.
I have a renewed interest in hobbies and passions now that my heads out of the clouds and im no longer in fairytale mode. Im more focused on my life again and what makes me happy. The “real” things that make me happy not illusions.
I feel a sense of responsibility to help others with what i know and if i suspect they are or were with a narcissist ill gently bring the topic up. Im constantly teaching my kids what ive learned here and am arming them for their futures. My son i worry about being on the autism spectrum bc hes at a disadvantage but im still teaching him about npd or narcissistic tactics and how to best deal with them. Id love to help others not make the same mistakes i have.
I feel my empathy has strengthened but i am more cautious with who i am empathetic with and how open i am with people. I dont wear my heart on my sleeve like ive done in the past. I still make mistakes bc its in my nature to trust and want to share but im way more cautious now.
Oddly im more forgiving of people now. Youd think id be angry but no i forgive the narcissists in my life bc i understand them. I dont forget what theyve done or accept the behaviour but i do forgive it bc i understand why. I realise my own flaws and faults and realise they have weaknesses and damage that is where the personality disorder stems from.
I look at things from a wider angle lens now instead of zooming in on the pain of individual situations. Were all on a journey in life and we all make choices. Our choices impact others its a reality. I think we take npd too personally instead of taking a step back and seeing it for what it is and thats damaged people. Ive learned it really is all about them and never was about me or my shortcomings. I just got entangled with narcissists that are messed up themselves. Now that im aware its easier to stop focusing on why and move ahead focusing on healing my own wounds in a constructive way.
Npd has hurt me in a lot of ways but it has helped me as well. It will always be a process but thats life and were meant to move ahead and progress and learn. There will always be setbacks but those are more learning opportunities. Enjoy the ride of life good and bad bc itll never be perfect. Too many arent happy until they reach the perfect life but real happiness is accepting and working with imperfection and being grateful for each day.
CM,
‘Npd has hurt me in a lot of ways but it has helped me as well. It will always be a process but thats life and were meant to move ahead and progress and learn. There will always be setbacks but those are more learning opportunities. Enjoy the ride of life good and bad bc itll never be perfect. Too many arent happy until they reach the perfect life but real happiness is accepting and working with imperfection and being grateful for each day’.
I 100% love this paragraph CM! I feel as you do. You explained it far better and in that calm manner you have.
Life is not perfect, people are not perfect. We are now educated by the Master on Narcissism himself, I’m forever grateful for all the tools he has given us.
CM
So perfectly stated on so many levels!
I had ticked all the boxes except new wardrobe, improved finances, my sanity, my family, my freedom. I never lost any of those so cannot say I gained them post narcissist. But all other options I most definitely saw an improvement on, once the narc was out of my life.
All in all I am a much better version of me for having encountered such a person. As bad as the encounter was, I have come out of it as the victor…. stronger…. wiser…content with my lot and much more loving towards me.
I will never let him know how much he has impacted me and made me work on myself to find again and love again that lady I see in the mirror…..Thank you ex Narc.
I have not gained anything by being the target of different narcissists – only destruction and devastation.
I do have a better understanding of who I am and I am more aware of my weaknesses but this is a long process that started long before I learnt about Cluster B disorders.
Most honest.
E.B
You say you are more aware of your weaknesses, but surely it has also had you inventory your strengths? They must be considerable given the number of narcissists and years you have dealt with them. Celebrate those.
NA,
They are not considerable but I do have some. I am aware that few people can put up with my situation. They are not used to.
i think learning about yourself is HUGE. that’s awesome. Don;t sell yourself short. Keep going and kudos to you
Thank you, Amanda.
A drive to educate myself about narcs and when I notice a person who is in an questionable relationship am able to direct them to this site for their self help!! I wish this shit on no one and the pain, shame and guilt is too overwhelming for most to handle on their own hence HG with tools to survive and the knowledge to accept it was all just mind fuckery…..I’m still battling the shame part so wish me luck!
All of above except my family, my sanity and my health. My family kept me sane, as they always supported me. I posted previously I was diagnosed with endocrine illness due to the stress. With God’s and doctor’s help it was cured after the divorce.
And I gained a lot of knowledge- the most valuable lesson to learn : What is Not love. Prince Charming does not exist( not that I believed anyway but ).
And I found an excellent life coach- a person named HG Tudor.
Thank you, Master.
Hg approves and you are welcome.
HG Tudor, Life Coach I haven’t thought of him in this way. Where have I been?!?
Didn’t I just ask this in the last poll?
All of the above.
Well I thought I was going nuts but thanks to HG and all of you I have come to my senses and seen what was really going on. Consequently, I’ve regained my sanity, tyvm.
Hg I didn’t learn anything from being involved with the narc.
I learned everything here from you .
Kiki
HG approves.
Second this!
Third!
I know what I haven’t gained. The period after the G in this graphic!
What have I gained as a consequence of my entanglement?
Knowledge. Knowledge is power.
I have been told my whole life that I am strong – I never knew why people would tell me this but they did. I remember being told this by my mother when I was 10 and by my aunt at a similar age. So I always acted in such a way, even through the most horrendous of times, the punishments, then the apologies, the fear, the dread, the confusion. I took everything thrown my way knowing inside I was burning with strength and survival. I have a beast inside me and it protects me.
I unleashed my beast during my nex entanglement. From this blog I learned who I am and why I enjoyed toying with him towards the end. I could see his next steps before he took them, I sensed his darkness and fought him with my own. I allowed him to do things to me to see if he would, I was analysing him as I knew I might not ever have the chance again to study him up close.
I know in the face of adversity. I will not be on my knees long.
I know that it’s been a journey to get here.
The first year was tough, I never left the relationship unscathed, I pined for him, I missed the highs and lows, I adored him with all of my being, I was his, he owned me. And then I was alone. That was hard after everything he had done to me. How can you miss somebody like that – it’s crazy!
BUT I have gained:
**Confidence! Life is short! I solo travelled last year for the first time at the age of 41. I’m doing it again this year!
**Identifying red flags: I’ve avoided one potential disaster relationship because I heeded HG’s words.
**Educating: I’ve sent women from around the world to this blog for assistance, women I’ve met on my travels and women I work with.
**Self worth: It’s a work in progress but i’m not settling for any Tom, Dick or Harry. I know my worth.. finally!
**Insight: All this time I thought I was a Narc because he was adamant I was. HG confirmed I am not, I realise now I fought back, I gave as good as I got, I manipulated and toyed with him. He couldn’t control me, he projected his narcissism on to me and I carried it – the abuser label through our relationship. I am a Super Empath, I know who I am now.
**Looks: They went…. right out the window. My avatar is who I was when he met me – I was blonde. He called me Miss Piggy and made me feel insignificant. I dyed my hair, I changed into something I am not. I lost my confidence and became so downtrodden I stopped caring about my appearance. Not anymore. I am the woman you see in that pic.
2yrs in October FREE.
Life is beautiful, amazing and there to be discovered and shared.
I will not stop believing in HOPE. Hope got me through everything! I know HG’s views on Hope, but they are not mine – and I’ve realised that’s ok. I don’t always have to agree with the Master.
I look forward to reading something positive from all of you. This post will inspire those suffering and in the midst of their addictions. I wish I had fallen on this post as a stickie to the top of the blog when I first got here when the craving and confusion had possessed me.
I just got an article on qualitative comparison between narcissism and techniques of totalitarian regimes accepted for peer review. HG, you’re getting like 3 citations out of this. And thanks!
Well done, I would like to see your article.
Dear Isabel: Congratulations. On another note, I also hope you have plan B in place for your interesting work. From my experience, peers are people too, and sometimes when something very interesting is submitted to them, it startles them, and they wait on it. And it is just sitting there in the process of being considered to be published. Sitting and Sitting. Your article sounds very timely and exciting and important and needs to be out and read by many, and I hope you give them a timeframe to act on it, within your own mind, as an autonomous person. HG Tudor as you know, is a pioneer and renown on how he has expanded the understanding of Narcissism, and he also has contacts with many people that work and publish in the Mental and Political field, and he also can show your work to be published, if needed, and advise. And I am sure you can submit to them, your peers, other articles in the future, but this article that you addressed today, needs to get moving, and your peers may not understand the urgency. We do. Your work is too interesting to sit too long because it may be very innovative. I have seen people`s work sit for so long and never published, and then something similar comes out almost the same, a few years later. This happened to an acquaintance of mine. Five years later after a submission he made, he heard nothing. And then it came out from someone else where he submitted his work. He tried to get a lawyer, but it was cost prohibitive for him to continue, as a Doctoral Student. True Story. So please keep in mind what I say, and you are not alone with HG Tudor involved. He never waits for these people to catch up with him. He inspires me in so many ways to be progressive and a leader for myself. And he provides private consults for business type of situations as well: HG is a Behavioral Genius. I do not know how to speak academia, but I trust you understand what I mean, underneath all my words. Thank you for listening to me. And again, congratulations.
Isabel, what journal are you submitting too? Could you post if and when it gets recommended for publication (if HG allows on his site)?
Excellent Isabel!
Congratulations, Isabel!
I second, third and fourth those congratulations, Isabel!
Isabel, my most sincere congrats, that’s fabulous news. I understand if you don’t wanna share the article here for privacy issues/copyright infringement, and to preserve you anonymity. But I’d like to ask you what field of study it is on. You mentioned you’re developing a qualitative comparison, so I want to think it could be pertaining to Communications or Psychology? I may be wrong.
Isabel woah that sounds so interesting!