Offspring – The Narcissist and Children
I have detailed previously why it is that we regard the act of impregnation as a material asset in the narcissistic armoury. It is not only the promise of impregnation, but the act itself and what this act creates that produces a whole host of benefits for our kind. This is the approach adopted by numerous of our kind, those who see children as additional appliances from whom fuel can be drawn, pawns to be used in the repeated triangulations which can be orchestrated with the primary source and the method by which we are able to claim the achievements and the accomplishments of our issue as our own. Not all of our kind adopt that approach. There are those of us who regard the idea of offspring as a threat and a hindrance to our agendas.
Why would we want someone to come along and steal our limelight? From the moment a child is born it is sufficiently pathetic that it requires nigh on twenty four hour assistance. It cannot walk, it cannot feed itself, it cannot clothe itself or wash itself. It must be tended for on a repeated basis. If you were to look to us to do this, you would find that there would not be any assistance forthcoming. Not only are we notorious in our desire to shirk menial tasks (unless we see that there is some considerable benefit in us doing so) but we do not see why we should have our needs pushed to one side in order to facilitate the care of another. Even though that child is a product of our loins, there are those of our kind who adopt such a view. You ought not to be surprised by that. We behave the same with our parents, siblings and wider relatives. We are like that with friends of both short and long-standing duration and naturally we behave in such a way with the person we supposedly love, our intimate partner. Why then would you expect anything different from us in respect of a child. In such circumstances therefore, the decision not to have children would be regarded as a blessing I am sure by your kind. We could not countenance that all of the emotional attention would be directed and fixated on such a helpless being. Here we are, magnificent and brilliant and you choose to direct your fuel to somebody else. That is an insult indeed to us and a mighty criticism which would wound us considerably.
Our resources would also be sought for this new arrival. Time, energy, finances and so forth. We regard our resources as ours alone and begrudge sharing them, unless such largesse brings additional reward for us. This selfishness is necessary in order to preserve ourselves and the fact that a child needs our resources is not going to change that mind set. We do not do anything just for the sake of doing so. There must be an ulterior motive to our actions. Pouring our resources towards somebody who will be oblivious to this for some time is not something that finds favour with some of our kind.
From your perspective we know you regard us as selfish for behaving this way. We regard it as self-preservation. You are the givers and the carers, we are not. If you wish to judge us for adopting such a stance, so be it, but for those of our kind who regard the issue of children as something to be avoided, that position is most unlikely to alter. We see only loss. Loss of our resources and loss of our fuel. Whilst some of our kind regard the additional benefits which can be derived from having children (the binding of the primary source, additional fuel provision, potential for traits and triangulation etc.) as worth obtaining despite the likelihood of reduced fuel from the primary source and reduced resources, there are also those from our ranks who assess the situation and decide it is not a price they wish to pay.
What is behind that? Why is it that some of our number opt to have children and others refrain from doing so? I cannot offer a definitive answer, although I consider, from my experience and those that I have engaged with that the proportion of our kind who decide to have children is greater than those who do not. I suspect the temptations of further fuel provision and triangulation prove quite the draw. It also highly likely that the idea of securing our legacy through children proves attractive as well. Seeing our own image and knowing that it will, more likely than not, outlive our mortal selves, does appeal to the need to maintain our idea of omnipotence. See how mighty we are that our influence lives on in our offspring and will do so in their own as our dynasty is forged. Such a notion does provide its own appeal.
What of me? What tipped the balance for me so that I opted to remain child-free in order to remain light on my feet, unhindered and fully-resourced. Was it the factors I have described above which caused me to decide that having children was not for me? In part yes, although I readily admit that the other elements and benefits from having issue are attractive. No, whilst I weighed up these various benefits and disadvantages it was something from my past which proved to be the deciding factor. It was something that has resonated with me for some time and something that somehow buried deep inside me and stayed there for a while until I decided to act on it and made my decision as to my destiny in respect of children. The idea of seeing those in my own image wending their way through the world and following in my footsteps was a strong pull, a strong pull indeed, but ultimately it came down to something else. This may be applicable to others of our kind as well, but for me the decision came down to this.
I could not take the risk of him or her or them reminding me of you and what you did to me.
Those words will never be forgotten.
21 thoughts on “Offspring – The Narcissist and Children”
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What do you think about Greta Thunberg’s parents, HG?
I have not analysed them EB.
Even if you manage to find a strength to forgive a person who did you wrong, you can’t erase your memory.
I do wonder if there are elements of midranger in greaters.
Thats such a sad statement bc it reflects the amount of damage done but as humans were resiliant and strong! Ive had a lot of damage done to me over the years and some days my confidance can be low but damned if ill allow that to dictate the rest of my life! No im stronger than that and stubborn i wont allow someone elses dysfunction govern what i want in life and who i want to be.
That being said i have a lot of respect for those that think long before deciding to have children. My narc has decided not to have children and i respect him for that. I feel sorry for him that he is missing out on that part of life but i think hes wise. He realises the drawbacks to his lifestyle and i do think he realises he cant offer what a child needs and deserves which is love and sacrifice. In the same way he wont marry he realises that this is the best decision for him and also the ones around him.
Not everyone is meant to have children. Can they biologically? Sure but it does not mean they should. In some ways i feel at times maybe i shouldnt have but i have the capacity to work on me and break the cycle of damage done to me by being the parent i wanted and needed. I make many mistakes but i always make sure to admit to my mistakes and say “im sorry”. That has been my decision but many cant or wont work on themselves and opt on the side of caution and refrain from bringing children into the equation and for that they have my deepest respect!
When I think of his children I feel sick. I can see how he has alienated them from their mother. I can see who the golden child is and who is the scapegoat. I can see how hard the scapegoat tries to defy his mother in order to gain his father’s approval. Narc speaks of how he was always their primary caregiver. I’m sure that had a lot to do with him causing her to question her own abilities in every aspect of life including parenthood. Poor kids being used as pawns between the two of them. Constant legal battles over custody, schedules and child care issues. All by his doing.
HG,
Now that you have changed your dynamic and are with SM, have you reconsidered having children?
No.
When I was with my husband he told me his ex that he had a child with prior to me was Satan herself. He talked horribly about her and how she had tortured him etc . He made me hate her. When the child turned 11 she took him for an increase in child support. I was fine with that because I felt the amount we paid her was ridiculous anyway. He however, was not amused. He didnt get his son that weekend as we always had. That weekend became a myriad of excuses for the next few months. He just turned 18 and he hasnt seen him since he was 11 and right before court. When he stopped seeing his son, we stopped having to deal with the drama of his mother too. I was kind of ok with it in a horrible admission although I thought it was disturbing that he not only didnt see him but never breathed his name or wondered about him. This past November, while I was at work and we were not fighting and nothing truly was going on, my son who was 11, called me and said dad said he would be right back and it’s been 2 hours. My daughter from a previous relationship said…mom..he moved out. He and I have my son together. He has not contacted him or seen him since. I wish I knew that the signs were there. That he would inevitably do to us the same as her did to his ex and her son. Walk away from an adult and leave me shattered is one thing, but to torment a baby is sick and psychopathic. What terrifies me reading all of your posts is that it is only disengagement as hes living a new life with a girl 20 years younger than me and with a child of her own. He has slashed my tire, tormented me on social media, fake accounts to reach out. Even as far as attempting to connect thru Hulu. I know he will be back to kill me. But this time I’m prepared. Thanks to this site.
I had not considered that a child might remind me of my mothers criticisms, a terrifying thought. I feared I might turn into my mother eventually and let my own future family down, neglecting them the way she neglected me. Realizing what she is thanks to your work was a relief beyond compare.
My motivation for having a family of my own one day is to have that intergenerational transmission of abuse stop with me, to end that cycle and to be the last in my lineage to suffer it.
If I could ensure my children will grow up in a safe, emotionally healthy household that provides them with a solid foundation to build their own lives upon, that would not only make me incredibly happy, but would also be the ultimate victory over my mother and what she has caused me. This thought manages to motivate me when nothing else will anymore.
You always play a long game and you’re great at it, has this been something you’ve considered as well? To win over your mother and her poisonous influence in this way?
Desiree—I’m quite pleased with how well my children are doing currently. Everyone is happy and thriving—academics and emotionally. I feel optimistic that we are coming out of the fog intact. I’m very reflective of my father’s antics at this point in time. He was constantly talking about not having sex with my mother, hitting on my friends, inappropriate in front of me, left a nude picture (Polaroid) out for me to find, killed my cat and said it was my fault, on and on. I was always like WTF but “Oh this isn’t real so it’s not happening..” It’s no wonder I grew comfortably into catering to more of the same behavior. Thank the heavens he never actually touched me but the damage was substantial. Had he actually crossed that line I’m not sure I’d be able to be intact. It is repulsive.
Very powerful and the last few lines hit it home.
I have a few ideas regarding this topic. Having watched two female narcissist co workers talk about and have children… I would say, that for women in particular (regardless of where they fall on the spectrum) it is seen as one of the ultimate achievements in life. Obviously this view is shifting in the modern age, women are waiting longer to have children or deciding not to have them at all. But overall it is seen as the pinnacle of being a woman… that we are “not complete” with out it.
For narcissistic women this is can be a major part of their facade. Unaware of their narcissism they truly think they WANT to have children and are not thinking about the major repercussions it will have on their life. You talk often of control in the now… and getting pregnant is a good way to secure that. During their pregnancy they will be doted upon, treated like a queen (since they will demand it) not understanding the lime light will be taken away from them. They do not understand… Or even THINK about caring for the infant, they are only thinking about building the “perfect family” and being the woman who can “do it all”. Obsessed with having the career, kids. So suddenly the kid is here and they start to see how the attention is taken away from them… what will most of them do? Hire a nanny, pass the child off to a family member full time (grandparent etc) and MICRO MANAGE every aspect of the caretakers involvement with their children whilst taking credit for all the “good” things and blaming them for all the “bad” things.
TBH this kind of thing even happens with normals and even empaths, but the way a narc will deal with it will be like everything else they deal with… Manipulative. Whereas they normals and empaths won’t try to manipulate care takers or micro manage to the same degree.
Men? well… lets be honest. Most are still conditioned to believe that child rearing is not their responsibility. I’m not saying there aren’t helpful men out there, but more often then not you will find the woman does the vast majority of the labor within the home and child care is no exception. The narcissistic man is (likely) with an empathetic partner who would easily take on the role as primary care giver. They will use this to their advantage to shove all the work onto their spouse while they do not make any changes to their own life and carry on as normal. And due to the fact that this is still seen as “normal” the man will easily get away with not participating much beyond a Facebook or Instagram post that makes him look like father of the year.
Both sexes will take advantage of the fuel source, triangulation etc. But the advantages to the facade I would imagine is one of the biggest factors. Also.. just pure lack of knowledge as they are not thinking about the child before having a kid… they are thinking about themselves and how they will prove a point to the world, secure their appliance etc.
Before everyone jumps down my throat… I am a mother. I have children, So I know all about raising kids and how difficult it is. But these are the observations I have made watching narcissists with children. It is only my opinion.
HG……All I can think to say is I am so sorry for what happened to you. And for that matter all the other N’s. As I have always said it is not their fault. They did not choose it be a N.
Hugs…..
Your Humble Empath
Kim e
I feel the same. There is definitely a part of me that feels compassion toward these people who were molded into this. It was not their choice to end up this way.
Joanne,
The problem with me feeling like that, even tho I know it is true, is it makes it harder for me to go NC and keep it. I have to convince myself that he doesnt know what he is doing but that doesnt make it right.
I agree with both of you…I feel compassion, but I am also aware it held me back.
I saw my narc yesterday, and Child Protection came up in conversation and he commented that he wished they’d been around when he was a kid. I know it was a Pity Play, but it doesn’t make it not true.
BU
I just CAN’T even imagine what it must be like for you to have to continue to deal with him under your circumstances. My head would be a complete mess. And then when it comes to something like this type of pity play – I really just don’t know how I would react. Huge kudos to you for staying strong!
Hi Joanne – thank you for your kind words. 🤗 It’s not too bad at the moment, although there are a lot of ups and downs, and some periods of time are better than others (but, hey, what’s new, we are dealing with narcs)! I have made a conscious decision to back right off from him wherever I can – I can’t affect him seeing my husband, but I can make it so I am not around when he does. I’ve been very creative and until last week, I hadn’t seen him in two whole months (bliss). I’m also insanely busy at work and I genuinely haven’t got time to make small talk with him when he does his text hoovers – and (bonus) I’m too busy to think about him at the moment too!
It would be so easy, if it was a normal person, to feel sorry for him, but he has made my life a misery by befriending my husband, so I’m pretty much out of sympathy for him. I used to be a complete mess, like you describe, but the pressure he has put me under, plus the length of time this has being going on, has reforged me. I recognised the fact of what he said, but I didn’t feel any pity. Not any more. He is my adversary as far as I am concerned. X
Well done, BU! It sounds like you are managing it all well, between avoiding him and also controlling your ET. I didn’t realize he was still hoovering over text! Wow! He really needs to GO AWAY!
It makes total sense that your sympathy isn’t activated by his pity plays. Good girl! That is a huge step, albeit a slow one. You are in the zero impact zone and that is wonderful!
Thank you, Joanne! X