To Control Is To Cope – Narcissism and Its Creation
To deal with and to address the vagaries of life, human beings have developed coping mechanisms. These coping mechanisms vary in terms of the extent of their use, their impact on the user, the impact on others and the frequency of their deployment. Some coping mechanisms are regarded as ‘healthy’ and others as ‘unhealthy’ and some may be a hybrid of the two, dependent on the extent and duration of usage.
Distancing is a coping mechanism. You may distance yourself from a situation and people, but prolonged and extensive distancing may lead to isolation with the associated problems which such isolation can bring. Short-term distancing can allow recovery, re-charging and avoidance of an ongoing harmful situation. Longer-term distancing which is targeted on one or more chief proponents of harm can lead to near complete removal from toxic and harmful influences. No contact of course is a coping mechanism which incorporates distancing as a central tenet of it and is the most effective coping mechanism to apply with regard to your recovery from ensnarement with our kind.
Crying is another coping mechanism. The release of tension, held-grief, feelings of misery often evaporate as a consequence of somebody crying. You may be told ‘have a good cry, you will feel better’ and indeed many people have testified to the beneficial impact of doing so and thus crying achieves release and often acts as a signal to invite comfort from others. It is a coping mechanism deployed by people to deal with a stressful, worrying or hurtful situation.
Self-harming is a further form of coping. The distraction caused by the painful response of cutting (cutting being just one form of self-harming) enables an individual to relieve the pain of certain other feelings, it achieves a release, a distraction and also enables that individual to exert control in circumstances where they feel unable to exert control (or to the extent that would make them feel comfortable). Self-harming whilst a coping mechanism is regarded as a negative form of a coping mechanism.
Expression of feelings. Being able to ‘talk it out’ and ‘air your feelings’ is a coping mechanism also. The ability to talk to someone else who will just listen, even if they offer nothing in response or even just to talk to yourself about how you are feeling (be it generally or in relation to something specific) enables people to experience a sense of release, a lightening of a particular load and it often brings clarity in terms of understanding themselves and finding a way forward.
There are many coping mechanisms that humans deploy – some are conscious and others occur unconsciously.
Narcissism is one such coping mechanism and it is a powerful and invariably hugely effective, although its effectiveness does depend on the school of the narcissist and which particular outcome one is having regard to. The outcome of our narcissism is something that I shall address in a separate article.
Narcissism must maintain the construct (the false self) and imprison the creature (the true self). Collectively this is the Self-Defence of the Narcissist. This Self-Defence is achieved through the The Prime Aims(fuel, character traits and residual benefits).
Central to this Self-Defence and the achievement of The Prime Aims is control. The narcissist must at all times have control of his or her environment and the people within that environment which of course includes you. Whether you are a stranger, an acquaintance, a friend, a colleague, a relative or a romantic partner. Whether you are a neighbour, a date, sister or brother, that man from the corner store or fiancée – you come within the fuel matrix of the narcissist and you have to be subjected to the control of the narcissist.
This control has to be exerted second by second of each and every day. Every passing moment must be owned and governed by the narcissist. We must exert control all around us, this has to be complete and total as if the very clouds were tethered by us. Why is that?
Because once upon a time the narcissist did not have control.
That lack of control meant the narcissist felt powerless, weak, vulnerable and exposed.
The combination of a genetic predisposition and the imposition of this lack of control created narcissism as the coping mechanism. These two ingredients combined and gave ‘birth’ to narcissism as a means of coping with the world, with the lack of control that the world causes for individuals. Many people have no issue with this lack of control, others have alternative coping mechanisms and then there is us – the narcissists. Around one in six of the human population of this planet became narcissists in order to cope with this loss of control.
Narcissism allows the imposition of control through manipulation. The imposition of control allows us to achieve the Prime Aims. The achievement of the Prime Aims allows our Self-Defence and thus we survive and we thrive.
Narcissism is a coping mechanism.
People believe that abuse is theingredient in the formation of a narcissist. It is an ingredient, yes, but there are two ingredients in the formation of our kind. The first ingredient is the genetic predisposition, if you will this is the fertile soil which provides the basis for the narcissism to grow and flourish. The second ingredient is the lack of control (of which abuse is part of that lack of control) and this is the ‘seed’ which is placed in the fertile soil of the genetic predisposition and thus narcissism ‘grows’ as the coping mechanism. For some, the soil is there but no seed ever arrives and thus no narcissist. For others, there is no soil but there is the seed, but again with one essential ingredient missing, there can be no narcissism.
Genetic predisposition plus lack of control (at a formative stage of life) equals narcissist.
What does this lack of control (at a formative stage of life – i.e. childhood) look like?
- Abuse. Whether it is physical, emotional, sexual or psychological, any form of abuse towards us amounts to a lack of control. We could not defend ourselves against the abuse and therefore this is a lack of control, over ourselves and over those who meted out abusive harm towards us. The abuse is an act of commission – we were beaten, molested sexually, told we were useless, insulted etc.
- Isolated. Whether this was being locked in a cupboard under the stairs, prevented from playing with other children, kept apart from other family members, not allowed to participate in group activities of any nature, given silent treatments and treated as if we did not exist, isolating and ostracising us in some form again constituted a lack of control. We were not able to control our own interactions, someone else did this for us and to our detriment. We were controlled by another and thus lacked control.
- Neglect. Whilst there may not have been abusive acts of commission , there are abusive acts of omission. Therefore we were not given a safe environment, we were not taught effectively (be it about ‘facts’, relationships, behaviour, responsibility), we were not emotionally supported, we were not fed, clothed or protected, we were not shielded from an abuser of commission and/or we could roam where we wanted. Once again we were denied control over ourselves because we were not provided with the assets, resources and tools to achieve effective control over our lives and this neglect (lack of control) exposed us to hurt, pain, disease, injury, loneliness and/or acts of abuse through commission.
- The Golden Child. Everything we did was lauded and praised. It was invariably held up as a glowing and shining example of brilliance, even when it was not or the praise was excessive for a valid achievement. This meant we lacked control in the sense of earningachievements in a valid fashion. We had greatness thrust upon us without being ready for it, without having earned it and without appreciating it. Everything came to us too easily and this also amounted to a lack of control. We had no control over the outcome from our endeavours, we felt no compulsion to achieve and apply endeavour because whatever we did (bad, mediocre or good) was met with accolade, praise and the lavishing of ‘how brilliant’. We were denied the ability to control our own destiny.
- Shifting Sands. Where we experienced Shifting Sands we had a lack of control because the environment around us at that formative stage lacked constancy. One day the sun shone and the next day, even though everything else appeared to stay the same to us, there was a thunderstorm. On Monday our painting was declared to be ‘Rembrandt in the making’ (a la Golden Child) and by Friday our painting ‘was the work of a moron wielding a potato for a paintbrush’. The application of black and white thinking by the aggressor created an uncertain environment, one of push and pull, idealisation and devaluation and we had no control whatsoever on which version was going to appear to us. There was a lack of control in our lives through uncertainty, unpredictability and those shifting sands.
- B Graders. ‘It’s good but not good enough.’ ‘You can do far better.’ ‘You are not trying hard enough.’ ‘You are letting yourself down but moreover you are letting me down.’ These phrases and those similar to it encapsulate the loss of control felt by those who are ‘The B Graders’. Each time the hill was climbed and the summit anticipated, another hill suddenly appeared. The effort was okay, decent enough, acceptable but never that which met with approval. Keep going, learn more, be faster, swim stronger, climb higher, shine brighter. There was no control because we were never allowed a moment to settle, to cherish that which had been achieved and to reflect. We could not establish our own parameters of achievement and satisfaction but instead we were always beholden to the standards of another which ultimate proved to be unobtainable standards and thus we had no control.
- The Facsimile. We were shaped to be precisely like the aggressor. Sometimes this was entirely at the behest of the aggressor and sometimes we saw how this individual behaved and decided ‘I want that power also’ (usually unconsciously but sometimes, such as was the case for me – consciously). Whilst you may think a conscious decision to copy the aggressor and thus seize power was a form of control, it was not – this was actually a product of the already establishing narcissism and thus a symptom rather than a cause. Where the aggressor caused us to be moulded just like them – forming our opinions, our views, our behaviours, our likes and dislikes, what we wore, what we ate, where we went, what we did and in some instances alongside this there was an unconscious decision to mimic and copy those behaviours and characteristics, we were once again denied control.
Thus, whether we came from an impoverished background, a gilded background, a seemingly run-of-the-mill background, any of those environments had the potential to cause a lack of control in our lives. Take this lack of control and add it to the genetic predisposition and thus our coping mechanism of narcissism was given birth to.
Narcissism became our way of coping with the world.
Narcissism allowed us to exert control.
A lack of control equates to a lack of power.
A lack of control equates to being vulnerable.
A lack of control equates to being weak.
A lack of control equates to being worthless, meaningless and unimportant.
When we lack control, we start to fade and will no longer exist.
A lack of control now returns us to the lack of control then.
This must never happen for too long and thus we were formed from this lack of control adding to our genetic predisposition and in order to survive and thrive we must never, ever lack control for if this persists, well, then, it ends.
We must have absolute control. And that means absolute control over you, him, her, them but most of all YOU.
73 thoughts on “To Control Is To Cope – Narcissism and Its Creation”
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Wow, HG. I am beside myself. The cogs are squeaking as they turn inside my head. So many confusing feelings. So much to think about. So much now clicks. I can connect exactly how the multiple childhood traumas he was subjected to warped his thoughts and led to his maladaptive coping techniques. I’ve known they were the root cause, but didn’t understand the exact process that led to his seriously messed up perception of the world would end of people (he has labeled himself a misanthrope, a VERY accurate description of himself). Thank you so much for writing this post. I know doing so had to have been difficult for obvious reasons, and I want you to know that you have my utmost respect, admiration, along with my deepest gratitude.
Now I need to work on my side of all this, I’ve got to get my head back on straight. I don’t know if I can do it. Why I
can’t I hate him despite everything he’s done. Worst of all why am I even entertaining the thought of not leaving. I know what he is. I know he’s not going to change. I have zero expectations of him…his behavior or feelings for me (because I know they never existed despite his proclamations to the contrary). None of it upsets me anymore, and I just roll my eyes when he starts with the verbal jabs about my perceived weaknesses. I know why he does it and I don’t take what he says seriously. I’ve never believed that we would be a couple again after our last breakup. It’s simply not going to happen. We are roommates only. I also know how to stay (mostly) on his good side. The majority of our interactions now are actually very pleasant and when he starts snarling, I know to stay the hell away from him until he indicates it’s acceptable to be around him. . I’m so damn confused. I should hate his vile guts, but I simply cannot. I actually feel very bad for him. It’s not his fault he became this way. You have described fuel as being your lifeblood and 100% essential to your kind’s very survival. How can a person be condemned for trying to simply survive? He doesn’t know any other way to survive. It must be a terrible nightmare to live with the fear you’ve described in your posts. How can I blame him for that? He didn’t ask for it and didn’t deserve the horrible things done to him. It’s like he never stood a chance. . I can’t ever go into the gory details, but suffice it to say that the things that happened to him as a little kid shouldn’t happen to even the worst, most evil among us. Brutal to the extreme. So confusing. I can’t be mad at him or hate him.. I wish to God I did hate him.
Taryn
It might not be his fault and you don’t have to hate him, but you don’t have to become his babysitter or responsible for the things he does either. If he harmed someone terribly that you love would you excuse it because he had a tough beginning and expect them to also? Well he is harming someone you love. Slowly eroding them over time with his moods and behaviours. That someone is you. That erosion over time of yourself and sacrificing your happiness will not change it. Nothing will. Your emotional thinking is conning you into making excuses to stay. Your logical thinking is fighting back by having you write out what you did so you can see it. Read it back as someone you love and want to be happy (if you had an adult child in this situation for instance). What would you say to them? Would you encourage them to stay and submit to it because he had a bad beginning? I think we both know the answer.
Everything you’ve said is absolutely correct. I’ve thought of these things before, and indeed I would have a completely different perspective and reaction if the empath in question was anyone but me. It’s way messed up, I know. I just can’t imagine him gone from my life. He is extremely intelligent, a Greater like HG without a doubt. I love our discussions about a range of topics and I learn so much from him. Oddly enough, I also feel protected, which is something I don’t understand myself. Lastly, and this is going to sound really strange, there’s the issue of the cats. Three of them to be exact. We’ve had two of them since the day they were born in 2011, and the third was a stray we took in. I’ve never been a cat person. I’m a huge bird person and always will be. But I’ve grown super attached to these cats. There’s no way he’s going to let me take them with me if I leave. That’s an issue because he doesn’t tend to their needs. In the past when I was disabled and so physically couldn’t change it, he wouldn’t change their litter box, and they’d eventually start going all over the house, in laundry, behind furniture, in the bed. Yet when they did, he would be furious with the cats and he actually told me one time that the cats were doing it just to piss him off. The fact that the cats didn’t want to use a nasty litter box that he refused to clean didn’t enter into his mind. I tried to prevent this from happening by reminding him that the litter box needed changing. Every single time, his temper exploded and he would snarl and say all kinds of nasty and mean things to me.
It was a no-win situation. Now that I’m no longer disabled, I’ve taken on the task of caring for them. I clean their litter box regularly, feed and water them. If I’m gone, he will not care for them properly and it kills me inside to think of them suffering from hunger, thirst or living in filth. Yeah they’re only cats, but dammit they’re my babies. I can’t walk away knowing the conditions they’d end up in. So while the other things I mentioned make it difficult for me to get out, the cats are the biggest reason.
HG, when a person temporarily picks up a new accent (just because they’ve spent a few hours with someone who has a strong accent) or they adopt local dialect/ phrases very quickly from another simply because they’ve been exchanging lots of texts, the word ‘lush’ springs to mind. (Never thought I would actually be able to bring myself to write that word down Hahhaha ewww I feel dirty and I have never uttered it from my lips) is that an indicator that person is an N? Or someone with weak/poor boundaries?
It is an indicator, no more and is not determinative.
Thank you HG!
And why when someone gives you the attention, love , affection, trust, don’t you just except it?
Mr.H this by far the best article you have written. My ? Is so who are you really and why are you hiding behind a facade? Are you a hidden from yourself? And why?
Very clear how narcissism became a coping mechanism. My empathetic nature allows me to understand. But as an enlightened empath why should you get a pass?
You should always give us a pass, ie a wide berth.
Ha! Yeah, a wiiiide berth, as in, go around, avoid contact at all costs. Don’t even park next to one. Lol
I think that is why I am enjoying giving a a narc the widest possible berth there is by placing him on no contact. It does give me some solace to know he hates it. After reading “No Contact” I value the tips you shared that will help me keep him there. I knew what a Hoover was but now in recognize it without having to be confused first and wonder what’s going on.
He is just like you and he happens to be my brother. Precarious place I find myself in the family environment.
Dearest HG: So many paths to choose how to live. This song, MARTYR, was on my youtube feed today: I’ve been a martyr for love
And I will die in the flames
As I draw my last breath
As I’m closing on death
I will call out your name
I’ve been a martyr for love
Nailed up on the cross
While you’re having your fun
As the damage is done
I’m assessing the cost
I knew what I was letting myself in for
I knew that I could never even the score
I’ve been a martyr for love
I need to be by your side
I have knelt at your feet
I have felt your deceit
Couldn’t leave if I tried
I’ve been a martyr for love
Tortured every hour
From the day I was born
I’ve been moved like a pawn
By the greatest of powers
I knew that I would have to suffer in vain
Aware that I would never outgrow the pain
I’ve been a martyr for love.. ~~DM
This article is one of the best on the site.
In the very brief conversation my narc and I had about his narcissim… he put himself
In the “Golden Child” catergory. Said that he found me good for
Him because I kept him grounded and wasn’t constantly putting him up on a pedestal (clever intelligent bastard to use that line for me to stay). Which didn’t work… thankfully.
Anyhow I must admit. It was pretty difficult to feel bad for him. I felt like “oh poor you you were worshiped all your life… must have been rough”. And even after reading this I still feel that way… all those other reasons seem sad and tragic and his…. just doesn’t. I can understand how it would give someone an inflated sense of self… but it’s hardly tragic.
If anyone has more insight to that particular point that may soften my view I’d be interested in hearing it. It might help me understand things better.
I have two questions about this:
First, when you say loss of control back then equals a loss of control now. Are there certain things from the narc being abused or neglected that causes a trigger for them? Let’s say for sake of this example a narc was abused as a child by always being criticized by being shouted or yelled at? Would the narc still seek fuel via all other possible ways but prefer not to receive it via way of shouting or yelling because it reminds them of that sort of abuse? Or does that not matter as Fuel is Fuel? Yes Piano Boy is the reason I am asking this. He seems to not care about how he engages with me and how he gets his Fuel (The majority of the fuel he gets from me is from sexual interaction) however he has a propensity to get very rattled when he is yelled at. He will shy away from me and say that he’s nervous of getting yelled that. That he doesn’t matter how we talk or deal with one another just as long as I don’t “yell” at him. I guess I’m just wondering how the need for fuel (I.e. yelling or hitting) clash with the traumatic memories of the abuse (being yelled at or hit, etc.) I mean would the narc somewhere subconsciously recall the horrible memories of abuse and not want to witness or enact similar behavior? I mean don’t usually those who are abused suffer within? You would think by reenacting the same type of behavior that it would cause more trauma based on what happened to them? I hope this makes sense.
And my second question… How is it possible to experience the things on the list above and NOT become a narc? I was not abused as a child but I was severely neglected emotionally. Does that mean that the soil wasn’t there (no genetics) but there was a seed? (Neglect). That instead of becoming a narc and blaming others that I blamed myself for what happened? I know I have some narcissistic tendencies (selfishness being one of them since I continue to engage with piano boy and he’s married and I don’t care that he’s married.) Many of your articles have me wondering if I am a narc.
There are three interactions, (1) Pure Fuel – no control issue, (2) Challenge Fuel – fuel but a control issue (3) Wounding – no fuel and a control issue.
1. Is not a problem.
2. Is problem because of the threat to control which must be addressed.
3. Is a problem because we are being starved of fuel AND our control is being threatened.
Our creation from a genetic predisposition and a LOCE means that any threat to control unconsciously returns us to that first LOCE and that must be prevented, stamped out, halted as quickly as possible come hell or high water.
Question Two – by the absence of genetic predisposition or not sufficient exposure to the LOCE.
HG.
In your answer to Gabby, you stated #3:
Is a problem because we are being starved of fuel AND our control is being threatened.
So wounding can be worse than just the threat of control being lost?
Wounding is the worst outcome for us.
HG Wounding is the worst outcome for us.
I am blown away. My second lesson of the day. I always thought it was loss of control.
And so that is why wounding raises the Hoover bar?
wounding is a loss of control
yes that is why wounding raises the hoover bar
I thought loss of control was the worst outcome too. Piano Boy often complained that he felt like he was “losing control”. Most of the time he felt depressed and nervous and when I tried to help he would mention losing control.
Wounding is a loss of control AND a lack of fuel provision
So if he trashes himself and I agree with him it does not mean a loss of control. And it is still fuel even if I agree with him saying crappy things about himself? Is this why he insults himself so easily?
No.
You are issuing challenge fuel which amounts to a threat to control.
You should be focused on not having anything to do with him at all, therefore you would not have any concern about whether you are wounding or causing challenge fuel.
Sorry that was my alternate question from another post which I meant to reply elsewhere in the thread….(re: him trashing himself). So if he complains that he is “losing control” that means that he must have been wounded somehow. I am trying to connect all of this. He went on a tirade of feeling like he was losing control because he texted me asking me if I knew anyone who drove a black Honda Civic. (I did not). This Honda Civic was following him and parking next to him at work and the owner of the car (who he did not know) kept “staring him down”. He was panicked and paranoid and freaked out. When I tried to calm him down he kept saying “I feel like I am losing control here, I feel like I am losing my mind”. So a car following him (who he does not even know) and someone giving him an evil eye can wound?
If wounding (ignoring) raises the Hoover bar is this why I potentially may be getting a ton of demands and messages—more than ever before? Paragraphs of cursing etc—and multiple demands via email? Just weather the storm? Wait it out? (As I have been)
Indeed. Provide no fuel and reject control and ultimately the narcissist will be forced to go elsewhere
Thank you for the reply HG, I did ask this little while ago and I hoped you would eventually have gotten to it, so it is much appreciated with how how busy you are.
Interesting re: the 2nd question not sufficient exposure to the LOCE. I often find myself hungry for attention from others but at the same time scared shitless and I push them away. I have my own push and pull in general. Yet with Piano Boy I find myself always pulling.
If we insult the narc with shouting or putting them down then it will challenge or wound. Yet when they insult themselves (i.e. saying stuff like “I am a bad person”) if I were to actually AGREE with him and say “yeah you’re a fucking shithead” instead of my usual response of “no you’re not” would THAT wound? I mean he said it. I am just agreeing ya know?
No.
1. If you shout or put down a narcissist you do not wound. You are issuing challenge fuel.
2. If you agree with the narcissist putting himself down, that would also be challenge fuel.
Wounding can only occur when threes no fuel.
2. What the hell lol
He’s not “afraid” of being yelled at SF. That’s just an excuse to try and make you feel badly for your behavior instead of focusing on his which is the actual problem. In fact he probably loves it when you yell at him and plays the victim.
I will say though.. that speaking calmly with them does tend to work a lot better then not. I assume because we aren’t providing a lot of fuel in those instances ?
Also, and more importantly I heard you use some past tense words in another comment.. does that mean you went NC?!?! 😀
Empath007….
Then why did he say “I don’t want to talk if you’re going to yell at me”…. reverse psychology perhaps? The irony is I have NEVER yelled at him on the phone or in person. Ever. Only via text.
And no, I haven’t. 🙁
To control you.
SF I’m just curious when you read these honest responses from HG… does it resonate with you?
Go back and look at his advice on previous threads and really think about what he’s telling you.
If you felt fine with the arrangement with your narc as it was you probably wouldn’t be coming on here.
I’m just trying to understand…. I’m
Not trying to come across judgemental. It took me several attempts to leave my narc… and look at me… I’m still on this site. 🤣
But I can’t understand not even wanting to attempt to go no contact… why don’t you just give it a try (perhaps you have tried before) but just try it for a week and see how you feel taking more control over yourself and the situation… if you slip up you slip up but at least you tried you know? Baby step. One day at a time.
Show your kids how strong thier mom is ❤️ I’m routing for you.
Empath 007….
I have tried so many damn times. Longest I went was 5 months once. He was the one who asked ME for that break. WTF he went no contact with me like I am the narc. Anyway, the most latest update to my story is that last week (over text and phone calls) Piano Boy told me he was in therapy for sex addiction and was getting help. He said he wanted to meet up and talk. He said he was going to tell me everything about the last 17 years of his life. Some things I know, somethings I know partial and somethings I know nothing. He said he would share everything with me, and that he would tell me the truth. In person. So I would know if he was lying based on his body language. He even told me to bring a list of questions for him and he would answer all of them. I was all “how am I supposed to know what is what? you contradict yourself all the time”. He said “total honesty, I promise”. This sudden need for a catharsis came right after a break that he needed. A break he needed since he (again) is trying to “do the right thing”.
That is just the brief summary of the situation. I have been on the fence about having HG decipher some of the stuff he is saying and the explanation he is giving me for the reason why he wants to have this sudden “honesty conference” with me.
Lather. Rinse. MAIM.
That conversation is all about him.
Mine had the same sort of “honest” conversations. It did not bring us closer. It did not help things. It did not take away my hurt. It made no change to him whatsoever. You can believe it makes you special but it doesn’t. Nothing ever will in his eyes. And he will make up lies in order to make you feel sorry for him.
It’s good to hear you tried it… this time you end it instead of him. You can do it.
So then what is the point of his need for a confessional catharsis? First he says he needs a break. Then he says the intimate part of our relationship is over but he will “love me purely” and be my friend. But he needs a break from PHYSICALLY seeing me because it makes him feel like he will “cry”. Oh and he will be tempted to indulge.
Then a week later he says he wants to see me, to confess all of his wrongdoings. We can “meet in a public place like a park or have dinner”
Then this week he says he will come to my house and we can talk there. That we will arrange something (so far nothing has been arranged yet in any capacity, next week is “tentative”.
So first he wants space. Then he wants to talk but wants space in terms of physicality. Then he wants to meet publicly and now he wants to come to my house. If that is not going from one side of the pendulum to the other then I don’t know what is.
But the sudden confessional he is planning. Why?
Well yelling is fuel. He might be more passive aggressive so perhaps it’s not his normal argument Style. But he’s doing things to provoke you and then blaming it all on your “yelling”
You can stay calm. But the outcome will always be the same. He might pretend to listen to what you are saying calmly… but will always continue to do as he pleases regardless of your delivery.
SF in response to “but the sudden confessional he is planning, why?” It is clear to me in almost all your messages you have not grasped the concept that he is playing games and trying to exert control by acting contradictory… There is not grand explanation beyond that. But I can tell you are so deep in it you are confused. I understand that feeling of confusion I was there once myself. And certain things still confuse me about narcissists.
Keep reading HGs work… Keep reading his comments to you and what they mean and what he is trying to say. Hopefully you can start to understand this relationship your in has no momentum… its never going to go anywhere… 10 years down the road do you want to be stuck in the same spot ? or would you have liked to move on ? Those are really your only options.
I hope you figure it out soon. Have you consulted with HG?? I feel like that would be useful for you. He is the only one that can give you the most accurate information to get you out. But then you also have to accept it… and implement it.
All the best to you.
He told me to make a list of questions and that he would answer them all truthfully….
It is the perfect chance to call him out on some stuff I perceived as bullshit. And to get other answers too. I kind of want confirmation that he’s been with men. It would explain a hell of a lot!
Your truth seeker trait is being corrupted. You will not get full answers, you will want more answers, you are being led on a merry dance (again). Whether he has been with men would not explain a hell of a lot, you think it will, but all it will do is make you then ask questions about why he chose men over you, or why does he like men, or why are you not good enough. You do not need any answers whatsoever from him.
You already have the answer. He is a narcissist.
Everything HG said… do not ignore what he is telling you. I have literally lived through the exact same scenario you are talking about SF…. the “honest talks” and all that happened was what HG said.
You still have it in your head that he’s gonna come
Around… he’s NEVER gonna come around. EVER. You sound…. soooo confused SF. He doesn’t care about your questions or what you have to say… he’s leading you on. He doesn’t care about you…. at all.
Do not keep ignoring what HG is telling you it’s the truth.
Gabrielle,🌷
I couldn’t find a spot to reply where I wanted to, so this will have to do! I saw all the “confessional” BS, that your narc says he wants to do…and look at what just *contemplating* what he has to say is doing to you…it’s making your mind engage even more about him — to whirl with possibilities. Right there is your answer. What does he want to do? Create more chaos, confusion, questions in you…get you sunk in deeper…why, you ask?
Attention.
Control.
FUEL.
If you listen to his drivel, realize it might all be lies — it will, at least, be a mish-mash. Also, he may not even show up…but if he does, how are you going to protect yourself from getting dragged deeper into your ET? He knows your vulnerabilities, so what lengths will you go to “prove” to him you are the One? BTW, you’ve probably noticed I refuse to call you any of the narc-related names you choose for yourself on here…that’s because I want you to remember you are the beautiful name “Gabrielle,” and you are your own person — not some half-bit who should be owned by a whiny narc. Also, is there any way we stop calling him “Piano Boy”? That makes him sound harmless…and he’s not.
CiF
Agreed. Let’s drop this PB strumming her pain with his fingers bullshit and use a name more appropriate. PT (pathetically transparent), or PA (periodically available) seem more appropriate (and those are as nice as I could get).
Use narcissist. That is what he is.
“Narcissist”…simple, accurate, direct. Although I think we should occasionally throw in “whiny.” Or “pity-player.” He’s a mid-ranger after all.🥱
You’re right HG in sticking to narcissist. We would never think to call Cancer something cute or fun and that’s what he is to SF – a Cancer.
Accurate, NA.
NA,
Yes, no “strumming pain”…isn’t that part of a 70s song? Anyway, let’s can that. Plus, every single time I see “PB,” I think “peanut butter.” It’s just wrong, on many fronts.
“Strumming my pain with his fingers” is such is not only on point musically but also an accurate description of how I feel….
killing me softly….with his song…
Stop listening to it then.
Sometimes you make me laugh so hard, HG…and then I wonder, “Wait, maybe he was playing it straight.”🤔
This. Stop listening to it, then. Gabrielle, why do you care if your narc wants to confess things to you? Practice indifference. It doesn’t matter to your life what happened the last 17 years of his. And I agree about the fucking or not fucking men too. A dick is a dick no matter where it gets put and a dick is a dick no matter where he puts it.
Calling him “narcissist” seems too boring. I need to find the humor. A few other nicknames that were used here way back when were “Peasant” and “Fake Fucking Church Dude”. I am fine going back to that.
Use narcissist. You need to. You are ducking the issue with the other labels.
Hi Gabrielle, I agree, you have to call him narcissist. While I understand your need for humor to cope, it’s best to look at him for what he is without humor, without trying to cope. See him for what he is in your life. He is a disease in your life. You don’t need to cope because you have the power and option to just get rid of him. Get rid of the disease in your life. You don’t need that narcissist.
Gabrielle,
With due respect, I think he needs to seem boring/generic…because he is. For me, even assigning him an unflattering name gives him too much power/emotional attention. I know what we call him may seem minor, but I do think it can affect how you think about it all. Words matter. But you call him what you like~as for me, I’m going back to “narc”😉
Hello HG,
interesting post – thanks for sharing. Apologies if this sounds a tactless question and I hope you’re not offended by my asking… can narcissism be “cured”? Or does this early psychological trauma cause the child to be permanently altered – “emotionally stunted” not a turn of phrase but literally meaning normal healthy development is prevented, brain structures changed? What’s happening at a neurological level? I’m guessing you might know.
I’ll away and do some reading. Can’t speak for others but personally thinking about this now I’m quite repelled at the thought I’ve engaged romantically with someone who is categorically unable (if I’ve understood it right, and my suspicions are correct) to empathise, and wired to manipulate and control, *because they are damaged*. It’s a horrible thought, def not a romantic beauty and the beast story. I know we’re talking about grown adults here but if childhood trauma never went away there’s something queasy making about it. I think so anyway. Again, no offence to anyone intended if I’ve phrased this badly :-/
No, it cannot.
your controlled responses are incredible
I agree.
A sadistic liar thinks it can be cured, by him abusing the narcissist and posing as the original abuser
Well thought out, concise article. as always.
From my other readings, this same environment can also produce codependent/empath types, right. Narcissism is one of the 2 outcomes of these circumstances??
I might have gotten away from the Narc today. It’s a little early to celebrate, but it seems he’s agreed to leave me alone. 🤞
Hi congra—the statistics on who is produced from different environments would be fascinating. The variables are so numerous though that such an endeavor would have to be broken down quite tediously among other matters. I will say that in my work world nearly all of the males I work with have been incarcerated and are not high functioning at all. I do suspect some had more inborn aptitude though—was simply never fostered so it withered away and became even more blunted by apathy and often substance abuse. Anyway—it’s a fascinating subject. **I am also certain that not all of these men with a history of incarceration are narcissists but most indeed are. Too many individual elements to persuade etc. Many females as well that I see in my work life who classify similarly, but not quite as high in percentage. I’m aware of the incarceration rates due to some screening I have to do on everyone so it’s a “subjectively objective” experience if that makes sense.
Thank you for this article HG 💖 it clears my confused mind.
So I’m not a narcissist. As a child I was in control. Now I don’t need control
In-depth insights with regard to narcissism at its core. I feel incredibly grateful to be a person who in my personal life finds great peace in the freedom to allow things to take a natural course.
HG I love the image that you chose for this article. This image shows how it feels to be a child of a narcissist. The young lady was being hugged or pulled in by arms coming out of the wall that she cannot hug back. It seems like she was being hugged but it she was really being taken in by the wall as if the wall is absorbing her and capturing her. She doesn’t have any free space and there is an additional part of the wall that is restricting her left arm so she could not get away. This isn’t love; it is ownership.
Also I have been reading a lot about locus of control and one empath who is a survivor of narcissistic abuse said that narcissists have an external locus of control when bad things happen to them. It is never their fault and they blame everything even God and Satan even when they don’t even believe in them for every bad thing that happens to them. But they have a strong internal locus of control when good things happen, they will take credit for them even when it was because of someone else’s efforts. I have totally seen that with the people that I think were/are narcissists that I have been involved with in my life.
Then she pointed out another interesting thing about codependents and their locus of control. Codependents have a strong internal locus of control when it comes to their entanglement with narcissists because they believe that their behaviors can control or affect the narcissist’s behaviors and they even blame themselves for the narcissist’s poor behaviors.
MP—it’s a brilliant way for them to stay shielded isn’t it?
It is! But I think they’re only able to do it because they don’t have empathy.
Excellent post, HG. Don’t know how I missed it the other two times. It is very clear. Contextualizing narcissism in other coping mechanisms – ones with which many of us are more familiar – is a great way to make this disorder understood.
With the utmost sincerity I thank you for this explanation. I needed to know the “why” and you explained it fully.
Brilliant article HG! This is the one that explains Narcissism in the easiest way to understand; how the Narcissist evolved and why I became ensnared by him..and I can also show my friends for them to understand exactly what I have been through as well. Thank you so much HG 😊
“You don’t really understand an antagonist until you understand why he’s a protagonist in his own version of the world.” –John Rogers