Evil : Imagine Greater
You put yourselves into the position of others. We put others into ourselves. You do it as a matter of choice in order to fulfil one of the roles you see for yourselves. Admittedly, you are struck by a considerable compulsion but you still retain the ability to decide if you will do so. We do not. We must do it. We have no choice if we wish to survive. I would invite you to exercise that ability of yours.
Imagine being wounded by the words and actions of others. Imagine that injurious sensation arising because of the deliberate and treacherous behaviour of someone who we have come to rely on. From minion to colleague, from friend to lover, the slight that is occasioned by them stings, hurts and pains. Imagine suffering that agony even if the transgressor claims not to have intended such injury and pleads innocence of all wrongdoing. Imagine that you recognise that they are right in their protestation but it still does not take away what they have done.
Imagine being of ability, brilliance and talent yet within an instant being laid low by the turn of the back or the failure of acknowledgement. Imagine being beholden to such a tortuous response and hating being chained in this way. Imagine the desire to rail against the offender, mocking them for their shortcomings, their pale comparison and diminished abilities yet that same pathetic specimen has the ability to wound in such a grievous manner. Imagine the shame of despising that individual for their behaviour yet knowing that in their hands they hold such a power. Imagine those moments of genuine horror when it is contemplated that if that competitor only realised what they could truly do and that the consignment to oblivion might be moments away.
Imagine the anguish of knowing that your well-being and capacity to function is reliant on a whole host of others who have no inkling as to the part they play. Imagine how such ignorance is regarded as a blessing and that each and every day, thanks is given that they remain shrouded in such ignorance for if they became armed with knowledge, what destruction they might wreak. Imagine knowing you are chained to the one thing that generates such contempt and bilious hatred, the need to strain against those binding chains until they split, rupture and fall away with the arrival of another. Imagine the hope, the expectation and the desire for the new arrival to prove to be the saviour. Imagine always searching for that one true acolyte that will remove the ills, eradicate the risk of annihilation and instead will prevent the necessity of the imposition of those heavy oh so heavy chains. Imagine the fervent endeavour to acquire that new arrival and the sense of delicious anticipation as they begin to function in accordance with the expected and hoped for desire.
Imagine the soaring power that arises from this saviour, the promised one, the perfect one. Imagine that sense of surging, blazing power, the sweeping majesty of knowing that the needs are now catered for, that all is and will be well, that function and form can rely on this spectacular provision. Imagine the possibilities as being super-charged from this significant, this most significant other and that worlds will collide, empires will rise and the intended endless dynasty will be created.
Imagine the horror, the disappointment, the envy and the fury as that perfect one turns out to be a seditious charlatan who has lied, conned and connived. Imagine the incandescent rage that seeks escape. Imagine knowing of the consequences of such treachery and the reckless application of such blind fury. Imagine knowing that control must be exerted in order to preserve so much that has been built. Imagine straining to keep the beast within its confined place, the shackles so perfectly formed and seemingly impervious to weakness or fragility that now appear weak, rusted and not fit for purpose. Imagine the contemplation of becoming nothing. Imagine that which you wish the world to see being steadily dismantled and by a traitor’s hand. Imagine the sense of injustice, unfairness and bitterness to be undone by the very thing which promised the ultimate salvation. Imagine hearing that craven whisper that signifies that which should not be entertained or occasioned. Imagine the icy terror of that mocking, lisping voice and the frantic need to silence it. Imagine the whirlwind of necessity to rebuild, to acquire and to conquer once again. Imagine the Herculean effort required to reassert one’s place in this cruel and feckless world.
Imagine in such times of being reminded of what once was and what you swore would never be again. That which you have sought to bury deep and keep buried, locked away, hidden and rarely contemplated. Imagine the tormentors that come like shades to pull and drag towards that time again. That time which ought to have been banished yet still somehow rises time and time again. Imagine trying to bury it dead but knowing it will not allow this and instead when the obscene and scandalous plans of our opponents, our competitors and our enemies weaken that which ought not be seen as weak, that the corpse breathes once again and seeks to rise, its fetid words travelling from near-forgotten times to resurrect them and bring us down.
Imagine striking out left, right and centre in order to bring control and order back. Imagine that it can only be from the external chaos that order is enforced within and that the suffering of others is the glue, the mortar and the binding which creates that prison once more. Imagine reliance on the agony and suffering to re-build and re-create so that the voice is silenced and decorum established once more.
Imagine that whirring mind which must always assess, evaluate and calculate. Planning, plotting and scheming. A marvellous frenzied activity which devises and develops in order to always drive forward. Imagine knowing that stillness is not an option. Imagine the knowledge that taking such a step would only result in that slow descent and instead momentum is required at all times, onwards, upwards, forwards with never a backward glance, a moment of retrospect or the time to pause and consider. Always consuming, always extracting, always gathering, garnering, purloining, taking, sucking, draining, hunting, claiming, conquering. A ceaseless behemoth that draws the light from stars, the good from the benevolent, the love from the decent and the soul from everything. Imagine that and so, so much more.
Can you imagine it?
Can you be it.
I can.
I have to.
140 thoughts on “Evil : Imagine Greater”
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I have no problem with HG making money , he should be he’s providing quality knowledge that has saved lives. I want him to make money ;-). So he will continue with his service so we never forget .
Spend some money on yourself …I do.
HG …Once a person feels power do they get addicted to it ? Once they feel the sensation of how their body reacts to power, and once they “know” it’s power they have had the reaction in their brain chemically and body physically ?
No, only certain people are addicted to power, which is really the manifestation of the need for control.
Can anyone become addicted? Empaths, normals, narcs, and all others? Like anyone can become addicted to nicotine can anyone become addicted to power?
Empaths are addicted too narcissists. Normals are not. Narcissists are addicted to control and fuel.
HG. It never pieces together for others unless they are living day to day with a narc AND…are a primary . Or perhaps they watch their child as a Narcissist? I don’t have a child narc. Everyone seems to feel sorry for you ? Do they not see how you are making the money off them off everyone ….and the power you feel sharing this information. Power and fuel…may not be as strong from this site as it is from SM , but …I feel it a little bit when I read these comments telling you how wonderful you are ….lap it up , HG. You are unique.
Hi molly.
Oh, the motivation behind it does not escape my notice.
Having said that, I can pay a therapist with no life training other than a textbook to answer my questions, or, I can accept that there is someone who has every answer that I need and is making it available to myself.
I am not going to sit here and tell HG that he is a wonderful man but what I can and will say is that I was lost until I found this site and now most of my pain is gone and I appreciate him for that. He gave me the answers I needed that I couldn’t find for myself in 40 years.
For that, I am in full appreciation of him. Is he a wonderful man? I’m sure I don’t know.
Has he helped me personally? Absolutely!
Does he help me see sense in a lifetime of confusion? Yes!
Also the very fact that he is a narc makes me feel overtly comfortable.
If I was sitting in a therapists office I would clam up, struggle to relax for the entire visit and ultimately waste my money unless they were an expert on Narcissism.
Money for sanity. It is so unreasonable or such an offensive idea?
It’s genius really. Wish I’d thought of it myself. It’s not money for nothing. It’s money in exchange for time. Like many other professionals I can think of.
I’m grateful for the help I have received here and I can say that when I’m healed from all of this and I stop coming here, I will still remember where I found the help that I needed.
It was here.
Me too .
Speaking only for myself, haven’t spent a cent yet but the peace of mind I’ve gotten so far is priceless. No one is being fooled. We know what he is. Both sides benefit so I don’t mind if there’s fuel . Its being given away to our personal narcissists anyway and what do we get in return? Grief.
Hear hear!
I know. Obviously I’m speaking to the one that doesn’t know and needs more questions answered . I feel for the fooled.
Molly ,I feel for anyone who is fooled, because they havent read the” About” section. It’s clearly stated there that he”s a narcissist and that he does it partly because he’s forced, and partly because it serves his own ends. Additionally that constant thread runs throughout his comments and responses in the blog. Hopefully your observation will encourage all who havent yet read that section to do so.
I concur,
What I will end up spending here is not much compared to what I have spent over the last 25 years in therapy and medication. Plus I will have books to pull from the library and free blog articles to refer back to. The consultations seem reasonably priced in comparison. Narcissism didn’t even come up in any of the therapy sessions I have attended in the past.
This is the closest I have come in resolving questions and emotions I have had since childhood. I am making peace with my past and am grateful for that.
Thank you HG
You are welcome.
I was not living day to day nor was I primary when I figured out my narc (I was DLS)
It was only in retrospect I realized I’ve been primary in the past .
He’s using his skills to make a profit. Don’t we all do that in our jobs?
And if someone says we are good at our jobs, is that not acceptable?
HG is good at what he does. He is providing a service that few are as adequately able to provide.
His lexicon is vast, his knowledge of his chosen subject matter is second to none, and he speaks with almost impeccable diction.
(He’s a little careless with typos but that’s my only critical observation, and we all make typos on occasion.)
At the end of the day, he deserves the payments and the appreciation because he’s skilled in this field, with the ultimate consequence being his target audience feels satisfied with the service he’s providing.
HG you are using your expertise to great effect, and despite your apathy towards the emotions of tertiary empaths you are nonetheless surrounded by many people who are grateful for the understanding and consequential relief they (and I) have gained by your sharing of your knowledge.
So thank you.
Wow, HG, so expressive. Feels as if I’m in your head. It’s dark, painful and lonely. Reading that was hard, and I have new found understanding and empathy for the narcissistic perspective.
It appears that the Narcissist deems empaths beneath them yet depends on them for fuel. Is this always the case? Are we always deemed as less despite intelligence, aptitude, success? Are we always worthy of less respect?
Unconsciously, yes.
Would it be fair to say that it’s not just empaths they don’t respect?
Yes.
HG, may I ask…do you respect anybody? I don’t mean that flippantly, I am genuinely interested. I’m guessing the answer is “no”, but if you don’t ask you don’t get!
I do, if it suits my purposes to do so.
Lol, of course! I should have said “genuinely respect”, and then the answer would definitely have been “no”. Thanks HG!
You are welcome.
Do you genuinely respect the Shield Maiden? I assume that you act respectfully for purposes of facade management. (for now). Would you choose somebody you did not genuinely respect as an IPPS?
I respect her, of course. Is it genuine? I am a narcissistic psychopath.
I see. Thank you for your response.
Thanks HG. That helps a lot in terms of us keeping our ET under control because we can rationalise it and understand that it is not just because we are empaths and often have poor boundaries, it’s merely because we exist and they have contempt/ lack of respect for everyone.
Extremely helpful. Thank you
I shall need to purchase a new notebook!
You are welcome.
RE:
Nina says:
October 8, 2019 at 17:43
It appears that the Narcissist deems empaths beneath them yet depends on them for fuel. Is this always the case? Are we always deemed as less despite intelligence, aptitude, success? Are we always worthy of less respect?
REPLY
HG Tudor says:
October 8, 2019 at 19:36
Unconsciously, yes.
REPLY
Alexissmith2016 says:
October 8, 2019 at 20:04
Would it be fair to say that it’s not just empaths they don’t respect?
REPLY
HG Tudor says:
October 8, 2019 at 20:11
Yes.
HG, isn’t this due to the fact that narcissism is a complete/total defense? If you were to allow such things as love or esteem of another above yourself, it would require a conditional cessation of your defense for that person (because love entails a degree of vulnerability and greater respect entails deferring esteem to another). I would assume this would not be tolerated as it would challenge the defense. Is this a fair assessment?
It would be it actually does not matter because we are incapable of love, therefore we would never be in a position to love and do so with vulnerability and deference of esteem.
If you believe you cannot do something you likely cannot. But are you saying it is not a belief created by the defense? Are you saying there is an actual total absence of the compression of and ability to love internally/externally since birth?
Love requires emotional empathy. We have none. Therefore we do not love. It is absent and cannot be injected, FYC.
I understand HG, and thank you.
Of course, we empaths cannot imagine a life without love, or at least it would a bleak life. We would want you to know real love of self and another. So in that spirit, allow me to put forward the following for consideration only:
1) Neuroscientists have established via fMRI scans, that Ns have the same degree of *self* empathy as empathetic people, so you do have a type of empathy as a basis of experience/understanding.
2) You write that love is a taught construct and you are clearly of high intelligence.
Therefore, if you so desired (and obviously this would be key), you could theoretically, purposely extend self-empathy to other and possibly, even if momentarily, learn to experience love. I am not suggesting this would be possible for any other N, but for you it might.
I am pretty sure I should head straight away to the dungeon for this insurrection, but I sincerely mean no disrespect.
”1) Neuroscientists have established via fMRI scans, that Ns have the same degree of *self* empathy as empathetic people, so you do have a type of empathy as a basis of experience/understanding.
2) You write that love is a taught construct and you are clearly of high intelligence.”
FYC,
The above actually is describing “cognitive empathy” – is it not?
And, “you could theoretically, purposely extend self-empathy to other”…I think HG is able to do this? Otherwise he would not so exquisitely understand and describe our internal state and experiences – also he would not be able to ascertain his own inner experience and articulate it to us. (He just does not feel the emotions we associate with making these connections.)
I am not challenging you or the findings you’ve presented. I find this exchange between you and HG fascinating.
It is entirely understanding. I feel nothing, but I understand what I should feel in those situations and I have spent a lifetime mimicking the reactions of those who do feel it.
Thank-you for confirming that HG. But doesn’t the ability to contrast and compare the (self-reported) internal experience of the Empath to your own internal experience infer the ability to have self-empathy?
Self empathy is self-interest. We have that in spades.
Point taken, HG. Thank you for your replies.
WC, No. What scientists have found is that when Ns are given either a written description or photographs of a devastation scene, their emotional centers in the brain are not activated for others. When asked to imagine the same scene happening to themselves, their emotional center of the brain is activated to the same degree as an empathic person. This has lead to the discussion (in their academic circles) that it may be possible at some point, to teach Ns to leverage their self empathy by imaging their reaction to an event instead of not considering this self view.
We see these differences in HG’s writing. He has feelings about abuse that is exacted upon him (albeit, these are limited in range). We also see his lack of emotional response to many situations regarding others (asylum of the grotesque). We see ample evidence of his intelligence and of his cognitive empathic abilities. But, what HG has consistently stated is he has no emotional empathy (I do not disagree). I am merely wondering if he applied self view to the other, would it be possible to effect change, even momentarily? My guess is that no N would care to do so. There would be no motivation and it would be contrary to the defense mechanism adopted for survival and control.
I acknowledge what HG has shared and I do not disagree, I am simply question the possibilities. Neuroscientists have also studied meditation as a significant influencing factor on empathetic output. It was found when a renowned mindfulness expert used focused meditation on compassion, the fMRI scan showed the brain activity in the emotional center increased by 800%. This was a surprising result. This person was not identified as an N and all outward appearances seem to indicate the opposite. It makes me wonder how just how much we can influence our life experience by how well we engage with our own thought process.
Interesting observations FYC.
The reason this would not happen is that the narcissism would never cause the narcissist to even attempt to apply the self empathy to others, because to do so would weaken the self-defence mechanism of the narcissism and therefore the narcissism would prevent this from even being started (even if it could achieve something). The narcissism will perceive such activity as a threat to control and would thus remove the narcissist from it. It is similar to why narcissists do not attend therapy, do not embrace or it or only do so for self-serving purposes. The narcissism will never allow anything “close” to threaten it.
“The reason this would not happen is that the narcissism would never cause the narcissist to even attempt to apply the self empathy to others, because to do so would weaken the self-defence mechanism of the narcissism and therefore the narcissism would prevent this from even being started (even if it could achieve something). The narcissism will perceive such activity as a threat to control and would thus remove the narcissist from it. It is similar to why narcissists do not attend therapy, do not embrace or it or only do so for self-serving purposes. The narcissism will never allow anything “close” to threaten it.”
HG, I believe this 100%. Yet, I had to ask, because if it were possible, and you wanted to explore such an option, you would have the basis to consider its application as suggested in the research. I hope you see the spirit in which my comment was put forward.
I do and I welcome your evidence-based and thoughtful questions.
Thank you, HG.
Thank-you FYC for summarizing the science on this. I find anything related to the the plasticity of the brain very interesting; but I need to do my own further reading on this!
Sorry if you follow up and I don’t reply back for a while. I currently only have intermittent access to the internet – but often your discussions and the new material posted by HG bring me back!
WC, I replied to your questions earlier, but my reply is a bit long so it may some time to appear. I wanted to add the clarification that cognitive empathy would take place in the frontal lobe/prefrontal cortex (thinking/reasoning/processing) and the emotional empathy would stem from the amygdala (emotional center of the brain). The studies I refer to demonstrated activity in the amygdala (via fMRI) when self empathy was considered by Ns, but no appreciable activity took place in the amygdala for others. This was interesting so it seemed worth throwing it out there for HG’s consideration. I appreciate he has made his position clear.
‘It is entirely understanding. I feel nothing, but I understand what I should feel in those situations and I have spent a lifetime mimicking the reactions of those who do feel it.’. Interesting point.
Which leaves me wondering the following.
1. How do you even know we actually feel and experience what we say we do?
2. I recall a midrange when giving a monologue victim pity ploy finishing it off with the words, ‘but nobody really cares anywya, not really.’ Was that said because he has some awareness that he does not care and therefore assumes others don’t? Or because he just wanted me to say, “oh but I really care” and continue with gushy stuff .
3. If MRs instinctively seek out empaths does and therefore feel real fuel from empaths, can they tell the difference between fake (cognitive) empathy from an UMR compared to real (emotional) empathy from an empath.
4. Dependent on your answer to 3. In choosing a NiSS would an MR prefer one over the other or would it be equal for them?
Thanks so much
1. A lifetime of dealing with you.
2. No, it was a Pity Play.
3. Instinctively, yes, it manifests as a sensation of being controlled.
HG, do your IPPSs know about your blog? Usually your kind can’t be honest about themselves, because noone would get near them anymore, would they?
Nevertheless I appriciate your honesty here, because it helps me surviving my private horror.
So, you still are important for other people which is hopefully a warm feeling then, isn’t it? (Sorry, my English is a bit poor, I’m German)
No, they do not.
I gain a little fuel, yes, but I do not do this for that.
HG – why do you do this? I’ve often wondered. I was a victim of two narcissists, of different calibers (thankfully the second was a Lesser and was much easier to rationalize why I had to cut her out of my life forever after realizing what she was): as a result, between the two of them I think I’ve watched every video you’ve made and read a good number of the blog posts – still, my curiosity is piqued: why do all this?
Obviously, you’ve discovered a way to make money from it (and thank you, truly, on behalf of myself and quite a few of my kind)…but before the money, what was the goal? Is there an altruist behind the mask? Or is it a power struggle that’s manifested as you upload a video and gain fuel as the numbers tick up on the view count?
See the About section.
I can imagine it but I can’t be it. Nor would I want to.
I know what you’re saying. I’ve seen your kind wince at the unintentional blow , taking a nothing comment the completely wrong way. Narcs have an incredible amount of empathy for themselves, and I don’t think they understand when we don’t get their pain. A child who wants a toy another has, who’s crushed they can’t take it from them and so confused why we aren’t taking their side. Their perspective is extremely biased towards only feeling for themselves.
The pain you write about, we feel everyday from your kind, even months later when you’re not around. We suffered from mother too. I know it’s a different kind of pain. A child who steals the toy away from another feels so happy to have it, and doesn’t care that the other child is left crying.
I have almost zero empathy for your kind. I see how easily they’re hurt, I see them lash out over the slightest misunderstanding, I see them say the jerkiest things and not feel like jerks, and I’m not impressed. I see them as weak, and I learn how to pacify them like a child I don’t particularly like.
kel2day,
If I could give your comment ten likes, I would. I completely agree with you.
I see narcissists as weak too. They can be immensely talented, intelligent, capable etc, but they are unable to mentally ‘control’ their own need for control.
To live with a narcissist and have a relationship that is harmonious takes a great amount of tolerance and adaptability on the part of the other person. The other person needs to constantly and sensitively modify their own internal instincts, drives and desires.
An empath can do it for a while because of their compassion and willingness to put aside their personal desires in order to maintain the relationship. But even the compassion of an empath wears out. Even the ‘contagion’ empath’s emotional empathy that comes from a place they’re not consciously aware of, even that wears out.
The narcissist is not able, or sensitive enough, or simply doesn’t have the brain cells required, to adjust their own instincts and drives. To live in this dynamic does require you to ‘pacify’ them. To ‘pacify’ them is probably the same as HG saying that you need to give them positive fuel. If they were aware that you were ‘pacifying’ them, they would lash out because they would think you wanted to ‘control’ them. There is no way for a narcissist to see you as an ‘equal’ or to genuinely reciprocate in an egalitarian way in a relationship.
1. You do not live with a narcissist and have a harmonious relationship. It is impossible and if you think it is achievable you are being governed by emotional thinking.
2. It is nothing to do with sensitivity or the number of brain cells.
3. It is fruitless to believe you can pacify a narcissist. No, it is not the same as providing positive fuel. Your positive fuel only works for so long as you are viewed white, it is not that the act of providing positive fuel that will always result in pacification because if you are painted black, your positive fuel may be seen (depends on context) as a challenge to control.
HG,
I agree that you can’t have a harmonious relationship with a narcissist. It appears to be harmonious during the golden period, but that’s because the narcissist is mirroring and creating an illusion. There is no such thing as ‘harmony’ in a narcissist’s mind if they don’t feel they’re in control. If people live together on a continual basis, it’s necessary for them to co-exist at some level. For this to be as unproblematic as possible, the non-narcissist needs to be tolerant or forgiving, or to modify their own instinctive reactions. Instead of saying ‘harmonious’, I think ‘co-existing as peacably as possible’ would probably be more apt.
I didn’t say ‘the number of brain cells’. What I meant was the ‘type’ of brain cells. If narcissists had mirror neurons for example, they would be more likely to have empathy. Likewise, an empath may not have the type of brain cells that manifest in strategic actions that manifest in control. I wasn’t stating scientific facts or saying that one was superior to the other.
There are times when ceding control or being in agreement with a narcissist will lead to them feeling that they have control and that is what I meant by ‘pacifying’. The empath doesn’t think in terms of ‘control’ all the time. Sometimes it is necessary to simply get things done expediently and without a struggle for control, but you can’t explain that to a narcissist.
Yes, I see that you were unclear when you wrote “the narcissist does not have the brain cells”. You meant “type of” rather than “number of”.
Yes, thanks for your understanding HG.
You are welcome.
Soley as a point of clarification, per the neuroscience research I have read to date, there are the same number of brain cells and the same type. The NPD/APD brian simply has different stimulus response activity. It is hypothesized that genetics (heritable traits) and epigenetics (modified gene expression) play a role in relation to environment/experience.
Thank you FYC, for that clarification. Your scientific insights about the brain and human behaviour are always very interesting.
Thank you WN. In fairness, they are others’ insights from their original research that I find interesting. I started researching several months back to see what is known about N and E in scholarly studies. I will comment on E in the future too, but there is so much data on E, it is hard to encompass in short post.
You’re welcome FYC. Yes, I realise they’re not actually ‘your’ original insights and that you are sharing the knowledge that you have come across. I should have said, “the scientific insights that you share about the brain and human behaviour” to be more accurate.
No worries, WN, I just like to give credit where it is due. What you said is fine either way.
WiserNow
Ditto, I agree with your comments as well. I did mean pacify them as in ceding control. Actually once you know, it’s similar to dealing with a child, and I don’t mean that offensively or disrespectfully. But their behavior is more obvious once you know what they are, and you can more easily recognize the manipulations in action, and you know why they’re doing it, and you know how to react in a pleasing way to them that won’t compromise yourself. You can give in and play along sometimes without it hurting you in a meaningless moment in some instances. I was thinking of it in scenarios where you’re not the primary source, but I’m sure my bosses wife does pacify him to keep peace in their lives.
Wrong. See The Devil´s Pitchfork. You are being misled by your emotional thinking.
Pitchforks and wooden stakes then, the villagers had it right in the old Dracula and Frankenstein movies! I’ll just hold a cross out in front of the next narc to make him back off from me!
Even better, apply no contact and have nothing to do with the narcissist.
Agreed, but it’s impossible not to run into one from time to time, or even to be related to them.
Correct, but there is much that can be done to ensure that you halt engagement at the earliest juncture.
Ok then I’ll read the Devil’s Pitchfork.
FYC I was asked today about research on the genetic component. Can you give me any links or references I can pass on thx
@Zielum you have seen this? Still undeterred?
I am speechless. Absolutely brilliant article , a masterpiece.
The last four sentences are so powerful:
“ Can you imagine it?” Yes, I can HG, you are a talented painter who uses words instead brushes. You draw a vivid picture and I can see it and feel it. The dark colours – the pain, the urge to control, the longing for the one , the never resting mind and the roaming soul.
“ Can you be it “ . No, I can’t. Neither I want it. We are from 2 different worlds – you are longing for the dark and rain , I am longing for the light and sun.
“ I can” .
“ I have to “ Being an empathic person it makes me sad . Why should I feel sad for you being what you are – the Ultra , the high achiever?
Because you are exposing your soul. And somehow your pain is tangible.
A wiseman said “ Mind without faith is like a bird without wings “.
People won’t always love you and some will betray you.
The One who won’t betray you is our Lord .
I am imagining it! This is the issue I have with most situations when coming to terms with my own perceptions. I’m usually seeing about eight sides to every story and can appear wishy washy.
When I first discovered this blog I would pace a round it, dip a toe in, then run away. It was very triggering. Finally I got a running start and just dove in. I read and cried for days. This article also brought tears to my eyes.
Maybe subconsciously it is triggering because of the trigger finger in the artwork. It reminds me of my father and helps me to understand his view of the world. Also he would often hold a handgun to our heads and rant about killing us all and turning the gun on himself. I really didn’t expect to make it to adulthood. I no longer fear for my life; he has been expired for many years now.
I believe that we all have very individualistic ideas and perceptions about emotions and the world around us. One person may view love as fuel and power. Another person may view love as pain. Even with similarities and differences we are all so very individual and that is beautiful.
Now you’ve got me trapped in my mind again. How does a fly view the world? Damnit HG what the hell does pineapple really taste like?
Whatever I want it to tatse like.
But of course😉
Gypsy heart ,
let me give you some other problems to ruminate on,
the fact we percieve blue as different from pink and different from gray ect… is because they have different wave lenghts.
when my eyes and yours perceive a wave lenght of 466 nm, we both agree that it is indeed blue, but we have no way to ascertain that how my brain picture blue, and how yours picture it, is the same. And we can apply it to evrything that depends on our sens.
Doesn’t it felle lonely and thrilling in the same time?
Well stated.
Yes it does liza!
The ability to express and acknowledge this negates it’s reality in the voice of the narrator. He’s making himself into the voice of Humbert Humbert in Lolita. It is creative writing. It is well written and insightful, but an invented persona. Lack of self insight is the core of narcissism; those of us who have lived with the character s/he describes knows that the ability to acknowledge the syndrome in such detail would kill it in the actual abuser, like light kills darkness.
One thing i can say has really changed me with understanding more about npd is im more forgiving. It doesnt mean i dont get upset and angry at narcissists bc i do but i can reflect and understand from a nonemotional position later and realise why. I can even feel pity for narcissists. Ive learned a lot about myself thru npd bc altho im not a narcissist there are aspects of npd non narcs can have as well like silent treatments, codependancies, insecurities etc the difference is narcs dont feel empathy and that in itself must be so lonely and empty when fuel runs low. Fuel covers it all up like a bandaide but its always there and never heals. That to me is to be pitied. I cant imagine living life without empathy and needing to gather fuel constantly. Always needing that high that comes from being up on a pedestal from the fuel of others. Also from hurting others and bullying. Its like a druggie they need it or they go into withdrawals and feel lost. I feel lucky for the most part i can just be by myself and enjoy life. I can be a plain jane and not need to be in the spotlight. I accept me for me and dont need to be the best at everthing or be recognized. Its a peaceful satisfying feeling self acceptance but narcs never feel this ease from within theyre in constant turmoil and discomfort on and off. It reminds me of bipolar disease which my gr grandad had. He had sky high moments when he felt on top of the world and then came crashing down. Sadly he committed suicide as a result. I see npd as the same in many regards. Theres no calm no balance its ups and downs. Turmoil within.
And this is why I find non-narc sociopaths frequently easier to deal with than narcs, even the non-sociopathic kind.
Non-narc sociopaths honestly couldn’t care less what you think of them, as long as they get what they want.
What narcs want most of all is for you to think of them.
Thanks to you HG, I’ll never see Narcissists in the same light ever again.The posts of the last few days have been particularly rivetting, a look deep into what seems like a tormented soul. But why expose the means by which you can be “destroyed”. When I read these posts the sense of sadness is overwhelming. Know you won’t agree but could it be that those very moments of vulnerability present the window for healing. Could it be that you won”t cease to exist, but rather forced to face the awful pain and find another way to cope
Consider previous illness like scurvy and the plague which killed millions and are now solved with simple cures that man never imagined. The mind is more complex, yes but I still have hope that redemption is always available for those who call on Him. Thanks again for sharing your awesome talent and insights.
You are welcome.
My God!
I can barely imagine such a life.
It sounds so lonely and exhausting.
It does sound it, understandably so, from your perspective.
I hope not, from your perspective.
HG, do you ever wish that you could feel real love again, if only for a moment?
No, I don’t. I see it as a weakness.
You must have a little curiosity as to what love truly feels like. After all, we never shut up about it.
I have no curiosity Desiree, mainly because you all never shut up about it.
I do respect you HG.
What puzzles me, is that; if you have never known what love feels like, then how can you presume it to be a weakness?
You can see it as weakness. I can respect your point of view. But if you could just experience it for a moment, you could then be free to know, instead of viewing it as what it may or may not be.
Do you ever experience a moment of pure curiosity on what the fuss about love is all about? What we feel for you?
Surely, it is strength enough to cause the launch of 1000 ships.
Is that not powerful?
I see someone with a broken leg, even though my leg is not broken, I know they are in a position of weakness.
I see what love does to people. I see it as a weakness. You will not alter this, this is my perspective. It is right for me, wrong for you, but you have to deal with its impact (both what you describe as good and bad impacts), I do not.
I have no desire to see feel it. It serves no purpose.
It’s clear that I struggle to grasp this concept, regardless of how many books or articles I read on the topic.
I will keep trying and hopefully one day, it will all piece together.
Patience is a virtue!
Your analogy is good though, as I do see how you are viewing situations from a completely different lens.
I just wish for a happier universe and I always think that if everyone could try to think that too, then maybe, collectively, a wonderful change would be achievable.
I will always believe in happy endings. Silly, I know, but I can’t change either.
Who knows though, maybe if there was no counter to positive, then the universe couldn’t exist anymore. Maybe there HAS to be a balance.
Shame though.
You are welcome. It is useful for you to at least be able to recognise I have my perspective and you have yours.
It is HG.
It’s still such an enormous shock that narcissism exists and also, how on earth I had never heard about it before.
It’s a new reality that I am trying to absorb and I try very hard to look at life from your side.
I have no desire to carry on with this new concept and carry hate about it. I want to learn and to understand.
I really like that you do this with all of us, as at least we are all learning about each other.
Imagine how many lost souls would be out there still, if they hadn’t of found this site!!
It’s good what you do, for whatever your reasons are, the byproduct is of genuine help!
Thank you!!!
You are welcome.
Do narcissists generally have no curiosity or just with regards to emotions they dont have?
I think I kind of understand the concept of emotions being a weakness now since from a narcissists perspective, our emotions are their way in. We don’t see it that way because we don’t draw fuel so a lot of our drive, strange, gratification whatever you might call it comes from said emotions. But once we encounter a narcissist, that is how they gain control over us. It is a weakness because it makes us susceptible to being manipulated and abused.
Most wont realise they lack them, they think they have them, thus there will be no curiosity.
Strength. Freudian autocorrect.
HG, if you see love as a weakness, do you eventually feel contempt for those who love you?
Indeed.
I don’t understand this HG? You have been searching for the One your whole life now! Are you saying the love that she pours onto you day after day you will eventually see as weakness and you will feel contempt for her? If this is true does it mean you will never find the love that will satisfy you because the love you are searching for is from your Mother?
No, it does not.
Love is fuel to me.
Those that provide love to our kind, find their love being a weakness.
I must have misunderstood what was written earlier, I’m sorry HG.
No need to apologise.
This lovey shit isn’t overly appealing. Why can’t I have dinner and dessert every 8.34 days and not get f**^%%# over by a prick? Answer this.
People die for love. People kill for love. People kill themselves over love.
Love breaks the heart. Love heals the heart. Love keeps us chained. Love sets us free.
Love is simple. Love is complex. Love is kind. Love hurts. Love strengthens. Love weakens. Love is a feeling. Love is a choice.
People search their entire lives for love. Some people regret having loved.
People give love and take love. People want to love and want to be loved.
People don’t want to live in a world without love. You cannot love, but you want to be loved, so even you cannot live without it.
Love makes the world exciting, doesn’t it? Maybe that is it’s purpose.
Love is not meant to be exciting.
The problem is, we have made it this way and people think this is the norm and how it should be. Thus they come out with platitudes along the lines of the ones you have mentioned and they are misled.
HG. I totally understand that perspective . Love is a word that has different meanings to everyone. People , sheep think love “should be” this way or that way or .. “ if you love me than ……this should be done etc”. I only know true
“love” when I had a child. To me of course. That meant total concern for their well being and looking at them made my heart flutter …and I have a complete drive to do everything for their protection and survival ….so they can function without me also …and feel I gave them the tools to help themselves in this life. But I don’t feel that for any man or woman. And I don’t think my answer or feelings are the only way to feel. I just can’t help it …it is my instinctual reaction to my children. I never received this attention or kind of love from my mother ….maybe a little bit from my father and sisters. But …I know everyone will not feel that for me ever . That’s ok with me. I don’t expect that from anyone, I don’t look for it either.
Then what is love meant to be? Love is one of the driving forces in the world. Intertwined with sex.
Ask Haddaway.
May I ask you to please provide your answer to the question? If you believe love is not meant to be exciting, and that we have been conditioned to think this way, then what is love meant to be?
I did not know who Haddaway was and had to find out from the internet.
Love is not meant to hurt people.
Are you sure? Because it usually does. Like love/sex, love/pain are intertwined. I can’t even think of a circumstance involving love that does not also include pain-eventually.
Love, in itself, is not meant to be painful. This is what I have heard and observed. People are conned into thinking that it is, as you appear to have been also.
You may lose a loved one to the grim reaper, but that is the loss which is painful, not the loving.
I understand your point regarding love, in itself, not meant to be painful, and losing a loved one; but love never stands alone. A loss is only painful because of the love. Without the love a person dying would not be painful. Also, when we are hurt and disappointed by people we love, which is inevitable. It is painful because we love them. People we don’t love don’t have the same ability to hurt us emotionally. Obviously, you know this.
I agree that there are periods of love, or periods during love that are not painful, but in the end, pain is always associated with love and they are intertwined. Even the emotion of love can be painful when we feel that emotion toward people and things that are bad for us. Because love weakens us, as you have stated, and makes us vulnerable to pain. I cannot think of one instance where there is love without pain. I think it is a con, and the romanticizing of love to believe you can love without pain, or that love is never painful.
I do not like being called weak but maybe I have changed my mind about this. Once you love someone/thing you are now susceptible to pain associated with it. So, in this way, you are weakened. I guess that’s why trust is also associated with love toward another person.
Thank you for your time and for responding. We do not have to continue this debate, unless you want the last word. There is no debate, however, that you are magnificent.
You are welcome. As always, views and observations are welcome here.
Hello njfilly, I understand your view on love, and if you are experiencing pain right now, my heart goes out to you and I wish you peace and comfort.
I am curious why you feel love ends with pain and that the two are always intertwined? If you love some deeply and lose them, the grief is painful, but it does not change the love. Love is a constant and lives on past the grief. If you share pain with someone because they are hurt or disappointed, it is not love causing the pain, you are empathically, vicariously experiencing their hurt/disappointment. If you love someone and things don’t work out, it does not change the love freely given. In most cases it is a gift that you parted ways because there is good reason you do so. If someone causes you pain because they do not do something you hoped or expected, it is not love that causes the pain, it is the tying of hopes/dreams/expectations to another and making your happiness conditional upon their fulfillment. If someone you love is a N and flips from perfectly golden to cold, manipulating, cheating or malicious, it is not your love causing you pain, it is their deception, apathy, breach of trust, cruelty and abuse that is causing you pain. If you allow someone to treat you in a manner not in accordance with your values more than once, it is not your love causing pain, it is your betrayal of self. You deserve far more than these. Love takes inner strength, it is not weakness. Giving love from a position of strength and respect (self and other) allows you to give freely and that love is a gift to you as well as the other. Romance is the con. Love is not. I hope you find one day that love and pain are separate. They might cross paths on occasion, but they are separate (from my POV).
Dear FYC,
Thank you for your kindness. I wish you peace and comfort as well.
Love always involves pain because to love somebody is to make ourselves vulnerable to them and we experience pain in these situations because we love somebody. It’s not necessarily that it ends in pain* but that it opens us up to experience pain. Pain is part of the experience of love. There is no perfect love that exists that does not also include pain. Just as there is no perfect relationship that exists where we are never hurt, disappointed, possibly betrayed, etc., whether intentionally or even unintentionally. *Love can end in pain due to the death of the person (or pet) but we experience pain only because the love existed first. If we felt no love, we would not feel the pain of the loss. Love and pain are not separate, and they do not cross paths but are always intertwined.
I agree with many of your statements; that the grief does not change the love, love is a constant and lives on past the grief, that nothing changes the love freely given, that love should be given from a position of strength and respect, that love is a gift etc. I agree with you. But it does not change my opinion that part of the ‘experience’ of love is pain. That is why it takes strength to love. To love once, and then love again requires strength. Due to the pain that will also be felt. The weakness is the vulnerability caused by love.
I am not speaking about a relationship with a narcissist or a person who is actively cruel or goes out of their way to cause pain. I am speaking about normal, everyday imperfect, sinful human beings who hurt each other (either intentionally or unintentionally) due to our conflicting and differing views, needs, sensitivities, etc. I think it is an unrealistic expectation that love will never involve pain. Perhaps this is why nobody has ever found this ‘perfect’ love yet as it does not exist.
Speaking about narcissists; yes, they are cruel and are responsible for their own actions. But if we did not love them their actions would not cause us pain; the very reason they love bomb us and attach us to them so that it will be painful for us. So again, it is the love within the experience that opens us up to the pain. Then we are in pain because of the love we feel toward them. Love is very painful. That has been my experience and as I look around, so it is everybody’s experience as well. Provide me with one example of love without pain. If you say you were in a relationship where there was no pain, hurt, anger, disappointment; I will not believe that.
Yes, there is strength in love. The strength is in loving and making yourself vulnerable knowing you will experience pain but doing it anyway. The strength comes from loving and losing but choosing still to love again.
I still believe in love. I just have a different, and in my opinion, more realistic expectation of what the experience really is. I think I need to add this to my response on the empath detector consultation. I wonder if this would change the results.
njfilly, Thank you for your kindness and for expanding upon your view. We have different perspectives on love. I would suggest pain is a part of life whether or not love enters the picture. Pain avoidance is key to the evolutionary process and the core tenet of survival. HG has confirmed, he does not love and cannot love, yet he sees his way of life as superior in many ways. This is his perspective, his experience. HG has also written about the pain of injurious comments or lack of fuel. He feels pain and a variety of other feelings. He has confirmed he does not feel joy or happiness.
As an empath, I feel love, joy, happiness, contentment, peace, frustration, anger, pain grief, etc. Each of these emotions amplifies my experience in life and these emotions also inform me on many levels. I would not want a life that was only one emotion (happiness or sadness). Human nature is to take for granted that which is static. Our variety of emotions gives us the ability to experience, appreciate and learn so much more than would be possible in a static environment. I see value in all of our emotions and I have gratitude for each. I evolve from my experiences and learning. Even when I do not love someone, I have shared their pain and have no regrets for doing so. Such is the nature of empathy. Lack of love does not ensure lack of pain. Likewise the presence of love does not make us immune to pain.
I agree with you that humans are not perfect and nothing is flawless in nature. Therefore, nothing we do or experience is ‘perfection’. I do not seek perfection (the Ns I have known did). I seek to embrace all that life offers and have gratitude for each. I would never stop loving. I never, ever love to ruin. No one will ever destroy, remove or steal my capacity for love. If they were to try, my N quotient would emerge and I would shut that %@#$ down pronto. I know my values and I respect others values. I have never regretted love given. I accept things as they are, learn from the experience and move forward.
I am glad you still love and do so from a position of strength, njfilly. I welcome any further thoughts and thank you for the thought-provoking discussion.
Dear FYC,
Very interesting comment, and I do agree with much of it. Particularly, “We have different perspectives on love. I would suggest pain is a part of life whether or not love enters the picture” and “Lack of love does not ensure lack of pain. Likewise the presence of love does not make us immune to pain.” I would modify and condense these two statements by saying that pain is both part of the experience of life and the experience of love. There is always pain associated with love but there is not always love associated with pain.
Thank you for this exchange. I appreciate deep conversations and I do enjoy reading other people’s perspectives and it’s okay that we disagree; respect is key.
I hope you are enjoying your weekend. May I ask what FYC stands for? For your consideration?
Hello njfilly, yes, FYC stands for “For Your Consideration,” and I thank you for yours, and for sharing your thoughts.
Soon to be sparkling,
may be what i felt was not love, but that feeling i identifie as love ( romantic love i mean) does abosolutely note feel good, there is indeed some sort of pleasure in seing him and interacting with him, but i felt mainly anxious, stressed, traped, walking on a tight rop, and ancipating the moment it will hurt, or the moment i will hurt him (i’m talking about the golden period when evrything was ok between us ) i never used drugs, but from the description i can read about it, the feeling ressembles love, the good feeling results mainly from the anticipation, but when you actually get it, it is not as good as you imagined it, i would be missing him wanting to talk to him and when i finally do i’m always desapointed. so no, narcissist are not missing any good stuff by not feeling love.
i agree that loving my parents and my brother does not hold such side effects, but only because i’m lucky enaught they are good people, i saw the devastation unhealthy families bring into a loving person, and it is worst than any romantic entanglement could do.
Hello liza 🤗
I agree with what the lack of parental love can do. Yes, it is devastating. And the pain and conditioning of that abuse can last a life time.
But that is what makes love so important.
To take horrific treatment and refuse to pass it on to your own children. To break the chain of abuse and replace it with unconditional love that can change the next generation for the better and then the next.
The only side effect to love for me is when love comes along that wasn’t meant to be shared with me. Yes, it hurts like hell, but then it’s paved the way for what’s next. Which is a very exciting thought after the pain starts to subside.
Try not to give up on love liza. Maybe you were only dealt the hand you have been given because you are strong enough to get through, what someone else might not have.
Don’t lose hope and don’t let them permanently change you liza.
Stay you. Stay bright. Try to keep your chin up.
xoxoxoxo
Soon: What do you mean, “again”?
Hi Violetta.
Oh!! You’re right, of course.
I keep forgetting that Narcissists have never experienced romantic love in the first place.
I suppose I forget the details so easily as I can’t personally relate. I can only learn, over time to appreciate a different perspective.
One day I’ll shock you all by remembering. Er…..I wouldn’t recommend holding ones breath though, at least for a while. 😉
I see this in the narc …it’s like watching commercials …and all the families in catalogs wearing matching pajamas …keep on moving , keep on making the buck, keep on keeping on …aaaaahhh. When I go into assisted living centers everything has haulted in their lives ….everything stops …..and slowly dies is one way to see it .
There are many ways to see it …I see it differently depending on my life . I sometimes see that they have no idea how they are taken care of ….they are complaining about the mashed potatoes …they don’t see how this is luxury to some ….outside these locked doors . They can’t compare or relate to others lives because they have a narrow perspective and blinders on . We as empaths see your perspective …some of us . I can feel others feelings …my body actually feels it and places myself in a situation if I want to learn …and relate . But, I’m left with my perspective after I get out of your perspective …I need to survive also. I have children that need me . I realize this power and don’t want to abuse it . Your brain doesn’t allow you to see or feel others perspectives …and you don’t care to and it’s “weak” to do it or “think it” for you. Whether this is a lobe in your brain empty of matter or blend of variants in your life
…at least you are exploring it with words and writings.
The words you choose to use are your choices. I’m not sure if you feel these words …but you know we do .
It’s a tragedy. I’m sorry for you, but I thank you. Hating him wasn’t enough to assure my freedom. Pitying him was, and is.
And that’s the end of it for me. One time, after one of my many attempts to get away from him had failed due to emotional thinking, he said: “I’m only here because you feel sorry for me.” I wish I had recognized the truth of that at the time. Now I understand that I can pity the poor broken tragic monster he is — and I can finally let go.
Explaining to the empaths not you HG. The ones who want to convince you to try. Ive read so many comments as such and it’s a waste of time.
That may be Jess, but we (myself included) do seemingly futile things all the time, like staying in bad situations when we should have left long ago. In this case I don’t mind hoping. Nothing to lose there. However if HG says stop posting it then I will, although I will still think it and pray for it….
We all make choices. You won’t fucking die. You don’t want to. There’s a difference.
You’re absolutely right, they won’t die. Their cruel actions towards others is a choice. It is deplorable and not to be condoned in any way. Despite their lack of ability to care about other people, they do still know right from wrong. So yes they could choose to act differently regardless of anything else.
But for someone to feel that way inside is also an awful thing.
I feel sorry for them in that they are missing so much, whilst simultaneously hating their choices.
“Their cruel actions towards others is a choice. ”
No, I don’t think it’s a choice for them, because most if them are not as reflected as HG is.
As far as I did understand it, at least the Lesser and the MR can’t change their behaviour.
“My” narc keeps telling me “That’s me; that’s the way I am; that’s a part of me I don’t like myself etc blabla”
PityPlay, but I guess unconsciously.
And yet you claim there’s nothing that needs fixing in you. You claim that to you this existence isn’t tiring, it’s your normality. You seem to even enjoy the way you are.
If only you could experience life without the narcissism. Without the constant need for fuel from others. To be content as your own person and to make yourself whole. How much lighter and freer you would feel.
It’s like the blind man not missing the beautiful sunset because you can’t miss what you’ve never had.
You don’t realise how beautiful life could be. You’ve never seen that sunset. You are comfortable in your darkness, but oh how much more you could be.
I’m sorry, HG, that something went wrong somewhere for you. I’m sorry you’ll never see the sunset.
Bad ass art work HG. As far as the writing for this one, Spectacular!The way each word, each sentence, builds and builds from start to finish, I can almost feel the energy coming off of every word. I have read it often, but tonight I could finally understand and feel what you must do to survive! Thank you HG for sharing your knowledge and talent with us.
Thank you FM1T and you are welcome.