Why Does The Narcissist Seem So Odd?
It is accurate to state that we operate in three essential states. There are varying degrees within those states, differing levels of intensity which are affected by factors such as the type of narcissist that we are, what we require from you, the level of empathic individual you are as well as several others.
Nevertheless, there are three basic states.
The first, as you would expect, is the golden setting. We are at our most wonderful, most brilliant and most loving when in this state. This always appears during our seduction of you and we will reinstate it from time to time and often when we hoover you in order to suck you back in and keep you hanging on to us.
The second is the dark setting when we instigate our devaluation of you. This dark setting allows us to deploy our various machinations against you, a variety of different manipulations as the abuse begins and we make your life particularly unpleasant. This requires effort and energy on our part and whilst we will be rewarded with fuel, a certain degree of application is required to use these manipulations against you. When we unveil our dark setting it is upsetting and confusing but often you will find some reason to explain our behaviour.
It is usually the wrong reason but you will find one nevertheless as you like to understand and have a reason to explain why someone is behaving in a certain way towards you – you decide we are stressed, tired, hungover, in need of affection or perhaps you are unduly harsh on yourselves so that you, in that usual empathic manner, blame yourself for the behaviour we have meted out against you. Perhaps you did not listen when you ought to have done, perhaps you should have realised that we wanted to go out tonight, or that we would not want chicken for a second time this week.
There is a third setting and this often proves more confusing than our unpleasant dark setting. This setting might be regarded as a neutral setting, somewhere between the golden and the dark, but it is not. This setting is on the road to the dark setting and is closer to that than the golden. This particular setting is the stranger setting.
There will be times when we do not wish to apply considerable energy to our continued devaluation of you, but the devaluation must continue. It may not be as harsh, since there is no shouting, no violence, no insults and such like.
It is not the golden period because we show no affection, we do not do things for you and we do not exhibit any of the charm that once flowed so readily from us. During this stranger setting we are neither wonderful nor awful but we behave like someone who doesn’t really know you and you are certainly left feeling like you are dealing with somebody else.
If you telephone us we will not dole out a silent treatment and ignore your repeated calls. We will not answer in less than a ring and speak to you with affection and enthusiasm, instead we answer and engage in a monosyllabic conversation. It is like drawing teeth. We confirm that nothing is wrong and you may think there is but we have not responded angrily or harshly.
We have not accused you of anything, we have not labelled you in some way but the conversation is flat. It is as if our personality, whether golden or dark has vanished and left almost an automaton in its place. We function, we talk about our day but with little detail and certainly no enthusiasm. We ask questions of you but they are polite and perfunctory as if we are just going through the motions. There is no nastiness, no backbiting or sneering. It is difficult to process because it is not nothing, that cannot be the case because we are talking to you, but it feels like nothing.
We may call around to see you but it feels like an inspector has called around. We sit, we decline a drink that you offer us and we answer your questions without offering you anything much in return.
Where has the charmer gone? Where has the monster gone? Who is this stranger that looks like us, sounds like us but is not behaving like us? You cannot accuse us of being unpleasant but it feels unpleasant because you are dealing with someone you do not recognise. Any questions about what is wrong with us are politely answered and you are assured there is not a problem, but we seem lifeless. You flatter us, compliment us and whilst we accept them there is no spark of interest, there is no response.
Why are we like this? Why is this being done? Why do we seem like someone else? It is as if we have been abducted by aliens in the night and replaced with a robot which is neither wonderful nor savage but is frustratingly something else.
This third setting occurs during the devaluation period. It is not a respite from devaluation as that is the golden setting once more. It is clearly not the dark setting as that is the rolling out of nastiness and abuse. This third setting is an indicator of the calm before the storm.
Whilst there are occasions where we might switch from golden to dark setting in the blink of an eye, this third setting is used when we wish to conserve energy in readiness for unleashing a particular savage next stage in the devaluation as we will move to the dark setting and crank it up to eleven. You are not cruising along being driven by fair winds, nor are you being thrown up and down buffeted by a storm, instead you are becalmed or moved along by a weak breeze.
This is the time we are girding our loins, gathering information and plotting. The switch of functions to the organisation and scheming of what is to come, along with the intense outpouring of energy required to sustain the vicious intensifying of this devaluation means we adopt this near automatic state. You may not ever see this happen dependent on the nature of the narcissist you have become entangled with, but when you do, you should be aware that a storm is brewing and not just any old storm but a supercell storm of savage and damaging proportions.
This is a warning.
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I’ve read through this monster (and by some apparently forbidden) thread before and had on mind to react to this particular post by Bibi. I will quote from it selectively, hope that is okay.
“Yes, most definitely tests are not accurate, be it MBTI or Enneagram. I can’t tell you how many mistype on the Enneagram. But the key is to read it and see what resonates with you.
(…)
I have mentioned before that I think the Enneagram is one of the deepest tests there is, albeit it is still theory but can be a great guide into your personality.
I just learned there is an Emily Dickinson biopic. (…)
Emily: Enneagram 5w4
I believe HG is a 3 with balanced wings of 2 and 4. I see a lot of 3w4.
Bibi: 4w5 with strong 3 wing.
I have suspected NA to be an 8w9.
Just sayin’. It’s fun, yo!”
This is one of the weirdest things I’ve experienced. I am a pretty rational person and a scientist, but never averse to anything new, weird, even esoteric… just curious about anything that attempts to explain human nature, life, the Universe etc. This Enneagram test has been the single most useful exercise for me to understand myself and my constructive and maladaptive tendencies. I was trying to reject it for a while claiming that there is no solid foundation, but in reality there has never been anything explaining me, to me, better. It attempts to classify and explain lots of aspect of human personality and behavior at large that really appeals to me despite its lack of solid evidence – a relatively simple system but so useful to understand others and navigate the social realms. MBTI was also interesting but this is far deeper and more helpful when looking at dynamics, development and long-term strategies.
As far as Bibi’s typing:
I am 5w4, like Emily. Sx/Sp/So, if that means anything to anyone about the instinctual stack.
I dug pretty deeply into this and feel reasonably confident about my intuitive assessment of others as well. Bibi’s typing of HG might be correct, but I could come up with a couple more alternatives as well. It is not always easy to categorize virtually, without direct experience.
H.G. Just rereading this and it has cleared up something for me. I was not sure if the stranger mode was a separate stage that takes place between G.P. proper and the commencement of devaluation. I now see that it falls within the devaluation cycle and when an N does utilise it instinctively (for all but the greater) the breakdown of the devaluation cycle might be for eg devaluation – GP respite – stranger – devaluation – stranger – devaluation – GP respite – stranger – devaluation and repeat. I’d imagine the factors you mention at the start of the article such as type of N, type of emapth/victim and what the N requires at the time, predicate if stranger mode occurs, and if it does, how often.
My question is: during a stranger period, would it be correct to say that there are no, even subtle instinctual manipulations being deployed? For e.g if the N initiates a respite, post deval session, and is responsive to the victim in a positive, ‘loving’ way, then a few days later is flat, then next time returns to responsive and ‘loving’ and then next time devalues either actively or via subtle demeaning, would the flat interaction coming before a subsequent ‘golden’ interaction actually be a devaluation? Would an N use ‘flatness’ as a form of deval, a way to create contrasts maybe, immediately prior to a ‘goldenish’ respite?
I am pleased this article has assisted you AnneB. Your conclusion in your second paragraph is accurate.
Dear Mr. HG Tudor,
1) I love your direct, logical way of thinking
2) You have incredible, unbelievable patience
In the end, I guess only those new to the blog can answer as to which was more damaging:
Noise pollution and banter about things seemingly unrelated to narcissism, or the possibility of being labelled and their comments inviting responses that result in a thread like this.
Not looking for responses, this is just something we can all reflect on.
NA—can you be the narcissist this week?
Lorelei
This week? I am a narcissist every week according to some, although it is not pointed out to me directly (hmm…). It’s been asserted that HG keeps some Mids around for his amusement, and bidding. I don’t think there’s any truth to it, but I’m sure I’m being superior in stating that because surely they know better than HG (which seems a bit superior in itself but I’m sure I’m mistaken…). I just accept their false perception of me and marvel at how emotional thinking can affect the thought process.
Correct HG, I don’t keep them around. They repeatedly come here. The only use they serve is to allow readers to observe and apply their learning. There are two in particular who repeatedly try and comment but they never make it past moderation. There’s a handful that continue to read, every so often they Hoover through email and comment. Very occasionally I will let a comment through so people can see how these types come back, most of the time I don’t allow them the air time, but they never disappear.
Why can I not be on the blog for days and this thread continues…..
Do I have to respond to all accusations, feedback or comment, no, does that mean I’m right, wrong, guilty, no, means I’m busy doing other things…
Can other people have an opinion yes, more than welcome!
Does it bother me, no
Does it hurt me, no
Will it change my mind, no
Do I care what people think of me or about me, no
Am I direct, yes. I have told someone I don’t like them yes.
Do i deflect, i have already explained my self defence mechanism. I deflect possible threats of control.
Am I hard to control you betcha, not because I say so, cos others tell me.
Can you twist me into submission, no
Unless it’s enjoyable…then yes.
Not much more left to say really.
Are we ready to move forward? Because final season of Vikings airs Dec 4 and that will require my full attention.
Nah it’s cool, Julie, ,go enjoy Vikings.
You’ve given us plenty to work with.
NarcAngel
It’s not just emotional thinking. We humans have a tendency to stubbornly hold on to our ideas and ignore evidence to the contrary. I don’t consider that emotion thinking, but I’m sitting at lunch with Pretzel n he disagrees with me. He says it does fall under emotional. So maybe I should let That idea go…..
Windstorm, could you remind me, Is pretzel a greater? Do you believe what he is saying is correct about it being emotional thinking? This comment is causing me to rethink some things.
Mercy,
Yes he is a greater cerebral. We were at lunch and after I sent my comment he told me his reasoning. It made sense but was fairly convoluted. Basically what I took away from it was that all reasoning is either logical, emotional or a mix of the two. What we call stubborn or closed-minded actually has its roots in emotional thinking, and is often caused by different types of fear.
He said he is much better attuned to spot emotional thinking than most people. I’d have to agree. He is spooky good at seeing into people’s real motives and agendas, especially if they are being devious or self-serving.
Thank you windstorm. I thought I remembered he was a greater. After thinking on it further, I can see that stubborn could be emotional thinking. I have a daughter who’d rather chew her tongue off than admit she is wrong. I have told her sisters that I see her stubbornness as she’s ashamed to admit she caused a fight. So maybe pretzels description of fear and my description of shame is one in the same.
PS I wanted to tell you I ordered a set of Mark Twain books for my grandson for Christmas. He’s probably a bit young for them but I think he will enjoy them in a few years. I know you love Mark Twain so I wanted to share.
Mercy
To me shame is just fear of other people’s negative opinions. I think we could probably break a lot of people’s negative behaviors down to some sort of fear. One of the points pretzel made was that people fail to recognize when the fears that are controlling their actions are irrational. That’s where emotional thinking comes in.
He used as an example someone who is afraid to drive thru St Louis because they had a bad experience driving there (referring to me). As opposed to rational fears, like the fear of stepping into the street in front of an oncoming car.
I do love Mark Twain! There’s an example of a very obnoxious narcissist, but he had a lot of insight into human nature and the ability to spin a great story. Two of the better traits of smart narcs!
Windstorm, I remember you saying once that you enjoyed having intellectual conversation with him. I see now why. Most of us don’t experience that with a narcissist because we are dealing with mids and lessor’s. My mid was very intelligent but once the illusion was gone he saw no need to impress me with his intelligence. The conversations were no longer enjoyable.
Metcy,
I think a lot of it is that he is a cerebral, too. He gets a lot of his fuel by pointing out insights and understanding to those of his inner circle that we didn’t pick up on ourselves. If you get your fuel by wowing people with your wit and understanding, then obviously you must continue to have intellectual conversations with your fuel sources.
Notice how he did the little negative dig by incorporating my fear of driving in St Louis as his example of emotional fear. He didn’t reference me specifically and if anyone else had been listening they would never have known. That’s a common occurrence when talking to him. When I made the appropriate response (which was to smile and say nothing ), I could feel his rush of pleasure. He has a perverse enjoyment of hiding insults in conversations that only the insulted party will pick up on. He also loves to make observations and double entendres that only those of us close to him will understand.
Life is just a big game to him that he never ceases to play. I’m sure he continues to play with me because I’m smart enough to acknowledge his intelligence, yet dumb enough to constantly be suitably impressed.
I see how that would be frustrating. The little digs that no one else would pick up on. Those kind of mind games for a person that is unaware of what they are dealing with could drive them to question their own sanity.
Thank you for clarifying
Hahaha. Make like Frozen and Let It Go………
Just kidding. I remember you love that movie and song.
I was being kind in only listing emotional thinking. I think there are other issues at play as well.
So you’re both right. Each can pay for their own lunch to settle that bet lol.
NarcAngel
Yep. Favorite movie, favorite song.
He had a pretty convincing argument. And I had no intention of paying for lunch. So he “won” the honor of that too! Ha, ha!
NA
For someone to assert with any kind of confidence that you might be a narcissist is ludicrous. It goes to show some people need to read more and apply the new found knowledge. I wish we could all step away from the labelling and just point out narcissistic tendencies (sense of entitlement, lack of accountability etc.) in a detached manner when we see them. I certainly never saw you portray any of those and your straightforward manner is only for the best.
If we were narcissists we wouldn’t know it though! Yet, I feel pretty certain I know
it since he told me I wasn’t? But now his empath test is in question! What a thread!
No, it´s not.
Not by me—I’m going to go for frozen yogurt and the ocean salty breeze while you fix the cracks in the boat.
Lorelei: Just because and individual questions something, such as a particular test, does not mean that your confidence nor my confidence nor anyone else`s confidence has to be automatically shaken. Especially when that someone has absolutely no experience with the test matter in question given at the level of HG Tudor, for example, and going as far as to say she or he does not agree with a certain test result without even ever seeing the test. So one does not even know what aspect of the test that person is even taking about. And neither does that person. For, example, Is it question number 7 or number 3? Or, have they not even seen nor taken the test, yet we are supposed to take their comment at face value, regarding said test? I have experiences and discussions with certain very intelligent people that create tests, even on a national level, as well as for powerful companines. And there are ways to implement traps and fail safes into tests to get around many people that try to control the results of a test. In fact, many test makers take those sort of individuals seriously, whether or not the person is deliberately trying to control the test result. And, we know that HG is a behavioral genius, your very own determination, with a very strong defense and survival mechanism, and he absolutely wants to know the truth about all matters great and small, including about himself, even when the truth is ugly or offensive and we have witnessed this about him, day after day and year after year, as well. So, if you take any test at all on this planet seriously and the results seriously, I suggest you put HG`s test in this category of an Excellent Test with Excellent Results. I do. And remember, he is State Of The Art in his field, so those that take his tests in particular, do not have the experience and knowledge regarding the subject matter, (much of which he has not even disclosed yet) to deceive him in this particular subject matter and dynamic, and arena of his proven expertise.
Thoughtful Princess. The important thing is that I know what happened in my life and that is where the truth rests. I also know what’s happening now and I’m absolutely exuberant over some of my ideas. Everything contrary to that is noise. It’s 60+ degrees and absolutely dreamy where I am. It’s a good day for many reasons.
HG, for the purpose of learning, could the empath test being in question, be considered a form of manipulation in order to deflect from the original issue at hand?
Do you mean, somebody questioning the EDC could be a form of manipulation by deflecting?
I’m better at explaining with examples. It’s only how I interpreted it and I’m wondering if my interpretation of deflection is correct.
J accused L of being a narcissist
L proved she was not a narcissist by revealing her ED test
Other readers were upset that J refused to admit she was wrong
One reader mentioned that the ED detector was questionable
J then said yes, no test are perfect therefore L’s results are questionable.
My interpretation was, IF j was a narcissist, using the excuse that the ED is questionable could be a way to deflect so that an admission of being wrong could be excused.
Also keeping on mind that early in the conversation J said she would have no problems taking a ED test.
Thank you for clarifying.
You are correct.
Thank you
I’m not sure what you mean Mercy—I know you asked HG but the question seems thoughtful.
Lorelei, see my explanation above.
Lorelei: I admire your strength. I have said so, before. I admire the strength of many of the women on here. It is too much to ask for everyone to get along. And, it is not going to happen during this era. So, it is nothing to lose sleep about, in general. But, the strength is good to see, and it is good to see new people cutting their teeth and becoming stronger and stronger as well, and not running away. If I had one piece of advice to new people (which includes me, for myself as well, as I still have not hit the one year mark on here), it would be to try NOT to choose sides overly much on here among so strong a diverse group of many people, to really grow on here. And to try to learn from everyone, as much as possible. HG listens to ALL of us, and he is my role model, for me to do likewise. And, HG Tudor permits a lot of free speech on his site, which is not usual at all these days. So as we advance and speak out more, we may in fact say something that surprisingly (at times) to ourself, offends someone, or offends many, at any given time, and on any given day. This happens a lot when people are allowed to speak out more. Offenses happen. Something is always going to offend someone, and sometimes, even, you may say something or have a belief that actually offends the very person/s that you least thought would be offended. This happens on discussions about such a diversity of topics. That is why I would suggest, if we really want to make the best of the phenomenon of both this site and of HG Tudor`s brilliance, for us to be true to our own growth in particular and foremost, whether it be quick or slow or easy or difficult, to take on, and apply this remarkable information, personally. And to try NOT to be overly stuck on what some reader/s may think and then sadly become oddly stuck in our own personal growth, unnecessarily. And then, regrettably, to become worried about what you will say next on any given topic or article. Be and stay brave. Because, we each know more of the minute and secret details of the dynamic of our own life, whether we somewhat disclose much of it publicly, or not, like Lorelei is saying, including if we choose to disclose more of our dynamic privately within our personal consultations with HG Tudor. We have so many choices on here and a lot of freedom, so do not get yourself stuck: And, therein lies our true growth in applying all of HG Tudor`s amazing knowledge, found here on Narciste, and throughout his body of remarkable work, according to my observations and according to my take on it all.
Thanks Princess—my entire life is in flux. I am hilariously rather reserved in my real life 75% of the time. When I went on vacation with a colleague she was worried I would be too uptight but she quickly changed her view after a few drinks. I’m often viewed as a perfectionist and rigid but I’m less of these things than perceived. It’s been an issue for my daughters that I’m trying to strategize dealing with. I’m shifting and becoming much less passive with things that bother me—I got very direct with a family member last night for behavior and it made me a bit nervous. (Not narcissism but some victim drama) I am ok with the same feedback. I’m not strong—I’m becoming more direct and not accommodating “uncomfortable” to the same extent previously in my life. HG is an excellent teacher indeed. As bananas as I’ve been I knew the work was excellent.
PrincessSuperEmpath
Very well said.
NarcAngel, I am glad you are confident enough to brush these opinions off and stay true to who you are.
Mercy
It’s easy. They’re lightweights next to StepN and he failed.
He sure did!
NA
Your comment seems to be filled with words taken from one of my comments and that you are insinuating something that I didn’t say. Nowhere did I ever say you were a narcissist. In fact you asked me point blank if I had included you in what I was saying – if I thought you were a narcissist, and I clearly said you were a mystery to me. A mixture of big sis and rowdy person. When you next asked if a sis rowdy person could be an empath, I simply stated that I didn’t know. I also said I didn’t presume to include anyone in my comment. But you keep referring back to it and implying that I was calling you a narc. Narc angel, you are the only one who has accused you of being a narc, as far as my comment goes. I did not.
HG’s empath detector is accurate for empaths. There is no doubt.
But telling a narcissist they are a narc is useless, as they can’t hear it or accept it. They aren’t the silly abusive narc’s that come on here from time to time. They are the ones I stated that can serve a purpose, even be helpful with comments. Again I did not name anyone and stated that I did not presume to include anyone specifically.
I even mentioned in my reply to you that I noticed you seem to be unconvinced about yourself on different posts as if you were questioning it.
Please stop projecting that onto me. And my use of that word is not an accusation, it is just the most accurate.
Kel
Those are two separate sentences and two separate issues. There have been many to suggest that I am a narcissist, so that was not pointed specifically at you, and a very few who have charged it directly. The second sentence does pertain to your comments. I asked you if a big sister rough houser could be an empath with narc traits and you replied that you didn’t know. Fair enough and I respected your answer. You also made the statement that HG keeps some Mids around for his amusement, bidding etc. I was surprised that you thought that and so thought others might as well. I considered the possibility. I asked directly if you considered me one of these Mids and you replied that if you did that it was a stupid question but did not answer yes or no.
I made a comment about being confirmed by HG to be an S.E. I made it to give readers something to think about when weighing Julie’s comments as she mentioned that she identified with being one. That sometimes we can come across as narcissists when we are not. I never identified Julie as being a narcissist and pointed that out a few times. Some people failed to recognize that I was actually giving Julie the benefit of the doubt and that given time, we might see other indicators of an empath. It was you who followed with the comment about card-carrying SE’s that are all me me me while saying they are nothing special. Seemed pretty clear that was directed at my comment. So far off the mark of my intent but I accept that’s how you see it.
HG may not tell a narcissist that they are a narcissist, but I doubt he tells them they’re an empath. Your comment still suggests that you still believe he keeps some around other than those who appear time to time, and since you said you were unsure about me that could include me.
I am not unconvinced about what I am and don’t know what comments you are referring to that suggest that. There are plenty of people who may not like me and find my comments annoying, but as I pointed out previously – annoyance does not equal narcissist. what I got from your comments is that you think I’m superior in stating that I am an SE and are annoyed by my comments about it, and that you might suspect I am a narcissist but that I would ultimately reject it, so you say there is no point in telling me instead of being direct and just saying yes or no.
I am not projecting Kel. I read your words and that’s what I’m hearing.
1. I do not keep Mid Range Narcissists around on this blog for my amusement. I explained the position yesterday as to my treatment of them in this place. I am repeating this to ensure there is no misunderstanding.
2. NA is a SE as per the ED.
3. I do not tell a narcissist that they are a narcissist, there is no point (for reasons explained many times on this blog). I do not tell them they are an empath.
NA
I answered your candid questions honestly, as you requested. I was not implying anything and I do not spend anytime wondering about it. I said honestly that you’re a mystery as you seem like a big protective sis but then a rough house other times. Whether you can be that as an empath with narcissist traits, I answered I don’t know- that’s why it’s a mystery to me I guess- also why ask me what I think about you? I don’t think about you, and it’s not my place to.
I did Not say HG keeps mids around for his amusement!
I said they can serve a purpose and even be helpful on comments. I’m not a black and white thinker, I see the good and bad in all of us, I’ve got nothing against the color gray. I can like narcissists, it’s just not healthy to get too close to them.
What I was disputing about super empath is that the high narcissism an empath has does not make them a narcissist. That the only time any empath comes close to being like a narcissist, is if they have a supernova. I said an empath with high narcissistic traits is closer to being a Normal than they are to being a narcissist. My point was stop using super empath as an excuse for bad behavior- to agree with you- and to carry it further to explain the high narcissism in an empath is used for good purposes such as in disciplining a child as HG said before, or even in having pride.
I read in your comments that you are indicating I’m calling you a narcissist. I just wanted to make it clear that I never did.
Thank you for the clarification, Kel.
HG
I’m glad you finally got clarification on something Kel said. I got backpedaling on innuendo she made in previous comments about mysterious SE’s and Mids in residence.
It wasn’t final NA.
Kel
“Maybe he tells them whatever they want to hear that fits their facade because that’s the only thing their narcissism allows them to believe. Their presence here serves a purpose as they tend to want to reap the rewards of having a close association with HG, they will dote over him, kiss up, they carry out useful roles for him, and can actually be helpful commenters”
“He seems to really dislike the goofy lessers that come on from time to time, so he lets it be a field day for the mid readers to have a food fight that day and enjoy themselves.”
Both of these comments appear to indicate that there are narcissists in residence on a regular basis as opposed to just once in awhile and that HG is aware of it and uses it to his advantage. Apologies for using the word amusement. I was referring more to the second comment where food fight and enjoyment were used.
I know you have not called me a narcissist directly. That’s the point. You say you don’t know about me in particular, but then you make these comments that indicate you believe there are some here who regularly comment. Well who are they then? Why be obscure? You’ve already said they won’t accept it but at least the rest of us would be clear.
And if not me, who are the “card carrying” SE’s who are me, me, me, while pretending to be nothing special? I don’t know too many that have been confirmed by HG and it came right after my comment so it was a bit pointed wouldn’t you say? Others noted the same about your comment, so it was not just me who took it that way.
So who are these resident mids?
Who are these card carrying SE’s?
Let’s be direct.
Julie was direct. You said you admired that, so it shouldn’t be a problem.
Kel
Also, you subsequently made a comment about people being in a tower. I said there is only one in a tower – HG, and he put himself there. Your response was an eye roll. Weren’t you indicating again that there are those besides HG that think themselves superior and reside in a tower? Did I misinterpret that comment too? The eye roll was not meant as disrespect?
NA
I honestly do not have time for this back and forth quarreling nonsense. You obviously are not interested in obtaining a peaceful and reasonable conclusion.
I didn’t name you as a narcissist, so why are you so stuck on it? That’s on you, not me.
I think your comments are rude, and it’s not my cup of tea to respond to that kind of rhetoric.
I was talking to Julie about the tower. Why does it bother you so much?
I have to literally leave for an appointment. I cannot believe that you want to go on accusing me of things, being upset, and taking my comments personally.
Smear if you want, talk bad all you want, get angry all you want. If anyone wants to believe it, that’s on them. I don’t have time for this or interest, it’s that simple.
Though it’s worth pointing out your failure to respond constructively to the contradictions in your comments which I highlighted for you and your use of an ad hominem attack.
Why did it bother you so much to throw the metaphorical second punch after Julie, when she was addressing other people and not you or is it the case that it’s acceptable for you to express your views but when others wish to express theirs, it is not permissible?
HG
I am at a red light in my car. I don’t have time to respond, and quite frankly the interest either. If you want to take that as a victory for whatever this is, go for it. You follow NA around and agree with everything she says and defend her always like a whipped puppy, and that’s what I mean by the tower and that it’s protected. That doesn’t mean those you protect aren’t empaths, they can be too. Funny you replied to NA on this thread as HG, which was funny considering.
I’m at my appointment, I will not be late on account of this. I’m not bothered by whatever it is you guys are going on about, and suspect you’ve taken it wrong or out of context. But there, have a field day, tear me down, I have to go. If I’m not comfortable commenting here, then I won’t.
Yet you did respond. Despite having no interest. Your comment is high on emotion and lacking in substance. All noted.
By the way, you appear to be having an appointment at a red light. How unusual.
Mind how you go.
Hope you’re appointment went well, kel.
It went very well, thank you for asking Lisk
Kel
I’m not angry at all and I do want to resolve this – thus the discussion (I don’t see it as a quarrel). I have asked you to clarify things you’ve said in order to effect that. Asking for clarification is not accusing you of things, being upset, or taking your comments personally. It’s also not smearing, talking bad, or being angry. It is simply asking you to clarify statements that you have made in order to determine who these people are that you see as card carrying SE’s who are me, me, me, while pretending not to be better than anyone else, and the Mids that are here on a regular basis that kiss up to HG, dote over him, and carry out useful roles for him, that he then rewards with allowing them to have food fights with the lessers that pop in. These are your assertions not mine. I am only asking you to back up what you assert and to clear any misconception by stating who they are. Once again – you said you admire direct, and people standing up for what they believe in, so I didn’t think you’d have a problem with that.
If you want to resolve things that is. If not, then saying you’re busy or have no interest is another way out. That’s cool. I understand.
Kel:
Please don’t look at your phone at red lights unless it’s to do a brief check of directions for the next turn. No discussion is worth your safety.
Violette n Kel
I agree completely with Violetta’s comment. Not only does reading n replying to blog comments while you are at red lights make you less attentive to your driving and the traffic around you, but it is not healthy or productive for you. Even though you are sitting stopped at the red light, what you want to type will occupy your mind and continue to do so when the light turns green.
You will be happier and more effective if you focus on one activity at a time when you are out and about. Then focus on the blog when you have time to focus on it. I know this is difficult to do, since we value multitasking, but it really works. At least in my experience.
Good advice, Thank you Violetta.
NarcAngel, Wouldn’t it be nice if people would own their words. Then conversations like this wouldn’t happen, red lights wouldn’t be ran, people would make it to appointments on time….
NA
I own all the words I said. I mean everything I say. I do not like it when you rewrite what I say as in ‘HG keeps mids around for amusement’??? Where the hell did that come from?
Your not mad at all??? That’s funny because you blasted three highly emotional posts at me just before I had to leave.
I had a real appointment to go to. It was not made up to get out of answering you. I have a life, and I’m busy building a new life after the narc. I cannot be on here 24/7. I was at a red light and took a look at the thread and had time to start a reply to HG, then the light changed and I finished my reply when I got to my destination.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea what you’re questioning. I also have zero obligation to answer your questions. Where does it say I’ve got to?
I stand solidly behind everything I’ve said, but I bloody well do not have to painstakingly take anymore time to break it down and explain it to the likes of you.
I think you have shown your true colors. And no, there’s no emotion on my part no matter how many times you want to say it because I’m simply not impressed.
So rant all you want, make all the childish insinuations you want. I don’t see anything empathetic from you on this string.
You wanted a reply and there it is. Please note I have no desire to comment further with you on this, and I won’t.
I agree. No further comment needed from either. The venom filled rant before this one side-stepping the questions and describing HG as “whipped” clarified things nicely. This post was just an added extra glimpse.
So that should be the end. We’ll see.
Hi Zwartbolleke! I am sorry I’m just now responding to you. I appreciate your observation of taking the questions seriously. Much of this was so noisy it was hard for me follow and some comments were missed. Hope you comment more often! Many of the threads don’t get this busy as you know.
This thread is a clusterfuck of ass. But I have to give my comment. I am scared to take the ED test b/c something so accurate freaks me out. Not that I am not open and curious, but I am scared. (I sound like I am speaking about anal, lol.)
W/o compromising it, can someone give me more detail? Are the questions situation based? Couldn’t a Mid Ranger just tell you what you want to hear?
My fear is that I am a Mid Ranger and don’t know it or some boring ass normal with narc traits or some shit.
Why? Why do I freak out about these things? I feel like an asshole a lot of the times. Anyway, those are some of my unfiltered thoughts.
Welcome back, HG. We missed you.
It is designed to overcome the issue that you relate to. The answers provide an outcome in isolation but also in the collective which guards against the concern that you have. It is specifically designed to prevent second-guessing.
I am dying of curiosity. But I gots to save up my dollars, in the interim. I wonder those who you informed were Mid Rangers and how they reacted. That would suck. I know that my douche bag would never accept it.
HG—I hate to be a pain but I thought you weren’t giving empath results on here (in this or any thread) and NA’s were clearly stated in a post up above by you. I find this confusing that this thread went on for days with banter as to my mental stability, questioning results, etc. I think it’s a fair inquiry.
Well you would think it a fair enquiry as you have asked it.
I had NA´s permission to disclose the information. I did so to prevent spiralling.
Makes no sense—it did spiral for over two weeks. Had there been a need to prevent such you could have and simply did not. I’m just calling it what it was—a spiraling mess for a few weeks. You also told Mercy in this thread she wasn’t a narcissist. I think the word or accusation is of little consequence really—it’s simply a devaluation by omission is all. That’s my view—it may not be your view. I think it makes me want to be more all encompassing of valuing people by seeing through what I don’t do as opposed to what I do. I’m not trying to be a jerk—it’s just the thought I have. It’s also not mine to suggest I deserve any courtesy—it’s just maybe a consequence of the time you have in a given moment, how sick you may indeed be of a particular thread, etc. Unfortunately there are messages conveyed when parity of correcting labels are hit or miss.
See the Rules with regard to pruning.
Is this word salad? What rules? What does pruning have to do with allowing two weeks of narcissism be thrown in one direction and halting it in others?
No it is not.
The rules of this site, you know, the ones with are in the blog menu. The rules which will be published again this afternoon because you all need to re-read them.
I have already explained, several times, why the thread proceeded as it did. I did so again earlier today. I am not repeating myself. You are continuing to perpetuate the thread when I have stated that the issue is concluded.
Sorry Loreili, ‘Well you would think it a fair enquiry as you have asked it’ – that did make me laugh HG.
I don’t keep up with all the threads. It’s not funny what everyone has been putting you through though Loreili, just ignore them and don’t read their comments. Apply NC
Bibi
Don’t know if this will help, since it’s just based on my experience, but I’ve known a whole lot of narcs and they NEVER worry if they are a narcissist. The higher level ones may occasionally “wonder” If they are narcs, but they are lying to manipulate. Midrangers refuse to honestly consider it. Their minds rebel and flee at the very idea.
I have an upper midranger friend who asked me, “How can you tell if someone is a narc?” The. she said shocked, “That sounds like me! You don’t think I’m one do you?” Then immediately she changed the subject and never mentioned narcissists ever again. Their minds rebel and flee at the very idea.
So if you’re actually worrying that you may be a midranger, that’s a good sign that you needn’t worry. My opinion.
Hi windstorm!
Its nice to see you back here 🤗 hope youve been well!
Chihuahuamum
Thank you! I’m still kicking. Hope all is well with you. 😊
Well said , Kel👍🏻! I second your post regarding Julie and MommyPino👍🏻.
Whoa! What in the world happened here!? HG are you enjoying your popcorn as you are watching the drama unfold? ) We need the great Narc master to come back and put an end to this! It is way too much drama for your awesome blog, wow!
HG,
Help! There is just too many.
So this is where everyone has been all week. Luckily, I had a free couple of hours when I found it so I could make nachos (true story) and read the comments.
The worst thing I saw was some people trying to back others into a corner. You all know that this is a bullying tactic, right? It also makes for circular conversations like the ones on this thread. You won’t get anywhere that way. Calling someone a narcissist is not the worst thing in the world either, but ironically Lorelei seems to be the only one who sees that. Lorelei, you handled things really well as far as I can tell.
For the record, I don’t think anyone on here is a true narc, except for HG of course. Some have high ET and some have high LT, some have lots of narc traits and some have few, but no one has demonstrated anywhere near HG’s level of detachment (clearly).
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Kim e and CIF where are you? (jk).
SMH,
A crunchy snack is the perfect accompaniment to this thread.
Haha lisk. A SNARKY crunchy snack.
SMH,💜
LOL…no worries, I’ll always be up for the “Come, Please Help Me Not Screw Anything Else Up” thread…oh, and the film one too, with MP. I’ll be well-rounded!😎
CIF, I will look for you elsewhere then! xo
SMH. I am here. Just staying out of the bullshit….er mayhem….er tearing down of each other. Disappointed in the people that are supposed to be helping each other. Like watching an AA meeting implode. And truly not knowing what to think of HG’s silent treatment
Other than that just practicing my NC by not replying
How am I doing…😂😂😂😂😂👿👿👿👿👿
Kim e, good on you! I think HG is gallivanting around my city visiting museums, but that is all I have been able to glean. When the cat is away the mice will play. See you elsewhere 🙂
There’s blocking into a corner in order to bully
And there’s presenting facts, evidence, and asking questions and not giving up and letting the TRUE bully get away with spinning nonsense and not being accountable.
If someone is bullying me here aka flat out calling me a dangerous, manipulative narcissist without any exchange of convo between us beforehand (which is what happened)
Then I’d be relieved to see ppl stay focused and asking she explain herself and be accountable.
The thread doesn’t read as a story. The comments were in a certain time placement- you can’t come into the end of a conversation and sum up what just happened in a conversation accurately if you weren’t there to listen to it.
Yes it’s all written out, but it’s disjointed.
Pls understand I’m speaking in a neutral fashion and am not criticizing but only offering my response to a couple of points.
WokeAF,
“If someone is bullying me here aka flat out calling me a dangerous, manipulative narcissist without any exchange of convo between us beforehand (which is what happened)
Then I’d be relieved to see ppl stay focused and asking she explain herself and be accountable.”
This is why I stayed and commented. I felt that Lorelei was being unfairly accused. If someone is going to present their view as “logic” then they should be able to defend with “real” evidence.
Got it, WAF. I admit that I might have missed some of the 900+ comments! My tendency would have been to walk away (figuratively speaking) but I realize not everyone is like that.
SMH, what puzzles me about your comment is why did it take 2 hours to make nachos?? Isnt it like chips and cheese? Maybe a couple garnishments. Haha I figured you would put a word in for Julie. We don’t see eye to eye on that but it’s still good to hear from you. How have you been?
Hi Mercy! Two hours to make the nachos (with olives, mind you) AND to read the comments :). I wasn’t really defending anyone. I don’t feel that I know Julie well enough to make any judgment. Also, she did walk her accusation back. Maybe she was just testing her narc detection powers!
I think I asked you awhile back how you were because I had not seen you for quite awhile. Maybe you didn’t see it so glad I can ask again: How are you??!! I hope all is well with your family and Nex is not bothering you. I had a hoover scare over the past month but I discovered yesterday that the FB part of it was not MRN (a techie friend explained how bots work, name harvesting etc) and suddenly a huge weight was lifted and I began to think that I might be almost fully recovered. So I would say that I am very good for the moment!
Mercy,
Best sum up ever!*
“Basically Lorelei is a narc, were all dumb for interacting with someone so dangerous, we talk about stupid shit, we don’t know how to use a credit card and lorelei is a sex addict. Oh and Julie’s perfect and dates famous people.”
P.S. I am sincerely sorry for your current legal situation.
*Couldn’t find a reply button in the appropriate spot.
Who Cares,
Haha I figure that covers the main points. Everything else is just a blur.
And thank you, NC is making the legal stuff bearable.
Mercy
“NC is making the legal stuff bearable.”
Understood.
Whocares–I’m laughing out loud. If I am a sex addict but can’t figure out how to use a credit card how am I going to activate premium access for all the sex sites online? Don’t you have to have a credit card or a gift card to see the really good stuff? Also, just how good does it get if you can use the credit card?
Lorelei – ” If I am a sex addict but can’t figure out how to use a credit card how am I going to activate premium access for all the sex sites online?”
I am on public transit probably looking like one of ‘crazies’ due to laughing out loud at this.
Lorelei
The credit card issue was not aimed at you. It was a separate issue/annoyance directed at others.
Lorelei, The credit card/gift card issue was actually aimed at me and maybe at SP, though it isn’t anyone’s business except for ours and HG’s. (Funny how I was being talked about on a thread that I did not even know existed until way after the fact – wonder how often that happens – maybe I am not paranoid!). I briefly read over the comments again and I have no idea what you did ‘wrong.’ You were obviously just riffing/making a joke.
Thanks smh😀
Also smh it is truly nice to be on the side where being labeled a narcissist isn’t the worst thing as it means I’m gaining a grasp on how it’s not so diabolical and scary. My phone is acting up and won’t capitalize etc so excuse this post. Truly I just invited a Very likely narcissist to a party I’m having that I grew up with and I have a blast with her. They are people and the key is not to get positioned in such a way that we or I get hurt. My childhood friend is loyal for her own reasons as I am to her. Never mind her poor husband but that is his issue. They don’t eat bugs or drool. Some care for their families quite well. Let’s be realistic. Logical. They are not going anywhere and we are becoming empowered to coexist or goso.
Lorelei:
Rather than attempt to diagnose you or anyone on this site, I will say that I like reading your posts, and if I’m too busy with whatever I can always skip certain subthreads and look for the info I want. HG will be happy to inform you if you’ve put one too many posts on shopping, sex-free semesters, etc.
Again, I’m not qualified to diagnose anyone, but I can certainly decide I don’t like someone because he or she is a pompous jackass with a head so far up the rectum that it isn’t clear whether whether it ought to be pooped down or puked up. I do not place you in any such category, and neither do a sizable number of other readers here. You won’t be liked by everyone, but nobody is.
V
“You won’t be liked by everyone”
Very true, and that should not be a concern for anyone. A popularity contest is not the goal here or productive in any way. We do not need to take sides or divide into camps.
NA,
Are ya sure? No popularity contest? Because I’ve already made up a boatload of campaign posters & buttons -and printed up a batch of really cool-looking ballots…probably way too late to cancel all those worldwide radio spots, the skywriter & cute dancing bear event.😎
Lucy Ball! I’m in a super weird mood & will absolutely cartwheel my ass right outta here now!🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️
CIF
Umm……huh? Not sure how you received my comment to V or what you meant by yours.
NA,
I was just goofing around/being humorous! 🤸♀️ (Clearly, I’ve had too much caffeine & am high on new linoleum glue. Sorry I confused you).
Good idea to cartwheel out before your “weirdness” is misunderstood, CIF!
Bahaha you’re too cute Caroline! I will see you in the other thread. I cannot cartwheel though. I’m not talented like you. Love you!!! 😘😘😘
MP~You totally can do a cartwheel – you just need spotter to see what’s not aligned right. I’ll always spot you!🥰 See ya on the (thread) flipside🤸♀️XO!
Caroline:
Round-off back handspring followed by a back tuck, or no points.
Violetta,
I so can do that!! 🤸♀️
Caroline IF:
“AND SHE STICKS THE LANDING!!!”
😂 You’re so fun, Violetta💛
Very well said.
Thanks Violetta. I’m most amused by the dangerous assertion. Most narcissists aren’t dangerous anyway—just a pain in the ass which I can be—but it comes from a benign place. Like I’m always two minutes late for work. It’s not necessarily entitlement but I know I can squeeze more into my day and no one says anything. Sometimes something looks one way but the origin is not as it appears. Additionally, the banter with HG on here is not isolated to me or you. There is a sense of familiarity due to previous consults. See? No one knows this unless they are told. I just left the gym—my trainer and I adore one another. One could look at this and think we fawn on one another. We are like brother and sister. I have no psychiatric diagnosis and even if I did I would appreciate support and not branded as a nut job. I would not question what medicine someone is on or where they work because it’s none of my concern.
Lorelei:
Nothing she said changed my thoughts on you, so please carry on as always.
Thank you Bibi. I’m too tired for Machiavellian business today. Traveling, working, more travel tomorrow. Was at the beach—came home to work two days and return to the beach tomorrow. Maybe I can shift the tide tomorrow once my feet hit the water.
Also Bibi—it would be totally ridiculous to get overly emotional (for long) over such an event in an imaginary world with questionably “real” characters. I’m not thick skinned by any stretch but I’m not as thin skinned as could be the case or that I have seen. I’d be much more inclined to be “upset” over real world matters in day to day life. Maybe. I’m getting pretty adept at adopting a F off mentality these days. Some of the things that were said were not even conversations I had engaged in so I question the authenticity of the entire debacle to an extent.
Bravo, Lorelei. BTW I was just watching this scene. It could be worse. Jack could be following you. Is he scary or what? Holy shit. He is horrible and wonderful at once. I love Stanley so much. <3
I can’t open the link! Nothing scares me because remember, I am the danger!
I was able to open it! She was bananas with her bat! Poor Jack took a hit!
Lorelei, I totally agree. One of my best friends is also a narcissist. She is very generous and entertaining. I know what my limits are with her so I avoid her if I need attention. I have other friends for that! Also, here we all are having been involved with narcs, mostly in romantic relationships. If they did not have anything going for them I doubt most of us would have gone there.
SMH,
Interesting, on you & Lorelei’s narc friends…I know it’s not the same thing, but one of my longtime best friends is a SE for sure, and I used to work with her…there were so many co-workers who were downright scared/intimidated by her…to me, she is witty, funny, thoughtful, and an amazingly loyal friend, with the sweetest heart — I think she has to really trust you, for you to get all that essence back. She very much will calibrate to who she is dealing with, but she’s always fair & decent…work peeps would come to ask me to please handle their requests to her, as they were afraid to go to her directly. I’d go to her and she’d always be like, “Of course, no problem.” It was strange to me that nobody seemed to see her like I did. Even when I saw her being supposedly “harsh” (their take) with co-workers, I didn’t really see it as harsh or even intense…more like super focused/to the point/directive/no BS. I did notice her tone was warm with me and one other person – much more cool with others. I don’t have any narc friends…I don’t think.🤔Did you ever get a ST from your friend?
I like the phrase that she calibrates to who she is around. Very nice way to describe what people do.
Thanks, Lorelei🙂
CIF, People have extreme reactions to me, too – love or hate and not much in between – so maybe I am an SE after all!! 🙂 I can be pretty scary because I can turn it off, just like that, and never look back – MRN was an exception (I think narcs are for most of us). But I also like to think I am fair and generous, especially with junior colleagues at work, my kids etc. Little kids and animals love me. A lot of the juniors come to me because I don’t take any shit, tell it like it is (I am in a profession where there is a lot of backbiting and competition) and have their back, but first they have to get over their fear! hahaha.
Your friend sounds deep and very empathetic – I don’t think of empathy as always being ‘nice’ – it’s not the same as compassion. I think of it as being attuned to other people’s feelings, good or bad, of being able to read them.
My friend has never given me an ST but I can tell when she is distancing herself and it is always because I am not giving her enough fuel. As soon as I ask her what’s up, how she is and am ready to listen, we’re back on, but of course it is never really reciprocated. She talks ALL the time – silence is deadly rather than golden. Still, she has good qualities and since I don’t have to live with her or work with her or really depend on her for anything, I can just have fun with her when I am in the mood. I think she is my only narc friend!
I kind of compartmentalize my friends – they reflect different sides of me, as I am sure is the case for all of us. I do certain things with this one, and other things with that one, etc. I might be in the mood for one and not for another. I know which ones not to mix. The ones I enjoy being around the most are a bit ditzy, though I am not.
Friends are interesting and it’s a bit strange that we do not talk about them more since they say a lot about a person, especially about female empaths, right?
You have a really good & generous heart, SMH — you strike me as being pretty guarded at first…or guarded at times, depending on the situation, which is often about being discerning/analytical/making a judgment call based on experience. I understand that very well. In one way, I’m open and friendly – but I’m also appropriately guarded. I take in & reflect about a lot…but ultimately, how much/when I’m guarded is a very intuitive (gut) decision for me. I often make those kinds of decisions in-the-moment, and it’s a very overwhelming feeling I get that it’s best to hold back/wait. For me, trust has to be built, step-by-step. I don’t rush it, and I’ve never been sorry about that.
It IS a little strange that we don’t talk about the friends aspect on here more. I guess it’s because it’s the romantic entanglement that brought a lot of us here (or work people…well, yah — this may mean a lot of us empaths have chosen our friends wisely!)…
I think I’ve got about a half/half split (normal & empaths) in my “good friends” circle. The one person who I can’t make heads nor tails of is my high school boyfriend, who I consider a friend & stay in touch with…he’s really a mystery. Looking back on when I dated him, I see him more as an Empath…fast-forward some years, to today, and I had seen him more like a normal, until he started saying some stuff in the past 3-4 months that has made me think he may actually be a (gulp!) MMR…and I feel pretty darn bad for even thinking it. 😳
Anyway, one thing I really like about this site is there’s always more to reflect on/learn, and I enjoy hearing everyone’s thoughts & going in all different directions of reflecting. It’s interesting, and you really can use it out in RL…whether being more aware/applying concepts…or just broadening your views/being mindful of where people may be at/where you can be more understanding & helpful.
Thank you, CIF. I am actually way too trusting, which is how the thing with MRN happened. But thankfully he did not make me stop trusting people – or I am finding that distrust was just a phase/part of my recovery. I still believe that most people are trustworthy and treat them accordingly until they show me otherwise. So maybe the opposite of how you go about your interactions. It’s really my on/off switch that is the problem but maybe that is because I don’t take the time, as you do, to get to know people before I get involved.
I am not sure what a ‘normal’ is but I don’t think there are many among my friends as I tend to be attracted to extremes (find them more interesting). I am guessing that a lot of us have past narcs in our lives that we did not recognize at the time – like your HS bf (my first bf died, sadly). I only realized my exH and mother were both narcs after coming on here, for instance – and I have also found that one of the most valuable things about this blog is the ability to use what we learn irl and to be more self-aware. It has also made me think about how much of my behavior is due to being an empath (presumably – I have not been assessed) and how much is due to having middle child syndrome. Lots to figure out still!
I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. I see from one of your comments that you are offline for the weekend. Enjoy your break!
Correct, at first it was somewhat consuming trying to determine what about who… I have people in my life I have suspicions of—I am not marrying them, officially dating, spending too much time, etc. I’m also not qualified to diagnose but I’m qualified not to tolerate bullshit for sure. My friend is a blast and we see one another maybe annually. So what. It’s not so scary after all. I’m sure there are people my ex husband charms the pants off. Good for him and good for them.
I love the comment about compartmentalizing friends! I have quite a crew within my circle. My favorite people mingle best with everyone. Interestingly, it is often the narcissist friend that makes people feel special and welcome—it’s not always those who don’t hit the narc meter. I have friends that are likely empaths that don’t need attention the same way a narcissist does and maybe that is why there is an aloof quality. Empaths have social barriers and aren’t altruistic enough to not have an elevated sense of themselves mingling with various people. I was very confused about the empath thing—I thought “Who the F is catering to everyone and just loving all people all the time.”
Lorelei, Same here! My narc friend is an excellent hostess and never ostracizes anyone! Part of it is likely because she needs the attention. I find that she is guarded in some ways – very few people really really know her because she maintains the facade – but she has such an interesting life and is so good at being welcoming that she never lacks for company even though on some level she is lonely. I see now that it is largely due to her fuel needs. I am kind of opposite to her – I don’t need fuel and so my tolerance for other people is lower and I am more discerning about who I spend time with.
Good observations SMH. The jig is up. I’ll never tolerate poor behavior again—ever. I’m working on some finesse in this regard but I think nailing it will come in time. We can’t totally avoid narcissists—it’s unrealistic and there will be engagements etc. Where my danger zone is rests with romantic entanglements and in the work place. This is my focus.
Lorelei, I seem to have them everywhere – family, romantic relationships, friendships and work. Best to learn how to manage because I can’t or don’t want to escape most of them.
I’m so glad you said all of this SMH. I feel like there is this almost “eerie” stay away from all narcissists kinda thing which is wise of course—but there are several relationships I have that are not an issue. Will they be? I don’t know but they aren’t work or romantic in nature. One of my closest friends died some years back—my memory is so fond. We had a lovely relationship and you see—this notion that narcissists are always unseemly is a bit dramatic. They are often problematic absolutely. But does this mean that we simply just shut down every relationship in the crusade against narcissists as a whole? This is partly why I was amused by being branded a dangerous narcissist. Uh—ok, well get the crucifix out right! Who flipping would be impacted on a blog at the end of the day—skip over and don’t read. Duh. I’m just worn out over always worrying who is what. Sometimes you just go with the flow and shut down conduits of mistreatment as they arise. I can recognize a lot of red flags and stay a distance away certainly, but being on high narcissist alert 24/7 is just not reasonable. My cousin texted me a few days ago. She’s a bitch—guess what—zero reply from me. It’s that simple. She can F off and it doesn’t matter what she is. My friend “Sal” has treated me like gold for twenty years. Is he a narcissist? Highly likely. I’ll text him back. If there is behavior I find unacceptable he can F off. My ET isn’t where I want it but my approach to poor behavior is one of zero tolerance. I also firmly believe I’ll see more and more absolutes and know who is what, but I’m not there yet and I’m ok with where I am.
Lorelei, I agree. Plenty of empaths and normals are annoying and plenty of narcs are entertaining, as long as one is not too emotionally invested in them and they are not serial killers!
I don’t think there are many serial killers fortunately!
Lorelei, No there aren’t but I did tell MRN he could have been a serial killer in another life!
SMH—did you ever figure out how to use gift cards because I can’t and it’s messing up my life?!
Lorelei, I did not. I couldn’t find a differently branded card so in the end I gave up and used my own credit card. HG now knows my name but I worried for nothing – it doesn’t bother me at all because I realized that I haven’t done anything other than tell my story and every word I write is true.
My red-flag-o-meter is going off the charts.
I can’t shake the feeling that there is something much more sinister going on here, than what appears on the surface.
I have thought about it all as it’s been going on and I keep coming back to one important thing; everything was fine and then it wasn’t. Only one thing happened here that changed the current.
So to me, the one that changed things is the one with an intent. And if I’ve learned anything here, it’s that we have to listen to our intuition.
My intuition says that you Julie, have come along with much motivation and an intense interest in someone else.
I don’t need to think of any of the possible reason as to why you’ve chosen that action. I have learned not to buy any more tickets to go on merry-go-rounds.
I see cold, detached and argumentative behaviour.
It’s irrelevant how calm your comments are presented. The content within them speaks volumes.
I’m disappointed in myself for not saying anything sooner. I don’t really know my place here and I don’t enjoy conflict. I don’t enjoy bullying either. And that’s all I can see.
Pointless and irrelevant bullying.
I’m reminded of what led me to this safe site in the first place.
Lorelei, we’ve never spoken, but I’m so sorry that you’ve had to experience this passive aggressive landmine wrapped in calm and collected poison. I’m so sorry that I stayed quiet in the background. Sometimes we learn more by observing than participating and I’m ashamed that I didn’t speak up sooner. I hope that you’re ok.
But Lorelei, do you get a feeling that there is much more to this than meets the eye? Please remember why we’re here and what else is here. It might be in your interest to really think about this very odd situation as there may be more than one way to view it.
If anyone is offended by my comment, then I will apologise now in advance. I don’t want to upset anyone and if I have, please know that I don’t mean to.
But there is a way to talk to people that has not been displayed here. And that’s what’s wrong with the world. People hurt others and palm it off as ok. It’s not ok.
Hey STBS,
I’m with you. This does have a very sinister feel and for me is so reminiscent of the toxic situation that I am trying to escape. Reading/watching bullying, gaslighting and manipulation isn’t my idea of fun or learning.
I was coming to this site to help reduce my ET, now I have to pick and choose whose comments I’ll read as I look for articles and comments that include the information and insight that I’ve found so useful. I’ve mostly decamped to youtube to listen to HG. I had anxiety about listening to/engaging with a narcissist in order to escape one (or stay escaped anyway), but you are right, it did feel safe here, when others around me can’t understand because it’s unbelievable. N-ex is a fucking amateur compared to some of the stuff I’ve read on this thread. I’m sure some people are enjoying it, learning from it etc. And that’s great. Perhaps it’s all too raw for me just yet. I’m glad that when I first came here a few weeks ago, that I didn’t see any of the pissing contests that abound currently, I’d have quickly exited. I feel sad for anyone who has stumbled in here fresh over the past few days as I’m sure they wouldn’t have had the same experience that I did when at a very low point and looking for answers. Reading HG’s articles helped me but not as much as the comments from people who seemed to understand from my perspective rather than his. HGs comments were brusque on occasion but not cruel and devaluing, that I saw anyway.
Anyway STBS, I hope you’re shining brightly very very soon. And to all the other commenters who helped me with their comments, insight and humour, many thanks. Bye for now x
Hello Sparkling and NotMe! I agree with you both and I want to apologize to you both (and anyone who shares your feelings) for my part in this thread. I grew up with two narcissists who projected, lied, manipulated, gaslighted, gave silent treatments, blamed, shamed and maligned with regularity, superiority and zero conscience. As result, I learned to stick up for others, and myself when warranted, when I see another being maligned or feel maligned under the same circumstances. That is what I perceived in this thread. But after reading your comments, I am rethinking my own participation. I don’t think I helped anyone, except perhaps to let those know, whose empathy I feel, that I see and support them. Regardless, HG has said repeatedly when you know, you go. I saw and knew, but kept reading and commenting on occasion. I failed. I take responsibility for that and sincerely apologize. I will not travel these roads again. Thank you for your comments. They were very insightful, helpful and balanced. I hope no new person was turned away by this sad thread exchange. I feel awful if that is true, because I know how much HG’s life-changing assistance has helped me. I wish you the best in your ongoing recovery.
Speaking up and offering empathy is a valued contribution in my view
Thank you, Woke, mine too, but if it in any way prevented someone from getting help I would feel awful. I appreciate your kindness.
Hi Notme,
Like you, I experienced high ET as I read through it. It triggered me over and over again.
I’ve always been taught that I’m wrong and I had lost faith in my own self. But with healing, (spurred and nurtured by coming here) I have learned to believe what I feel and listen to that warning voice.
I’m not worried to read the comments, as like you said, many of them are just so helpful (and some are fun too, which I personally love). But now, I do have to second guess myself about what I post. When triggered, I tend to just pour it all out and maybe part of my learning is to be quieter (not easy for me 😉).
Hopefully any new people that find their way here, don’t notice this thread!
I’m shining again ☀️, almost back to bursting and I’ve noticed that I’m attracting happiness all around me again, so I know that I’ve come through all this.
Thankyou just so much for the warm wishes and to you, I wish the the same. I hope going forward that you find peace from your situation and endlessly happiness 🤗!
I hope I see you around again (not from another entanglement), but if not, take good care of you luv! Xoxo
Soon to be sparkling!
I agree; I hope new people don’t notice this thread either. Sorry about the clash of personalities.
Hi K 🤗
Please, no apologies needed.
People have personality clashes all the time. We’re all different so of course, we all view things differently, so of course we all get triggered by different things and act accordingly.
You helped me so much at my lowest stage (while I was trying to be so strong and brave) that if I could wrap my arms around you and hug you to bits, I surely would!
Haha! Let’s hope newcomers still have their rose tinted glasses on and only see all the awesome articles and all the wonderful comments.
He should change the name of the thread to “Move along..nothing to see here folks!”
Thank you Soon to be sparkling!
Awwww….I am so glad that I was able to help you when you were at your lowest stage. Many of us come here with broken hearts and broken spirits looking for answers, comfort and understanding. You are strong and brave, after all, you made it here and your journey will continue to get exponentially better for you and, if I could, I would hug you to bits, too!
Ha ha ha….from time to time, we have a Clash of the Titans, which is understandable, as you pointed out. Let’s just hope the newcomers aren’t turned off enough to exit-stage-left.
If you don’t mind, I am going to name this thread: “Move along..nothing to see here folks!”
You’re welcome K 🤗
Thankyou too for your lovely comments!
I hope no one leaves either.
I can’t imagine that many newcomers would leave though, because when they finally make their way here, they are suffering intense pain and are 100% focused on every single bit of information they can get. Their minds are so fixated on the shock of what’s happened to them, that any of the clashes they see in comments couldn’t possibly compare to the clash they are so desperate to finally learn about.
Here’s hoping!
My pleasure Soon to be sparkling!
I think you may be right. The sheer madness of NPD abuse is so traumatic that this thread may pale in comparison to the real life horror that some of the newcomers have experienced.
There’s always hope!
NotMe!
Narcsite is a safe place to learn so, please, don’t let the pissing contest change that. I am very sorry it turned out the way it did on this thread.
K—in reply to how dark NPD abuse can be compared to this thread.. Guess what?! It’s not abuse to me anymore nor does it need to be for anyone. Why? After HG’s university IT IS as apparent as the stupidity as a damn goat in a petting zoo. That’s how rudimentary (Absolute basic) the machinations are. There is a healthy way to inquire about someone’s behavior and there is another way. Period. That’s why I was irked at first toward HG—a knee jerk “ what the heck—is he blind?” thought. I doubt it quite seriously. He doesn’t need to reply on this thread— it speaks volumes and is perfect in its own way. **An ill intended person can’t “hurt” me anymore. It is because they’ve lost the thrust—it’s been removed from the capacity to “pack a punch.”
Lorelei
Once you recognize the manipulations then you realize what you are dealing with and there’s no need to continue to engage or argue anymore. Apply The Golden Rule of Freedom – No.1. There was a lot of discord and drama on this thread over harmless banter, which speaks volumes about those involved. They are irrelevant; just ignore them. According to the rules, it’s my understanding that HG does not involve himself in disputes.
Word of the day: skulduggery.
Rule 7. Contrary to belief I have no interest in people falling out with one another. It is not involving me so therefore I am interested in it.
https://narcsite.com/2018/09/11/the-golden-rules-of-freedom-no-1-3/
Shall I engage in some skulduggery?! What a lovely word! I did go super nova on my kids for being messy today. Isn’t that where you get WAY pissed and go bananas? I was snatching electronics, looking like a crazy person, etc. I was not elegant but the messes got cleaned up!
The manipulations are becoming clearer each day. Not only narcissists.. Any behavior that contradicts my sense of freedom is getting shut down—no matter what. I invite others to do the same—if you don’t like what I post move on.
It’s a silly notion that there is any flirting either—I consulted with HG quite a bit to manage my divorce and of course a sense of familiarity is prompted. It’s ridiculous from my perspective, although I can see where an outside observer could misinterpret not knowing the facts. Absolutely yet however—is such a notion worthy of generating a post with over 1000 comments and an assertion that I am a dangerous manipulative person? Wouldn’t that compel me to banter endlessly to pursue fuel if I were a narcissist? If anyone is truly reading it is astonishing that this simple fact would be overlooked. There was no tail tucked due to wounding because wounding wouldn’t be the narcissist “go to” when challenge fuel is issued. I’m quite open about my foibles as I see them and always seek to perfect upon these issues. Maybe I have more than some to clean up, and I certainly have less than some others. I have an entire exciting path mapped out for the coming year to put my energy into—I’m happy about it. I’m starting a terminal degree program, pursuing several certifications, teaching, traveling… I have my entire life ahead and it will be excellent and free from the overbearing influence of those that are toxic.
Lorelei
Ha ha ha…there was enough skulduggery and monkey business on this thread for all of us! I don’t mind what you post and I will continue to read your comments. I have not perceived any flirting at all and, even if you were flirting, it would not bother me at all. Flirting or teasing is harmless and very normal. You are not a dangerous or manipulative person, from my POV, and the banter brings much needed levity to a serious subject matter. I think you should just carry on and ignore the noise around.
Word of the day: Bumfuzzled. I was bumfuzzled by all the ballyhoo on this thread.
Ballyhoo is fun. I’m too tired to manipulate anyone.
Lorelei
Well that’s good because you’re shit at manipulation lol. Enjoy the beach.
Thank you. Sometimes I can plot out a plan that benefits me and it seems manipulative in that the variables were indeed manipulated strategically, but it’s different than the under-handed sort.
Yes soon to be—it is unusual for this brand of emphasis to be intense toward someone a person has had no dialogue with. Not impossible certainly. Unusual. Again—I won’t be overly implying my thoughts because too much of that has transpired here. My thoughts are irrelevant anyway—each person deserves their own take away and hopefully it illustrates something beneficial for each reader. I know it’s been immensely helpful for me—both on a self reflective level and a good reminder of things better left unsaid.
It’s certainly an eye opener, Lorelei.
For what it’s worth, you always gave me a bit of a giggle, which was the last thing I ever expected to find here. I’m sure many others enjoyed your playful banter too. Talk about a shining light!
I didn’t see someone coming back here due to another entrapment.
I didn’t see someone coming back here in need of support, due to a relapse.
I didn’t see someone coming back here as healed and now able to help others.
I saw a direct bee-line for one person with absolute intent.
In a way, it is a big lesson to us all and how did we ever forget; everything we say, can and will be used against us!
I hope you don’t change. We have every right to be ourselves and it will always irk unhappy people. That’s their problem though. Certainly not ours.
Things left unsaid can be hard for our personality types (for me anyway!)”.
Anyway, we can’t change the world
Just saw this soon to be! I’m glad I’ve made you giggle!
Soon to be Sparkling:
Please don’t apologize for speaking the truth… and doing so articulately.
I’m new here too and I agree with your observations 100%. We see what we
What a way to be introduced to people!
Hi nightstandsecrets,
Thankyou 🤗 and welcome!
It’s nice to meet you, but I’m sorry for the circumstances that made you find your way here.
I’m new too (I think? Er..new-ish).
Honestly, this place is an absolute gold mine for helpful information and to know that we’re not alone and that we’re not crazy.
We do see what we see! Our vantage point may have been shaded previously (obviously), but we have to learn to have faith in ourselves, regardless of other people’s opinions or manipulations.
Most of the regular readers here don’t know me yet, since I never introduced myself as I should have.
I am on this blog for 1,5 years (june 2018) but limited my interactions to asking questions to Mr Tudor and reading. Very rare did I interact with the readers.
But I did read the comments so I got to know the regular commentors.
I was on the ED thread when things got heated and could not believe my eyes (only reading).
I was also on the audio thread so I know what happened there (only reading).
I was also on this thread when the bomb was dropped.
This thread has hurt me so deeply, I could not understand why everybody was seeing red flags in so many people and I kept trying so hard and pushing myself to the limit, directing myself: comon: read read read, learn, apply, see it. SEE IT.
Just as Windstorm and Kim e and some others described it: this lived in my body for several days…
I felt heartbroken and bewilderd. Total chaos.
It certainly did me feel very reluctant to comment or interact ever again. Because I know I am not strong enough to face this storm if this happens to me.
And contrary to N: I hate attention!
So to introduce myself in short: I live in Belgium, not married, no children, divorced 15 years ago (yes, 15 years single! Imagine that!), we speak Dutch so English doesn’t come naturally for me, I live with my cats and besides my job I have a dance company, so my time is limited.
My name ‘zwartbolleke’ is from my (passed away) cat, it means: Black Sweetheart, she was the most beautiful pure black cat, her coat always gleaming, died this summer young age of kidney disease 🙁
I have in common with you all my interest in this subject of narcissism, and studying very hard.
Zwartbolleke
Welcome! I’m not really here much anymore, but I am following this thread. I understand what you’ve said very well. I, too followed the blog over a year before I commented. And also this thread has been painful for me to read. I did spend 5 hours reading all 1100+ comments, though, in order to better understand what was going on. I, too, will do painful things in order to learn.
My own personal philosophy is never to say anything hurtful to another to further my own understanding. And that’s probably primarily because other people’s pain hurts me – sometimes even more than it hurts them. I sense you may find this somewhat true as well.
I am sorry for the loss of your cat. I have a solid white cat named Raoul. He is 14 now and in poor health. I fear this winter may be his last. Unfortunately that’s the way of animals. We just have to let them go, move on and share our love and lives with new animals.
I hate attention also and find withstanding negative comments and insinuations very difficult, too. I am a very reclusive and solitary person because of this. But that is how I have been made and I can only assume it was for a purpose. We all of us have to live within the limits of our natures and not let them prevent us from achieving our goals. Don’t let other people’s differences make you feel badly about yourself. I routinely commented here for years and had primarily good experiences. If you are respectful of others, I have found that they will usually be respectful in return. Don’t be afraid to add your insights to the blog!
I am glad you commented and that I saw it. Learning that another kindred spirit is out there has brightened my evening. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope to hear from you again. ❤️
Hello windstorm
Good to see you and Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Happy Thanksgiving to u too!
Thank you Windstorm 💛💛, that is so very kind, and thank you for taking the time to comfort me!
Yes I can relate to the things you say, I don’t have to explain that because I know you feel that!
Nice meeting you, x
Zwartbolleke
😊
Hallo Zwartbolleke, je bent een goede ziel. Het spijt me zo te horen over de dood van je mooie zwarte kat. Ik hou zielsveel van mijn huisdieren en leef mee met je pijn. Vergeef alle opmerkingen die ik heb gemaakt die op u van invloed kunnen zijn. Ik ben ook gevoelig, maar ik zwijg niet als anderen valse beledigingen doen. Die draad maakt me nog steeds van streek. Bedankt dat je naar voren bent gekomen en jezelf hebt voorgesteld. Je wordt gewaardeerd.
Hope that translation is readable and mostly accurate. Take care.
I felt like I was flying KLM again, FYC!
Lol, HG, I love your humor. I don’t speak Dutch, but since she does, I thought I’d make a quick effort to translate as she does for us.
Your Dutch was good, certainly not double.
Haha thank you.
zwartbolleke
Sorry about the chaos, sometimes, the clash of personalities can get very heated. I hope you continue to read and comment irrespective of the clash.
zwartbolleke. Hi. I read a lot also without commenting. Some days I ignore it completely. Some days I need contact with others that understand. The thread from hell as I call it was a very rare occurrence. As I really was overwhelmed with it I ignored it. Go with your feelings for the moment. Just remember we are here for each other whether you need to laugh yell rant or cry.
Hi zwartbolleke,
I’m so sorry that you lost your kitty.
It’s lovely that you picked a name based on her. ❤️
Well, it’s lovely to meet you!
The thread was very upsetting. Please don’t let it get to you though.
Afterall, it takes all sorts to make the world go round.
I kept seeing other thread names being mentioned, but I’m choosing not to bother reading them. Past is past and whatever happened, happened.
Have you been affected by Narcissism personally or do you find the topic fascinating?
Dear K
“Sorry about the chaos, sometimes, the clash of personalities can get very heated. I hope you continue to read and comment irrespective of the clash.”
K,
If you ever find me contradicting myself, I invite you to show me how en where I have contradicted myself so I can admit my mistake (or explain, if possible). I have no intention at all to contradict myself. Please understand also that I have to translate the info I read and then if I react I have to translate my words again, so misunderstandings and interpretation errors are very likely to occur. But I will not often poste an opinion myself, since I know I am not strong enough to cope with all the reactions.
I will however try to be more interactive. In my own (soft) way 🙂
zwartbolleke
You are doing fine with the translation and your empathic traits of truth seeking and decency have presented. Here’s some reciprocity, if you see me make a contradiction, please, feel free to point it out so I can correct, or clarify, myself, as well (empathic traits of fairness and decency). This thread isn’t typical so interact as often as you are comfortable doing so. Most people are open-minded (trait of fairness) on narcsite and are tolerant of other’s opinions.
Kim e
“zwartbolleke. Hi. I read a lot also without commenting. Some days I ignore it completely. Some days I need contact with others that understand. The thread from hell as I call it was a very rare occurrence. As I really was overwhelmed with it I ignored it. Go with your feelings for the moment. Just remember we are here for each other whether you need to laugh yell rant or cry.”
Thank you very much Kim e for your kind words!
Nice meeting you!
FYC
“Hope that translation is readable and mostly accurate. Take care.”
Dear FYC
Thank you so much for your kind reply, I am impressed by your effort to write me in Dutch! That is such a nice gesture!
Nice meeting you 🙂
STBS
“Have you been affected by Narcissism personally or do you find the topic fascinating?”
Dear STBS,
Thank you for your kind words.
Nice meeting you too!
Yes N all over in my life, in family, colleagues, friends, romantic, and also, I am a dance teacher, there are a lot of N attracted to the stage, craving for attention, which is a problem for my other students who are often vulnerable women with a loaded past (is that correct English?), who are genuinely seeking to love their body’s again after abuse of all kind (I teach Burlesque, so we work around bodypositivity and selflove).
I study and then I study some more about narcissism, it’s a confusing time, to say the least!
I read your story on the sex thread some weeks ago, I have had the same problem (10 years ago already), that is not good, I hope you can get it out your head. Do your very best, because you really want it 🙂
We will read one another again for sure on other threads!
Oops! I pressed send instead of backspace! (Have I mentioned that I hate the WordPress app? I HATE the WordPress app). Seriously! Sometimes I’m halfway through a post and I have to do some chore, so I delete my post, with the intention to reply later. I come back to it, address it from a different angle or from wherever my frame of mind has drifted to and then I realise that both replies were uploaded! Hahaha and also..Grrrrrrrr!!
Anyway!
There is not normally (from what I’ve seen) any unkindness here and I was shocked to see it. Having said that…we are in an unusual place so I suppose it’s bound to attract conflict at times. Empaths can fight for justice like I’ve never seen and narcs, well…they just fight, haha, so in hindsight, I guess I’m shocked there isn’t more trouble.
I hope your not put off (though understandable, if you are) as this place changed everything for me. I was so lost, uttetly crushed and hanging on by a thread and now I’ve bounced back with narc-vision and it’s a blessing. I don’t take unpleasant behaviour in my personal life anymore and I can say no now. I learned to trust myself regardless of what other people think about that and I’ve learned to pull back from people instead of putting up with hurtful situations. I have never been able to walk away from problematic people until now. I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, but I’m indebted and grateful for having somewhere to go. I’m happy here and every single day, I read something new that I can relate to. It was a lonely road until I found my way here.
The helpful comments from the visitors and the advice from the moderator is all very hands on and it’s honestly priceless.
I hope you stay and I hope you find the comfort and assistance that you need here.
It’s a good place and you’re not alone anymore!
Xoxo
STBS and others newer to the blog
Please do not let what you read here discourage you from participating on the blog. It is not a common occurrence and you are in the very best place to get the information you need. There are many personalities here with different backgrounds and in different stages of their entanglement, and I promise you the majority are kind, intelligent, and supportive, so don’t be afraid to interact. The more you read, the more you will understand and be able to apply that knowledge to not only your situation, but to better understand both narcissists and empaths and how/why this type of thing can occur (again – it is NOT common). So read the articles, read the books, watch the videos, and consult with HG. And PLEASE interact with others – it will enrich your experience here and we want to learn from you as well. It is a safe, fun, and unrivalled learning environment.
Hi NarcAngel,
I just couldn’t agree with you more!
Almost everything I have seen here encourages me to think clearer, try harder and be brighter.
It’s an amazing forum and the information and the participation here is wonderful!
We are definitely all at different stages of recovery and growth and it’s actually good to see that even so, everyone still comes together in a 99% positive way!
There will be disagreements and opposing views, as there should be really. We each come from our own situation that affects us all in different ways. We don’t follow the leader here. We learn and think for ourselves and say what is absolutely right from our own hearts and experiences.
I consider myself extraordinarily lucky to have found this place and I sure hope many others come along!
I’m at the ‘wtf was I thinking stage’ and I’m moving to the ‘time to help others” stage and frankly, I wouldn’t be as happy as I am again without all you lovely souls and our patient host!
Thank f*ck for everything here! It feels like a home away from home.
Oh hey Sparkles (may I call you “Sparkles”? I think it’s ’bout the cutest nickname evah!)
Anyway, I forgot to say, “nice to meet you” so I’m doing that now.
It’s actually been nice to “meet” several people on here.
There are a few that… meh… the jury is still out. 😁
Anyhow, yeah, it’s been enlightening to read the blog posts and some of the comments people have shared.
I hope to see ya around 👍
nightstandsecrets
Welcome to the blog! Sorry about the kerfuffle; it’s a terrible way to introduce people.
Thank you, lisk.
I second your opinion about the ED:)
“Either way, I would question/assess the result, as I question/assess everything, and utilize it accordingly. Questioning and assessing for myself in no way is meant to diminish the Detector or HG. “
I noticed this morning ( I am in a different time zone ) that some so called EmpathS made very unpleasant comments about your posts.
I like your posts and I do hope those comments won’t discourage you to express your views.
Empaths are not saints. Empathy can be reduced owing to external stressors, so empaths make mistakes, do bad things etc.
Thank you for the clarification, HG! I really appreciate how you correct my ET in a calm, elegant and helpful manner.
I admire your astonishing ability to restore the balance on this comment tread using the logic and facts.
I can only learn from you like one can learn from a good mentor.
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement, Claire.
I likewise appreciate your posts!
HG, what say you? Are you still there?
He’s gone AWOL. Can’t say I blame him. Ping me when the conversation goes back to sex.
Bahahahaha.
I Wanted to say that your “clown shoes “comment had me laugh out loud and I will be using that in the future
Haha. Thanks, Woke. I stole it from someone else, so feel free to pass it on.
Of course HG is still here.
I’ll take a stab at what HG could say:
“Julie, and all the rest, if you think you see a narcissist (whether or not I have determined one as such), GOSO.”
Hi WokeAF,
Regarding your question “But who are you to say? It’s HG’s blog. “ I am going to try keeping my answer short :
I am a reader who openly express my opinion online in the same manner as offline , IRL.
The nerd mentality doesn’t align with my moral values. Hence if I disagree with some opinions on this blog I am not afraid to express my disagreement.
This is HG’ s blog, that’s right and I welcome the opportunity that we can voice our thoughts here.
I stand behind my initial post and I am aware that not everybody will agree with my opinion.That’s OK and it is normal.
I was the one who doubted some results of the ED after observing some behaviours here .
„Cogito ergo sum“
Hi NA,
“Did you all miss the comment where I noted that he would not interact with the same regularity and in the same way with Lorelei aa he does with the narcissists who fly in? “
I believe that HG teases Lorelei either for some quick fix low grade tertiary sourced fuel either for his entertainment.
That’s is not enough for me to consider that Lorelei is an empath either.
I didn’t witnesses enough of his interactions with narcissists in this blog , therefore I cannot comment further.
I agree that we are all guests in HG’s House however when some guests are crossing the boundaries , other guests have the right do not cheer them up but to disagree with their behaviour.
Yes we can leave the blog if we don’t like the rules . However just because some individuals have longer tenures on the blog the fact doesn’t give them any kind of superiority over the newer readers or commenters.
Claire
I agree that we can all offer opinion, but that is hardly all that happened here. It went from opinion, accusation, and on to how the blog should be run. I also agree that tenure means nothing. Julie P has been around a long time but rarely comments and yet she displayed what many thought was superiority. No one here is more superior to another (except HG will tell you he is) and yes, I include myself.
MP: I appreciate your authenticity & dedication in not abandoning your inner voice, as well as your compassion and sense of justice & fairness.
Kel: I appreciate your courage.
Lisk: I appreciate your inner strength & discernment.
Julie: I appreciate your calm voice & the simple truths you feel led to speak, as I have a serious narcissistic issue on my hands, & a few things you said made me realize I am blurring lines/being prideful about my ability to handle dangerous people & putting myself in unnecessary danger.
Caroline is fine, I miss you!!! Thank you so much for your courage as well. You’re always there for me! If you’re still up to the film analysis I am now game for it. Was it Far From the Madding Crowd.
MP,
I’ve only been on one thread, ever since you left. Like a “sit in” — but a “thread-in” – Lol…Dang, who knew that would actually work & you’d come back??? 🤗🤸♀️
Not gonna lie~going on the film thread would be a fantastic stress reliever (I can’t even talk about my narc situ right now/I’m both drained & trying to stay calm).
Take your time on watching the movie, but yep, that’s the right one (I watched the 2017 release). 🙂Sounds fun, thanks so much.❤Catch ya at the movies…I’m not subscribed yet to that thread, so please send me word (or link?), whenever you’re all set.🤸♀️
Hi Caroline is fine, I’m sorry about your situation. I think that we should definitely do the stress reliever. I will write more later. I will find you in a different thread!
Sounds good, MP~I look forward to it.❤ BTW, in case you read that other post to lisk, the glimmer of “hope” I still have for my nex has nothing to do with being involved with him in any capacity, just in case you think you’ve been away so long that I’ve completely lost it…it’s much better than that — he’s stalking me (home turf), & I’m thinking maybe I can save his soul — Isn’t that so much better?😂…No, not correct on the saving soul part, but it’s a philosophical thing, for later…but next up, fun & frivolity! THE MOVIES🍿 Let fictional characters take a narc hit for a change, lol
Caroline is fine, I don’t think that you would ever lose it. Your situation is challenging given the tenacity of the narcissist you are avoiding. I have never experienced that and wouldn’t know how I would deal with it. You handle yourself so well and doesn’t lose your cool. You have very high logical thinking and you know what is right for you. The idea of saving his soul without being involved with him is a great sign that you are not under his power because you don’t hate him and you are back to being your true empathic self and you feel free to recognize your love for him as a fellow human being and nothing more. He is also a child of God after all.
I will get ready for our movie discussion. I will try to watch it this week although I don’t know when yet because Thanksgiving is coming. I will comment to you in the Overwhelming Angel thread when I post at the film thread. Much love to you!!! 😘😘😘
MP,❤
The notifications on this page (and others, it seems) are so messed up, lol…I just now got the comment you posted here to me on Nov. 25, about you sensing I still having calm, cool logic, while maintaining my empathy, as pertains to my nex. I humbly feel that is true, and I posted over on the “Overwhelming Angel” today about what I’m reflecting upon, in this regard. But thank you, for having faith in me – in believing I can apply what I have learned but also be fully who I am meant to be, and maybe make a difference, with & in that…not fix anything…but think higher, for something that would normally be out of my reach. I feel strong, calm, grounded & at peace, with whatever is next on my journey.💛
P.S. There was no way to reply to your comment directly, so who knows where this will end up? 🥴 For anyone I’m not responding to on my other 1 or 2 main threads I’m on, my apologies…I’m just not currently getting all comments/notifications to my inbox.
Caroline-is-fine,
I appreciate your acknowledgment and support of Julie, Kel, MP and me. I would add Claire to that list . . . and there may be more, too, some of whom are not posting words because, well, they see what can happen when they do (or maybe they just have fuller lives than I do at the moment!).
I hope you are able to untangle yourself from your serious narcissistic situation and to do so quickly.
I have no idea about the details of your situation. However, if it is of any use to you, I will share a recent experience I had regarding my own pridefulness and how I allowed ET to suck me into a dangerous situation.
I had a serious narcissistic issue on my own hands (non-romantic, work-related) over the past few months. I thought I could handle a particularly dangerous narcissist who was entrenched in our organization. Referencing the knowledge that I acquired from HG, I knew exactly what she was doing at all times. I even purchased HG’s “How to Handle the Narcissist at Work” when I sensed the start of the devaluation (yes, there was a Golden Period and I knew I was in it).
Unfortunately, I allowed pride and ET to take over at one point and allowed it to override HG’s sound advice (which I only listened to once without taking notes) and I nearly buried myself because of it.
As I mentioned, the narcissist was entrenched there. People knew she was a narcissist. HR has been trying to get rid of her. HR could not and cannot do anything about her–people will complain to HR, but when it comes for confidential interviews that could lead to an investigation, people back out.
Fortunately, after my posting a comment here on KTN about “the female narcissist at work” and offering my own personal advice on how to handle her and having that comment corrected by HG (“Wrong. You GOSO.” is essentially what he said–not exact quote here), I snapped out of my pride. I wanted to “beat” a narcissist and it was becoming quite clear to me that I would either lose or that I would spend way too much energy trying to “win.” I made a quick move, and I got out. I was lucky. I was able to get out of one job and into a new job in less than a week.
All of this to say to you, Caroline, that, especially because you recognize your pridefulness, you are in a very good position to get yourself out of unnecessary danger.
Thank you, lisk. It’s very giving of you to share that with me, especially in the midst of the angst of this thread, which I know affects you. It reminds me of this dear lady I encountered recently. I don’t normally cry in front of people, so when I had this moment of being overcome in a public place & felt myself choking up, I felt trapped. There was no place to go, so I moved as far away from everyone as I possibly could and just shielded my hand over my eyes, but I had this awful sound coming out of me, like strangled sobs…ugh, embarrassing.
This Mom came over to me. She was juggling her baby on her hip…a toddler was pulling the bottom of her purse, and an older child kept asking her for something, over & over. She said to me so gently, “Are you okay, sweetie? Can I help you?” — as she’s finger-flicking away one kid – shushing another – and juggling her baby back to the other hip – and then she said, “Let me get you a Kleenex, can you grab my purse?…Sorry…How many damn kids do I HAVE?!” I looked at her & started laughing, which made her laugh too, so there we were, like 2 junior high girls, with a fit of the giggles at a sleepover…She was such an earthly angel, and such a neat thing came out of that. Anyway, people who take a minute to give grace to others, no matter what they’re caught up in…it’s touching.❤
Yes, I’ve made a mistake, in thinking my inner peace was some indicator that I could “manage” my nex. “No, Caroline – just because you feel good on the inside doesn’t mean there’s not a tornado tearing through your environment that will eventually make impact…like get the F out of there!” Lol…
I’ll be okay. I’m changing part of my perspective, which is what is in order. But I still have a form of hope, and I think talking to MP about this sometime could benefit me, as I need more clarity (poor MP is now like, “What? What is it I am doing?”😂)
Anyway, thanks again, lisk. I’m not someone who needs a ton of support – but I do need an angel or two once in awhile, with a light & kind touch, which I can sometimes forget…so that I can be encouraged to keep going where it is that I know I need to go…and I’m blessed in receiving that.❤
Now I’ll get off this thread. If anyone needs me, do come find me. May the pure of heart not lose heart…good things can come from struggles, of all sorts. I would know!😉
Caroline-is-fine,
I appreciate your willingness to empathize. However, I am actually getting a lot out of this thread. Please note that you may be projecting the “angst” of it affecting me personally. I can understand that given the way a very few people have responded to me. While it is unpleasant, it does showcase their behavior so I am quite alright with that.
Again, I wish you the best success in getting out of that environment so there is minimal to zero impact.
Lisk,
Good deal, as I believe much of use can be taken from this thread. It’s really up to the individual, on the lessons/inspirations or challenges they see. And you’re right on, about me having “feels,” even if others aren’t weighed down by what I’m concerned about. What’s really unhelpful is if I do this with my nex…not IF…more like, how often? 🤔Somethin’ to ponder~thanks!
#Don’tAssumeOthersAreFeelingWhatIAm
#NarcsWillUseMyEmpathyAgainstMe
#NarcsWillUseMyEmpathyAgainstMe
Ugh, I know that hashtag too well, Caroline-is-fine.
I hope you enjoy the fineness of your Sunday!
If HG does not tell a reader that they are a narcissist because there’s no use since their narcissism won’t allow them to accept it, then what does he tell them?
Maybe he tells them whatever they want to hear that fits with their facade because that’s the only thing their narcissism will allow them to believe. Their presence here serves a purpose as they tend to want to reap the rewards of having a close association with HG, they will dote over him, kiss up, they carry out useful roles for him, and can actually be helpful commenters. Narc’s are always tipping either good or bad, useful or harmful.
The blog is for the benefit of those who truly need it, empaths who have been victims of narcissists. HG’s blog is a godsend to us. He is very adept at handling us all, the empaths and the narcissists too. He seems to really dislike the goofy lessers that come on from time to time, so he lets it be a field day for the mid readers to have a food fight that day and enjoy themselves. They might misperceive a true empath who says anything that sounds negative as a food fight festival, but will grow bored when the empath responds with logic instead of buffoonery like a lesser would have. HG however will tell them this commenter is good and legit, but their narcissism wants to fight and so might not hear him. We are on here and in real life with narcissists, it’s a good lesson to use the things we’ve learned here to see the truth.
Kel
I’ll be direct. Are you including me in this group of mids you refer to as HG keeping for his own purposes here? I’m not angry, I just truly would like your honest opinion.
NA
If I was then that would be kind of a silly question to ask me considering, but honestly you’re a mystery to me- a big sis protective type and a rough-house too. I understand your asking because I notice you seem to question that a lot, like you’re not convinced about yourself and wondering. I wouldn’t presume to include anyone specifically.
Kel
Could a big sis with rough house also mean an empath with higher narc traits? I din’t actually question what I am but I understand others do and why. Thank you for your honest answer. I appreciate it.
I don’t know.
kel,
Your response is most elegant.
NA what I only ever hear from you is LT
LT? What is LT?
No, I believe NA is an Ennea Type 8. Only she can confirm, however. But 8s have tough exteriors but are soft and mushy on the inside.
Kel, In the past, on more than one occasion, HG has stated that if someone takes the ED and is not an empath, he tells them they are not an empath.
HG Tudor says:
April 16, 2019 at 08:27
I tell them they are not an empath and yes it has happened.
FYC
Correct.
Fyc
I didn’t say anything about the ED test.
Kel, I was referring to your comment:
“If HG does not tell a reader that they are a narcissist because there’s no use since their narcissism won’t allow them to accept it, then what does he tell them? Maybe he tells them whatever they want to hear that fits with their facade because that’s the only thing their narcissism will allow them to believe.”
Sorry, I figured you would get the inferred meaning, but I should have filled in the inferential leap: When HG has a narcissist take the ED, he does not tell them they are a narcissist, he tells them they are not an empath. I would imagine the same logic would carry for a reader. Further, I doubt HG needs any narcissist tertiary sources and I doubt he would pander to a narcissist unless it was to expose them.
Fyc
HG Liked my comment, “If HG does not tell a reader they are a narcissist, then what does he tell them?”
Hi Kel,
You made very valid points and questions. I appreciate them very much.
Lisk, I have read your kind comments. I will reply to them later but I had a headache attack so I’m taking a break for now. Maybe that’s why I’m not a SE beyI just don’t have the stamina for this. I also have a five year old and a two year old who treats me like she cuts my paycheck.
HG, if one of us takes an Empath Detector test and the result is a narcissist and then we come back to the blog and lie and say that our ED result is that we are an empath, would you be able to say in retort that we are lying or would you not be able to because of the confidentiality agreement?
I ordinarily follow the confidentiality provisions, however, on case by case basis ascertaining the relevant facts and merits, I may form the view that such an act would breach the confidentiality provisions and therefore I would be freed from maintaining the duty of confidence.
Thank you for your answer HG! I’m glad to know that there is a safety precaution or course of action if something like that happens.
I ensure this is a safe environment. Some of you fail to maintain this through off blog contact contrary to warning. That’s on you.
I understand HG and thank you for the safety protocols. I’m much more careful now. This has been the first blog that I have ever participated in that is not a Facebook group. I now realize the possible repercussions that could arise from being careless.
It’s more than being careless. It’s an act of commission and not one that would be done if people listened.
I didn’t see it that way but you’re absolutely right HG.
Kel: I cannot see or use likes so I would not know that. Thanks for sharing. If HG’s “like” of your comment is a tacit approval of your comment in whole, then you would be correct, and his statement regarding the ED and what he says to narcissists who take the test does not follow over to blog commenters. Good to know.
In your same comment HG “liked” you state:
“Their presence here serves a purpose as they tend to want to reap the rewards of having a close association with HG, they will dote over him, kiss up, they carry out useful roles for him, and can actually be helpful commenters.”
If HG approved that statement, I am genuinely surprised. There are so many people on the blog, myself included, who have said flattering things or performed useful tasks in support of HG out of genuine gratitude, because we have endured a lifetime of abuse by narcissists and finally found the help we needed. Who would have guessed that HG was lying to us all this time by calling us empaths when we are really all narcissists? Good to know. Seems rather cowardly all of that would surface from you outing HG’s “like”. He alway struck me as someone more than capable of speaking for himself.
FYC,
You “doubt he would pander to a narcissist unless it was to expose them.”
I doubt that, too.
Dearest HG: You mentioned to MommyPino that meeting up with possible Narcissists and all is an act of commission, if I understand correctly. I do not understand. I looked up what is meant by an act of commission and I could not make out the various definitions and so I could not apply it here. Will you break it down for me what you are saying?
No PSE, I am referring to the fact that I repeatedly explain to people that they should not communicate and interact with people from the blog, away from the blog, for a variety of reasons which I have repeatedly explained.
I was making the point to MP that communicating with someone off blog is not a careless act, it is one of commission, namely you have either purposefully contacted someone or someone has contacted you and you have responded to it and thereafter escalated the level of communication, for instance, swapping telephone numbers.
It is not a careless act. It was not “whoops, I have sent a direct message to XYZ because my fingers slipped. ” It was a purposeful and deliberate act designed to establish contact and therefore is an act of commission.
Correct HG and I’ve never been in contact with a narcissist off blog—(I was on Facebook from a FB site) that’s not the point as non-narcissists fall out. Perceived slights, hurt feelings, different perspectives, the inability or discomfort to post what you want.. The problem is often a lack of critical thinking capacity upon arrival which impacts decisions made. It’s also a rather unique venue so when very vulnerable (often upon arrival) a choice to connect overrides sensibilities. I have no issue with anyone on this blog truly— while on this blog and no I don’t think anyone here is a narcissist with whom dynamics have been tense. I can’t paint everyone a narcissist because we don’t see eye to eye or have a grievance. That is ridiculous.
I thought we get the boot if that happens. That alone is enough for me to not even consider it
Thank you, HG: Wow. Act of Commission: does have a strong sound to it, and therefore the phrase caught my curiosity. So, it is a deliberate and aware and purposeful and premeditated action. I fully have noticed that you clearly and adamantly do not promote this type and sort of thing, of people contacting each other and even meeting up, away from your site, which is a moderated site of knowlege about Human Behavior and specifically Narcissism. And specifically NOT a `greet to meet` type of site. You are so right: I know for a fact that even dating sites that are purposely set up for and actually promote people to meet in their business model, have been successfully sued when bad things happen, when people contact each other and/or meet and become victims of physical and financial and sexual and emotional and psychological and other types of abuse. They are responsible for what they are promoting. And even though the dating sites have to set up their sites on the record as dating sites, by way of law, for people to contact and meet each other, and even thought the dating sites formally register their sites that way and then take on various types of insurance policies from insurance companies and supposedly screen people, and perform various degrees of screening with feedback, still so much bad stuff goes wrong when people do contact each other. People still will do what they want and like you say, you can not legally force them not to, and so now I understand completely why you do not promote contacting and/or meeting, and that you do caution us and warn us so strongly to keep communication safely on-site, and if we ignore your warnings, we are deliberately participating in an: Act Of Commission. Thanks.
I prefer this site when HG is running it.
But he *is* running the site alway, kel.
I guess he’s choosing to run it this way, for now.
Lisk
I prefer this site when HG is commenting on it. I just peeked in to see if he was back, and will come back when he does.
That makes sense to me, kel.
I actually am appreciating the fact that he is not here commenting at the moment. It fascinates me how some require his validation of their own thoughts.
It is a good lesson for me about people in general.
Kel I have to say you really have a way with putting words together so elegantly. You paint really good pictures in your posts. It’s like watching synchronized swimming.
Wow Mommypino! Thank you very much. I was honestly just admiring your posts farther down this thread and how well you detail the points you make. Your writing is very honest, and you’re a very considerate person.
Thank you so much too Kel!! I appreciate your kind words to me and your honesty in this thread. You are a class act!
Is it any wonder why HG says he’s fine the way he is and there is no reason to change? People tell him all the time that he’s missing out. WTAF? Missing what? This? He must be laughing his balls off looking in this little petri dish. I just laughed out loud myself.
NA
I remember HG once likened it to scientists observing rats in a maze and I thought that was hilarious although others did seem quite offended. This thread reads itself like a long game of “pin the tail on the donkey” (…pin the tale on the narcy?).
Toldja. The Brawling Brides in Manos: The Hands of Fate.
What a film! I think the guy who directed that did so on a bet. Literally, I think someone said, ‘I’ll bet you can’t direct a film’ and that guy said, ‘I’ll bet you I can.’
So he did. Thus results that borefest. Even the title is redundant. It basically says, ‘Hands: The Hands of Fate.’
Watchable only on MST3K.
Bibi
“Hands: The Hands of Fate” should be the title of my memoirs! More inspirational words have never been scribbled! On a paperback cover with two left hands.
Thank you for saying this NA. I’m always thinking it. It’s in their nature to help but they harp about improvement… look around. HG is winning. I feel these people miss the point of the blog. The narcissist won’t change but we can.
There is an article HG wrote about the different types of commenters on the blog. Entertaining.
Jess
Haha, yes, I think the article is Come One Come All?
There have been a few offers of suggestions for new additions over the years.
I think he is likely in a coma by now, due to boredom on this thread. Not sure what everyone is even arguing about anymore. Oh well. Did anyone actually comment about the article?
Yes, Bibi, a few did comment about the actual article.
My guess is that HG is hanging with SM or doing some other important work, and that he reads/approves comments while he’s on the loo.
My N-ex once said ‘give me a hand to get out of this hole’ when he had talked himself round in circles. I thought at the time that it was a moment of insight for him. I know now, of course that it was a pity play and re-setting. There have been quite a few ladders put into this particular hole, but instead of climbing up them, folks keep chopping them up and making camp fires out of them
Of course HG says he’s fine the way he is. HG is disordered. Due to his lack of real empathy, he has (and continues to) inflict a great deal of abuse on others. Besides adhering to the rules of this site (it’s HG’s blog rules), it doesn’t concern me what HG thinks about how empaths behave. Do I care that he sees we’re not perfect and mess up? No. Do I care that he sees how messy things can get when you have a larger array of emotions? No. I’m grateful to be able to feel empathy and not methodically, maliciously hurt others, with no guilt to boot.
I’m also grateful to have a true self, which I can feel — and all the good intentions (and actual good) that comes from that — for myself & for others. As empaths, we can decide to live fully & freely — in a way a narcissist cannot. A narcissist is a slave to getting their fuel, without guilt to who gets hurt in the process. Of course, it is also true I think/feel like an Empath, as that’s how I’m wired; but logically speaking, I think a strong case can be made that it’s in our *personal freedom* where we can lay claim to what is the truly good, freeing thing (empathy), which can never be taken away by complicated, messy, or less-than-stellar behavior. So in this way, empaths & normals have been granted the good thing of complete freedom, to consider & choose & change as necessary, with their whole self intact; and their ability to empathize, perhaps ironically, is key to this wonderful freedom. Bottom line: Narcissists have an inner void (not Empaths/normals) & also less real choice/freedom in how they behave (not Empaths/normals).
Although empaths are certainly not saints & only human (flawed) and possess big, deep & wide emotions that can make things messy at times, we do not have that need for fuel & a lack of empathy that drives us to resort to abuse, which is the crux of why “how a known narcissist views an empath” is a non-issue for me.
HG only knows how to be a narcissist & is not equipped otherwise, so of course he won’t feel led to change his ways, nor will he be swayed by our behavior — good or bad — uplifting or discouraging.
This post of mine (Nov. 23/12:30) is in reply to NA’s Nov. 22 (21.44) post.
CIF
I don’t care what HG thinks of empaths either. I was saying that from HIS point of view and not ours, this must reinforce what he always says – which is that he sees no reason to change. I didn’t say he shouldn’t consider changing – I’m saying that dealing with these types of scenarios due to empath emotion would not appeal to him or be a draw for him. Some here have admitted that they feel it a curse themselves to be burdened with emotion, although at the end of the day I don’t really think they would want to be without them because they would have a comparative and want to experience all of the good emotion that they feel makes having the bad ones worth it. A narcissist has no such comparative.
Got it, NA~thank you for clarifying!
This thread has become a colossal bore. Great for the numbers though. Carry on.
It seems unseemly that comments here might have exceeded “Put a sex on you.”
I mean, priorities, you know.
Violetta, don’t forget sex was the topic of conversation when this all started. See what happens at the thought of no sex for 24 months? Haha claws come out and bitches be fighting 🤣
excellent 😆
Correction: the topic of conversation when this all started was about Cyn commendably noticing red flags and subsequently losing a narc before anything really got off the ground with him.
It was Lorelei who brought sex–or her lack thereof–into it.
The response immediately struck me as unempathetic and attention-seeking, much before FM1T said anything about Lorelei being a drama queen and before Julie ever mentioned anything about Lorelei’s narcissism. That’s why I remember it.
Lisk–I find doubt that perhaps I will be able to illustrate the hind story that appeared/appears unempathetic/attention seeking. The lack of sex. There was never a lack of a sex per se (well actually yes there was–but it wasn’t a horrible problem) or an addiction to sex issue. I also don’t expect any nod of getting what I’m saying, although I feel it is appropriate to mention the background. It is quite common that after the maelstrom (true for me at least) that dating is totally off the table. For reasonable and substantial reasons. There is too much to lose when not knowing what a truly emotionally prosperous situation looks like/feels like/just is. It has been a conversation with friends trying to entice me to date and I’ve been (mostly) steadfast in my resolve not to do so. Why? Because I attract narcissists and vice versa. Dating is an exceedingly disturbing proposition to even try. The jibe re, 24 months was because my separation does harbor on 2 years. It was a poorly contrived comment clearly. I still haven’t really dated because I dread the thought. I can’t fathom any expectations with anyone. I abhor the thought of having another partner after the last debacle. So, 2 years may turn into 10 for all I know in regard to a committed relationship. Therefore, despite my antics and whatever else there is not a genuine lack of empathy for anyone. In fact, it is arguable that I have empathy for who I don’t date because I am not ready to be a consistent person for anyone. It is common conversation on here though–that many of us are frustrated by a lack of sex. Thank you for understanding my need to clarify by reading this.
Lorelei,
The only reason your original comment struck me so strongly, and the reason I found it so out of place, is because it was in response to a person who had been considering dating, made the effort to share her story here, and seemed to deserve acknowledgement of the fact that her discernment and choices were allowing her to make some headway in terms of romantic life, i.e., Cyn was at least *not* going to be getting involved with a narcissist and would be holding out for better.
Certainly, I now understand that your intent was to joke, and I believe Cyn even took it that way; however, at the time, for this reader (if not others), your comment didn’t seem to connect. And then, most of the rest of the “banter,” even before Julie stepped in, seemed to be mostly about your reply and/or you.
That said, that was all I cared about in that moment and really all I have cared about during the whole thread. While I am sure others are interested and can relate to whatever you have written in your current comment, I have chosen not to read about Lorelei today.
Calonice: “Give up penises?!! There is nothing, Lysistrata, like a dick.”
Alright, I’ve been lurking and reading this shitfest of a thread for days now.
I’m a noob. Only been here for maybe a week & a half.
I don’t know Lorelai nor any of the rest of y’all, so I’m not playing favorites.
So an impartial spectator, I have this to offer:
Julie, if you don’t like the the way someone behaves, you’ve got a few choices…
A) ignore her
B) message her and politely ask her to tone down her “offensive” comments
or
C) don’t read / participate.
Did you notice the one notable option that is missing here?
Yep. “Melodramatically insist that Lorelai is a narcissist” did NOT make the list.
And why not?
Because was a crappy decision that was bound to fail.
Just what were you hoping to achieve? Did you hit the mark?
I’m going to guess the answer to that is, “no.”
You haven’t changed Lorelai because only Lorelai can do that.
The only person you have any control over, the only one that you can change is YOU.
So the next time you’re faced with a similar dilemma, I do hope you’ll try one of the other options I listed instead of the one you did chose.
Because, damn, girl. You won nothing… Not even a participation ribbon. Quit while you’re behind.
I think your post says more about you, then it does me.
But thanks for the feedback
I’m sure your response sounded a lot better in your head than it reads in print.
Because, as a matter of fact, my comments DO say a lot about who I am.
It says that I know how to deal with interpersonal problems and I’m encouraging you to think rationally before expressing yourself.
Nothing I said was unduly harsh, and I offered you legitimately constructive feedback.
I hope you’ll give some serious consideration to what I’ve said and quit while you’re behind.
With every subsequent remark you make, you’re just making yourself look worse and worse.
Let it go, walk away.
Then own up to, and learn from, the mistakes you made here. And quit making more.
Thanks again for you feedback, enjoy day 🙂
nightstandsecrets,
I’m glad to see your post and hoping all that not all noobs* are put off by the confrontational labelling, which isn’t (and, hopefully, not ever going to be) the norm here.
*Wow, glad I reread that; my phone wanted to autocorrect it to ‘boobs’
Haha Whocares I wanted to look up noobs on my computer at work then thought better of it. I was afraid it would set off bells and whistles in the IT department.
Lol, Mercy – probably the safest call.
Awww thanks, Whocares…
“Noobs”, “boobs” potato/ potahto
Whatever works
““Noobs”, “boobs” potato/ potahto
Whatever works”
Glad you’re easy-going, nightstandsecrets – it’s tense in here…thanks for the giggle!
I thought Noob meant someone who is a boob crossed with a Knob, as in knobhead.
The “kids” used “noob” as a play on the word “newby”
It probably stuck because it sounds so much like “boob” tho.
Yes, it’s almost all about Lorelei . . . Brava! to her!
I suspect Julie is enjoying her Friday evening, having had her case rested for her.
^*BOUNCE*
Oops I dropped that BOUNCE in the wrong spot. Ignore
Lorelei didn’t ask for this.
JULIE made it about Lorelei
And then it became about JULIE.
No, Lorelei made it about Lorelei.
Lorelei *always* makes it about Lorelei (until she’s called out on it and then she behaves appropriately for a split-split second . . . hmmm, reminds me of a certain narc I used to know).
The evidence is there. All one has to do is read.
lisk – Lorelei had an Empath Detector done…”Standard” empath, with a hybrid of cadres.
WhoCares,
Thank you for sharing that.
Now I know exactly what I do not agree with.
lisk,
“Now I know exactly what I do not agree with.”
I would be interested in hearing a more direct response, because I can’t read minds and I actually value your input because I know you to be a considerate, constructive contributor who had been here a while.
I re-shared what had been reported by Lorelei in her ED because I thought that Julie’s evidence for backing her claim that she “faked” her results was pretty weak. (Yes, needless to say that I do put much stock in HG’s accuracy – if that wasn’t already clear.)
WhoCares, I asked K the same question, have sent you the link. Why doesn’t she accept HG’s analysis that I am an empath? I didn’t get a response from her so I moved on. Why do we have to force lisk and Julie to accept Lorelei’s ED results? Aren’t they entitled to the same rights as K to hold and keep their own opinions?
Mommypino,
“Why do we have to force lisk and Julie to accept Lorelei’s ED results?”
My intent isn’t to force anyone to accept anyone’s results. (lisk has already stated her perspective on that issue). My issue is that I do not believe that the “factual” evidence is all that factual in Julie’s perspective on Lorelei – I am just trying to see what lisk sees in these claims. Or to at least examine “the evidence” further.
Sorry, Mommypino, I won’t engage in comparing threads. Both are fairly convoluted on their own – tying them to together makes it… unhelpful.
P.S. Notice who made it about Julie–certainly not Julie!
WokeAF – now, that *is* factual.
Hi WhoCares, WokeAF and PSE,
I have read your responses to me. I don’t think that Julie is a narcissist and when I saw NA’s post demanding an apology from Julie and seeing the mob insinuating that she is a narcissist, I thought that this is all ridiculous. My point is that K has engaged in worse behaviors and showed zero empathy towards some commenters and yet nobody puts her on trial the same way that Julie is put on trial.
I don’t believe that Julie is a narcissist just because you cannot convince her that Lorelei is an empath or you cannot make her apologize. I believe that with so many commenters that poked fun of her and directly and indirectly called her a narcissist, the armor is up so I thought to comment to NA that calling Julie to apologize is pointless just like calling K to apologize is pointless. Why am I expected to move on about my experience from K (which I have moved on by the way) but you are all here so stuck on proving the Julie is a narcissist or that she should apologize? I don’t necessarily believe that K is a narcissist but I believe that I will never get an apology from her and I’m totally ok with that. But why is there a trial against Julie?
By the way, forget about the Ed thread. I have the Bare Necessities thread and the Audio Consultation thread links here so that anyone here who wants to hone their skills in dissecting or analyzing narcissistic behaviors can practice on K as well! Plenty of materials there! K gaslighted empath007 and issued the twin line of defense (blame shifting). On the Audio Consultation thread K did the “bouncing robotic responses to my questions which are logical and similar to NA’s questions to Julie. So yes, from my experience empaths can also bounce if they have their armors up. In fairness to Julie, she has been addressing everyone’s questions like a real person and does not go on a robotic mode.
Enjoy!!
The eruption:
K says:
October 3, 2019 at 11:27
empath007
That’s your evidence?! Pathetic.
Fact: HG did NOT call you or empaths idiot(s).
You claim to have a strong moral code, yet you have continued to lie repeatedly throughout your comments about HG calling you an idiot.
Your hypocrisy and contradictory behaviour is stunning. You are a liar, and you continue to be misled by your emotional thinking and that makes you an idiot.
I read the comment to Jaya and it does not state: empath 007 is an idiot.
Google integrity and read about it because you have none.
The gaslighting:
K says:
October 3, 2019 at 21:57
empath007
I did not explode and I do not dislike you, that’s your ET at work.
It’s all very matter-of fact; you repeatedly made inaccurate statements and I pointed it out. Irrespective of how you feel about it, facts are facts and, rather than take responsibility for your behaviour, you chose to continue to defend those inaccurate statements and cast yourself as the victim.
This isn’t personal; it’s about clarity. You accused HG of something he didn’t do, which leads me to question your strong moral code. Your behavior belies your morality and that is confusing to the reader.
https://narcsite.com/2019/10/01/the-bare-necessity-3/#comment-304405
Or the Audio Consultation thread where everything that I said and asked K “bounced” and she went on robotic answering machine mode talking to the magical readers?
MommyPino says:
October 23, 2019 at 18:41
K, as promised, I will give you an honest reason why I made that comment which you call as my ‘malign hoover’.
I disagree with your series of behaviors on the blog where you inaccurately and unfairly dissect a commenter’s behavior or cite their actions and attach a narcissistic manipulation to that action when you disagree or dislike that commenter in order to paint that commenter as a narcissist. You didn’t only do that to Esther, you have done that to me and to Empath007 as well. I was in the receiving end of your behavior once, you falsely accused me of manipulative behaviors such as lying and manipulating someone which God knows I never did. I’m not saying that I never lie but in that thread I did NOT lie or manipulate anybody. You did the same thing with Empath007. You never apologized to any of that, instead you gaslighted her and you blame shifted me that I engineered my own Victimhood. On both occasions, both Empath007 and myself were going through something. I lost my mom just a few days before we had the debacle. Empath007 just found out that someone that she thought was a decent person abused little kids. And yet you ran with judgment against us. I disagree with your behavior in your post that I made a comment because it was vicious against someone that you don’t know. You don’t have any evidence that Esther was lying about having a bipolar dad or that she wasn’t having a tough time or going through something. You simply do not know her enough.
Why isn’t it enough to just disagree? Foolme1time did a great job without being vicious to Esther. Why is there a need to go for the jugular?
K’s bouncing robotic response:
K says:
October 24, 2019 at 15:55
Recognize gas lighting when you see it.
Narcissists are projectors and will accuse you of behaviors that they themselves engage in because they reject culpability and ignore their contribution to the situation by insisting that someone else is to blame.
Narcissists rewrite the narrative by inserting themselves into the situation and casting themselves as the victim, as well as, arguing in bad faith, twisting the truth and mischaracterizing others to distort the truth and cause the victim to question their reality. They will smear the victim by throwing in additional story lines to distract from their behavior.
Narcissists will also tell you how you think or feel or what you need or want. That is verbal abuse AND gas lighting, recognize it.
Narcissists are prone to delusional thinking and the two most common types of delusions are delusions of grandeur or persecutory delusions, for example, they will accuse you of stalking them when there is no evidence to support the accusation.
Narcissists will wear The Victim’s Cloak and then demand apologies from the True Victims for perceived attacks and that is gas lighting’; recognize it.
Due to the altered perspectives, facts are challenge fuel which makes the narcissist feel a lack of control and results in a manipulative response.
I see a malign hoover: split thinking, projection, lies, pity plays, gas lighting, triangulation, playing the victim, hypocritical and contradictory behavior, facade maintenance (whiter than white behavior) and blame shifting (no surprise there).
I asked the same questions that NA was asking Julie:
MommyPino says:
October 24, 2019 at 19:56
K, I will be sending you a few questions but here’s the first one:
1. Do you believe that HG was inaccurate or made a mistake when he figured out from my Empath Detector that I’m not a narcissist?
Loading…
MommyPino says:
October 24, 2019 at 22:58
K,
2. Who were the two narcissists that you were implying in thy w Bare Necessity thread?
NarcAngel says:
October 4, 2019 at 14:21
HG
Do you see the differing responses to this thread (good/bad/idiocy) as being affected by the types (schools and cadres) of empaths involved? That was one of my thoughts.
K says:
October 6, 2019 at 09:00
NarcAngel
Based on their comments, one is a MMRN and the other is a LMRN or ULN.
https://narcsite.com/2019/10/01/the-bare-necessity-3/#comment-304405
Loading…
MommyPino says:
October 25, 2019 at 05:04
K,
3. If you weren’t stalking my comments, how did you come up with those two separate comments that I have made from separate threads and matched them together with what you (incorrectly) thought was an inconsistency? I remember you told a commenter that you keep apple notes on comments and they are even alphabetized with titles. Do you then keep notes on my comments that you think are inconsistent? Are you on some type of narcissist witch hunt here? Are you spending all of that time and effort to have control?
4. And lastly, why is it that you have zero empathy for me, WokeAF, empath007 and Esther? What did we do to anyone to not deserve any grace from you? How come you were not able to give us the benefit of the doubt when we explained ourselves that we were not being manipulative (not it the case of WokeAF, you did not accuse her of being manipulative). Why are you above saying sorry for hurting our feelings? I don’t get it.
My last remark would be regarding my first question. I find it interesting that you declare your belief in HG and yet you disbelieve his assessment of me as an empath. It is actually a big inconsistency itself. If you really support him as much as you say here on the blog then you should be able to humble yourself enough to defer to his expertise. There’s a reason why we all hire him to do detectors and not you. Because he is the expert. He knows what he’s doing. What are you going to do when another commenter here that you accused of being a narcissist gets an Empath Detector and results to being an empath? The fact that you have known for a while now about my Empath Detector results and you still insinuate that I’m a narcissist show that you could care less about the truth and about accuracy. I am not demanding an apology from you but I want to take note of your inability to do so and your tendency to gaslight and blame shift in order to avoid issuing anything close to an apology. You will most likely deflect, avoid or blame shift once again. I don’t care. I have said my piece. And thank HG for allowing me to do so.
K says:
October 25, 2019 at 13:06
Dear Reader,
You may find these articles very helpful. I did.
https://narcsite.com/2016/10/12/5-reasons-we-argue-and-what-you-can-do/
https://narcsite.com/2018/06/27/why-are-the-arguments-never-resolved-5/
https://narcsite.com/2016/11/30/for-the-sake-of-an-argument/
Here we go. Determined to make this thread about her as well.
NarcAngel
Correct.
NarcAngel
It’s very telling when individuals insert themselves into the narrative and then proceed to cast themselves as the victim.
Bounce!! I just wanted to try it too.
HG Tudor
MARCH 7, 2019 AT 09:36
Understandable observation WN. It has to be our way and of course that will invariably appear ridiculously awkward and laborious from your point of view.
The operative phrase is: ridiculously awkward and laborious from your point of view.
Mommypino,
When I used the adjective “horrific” in reference to the Ed Thread, it was directed at the behaviors of all three of you at one point in those interactions (horror, disbelief & shock were felt on my part – to be truthful) but I’m not going back there. I am also not joining the “you should apologize” debate here or in past discussion. I wasn’t advocating apologies then and I am not now. When I see an anomaly in someone’s behaviour I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and believe there is a reason behind it.
I am actually still here, in this thread, because I am trying to understand the behaviour of truth-seekers – which is almost as enlightening as learning about narcissists.
WhoCares
Bingo! The Truth Seeking.
To no one in particular:
I find it interesting that people use words like bloodbath, fights, brawls etc to describe threads like this. That is emotional thinking and projecting feelings onto others. There is no frothing at the mouth or things being broken. I can assure you I am quite calm sitting here with my coffee and sweet potato. It is merely a discussion and exchange of information to me. I am not angry at all.
NarcAngel
I am calmly eating popcorn while trying to wade through all the bullshit.
https://narcsite.com/2019/09/02/brilliance-baloney-or-bullshit/comment-page-1/
K
I am currently evaluating whether ot not I’be been punked by HG. If I might not be the Super Empath he confirmed me as, but rather a Mid he keeps around for hid own amusement. Hmmm.
NarcAngel
Ha ha ha…it’s like a trip down the rabbit hole! Who’s who?!?
NarcAngel got gas lighted in the conservatory. it’s a mystery.
I agree with you NA on how chosen words can effect perspective due to emotional thinking but that it how I viewed that past discussion – at the time. I don’t feel the same here, which is why I am discussing – or attempting to have straightforward discussion with a few…it is getting hijacked by heated emotional thinking.
How’s the sweet potato?
I’m thinking of making some lentil stew later…
NarcAngel
These articles are very helpful. Invalidation* is gas lighting; recognize it when you see it.
https://narcsite.com/2019/01/16/the-narcissist-manipulates-bringing-up-the-past/
https://narcsite.com/2017/12/04/what-happens-when-you-tell-the-narcissist-he-is-an-abuser-2/https://narcsite.com/2018/09/11/the-golden-rules-of-freedom-no-1-3/
Google definition:
Emotional invalidation is when a person’s thoughts and feelings are rejected, ignored, or judged. Invalidation is emotionally upsetting for anyone, but particularly hurtful for someone who is emotionally sensitive.
WhoCares, I was right then. You would pretend that you didn’t see. I didn’t give you anything from the Ed Thread, I gave you the narcissistic behaviors of K towards the empath007 in the Bare Necessities thread and towards me and Esther on the Audio Consultation thread. Thank you for proving my point about the clique. By the way, I owned up to my horrible behavior and apologized. Look it up at the Ed thread. K has no strength or courage to admit to her part and has never apologized. I highly doubt that people here are truth seekers. That is why I challenged it by showing an inconvenient truth. And I was right. Truth doesn’t matter if it doesn’t benefit the clique.
Mommypino
“WhoCares, I was right then. You would pretend that you didn’t see.”
To use my uninvolvement in one situation compared to my involvement in an earlier situation as proof that I am pretending not to see the first situation and that I condone the behaviour that occured during it is faulty. And truthfully, I stopped reading your comment when you started quoting other threads – because this one is already a headache to wade through and I have no interest in dredging up the past – so I really don’t know what evidence you shared there.
I have already stated the reasons for my non-involvement in the issues Ed Thread and I am not revisiting it
Since we are all (mostly) Truth-seekers, I will add some further truth to explain:
Truth: When the Big Little Lies posts came out I was staying at a women’s shelter (due to the fallout of leaving my entanglement). I was happy to have something to watch at night (once my son fell asleep) that was *not* a kid’s movie and made me feel part of Narcsite and in touch with some of the people here. I commented some and gave my 2 cents on Ed being a “normal” but could not really invest my self in analyzing the rest of the characters. I just didn’t want to feel left out of the discussion and it kept my mind off other things. Then the Ed Thread became a place that wasn’t pleasant to be in and I just couldn’t follow the back and forth (yes I commented some and laughed and was happy for that “normalcy” with the very real backdrop of having to secure a place to live – which is partly why I value banter here; since it is a place to come and feel normal when the rest of your life is anything but normal).
I haven’t been able to follow all the discussion here on Narcsite since then because I’ve opted not to get internet service in my new home (choosing to rely on my cellphone plan data) so I can put those funds towards other things. The only reason that I was here commenting around the time of the Odd Thread is because I had recently checked in to report on a certain outcome in my (very lengthy and challenging) legal proceedings with my ex. I wanted to express my gratitude for my learning here and how that contributed to the positive outcome – plus, I knew some individuals who know my story might like to hear it.
Then I got caught up in the Odd Thread because it made me very sad to think that there could be a repeat of the Ed Thread and I was honestly thinking: ‘new people are going to think this is a place where everyone gets accused of being a narcissist’ – whether or not someone feels those words are an exaggeration – I don’t care. I value this place and hate seeing those kinds of conflict. I was not grouping together with anyone, I was using my brain when I challenged Julie’s logic and she couldn’t defend her statements. The only thing I “attacked” was her logic. She isn’t accountable to anyone – but if she is going to voice her accusations against someone and label them based on what she perceives as “factual” then she should be able to stand up and support that viewpoint with real evidence. I pointed out some of the holes in her reasoning as an example for new people, hoping they wouldn’t simply except the opinion of long-standing commenters and actually *look* at the evidence presented.
I could only do that, in this particular discussion because I was able to follow most of it and had the presence of mind to engage (since I now have reduced emotional thinking and I am in a new residence and enjoying some stability).
And it bears pointing out that levity and banter here are not just shallow silliness but sometimes the expression of someone wanting to feel normal and connected when the rest of their life is a ball of stress. They just don’t feel like making that fact known.
Mommypino – I also agree with Mercy and her point that perhaps the parties at the center of conflict in the Ed Thread are all well-liked, that people don’t want to take sides and feel that you are adults who should be able to work it out. And I will add – if a satisfactory resolution cannot be found – no one can force that.
Hopefully that didn’t read as a sob story novella. I only shared the backstory on my uninvolvement at times because it’s, lately, due to practical matters not because of a clique or pretending something did not occur.
I likely won’t be opening this thread any more because when it loads it is a real data drain!
Well stated Who Cares.
Thank-you.
Thank you WhoCares for your response. I was unaware of your situation. I am glad that it has gotten better and more stable. I remember you talking about finding a place to move. I apologize if my comments have caused you to share something that you may not be that comfortable sharing or is struggling to deal with. I am glad that you find a sanctuary here with us and I want you to know that your kindness has been a sanctuary for many including me as well. Like I told Mercy, I am ready to move forward. I don’t have the desire to bring this up anymore unless I have to use it to defend myself. I believe that I have laid it all out already and people can look at it if they want or not. And HG has allowed my posts to go through as well which I am thankful for. I have no beef with anyone, honestly not even K. I was just pointing out what I have seen and experienced and I really believe that it was relevant because I was pointing out a pattern which I believe needed to be addressed. Others may disagree and I understand that and totally accept it. Thank you again for your thoughtful response and I apologize if my earlier comments were hurtful to you.
Mommypino,
It is fine, I didn’t have to share that but I chose to in order to illustrate that sometimes people’s behaviour has another explanation. My situation is much improved now indeed.
I like your choice of the word “sanctuary” to describe this place.
I’m happy that your situation has improved WhoCares. And I hope that it keeps getting better for you next year. I hope that you have a wonderful Christmas.
MP, For the first time in 3 years, I may actually have something to celebrate in the New Year!
I hope you have a lovely Christmas and that 2020 is good to you.
I’m very happy to hear that WhoCares. I have read somewhere that you went through this difficulty as a result of your most recent disengagement. I have to commend you for your bravery and doing what is best for you. ❤️
Thank-you MommyPino.
HG Tudor
DECEMBER 18, 2018 AT 18:17
Well those who make the demands aren’t empaths.
MP
I demanded an apology from Julie? And you accuse me of rewriting history?
Every time the term ‘super empath’ is mentioned, a certificate comes out and gets waived like a flag by a card-carrying certified se saying Me, me, me, not you, while humbly stating No, really, I’m not more special, just because this is the rarest of them all, and I have special high narcissistic traits. By the common definition se sounds as if they are one foot outside of being a narcissist- but, wrong, not so – they are one step from being a normal. A normal living with a narcissist will get depressed, their happiness will dull down to a numbness. They are not emotional like empaths who will look crazy wearing their unhappiness on their sleeves.
I am not a narcissist and I refuse to be compartmentalized. When I first knew my narcissist when the very beginning of deval was starting, he tried to describe me as who I was so he could tuck me away in his organized little box. But I said, What? What are you doing? Are you pigeonholing me? No, no, no, you are not going to do that to me. That is not who I am, and you’re not going to put me there. I am gray, black and white, blue, yellow, and chocolate, red, blue, and white. I will not be a round peg set in an uncomfortable square hole where I do not belong. I’ve had too many people in my life try to control me and I will not have it anymore. I am an empath period end. Congrats to any se, you’re so close to being normal.
Kel
I understand your comment an have felt that was as well. If you are referring to what I wrote, it was because previous to my comment someone said they “identified” with being an S.E while making incorrect accusations about others. I was explaining that adopting the title of S.E is not an excuse for bad behaviour. That they may have a different composition of traits, but that in the end they are still an empath and will show (at some point) those empathic traits – not just rail on and provoke with grandiosity and superiority. I don’t take being called next to normal as an insult.
NA
Thank you for clarifying your previous comment, and I’m glad being almost normal is not offensive.
Kel
Btw – I believe The Contagion is rarest and I certainly don’t envy them.
NarcAngel
As well you shouldn’t envy the contagions! We are the rarest and that’s probably a good thing. Being a contagion is a mighty hard row to hoe!
I just happened across this article and was blown away to see there were over 1000 comments!! I started reading just to see what was going on, but I’ve been 40 minutes n still can’t figure it out! Seems like it’s dying down now though.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Miss you and all the other familiar names. Glad to see you’re all still alive and kicking! ❤️
Windstorm! 💜
We need your logical voice here …I know, I know; not a good thread for a Contagion.
But still so nice to you pop in.
Happy Thanksgiving!
WhoCares. WOW you just caused me to have a lightbulb moment. I just commented that I am part Contagion and that it is just who I am. But your comment about this not being a nice thread for a contagion made me realize a lot of things about me. Answers why I could not read this thread. I was ok until I saw Julie’s name and then I had to leave. All the cruel things said in the heat of the moment. It also answers why sometimes when I am watching something on tv, I can’t bear to keep watching because I know what they are feeling.
Thank you. I actually feel like I have learned a lot about myself.
Kim e,
Well, if my comment triggered some self insight for you – as a result of windstorm’s visit – I’m glad something good came of this thread!
Hey Windstorm!
Good seeing you. I too had trouble reading this thread. I have suspected that I am contagion, but I don’t know enough about it to be sure, but what you say with regards to social situations being stressful is spot on with regards to me.
windstorm and NA. I am 17% contagion. Mostly standard but contagion is second. Not sure if it is good or bad because in my world it is just who I am. Just interesting that you commented that it sounds like an awful thing to be. I didn’t take it personal, just found it interesting
Kim e
I certainly didn’t mean to disparage anyone with contagion leanings. It is just who I am also. But I have found it to be a lifelong burden to be constantly bombarded by all the emotions around me. This has made all social interactions stressful and difficult for me. I’m very glad you have not experienced this.
windstorm.
Up until the moment when I read your comment it never dawned on me why there were times I was very uncomforatbale in situations where others were very emotional…whether it was happy emotions or sad emotions. It was like I was on over laod and had to leave the situation, turn off the TV show. But now I get it.
As I am only a small percentage of contagion and find it overwhelming when I am affceted by it, I can not imagine how it affects you al the time.
Thank you for your reply. My understanding of this is an eye opener. Not quite sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing but an eye opener.
Kim e
Better understanding yourself is always a good thing. I went thru a really rough spell of depression a couple weeks ago where I felt really defective after a really difficult social Interaction that lasted several days. I guess it was a sort of meltdown. Hopefully you have enough normal in you that you don’t ever experience such episodes. But if you ever do, remember that it’s just a part of you that’s different and you can’t change it. It doesn’t keep you from being a wonderful person in lots of ways. We all just have to accept ourselves for who and what we are and do the best we can with what we have. Best of luck to you!
Kim e
I was referring to not having envy of how much a contagion takes on from others. I know Windstorm has explained that she is unable to even watch some movies or read certain books without gauging how much they might affect her. Do you find the same?
NA.
I never really thought of it until windstorm started talking about it. After I had my ED, I read up on contagion but it did not really click as to how it affected me. But now…I get it. The moveis and tv shows I could not watch. That thread from last week almost killed me. I could not read….had to delete.
Guess it has always been there but know I know what it is and why I do certain things. I just tole windstorm I am not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing that I now get it.
Next time I am watching something and just have to turn it off at least I will know where the overwhelming feeling is coming from.
And I am SSSSSOOOOOO happy that thread is done.
Kim e
I’m glad you asked for clarification instead of taking that as a slight. That’s how things are best resolved. We can learn a lot from the conversation of others and I’m glad you found benefit in this one, as I did when I came here and learned from Windstorm and Twilight. It offered to me explanation to the reason some people are more profoundly affected by seemingly normal experiences (even by empath standards). I can’t imagine being affected in that way – thus I don’t envy them comment. Good work on the 10 weeks!
NA. Thanks. 10 weeks is a good start but just a drop in the bucket. Had a hoover yesterday but if that is all he has, I will be fine. Just reminds me of how cowardly he is. Or as HG lovingly calls MRN…reminds me of what a twat he is.
Kim e, What’s the thread that everyone keeps mentioning? I must have missed it (plus I am nosy). Maybe K will lead me to it? Pretty please? 🙂
SMH…it is THIS thread. This is the thread where Julie was and fighting with the world.
Kim e, Oh – for some reason I thought there was another one. Because I missed this one initially I figured there must be another one. Maybe I am just being paranoid lol.
I was skimming some online articles about empaths and contagion and they all suck. Here is an example:
“Being an empathic person allows you to be more vulnerable to emotional contagion. It might be good if the emotion being circulated was something positive such as camaraderie, or the urge to move in a bar. But sometimes it can also be something negative like sadness.”
Why is sadness negative, exactly? I have no problem with sadness. These sites suck b/c they label emotions such as sadness and anger as ‘bad’ and happiness as ‘good’. No wonder if someone feels depressed, why they feel so defective.
‘The urge to move in a bar’ is positive? What?
Anyway, when I look up empaths I end up finding a lot of hippy woo-woo and they soon delve into talk about crystals. This is meaningless to me.
Not like I need to state the obvious, but your insights are much better, HG.
Kim e,
The smallest percentage in my ED results was for Contagion, so it is there but just a smidge. I wonder if this has sometimes (for me) a low level, undercurrent affect that I just never acknowledge because it doesn’t seem obvious but is still influencing my mood, feelings and physical well-being. It isn’t something that I necessarily need to address in the moment but accumulatively, over time, I think it does have a detrimental effect – and I never thought about this until *you* started
thinking about it. So, thanks!
Happy Thanksgiving, Windstorm❣
Peace & Love & Bountiful Blessings,
Caroline🤍
Windstorm!
Happy to see that you are well as I’ve been wondering what you’ve been up to. Thank you for thinking of us all and stopping to say hello. It means a lot. Don’t even try to follow this thread – it’s all out of joint and ultimately not worth it. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family (hope that little Super is not giving you and your daughter too much trouble haha). Take care my friend and drop in when you can. You are sorely missed.
Dearest Windstorm,
My heart just skipped a beat when I saw your name 😱
Soooooooo surprised n happy tears of joy ……finally !!!!!
Are you returning …we luv you, need you and miss you heaps 💕
Hugs n kisses to you beautiful lady 🤗💋
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
(Ps I hope you are really well… I wasn’t sure if I could post on this thread as it’s been stalling n freezing n I can barely move the page with so many comments )
Dear Bubbles
It is the biggest thread I’ve ever seen! Maybe HG is leaving it alone to see how big it will get. Ha, ha!
I guess I’m well enough. Hope you’re fine, too. I’m probably not really back. I’m still working on my same big project I left back in February to work on. I’ve made a lot of headway, but no where near finished. I need to keep my focus on finishing before I run out of time.
Great to hear from you! ❤️
Windstorm
If it’s a project that large you must be charting your family narc tree for Ancestry.com lol.
NarcAngel
Ha, ha! That ones beyond me! I tried to fill out the family tree page n my Bible once n found it impossible. No one would tell me any names beyond my grandparents. I kept getting comments like, “You’re better off never even hearing his name.” Or “ “best to leave them lost to history.” Nobody living would tell me anything. One aunt I was staying with said she had nightmares after id asked her about her family because she couldn’t get them out of her mind. She was so shook up n miserable, I stopped asking after that. I just wrote “unknown” n all the blanks.
🥨s family is about the same. From what I could pick up, his ancestors came to America to escape the law n all changed their names when they immigrated. No one even knew what country they came from. 🤣
Well Windstorm. I’m famous at long last! Good to see you.
Dearest Windstorm,
Thank you for your reply lovely one
I must have missed the reason for your leave of absence, however, I wish you all the best for your project
Social interaction can be extremely stressful and you must do what is best for you
All I can say is …. I give my thanks to Father Christmas and the Turkey for dropping in early and leaving us a wonderful n beautiful gift …. that gift, being you !
My warmest heartfelt wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving n Merry Christmas Windstorm
You’re always in our thoughts
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles
Your sweetness is always like a breath of fresh air to me! Thank you n you have a great holiday season, too!
Windstorm, if we had known hitting a 1000 comments would bring you back we would have done it a long time ago! With you making an appearance we might break WP. I’ve missed you and hope you and your family are doing well. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you, Mercy. We are all doing well. I’m going to see Frozen 2 for my first time with 2 granddaughters this afternoon. It’s been about to kill me not to have seen it yet!
Have a great holiday weekend!
Kel, I’m not sure if what you are saying about a normal in a narcissist relationship is correct but I am sure that HG described the co dependent as becoming numb and depressed. A person doesn’t have to wear their emotions on their sleeve in order to be an empath. Depression is an emotion or is caused my emotions and it’s a horrible sickness that some never find help for. I know because I watch my mother suffer through my whole childhood. I have very few memories of her being happy.
It seems unfair to criticize a SE for saying they are a SE especially when it’s been confirmed by HG. Everytime someone states they are a SE they get criticized for thinking they are special. The only thing that makes them “special” is the special criticism they get from others.
Excellent points, Mercy. I am so sorry your mother was overcome with depression, that would be very hard for both of you. Thank you for your balanced comment.
Depression is very sad. My oldest son was diagnosed with a mental illness a few years ago He is much better . What i dont understand is that my husband was there for him and helped him through the tough times e.g.trying to comitt suicide. he is A Narc and he showed empathy . I am just extremely confused.
Pati, If your husband is a confirmed narcissist, it may be that he has cognitive empathy. A N also sees his children as an extension of himself (their success, admiration, etc seen as his own) so he would not want his son to ‘fail’ or put the father in a bad light (he would not want to be associated with mental illness nor the stigma of suiside). If a midrange narcissist, he would also use the opportunity to display to the outside world how ‘kind and wonderful’ a father he is (facade management). Lastly, he might use his seeming ‘caring’ to manipulate your son to ensure he is seen as blameless or to use as leverage for a future manipulation (‘I was there for you, and this is the thanks I get?’ or ‘I was there for you now you have to…’. There is always another shoe to drop. Nothing is given freely with MRNs. I would be interested to hear your views on his deeper experience and motivations.
FYC,thank you for responding.
First of all HG confirmed that he is LMR N.
I do agree thet he must have cognitive empathy.
I did email HG and asked him about the cognitive emapthy in consulatation and he said that he has learned to behave that way ,that he doesnt feel it.
Its hard for me to except because he did save my son. Shouldnt i be grateful? I am . My N told me that (me as a mother ) wasnt there for him (my N) and that i didnt offer him any emotional support. But how can I if he doesnt have any emotions to begin with?
He showed to everyone what a hero he is.
I feel guilty because my son is stable and loves his dad. How is he going to react if I leave him.
I dont want him to have sucidal thoughts again when he is now stable.
Pati, You are in a very difficult situation. Given your son’s history of psychological issues, I would not want to guess on your best path; there is too much at stake. I am confident, however, that HG can navigate these waters with you successfully. I am so sorry you have had to deal with so much. Take care. We’re all here for you and pulling for you and your children. Sending hugs.
FYC, i do feel comfortable here and thats why I comment . You guys are like family !!!!!
My son’s wellness means a lot to me and thats why i am still with my N.(amongst other reasons)
I know the logic is GOSO and i havent applied it. Perhaps i will be disengaged from him. It will makes my life easier than me having to do. Yes i know its my ET.
Thank you again FYC!
Pati, you are very welcome, but I don’t feel I was able to really assist. I am wishing you the very best and I’m glad you found your way here.
FYC, yes you did assist me by listening ,and by giving me confidence Thank You i appreciate it.
Pati, thank you. You are most kind. I very much appreciate it feels like an impossible mountain to climb right now. But, it is solvable and you and your children will go on to thrive. Now that I know your situation more fully, I hope you did not feel pressure from me to take action quickly when we first spoke. I just wanted you to get the best help as soon as possible (from HG). I am sure you will, in your own timing, and when you are ready. In the mean time, take good care of you and your kids.
FYC, thats ok ,your advice is very useful. See i know the answer is GOSO . My situation is challenging . I would like to see HG’s view and I am sure he will give me the best advice . I know logic ,not applying it because i am trying to keep my family together . Coming from Greek parents I have been raised to keep the family together .i am not selfish. But not happy either.
I will eventually find my way. Thanks again !
Pati, I’m sorry to hear about your son. How old is he? I think kids that suffer depression have it the worst. There’s so much pressure in school and friends and trying to fit in and never feeling good enough. You’re a strong lady. FYC is right, the situation with your son and your N husband is complicated. I think what you are doing is exactly what needs to be done right now. Educating yourself. When the time comes that you make decisions about your future, you will know the right answers. Trust yourself.
Mercy , he was around 17 years old when it happend ,out of the blue. He asked for help thank god and we got him the help. At the time i gave birth to my 4th child and tried to keep my other 2 kids ok. The psychiatrist said he is doing better because of our family dynamics . Little does he know that my husband is A Narcissist. They do charm the doctors i mean he managed to charm me. My situation is so hard . I am waiting to see HGs point of view.
Thank you Mercy
Pati
I’m sorry for your son’s troubles.
My kids dad has SO many narc lesser traits, and uses SO many of the manipulations. But even though I found HG about 2 years ago it took me until only a few months ago to reconcile in my head that my ex must be a narc. He appeared to show empathy for both our children at times and appeared to ”love” them. I couldn’t get it.
The video HG did Is He A Narcissist pushes me over the cognitive dissonance.
(And the lion analogy just slayed me 😂)
He’s not been under the narc detector and that will happen soon enough as at this point I want that final confirmation from the authority, but also to be sure of his school and cadre for my own reference.
The lesser victim narcs , are very much like 2 yr old boys sometimes. Tantrums, hugs, tears, etc. But it’s all from a purely selfish point of view.
This outlook helped me.
Pati–the cognitive empathy is very difficult to understand. I still have moments of questioning what I saw, but just as stated, it is learned. It’s also pointless to tell my kids what their dad is. My sense of wanting some form of justice has diminished to almost zero because I genuinely view him as so inherently disordered it is almost clinical and not personal. I hate to use the word “blessed” as it feels fraudulent because I don’t do church—but it gets the point across. It took someone whose behavior is so foul for me to finally get it which is where some form of blessing in disguise has been. It is undeniable that he is so rude, unbelievably arrogant and disordered that I get the message. It has not been this way with other narcissists. I think the lack of consistency in devaluation makes it more difficult for people. When you are lifted up occasionally you tend to diminish the rest. In a way I will never need to tell my kids about narcissism because he is doing a good job of it on his own. If your husband has the capacity to be more engaging and appropriate as many do then there are different advantages/disadvantages. I think all of our circumstances have their own unique subsets of challenges.
“ In a way I will never need to tell my kids about narcissism because he is doing a good job of it on his own.”
Agreed- well stated.
FYC, Thank you for your kind words. My mom passed in 2005 of cancer. I spent alot of time with her in the end and I think we both got to say everything we wanted to say to each other. She felt alot of guilt about the depression and thought she let me and my brothers down. I didn’t know she felt that way. We never blamed her, we just knew she was sick. I’m so glad we got those last week’s. My only regret is that we didn’t talk sooner.
Mercy, That is heartbreaking, depression and then cancer. I have read there can be a link between the two. I am certain you were a blessing to your mother even when you may not have realized it. I have a feeling you spoke at exactly the right time–when you were both ready. That was such a beautiful gift for you both. I have no doubt she was proud of you and smiles on you now. You are a good soul.
Mercy
It’s not so much that self-proclaimed SEs are attacked for thinking they are special, but rather that it is almost always false. While it’s possible that a SE would “self-diagnose” correctly and state as much, the proclamation is often the result of a confused Empath with very high Emotional Thinking or even more often, the result of Mid-Range Grandiosity and Delusion. If that person is a SEC-C, nobody argues with that but people constantly claiming they are to justify their behaviour can cause confusion.
Desiree,
I understand what you’re saying and I’ve witnessed it myself. That’s why I love that HG does the empath detector now. In fact, that is my next purchase. It just seems like everytime someone states they are a SE they get criticized for it by at least one person. It’s a shame that NA has to enclose a disclaimer stating she doesn’t think she’s better than anyone else. The “card-carrying certified SE” was a bit too much for me.
Kel: Where does this venom come from? Did I miss a post were you are personally attacked by a SE? Why the impulse to degrade another empath, much less an entire class of empaths, only to place yourself on a pedestal? Where is the empathy in that? It seems a rather narcissistic a trait to me. And while we are on the subject, HG is as narcissistic as it gets, the rarest Ultra. Does he not have many valuable talents and likable qualities? Has he not added value to your life in spite of his psychological defense? If he has not, why are you here?
I do not understand why you feel ‘rare’ equates with ‘better than’, or more to the point, ‘better than you’. Where does that assumption come from? Not empathy. I have never seen any such assertion from NA regarding superiority, but I am seeing that from you here. Degree of empathy is not a contest.
ANYONE ensnared by a narcissist is in for a painful ride. Normals feel pain, not ‘numbness’ (recall Renata, the narcissistic normal of BLL). Empathy is not the degree to which you have emotion (worn on the sleeve or otherwise), it is the degree to which you can feel and share the experience of ANOTHER. All empaths have that ability to one degree or another. No contest. No jealousy or envy.
Kel, I don’t want you to feel “less than” and there is no reason you should, but this stands irrespective of anyone else. No one can pigeonhole you unless you buy into their definition. (It is ironic you are pigeonholing SEs though.) Each one of us is unique and valuable, including narcissists (as long as you don’t get not too close or allow yourself to be manipulated). Know yourself, Kel. You define you. Only you are you. Let people think what they want, that is their prerogative. Embrace all that you are and feel good about that. You deserve that. So do Super Empaths. So does everyone.
FYC
There was no venom – I have no idea what you’re talking about.
NA’s reply was perfect.
I did not put down SE. What you missed was me stating that everyone seems to want to be an SE, and that it seems to come off a bit overrated as something higher probably due to the word super. I was saying the high narcissistic traits in an empath are next door to being closer to a normal than a narcissist.
It was so simple. And I’m not interested in debating you over it
Also fyc
What is this quotation marks about me feeling less than?? I said nothing of the sort. Believe me, in no way do I feel less than to you or to anyone.
I am very happy to hear that, Kel. You certainly are not. That was my whole point. My reply was based on the tone of your original comment, that for me, came across as pretty negatively judgmental towards NA’s comment, SEs in general and even toward yourself. I do not see any empath classification as aspirational. Each has their strengths and weakness. I see everyone as valuable. No debate desired by me.
I’m glad read this one. I’m experiencing this stranger setting right now. It’s not bothersome, as HG says, but I’m glad to know beforehand that a storm is brewing.
Funny, because in true empath style, I had a premonition that after the holidays, the Narc will do a new level of devaluation, which there isn’t much to go. I’ll better ready with my mental bags packed.
This was great info to have.
Why wait for the hols, if the narc can ruin everything from Thanksgiving to New Year’s?
Violetta my initial decal and discard was at Christmas 2 yrs ago, the 1st Christmas without my Mom, for me.
I didn’t know any of this, so I was baffled, hurt, missing my Mom, it was terrible.
Violetta even tho I left – (escaped I mean- wow I didn’t ever say that until now!) from my kids dad –
I allowed him over for every xmas eve for 12 years despite the turmoil he’d inevitably cause to a smaller or lesser degree.
This xmas is my THIRD xmas where he’s not allowed .The kids still don’t love it but both understand. (They’re older)
It’s the tits.
Cogra and WAF:
If narcs can’t stand for people to feel special on their birthdays, how do you think they feel on Jesus’ birthday?
My kids dad loves xmas. It’s fun for him But he leaves everything till last minute and causes stress . I try to do it without him he has a tantrum about that.
He just has tantrums over things so often that I don’t let him in my home anymore. I won’t trap myself or my kids with him anywhere overnight etc.
On xmas If he has a tantrum and I have to ask him to leave then I’ve ruined Christmas, and even the children Would prefer everyone fights it out or tries to make up rather than having to boot him on Christmas I don’t have the energy for that anymore. So I stopped allowing him over for Christmas and then later I stopped allowing him over entirely.
Wish I’d implemented this sooner but oh well
Just my two cents for what its worth….i dont like to get involved in disputes but ive been on forums and seen conflict arise and heres my take back…its not worth it to draw things out. Say your piece and move on imo. Ive also seen many a person live on forums and it becomes their reality and with that when upsetting things are written it seems the end of the world and great importance is placed on it. I had seen a quote yesterday that i liked and it was ” the only person you can let drive you crazy is the person you give the keys to”. If someones getting under your skin walk away take a break. Also if you know certain posters trigger anger or upset dont read their posts. Ive done this many times online i will skip over certain posts bc i know itll bother me.
Also keep in mind certain individuals will lend support but have ulterior motive of wanting to draw out the drama bc they enjoy it and this isnt pointing fingers but ive seen this in other groups.
I think both lorelei and julie are empathic individuals 🙂
I will preface this comment by stating that I not only identify with being a Super Empath but that it has been confirmed by HG. Not as any statement of grandiosity or thinking any school of empath is better than the others (that is ridiculous), but to halt any unnecessary debate/accusation about my being a narcissist and by way of explanation that we can be empaths but behave and perceive things in very different ways.
I am not cuddly, do not say a lot of fluffy things, have ruffled feathers, debated, and offended some people with my opinions. My way of handling things could be described as a kind of tough love by some, but viewed as brutish and unhelpful by others. I make little apology for embracing my narcissistic traits because of my belief that they have benefitted me greatly and could for others as well. I put out my opinion and know that often it is a counterpoint to other discussion and that’s fine because it is there for consideration only – not expected acceptance.
But here’s the thing:
Being an empath and having narcissistic traits does mean that you cannot offer positivity and affirmation. It doesn’t mean that you cannot offer your opinion but understand when it isn’t embraced. It doesn’t mean trying to control the narrative completely or suggesting that if people disappoint you in what they say or how they think you should behave or respond that they “will come for you”. It’s hard to understand how one could profess to demand justice for comments made about complete unknowns and label them as judging, while doing exactly that in the present arena and tossing out a label that has been confirmed to be unfounded and then not apologizing. No, being an empath with narcissistic traits will show evidence elsewhere of having some balance, of being supportive – not just bringing the thunder. There will be positive comments to champion newcomers as well as those struggling to maintain the ground they have made up by being here. There will be suggestions on alternative methods of behaviour and thinking for consideration and possible success. The evidence to champion others will be visible – not just a declaration that it is done in the background but we cannot see it. There WILL be evidence if they are an empath, have been around any length of time here, and have made good use of, and understood HG’s material.
I am not making a determination or throwing out the label in this case of a narcissist. It’s possible to begin with an observation and have great conviction but lose sight through emotion to end up where you did not intend to be, but an empath will be able to see and feel (if only in hindsight) that they are not immune to losing out to emotional thinking as well. They will want to look at the things that were said about them to determine if there is any validity for their own growth. They will want to resolve things and bring back balance. They know that being strong and standing up for others does not mean that you can impose your will on them, or that if they are hurt by what you say or misunderstand, that you cannot clarify, adjust your delivery to enable better understanding, or flat out apologize.
Empaths with narcissistic traits are still empaths and there WILL be evidence of that.
HUGE Correction:
But here’s the thing:
Being an empath with narcissistic traits DOESN’T mean that you cannot offer……
Apologies for any confusion.
Think this is worked out pretty logically, NarcAngel, and for my part, I’ve never seen any post of yours that would discourage a struggling reader and lead to despair
My comments and experience are coming from the outside world, where you don’t have the luxury of a 1500 word essay to explain.
There are people who manipulate and those that get manipulated. Thats the real world, we live in the real world.
I am choosing to showcase a differing of opinion, I used to say sorry all the time, now I don’t. I only say sorry if Its the right thing to do. I do not, say sorry to appease, please or when i am defending myself from a tirade.
I do not waste my time holding peoples hand, being their crutch. The simple answer is I now say No, no to bending for you, no to listening to people make excuses.
No to any person, who wants me to be any different that i am. I am a whole person, the light and shadow.
If saying no to people, hurts their feelings, its because I’m putting myself first. So be it, I wasn’t born to be a mediator for people, my job isn’t to fix or save, my job is to honor myself, and if I have anything left over, then to make the choice to give and to chose wisely. That is my power.
The problem with thinking I’m such a good person, i dont hurt people, im an empath, im above that, i could never, is that you do everyday.
You hurt people everyday, you just dont want to acknowledge it.
Also an empath isn’t above the same criticism as a narcissist. One is not better than the other, both are complicit in their actions. Both deserve to undergo the same scrutiny.
I could make someone cry on this blog, but then rescue animal, from a hit n run.
Am I bad or am I good, I am both….
I see HG as a whole person, there are many elements to him, that can make him good and bad.
Polarizing is just as dangerous.
My term I will come for you, means my bad is ready to be seen, I’m ready for my traits to show and I’m ready for battle.
I make this very clear, I do not have to do anything that doesn’t serve me, it doesn’t mean I don’t give, I chose very carefully whom I give it too.
Ookkkaaayyy don vito corelone!
I’m not Italian, but I prefer goodfellas
Keep trying…. you will get there one day!
Can I just draw attention to the fact that this comment has four likes?!
HOW. HOWWWW
WAF. I had to stop reading this as I was getting tired of banging my head on the wall. And now to see your comment about the number of likes I find that disturbing
@wokeaf
Because there are lurkers on this site with no balls.
I don’t even understand how a come back that exposed a lack of comprehension skills got 2 likes
Yes, if people do not speak up and engage, then they have no balls. On the other hand, if they do speak up, then they are labeled as bullies or stalkers.
It’s pretty much lose-lose.
However, most likely, the people that are liking and not commenting need to devote more time to other more important things than getting involved. So they like and move on.
“On the other hand, if they do speak up, then they are labeled as bullies or stalkers.”
Lisk if you honestly think that is the issue you haven’t been paying as much attention as you may think
Ok now I’m pissed.
Ball-less lurker here. Offended.
This has been a shit throwing fest rife with superiority and bullying. Even staying below the parapet and not engaging is not a safe place.
Speaking for myself only; I’m here to LEARN from HG. I don’t offer up opinions unless I have something of value to offer or feel strongly about it. I have RL friends I discuss shoes and lunch and interior decor with.
As someone wanting to learn and heal, I need the information on this site. I’ve read his books, I follow the blog, I’ve had detector tests. I’m trying desperately to make my way forward.
Usually I just grimace at the noise pollution on here, the superiority and territory marking by people who should have MOVED ON by now if they’re not here to assist positively. I hate hate hate the way old timers regularly have discussions about other bloggers as if they were inanimate objects. It’s offensive to me as a reader, I imagine being on the receiving end isn’t particularly uplifting either. Another reason to shut up and scroll on. Who needs that?
I did have an epiphany whilst trying to wade through all this toxicity. HG has been making a funny. How the mighty will fall..
SE is Super Empath right? Kinda like HG’s other pet names; Poppet means puppet to him. Super Empath will always mean Semi Empath to me. Able to dim empathic traits and let the narcissistic ones shine through. A lot.
Who’s worse? A narc doing what he’s born to do or someone who knows better but chooses that route?
I guess HG is conducting one of his own experiments by allowing the thread, a Lord Of The Flies type thing. Ugly. Some utterly disgusting comments about and to Mommy Pino. I needed to punch something.
Those of you who stuck to your principles did so with intelligence and grace. I admire you immensely. Kel and Lisk spring to mind immediately, there were others but I don’t want to go over the thread again to find them.
The reason this all started was someone with frequent off-topic posts being called a narcissist. I don’t necessarily agree (or disagree) but I found the posts annoying. Again, I’m here for what HG can teach me. In a SAFE environment.
The blog feels unsafe and not one bit helpful. Even for lurkers with no balls who are trying to stay out of it.
Jaya,
Nice pissed post!
The only way to absolutely guarantee emotional safety here is to GOSO on the comments and read HG’s articles ONLY.
Please don’t leave the blog because of the comments, especially when they are so easily avoidable (tempting, maybe, but avoidable)!
WokeAF
Likes really don’t mean anything. They can be manipulated and I bet you can guess if you think about it. It was better back in the day when a like showed the avatar of the person so that could be avoided, but I guess WordPress thought most people would prefer anonymity in their preferences.
When people like my comments, I can see who they are in my WP app, so they are not anonymous to that extent.
Yes, that’s the point. You see them, but it doesn’t show to others so they don’t know if they have been manipulated. Not everyone has a WordPress account, and even though I do, I have been unable to “like” comments for some time and can’t be bothered to look into it because “likes” do not really concern me enough to do so.
I’m hoping that what I said resonated with people.
WokeAF and NA
I use a wordpress account but am neither able to like things nor to receive notifications if someone responded to me. Is this a common problem? Perhaps I will just set up a new account and try again with that.
That being said, I used to get notifications about who exactly liked my posts, even though it does not show up here. I prefer that it did.
NA well I noticed the second she makes a comment it gets a LIKE 🤔
But still. Da fuk.
Woke: Facebook is getting rid of likes. The company communicated they desire to shift their focus to quality of content over popularity.
WokeAF,
I see five likes. I know that I am one of the likers.
How? Why?
This sentiment of Julie’s in particular resonated with me: “I make this very clear, I do not have to do anything that doesn’t serve me, it doesn’t mean I don’t give, I chose very carefully whom I give it too.”
P.S. Note that that isn’t the only comment of Julie’s here that has four or more likes.
Lisk, in context though that quote doesn’t make any sense
In the context of this whole comment thread, it absolutely does.
Are you all serious? Are you listening to yourselves? What makes you think you are the authorities here that decide who can comment and what they can say? You love to bully and fight. Did you even consider what Julie posted, she meant it as an honest observation and to help others see something based on what we learn from the article’s. There’s no reason to attack a person for having an opinion. You could’ve used some intelligence and had a calm conversation about why you think Lorelei isn’t. I personally think Julie made some good points, and I Liked several of her comments. Lorelei’s comments to HG regarding this have been rather mean and putting him down, I believe she thinks he’s an ass, she’s entitled apparently. She’s made several odd comments regarding this thread that make zero sense which is a red flag: she could beat HG at chess/ she would like a kangaroo with a baby in it’s pouch- only two which are on this page – these comments make me say – huh? and are red flags. Like it or not, Julie brought up some interesting points that add up. Random comments daily regarding amazon and shampoo are things we chuckle off, but may be signs as well. I’m saying Discuss the topic- don’t break out into a brawl because someone said something- that you took wrong. It’s not your job or expertise to kick a commenter off the blog or decide they’re wrong – I do not want to be in any clique like that- or have anyone tell me what to think.
Kel
You must not have read the whole thread.
I can tell you she did 🙂
”Are you listening to yourselves? What makes you think you are the authorities here that decide who can comment and what they can say“
That’s the point. Julie started this whole thing by thinking she was the blog monitor and telling everyone what they canning can’t post about then she called Lorelei a narcissist and it went off .
Lorelei challenges HG in a flirty cocky manner. He responds bc he gets it.
Thank you lisk, can I say, how you approached me and asked me to do something, I could tell it wasn’t a threat or manipulation, it was genuine and I agreed.
I am hoping people understand that strong boundaries protect you from being ensared.
I’m glad something’s I said resonated.
kel
I understand your confusion as I was not caught up on this conversation that has now been going on for quite some time. I recommend reading this thread again from the start (I think it started last Saturday) and the reasons for why NA spoke as she did become evident.
kel is absolutely not confused.
Hi Lisk
Maybe it makes sense to you.
But from my point of view Narcangels comment was very reasonable and considerate and once again Julie responds in a defensive/oppositional way.
But as you can see now, Julie has admitted that it is her defence mechanism that is clouding her judgment.
No, I cannot see that now, but I’ll check her comments later.
P.S. I disagree with many of NA’s comments in this thread.
Witch;
Yes, her “defence mechanism”
Think on that one a moment.
Woke, now there’s 5. Haha let’s not think too much on that. It brings back bad memories of Facebook stalking the ex N. Why was the mail lady liking his post? Ohhh because he was banging her on her lunch hour.
Woke, I’m still here by the way, your post is correct to a degree, you witnessed my self defence mechanism in action, to protect me from being controlled.
When someone tried to assert control, my defence and boundaries or wall is up. I can deflect to protect myself. Everything “bounces off.
It’s why narcissist try to control me but rarely can.
My self defence mechanism is to protect FROM perceived or real threats of control.
Lower empathy means my emotions are down and my soft side is protected to allow me an escape.
It is one side of a coin.
HG has the same mechanism BUT not only does he protect himself, he then NEEDS to control, to further protect himself. Hence controlling others gives him fuel and power, this is how I view it.
My battles deplete me, no fuel.
I liked what you wrote, its why HG has describes My personality as more robust to deal with manipulations.
My need to protect myself from such manipulations comes from NPD mother, sister and co dependant father.
When HG writes about his exes, I can see where they have tried to control him or assert some power that possibly leads to their demise.
You can see it’s like a dance of push pull. Someone tries a tactic and I deflect.
It is why I advocate so hard for people, to GOSO no contact.
(Julie, I am the one who “liked” this comment.)
I see the likes : )
I wonder what that “defence mechanism “ would be diagnosed as.
🧐
Lol you’re interrupting me watching the mandolorian.
Disney + is so good. The Australian version has more content.
Woke:
I briefly glanced last night when I was tired as shit and I wondered the same. I have no WP and so I am unable to like and nor can I even see anyone’s images from my computer. I can from my phone, however. I don’t get it.
She probably has sock puppet accts and liked herself.
Funny, but incorrect
(In my Joe Pesci voice)
” I only say sorry if Its the right thing to do. ”
It’s the right thing to do when you’ve targeted, accused, and labelled someone as a narcissist and are proven to be wrong. You were proven to be wrong.
There’s no verbal clutter or wiggle room there.
Leaving your initial opinions aside, the inability to stand up and recognize the fact that you were wrong, and to apologize with regard to that instance alone, jeopardizes/negates any claim of any supposed championing or standing up for others (concern for people new to the blog for example) claimed at the outset and exposes your initial intent as fraudulent. You wanted to complain and vent and had no real concern for anyone else. Fine, but don’t be a coward -own it.
Basing my opinion solely on my experience early in this thread, on the remaining comments in this thread, and on the direction this thread has gone, I would say Julie is hardly wrong.
If she is not spot-on, then she is very, very close to the mark.
Lisk
Ate you saying then that the results of HG’s Empath Detector is ineffective/defective in finding Lorelei an empath? That Julie has a better read on her being a dangerous manipulator?
I’m saying she faked it. Hence her amnesia and others then sending her links. And then her saying she is all of them.
Her comment to get out of the dungeon, was a perfect example to soften me up. I deflected & shut her down.
Lorelei manipulates it’s as simple as that
Julie
Interesting. I know that HG takes confidentiality very seriously, but I did not think he would allow people to lie about having had an Empath Detector. I would think that would affect his credibility and the assertion that he corrects inaccuracy, so he would not allow that. Perhaps I’m wrong.
I’m also honestly puzzled by this:
Of all of the potentially dangerous people who have been here to try to provoke and manipulate, why did you pick Lorelei? Why have you not commented on others?
Let’s have some honesty:
Isn’t it more the truth that her comments just bug the fuck out of, and annoy you, and so you thought you would address it under the guise of her being manipulative and protecting others who have not come forward? And then you threw another few comments in about others for good measure to express your displeasure and disappointment on how the blog is being run? Because it is after all moderated and run by HG. That you got carried away and your opinions turned into accusations?
I ask because HG is protective of his legacy and has been pretty good about ridding the blog of anyone dangerous after a brief appearance to exercise our knowledge. It’s in his best interest to do so. Otherwise the blog would gain the reputation of being a place where people are manipulated and HG is not a stupid man.
NA, firstly HG knows I would never do anything to jeopardize what he is building.
He has asked me numerous times to engage on the blog, I declined for a long time, as I knew if my personality came out, I would be labelled as a narcissist and it was pointless, however over a space of a week, I saw some posts that really got me worked up.
1). Lorelei was controlling the narrative, she was enjoying all the attention until she starting behaving more toxic, such as judging women in a horrific way and others joined in.Who as an adult is going to sit in a cafe and scroll through pictures and laugh at some one else and feel powered by it?
2) her need to be sexual and sexualized, this is a site for information on how to defend yourself from predators.
3) her grandiose stories, do you really think you can drink tequila and be drunk in Tiananmen square where people where murdered? Her stories are false, overly dramatic, so.much happens in one day of her life?? for someone who is such a high flyer she doesn’t know the basics. She also said her child witnessed something and she denied it, said she didn’t see it it didn’t happen, gaslighting.
4) HG knows this, he toys with her, but other people fawn over her, using their emotional thinking like she is some poor wounded creature.
5) then someone asked her about abstinence and she lied, the question was real, So HG, had to step in as dislikes misinformation, when he said she exaggerates
Well…..
I called it….
That to me is too many red flags, you may call her a drama queen, however the mere definition of that is some one that manipulates and needs constant attention.
Julie
Ah. I did not know that you were pursued (numerous times makes it sound more like recruitment) by HG to engage on the blog. There must have been some reason he felt compelled to do do. I wonder if it’s working out the way he envisioned. Thank you for your reply.
Although I would like to point out he didn’t know when I would, so I wouldn’t say recruit.
Omfg NA
you just made me laugh out loud so hard. I have tears in my eyes I’m not kidding. Omg. You’re so good 😂
I do not know the results, so I cannot answer that question specifically.
Regardless, I’ve said before in a different thread, I do not always agree with HG.
*BOUNCE?*
lisk,
I am replying here but this is to both you and Julie…do you really believe she is that close to the mark…do you notice that in every one of her replies she takes the stance of “better than”…more together in her personal life…more better at exercising her empathy…better at controling both narc/Empath traits…better at responding under
‘1500’ words in her comments…better at moving forward in her personal life than those she sees here ‘identifying’ with victimhood and not moving forward…I could go on.
I fail to see an ounce of humility or empathy in her comments.
Julie – by the statement below, do you really believe that Lorelei faked her Empath Detector results and cannot be “all” the cadres?
“I’m saying she faked it. Hence her amnesia and others then sending her links. And then her saying she is all of them.”
WhoCares,
To answer your two questions.:
1. Yes, I have already said that I believe she is that close to the mark.
2. I notice that Julie takes a firm, evidence-based stance, which I can understand might come across as “better than” to some.
lisk,
1. Fair enough. I think she has seized upon some the comments of one individual (that happen to rub some people the wrong way, while others see them differently and we are all entitled to an opinion) that was an effective bid to create a lot of divisiveness here.
2. I think the arrogance that accompanies her evidence of “better than” is missing from many of the reports of others here in sharing their personal successes with dealing with their narcissist and bettering their lives.
Who cares, when I am in a self defence mode, I am not going to be nice..
Nice gets you manipulated, the only issue I had with what narc Angel, said was she wanted me to apologise.
That to me was control…
It may not have been her intention….but it felt like it to me
Julie,
I did not asked you what your issue is with NA.
I asked you a direct question on specific words of yours spoken about Lorelei:
“I’m saying she faked it. Hence her amnesia and others then sending her links. And then her saying she is all of them.”
I responded to NA already.
Your non-answer is noted.
Julie
Control was not the intention in the apology. It is usually a reasonable result/action from people portraying themselves as you do when it is proven that they have been wrong or mistaken. To be forthright, stand up for others, honest, motivate people etc.…
If not an apology, people espousing those qualities will at least admit to becoming too involved too quickly or not have taken some things into account. Something other than clinging stubbornly to their initial stance when it is proven otherwise. But as Lisk has brought to light – not everyone has the confidence that HG or his paid consults are determinative and that some still some may question the results. Her comment was quite enlightening actually.
How do I put this, to admit I was wrong, means to be vulnerable, to be vulnerable means I am open to be controlled.
Coming out of “lurk” for this one.
Julie: “HG knows this, he toys with her.”
He that is giddy thinks the world turns round.
Well then Julie,maybe you should take your own advice and read narcangels comments objectively instead of relying on your “feelings.”
Isn’t that what you were criticising everyone else for supposedly doing? Focusing on how your comments made them “feel” instead of looking at it objectively?
NA
Good call, that’s exactly what I just thought.
Well HG I hope you’re enjoying your social experiment. Bye y’all!
1. There is and was no social experiment.
2. I have was in the US and not in a position to dedicate time to moderation (or emails). I could have chosen to not moderate at all, but I allowed as many comments through as possible (not all – I am still moderating) to keep conversations flowing but this meant that I did not comment.
3. In many instances there was no need for me to comment anyway.
4. I note that you soon returned after posting this comment.
NarcAngel:
“I wonder if it’s working out the way he envisioned.”
I wonder if it’s working out the way she envisioned.
Julie,
I have in the past been concerned about comments made such as making jokes about the Little Ceasar’s $5 pizza and such. I thought of all those who don’t comment who would think that is a treat because of the financial situation they are in. With that said, I have thought this site is like the Salem Witch Trials where if you say something incorrectly, you can be labeled as a narcissist. I thought of Mommypino before she returned and am glad to see that she shared her experience on this thread as a reminder for all. While HG knows that I don’t always agree with his assessments (like Lisk), I didn’t get the sense that is how you see things. Your comment to NA about admitting wrong equals vulnerability; vulnerability equals being able to be controlled is interesting as I see admitting wrong as taking responsibility and growth. For me, the true sense of strength comes from owning who you are and growing in areas needing growth. To cut oneself off from those out of fear that someone will take advantage of you keeps you in the fear and doesn’t allow for growth in strength. Fear is a strong emotion and the defense mechanism to combat it can look logical, but it isn’t strength. I understand wanting to protect yourself; I do it a lot of the time. You sound like a strong woman who sees things from other perspectives, and that’s great. I just hope you don’t allow your fear of being controlled to control you doing what you would see as the best step.
Dear Julie,
” (…) however over a space of a week, I saw some posts that really got me worked up.
1). Lorelei was controlling the narrative, she was enjoying all the attention until she starting behaving more toxic, such as judging women in a horrific way and others joined in.Who as an adult is going to sit in a cafe and scroll through pictures and laugh at some one else and feel powered by it?
2) her need to be sexual and sexualized, this is a site for information on how to defend yourself from predators.
3) her grandiose stories,(…) She also said her child witnessed something and she denied it, said she didn’t see it it didn’t happen, gaslighting.
4) (…)
5) then someone asked her about abstinence and she lied, the question was real,
(…)
That to me is too many red flags, you may call her a drama queen, however the mere definition of that is some one that manipulates and needs constant attention.”
Dear Julie
At this moment I am making 2 narc detectors which I bought from Mr Tudor, 1 for my mother, 1 for my father. I can assure you, that is a lot of work…
For a start, Mr Tudor doesn’t form his judgement based on 4 incidents over a week period, there are 40 questions, considering the entire life of the person in question and these questions are real mind breakers.
I know my parents very well, still it is very complicated to answer. Over some questions I’ve been thinking more than 2 months now. Because the consequences will be huge. If both my parents are of Mr Tudors brethren, than I will have to install no contact regime, so I take each of the 40 questions very serious.
It is the third month that I am working on both the narc detectors (admitted, I have little time), with questions as: “how does the subject interact with friends, how do the friends regard the subject?”.
In all honesty, NONE of us has the information to put labels on people/readers, because we can never fill in the complete narc detector of 40 questions on a complete stranger we interact with on a blog.
Even Mr Tudor needs 40 questions covering the entire life of the person in question.
Admitted, for some people on this blog, there are red flags to spot.
I thank you for bringing up the red flags you spotted.
NA,
I just saw your comment here:
“But as Lisk has brought to light – not everyone has the confidence that HG or his paid consults are determinative and that some still some may question the results. Her comment was quite enlightening actually.”
It’s not about “confidence” that HG or his consults are determinative.
First of all, I have no idea what HG’s empath instrument determined in the case in question.
Second, as with even the best of diagnostic tools there is always room for error (I understand that HG would disagree in his case), whether he diagnosed her as a certain empath or not.
Third, I mentioned before that I almost completely agree with Julie in her assessment of the evidence. Perhaps, my difference in opinion with her agrees with other aspects of HG’s “results.” I have no idea. I can only guess.
Finally, regardless of the above, I am making my own assessment based on what I have witnessed on this thread and based on the opinion I had already formed after reading in many other comment threads in recent weeks or months.
In a sense, it doesn’t matter what HG has determined. I know what my experience determines for me, and I place high importance on that.
And when I notice that someone else is having a similar experience, I am happy to let them know that they are not the only ones who see what they see.
Narc angel, yes I don’t apologise as showing any form emotion softness is taken as weakness and can be exploited by those who manipulate.
You don’t have to apologise, Julie. You have raised valid concerns about comments sections becoming polluted ( this is my brief description of the problem) with comments not related whatsoever to the topic.
Yes, a healthy amount of some banter and jokes brings some positivism, you are correct that some individuals are stepping over the line and engage the other readers and HG with their non sense – examples are what they had for lunch, what they had bought online.
Fair enough maybe they lack friendship IRL but this blog is not about their whereabouts.
I fully agree that those strange comments , drifting apart from the main topic, would be a real turn off for any new reader who comes to the blog to seek a real help and meaningful answers about narcissism.
The Empath card is played almost on a daily basis and in some occasions I do really doubt if the so called Empath is a such person or they want to be a such .
I didn’t take the Empath detector yet . No idea how accurate the detector is given the fact that 100% accurate test does not exist and there is always an error – a clinical, a statistical, an error into the methodology, etc .
Herewith I don’t want to diminish the Detector whatsoever!
However, after observing some behaviours I do really doubt how some individual call themselves Empaths .
What I observed recently – а reader called out another reader based on their observations. She was attacked straight way from other readers – it was kinda a packet of sharks.
Yes , the reader ( Julie ) might have not used all correct or sugar coated words .
However , the reader has her rights to express her opinion as every other person on this blog .
Even though her words are harsh or unjust , this could be pointed back to her more tactfully so we won’t witness the ugly online fight Oldies ( reader who are longer ) vs Newbies .
I was wondering why HG allowed this to happen- well, I truly admire his online persona as I have stated in many occasions before .
But I do keep in mind he is the Ultra , thus I assume the ugly brawl provides him some low quality tertiary fuel.
Thanks Claire I appreciate that.
Claire,
Please know that your thoughtful, measured, clearly written observations in your post to Julie are greatly appreciated by others as well (okay, at least by me—can’t speak for others).
Like you, I have not yet taken an Empath Detector yet, but I plan to. My guess would be that I’m most likely a codependent . . . or perhaps not an empath at all.
Either way, I would question/assess the result, as I question/assess everything, and utilize it accordingly. Questioning and assessing for myself in no way is meant to diminish the Detector or HG. My guess is he knows that intellectually.
As for HG gaining tertiary fuel via this extended comment thread under the “Why Does The Narcissist Seem So Odd?” heading, that’s highly possible.
Regardless, he is ultimately holding up a mirror to our selves.
Lisk, it’s not about the label, it’s about you the person.
Many people here are all about the label, find out what you are and empower yourself
Pay no mind to others, you see their duplicity
Je sais, Julie.
I make it quite evident that it is not about the label for me.
As for paying no mind, I appreciate your sentiment.
However, I believe you might agree that sometimes it is important to openly pay mind to others, as you originally did in this thread.
Even if it does not effect change in the person in question, even if the absolute right thing to do when recognizing a narc and/or narc behavior is to GOSO, it can be useful to validate the same suspicions that others may have. Your paying mind was quite useful for me, anyway.
I agree that Julie does not need to apologize for her opinion about the blog being polluted with things other than narcissism. I have had the same thoughts and have no onjection about that OPINION, but it bears repeating that HG allows what we see and has acknowledged that he prunes it back. So if you see it, it didn’t get pruned and that is up to him -not us.
What I did object to was using that annoyance to announce someone a narcissist and present them as a dangerous manipulator which I found a bit dramatic or histrionic (that being amusing since Julie threw in histrionic to Lorelei as well). I did not realize though that people did not accept the results of HG’s Empath Detector as determinative. That surprised me and has given me some thought. In that case an apology would not be required. However, when Julie said that she does not apologize because it shows weakness and leaves her open to manipulation and control. Julie is afraid of big bad Lorelei? I think not.
So in summary:
Opinions are one thing and accusations are another. We should be careful not to confuse the two, and when giving an opinion we should own it. Julie could have just said blog pollution annoyed her (Lorelei is not the first or only person that others have charged with that) instead of applying the dangerous narcissist label while stating concern for new people to the blog. That act itself could have had the same effect on new people here as HG regularly interacts with Lorelei. Did you all miss the comment where I noted that he would not interact with the same regularity and in the same way with Lorelei aa he does with the narcissists who fly in? He approved that comment but I guess people took that to mean something else. He also approved that I said opinions are fine but that no one should be deciding how the blog should be run. Yes, that includes me, so I give opinions but I don’t start throwing out labels at people just because they annoy me. We are all guests in HG’s house – if we don’t like the rules or the guests we are free to leave.
In summary NA, check your own hypocrisy. It could backfire. I’m glad that we made you change your mind about Julie having to apologize by bringing up K’s inability to accept the results of the Empath Detector test and apologize for accusations. I’m done arguing in this thread. We can all move on. I’ll just send a reply to Getting There tonight because I am going to have a busy day. 😘
MP
You didn’t make me change my mind. I said I was re-evaluating with new information. You have a problem interpreting what is actually there to what you think it means. This has caused a problem for you previously with regard to discussion with me and you have acknowledged and apologized to me for it, so it is fact and not a supposition.
NA I also didn’t realize there was question in the crowd re HG’s empath detector being reliable.
Julie & Lisk , do you consider the narc detector also fallible then?
NA
The new information being , that the accuracy of HG’s empath detectors is questioned by some commenters?
Or did I miss something?
Pls reply as I’m trying to make sure I’m following .
Woke
Correct. That being confirmed via HG or the ED test is not accepted by some.
Yes, repeated behaviors are key. People lie you know.
Yes, we’re all aware people lie. Pity that some don’t know they are – to them it’s just their version of the truth.
Your truth or mine.
I live my truth daily, it has served me well.
JulieP
I was not referring to you as a liar. Narcissists lie and believe it’s their truth. I have not called you a narcissist here, although apparently you don’t see it as a problem if people do. I have stated that I agree with people (including you) having opinions about pollution on the blog. It has been my opinion also but it’s HG’s blog to control that so I leave it alone. You didn’t and no problem. Where you fucked up royally was with your dramatic unveiling of Lorelei as a dangerous, manipulating, narcissist and you know it. Your narc trait of pride is getting in the way of you acknowledging that you might be wrong and have jumped the gun. We all make mistakes. There has been a lot of noise here on all sides because that act of accusation has people divided and we don’t need to be. It’s obvious some people want a Julie P vs NA battle royale due to both their past issues and a dislike of my presence here on the blog. It’s childish and transparent. If enough people don’t want me here on the blog they can state it openly instead of trying to make you their solution to my removal. If you have the skills that you say you do, you can see where this is happening as it’s pretty transparent. You’ve been around awhile and have seen me here in other than this situation. You’re not stupid, and if people think you are going to be less direct than me they have a surprise coming according to your previous post. I just think what you did in pointing that finger was a mistake and more dangerous for newcomers than noise pollution. That it was a mistake. You like direct and I have been direct. You also called me garbage. I’ll take the garbage out now.
HG, It doesn’t hurt if I don’t value it, it’s peaceful and calm. My world is back to normal. I could never be a part of something where women treated each other like that. Its wrong on many levels, I had to know what you valued.
It had to end and end it did. For that I am grateful.
Well there’s your pity play you wanted to see in yourself Julie
Quite a grand exit
Bye Felicia
And so that’s what it was!!
She was jealous of HG’s attention to Lorelei
Ugh so obvious but I missed it
Woke, all tests have a degree in which they may not 100% be accurate.. Take the Myers Briggs and you can get different responses. Psychopath test isn’t 100% accurate.
I can be honest in answering questions or I can chose what perception to answer them in.
We cannot use these tests as leverage over people if they chose to show abusive and destructive behaviours on this site.
Lorelei is well aware of her behaviours, her manipulations and aww i just had a bad day…. queue the million fake stories she spits at you…just don’t work on me. Remember do you know where she really works? Do you know her real full name, has she been in jail? Does she take medication? is she who she says she is?
You can chose to believe her, that is your prerogative.
Julie
We don’t know those things about you either, so why should we accept your assertion that someone is a dangerous manipulator and narcissist?
You do need to believe me, what does HG say there is not such thing as a sex addict they’re are narcissist? Let’s apply that knowledge. What is a narcissist?
Need for attention, grandiosty, lack of empathy, risky behavior, sense of entitlement
She checks alot of that for me, as I don’t know her, it’s much easier for me see the behaviour.
Julie
People have noted here in this thread those same things about you. Now what? Are you a dangerous manipulator and narcissist?
NA I expected alot more intelligence from you.
Some people can seem.superior because they have degrees, or because they have traveled. Or live in another county.
Or because they have suffered the same abuse.Or because they study psychology and believe in a particular theory.
Again there is a danger in black and white thinking,
Emapths are under the same scrutiny, they cheat, the lie, the hate, they project. Because they believe in love they are some how above this, no way ….they are accountable for their own mistakes, failures and behavior.
That is psychology.
I told you I am accountable for mine.
I apologised to Lisk for not being there, that was the right thing to do, I’m not apologising to appease someone else.
There is a difference between between standing up what you believe in and narcissitc grandiosity, one is malignant and pervasive
Julie
I agree with all of that. I just don’t understand why you can’t read that back and accept it as applying to you also.
It does apply to me I wrote it
NarcAngel
It doesn’t apply because she has no insight or awareness.
K
I don’t know that that’s true K. It can also be marc traits full out with pride hijacking honesty and decency.
NarcAngel
You could be absolutely right.
NA – this is what I was looking for also, but the word salad, revision of history, the blatant contradictory statements (see the “humble” example) the grandiose statements, along with what started the whole thing- the unprovoked attack on Lorelei (and it WAS an attack) – and the brick wall without one single inch to give—-I just can’t see it. Even super empaths don’t do that for a WEEK straight without the tiniest bit of give.
If it’s narc traits hijacking….where is the clue to that, instead of the other option? Genuinely asking!
Woke
I’m no expert, but like I said in my previous comment, if they are not a narcissist there will be evidence of authentic empathy. If you detect empathy but there are periods of narcissistic behaviour, that can indicate an empath with higher narc traits. If those traits are brought to the fore, they can appear as narcissists, but it will be for a short period and they will revert back to balance and display empathy. In this case the window for observation was very small, and therefore I left the possibility open that the narcissistic trait of pride may have hijacked the other empathic traits. The comment that I made about SE’s had nothing to do with superiority as some thought. It was to remind people that narcissistic behaviour is possible from an empath (especially an SE), and that it is just as important to look for what is NOT there as it is to list the behaviours that are. You will notice that I never called Julie a narcissist. I was actually giving her the benefit of the doubt. Imagine that.
NA- I don’t have to imagine- the entire time and (even now I’m open to) seeing something to indicate it wasn’t what I was thinking . I need these skills IRL
Ok thx for the reply.
Woke, I dont know if we’ll get an answer or not but I think we have to let it go. I’m 100% with you on this. I saw no evidence this was a case of pride. Her interactions even with her supporters had no real emotion in it. We’ve got to trust ourselves. Those that came in the middle and the end didn’t fully experience it. Remember what it’s like trying to explain your ex’s behavior to someone that hasn’t experienced it? I agree with what you said to SMH. You can’t just read the comments and get an accurate understanding of what happened.
I hope you’re ok and that tomorrow is a better day for all of us.
It’s cool, Mercy and WoF. It is true that I wasn’t here for the kerfuffle. Sometimes I do not see posts so I look at the most recent comments. It was by chance that I came across this. Just adding a bit of snark and I did really think that Lorelei handled it well. I don’t have any reason to get involved, though. Done my bit!
SMH, I was trying to reply to your other comment but lost the message. It’s getting hard to reply on this thread. I’m glad to hear you’re doing well and the hoover scare was just a scare. You don’t need that coming back around. I had another hoover which turned into some legal stuff and now Im kind of stuck. I’m NC though. I figured if I’m needed the lawyers know how to get a hold of me.
The Julie situation was pretty intense. Educational to say the least. I support different opinions but I don’t support attacks. I know we are all looking at it from our own perspective. I feel like HGs contrariwise sums up what it felt like for me.
Mercy, Legal stuff? Was that part of the hoover? I am sorry to hear about it but it doesn’t sound like it knocked you off your path – you are strong and determined. And your kitchen must be done by now! 🙂 How does it look? Any dates yet? I had a thing back in August but had to end it because the guy was too needy and mapping out every minute of every week into the future. I felt badly about it because he was nice and we had a lot in common but I felt suffocated. No wonder I liked MRN – no emotions!!
Maybe I’ll read all the comments again if I have time later in the week. I was really responding to the tone more than anything else, and some surprises I guess. I often feel here like there are histories I am not privy too or I don’t remember things because I do walk away so easily while other people are stewing about something – maybe even something I said! I guess that’s what got me – a lot of people seem to have these long ass memories for every single slight, so it was more about all the background noise. I noticed obsessiveness and paranoia more than the facts of whatever happened.
SMH, I can’t say much but the skinny of it is the IPPS reached out for help after being “injured”. I took her to the hospital and a few days later BS was arrested. He is out but waiting for trial. His charges are serious and if convicted will spend time in prison. She is standing by him. My part is witness. It’s ugly and I wish I wouldn’t have played with fire because now I’m legally stuck.
So I chuckled about being done with the kitchen. I decided I didn’t want the concrete countertop so I did epoxy over it. It turned out beautiful. I still have my pantry to finish but ive got some pretty detailed plans for it and don’t want to start till I can devote my time to it. I’m thinking after Christmas.
No dates, I’m still not ready but I have no regrets about that. I’m sorry to hear about your guy. You are very independent so it’s going to take a special kind of guy to catch you. You sound like you are doing well though.
I wouldn’t bother reading the comments. They are so all over the place and out of order (kinda like a narc relationship 😃). It’s hard to see the build up. Basically Lorelei is a narc, were all dumb for interacting with someone so dangerous, we talk about stupid shit, we don’t know how to use a credit card and lorelei is a sex addict. Oh and Julie’s perfect and dates famous people. That’s what I took from it. Haha there might be some other stuff in the middle.
Take care.
Mercy, Yikes. That is a tough position to be in. I know how hard it would be to resist helping IPPS, so I do not blame you for doing that at all. But I can see how you wish you hadn’t. Is BS a Lesser? I could have had my Lesser ExH arrested once. I didn’t but that is when I began the journey to leave him. Maybe IPPS will come to her senses too but I am sorry you have to be on call as a witness.
Yes I am very independent and also kind of an avoidant, I discovered! (Well, I kinda knew this.) But nice guy really was over the top and he knew it too. Other women had pushed him away as well. We met up last month to talk about it so it ended alright. I wouldn’t mind being friends and seeing what develops but he is unable to moderate, so if I reach out again, it might look like I am leading him on.
I am glad you are pleased with your countertop! I can’t do anything with mine, I discovered. Even waxing it does nothing. Maybe next year I will replace it on my own dime – it’s a rental but I will probably be here forever and I don’t think the lls would mind.
Thanks for the tips on/summary of the comments. There are more in my inbox (the longest running thread ever!).
It is good to talk to you again and I hope you have a very Happy Thanksgiving!
SMH….RE: Countertops
There are “countertop replacements” that just slip right over the exisitng countertop so the whole thing does not need to be replaced. 35 years in property management and a girl picks up these little gems along the way. 🙂
Kim e, Great tip! Thank you! But how does the new countertop then sit flush with the sink? I thought of putting countertop contact paper over it but I am sure that would be a big mess even if I did it properly. Then I thought of painting it – there are kits for that – but that might be too big a job for me and again might not work even if I do it properly. It’s just an 8 foot or so slab with a double sink in the middle, so it shouldn’t be too expensive to replace, but if I could put something over it, that would be better.
SMH,
You would still have to have the “slip on” countertops installed. Not something you could do yourself. Google them.
Kim e, won’t happen until next year anyway but I will look into it. Also called overlays, yes? Can probably get a handyman to do it.
I could feel your intention, that’s why I was sure to say I’m not criticizing – -I agree Lorelei did awesome , the whole thing WAS great entertainment and I’m glad I had some tie to myself this week and didn’t miss it lol
Sincerely glad you found it entertaining WAF :)!
Mercy
I’m totally fine. I learned from previous experience here , to make sure my barriers are up and I’m fully grounded in LT before I read comments here
I notice I’m waaaay more grounded in LT just in general in life since I went bare minimum contact w my kids’ dad, and even more so since I went total NC from my MMR.
I have no narcs in my life . Maybe for the first time ever. I hadn’t realized how up in ET they keep you just in general. I know now bc the difference in my internal state is drastic
Woke,
Haha I laughed at your comment to SMH. Awesome might be pushing it too far I think 😃
I’m happy for you for being narc free. My kid’s dad is also a narc. Once they got to an age that they could make their own decisions I stopped talking to him all together. I think the last time we spoke was at my daughter’s wedding 3 years ago. My second narc has been harder to get past.
It’s amazing how clear our thoughts are when we’re not among the craziness. When all of that clutter is out of our head it’s so much easier to apply logical thinking. I’m grateful to HG for teaching me how to identify when ET is clouding my judgement. It’s helped me in so many ways.
HG you have lost me I am done. I belong in the real world I do not belong here and never will.
Whatever game you.were playing it worked for a week, I’m better than this, and always will be
Hi Julie,
I don’t know if you will still see this but I just want to say thank you for staying true to yourself.
I hope that this doesn’t creep you out but out of curiosity I looked you up in Facebook and I can honestly say that all of your posts and pictures show a very beautiful woman who also exudes kindness in her eyes. I do not detect lack of empathy at all in your pictures. You also have a wonderful life and you obviously have achieved for yourself. You were not being grandiose when you stated those things about yourself because they are true. You have the right to be proud of what you have achieved in your life. You are admirable and I can totally see why HG encouraged you to participate more in the blog. I am guessing it was during your consultations with him or when you posted some comments here. You are so sharp and fearless. I can also understand how someone who is very busy in her life and doesn’t have time to be a frequent commenter here might be compelled to voice out her observations but your strong and direct personality have offended people. Being called a narcissist is really not the worst thing in the world. I think that being bullied and called names is much more hurtful. But you are an amazingly strong woman and you have a lot going for you in real life so I’m not worried about you at all. All the best to you and just like what my good friend here told me before, keep shining!!!
NarcAngel,
Can we back up just a second. I know wanting an apology is pointless at this point but that doesn’t mean we have to accept it as being ok behavior. We just have to accept that we’re not going to get one. I don’t really care if Julie doesn’t trust HGs ED as being accurate. The real issue is that without any introduction, she jumped into the middle of a pleasant conversation, pointed her finger at one of us and said you are narcissist and the rest of you need to stay away from her because she’s dangerous. Everyone has a right to their opinions but do we just excuse someone that uses the word opinion as a guise to be disrespectful, rude and disruptive? Narcissistic are soooo good at finding that one little tiny thing that makes us doubt our convictions and empaths are soooo good at using that tiny doubt as an excuse for unexceptionable behavior. Next WE’LL be apologizing.
I guess my point is that I know there will be no apology, but not believing the accuracy of HGs ED is an excuse.
He engages with her as she is easily lead..simply as that.
Claire:
“ Yes, a healthy amount of some banter and jokes brings some positivism, you are correct that some individuals are stepping over the line and engage the other readers and HG with their non sense – examples are what they had for lunch, what they had bought online.
Fair enough maybe they lack friendship IRL but this blog is not about their whereabouts.”
But who are you to say? It’s HG’s blog. Some readers don’t feel that way, some may— but it’s up to HG to determine that . And he’s already said he prunes as necessary.
It’s not up to any of us to make that decision.
It’s not about lacking friends IRL (that’s a dig, by the way , intentional or not)
Claire’s thoughts have been validated. Period.
If you believe that I am a self aware narcissist. Then I must be a greater.
HG just spat out his protein shake.
Where is the evidence to reflect this? What power or control am I having over you.
None, you bang on all by yourself.
The truth is I have an insecure attachment style brought on by childhood trauma, that has allowed me to build a sufficient defence mechanism to withstand any more abuse.
My intuition knows when I am being manipulated and I call that behaviour out, simple as that.
Take or leave it. Your opinions matter none.
Yes, most definitely tests are not accurate, be it MBTI or Enneagram. I can’t tell you how many mistype on the Enneagram. But the key is to read it and see what resonates with you.
I went on here and I don’t even recall what I wanted to respond to. Fuck. Oh, right. We are all Mid Rangers. All of us, lurking, hiding, probing, demanding.
I had a narcy day today. I did some shopping and bought what I wanted and had a nice Saturday purchasing wine, tea, salsa, a candle and beads. Weird arrangement but it was all about me, me, me!
I have mentioned before that I think the Enneagram is one of the deepest tests there is, albeit it is still theory but can be a great guide into your personality.
I just learned there is an Emily Dickinson biopic. A pal is getting it for me. It stars Miranda from Sex and the City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3SyPbUTEeU&fbclid=IwAR0htskELu9uPKCNX2x_xEgd1prj9fPfwSzFAOrdBrroQLhocLGaeUcBPPQ
Emily: Enneagram 5w4
I believe HG is a 3 with balanced wings of 2 and 4. I see a lot of 3w4.
Bibi: 4w5 with strong 3 wing.
I have suspected NA to be an 8w9.
Just sayin’. It’s fun, yo!
Bibi,
I find Enneagrams, horoscopes, Myers-Briggs, I Ching readings—are all highly valuable for that very resonating reason.
I would never poo-poo any of that as I am a Jungian at heart.
And so my reason for valuing and respecting the Detector but not buying lock, stock, and barrel every “detection” that HG’s instrument determines.
I do not see how this is such big news that we might question something that HG says or does, especially when, ultimately, we are being taught here to question anything/everything a narc says and does and even to consider that they extensively tell lies.
Understandable but remember I have access to more information than you do, a much greater level of expertise and there isa particular framework utilised so the NDC etc are entirely accurate but I understand maintaining a healthy scepticism with regard to other matters.
Still waters run deep. What HG values run deep. Who knows him enough to know what all he values, truly. He is an Ultra. Many can not do what he does with such a diversity of people of all walks of life, and races and countries and dynamics and personalities and coping styles. Both positive and negative. Many would run for the hills and could not last a month in his shoes. (I am being expansive and graceful for granting them one month). So, many of us applaud you, HG Tudor. I hope you start posting agains soon. But, whatever you need, is good with many of us. ~~~PSE
Julie
Thank you for the example you set as a strong empath standing up for truth. You were like a Viking taking on several opponents at one time, and doing it calmly, logically, and gracefully. You were never rude like they were, and they never debated your point, they only went after you. I got something good out of it anyway, and the point you brought up opened my eyes too. I hope you will change your mind and stay on as we need more like you and less like the others. That being said, I think I’m ready to brush the dirt off my shoes from here too. But please know, your time here wasn’t wasted. You could’ve actually gone a bit farther with your assertions with your opponents, but there would’ve been no use in it anyway.
Mommypino,
That was a beautiful sentiment you wrote to Julie. Thank you for taking the time to do it, as I certainly appreciated reading it.
Thank you Kel. Your sentiment for Julie was beautiful as well.
You wrote a nice note here, kel.
I did not notice Julie being rude, but got a little confused by some accusations towards her (and me and MommyPino) and no longer had the energy to wade through all the posts to gather evidence of what Julie (or I or MommyPino or whoever) was *not* doing in order to write a compare/contrast essay. Like you said, there would have been no use anyway.
All that to say, I trust your judgement and appreciate your speaking up.
Hi NA,
I’m not agreeing with Julie that Lorelei is a narcissist but I am just wondering why is it important for Julie to apologize? It is her opinion and why would her opinion affect Lorelei or any of us?
“ Leaving your initial opinions aside, the inability to stand up and recognize the fact that you were wrong, and to apologize with regard to that instance alone, jeopardizes/negates any claim of any supposed championing or standing up for others (concern for people new to the blog for example) claimed at the outset and exposes your initial intent as fraudulent. ”
K has accused me of being a narcissist directly. A few days after my mom died and I was in the Philippines without my family while O was grieving she was badgering me on the Ed thread that I was a manipulator and a liar and that I gaslighted her. I have apologized for overreacting just like empath007 mistakenly thought that HG called empath’s idiots because he said that some actions were idiocy, my ET also thought that I was indirectly called a tattletale asshole by K and overreacted. I have apologized for my overreaction several times and acknowledged it while I was grieving for my mom’s death but K kept on badgering that I am a liar and a manipulator and she was saying that they were facts. I explained that a certain statement that she said that I made was misunderstood because English is my second language and my English skills are not that good but she said that I was gaslighting her. For several days I was bullied and I have reacted badly when she was calling WokeAF a spineless something (I can’t remember exactly) which I guess made people think that I deserved all of it and even confused WokeAF that I may indeed be a narcissist and had her also insinuating to me with sarcasm that I am a narcissist. WokeAF apologized to me but K never did. Someone bought an Empath Detector for me (which I paid back) and HG said in the detector that I am an empath and not a narcissist. K has directly accused me of being a narcissist after that. HG has put a stop to it and said that K, WokeAF and myself are all empaths. Did K apologized? No she didn’t. She disappeared from the blog and had people here (including me) worrying that she might not be ok. She came back with everyone (including me) being thankful that she’s back and everyone including myself pretended that nothing happened. She still never apologized to me or WokeAF. And nobody here cared.
Then in the Audio Consultation thread K was insinuating that Esther is a narcissist because Esther happened to have the audacity to question and argue with HG. Instead of attacking the validity of Esther’s statements, K attacked Esther by insinuating that she is a narcissist. I defended Esther and K said that I am giving her a malign hoover. K continued to insinuate that I am a narcissist even though she is well aware of the result of my Empath Detector from HG. I asked K questions which all ‘bounced’ as WokeAF puts it and K just went on robotic mode of addressing ‘Readers’ and insinuating that I am a narcissist. I asked K the same questions that you now ask Julie and K just deflected. So in answer to your question NA, yes, sometimes an empath will have full conviction of a distorted view on someone and never apologize for it nor soften and have no empathy on that person at all. The question is does it really matter what someone believes about you? K has a distorted opinion on me; I can live with that. I have an opinion about her too and I’m entitled to that as well. Julie has every human right to have her opinion just as K does. And just like K, Julie should not be forced to apologize for something that she really believes. It seems like she really believes it just like you guys believe that there is no clique here at Narcsite. We are all entitled to our own perceptions and we can’t force someone to alter their perception because we think that it is inaccurate. We can only offer our point of view or evidence to the contrary and it’s up to that person to accept it or not.
MommyP
The short answer to your question is that an opinion is different than an assertion or accusation. Yes she has the right to an opinion as everyone does. In this case there was no interaction or backstory between Lorelei and Julie as there was with you and K that could be interpreted as a miscommunication or a moment of high ET that a lot of us watching thought would be worked out between you. You and I had a couple of instances after all and we resolved it. The expectation for you and K to eventually come to an understanding was the same (at least for me). Julie appeared and out of the gate asserted to everyone that Lorelei was a narcissist and a dangerous manipulator which seemed unnecessary alarm since most of Lorelei’s comments are to HG. Her motive given was that she was standing up for and protecting others rather than just saying Lorelei’s comments simply annoyed her which I felt would have been more honest and less dramatic.
Also, for the record, I do think you were owed an apology once you had been confirmed as an empath just as I do in this case. We can opine all we want but I accept HG’s answer as determinative because he is the expert here. That is the reason I initially refrained from being involved in this thread (also because I believe Julie was entitled to her opinion but it was mixed with accusation and I wanted to see if that could be worked out or she would re examine her stance. The memory of that happening to you, having it repeated here, and questioning if that practice would continue prompted me to speak up so that hopefully it would not. Note that I did say that I was not making the determination that Julie was a narcissist.
I apologized to you even though you misunderstood what I meant in those instances, so it is certainly my opinion that it I think it is even more of a responsibility to do so when you have been found to be mistaken or proven wrong.
Thank you NA. I appreciate that you think I am owed an apology but we all know I will never get it so I don’t expect it at all.
I just want to start that whatever I am going to say here is just my pure opinion and not meant as an attack to anyone.
I am just fascinated at the zealousness of people making Julie reconsider her opinion or assertion but look away when K has called me a narcissist or a liar or a manipulator several times. WokeAF did fiercely defended me and got called names by K. Julie hasn’t called WokeAF names unless I missed it. I think that Julie has been addressing questions and yes she does fight back with barbed remarks but it’s not like she wasn’t getting attacked by several people to put her armor up. Commenters here are so shocked about the ‘bounce’ and yet they are silent about K doing the same behaviors. Is is because K is part of the in group while Julie isn’t? K in my opinion was actually worse because before our fight she knew that I went to the Philippines without my family to take care of my dying narcissist mom. She knew that my mom died under my care. They ask Julie why hasn’t she softened. I can ask the same thing, why hasn’t K softened knowing what I was going through and after I apologized? Maybe I should start doing a copy and paste of K’a behaviors here as well with what she did to empath007 and from the Audio Consultation thread and have these commenters analyze K and practice on K and hone their dissecting skills. Would they apply the same rigor in crucifying Julie or will they pretend that they didn’t see it?
MommyP
I’ve explained that people likely (well I can speak for myself) did not get involved because of the hope that as HG usually says: “you could work it out yourselves”. That didn’t happen and it has been reflected on, so when it happened again here it was addressed, but not right away as was the same in your case. It was noted that many people stayed out of this at first, but perhaps it being a repeat of what happened with your case, they did not allow it to go on as long. I’m sorry you did not get the closure you wanted, and to be honest, it seems you are using a bit of a pity play here in wanting to rehash your issue to bring attention to it once again and mention that it was around the time of your mothers death. Plenty of people were kind about that. It was hard to understand why you stayed invested in the arguments on the blog if her death was affecting you so deeply. Poor me, no one stood up for me (untrue), poor me, my mother died when I was arguing about it (well stop arguing and leave the blog), poor me, Julie and Lorelei are getting the attention I deserved. You got plenty of attention during that time so don’t act like everyone turned their back. You were not shy to point fingers on matters when you were ,wrong also. I said I thought you should have an apology but that’s not enough for you. You accuse of “cliques” but I notice it was okay when people backed you on something. That wasn’t considered a “clique”. You even turned on someone who backed you previously over a comment about Trump ffs. Careful not to wallow or use pity too much – Julie has already explained she does not approve of that. I back her on that.
I don’t think you’re a narcissist but cut the shit with the pity party.
NarcAngel
Just to be very clear, individuals who play the victim (by repeatedly ignoring their contribution to the situation and claiming they were attacked) gas light, blame shift, lie, project, triangulate and use pity plays to deflect form their behaviour do not get apologies.
If an individual claims to have gotten an ED and passed with flying colors but their behaviour belies that claim then I don’t find it credible.
Red Flag: the use of the words: acquiesce and clique.
K
I noted elsewhere that originally I felt an apology is apt where someone uses the term narcissist and it is found to be mistaken given the outcome of the Empath Detector as positive. I now know that people do not necessarily accept that despite HG saying it is designed not to be manipulated. That has me re-evaluating.
If you don’t mind, NA, please do expand on your re-evaluation. I am interested in your analysis.
Mommypino,
“Would they apply the same rigor in crucifying Julie or will they pretend that they didn’t see it?”
In referencing the conversation in the above quotation – I am not going to assume who specifically you mean by those who “pretend that they didn’t see it” but I will speak up because I feel some accountability.
I couldn’t accurately follow the WokeAF/K/Mommypino back and forth at that time while it was happening – and trying to go back in the conversation as it was progressing. And when there is so much noise – it begs considering how useful it is to add to that noise. All I took away from it was that it was horrific to read the interaction between *known* Empaths yet, quite a learning exercise on the tenacity of truth-seekers.
This time, I’m trying to keep up as it plays out – and speaking up because I don’t want to see the same kind of horror play out again – however, I don’t believe that all involved this time are *known* empaths.
NA, would you be willing to clarify your question regarding why Mommypino came on the site during and after her mom’s death? I read that one way but assumed that you didn’t mean it in the negative way I read it.
I can’t speak for Mommypino but I can see myself using this site as a support group through hard times, even when I am quiet. Also I see this place as a distraction at times when I need one to quiet my mind or heart. It would be my assumption that the empaths would recognize that at times the emotional strain we are trying to ignore still plays out in reactive comments, right or wrong. I just reacted to someone due to a situation with which he wasn’t involved. I felt safe to react, but I was wrong to use him as my outlet. I can be wrong but I can see others thinking of this place in a similar way. Some come here during divorces which is another type of death. This is why I usually assume people comment in a way not due to being narcissists but due to the situation of which is going on in their world.
You are very supportive of individuals going through a hard time, so I was not comfortable with my initial read and hoped you could clarify.
Hi Getting There
I was referring to the fact that during the time MP was caring for her mother and over the period of her death, instead of focusing on that, she continued to engage in a battle over whether or not she was a narcissist. I know for certain that narcissistic tendencies and traits were asserted but I cannot remember if she was specifically named a narcissist. Regardless, the implication was there. She did not believe this to be true so could have disregarded it at that time if her priority was the care of her mother but she did not. Her choice, but then do not keep bringing up that this “happened” during this period. It didn’t “happen” to her, she “engaged” and continued to breathe life into it. She was advised by others to disregard it and focus on the care of her mother, her family, and herself. There was care and concern about her during this period and it was relayed, but she portrays it as being all alone. I expressed my condolences on her mothers death and it was genuine. There is no question of someone getting support here. That was never in question with regard to her mother.
The question she raised here is valid with regard to why this issue was reacted to differently than hers. I attempted to explain why that might be and offered if she was directly called a narcissist as was the case here, that I believe an apology is apt. So I answered but that was not enough. She then proposed copy and pasting things from the thread that involved her to here. No. Jesus. Enough.
She has always asserted cliques when people have not agreed with her stance instead of realizing that there might just be like-minded people and that is offensive, but she doesn’t care when that has been explained and continues to use it and I see that as a pity play.
Hope that answered your question.
NarcAngel, your response to Getting There is full of inaccuracies. I would like to address them.
“ I was referring to the fact that during the time MP was caring for her mother and over the period of her death, instead of focusing on that, she continued to engage in a battle over whether or not she was a narcissist. ”
“She was advised by others to disregard it and focus on the care of her mother, her family, and herself. “
-Both incorrect. My mom was already dead when K started to attack me. While I was caring for my mother, I think that I went to the blog only once or twice to give advice to a new commenter that was attacked by several old commenters here because she had a fight with you. She told you to stop interacting with her because she said that you were giving her bad vibes. I felt bad for her so even though I didn’t defend her I gave her an advice. I may have posted a few other comments but I was not engaged in any debates or arguments as my time on the internet was short because I only checked in here after my chat with my family in the US at the laundromat while waiting for my laundry. So don’t make it sound like I was prioritizing an argument here over the caring of my mom because that is really disingenuous and makes me question your integrity.
“ She did not believe this to be true so could have disregarded it at that time if her priority was the care of her mother but she did not. Her choice, but then do not keep bringing up that this “happened” during this period. It didn’t “happen” to her, she “engaged” and continued to breathe life into it. ”
-Again this is incorrect. I asked WokeAF to stop respond to K but WokeAF asked me to trust her because she wanted to get to the bottom of it. WokeAF intervened and continued to breathe life into it. There was nothing that I could do because WokeAF is an adult who made her own choice to keep engaging because it was important for her to seek the truth. When K first dissected my comments and associated them with narcissistic traits, it didn’t bother me and I gave her a diplomatic answer and even said that we all have narcissistic traits because we’re human. I was not aware that for a couple of days WokeAF and K were having an argument because WokeAF was defending me from K. So your version of the story is highly inaccurate. Are you rewriting history? Are you now putting me on trial again to protect your friend K? To be quite honest your previous comment to me was asinine and abusive but I tolerated it because I thought that you were just high on ET. What are you afraid of?
MP
People can read MP. Are you saying if tgey went to that thread they wouldnt see many posts of you actively participating in that debate? Or they wont see anyone telling you to disregard what was happening and to take care of yourself or focus in what’s important? And here you are again with the clique accusation. I dont know K anymore than you. Another play for pity in that you’re not part of some clique and being ganged up on. Nonsense. Why do you think HG said what he said that irked you? He was noting your behaviour. Is he in some clique too?
NarcAngel
You’ve been gas lighted; welcome to the club.
I missed this response earlier.
“ Are you saying if tgey went to that thread they wouldnt see many posts of you actively participating in that debate? Or they wont see anyone telling you to disregard what was happening and to take care of yourself or focus in what’s important?”
I am saying that you screwed up the timeline to make it look like I wasn’t taking care of my mom because I was too busy defending myself here on the blog. My mom was already dead when K started accusing me. I was in her wake. I was unaware that WokeAF and K were having an exchange because I was too busy with funeral matters so I didn’t go online for a couple of days and K was already saying abusive language to WokeAF and saying that I am a liar and a manipulator. You can rewrite it all you want but you’re only going to fool someone with a weak mind.
“ Why do you think HG said what he said that irked you? He was noting your behaviour. Is he in some clique too?”.
Uhhh I don’t know 🤷♀️. Do you think I can read his mind? Can you read HG’s mind? All that he said is “We’ll see.” When I told him that I am giving it a rest. He was noting my behavior is nothing but your guess.
I remember seeing K authoritatively state that HG cannot reveal the narcissists because the rules prevent him. I was wondering how is she privy to the? Well apparently she just made a guess because HG said that no one knows what they are. She sounds like she knows everything though. I don’t try to pretend that I know what I don’t.
MP
If all HG said was “We’ll see” in response to you saying you would give it a rest, why were you irked?
“ I’m sorry you did not get the closure you wanted, and to be honest, it seems you are using a bit of a pity play here in wanting to rehash your issue to bring attention to it once again and mention that it was around the time of your mothers death”
If you consider bringing up factual support to an assertion as pity plays then everyone her who has told their stories of abuse are using pity play. I don’t need nor want anyone’s pity. If I really want pity, then how come during those times that I was taking care of my mom and after she died, you didn’t see me long overdrawn posts about how hard it is to take care of her (poor me), I miss my family I am alone in my home country (poor me), I am staying at my Lesser mom’s cockroach infested house to take care of her because I’m such a martyr (poor me). In fact, whenever I was at the blog, I rarely spoke about my personal struggles at that time unless someone asked and I came to the blog to answer questions, give advice and give my opinions on the BLL. Why would anyone do that? Because I was overwhelmed. This blog was a distraction. I was trying to escape my reality that’s why I came to the blog at that time to give advice to other people’s problems and to give my opinions on the BLL which entertained me and gave me levity. You can try to shame me for that but there’s no shame for being an imperfect human. I make stupid decisions from time to time and that’s ok.
I am not trying to bring attention to me, I’m trying to bring attention to what I see is an issue here. You can say all you want that there is no clique but somebody will always come here and mention it not because they are narcissists but because that is what they see and their perception.
I did not turn on SMH, I voiced out my disagreement with her. I honestly felt bad and hoped that I didn’t hurt her. I should have practiced more restraint. But it was too late and has escalated. It’s one of those times that I wish I kept my mouth shut. I didn’t respond to her afterwards because HG said that he knows I will still respond and that irked me and made me want to prove that he doesn’t know me so I stopped responding. I have said a couple of times or so here in that blog that I have no complete loyalty to any person, my loyalty is to my principles. I am loyal to my husband but if I see him do something wrong or I disagree with he always hear from me. It is the same with my kids, they will hear from me. They don’t have to acquiesce but they will all hear from me. If K was my friend I would have told her that she is inaccurate and she owes someone an apology if that is what I believe.
I forgot the other points that you have raised so I will get back to them when I have time again.
I don’t want this to be a battle. I’m sorry if I have irked you NA. I just want to understand.
And I just want to say thank you to Getting There.
MP
and others
HG closed the matter down on Ed Thread.
Ed Thread is Dead.
Let it RIP, please?
MP
I Don’t know if youve been following but if you trust me – leave this one with Julie alone.
She’s been flushed out . Instead of running away wounded she’s taking NA on now. Let her handle it.
As for your apology I wondered if I missed that happening.
Everybody dropped it bc K’s an empath and normally quite a supportive and valuable contribution here . I do believe that whole Ed Thread scene was an anomaly. No need to rake an empath over the coals for an anomaly, apology or no.
I’m sure you, like myself, value K’s Incredible abilities to pull up quotes, links and such to help us.
Sometimes perceived hostility triggers my
bully-button (ha! I made a funny) but What we have with Julie is a whole different can of worms
I know you’ve got a good heart and my advice would be to sit this one out and go read the entire thread as best you can. It’s jaw dropping.
💕
Welcome back, Mommypino. Selfishly I am glad to see you comment. I hope, if you choose to stay, that you find the balance between here and your life away from here. I have been working on that myself. I hope you are getting ready to enjoy the holiday season with your family. I can’t imagine what the first holiday season will be like since the death of your mom and hope you are giving yourself the peace you need.
I understand the feeling of needing for peaceful closures especially with individuals I like and respect. I hope you find peace in that as well.
Thank you Getting There! I’m so happy to talk to you again. I’m sorry that I was not initiating to talk to you because I wasn’t sure if your opinion on me has changed. I’m thankful that it hasn’t.
I am totally at peace with my mom now. I have reconciled a lot of thoughts and feelings. I’m happy that I was there for her. I don’t have any regrets. She is finally at peace and happy where she is. It does not matter what anyone else think. The fact remains that I was there for her when she needed me. She was my world for the first 26 years of my life and no matter what I will be deeply affected by her loss even though I had a lot of issues with her.
My family just finished a Star Wars marathon week. We just got the Disney Plus channel and we are loving it. You know how I feel about Disney lol.
I hope that you and your family are having a great holiday season. Happy Thanksgiving to you in case I don’t see you around Thanksgiving. ❤️
Mommy Pino! Why are you looking for closure after all the closure HG Tudor has given us on so many things. My goodness. Closure is a meal best served to those that will wait their entire life for it. Not you. That entree is too old: Closure. You know what I am thankful for these days, Mommy Pino? That certain people do not have the power to get their hands on me and to rip me to shreds. Yay!!!! I learned from HG to work on having a big goal. Just like he has Primary Aims. This works to help me know when to take a little detour if needed in order to reach my most important destination. My main goals. This is what I am reflecting on these days. So if I perceive that someone does not like me, or whatever, I take a little detour around them, whenever they are around. And then return to the main road. They can chase me, but they will not find me. I am not looking back. Even if they taunt me. They get bored after a while, anyway. I do this so that I can get back on the road again, after I detour away from them. Easy Peasy. No rolling in the dust with people any longer, Mommy Pino. Needing the last word. I had enough of that to last a lifetime and more. You are too good for this. And we all have too many more posts to evaluate together. Please do not get stuck on this page, like Woke is pleading with you. I left this page. I was only on here to reach out to Vandemboss about where are the men, and then Desiree also was talking about it with us, and then I see you on here!! lol. Please do not get stuck on this BLL and ED page. I think it is almost complete, overall, anyway. The ambulances have left already. The tents have been taken down. The police tape has been removed. The refreshments have been devoured. And the media have gone home. The last bus will be leaving soon, so please do not get stranded on here.
” I learned from HG to work on having a big goal. Just like he has Primary Aims. This works to help me know when to take a little detour if needed in order to reach my most important destination. My main goals. This is what I am reflecting on these days. So if I perceive that someone does not like me, or whatever, I take a little detour around them, whenever they are around. And then return to the main road.”
PSE: I am happy to hear you made this shift. This is a big win. Well done. You will reach your big goal.
Hi PSE, the word Closure came from NA and not me. She doesn’t speak for me. Don’t fall for the straw man argument. I do not need closure anymore and I am certainly not wallowing or seeking pity. I am just voicing out what I have observed as an inconsistency or a double standard against Julie. Julie is not narcissist.
MP, just read your experience.. onwards And upwards, don’t look back.
Hi Julie, I just want to say them at I admire your fierceness. You remind me of the Jackie Chan movies that I grew up with where he’s surrounded and the attackers couldn’t get to him. A lot of what you said resonated with me by the way regarding boundaries. It was nice to see HG’s teachings being applied by an empath.
I agree with what you said, onwards and upwards.
PSE…and lisk was also talking about it with you.
P.S. I hope MommyPino makes up her own mind as to where she hangs and how long she stays there.
P.P.S. There’s always an Uber if you miss the last bus.
“ There’s always an Uber if you miss the last bus.”
Haha so true! And I drive my own car so I don’t need to worry to fit in or catch any bus. 😊
NarcAngel,
You said to MommyPino, “I don’t think you’re a narcissist but cut the shit with the pity party.”
This strikes me as rather harsh, if not abusive.
Is that really called for in this case? Or was it a joke?
lisk
It was neither harsh nor abusive; it’s the truth.
NarcAngel recognizes a Pity Play when she sees it, unlike you.
K,
Thank you for sharing your observation.
However, I am pretty sure I addressed my question to NA. I am also quite confident she can answer for herself.
It is her intent that I am asking about.
My pleasure lisk
Your assertion re: NarcAngel was inaccurate. Your inability to recognize a blatant manipulation is stunning considering how long you have been on narcsite.
K, Please clarify: what assertion about NA did I make exactly?
lisk
It’s pretty simple. This is your statement below and it’s an assertion and it’s inaccurate.
“This strikes me as rather harsh, if not abusive.”
It did strike me as harsh and abusive, and unnecessary.
I’m not sure if that’s an assertion as much as a description of what I was sensing. Hence my request for clarification—a request for accuracy, I would say—from NA.
lisk
It was an assertion and was inaccurate. Again, your inability to recognize a blatant manipulation is absolutely stunning considering the amount of time you have been on narcsite.
It was a description of what I sensed, K.
I found NA’s words and possible intent to be harsh and unnecessarily abusive, especially given that she and others were accusing Julie of attacking Lorelei, when really all Julie was doing was describing L’s behavior here.
Before I committed to—and asserted—my opinion of NA’s own words and even behavior, I asked what her intent was. It was a real question, especially as I am not very familiar with that backstory and do not know how they have spoken to each other in the past.
lisk
Wrong. NA’s inference was accurate, whereas your assertion was inaccurate. Quite the difference.
K,
You are no HG.
I will leave it at that.
Says the idiot who can’t recognize a blatant Pity Play.
Ah, getting overtly ad hominem now.
Thank you for that, K.
I have “liked” your comment accordingly.
My pleasure lisk
Just stating a fact.
Lisk
All I was doing was describing MP’s behaviour on that thread. Except that I didn’t attach the label of narcissist.
Tell me how that is different from what Julie did.
That’s right, there is no difference except the deliverer.
NarcAngel
Lisk’s hypocritical and contradictory behaviour is not surprising.
K, NA, the only behaviour I see are 2 ladies hell bent, on tearing another person down.
You can be labelled an empath and still be a garbage person. All I have wittnessed is garbage people.
Your comment is an excellent example of Projection.
Sorry I just read all the receipts….
But people like you like to Deny and not take accountability
My post reflect logical thinking, analytical questions and empathy for others
Try again K
Julie Petkovska
More projection. No surprise there.
Still wrong
Your comment is an excellent example of your lack of insight and awareness.
I disagree with your own answers to your own questions, NA.
Given that you are not interested in actually hearing/reading my answers—-as you assume (and actually assert) that you know my thoughts—I see no real use for myself (or for anyone else’s edification) to type anything else to you after this post.
I will, however, say that I have previously noticed this question-answer pattern when you have dealt with others as well—so I do not take it personally.
You are welcome to expand but you can’t – thus the lame reply. That is why you wete happy to attach to Julie. So you could let her reply and then pump your fist in the air and let out a “hell yeah”. But where is Julie when you need her? Thats why it’s best to stand on your own conviction and raise your own issues. You mentioned somewhere else that you would likely test as CoD. If that’s true, then you should take Julie’s advice: to watch out being manipulated or controlled by people you know very little about.
Julie is in Australia time difference and HG is.just one person
Cool your jets.
It would have been more correct for me to say where are the Julies of the world when she needs them, because if it wasn’t you it would be someone else.
Lisk
I covered this in my reply to Getting There. Harsh and abusive? What happened to you admiring people who are direct and unafraid to speak their mind? Do you mean only those that you approve of and align yourself with?
NarcAngel
Entirely accurate.
NarcAngel
You know what I love about the blog; the share laziness of some of the commenters. It makes wonder if certain individuals actually take the time to thoroughly read the articles and comments and then reflect on them.
Thank you, NA. I will look for your answer there.
I will not address your list of rhetorical questions one after the other that are meant to send a message rather than get an answer.
I will only say that I most appreciate directness when it is not laden with negative intent.
Lisk
Haha. Oh you mean like when they call a person who annoys you a narcissist so you can hang on their coattails instead of of addressing it on your own?
Your role in all of this is very transparent. You love controversy so latched onto Julie as your host.
Admire the shit out of that opinion that I am fearless to offer (just like Julie is fearless to give her opinion). But you can’t because the opinion comes from me and that’s the real problem isn’t it?
You’re an amusing little pot stirrer though and everyone sees it.
NA,
I bit my tongue for a long time on Lorelei’s behavior, before this thread ever came into being, thinking that either I could be wrong or what’s the point of saying anything.
As I mentioned somewhere above, I am happy to let someone know that they are not the only one who perceived something, especially when they are chided for their view.
Call me whatever name you want. Not everyone agrees with you. I know that for a fact.
Lisk, sorry time difference means sleep here. do not engage. I know you want to, you are correct..
You do not need to prove it.
HG
What’s that saying you’ve used here?
Those who accuse must prove?
Is that correct?
Indeed.
Hi Julie,
I do *not* want to, Julie.
I am not interested in being pulled into word twisting just because I questioned someone who was doing a similar thing to what that someone accused you of doing.
Plus, you are right—I do not need to prove anything, to anyone really.
You do not owe anyone anything, if those 2 want to engage in high school games, they can go for it, it reflects badly on them, not you.
Learning how to set clear boundaries of what is acceptable to you is key. Do not let anyone take your power away.
Some people have been on this blog for years, getting a little to comfy about there general significance.
What’s important is out there in the real world. Not here. Here is where you get HG to assist and out there is where you apply it.
JulieP
That would be great advice if you didn’t enter onto the scene banging pots loudly about dangerous predators on HG’s blog. Dangerous predator being someone who you just thought to be taking too much of HG’s attention and about shopping and yoga pants. Who was in danger exactly?
And there it is…… are you not feeling significant enough or making enough impact here? There’s no contest. People might embrace you more if you had something to offer other than labels. Try it, it might work.
I am allowed to question behaviour if I provide some evidence, it is in the frame of the site.
My opinion is valid, I made some valid points.
Also I find it interesting that I’m not allowed to point a finger but seems like others can with no consequence.
Do remember Lolita crossing a huge boundary, of revealing something that I didn’t want revealed, but that’s ok it’s all in defending some one you don’t even know lol. And you would not be friends with outside this bubble.
NA, from someone who is supposed to be the voice of reason it somehow got lost on MP, lisk and others.
Julie
Now I’m repeating myself. Yes, you (and everyone) are allowed to QUESTION behaviour. Yes, you (and everyone’s) opinion is valid and they have made some valid points. Fingers shouldn’t be pointed, but in this case you pointed first, accused, and then wonder how this hasn’t resulted? I don’t consider myself the voice of logic and reason, but they will always be lost on some people. Those people are interested in controversy, discord as a stand in for the missed chaos and hit of adrenaline that the narcissist provided, and to “win”. There is no “winning” here unless it’s applying the lessons and knowledge provided with logic over emotion, and that doesn’t mean accusing someone instead of questioning behaviour and naming it opinion. Opinion and accusation are two very different things. I know you know this.
Sometimes shopping is dangerous. Grand openings, Black Fridays, double coupon days…
People who lie, play games, and generally treat narcissistic abuse as amusement.
So says the narcissist.
Wrong try again
Wrong. Your comments are rife with evidence of your narcissistic personality disorder.
Hi lisk, I just want to say that I admire everything that you did here. You have a lot of courage and grace. This isn’t the first time that I saw you stand up for someone. Whatever school or cadre you are you are an amazingly brave person. Your courage is infectious
Hi lisk,
I just want to say that I admire your courage. This isn’t the first time I saw you stand up fiercely for someone. Whatever your empath detector results maybe you are obviously an amazingly brave person who stands up for your own convictions. Anyway, this might be a duplicate comment. My first didn’t refresh correctly si I don’t know if it will get sent. But ai just want to say that I appreciate your contribution.
Lisk, I used to think that the solution to wars and conflicts is to move all of the narcissists to a different planet and have only empaths live together. How very wrong I was. Apparently we don’t need narcissists. Empaths are so great abusing each other on their own. 🤷♀️
NarcAngel
I agree with you. A pot stirrer and fucking boring, as well.
“ You’re an amusing little pot stirrer though and everyone sees it.”
NA, you can read ‘everyone’s’ mind now too? Earlier you can read HG’s mind now apparently everyone as well. You’re obviously not grandiose.
https://narcsite.com/2017/06/05/the-paranoia-of-character-assassination-3/
You two are now bullying lisk. You think no one can see that? Why can’t you just be a grown up and accept that not everyone agrees with you on Julie. Are your lives that horrible that you have to gang up on people here to validate your self worth? How sad.
Thank you for the support, MP.
I also appreciate that you are validating what I see in terms of the bullying. I have witnessed it before, not just in this thread but in others as well.
I’m getting very sleepy so must go now . . . .
You’re most welcome lisk. I’m also glad that I’m not the only one who sees it.
lisk: I did not meant to leave you out regarding Vandemboss. So, I just came back on here to conclude with Vandemboss and Desiree and lisk, regarding men and narcississt women. As the wise proverb says, there is a wisdom in a multitude of council, and that includes giving council to MommyPino to consider. I never took an Uber, yet. And, I have never been the last one left at a party, and I just want Mommypino to get home safely, and not lose any beauty sleep.
PSE,
It looks MommyPino can take rather awesome care of herself.
Plus, nothing wrong with being last at any party, especially when there’s wine leftover 🍷
Lisk. I should have mentioned you as well and said that I came back to discuss the cadet thread with Vandenboss and Desiree and lisk and Violetta et al, regarding men and narcissistic females. Also, the wise proverbs say: that there is safety in a multitude of council, and so I gave my council to MommpPino like Woke did as well, to not get stuck in a hamster wheel. And she has given me advice before, as well. Also, I have never been the last one at a party, and I did not want MommyPino to stay on too late and miss her beauty sleep. And lastly, I still have never taken an Uber. So, I can`t make a recommendation about it. And, I may miss the entire gig economy altogether at this rate, as the gig economy is already stumbling away from the regular people that created it and so the gig economy is now being confiscated by big business and is going corporate more and more, after all. (This reply could be a duplicate of sorts. My computer glitched.)
Hi, Mommypino!
My opinion never changed about you. I still think you are such an amazing person and great to talk with on the blog! I’m sorry I didn’t interact a lot with you on other comments.
Later, I saw that you needed to leave the blog to spend time and energy on those around you, and I wanted to say goodbye but thought I was too late. I have struggled commenting as it actually kicks some of my OCD characteristics into overdrive. I have actually tried to stop commenting to help myself with that. That’s my long way of saying that I am so glad that we both commenting and that I am interacting with you again!!
I thought of you when I saw the commercial for the Mr. Roger’s movie. I also thought of you when I saw the “Drunk History” episode of how Mickey came into existence. Oh yes – I’m not surprised you have Disney streaming. LOL. What a great family activity to do that Star Wars marathon! I haven’t seen most of the ones made after the trilogy. I can imagine that there will be great holiday movies on Disney streaming that will be fun to watch as a family with hot chocolate and popcorn or cookies or both! I have watched the Christmas movies on Hallmark and that is it with holiday stuff so far. I will kick into gear this week, I hope. LOL
That’s great how you have found peace regarding your mom!! What a beautiful gift you have given yourself!
Your comment reminded me of a comment a friend made who just had what I think was a victim narcissist in her life. He came across as a Godly man. Her comment was that the struggle is real for him. That changed something in me. Some really want to be a good person and yet this thing called “narcissism” kicks in. The struggle is real for them. I believe HG sees it as death and that’s it, folks. I personally don’t agree with that, but if he is right, that too equals a type of peace.
Hi Getting There!
I wanted to reply to this much earlier but at that time my mind was on battle mode and I was unable to switch back to pleasantries mode. But I’m back to my cheery self again now. ☺️ I’m so very happy that we are communicating again. I was thinking about you and some other good people that I met here when I left.
I plan to se the Mr. Rogers movie with family on Thanksgiving school break. They are his fans. He was such a good role model and a really unique person. Not a mid ranger at all. The closest people to him, his family attests that he is the same person in real life and in public. One of his sons had a rebellion phase but not because of anything that he did as a parent but because his son struggled with the public attention and his dad’s fame and finding who he really is without being under the shadow of his dad’s legacy. It makes me think of the different ways that a child can feel lack of control without having a narcissist parent. I don’t think Mr, Rogers son became a narcissist just to be clear, but he still felt lack of control. My mother for example didn’t have a narcissist parent. But when her dad died when she was a little child, they have experienced extreme poverty which traumatized her. There are narcissists in her family tree though and my grandmother was not affectionate but she was definitely not a narcissist. It is one reason why I think HG’s lack of control environment in the development of a narcissist is groundbreaking because it doesn’t limit it to being raised by a narcissist parent. It would be interesting to see in the future in our lifetimes if there would be more studies that show findings on how narcissists are created. I think that it is important especially with the concerns that our society is getting more and more selfish and lacking in empathy towards others.
Your friend is exactly right. Narcissists struggle too and I do not envy them for being spared of the feelings of guilt and sorrow. They have different struggles. A lot of them suffer from some degree of paranoia and could not have peace of mind. My mom prayed a lot but her prayers always involved asking God to punish her enemies. In her mind, people are after her. It is such a difficult way to live and I am now happy that her imperfect earthly body is now at rest and her soul is now under God’s mercy.
Getting There, I just want to add some information that I think might be important. When Mr. Rogers’ son was rebelling or trying to find himself and distanced himself from his family, Mr. Rogers was completely supportive and didn’t make his son feel bad or guilty about it which I think is the difference between an empathic parent and a narcissist parent. And that is probably why his son didn’t become a narcissist even though he struggled with some lack of control as well, his parents allowed him to have some control. With my mom, even though both of her parents were not narcissists, my grandmother allowed my uncle’s wife to physically abuse my mom as a young child inside their house. My mom has always been rude and impolite as a little child and it irritated my uncle’s wife whom I’m sure now is a Mid Ranger so she would come to my grandmother’s house and yell at my mom for being rude to her and physically attack her like drag my mom by her hair. My grandmother was very timid and instead of protecting my mom she apologized to my uncle’s wife for my mom’s rudeness. So she was abused by a narcissist but the narcissist was not one of her parents.
Also Getting There,
I just want to add, I’m not very knowledgeable about OCD but I’m very happy that you are able to comment here again and I got to interact with you. I hope that the negativity here didn’t affect you. I’m sorry if it did. Thank you so much for standing up for me. I really appreciate it and I know it’s not easy. ❤️
Hi, NA
Thank you for being willing to clarify!! It definitely help show me that the initial read, the negative one, was not a correct read.
I am not Mommypino so I won’t try to speak on behalf of her.
I agree that she brought up a great question and see that you gave rationale from your perspective. I have seen different readers comment on the cliques and also see the responses. I used to think “can we take a moment to think why some may feel that way?” I recently Googled HG for curiosity. I found a comment on a question/ answer site. If I remember it correctly it spoke fine of HG but negatively of the comments. It made me feel bad that there may be some who don’t comment out of fear because of what possible reaction may occur. I see your point, though, in the like minded responding to each other which is normal social behavior. I read a lot here and see that there are a lot of strong individuals on here who don’t say things just to match another’s opinion but share their own thoughts. Maybe that is what is going on – the thoughts match to a certain extent. When it comes to people who disagree, though, I wonder if the view of others is that the dynamic of the like minded thoughts take a different form. Taking the situation with Julia as an example: would the reaction have been different if she never said that Lorelai was a narcissist but only pointed out the characteristics of concern? Would it have been a discussion of the traits or would there have been over 600 comments of back and forth about it? Julia brought up some concerns that I thought were fair to consider as a whole, but that got lost in the message and the reaction to the message. We will never know how it would have been if she hadn’t straight out said Lorelai is a narcissist and it isn’t fair to assume.
It isn’t fair either to look to you, NA, and say “your thought should be thrown aside because we know you will protect HG at any point or because here comes the like minded.” Unfortunately I can see some miss some of what you have to offer because of the clique perception that they may have. You cannot control what others think or do, but it is something more than Mommypino has brought up.
I also agree that when someone is wrong, they should apologize. It may help the other person more than you. Shoot, I apologize to some of the stupidest crap so I may not be the best judge on apologies. Regardless, using this situation as an example, as I don’t always agree with HG, I can see me saying to myself “well just because HG said it doesn’t mean I feel it…” If I think HG is always right in his assessments, then I would have to realize my mistake and reconcile the two.
Thank you again for clarifying and sharing!
K,
I have a great deal of respect for you and how you are with many others. With that said, when it comes to Mommypino, I struggle with your comments. I wonder how much is skewed by your own emotional thinking in what her comments brought out. I have felt that HG is wrong about Mother Theresa, Oprah, and me. There are many readers on this blog who, like me, recognize that Mommypino is an empath and that is one I won’t disagree with HG on. If you feel HG wasn’t correct, then I can see why you wouldn’t apologize.
Your comment about her use of two points to express her thoughts is exactly why I have felt this site is like the Salem Witch Trials. Terms don’t prove a narcissist. A behavior regarding a hot subject doesn’t prove a narcissist. I have even seen people comment that OCD behavior proves a narcissist. There is so much on here, and let me make it clear that it isn’t HG saying it but readers, that could make anyone think they are a narcissist just by reading how one assesses another. How many of us already first read HG’s writings and worried that it was us who was the narcissist? Empaths aren’t saints and don’t act perfect or holy. Empaths should keep each other off pedestals; we have narcissists for that.
Life doesn’t happen in a vacuum and situations of past and present play out in how we react to certain things. Many of us are less trusting of relationships due to the past ones. Is that fair to the future partner? No, but that is what happens to humans. Communication of such would help that partner understand it isn’t him specifically. That is how I see Mommypino’s comments. This site doesn’t allow for us to communicate outside of here, so unless a person shares what is happening outside here, there will be no way to know. As for Mommypino bringing it up again. She has said she did it as part of this discussion. The situations are similar, in my opinion, in that a constant commentator was called a narcissist by another even though HG says otherwise. I don’t read all comments but I don’t remember either you or Julia showing doubt of HG’s assessments before, so the lack of apology was confusing.
Getting There
I understand where you are coming from. My ET is fairly low right now and there is some obvious discord on this thread, which doesn’t bother me at all. I think we are all going to have to agree to disagree about certain things.
Thank you Getting There. I agree with you. I have expressed in the past that only HG is the expert and that is why we pay him for the evaluations. For someone who plays the victim, I really suck at it. It wasn’t me who brought up at the Ed thread that my mom passed away, it was you. Although K already knew before, the other commentators such as WokeAF didn’t know. If I was playing the victim then why didn’t I use or milk that to guilt WokeAF into not thinking that I’m a narcissist? So the accusations that I like to play the victim are inaccurate and unfair. But honestly just like what Mr. Rogers and Julie P say, it reflects more about them than me. I can totally live with that.
I was trying to say that even empaths can armor up if they feel attacked or if they have strong convictions and not apologize for those strong beliefs because doing so would be inauthentic to them. We cannot make someone change her point of view, they have to do it in their own terms and time. Maybe someday Julie will think that Lorelei is not a narcissist or maybe not. It doesn’t matter either way. It doesn’t change what Lorelei really is. I don’t understand the need to vilify someone and by proving that this person is a narcissist then it becomes ok to bully this person on the blog. Julie P was not the first person here in the blog who has accused a commenter of being a narcissist in spite of the results of the Empath Detector. She will not be the last either. Many commenters including myself have expressed in the past frustration about the witch hunting here. Victims do have narcissistic traits and the abuse even makes them stronger sometimes because they are in a fight or flight mode. And back to Julie, can we honestly think that it’s humane to make her apologize after being made fun of and attacked by several commenters? She’s already in a fight or flight mode. That window is already gone. Time to move on and there’s no need to target or attack people who agreed with Julie. Last time I checked HG allows points of view from different perspectives. Why can’t empaths have the same tolerance?
MP,
You write so eloquently about this.
I also appreciate your sharing your examples of what you had previously experienced within a certain dynamic, a similar one to what has occurred on this thread.
I do not see this sharing as making this thread about you. I see it as you helping others see that there is a pattern of abuse that has occurred or developing within the comment threads.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you lisk for understanding me. You are absolutely right about my intent or motivation for sharing.
Getting There, I hope that you get this message. It is hard to find a spot to reply and I also didn’t get an email notification of your last response although I have read it when I was scrolling down the thread. I just want to greet you a Happy Thanksgiving and I hope that you and your family will have a wonderful time. I remember that you have a son but I can’t remember if he is your only child. I hope that it will be just pure joy and no stress in your family for Thanksgiving.
Thank you for explaining OCD to me. My knowledge about it is only from movies like As Good As It Gets and the other movie and show that you mentioned. It is interesting how you described your OCD and the flavor that I think it has from the fact that you are very empathic. It made me think how the other aspects of a person’s personality affects the disorder that they have. Like if a narcissist has OCD versus a Normal versus an Empath who has OCD. It makes me want to rewatch As Good As It Gets and make a guess on whether Jack Nicholson’s character was a narcissist or a normal. From what I remember I don’t think that he was an empath. I’m glad that you can control your OCD and that it is not as severe as other cases. But I feel for you because it is already a struggle to be an empath when it comes to guilt and being conscientious towards others and then the OCD even makes it more challenging. I want to say that you don’t have to worry about the comments that you make because you are one of the nicest and kindest people here and there is just no mean bone in you and most people can tell that.
My mom indeed had a very hard life which was the hardest struggle that I had when she died. I couldn’t stop thinking what if I was able to make her life better and I also couldn’t stop thinking that I didn’t make her life that better. I supported her financially but I was never able to take her here in the US which was her dream in life. I could have done it when I got my inheritance from my dad but I chose an easier life for myself by not bringing her over here. It was very hard to see a human being whose life seemed to have gotten wasted. I just had so many thoughts especially right after she died that my head was literally hurting so badly because I couldn’t stop thinking. I didn’t even sleep for the first two or three nights. But the only thing that gave me peace is knowing that she was only bad because of her disorder and I know that God understands that and I trust God’s mercy and unconditional love like you said. Thank you for your thoughts about my mom, it didn’t strike me as excusing her at all. I actually feel the same way as you do. I really appreciate your kind sentiments. ❤️❤️❤️
MP
I spoke up for you in the Ed Thread bc I’m a truth seeker. K was calling you a manipulator and saying you were gaslighting.
I understood that you were in ET and not intentionally manipulating and therefore that is NOT gaslighting as I understood the term.
K called you a mid range narcissist and that is untrue.
BUT it’s clearer to me NOW- after meeting Julie- why K would have gone down that road.
The difference was – you weren’t haughty, dismissive or controlling in my view. You apologized, you admitted error in your views, you owned your shit. There were indicators of empathy.
So this thread really had me paying attention. Making sure I was watching very carefully from an unbiased point of view.
Julie flat out jumped into the thread straight out the gate guns blazing calling Lorelei a narcissist.
And also trying to be blog moderator re what is appropriate to post about.
Since then;
No apologies, no admitting to error, no owning of shit.
Now in ED Thread for a moment I thought your behaviours indicated narcissism but I realized my error , apologized profusely (I hope – bc its still on my list of shit I wish I didn’t do)
And that came up for me again in this thread bc I wouldn’t want to be the douchebag that calls someone a narcissist in error.
After much back and forth with Julie, i can’t imagine she’s NOT a narc – and if she’s NOT- then I’d love to know bc I want to see what I’m missing . I want to know if an empath could behave as she has .
It bothers me when someone who isn’t a narc is labelled one because it confuses me. I include myself in this- if I suspect someone is a narc- and I’m wrong- it’s confusing! Have I learned nothing? What is up? What is down? Lol . If all the behaviours are there and no empathic behaviours- what they hell else can we use to know?
I don’t want to be RIGHT – I want TRUTH, I want clarity. I want to be able to trust what I’ve learned.
For me it’s not about Julie , it wasn’t about you, it’s about truth.
WokeAF, I was not trying to make you compare me and Julie. I was trying to make you see the that K has engaged in much more haughty behaviors and much more severe lack of empathy. You are buying into NA’s narrative that I want this to be about me, no. I am bringing up a comparison between Julie and K. The reason that I brought up that K attacked me just days after my mom died is not so I can get your pity. I couldn’t care less if anyone here feels bad for me or not. I want to show that K had total lack of empathy towards me. You said K is an empath. If K is an empath then Julie is most definitely an empath. She has addressed your questions, not always on your terms and she fought back against the barbed remarks (what do you expect her to do?) and she has not called you names like K did. And you think Julie is a narc while K is an empath? Julie wasn’t even aware that it was Lorelei’s birthday while K was fully aware of what was going on with me and yet you acuse Julie of having no empathy and making the birthday about her. K has not apologized and she has not accepted the results of the Empath Detector. So now that I brought it up, all of a sudden it is acceptable for Julie to not accept the ED result as well. Thing is, I truly believe that Meghan Markle is a narcissist and sometimes I post it on social media and if Prince Harry makes me apologize about it I will refuse to. It is my right to have an opinion and if I want to accuse her of that I have freedom of speech as well. I have seen seasoned commenters here call a newbie a twat or other derivative names. What gives them a prerogative over someone like Julie to also voice her personal assertion? As far as I can see, HG doesn’t place the comment’s value based on how active or old a commenter is participating here. So please consider that: K versus Julie. We don’t want to bully an empath because in my experience it doesn’t fuel at all. Just like what Julie said, it is draining. We can disagree but accept that and move on. You are not going to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt here in the blog that Julie is a narcissist just from her comments this week. But you can have your opinion on her and she has already said that she doesn’t mind. So in this case we will just have to agree to disagree. I was right on Esther. My intuition tells me that I’m right on Julie too.
MP
Hi btw how are you lol before I address your comment, how are things going ? I’m moving this week . I’m sitting in a pile of boxes as I type. Sent the kid to his sister’s so I could pack, Soiget fee time (Also known as Respite lol) in between hauling furniture. It’s awesome – self care time- my tv shows, special dinners for one, and SLEEEP!!
Ok to address your comment;;
-I’m not buying into anyone’s narrative.
– I did not say K is an empath. HG did. I am going by that.
– I’m not interested in proving Julie is a narcissist.
I would however love to find out if my personal assessment is correct- and if not- find out what I’m missing.
– I don’t enjoy hostility, haughtiness, or non-empathetic communication, from anyone, and I try to watch my own ET to try to prevent coming off that way myself. I can get cocky and I have to watch that too.
-Whoever called me whatever on the Ed Thread is over for me. HG killed it. I buried it.
You dug it up, and I understand why. I addressed your comment bc you mentioned my part in it, and then others did as well
From this moment on, I won’t be responding to anything re the Ed Thread.
-Julie did not call me names, nor was she hostile .
-Both empaths and narcissists can be hostile, call names, and be haughty.
-I am basing my view on other markers.
My view is open to changing , and I am still watching for anything that could alter it.
-I feel as though you want justice and this is understandably clouding your LT , but I hope you know I’m not on anyone’s “side” and am just participating in the discussion
💕
Hi WokeAF,
I have to say when I say that other commenters perplex me i doesn’t include you because you are very consistent regardless of who are involved. I will have to reply later because my busy day has began. I have a lot of thoughts but doesn’t have the time right now to write them. Take care. 💕
Hi WokeAF,
I’m sorry it took me a while to respond. I had a headache and have been busy with stuff. First I want to address your statements but please take all of these as just the way I see things which is why we disagree here and I took Julie’s side:
“ I’m not interested in proving Julie is a narcissist.
I would however love to find out if my personal assessment is correct- and if not- find out what I’m missing.”
– I honestly don’t understand the difference. You want to find out if your personal assessment is correct (which I assume to be that she is a narcissist) and yet you are not interested in proving if she is a narcissist. Either way, you are putting someone on trial which is exhausting for her and some people who are watChing and perceives it as unnecessary drama. If you found out that you were wrong, was it worth to have someone who turns out to be an empath or a normal to be put through scrutiny like this like she was some laboratory rat? Remember that only narcissists enjoy negative fuel. Normals and empaths both feel abused with negative fuel. I have read before that cyber bullying can even cause some sort of ptsd for some depending on their mental health background. I believe that we have to be careful. It’s best to just state our opinion and end of story. You will never prove or find out if she is a narcissist or not here in the blog because you don’t know her in real life. Even I sound and seem differently here in the blog than in real life.
“ I don’t enjoy hostility, haughtiness, or non-empathetic communication, from anyone, and I try to watch my own ET to try to prevent coming off that way myself. I can get cocky and I have to watch that too.“
I feel the same way and that’s why I came to her side because she was outnumbered and several commenters were undressing her and treating her like an exhibit like she was not a real person. I understand that it wasn’t nice of her to call Lorelei a narcissist and to pick on the commenters involved in the PayPal fiasco, and she should be ready to get adverse reactions. But it didn’t stop there. She was being scrutinized under a microscope. The things that you and several others have been questioning her for are also behaviors that some of the most respected seasoned commenters here have engaged on numerous occasions but these behaviors are overlooked when done by them.
“ I feel as though you want justice and this is understandably clouding your LT , but I hope you know I’m not on anyone’s “side” and am just participating in the discussion”
-No I have stated in my first post to NA that I don’t expect an apology. She said that K owed me an apology for insisting that I am a narcissist despite the result of my Empath Detector test that says I’m an empath. She then retracted after our heated argument and now her stance is that K doesn’t need to apologize because K doesn’t have full faith in the Empath Detector tests. Then in the interest of fairness, that should mean that Julie doesn’t need to apologize. NA has inferred at first that if Julie really is an empath, she should be able to apologize which in my interpretation was a demand or a pressure for Julie to apologize to prove that she isn’t a narcissist:
“ But here’s the thing:
Being an empath with narcissistic traits DOESN’T mean that you cannot offer……
Apologies for any confusion.”
I do not need justice regarding the Ed thread. I accept that it was a terrible thing that happened to me but different kinds of terrible things happen to everyone. I know that my blessings in life outnumber the unfortunate things in my life and the opinions of people who has never met me have no value at all. In fact do you remember that I even agreed that I’m a narcissist just so everyone would finally stop scrutinizing me? Because even if HG thinks that I am a narcissist it doesn’t affect my family. My kids and husband are still as happy as heck and don’t feel abused by me and that’s more important for me.
Regarding Julie, she has already left so I think that this can all rest. Everybody gets to keep their opinions and they can even frame it if they want lol.
Anyway, I’m glad that you are having your ‘me’ time which is always hard to get as a parent, especially a single mom. You are amazing and I know that you make a lot of sacrifices for the people you love so you absolutely deserve every bit of ‘me’ time that you can get. I wish you luck with moving. It’s never easy to move. I hated moving. My matrinarc and I used to move to a different apartment so many times, sometimes even two or three times in one year because she got in fights with all of our neighbors and landlords. I even helped my mom sometimes with garbage throwing fights and we had a nasty neighbor who even threw fish guts at our apartment room. It’s never boring to live with a Lesser matrinarc. I’m doing well, thank you for asking. Just really busy with the two kids. I could go on forever talking about them but this post is already very long and it scares me to have a glitch and lose it. 😝
MommyP
Help me understand this:
On the thread that involved you previous, you feel that someone labeled you a narcissist. I say feel only because I know narc traits were listed but I don’t know if you were actually called a narcissist. Regardless – you felt labelled unfairly and were understandably hurt. The back and forth blew up that thread. There were bad feelings all around. You see this post and raise your issue again, even wanting to cut and paste to demonstrate how hurt you were and how you felt you were treated badly.
Come forward to this post. Julie called Lorelei a narcissist and a dangerous manipulator right out of the gate. No innuendo. And now you applaud her for her courage and for standing up for what she believes in etc.? You don’t empathize with Lorelei as being a victim like you felt you were? You laud the person in this case who pointed the finger at someone in a more direct way than it was at you and you laud them as being brave? You didn’t think it was brave and courageous of K when it happened to you.
This is inconsistent and truly baffling behaviour.
NA , K did flat out tell MP she thinks she’s a mid range narc. It was never retracted. And in more recent threads K again labelled MP’s interactions with “narc” labels such as malign Hoover .
But that thread was centered around MP taking up for another reader that was being labelled the same way (Esther- although I concur on that but I digress) And again in this thread , it comes back to the same.
I believe MP is unknowingly taking up for anyone K puts the narc manipulation labels on, -regardless of accuracy-Bc MP identifies with the accused- and the ET is preventing clarity and ability to distinguish the individuality of each situation.
The illusion of cliques is unfounded with one exception – K was never brought to accountability for labelling MP a narc or continuing to label her interactions as a narc.
I suspect that is bc K doubts HG’s assessment of MP.
MP doesn’t understand why K is allowed to make said accusation and not be brought to accountability for it. MP may see this as hypocrisy and as a justice seeker , wants resolution- but ET is clouding awareness of this and its being projected onto aligning with and defending anyone who faces K’s wrath- true narc or not.
Hi WokeAF, Thank you. I agree with the first three sentences in your post. NA’s recounts are full of inaccuracies but I refrained from responding because it is not that important for me. The person that I was defending has already left. Anyway, good luck with your move! I hope that it will be as easy peasy as possible. 😘💕
NA & MP – pls understand my previous observation Re MP comes from recognizing the ET voice in myself – (wanting to validate another reader’s perception of K coming off as hostile in another thread. While I stand by that validation I offered-I suspect ET grabbed it and it came out worded potentially as a dig .)
But Ive cleared the last of that ET out.
There is value in recognizing victim mentality and other ET behaviours , in others and in myself.
There’s value in labelling the narc manipulations.
I’m quite devoted to knowing the difference.
I don’t have victim mentality WokeAF. But you’re all entitled to your own opinions. I didn’t mind your post at all. I didn’t see it as a dig. I just didn’t agree with the rest after the first three sentences. It’s ok to disagree. Let’s move on.
MP you made an excellent point – if she turned out to be an empath – re: the adverse effects of this .
Of course I considered this but – bc she kept engaging seemingly unphased -I also continued bc I wanted resolution within myself on what I was experiencing.
Still, Good reminder. Noted.
Thank you WokeAF. 💕. Sometimes people put a facade of being unphased to not grant a victory to people that attack her/him. I do that a lot of times too and I have been doing that defense mechanism before I have even learned about narcissism here. But inside it is really painful. Why do you think she left?
MP, Hope you are well. Not sure what the Ed thread is or don’t remember but wanted to note that I saw your mention of me in one of your comments on this thread (not in a bad way) and you should not worry! I am fine and I don’t even know what you were referring to. As for the PayPal thing, I must have missed that though I believe it involved me. IT IS ALL RESOLVED everyone, and has been for awhile now. HG knows this and he is the only one who matters in that respect. I didn’t feel the need to announce it but since it came up, I guess I will!! Now I imagine everyone talking on some secret thread that I cannot access saying “she didn’t donate, she must be a narc!”! lol. (I am kidding.)
Thank you SMH! I’m doing well. It’s nice to hear from you again. I’m happy that it means nothing to you. I don’t know if you’re in the US for Thanksgiving, but if you are celebrating it, I hope that it is wonderful for you and your family.
Thank you, MP! I am in the US and looking forward to Thanksgiving (even though I have to cook, travel and see Matrinarc). I hope yours is wonderful too!
Ok I read the thread. Esther’s imprint (for lack of a better word) was a LOT like a MMR female I know.
The same one Julie resembles to me- only Esther even more so.
Just my 2 cents
You people seriously…
Mid ranger pity play and sulk..
My behaviour does not match a mid ranger
Keep trying maybe you will get it one day! Lol
WokeAF, I am actually not sure if it was you who accused Julie of making Lorelei’s birthday about Julie. I apologize if it wasn’t you. I am honestly mixing up everyone’s comments in my head and can’t remember exactly who said what.
MP I had missed the Audio Consult thread.
It perplexes me that eve old timers might doubt HG’s detectors -since HG is the source of information we use here to determine narcissism it would call into question ALL of his work , I don’t see how one can pick and choose.
It also suggests HG could let a mid ranger slip through the empath detector
It’s bizarre to me –
As I don’t receive notifications from WP on comments, I came here to see if I missed anything. Now I want both a sweet potato and popcorn along with my desire for a slice of chocolate pecan pie.
K – thank you for considering what I wrote and for your response. An agreement to agree to disagree seems to be the best solution as I know I can’t see myself changing my stance.
NA – I wrote a response to you this morning that is waiting. Based on what I have read, though, it sounds as some of it has been thoroughly thought and considered. I know you didn’t ask me but I am going to share my thoughts. While I don’t agree with HG on what I stated to K, and I don’t believe he is God or a God, I do believe he is an expert. I do believe in his abilities. I don’t think he was wrong about you. Mind you I only know you on here, I think, but what I see shows such compassion to others the majority of the time. This darn image of what an empath is that keeps coming out on this blog, by the readers, is hurting more than helping. Mind you, HG’s articles help and would be great being expanded upon.
Wouldn’t it be great to talk about characteristics instead of labels? “I don’t appreciate how this person constantly puts people down. I have learned that I can’t fix that person’s behavior and so I will stay away from them.” “I enjoy that this person makes me laugh or feel good when I am having a crappy day thanks to a narcissist in my life, I am going to go find them on the blog.” Interestingly, NA, in the 60s or 70s, there was a test of different types of therapy styles. They had a woman video recorded as she went and spoke to therapists of different styles. Do you know which one she ended up thinking would be most helpful for her at the end? The Gestalt method where he was direct and identifying body language and other things. Your style does help; maybe not everyone and that is ok. For those who it doesn’t help, there are other styles of help here too (to include the ones who are not making you happy right now). I have observed that you feel that as long as help is established, it doesn’t have to be from you.
Mommypino – I have never found you to be a pity play type. You are correct that I am the one who brought up your mom’s death in that thread which should remain nameless. It wasn’t you. I saw the comparison of the situations from that thread and this one, and understand that is what you were trying to explain. As I shared with NA, I think readers can make great points for discussion but I struggle with any reader on this blog diagnosing a narcissist or empath. I hear that people are applying what they learn from HG and that is great. There are caveats to my excitement, though. HG hasn’t shared everything he knows. HG is objective except in regards to building a legacy. I don’t see a lot of readers who stay objective. I personally didn’t read where Lorelai took an empath consultation and have always thought her to be a normal (that third category that is often forgotten by some readers). Then again, Lorelai may have found freedom on this blog to voice her inner thoughts because she may not have that ability elsewhere. I don’t know and neither does anyone else on this blog. I cringe at some of the comments but I can admit that not all of my thoughts are sunshine and rainbows; I just don’t share them here. That is why I see that more eyes and ears may have been open if people didn’t feel that they had to argue over titles versus behavior. Does Julia need to apologize? If Julia doesn’t feel she is wrong, of course not, in my opinion. If Julia feels she was wrong but won’t apologize because that would leave her vulnerable for someone to take control, then Julia has need for more self assessment in my opinion. That kind of fear is deep rooted, established before a comment on this blog, and it may hold her back in other areas of healing and growing.
For the comments about how the conversation has switch focus. Don’t many conversations do that? Many of mine usually start on one focus which then inspires another and so on from there. What I see is that there are many deep seated thoughts and feelings being addressed on this one blog. I wonder if HG has used it as a “talk about the elephants in the room so we can move the heck on.”
Hi, Mommypino!
I hope you can find this response. How is everything going? I’m glad you wrote because I forgot to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving as well – happy Thanksgiving!
I am so sorry to hear what happened to your mom! That is absolutely horrible! Not only was she not protected by the ones who should have protected her, but then she had to suffer at hearing them apologize for her as if it was her fault! It’s horrible! It’s not fair! Is it any wonder why it is so hard for some of us to not see narcissists as plain evil? I do believe she is resting in peace. I also am of the belief that she is resting in unconditional love and care. I know she made your life and growing up horrible; and I hope you don’t feel I am excusing that. What happened to you is also horrible! Have you ever seen “The Shack?” There is a scene in it about abusers needing to be judged by God and it turns out that they too were victims of abuse. Thankfully you have broken the cycle with your children!!
That is amazing about Mr Roger’s! A group of us were talking about him and the different rumors we had heard (he was a sniper in the Marines, he was a preacher, etc). We all agreed that the truth is he is a saint, an amazing man who was a good role model.
It was very easy to say how I feel, just overdue. For that, I am sorry!
Thank you for your comment and concern regarding the OCD characteristic. The comments on this blog didn’t impact it. It made me feel bad for many who were commenting and also not commenting, and it made me think it was time to watch a Hallmark movie to compensate. I am very lucky in that I have what I consider a very mild aspect of OCD characteristics, and I can handle what aspects I do have (being overly tired or stressed can have impact). Society misunderstands OCD like they do narcissism. Many think of it like the husband in “Sleeping with the Enemy” with cleanliness and organization. Many think all who are OCD are like Monk. There is no one shoe fits all when it comes to OCD. I don’t have the compulsions (washing my hands many times at one time, checking locks many times, etc). Unless I share, one who watches me would never know. Without going into all of my issues, what plays out here on this blog is the anxiety of what I write. One comment can take me hours to write. I have to read and reread. Then, like now when I have realized I sound hypocritical in one of the comments HG is reviewing, I feel horrible and want to clarify and fix. I can’t clarify easily here. I also worry that my words can hurt others on here, as I know I can and have in other aspects of life. People on here have been hurt enough, so I don’t want to be one to add to it and so I don’t comment on some things of which I have an opinion. It goes on from there, but I hope that helps clarify. I have seen comments that people use OCD tendencies to control; and I agree that there are people who will use whatever to control (narcissists). It is my opinion that individuals who truly have OCD characteristics or diagnosis are not using it to control, even subconsciously. Personally, I do everything I can to prevent this from being passed on to my child or to have my issues impact him negatively, or anyone else, no matter how it makes me feel. I can handle my negative feelings but couldn’t deal with my actions or words when it impacts another. I have no doubt that there are many others who don’t use it to control another and learn to cope.
Sorry that this is a book to your nice comment!
Na, Omg! Inconsistent baffling behavior??! When you didn’t have empathy for MP but you did have it for Lorelei- so aren’t you full of inconsistent baffling behavior yourself? That sure sounds like a load of word salad and gaslighting.
kel
Perhaps you should reread the Ed and Audio Consult threads where NarcAngel’s empathy and object constancy is evident.
NarcAngel has more integrity than some of the half-assed empaths that I have seen posting here.
Kel
I have empathy for both of them. I spoke up on this time (although not right away) BECAUSE of what happened previously, and I explained that in a previous comment.
Thank you Kel. I think it’s best to not respond anymore and let’s all move forward. This will never go anywhere. Anyway I hope that you and your family will have a happy Thanksgiving 🦃💕!
Happy Thanksgiving to you too Mommypino! 🦃 💕
Hi, Mommypino!
I found your message! I don’t receive notifications, but I looked based on your comment on the other thread.
Thank you so much for your kind comments! I have been and can be a witch, but I am glad that I haven’t been here. I was worried that my comments wouldn’t make sense but your words show your great understanding and your good heart! I hadn’t thought of how each would be with OCD. I do wonder if there is a difference based on whether the person is a narcissist, normal, or empath. My therapist and I have been discussing how it helps in different career fields. I finally understood HG’s comment about no desire to change when I started to look at how my tendencies help me even when they prevent me. I need to see that movie.
My son is my only child. I think he has the energy of five children, though. LOL
I hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving and weekend! I thought of you last night when I saw a commercial for the new Star Wars. Are your kids already excited about Christmas?
Can I suggest a different possibility of why you chose not to bring your mom to the US instead of the thought that you chose an easier life? Could it be that your subconscious was protecting you? I do believe that underneath all logic and feelings, the instinct of survival plays a role for all. Even when our feelings think we would do “the right thing” for another; I do believe survival instincts can jump in and protect when allowed. It wasn’t just protecting yourself but protecting your children. The “what ifs” is a game to keep negative emotions alive. Your mom didn’t deserve the life she was given. She learned to survive in her own way. You are a good person. You did the best you could at each step and a good teacher for your children.
I just had a non-romantic lunch with someone. It’s strange when you see flags but don’t know who is showing it: the person talking or the one of which they are talking. Then I wonder if I am seeing flags that aren’t there. What is “normal” behavior again?
Hi Getting There!!
I can imagine OCD being an advantage in careers in the fields of research, science and engineering. As Good as it Gets is a very good movie. I really enjoyed it and the acting was stellar. Although I have seen that movie before learning about narcissism so I am very interested in watching it now with a different lens.
We had a great Thanksgiving. Our daughter brought home a stomach flu which was transferred to our son then to me and then to my husband so Thanksgiving was delayed for a day. My husband was also having a back ache for some reason but the KT Tape has been helping him. On Thanksgiving Day we just decided to go to the theater and watched Frozen 2 instead of Mr. Rogers. But my stepson agreed to watch Mr Rogers with me this coming week.
Thank you Getting There, I have also consciously protected my dad and my husband from my mom. My dad asked me if he should start the process of getting my mom and I told him all of the truth about her because I didn’t want his last days to have all of the problems that she will cause him. He didn’t know that she was abusive and he had no idea about what my life really was when I was living with her. I never told him in my letters to him because I was protecting my mom. I remember thinking as a child that he might take me and stop the financial support to her and I knew that she couldn’t survive without anyone supporting her financially. Then as an adult I didn’t even think of telling him because the abuse was my normal so because it was my normal it didn’t seem like something that I had to open up to anyone about even though it was a really hard life. I just dealt with it. I also protected my husband from her and then when my kids were born I felt that I had to protect them. I wanted so badly for her to be in their lives that I took my son with me to live with her for a few weeks hoping that I would see a potential that it can work that she can live with us but that potential was never there. She was not capable of creating a bond with my son and he was even scared of her but he instantly developed a bond with my empathic aunt. Even their pictures together where I asked her to give a balloon to my son she had no life in her eyes and no interest in my son with the way she was looking at him. I couldn’t understand it at that time but now I do. And I am thankful for HG’s work for that understanding and not having to wonder again.
Getting There I feel the same way about seeing red flags all the time. I feel that with everything that I have learned here and even experienced (the good and the bad), I am at a transitional point where applying what I have learned is still in its rudimentary stage. I feel like I need to take more time before trusting someone and get to know them better first. It’s probably the best way to weed out narcissists because if I am slow at providing fuel then they will most likely move to someone else. I even recognize a lot of red flags that I have. I also recognize a lot of unhealthy mindset that I have adopted from my mom growing up and the manipulations that I was doing without realizing it then I catch myself doing it and stop it right away. For example my husband accidentally said a bad word earlier and our son called him out. My husband was embarrassed and said to our son no he didn’t, he said something else. It was humorous but then I realized that it was gaslighting so I told our son that yes his dad did say it, he was right and it is a bad word and his dad shouldn’t say it again. My husband realized what I was doing and he smiled and agreed and told our son that he shouldn’t have said that word.
Yes the kids are excited about Christmas. I already started to decorate but we still don’t have a tree. We will get a tree next weekend I think.
How was your Thanksgiving? Did you spend it with extended family or just with your son? Are you guys excited about Christmas too? Is it also a big deal in your family?
Violetta :
“ He that is giddy thinks the world turns round.”
I love this! I’m jotting it down.
Great rundown, NA. Sometimes I feel we’re in an Arthur Miller play. Except there is narc hunting rather than witch hunting. ‘You’re one of them!’
I have been having a work related issue where some coworkers are wanting to get together outside of work and I haven’t the time nor interest. With my schedule, I have 2 free nights a week and I feel like they’re trying to steal it from me, however inviting and friendly they are. One in particular has gone from ‘friendly and inviting’ to pressure and constant questioning as to why I won’t go. She is an empath who is pissing me off.
I have already said no, I don’t like going out for these activities and I have explained that my time is very limited but if she continues to push, I informed another coworker (who also has no intention of going) that my prickers are going to come out. I don’t want them to, and given we are coworkers I realize I have to keep up a friendly facade, but my authentic side wants to tell her to mind her own business.
Maybe this seems cold and my narc traits are at play (that I am more focused on my personal time than pleasing others) but call it what you will. Maybe HG has been rubbing off on me. I have no problem saying no, but she clearly has a problem accepting no. If she continues to push I am going to have lay down the law.
Bibi:
These have been my go to responses, but I understand not everyone would be comfortable with them:
Thank you for asking but no. (I say it in a friendly manner and smile but provide no reason).
I appreciate the invitation but am a little uncomfortable with having to provide a reason for declining as I’m a private person. (When pushed).
People may think those responses rude, but my thinking is that it is rude to make me feel obligated or to have to offer an explanation to what is supposed to be an “invitation” , so it’s fair play by my standard.
It never stopped invitations but it did stop the pushing. Good luck.
Absolutely true, NA. Well said. Unfortunately your truth will fall on deaf ears for the hard of understanding and lacking in self and other awareness. Thanks for speaking the truth none-the-less. You are most appreciated.
FYC
That’s fine. It wasn’t for the hard of understanding.
NarcAngel, well said. Your last line pretty much sums up the lesson I’ve learned through all of this. I was actually hoping there would be evidence but I’ve seen none.
Correction: Not hoping. I know better. Wondering is what I should have said
I just really HEARD this for the first time. Sure, listened to it a couple times before but just GOT IT-GOT IT
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NIkVk5Qc2H8
WokeAF,
Thanks for the link. I listened while making my morning coffee. There’s the lack of awareness again. The narcissist truly believes he helping. In this case the narcissist has convinced her friends and family. Can you imagine being this woman how you would feel when that doorbell rang. It gave me the chills.
God, I love his voice.
I actually tend to read this site rather than listen to the recordings because I can focus better on the words and their meaning.
Violetta, I usually read too but I’m glad I woke up to this link. Maybe I’ll start listening to an audio each morning while getting ready for work.
NA…you’re rather …poetic..with your astute observations. It’s pleasant for me to read , I experienced a gentle, calm , wise and compassionate feeling —and the image of sailing safely & gently down a stream , when I read that.
I don’t think my manner is soothing. Lol. My kids for example know they’re protected and safe- but I’m not a gentle stream LMFAO
I admire that about you.
🙏
NOT SAYING YOURE A GENTLE STREAM!
At all.
But that you gave me that feeling with that comment and with others before .
And I admire the ability to have that effect on someone.
NA,
“I make little apology for embracing my narcissistic traits because of my belief that they have benefitted me greatly and could for others as well.“
To put it shortly, having narcissistic traits are very beneficial indeed. They help you to withstand tragedy and malevolence.
Empaths use their high narcissism for good, such as when they are raising a child and disciplining them for their own good- as HG stated. Empaths are not narcissists in any way shape or form. NPD is vastly different. The closest an empath will ever get to being like a narcissist is if they experience a supernova. Empathy will always outweigh narcissism in an empath because we have emotions a narcissist doesn’t possess and a conscience. A super empath is more apt to stand their ground for truth and will thus be a source of negative fuel because they believe in good so strongly. They aren’t likely to cave in to kissing up.
Julie brought some interesting observations that were honest and with good intentions. What she said should have been respected and discussed intelligently. If one disagreed, they should’ve simply stated- ‘Wow I don’t see it that way and here’s why’ – or ‘Hmm that’s an interesting point of view, but here’s how I see it’. But readers here seem to enjoy having a fight and insulting someone for their point of view rather than considering their thoughts and discussing it openly. This blog has become a lot about amazon purchases and banter about L. I have been dealing with financial issues lately which Lorelei has also been posting, but mine lead me to discover the anxiety disorder I’ve developed from narcissists, and I have to conquer it so I can deal with fixing my life. I didn’t post about shopping, getting my hair done. I post on here as therapy, it gets it unburied, off my chest, and out in the open, and it sends it away. When I posted about my latest discovery- anxiety disorder- it was a very deep thing, at the same time on another thread, banter was going on about frivolous nonsense that had nothing to do with narcissism, and it made me feel foolish for posting something that was serious. This has become the L blog more than the HG blog lately. And HG comments to L in the past week about b&w – ‘your white bikini’, ‘color (me beautiful)’, and ‘I’ll be there in 15 minutes and give you something to examine that won’t be my conscience’ (in reference to L suggesting HG’s penis probably has erectile dysfunctions). I was wondering with that recent banter what’s going on here, is this flirting? But after Julie’s posts, I then realized it could well have been HG calling out her behavior. A red flag for me of a narcissist is when someone speaks things that make absolutely no sense and you have to chuckle and overlook them- much like the kangaroo comment on this thread and wanting one with a baby in the pouch. Wha? I’m not accusing her of being a narc, maybe she has some other issues, but Julie’s comments made good points. They should’ve been respected and discussed intelligently. I have mentioned the shampoo and shopping therapy at least a couple of times before, but the hint was not received, in fact it was confronted, and so I backed off amiably. Who has a clique outside of high school- narcissists do. Readers seem to enjoy fighting, deciding who’s allowed to comment on here, and why are they still here- instead of respecting that what was said was honest and well-intended, even if they disagreed with it, and should’ve had a reasonable conversation about it. L’s comments to HG over all of this were very rough, mean, challenging- that she could beat him at a game of chess (wtf?), and no one called her out on that. That’s a first that readers didn’t rally around HG. This is his blog, he respected Julie’s posts, and so should the rest of the readers who seem too high and mighty to openly discuss something.
1. Julie was perfectly entitled to state her observations. Her concern about frivolous discussion was valid as she and other people found there to be “noise pollution”, this led to a concert that a serious topic was being diluted. Conversely, other people like to engage in off topic conversation to bring levity to a difficult topic and stated as such. Both viewpoints have validity and given the diversity of readers a balance is struck. I allow some banter but it is pruned (of course nobody sees that because you do not see what I moderate “out” but I have removed and will continue to remove material which strays too far off topic) and I allowed people to express their distaste for the banter. Both viewpoints were accommodated.
2. I do not see a lack of intelligence in the responses provided. Some people supported Julie´s standpoint and others disagreed. Some felt it was fair enough to express her disapproval of the banter but went too far in labelling Lorelei a narcissist. Some will have agreed with that label. Again, both sides got to express their viewpoint.
3. The blog has not become a lot about Amazon purchases and banter about L. Yes, it is there but you will find that an analysis of the comments demonstrates that Amazon banter and Lorelei´s banter was less than 5% of all comments. That falls way short of “become a lot”. With regard to some of my exchanges with L, I am actually being sarcastic when I respond to the “colours and shopping” comments. Some people get that, others may think that I am engaging in interested conversation. No, it is not flirtation. Some of the comments made towards me I just ignore as they are not worth responding to.
4. You should not feel foolish about posting something that is serious. Part of the raison détre of the blog is to allow a voice to people where they have been denied it. This means allowing you to air your thoughts re anxiety, it means allowing (some) levity, it means allowing Renarde to air her observations about the BDSM scene, it allows discussion about pets. The point is that certain topics are very much about narcissism and its effects, others less so and even those which appear to have nothing to do with narcissism actually do have a link because those commenting are either (mainly) victims of narcissists or (occasionally) narcissists themselves. Therefore, the comments arising from those two groups, even where they do not appear to have anything to do with narcissism, have some relevance. Yes, the level of relevance of comments vary, but it is all part of wide range of individuals that come here to read and those who also comment.
5. Readers do not enjoy fighting. The vast majority want to be able to express their views and learn and that is what I facilitate. Like everyone else, Kel, you are more than welcome to express your own views, within the parameters of the rules and I encourage you to continue to do so, as I do with everybody. The majority of the comments sought clarification and yes, robust views are advanced, which as I have always stated, I allow – why? It is an emotive subject and you all are entitled to express yourselves. Some do so more eloquently than others, some do so with a better regard for evidence than others, but this is a forum and that means allowing all voices within the rules. It is my house and I govern as I see fit and it works.
6. One of the issues you all have is that you do not know what I moderate (obviously) and do not allow through. If you did, you would have a far better appreciation of how even-handed I am to all commentators and ensure that the true troublemakers that occasionally come here are kept away.
Thank you for the detailed response HG. By a lot of Amazon, I meant it had become an almost daily routine. By intelligent conversation, I meant we should’ve discussed the topic or accusation first, and not just gone after the commenter. While I’m sure her observation should’ve been presented more delicately, she was posting calmly and stating she meant it for good purposes. The dangerous implication she brought up was about how we could be easily manipulated by one who knows how to blend in with their targets and mirror without them realizing. Anyway I thought she had some interesting points and wished there could’ve been discussion rather than just going after her and accusing her of things. Thinking about her viewpoint and then simply disagreeing if they wished and even stating why would’ve been more interesting. Considering a viewpoint and discussing it calmly should be what a blog is for, so that everyone is comfortable to express their thoughts without fear of feeling attacked or ganged up on. They were saying things like, What’s she still doing on the blog, and so on, which was rather superior of them. I don’t think that’s right, but it is your blog and I respect that. She made a point about a commenter, not out of anger or for any motive, and never had a disrespectful exchange with the person she accused. I do appreciate that I’ve been allowed to express my feelings and observations peacefully.
You are welcome as you are welcome to express your views.
1. Then you ought to have stated “an almost daily routine” rather than “become a lot about Amazon.” Those are two different matters.
2. Nobody “went after” the commenter. An observation was made, one which the commenter was entitled to make. Some people disagreed with that and they stated as such.
3. Nobody “ganged up” on somebody. If one person makes an assertion and ten people disagree, that is not ganging up. It means more people who disagree are prepared to state as such.
4. I doubt Julie felt she was attacked or “gained-up” on. She is a robust individual.
5. Comments such as “what is she still doing on the blog” are observations in the same manner as it is an observation stating that Lorelei is a narcissist. Some you will agree with, some you will not agree with, but they are observations nonetheless. Some may be poor observations, some may be good observations, but they remain observations.
Dear HG
With all respect, we definitely know you are a narcissist.
Well done. You got something correct.
HA!
Thank you and I hope you got it too.
(I meant for that comment to come in under yours but I imagine it will pop up under Lorelei’s.)
My replies to your comments were not meant to sound like I was challenging you. I do disagree on some points, which I know you can’t have. But to take one a step further, ‘a lot’ is a frequency, as in it happens often. It is not stating it’s a majority or any percentage. I write my comments quickly on my cell, they are not essays, but I do believe the words I choose are usually accurate for conveying my thoughts. I don’t have time to spend on the blog commenting all day, much less looking up quotes to reference things most of us commonly know (as Lorelei just asked for in her comment to this). I took too much time commenting this morning instead of doing other things, and the things I said were steered into another direction. I believe in manners and politeness on the blog, and respect. I will leave you to yours.
kel got a lot correct, HG.
Oh, I meant to say, “kel gets things correct on a daily basis!”
Droll.
Thank you. I hope you got it as well. I’ll leave you to yours.
HG
Thank you for explaining a discussion goes both ways. Just because an opinion or response doesn’t align with yours doesn’t mean that the person is not calm or asking questions to clarify your stance. You can’t just read anger into something because you think it’s opposing and label it ganged up or attacked because that is just your opinion and might not be fact. I saw a very robust (as you put it) discussion were others would use words like brawl or bloodbath because it affects them that way. I also am direct and prefer others to be instead of hiding behind innuendo, but some people are not comfortable with that. There are differing styles of communication here on the blog and I tried to point that out a couple of times but some took that as being superior. We can clarify, but we can’t control how someone receives what we are saying. That’s for them to reconcile with themselves.
Correct. What amuses me is where certain individuals are aggressive or provocative and as soon as they encounter resistance they claim they are being attacked, ganged up on etc. No, you are being disagreed with, pure and simple.
Dearest HG: Regarding feeling ganged up on. I think sometimes we make a miscalculation because of a number of various factors, and then we are surprised that so many people disagree with us, and like you say, it feels like being ganged up, when we are not being ganged up on. Regarding Lorelei, for example, many people on here go into various conversations on a variety of topics, every single day, not just Lorelei, nor myself, nor some others, but many people. And most of us skip cadet topics or cadet threads that we are not focusing on or that we bypass for whatever reason that we desire, but almost everyone at some time or the other goes `off topic`. We do not usual stop and say, HEY, do not talk about that or this or the other. We are very happy that you moderate it all, and we focus on what thread, or what cadet thread that interests us and we skip those that we desire to skip. Lorelei happened to be singled out this month, while many were not. In my case, on one topic this week, I felt ganged up on, because I am against the Big Bang Theory and Evolution Theory, etc. and I thought that most people also were against those theories. And, I assumed that most people felt the same way, and I was wrong, in that I did not know that so many people are for those theories. And all that they did was to speak out, but, in a number that surprised me, and so I FELT ganged up on. I was not. And anyone else that were also against those theories like I am, preferred to remained silent. Or, I am standing alone. But, in either case, no ganged-up-on, happened to me. I was only blindsided because I was unaware of the numbers of the opposing belief. I just make a miscalculation, and now I stand more aware. Not the same thing, like you are saying, as being ganged up on. I find it interesting, that we can FEEL ganged up on at times, when in fact it is not the case, as you explained so well.
🎵🎶
This is the thread that never ends
Yes it goes on & on, my friends!
You made a comment a week ago
Not knowing what it was
But you’ll keep getting notifications forever
just because…
🎶🎵
….you failed to turn them off.
Ha, ha, HG! Some of us don’t unsubscribe because are intrigued to see how high the number will go. Up to 1219 comments so far. – That reminds me of a slur one of my narc cousins used to often throw my way, “Little things amuse little minds.” Amusing to see that in essentials I have not changed. Lol!
nightstandsecrets
Hahaha…thanks for the laugh!
PSE
That is a very honest reflection. You were not “ganged” up on. You were involved in a discussion. An exchange of differing views and opinions.
The thread was rude and superior. Some did consider her suggestion and others didn’t. It does not matter what I say. Let’s move on. Lorelei have you shopped today, bathed the dogs? Just kidding.
That is your opinion. Others will disagree.
It really doesn’t matter anymore
Then why keep raising it?
There are better comebacks HG if you wanted to have the last word that don’t involve being unkind. What kept me in the loop with my narc is I couldn’t allow him to treat me that way. So for the sake of not raising it anymore, I’ll say, you’re right, I won’t.
Nothing to do with comebacks, merely pointing out what you have stated and then how you are reneged on that. Pointing out the difference is not unkind. For instance, that car is red, that car is blue. They are different, agreed? Where is the unkindness in pointing out the difference? There is none.
As stated many, many times on this blog, you are always welcome to advance your views and observations. Understand that this also means you will sometimes be corrected.
You are the one labelling it as unkind. It is not, in itself, an unkind act.
Lisk,
🤣🤣 a lot!
Kel, for whatever it’s worth, I just want to say that I don’t believe whatever is implied about you. And you are right, you don’t have to explain anything. Be like K! 😉
Kel—I also disagree it was daily. Where are your facts? Can you find these daily posts (say for over a two week period with date/time stamps)and add the links. Let’s be honest—it was an annoyance that it came up on occasion. Also, I was implicated in comments I never generated. The yoga pants—someone else brought up IG models wearing them and I said I’d check it out. The bikini? Not my comment—it was HG’s joke re, the rising water level I’ll encounter in Venice. It wasn’t flirty but the reality.. Someone mentioned erectile dysfunction. I actually wasn’t thinking asking HG about such matters was tasteful—look up my first comment on that thread. I only went back to my original comment on that thread as HG persisted it could not be an issue. I illustrated in medical terms (not joking) how it could happen to anyone. I did so thoughtfully.
There is banter on here I’ve not talked about or responded to. I look the other way if I don’t like it. MP was commenting about her husband enjoying contractions associated with orgasms awhile back. I could care less but let’s talk about who discerns tasteful. It’s the individual commenter and HG allowing it. Annoyance doesn’t equate to narcissism. I think MP is nice woman. I’m not saying you aren’t. But talk to me—not around me. I’m more reasonable than you think.
Lorelei
I know the bikini was HG’s comment, that’s what I said.
Lorelei, that comment of mine was a response to a question about whether it’s fair for men that women have multiple orgasms while men do not. I remembered what my husband told me why he actually does not feel it’s unfair because it’s enjoyable for him as well. It was a discussion between MB and Sweetest Perfection about multiple orgasms and someone had a question and I thought I had some answer to contribute. Shame on me for feeling safe enough to share that.
Kel,
“Thinking about her viewpoint and then simply disagreeing if they wished and even stating why would’ve been more interesting.”
Some people did think about her viewpoint and did attempt to have a calm, logical conversation seeking clarification and any supporting evidence. Some of those people found that they could not get a direct response.
I got your reply Kel—and it’s ok. It’s intriguing that something seemingly innocuous would be an issue—but because I know it seems to be for some I’m willing to be more focused. I’m also not unaware of the aggregate of levity that seems excessive to some. How does anyone know that I don’t have anxiety and buy nearly everything online to avoid stores? Could that be a link to the narcissist dynamic I lived? People assume things are flippant silliness all the time. My life is constructed in the way that it is to compensate for the aftermath of a total decline. I can’t really stand being around people much of the time. I do a lot of social things, yes, but it snowballs into exhaustion And then I avoid people entirely. I’m far from up to par, admittedly. My cognition is back but pieces of who I was are still lagging behind. I’m not looking for sympathy—what I’m saying is that everyone has their perspective of what they see and sometimes things that appear one way aren’t that way at all. I wasn’t able to clean my own house until this spring. I was totally useless and had no energy. Narc site has been a lifesaver.
Hi Kel,
I left the thread for peace not victory. As more people than necessary where getting hurt.
If others think they were victorious… settle pettle.
Your character defines who you are, and I’m not mean. Yes the blog should be about open and honest dialogue about narcissistic abuse, and yes there are times when people talk about things that aren’t appropriate on a public blog, i dont put my name to a blog that is judging women, based on appearance, or making light of serious issues as a “joke”. i would definitely agree that some people need to be mean in order to feel seen. That is on them.
I like your style Kel, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
My approach to everything is never delicate.
I definitely now know alot more than I did about certain readers..And why this thread, kept going.
And that is a good thing.
Hi Julie
There was good that came from this thread. It exposed a variety of things. And I was also glad to discover the voices on the blog who calmly stood up and spoke truth.
There is a tower here that is protected.
But Kel, apparently it doesn’t matter anymore-except when it does.
HG
You are being bratty for some reason. It doesn’t matter only when everything I say doesn’t matter to the person I’m talking to.
Wrong.
You are saying one thing and then doing another. Pointing this out to you is not bratty.
Why not respond with, “I can see you are correct HG, yes, it is my view and others may disagree.” That is not difficult, nor does it undermine your position.
Or “I know I wrote that it does not matter anymore and then I continued to comment, so yes, I understand how I have contradicted myself.” That is what you did, but instead, rather than do so, you label me as “bratty”. I do not form the view that you cannot see the contradiction in your behaviour, but rather, you cannot bring yourself to accept that you have acted as such, because you do not want to be shown to have contradicted yourself by me, because you have adopted an oppositional stance towards me.
For instance, you labelled people’s behaviours as “superior” and then in a comment you use words (to the effect) of “there is a tower here that is protected”. That might be viewed as making a superior comment.
Notice how I am explaining what you have written without using ad hominem comments?
There is a protected tower here. One of HG’s making and he dwells there alone. You can read about it in The Relational Tower. No one else gains admittance.Thinking that there are those who do gain admittance speaks to an insecurity and prejudice towards others. Also, an inability to grasp NDP as a defence mechanism that would reject this. That’s my opinion.
🙄
Kel, the good is still here.
The good voices are never really silenced.
You’re a strong person Kel, in the way that matters most.
The tower… pfft please. Do not give people such importance
What is important is YOU.
Julie, Thank you.
Kel, HG has a primary need for control, challenging him or opposing him will get a reaction.
Learning when to engage and when not to, is still the hardest lesson.
Dust yourself off, kid… you’re ok : )
Hg also demonstrates when somebody is incorrect in order to enable people to learn and understand.
Learning when you are wrong and admitting as such, is not difficult as I have demonstrated in my comment to Kel.
Thanks Julie. I’m not a bit emotional as is being implied by others. I’ve been here a little over a year and knew what to expect, and I do realize that about our host. There’s nothing to dust off. I’m perfectly fine and know what goes on here, and I’m not bothered in the least. I’ve learned my narc lessons, my narc is out of my life, I’ve kicked the emotions and anxiety habits, and I’m happily rebuilding my life. Honestly, I guess I’m feeling zero impact about here. I’m very glad you’re here and hope you will continue to comment.
Hi Kel, you didn’t seem emotional at all. I just take those statements by them like a grain of salt. It’s their way of framing the narrative and dismissing what we say. I was also told that I was wallowing and seeking closure as if she can see me. I just don’t see this going anywhere. I tried to post a comment to you earlier but it must not have been sent as the page didn’t refresh properly. We have been having rain and some intermittent snow here which affects our internet. Anyway, I am totally feeling the Christmas spirit now and already decorating. It’s nice to see Julie comment back. I will definitely look her up if I ever get a chance to visit Australia! 😊 💕
ET doesn’t recognize ET as ET
Hi Mommypino, Wise words for sure, you’re absolutely right about the narrative and dismissing, and at some point you realize nothing’s registering, so you just have to stop. Thanks for letting me know I didn’t seem emotional too.
Christmas is wonderful, and I’m sure your house is decked out beautifully! Snow mix and the smell of chimneys burning firewood, it’s all just lovely. I didn’t realize you had two young children, as you said on another thread. That always makes Christmas even more fun.
I’m glad Julie is commenting too, and I like the example she sets and the clear cut logic. It might’ve been a little creepy, you looking her up on FB, Lol, but it was really nice to hear she has a great life and that you can back her up on what she simply stated to describe herself to people.
Merry Christmas! 💕
Lol it was kinda creepy indeed. But reading some of the exchanges in the thread and her saying that she can be looked up, I decided to look her up. I’m always curious about people and it is my guilty pleasure to look people up and learn more about them whether it’s a celebrity from a movie that I just watched or a person selling a second hand toy to me over the internet. At a Facebook group that I am a part of, when someone posts a problem, I also click to look at their profiles to see if I can see a picture of the narcissist or if they have kids or whatever I can see and for some reason it gives me more idea where they might be coming from and adds some context to their post.
Thank you Kel, we love Christmas so much. It’s the biggest season of the year for our family. My kids were saying that they actually love Christmas more than their birthdays. We do decorate a lot and it is fun with the kids. The one thing that I don’t think I will do though is Elf on a Shelf. I’m just not into it. But I want to start a tradition of making a Christmas cake where we make a regular cake with cheesecake frosting and put miniature nativity scene on it. I got the miniature nativity scene from amazon and it’s BpA free and only about two inches tall. I think that they will love that. I can also tell them the nativity story as we put the nativity on the cake.
Kel, I forgot to greet you Merry Christmas! My fingers were too fast to click ‘post comment’. I hope that the season is wonderful for you as well and stress free from the narcissists.💜🎄
I guess what I don’t understand about all of this is if there were some readers that were upset about the banter being out of control, why did no one talk to HG or email him directly? Why did they wait for someone to make aggressive accusations against the person they were irritated with? I get having an opinion, but all of this could have been avoided if the opinion was stated to the person in control of the moderation. It just seems that going directly to the one in charge, instead of standing behind the one who is publicly shaming one of the readers, would have been a more logical solution.
kel,
Either I missed this comment when you first posted it or HG approved it very late.
In either case, I am glad I see it now.
I see what you see.
I returned to this thread because HG replied to one of my comments a day or so ago and I was curious as to his other replies. I am disappointed that he didn’t leave the thread as it was. It seemed to have tidied up nicely via his pruning alone.
Certain observations needed to be made by me.
Where are all the male survivors?
I guess most have know idea what’s hitting them,or has hit them.Blaming themselves for the troubles in their relation.
Believing their narc partner is the only good thing in their lives.And after having been discarded thinking,”she did the right thing,i’m good for nothing”.
Stripped from their self-confidence,self-respect,and who knows what else.Maybe thinking about stripping themselves from their lives. I think that this happens a lot.They cant talk about these kind of problems,nor find the support like woman can.
These thoughts popped up while reading the comments.Yes,i might not give any the coming 24 months lol
Ashamed to admit they were taken in.
The only place where men can openly moan about this kind of thing is music. 80% at least of blues and country Western is about some heartless hussy using a guy and then walking out on him. You usually want to kill her or have her come back. Or both. In no particular.
Vandenboss: Many men read on here and do not post. Including male mental practitioners who study the work of HG Tudor. It was a male mental practitioner that first mentioned HG Tudor on his youtube channel, in my hearing, when my journey of study regarding all this started. And some men are still on here and still post, and some have been on here and have posted and still come back and report in at times, but in large, men in society are afraid to speak out, because they are victims and devotees to the destructive mantra and platitude called: Big Boys Don`t Cry (especially over women). Anyway, HG speaks out for them, as he discusses the male victims of Narcissistic book throughout his work, including his books and in his interviews and during forums, etc.
Thank you for your reply PSE!
I’m glad to hear many men and mental practitioners are visiting this site!
Although ‘many’ ain’t enough if you ask me. Only in mental health care it should be mandatory in my opinion .Not only to keep their colleagues,suffering from the same disorder,somewhat in line.
Also, i think to really understand this subject you need to have read HG’s work.
There’s no need to cry for men! I never did,its what the abuser wants.I believe it was described in the book Fuel. The point system with the multiplier, a crying ex gave the most points. I did have tears in my eye’s at one point. It was when i’d run into my ex,after years. When she walked away i saw how her behind had gained enormous mass,tears popped up in my eyes. Unfortunately for her she had her back towards me,so she could not see my reaction,no fuel for her at that point.
Why would men be ashamed to speak out about having been/or being entangled by a female narcissist,i ask myself.I mean,we are the first to admit that we listen to our….and only our …when it comes to asses whether a female would make a good partner or not.Whether they believe what they say or not does not matter. What matters is that most are not ashamed to express such an opinion.And sex is really the only excuse you need being a men,everyone will understand it than. Or at least i will lol
Vandenboss: Well, I am out of touch with men that are their twenties in such. The word on the streets are that men of that age are largely, going the other way, and do not want even a house, or even a car, and are not thinking of marriage, etc. and have tuned out in large numbers from the basic societal structure. Many live at home still with the economic burden. But men that are older were raised to not cry, and to hold everything inside. To not complain. With everyone, including their wives and girlfriends. But, somehow men are finding out about Narcissistic abuse that happens to men, but I do not know what happens and what steps they take, that they do find out. I find it interesting now to figure out how men find out they are with a narcissistic woman. And then go so far as to start learning about all this. Women are socialized more to ask for help and to search and buy on the internet. Many women find out on the internet, that they were dealing with Narcissism, I noticed from HG Tudor`s polls. Including myself. I never heard of such a dynamic. Men in general do not like to expose their personal pain and ask questions so much. Even on the internet as much as women. And they do not read magazines as much as women that often place relationship questions in the midst even in fashion and home magazines, relationship topics are often still blended in. So, I have no idea how men in general find out about narcissistic abuse, and that men could be victims of narcissistic abuse, and I never thought about this fact until now.
A friend pointed me out that i should talk to someone.At that point it was only a online friend.It didn’t make talking any easier since i had to type in a foreign language. He hooked me up with a uncle who is a psychologist.I did my story on skype and woke up.
I was all messed up at that point after a hoover that started 20 years ago,10 years after i had stopped seeing her,and the hoover last until today.I had never heard of a hoover let alone that i knew what it meant,i called it stalking extra ordinary then.
I had dated her a few years when i was in my early twenties.And again it started 10 years after the relation and last until today
I totally agree that men should not cry or complain. Instead i believe that a man should do anything he can when he finds out someone is going for his downfall,whether its a man or a woman.
Crying does not help nor does complaining! What does help is investigating what is going on and learning what to do about or how to live with the problem without the risk of a downfall.
HG is a victim of narcissistic abuse by a female,and so is his father,and his brothers. He dont have a problem talking about it and he is a narcissist! Keeping things inside is exactly what the abuser wants,male or female ,they operate practically the same. Maybe a female narcissist tents to use a more subtle approach on average. I think when that’s the case it only makes them more damaging in some way.
Vandemboss. I do not expect men to be like HG though. So we can make him the standard on how to learn about all of this. If I understand correctly, HG also was told about Narcissism via a psychologist or a psychology student. Well, that is not going to happen with a lot of men, unless there are more psychologists all over the place that I am not aware of. Vandemboss, you must complained or confided to that online friend, yes? Yeah…the Hoover. A Hoover is something that is just out of this world. Just amazing. Well, I am glad that you found out.
vandenboss,
You said, “What does help is investigating what is going on and learning what to do about or how to live with the problem without the risk of a downfall.”
My guess is that your having read HG’s material has you know that the the way “to live with the problem without the risk of a downfall” is to GOSO.
It’s almost completely risk-free (the risk is when you’ve wounded the wrong narc, I imagine).
Princess—I couldn’t reply above where you suggested feeling ganged up on. When I’m out of the app I don’t get notifications or a reply option in each spot. I never felt ganged up on so much as irritated briefly with HG for not simply saying, “Lorelei is a pain in the ass but not a narcissist.” (For instance) This too was a fleeting irritation and viewed as rude. Was it rude? Yes, Briefly in my view as he did he did breathe some life into the original protagonist knowing the “dangerous narcissist” piece was incorrect. It was a learning experience so all is well and I kept this in mind that there could be a net gain throughout.
I saw a brief clip of the thread you are referencing but only your initial comment—not the rest. I’ll look at it. My first thought though and why I comment is this reason.. I know one person who is undergoing a tremendous evolution and that is YOU. You are amazing and becoming increasingly fabulous. You are evolving at incredible speed so there is your answer. Stuff and people evolve:)
I don’t know. It’s not like they can’t be anonymous here. I see a few here and there.
Maybe they have a tough time admitting it to themselves (like they might have difficulty accepting if the were sexually abused, whether by a male or a female). Maybe they are not as strong as women in giving up the addiction to the narc.
Having been sexually abused by my ex ? I never looked at it from that point of few.Now that you mention it ….,i’ve gotten something good out of it after all !
Yes, we very much have an addiction problem,we think that we cannot find anything better. While in fact everything is better than staying.I think its for woman just as hard maybe harder because of children,fiscally not as strong when their partner has violence in his repertoire. I also believe a woman has a bigger chance getting entangled again when she lost a lot and/or needs male support
never looked at it from that point of few.Now that you mention it ….,i’ve gotten something good out of it after all !
Haha Such a male response.
I have an empath male friend who got ensared by a male narcissist he talks to me about the entanglement.
It depends on the person.
All gay men love to talk more then woman do lol Believe me he would talk to you about the abuse even if it never happened.
Indeed it depends on the person. I learned one thing from this all,the truth rules not the lie! I’m invincible as long as i stay honest and open. Shame and fear for the truth are the problems of the abuser. Not having this problem opens the way to victory!
vandenboss, My Somatic Narcx was abused by his aunt when he was a child. He was also seduced by a much older woman when he was younger teenager. Of course, the latter would seem like huge score for many men. He was certainly excellent in bed; I think she taught him everything he knew.
You are spot-on about a woman having a bigger chance getting entangled again when she loses a lot or has been dependent on male support–I’m sure it’s why hoovers work so well in many cases. The Knight in Shining Armor coming back for another rescue, and the like.
PSE.
My friend asked me what was eating me,we played an online game and i didn’t perform consistently.I was all too willing to talk about it.
I had seen 3 psychologist prior to that,because of a depression due to living isolated for years. Although i had spoken about my childhood and hoover by my ex and sister, the diagnose was post traumatic stress disorder each time and nothing else. 15 years ago narcissistic abuse officially did not exist over here.
During my treatment the third time i also spoke with a psychiatrist,he diagnosed me being schizophrenic.Within 15 minutes I was standing outside with a prescription in my hand. Luckily my psychologist was waiting outside,she took the prescription went inside and came back saying i was not schizophrenic and that i shouldn’t let anyone make me crazy.That was all the info and advice i had been given after 3 times 12 consults.
This year i have seen in total 6 metal practitioners. 2 psychiatrist(one a narcissist) She told me the hoover was in my best interest and that i should let go lol. I told her i weren’t the one not letting go.Someone was not letting go of me. Then she told me not think to much lol. From the 4 remaining practitioners 2 were narcissist as wel .Gaslighting me about everything and trying to diagnose me with psychosis this time.
I audio recorded each consult (over 40)It was the advice my friends uncle gave me,and it was good advice looking back.
My advice to others is, find good help! And when you are not sure tape record your sessions.They use words.So use their words in your defense,this can only be done when you have it recorded
I understood its all a big hoover,from the beginning until the end. And it ends when the victim or the abuser dies. I know this is true,im sorry to say.
Vandemboss. Wow. It is amazing that all that did not break your brains. Well, I am glad for you and me both that we found our way over here to Narcsite. You really dealt with a lot of trash with most of those mental workers. Well, it seems you escaped without them scrambling your brains. Congratulations. Many people turn into drones and mummies and automatons, dealing with those people. I live in a huge mental worker town, NYC, in the U.S.A. I see brains scrambled every day, by mental practitioners and their psycho drugs and their shock therapy and their isolation therapy, and many hate and despise their clients and sabotage them in many ways, and put many of their clients on whatever drugs give that will them the biggest payment kickback, from the drug companies, and who knows what else is in vogue to do to people right now, in that world. Beware beware. They did pass some laws that people could change their mental worker without explanation. But, the hapless people that need to change from these workers do not know they have rights. So Tragic. Some clients are `treated` by some of those those that are quacks until they die from the bad treatments or become wards of the state and institutionalized. HG Tudor`s information is phenomenal.
Vandenboss, “Yes,i might not give any the coming 24 months lol”. Haha you’ve been paying attention.
It is a shame that men feel like they can’t talk about these things. I’ve seen a few men post here but they don’t stay long. Its a shame because I’d like to here a man’s perspective of their relationship with a narcissist.
I thought at that time,that it was all normal.I even thought It was good at times.Although she used almost all the tools from the devils toolbox,including violence. We interpret violence as ”’she’s fighting for me”. It feeds our ego.
We like it,she cannot really fiscally hurt us,at least most of the time in most cases not. That she fought against me did not appear in my mind.And i know it dont in the mind of a lot of other men.
Vandenboss, who is “we” and “us”. I don’t understand. Are you saying men interpret violence this way?
Violence coming from their old lady yes ! I interpreted it this way,and i heard the same from a friend who went through the same. And i have seen a friend getting smacked in the face really bad in public by his girlfriend,and he interpreted it the same,with a look on his face like he’d just won the lottery.
‘She is fighting for me and our relation’. ‘She cares’ and so on.Emotional thinking is not only a female problem.
Vandenboss
I think it goes down to a lot of the behaviour of female narcissism being filed under “she was emotional”, “it was a crime of passion” or the plain old “she’s just crazy”. The men they pick will meet them halfway by downplaying or even romanticizing her behaviour (emotional thinking).
You stating that you thought it was normal made me think that you might have had familial relationships with narcissists as well, which primes you for more narcissistic abuse in the future.
And finally, men are conditioned to “toughen up” to “get over with” and to not show how it affects them. That would likely result in shame because of how their women treat them and that they don’t know how to counter it, so they would be less likely to openly talk about the abuse they suffered than female victims would.
Still think music is the exception, i.e. James’s “Laid.”
Maybe because then they can claim it’s just a creative persona.
Omg I love James’ “Laid,” though I was sorry she only came when she’s on top.
‘She is just crazy’ i forgot about that one. I think that s been said a lot and of course they are the ones interpreting it correct.They often don’t react correct and stay,or god forbid hit back.
Interpreting it as a crime passionel is in fact what i did. ‘She loves me’, ‘she cares’, she fights for me and our relation’, and all that blah blah.
You are right,my father is a narcissist and so is my sister. I believe my mother was what they call ,a invert narcissist. What does that make me lol? The abuse by my ex was as normal to me as the abuse by my father was,yes.
I did not complain while in the relation,only when she’d started her hoover after being 10 years apart. My father used to hoover me now and then when i had just left the house.But never in the way my ex and my sister are doing for so long now. He don’t have to,the two witches are doing all the work for him,he just sits back enjoying the show.
My experience with other men is that, when they don’t want to talk about a problem they also don’t want to think about it,or read about it,nor do anything else about it.
I think that’s where the problem for men arises. They get somewhat apathetic when faced with a problem that they cannot identify right away. Don’t want to talk ? Great,too much talking going on anyway! But do start thinking and reading !
Shame and fear for reality should be the exclusive problem of the abuser not the victim.
Who told us about personality disorder ? No one ! I believe its the last taboo. One can have a sex chance back and forth nowadays. But we cannot talk about such a big and common problem.
I think the reason for that silence is exactly because its such a big and common problem.
Vandenboss
I think you mean your mother was a “covert” narcissist. HG does not use that term as it is too broad and narcs of several cognitive functions use covert tactics. If your mother was indeed a narcissist as well, she might fit the Mid-Range category and your father the Lesser category.
Interpreting the suffered abuse as “normal” and trying to justify it by making excuses for the abuser (she does it because she cares about me etc.) are common signs of emotional thinking and can be lowered by a strict no contact regime.
As to what that makes you, you’re not a blend between your parents and whether or not you turn out to be a narcissist is determined by a mix between a lack of control environment in formative years (which you had because of the narcissists in your family) and a genetic predisposition for narcissism (which you evidently did not have).
From what little you’ve shared, you might have some co-dependent tendencies. Notice I am not saying you are a Co-Dependent necessarily. I cannot determine that and do not have enough information about you. If you’re curious about this, I recommend you do an Empath Detector. It was the first thing I did when I came here and has helped me tremendously in contextualising the information I’ve been given.
A female narcs antics can often fly under the flag of “women, am I right?” and not be given further consideration, the man is just expected to live with his misery or does not even want to share what is happening. Women often have a natural tendency to ruminate over what was said and done and discuss it with all their friends. While that is often not helpful and can even make matters worse, adressing it openly also makes it more likely one would look for the answers elswhere. Like here, for example.
Theres still lots that needs to be done with regards to raising awareness about NPD with the public and HG is the best source of information out there about how to spot narcs and deal with them. I think this is an issue that will only become more prevalent in the years to come but there have already been some mainstream news outlets speaking about narcissim with regards to the people they where reporting on, which is a good sign.
Desiree: I am fascinated that Vandemboss says that when the women become brash and violent it comes off as passion and that she is fighting for the man. I believe he is right about that. That stereotype of the passionate volatile female. She is considered to be so hot until they find out she is so hot all around town and then she breaks them financially and then ghosts them until it is time for a checkup hoover. These hot female stereotypes work in the favor of the female narcissists! I have wondered how they get away with so much. Some men have no clue at all about what they are dealing with. Remember the movie, Goodfellas, when the Brunette came and chastised the lead guy, after she had recently met him, for standing her up, or for something like that, in front of his friends? They all thought she was sassy and hot, after that performance.
PSE
There are also some women who interpret a certain hot-headedness in a man as passion and strength. It’s all ET (mixed in with some bad influences from movies and television) and I think for most that is evident once they wake up to it.
Southern humorist Florence King wrote about how a Jezebelle throwing a tantrum (or a vase, as Scarlett did) was a way of indicating hot blood in a time when women weren’t supposed to show sexuality overtly. Her face got flushed, her crimson mouth would tremble, she would shake with rage …it looked and sounded like an orgasm.
I asked my dad if he would consider counselling and cry it all out (we were discussing his personal life.) and he said “I can’t do that I’m a man.”
It’s 2019 and people still oppress themselves with these BS gender expectations.
I think it may take longer for men to realise they are/have been abused because they don’t talk about these things. I’ve had men tell me that they don’t feel comfortable speaking to other men about their problems because they would probably get laughed at, or their friend would just suggest that they get drunk.
vandenboss please lead the way on here
Speaking for myself,i couldn’t exactly point out what was hitting me.
I mean,i knew it was an ex and my sister that were infiltrating my life in anyway they could. But i didn’t knew why they did it.
When I’d tried to talk to them about it,i was met with fury. Which i found strange,since they both play the Mother Theresa,Holy Maria role all day.
My sister once just gave me the strangest smirk i had ever seen,and then said nothing for minutes.It was when i’d tried explained to her what their underhand interference in my life did to me,so wrong for me to do, i know now.
For years i thought i was the only one with this problem. I thought it was normal behavior from their part and me being over sensitive.
Also,i couldn’t explain all the assistance they reserved,from what used to be friends of mine.I could feel the hate and envy,but again,couldn’t explain why.I mean,at that time there was little left of my life,i was still breathing.That was the only thing left,i was homeless at that point.I thought being homeless would make them lose interest but it didn’t
Before i got homeless i had isolated myself for years, and couldn’t keep a job for long.
This ex projects her alcohol use onto me,strangest thing i have ever experienced.She really believes it is me and not her drinking lol. I don’t like to drink ! I smoke weed and don’t make a secret about it.
During my isolation i had studied a game that i played on the internet and found somewhat of a network of online friends. The most of these players are somewhat intelligent ,good in math as well as psychology.It was one of these friends that started to ask questions,why it was that i couldn’t perform at times.
He brought me in contact with a psychologist.I told him my story and he told me i had a big problem.
Now what he told me was the same as what i d found out for myself a few years prior when i had googled the word ‘stalking’. But when i found out for myself,i just couldn’t belief this was the case for my sister and this ex.
I mean a quick google tells you its 1% of the population and mostly men suffering from a personality disorder, i know better today.
So when the bell finally started ringing it kept ringing. I found out my sister looks a lot like our father.And i found out this ex wasn’t the greatest partner on earth and i’m not the worst ,which i’d always believed,(a strange belief looking back now).
I identified all the narcissist from the past as well as from the present .
Humor has always been my coping strategy for everything.I can tell you i couldn’t find any humor in this at first,it took a while.
Everything from the past had been a big lie.Which was hard to find out at first,but great when i thought about it for longer.
I mean i’m not the black sheep in the family anymore,nor anywhere else lol , Of course few will admit that but who care’s.
This is my story in real short. Its not hard for me to talk about it in long,its just hard to explain because its always too crazy for words. I know most of you only need halve a word to understand because of your own experiences with this subject
Sometimes i read a comment from someone saying,he or she thinks they have a narcissist in their lives.Then i think ‘where do you live,rent me your basement’. 🙂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0trh9Y598fM
Met my narc on the beach 2017. A gorgeous 21yr old. (Im34) She lived in colorado I live in fl. After a year of long distance with a couple visits of love bombing she decided to move to my town to be near me so we could have a relationshit. She ghosts me a month before she is supposed to move in town. Then shows up with her stripper girl friend and pushes me away. Says I’m not what she thought I was and says I’m financially not good enough. I stick around trying to make it work as she does a push push pull. She begins accusing me of cheating which I’m not. It’s crazy how she would go about it too like “you think this” and “you’re that” just pulling it all out of her arss… Then she discards me and I catch her at the beach with another man. I yelled and got upset and emotional. She kept a smerk trying to hold the smile back the entire time. She loved it so much she even sent me a bunch of nude pics to my phone that night which left me confused. She then accused me of being a pedophile and also said she was now dating the girl from the bar. After a few months she hoovers me into coming back and love bombs me and the sex is amazing. Having the most beautiful girl in town on your arm as a man makes you feel high. Everyone wants to look and it’s satisfying. I’m starting a new business in another town. The whole time she tries to spend all my start-up money and tells me to sell the business property to be with her. She says she wants to come on my trip to Europe and I find a cheap ticket on the same flight as mine. When we get to Europe she is not satisfied with just visiting Denmark. She wanted to see “at least two other countries” I said impossible then she wanted to cut the trip in half so I reschedule our tickets and pay the fees. When we get back she audio tape records her best friend and her husband and tells me about it to see if “they are talking 5hit about her” the relationship goes thru lots of push and everything is my fault a girl looked at me and that means I’m cheating then my birthday rolls around october28 she ghosts me. I’m a level headed guy so I just ignore it but I was furious then she begins to disrespect me blatantly knowing my insecurity she uses that and throws it in my face. She did that twice to me and I decided enough was enough so I deleted all her images, threw away everything of hers from my place and went no contact. The very next day she insults me, calls me names and then when no response she says the relationships over and that I have big nostrils lol then she realizes I’ve gone NC and she says she misses me and wants to ride my D. Then she says she wants to see me and then she come by my house I’m not home she calls about 50 times “wanting to talk” everything she blamed me of she was doing herself. She gave nothing and when I mean nothing I mean nooooothing to the relationship. She once took away a paper towel I wanted to wipe somethkng down she would not give anything I mean nothing nothing nothing not even a square of her toilet paper to wipe your arss. She only took and when at my house would take hour long showers, make mess expect me to clean up acting like a child. Everything was a hypocrisy. All the rules all the accusations all the gass lighting all the devaluing I can’t explain it all on this message board I could write a book on this woman a total manipulator I’ve only put a small fraction of this persons toxicity on this post. This woman wanted to destroy me I feel like she wanted to see me die and for what? I rubbed her feet, told her she was beautiful, bought her food, drinks, took her out, trip to Europe nothing was ever good enough and I got noooooothing in return. Narcs are the most selfish people. I am a giving person. The last 5 relationshits I have had turned out to be narcs. I’m a magnet for them. I kept thinkin “I’m doing something wrong” and in some sense I was in inableing them by giving so much of myself and being open and vulnerable. I’m not learning of narcs and relize my father and brother and best friend are narcs. My mom is one of the purest persons on the planet and a true empath. She was mentally tortured by my father a discarded after 40 years and 6 kids. I feel for her pain. She is okay now. I love her so much for giving me empathy
These comments hurt my head. But I have never for a second thought Lorelei as a narcissist.
I commend my fellow Empaths for their considerable restraint dealing with Julie.
Julie: Whoever said that non-narcississts do not need attention? Wow. And life is cyclical. Sometimes we need attention more than other times. Problems occurs when we need attention and can not find it. And, I have witnessed people on here needing more attention and then less attention, and also needing less attention and then needing more attention. It is cyclical. When I started my GOSO regime, I was almost on here 24 hours. I had insomnia. That is when I realized that HG Tudor sleeps very little. I was amazed. So, determining when someone is out of bounds , and their need for attention is too overwhelming, is the job of the moderator. Many of our lives are in crisis, so if we need to speak, let us speak. And we are not afraid on here. I wish it would stay this way. If we are out of bounds, HG stops it, or puts our comments in moderation, or prunes it when necessary. Few have been so uncouth that they had to be banned. And we have a lot of freedom of speech on here, and this is one of the last bastions for freedom of speech. If someone happens to be a Narcississt, or high on the Narcissistic spectrum, if HG determines they shall have a voice for whatever reason for enlightenment purpose, it is fine with me, or I could always leave. I speak up for Lorelei, because she is one of the people that listened to my long drawn out maudlin and mopish posts about the somatic and his 4 lieutenants that I have been entangle with. Some could have told me to shut up and get on with it. But she helped me with my catharsis and listened to me on and on. She went by another name then, but I still remember her. Plus, she is a role model to me, in her own way. She also works and keeps a family together and deals with a somewhat hostile extended family in her narcissistic dynamics, and her children and finances and her career and custody, plus her children are in the years where they are most trying and very impressionable and she carries it all, and still works on improving herself. Also , she works in a field that deals with a lot of the people that have been written off and she helps worn out and destroyed women, and many of us could not withstand the medical issues she deals with on a first hand basis with her clients. And regarding pubic figures and celebrities, I know that the law and public figures understand their many roles and even their esoteric roles. They want to be thought about and talked about, or they have no value, also for the newspaper industry, 24 hour news coverage, for entertainment, and so forth. And they know this and their publicist and their attorneys know this. And we are always on their minds and our wallets are always on their minds, so they discuss us as well, and call many of us sheep. So be it. Anyway, I did not want to jump in, but it is not fair for the blue touch paper to be lit against Lorelei, and then I do not see all the good she is doing mentioned as well. And I do not want to see the new people that you are worried about , just to see your take on her. She is a fierce and strong female, and many females would have folded with her entire back story. If you wanted a female to have your back, or needed a female to have your back, one would be lucky to have Lorelei on the list. People like each other on here as well as anywhere else in life. But, no one is afraid to raise their point of view, because we enjoy the way the site is moderated. So no cliques as you say are on here. People knowing about each other and liking each other is not always with the negative connotations of a clique. Anyone on here is free to disagree or agree with each other on any given day, and it happens ALL the time. I may sound strong now, but I am around 7 months into my GOSO regime, and I barely survived dealing with my infatuation with a Narcississt as a secondary source and having no intimacy with him. And no matter what a person says, we have no idea of how they feel inside. Including how Lorelei feels inside: Sometimes, many of us have to roar to keep the tears at bay. And Lorelei, forgive me if I gave up too much of your back story, but I felt the need, in this case, because I felt the sample size in the timeframe of the discussion that I was reading about you and your personaliity, was WAY too small.
Julie: Also, some women do look like they have fish-lips with some of that plastic surgery. All surgeons are not artists, and some women need to S L O W D O W N, with all of that , and maybe no one is telling some of them the honest truth to help slow them down before they are full of regret as some say they are later. And then they try to hide the disaster by wearing nude lipstick, but it does not work. It is just putting nude lipstick on fish-lips. But, I guess some would be called anti-woman to tell them to check themselves before they wreck themselves. Anyway, I wish we could all just get along, as a famous man once said.
Lorelie: Do not lose any sleep over it all. This stuff happens. It happened to me once on another site. I was new on the site for about a month, and the moderator put a revered coffee cup by name whenever I made a comment. It was so cool! And then one reader said that it was not fair that I had received this honorable cup because I was new on the site and she had been on the site for over 2 years, and the moderator explained that the cup was not awarded because of time spent, but because of content and voice, etc. etc., and then some readers said this and that and the other, all about whom should get these cups. Hahahaha. It was incredible. My favorite comment was when one reader said about me: “She deserves that cup. Everythng she says is true, even though I do not usually agree with her.“ Lorelei: It is crazy sometimes to be discussed like this, but it happens. I forgot about the cup incident until now. Anyway, I left that sites, after leaving them some links to Narcsite, to come over here to HG Tudor and I never went back. Not over the cup incident, but because I like it here and made the change. Plus, I never asked for that cup. But, I did like it. hahaha. So, these things happen, Lorelei. One day it is you, and another day it is someone else. Not me, I hope: I am still exhausted over the cup incident.
Lol revered ☕️
That’s it we need these next to our gravatars 😉
But why was it a coffee cup, PSE? That seems so oddly specific. Why not a chilli pepper…or a stick of dynamite!
Was it the blonde who likes sparkly pink and different coloured nail polish and has a lot of lipstick and uses a different coffee cup every day and tells us about the coffee cup? I got booted off that forum for telling someone how we can come sometimes come off as “thirsty”
Woke: LOL!! The cup was nicer than that one. And larger. And the coffee steam actually moved from side to side, with a wave motion. And only the moderator could give one a cup. And then your post went through without being moderated, if you had the cup. I am sort of new to being active on social media, so I felt sort of important with that cup. hahaha. Woke, I was surprised when I received that cup, as well. I thought it was a mistake, so I checked quietly on DM and inquired, and yes, I had it. Oh well, I left that site for my own personal growth reasons regarding my need to learn about Narcissism dynamics, about a month later, and not over the one-time cup event.
Love to you Princess—just a quick reply—the supportive thoughts are immeasurably received as lovely.
Thank you Princess—I didn’t realize you recalled my former name. I also won’t get a reply via WP on this reply to you because of where I’m accessing your comment. (Through safari and not the app)
Lorelei: I remember, because a second person jointed the postings with the same name, a while back, and I was wondering how I was going to keep it all straight, and then you announced in some posts, publicly, that you were going to change to Lorelei, and you solved that 2 with the same name situation, that I was faced with. And if I remember correctly, you said that you always liked the name Lorelei and that it was a family name, or something similar to that, But yes, I remember how you listened to me. And I still remember your former name.
Thanks Princess! Yes, another Claire came along at that time.
Lorelei, we haven’t spoken or met yet, forgive me for participating in this before introducing, but I feel very sorry for what you had to go through the last 2 days. I hope you can leave this behind you and get on with the good things, but I certainly understand why you were hurt.
Let me very clear with what I am about to say.
Lorelei’s behaviour as much as mine that has been tested.
I see the evidence of her behaviour logically and not emotionally.
I am sure She is great at her job, that doesn’t mean she is not accountable for her behaviour
An an empathic individual these are some the traits that define them
1. do not gaslight
2. seek to help, we go above and beyond to explain ourselves, want to be liked
3. empathise and feel others emotions
4. naturally intuitive
5. seek to fix and heal
I see none of that in lorelei’s behaviour, I see these traits
1. Constant pity plays
2. Sulks
3. She takes criticism poorly
4. She thinks in black and white
5. Her low self worth, comes out as attacking women who are perceived to have more than her, jealousy.
6. She does not empathise with me, or come to anyone defence but herself.
7. Her grandiose self, im a smart ass, im badass blah blah
8. Did not allow others to speak, wants HGs constant and undivided attention.
9. Participates in word salad where she cannot explain something in great detail with factual evidence.
10. Does not feel bad for hurting another’s feelings.
We have all had toxic friends. We all want to think everyone is not an asshole.
As I have no feelings towards anyone on this site (friendships)
I see dynamics, cliques and people excusing other people behaviours.
Did anyone actually feel bad for exposing what I do for a living? Did anyone say hey that’s a boundary that should not be crossed. No, its a 2 way street, you can’t Have your anonymity and think its ok to behave in such a manner and think you are above it.
I do not run to HG, I have been on this site for 2 years reading and watching the dynamic. I coment every now and then, i knew what would happen if i spoke.
Pitch forks and ganging up with a mentality of emotional thinking and not using rational logic.
This a blog, this isn’t your real life, you cannot claim to have true friendships when none of you know who each other is.
You have a shared experience, which is great and helpful in unlocking what you need in order to move on in your situations, I sometimes see people swapping an addiction with a narc to constantly being on this site and not living your life fully.
Yes we all need connection, yes we seek to be seen and heard. This site is also a business, where people want to come and seek information and talk about their experiences and pay for services just like any other business.
They don’t necessarily want to know what you ate for lunch, what dress you want to wear and how many men you want to fuck. It is not your personal blog, its a shared service for men and women to feel comfortable about talking bout narcissistic abuse..and going no contact, with some added stories. Again, I will continue to be on the blog should I chose, to those people who have found what I say to resonate, cool, im glad.
There is a place for everybody, not just for 10 people to chat about their lives day in and out.
How about collective sharing and asking and combating narcissistic abuse.
We are all human, we have civil unrest, school shootings , bushfires, displaced people, dangerous people leading countries.
Today I have to tell former refugees that, due to their of English, they will not have a job this Xmas
I have people on the phone crying they can’t make mortgage repayments, or due to slow economy they are not needed and therefore will have no work over Xmas. And then there will be others who have work and do show up..We all.have important jobs to do.
That doesn’t mean, I cry with them, I support them as much as I can and motivate to keep moving forward.
PSE: you mentioned what you gained the most out of this thread. For me it was the best , EVER- demonstration – in my life and this includes 25 years coparenting with a narc- of how true HG’s words are when he says we might as well bang our head against a brick wall.
During the course of this conversation this became crystal clear to me in a way I had not seen before.
Say something nasty ? *BOUNCE*
Say something nice. ? *BOUNCE*
Say something using LT ? *BOUNCE*
Say something using ET ? *BOUNCE*
Nothing gets in. NOTHING. It’s fail safe.
When I started to really see how this was happening, I tried to change tack for a moment because I wanted to investigate a couple of things I had on my mind (namely what sort of damage is this person having on the outside world?)
I think I got maybe one or two sentences of actual dialogue, and then *BOUNCE*
She still thinks that Lorelei lied abt her birthday ffs!
That’s how little actual information is getting through.
So not only was this helpful in honing my flushing out skills and my awareness, it demonstrated something that I really clearly had not totally grasped and now I do. The brick wall. It’s jaw-dropping.
You’re literally just talking to yourself. And I guess when you see that that’s when you stop you know what I mean?
My kids dad, being a lesser, would not have been able to engage this long and would’ve stormed off in a huff about 499 comments ago. I understand the brick wall with the lesser because they make it so obvious.
I had not understood the brick wall with a mid ranger until now.
I dare say I will be revisiting a few moments in time with my MMR in my head over the next few days and seeing them for what they were because now I get it.
You really are in a relationship with a ghost! They are not there in the relationship with YOU at all. Even the mid rangers that can talk a good game —they’re really. not. THERE.
Or, to be more accurate- YOU’RE really not there. In THEIR world. –
But At least WE can go talk to the other 5/6 ppl in the world .
I kinda got the creeps to be honest. I can’t imagine living your whole life with one and then realizing this—-. Like what a waste. My GOD.
Imagine spending 50 years isolated from the rest of the world, and living with a ghost and not realizing it – and then when you’re like 70 you wake up and realize you’ve spent your entire life without anyone knowing you exist
Fuck meeee.
Woke: I have another fail safe. After 3 years of a group of 5, and 4 of them actual opponents, five days a week, I am actually very tired. So, it is easy for me to *Bounce* hahahaha!!!
I think most of us have learned more than a thing or two.
On the bright side: at least you aren’t a client!
It’s actually so sad
Really hitting me tonight
These were people once. These were children . And there’s nothing to be done to help them.
Now all I can picture them as are like – that DR Who episode
“Are you my Mummy?”
Woke, I was browsing through comments because I wanted to re-read with a clear mind. I ran across this comment and my jaw literally dropped. I know I read it last week but the gravity of your words didn’t sink in until right this moment. You explained perfectly my life this last few years and what I’ve been fighting inside of me.
The brick wall, if you’ve experienced the brick wall with a Mid you know there’s no point going any further in conversation with that person. Your done, end of story, nothing is getting through. I can identify the brick wall fairly easily and when I do, I shut down immediately. This is my own personal defense mechanism.
Being in a relationship with a ghost. Ill never forget HGs words in The Devastation of the Illusion “The one thing that will never leave is that deep-seated pain that you loved a ghost.” He is right, I know now, that i never loved him but I fear that deep-seated pain of losing a love that I wanted so bad will live inside of me forever, no matter how “ok” I am now.
“You really are in a relationship with a ghost! They are not there in the relationship with YOU at all. Even the mid rangers that can talk a good game —they’re really. not. THERE.
Or, to be more accurate- YOU’RE really not there. In THEIR world. –
But At least WE can go talk to the other 5/6 ppl in the world” .
“I kinda got the creeps to be honest. I can’t imagine living your whole life with one and then realizing this—-. Like what a waste. My GOD.”
My GOD is right. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Woke and Mercy,
Thank you both for the insightful comments about ghosts. I think we try so hard because we don’t want to disappear. I just posted that after MRN sent me two dick pics and then went silent for three weeks, I sent him a picture of me, my face, nothing else, because I was trying to get him to see ME rather than a collection of body parts. I used to tease him about it but in point of fact it really bothered me from the get go. So all of my explosions etc were about demanding to be seen and validated. It is the same with Matrinarc. She doesn’t send me dick pics lol but it is the same struggle to be seen and validated.
Some of us were in intimate relationships with narcs, some of us were raised by them and some of us both, but in all cases, narcs = erasure. Do we say it is a waste to have been born?
SMH,
I had a moment last night when I read wokes comment and then again this morning when reading yours. I don’t get sad often anymore. The relationship is what it was and I can’t change the past. But, every once in a while something like yours and wokes comments will hit me hard. I’m sorry about matrinarc. As a child I can’t imagine how that would feel. It’s very hard for me to think about the children in these situations because I can’t fix it and they are innocent. I think what’s important to remember here is the ghost isn’t us, it’s them. They are invisible. There is nothing solid or stable there. So no, it’s not a waste to have been born, it’s a waste to give thought to what never was. Thank you for reminding me of that.
Wise and kind words, Mercy. Don’t be sad! The comments just got me thinking because if we think of ourselves as being destroyed, then we have to accept that those of us who have dealt with this our whole lives (HG included) are already destroyed before we even get entangled with a narc in an intimate relationship. I don’t feel that way about matrinarc – she did not destroy me and neither did MRN. I am not sure what the lesson is, to be honest. My mother actually said to me a few months ago that she is a shitty mother. She tried to excuse it by saying that she had a poor relationship with her own mother. But my thought was so did I mom, so did I. Yet I have a very good relationship with my son. Maybe the answer is to treasure what we do have rather than to beat ourselves up about what we did not have? As you say, not to waste our breath giving thought to what never was.
Mercy
When the reality of the brick wall hit for me- all leftover investment in resolving anything – ever – left. With all 3 narcs in my world.
I was moving this week and got my 1 year total NC with narcoholic and missed it.
🎉 🎈
Tomorrow is 2 months total NC with my MMR also.
For me the brick wall was easiest to spot with my lessers. They’re so obvious about it. Shut up, Fuck you, stork off in a huff.
The mids talk a good game and Use the mind fuckery manipulations and I don’t realize at first the brick wall. In this thread it took me several back and forth comments to suddenly see it so clearly : *BOUNCE*
—
Re: the ED test doubt;
I also noticed that deflection and was surprised J agreed she’d take the test but that was a future fake I’m guessing.
WokeAF, congrats on 1 year lady! That’s a huge accomplishment. And, the fact that you missed it tells you even more. Sounds like zero impact!
If I ever run into the brick wall again I’m always going to remember BOUNCE. Maybe instead of getting frustrated it’ll make me laugh.
Nice catch on the future faking. I didn’t pick up on that. So many lessons learned here.
Lorelei,
Ain’t no sticks pelting you, ain’t no stones thrown. If someone on the blog calls you a narc, and you know you are not, don’t sweat it. It is your “feels” causing you to react, but your logic says “nope, not true!” Sticks and stones can break your bones (and fists and kicks and weapons) but names can no longer hurt you. I’ve been called a cunt, a whore, told that I am nothing, a loser. I’ve been punched and knocked out several times (many years ago). Words can bruise, also, but your investment in understanding narcissism, your self-reflection, and your personal growth have equipped you with the ability to triage any emotional injuries. And remember, your logic and knowledge are in tact. You are a grown woman, a mom, a professional, etc.. You do not need another person’s validation ever again because now you know yourself. Do the best you you can be!
Love,
Cunt, Whore, Slut, Loser, Nothing, a.k.a. E
Take good care of you, sweet FM1T. I understand your feelings regarding certain comments on the blog (they certainly reveal more than the writers intend). Spend some time with nature and your loved ones and come on back. You are loved and appreciated by most of us here and we will look forward to your return.😘
Omg I feel so dumb. When HG said Julie is not a NOOB I somehow translated it to mean he said she is not a narcissist and I don’t question HG on these matters. I was driving myself nuts because every comment made by her pointed to narcissist. After looking up NOOB (does anyone actually use words anymore?), I realize he did not confirm or deny she’s a narcissist. I normally wouldn’t do this for fear I am wrong but since she put herself out there im using it as a learning experience.
1.When asked if she considered how damaging her words could be she responded
“What you are seeking is for me to pity her, true compassion comes from understanding her nature, if she doesn’t deny she does these things, then yes I would come back with compassion and understanding”.
-Lack of empathy, assertion of superiority
2.“Remember people who feel bad actually feel bad. And correct said behaviour. No black or white thinking. Lorelei sees people as bad or goodI don’t believe I have demonstrated said thinking, I’ve covered alot of grey”.
-Projection, blameshifting, invalidation
3.“I’m very good at what I do, plus I worked 16 years in security I know how to handle myself. Blood, vomit, fights and drunk women kicking you lol I’m well aware people can Google me lol I have also dated famous people in my past and have been talked about. It does not bother me.”
-Grandiosity
4. “Narcissism is on a spectrum, im not saying Lorelei is disordered I’m saying she has many many narcissistic traits, its obvious. Which I have highlighted”
-Rewriting History, denial
5. “Im am also hoping her attitude towards other females becomes more of a supportive one and less of what was on this blog, I also hope she empathises with what it feels like to be judged and ridiculed.its not very nice, the feeling of being attacked”
-Assertion of superiority, lack of empathy, blameshifting (side note, an aware empath would know there’s no HOPE for a narcissist)
6. “I also see women play victim, its his fault, he did this and did that, when actually it’s you who is doing it to yourself. How bout we act like grown mature women and take ownership of our shit and have constructive conversations with other people, instead of talking about things 9 year old girls would find funny”.
-Invalidation, assertion of superiority, lack of empathy, insult, triangulation
There’s way more but I’m already taking up too much room. Please critique anyone, Im really trying to learn the differences in gaslighing
good summary .
I’m getting much better at recognizing and labelling the manipulations now- I’ve even begun to educate my teen son and he’s actually (correctly) identifies an instance of triangulation at school – it was awesome and him being autistic this helps protect his innocent lil heart.
I do appreciate the ppl who have a talent for the whole Search out, copy paste , breakdown thing. It’s time consuming but appreciated very much as it’s immensely helped my learning
And if done without hostility and in the interest of education not to “win” I’m all for it
Anyhow you can’t win with a narcissist. Ha ha
WokeAF, good idea on educating your teen son. I’ve talk to one of my girls about NPD and recognizing manipulation but she’s currently dealing with an ex narc. I wish I knew about this stuff when they were younger.
I can recognize the manipulation pretty easily because of what happens to me mentally during conversation. I’m sure everyone experiences that feeling of recognition in some way if they’ve ever been exposed to a narcissist for a period of time. What I struggle with is the labels. WP is not very user friendly when it come to searching key words and such. I rely heavily on resources and I haven’t found a good way to organize the things I learn here for reference. I need to roll my sleeves up, join the classroom and do the hard work.
Yesterday what tipped me over the edge on my thinking is that I kept remembering an audio HG did about narcissist vs narcissistic. Someone that is not a narcissist at some point would have paused and thought to themselves “I could be wrong” even if they strongly believed they were right. That did not happen yesterday, right or wrong she was right in her mind and that’s all that mattered.
Well all the manipulations were there WITH that foggy confused sensation they give you with their toxic logic but I gotta stay in LT-and always have room for new information that could show she’s just a jerk not a narc
But what tipped me over was she would never really address what was said- just go off on a monologue of disjointed grandiose sentences that might have well have been picked out randomly from a self help book.
Also she would speak of “what an empath would do” in a rote, memorized way- i have high contagion element so I had visceral impressions of disconnect between her and her words about Empaths but I always have to double check that stuff against my ET bc it can be hard to differentiate what I’m feeling, (any ET reactions to what’s being said ) from what I’m picking up impression-wise from the other person
I’m a bit dumbfounded at the “if someone told me I was humble —“ “I’m humble enough, thanks” volte face (is that volte face? Or just contradiction?)
That was STUNNING
Correct Woke! You can’t win because they use any means to ruin birthdays! It’s so transparent though that it’s childish. All machinations are rudimentary and not as well devised as to the naked eye!
Lorelei
Having caught up more on this conversation, I want to apologize to you for not chiming in and defending you on this matter. I looked at some of her posts but all I read was “Hello, I am a Mid-Ranger and I write long-winded meandering stories of woe”, so I didn’t follow it until she called herself a SE and patted myself on the shoulder for calling it early. Don’t let it get you down, you are a lovely person and you did not deserve to get attacked like this. Let me know if I can do something nice for you, maybe get you some lipgloss and a plushy coat. Also, Happy belated Birthday! Damn I saw Pati commenting somewhere your’s was coming up but there was no date mentioned!!! Do you want some Fondue?
Interesting. Do you suspect it was your birthday that subconsciously spurred the whole thing?
Not sure what spurred what or what you mean as I can’t see the statement I made prior to your comment. It was a generally crap day due to two unrelated issues. This was a minor inconvenience whereas it’s generally a reprieve of sorts.
I understand, but be truthful and say, sorry it’s not my birthday. People just don’t go around claiming it’s their birthday, it was used to manipulate people and bring pity. Again these are my thoughts.
It is my bday—July 20th is my truly special day for other reasons.. When do we get make up sex Julie? The dungeon is cold.
I’m not as nice as HG, this type of behaviour does not work on me. Nice try though
Oh, Gawd!
Julie,
I am almost totally with you on this (my amateur diagnosis would be slightly different).
However, what is driving me crazy about your posts are phrases like, “Again these are my thoughts.” or “But hey just my opinion.”
Please just state what you think full stop.
Thanks lisk and yes can do that.
Julie you are critical, adversarial, and boastful.
I’ll say something positive Julie. If you used your full name as a way to promote your business then that was a smart idea. Maybe bad execution but you did draw attention.
Hi Whitney, I’ve been posting on this site as myself since November 2017. Nothing to do with business. I would prefer that people didn’t know, however I cannot change that now.
Oh yes I did see HG said you’ve been posting a long time here, Julie. Posting a long time on boards is even better. But not your intention- I understand!
HG – if someone is harassed on the blog – outside of any proper conversational context – do you delete the comments?
If a comment is gratuitous and offensive it is removed. I allow a robust exchange of views, that is important.
Nobody gets bullied on this blog.
If a person comes here and make an assertion, there will often be a response. Sometimes that response is a strong one. That does not equate to bullying.
If a person makes an assertion without supporting evidence, there will often be a response correcting that error. That does not equate to bullying.
If a person makes an observation and others disagree with that assertion and their disagreement is robust, that does not equate to bullying.
There are certain individuals who like to charge in and basically throw comments around which have no basis and then act all hurt and surprised when readers point out, reasonably yet firmly, that this individual is wrong. They will fall back on comments such as
“I am being bullied.”
“HG´s lieutenants attacked me.”
“You x are just HG´s lieutenant.”
“I only expressed an opinion and I get attacked.”
Such comments are inaccurate and speak volumes about the issuer.
If someone kept writing “X you are a fucking shithead.” That comment would be deleted.
If someone wrote “I disagree with you X because of a, b and c I and I cannot understand how on earth you can write what you write. That is a ridiculous thing to state.” That comment is permissible.
If someone harangues another individual without basis, those comments are deleted, for instance there was a commenter who was jealous of the interaction of other readers with me and would regularly post comments such as “X you think you are HG´s favourite” and “X only writes this because she loves HG” and “X is an ass kisser to HG” Such repeated comments serve no purpose and are deleted.
I do allow considerable latitude to allow people to articulate their views. People should know that if you come here and express a strong view, then you can expect a strong response and you cannot then play the victim about evoking a strong response.
HG, Your comment:
“If a comment is gratuitous and offensive it is removed. I allow a robust exchange of views, that is important.
Nobody gets bullied on this blog.
If a person comes here and make an assertion….”
Please post your comment in its entirety on the formal blog information. I think it would be very helpful since these types of comments appear frequently. Thanks in advance.
I shall consider doing so, thank you FYC.
HG, I am not asking this to challenge you, I know this is your blog and you’re letting me comment. But what exactly is gratuitous and offensive? When K called lisk an idiot, does that not meet the criteria of being gratuitous and offensive? I just want to understand the guidelines better so that I wouldn’t be under the impression of unfairness when my comments are deleted while attacks against me are not. I would like to know clearly what the guideline is that I have to follow to avoid possible frustrations and perception of bias from you. I hope that my question is understandable.
MP, Read the Rules, Rule 5
“I encourage interesting and articulate debate. The nature of this blog is an emotive subject and strong views are to be expected. I allow people to disagree and to do so in a robust fashion for the purposes of debate. This may mean the occasional insult linked to the comment being advanced. I enjoy debate. However, sustained ad hominem attacks against people do not further debate and those will be moderated and removed. Feel free to advance your opinions, arguments and views and to question other people, do so with force and passion, but do so in a respectful and constructive manner.”
K calling List an idiot falls under “the occasional insult linked to the comment being advanced”. It is not a sustained ad hominem attack, that is what becomes gratuitous and offensive. Hence it was allowed through. Whether K was right to write such a thing falls open to discussion, she thinks so, others will disagree. Lisk is perfectly capable of handling herself on this blog and has demonstrated so on repeated occasions. I do not always agree with Lisk, often I do, but I recognise her ability to advance her observations and views. She can look after herself. K does not like you, you do not like K – we all get that, so it is far more effective if you two just do not interact with one another and both desist from any oblique references to one another also. Neither of you will endorse anything the other says, even when you recognise it to be a fair point, because you have reached entrenched positions.You have posted several comments perpetuating this matter unnecessarily. There are also comments seeking to curry favour by “buddying up” with those who oppose those you oppose – the enemy of my enemy is my friend approach. This is transparent and unwelcome. It is becoming tedious. I am not mediating the dispute between the two of you (1 – I have no inclination or obligation to do so, 2. I do not have time and 3. It is fruitless, you are in entrenched positions with one another) Instead, I am sending you to sit in separate areas of the lecture theatre and suggest you avoid one another in the common room going forward. This forum has plenty of room for you both to express your views, converse with others, without this continued passive aggressive sniping. I know K will read this comment so my instruction in this regard will be heeded by her also.
I would invite you to halt your repeated references to being attacked. This is the only polite warning you will receive. The Ed thread was closed. You breathed new life into it and you did so in detail and NarcAngel justifiably pointed this out to you. I know you are not an unpleasant person MP but your ET is causing you to keep matters going and going when it is no longer required. Note how Julie made her points, responded to others and then she moved on. She is entitled to assert her view, others will agree with it, others will disagree with it, she stated her view, responded to people questioning it and then has got on with other matters.
As I have stated previously, I allow people to articulate their views. I also provide considerable latitude to people with regard to their discussions, this is not a completed rigid line, there is some flexibility, so on some days spiralling discussions will be curtailed faster than others, this is linked to the time I have available to moderate which is linked to other demands on my time in terms of my private and personal lives and also other blog matters such as addressing consultations, promotional matters and writing new material. Accordingly, this is the reason why one week I may allow a particular discussion about Off Topic B to last longer than the previous weeks Off Topic A.
Other comments of yours have bene in moderation (like those of many others) because of the volume and as you have all seen I have been away. I will get to them and moderate them and no doubt the majority, if not all, will be posted alongside those of other people but this is not to be taken as an opportunity by you or anybody else to perpetuate the debate/discussion/argument.
I am now drawing a line under it.
You should all now be writing to Santa anyway and then I will tell him whether you all deserve a present or not.
Elf on a Shelf – Elfy is watching us.
Pâti
Those elf-on-a-shelf things creep me out! Constantly spying on everyone and ratting them out to Santa Claus! I want my home free of surveillance! If Santa wants to know if I’ve been naughty or nice, he should use magic – not creepy little men lurking on shelves and in corners watching me! Lol!
I agree WS. When I see them I steal them and burn them using a Bunsen burner whilst singing “Silent Night”.
Fuck da elves!
Thanks, HG! That mental image of you singing with the Bunsen burner cracked me up! I needed that!
You are most welcome.
Oh come now Mr. Grinch ,where is your Christmas spirit. I guess you are on the naughty list Mr Tudor.
I am the naughty list.
How and elf can even FIND a shelf that isn’t laden to capacity with cob-webbed empaths is beyond me. It must be like a game of musical chairs.
Elfy is so cute ! My six year is behaving since he has been in the house. I try and keep it as a tradition.
Tell him HG is watching. Immediate compliance.
I told Elfy about you HG
I trust he cried and wet his pants.
he yelled and said I hope HG doesnt burn me,so he hid under the bed and gave a silent treatment
Good. Make sure he stays under that bed otherwise Bunsen Bad Boy is gonna get him!
NarcAngel,
I doubt HG ever finds elves on his own shelves. Putting elves on HG’s shelves would definitely be a waste of Santa’s limited resources. He already knows which list HG goes on.
I think you mean, Santa is told which list.
Ha, ha!
Hi HG, Thank you for answering my question in detail. I understand what you said and I will heed your instructions.
Jolly good MP, best for all to move forward.
This is as I suspected and thank you for clarifying
Also I suspect it is part of the “rules “he has for himself on this blog, that he does not confirm anyone is a narcissist. I think he can only confirm if they are an empath. Am I right HG?
I never explain what the 5 Rules are. That would defeat the purpose.
I allow you all to work matters out for yourselves, by applying what I write about and using the evidence. Many are right, often they get it wrong, it is part of their learning curve.
HG
I dont know what’s happened, still catching up but your words are wise.
I get that all the time by reading your works. Part of learning is that you make mistakes. Inevitable. A good teacher allows you to make those mistakes then catches you.
Thank you. For everything you do.
You are welcome Renarde. This place is all about teaching and educating. Sometimes people do not always realise that this is happening as it is not always done in an obvious way.
Dear HG
Never change. The way you educate is both awesome and outstanding
In other news, I only just heard there is going to be a third season of The Windsors!
Crikey! I’m chuffed!
But seriously, what on earth must the script writers be thinking now? I mean, how close do they go? It’s pretty damn near the knuckle at the moment.
Hey HG, you’ll like this.
One of your Breathern became, how shall we say, a tad obsessed with me. He offered me 10k to sleep with me. I refused. Not available at any price, says I.
He then got angry. Very. Then said he would hunt me down and kill me?
When that didnt get a response he backtracked. Said he was only joking and that he had offered me money for a tarot card reading.
Tell me, have you ever been offered 10k for 5 minutes work?
On second thoughts, please dont answer that.
Mwah!💋
From a NOOB, it was a really difficult conversation to read, but I couldn’t stop coming back to it. The frustration and annoyance caused was palpable and took me right back into circular conversations, put downs, volte faces and fucking superiority that made my head buzz and stomach turn over. I had my head in my hands more than once. I was willing people to stop engaging with her as it was so painful to read. I seriously thought about blocking the site notifications, it raised my ET and stress so much. A good learning experience maybe, but a harsh and painful one, even looking from the outside. I hope those people involved are feeling ok today x
You know, NotMe!, my grandma was right when she taught me: “Don’t touch the sh*t and it won’t stink”. I sometimes can’t help but touch, though, especially if the person is getting on my nerves and hurting nice people. It always backfires, as it did this time, too. I only posted one comment and regretted it immediately, as I also got skunked from down under in no time.
I think for many people it was like listening to your parents argue. You want to defend the one who’s getting bullied, but you know if you do, once the bully is done giving you your share, the bullying will be refocused on the original victim, only worse now, and it will be Your Fault. Like everything else.
I felt that way a few months ago a little- the parents arguing reference is spot on- but bc I feel so much from ppl in general I learned ages ago to put a barrier up, and really inspect with my mind what is going on.
This is how I stayed (until 6 weeks ago When I decided it was time for NC) with my MMR -DLS – even just platonically because I wanted so much to see what I’d learned here unfold in real time, live. Not in retrospect, not just in hindsight- but as I learned more – apply it and test and investigate.
I couldn’t i that with my narcoholic – I did it fur a few months but he was so poisonous I was sick with ET. But my MMR-DLS GUY always was generally pleasant bc I was still in the golden period – but then I got all I could get from him and it became redundant and time to go.
The last six weeks have flown by, it’s crazy. I’ve thought about him maybe once a day, if that. I’m amazed I thought. after six years it would take me a long time. But it was like that with the Northhall of two within a week I was just over it.
It pains me to hear the turmoil I helped perpetuate – but also I really really want to hone my craft and I need the practise in a “safe” environment.
I’m learning – so I feel bad I caused tumultuous feelings and triggered ppl – and I thank you all for not attacking me for being relentless – and I ask please just ignore or realize there’s nothing to be upset about here – I think Lorelei has her shit together, knows what she is, I’m FINE- and Mercy seems ok too- and anyone reading just don’t read if it’s upsetting , and HG if you want me to stop interacting along the lines I’m going , let me know .
I realize too I’m annoying bc I’m relentless and it may seem pointless to many but I’m not arguing to be RIGHT – I’m genuinely intrigued by what I’m reading and finding out stuff I’m curious about .
💕
WokeAF, You are a feisty lil thang. I’m glad I got to know you a little more through all of this chaos. If there’s ever conflict I want you on my side 👊
NotMe
You know I never though about how others feel when faced with confrontation until I started reading comments here. I remember a reader telling a story about how a driver honked at her simply because she was making a turn and he had to wait. She said how bad it made her feel and it really hit home for me how different we are. It also made me more protective of the readers I’ve come to know because I don’t like to see innocent people hurt. I’ve always been that way though. Its like “Hurt me. I can take it” but don’t hurt my kids, my family, my friends. That, I cant take.
You are right about the circular conversation and that’s why I won’t engage anymore. I would rather talk to a wall (which probably has better reasoning skills) than waste my time on empty conversation.
NotMe!
I’m sorry that it had that effect on you. When you are faced with that it is a good time to practice no contact, but you see even here you (and others as well) were drawn back to the chaos just as people are in the relationship with a narc. You have to remember also that everyone is at different stages of their experience/learning/recovery (whatever you want to call it) and are also from different schools of Empath which also affects the response/reaction. I did not have the same response reading that you did for example. Trust that if you find yourself affected in future as you were by this experience that you can remove yourself and know that those who remain engaged are there for individual reasons and will be fine. HG monitors and ensures that.
Woke: Why apologize for sticking your neck out. That takes courage. Courage is on the decline these days. Most people, including myself, are so tired that we do not show courage as much as we once did and/or as much as we should, at times. And a lot was gained from your stick-with-it-ness. There is a thin line between envy and admiration, and I believe Lorelei triggered someone intensely, for whatever reason. The very same reason that some people like someone is the very same reason that other people dislike that same person. So be it. However, However, However thank God most people do not have the power to destroy those that they personally dislike, or feel moved to `call out.` Whew! Who would survive?? I even felt the fire of courage rise in my breast from watching you. I was upset about what was happening to Lorelei, but I feel so tired a lot these days, and I hoped the person would just quickly find something else in life that would interest them much more on this entire planet other than the bullseye, and the crosshairs, and the radar, and the microscope that they used to target, specifically, Lorelei. I do not want anyone to be into me that much. Please, no. There is a large world out there, that should interest someone much more beyond a reader in good standing on a blogsite. But, your example strengthened me, so, I stuck my neck out a little, but you really were brave. You are a loyal type that sticks up for people, if you believe they are being wronged, even if you have to stand up in front of a monster at times. You risked yourself. And the possible blowback and backlash against yourself. There is no greater love than that.
I don’t like bullies.
And I have to watch my own behaviour because sometimes it’s tempting to poke the bear and I don’t want to become the bully. No matter who it’s with. Sort of like you know if you stare into the abyss too long…
Honestly I thought that Lorelei knows herself well enough to not let her self be rattled. I fucking love cocky people. Well, you know people that are cocky in good humour and when it comes from actual self-esteem and not envy.
Also you know we’re all in recovery here and part of recovery at some point is looking at your own narc traits and probably wondering if you’re a narcissist I know I did. In the first few months here if another reader had called me a narcissist I’d probably have gone to pieces. Well unless I already got my consult. But It’s damaging especially if you’re still raw from the abuse.
So I was partially sticking up for her but honestly at least 75 % was for my own personal learning. Lorelie knows who she is I wasn’t worried about her really . So I don’t deserve any kudos from you actually ha ha it was almost purely for selfish reasons though LMAO I’m a dick
if anything I I’m more freaked out about the wrong information getting into other empaths Heads here that might be new and Go out calling every super empath are empaths that has narcissistic traits a narcissist.
That is not helpful to the world at large, which is my bigger devotion
Woke: Of course it was about you a lot, because if one does not care about oneself, one can not have concern for others, So, it was about me too, then. Your reply then does not negate mine at all, so Kudos, still. And looking out for oneself and thereby for another is not a crime, but honorable. And I hope that no empath nor narcissist nor undeclared, never targets me like what happened to Lorelei. It is such a weird thing to see and witness. I never saw it done to someone, out of the blue like that, on Narcsite, until now. What in the world was that?? Please do not answer. It was just a rhetorical question. I will just file this page under: Unsolved Mysteries. Along with the BLL page and the Ed page. This page though is becoming sort of scary!!! Every time I see recent comments pointing back to this page, I take a peek with trepidation. I gotta get out of here! I am reminded of why I enacted my GOSO regime at my last job. Whew! Never again, if I can help it. Life is too short. Right now, I am fascinated with HG`s Prince Andrew`s article. HG can sure pack a lot of interesting info into one article. I need to reread it, though. I wonder if the response to that article is different with the people that live over there versus the people that live in other countries, with HG`s different readers.
Hi Woke—I won’t get a reply to this on the app as I’m in safari. Regardless—it’s intriguing to me how I go into a similar mode for others and not Necessarily me. We have two prostitutes at my work that I adore. They are quite a handful—one is very physically assaultive. I adore them both and I’ve had to intervene to ensure their treatment is trauma informed. One can be hitting security and she will stop and and run to me for a hug. She triangulates and I allow to the extent that diminishing the violence is the more important element. I buy her trinkets and she always comes looking for me. I do the same sort of thing for friends—at work a woman was telling people not to help a co-worker and I just nailed her (I do some HR stuff by history—blatant behaviors never win in such an arena)—but if it’s me I’ll balk a tad more. Funny how our traits expose different personality facets. I once consulted with HG over the injustice done to a friend by a practitioner and it was so long ago and I made no sense as it was all so new and seemed so diabolical but it’s not really. It’s just the way the cookie crumbles. I view the woman now in the same way I view my ex—emotionally handicapped and it diminishes the anger. My friend actually has a mild PTSD from the bullying at work. She’s a lovely person and at times she needs to discuss it.
Step back—focus on your day!
Mercy
Brilliant response.
If I’m a narcissist then a) everyone failed to identify the red flags in my original post (there were none as I was empathising & frustrated at people not wanting to help themselves) I called out toxic behaviour.
b) everyone used their emotional thinking instead of logic (continued to engage without asking logical questions)
c) did not put into your logic of defence to go no contact. (If it bothered them)
Being intelligent and strong willed does not make you a narcissist.
But hey it’s just my opinion.
Julie P
Ever heard that expression ‘When in hole?’
I was on another thread commentating but on THIS one another commentator asks where I am? I’m here! Took a while catching up. But I’m there now.
What you have done is PROFOUNDLY unfair. You’ve made an utterly incorrect diagnosis on a much liked and respected commentator who for some reason, has got up your nose. I will not fall into your trap Julie. I will not attempt to diagnose you. Instead I will highlight where your behaviour, in my perception, is troublesome. Point by point.
A -People DID indeed spot your behaviour. I did from post one in THIS thread. WAF commented and held you to account. So no, not everyone then. Clearly.
B – I am now using logical thinking. And to boot, I’m being kinder than you deserve
C – IF you are a narc, IF, then this is a very rare instance on the web, this site I mean, where behaviours are challenged. I’m pretty sure you’re not in any relationship with any of the regulars. Could be wrong but it would be unlikely. (Logical thinking).
Therefore no reason for example for myself to implement GOSO. For my work, I engage with narcs all the time. How could I not? Every now and again one flies under my radar. But even then, they cannot get personally close. One has done recently and I am stopping him. But that’s another story.
Being intelligent and strong willed is not being a narc. Heavens most of us are strong willed otherwise some of us might have died.
Commentators on here, the regulars, are often kind, funny, feisty, intelligent, goofy at times. Yes, spats happen but that’s normal. There is never a flame war for two reasons
1 – Vast majority of commentators have empathy and know when a disagreement happens but never take it too far. That old affective empathy.
2 – HG would never allow it in a million years.
With this twin pronged approach largely, this place has a bit of an Elysian feel about it. Good.
Now, you need to have a sit back and reflect. My fellow commentatorshave treated you very kindly. Far kinder than I would’ve done tbh. I’m more energy efficient and unless I’m using words for further writing I stop all interactions in their tracks immediately. Indeed only the other day one rocked up. I’d like to think she saw my response to her and fled. Guess that’s my narc trait there???
Fact is, to my mind at least two apologies are needed. One to WAF and the second of course to Loreli. Do that and I think the situation will be resolved. It is of course up to them to accept it.
In my opinion and I’ve watched Loreli for some good time, there is NOTHING in her behaviour at all which suggests she has NPD.
Loreli has been abused. So here’s a test. How would YOU feel if youve been abused and someone labels you as a narc? That’s why regulars will rarely go do this avenue. Simply because, we know how it feels. I am not going down this road with you. Ok?
This is a golden opportunity to stop, pause and reflect on how you have treated another.
Incidentally, unless I’m mistaken, the original contretemps occured on another thread. Personally, I’d like to read it.
Can you find it and post so we can all make our judgements? If you assert as you do, you’re right and shes wrong, there shouldn’t be an issue. Should there?
I await your response.
Julie:
a) Not everyone.
b) Not everyone.
c) Many did.
“Being intelligent and strong willed does not make you a narcissist.”
Being outspoken does not equate to strength. Intelligence is defined as the ability to acquire and apply knowledge logically and accurately. In this thread, you failed to do so. Many people here have made excellent points worthy of your introspective consideration.
Stating you are a life coach and you’re “frustrated at people not wanting to help themselves” speaks volumes. If you possess empathy, I suggest you tap into that and consider the other person’s experience and perspective.
Life and career coaching isn’t about empathy, its about motivation , building and moving
It’s about pushing people out of their comfort zone, and step by step building.
Talking about feelings all day gets you no where.
It’s design and strategy. There is a time for cuddles and a time to work, so you can pay off your mortgage and move safely from job to job or change careers
Your post was condescending, I have a niche skill set and I use it, if you want whinging about how hard everything is don’t come to me, you won’t get cuddles and pity.
It’s worked for many people, thank you 🙂
Lol, you misread my comment by a mile.
I read your comment and I disagree with what you said, I have compassion for people’s situations I understand how difficult it can be but I don’t require full empathy to do the role.
You told me I needed more empathy and I said no.
It was a good try FYC. You always make me stop and think when I read your comments so I thought if anyone could crack that nut you can.
What the heck,Julie?!
Why are you still posting here???
Aren’t you supposed to be some Fly-by-Night Narc who swoops in for fuel and is off in a flash?
I’m so confused.
Haha i dont know, will need to book in a consultation to explain my poor life choices!
Fuel what fuel, this is draining…..
I like super heroes 🙂
Lisk: why do YOU think she is still posting here? Actually asking.
WokeAF, in answer to your question:
I think Julie’s still posting here mainly because, like me, she has a WordPress account and she reads this and other blogs via her WordPress app, which notifies the reader when his or her comment has been liked or commented on.
My guess is she’s replied to every comment or question that has been been directed at her.
Of course, she can do this without the WP app, but the app makes it so much easier to remain engaged in a comment thread, as I have experienced myself since starting to use it.
Ha. Good one. 🙄
I got shit to do. Someone else can take this one
FYC: Some things have come out concretely from this page to me, in case they were murky at all before, in my mind: (1) It is wonderful the way HG Tudor moderates this blog. 2. Woke has courage. 3. I like Lorelei a lot even though we do not banter together that much. 4. And, I am thankful to the readers that know that being Kind is also beneficial to many. And being on the receiving end of some kindness and some pity gives many of us the catharsis that many of us need and needed in order to become stronger and to make provisions to become even stronger by incorporating our logic and our healthy emotions, with HG`s instructions. We all know about all the manifestations of hard love and what is often mistakingly called `hard love.` It`s often `a hard knock life` as the song goes, in the modern world. Many of us are coming from hard relationships. But, some Kindness matters as well. 5. I doubt if many of us would be here, or last on here, if HG Tudor were not the moderator. 6. And I know that if anyone on here were to become so obsessed about another reader on here, like what almost happened to Lorelei–only briefly I hope, that it starts verging on the stalking and harassing of a targeted reader, that HG would put a stop to it, and that is a fact, and HG is admirably tolerant up to a point that is reasonable. 7. And I still say that Lorelei is a strong female that still has not folded, when many would have folded in her manifold circumstances, even over this situation. Many readers would have left the blog, if targeted the way Lorelei was targeted, if on a different blog site. 8) But, HG Tudor also knows his readers and where and when their strength is overly challenged, and I have witnessed this, because he is a leader, and all good leaders know their people, and thus, despite the blue touch paper being lit regarding her, Lorelei is still here. Huzzah!
PSE: Did you feel I was being unkind? My comment to JP was purposely devoid of emotion (fuel) for obvious reasons.
FYC: Ban the thought. Of course not. I was not speaking of you. This feed is becoming chaotic and unwieldy. I was agreeing with you and then making some general statements since I was on the subject, and it turned into 8 points. I always enjoy talking to you, and you have helped me to become more brave, and you never hit me on the head with a sledge hammer as we discuss my weaknesses, but rather encouraged me. And only a kind person, would inquire if someone were implying that they were being unkind like you just did. So there you go. Double. And many are becoming confused over what comments are directed to whom about what on this long feed, I am noticing.
Julie what do you think you are hoping to achieve by continuing to mock commentors?
If you’re frustrated that not every reader has gone completely no contact, in what way do you think you are currently helping any one here?
If you just wanted to get some things off your chest, fine, you have.. what now?
Hi witch, what did I want to achieve, I wasn’t trying to mock any reader. I saw toxic behaviour and readers not seeing a person who was and is manipulating them. If
I stood back and watched and felt I needed to speak. . You don’t need to give compassion to some one who is manipulating you, its not cruel to insert a strong boundary, if they can’t get to you they go to someone with a weaker boundary.
I am a different personality, and I see and view things differently, I wanted to show my perspectives on conversations on this site. Everyone is on a different journey. However having a mindset that your a victim is very dangerous, continuously blaming the narc, keeps you stuck, you have the tools on this site to fix it, so fix it no excuses. Know your value!
To be clear:
“I saw toxic behaviour and readers not seeing a person who was and is manipulating them”
Lorelei is an empath which means if she was manipulating, she’d be shit at it.
She knows what she does woke, but I don’t allow her to play in my space – the stories give me a headache.
Hi Julie,
Thanks for clearing up some things.
However it has been proven that lorelei is not a narcissist. It has been confirmed that she has taken the empath detector and also that HG would not tolerate her the way that he does if she were a narcissist.
I appreciate that you may not like some of the things she has said and speaking up about those things is entirely your prerogative. But your theory that she is a narcissist has been disproven.
Secondly, I’m not sure where you have gotten this idea that a significant amount of commenters are dwelling in victimhood and are not taking any responsibility over their choices.
Maybe you can explain this further?
Yes I have seen people comment who are clearly struggling to come to terms that a loved one is a narc. This is understandably a difficult process with barriers involved both psychologically and practically and I think the comments that you have made, which do sound like you are mocking their circumstances, is not productive.
Some of the condescending comments you have made include you saying things like “some of you have no friends”
“Some of you are in your 40’s and think you have all the time in the world”
“Some of you can’t even use a Visa card”
So once again, I’m asking what you are hoping to achieve by mocking people here?
Many people here already feel like shit because of the narcissistic abuse they have experienced and it would be more productive if they were encouraged instead of mocked.
I am not perfect. I have made inappropriate comments when it has got on my tits that someone still believes that they can be “friends” with a narcissist. So I do completely empathise with your frustrations because I often fall short when it comes to expressing my feelings maturely.
However, just like you feel lorelei should consider how she might be coming across to others, you also need to see how you are coming across to others in these recent comments.
I’m sure your intentions aren’t bad, but maybe you can see how the way it was done was off putting? Especially as you were comparing others with yourself.
It’s not helpful for anyone to hear “I have done it so why can’t you?” It may actually make them feel more deflated and less motivated to make changes.
Witch, I meant every single word I said, when I wrote it, this is the issue I have, its like the conversations go round in circles, why? Because you too focussed on how it makes you feel, instead of looking at it objectively.
I have spent my entire week on this blog, this is too many hours spent… just arguing., i agree if i continue i will have no friends, my words will be true. No time for fun, this is not productive or healthy.
Also having friends in the real world to talk about narcissism and narcissistic abuse is healthy and necessary. Not just on this blog. I hope people so this.
If there is something I say that hurts or triggers ask yourself why does it matter?who the fuck is Julie… delete.
HG argues using logic, try to remove emotion and look at it logically.
Visa issue, HG explained that he doesn’t care who you are, he will treat it confidential, again there was no trust there. He repeated himself and was annoyed. You either trust him at his word or find another way without complaining. I’m very independent I find ways to help myself, its frustrating to hear the same thing repeated for days. We are all adults and should have the basic skills to work this out. If not you have a problem.
No one other than yourself should be looking at your pay pal account or credit card, if there is you have a problem.
I’m not soft, I do not spoon feed, life is harsh, its not a fairytale, that someone is going to save you.
Don’t put yourself in a position of being powerless, that’s what the women do on this blog alot, my narc, no.
What can you do to get yourself away from people who control?? PUt provisions in place. Some do it and some just go on and on
That has been my point.
While you waffle on about “logic” and “objectivity” you can’t logically accept that your observations were wrong and that lorelei isn’t a narcissist?
You can’t logically accept a fact?
You can’t logically accept that emotions are apart of our psyche?
You can’t logically accept that your approach will have an impact on how people respond back to you?
But you’re a life coach!!!??
Ggguuurrrlll!
I’ll just leave you to continue to mirror HG’s lines…
“I do not spoon feed”
Lmao!
Yo! 👀
I don’t mirror, I agree and I have never been spoon fed.
So much hate… So little time….
best focus on yourself. I know I am
I’m actually not bothered
Thanks 🙂
Thanks Renarde, I’m not a noob (see I know now) but I should be better at applying labels. I’m trying to make a conscious effort to use them (if only in my own head) instead of just saying everything is gaslighting. I like reading HGs articles where he breaks it down using high profile narcissist comments. It makes it a little more clear seeing examples.
Mercy
It certainly does. In fact I’ve been meaning to ask if HG could do something rather magnificent.
For each school and case to illustrate them with real life examples. All sexes. That would be fascinating.
And if he really wanted to make my Yule, do the same for the Empaths too.
Pretty please, HG!
“The visa and pay pal fiasco, does anyone really care who the fuck you are? I’m mean truly. It went on and on and on…. Can’t work a visa card out, but seem to think keeping your anonymity is far more important than obtaining life altering information.“ Julie, I’m not gonna get into the accusations you made of Lorelei despite the fact that I adore her and disagree with you. But this comment is directed at me and another person who had the same problem I did, therefore I respond. I commented on it looking for advice because I never had that problem before. If you read well, I was able to obtain all kind of life altering information in the past using the same method. If it bothers you that I ask for help, move to another thread and don’t read mine, as simple as that. Maybe **JUST MAYBE** it was important for us to figure out why it wasn’t working because we were gonna use it to contribute to help someone else, not for ourselves. My anonymity is important to me, and that alone suffices to make it clear that neither you nor anyone has any right to tell me whether I should show who I am. There are many people here who need to remain anonymous for fear of repercussions or for many other reasons and if you really are a life coach I shouldn’t have to explain this to you.
Ha. I was intending to say something about the article but atm, I can’t even remember the title or what the topic was after reading the comments of my peers here. I am checking my mental status, identify wtf happened inside me here. I reeled, I felt a heavy cruel type of dread and disbelief. Caused me some literal amnesia .
In no way do I intend to address the exchange or the exchangers interacting above, this is about me.
I retraced rewinding to locate my thoughts my feelings preceding each paragraph by paragraph to get back to before the confusion and chaos.
Once I recognized absence of chaos confusion, I restarted there to replay my mental processes. Here is what I found. At the onset of my perceiving incongruencies between intent and actual words, I experienced (now recognize) an equality, at the starting gate,I’m allowing myself a choice so to speak to make use of ET or logic, considering both (ET/LT) equal on a continuum or out the starting gate. Inside me, was a power struggle between ET and LT. One demanding merit over the other. I made use of some sort of mental gatekeeper or umpire that said, “relax logical thoughts, allow verification of your perception heard as chaos”, Gatekeeper permitting the” benefit of a doubt since ET expects this may be a style of fun, a good hearted bantering”. A definite exact point in time where ET and logic diverged from having equal ground,is clearly seen, I recognize the moment gatekeeper threw out the flag in favor of logical thinking that instantly put ET on the bench.
Alone listening, Logic clicked on the calling of chaos, power struggles were occurring, fragile black and white thinking is what I hear. LT advised get the hell outside of the area of impact, in fact, scroll down, don’t listen, get away. The gatekeeper denied that for this one time, said, “No listen and follow through, identify what internally is processing within you. So you can create a protocol for self-protection in the presence of chaos to practice and put in place, to keep for future use.” So ET takes a hit and losing equal standing to LT, I will practice this. Forgive my old indented paragraphs the space down is broken on this laptop.
Maybe I should have done the same. Scrolled down and got away from it. Don’t need more stress in my life
Blast from the past.
When we are getting the present silent treatment but they seemto talk a little bit . Are we painted black or white?
If a narcissist is talking to you Pati, you are not getting a silent treatment. The clue is in the name!
You are either experiencing comfort crumbs or the devaluation of the silent treatment has ended and is replaced by Respite or an alternative manipulation (the narcissist might be talking to you again but it is Insult, Provocation, Word Salad etc.)
Regardless, “it” is always “something” with a narc.
So confusing trying to figure this people out . I am still trying to put the puzzle pieces together and I cant .
Thank you ,this makes a lot of sense from the Narcissist perspective. Even though its instinctive it sure sounds like he thought about it before doing it. I am still learning here so i do apologize for the dumb question.
No question about a narc is dumb, Pati!
Thank you Lisk, I feel.better now . I will continue and ask questions. I feel very fortunate to be able to do this in HG’s blog.😁
Pati
There is no such thing as a dumb question on this blog! You ask any question you would like to ask sweetie. If not HG ( because of time ) then someone on here will try to answer it. 🥰
Thank you so much FM1T!
You are very welcome Pati.
Pati,
7/10x a narcissist has done that to me, I was painted black, and they were plotting something against me. I am very weary of a narc that is quite, giving short answers, and hasn’t moved on. If they have a new significant other, that’s one thing, but if you just wounded them-and anything can, and they portray an almost Silent Treatment, watch out!!!
ANM, this sounds like him. I wonder what he is up to? I dont think he plots since he is not a greater . But something is going on for sure .
Thank you! Hugs xoxo
Wow I have now read more of that discussion. I think it’s important for people to know we are allowed to be happy and have flaws and poke fun and it is a part of being supportive. It’s just a facet of a bigger picture. I have never received so much practical advice, no bullshit, support without coddling as I have on this site. We have all been through the trenches and some are still in different phases of it. I was away for a bit so must have missed some posts but coming back I appreciate the laughs as much as the constructive feedback.
Makes sense, thank you HG.
I’ve also realised that I was shelved daily in between conversations rather than for days or weeks at a time, unless I was getting a ST and then I was usually told about it. This stranger setting accurately describes his behaviour whilst we were together last, this was inexplicable until now. Much appreciated insight.
As painful as they were, and might be, I have always experienced great relief and even happiness when I had Aha-moments brought on by reading HG.
This article is stunningly accurate, I experienced this phenomena. It did occur before devaluations. I’m astounded by your insights. I read this while I was involved and it gave me understanding and comfort.
You are welcome.
Oh my God I have missed you people lol! This is even better than the Celine Dionne thread! Although the bit calling a Lorelei a narc was odd. Where’s Renarde?
Maybe that person doesn’t know we are chiding each other and it’s funny?
Sporking Evita lyrics.
Here Madame Cyn!!
Oh yeah, I sure know this period well. The last one lasted 16 months! Then came the fake discard but by this time, after 14 years of it I’d had enough, and called his bluff and finished it permanently myself! Boy he didn’t like that at all!! And re celibacy? Well bHG, mine lasted for the last 8 years that we were together!! lol.. 😂😂
My ex lesser used to do this. It never occurred to me as anything to do with narcissism until I read the article. He would be quieter than normal but not ignore me. If I asked what was wrong he would say nothing. Sometimes it lasted a week, sometimes a few days. Honestly at times I was happy he was quiet because normally he was running his mouth non stop. Either he was complaining or talking about things he thought he was knowledgeable about but really wasn’t. When he would finally come around to normal again he would tell me he was just”laying low” so I could spend more time with my daughter.
This behavior changes daily ,minute by minute, hour by hour. I am so confused must be the wine.
I just realized someone I was about to get involved with has many red flags except for the love bombing. But so many things got my antenna going and rubbed me the wrong way and I came to the conclusion that I just don’t like him. I also realized that in this context, it is more of a secondary source I guess, rather a specific relationship dynamic too complicated to discuss here; but not needing love bombing in the typical romantic context. In this context I’m thinking the love bombing is more a withholding of the true ugliness that would unfold later. He has mentioned he has had two stalker ex girlfriends ( one just a f*** buddy he said) I am seeing the control methods with time and days of phone calls, the repeats of texts when I don’t respond because I have a life, the constant labeling of me (high strung, high maintenance- I like darkened room to sleep,) the tone when I comment on things, the one sided conversations; I don’t know if he hears anything I say unless it pertains to his agenda nor have I had the chance to speak much in 2 weeks, the dismissal of my reasons for keeping a call brief and then taking up an hour talking about himself while I try to keep my eyes open, then complaining that he was up too late in the phone when we spoke that time last week. I haven’t even met him in person and I won’t be. He is older, an attorney, also all about himself, maybe he’s not a narc, maybe just narcissistic ass. But I know enough to not bother with meeting him. I can’t stand him already lol. Besides he has a knee injury and too old to hike or run with me. I’ve come to point where I don’t care if they are narcs, if they are assholes it’s enough.
Cyn—you aren’t ready to get involved with anyone yet. Nor am I. It’s part of HG’s 24 month celibacy program anyway. You are way too fresh from/in the fray. Promise.
24 months?!!!! Holy shit, I think I missed that memo
Lorelei Is exaggerating
Of course she is exaggerating HG, she’s a drama queen! Lol
Ah, there is a God after all
Yes, here I am.
HG! You’re as bad as she is! I’m going back to bed, it’s to early for the two of you! 💞
Which Greek God are you HG?
Whichever I choose.
Since you are still in the Golden Period with SM I would recommend HELIOS. The Greek God of Sun.
Most kind.
You are welcome
I know I will get in trouble for this but, oh well! Pati there isn’t a Greek God with a horses ass is there?!
Hahaha your right . My husband thinks he is also a Greek god ,since my background is greek. Talk about being conceited.
FM1T, I think Poseidon if i am not mistaken . Lol
Oh Pati! Hahaha 🙃
I was teasing HG of course! I believe Odin would be my recommendation for you.
FM1T, that’s a good one . You always make me laugh !
Thanks Pati. I’m glad you and especially HG know I’m just teasing? 🥰
Of course,anytime! 😄
No I’m not. I’m in the remedial program.
Just to be clear, because it’s causing consternation for some, I’ve never stated 24 months abstinence.
Jesus HG. It’s clearly a joke. It’s 36 months. No one gets off the boat at 24 months.
Do/Did you suggest abstinence for any length of time? If so, how long?
Roughly six months. I explain more and why and what to do, in consultation.
Hahaha I am almost there .
That’s a relief.
Thank you. It would be very very bad. However, I will be needing a coach. I have become very good at seeing narc flags, but in this particular type of relationship it will be helpful to have at least 2 sets of eyes. It’s the perfect platform for the narcissist and I have already seen the abuse disguised as “play” in some people’s writings; or rather the resulting confusion and damage. I sent them here.
Fun HG has detectors for that! 😉
It should have been Cyn. Apologize typo. I’m going back to bed! 🤦🏼♀️
Cyn—of course HG is the expert but I’m finding how I’m made to feel is my biggest asset in making these determinations re, who I need to stay away from. I’ve ignored that feeling before. Of course I’m not made to feel bad right away which is for me where the red flags are the initial gatekeeper.
Lorelei, What Julie was actually trying to tell you is HAPPY BIRTHDAY, dear! She just got confused while typing her good wishes. Have a great day! 😘😘😘
Thank you! My vagina may fall out today because I’m so old!
Hahaha certainly not because of age. Maybe because of inactivity?
Happy Birthday Fellow Scorpion, may you have a year filled with love,health,happiness,and above all a huge shopping spree! Have a good one !
Thank God , I about fell on the floor
Oh Mercy don’t believe anything she writes! Hahaha
I was thinking, does the 24 hours start over every time we break NC??
Mercy,
It’s 24 months according to Lorelei, please don’t believe a thing she tells you! Lol.
I think especially for Lorelei it should start all over again when she breaks any of the rules! Hahaha 😉🥰
FM1T, I see I wrote hours instead of months. I’m already subconsciously rejecting this rule haha.
Hahaha I read that Mercy and had to laugh! However I don’t think 24 hours is quite enough time. Lol
No, lets be honest here.
Lorelei is a narcissist. On this blog she has exhibited the following behaviours
Uses word salad
Pathogical liar
Grandiose delusions
Gaslights her children
Constant need to be the centre of attention
Lacks empathy
Blameshifts
I did read some comments on the blog that really stood out.
Calling out intagram models or influencers, for their appearance says more about your own lack of self worth and self loathing.
Hating on other women and judging, doesn’t make you a better person. It makes you insecure and it reflects your inner issues.
It is no one’s responsibility but your own to fix your life.
Instead of pointing fingers how about using this material to empower yourself to not hate men, to not blame them for your predicament and bad life choices. This site is rife with projection, playing victim and blame shifting.
This site shouldn’t be your personal social media page, its should be a serious platform for information.
A little maturity goes a long way…..
Julie, you should take your own advice about hating on other women.
Mercy you need to recognize a dangerous narcissist when you encounter one, she isn’t a drama queen, she is a manipulator
Julie, if you think Lorelei is dangerous then you haven’t learned enough to tell me what “I need” to do.
She is dangerous for a few reasons
Gaslights-she denies she actually said what she said
Lied- numerous times her story makes no sense
Grandiose and entitled – she didn’t let anyone else speak and wanted HGs attention without thinking of others questions
Lacked empathy- how she speaks of women bezos GF and the mean girl behavior
All of these factors make her a danger, I respond to people allowing communication, she only responds to people who grow her ego.
Very different!
Julie,
I’m not going to entertain the comment about Lorelei being a narcissist. I wonder if you stopped to think how damaging your words could be or was it more important beat someone down because you’re annoyed by their comments.
HG says you’ve been reading his work for awhile. I’m puzzled why, with the knowledge you have of his work, you would chose to comment with criticism rather than offer something productive that you have learned in order to help others.
Mercy, I’m puzzled, too, as to why Julie P would comment, especially when HG has told us repeatedly how a narc and his/her unbeknownst lieutenants treat an accuser.
My guess is Julie P is beyond caring about what others think of her. I admire her for that.
Lisk, unbeknownst lieutenants? No, only a narcissist has lieutenants.
I agree that having the confidence to do what you feel is right and not care what others think is admiral…as long as your right.
What you are seeking is for me to pity her, true compassion comes from understanding her nature, if she doesn’t deny she does these things, then yes I would come back with compassion and understanding example yes maybe I went a little over board and didnt consider what I said, and the impact it had or yes I do crave attention because…… and was genuine about It then yes, but then she also said she wanted to go after a lesser just for fun. So no, im fairly logical on my stance.
Remember people who feel bad actually feel bad.
And correct said behaviour. No black or white thinking.
Lorelei sees people as bad or good
I don’t believe I have demonstrated said thinking, I’ve covered alot of grey.
Btw I wouldnt be in the job i do and have done, if i dont care but you can’t let people manipulate you, lie to you and disrespect you
You have to have clear boundaries and no excuses.
She is not a manipulator or a Narcissist! You have no idea what you are talking about what so ever! I think you should read over what you wrote and start to practice what your serving up! As you say it’s a site for everyone and everyone here is at a different level of learning. To some banter and laughter help with some of the abuse and suffering they had to deal with in their lives. She jokes and acts like a goofball at times but after what she has been through she is entitled to act this way! She is right there when needed and would not turn her back on a friend! She is funny and beautiful and belongs here the same as everyone else does, unfortunately that means you also!
An excellent example of how not getting any for 24 months can make a girl cranky.
You really think….I haven’t got any?
Haha I’m a doer not a talker.
And to respond to Lorelei yes you have gaslighted it’s in one of your comments.
Whitney you need to re-evaluate what a “nice” person is
I don’t judge women, don’t care what you look like, where you come from or what you do, however I do call out ass clown behaviour.
This isn’t “your site” ladies, its a site for everyone to feel welcome, to share experiences and become empowered.
To take steps to go no contact and GOSO, not to wallow in perpetual victimhood. Blame men for all your issues.
Not to appear drunk, partake in unhealthy behaviour and or be sleazy or just plain bullshit people.
Any one has an issue, come talk to me, I don’t hide behind avatars.
Haha I’m just going to watch this happen… no pressure NA
Should I be frightened? Jesus shit Christ grow up
Julie, you sound pretty bitter for a career-life coach. Aren’t you afraid your potential clients at “Work-Life Balance Consulting” might google your name, read your comments and realize you actually hate people?
Julie clearly is not afraid, as she has stated.
Plus, her opinions do not reflect that she hates anybody.
Instead, she seems to despise certain, regularly demonstrated behavior, finding it counterproductive for her and possibly other readers.
Frankly, I thought FM1T was serious when she originally called Lorelei a narcissist. I did not realize until later comments that she was joking.
A considered observation, Lisk.
“A considered observation” that I’m a narcissist HG? Puleeease. Is your devil’s advocacy a form of allocating a platform for further discord? If you don’t like light banter make a statement prohibiting such.
No. That was not what was written at all. Nowhere did list write “Lorelei is a narcissist.” Go back and re-read. Lisk provided a considered response of the behaviours, she did not state agreement with them, it was a summation.
(On a point of order, (1) Light banter, I allow it, you have all seen it allowed and I have consistently stated (and acted on it) that I will prune it where it drifts too far off topic. (2) You stated that I said people should abstain from sex/dating for 24 months, when I did not and you stated I described you as a Lower Mid Ranger Narcissist, when I did not. I KNOW you were joking in both instances, but others may not do so (see the various expressions of concern that arose from the 24 month comment). I know you and know you mean nothing by these comments and that they are throwaway banter, but to others who do not know you and the fact that the written word can be misconstrued owing to an absence of the usual indicators (tone, eye contact, facial expression) one ought to be mindful of such matters and the risk of misinterpretation and confusion).
If you are concerned by my lack of mindfulness you knew how to reach
me. Don’t say “one ought to be”—-say “you” to me. I’m able to recognize an attempt to be polite and put it out there, but be direct. One ought to or I ought to? Which is it?
One. It was directed to all.
I thought you were regressing into mid ranger-hood and being passive aggressive.
Ha ha, not a chance of that.
Well it’s still a passive way of skirting around being direct. Don’t banter back if that isn’t what you want on here. You want it serious then be serious. You set the tone too. Lorelei didn’t skip along and muck up your blog.
I did not state that “I do not want banter on here”. I said I allow it, because I allow people to express their views and I allow some levity at times, but also I prune it back when it drifts too far off topic.
I wasn´t referring to using banter, re-read, I was pointing out that IF you write certain things in banter, people (all readers, all commenters) ought to be mindful of what they wrote to avoid causing problems from themselves and others. For instance, you, stated that I advocated a 24 month abstinence period. I did not state that and you know I did not. I recognise you were stating this as “banter” but did you see the response from readers who were confused by this? They were. Hence I explained to ALL people, including YOU, that if you engage in banter have an awareness of how it might cause confusion. That was the point I was making.
I appreciate the freedom you allow here HG
I wouldn’t interact very much if it weren’t for the banter.
Lorelei I try to put a 😆 if I’m joking and it might confuse ppl but I say almost everything in humour so I probably forget often enough
Indeed. I allow people to express themselves and for them to evaluate the position for themselves based on evidence, this assists people with their learning. I allow the banter, as stated, upto a point. I recognise that some people like to banter and why, I also ensure it does not get too far off topic also, otherwise it would make it far harder for K to find things!
No kidding, I don’t know how she manages as it is!
HG
Exactly, banter is an excellent way of gathering information which can be stored away for later use or recall and I enjoy the persiflage, as well.
What’s amusing me K is how fun the word persiflage is!
Lorelei
Ha ha ha…persiflage is a lovely word indeed!
We need a word of the day K. You can provide one. I don’t know any fancy words. I challenge you to find a word to gaslight me with.
Lorelei
Here’s some challenge fuel: Flibbertigibbet.
Haha! Hilarious you vivacious smart ass!
Lorelei
Ha ha ha….it’s one of my favorite words.
HG
“Indeed. I allow people to express themselves and for them to evaluate the position for themselves based on evidence, this assists people with their learning. I allow the banter, as stated, upto a point. I recognise that some people like to banter and why, I also ensure it does not get too far off topic also, otherwise it would make it far harder for K to find things!”
Yes, YOU allow banter, and YOU ensure it does not get to far off topic. I think what has been lost or ignored in all of this is that it is your blog and you moderate it as you see fit. You decide what is allowed. You do allow a wide range of opinions and discussion. As one of those who has broached some unpopular ones, I can say that I very much appreciate that you allow them to be aired. Aired not necessarily meaning approved or accepted but rather just exchanged. My opinion is that it aids in better understanding of others for those who are open, and isn’t that the reason most of us ended up here? Trying to understand others?
It is one thing to have an opinion. It is quite another to have anyone but yourself decide what topics should or should not be discussed, when it is time for fun and time for work, provide stats about the ages, situations, and wants of your readership, and decide what constitutes banter vs attack amongst other things.
I have displayed my narcissistic traits here and come off as haughty, superior, and even a narcissist to some, but I would not profess to tell you how to run your wildly successful blog by laying down to your readers rules on how they should conduct themselves or deciding what the platform should be (serious with no banter for example). That is only for you to decide and goes beyond opinion and enters into entitlement and grandiosity. You seem to have a pretty good handle on a formula for success thus far in what you moderate, so it appears best left to you.
YOUR blog,
YOUR rules.
YOUR responsibility,
YOUR success.
YOUR legacy.
All the rest is opinion and can be accepted or ignored as each reader sees fit.
HG totally approves
HG, I would like to say that you have been a fair person on your blog . You have a great sense of humour and try to make it comfortable for people . I just wanted to say thank you .
You’re welcome
Woke—are we allowed to have some fun? I am waiting on a delivery of peacock velvet curtains and thinking about kangaroo babies in pouches. I really want a puppy or a kitten.
Hi HG! I think I’ll just head the gym in yoga pants and work on my somatic elements right now. I can read a book on the elliptical to assist my cerebral side. The two will merge to form my more ultra deportment. I’m mirroring you—don’t forget. Then I’ll take some selfies and upload 8-9 on a dating site where I’ll discuss my trips to exotic locations. Please advise on the rest of my instructions. Otherwise I’m thinking paint is drying on this thread—why waste an hour of cardio looking it over?! Maybe some sit ups too.
Hi Woke—morning. The banter has been fun but it’s clear less is the preferred ongoing directive to an extent, so we have to behave. I’m going to go feed my dogs and make coffee. Have a good day.
I’ll do yoga. It helps mindfulness you know and you have to be quiet. Never speak.
So HG—you say you allow levity at times. What is the rule on levity? Is it one sentence or two or three so I commit no attention seeking infractions today.
Lorelei , I hope you enjoyed your birthday sweetheart ❤ we scorpios are strong!
Pati—I catered to 12-year-olds at a mall! It was cute.
No, everyone knows I hate people, if you work in recruitment you hire and fire, its brutal…Your job is to find talent not hold their hands, career coach is about achieving your goals, not being emotional and setting out strategy To obtain your desired result,effectively get the job you want.
I’m very good at what I do, plus I worked 16 years in security I know how to handle myself. Blood, vomit, fights and drunk women kicking you lol
I’m well aware people can Google me lol
I have also dated famous people in my past and have been talked about.
It does not bother me.
Fair enough, Julie P.
My observations were strictly about your opinions here.
As for your career coaching skills, I could use a person like you.
Thanks for coming out of the woodwork this weekend!
Boy you must be a real boon at parties
There is a time for parties and a time to be serious. I didn’t know narcissistic abuse was hilarious.
Not very woke of you
I think this is about the time we are supposed to tell you you’re high on emotion but low on substance 😆
You don’t get to decide when it’s time to be serious. You aren’t *superior* to anyone here.
If you think you have some *status* or *authority* to decide that , and that you are *entitled* to enter a forum as a noob and based on a few comments *namecall* Lorelei a narc, and *blameshift* your anger in an *non-empathic* manner onto ppl who have been nothing but friendly to each other, then your opinion is not valid.
Just to clarify WokeAF, Julie is not a noob. She does not often comment but has been reading my work for a long time and has been reading the blog for a longtime. I understand why you assume she is a noob as she does not often comment.
That and ..well..if she’s been reading a long time I’d have thought her ET would be lower and self awareness would be higher
Either that or that she’d have been flushed out and lost interest
It’s interesting how you clarify Julie’s status as not a noob HG—but not the observations of my not having split thinking which you are well aware of my tendency to see many shades of grey.
In the end, you took one for the team in this case
Because it was educational and I do believe HG is a time bender
. Much love Lorelei 💕
HG I met you in my dreams for the first time last night!
Hey now!!don’t get the wrong idea it was very innocent!
Never said I was superior, that’s your emotional thinking
I said my opinion based on factual observations, if they were inaccurate that would have been corrected.
I called out an individual on their behaviour and instead of seeing the information and analysing everyone started using their emotions.
Lorelei does exhibit that behaviour, my opinion whether I belong in your clique is still valid whether you like it or not
Everything you’ve said reeks of superiority.
Your observations aren’t factual
For eg Lorelei is not a narc. Will you apologize for calling her one? Or do you not do accountability?
There are no cliques on Narcsite
Julie P’s observations are rather logical and evidence-based.
Note: it was FM1T who first brought up narcissism as related to Lorelei. I, for one, did not think she was joking.
When did I bring up narcissism about Lorelei? I’m sorry lisk I don’t remember that. Usually it was Lorelei calling herself a narcissist ( jokingly ) and me telling her she was not a narcissist. To call someone a narcissist without proof is a horrible thing to do. If I said it and you believed me lisk I am sorry. I believe things have gotten out of control on the blog, it has been ongoing for awhile now. The banter and laughs we have are great, but not if it is upsetting other readers. I believe it’s time for me to leave this place. I’ve had enough of people’s feelings being hurt, we have to put up with that from the narcissists in are lives, we shouldn’t have to put up with it on here.
I apologize, FM1T. I revisited your comments.
You did not call Lorelei a narcissist. You called her a drama queen, which I read/remembered as “narcissist,” especially once Julie P introduced the term and backed it up with her evidence.
I realize that I also could have read “drama queen” as “borderline,” but Julie P’s evidence, as well as my own observations, leaned me towards possible narcissism.
That said, I’m surprised that an empath would say he/she had enough of other likely empaths’ feelings being hurt—especially when no one mentioned their feelings being hurt!
Lisk
You wouldn’t know that myself calling her a drama queen is a joke between us. As far as I’m concerned she is an empath! HG did the detector on her, so unless you all believe him to be incorrect in his determination that she is in fact an empath I am finished discussing it!
FM1T
Not that anyone should have to qualify it, but I wondered if/when someone would raise the issue of Lorelei having had the Empath Detector done and having previously provided the results. It could have cleared a lot up of wondering and/or accusation for some to have perhaps politely inquired instead. Not that an answer is required, and it is certainly not HG’s place to provide confirmation since consultations are strictly guarded by confidentiality, but in this case the information was previously provided by Lorelei herself. As well, HG has allowed us to witness the odd appearance and comment here of a narcissist for educational reasons, but not with the frequency that Lorelei has been here to comment (she is a regular commenter), or with the many friendly exchanges that have occurred between them. It appears some remedial may be required for those not astute enough to catch that glaring fact alone.
Hg approves
Approve of what HG? Are you implying no empath detector was done?
No I am not implying it. I respect the confidentiality terms therefore as NA rightly pointed out, I remain silent. I have never breached them.
I’m not sure what NA is implying beyond stating you allow narcs here for educational purposes and you state approval. You did an empath detector and stated results I’ve previously mentioned—just the other day. Is what I posted incorrect? Have you ever told me I was a narcissist?
No I have not. Ask NA if she is implying something. She rarely does. She’s direct.
I did ask—she is direct but I’m
Lost as to what she was saying. I think she was asking if I was allowed a platform for educational purposes thus far, but I’m not feeling like she has ever shared your more inflammatory notion of my behavior. All you had to do was ask me to tone it down. Fortunately you will never know the demise of all energy and spunk—to have it return. I am not lost on being overly abundant, but to use it as a form of decay for further growth by siphoning the message from an infrequent commenter illustrates a lack of true regard to your own work. I’m in an excellent professional capacity to promote the value of your work and of course I do. Maybe the next time I almost end up asphyxiated I’ll have learned to be a little more elegant in my recovery once my energy returns. Weeks ago upon the return of my energy you could easily have suggested it was not entirely appropriate in such capacity. It was not until the summer I actually felt better. I’m totally open to feedback because I’m not an asshole and I have been attempting to clean up my life. You have no idea how bad my life was and the gains that have been made. No idea.
Lorelei
Your ET is understandably high right now but take a breath. I have answered you but the comments are in moderation. I’m advocating FOR you not against you. You will never remain unclear where I am concerned.
Thank you NA. I’m aware that I am upset—more so because I keep mucking up how I do “this.” I’m exhausted. Every day I’m exhausted. My only reprieve is my work. Yet, even my work is emotionally exhaustive. I do not have issues with my ex per se—my issues are me at this point. I’m bowing out more so and looking for something more personal and less under a microscope of scrutiny. I will be here as HG’s work is excellent but there will be less banter. It’s not worth the hassle and this nonsense of who is what is not helpful. I clearly have fucked up how I’ve tried to clean things up and I’m done.
Girl put that fucking crown back on right now!
Deep breath, straighten up!
You’re losing it a little because of ET because a narc accused you of being a narc. This is what them fuckers do to us
I’m sorry if my part in pressing the matter upset you. I wanted the rush of the flush
You’re all good. Bury this insecurity you haven’t missed anything. Bring back that sass ass immediately
In the words of a middle greater “shake it off”
It’s not what has my ET high—not entirely. My mom fell again today and my best friend is in crisis. It’s an accumulation of factors.
Hello Non-N Lorelei, Your comment illustrates perfectly why it is unfortunate that certain commenters feel compelled to diagnose a non-narcissist as either a narcissist or a narcissist lieutenant. I believe they do so in response to their own issues. NA was referring to the seagulls that fly by dumping obvious N crap and then leaving (or being blocked). They also seem to return to KTN with regularity. You are not one of these.
I find it interesting that anyone would cast aspersions on this site to a non-narcissist. What drives their comments? Why do they not ask questions? Why do they rush to judgement? Why do they seek to put others down to build themselves up? Why is there no empathy present in their comments? Do they feel good about their comments?
She didn’t land here accidentally FYC.
Lorelei
I am not implying anything. I am STATING that HG OCCASIONALLY allows narcissists to comment so that we can learn from both their comments and his response. You are OBVIOUSLY not a narcissist because you comment frequently and he engages in banter with you. He does not interact with narcissists the way that he does with you. I have explained in another post that clearly YOU ARE NOT A NARCISSIST.
Stand down Kitty Has Claws. I have no beef with you lol.
Oh dear NA—I didn’t mean you were saying that—I was just confused because your comment mingled with having the occasional narcissist here. The correlation of statements was not clear. It’s hard to sometimes read written material, texts. I’m truly more concerned about my close friend today. I’m simply waiting for her to arrive as she is staying with me a few days. She’s in a bad situation that is increasingly worse and It is not easy to watch what she is experiencing. It’s impacting my clarity—it’s narcissist oriented and so I’m more irritable about the impact of narcissism as a whole today than typical even for me.
Thank you NA for noticing that! I was beginning to think I was the only one that caught that.
NA—are you asking if I really had an empath detector done? I’m unclear? I’m also unclear on what HG is approving of in his reply. Please help me gain clarity on your post.
Lorelei
I am saying that not only do we know that you are not a narcissist, but that you confirmed previously that you had the Empath Detector done and you provided the results. If someone was unclear about you, or any banter about you being a narc, they could have inquired politely if you were aware of your status and if you cared to share instead of assuming or accusing otherwise. It was not incumbent upon you to provide it though.
I’ll be clearer:
You are not a narcissist.
You are not in the dungeon.
Carry on as usual unless The Boss (HG for those unclear) advises you otherwise.
And who have my friendly exchanges been with? Are these also pathological in nature?
Lorelei, I think HG is proving he doesn’t break the confidentiality one way or another. He won’t tell whether we have taken one test or the other. But we can. He doesn’t mind if we say so but he won’t say it himself. He hasn’t even proven wrong some people that assumed being a certain kind of Empath to later confess they never had the detector done. It could be irritating to us because of our emotions being high when these conflicts happen but it shows his equanimity, something I wish I possessed many times.
Correct SP.
I take the confidentiality provisions very seriously, otherwise the system of consulting will not work. This extends to all consultations. If people wish to declare what the result of the relevant detector is, that is a matter for them.
I would also add (and I will probably do this in a few other places also) that both the Narc Detector and Empath Detector consultations are entirely accurate, they have been formulated in a particular way to ensure this is the case and were repeatedly tested prior to being offered as a service here. I am not at liberty to explain why they are so effective, as that would impact on their efficacy, but the way they have been designed is to ensure accuracy and to avoid being “gamed” (I see when that is happening and it will generate a particular outcome). Individuals have full confidence in their effectiveness, indeed the feedback supports that.
HG, Thank you for confirming the accuracy of your detector series. I was disturbed by some readers casually discounting or discrediting your Detectors as unreliable.
You are welcome, FYC. Thank you for your good offices as always.
I will be adding some further comment with regard to this thread (now being able to do so, following my limited moderation) to ensure clarification and accuracy.
HG, As always, you are welcome. I look forward to your commentary and further clarification, as this thread contained some rather venomous innuendo. I would be interested in your confirmation or denial of the same for my own edification.
I will bring clarification.
DAD’S HOME DAD’S HOME!!
🎈 🎈🎈🎈YAAAAAY
Did you bring us presents?!
Im Darth Vader, but not your father.
I did. My presence.
Your presence is the BEST present!
Wheeeee 🎊
Sweet P, your comment:
November 19, 2019 at 16:29
“…I expressed some time ago my tiredness of seeing the word narcissist thrown on one of us freely every now and then every time someone didn’t agree with another person or simply didn’t like that person so much. It’s starting to seem like a rite of passage, you haven’t been in the blog enough time if you haven’t been accused of being a narcissist. The only expert on the matter who can accurately determine who is a narcissist is HG. I would ask everyone else to refrain from offering unnecessary and hurtful labeling….”
100 likes. Thank you for stating this.
NA, that’s why I didn’t even go to there to discuss that. Of course Lorelei is not a narc. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I expressed some time ago my tiredness of seeing the word narcissist thrown on one of us freely every now and then every time someone didn’t agree with another person or simply didn’t like that person so much. It’s starting to seem like a rite of passage, you haven’t been in the blog enough time if you haven’t been accused of being a narcissist. The only expert on the matter who can accurately determine who is a narcissist is HG. I would ask everyone else to refrain from offering unnecessary and hurtful labeling. If you don’t like talking about makeup, hair products, credit cards, or whatever topic that does not seem appropriate to you but that HG doesn’t mind allowing in the blog, ignore the thread or create your own blog. I agree with you, NA. Who is anyone here to determine the topics allowed for discussion, but the creator and moderator of the blog himself?
Sensible observations
Thank you HG. This is getting old. I wonder who would be chosen as the December narc of the month, maybe we could do a calendar! (no, not naked).
FM1T,
True, I would not know any of that information.
FM1T,
I need to say something to you .please do not leave this blog your input and the advice you have giving me I will never forget . You were the very first person that responded to me when I first came here . If it wasnt for you I wouldn’t have done the Narc Detector on my husband.
You have given me the courage and confidence to express my feelings here .You have warned me about Brutal Truth ,and have a great sense of humour. I will always be grateful. I will hopefully also cross the Emotional Sea .Thank you so much. 💕
Pati,
You are probably one of the sweetest people that have come to this blog in a very long time! I know you will cross that emotional sea dear, stay with HG and he will get you across and standing on dry land once again! Helping people like you when they first come to the blog is what I enjoy doing most of all. I had people helping me when I first started on here ( NA ) and I wanted to pay it forward. I have a lot going on in my personal life at this time and need to take some time away from the blog. Keep that courage and your confidence, they were always in there we just had to tug at them a little bit to have them shine through! Keep taking those baby steps and never give up, I’ll be back when and if I can. Take care Sweetie, Listen to HG! 😘💞
FM1T,
You are giving me hope and I have my head up high today . Thank you for compliment .
Take as much time away from the blog as you need to you deserve to have some time to yourself. I will take your advice and listen to HG.it has been a rollercoaster for me as my inlaws are also Narcissist’s but I can deal with them. It’s my husband that I am concerned about at the present time.
I will never forget your kind words and your thoughtfullness. You will always be in my heart ❤ I hope the next time you are on the blog I can update you on my situation. For now take care of yourself you are number 1 priority . Thank again FM1T
Thank you Pati! You will be just fine! You do not need hope if you have HG! 😘💞
So true 😘
FM1T
Enjoy a break if you need one. We all need one some times and I’m a bit weary myself presently. I read somewhere else that you will be having surgery and are stockpiling HG’s books in preparation. A good plan (add copious amounts of chocolate). All will be well and I look forward to your eventual return.
NA (Sista)
NA,
There can never be enough chocolate! Lol. I’d rather have chocolate then the pain pills they give you. It use to surprise me how much a break can really do for you, but now I know when it’s time to go. Thank you NA! You are by far the best Sister anyone could ever have!! Love you Sista! 😘💞
NA,
I have been thinking about this comment you wrote and also how important you are to me! You have always been there for me NA and I don’t think I’ve told you enough times how much I appreciate everything you did for me. You have been there from the start, always the voice of reason and logic, supporting me in the beginning when I was afraid to comment on the blog because I couldn’t write what I was trying to say and I was afraid no one would understand me. Protecting me from mid rangers that would fly through that window that HG would let open from time to time. Later as I learned and grew you would allow me a chance at that mid ranger before you swooped in and helped. Now you allow me to take care of them on my own. One of my proudest moments was when I got sent to the Dungeon and you were there waiting, it took me almost four years to get sent to that damn dungeon! Lol. I by passed the naughty step all together! I couldn’t imagine coming this far without you, when I help someone new like Pati when they first come to the blog, I always think of you and the support you gave me and although I do it in a different ( no one is as bad ass as you are) I hope I make you proud?! So for everything you have done for me NA, I thank you from the bottom of my heart! I wish you really were my sister!! I love you! Please don’t get sappy on me now! 😉💞
FM1T
I’m very proud of you and your progress but I take no credit – is all to you and the hard work you have undertaken from the Boss. Watching you pay any kindness or appreciation you feel forward to others and seeing you sit so much taller is immensely satisfying. I have benefitted greatly from your kindness as well, and though I have not mentioned it here, it will never be forgotten and has been, and will continue to be, paid forward.
That’s as sappy as it gets for me.
NA,
Wow! That’s pretty sappy for you! Lol. Love you sista. Take care. 🙃💞
FM1T, I’ll miss you in the blog but I know you need a rest. Take this time to recover, read all things Tudor, eat a lot of chocolate, and of course, mussels! And come back soon because I need you here 😘♥️
Thanks Sweetie! Somehow I don’t think mussels and chocolate go together to well?! Yuk! Stay out of trouble while I’m gone! 😘💞
Hahaha not together, silly! But mussels, chocolate and wine are my staples and so far I can’t complain. Life is good. Enjoy your break! ♥️
Thank you! I’m ready to get this over with and move forward. 🥰
I don’t know where to reply so I’ll just put it here. For the record if anyone was uncomfortable with anything I said yesterday I apologize. I know there are some here that are extremely uncomfortable with confrontation and I take that to heart and that is why my first instinct was to defend Lorelei. Maybe my comments escalated the circumstances. I want you all to know that after the first couple comments I was able to look at the situation as a learning experience as HG intended it. Please know that I did notice the veterans exit the room, I did notice at some point the back and forths became pointless and I did notice that I was unconsciously applying the things I learned here to the situation. Last night was the first night in the years I’ve been reading that I stopped just reading and took an active role in finding the information I needed from the articles HG has posted in the past to form my decision. I even thought about looking up Julie’s old comments to see if it’s been talked about before but I didn’t want to cheat. I feel horrible that I participated in comments that others were uncomfortable with but at the same time I am greatful that HG allowed the discussion because it gave me a safe environment to learn.
Mercy
No need to feel horrible or apologize. You were reacting to confrontation, but you didn’t cause it. It’s good if LT is present to consider timing and depth of involvement when participating, but that is not always possible or the case. Never let anyone silence you. Silence equals consent to some and we are done with that.
P.S We never left.
Narc Angle,
Haha well I know that now. I didn’t have you or K or the others to steer me in the right direction. I felt like a little kid trying to sit at the adult table except all the adults were gone.
I love your logic. Definitely makes me feel better. Thanks.
Oh THANKS lol 😉
I was wondering why I felt like I was out there swinging in the breeze with this one also
But , We can’t rely on the old timers to validate our radar iRL
I think it went rather well.
Managed to stay with LT , look for the manipulations, Provide the evidence – once (OK maybe twice lol) stick a stick in the wheel and watch her Wreck out .
It was good.
I notice she’s pretty quiet suddenly haha
WokeAF, the silence might be due to the guy running this show or we’re getting a silent treatment haha
I’m still here , just wondering what the world record is for most comments on a thread
Perfect reply, NA. Hear hear!
Hi FM1T,
I am sorry you feel the need to leave. (I know you are also soon having surgery?)
I share your opinion about banter – I enjoy it and engage in it but wouldn’t want it to hurt others’ feelings. Also, I try to balance my banter with constructive questions or comments. Which ANYONE can do – if they don’t like a particular thread, strike up a different conversation or just read elsewhere. With banter it is hard to judge because some people have different sensitivities to what is considered funny or offensive and isolated comments from one individual might cause another to prejudge (someone’s hilarity is sometimes someone else’s offensive ness – that is the nature of humor) that person. This site would certainly be less enjoyable without the humor and banter. The one thing that definitely is not enjoyable is open hostility and labelling.
I’m sorry if the recent conversations bother you; they bother me too. I hope you get some rest and recuperate soon from your surgery so that you can come back!
💙
WC
Everyone denies they are a narcissist as they don’t know what they are, besides greaters
And no there is nothing to apologise for, I called out behaviours I witnessed. That is all, lucky I’m versed on the crucible.
Julie P, I appreciate your comments and willingness to speak out on this matter.
Thanks lisk, i do see you
Hehe noob, man I’ve been called a hell of a lot worse and survived….
Julie you Posted:
“No, lets be honest here.
Lorelei is a narcissist. On this blog she has exhibited the following behaviours
Uses word salad
Pathogical liar
Grandiose delusions
Gaslights her children
Constant need to be the centre of attention
Lacks empathy
Blameshifts”
You also said instead of analyzing, ppl went into their ET
SO in the interest of analysis, can you please provide some evidence of the above list of behaviours? You can go back and copy/paste if you can’t think of it off the top of your head.
I have already provided that info, with mercy.
So you stand by this statement you made ?
“No, lets be honest here. Lorelei is a narcissist.”
Yes absolutely, we all know there are narcissists on this site.HG has said so, he isn’t going to reveal them, it doesn’t suit his purpose.
Narcissism is on a spectrum, im not saying Lorelei is disordered I’m saying she has many many narcissistic traits, its obvious. Which I have highlighted.
No- you flat out called her a narcissist.
We all have narc traits and done more than others. Part of narc abuse is a) wondering if you yourself might be a narc at some point in recovery and b) wondering if everyone who has high narc traits is a narc
That’s why the whole picture is needed – not some comments in a blog.
These two reasons stated above is also why I’m pursuing this.
It’s parts of the learning/recovery process to learn to look at the persons history, relationships, behaviour etc as a pattern
And while HG can determine a narc just by their interactions here, I’d guess most of us CANT
You flat out called her a narcissist.
You did not just say she has high narc traits
A narcissist IS disordered.
Either you have high narc traits but are not a narc or you’re disorders. There is a point on the spectrum when it crosses over .
Would you like to rescind your statement that Lorelei is a narcissist?
Yes to answer your question I believe she is…
You like to overstep boundaries woke, however
I will say it again
Her constant need for attention, she cannot take no as a plausible answer, she lacks empathy, has black and white thinking, grandiose thinking and sense of entitlement, constant need to be right without seeing others point of view, rejects everything unless it suits her agenda.
HG pulled her up for mindfulness and she cracked it. Empaths apologise and feel guilt. She doesn’t care who she hurts unless she gets her way.
If someone said you need to be more humble I would think about it seriously and see how my behavior impacts others.
She said I’m a smart ass, again this is not the sign of an empathic person, in my humble 43 years of living with narcissists.
You need to be more humble
To busy living my best life and not worrying what others think of me.
I’m humble enough thanks
Ok so you lied when you said
(One comment ago)
“ If someone said you need to be more humble I would think about it seriously and see how my behavior impacts others”
Or is this the lie?:
“To busy living my best life and not worrying what others think of me.
I’m humble enough thanks”
Also, ^*too
Mind blowing stuff
Jesus it means. I don’t care you what you think. I live my life how I chose.
And I’m doing great… thank you :).
I think challenge fuel messes with the part of your brain that Would normally go to typing and grammar
I do not require challenge fuel or any kind of fuel except for my car.
I’m not interested in power at all.
I’m just healthy enough to recognise other people’s opinions of me, do not matter. If i really gave shit what you thought, it would be more known. I just find it amusing you can’t let it go.
Oh? What is it you think I can’t let go?
Just curious if you can remember -it was you flat out calling Lorelei a narcissist which she isn’t.
Throw in some histrionic for good measure, she covers those patterns of behavior. In My humble opinion that is….
Your welcome 🙂
What school/cadre do you figure her for?
Woke—it cracks me up that I don’t even know the schools and cadres! I always mix it up and I don’t think I have one for one of the things. I just know I’m not a serial killer. It would be too messy and the panty hose they wear on their heads would cause static in my hair.
Lorelei
Ha ha ha…here you go. It’s very reassuring to read that you aren’t a serial killer BTW.
HG Tudor says:
March 7, 2019 at 18:18
Hello Kristin and welcome, I am pleased you are finding my work useful.
There are four schools of empath – Standard (most empaths), Co-Dependent (moderately common), Super (rare) and Contagion (very rare).
The cadres include – Carrier, Saviour, Martyr, Geyser, Magnet
https://narcsite.com/2019/02/23/trapped-the-car-9/#comment-249916
Thanks K. Standard with no cadre unless a contagion minority is a cadre as he said a “total hybrid.” Who knows—it’s all rambling to me. But no—I don’t rob liquor stores either with panty hose on my head.
My pleasure Lorelei!
Ha ha ha…how about peeping Tom or panty sniffing?
Panty sniffing nope!
K—how did you find this?
Lorelei
That comment was in my notes but you can find the answer in this article, too.
https://narcsite.com/category/empathic-traits/
“There are four schools of empath (Co-Dependent, Standard, Super and Contagion). There are many cadres of empath which layer on to those schools. These cadres include the Carrier, the Magnet and the Geyser, about which I have written previously. A further cadre is that of the Saviour Empath.”
K—great piece that I’ve seen before but a good reminder. I just didn’t pay attention to the empathic stuff for the longest time and even up until this time as it seemed a fairly odd concept as much of this stuff has. I didn’t realize the deep grasp of HG’s work extending into these concepts. I’ve only in the last week or two had much inquiry that I recall. If I did converse previously on the topic I wasn’t really in a recall mode. I’m not sure it makes a huge difference really because it is what it is or I am what I am—fortunately or unfortunately. I do recall a Facebook empath group someone added me to when much of this began—I was genuinely irritated because while I thought that surely the people were nice they were ridiculous to be catering to people. I did not cater so much to others (at times I did) but more importantly failed to cater to my own needs.
Was it you that I mentioned I keep getting overdue notes from our library re, a book I borrowed? You had given me a few suggestions I put on Overdrive but I got some physical items as well. I feel very devilish that I will not return my item until I am done. I pay taxes and they aren’t accumulating fees any longer as part of an amnesty initiative. I have officially gone off the beaten path. I’m gaining thought fuel each week that I receive the overdue email.
Lorelei
There’s a lot of information on narcsite and it takes time to absorb it all, once you get your LT up and running, it becomes easier to retain it.
I did read your comment re: the overdue notices. Ha ha ha…you naughty girl! You better return those overdue books or else! I usually renew them online.
K—where is the word for the day?
Lorelei
The word of the day is: whangdoodle.
When my fury erupts I pull a real whangdoodle! Or am I the whangdoodle? This could get philosophical as hell.
My guess would be there’s a lot of magnet in you lol did HG not clarify on your detector?
I got a few consultations before the actual detectors were a thing. It was mostly a consult around my narcs, but from what I provided about myself , He determined I have magnet traits and standard but it wasn’t a thorough detector like they are now with percentages and such so I’m quite keen to get that done
Had to look: not high in anything—mostly equal percentages adding up to 100%. I think there is some self promotion on the magnet thing as it seems desirable but nothing that attracts narcissists is desirable when in their domain. They exploit and abuse. Period.
Magnet sounds appealing bc it is. To Narcs and empaths and normals.
In MY experience, as best as I understand the cadres IRL so far, the ones I feel generally confident ive bailed down, my experience is;
Carriers are backbones- really solid and get shit done.
Geysers are so affectionate and loving but I find them exhausting IRL (as I’m sure many find me lol) Then again I may mistake a narc for a geyser due to the Penchant for what feels to me like histrionics.
Martyrs no idea. I think I work with one not sure on her yet. She has narc traits so still on the fence
Saviours I love until they start bossing me. They want to motivate me and get me going but I’m lazy and like to do shit in my own time so I have to try to chill them out without making them feel unappreciated or rejected.
Love love love magnets !! The only thing I don’t like is they can get too cocky.(heh. Ahem . 😳*cough*)
Anyways I may be wrong across the board but that’s my take so far
What is a magnet anyway? I know I’m a narc magnet. Basically you lock eyes and know it’s time to get a room. No need for chatting—you just know.
Lorelei
When you have chance check these articles out.
https://narcsite.com/2016/11/09/the-magnet-empath/
https://narcsite.com/2019/07/03/narc-magnet-9/comment-page-1/
Brexiting: saying goodbye to everyone at a party and the continue to stick around. I.e: what’s up with Julie? I thought she was leaving. Apparently, she’s just brexiting.
If she’s brexiting her currency will go to shit.
I live in Australia wrong country lol
I really like kangaroos, I think they are adorable but my understanding is that they are a nuisance to native Australians.
Incorrect Lorelei, there are more kangaroos in Australia than people. They are on our coat of arms as well as the emu as both can’t run backwards, meaning Australia is always moving forward.
Native Australians have much respect for them, part of dream time culture. We do cull for population maintenance, however most of the population won’t eat them. They are protected.
I’ve heard them described as painful like hitting deer—car damage. I want one. Not sure the airports will allow it. I want one with a baby in the pouch. I have a big yard.
Never said I was leaving, no reason too : ) my decision to stay or go, like everything else. You can chose to engage or disengage.
All I did was call out some behavior i have wittnessed.
However doesn’t mean I sit here thinking of you lot all day.
I ask because, you’ve stated Lorelei is a narcissist, and you’ve said you stand by that opinion
But HG did an Empath Detector on her and confirmed she is an empath.
So since you must know more about this than HG himself, I thought you might at least know what school she is.
By the way, have you done an empath detector ?
I did not say she has no empathy, she lacks it. I think she can fake it. Mainly because she is not a giver.
found it interesting that – she had to ask HG for clarification of what she is, Meaning she didn’t sound quite sure……
She is heavily co dependant in my opinion, I’m opposite.
Me: firstly I identify as a Super, mainly because I have high narcissistic traits and can lower my empathy, I am confrontational, I have a history of wounding, I have some emotional thinking however I am very analytical and logical in my approach. I rather try to use my emotions intuitively than just feel for the sake of feeling…No contact no worries. I’m not a loVe devotee.
Outside of HGs definitions I’m an intuitive empath.
Also if someone has called her a drama queen, then by some definition she manipulates amd needs to be the centre of attention.
Again just my humble opinion.
That’s actually really interesting , Julie.
So- do you ever like, recommend people to come to this blog?
Or are you able to just kind of summarize what you know for them?
Like GOSO etc, the behaviours- the terms like “histrionic” “gaslight” etc – are you able to explain that stuff in real life to people ? Do people listen ?
Yes I recommend HG’s work. My circle of friends know who he is relatively speaking. I do not summarise for people not my place to do so.
Julie, no that’s not how it works. You said Lorelei is a narcissist, is dangerous and lacks empathy. Those are your words. Now you say she has many narcissist traits. A non narcissist with many narcissist traits has empathy. So are you changing your mind? Are you now saying she isn’t a narcissist.
And I’d still Love to know where the stats came from :
“Most people on this blog are over 40 and 50 and close to 60 and act like they have all the time in the world to sort their shit out. Most cannot provide shelter and a safe environment for themselves or children. Many don’t even have real friends“
WokeAF, haha yes I noticed that one . Its funny, yesterday I thought some of her comments had a Trump feel to them. Spouting of random stats and just general statements that sounded like “it’s true because I said it”.
Here is where i get the info
Music and culture references, when they try to guess HG’S age, its usually around their own age or older
How they speak and terminology
Plus profile pic photos, especially on FB gives it away.
Millenials understand narcissism more as they are growing up with more narcissistic traits, social media, needing instant gratification with likes etc
Also, Julie…you said you stand by your statement that Lorelei is a narcissist.
Then you said you don’t think she’s disordered
THEN you said .
“Im am also hoping her attitude towards other females becomes more of a supportive one and less of what was on this blog, I also hope she empathises with what it feels like to be judged and ridiculed.its not very nice, the feeling of being attacked.“
🤦♀️
This shows a very strong misunderstanding of narcissism. A narc would not and CAN NOT change their behaviour, their attitude , be supportive (unless it’s for a selfish reason), and the idea a narc could EMPATHIZE is ludicrous.
If your understanding of narcissism is this weak- I feel it’s dangerous for you to be calling out readers of the blog for being narcissists or even narcissistIC .If new subbers listened to you, It’d be like the blind leading the blind.
She is defintley on a spectrum and yes i consider her to be a narcissist and yes i know what it means as my mother has NPD. The spectrum is wide, as you would know, I am not a doctor to diagnose, but I know said behaviors. That is my opinion.
And sorry I’m on my way to a concert this evening… One does have a life to lead
Exit stage left
Aaaaaand it’s a wrap!!
Thanks for coming out folks
(With a little dose of circular conversation, and word salad on the way out)
Again what word salad?
I don’t think you understand word salad
I do not use circular language.am I not blunt enough?
I can be brutally honest if you want me to be, but I only use that for people who really need to hear it.
You cannot break me, don’t even try. It’s pointless, your time can be better served.
I’m seriously questioning my own sanity talking to you people… Yep I’m a rare narcissist that has a heart and has empathy and I ride on a unicorn name trixie, and live with puff the magic dragon…..And we sail the seas on sailboat called narcmcnarcface
Are you for real? HG has got his work cut out with you mate.
That was fun! Kind of a rush – Do you guys get that real life too? The Rush of the Flush? 🚽
I think that comment speaks more about you than it does about me
But keep going…. You like a fool
Ok 🤷♀️ If you were …I’d guess MMR, despite the success. You “feel” like a MMR female I know .
But – like I said- one cant use a few comments on a blog to be determinative .
Middle ranges use pity plays and sulk does it look like I sulk or play games.
Someone else is sulking in the dungeon currently trying to understand mindfulness.
Also I didn’t get this far not trusting my intuition and instinct, so to say it again, I stand by what I said.
Im am also hoping her attitude towards other females becomes more of a supportive one and less of what was on this blog, I also hope she empathises with what it feels like to be judged and ridiculed.its not very nice, the feeling of being attacked.
I also have fantastic intuition but it’s wrong sometimes. For example, your demeanour red flags you to me as being a narcissist yourself. However I’ve learned that an empath can come off as haughty, superior, lacking empathy, entitled etc TO ME and that doesn’t mean they are a narc.
This is important bc all we need is all the wesponized empaths out there pointing fingers “narc! narc!” Bc they recognize some traits and are SO INTUITIVELY SURE of themselves without the whole picture.
A new sub might then think your statement that Lorelei is a narc is correct- and thereafter think super empaths or empaths with high narc traits are narcs
This is not helpful.
A super empath is not a narc, I have high narcissism
I may lack sympathy but I do feel empathy, and I try to encourage people to realise narcissistic abuse doesn’t mean you can’t be successful, that you can’t obtain freedom, that you can’t find whatever you want in life.
I don’t laugh about narcissistic abuse, I get up and fight for me and others, stop being a victim and know your worth and if you hate yourself do not project that on others, or I will come for you.
No excuses, get up and move forward, use Information on this site and become the best version of yourself.
And stop using banter as a tool for not implementing no contact. There is a time for fun and time for work.
I will say this again, you cannot come out on top if you have empathy with a narcissist. It’s GOSO, you will lose
Hint, the argument never finishes it just goes round in circles….
“ And stop using banter as a tool for not implementing no contact. There is a time for fun and time for work.”
Well that’s clear and concise advice for everybody.
😆
Girl you’re circling the drain just flush already
ANYWAY, Lorelei I think you’re very funny.
I sure hope you’re not a narc. 😆
Julie- no idea what I think of you – I guess I hope you’re not a narc either, just for the good of the world
HG thx for the forum for levity and learning
Anyways I gotta dip out , I can’t afford to be wrapped up in one of these -. I’m packing the house this week as I’m moving back into the trailer park next week WOOOOT! I missed it so 💕
Hi Woke—good luck packing. I’ve been unpacking after a renovation that I had to pack it all up for.. I had someone do most of it but not all. I may sell the house in the spring but I’m sentimental about my landscaping and things I’ve planted over the years. Isn’t that crazy? I get attached to little things. My mother’s home is my childhood home as well—I’m deeply sentimental about it. It’s a funny little neighborhood I grew up in. A group of families lived in tiny little houses and none of them ever left. They are all extended family and now aging and it’s like taking a knife to the chest each time one meets ill health.
The reason I ask is this:
if you point out an informed opinion that anyone here is a narcissist
and HG does not correct you
—then I have to assume you may be correct. I would then be watching this other person’s interactions on the blog and thinking to myself in the back of my mind that they may be a narcissist and therefore watching their behaviour as such.
You seemed very concerned about other new subscribers on the blog and actually about the seriousness of narcissistic abuse so if you are in all seriousness saying that Lorelei is a narc
(And I have not heard you take the statement back or apologized for it or explain it as anything other than what it is)
– then you have to also realize the impact you are having on some of ya and potentially new subs.
On the other hand if LORELEI is in fact NOT a narcissist, or if someone on this blog is called a narcissist and HG knows better and he corrects it, then I will be lol’ing at the accuser – with that lens- trying to figure out if it is their school/cadre of empath or if they are in fact a narcissist themselves to be so callous, haughty and superior and entitled to make an unfounded claim against another empath here.
We had this happen once before here and I found it very UNHELPFUL.
Much more confusing and unhelpful than a bit of joking about yoga pants .
^^^* That should have read “I will be LOOKING at the accuser-“. (Autocorrect)
Not lol’ing- although I would find it amusing.
whoops , my bad
That should’ve been “PROJECT your anger.
Not blame shift
Hmmm let’s see… I guess the calling me not-Woke could be a blameshift.
(?) one of the others will know
You may not need to “hide behind an avatar”
Had it actually not occurred to you how many of us have *actual* dangerous narcissists who can track us down here and we’d be toast if they did?
This really freaks me out – that certain high functioning narcs could potentially weaponize themselves here with the terminology and improve their game.
And be life coaches.
Narcissists would not do so, Woke AF.
1. Greaters have no need.
2. The Lesser and Mid Range do not know what they are and they do not learn to manipulate, it is inbuilt in them through the narcissism. They do not think about manipulating. Accordingly, they do not “study” manipulation.
I don’t mean consciously though. By learning the terminology and such- go pointing fingers at victims …or ingratiating themselves with empaths as the “protector” etc
This is probably not going to be a popular comment but I think I have learned to manipulate as I’ve come to understand narcissist behavior. Not that I do the manipulating, but there are times when dealing with the narcissist that I have thought of better ways he could have manipulated a situation.
Which demonstrates you are not a narcissist.
Non-narcissists do not instinctively manipulate as control is not needed. They may occasionally consciously manipulate, but it is rare and they are not that good at it.
But now we can recognize the manipulation which is more important to us than being good at manipulating.
Exactly right. Logic.
Thank you!
So then when it is instinctive they dont think about they just do it without thinking?
Yes, that is the nature of instinct. Like breathing. You do it without thinking about it.
It’s starting to make sense I am slowly learning .
Grade 1 level perhaps
It is not so much the learning Pati, but being able to apply it. You are living with a narcissist (as I understand from comments) this means your ET is always high, therefore it is hard for logic to get a foothold.
You are absolutely right HG, I am married to one. I know he is Narcissist and I cant apply logic it’s so hard for me, because of my ET I will be consulting with you soon and I want and need you to please help me. Thank you.
Pati. Please remember you are the key to the whole thing coming together. HG and all of us can help but it falls to you. And I have no doubt once you have had enough and just a little bit of LT gets thru……you will be on your way!!❤️❤️❤️
I will I know it ,i just need confidence and you and SP have given it me. You are very kind people that know what I am going through . I hope one day I can be on this blog Narc Free and can give the exact same advice to someone else. Love ya! 😘
I never said to go public, I said HG doesn’t care who you are. But it’s easier to say things and not think of the consequences when you hide.
Though being stalked by so called Lolita is a first.
Julie, that’s not what you said. What you said was “does anyone really care who the fuck you are?” Which I just read as going public too. Now I know what you mean, but not after first reading your comment. In any case, HG may not give a fuck who we are, but we have a right to keep our anonymity if we decide so like he does with his.
Let me clarify, I like many won’t care who you are, I don’t have time to wonder what the whole world is doing, its a bit much to think everyone is going to care who I am or what I’m doing. And if they continuously look at what I do or I am, well thanks but I’m not that special.
You have more important things to do like looking after your own well being.
Rude.
Awe NA—exactly!
Probably not Cyn! I’m not sure where gaslighting children came into the mix. Maybe I’ll ask them. Or the IG models? I only learned of the yoga pants they wear yesterday so it was a quick devaluation of their persona. I am floridly attention seeking though. Just this week.
Lorelei, Ignore the above. I’m sure everyone will agree that your sense of humor is much appreciated. Just because we’re here to learn about a serious subject doesn’t mean we’re exempt from laughing.
Off subject, I was googling Eby panties yesterday and came across the “sissy pouch”. If you have not seen these I beg you to Google them.
Hi Mercy—I’ll look for the panties!. It is ok—this subject is very serious and I wasn’t laughing when I got here. It’s hard to appreciate variations in personalities at times too—we don’t really know one another and our stories are often raw and rambunctiousness can seem exploitative and maybe narcissistic. It’s not even a bother. A more profound goal I have is to really be astute at honing in on what’s inherently pathological or not, and I presume many stabs at this take place here—amongst those that are here. It’s fair game.
Lorelei, I wanted you to look them up because I thought you could use a laugh. I’m glad you are not bothered by the earlier comment. Your contribution is valued.
Julie, Lorelei is a nice person having a good time.
Julie: what this page should or shouldn’t be is HG’s call. Not yours, not mine.
Thus far, he seems fine with our occasionally using humor to keep us from wallowing in our respective miseries. Most of us do enough whining, both here and privately.
I believe if it gets excessive, he’ll be quite capable of letting us know.
I delete the excess and have done so when it strays too far.
HG , how is SM ? I hope she is doing well. I hope you are treating her nice these days.
I will ask her later.
She is busy in the armoury at the moment.
Oh dear poor SM, well when you do have the chance please ask. Thank you!
She is tip top. And why would she not be, she is with me!
HG, that’s good to know. She is with you and I wish you both the best of luck in the future .
Control, especially in comment threads, can be quite a good thing.
I appreciate your posting of minority/diverse opinions such as Julie P’s.
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, the issue is whether it is one which is well-formed or not. I recognise how some people require levity at times from some of the subject matter, although there are occasions it goes too far off topic and thus I apply some pruning. I also recognise how others may find some levity unnecessary and that it detracts from something which has very serious repercussions on people. I allow people to air their observations as in doing so, that also promotes learning in terms of the character of people who comment here, how they react to one another and the manner in which they react to one another.
I appreciate your thorough response, HG.
As the Narcx said numerous times in our relationship, “People always reveal themselves.”
*****
Of course, basking in the Golden Period as I was, little did I think Narcx was giving me a heads-up about himself. Not once did I ask myself, as I should have, “Hmmm, I wonder how/when/why he’ll reveal himself?”
Live and Learn from HG, as they say!
HG: So THAT’S why my link to actual yoga pants with avocados on them didn’t make the cut!
Correct
HG , thank you for being here for us. You make this blog fun and interesting.
Dear Julie,
Who died and made you queen?
Affectionately,
Vi
Not queen, I actually think about what’s it’s like for new people on this site, looking for assistance and they see people laughing about narcissistic abuse, they see women calling or talking about celebrites or Gf of people in harsh and, cruel ways and talking about their dry vaginas, speaking about their children in such fashion, talking about men like they are the root of evil, also men meet narcissist women and I think how they must feel, reading comments and being disgusted in some of the behaviour on this site.
Not all people on this blog, but a good fair few..
I also see women play victim, its his fault, he did this and did that, when actually it’s you who is doing it to yourself.
How bout we act like grown mature women and take ownership of our shit and have constructive conversations with other people, instead of talking about things 9 year old girls would find funny.
Most people on this blog are over 40 and 50 and close to 60 and act like they have all the time in the world to sort their shit out. Most cannot provide shelter and a safe environment for themselves or children. Many don’t even have real friends.
So before commenting on who you hate for not really a good reason cos you don’t know them ie models, celebrities and the like, think about your words and take a look in the mirror and ask have I got my shit together, if not I can’t really talk.
The visa and pay pal fiasco, does anyone really care who the fuck you are? I’m mean truly. It went on and on and on…. Can’t work a visa card out, but seem to think keeping your anonymity is far more important than obtaining life altering information. I can see where talking about yoga pants and dancing on tables and what color suits you is far more important.
Let me tell you something else, I’m 43, have a job, a business, assets, a safe environment, men who I adore, friends that I enjoy, peace and a self worth no one can destroy and my narcissistic abuse is still going. If I can achieve this, so can anyone.
If you act like a victim you will always be a victim and some on this site want you to stay a victim as it suits their purpose, continuously feeding into their ego and need for pity and attention.
I don’t subscribe to such behaviours……
You called someone who’s not a narcissist- a narcissist. That’s pretty brutal , did you think about how that would affect her or other new subscribers?
Julie—your concerns could be reasonably discussed if presented in a manner conducive to reciprocal & pleasant banter. If you need HG’s help then consult and don’t read the comments if they are offensive. I assume the majority of his narcsite subscribers do not play in the comments section—it’s not a requirement. The “playground” (comments section) is often quite light so maybe it isn’t for you if you desire a more serious platform. If you come back with a coarse reply to this you won’t receive another reply from me because your intentions will be made. That will be fine—either way. **The content is indeed so heavy at times it has to intermingle with an airiness so we can catch our breath.
Tell that to Bezo’s GF whom you so kindly and warmly spoke of, don’t ask me to be friendly if you don’t behave in the same way.
Can only dish it out when you’re high on attention, but when it flies in your face? Different story
Somehow I don’t think Bezo’s GF would care
She s human isn’t she? But becuase she is not on the blog , you dont care….So if it’s me I (as in you) care but if it’s not me, I don’t care.
Alrighty then… good chat
No bc she’s dating a billionaire who’s a narc and she is probably one herself
Again she is human, you seem to have affection for HG and you know what he is capable of, why not her?
You reasoning makes no sense
No I don’t care about how a narc “feels”.
I have affection for HG but I don’t care about how he feels other than I respect the shit out of him ,I defer to his super high intelligence, I admire many of his qualities & I behave bc I don’t want to get kicked off the blog.
Bezo’s gf I said probably wouldn’t care what Lorelei says about her and I stand by that LOL
If you respect someone, you have feelings they are not detached.
Ok well MY EXPERIENCE is (and I’m sorry HG pls don’t boot me) that HG could be skinner alive and I wouldn’t care one bit other than his awesome mind would not longer be available to us, and that the works at large would have lost a fantastic source of information.
I respect him bc of his mind, his good works and his humour. I find him very helpful and I quite enjoy his existence.
But I don’t have any attachment to him , or to my ex narcs, or to anyone I find out is a narc. I don’t have compassion for them outside of a general , foggy altruistic sense that I wish them no harm.
This is bc I understand what they are, and that they have no attachment to humankind outside of their own needs. I see them as fascinating robots , for the most part , and HG I see as a force of “evil” (extreme separation from The One) that will not benefit (other than selfishly) from my emotional attachment- so I don’t feel it.
If your experience is different that is valid- but you cannot nullify mine because I’m having it , I know this, you do not.
I never said I didn’t validate, your opinion, but dont overlook someone’s behavior cos “You like them”
That’s how get manipulated.
Word salad.
How is that word salad it makes sense
This is word salad
“ I never said I didn’t validate, your opinion, but dont overlook someone’s behavior cos “You like them”
That’s how get manipulated.”
Bingo!
I don’t even think in those “I like him/her” terms anymore, especially at work.
I’d rather work with an asshole that gets the job done than with a sweetie who flatters me all day and never sits down at his or her desk.
Is that the real issue? Not concern over any new subs here, no real issue with the banter
Lorelei insulted your hero’s gf so she’s a narc and if we disagree we are all fair game?
Actually I despise amazon but going after someone’s looks… and saying what she said wasn’t cool.
Treat people with the respect you want in return or don’t expect kindness just cos you are you.
How about putting yourself in that lady’s shoes. And understanding why she may date someone like him???
Wow using logic??
Yikes!
I understand that joking in the comments section can be very useful, if not necessary.
But I hardly view this section as a “playground.” This is the first time I have seen anyone label it as such.
I’ve read—and engaged in—plenty of serious, non-banter conversation that has helped others and me understand narcissistic abuse via HG’s material. I’ve also witnessed people crossing their respective emotional seas here.
To me, the comments section is a processing ground.
Surely, humor plays a part, but I have not found it to be the focus or purpose of the place.
The semantics interpreted weren’t as intended to be not serious, can be damaging to view as “fun” when playground is used—sorry Lisk. Processing ground is a better phrase.
Julie I think you’re unknowingly jealous of Lorelei and it’s manifesting as a tirade against her. I’m just being honest.
That’s your emotional thinking, but no
I’m actually not jealous of any female
Everyone has their path in life, and as you can see my self worth is just fine. I don’t require the attention
I’m a quiet achiever. But thanks for assuming that females must be jealous of one another. Again I am not
A quiet achiever. 😆 priceless
One day I hope to have my life together like Julie, have a business, assets, male friends who behave differently in private or when no women are around.
Then I can come back on narcsite born again, and criticise people who have anxiety after experiencing narcissistic abuse and don’t want to reveal their identity to a narcissist by patronisingly telling them to stop being victims.
I find myself manipulating more and more though? Only to Ns and only if they are trying to ‘get one over on me or someone close to me. Iit’s largely in self-defense, although not always. Never particularly harmful just to counter whatever it is they’re trying to do to me. My brain would never have been able to work this way before Are you sure it’s not possible to turn into an N?
I am not sure. I am certain.
Phew! Thanks – I’ll carry on as I am then
Please do!
“If someone said you need to be more humble I would think about it seriously and see how my behavior impacts others.”
Julie, you need to be more humble.
As I said I’m to busy living my best life which includes what I am grateful for thank you.
My behaviour has impacted people, period.
Life isn’t hearts and aww babes
I have said nothing that isn’t logical and just because it’s not fluffy doesn’t mean it isn’t real and worth sharing.
Haha nice one Violetta
And there we have it, a Super Empath. Next up, a long-winded, heroic epos about “The Greater who kneeled”.
Lorelei:
Just don’t head to the stables. I think you’ve used up your weekly capacity to tolerate horse manure.
NarcAngel:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DPsyxBblwes
V
Haha. Very camp.
Well. I’ve had about 40 years of narc abuse. I took seven months out.
Lorelei:
The final call is HG’s, but if you were really a narcissist, would the suggestion that you might be a narcissist upset you and make you doubt yourself, or would you be pouring scorn on everyone who dared to question your empath cred?
Having a few narcy qualities isn’t remotely like being a full narc. Everyone I know in the performing arts has some, or why would we expect people to buy tickets to see us show off? But few of the ones I know are full-on narcs, and the ones who are have a hollowness in their performances. The best performers have a missing layer of emotional skin, and no narc can or would do that.
Violetta—I just saw your question. Asking if it’s upsetting to be called a narcissist. Not really in the way you may think. First, if I were it would be the result of a LOCE environment, which I had a horrible situation with a neighbors son as a pre-school child. I could have developed narcissism but the genetics as HG has explained weren’t likely prominent. It’s not the fault of the narcissist that they develop in such a way. I view my ex husband as genuinely mentally handicapped at this point. He is designed not to know what he is. It’s actually so sad—that all these kids lose out in the end from our perspective. On the other hand, I envy the callous nature at times. The ability to railroad people with no thought aside from doing it while maintaining a facade.. (for instance)
So it’s not upsetting how you think. I was very confused about the empath thing until more recently. I get it means a collection of traits now—a more expansive palate of emotion. It’s simple really, but the school/cadre thing trips me up. I just recall HG’s audio suggesting I don’t require a lot of support so it appeals to the mid ranger. This is spot on. I think greater or self aware narcissists prefer a different empath altogether which is sensible as would match in a more cohesive way for their needs.
It’s interesting is all. I have very strong narcissistic traits and some traits I have nearly none of. I’m vacant mostly of jealousy for instance. I rarely feel it. Narcissists feel it abundantly. I am quite vain and I’m aware of this. Each of us are unique certainly.
It’s interesting isn’t it? In the AA program , which I am working (the steps) pretty much for the rest of my life (as a personal awareness development tool). I am able to see I drift into superiority ,( and I guess that’s why it annoys me and others, because you know -what you see other people, is a reflection of how you see yourself and all that)
I also see I can get prideful , which is ultimately very painful, and I can go into victim mentality – although I find that a lot easier to catch now thanks to interaction on this blog.
I also am often totally unaware of ppl that don’t like me- I just assume everyone gets me and so if they get me- what’s not to line? Lol- which I guess is egocentric – but also it’s very comfortable , bc I’m not weighed down by being afraid to exist – but I’m so ignorant about my own arrogance that I don’t catch it a lot of the time. Being confident and being arrogant can be a fine line for me. (I’m a Leo if that applies lol)
I suppose I can be entitled also- another one I’m super I aware of. The defects or narc traits come up Kinda one at a time into awareness and I’m like “damn! This Woke character is this or that! I never noticed!” But it’s all good as far as – we’d all be so boring without our unique little traits .
It’s horrifically humbling when I realize I’ve blasted someone for being a certain way and then realize I’m the same way.
I relate to all.. I am generally well aware of when I’m an ass because there is a hesitation before I proceed and I chose to run with it or not. I drank mostly wine prolifically when with my ex because my existence was so awful. I rarely drink now but have a day next month where festivities will be lively. And of course my vacation was riddled with booze but we were all a mess. One guy was swigging tequila in Tiananmen Square in our group. Ridiculous. I kept thinking it was not a good idea!! We had a blast—a very eclectic mix of people. I’m not an alcoholic but I have mingled heavily on the fence in certain scenarios.
NarcAngel:
I just thought that scene might be how we looked from an outsider’s perspective.
Well, minus the negligees over obvious bra straps.
Lorelei
You strike me as more of a Labradoodle
It’s code 5 on page c of subheading 5003. Read it.
This thread has me laughing so hard
Omg “Lorelei is causing an unnecessary problem” LMFAO
-all the little horny empaths aren’t having it 😂
HG is wishing I’d stayed on FB support forums!
No he is not! Neither do I! 😘💞
WAF,
We will give up a lot of stuff for HG to gain peace of mind ,and freedom, but we aren’t giving up sex! At least not for 24 months! Lol
Lol!! That’s what I thought at first too. In fact I was much easier able to quit drinking than sex LOL
but nowadays – well- I like to KNOW THINGS
and now I KNOW THINGS about life I didn’t before
So as sex crazed as I used to be , if HG told us to quit sex for two years I’d do it at this point, just to know what he knows 😈
I agree with you WAF! I’m to the point now that all of the other stuff doesn’t matter. I just want to soak up all the information I can from HG! 🙃
Hahaha! You are so bad!! Soon you will be sent to the dungeon with NA and myself!
I just got impaled by the spine of a sardine!
Ewww! It’s 4:30 in the morning, why are you eating sardines?! I’m definitely not going anywhere with you! My God that’s just nasty! Hahaha
FM1T:
“We will give up a lot of stuff for HG to gain peace of mind ,and freedom, but we aren’t giving up sex!”
You need to read (or see) Lysistrata. The women of Greece refuse to give their men any LURVE until they stop the Peloponnesian War. They barricade themselves in the Acropolis, but pretty soon some of the women are trying to sneak out with various excuses. One says, “I need to sort my wool for spinning. I’ll just spread it on the bed–”
Lysistrata: “There will be no ‘spreading.'”
Violetta,
I am most certainly going to look this up. Thank you! 😉
Lorelei,
I found your comments amusing and joined in for some light relief from a serious matter that can seem overwhelming, especially in the early days. Having said that, I was ensnared and addicted to a Narc so perhaps that’s why I thought it was funny?
💕💕
Excuse me????? Did I read that we are wrong for wanting to remain anonymous? Are we supposed to show our filtered face now to prove we are not narcs? It’s not a matter of who cares who we are, Julie. It’s a matter of what we want to do. And I do whatever the fuck I want.
Nobody is stating that people have to demonstrate they are not narcissists.
Clearly we do have to state it HG.
No, they do not have to and I’m the law, Lorelei.
1. I haven’t been posting that long. Was I intimidated by posts with humor? Not a bit, because that’s how soldiers in foxholes, students in exam week, or actors in tech week deal with the stress.
2. Was I intimidated by supposed cliques? I didn’t feel unwelcome. Maybe a bit awkward because a lot of people knew each other’s backstories, but that’s the case when you meet any group.
3. There are some posts I skip, because they deal with things like custody battles that I’m not dealing with. (Eventually, I intend to go back and read the entire blog, but for now, I’m focusing on things that relate to situations I’ve encountered at work or in personal relationships. I’m trying to meet deadlines at my job-from-Purgatory while searching for another.)
4. There are other posts, particularly those with many comments, where I will use the “Find in Page” function to see HG’s comments and exchanges with other people, rather than scrolling through every sub-thread. (Yes, HG, I’m web-stalking you. Hope you don’t mind. I’m guessing you’re used to it.)
5. In terms of putting people in the DSM, we can speculate as much as we want about public figures or each other, but a personal consult with HG is the final call, or why would we be on this site?
Violetta—it takes me awhile to know people as it is.
Omg your gravatar I’m dying LMFAOOO
Are you a magnet btw? You must be .
I’m a smart ass is what I am:)
You know it’s not 24 months! Such drama, and you wonder who your daughter gets it from?! Hahaha
36 months for me.
Oh yeah right! You lie!! Lol
Lorelei
So…are you scouring the internet for a fashionable chastity belt?
I served my time. The belt is off!
Lorelei
Good for you, go wild. Although I’m certain there would have been some beautiful vintage models to be found on Etsy.
💕💕— I’m never talking about Etsy again. I’m in the dungeon with narcissism books. I have a flashlight and extra batteries.
Lorelei
That sounds like a very good idea. Let me know if I can do something good for you. I can order you some homemade, hand-poured, organic, vegetarian, non-GMO beeswax candles with lavender essential oils, should you run out of batteries.
Desirée—I fail to see the depths of narcissistic despair in lavender essential oils. I’ve been crying all day trying to reconcile my soul’s fleeting capacity to ever live in prosperity again. I need you back to the drawing board on this matter!
Lorelei
You’re right, it might be rancid anyway…let me give you some sheep fur to keep you warm in that dungeon down there, a bottle of burgundy or three and leave you to your studies.
Lorelei:
As long as you’re in a dungeon, how about some Amontillado?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OSl41mW0NK4
Ugh. Violetta, do you like dry sherry? I have tried many times to get used to it and I just can’t. Wait, can I talk about this or do I need permission from Julie?
Violetta—please stay on topic. Cry. You need to be crying. Sobbing.
Lorelei:
I believe HG just allowed us all to have an object lesson here.
Let’s see: you’re upset, people are confused and asking for clarification, Tudoristas who were having reasonably friendly debates are defensive, people who’ve been posting for a while are suddenly in doubt about whether their content will meet with approval–
Wait, WHOSE approval?
Remember how all this started?
End result: In addition to varying levels of distress, we seem to be paying an awful lot of attention to someone who isn’t HG.
Well, waddya know….
It’s been 12 months, where does it say 24? At what point do I get to have a life? I am not raw, I have been a hermit, did tons of work including PTSD therapy(still see her every week) following HG’s no contact stuff, career change (insurance exam next week), move, running again after giving it up when I was with him, archery again, new and healthy friends. Not looking for love of my life. But also can’t be celibate forever. It’s a particular thing. No I am not a prostitute or looking for married guy lol. How does anyone stay celibate for 24 months?! Are you kidding/! I think that would just make me so crazed at the end of 24 months I would latch on to whoever walked by. I am not frayed. I lost the last 6 years of my life to a sociopath who did unspeakable things to others that were worse than I experienced; I just didn’t find out about the depth of that insanity until later. I am safe. I think he has taken enough of my energy and time and I would like to give some of that to forward momentum. That being said, so far I have rejected 7 people including the one I just cancelled out on and removed myself from that site. The other one is not particularly a dating site and I know people in real life on it. I am sorry HG there is no way I can possible make it 24 months. I would rather invest in a date detector for everyone before I sleep with them.
It does not say 24 months, Lorelei is causing an unnecessary problem.
Settle down dear Cyn—it’s not real. You are not a prostitute—all I’m saying is that your recent discoveries (all of this we learn here) are quite fresh.
This has made me laugh Cyn, thank you, I’m grateful. My beautiful sister was called Cyn and whilst I know that’s probably not your name, I imagined her writing your ‘outrage’ at the idea of 24 months with no sex and despite soaring ET, did not break NC even though my ‘hoover triggers’ were deafening. Best wishes x
I missed you!!!
Hi Cyn! How is month 14 going for you so far?! 💕💕
Happy Belated Birthday!!!!! Your vagina will not fall out but will atrophy without use. OR get cobwebs. Don’t let that happen. It will be 12 months in December. I am glad I am an alpha female but that female energy needs to be balanced out at some point. I say that, then I reject males. This month I am doing everything I can to avoid studying for an exam because I am terrified of failing. But I have never failed. In fact I have always been 4.0. Life is good but not perfect, but it’s perfect enough. I don’t have anyone abusing me for the first time in many years. I got triggered by some hoovers that slipped through (fake profiles, emails from his company in my spam). But I just block. It’s a physiological response. I remind myself I am safe. It’s fire season here and we were evacuated a couple weeks ago but my house didn’t burn. I spent the week in a decent hotel in SF so it was a nice break. IT’S FALL! My favorite! How are you miss Lorelei?
I know you are in the midst of fires. I’m a huge fan of the Pacific highway and need to make it out there. When I was younger I used to fly to Tahoe alone (3 times) —then take a rental car just go—San Francisco a favorite too. Eureka..
Exam? For?
Lorelei,
Don’t stress about this Julie.
If she had a problem with some of your comments she could have mentioned it at the time and tried to have a open conversation before coming at you sideways and attempting to “expose” you as a “dangerous” “narcissist” out of the blue.
she’s also assuming that we all hate our lives and haven’t achieved anything!
I’ve made a lot embarrassing comments on here! 🤣 I’m surprised she said you are a narcissist and not me!
I’m more irritated with HG for stating she had credibility by implying she was a regular reader. Truly. If HG had an issue he could have told me because he’s well aware of my email address. That’s all. I see loads of comments here that are way off topic that go way back and daily and often and off the charts. I also would like to know where this woman found material that I gaslight my kids. I have a notion where it came from because it would be a great button to push. I have worked my rear end to turn their lives around so what a nice thing to make sure as communicated. My middle schooler was in horrible shape in the spring. No longer. The other kids are thriving. I’m regarded as clinically superb in my work so I’m not a dipshit in all arenas. The narcissist thing is a big mess yes. And Jeff Bezos girlfriend is a joke because his ex wife is a class act and I stand by this.
Wrong. Think about it. I’m not spoon feeding.
You aren’t spoon feeding me further on here either. I’m not asking you any questions unless it’s truly narcissism related. You could have said it was on your nerves.
I explained I pruned topics. I said nothing about ‘getting on nerves’, that’s your wording.. Also, you’ve no idea the extent to which I prune other discussions because I do the moderation, not you. You don’t see what’s removed.
And spoon feeding who? The comment makes zero sense.
Lorelei
I did not read HG’s clarification of Julie not being a noob but a regular reader here as lending her any credibility. Simply a clarification that she did not suddenly arrive here new and unaware of the dynamics. She has bristled at things where I was involved as well previously. So what? I’m still here and remain unaffected by her opinion. You should too.
If HG said to me that he would not spoon feed me, I would take it to mean that he thinks me intelligent enough to read back through the comments with lowered ET and clarity to arrive at what was actually conveyed and meant rather than what we “felt” amongst all of the noise.
And there was a LOT of noise.
Correct.
Julie not being a noob just makes her behaviour so much more bizarre.
It means she comes on here and analyses everyone’s comments without contributing, just to pop up randomly and tell us our lives are shit, apparently we have no friends, we don’t have a job, we have never had healthy relationships etc and we are all dwelling in victimhood and her life is so amazing and we need to model after her. Some people are honest and some people hide behind pretence, that’s all I’m saying.
Oh and she worked in security for 16 years and she’s tough as nails. Like an Israeli soldier. She was called to defend Israel I think. She is really strong like Angelina in the fighter girl movie and hires and fires with the venom of a snake. It’s a tough job, someone has to do it though. She would not have the chance to get through the panel interviews I’ve been through to make the cut for hiring and firing the caliber of professionals I’ve worked with. Now that is as catty as I’ll get on the matter—but I did notice the poor diction, thrust of gusto bravado speak, and I doubt she knows who Margaret Atwood or who Ray Bradbury are. Dystopian style literature is likely not a quick recall for her. Bitch. Off to get my hair ironed and my eyebrows pruned to their glory.
“I’m more irritated with HG for stating she had credibility by implying she was a regular reader.”
He didn’t state she had credibility. He stated she was a regular reader.
He didn’t imply that gave her credibility. You inferred that. So did I…at first.
HG is fine—once I get my hair done I’ll be less cranky. I’m just exhausted and I do think he’s an ass but whatever.
Me too – at first. Then I reread what he wrote.
BUUUUUT HG is always sixty steps ahead and I trust him to steer the boat to our greatest learning benefit.
HG isn’t always 60 steps ahead. I know I’d nail him in a chess game.
Lorelei, HG did not give her credibility. All he said is that she was a long time reader. I misinterpreted what noob meant but I think everyone else knew. You have to admit he was fair and didn’t let things get out of hand. Just think, if this happened outside of here you wouldn’t have HG to intervene. I think you handled yourself well. I can’t imagine it was easy for you to read.
Well it’s his blog—I’m onto this and it’s ok. I knew the majority of her thoughts were ill founded Mercy—but the take away is this. When one (me) dazzles a bit inappropriately it’s a prime target opportunity for opinions whether they come from someone well intentioned or someone that is just a bitch or even a narcissist.. Not hard to read in that I know what my disposition is but a headache to co-mingle with many other current stressors. It’s like this—my hair—it’s marvelous today (actually not yet because I just woke up) and pretend I know it. But someone comes along and picks it apart. You know they aren’t making sense entirely but each person has a perspective and are allowed to exercise thoughts. Do I think HG could have indicated he doesn’t agree with the dangerous narcissist insinuation? Yes. It’s not a requirement to breach confidentiality due to prolonged time here—not just the empath detector determines our disposition. Truly anyway—an empath detector only exists in this little haven! Also, if I’m a narcissist am I not allowed here to learn? Is being a narcissist the worst thing? I think HG is quite pleased with his life. We find them deplorable due to their abuse but are they allowed in McDonalds? Yes of course. So what if they end up here, they don’t know what they are and are entitled to seek answers in their own lives in however it resonates within their more limited capacity.
Even my own father did wonderful things for people, he gave to charity and was kind to many people. He was a brilliant intellectual. The notion of narcissists as absolutely disgusting 100% of the time is our own black/white response to traumas. It’s the co-existence when necessary (and it is to some degree in life) that I find most helpful to think about. It’s absolutely essential that in my work I have face to face with many narcissists. How can I make that happen and have zero impact? It’s not being discussed in narcissist 101 on Facebook.
I hella love me a narcissist I tell u whut
Plus even though I’ll work towards it- I suspect a world without them would become so boring eventually. What I’d like to see is a world where they exist but everyone knows what they are. Now that sounds interesting to me
Agree—like a scarlet letter but not really. I do know the more I stick around the more I see. Interestingly, this subject has intrigued and flexed my mind more than complex mathematics. Truly. I especially recall having to do painful statistics by hand on pencil and paper. For some reason this horrible woman wanted it done in this manner despite everyone using software.. Anyway, it’s so aggravating to fuck up a whole page over one oversight—the attention to detail and such.. I only recall this so well because I had to take it for my MS and I had been out of school a million years. “This” has required more attention by far and has been more aggravating.. The rewards are steep. I don’t like don’t half measures. The behavioral emphasis for an upcoming project in my work will have a sparkle it would not have had—and if I pursue my PhD, it too, will be different as my interest is behavioral management in medicine. You’d be surprised how many of the staff ask for tools—they simply feel stuck managing these baffling behaviors. I have a different lexicon in my mind from being here than I did not have before! I can’t point to clients and say—“There is a lesser victim!!” Regardless, my own work will be better for it.
Wanna get real freaked out?
Think about how long she’s been silently watching your comments here and seething lmao
WokeAF, THAT creeped me out. She had a detailed list of everything we commented and she hasn’t spoken until now! It’s like having a creepy guy living in your basement for years without knowing it!
Actually I only read HGs comments and when he kept correcting Lorelei it was interesting her constant need to keep going. Incorrect Lorelei, I didn’t say that, your wrong lol.
I don’t know any woman who would allow some one to keep telling them they’re wrong that much.
I’m not spoon feeding you Lorelei, yes dad lol
I could use a creepy guy in the basement because I need my sump pump swapped out. Can I YouTube this? I hate getting dirty and the water in the hole seems yucky.
Lorelei, we have all been triangulated. Or quadrangulated here. Or …pick your polygon. And not by HG, though this is, after all, his turf.
Consider this a practice drill. If someone we don’t know and will probably never (thank God) meet can get a rise out of us, think what we face when we deal with people we think we love(d) and used to think loved us.
I don’t honestly know if I could do it if I were the one attacked by someone who reminds me of every Hall Monitor I hated in school (I couldn’t even resist putting in my two cents this time), but the proper procedure when we get a specimen like that might be to let the crickets chirp. Continue asking HG questions, respond to the Tudorista who made an interesting comment about the Royal Family, send good wishes to whoever’s dealing with a nasty custody battle or a recent Hoover attempt, make the real newbies feel welcome–but do not respond to the provocation. (Again, I’m not sure if I could follow through myself even if someone else is the target, because I don’t want people I’ve come to appreciate to think I don’t have their backs.)
I think some long time readers took this policy, but they didn’t really go away or not care, though that’s how it seemed. They just knew not to engage.
Well she called someone an empath , a narc and I think there’s merit in following that up ….
.For One thing it’s fantastic practice at yanking the worm out of the earth once it’s popped his head out.
Secondly, engaging with them really is a great opportunity to firsthand be able to catch and label the manipulations live.
I’m kind of glad the OG’s kept quiet mostly this time to give the Young’uns a chance to hone skills.
But again right now for me it’s satisfying, like popping a big zit.
Couple more years and 30 narcissists later I’ll probably be content to sit back and chill on it
Hi Violetta—I’m good. I may not be by 8pm EST! I’m weighing my food and doing macros down to a science for the next five weeks. I’ll be so mean. I’m also killing myself at the gym in prep for a party. I hate counting peanuts and weighing chicken.
I don’t mind asking questions if they are related to narcissism or helping a new person—I have some evidence in my own life that it’s possible to go (quasi in my case) no contact. This is a really baffling thing to grasp at first if kids are involved. HG can say it 100x but it means something a little more authentic if someone with kids can say, OH YES it can and is being done.
I’m not to bothered to let a cricket chirp, but it’s really my fault for being too chirpy on here. There is no how to wake up from being buried manual so I have completely fucked it up but whatever.
Lorelei:
Do keep in mind that all this just happened to happen on your birthday, also your daughter’s birthday, if I recall.
Shame on the both of you for expecting a day to be about YOU.
Connecting the dots yet?
Awe HG has a penchant for birthdays doesn’t he? He just loves them so! To be honest my bday isn’t a huge situation because it revolves around my young diva. I won’t reveal my truly special day. It’s in July though. Currently my tresses are being tended to.
And yes—the dots were connected but more than you think. The dots drove a bit deeper than they seem. But I’ll never say where they were connected.
Her birthday is in July??? How interesting
Do people feel silly saying happy birthday??
Julie what say you leave Lorelei and the others alone now, no need to bully, you’re above that.
Tell me about your cadre of empath. You said you’re an “ Intuitive“ empath. This sure sounds like me. Can you further explain ?
I’m interested also in your clients, are you able to recognize them as empaths, and if they suffer narc abuse but can’t get out of the relationship because he’s violent, do you explain it’s partially their own fault -as you mentioned earlier ? Do you ever send them to HG for help?
Thanks
Everyone here is on a journey. To explain intuitive empath, i have explained this to HG in detail before, so I think Its ok, talk outside his terms.
It’s a person who has capacity for sensing what others feel without needing to be told. Sharp sense for whether some one is lying or not. It’s also having the ability to step back and view things from a broader perspective, so I can identify links, cause and effect.
For example I can sense tension in an empty room, and realise the meeting before was tense. If I watch a news clip from Syria and hearing screaming, I can feel their terror, these aren’t my emotions as I live safely in Australia and I was happy the minute before.
I can sense when HG is low on fuel, when he is high on fuel. Not all the time though. That’s another reason why I read his comments, to test it.
Big thing is lying, hate it, its an innate drive to seek truth relentlessly. Which can leave me open to gaslighting, but if the Intuition is strong and there is sufficient evidence, then I pursue it.
Sphere of influence is a big thing, can usually detect it.
I need alone time, away from humans. Why I hate people constant drama, constant noise and people’s emotions.
Yes I have empath friends and we discuss our traits, yes I’m a magnet. For narcissists and also people like to tell me their problems.
I don’t tell people I’m Intuitive. There is a good female very well known that is a leader in this field, I cannot promote her here. If you Google it her name shows.
I’m not a relationship life coach, I’m a life goal and career focussed coach. Not sure if I answered it all.
That was very descriptive, thank you.
I’m at a loss right now – – I think I’ll ponder this and get back to you if that’s cool.
Ok got one
Would you ever consider doing an empath detector with HG – to find out which cadre he thinks you are? I’d sure be interested to know his take, as I’m studying the cadres .
Sure, happy too.
Ok , well thank you for answering my questions. If you do get an empath detector by HG and are cleared as an empath, Defin post it here as you will get a very sincere apology from me for stating my view of you as a narcissist in response to all this that ironically was from you calling another empath here a narcissist.
I also might just keel over dead from shock, humility & the hilarity at the irony of life.
Peace
Woke, I don’t require an apology.
Why do you feel bad? You stood your ground, asked logical questions, poked and prodded.
Whether I get labeled a narcissist by people, doesn’t concern me, I know who I am and what I stand for. People’s opinions of me are none of my concern, I cannot control that, some people hate me some people love me. What I can control is me. And me is pretty ok.
If you got the empath detector and were cleared as an empath;
A) I would want to know the cadre and school for my personal mental rolodex of narc/empath info
B ) want to apologize for voicing my suspicions you’re a narcissist based on your behaviour – and want to reconcile in my head where I made my mistake so as not to do that in the future
C)I would be confused as to how an empath could communicate in the way you have here on this thread and NOT 1) apologize to Lorelei for naming her incorrectly as a narc 2) understand how it could be harmful in general to have done so 3) softened back and seen Lorelei for what she is
I wouldn’t feel bad, I’d feel “learnt” (to quote on if the Trailer Park Boys)
However as things stand , I quite enjoyed the entire unfolding.
Let’s re-work these demands shall we.
Firstly- you didn’t acknowledge the fact that I don’t want an apology.
Second- if and when I disclose that information it will be on my terms as it’s my confidential information.
Thirdly- I have caught Lorelei in 3 lies so far and she ain’t getting anything, I don’t like liars and she pretended it was her birthday to garner sympathy and manipulate people into thinking it was her real birthday. Not to mention her bullshit fabricated stories and her amnesia to what type of empath she is.
4) since when do empaths try to control? People are trying to crack me apparently that’s another word for control.
Do not take my yes, to then deliver a list of demands.
Or else the answer is no, and I will gladly take the narcissist title and fly on Taylor’s swifts private jet to Rhode island.
Guess I’m not the only one packing this week
Sorry I own my home, I don’t get that reference.
Not HG, Lorelei. All he did was remind you not to scare off newbies who might not realize you were joking about giving up SexyTime for extended periods. He did not publicly diagnose you, nor did he try to turn anyone against you.
I disagree but it’s ok because I’ve been dipped and in axed this morning.
*dipped and waxed
Lorelei:
You have been Glinda’d.
Not by HG.
See lyrics to “Popular,” which I posted on Empath Detector, or just watch the vid on YouTube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R4rpG-dipYA
I just love this new hair. For one hour I’ll post my whole head because of my somatic narcissism. It took three hours. This girl is the bomb.
Cute clip! I want to see Wicked again. I do see Les Miserables this week!
Lorelei:
Longer version of Popular- ‘WICKED “Popular” press footage’ – 4:57 on yt
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZpeWC_r0oU
Lorelei:
“Do I think HG could have indicated he doesn’t agree with the dangerous narcissist insinuation? Yes.”
You’d like HG to come to your defense.
I suspect he’d prefer we learn to defend ourselves.
In any case, multiple readers here had your back. So any ploy to have a mob ganging up on you backfired.
Again, NOT HG’s ploy.
HG irked me because he didn’t have to breach confidentiality to say I’m not a narcissist. He told Mercy in the same thread she wasn’t. I don’t mean irked in a bad way—or an intense irk. Just a minor good lord he’s a pain in the ass by omission kinda thing. I’m a pain in the ass so it’s fair. Then again, he may be scared I’ll get him in the night with a water gun.
Can we put an end to all this. Lorelei isn’t a narc – I am.
Alex: My name is also Lorelei: Me too!
No, Alexis, I am!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCmyiljKo0
Can we put an end to all this. Lorelei isn’t a narc – I am.
Prove it by listing your toxic traits!
Ha ha ha…this thread just keeps getting better and better!
I’m headed to the salon—my hair needs ironed. We all knew this Alexis.
Alex2016
Me too. The jig is up. I’m a avocado eating, yoga pant wearing, narc, currently posing as a paragon of virtue on Instagram. On to more important matters: Are you going to attend HG’s yoga classes? I’m afraid to do the downward dog in front of him. I’m also afraid FOR him as I’m lactose intolerant (not to be trusted as per SweetP) and those moves get you all relaxed.
Wait what? What did I say about trust and lactose? I’m trying to finish my lecture because as you all know, my public image is extremely important, I hang out with celebrities and I need to do a good job. Hordes of people are gonna attend my presentation tomorrow as the icon I am. Oh but you common people won’t understand that … lol. Seriously NA, what’s the trust thingy? I don’t recall anything…
SweetP
It was just a joke. I thought it was you who said to HG that you don’t trust anyone that is lactose intolerant. Kick ass with your lecture tomorrow and really enjoy being in the moment.
I don’t remember having said that, but I definitely wouldn’t trust anyone who’s lactose intolerant doing yoga in front of my face after eating a flan. Thank you, NA!! I just want to get it done and focus on tomorrow!
Do you people not know my name? Go home Lorelei, I have narcissist written all over me.
Violetta, You nailed it with that Youtube clip: I am Spartacus, I mean, Lorelei! hahahaha!!!
alexissmith2016
ha ha ha….that was a riot! Thanks for the laugh, you made my night.
@NA
Eating avocado that’s nothing!
I gaslight my friends by telling them I’ll be ready by 7pm but end up 2 hours late
NarcAngel
That was me. HG talked about how he eats cheese but that’s not what makes him a narcissist to illustrate a point. I joked about how relieved I am to read that since I do not trust the lactose intolerant.
To all our beloved but sadly lactose malabsorbing readers, I hope you are not offended. This was not my intent and I can make amends for you at my place if you wish. I make an excellent Swiss Mountain Cheese Fondue.
Desiree
Haha, my apologies for shifting the blame to SweetP. No offence taken and the offer is lovely – I accept. No need to make desert, as after your presentation I would be happy to provide a “Blue Angel” powered Chocolate fondue. That is if you can trust that it’s not what you’re thinking.
For those of you who went to a dark place: It’s powered by Blue Angel vodka and my specialty due to people often telling me to “blow it out your ass”. (Which I think you’ll agree is is a rather dangerous thing to say to me all things considered).
Baked brie en croute, with suitable fruit. Orange slices work well, so can pears. Some people prefer berries.
NarcAngel
That…that sounds fantastic! With a dessert like that, you can join me to the cabin in the mountains for hiking and by “hiking” I mean dipping bread in liquid cheese and drinking lots of burgundy. The actual hiking is mostly just to clear the system for the following evening. Your chocolate fondue fits right in!
Desirée, perfect! Looks like we have our menu set for the Empath Rehab / Retreat facility 😉
Dolores
Haha true. I seem to remember HG stating in an interview that the only truly “perfect” no contact would be to move to a cabin in the mountains with the narcissist not knowing where you went. So it does indeed seem we have found our location. I assume there would be no signal either, makes it even easier to spend the time undisturbed.
If he is from Illinois, maybe this is my narcissistic ex. He was an attorney too, and although we were together 20 years, the love-bombing was the one defined characteristic that never fit our relationship either. If it is him, you are lucky to not be getting involved with him!
No he’s from Louisiana or somewhere where there are good ole boys then he moved here near San Francisco 30 years ago after law school.
Cyn, he sounds like a T alker W ithout A ny
T alent
One of the indicators also was when I was excited about adding distance to my run yesterday and he said how that was wonderful because I would “look even better for me” blah blah blah. I said to him “That is what a narcissist would say. Guess what? It’s not at all about you.” When I got off the phone I wrote down all the other red flags and that was it. Date is cancelled.
After 24 months of studying HG’s work you will have the clarity, self worth and radar to stop all contact with anyone who raises even ONE of those red flags you listed.
I speak from experience.
^*also: he’s a narc.
Did today. Incoming new Narc. I sent him on his way
Atta girl 👏🏻
Cyn,
You are seeing all those red flags so clearly. It does help to put their behaviours and also your feelings down on paper, just as you have done.
He tested your boundaries and you gave him too much fuel and resources. Because of this, he must be considering making you an IP. When they are getting old and have some health conditions, they want an IP to give them their all resources, work, run the house and look after them. Entitlement. Not matter how much you do for them, if you become his IP you will be the next he will call a ‘stalker’.
From what you wrote, he seems to be on the Lesser spectrum and not exactly successful if he behaves like a victim. Do you believe him when he tells you he is an attorney? Do you have any evidence?
I would GOSO without letting him know about it.
I just told him our personalities clash and cancelled meeting him. He had company and was going to call me back so I emailed him before he could. I didn’t see the need for further conversation. We only had about 4 telephone conversations in 2 weeks, the rest were emails. I had also asked him some ‘feeling’ questions about a supernatural experience he and his wife had. He couldn’t tell me his feelings, whether he was startled, anxious, creeped out, he said he didn’t feel anything but did note that his wife’s reaction was obviously genuine, her experience was valid to her and she wasn’t one prone to hysterics or making things up. Another box checked. I do think he is an attorney, we discussed some case law and I would have been near his office and seen his home office and files and he consulted with me about a few things. I don’t even care. He was blank on the inside. Nothing there. He has money, well spoken, well versed on many topics and educated; mentioned how relieved he was that I was because so difficult to find women with brains. I also remember him saying how difficult it is to find and keep a good legal assistant. I am just glad I dodged a bullet. I am glad I didn’t like him enough to get hooked. Maybe I won’t like anyone enough to get hooked. Maybe that’s the gift in all this. I was polite and too the point and told him to open his social calendar. I didn’t invite any explanations. We didn’t connect so I don’t think he has need to pursue me any further. He responded with a polite email and kind regards. Now he is blocked.
Ah, the old “difficult to find women with brains” trick! 🚩
I love your self-responsibility, Cyn.
You went with both your instinct and your HG scholarship to assess this situation and made a Final Decision. Delicious!
Yes and now I see HG said 6 months! I should be awarded a damn medal! I gave myself a year! I have regained my virginity. @HG do you give a bulk discount on Date Detectors? I should just get a package in case I need extra help in my further assessments. I told someone else to F off today- wish I could post the one and only conversation with the self professed “Ultra” lol! This is like a new sport. You guys would laugh so hard.
We can discuss.
That’s so funny!
Book me in. Please
Cyn—you ask if HG
Gives discounts on multiple narc detectors. Envision paying him to run a dating app for you and his response to dick pics!! Or someone trying to hook up!
“Bye Felipe” is great for bad hook-up attempts. Also great for making you think it might be better to meet people at art museums or live music, since online seems to bring an overly generous harvest of courgette pics.
Agreed ! 👏🏻👏🏻
there is a teacher who spend 20 years repeating the same exercise evry year about numerical sequences, and he always gives the same correction, where the sequence is convergent, till one year a student did it on board, and he demonstrated verry well how it is divergente, instead of understanding that he was wrong, the teacher said “how weird, last year it was convergent”.
don’t search it has nothing to do with the article, it made my laugh all day so i decided to broadcast it.
no need to tell, i will go out.
This 3rd ‘stranger’ setting more accurately describes the situation that I escaped. It is also why I thought I had only had Narc-Lite. He could be sanctimonious, condescending or silent but never lashed out at me in the way you describe in other articles. I thought maybe it was because I was IPSS that I had not been subjected to the truly darc side of devaluation but I’ve listened to other articles which seemed to suggest that devaluation of IPSS ‘s tends to be short lived prior to disengagement, whereas this went on for 12 months on and off with respite when he was affectionate again for a week or so. Maybe he was a MMR who did not have IPPS but various IPSS’s?
By short-lived NM, it means a Corrective Devaluation rather than a Sustained Devaluation (which the IPPS gets). You can have a lot of CDs, though, on and off, on and off, over a long period of time as a secondary source, which is what you experienced. People also confuse being on the shelf as being devalued, when it is not.
I bet they do.
NA, my Intial reason for commenting was to stop the toxic behavior I was witnessing. I gave my evidence numerous times and I labelled it. No one else. And yet we have replaced toxic behaviour with other toxic behaviors.
The problem with humans is the need to be right and the need for victory instead of peace.
The need to be safe and free from abuse should negate the need to be right.
As you are aware, HG can appear friendly, engaging, polite and courteous, however he engages in chaos, all malignant narcissists, do.
However, he is teaching everyone not, to engage and what do they do, they engage.
You might label me a narcissist but if I know myself and have done the research, I know I am not I don’t speak and behave as one. And whatever someone may label me, as I said previously I know what I am and what I do, the difference is why is someone’s opinion of me is critical to my understanding of myself.
My question is are people wanting to know that they are empaths to understand themselves and stop getting ensared or a they taking them to use that as leverage over others, well HG said I was and so I am, is not the final thing.
My take is to find out what you are, put measures in place to stop you from over giving, set boundaries to stop you getting abused, stop you from losing your identity and self worth.
This behavior has to stop, it damages people and also the brand.
Everyone should be encouraging everyone else to question and engage in robust conversations..
But attacking Lisk for her beliefs and resolve is wrong.
I did find your colossal bore comment interesting, remember it can be taken out of context. I can take it like she thinks I’m a bore or that what HG is doing is a bore.. or that I’m over with this Drama I need a new one.
Julie,
Why are you replying to HG but addressing NA?
Girl, you really are something else!
Probably because this thread is fucking clown shoes.
Bibi…
Damn straight its clown shoes.
And they’re burning in a damn dumpster fire.
Lordy, if this is “empath”, ya’ll call me “normie”, please.
n&s,
My guess is that was a simple mistake, especially likely to occur in a long thread like this, whether being read on a desktop or a phone.
It’s your perception that I am attacking Lisk, and that is interesting because I was only noting the behaviours I saw in her. I did not label her or put out my opinion about her as a warning of danger to others. I actually think she is leaving herself open to danger. You say you were only noting what you observed about Lorelei’s behaviour, but you did in fact label her and put out a warning to others. Can you explain how it is that you consider my observations about Lisk an attack and yours about Lorelei fair and founded? I am interested in how you see that.
You validate her opinions, see the value in the discourse and move on, you don’t engage in whatever that was.
Lorelei was told to abstain..why? Is she an addict.
Sounds like sex addict or sorry no such thing.
You know peolple just dont go asking others to have sex with them to get them out of a fake dungeon lol.
Or is that supposed to be cute?
Sorry just doesn’t add up, I did label her and still stand by it.
Who ordered the word salad?
That’s English. Sorry you can’t understand it
Also, I’m finding it a bore because there is nothing else to be learned on that thread and I like to learn. I don’t require drama. I have a full life just like you.
You don’t bore easily for sure. I am sure you have read every post and comment repeatedly. You search and seek to respond to comments that are in opposition or show
too much admiration towards HG. Take a break and regroup. Geesh, you may be bored, but to newcomers it might be enlightenment.
Choose Life…Real Life..
Hi Yolo
You can always be counted on to show up if there is any conflict, but only if it involves me and you think you have company in your opinion of me. Apparently taking breaks doesn’t help. If it did, you’d be well rested and ready to add some positivity on the blog instead of circling like a shark and occasionally barfing up chum.
Yolo
Did you even bother to read the thread? NarcAngel is defending another blogger who is being bullied by Julie and lisk.
Julie,
I appreciate your views and agree with almost all of them in this thread.
I also appreciate your standing up for me. That is most kind of you.
However, I do not agree that NA’s aggression or attacking me for my beliefs and resolve, or lack thereof, is “wrong,” per se. I do not see it as a moral issue, if that is what you mean. I just see it as a way that she reveals herself, like we all have revealed ourselves here.
As I mentioned in another comment here, I do not take her personally.
Lisk
Please enlighten us as to how Julie is “merely pointing out behaviours that she witnesses” (and I agree with some), but when I point out behaviours that I have witnessed, it is viewed as “aggression and attack”. I would truly like to know how you make the distinction. HG would call it providing the evidence.
That’s the beauty of it, you are an adult who can make those choices and it doesn’t matter if you don’t agree 100% I’m not going to drag you down for it.
No one had to agree with me 100% I’m cool.
They can hate me, yell at me, but you know what I’m ok.
This what happens when you tell people NO. You get backlash….
It’s easy to say yes and people please..
I’m hard to control.
This behavior on this blog has gone on for ages, im not the first or last.
I don’t understand life as a co dependant, but I’m not going to invalidate what you feel and believe.
Julie,
If I may get a couple things straight, since you mentioned “codependent” here.
I suspect I am a codependent for one reason only: that I often do not feel empathy in situations where others do. Maybe that makes me a narc. I do not know.
I do see the attempt of NA to use my self-diagnosis against me and her offering of unsolicited advice. She not only did this with me here in this thread. I have witnessed this type of behavior from her in other threads. Hence why I do not take her personal targeting personally.
I did see you apologize to me for “not being there” for me. While your apology is appreciated, it is unnecessary. Please notice that you bought into NA’s assessment that I (or codependents in general) need someone to hide behind or support me in order for me to speak up. I’m sorry to see that you bought into that word salad though I can understand why it is easy to do so.
Julie,
“Everyone should be encouraging everyone else to question and engage in robust conversations.”
For someone who advocates this you certainly do a fair of evading questions and deflecting accountability.
You couldn’t answer my simple and direct question seeking confirmation on whether you actually believe that Lorelei fabricated her Empath Detector results.
Here are your words:
“I’m saying she faked it. Hence her amnesia and others then sending her links. And then her saying she is all of them.”
Here are Lorelei’s words:
“Standard with no cadre unless a contagion minority is a cadre as he said a “total hybrid”.
Lorelei never said she couldn’t remember her results (implied by your choice of word “amnesia”) she said she hasn’t studied the Empath schools and cadres and can’t keep them straight (many of us have admitted to having gaps in our learning here – I think that demonstrates honesty and some humility.)
And you are using the fact that someone sent links to her and her following statement that she is “all of them” (i.e. the cadres) as evidence of her faking her results.
If you’ve taken the Empath Detector and had results you would know the language she’s using is indicative of the way the results are conveyed by HG. Specifically, in the usage of “minority” and “total hybrid”.
You said because she claims she is all of the cadres, following the sharing of links describing the cadres, is evidence of her faking her results. I happen to know that you can actually get a “hybrid” result – as I have a real-life friend who had a similar designation of Standard Empath, with a “perfect hybrid” of cadres. Nobody knows my identity nor my friend’s identity so I don’t think I am breaking any rules of confidentiality – and I’m sure if I am then HG won’t post this.
I just thought it was important to point out that your argument here (and it’s hardly the only example) lacks logic and robustness.
Don’t need to explain myself 5 times. Cannot make it any clearer for you.
I have said all I needed to say…..
Julie,
I can count. You explained yourself once.
Thanks Whocares. There are multiple instances of history being re-written in Julie’s comments in quoting or paraphrasing me. For
Example—she embellished how I conveyed the empath results and it’s akin to taking a grain of reality and shifting it to her advantage. It is classic smearing that many of us have experienced—a grain of truth to plant doubt so I appreciate your “pick up” on what I actually said. Same with a historical site—she eluded to me denigrating a site where people were killed. I’m sure the comment can be retrieved and it clearly states someone in my group was drinking and I felt it was a bad idea. My group wasn’t chosen by me—it was a small tour group. Many more examples. I’ve never been told to refrain from a sex addiction (as implied) for 24 months. It was a poor joke on my part. She capitalized on it absolutely. I won’t give it ongoing attention by citing the numerous examples any further but her goal is to control the narrative. Make other readers uncomfortable engaging in case I am a narcissist etc. It is a classic smear. I won’t be prescriptive to other readers re, my thought on her intentions beyond this. Diminish credibility, plant seeds of doubt.. I am not a narcissist and even if I were why would it be so eerie? Haven’t we all entangled over and over with them? It’s not like if I’m a mid-range narcissist I’m prone to start being dangerous on the blog. It’s a ridiculous assertion. My silly energy is a manifestation of being smothered for a decade. I would not recommend anyone sink so deep. The first breaths are clumsy and clearly have been misinterpreted as narcissism by a few. For that I apologize and I’ll be more focused. I’ve been mostly quiet and will continue to not overly fuel this fire.
Lorelei,
I’m glad you replied. Yes there are many more examples of her “logic” , if people care to look. I just felt as though this one stood out for me and was a good example for “noobs” and others to see what was being touted as logical thinking.
I apologize for talking about you as if you weren’t here and hope you’re doing okay.
WhoCares
Exactly; it’s called Toxic Logic.
Whocares—I couldn’t reply to you under your last comment to MP. I am so sorry for the situation you have been managing and found your reply and position on matters very thoughtful. I believe we all had reasons to not overly engage in the Ed thread—I just felt it was not my battle. It was never about who I didn’t “side with”’or not—I don’t really prefer conflict to the extent it kept going. It was never about not backing anyone up or agreeing/disagreeing. I appreciate the support you’ve offered here and you carry a very logical perspective. I’m a little disoriented from driving in snowy mountains so I hope I’m articulate enough to make sense. I’m taking a break before I fly off the road!
Lorelei,
Thank-you. It was a situation that I couldn’t avoid as a stepping stone to greater stability. I do recall saying somewhere that my transitions are never graceful – this one was no different. But the worst part is over – I am super happy that I had significant banter to laugh at here in contrast to what I was dealing with personally.
From the beach to the snowy mountains?! You do get around.
We have been enjoying snow here since trick-or-treating in a blizzard on Halloween day. Hope your drive was uneventful – except for beautiful snowy mountains.
Oh my it was 12 hours on the road and I hate driving. We’ve had family issues lending to increased travel. I don’t ever want to go anywhere again! I’m glad the stability factor is increasing for you. I’m collapsing!
Lorelei – Hope your family issues are resolved soon!
Lorelei, you find many things amusing and you obviously can clearly rectify any miss understandings, however you chose to joke, let it sit and see what happens.
I do not appreciate you asking me for sex to get out of a dungeon, you clearly like to stir and see what people do, instead of clarify your behaviour like am.adult Toying and saying things that clearly aren’t true.
Manipulating people is not on, “joking” such things are for children not grown women.
You sucker people in, I see it and you run with it
Your receipts are all there, i have been reading for a while before commenting.
Don’t trust you, dont like you…
Simple as that.
And, yes Lorelei – it’s all about the spin on a tiny grain of truth.
WhoCares,
“It’s all about the spin on a tiny grain of truth.”
I don’t want to insert myself again but NarcAngel did plenty of spins on a tiny grain of truth by screwing up the timeline and implying to Getting There that I was too busy being here at Narcsite defending myself that I’m not a narcissist while I was taking care of my dying mom and that people asked me to focus on caring for my mom instead of being on the blog. I have corrected her that my mom was already dead and she still persisted with her false story to smear me. She didn’t apologize to me. Is NarcAngel a narcissist then? No she isn’t. Can’t you see WhoCares? Julie is under attack by ALL of you and she has seen that your group doesn’t have a moral high ground anyway because of your group’s behaviors towards her and me (in the past and now) and lisk and even Kel and even Claire. She sees the bullying, the name calling, the personal attacks. Why do you think that she has any accountability to you (as a group not you personally) to admit whatever mistake she may have made when you all gloss over the mistakes and ‘horrible’ behaviors within your group? She has had other commenters come out and say that they agree with her analysis or opinion, so are they also attacking Lorelei? No, they have their opinion about her and they are entitled to it. Maybe you should all follow Lorelei’s example and leave Julie be. I don even understand why you are all doing this. For what? To seek the truth? The truth is right in front of you! A reader was reading posts but didn’t want to comment (just like a big whopping majority of HG’s subscribers) and has been noticing red flags on Lorelei through a period who knows how long and felt compelled to voice out her opinion because Lorelei was misleading readers who need help from HG. Lorelei was misleading maybe unintentionally and for humor, but unhelpful and unproductive regardless. So Julie felt that she has had it and she voiced out her opinion. That’s all folks. Now WhoCares and Mercy, if you had the same tenacity to call out other seasoned commenters who are far more abusive than Julie then maybe I wouldn’t be so confused with your tenacity here. But right now I am perplexed by your double standard. Did it escape to you that NA and K were bullying lisk in tandem? Are they allowed to do that because of their tenure here?
MommyPino, I am just now seeing this comment. I didnt want to get in the middle of what happened between you and K because 1. I didn’t witness the previous conflict between you two so it wouldn’t be fair to form an opinion without facts and 2. I felt it was inappropriate to add more conflict on top of the existing clusterfuck of conflict.
But, since you called me out I feel the need to respond. You use the words “your group” and “clique” often. It’s actually quite offensive to be labeled this way just because people have similar opinions or common interests. One could say that you have formed your own clique with lisk, Kel, Claire and Julie. Would that be fair? Shall I start addressing you five as “your group” as if you are not capable of forming an independent opinion?
If I jumped into the middle of one of your conversations unprovoked and said “MommyPino is a dangerous narcissist” would you consider this an opinion or an attack? If the “group” you were having a conversation with defended you, would you think “your group” was attacking me for having an opinion? Would you say that “your group” is bullying me by defending you?
“WhoCares and Mercy, if you had the same tenacity to call out other seasoned commenters who are far more abusive than Julie then maybe I wouldn’t be so confused with your tenacity here.” I do not agree with your opinion that other seasoned commenters are more abusive than Julie. If you were following the comments in order, instead of picking and choosing the comments that support “your group” you would have seen that NA (I assume this is the seasoned commenters you’re referring to) tried on several occasions to speak with an unbiased opinion in order to bring clarity to the subject. She was shot down with accusations from someone in “your group” as acting superior.
It was stated on several occasions by “your group” that standing up and stating your opinion (aggressively) no matter what others think, is something you all can respect. When NA did the same, you failed to recognize that she was illustrating how this type of behavior can come across as bullying. In fact you put an exclamation on her point by calling her a bully instead of respecting that she had an opinion that others don’t agree with.
I do not know what happened with you and K. I will not go looking for the thread to find out what happened. You’ve made several comments that people did not call K out when she displayed similar behavior to Julie. Did it ever occurr to you that people did not speak out because they felt you were wrong, or that they felt both of you were wrong? Did it occur to you that the readers like both of and didn’t want to chose sides, and felt that you both were capable of working it out yourselves?
Mercy,
I think this is one of those things where we just have to agree to disagree. We don’t need to convince each other and I’m totally ok with that. I don’t want to spend any more time on this than I already have. I am also not inclined to explain to you about the ‘me and K thing’ since you have not read it or seen it and are not interested. Like I said to my comment to WokeAF we can all keep our opinions and we can even frame them if we want, it doesn’t really matter. We can read the same things and still see them differently because of our biases and that is totally fine. We can all coexist.
Fair enough MommyPino. I stayed clear of the conversation about what happened between you two since I did not witness it. I just felt I should state my case since you called me out.
I agree to disagree.
Thank you for your understanding Mercy and understand what you are saying. I gave my very best with what time I had last week to defend my case and point of view and I believe you all did the same. That post that you responded to was one of the posts that I wrote during the heated and robust exchanges we had last week and I think took a while to get moderated and I have already moved on when it was moderated. Now I just want to focus on Christmas. I don’t think that any of us enjoy conflict especially a prolonged one. There are better things to focus on.
OMFG Lorelei
It’s not like if I’m a mid-range narcissist I’m prone to start being dangerous on the blog. It’s a ridiculous assertion.
What do mid rangers do, sulk, manipulate, pity play
Do you not understand narcissistic abuse?????
Do you not care about anyone but yourself. This statement is dangerous and a slap in The face to any woman on this blog who has gone through this
Not sure what your silly energy and being suffocated is all about…
Open a fucking window…
Lorelei,
I noticed you were quite and was hoping you didn’t leave us. I don’t think you’ve done anything on this thread that you should apologize for. The 24 month joke was not poor, it was funny and HG cleared up any confusion immediately. We all have experiences that cause us to stop and do some self reflection. Maybe this was one of those experiences for you and you determined you need to be more focused as you said. If that is the case then it shows that you have risen above this petty smear campaign and came out on top. Maybe the seed of doubt was planted in some but your sincere comment is proof of your empathy.
Mercy
I agree; it was just a joke and I thought it was funny. Lorelei didn’t anything wrong so there’s no need to apologize.
Well done.
It dismays me that some ppl cannot see what happened and jump on the pity play bandwagon that she’s being attacked.
It’s a good example of how they work their game on ppl who can’t recognize it.
Kudos for staying mostly quiet – very wise.
Also I love your bubbly, defiant, sexual and playful demeanour. I think you’re wonderful. Let that Queen stay out to claim her rightful place in this world
Lorelei
Why is your gravatar Jane Mansfield now?
Lorelei 💜 you don’t need to apologise for a thing! You did nothing wrong. It was nonsense criticisms and scramble 🤯
Julie, you should plead the fifth.. anything you say will be used against you. HG, is your silent treatment over yet? Lol we need you here, please come back!
Kel:
I think that’s Grace Kelly.
Julie I can’t find it in the thread. Did you mention if you have insecure attachment style or avoidant attachment style?
For a time I thought my ex was avoidant attachment style. I’m wondering if I’m mixing up true avoidant attachment style with narcissism .
Thx
Ok found it
“ The truth is I have an insecure attachment style brought on by childhood trauma, that has allowed me to build a sufficient defence mechanism to withstand any more abuse”
The way you behave is not indicative of insecure attachment style. It IS , somewhat, similar to avoidant attachment style, which, like BPD,I think is actually narcissism in some cases.
Insecure attachment style presents like a needy codependent, not like a haughty narcissist
Sorry
ANXIOUS * attachment style (which is a type of insecure attachment style)
I’d have thought you’d have researched this by now but I could see what might be preventing you from doing so.
If someone told you, that you have an insecure attachment style, that allowed you to develop a “defence mechanism” to protect you from abuse…. I think they were trying to explain to you that you are a narcissist in a way that you would accept
Either that or it’s just some buzzwords that you found online and only half assedly researched , just enough to be able to pull out as a stock excuse when you get called out.
Woke everyone has an attachment style, yes I have spoken to a therapist
I cannot fix it, my mother is still alive and kicking, I need to keep limited contact, she is abusive, controlling.
I am more avoidant, and yes as i described it’s a self defence mechanism to cope. I do not control people,if I did I wouldn’t have found HG in order to understand a 3 year on off relationship of being controlled.
Secure
Fearful
Anxious
Avoidant are the types…bottom 3 happen in childhood trauma.
Why would I not try to understand myself?
I’m happy being alone, I live alone. Prefer alone will be alone.
NPD is very different indeed.
I’m responding to Kel re,
my gravatar—I can’t reply directly to her. Because I watched a movie she was In the other day. Nothing diabolical. She was lovely.
WokeAF, Close your blinds please, the show is over.
Everyone: This place has run amok with rudeness. The mice will play while the cats away- so scat everyone. Put a Hallmark movie on or go outside, clear your minds until you can be civil.
🤚 Don’t even bother to pounce on me- I’m not interested in the childishness and trashy dialect. Any chance of having an intelligent conversation has flown out the window- so there’s no reason to continue on. Both sides of the “debate” are locked in their positions.
Peace, love and empathy everyone. It’s almost Christmas and Santa is watching if we’re good or bad, Lol 😉. ❤️
Thank you Lorelei, I’m always just curious.
This is to MP, kel, lisk and others thank you, I switched off notifications, as of yesterday. But I still see likes.
I’ve met many women like lorelei and others in my time, I see through it, I call it, it’s not being called a narcissist that has bothered me, even in her post she said wouldnt think being a mid ranger in this blog would be dangerous (yep- I’m will overlook this huge mistatement), i knew with my own personality – that’s what people would say, I was more horrified at the level vitriol fired at others who would dare to think independently and question, who would dare to stand up to said people, and say hey this is wrong, I see it and I feel it. That is narcissistic abuse.
You know it… Its there.
But I would rather slay out there, than in Here..
People can hate me, that’s no issue, I take issue with people hurting others and subjecting them to unnecessary questioning and abuse.
I wont stand for it.
I would rather have had him tell me off, then watch people get subjected to such name calling, and unnecessary stress.
It’s called trauma bonding…
So I’m more pissed at him, really. For subjecting people through it. And you know where to find me HG if you have something to say.
MP, no not creepy, thank you for you lovely comments.
And thank you for sharing your story.
Which still fires me up!!!
Take care of yourselves and be good to yourselves. Should you ever be in Australia look me up x
It’s Grace Kelly today..
Kel
I’m not closing my blinds lol (I thought that was a strange expression until I remembered my gravitar lol!!)
But pls feel free to ignore me , I have no beef with you and my involvement was in the interest of expanding my learning .
Kel,
What is “trashy dialect”?
I noticed the Grace Kelly today Lorelei. Rear Window? Dial M For Murder? or To Catch A Thief?
Lorelei,
Julie also said she has developed an insecure attachment style as the result of having a narc mother which apparently is a defence mechanism that granted her some kind of 6th sense which allows her to know when she is being manipulated.
Therefore implying that the majority of the commenters here are trying to manipulate her.
An insecure attachment style is a disordered way of relating based on fear, usually fear of abandonment or fears around intimacy, that primarily effects initimate relationships and close friendships, not strangers on the internet and it also doesn’t give you any special abilities like knowing when you’re being manipulated.
Julie is not sensing manipulation in these comments, she’s sensing criticism which she doesn’t like. No one likes criticism but criticism isn’t necessarily sinister manipulation.
Witch
Correct. Julie is a narcissist so the comments are challenge fuel so she feels a lack of control which results in a manipulative response directed towards the bloggers to draw an emotional response.
You know what, Julie?
Perhaps your commenting has had a positive effect.
In reading and/or participating in recent article comment threads, I have noticed a higher level of dialogue with minimal hijacking by anybody at all, and more participation by people I haven’t noticed before.
Not sure if it’s correlation or causation, but the atmosphere feels different than a long period before you made yourself known.
I agree lisk. The change has been nice. I don’t know how that is going to last though. We’ll see. 😉
Happy Thanksgiving, MP!🤸♀️ I hope yours is most wonderful🥰Not all my comments are going through, like my last reply to your cartwheel comment, but I’ll be catching ya later on the other thread(s)~So happy that you’re back~Love ya❣ I’ll be offline now until next week~blessings to one & all.❤
Happy Thanksgiving to you too Caroline is fine!! A lot of my comments hasn’t gone through either I including a reply to you. I did email HG to not approve some of the comments I made that are in moderation and I got an automated message that he is away or traveling right now. I’m so happy to interact with you again. I saw the movie in Amazon Prime. I will try to watch it this week. Have the loveliest and narc-free Thanksgiving to you! 😘❤️❤️❤️
Caroline is fine, I just wanted to make sure that I really get to greet you Happy Thanksgiving. I hope that you have a wonderful time. 😘🦃❤️ This might be a second message but I just want to make sure that you get my greeting.