Calculation and the Narcissist – Part One
I often read comments along the lines of
“I am ensnared by a narcissist and he knows exactly what he is doing, he is calculating it all and is determined to destroy me.”
I have no doubt that such belief is honestly held, but it is usually incorrectly held.
Why is that?
- It is only Greater Narcissists that are aware and operate in a calculated manner. Greater Narcissists are very rare indeed and therefore as a matter of statistics, if you have been ensnared by a narcissist, it is highly likely to be a Lesser or Mid-Range Narcissist.
- Mid Range Narcissists can appear to operate in a calculated manner owing to higher cognitive function. This is called “Instinctive Planning” which I will explain further in relation to this subject.
- The effect of emotional thinking. Yes, as you know emotional thinking obscures the use of logic and it does this repeatedly and in thousands of different ways. One of those ways is to cause you to think that the narcissist has planned and is operating in a calculated fashion because this will cause you to obsess more over what the narcissist is doing, talk more about what the narcissist is doing, try harder to contact the narcissist in order to halt this supposed calculated campaign against you and of course what are you doing if you do one or more of those things? You are engaging and feeding your inherent addiction to the narcissist. Accordingly, your emotional thinking absolutely wants you doing it and will make you ignore logic and honestly believe the narcissist is acting in a calculated fashion.
- The projection of your world view. Obviously you look at the world from your standpoint and because of this you think that anybody who engages in such behaviours as the ones you are experiencing must have planned them, because if you acted this way, you would know what you are doing and you would have planned them. This entirely understandable viewpoint of yours means that you cannot help but regard the behaviour as pre-meditated and calculated. You, as an empath victim do not manipulate through instinct. You have no need to do so, you are not designed that way and in fact if you ever (in the unusual event) try to manipulate somebody you tend to fail at it because you are just not made to do it and you are not practised at behaving that way. We on the other hand are designed to manipulate and for those who are not as evolved as the Greater Narcissist it is done through instinct. You impose your worldview on our behaviour, that is not high-handed of you at all, but it is incorrect.
Thus, these factors result in you erroneously reaching the conclusion that the narcissist is operating through calculation towards you.
How then do narcissists operate and what is their state of knowledge. Firstly, you ought to read these articles (or revisit them)
Do Narcissists Know What They Are Doing? The Lesser
Do Narcissists Know What They Are Doing? The Mid Ranger
Secondly, let me provide you with an example to increase your understanding.
We must have control at all times over environments and that means the people within those environments and of course that includes you. The Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists do not realise this is what they require, this is known at an unconscious level. The Greater knows that control is needed and also has vastly superior abilities to achieve that.
The narcissist has turned up at the victim´s house to effect a direct physical hoover. The victims does not live any longer with the narcissist and there is an ongoing divorce process between the two.
He knocks at the door but the victim does not answer the door. The victim maintains no contact by not opening the door to tell the narcissist to reason with him to leave her alone. The victim does not shout through the letter box telling the narcissist to “Foxtrot Oscar”, the victim does not gesticulate through the window for the narcissist to go away or open the window and pour water down on the waiting narcissist. No matter how tempting those responses might be, the victim must not execute them because that is engagement which means
- Fuel Provision
- Potential adverse consequence , and
- Heightened Emotional Thinking
aka The Devil’s Pitchfork : The Three Bad Outcomes of Engaging With A Narcissist
Previously the Victim would engage through pleading, shouting and even threatening. All of which is Challenge Fuel and only encouraged the narcissist to keep asserting control and indeed lowered the Hoover Bar to prompt further hoovers.
Accordingly, the victim´s failure to respond amounts to wounding. The victim is the Former IPPS and therefore is at the top of the fuel hierarchy. This failure to respond is “in person” and therefore the result of this is massive wounding for the narcissist.
This massive wounding means that fury is ignited. This is part of there narcissist´s self defence mechanism and occurs because it is a visceral, emotional fury which is necessary to MAKE the narcissist do something to end the wounding, heal the wound and gain control. It has to be explosive to cause an immediate response.
The Lesser Narcissist
The Lesser has a low control threshold on the ignited fury. He operates through instinct only.
His narcissism, were it a voice would be stating :-
“We do not have control. Assert immediate control. Our range of options are limited as this is a Lesser. Utilise Verbal Insult and Property Damage.”
The Lesser does not operate a facade. He has no control. He absolutely needs control and he needs it now.
The narcissist, unaware of what his narcissism is “thinking” responds immediately with Verbal Insult as a form of manipulations, albeit crude and rudimentary.
He shouts
“You had better open this fucking door now, you bitch or I will kick it down and I will come in there and teach you to ignore me. Open this fucking door now!!”
The Victim holds no contact. The wounding is continuing because the narcissist remains at the Victim´s door but he is being ignored. His fuel level is depleting rapidly, he is being wounded and he is not getting fuel.
The narcissist switches instinctively to Property Damage and picks up a large rock from the garden and hurls it through a window smashing it.
The Victim holds no contact but reaches for the phone to call the police.
The narcissist is still being wounded because there has been no response to the smashing of the window. He picks up another rock and hurls another one through the window. The Victim still does not respond.
At this point the narcissism, were it a voice would be stating
“Situation critical. Repeated massive wounding. Target failing to respond. Control not established. Immediate need to end wounding and establish control. Withdraw.”
Throwing a few choice comments the narcissist leaves before the police arrive. His retreat means he halts the wounding because he removes himself from the source of the wounding. He now asserts control through ending the engagement. He will be forced to go and gain fuel so he heads to a different appliance and engages with them to obtain fuel to address the reduction in his fuel level. He does not think
“Damn, I did not gain control there and I was being wounded, so I need to go and gain fuel elsewhere.” (This is what is occurring at an unconscious level)
Instead he consciously thinks “What a cow ignoring me like that.” He heads off to the bar to tell his Coterie about her latest ignorant behaviour and their disapproval of her conduct and approval of his conduct “That showed the bitch you will not be messed with” provide him with fuel to address the wounding suffered and replenish his lowered fuel levels.
Meanwhile the Victim, affected by the four points details above sits awaiting the police and thinks to herself.
“He knew what he was doing. He purposefully came around to intimidate and smash my windows. He always used to smash things up when we were together, he knows exactly how to terrify me and does it on purpose.”
Her Emotional Thinking hijacks her fear and uses it against her.
Her worldview causes her to view the behaviour as deliberate and calculated, but as the worked example above shows, it is not.
She believes this part of an ongoing campaign of harassment which has been deliberately thought out against her – the narcissist keeps calling around because there have been Hoover Triggers and the Hoover Execution Criteria have always been met (primarily because the narcissist does not live far from the Victim, he drives past her house on the way to work and previously she has always given fuel to the narcissist when he comes banging on the door.) This belief causes her to think this is a Greater who is orchestrating a malice campaign against her. It is not, it is actually a series of Malign Follow-Up Hoovers because she is painted black (there is an ongoing divorce process) and there are repeated FUHs for the reasons explained.
Thus the Victim believes that this is calculated behaviour, albeit somewhat crude in its nature and either thinks that this is a Lesser Narcissist who plots and plans or that because he evidently plots and plans this is a Greater Narcissist who is especially unpleasant violent. Her conclusions whilst understandable are incorrect.
He is a Lesser Narcissist. There is an unconscious awareness which is the way the narcissism operates and if it had a voice it would state the points I have explained above. However, it does not and the Lesser Narcissist does not know why he does as he does or he has an alternative explanation for his actions (again obscured by the narcissism and the nature of its self defence) . He does not act in a calculated fashion.
The Victim is misled through a lack of understanding, fear, emotional thinking and worldview into believing this is calculated and pre-meditated behaviour.
The Lesser Narcissist can give the impression of knowing what he is and what he is doing and that it is calculated, but for the reasons explained above, he does not know and it is not calculated.
Next will be the Mid Range Narcissist.
36 thoughts on “Calculation and the Narcissist – Part One”
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I’m new to narcsite and still digesting the idea of the Lesser, Mid Range and Greater. Now, if I understand correctly, the Lesser in the example above knows what he is doing but doesn’t know why, and because he has no conscience, he doesn’t care? He doesn’t even think about why he behaves the way he does?
Welcome SB, hows Patrick, still thick as mince? Yes, you are correct.
The Lesser knows, for example, that he has punched someone. He does not care because he has no emotional empathy and no conscience. He does not know the reason he did it (his control was threatened and he instinctively responded in a rudimentary fashion to assert control once again). If he is asked “why did you punch him” that is a further challenge to the Lesser and might be met with a shrug, “You want some too?!” “He’s a tool.” or “Get in my way and that is what happens.”
zwartbolleke Hope you read this thanks so much for the gift!! 💕
I felt the same Elizabeth, I wasn’t involved with some dumb, instinctive guy. He was really intelligent. He knew right from wrong. He had values and standards. It was impossible that he didn’t know what he was doing. Apart from anything else, I told him often enough. I held the mirror right in front of his nose. Guess what? HE DID NOT KNOW and will NEVER know. I agree it’s hard to get your head around. But once you do, it is kind of freeing. Keep reading and listening here. I’m new to this and there painful lessons to learn. BUT, learn them we must if we wish to be free xx
Awesome response NotMe. Rereading this article and comments. It’s so difficult to think they don’t know and so difficult to keep the idea of a different reality front and center. One of my goals is to know and understand this so well that I am not alarmed by it for myself and can help somebody else.
Life is too short to waste it being diminished by someone dt my own lack of knowledge. Clearly, and thankfully, the tools we need to reach our potential have never been more available.
Aw thank you Susan, I fought as hard as anyone against this realisation. I know with 100 per cent certainty that had I not accepted this concept, I would have been on the phone to him by now to explain to him what damage he has caused. I would have gone back to him and remained on the wheel as sure as eggs is eggs. 2 reasonable people who care for each other, can make it work, surely? He was always so sodding reasonable and calm but utterly impossible to reach with my logic. It can only be because his logic and world view is completely different. The big downside for me initially was that letting go of anger at him for his deliberate, calculated cruelty left room for more gentle feelings like pity.
Articles like this are truly an antidote to my emotional thinking.
He use to say “I didn’t intend to hurt you” but not as an apology. It was not his fault that he hurt me because it wasn’t his intention. All of those years he lied to me about his IPPS isn’t his fault because he didn’t intend to hurt me. And he believes that.
SO SO interesting
Thank you HG😊
I think the projection of our own “normal” worldview is the toughest thing to get around and hold fast to.
Once I really grasped that truth back at the original discard it was a huge relief to me. Even though it meant I had to realize much of what I experienced meant nothing to them. Once i suspended reality and got into their mind set and saw them as operating from a defense mechanism or control need- their behavior made 100% sense. I then realized the futility of bringing most things up to them or thinking i could change it. Saddening but freeing!
It does make everything clearer.
Clarity is my favorite thing about this place!
Your classifications of narcissists are extremely simplistic. Many DO know what they’re doing.
Wrong. They do not. The vast majority do not know and I have explained this repeatedly in detail.
Dearest HG: Regarding Narcissists believing what they are saying or doing is right at a given moment. In the Now. It is dangerous that many do not believe this and can not understand this. Such as what happens in Law enforcement when they do not understand the state of mind of a Narcississt: I believe many Narcissists are killed by the police during an entanglement, unnecessarily. The Narcississt is going to dig in under duress, and instead of the police understanding this and telling the Narcississt that he or she is right, and that they just want to hear them out, and that they understand that they are in a difficult situation, etc. etc, Law enforcement unfortunately, immediately challenges the Narcississt, and thus take away the Narcissist`s desperate need to feel in control. The police should wisely present a facade of control to the Narcissist and then ask the Narcisissit how best to resolve the situation, and such things and slowly move in and calm down and then capture the Narcississt, alive. But,, because Narcissism is not understood by law enforcement, many Narcissists, especially Lower Narcissists, are handled the wrong way by Law Enforcement. So, the Narcissist is first cornered, and then challenged and then killed by law enforcement, unnecessarily.
I would say that narcissists dig their own graves, so to speak, whether knowingly or unknowingly, in these cases.
I would also submit that it’s often Narc-on-Narc action out there in the overtly criminal world.
Lisk: Many believe that some police are also Narcissists. And I am sure there is some truth to that. So that fact has to also be taken into consideration. So Narcs will then often collide in many law enforcement encounters. This is very bad. The police will not want to lose control of course, and would also not like the idea of even pretending to give some control to the Narc. And the Narc will dig in, in the middle of the NOW event, so the result is that the Narc is often killed. And because the person killed is often a lower Narc, the public often says, good riddance, or it is no big deal. But, for the loved ones of the killed person, it is a big deal. The police need to be trained in Narcissism in a way that they can understand, and that appeals to their own potential Narcissism as well, and this training will take a very knowledgeable behavioral specialist: To make sure that the police understand that to calm the Narcississt is not giving over control in actuality, and to teach them how to go about it: For example, in a domestic event, (1) the police should immediately blame shift and chastise the family members involved, first of all. (2) And then ask them what did THEY do to upset this person so much. (even though this approach will puzzle the victims of the Narcississt, the greater goal is to not be forced to kill the Narcissist). (3) And then the police should tell the victims that this person also has rights, and that just because someone calls the police first, it does not mean that they can tell the entire story. And so forth. (4) Then the police can address the Narcississt, who probably finds this type of speech, that actually seems to be on their side, coming from the police, very interesting and somewhat calming. (5)And then the police can ask the Narcissist what happened, and somewhere during all that the police can even move in subtly and capture the Narcississt, if that really is what should be done, without killing the Narcississt. Like HG`s reader, Mercy, said to me about the trafficking of young women, that it was overlooked by many people until the problem started reaching into their own neighborhoods and their own lives and family. Likewise, the problem of police killing lower Narcissists especially, because the police do not understand and have not been trained about Narcissism, is being largely overlooked, and will be overlooked, unfortunately, until it happens more and more to more people and the Narcissists that they have relationships with within their own spheres including their own family members, are killed. Then it will matter that Narcissism is not understood more by law enforcement. And more people are experiencing this typing of killing more and more, and now are saying, they never believed the police would shoot a person in their own family, during an encounter, and they THEN say that this is supposed to happen to other people and somewhere else and not to them.
Police and criminals (some one and the same) is often a demonstration in narc on narc action.
PSE
I disagree, an enraged lessor is not easily calmed down.
If the shot can be made with out harming the victim, take it. Their choices brought them to that moment.
I think narcissists with lower intelligence don’t know what they are and quite often think they are the victims it’s the ones with above average intelligence that I don’t believe that they don’t know what they are or what they are doing but all narcissists are dangerous some will outright assault you those wounds are visible and most people feel a sense of guilt if they don’t do something to help, it’s the narcissist with a brain that is truly dangerous, they will end a persons life without raising a finger and the world protects them not because the narcissist is really that well loved but because he or she has convinced them of their innocence and they are the victim and normal people protect them, then once the damage has been done to the real victim they realise they have victimised an innocent person.
Wanting to release them self of the guilt they justify it to themselves and others so they then step into narcissistic thinking This can change but won’t ignorance is bliss to most people
Look at Charles and Andrew those men are responsible for many lives and probably a direct result of their mother they all would have a good understanding of what they are the whole family is full of narcissists they are nothing but faces pretending they are still important the world knows what they are and dose nothing because they believe they are all powerful I don’t see them that way I see weakness in them and fear they projecting onto others like Megan to keep the press away from Charles and Andrew people get distracted easily to the next thing and gossip is the best way to do it
HG how do you think Andrew handles Knowing the world Is laughing at him atm?
He will be oblivious to much of it, VT and where he is not, it will be challenge fuel.
Oblivious to is because he is a lesser N? Or oblivious to it because of his status he is largely protected from the outside world or a combination of both?
Both.
Elizabeth: They go into so many odd mindsets. Mindsets that many people do not go in to. The one that I have noticed the most, is the NOW event that overtakes a Narcissist . So much chaos can happen during a NOW event with a Narcississt. When the dust settles, they may look it over, but at that time, they feel they are right and whatever they are saying is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And whatever they are doing is right. I could elaborate even more, but I will leave it at that, for now. We have to face the fact that a person`s mind is anything but simplistic and at times works in odd ways, both good and bad. I have seen this happen, and I also have seen a Narc Gang go into a NOW event, and actually go after each other with malice, temporarily. People that observe these type of things find it practically unbelievable. It is a state of mind. Whether we want to believe it or not. When a Narcississt is in a NOW event, do not even bother to talk them out of it, to point out aspects of it to them, or try to stop them, as much as is in your ability or capacity at that time. Just go shampoo your hair or something.
“I’m gonna wash that Narc right outta my hair!”
Lisk: `Only your hairdresser knows for sure.`
Funny you should mention that, PS!
I was just at my hairdresser’s today. And, yes, she will know for sure, or at least learn how to know for sure, because . . . .
My hairdresser and I were talking about Narcx and how well I have been quashing his hoovers. I didn’t call them hoovers. I just gave her descriptions of what he did and how I handled it. She was quite proud of me. She gave me great kudos.
At one point, she asked, “Is he a narcissist?”
“Yes!” I answered and proceeded to tell her (after she gave me the perfect entrée) about narcsite.com.
I hope she visits here. I mean, who better person to help spread the word about HG than a hairdresser?!
Elizabeth
Until I dated a man who not only was aware yet understood himself I couldn’t understand why the others couldn’t “see” themselves .
Elizabeth & Twilight,
My Narcx was “aware” and “understood” himself. He had been in therapy for years. He journaled everyday. He could also rattle off the DSM-5 like nobody’s business.
He “planned” his life, and he tried to plan mine. I did not behave as he expected me to, so he tossed me for someone else who he could plug into his plan. The woman who cooperates wins!
Did/Does he “really” know what he is doing?
No. If he really knew what he was doing, he would have completed the significant steps of his plan a long time ago.
Lisk
I believe it is understanding their narcissism to which Jon did. He broke it down in a similar way as HG does here.
Twilight,
I am about confused. Was Jon the man you dated? Was he a narcissist?
Lisk
Yes I dated Jon for almost 3 years, he is a Greater Narcissist. Before HG Jon explained his perspective similar to how HG does, the difference is HG can convey to the masses and they can understand. One has to be quick with Jon. When I look back now I see he was trying to confuse me with the truth, it threw me off and gave him the window he needed so I fell in love with him.
Jon taught me anything can be used as a weapon, HG taught me how to be effective in how I use my tools as weapons for defense.
Twilight,
What kind of “truth” was he trying to confuse you with and how?
Was it about other women? About his past? About why he wanted you in his life?
Lisk
About his narcissism. He never lied to me about it.
I associate NPD via the behaviors of midrangers and leasors, never a Greater.
Ah, makes sense. Thank you for clarifying, Twilight.
I agree, Elizabeth. I simply cannot get my head around this ‘instinct’-theory. It is not my experience at all. But maybe this is a semantic discussion.
For example: the narcissist I am involved with, is a stalker. But he is not stupid. He knows very well that stalking someone is not accepted. So if he stalks me, he knows he is doing something unacceptable – but HE thinks it is acceptable, because he is entitled and has every right to do whatever he wants. Still, that is not ‘instinctive’, that is ‘calculated’ (in my semantic view). For me, ‘instinctive’ means that someone is not aware of his own (crazy, stupid, criminal etc.) behaviour. But for HG Tudor, I think it means that the narcissist does not take any accountability for his behaviour. As long as no one knows, everything is allowed. The narcissist does not care about me or my feelings, but… I am sure he does care about his facade, and that is why he will NEVER tell anyone about his stalking activities. And because of that – he keeps it a secret – I call it ‘calculated’, and not instinctive. He knows. He knows exactly what he is doing (and that it is wrong, crazy, unacceptable in the eyes of society and all his friends) but he calculates that no one will ever find out. Nothing instinctive about that, in my view. Pure calculation.
Stalking can never be an instinctive act, simply because it takes planning. It cannot be done in the spur of the moment, without thinking – and that is what ‘instinctive’ means to me. If the narcissist has to wait for hours in front of my house, that can never be called ‘instinctive’ (in my opinion, or maybe in my language, because English is not my first language).
Is it a semantic discussion? Or is this my ET?