You Are Being Conned





Once upon a time. The Princess and the Pea. Prince Charming. Snow White. Pretty Woman. Barbie and Ken. The Waltons. Hug you from behind. Breakfast in bed. Picking you up in the rain. Glimpsing you from a train and running after you. The Fabulous Baker Boys. Roman Holiday. Bouquets. Surrounded by your loving family as you pass away. Snow at Christmas. Remembered birthdays. The Little House on the Prairie. Beauty and the Beast. A Room With a View. City breaks. Walking in the foam. Holding hands. Growing old together. Gone With the Wind. The white knight. Crazy For You. The Passion. Spooning in bed. Monogamy. Rosanna. Love Me Tender. Truly Madly Deeply. A candlelit bath. The Best. Gift on the pillow. Save the Best For Last. Impromptu lunch. Dancing cheek to cheek. Someday my prince will come. Red roses. White roses. Opening doors. Up Where We Belong. Romeo and Juliet. Holding your hair. You’re the First, My Last, My Everything. Writing ‘I Love You’ in the steamed up mirror. Endless Love. I Think I Love You. Dedicating a song on the radio. Father Figure. The Power of Love. Fairytale wedding. Carved initials on a tree inside a heart. Giving you the last Rolo. Love conquers all. Love will save the day. Love’s young dream. Love is a many splendored thing. Writing poems. Love notes in a lunch box. A message in the sand. Till death do us part. Together forever. Bright young things. Never Tear Us Apart. Soulmate. Other half. My Heart Will Go On. Bridget Jones’ Diary. I’ll Stand By You. Children. A Whole New World. Paris in the spring time. Lazing in a hammock together. A log cabin by the lake. The Notebook. The Spider man kiss. Notting Hill. Rose and Jack. Letting you sleep in. Bella and Edward. Latika and Jamal. Dirty Dancing. Leading the dancing. Remembering anniversaries. In sickness and in health. When Harry Met Sally. Synchronised orgasms. Sex in the morning. Sex in the evening. Still having sex after all these years. Fidelity. Eyes only for you. An Officer and a Gentleman. Isla and Rick. Letting you first. Knowing you hate spiders. Viola and William. Stardust. Walking in the snow together. Walking through leaves together. Edward Scissorhands. Just the Way You Are. My Girl. Annie’s Song. Matching tattoos. Wearing a wedding band. I Will Always Love You. When a Man Loves a Woman. I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing. Love is blind. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. The perfect match. Our love is predestined. It was written in the stars above. Love at first sight. Mr/Mrs Right, “My one and only,” “man/woman of my dreams,” “match made in heaven,” “love of my life,” “my true love,” “made for each,” “my perfect match,” “I met the love of my life,” “I knew this was the one.”  “We were meant for each other.” “instant connection,” “clicked right away,” “chemistry at first sight,” “hit it off right away,” “experienced immediate attraction,” “instant rapport,” “completely hit it off,” “it was magical,” “you put a spell on me” . Love is a river that drowns the tender reed. The perfect house. The country idyll. Home is where the heart is. Wuthering Heights. Jayne Eyre. Twilight. The Hunger Games. Gabriel’s Inferno. Water for Elephants. Warming the bed first. Investigating a bump in the night. Holding you during a storm. Never being taken for granted. Perfection. Having it all. The Happy Ever After.

False promises and unrealistic ideals created by them.

A gateway to the false promised land, to the unrealistic ideal life offered and exploited by us.

Resorting to self-destructive and addictive behaviours in order to compensate for these failings and disappointments by becoming entangled with us again and again and again. That’s you.

Who is to blame?



  1. There may be ONE realistic (sort of) depiction of Mawiage and Twue Wuv.

    A guy found a bizarre ’70s porn film in an old cinema, involving a redneck couple arguing while trying to have sex (he can’t get it up). The footage was released decades later by a cult film company as Bat Pussy.

    It has been suggested that the film be shown to teenagers as part of school abstinence programs, as it ought to turn anyone who sees it off sex for years, possibly permanently.

    Sample dialogue:

    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: You don’t know how to suck a dick, do you?
    [Pauses ]
    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: Hey! You ain’t answered yet!
    Unidentified drunk female hillbilly: How can I answer with a mouth full of dick?

    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: “My horoscope says I’m going to fuck you in the nose.”

    Unidentified drunk female hillbilly: Hey, lemme tell you somethin’
    [* tilts to one side and farts loudly * ]

    The realism diminishes when superheroine Bat Pussy comes to make it a threesome, commuting on an
    inflatable hippity hop ball (aka space hopper) to the sound of “Sewer Lady,” pirated from the ’60s Batman TV series.

    No one knows what the original purpose of the movie was (though it’s likely lots drugs were involved), but it might be the best way to render viewers immune to a few narcs with Pepé Le Pew routines.

    1. I wonder what his sign is. It doesn’t sound like a good horoscope day.

      Princess Bride is one of the best movies, in my opinion.

  2. Hi H.G., re: Lennon’s “The Walrus” and your comment up thread. The parts written after imbibing LSD would include
    “I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob”?

    Very dry! (humour I mean).

  3. I am waiting to see the movie No Time To Die with Daniel Craig. Coming out 2020 .I think HG could resemble Daniel Craig for some reason .

    1. Pati, he has said that he does resemble DC. K can get the info once she’s done finding Pamela links if she’s so inclined to do so. Isn’t she the best Narchivist ever?!?

          1. Pati, she has all his stats assembled and can tell you more. As for my knowledge, he is tall, blonde, and has blue eyes. (And gorgeous legs!)

          2. He certainly does and dont forget a sexy voice!
            He sounds very handsome just like I thought .Maybe i will leave the rest to my imagination.

    2. Pati
      Here you go!

      K says:
      November 3, 2018 at 18:57
      HG is 6’ 1” with blond hair (think Daniel Craig), blue eyes and full lips.

      Strongerwendy says:
      June 25, 2018 at 20:52
      HG, do you look anything like this Herve Renard football coach I happened upon while watching world cup today? Very nice.

      HG Tudor says:
      June 25, 2018 at 21:09
      Ha ha, there are some similarities, but not dead ringers.

      HG Tudor
      JUNE 23, 2018 AT 23:37
      I am an actor but I m not a trained actor, therefore I would choose Christian Bale or Daniel Craig.

      1. K
        Just when I thought I could not be more impressed with you. Seriously, how do you do that? Do you have the worlds best search engine at your finger tips or is that search engine just you brain? Also, I’m not trying to be pushy here but I just thought about how entertaining it would be if your username was actually “The Narchivist” and then we could cheer you on saying “The Narchivist strikes again!”

        1. Desirée
          Hahahaha….“The Narchivist” would be a cool username!!! I just might change it. The worlds best search engine at my finger tips is correct. The magic is in the fingers!

          There are several ways to pull up old threads or comments. I use both the search function on narcsite and Google and, sometimes, I just remember the convo by the name of the thread.

          1. The morality convo is on the Fueltania thread a.k.a. A Stolen Love.
          2. The shampoo thread is on Viking by Creed (Perfect Scents)
          3. The peacock/animal/zoo comment is on the Assateague thread (Letter no- 40)
          4. The Micheal Jackson thread is The Narcissist’s Realty Gap.

          I use words to manipulate the search engines and find answers for the bloggers who need them. “The Narchivist strikes again!”

          1. Dearest HG and K. I can not find any clear info. on google regarding what is: Royal Tea. Whether it is a company brand or a flavor or a type, etc.: I can not figure it out at all on that search engine. HG, Will you please tell me about the Royal Tea and the particulars about this tea? K. I remember Woke describing you as the Narchivist. I second!!

          2. It is Royal Blend tea. That is as far as this thread will go with regard to tea-drinking.

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath
            Hahahaha…thank you! Fortnum and Mason has a wonderful website and you find what you are looking for there.

      2. Thank you so much K , i started the blog in Aug 2019 so i appreciate it ! I cant believe i visioned HG as Daniel Craig. Well he is a hunk then!

          1. Pati
            Hahaha…ok, here’s The Full Monty!

            HG is an Ultra Elite Nomadic high functioning narcissistic psychopath, who is indirectly linked with Parliament. He likes to drink tea, either Royal Tea or Moroccan Mint Tea, both from Fortnum and Mason, and he does not frequent coffee shops. HG enjoys writing, history (especially 12-17th century English/British History), football, badminton, fencing, shooting, film, literature, fine dining, ballistics and weaponry and watching plays. He has 20/20 vision, which makes him an excellent marksman, and he can also fly planes and speak German. He follows The Economist, Financial Times and such like-for information.

            HG is 6’ 1” with blond hair (think Daniel Craig), blue eyes, full lips and arched eyebrows. 
He is a Gen-Xer, however, 3 fresh souls a day keeps him looking like he is 22. He’s a Virgo, who was born during the “Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness,” (autumn), and has 2 wishes: an extra set of hands and for people to understand he does not do the blog for fuel. Currently, he has five telephones.

            He is ambidextrous but his left hand is dominant. HG does not smoke (It’s a filthy and disgusting habit) or have any tattoos and his IQ is 134 (he scored a 1 on the HSP test). His preferred socks are TM Lewin, Ralph Lauren or Hugo Boss and he wears boxers; CK.

            Family Motto: Victoria Aut Morte, favorite football team: Manchester City, favorite band: Depech Mode.
            There are 25 hours in a Tudor day, and he enjoys eating souls for fun. Previously, he owned a Mercedes (anthracite black) then a Jaguar and now a Tesla Model S. HG triple tracks, never worries and is not lonely or sad; he is cold order and belongs to nobody.

            Engaged twice, married once, no children. His girlfriend is Sheildmaiden; he prefers Magnet Super Empaths and has never had an IPPS who was a narcissist and he likes to create ever presence with Viking by Creed.

            Lennox (brother): standard carrier empath.
            Rachael (sister): Co-dependent.
            Father: Co-dependent.
            MatriNarc: UMR Elite.

            Pssst…His name is john smith but don’t tell anybody.

          2. Wow a lot of info on the king lol. THANKS K your the best !
            I also believe he likes creed cologne,wine,and finlandia

          3. You are welcome Pati!
            Oh, I left out a lot of things but I will switch it up for the next time.

          4. K. I am so happy that HG drinks tea. I would never have guessed. I wonder what that Royal Tea tastes like. I am a tea-drinker– not a connoisseur though. But, I like the sound of that Royal Tea. Very interesting. K, are you sure that HG was not jesting regarding liking tea? Thanks for the info. I do not have an international sports team, so I will adopt the Manchester Team. So, I need to look up their schedule, etc. Huzzah! (HG, I do not desire to wear out the shout, Huzzah, but ever since I read it from you, I find it to be terrific! I just love it. And I do not know of a comparative exclamation according to my tastes. Huzzah! )

          5. My pleasure PrincessSuperEmpath
            Huzzah, I’m a tea drinker, too. Order some Royal Tea and let us know if you like it. I asked him if he liked to drink tea when I was new to the blog and this was his answer.

            HG Tudor says:
            June 1, 2017 at 12:06
            I do drink tea. I drink either Royal Tea or Moroccan Mint Tea, both from Fortnum and Mason.


            HG Tudor
            JANUARY 16, 2019 AT 07:29
            1. I do not frequent coffee shops – I think I may have visited them less than half a dozen times in my life.
2. Nobody ignores me.


          6. Princess:
            Everybody supports Man U. Couldn’t you go off the beaten path a bit? West Ham, Luton, over half a dozen football clubs in Newcastle alone.

            Just don’t be a Liverpool Supporter. If HG supports Man U, that would put you in The Dungeon for sure.

          7. Well not everybody supports Manchester United, if they did, no other teams would exist.

            There is only one professional league football team in Newcastle, that is Newcastle United. Gateshead are over River Tyne, but they are non-league. Sunderland are in League One and are about 15 miles away. After that you have Middlesbrough about 45 minutes´drive south of Newcastle. Beyond that there are a lot of non-league sides but that goes for all over the UK. If you are looking for league sides, the nearest to Newcastle is Sunderland, then Middlesbrough, after that you need to go north into Scotland or west to Carlisle or south to the Leeds/Bradford area for league sides.

            I do think that you need some lessons on British geography Violetta, you are clearly an educated person and I think especially so with regard to the arts and literature, but not geography and football!

            I do not support Manchester United. Suggesting that I do is a dungeon-worthy offence. Off you go!

          8. HG: K said you support Manchester City. I knew several grad students who all claimed to be Man U supporters, possibly as a hipster thing. (Clearly, there’s a distinction I didn’t get.) I admit, my personal experience of the UK is limited to one visit to London and two visits to Leeds, which I liked better because they don’t talk funny like Londoners.

            As for football, I got a Leeds United FC jersey partly as a tourist thing, since one conference-goer was on crutches and had promised to get her husband an LUFC keychain and I figured I’d pick up something for myself while I was in Leeds City Centre getting the keychain. I also got it partly in honor of my grandfather, who grew up in Leeds, though I have no idea whether he was a football supporter at all. Not that it matters, because a) we didn’t get on; and b) around the time I was there, LUFC were more famous for violence off the pitch than on it. Half of them were had up for Violent Assailing, or whatever the UK equivalent of A&B is.

          9. I am sorry I supposed you to be a Man U supporter, HG.

            I will never make such a horrid assumption again.

            Please stop putting Celine Dion on the speakers down here. There is such a thing as Cruel and Unusual Punishment, even for me.

          10. K. Thank you for the info. on HG and Tea. The info is quite worthwhile to me. (notice the rhyme?) lol.

          11. My pleasure PrincessSuperEmpath
            Hahahaha….the rhyme is funny and I am very happy that you found the info worthwhile!

          12. Violetta: I regret to inform you that I will not be taking your sporting recommendations especially attached with your geographical knowledge of Teams and their locations, at this time. I have decided to go in another direction. Do you have a favorite football team? Thank you kindly for your input.

        1. Dearest HG: There are 2 Manchester teams? In the same League? Manchester City plays Manchester United this Saturday, if I am looking at the correct data. I guess Manchester is a large area to have 2 teams? Darn: I think Manchester United is having somewhat of a troubled season, so far. Oh no! And, Manchester United seems to have a lot of Draws. That seems odd. I wonder why is that. I don`t know how to analyze these standings with all of these Draws. But, a Draw is surely better than a loss. Anyway: Go Manchester U. Huzzah! HG, does this qualify as the oddest post of the day? Huzzah!

          1. Pati
            Hahahahaha…you have saved Elfie from a gruesome demise.

            By acquiescing, you have provided fuel and confirmed HG’s supremacy over you and Elfie.

          2. Dearest HG: If you do not not support Manchester United, then this team of the 2 Manchester teams, with the lesser record, Manchester United, is not my team, and then my team is probably Manchester City, with the better record so far this year. So just like that, in less than a minute, what will probably be my team is doing very well, Huzzah!, and must be Manchester City (and I thankfully would not have to reflect on all of those Draws). I definitely do not want to catch any feelings for the wrong team: HG, is Manchester City your team? I just want to be sure. Thank you.

          3. Manchester City is my team.

            Your attitude towards football is what we call a glory supporter and would mean I would not want you supporting my team.

          4. HG. I am not a glory supporter. What an insult. If Manchester U. were your team, I would have willingly supported it, even with all of those Draws. But, I am not a glory supporter. Proof of this is that I am a Mets Fan in baseball in, while the glory supporters are Yankees Fan. But, yes, a winning record is better than a losing record, so if Manchester City is winning at this point, plus they are your team, thus my team, then yes. I am Glad. Huzzah!

          5. You chose the team with the better record, that is the very definition of a glory supporter!

          6. Dearest HG; I see now. You thought I was choosing a team because of its win loss draw record, just because I discussed that aspect. There is nothing wrong with me looking at how a team is doing. That does not make me an accursed Glory Supporter. But, I was not choosing a team because of that. I said earlier that I wanted what to me would be an international team, and K said Manchester was your team. I just erred on which of the 2 teams was yours. Now I know it is Manchester City, because that fact is clarified to me, now. I thought from Violetta that Manchester U was your team. So then it was my team. Then I saw that it seemed that Manchester C. was your team. So it became my team. I did not choose this team because of its record, at all. Or for any feeling of `glory.` I chose it because of you. But, winning will never be an insult to me,. If any team of mine were to win a game, or have a winning season.

          7. Dearest HG: When I first discussed the 2 Manchester Teams based on K reporting that Manchester was your team, I mistakenly thought that Manchester United was your team, and I discussed what appears to me to their current record of: Manchester United: 5 wins 6 draws 4 losses. I wondered about all the draws and I thought that they may need more deception in their technique: I only thought about this so much, because I thought this was your team and consequently my team. Then I found out that Manchester City is your team and therefore my team, with what appears to me to have a record thus far of: 10 wins 2 draws 3 losses. A very good record. So, there is no glory fandom involved on my side, just for noticing this very good record. Rather, I am making observations of these 2 teams. Being glad that ones team, in this case my new team of Manchester City, is having a good season is NOT being a glory fan. It is just being glad that my team is doing well, versus doing poorly or mediocre. Huzzah! I am not a Glory Fan. The `Glory `of either of these 2 teams, from my standpoint, and the reason for my choice, is that you chose the team, and in this case that glory goes to my new team of: Manchester City.

        2. Princess:

          Leeds, but they usually suck.

          Reasons for my support and their suckage in an earlier post.

          1. HG, please take “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” off “repeat.”

            I promise that–

            Do it to Julia! DO IT TO JULIA!!

          2. HG:

            Dirty players, or dirty=unhygienic?

            Yeah, I know I’ve set myself up for the blanket answer “Yes.”

          3. That’s Lloyd’s of London, Princess. Leeds is in West Yorkshire, home of the Brontes. Emily mocks Southron accents in Wuthering Heights.

          4. Violetta. Yes, Lloyds of London. That is probably what I am thinking of. Probably, rarely, Leeds is mistakenly placed to be of London also over here, then: Such as in this case here with the popular online shopping site Etsy that has 91 items for sale under the category of Leeds of London: Popular items for leeds of london
            (91 Results)

          5. Violetta: I find your spelling of the classic drawl, in U.S. southern accents, the best I ever saw. I noticed when you gave an example of a female, not Scarlett, in your hypothetical script, a week or so ago. If someone wanted to try out and speak a classic southern drawl, according to your spelling style, they would nail it. lol. I know, and I used to have a medium southern drawl, the bad kind, but my parents hired a speech coach to tame it. They did not have one, because they were not from the South, but I picked it up. The way some writers spell, to create the classic southern drawl, makes me cringe.

          6. Leeds United can’t help it, HG. They all have CTE from having their heads Cracked Together Like Coconuts when they grew up.

            I could deal with the Titanic Theme being piped into the dungeon, but “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” was my Room 101.
            2+2=5, we have always been at War with Eastasia, and the Ministry of Plenty has raised the Choco ration from 25g to 20g.

            Folks, don’t give the Tude ‘tude. He don’t mess around.

          7. Princess: I learned that from Florence King. She had a real gift for capturing the voices. She grew up in Virginia and was used to her Granny’s Tidewater accent, but when she went to grad school in Mississippi, the gushing of all the wannabe Campus Cuties in the throes of what King called “the Pert Plague” drove her up a wall.

      3. Hmmph! That’s it for my long-distance Stan Sugar Harem Addicted Brainwashed Cult Crush. I like scruffy, moody men with longish dark hair and 3-day stubble.

        Off to stalk somebody else now.

        Don’t tell Pamela.

          1. There’s always Ron Gallo’s “Young Lady, You’re Scaring Me.” No ambiguity there!

  4. Hi HG, I have been looking for the page: Look Who’s Come to Dinner but couldn’t find it. It always says 404 error page not found. Did it get removed?

    1. Hello MP, no, it has returned. To save me time, I changed its publication times which means it disappears into the ether for a short time and then comes back at the scheduled time, intact with comments from before. (This is faster for me than copying and pasting into a new article).

      1. I’ve noticed this happening with the articles. Thank you for explaining the phenomenon. I thought you might gaslighting us! Ha ha

  5. I have found myself analyzing everything and everyone I meet or know. What they say, how they say it, their behavior, reactions. Love is not all around us, narcissism is all around us. I have also found myself to be cynical these days. Is this as good as it gets now? I just don’t want to put myself out there anymore. So either way, until I find the middle I am isolating myself and thus letting the narc win. Sure I’m still functioning nobody knows how I really feel inside, I still know how to put my social face on, I am grateful for my freedom and happy with what I have, my accomplishments and what is still to come. However, when it comes to love I say ba humbug!

      1. I give him credit for testifying against music censorship in the ’90s. They made a movie about it in which Denver shows up looking like a Clean Livin’ tree-huggin’ ’70s relic from Central Casting. When Dee Snider (playing himself) finds to his surprise that Denver is against censorship because people misinterpreted nature-worship song “Rocky Mountain High” as a paean to drugs, Snider gasps, “You are my HERO!”

          1. Renarde:

            According to Dave Barry’s Book of Bad Songs, people frequently think the lyrics are “you fill out my census.”

            Could be an improvement.

          2. Renarde, that’s really funny ;-}. Someone singing with such emotion about the census – or getting all fuzzy about the N filling out their census for them (Control, boundaries, no consent) – making myself laugh now. And this makes me recall happily singing along to “Alex the Seal” with my bro as kids or teens. You know “Alex the Seal” by the GoGos.

          3. Sorry, above comment re “You fill out my census” should have been addressed to Violetta. I misread. Good one Violetta.

  6. HG, once again, grateful beyond words. The reality of emotional-psychological terrorism of devaluation, then physical abuse exists behind closed doors. The realities are disturbing to one’s senses in contrast to ‘familial and religious’ indoctrinations, enabling of (worldwide) misogynistic community, infrastructure of justice system and medical systems that monetizes the broken spirit of women.

    1. privatejourney60,

      I’d say there’s quite a misandrist community out there, too. And plenty of female narcs who are abusing and damaging boys-to-men, along with girls-to-women, as well.

      Always keep in mind: Narcissism is an equal-opportunity destroyer.

      1. Lisk,

        There were a few girls when I was growing up whose bullying ways were just cruel. After reading your comment, I wonder if they grew up and became kind as they grew out of childhood or did they grow up continuing to not care if they hurt another.

        I was just listening to “Greensleeves.” I didn’t think about it before but I wonder about the author and the one he loved. Was one of them a narcissist? If so, which one?

        1. It’s rumored Henry VIII wrote it, in which case, he’s the narc. It may be much older than that, though. It wasn’t attributed to him with the same certainty that “Pastime with Good Company” has been.

          1. I had read that as well and that some say it originated in Italy prior to Henry VIII. If listening to the song, it sounds like the lady could be narcissistic. I did a search though and found a longer version. The lyrics of the longer version could lend to a Golden Period of the author. I will go back to listening to it thinking of the sadness and hope he is feeling.

          2. There are some sources arguing that having “green sleeves” may signify grass stains on her clothing, i.e., she’s been rolling around in a field with someone. Probably someone else, since he doesn’t sound very happy about it

  7. Ironic that you are areligious, HG. Romeo and Juliet, with their talk of pilgrims, palmers, saints, granting for prayer’s sake, and most of all, “the god of my idolatry,” would be considered impious in the middle ages and Renaissance.

    Chaucer’s Troilus and Criseyde, which Shakespeare undoubtedly read, finishes its story of love, betrayal, and heartbreak with a call to the reader to forget pagan gods of love, Cupid, Venus, Eros, and seek the Christian God of love. One was never to put the creation before the Creator

    Both you and the theologians had severe doubts about romantic love.

    Skepticism makes strange bedfellows.

  8. I think i will watch the Wizard of Oz with my daughter tonight. There are no love scenes in that movie. Just love between friends following the yellow brick road.

  9. We are to blame for believing all these things.
    How did we know it was all false? because we were being conned. What is love anyway? I thought it exsisted but it really is a fairytale and should be kept at the movie theatre. I would rather be alone than go through this again. Thanks HG for this article it goes to show you this is all fake.

    1. Pati,
      Some of those things mentioned in the article do exist (I am not speaking about the films) as long as your partner isn’t highly narcissistic or a narcissist.

      1. Hi E.B.
        The problem is my husband is a Narcissist and it does change everything that I believed in. HG is correct when looking back most of my Exes were Narcissist. My boyfriend in college was he would break up with me and then Hoover me all the time, until I married one We are addicted to them. Addicted to Narcs = Addicted to love
        Hugs xoxo

  10. What about Beatrice and Benedick? Calvin and Susie Derkins? Vinnie and Lisa? What about CS Lewis’ Aravis and Cor, who “were so used to quarreling and making it up again that they got married so as to go on doing it more conveniently”?

    Why can’t I have someone for fighting o’ days and foining o’ nights? (And it’s no use telling me to patch up mine old body for heaven. I want to go to heaven–but not yet.)

  11. Great point. Maybe I should watch fewer Hallmark movies?! That’s my perfect world, with the best clarinet playing. My perfect world would be just like that, except I’d be the clarinetist in the background, also.
    I’m well aware of all the social brainwashing you talk about. Great point. It’s in film, music, fashion, food, poetry, novels…. It’s unrealistic from my current experience, but I don’t see anything actually wrong with it if u find a likeminded person. Wonder if that ever happens, or is the Narc pretending to be that as close as we’ll ever get. 🤔

    1. Cogra002, if there are 2 Empaths watching romantic movies then its all good. Watching them with the Narcissist no! We see the world differently.

    1. Loved the first part. Hated the second. I get tetchy about ‘ordained’. Way too close to ‘control’ in my book.

  12. Hmmm, I get your point, but while I’ll admit I’m a love devotee, when N announced that he loved me and yes, always had, I didn’t bite to start for quite some time Even soppy empaths have different ideas of what love is, we’re not all Disney type love devotees who need hearts and flowers forever you know?
    I told him that what I really wanted in my life was someone I could say anything to and be myself with (pardon the grammar). Then hey presto, he provided my wish, for a while at least.
    I’m starting to believe that I was a royal pain in his ass as I didn’t roll over for what is probably the usual strategy. This comforts me quite a bit.

  13. This is why i no longer read romance novels or super sappy happily ever after movies bc it does set you up for unrealistic expectations in life. Then you expect others to live up to those expectations. Ive also quit comparing my life to others. I used to feel so sad comparing other mother daughter relationships to mine. I felt i was owed a close relationship with my mother but as i matured psychologicaly i realise thats an unrealistic expectation.
    Same with my marriage. I needed to realise i made a choice staying with someone who was different from me intimately instead of expecting him to be someone hes not nor will be.
    Movies, romance novels get your head in the clouds! Its freeing to have a clear mind and accept this is a bunch of nonesense and not the case in most situations!

    1. C-Mum: I think social media and all, is some sort of romance novel as well. Ever since I have been on my GOSO and have not even peeped at my Facebook Page in about 6 months or so, I am feeling mentally and emotionally stronger. On here at Narcsite, although it is social media, posters` postings seem to me to be more realistic, and thus I can relate to everyone on here, whether they are at a low point or at a medium point or at a high point, in their postings: No one person on here is simultaneously hitting the lotto, and flying on a private jet, and having eyelash extensions (while her surrogate gives birth to her twins in a private location), while the chef that she has always wanted, has moved into her mansion to report for duty, in time for her to have a light afternoon snack, before she attends the annual Ball, ALL on the same day.

      1. Hi princesssuperempath….so true social media is a big lie in many respects and sometimes not intentional but moreso people post the good and not as much the bad in their lives. A good example were shannan and chris watts many thought thru social media they had the ideal life but i do think that image was intentional bc we see thru shannans conversations with friends it was not at all what was portrayed on social media.
        Ive learned not to go by face value especially on social media.
        Another example…a couple i was friends with were always doting on each other in public and overly affectionate to the point of it being awkward. Theyd be french kissing in front of myself and others. A year later it was revealed he was physically and emotionally abusive and they had divorced. I suspect he was a lesser and i know she was a midranger!
        I try not to compare and just be happy for others blessings. I find im much happier when i do opposed to being jealous or envious. Everyone has their own journey. Gratitude daily for what i do have! Id much rather reality than get carried away by supposed fantasies of perfect lives.

    2. You are so right. It’s the same thing with me, including the Mother/daughter dynamic. You’ve illustrated a very important fact, that what we fill our heads with and allow ourselves to be exposed to affects our outlook on life and colors our expectations of everything in our lives. Therefore we should be extremely judicious of what we allow to influence us, be it certain people, song lyrics, books, and most especially our own unrealistic and maladaptive thought processes. Cognitive behavioral therapy is a huge help in that regard, at least it has been for me. I learned about CBT techniques from a book and the techniques have been very helpful in most areas of my life.

      Anyway, I just wanted to emphasize just how right you are. What others have done to us may be terrible, but we have to be mindful of our expectations and how we process our experiences. We have to pay attention to the facts, the evidence, rather than our feelings. Thanks for the reminder and I hope you have a great day (or night, depending on where you are) 🌷

      1. Hi taryn
        Cbt is a wonderful tool. Ive read a couple books but need to reread. Its really helped my life by accepting what IS instead of fighting what i feel it should be. Also realising i can create my own happiness despite certain areas of my life not being what i wanted them to be. I try to practice gratitude daily and this has increased my feeling of being content and happy.
        There will always be that part of me thats a little girl who wanted a mother she could depend on to nurture her and be her friend and confidant. Thats left a void in my life but im choosing to fill it with self love and things that make me feel whole again. I wish i could reach out and hug every person who has that child within them that feels that void and is searching for it in the wrong places or dwelling on the sadness of it. I hope they can climb out and see theres other roads that can be taken in life and rebuilding a new life is possible and staying stuck in that void isnt necessary.

    3. C-mum, The romantic movies made me think that maybe my normal husband lacked passion and our marriage is boring. Now I know that he may not be passionate like a Romeo but he has always been there for me literally and figuratively and he’s always trying to make my life better, happier and easier. Even though he never tells me any flowery words and his flowers always come from the grocery store, he is my always dependable and always reliable man who loves me in his own reliable and dependable way. 🥰

      1. MommPino: Wow. I just saw the Lyrics on that Eggman and Walrus song that you posted I can not believe it. Remind me to never do drugs. I will just say, NO. I think lyrics like that should be shown to young teens to show a mind on drugs. I never saw lyrics like that. I heard the song before, but I guess I did not focus on the lyrics.

        1. I do not think that a song which managed to be number one and number two simultaneously on the British charts stands as a good example of a reason not to do drugs.

          You will find far clearer examples, such as videos of people who have taken spice.

          1. Dearest HG. The fear of myself doing drugs has already set in for me even greater with the lyrics of what you know to be a popular, top selling, and well-favored song: the eggman and walrus song. Now, if the videos of people using spice that you are bringing up are an even better example of the bad that can happen to people`s mind when taking drugs, then my fear is even more heightened about drug usage. I am very afraid. I am a great fan of the human mind, and I do not want people to so easily trust putting drugs into their body, since their mind lives there, but, of course, people have free choice to do so, as I know, of course.

          2. PSE, I like your rationale on why you don’t use drugs!
            I have known many who have used drugs, or still do, and understand their reasons for it.

            I was once prescribed medicine for a medical issue. When I took it I felt weird and zany, and the world seemed a lot out of control. I told the doctor never again as I never wanted to feel that way. I have been drunk and the world has spun, but that is different than what I felt with that medicine.

            Have you watched the animated “Alice in Wonderland” from many years ago? I liked it as a child but saw it recently as an adult. It reminded me of one of my many reasons why I could not do drugs.

          3. Getting There: I did not know that Alice in Wonderland was animated. I would love to watch it. I never read the famous book. So, I think it is about time. Once, I had a somewhat bad injury, and the doctor gave me pain killers and then a: True Strange Story: Next, I was walking on the literal highway in the middle of the night, trying to get back to the hospital, for some odd reason. I was in a surreal state, it seems. The doctor was embarrassed and he took me off of the painkillers. I was around 18 years old. I think I was both sleepwalking and on my way probably to becoming addicted, I would guess now, looking back on it all, and seeing all the oxycontin and such addicts that became addicted via medical pain treatment. He immediately took me off the painkiller and he also apologized to me. I forgot about that experience until now. Weird stuff.

          4. That is scary, PSE! I’m glad you are safe and the doctor stopped that prescription!

            Doctors have such responsibility when it comes to medicine. They can’t control addictions but they can monitor when someone is taking the medicine. I am thankful that I found a doctor who will only prescribe if absolutely necessary and there is no other option.

            I know families who have been torn apart due to drugs. It is very sad! There was a post recently on an Instagram account I follow. The adult child had been doing drugs. During one of his times it caused him to black out and do violent things, which he doesn’t remember. Although his parents love him, they got a restraining order against him after that episode. He has been clean now for some time and they invited him to Thanksgiving this year.

            The animated movie came out in the 50s.

        2. Princess: I’ve known more weed users than acid-heads, but for real scary, nothing so far beats Bath Salts or Meth. The first two are most likely to sit there for hours, harmless to their neighbors except for the constant Floyd. The last two kill their kids and eat you.

          1. Violetta I have seen scary videos of someone under the influence of Bath Salts trying to eat a homeless person alive.

        3. when i was in high school i went to the doctor for an issue, and at some point my mother told her that my insomnia is worsening, the doctor decided to give me sleeping pills, but the dumb me was so traumatised with the adds and all the fuss about drugs, that i was thinking ” i know you are trying to make me a zambi, don’t bother pretending you want to help ” i didn’t take the pills.

        4. PSE I agree!! Drugs is something that I have never tried because I just don’t see the point of doing it. And this song indeed shows how crazy drugs can make someone. It is hard to read that lyrics. This song also shows Lennon’s entitlement and grandiosity by selling crap to people. He was interviewed about it and he said that the song didn’t have any meaning. “The words didn’t mean a lot. People draw so many conclusions, and it’s ridiculous. I’ve had tongue in cheek all along–all of them had tongue in cheek. Just because other people see depths of whatever in it…What does it really mean, ‘I am the Eggman?’ It could have been ‘The pudding Basin’ for all I care. It’s not that serious.” It also shows how ridiculously stupid people can be buying something like that just because it was made by someone that they believe is a musical genius. While I agree that he has written some amazing songs, I don’t believe that everything that came out of him was a masterpiece. I remember watching an old movie about the manic worshipping of the Beatles where fans are actually willing to pay for strands of hair from the Beatles singers.

      2. MommyPino: I have heard that some people trip on drugs and never come out of it. And have to be institutionalized. Permanent eggmen and walruses. So very scary. Those lyrics you posted frightened me away from drugs more than any, `Don`t do drugs,` commercial. I would advise people that do drugs to sort of back off of them, if possible, and quickly, before some sort of breach or damage takes hold. Before, one day one could be okay, and the next day one could be a permanent eggman or walrus. Boom. Just like that.

        1. Hi PSE, what permanently frightened me from ever doing drugs was an incident in my grandmother’s province where a drug addict hacked his parents and siblings while he was under the influence. He said that they thought that they were banana trees. In my province banana trees are everywhere and they hack the trunk to get the fruits. They just grow back after several months. I was probably in third grade at that time and I just thought whatever it is that can make a person do something like that, I don’t ever want it in my body.

  14. Then what DO we want? Or what SHOULD we want?

    And what if we don’t want it? If I’m not “in love,” I not only don’t want to share a bed with a man, I don’t want to see him across a breakfast table.

    I know the intensity fades with time, but I still think the iambic pentameter would have informed Romeo and Juliet’s lives if they’d gone on to argue about house payments and soccer practice in Mantua.

    Besides, HG, this is your worldview, in which Love is an illusion. Narcs may take advantage of Lurve, but what if I met a non-narc who had similar concepts to mine?

  15. Annie’s Song was written in 10 minutes on a ski lift after a fight with his wife. Those were his feelings, how is that unrealistic if his feelings are real?

      1. HG and NA, thank you for trying to help me understand! I’m missing the boat, though. I cannot see John Denver as a narcissist. Was he one?

        Yes the song is one of my favorite and very romantic, so maybe my thoughts are skewed. The descriptions of what he compares to her filling up his senses are different types of nature settings that are calm and peaceful. They aren’t descriptions usually used of nature and power such as “you fill up my senses like a hurricane off the east coast.” They aren’t even scenes that depict excitement like “you fill up my senses like a large surfing wave.” His later verse where he says “let me love you… let me give my life to you…” are controlling but not in a way of “let me let you give your life to me.” He wants to give of himself and only asks that she love him. Isn’t that selfless?

        1. Getting There,

          The last four words of Annie’s song are “come love me again.” Somewhere in the middle of it, Denver also sings, “come fill me again!”

          He doesn’t really even ask. Not even a “please!”

          1. Hello, Lisk.

            That is a good point. I have read the great insights I have been given and listened to that song multiple times since. The comments have slightly changed how I hear the words. I still like the idea of the peace and calm feeling one brings to another; and I like the sharing of feelings. Maybe there is a better song that does both but doesn’t have some of those other aspects.

          2. Getting There,

            My guess is that the pop song, or even the folk song, that brings peace and calm feeling is a rare thing.

            I wonder, though, why do you desire peace, calm, and sharing of feelings in a song?

          3. Hello, Lisk.

            Ever since I can remember, music has a way with me. It can impact my feelings and thoughts.
            If I am spun up or sad, music helps me through or keeps me there if I feel I need to stay in that mood for a little while. If I am happy, music helps keep that going. If I need my mind to stay focused, I listen to music.
            There are classical songs which I love because of the beauty of the notes together, and the feelings those songs connect to. Words, for songs with words, matter. I can enjoy a song that I may not enjoy the words for other reasons. I have found, though, that many times words of songs can speak my thoughts and feelings probably better than I could. I have sent songs to family or friends or those I was in a relationship which I felt can say what I was thinking or feeling, either about them or a situation,
            in a way that makes sense. This is why I think of music in terms of relationships as well. What would I like for me to feel or think of another? What would I like for them to feel or think of me?
            Peace and calm? I want it. I come from a home of parents constantly fighting; I have had two relationships where it has been fighting and roller coaster, or such excitement and butterflies that you can’t just enjoy the moment. I want peace and calm in a relationship; I want to be a part of someone’s peace and calm in that relationship; and I want them to be a part of my peace and calm in that relationship.

          4. Getting There, I agree with everything you’ve said about the effect of music and lyrics, but with the opposite goal. At points of stress, the only thing that has helped sometimes is cranking up the Ramones or the Pixies and bouncing around the room crashing into the furniture.
            The Pixies’ “Dead” was particularly effective, and I didn’t even understand the words for years because Frank Black is screaming his head off.

          5. Hello, Violetta.

            I had heard of the Ramones but had not heard any of their song and looked them up. I had to look up Pixies and their song “Dead.” That seems like a fun way to work through stress!! Do you find that you are usually calm? The reason I ask is that I was talking to someone who is one of the calmest people I know in situations that would upset others. He was telling me that he used to have anger issues as a child. His favorite music and the music that he puts on during stressful times is heavy metal. The closest I have to a screaming song for when I need one is Matchbox 20 “Back 2 Good.”

            I have wondered that if there was music during sex would I get distracted listening to the song. LOL

          6. Getting There:
            I’m not at all a calm person, but having an outlet keeps me from being even more of a basket case. One afternoon, another stressed-out grad student and I stomped around my living room to the Pixies’ “U-Mass,” shrieking sarcastically, “It’s EDUCATIONAL!”

            When I did my dissertation defense, I had warned the grad students I shared an office with that however it went, there would be Ramones. I figured “Rock and Roll High School” if I failed (“I don’t care about history, cause that’s not where I want to be”), “Sheena is a Punk Rocker” if I passed.

            Fortunately, it was “Sheena” (although my 2nd reader couldn’t resist one last chance to try to throw me, until the Rhetoric professor came to my rescue).

            One TA was conferencing with a student when I got back to the office, and when the student saw me (wearing semi-corporate attire) turning my corner of the office into my personal moshpit, the TA just told him, “She just passed a really big test.” He told me later the student seemed to accept that simple explanation without being much fazed.

          7. Congratulations on all! That took a lot of dedication and self!
            Completing the dissertation and then successfully defending it is a cause for a celebration. I could see why the student would not be surprised. LOL
            It sounds like you found a great way to release some of the built up energy inside when you need it. That’s great!

    1. Getting there

      That song is a maudlin bunch of arse.Ne er liked it. Always set my teeth on edge.

      Screams Victim.

      YOU lift up my senses…Come lift them again.

      Nothing about what he wants to do for her. Of course not! He wants her fuel, he doesnt want to give her his energy.


      1. Hello, Renarde.

        Thank you for sharing that! I definitely will listen again with your description in mind to help me see.

        I understand what you are saying about how he is not saying what he will do for her. He doesn’t. He is sharing what he feels. The song itself was after a fight with his spouse. I don’t know what was said in the fight but it can be a response to the comments his wife said.

        A more overarching aspect of how I hear this song is a willingness to share feelings of oneself and not expect mind reading. This song is a moment in time, not the entirety of a relationship. I want a relationship where my significant other trusts me with sharing his feelings; it is as important as my ability to share mine. I’m a talker; and I need to know that I am not just in this relationship and the person is getting nothing out of it while I get everything.
        Another consideration is that what is romantic and speaks to one may not work for another. I have experienced where men seem to think that flowers and jewelry are the answer to showing their love. Not for this girl on either. The song “That’s What I Like” by Bruno Mars annoys me. He’s listing what he is willing to do for her. Lucky her, he likes it too. It doesn’t say “yeah, this guy has an actual connection.”

        Thank you for being willing to help me understand!

        1. Getting There

          My pleasure! And this has now has all the makings of a great sub thread.

          Forgive me, I have no wish to trample on what others love. I’m simply saying I dont like it.

          You’ve made me think a lot today about why I like some music and not others.

          Going back to Denver.

          That phrase I quoted is in two parts. This is just my take.

          You fill up my senses

          Yup. Ok by me. You are expressing how someone makes you feel.

          Come fill me again

          Yeah, THIS is problematic. It’s a call to action to her. Nothing about how hes sorry, or what he will do etcs…

          Looking at another love song, Lennons Jealous Guy. The first time I heard this I was astounded. The melody is simple but yet developed. The words are sublime.

          He says that he was jealous. He was sorry he made her cry. Now to my mind, Lennon is a difficult character. Ive no idea if hes a narc. He certainly scores high on traits. Lennon was a genious. Denver, not so much.

          Denver’s song is hawkish but Lennon is Lennon. Believe me, I don’t like the love song genre in any form.

          To my mind, all great art encapsulates emotion, complex emotion but put in a simple way. That’s the essence of Jealous Guy. Imagine is another one.

          Queens Love of my Life is another one and let’s not forget the narcsite perennial favourite, The Power of Love.

          Others that spring to mind are Billie Halliday, Nina Simone and Amy Winehouse.

          Performers I loathe.

          Chris Rea – God. You punish us!!!
          Neil Diamond – Why? Why?
          Phil Collins – Jesus Christ.
          Dire Straits – The clue is in the name…

          Borng. Middle of the road. Unoffensive. Lift music.

          And thus I end the case for The Prosecution.

      2. Would you prefer Positive K’s “I Got a Man”?
        I want to turn you on and excite you
        Let me know the spot on your body and I bite you
        So when your man don’t treat you like he used to
        I kick in like a turbo booster
        You know what’s the problem, ya not used to learnin’
        I’m big daddy longstroke, and your man’s pee wee herman

        1. Renarde,
          I had to look up “Jealous Guy.” I’m not a John Lennon fan so I didn’t know it. I liked reading your list!
          I like “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” “Sway” with Michael Buble, and love “My Confession” by Josh Groban. I knew someone who thought “2 Out of 3 Ain’t Bad” was a romantic song; it wasn’t my preference of how I saw romance.

          LOL I give the person credit for being confident. I prefer “Must be Doin’ Somethin’ Right” by Billy Currington.

          1. I love ’90s rap, when it’s funny and snotty. “Baby Got Back” is always great for getting people out on the dance floor.

            The current mumble-rap, however….

          2. Some of Lennon’s stuff is scary: “Run for Your Life” and “You Can’t Do That,” for example.

            He had a lot of narc qualities, but was probably not full narc. He admitted his abusive behavior towards women. He once said in an interview that he emphasized Peace because he knew he was a violent man.

            Yoko, OTOH….

          3. My friends and I used to play “Baby Got Back” a lot and “Funky Cold Medina.” Salt N Peppa’s “Shoop” is a fun song to rap with.
            I do like Eminem ‘s older stuff.

          4. Thank you for sharing that about John Lennon.

            I wonder how many song writers are empaths and how many are narcissistic or narcissists. I need to look up how a normal would see romance and which song matches their style.

            I wonder if Eminem is an empath. I used to think that his ability to share his thoughts in his songs made him open and honest. It’s like Elvis. He was very giving, so I assume empath.

          5. I’m always up for “My Name Is,” “The Real Slim Shady,” and of course “Lose Yourself,” but I find “Kim,” um, disturbing.

          6. I agree, Violetta. I also like “Mockingbird.” The song “Without Me” reminds me of a possible narcissist I once knew. I look back and think of how little I understood of his personality then but I was attracted to it.

          7. Hi Getting There,
            I think that John Lennon was a narcissist. He was emotionally abusive to both of his sons, especially the first son. The son with Yoko Ono was his golden child that was used to triangulate with the older son but even that favored son also said that he was abused too.

            I don’t think that John Lennon was all that too. He wrote some good songs but he also wrote crappy ones.

            I do wonder if John Denver was a narcissist. I am unaware of anything about his personal life that would indicate such. He seemed like a really nice guy and I am not aware of any stories from people who knew him intimately that they were abused. I have heard that he was best friends with Clint Eastwood and I’m also very curious what Clint Eastwood is.

          8. Hi Getting There,

            I looked up John Denver and found some disturbing details about him and his ex wife Annie. He actually tried to choke her. He also sawed their marital bed in half with a chainsaw. That sounds like fury to me and not just a normal anger. Even I wouldn’t do something like that in my worst furious or rage moments in my life. So it does sound like Denver was indeed a narcissist. I saw that info from this article:

            Also I found more info on John Lennon. I already knew these before but I thought I would share. I really believe that he was a narcissist.


            Also a lot of Lennon’s songs look like an incoherent word salad such as I am the Walrus. His Bless You song makes me feel nauseous.

            “ I am he as you are he
            As you are me and we are all together
            See how they run like pigs from a gun
            See how they fly
            I’m crying
            Sitting on a cornflake
            Waiting for the van to come
            Corporation tee-shirt
            Stupid bloody Tuesday
            Man, you been a naughty boy
            You let your face grow long
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob
            Mister City Policeman sitting
            Pretty little policemen in a row
            See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky
            See how they run
            I’m crying
            I’m crying
            Yellow matter custard
            Dripping from a dead dog’s eye
            Crabalocker fishwife
            Pornographic priestess
            Boy, you been a naughty girl
            You let your knickers down
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob
            Sitting in an English garden
            Waiting for the sun
            If the sun don’t come
            You get a tan From standing in the English rain
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Expert textpert choking smokers
            Don’t you thing the joker laughs at you
            See how they smile like pigs in a sty
            See how they snied. I’m crying
            Semolina pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower
            Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna
            Man, you should have seen
            Them kicking Edgar Allan Poe
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob”

          9. Whilst Lennon was a narcissist, the song I Am A Walrus is an amalgam of three songs which he was unable to finish and part of it was written under the influence of LSD. It is not a word salad.

          10. Getting There,

            One of the songs that I used to really love when I was young (high school to early 20’s) is Somebody by Depeche Mode. Just like Annie’s Song, I thought Somebody describes how true love is and that song always takes me to a very deep and peaceful place. Now when I hear it, I still love the melody and the voice but the words itself has a different meaning to me now. It’s I want I want. It seems like it was written by a narcissist too.

            “ I want somebody who cares
            For me passionately
            With every thought
            With every breath
            Someone who’ll help me see things
            In a different light
            All the things I detest
            I will almost like
            I don’t want to be tied
            To anyone’s strings
            I’m carefully trying to steer clear of
            Those things”

          11. Hello, Mommypino.

            I have not been fans of either John Lennon or The Beatles. I know some of their famous songs, but I don’t seek out playing any of their music. I don’t get the whole Golden Child versus Scapegoat treatments; it’s wrong.

            I almost wonder if John Denver is that elusive normal. He had his issues but seemed to care deeply about his children and different causes. He was rejected from singing “We are the World” even though he asked to be a part of it; however, there isn’t any record of him slamming the song or the cause it supported. The information came out due to the one he asked sharing it.

            Those words of that Depeche Mode song do sound like what I think a narcissist would want. Maybe that is why HG likes them as their words may connect with him. Do you have any songs now that you think describe love to you?

            It’s interesting how lyrics take a different meaning at different times in life. Ever since I was a young girl, I don’t know why but “Don’t Cry Out Loud” seemed to be my anthem on how to deal and great advice. I listen to it now and think it is fine for me but would not want my son to think these lyrics match how he should deal with things.

          12. GT,

            So many of these lyrics work to reinforce the construct of romantic love, the nature of modern sexual desire/practice, etc.

            That’s kind of why I asked you earlier about why you look for peace/calm/sharing in a song.

            I used to own/listen to so much music w/lyrics when I was a teenager. I knew all the words to every song.

            Then I deliberately quit it all before I was 20. I just had enough of people singing to me how or what to feel, how or what to think.

            And then I met a Somatic narc and started listening again. Grrr…I bought into that crap once more (except for Celine Dion—no joke—can’t believe I was with someone who enjoyed her!).

            Later, with Narcx, the beginning was fantastic. We didn’t listen to music at all, not in the car or in our home. It was just us. We didn’t even watch tv or movies. (While this is how I liked it, I’m sure this was Narcx’s way of focusing all attention on himself and controlling the message.)

            I should have realized that the “relationship” was in trouble when we started putting on tunes while cooking dinner and watching movies after we ate.

            Looking back, I see that, at that point, there was only emptiness. The music and the movies were our way of trying to fill the void, to hold up a construct that we could no longer sustain ourselves—to hold “us” over until Narcx could find and install a new fuel source.

            Now it’s mostly silence again, and I am at peace. If I do listen to music, it’s mostly lyric-less or has lyrics in languages I barely understand.

          13. Mommy Pino:

            A lot of lyrics in Walrus are references to the Alice books. The title itself is from “The Walrus and the Carpenter.”

          14. Hello, Lisk.

            That’s great that you can find peace in silence! I hear often how much more you can connect internally when you remove distractions like music and TV and just let the silence surround you. I have family and friends who feel they connect more with God in the silence. I also enjoy instrumental, mostly classical, music as well as songs in languages I don’t understand.

            My ex also wanted us to share the time talking instead of listening to music or watching a lot of TV. He made comments in the Golden Period and then later when I think he wanted attention. Looking back I had more aggression on the road during those times. It sounds like you are back to a place where you are comfortable, and that’s great!

          15. Thank you for correcting me HG. Honestly I still don’t have a full grasp on what a word salad really is. I just think that when something is incoherent it must be word salad.

          16. Hi Getting There,

            Don’t Cry Out Loud is a beautiful song. It is very powerful and every time I hear it it feels empowering. I love songs that empower. I think that it’s a great advice indeed especially in dealing with narcissists. It resonates to me this way: Don’t cry out loud. Don’t let them see that they got you or that they affected you. Keep it inside until they cannot see you then you can finally let it out but never let them know. And then GOSO.

            I can’t think of a love song that replaced Somebody. I think that with my age now and having kids I am not at the same place I was when I absolutely loved that song because my view on love has changed so much. But Bruno Mars’ Just the Way You Are holds a special place in my heart because that’s what my husband chose for me as a song to be played while I was walking down the aisle on our wedding day and I saw him tear up while having the biggest smile watching me walk with that song playing. Recently my husband keeps playing for me Stu Larsen’s song I Will be Happy and Hopefully You Will Be Too and I love it and think it’s really how we are.

            Different songs resonate with me at different times. I remember I was feeling depressed or maybe I had some PTSD from an event that happened with my mom in my last year in college and I was in a retreat in a monastery (I was in a Catholic school) and the lay minister played Cat Stevens’ song Morning Has Broken and I just bawled and I couldn’t stop crying. It was so cathartic. Especially it was towards the end of the retreat after we have had discussions and reflections about life and right before he played that song he asked us to close our eyes and empty our minds and surrender all of our fears and sorrows to God and just empty our minds of those fears and worries as best as we could and in that silence all of a sudden while our eyes were closed we started hearing the song. It was a very spiritual experience.

          17. Monmypino,

            I don’t receive notifications of comments, so I was just looking at this and saw your comment. I’m sorry.

            That Cat Stevens song is amazing! Some spiritual songs really can be cathartic. I’m sorry that you experienced such pain in your life by your mom. Another song of Cat Stevens that I have learned to like is “Cat’s in the Cradle.”

            I don’t think I know those romantic songs. I tend to change the song if Bruno Mars comes up as I haven’t liked his songs that I have heard through. I will have to look up the ones you mentioned later. Thank you.

          18. No worries Getting There, I don’t always receive notifications on mine too. Sometimes I forget to subscribe after I comment.

            I also like that song. I believe it’s a Harry Chapin song. It has a very sad meaning but a good reminder to all parents. Another Cat Stevens song that I like is Father and Son. I absolutely love the part when his voice has a little crack, “ how can I try to explain..” it’s just so perfectly delivered by him. I didn’t have my dad around growing up but whenever I heard that song I try to imagine my dad saying that to me.

            Another song that has always made me feel emotional when I was in my high school / college and sometimes even made me cry is Vincent (Starry Starry Night) by Don McLean. I have always had a fascination with Vincent Van Gogh and his struggle with his mental health. I love his paintings and the innocence that I can see in them.

          19. Hi Getting There, you were right, Cat Stevens did sing Cat’s in the Cradle and it’s his version of the song that I actually have listened to and not Harry Chapin’s.

          20. Hi Getting There,

            I’m wrong again, apparently it really was Harry Chapin who sang Cat’s in the Cradle and Cat Stevens didn’t cover the song at all.

          21. Hello, Mommpino!
            I thought that was Cat Stevens but you are correct! It’s great to learn new things, so thank you!
            I like the Father and Son song as well! I’m sorry your dad wasn’t around when you were young and when you needed him.

            I was listening to Leonard Cohen today. I love his work. I found it interesting how the discussion with “Annie’s Song” led to me analyzing one of my favorite songs of Cohen’s, “Dance Me To The End of Love.” It is such a beautiful song but I did analyze it. Sadly the writing of the song was inspired by the Holocaust, if I remember correctly. The words are amazing, though, and still one I find romantic in a way.

          22. Hello Getting There, I have never heard of Leonard Cohen before and his song. I listened to it online and it is really interesting. He has a very unique voice. I usually like rock songs and some pop and folk songs too that almost sounds like rock. I also like some Beatles songs but I wouldn’t say that they never produced some crappy songs. Whenever I hear Desperado by Eagles always makes me think of my mom for some reason. I also like the song American Pie but I don’t understand what it means. My husband said that if I grew up her I would understand what that song means. I also like Landslide by Fleetwood Mac just because of her voice. Whenever I’m in a fight against somebody my theme song is Bad by Michael Jackson 😂.

            I also got confused about who sang Cat’s in the Cradle. At first I remembered that it was Harry Chapin because I bought that song from iTunes before for my iPod. But I haven’t listened to my iPod for years and so I looked it up in YouTube and I saw a video that says it was Cat Stevens so I thought that maybe he sang it too but when I listened to it is sounded just like the one that I listened to so I thought that I was wrong. But then I looked it up and apparently the Youtube video is wrong because it is Harry Chapin’s voice. This is one of the instances when we cannot trust the internet lol.

          23. Mommypino,

            I looked up the two songs you had mentioned before. I had heard that Bruno Mars one, sorry! I didn’t recognize the title. The video was fun to watch though. The other one was very romantic! It’s cute that your husband is playing that for you!

            “Desperado” is such a heart breaking song. It’s interesting how much song can connect us to feelings within.
            “American Pie” came out before I was born. It is based on the plane crash that killed multiple rock and roll artists. I don’t understand the words much either even with knowing that. LOL

            Leonard Cohen wrote “Halleluia.” I think that song, whichever lyrics included, is an amazing song that captures so many feelings.

            Can you stay upset with “Bad?” I am bopping my head just thinking of the song.

            I usually like songs others tell me are too sad. I loved “Jar of Hearts” when it came out. It’s taken a different view since finding this site. So much has taken a different view.

          24. Hi Getting There, I was unfamiliar with Leonard Cohen’s version of Hallelujah. I just knew the Jeff Buckley one and I really like that song too. I listened to Leonard Cohen’s rendition and he has an amazing voice but I’m more used to Jeff Buckley’s.

            I was kidding with the Bad. I don’t have a music playing in my head while I’m upset. I would like to think that I’m that cool but we all know that I’m not lol.

            Yes I agree with you. Jar of Hearts totally look like it was written by someone who went GOSO from a narcissist. It’s a perfect song describing what narcissists do. And it’s a very beautiful song. Another song that took on a different view in my mind after Narcsite is Maggie May by Rod Stewart. It’s an upbeat song but it sounds like Maggie May is a narcissist. Also, since Narcsite, the song ‘I’m Not In Love’ by 10cc always makes me think of HG. I really like that song too.

          25. Hi, Mommypino.
            I hope you don’t mind a few off the topic things.

            I saw one of your comments on another thread. I have to admit I am not following the thread so there may be a lot I am missing. I just wanted to let you know that I was such a fan of Dr Carson becoming president. His book was amazing and I do think he is an empath as well!

            Today I thought of “Cat’s in The Cradle.” I took my son to daycare and then I went to work. I wish I could say that I had no choice. That song popped in my head. It really is a good reminder to parents that time with our kids is short.

            Your picture of your dog is so cute!

            LOL on the “Bad” song. I’m sorry I missed that joke.

            I looked up the songs you mentioned and agree that “I’m not in love” sounds like it comes from this blog. I read comments on a video on an Instagram account I follow. It was discussing why men don’t respect and if they ever will. Some of the comments make me wonder if this song is an anthem somewhere.
            “Maggie May” makes me wonder about that line of what we don’t know. I can guarantee that my ex-husband can write about the pain I caused him. I did cause him pain but what will be left out of his story is the full extent of his role. I don’t need or want him to get into that, but I am learning more that I can never fully trust what I am told on what was done by either.

            Jeff Buckley had a great version as does KD Lang and Tori Kelly.

            If I had heard the “Hamilton” music before finding HG, I would have felt sad for all that he went through and how it seemed he tried hard. Now I hear it and think whether he is narcissistic or a narcissist.

            I had to shake my head at myself today. I used to love the song “Someone to Watch Over Me” thinking it was romantic. I heard it today, understood the time it came out, but thought that that was not something I wanted for romance. I can watch over me.

          26. Hello Getting There,

            Cat’s in a Cradle is such a beautiful song. I saw a YouTube video about it and it was from a poem that was written by his wife. He made it into a song after their son was born. I think that loving parents experience guilt and it is a good thing because it shows that we truly want the best for our kids. I believe that it isn’t really the amount of time spent with them but the quality of each time that we spend with them that makes an impact on them. I never saw my dad since I was three and not until I was 26 but home made such an impact on me through his words in his letters. My mom has also made so much impact on me and was almost always on my side until I was 26 and I honestly have always wished that I had more time with just myself or with friends or other people where she wasn’t around and enabled me to have more chance to develop socially by myself. Our kids learn a lot when we are not around but the most important thing is that they always know that when they are back home to us they are always safe and loved unconditionally more than any place in the world. But I totally agree that our time with them is short. This is our chance to spend as much time and create as much memories with them. When they turn 18 it will be their equal prerogative to spend time with us. Right now they can’t run from us lol.

            I agree with Ben Carson. I’m happy to know that we both like him. I have also read his book, I think the title is Gifted Hands. I am so amazed at what he has accomplished given the fact that he came from a very difficult childhood. He also struggled with temper and he was able to overcome that the extreme guilt that he felt (which is why he isn’t a narcissist because he experiences guilt) which caused him to find ways to control his temper, seek God and change the direction of his life by choosing better friends and being more responsible in school. I was very excited when he was leading the polls at one time during the primaries but his standing started to go down when he lost in those states where Ted Cruz cheated him. He was never elected in any office and I wonder if the election process is really hard for Empaths and much more advantageous for Narcissists.

            Don’t worry about missing my joke, most people miss my jokes lol. I’m used to explaining them. 😜

            I have always thought that Someone to Watch Over Me is such a beautiful song but I have never paid attention to the lyrics. Now reading it, I agree with you. It’s actually a very sad situation for anyone to be in. To long for someone who may not even be thinking about us. Just like that song Brandy. I will only put my heart out for the people who choose to be present in my life and I will try my best to be present and show up as much as I can in their lives too.

            That is a really good point about Maggie May and how a lot of times in the narcissist’s point of view, they are the victim and sometimes we just hear their version of the story.

            I don’t know if I will be able to visit here on Christmas but I just want to greet you a Merry Christmas now to be sure. I hope that your Christmas with your son is so full of joy and abundant blessings and love. ❤️🎄🎁

          27. Hi, Mommypino!

            I really want to respond to your comment but I didn’t want to miss a chance to say Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas!!! Thank you for the Christmas wishes! I hope you and your family have a beautiful time together with love and joy as well!! I am blessed that we still communicate here!

            I will respond soon to the rest.
            I’m sorry. I think the NORAD Santa Tracker is going to be the predominant site for this phone today.

          28. Thank you for the greetings and I haven’t checked out the Santa tracker but that sounds like a great idea to do with my kids too! No worries about the response, I totally understand. I want to respond to a lot of your thoughts too including Kim Kardashian as I have had the same thought about her for a while but I just got too busy with the holidays. Have the merriest Christmas!!!😘❤️❤️❤️

          29. Merry Christmas, Mommypino!!

            The tracker was a lot of fun with constant monitoring and games. When my son saw him in a country friends we have originally came from, he had me text them. We did actually call the line for fun. I don’t have a Twitter account but we were able to watch the videos they made on their Twitter. It was great that they were teaching a fact or posting a picture of different places around the world.

            Ben Carson didn’t always say things of which I agree but it is obvious he is caring and wouldn’t base his decisions on the desire to be liked or for the next vote. I wonder if he would have been able to have the parties work harder together instead of what they do now. He became the Secretary of HUD under Trump and mainly stays out of the news. There was a report that a lot of money was spent on furniture and redecorating. It is said that once he found out about it, he stopped it. I don’t see a lot of our politicians doing that. He was investigated and considered to have not done wrong. I know the group that did the investigation and they have no political preferences. I think he would have brought such good and care to the country and how he was with our allies. He had to make hard decisions as a surgeon and then in the administrative role he was in, so I had no doubt he would have been able to handle being Commander of the military. His ability to hold his anger and knows that he doesn’t know everything but is willing to learn and try are positive traits and needed for this country. I hope we get more candidates with his positive traits and then they are actually elected as president.

            I am watching my son right now and can’t believe how fast time is flying. I like how you described the balance using your parents and how they were with you. You are correct it is in the quality versus quantity. I do have an issue staying off the phone when with him. I have different excuses and none of them are good when looking back at them. I think that will be my New Year’s Resolution. I thought it would have had something to do with narcissists but I think this one is more important. Are you ready for a great 2020? This may be your narcissist free year. How does that feel? Are you excited? At peace?

            My ex- husband wouldn’t be wrong in his hurt. I did do things to hurt him. If he wrote a song from that point, I am sure it would be a song many would think “I wouldn’t want someone like her.” That was his perception and his perception is his truth, whether he knows of his narcissism or not. My perception is different. I wonder sometimes how different people see different manipulations. For example if two people on this site was romantically involved with the same narcissist, would they perceive the behaviors the same or so different that maybe there would be a view of different types of narcissism. The narcissist may learn that I am not feeding the victim mentally, so manipulations aren’t that. The next woman in his life may be great with the victim mentally, so then she recognizes the victim behavior when she comes to this site.

            The song “Bad Liar” by Imagine Dragons is a great song. The lyrics give me the impression that he isn’t a narcissist because he won’t lie to her to keep her and that he knows he can’t give her what she wants. I then wonder what it is she wants. Is it like a narcissist and wants what no one can provide or a normal person wants. What’s interesting is that I think he suffers from anxiety or some thing. I wonder how many writers have a different situation than narcissism or empathy and writes from that, but it is taken another way.

            I hope you have a great time today! We are having friends over so it should be more fun!

          30. Thank you Getting There!! We had a great Christmas. It was laid back. We were just playing with the gifts that we got all day. We got the kids some magnetic tiles so we have been building stuff with them all day. I got my husband a vinyl player so he is finally able to play his old vinyl records. I found out today that he owns the Magical Mystery Tour album that includes I Am the Walrus song. He is a big Beatles fan. I like a lot of their songs but he likes all of them!

            The Santa tracker is absolutely cool. I really like how they give facts about the different places that Santa has been passing through. It’s a really cool way to introduce kids to the different countries and landmarks around the world.

            I agree with what you think about Ben Carson. He is a genuinely good person. His control of temper is both an advantage and a disadvantage for him in politics. Some people who doesn’t like him or agree with him can spin that as a weakness even though it’s actually strength and decency.

            That sounds like a great resolution. Mine is spending more time connecting with relatives and friends. I have been obsessed or addicted over the illusion of competition between me and the familial or platonic narcissists around me who have been one upping me and for a very long time I have actually spent more time on them than with the really good people who hasn’t brought negativity to me. It was either I have been spending time proving to them that I matter, I’m good, I’m not what they say I am, etc. I want to focus on myself now, my family and the good people around me. I’m also getting better and better at knowing what kind of people are incompatible with me versus the types of people that I am able to stay friends with for years. And also what types of personalities seem to hate me so I don’t even take those people personally anymore (zero impact!). It’s amazing how more and more logical my approach is now becoming. So now that I can tell who the good people are, I want to show up for them more and be there for them more. I am very optimistic about it for the new year and I am so excited. I don’t have to wonder anymore so I can focus on more productive things in my life.

            Narcissists can bring the worst in us and with their black and white thinking, it’s usually the part about us that they remember and tell everyone. I love your outlook about his perception and truth. I learned that from HG too and I think that they can perceive all they want whatever they want to perceive but it wouldn’t stop me from having a wonderful life.

            I have to say that your situation is very challenging as your son is still young and therefore your ex husband is still in the picture. My husband went through that and it has made him tougher. The manipulations that they do which affects the child is very upsetting. I am amazed that you remain an amazingly positive person. ❤️

            I will write the second part of my reply tomorrow. I just want to get this one sent now. 💕

          31. “ I wonder sometimes how different people see different manipulations. For example if two people on this site was romantically involved with the same narcissist, would they perceive the behaviors the same or so different that maybe there would be a view of different types of narcissism. The narcissist may learn that I am not feeding the victim mentally, so manipulations aren’t that. The next woman in his life may be great with the victim mentally, so then she recognizes the victim behavior when she comes to this site.”

            That is a very interesting question Getting There. I am thinking about my mom as she is the narcissist that I know the most which is why I always use her to analyze narcissists. I don’t think that she had the ability to shift what kind of narcissist she was to match the type of empath she was ensnaring. I think that she was stuck with who she was and how her narcissism manifested that she was able to ensnare certain types of empaths but not different types of empaths. But of course she was a Lesser too. I thought that she was a Lower Lesser but after reading HG’s Understanding Wounding I now believe that she was a Middle Lesser. She was also an Overwhelming Angel which HG said Lower Lessers are not Overwhelming Angels. She was a Victim narcissist and she used martyrdom a lot. She was able to attract my dad who had a lot of savior mentality (he was president of an organization that saved historical landmarks and here in our county and also the environment). He encouraged her to develop and educate herself but she was only interested in him sending her money for the rest of her life. She used sex to attract him which happened to work on him because he was married to a MR Cerebral who stopped having sex with him for almost twenty years before he met my mom. But it was his ego of being able to save her and improve her as a person that got him really hooked because he felt needed by her. I don’t think that she would have been able to attract a Magnet Empath. As a Geyser, I could be attracted to a Victim but I will probably grow tired of them really quickly. The only thing that my mom was able to change while she was seducing my dad was the way she dressed. She was beautiful and stylish when she was seducing him. He was a director of operations of an international shipping company so she needed to mirror the way that people he interact with dressed up. If you see their pictures together you would not have been able to guess that she is a Lesser. But she was still a Victim because she always told him how she grew up poor and didn’t have this and that and she wish she was smarter but she wasn’t able to afford to go to school because they were so poor etc. She has never done this and that and has never owned this and that and my dad bought her all kinds of stuff and bought gifts to our relatives which fueled her. It was crazy how he was totally manipulated. And she was like that all her life, a Victim narcissist. And she was like that to everyone, to me, to our neighbors and to our relatives. My Elite MR sister was the same, her manipulations were the same to everyone although the ‘reality gap’ seemed to be a unique situation where her Victimhood became very prominent. But for the majority, her intelligence and looks were her prominent features whereas my mom’s were being a victim of her circumstances.

            I agree with you that I also think that artists in general usually are not normal people and it is not only narcissism but they can have anxiety or other factors affecting their art or what they express. I believe Van Gogh May have been a Borderline, especially with what he did to his ear.

          32. Oh Mommypino! I’m sorry! I was not implying that we were going to have more fun that what you are doing… just more fun on top of the fun of Christmas morning! I’m sorry!

          33. Hello Getting There,

            I have been rereading the comments and trying to figure out what is referenced in this comment for your apology. I couldn’t figure it out. But please know that you have nothing to apologize for or worry about as I have honestly not noticed anything. I’m very happy that you had a wonder Christmas with your son and friends as you deserve nothing less. ❤️

          34. Hello, Mommypino.

            That sounds like a great relaxing Christmas! Those magnetic tiles are fun to play with and build. That’s funny that you discovered he had the record of the song shortly after talking about it here. How romantic to play records together! Christmas was good with us. My son loves his gifts and had fun with friends that evening. We watched “It’s A Wonderful Life” and I thought of you in watching what a great man George Bailey was.

            That sounds like a wonderful new year’s resolution you have! What a great way to look at the healthy and joyful! I’m glad you know you don’t have to show others, who will never care, that you matter. You do matter! You have so much good in you, and some just can’t recognize and don’t deserve the gifts you have. I can’t wait to hear how it goes if you are willing to share.

            I think the lessons the children were being taught were the best part! I want my son to remember there is a whole world of people and different cultures. I can’t wait to travel with him to other countries to see for himself.

            I am usually impressed with anyone who can control their temper. My second narcissist is brilliant at that. I wish I could study that ability and then apply it. LOL
            I started to wonder if people are starting to become convinced that only narcissistic individuals will be good for the presidency, then I remembered about the debate between JFK and Nixon and the reaction of just the looks after the debate. I wonder how Washington would feel if he could see how politics turned out.

            I’m glad you are alive! I’m sorry your dad experienced all of that, though. It sounds like your dad tried to help the world and your mom. I hope he found peace from the different narcissists in his life in the last few years. It sounds like you inherited the caring side from him. I understand what you are saying about your mom and sister in that their manipulations remained consistent while they had the ability to alter their initial impression to attract. It really does seem chameleon like when I think of how your mom was in that she can alter the outside but the internal never changes. What about from another view: Let’s say that one empath can recognize pity play so they can say that someone is a victim narcissist; whereas, someone doesn’t recognize pity plays but what they see is the silent treatments. Would then they both come on and one would describe a possible UL and another would describe a possible MM?

            It has been easier on my son and mutual friends that my ex- husband and I can be around each other. When he goes for the negative fuel, I usually brush it off, make a joke, or roll my eyes in my head. I was annoyed at something my parents did this Christmas that I felt disrespected my divorce and commented as such. Then I realized that I can’t expect them to respect it if I don’t act like a normal divorce. That was very nice of you to say that about me! I try to be positive. I do get upset sometimes, but I try to not let him see it. I like that your husband grew stronger in his experience; it gives me hope.
            My ex-husband likes to be a good guy, so there are times where he seems to be a better person than I. In my opinion, if it benefits my son in a positive way, then he can look like a saint to all.

          35. Hello, Mommypino.

            I know I wrote a long comment earlier today, but I wanted to share with you something I decided this evening and am very excited about!

            I was listening to “Ti Amo” by Laura Brannigan and the words led me to think about my second narcissist and how I used to feel. Which then led me to think about a compliment I received from my therapist in regards to him and in regards to OCD traits. Which ultimately led me to the thought about how I am the one causing work to overwhelm me when I have a team who ask me to trust them and give them more. I try to explain that I do trust them but I have the need to do it all myself, which then impacts both work and my time with my son.
            Things with my traits were different when in the beginning, middle, and active end of the relationships with each narcissist as those situations allowed for my mind to concentrate on other stuff.
            Tonight I decided that I am going to actually work on those OCD traits! I bought some books and am looking online for a support group where I can stay anonymous. I will continue working on them professionally but feel these are positive steps forward in other ways!

            I hope you don’t mind that I shared that with you.

          36. Hello Getting There, thank you for sharing this with me! I’m very excited for you and this would be an amazing thing to start for the New Year! I am very happy as this signals that you have already made so much progress with regards to the narcissistic parenting entanglement you had and is now ready to tackle the other aspects of your life. Your focus is now back to you and your son and the distraction of the narcissist is not at the forefront anymore. I’m very excited and happy for you and I’m very optimistic about what you are planning to do.

            I have been thinking that another resolution that I want to do is focus on my self development and finish the list that I have been wanting to do but haven’t finished. I want to get them done this coming year. I wanted to get started on my career but the jobs are all at least an hour away and just thinking about not being able to see them because of the long commute, an hour becomes two hours during rush hour made me not want to go back to work. I have to think of what I really want and maybe it’s just going to be time to improve my credentials and skills instead while I teach my kids at home. Or maybe I can get a part time job (twice a week). It’s something that I have to explore but I’m so excited and confident about myself now that I can finally focus more. ❤️❤️❤️

          37. Hello, Mommypino.

            I just saw your message about my comment. I was clarifying about my last paragraph on the one I posted on Christmas which included having friends over. After I posted it, I realized that it could be construed in a not good way and not in the way I had intended. I worried and wanted to make sure you knew I didn’t mean it in the not good way. I’m glad you didn’t! I’m sorry you spent so much time trying to understand what I was referencing.

            I hope you are having a great weekend!

          38. Hi Getting There, no worries!! What you wrote was perfect and if I misconstrued it it would be on me. ❤️💕

            I hope that your weekend is also wonderful!! ❤️

          39. That’s exciting, Mommypino!! I’m so happy and thrilled for you that you are feeling confident about yourself and that you are ready to explore your options! It’s great that you are on the positive path!
            That commute sounds horrible, and I understand you not wanting to be away from your kids that long for traffic. Is there something you have dreamed of doing? Do you plan on homeschooling? I have multiple friends who are part- time and they love it. They feel it gives them a balance for themselves.

            Thank you for your excitement! Your comment about it meaning that I am ready to move forward and away from the narcissism has given me such hope today! My pastor feels that I have not dealt with what happened in my marriage and the divorce. Maybe he is right that I want to move forward from both the experience with my ex- husband and the man that came after him without fully processing it all. I don’t want to keep living in the past when nothing can be done with the past. I want to learn from it and move forward to be a better me and a better mom.

            I think moving forward sounds wonderful and the best way to start a new decade! Here’s to a more positive and healthy 2020: 🥂🥂

          40. Thank you Getting There! Cheers to our new positive year in 2020!! 🥂

            I’m not sure if I understood what your pastor really meant. He probably means well but maybe it’s a case of being misguided or uninformed about narcissists. You have done what you can do by being here getting the best information that you can possibly get. There is nothing else about your past that you can deal with except to understand how and why narcissists behave the way they do and how and why you get entangled with them. Everything else is beyond your control because no one can control narcissists. Not everybody can understand that though. And I used to be like your pastor. I used to say that no matter what couples should do their best to work out their marriage and not give up on it because they made a vow. I used to say that even if I had an option I still would have preferred to grow up with my mom than be taken by a child protective agency and be adopted by someone else because nobody else can love me like my real mom. Sometimes I cringe at the thought of what I used to believe. HG has a series of articles about misguided pieces of advice that can actually be very hurtful instead of helpful. You are very gracious to your pastor and yet you are also strong that you remained focused on what you know is best for you in spite of hearing his opinion. You are doing the right thing by moving forward and focusing on yourself and your son. There is nothing else that you can do about the past and you have learned everything that you need to learn about the narcissist from here.

            I think that either l a part time job or a local job is the best option for me. If I have a nine to five job in the closest cities like Sacramento or Folsom, I will have to leave the house by 7:30 am. Kids wake up at 6:30. Then I will get home by about 7:00 pm and kids start getting ready for bed at 8:00pm. So for five days a week I will only see them for about three hours which involves getting ready for work (for me) and school for them and getting ready for bed. The thought is not fun for me especially since I’ve been so spoiled being with them so much. If I can get a local job, I can do full time but accounting jobs where I live are so few. The only ones that hire for the positions applicable to my education are the two casinos here and the county office and the competition for them is really high. So I think that possible option for me is a part time job or get my CPA while I’m a stay at home mom. The positive side of getting a job is we will have a more affordable health care and I will have my own money that I can spend guilt free. I might also be able to finally have therapy or professional psychological help which I have never had in my life if the health care will cover it. My husband said that I can do it now if I really need it and he will just pay for it but the thought of how much it will be makes me feel bad so I never do it. Also I have a tendency to recover really fast that one day I am so upset about something like it’s the end of the world and wanting to go on a therapy then the next day I’m not upset about it anymore and I don’t need any help anymore. That’s probably how I was able to survive the many chaos that I grew up in. I have somehow learned to recuperate emotionally really fast. That is one of the traits of a Geyser in HG’s article that I can relate to the most because even though I can be animated, I’m really not histrionic or hysterical. But it would be interesting if I could talk to a therapist about myself and see what things I need to work on about myself. I also need to get experience in my field as I am not getting any younger. Although I try to tell myself that a lot of people have started their careers at a more advanced age and are happy about it. It’s just a matter of what choice I will make and what is more important for me.

            About my kids, they will both go to public school. My son already is a kindergarten. I just like to supplement their learning with fun educational ways and they seem to enjoy it and absorb so much from it. So far I think a part time job really is what will work for me.

          41. Hello Getting There! I just want to wish you a Happy New Year one last time in 2019! I’m so excited for our plans for 2020 and you have inspired me to do my resolution and have a fresh start. I can’t wait for us to share our progress with each other. Much love to you💞. All the best for us in 2020!! 🥂❤️

          42. Thank you, Mommypino!

            We are going to have a great year and new decade!

            I think my pastor is the type that feels that you need to work out internal feelings, and I think he feels I am burying my feelings. You are right that there are many who give advice about marriage not understanding narcissism. I too used to be like that and used to believe the same. It went against an internal belief to choose divorce. I’m at peace with my choice. After my marriage, when people told me about advice they gave to a married person, I would remind them that no one knows what really happens behind closed doors. HG’s articles hit home on the bad advice given.

            You had the right to believe that a mom is supposed to love you fully, support you, and have your back. It’s understandable how you learned to cope and built your own way of moving forward each time. It’s strength for you. I have friends who were each telling me about their matrinarcs. Like you, they didn’t become like their moms and are wonderful and loving moms. I think your strength in moving forward helped you to not allow you to continue what happened with you and what happened with your mom before when her parents didn’t protect her.

            Therapy with a good therapist can be a way to vent freely, a place to have your thoughts and beliefs challenged in a good way, and tools to help in dealing with a situation.

            It’s funny how much I now tie to what I am learning here that has nothing to do with narcissism or empaths. Many say that the best way to overcome the OCD traits is to allow yourself to feel the anxiety or worry that comes if you don’t do what it wants you to do. My first thought cannot be expressed here, but my second thought was wondering if this is similar to asking a narcissist to go without any kind of fuel for a day. I know the outcome would not be an overcome of narcissism but I wonder if the internal feelings are alike. Also I found books on anxiety. While I do not suffer from anxiety disorder, I do experience anxiety and worry from the OCD traits, so I thought these books would have useful information on how to experience the anxiety without giving in. One book I found stated that studies are finding that anxiety can be passed down in the family, not because of a genetic component but because of what is taught verbally and non- verbally due to a traumatic experience. It said that the original experience could have occurred generations ago but the reaction was passed down in how parents talk, avoid, act, etc. It made me wonder about those who have experienced the abuse of a narcissist parent or significant other or sibling and then what is passed on and in what way.

            I can understand the balance of having money for the family and the future with a little extra for other items.
            That’s great that you are providing fun education at home too!! Kindergarten is a fun year. I hope he is enjoying it!

            What is the accounting industry like with companies hiring people to work at home? I have seen different industries do more of this but was not sure about accounting.

          43. Hi Getting There, I missed this one. I didn’t get a notification.

            “ One book I found stated that studies are finding that anxiety can be passed down in the family, not because of a genetic component but because of what is taught verbally and non- verbally due to a traumatic experience. It said that the original experience could have occurred generations ago but the reaction was passed down in how parents talk, avoid, act, etc. It made me wonder about those who have experienced the abuse of a narcissist parent or significant other or sibling and then what is passed on and in what way.”

            I have been reflecting on that about my family history too. My grandmother who was too timid to protect my mom was also removed of her power when she was young although she didn’t become a narcissist. My grandmother was 14 when her parents decided to have her marry my grandfather who was a 36 year old widower who didn’t have kids. My grandmother told me that her parents did that because my grandfather was a good man (he really was) and she was the ugliest out of all the daughters so they didn’t think that any guy would really fall in love with her. I can just imagine what that has taught her. If she couldn’t fight for herself, how will she learn to fight for her kids? My husband and I have been catching each other with some of our toxic parenting behaviors that we grew up in and were natural to us. I have been guilty of triangulation by telling my son for example to look at how his friend is eating meat that’s why he’s not skinny. I immediately felt guilt after I said that and seeing his face was really painful for me so I never did that again. Some things my husband caught me do and explained to me how it is not helpful to the kid. I do the same thing with him. My problem is that I can be manipulative which is I have gotten more aware of and have been trying to avoid. My husband’s problem is that he is too authoritative like if our son wouldn’t eat the food my husband would force the food into our son’s mouth which I have objected to right away and it made him get mad at me although he calmed down within hours. I did get my way to not force feed but he brings it up whenever our kid wouldn’t eat something which I just ignore. We are far from perfect parents but we both love our kids and really want the best for them and are both willing to improve for them.

            “ Many say that the best way to overcome the OCD traits is to allow yourself to feel the anxiety or worry that comes if you don’t do what it wants you to do. My first thought cannot be expressed here, but my second thought was wondering if this is similar to asking a narcissist to go without any kind of fuel for a day. ”

            I totally agree with your thoughts, and I’m sure even the first one. Whenever I see comments here telling HG to change or to have empathy or things that are obviously counter to what being a narcissist is, I just shake my head. Sometimes ideas come to people who don’t have a lot of real knowledge and then all of a sudden they think that their little idea holds the key to everything that everybody else hasn’t figured out. I’m glad that you are doing it the way that feels the best for you. I think that coping is unique for everybody. I think that it’s good that you picked out those books that you know will help you with your OCD.

            I would love to work at home eventually. But I will need to have experience before I can get jobs like that. But that is actually an advantage with accounting. There are companies where I only have to show up periodically as long as I get the job done at home. Right now I have decided to take the CPA exam this year instead of working. I can still teach the kids in the afternoon and study in the mornings while my daughter is in daycare. After I pass three sections I will get a part time job and think of moving my daughter to a private preschool part time also and home school her part time.

          44. Hello, Mommypino! It is almost midnight where I live and 2020 is almost here! I hope you and your family are having a wonderful evening and will have a beautiful New Year’s Day! Thank you for your sweet wishes!
            I went to a wonderful concert tonight. During it, I realized that 10 years ago tonight, I was married and didn’t know if I would have a child. Here I am a very fast decade later with an amazing son and an ex- husband. LOL What does this decade have in store? I saw your message and you are correct this new year is our fresh start! I am so excited about our resolutions and us sharing also!!

            In the days since I started reading for my resolution, I have realized a few things about me that need to be healed. I think you and I both have the strength for healing this year! And you with your year of confidence and strengthening friendships with those who only bring out good and not headache or heartache is just great! I can’t wait to hear about the job opportunities and all of 2020!

            Happy New Year, my friend!!

          45. Thank you Getting There. What a beautiful thought you had during the concert about your son. They are indeed a precious gift and I’m very happy for you that you have him. And he is very blessed to have you too!
            I love the song Some Nights by Fun. It has a part in it that says:

            My heart is breaking for my sister and the con that she called love
            But when I look into my nephew’s eyes
            Man you wouldn’t believe, the most amazing things that can come from
            Some terrible lies !
            Some terrible lies !

            Last Christmas when my husband was playing his vinyl records at the turntable that I got for him he was telling me stories about where he was in his life when he got those records and where he was playing them and it felt like I was watching a movie of his life. It is amazing how music is like a bookmark in our lives. Our conversation got directed towards his mom and how she was unhappy from her marriage and how she had so much potential but in her loving sister’s opinion she had a wasted life because of her marriage. But my husband said that she didn’t have a wasted life because she had them and she was very loved. He said that when she died and he was cleaning her stuff he saw her hidden love letters from a guy she had an affair with. He said that it was weird that he actually felt happy for her that this guy made her happy. He never told his siblings about it though and threw away all of the evidence to protect her legacy to his siblings. But he was glad that he found those letters and learned that her life wasn’t as miserable as he thought it was and he was glad that it wasn’t his other siblings who found them. I think that more than we realize what our kids want the most for us is for us to be happy and I’m so happy and glad that you followed that path that will lead you to a happy life.

            Happy 2020 and I agree with you that we both have the strength now to heal this year. Thank you for your friendship and you are so encouraging to me and just a complete positive influence to me. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

          46. Hello, Mommypino!

            You are so sweet! Thank you! You have been the same for me! You are a great friend! I asked HG to let me follow him on Instagram for a moment, just long enough to find you and request to follow you. I don’t think I should have shared my plan with him. LOL Then again, I haven’t tried to request to follow him yet, so maybe it would work.

            That was loving of your husband to destroy those! I know what society thinks of affairs but to know that she found a love and a piece of happiness is beautiful! I agree with you about kids. I was advised to stay with my ex for my son. What I wanted to say to that person is that I will never want my son’s shoulders weighed down because he believes that he carried the weight of unhappy parents because they chose to stay together. Kids want a loving home. I saw a video about a study on children based on how parents are to each other. It found that the child lives in high levels of stress and low self esteem when parents are fighting a lot; more so than divorced parents who don’t put their children in the middle of the continued drama.

            I have to tell you how wonderful you have helped me so far. Although today I am not feeling well, I am mentally and emotionally on a high! You inspired me to take a few days off this holiday to be with my son and I didn’t look at work once, and even told those who contacted me that I would talk to them when I return. That is big for me. I am stressing about the repercussions but thankful that I chose quality time with my son. I signed up for a diet even though the first day was not successful. They can’t expect new year’s day to count, right? LOL
            I have been so inspired by you choosing healthy relationships in your life that I sent a goodbye text to someone and this time I haven’t worried if I caused hurt. I saw your comments on another thread. How you are handling it shows how much you are working to put your resolution into practice.
            This blog is HG’s legacy. Within his legacy, you are inspiring and supportive and compassionate and intelligent! You can see that others see that by the comments of support and defense of you; you can see it in the likes on your comments; and more importantly you can just see it in you because it’s true: “To thine own self be true.”
            I hope one day you can see certain comments or references to certain threads and be able to laugh or shake your head and then move on to the next one without the desire to respond in any capacity.

          47. Thank you so much Getting There. You are so sweet as well.

            You are absolutely right that it is far better for a child to grow up where there is less stress. I have read from Brain Rules for Babies and Whole Brain Child that a safe environment helps with the formation of a well integrated brain and it also increases the IQ. Having kids grow up in a home where they’re constantly in a fight or flight mode is bad for them in many ways. In the same way, not giving them consistent rules and spoiling them also make kids feel unsafe because they start to feel that they have to figure out for themselves what is appropriate or not because their parents just let them do everything. That is consistent with HG’s explanation on how being a Golden Child is also being subjected to abuse and can also create a narcissist.

            I am so happy that I have been a positive influence to you as well as you have been to me. I have come a long way ever since I found Narcsite. I still have a long ways to go. Right now I am struggling with the approach of how to be able to maintain boundaries and still remain kind, where to draw the line where I am not a pushover that people can trample on nor a mean person. And that will be part of my consultation with HG. I have been thinking at my husband’s drama free life and I think that it is mainly because he chooses the people he gets involved with, not in a judgmental way necessarily but he just knows which kinds of people works out with the kind of person he is. When I was new here at Narcsite, my readings gave me the green light to let go of a group of friends where two are narcissists and the rest are normals and one empath. The Empath is still my friend but I am not part of the group anymore. I sent them a goodbye text as well and my Normal husband said that you’re too nice to send them a goodbye text and explain why. I just stop talking to people like that until they get it. So with the most recent, I did my husband’s approach of just disengaging without explaining and now I am wondering if that was a bad idea. I will talk to HG about it. But I think my biggest problem is reacting. Your last sentence is absolutely spot on. Another difference between me and my husband is he will not react unless it was in his face. If he reacts, his reactions are very swift. So basically I still have a long way to go but I have also come a long way ever since I have read HG’s work. Thank you so much for the kind words to me. You are such an amazingly kind friend as well and you are one of the kindest people here in the blog. ❤️

          48. Hi Getting There, I forgot to say this about your worries about repercussions at work. I don’t know if this will help at all and you probably have heard of this already. But I have read somewhere where she found out that if you give it time, problems tend to fix their own. For example she said that she decided not to respond right away with the emails from her coworkers asking for help. She decided to wait for a little bit. I can’t remember how long. But she said when she got back to them, a big majority of the problems that they needed her help with already got fixed like they figured it out without her help. So she said that doing that reduced her stress and workload. I don’t know if it will help in your case but it’s just an idea that I remembered.

          49. Hi Getting There, I just want you to know that I wrote replies for you but I’m not sure if they are still in moderation or if it didn’t go through. I just want to let you know that I didn’t ignore your message. If it doesn’t show up by tomorrow I will just try again. ❤️

          50. There are many comments in moderation owing to my recent absence over the holiday period. Patience is required.

          51. Hi Getting There, I hope that your week is going great. There is just one thing that I want to add regarding my resolution for 2020. I want to be more intuitive and follow where I am being led. I don’t know if you are spiritual or not but I think that there is a high chance that you are so you will probably understand what I am trying to say. I feel that throughout my life there have been moments when I had these intuitive feeling which I trusted and followed and it has led me to do things that I am thankful for. This involves all aspects of my life including friendships and self advancement. I trust my gut and I pray about it and it almost feels like I was being guided. It happened when I joined and won some competitions in school, when I befriended my two best friends from 2nd yr in h.s. which now I know are empaths and are still my friends, when I processed my US citizenship and yes, even when I found Narcsite. Every time I do that is when I did somet?hing that was highly fulfilling and self defining and life changing. And I noticed that every time I am distracted and not listening to my intuitions I missed out in opportunities and get railroaded. I wonder if it is an empath thing Getting There. Do you sometimes feel that way too?

          52. Hi, Mommypino.

            Thank you for letting me know. That is sweet!

            I also worry that I exit out before it is “posted” and lost. I then forget some of the articles I comment on, like one today where I commented to Whitney. I wish there was a tracker for quick reference. LOL

            I saw that you are driving to spend time with a previous teacher and friend. That sounds like fun!

          53. Hi HG, I understand, I was just worried a little bit but I totally understand that you are an army of one.

            Hi Getting There, I worry about that too. I used to be able to see my comments that are pending for moderation but WordPress May have changed that now or maybe my phone browser is not compatible with it like my phone browser is not letting me Like comments but I can Like comments if I use my laptop. My internet here can also be unreliable as we live in a rural area.

            Thank you for asking, I had a lot of fun seeing them. I’m glad that I went. I knew my schoolmate by her name and face but I couldn’t remember which school we were schoolmates because I transferred schools almost every year. I had five different schools during my six years in grade school and two schools during my four years in high school. I believe that they have now added more years in grade school in my home country but during my time it was only up to sixth grade and we begin our teenage years in high school. We are usually 16 yrs old when we go to college. The reason I transferred a lot was because my mom but I behaved well in all of the schools that I went to. As we talked, it brought back a lot of fun memories. I did enjoy my childhood in spite of my mom. I loved school very much. I finally remember that I was in the same school bus (it was actually a Filipino jeepney) with that school mate and I remember that when the school jeep arrives at her house I always thought that her house was nice especially during Christmas when it was full of lights. She lives in Phoenix now and is a doctor of family medicine. She’s married now too but she also has personal problems. We all agreed that we all carry a cross in one form or another. I was wrong about my teacher, she lives here in the US with her teenage twins but her husband was not able to come with them. She said that he is scared of moving to a different country but his papers are ready, he just wouldn’t process it. She has been here for four years already. I have to say she looks gloomy and home sick. She always video call her husband but she hasn’t been back to the Philippines ever since she got here. We were able to make her smile when we talked about our school and the other teachers. I asked about my home teacher and she mentioned with a smile that she remembers that I was my home teacher’s favorite always talking about me in the faculty room. It made me happy because I really liked my home teacher too and I do remember her always being sweet to me and noticing a lot of what I did (both good and bad lol). I wish I could see her again too. It’s really fun and almost feels surreal to visit with people from your past. I always do it whenever I can. It is my way of keeping myself grounded as well.

          54. Hello, Mommypino!

            Thank you very much for the compliments!

            I’m glad you will be consulting with HG! I have no doubt he will be able to help you with finding that balance. It really is a balance to know that you are worthy of boundaries and standards for yourself and being willing to maintain them. I know you can do it and you are worth it! I will admit that I am bad at it. I read a book called “Boundaries” and that helped for a couple of months. I have no doubt HG will help you with a longer term solution.
            It must be nice to be like your husband in being able to just walk away and feel his actions state what he wants. I am like you in saying goodbye and feeling badly if I don’t. I listen to this guy on Instagram who gives dating advice for alpha females. He told of a story of a woman who went to her boyfriend’s to surprise him with a gift of a game he wanted. She used her key and when she went in, she saw him asleep in bed with his ex. She didn’t say anything, left the game on the counter, and went no contact HG-style. I can’t imagine how different that would have gone down if she were like me instead. It’s interesting how much respect I have for her but have such an inability to do it when it comes to someone who was supposed to be close. The same guy posted a video on New Year’s day that addressed three ways of wasting time. His second point said that people have to earn the privilege to be your acquaintance. The me before would have thought “what the heck! That is mean!” Now I logically understand his point; although, not emotionally. This is exciting that you will be working with HG on this!

            That sounds like a good homecoming! It’s great that you could all meet up even without remembering who beforehand. It sounded like she really needed that time. The romantic in me wished that love could inspire her husband to move here to be with her and their children. The realist in me understands that sometimes there are other psychological points which can be more powerful than love if allowed. I hope that they are able to reunite soon! Being a single mom of two teenagers in a different country, wow! Thank goodness the three of you found each other to find relief from those crosses. That’s an awesome discovery that you were highly respected and liked by the teacher you liked the most! Moving isn’t easy for children, and to move every year like you did must have been very stressful and hard to learn to be willing to settle. Everything you share, though, shows that you found a way not only to survive but to excel no matter what your mom did to you. You are such a strong person! I moved a little as a child. It was before the social media days, so I lost friends in life. I often wonder if that plays a role in my need for closure and saying “goodbye.”

            Thank you so much for sharing about your memory of the school jeep and the Christmas lights! Also thank you for sharing about the school system; I love learning about about other places in the world. 16 years old and college?! That seems young but I am sure the schools prepare you well.

            As more people are having less children, I wonder if there is an increase in Golden Children. With my son being an only child, it is hard not to treat him like what I understand is how a Golden Child is treated.

            Thank you for the tip for work. That’s great that your friend allowed herself to find ways to relieve stress at work! Those little steps make big differences. I need to allow myself to continue to take those steps. People at work try to help me by telling me that if I die that night, the work will still get done by others. That doesn’t relieve stress or make me feel good, but it’s true. LOL

            I can’t wait to hear the little and big victories you will have!

          55. Thank you Getting There for your lovely messages. I didn’t get notified of your reply to me on the other thread but I got notified of your reply to Whitney so from clicking that I saw your reply to me and I haven’t read it yet as my kids have been sick last week and I last weekend but I will be catching up now as I’m already feeling well.

            I agree with you on boundaries. Thank you for your support. For me I have strong boundaries when it comes to romantic relationships but I suck when it comes to family and friends. I can see myself doing the same thing as that woman in your story to a romantic partner especially when it is that blatant but when it comes to family I am guilty of repeatedly trying to fix the relationship or trying a different approach. I would disengage after a threshold of bullshit was reached but I get hoovered again when I am able to give myself a different perspective or an idea of a different approach comes to me. Too much optimism is my problem. I used optimism to cope and survive in an almost barren desert like childhood from my mom and now it’s hard to control that optimism. But a lot of the knowledge from HG has really helped me so much to make it more logical because it’s really simple: they will never change.

            As for having to earn acquaintance, that sounds like my husband but he doesn’t say it explicitly. He would probably think that that statement is even arrogant. But the statement shows in his actions. As for me, I am the same as you. I welcome everyone to be my acquaintance even though I have a few friends that have a special spot but they didn’t earn it. I don’t like the way it makes me feel to think that people has to earn anything from me. For me it’s either I’m compatible or not compatible with someone. My friendship is not a price. It’s not like an audition.

            I was thinking the same thing as your romantic side about my teacher and I talked to my husband about it. I told him I don’t understand why her husband stayed and my husband said that I should try to look at the husband’s perspective why she left without him. It seems like a real gray area. If I was the husband I would follow them in a heartbeat but my husband said that not everybody are the same. For some people moving to a different country is really scary or maybe he’s really attached to his country and life there or he is worried that he doesn’t have the skills required to adapt that he will just be a burden to them. It does seem like a very hard situation for both of them.

            “ I moved a little as a child. It was before the social media days, so I lost friends in life. I often wonder if that plays a role in my need for closure and saying “goodbye.””

            I think it could be part of it but I think it is mostly because you are an empath and you are very kind. There’s this book, Dare to Lead and one of my most memorable lines from the book is, “Clarity is Kindness”. It’s so true and is why I think empaths have a tendency to over-explain things or clarify etc. because we don’t want our actions to cause confusion and hurt for other people. But I think the very key is what HG has said, the normals have a smaller radius. So for my husband, he can avoid a friend without saying goodbye but not his family. He always explains to me everything that he does even when I don’t ask and I never have to wonder. But he doesn’t think that he owes a friend an explanation I think mainly because he just thinks that they have separate lives. He doesn’t expect an explanation from them either. He doesn’t expect much from other people. So personally I think that you are just that way mostly because you are an empath.

            “ As more people are having less children, I wonder if there is an increase in Golden Children. With my son being an only child, it is hard not to treat him like what I understand is how a Golden Child is treated.”

            I’m 💯 sure that your son is not being treated like a Golden Child because you are very empathic. It is different to absolutely love and cherish your child than when a narcissist parent treats one as a Golden Child. Narcissists are not capable of loving their kids so even a Golden Child doesn’t feel ‘unconditional love’ from them. It is a manipulation actually. Narcissists use the Golden Child to serve their purposes. For example John Lennon used his Golden Child from Yoko Ono to triangulate his older son by showing his older son that he loves the younger son much more than him. Lennon was not an aware narcissist so he didn’t know what he was doing. But he was almost rationalizing his meanness to his older son by showing that his younger son is innately superior than his older son. But he never loved his Golden Child. A Golden Child also feels this pressure to please the narc parent whether it’s in performing well at something or obeying them without any questions. So it also sucks to be a narcissist’s Golden Child even though they seem to get a lot of privileges from their narc parents. Your son is so amazingly lucky because you love him unconditionally. ❤️

  16. Abort! Abort! Abort! Time for a Spring Cleaning of the mind, to abort this madness that many of us have been programmed with, especially in the West, including North America. How easy many of us were to bait by hungry fishers of love and empathy. And, many times with weak bait and weak hooks. And if perchance we were not baited enough or timely enough, many of us threw our owns selves, onto the vicious hooks, hoping to be pulled completely into the world of our programing. But, that world is not there, and we end up here to earn about a cleaning service..

Vent Your Spleen!

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