Pointless Platitudes
You will have seen the Pointless Platitudes. They are invariably plastered over somebody’s social media feed and keep popping up in your own. There will be some dreamy picture, some gaudy sparkling image which is meant to conjure up a belonging to some ethereal, higher plane and alongside this meaningless image comes the meaningless words.
Useless. Unhelpful. Dangerous.
Not only do these Pointless Platitudes invariably irritate you with the vapid sentimentality they pose a greater problem. They are often written with regard to love and relationships and as you all know, where love and relationships exist, then so do our kind.
These amorphous comments serve only to provide people with false hope and misunderstanding. They cover up what is really going on and keep people stuck believing that if they only “follow their heart” everything will work out. No. It will not.
These Pointless Platitudes mask the reality of what is happening to hundreds of millions of peoples around the world who are caught in our grasp. They euphemism, they dilute and obscure the actuality of ensnarement with a narcissist.
It goes further however. It is the peddling of such tripe which means that the dangerous behaviours are ascribed to something else, something regarded as far less problematic which can apparently be overcome with some trite comment, a liberal application of hope and some glitter. This means that the people who need to understand, the people who need enlightenment and who need to reduce the fog of emotional thinking are completely misled.
These Pointless Platitudes need to be shattered and who better than me to take them apart. I want you to provide me with the examples of these Pointless Platitudes (and feel free to explain what really gets your goat about them) so that I can select the most misleading, the ones used the most often and the most dangerous ones to ensure they are picked apart so this information can be then used to reach new shores.
So, over to you good readers. Provide your examples in the comments and let’s shatter the Pointless Platitudes and inject some cold, hard logic into the world.
224 thoughts on “Pointless Platitudes”
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“Sometimes, two people have to fall apart to realize how much they need to fall back together.”
“The people who are meant to be in your life will always gravitate back towards you, no matter how far they wander.”
“Getting a text from that special someone right when you’ve felt like they forgot about you.”
Spot on.
EB,
Good ones. The scary thing is that I believed and hoped in all 3 of those sayings. I now know the logical truth and will remove them from my mind.
Hi Kristin,
They were from an account about ‘Psychology’!
Wow EB, go figure!! I have a degree in psychology and look where it got me, I shouldn’t be surprised. That is why HG, his site and you all are so valuable. We have all been in a similar boat and HG is an empath expert. That alone cannot be replaced by seeing a therapist, if anything it could be detrimental because of false information and them just being clueless.
I have briefly looked at other authors and videos and they wete pale in comparison. Once you know, you stay with HG!
Yep. An abstract description of how “narcissists will try to manipulate conversations” won’t hit home the way one of HG’s twisty dialogues about who gets the next car or whether something happened the way the victim remembered it (“you need help; I’m only telling you this because everyone is worried about you”) always does. Suddenly, there’s that little moment when the reader thinks, “I know this script–too well.”
Violetta,
Absolutely! Got sucked into the narcs manipulative ways the other day as he was coming out of his silent treatment. He is an attorney who negotiates and argues for a living 😕 and I do not do well in the heat of the moment. I did, however, recognize the blaming, projection and refusal to take responsibility for his behavior right away. He wanted to know what he does to upset me and I thought of a couple of things but they were thrown right back at me. My silence infuriates him and when I ignore his taunts and attempts at gaining fuel (- or +) it comes back ten fold, you just can’t win. I just keep immersing myself in HG’s advice.
Hello Kristin,
Thank you for all your interesting comments. I apologize for my late reply.
I am glad to hear that you stay open to new information. Some people with a degree in psychology (but not all) are reluctant to learn from someone who has been diagnosed with NPD/AsPD and/or from people who have been the target of a particular type of abuse. They say they have studied and researched this subject for most part of their careers so they seem to believe they know it all and that there is nothing new for them to learn from other narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths and victims. This makes it harder for people who need help and were not subjected to the most common types of abuse that appear in modern psychology books.
I agree with what you said about other authors. They cannot match HG’s knowledge, especially when it comes to different schools of narcissists and behaviours. They put narcissists into two big groups – overt and covert. Their vague advice can put victims at risk, especially when the victim wants to go NC.
Indeed and thank you EB.
You are welcome, HG.
I also think they give a false sense of hope fueling ET and preventing us from moving forward. As difficult as it is, these thoughts and others like them have to be removed from our minds, as I am learning. There will be no healing unless this is done and it is a constant battle of the mind.
“We are all just doing the best that we can..”
“The Lights are on
But you’re not home
Your mind
Is not your own”
“….Might as well face it, you’re addicted to love”
I liked the music, the lyrics send the usual message.
We should believe Dolly Parton when she said:
When someone shows you their true colors, believe them.
HG, is Dolly Parton a super empath? She seems very nice, but mysterious.
HG, never mind the question about Dolly Parton, i saw you’re comment on that same question somewere else on the blog.
No problem.
So what/where was the answer?
HG his answer was that he did not analysed Dolly Parton to form an accurate view . It was an answer to the same question from Alexissmith2016 on the artikel Crumbs of conversational comfort.
Thank you.
Auntiempath: Dolly seems to be a highly functioning Somatic N.
PrincessSuperEmpath, so it seems. I realy hope she is a Empath. I saw recently a Netflix documentary about her. She stated a couple times: I know exactly what iam doing. Maybe a greater N? Do you mean highly functioning N is a greater N?
Auntiempath: I think Dolly could be a Greater. Is that her real name? She is very smart and worldly. Her husband was under her control despite her numerous `friends.` She out-maneuvered and survived the competition from women that were more and more younger and beautiful as her time went on, and for decades. In a vicious field, especially for women, the music industry. She had no fear to have all that plastic surgery, even when it was more dangerous to do so, back in the day, to stay relevant and to survive according to her beliefs.
She is on the world stage and she is state of the art, in her genre of country music, and this is all from my cultural memory of her, without ever researching her. I do not know what she is doing these days, because for whatever the reasons, her name does not enter my sphere for a long time now. I do not even know if she is dead or alive.
I am sure if we were to dig around a bit and look into her history and possible shenanigans, she could be a Greater. And, Auntie, please remember, that coming across as being loving is the facade/brand of most country singers: Heartbroken, full of love, and needing pity, as good old boys and good old girls, all with hearts of gold. Consummate blame-shifters. So, a country music artist needs to successfully and convincingly come off as an empath, whether as a loving empath or as a resultant bitter empath that has been `done wrong,` to pass the litmus test and be relevant, in that genre of music. Whether or not that is their true personality, behind closed doors, so to speak.
And, I have often heard that hardcore listeners of Country Music have the highest suicide rates of all musical genres. And I have heard stories of the meanness and violence and just totally bad behaviour of many of these country music singers, in their private lives. She does not really want pity, from what I see, but, of course, she would go for the pity play, if it were convenient according to her primary aims and if it met her needs for her survival, of course. So, I would say she is a possible Greater Somatic and Elite, something like that, now that I think about it, a bit more. I do not dislike her at all, if it seems like I do in my tone. She is a survivor. If I had to choose only between liking her or disliking her, I would choose: Like.
Yes she has a good facade.
I like her to.
And you write here some good points, i missed them.
I think you are right. A Greater….
Iam going to keep on reading here. Its facinating and very educational.
Thank you for you’re opinion PrincessSuperEmpath
Auntiempath: It was fun for me to undertake to assess Dolly Parton. I know that HG Tudor specializes in teaching about NPD, specifically, However, many of us on here say that we really did not know much about people in general, and how to access them, more importantly, until we came here on Narcsite. And we consider him to be a behavioral genius. It is fascinating to read on Narcsite and highly educational like you say. I am way smarter since I have been reading on here for almost a year now. I can feel it.
PrincessSuperEmpath:
Iam reading here since august, last year.
It is like waking up. I see everything different now.
I had most relationships with narcissist. My deceased father was a narcissist.
Iam now with a normal guy. So much better.
And iam now very interested in woman with NPD.
Because my brother lives with a N. woman, possibly lower midrange.
My mother and i are in no contact with her.
And we only want to see my brother without her.
It is now very easy to do, when our ET is reduced, and we think locical.
But still. my brother cannot see it, like Prince Harry.
And the ex of my boyfriend is a very Narcisstic woman, possibly a N. to.
I have to keep on reading, learning here from HG.
Maybe do some consultation with HG.
And i also like to read the comments here, also fascinating and educational.
“If you can’t get someone out of your head, maybe they are supposed to be there.“ 🤯
MommyPino: That platitude, one very close to it in meaning, really set me back. My E.T. just loved it though. Now, my E.T, regarding jumping for that platitude, is in the dungeon, and placed there by me.
Follow your heart – hahahahahahaha …umm, yeah… no.
“Following my heart” is precisely what landed me in many situations and mental states that were unhealthy or it made the situation even worse.
If ‘heart’ is the same here as ‘instinctive feelings of what I thought the *right* thing to do would be’, then I should have actually walked in the opposite direction of where my ‘heart’ wanted to go.
Still, the more my heart took me to disappointing places, the more I learned that something needed to change. It was a hard road though.
WiserNow,
I followed my heart and instincts and it was a disaster. That’s what empaths do and we have to retrain the thoughts that have been engrained in us since the beginning. I am just now leaning that, what a tiresome but necessary thing to have to go through but we will be better for it in the end as you have shown.
Kristin,
Yes, I know what you mean. The retraining of our thoughts and instincts is very difficult sometimes. At times, I feel like I’m in a constant state of second-guessing myself.
For example, if I have even a short conversation with someone, I find that I weigh up each word that both they and I say during the conversation and afterwards. My thoughts are activated to think of whether or not I can trust them, whether or not they have a hidden agenda, whether or not there will be adverse consequences because of what I’ve said, etc. It can be exhausting and frustrating and ultimately, makes interacting a negative experience in general. Not all of the time though. I enjoy interacting here on narcsite most of the time, for instance. However, it’s generally tiresome but necessary as you say.
The way our instincts and motivations were manipulated since the beginning means that it’s difficult to see and adopt a different way to respond. It feels foreign and ‘wrong’ to respond contrary to our instincts. It’s something that needs to be ‘learned’ and that means it’s a ‘cognitive’ exercise. It’s a case of the cognitive overriding the instinctive and that takes time and focus.
Also, if you were controlled over time or in a controlling situation where your safety or security or well-being meant it was necessary to comply with that control, it’s then difficult to have a sense of autonomy later. It feels ‘wrong’ or unsafe to assert your opinion or defy or disagree with another. On the other hand, being ‘controlled’ in the past can also lead to feeling that you need to rebel against everything in order to protect yourself, regardless of whether or not there is an actual threat.
The more I learn about this subject, the more I realize that my personality was twisted and changed in a subtle way over time since the beginning. With awareness, I feel like a different person now. The old me is the same person as the current me, however, the old me was operating with a warped sense of how to ‘see’ and respond to things. When this ‘warping’ happens from the very beginning and gets reinforced over time, it’s difficult to recognise or change the ‘instinct’.
WiserNow,
I hate that you second guess yourself but I totally understand it. It IS retraining our thoughts and instincts which is exhausting and daunting bur the only way to survive and escape. I am glad you made that point.
It does feel wrong to have a contrary opinion because of being manipulated for so long. Even today I get berated just for saying what I thought. I feel a physical reaction when he does that and as you said, I am trying to learn a different way of thinking. I am who I am but I have been manipulated for so long that I don’t know what is right anymore. I live in a constant fog because the prick will not let up!!!! I’m sorry, it has been a long few weeks at home with him and I want to explode. My autonomy has been jeopardized because he is literally in my face all the time and 8 out of 10 conversations involve him provoking and baiting me. I fear standing up for myself because he blows, pouts and blames me before he begins the silent treatment, again. In a way it is a relief because he leaves me the hell alone for a few days, it’s the pathetic truth.
“It’s a case of the cognitive overriding the instinctive and that takes time and focus.” I will remember that. I am glad you have made it so far and feel like a different person now. Even though I have just started this journey, I have learned so much and feel myself changing but have a long way to go. One step at a time but it is happening.
Your insight is right on and very encouraging to me. I will be saving your comments and rereading them. Thank you so much. Keep trusting your new instincts and know that your words have really helped me and I’m sure others as well.
Dear Kristin,
Thank you for your message and your kind words. I am very sorry that you are in this situation. I know how incredibly frustrating, exhausting and confusing it is. It’s hard for people to truly understand unless they’ve been in the same position. Believe me, you are not alone with your thoughts and feelings. It is TOTALLY appropriate and understandable that you want to explode, so please don’t be sorry. You have nothing to be sorry for.
The saddest and most frustrating thing about narcissism is that narcissists don’t or won’t change. No matter how much love, understanding, help, patience, forgiveness, kindness etc, you show them, their personality and the problems they cause don’t get better. In the process, they wear you out and make you feel like you’re going crazy. The situation with them (even if you actually do love them) will not get better, no matter how much compassion for them you may still have. They will not change. If anything, they get even worse as they get older. That little part of our brains containing empathy and conscience is actually a HUGE thing, but sadly narcs don’t have it.
Kristin,
The truth is that you are incredibly strong to live with a narc all this time and still be able to think logically. It takes immense patience and perseverence. It shows how resilient you really are. The provoking, baiting, blaming and drama are like living in a warzone 24/7. It’s stressful and unhealthy, both physically and psychologically. You don’t deserve it. You deserve a peaceful and satisfying life. We all only live once, so why spend your time being in a state of frustration and anger? It doesn’t make sense.
The silent treatments you’re experiencing give you a chance to breathe and a sense of peace in all the drama. It’s totally understandable that you feel relief. It’s not pathetic at all to think that way. In fact, it’s logical. If anything, you would benefit from getting more alone time. It would help you to strengthen your own thoughts and to feel more relaxed.
When I first learned about this subject after years and years of being unaware, it was really hard to think logically. I felt guilty, like I didn’t have the right to stay away and do my own thing. It felt selfish and mean. But it wasn’t when I remembered all the times I was selfless and honest and thought I’d do the ‘right’ thing even though that only made things easier for the narc and harder for me.
It takes time to change your thinking Kristin, however, with self-compassion, you’ll see that you have done enough and you don’t have to keep putting yourself in that position of being provoked anymore. You don’t need it or deserve it. The more time you can spend by yourself and away from the toxic influences, the more your logical thinking will get stronger.
I wish you all the best and I think you have the strength to get where you want to be 😊 👍❤
WiserNow,
I did not mean for that post to be about me but that is what happened. I am used to helping others and have a difficult time being the needy one but know that I will one day have hind sight and be able to offer support and advice to others who are struggling.
You confirmed what I have been observing and thinking to myself. I wouldn’t not wish the inability to think logically, guilt, brain fog etc. on anyone but it is reassuring to know that you went through the same thing and can now see logically. You are correct, they won’t change and it does get worse and it is a warzone as you described. I would welcome a lobotomy at this point :).
I will do as you say and make sure I remove myself from the situation as often as I can. You have your own struggles and I so appreciate everything you have said. It will take time to change my thinking since this is all I have known for my adult life and I will keep reminding myself of that and everything else you wrote.
You have your own struggles and I so appreciate everything you have said. This is another of your posts that I have saved! Blessings to you and please know that your words have helped so much, once again. Yours is one of the posts that bring tears to my eyes but I know that is part of the healing. Thank you xx
PS I continue to pray for all those on this site because this struggle is stronger than I am/we are sometimes and I have to trust that God will give us all the strength we need.
Kristin,
You’re very welcome and thank you very much also for your blessings and for your kind words.
You give me strength too and you make me feel that I can share what I have learned so far and help someone else who is going through the same kind of pain. It’s an awful kind of pain Kristin, but please know that the universe is a beautiful place and God has your back. Narcissists try to be bigger than the universe, but that is not possible.
I know I probably sound like some kind of “peace & love” hippy talking about the universe, but I’m not. In real life, I’m not like that at all and I never go around talking to people in real life about the universe etc. But I do really feel that narcissists don’t have real power. Neither do empaths for that matter. But the universe and nature and God does, and that’s something I trust too.
Yes, this struggle is stronger than we are sometimes and it’s not going away anytime soon. There are narcissists everywhere and you can’t avoid them unless you go and live like a hermit all alone in a cave somewhere! 😂
Thank you for your comments and your honesty Kristin. I will pray for you too and I hope that your struggle gets easier for you. Observe the narcissists you know and don’t absorb their words or what they do. Believe in yourself and your inner strength and protect yourself. You have every right to do that.
WiserNow,
I love your universe talk and I understand what you are saying. Our lack of control is a difficult thing to accept so I too trust in God because He sees the whole picture. Your insight continues to inspire me, thank you. Not to be cheesy, but you are truly wiser now and we all benefit from your knowledge. xx
Thank you Kristin xx ❤ That’s very kind of you and I appreciate it. I’m glad you found your way here. There are many people here who are at different stages and who have had different experiences. It’s a great place to learn and HG makes it enjoyable too 🙂
WiserNow. Follow your heart: What a destructive saying, at times. Basically that platitude means: Follow your Emotional Thinking and leave your logic at home and drugged and chained up and hidden away.
PrincessSuperEmpath,
Yes, it’s the same as saying, “Don’t follow your head” or don’t follow your logic, because your heart (emotional thinking) knows what it’s talking about and is a better guide. I used to be absolutely convinced that my emotional thinking was 100% on the right track.
You and the rest of us. Our ET seemed so logical and still does sometimes, unfortunately.
West Side Story’s paean to Emotional Thinking:
MARIA
….I hear your words
And in my head
I know they’re smart,
But my heart, Anita,
But my heart
Knows they’re wrong
And my heart
Is too strong,
For I belong
To him alone, to him alone.
One thing I know:
I am his,
I don’t care what he is.
I don’t know why it’s so,
I don’t want to know.
ANITA
A boy like that, etc.
Very smart Maria, very smart!
MARIA
Oh no, Anita, no,
You should know better!
You were in love – or so you said.
You should know better . . .
I have a love, and it’s all that I have.
Right or wrong, what else can I do?
I love him; I’m his,
And everything he is
I am, too.
I have a love, and it’s all that I need,
Right or wrong, and he needs me, too.
I love him, we’re one;
There’s nothing to be done,
Not a thing I can do
But hold him, hold him forever,
Be with him now, tomorrow
And all of my life!
BOTH
When love comes so strong,
There is no right or wrong,
Your love is your life.
Wow that is awful! It’s everywhere in so many movies and songs. I just heard the song “buttercup“- it’s a catchy little tune but when you Listen to the words-it’s like he’s dealing with a narcissist🤣 Why do you build me up just to let me down turn me around and worst of all you never call baby when you say you will but I need to still! I need you I need you more than anything baby. …You told me time and again youd would be over by 10.. bla bla bla –
Kathleen: Listening to oldies stations can be a nice melodic break from compressed autotune and mumble-rap, but they can also make you insane. There was a one-hit wonder (I hope–I’m afraid to look) who whined the following lines in an early ’70s hit:
Did you know I go to sleep and
Leave the lights on
Hoping you’d come by and know
That I was home and still awake
But two years go by and still
My light’s on
Dude, are you stupid?
You know what I really fucking hate? I hate it when people sneeze and everyone says “bless you”…..I want to take their heads and slam them into the curb of the street. It drives me insane. I won’t say it. I refuse. Such a waste of breath and effort honestly.
Singasongy,
I thought I was the only one. It really grates on my nerves when a stranger says it and I’m expected to say thank you!!
yes! I think that the fact they expect that thank you is what really pisses me off the most!
I hate that too. Or when someone has a sneeze attack and they say bless you after every sneeze. Seriously?
Why bless a sneeze but not a fart? Makes no sense and seems wrong to be discriminatory. Not to mention, one has ever caught a cold from someone’s fart, but we bless you for blowing your snot all over? Now just picture yourself saying bless you after somebody cranks one…
Beyond stupid.
Back to platitudes: Forgive and forget.
Fuck that noise. That’s an orgasm to a narc’s ears and leaves you open to abuse by anyone.
Hello NA, the basis for saying “bless you” when someone sneezes is a shortening of “god bless you”. It appears to have originated from when the plague rampaged around Europe, one of the symptoms was sneezing and saying “god bless you” was to done in the hope of stopping that person dying. Entertainingly, it was also thought that your soul could leave you when you sneezed and be taken by the devil so saying “bless you” was to ward against that happening.
Of course we now know that believing you lose your soul to sneezing is utter bunkum.
I come and take your souls in the night.
I think when I started not believing in God anymore or at least the religious construct is when I stopped saying Bless you. I hate fake people.
And I’m disappointed you didn’t attach a “muhahahaha” at the end of your statement. Perhaps you already know I read it with that in mind…ha ha.
I just twirl my moustache.
H.G. I just realized that quick wit triggered me.
HG
Interesting history. If knowing that doesn’t stop the idiocy of that practice now, there is no hope for humanity.
But fair warning……
If you’re still stealing souls in the night, you could do with a blessing yourself, because I fart in my sleep.
Ah but I know you sleep with a butt plug.
HG
That’s not a butt plug. It’s a duck call.
Ah, that’s why my trigger finger twitched.
Forgive the pedantry, but the eyes involuntarily close during a sneeze and the blood flow to the heart is affected, so I suppose if they are driving or have a bad heart they might benefit from a real blessing. Thank you for the origins, HG, very interesting.
Also, certain Native Americans believed a person’s soul is located in his mouth, so two people kissing allow their souls to touch; and the when a person is dying, his last breath is his soul flying out of his mouth.
@NA
I feel the same way, I never say “bless you.”
I also hate small talk and I have to force myself to engage in it so I appear “normal.” Why ask how I am, just to appear polite if you don’t really care and you damn well know I’m just going to say “I’m fine,” and conversation done.
I have considered that I might be an aspie, but really a lot of these formalities are just fucking dumb.
And why are we supposed to gossip about stupidness in social gatherings like who is fucking who, when we could talk about how fascinating it is that crows can recognise and remember individual human faces!
Witch,
“we could talk about how fascinating it is that crows can recognise and remember individual human faces!”
That *is* fascinating – is it true?
But random facts aside, I agree with you about small talk. I do think that there is something to be said for basic politeness; it just makes navigating daily activities better.
I do find that when people approach me or strike up pointless conversations I am better equipped now to know if their efforts are contrived or sincere. Usually, sincere people don’t make you feel compelled to engage in superficial conversation.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been engaged in conversation or interaction public with my son and some complete stranger feels compelled to redirect my attention to them for a reason unknown to me. I am so much better at deflecting this type of behaviour now after my learning here.
@whocares
It is true. An experiment was done which suggested that crows do remember what we individually look like.
Witch,
I guess it is unsurprising given their level of intelligence…makes me wonder how the ability to discern human features apart serves them in the natural world – though I am sure attention to detail serves them well in other ways.
I have always been fond of crows and raven. Seeing ravens while I am out and about always gives me a sense of peace. They are such curious creatures and the sounds they can produce are startling and don’t sound like something that should come out of a bird’s beak.
Hi who cares
It would serve them to recognise what human has acted threateningly towards them or other crows so they can avoid or attack.
Witch. That sounds so strange about crows. I do not believe they recognize human faces. I know that dogs and other creatures recognize humans mainly by scent, and also by the sound and pitch of human voices…..If crows can recognize faces, maybe can work for facial recognition security teams.
See link Princess https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/science/26crow.html
Happy New Year PSE. You’ll want to rush over to purchase the new ET package. It has a special section on “the bathtub principle”. As for dogs, they do recognize human faces readily and this is well studied. I have not read about crows, but if you were loudly shooed off a lawn or had pebbles thrown at you, you might remember the face of the one who did so!
Witch. You lost me at: NY Times. But, I will give it a read about the crows.
FYC: Who gives the dogs and the crows eye/vision tests to see if they have 20/20 vision etc. The sense of smell for recognition purposes for dogs is incredible and admirable. And that sense of smell may not be exclusive to dogs. Nevertheless, even many people have problems recognizing faces, vision wise and memory wise. And most people are high up on the scale of the creation. Eagles have strong vision, but that does not mean there is facial recognition happening. What if the animal is far sighted or near sighted according to the standards of vision for the species? Figuring this out is another problem within itself. The creature will not be able to say: yes, that face is clear, at this distance, and, no that face is blurry, to any examiner. I will read, with trepidation, the article that Witch posted for me. This article better be good.
Dog facial recognition: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201802/how-do-dogs-recognize-human-faces
Dog emotion recognition: https://www.the-scientist.com/the-nutshell/canine-facial-recognition-35930
To keep this relevant, we empaths would be lucky to have the same immediate recognition accuracy of Ns.
Witch: I read the NYTimes article. The people work masks and harassed the crows, and then other people wore masks. It seems to me that people possible act or smell differently when wearing masks. I can not go with the facial recognition theory. And someone working on this theory for over 20 years, I find even odder.
@Princess
The wildlife biologist has studied crows and ravens for over 20 years, he hasn’t studied facial recognition in crows and ravens for over 20 years specifically
Witch: Regarding your statement: `The wildlife biologist has studied crows and ravens for over 20 years, he hasn’t studied facial recognition in crows and ravens for over 20 years specifically.` I am fully ready to hear what this biologist believes on this matter in another 20 years.
@princess
My guess is that he will believe the same, given that he and others have had the same observations and experiences working with crows
FYC and Witch: I read your articles on dogs and facial recognition and the woman scowling at her dog. I believe that the woman gives off an adrenaline scent when she scowls and is upset with her dog, and the dog perceives it. The owner smells differently whenever she is upset and the dog has learned the owner`s warning scent: A common trait of people and their scents when a person is alarmed or upset is to give off adrenaline. Fight or flight, and the woman fights by chastising her dog when upset. The dog, I say, is not aware of the owner`s scowl, although the scowl and the adrenaline release happen at the same time. The adrenaline is the trigger for the dog, not the scowl.
I am definitely going to say that these creatures to do not recognize facial features, beyond perhaps the size of a person`s head. Size does alarm many creatures, especially a large size. Even some people are alarmed by large bodies of other people. That is not facial recognition. I am glad I am not a student in University of these scientists. I would probably have to transfer out of their classes, if possible, to bypass a failing grad of, F. for Failure and refusal to believe their theories that animals can recognize the facial features of people.
I wish I could put people behind a glass, with a number sign in their hand, in a sterile environment that is proven to be scent proof, and have the people in a bubble suit with only their faces visible, and have the dogs pick out their owners. Or even show dogs various head shot photos of differen people and have the dog pick out their owners.
PSE: I prefer objective, evidentiary studies (I also have extensive personal experience with dogs), but I know how you feel about science, and you have every right to believe whatever you choose.
@princess
Do you take issue with the intelligence of other animals or something?
Gorillas and Chimpanzees can learn sign language.. the African grey parrot can be taught to identify colours, shapes and some numbers.. other animals are not entirely stupid
FYC; I would like to make some of my own studies, and make testing suggestions from my own mentality, when I doubt when I am being told. Whether or not the theorists call themselves a scientist or not. Some of these scientists and others want to put their audience in the same box as some of their studies. I refused to be boxed in by scientists and non scientists when I do not believe their theories, and when I am not allowed to perform or make suggestions on how I would prefer to see some of their theories tested. Especially the ones that have spent 20 years or more, saying the same thing. Even a baby has the right to refuse spoiled milk. There is nothing to fear by having their theories tested by outsiders, and in various ways that the scientists do not consider, is there? Sounds fun to me. I bet many of these people would not put their own life on the line for the same very theories that they rigorously undertake to promote to others. And you are absolutely right about me: I am not a fan of Science, falsely called. lol.
Witch: Regarding your question to me: `@princess
Do you take issue with the intelligence of other animals or something?
Gorillas and Chimpanzees can learn sign language.. the African grey parrot can be taught to identify colours, shapes and some numbers.. other animals are not entirely stupid.`
Witch, I find some animals more intelligent than some people.
Princess. I work with dogs. I train them and work them for contests that take me around the country. I also judge these constests. Hands down there are dogs smarter than some humans!!! Animals are amazing! I have extreme empathy for animals and innocents. Dogs are special to me and it is incredible what you can train them to do.
“I find some animals more intelligent than some people.”
Well, Princess, that’s not saying much!
Violetta: Hahahaha. I am trying to stay out of trouble.
Princess: I’d trust my former neighbor’s Great Pyrenees over the university “Dolores Umbridges” or any of my Poison Pollyanna elementary school teachers.
I had a friend who was in a car crash. She was afraid to get back in the car. She used to show horses, and I said, “You literally have to ‘get back on the horse’ all the time. Why can’t you drive anymore?”
She answered, “I can trust my horses; they have common sense. I’m not so sure about the other drivers out there.”
yes those are the ones I would like to smash. The ones that say it after.every.single.sneeze….
Sing, I feel the same way… well, I don’t want to slam anyone’s head into a curb, but I think saying bless you is silly. I stopped saying it for a long time; I even justified not saying it by researching its origins (haha) but my kids guilt me into saying it, so I just do it out of obligation. Actually, in this way I can relate to narcs… I know I’m supposed to say it according to society, so I do, but I think it’s silly and frankly annoying, and I have no true emotion in saying it. Now every time someone sneezes I can say bless you and think to myself, “I get you, narcs”.
wow, this is very insightful, honestly. I guess I have always felt like an outsider when it comes to being forced into mandatory social situations. And you are right I do it out of those social norms but I don’t anymore. I’m a rebel, ha ha. I just ignore the sneezer these days. Everyone looks at me like what a jerk but it actually gives me a huge bit of satisfaction to see those looks, ha!
Sing, I feel like I’m being a jerk too when someone sneezes and I ignore it. If someone sneezes and then looks at me, it’s kinda awkward. Like what? Should I say “nice one”? I started saying “bless you” when someone burps. Just so I can bring attention to the fact that they so rudely burped in my face! Saying it out of context makes them think about it.
Mercy,
“Should I say “nice one”? I started saying “bless you” when someone burps.” LOVE it, too funny. I am completely relieved when I sneeze in public and no one says bless you, I almost want to thank them… This whole string has made me laugh!
Yes I’m the same please don’t say bless you to me. Please don’t make me have to thank you due to social norms.
Maybe cutting our teeth by refusing to give in to senseless social norms can lead way to actually saying no in situations that do matter. Baby steps so to speak.
NarcAngel, I agree and I usually dont have a problem doing that. Sometimes I get the vibe that I’m being too argumentive though. Not the sneezing stuff, just going against the norm in general.
Mercy
Too argumentative? If you have conviction in what you are saying and can explain, that’s someone else’s perspective and not your concern, but I understand the difficulty applying it in some situations.
Yes I feel like I walk a fine line between having good ideas and “there she goes again”. I guess choose your battles is fitting.
Kristin, Haha we have to laugh sometimes because the serious subject of why we are here is overwhelming.
I read your story on the other thread. I’m glad you are here. I think this is the best place to be in our situation.
Mercy,
Thank you for your sense of humor and your support. This IS the best place to be, hands down.
that’s hilarious! I need to try this. I can’t stand burping like that.
Actually, saying “bless you” when someone sneezes is considered bad manners, as you’re calling attention to a mildly embarrassing private act that a sneezer would rather not do in public, given the chance. A polite thing is to ignore the sneeze and say nothing.
Ah…ah…ah…ahhhHHH……CHOOOO!!!
Dear AnneB,
“Gesundheit” 🤧
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you kindly, Bubbles!
p.s. Sorry Bubbles!, I can see you wiping your eye there. I am embarrassed! 🙂
(emoticons…maybe I need to rethink my prejudice in this area)
Dear AnneB,
It’s definitely the nose 🤥 my little hay fever suffer
🤣
Or perhaps we’re just allergic to narcs !
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Oh, I see now Bubbles! I thought you were making a joke (and didn’t mind at all!). It was too small for me, or my eyesight isn’t up to the job. (….I may rethink my rethink on reversal of emoticon prejudice).
There is tonnes of smoke about so sneezing and sniffing is the lot for many at the moment. I hope you are not affected too much. I am fortunate to be out of the smoke zones. Keep taking care bubbles ox.
Bubbles, I want that N allergy and am working towards it…..
The good news about allergies is once you avoid exposure for a while, your tolerance decreases. I smoked as a teen, gave it up when I got into sports and dance, and now I wheeze when I’m around it. People who give up a particular food may notice that if they try it again, it upsets their digestion, or at least tastes very strange. This is actually how they do test for allergies.
You avoid a particular substance for a week or so, then reintroduce it. They do this one at a time until you find the one that’s causing the reaction.
HG’s NC ZI regimen seems to involve this principle. Not only are you not feeding the narc, you are not feeding your addiction. By the time you may be forced to deal with the narc in divorce court or he/she confronts you as you leave work (if you’re not in a position to move away or change jobs), you’ve been away long enough that ET, like tolerance, has decreased, and suddenly things that you ignored are giving you mental hives and emotional wheezing fits.
What actually happens is that by removing the ET to the lowest possible level, you allow logic to govern you and therefore you see the behaviours for what they are and you are far more likely to stay away from them because you are not affected by the effects of ET as described in the Assistance Package “Addiction and the relationship with ET”.
We reap what we sow! = I don’t think I’m sowing any Narc seeds. I may be reaping what my father sowed
Hard work pays off = politics payS better$
Love conquers all = 🤮
Dreaming things into reality !! = All I did as a child was dream of being principal clarinetist in a large orchestra, and being married. Neither came 100% true
‘The ones who love you will never leave you.’ Unless they are a narc, they will leave temporarily then come back in some form. Even the ones who do love you will often leave; just as you will leave those you truly love. Because we are all totally messed up and life isn’t rainbows and butterflies.
Just saw one along the lines of “ A perfect relationship isn’t perfect, it’s about two people who are not perfect, but who never give up on each other despite any hurt or pain.” That was used against me a million times! Our/my love is not perfect but it’s real, don’t be a quitter, we always make it work, we will continue to make it work, blah blah blah….
Girl Scout Song:
Make new friends
But keep the old
One is silver and the other gold
My version:
Make new friends
And drop that clique
The leader’s narcy, and her drones are sick
My brain is so done thinking of N’s. Need a break. See ya
Kim e, I hope you’re ok.
Mercy,
Thanks for checking on me. Just a blip on the radar. ET & LT fighting all day. I am good now…well as good as I can be right now.
Thanks gain for asking…it means a lot.
Kim e,
That’s understandable. Sometimes, this subject takes over my mind and I frame everything else I do with thoughts of narcissism in the background. It can be all-consuming sometimes and you do need a break from thinking about it.
I think it’s healthy to stop thinking about it excessively for a while. It gives your unconscious mind a chance to process it all. It helps to make all of these things you have learned about narcs settle in to your unconscious mind.
Kim e,
I hope you have a good break and I hope you keep learning in whatever way helps you most at the time. In the meantime, narcsite is still here and you can always come back if you need to.
WiserNow
Thank you for your words. I was having an extremely high ET day when I wrote that. It was true at the time but I am back on the site now. How could I leave all of you? ❤️
Hi Kim e,
It’s good to see you back again❤️ I hope things are going well for you.
What can I say, ET is a giant pain in the ***! You are doing very well though because you can recognise it for what it is. Keep reading and learning and in time, it will keep going down.
WiserNow,
Thanks for the kind words and support but I have fallen and am finding it very hard to get up again. BUT I have not given up. LT is still there….just need to fight the F*ing ET again.
Kim e,
I am so sorry for your pain, we can all relate. I have yet to grasp LT so you are on the right path. This all sucks if you ask me but I know it will be worth it because of others that have made it to the other side. That is what keeps me hanging on.
Kristin,
Thanks for your kind thought. It is a definate process….once I have tried numerous times. Every time I try I go a little bit longer so I fugure eventually I will get there.
Good Luck on your journey
Kim e,
Yes, the ET is a real pain. It’s so good to hear that you haven’t given up though. Your LT is still there and it will always be there. It will become stronger if you have less contact and keep reading about how to protect yourself.
Gaining more and more logical knowledge and learning about new information on this subject helped me. If you look up Abdul Saad on YouTube, he has some good videos about why empaths need to attach and how they can change their thinking and what they can do to help stop the emotional thinking. He also has down-to-earth and helpful videos on why narcissists think in the ways they do.
Another thing that helped me was reading about defence strategies. Narcs use defence strategies like denial, projection, and identification. All people use these ‘defence mechanisms’ at times, especially in stressful situations, however, narcs rely on them very heavily and the defence mechanisms become constant or ‘entrenched’. Their emotional development wasn’t based on secure attachments and these defences became their coping mechanisms that they didn’t grow out of them like more securely attached people normally do as children or adolescents.
The bottom line though Kim e, is that no contact helps me the most. The more time I have to myself away from the influences of narcs, the better my thinking gets and the more peaceful and content I feel.
I hope your ET improves and you can get enough ‘no contact’ to become stronger in your own logical thinking. I wish you all the best Kim e.
WiserNow,
Thank you. I am sticking with HG. My brain is confused enough as it is but to throw others into the mix with their ideas and “remedies” would really mess me up.
I find it really strange that today I feel completely at peace. Doesnt mean that I will be that way in 10 minutes (lol) but I am listening to music which I have not done in days. Noramlly I have too much choas going on in my head to even consider music and other functions at the same time.
Not sure why this is. Because I surrendered to my ET? Just happens to be the mood of the day? My chi is in allignment?
Going to enjoy it while it lasts.
Kim e,
You’re welcome, and I understand that you’re going to stick with HG. Each of us has different ways to feel better and you will know best what helps.
Listening to music can be a good way to calm down ET. There are times when music has helped me a lot.
You made me smile by saying, “My chi is in allignment?”. That’s funny. I’m not sure why Kim e. I think our emotions can work in mysterious ways.
I’m glad you felt completely at peace though. Emotional thinking doesn’t just go away. It’s two steps forward, one step back and it can take sideways steps back and forth too. It goes all over the place. The main thing is that over time, the more you stay here, your ET will go down in the right direction. You are doing really well to be where you are.
Dear Kim e,
Take care lovely
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Here’s a good one “I miss HG!” It feels like the longest vacay ever.
Ah, I was wondering where he was! I thought all the vibrator talk scared him off.
Darn, I missed all the vibrator talk, lol
It’s the year 2020, so I think we are obligated to include “hindsight is 20/20” , but that one is pretty spot on. For me, it’s more like 20/40 because I’m still trying to understand everything, but yeah, even with my blurry hindsight vision I’d like to hit delete on that first alluring narc text.
Oh God yes! If only I’d ignored him. Arrrrrghhhh
Never ignore a person who loves and cares for you, because one day you may realize that you’ve lost the moon while counting the stars.
There goes your no contact.
I don’t have anything specifically. But did anyone see that facebook video Nicole Arbour created about exposing Jay Shetty? Supposedly he made millions, and won awards for his “inspirational work”, when all he really did was steal quotes from other people, and claim they were his. He gained popularity making memes off of facebook and viral videos. That’s like one of the Narcissist gigs where it seems like a good idea at the moment, but they don’t think ahead about the fact that they will be found out.
ANM, That falls under the 90% of all Public content on Facebook category.
Oh, right. Correction: Yeah, if it returns it thinks you belongs to it because it’s a narc.
90% of public content on Facebook.
“Love means never having to say you’re sorry”. It’s a tragedy that one found its way mainstream.
If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they’re yours, if they don’t they never were. I’m pretty sure the narc ALWAYS comes back and I’m also sure that they are NEVER ours!!!
Leigh: there was a parody version of that that finished, “if they don’t come back, hunt them down and shoot them.”
Violetta, Ha! If only we could!
“Everything happens for a reason”…
So we were swept up by narcissists because (ready for this?!):
“What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”.
No, it happened because narcs suck ass. That’s the reason.
This game is fun! Thanks, HG!
From the mouth of the N
“The simplest explanation is likely to be the correct one”
“It’s more likely to be a cock-up than a conspiracy – you always overthink things”
Forgive and forget.
Oh here’s a good one I just saw on my FB
Never punish a new love for something an old love did to you. Start each new relationship like you’ve never been hurt
Ive heard this one before but moreso from a narcissists standpoint….be mean keep em keen. Sadly it works on those with inner self esteem issues. They will try desperately to please those that dont treat them well. They unconsciously agree with them bc they feel low about themselves.
Ive heard many nonesense sayings that are either dreamy romantic notions or just untrue.
One notion is to shower those that are unkind with love bc they need it most. This is sooo false! They will only abuse more and suck the life out of you not to mention you stay around toxicity and reward the behavior.
‘When one door closes another one opens’
I’m happy with the one door slammed shut & bolted thanks
“People come and go in your life but the right ones will stay”
That was the meme he sent me a couple of times and I said “Well don’t push me away then”…but he did.
And the wrong ones will never let you leave.
LET
Now there’s a 3 letter word that I hate. It’s a good example of an offensive word that some people skate right over, but will then get lathered up over profanity.
Ah, yes, you’re right, NA. I guess I just want it to be easy to walk away, so I feel he isn’t “letting” me go when I say I’m done. But you’re right; he’s not making me do anything. At this point I’m doing it to myself.
BL
I meant in general. It wasn’t directed at you.
Trust me, NA, it’s totally fine. It made me think to the last time I tried to end things and he sent me a sad message and I dove right back in. That was all me not leaving, not him not letting me go. You’re spot on.
Did you know that narcissist spelled backwards is asshole
Hey if they can make shit up, so can we.
Am I playing this game right? I’m a little muddy on the rules.
You made me laugh out loud too! HG has some competition tonight. 🙂
And if narcissists can make their own rules and change them as they go along… so can we.
Of course you wouldn’t play that game with HG… we are smarter than that.
NarcAngel,
I love your sense of humor, I may borrow that one! Well said.
Haha best!
Haha, I believe we are supposed to make up the rules as we go, just to see how the other half lives. Seems like you’ve got the hang of it!
Plus for a split second you had me thinking, “wait narcissist doesn’t end with an a”, so bonus points to you.
April from “Company” by Stephen Sondheim
‘Right after I got to college, a friend of mine who has a garden apartment gave me a cocoon for my dorm room. He collects things like that . . . caterpillars, insects, and stuff . . . It was attached to a twig, and he told me that one morning I’d wake up to a beautiful butterfly flying around my room when it hatched. He said that when they first come out, they’re soaking wet and there’s even a tiny little speck of blood in there – isn’t THAT fascinating – but within an hour they dry off and begin to fly. Well, I told him I had a cat. I had a cat then. But he just said, “Put it somewhere where the cat can’t get it!” which is impossible, but what can you do? So, I put it up on a ledge where the cat never went, and the next morning it was still there, at least so it seemed safe to leave it. Anyway, about a week later, very, very early this one morning, the guy calls me and says, “April, do you have a butterfly this morning?” So I put down the phone and managed to get up and look, and sure enough I saw a little wet spot, and a tiny speck of blood, and . . . no butterfly. And I thought, “Oh, dear God in heaven, the cat got it.” I picked up the phone to tell the guy, and just then, suddenly, I spotted it underneath the dressing table. It was moving one wing. The cat had gotten it, but it was still alive. So i told the guy, and he got so upset and he said, “Oh, God, April, don’t you see that that’s a life? A living thing?” So I got dressed and took it to the park, and I put it on a rose. It was summer then, and it looked like it was going to be alright; I thought so, anyway. But that man . . . I felt so damaged by him – awful – that was just cruel. So I got home and called him back and said, “Listen, I’m a living thing too, you shithead!” I never saw him again.’
I once rescued a butterfly from a swimming pool in Greece. I thought they have such a short life, I didn’t want its to end there, drowning in that pool. I gently lifted it from the water and let it dry out on my sun bed then after an hour or so, it took to the air again and made my day x
Hahahaha…ok, this one definitely needs to go on a Tear-off Calendar!
NA,
I saw that too. It is frustrating when I explain they are dealing with a narcissist but they are not interested in learning about NPD/HPD/AsPD and why they became their victim.
They only want to hear their partner is an “ass****” and keep on complaining.
It seems to me their particular case must not be that serious since they are not interested in solving their problem.
NA,
PS: Happy New Year 2020! 🙂
😂😂
It’s about the spelling level of the Narc, and come to think of it, my Narky ex couldn’t spell either.
Entire lyric of “What’s the Use of Wonderin'” from Carousel.
Actually, the entire show is a sickening exercise in accepting family dysfunction for the sake of Mawiage…and Twue Wuv.
Violetta: I couldn’t agree more! In high school, the best place to learn about relationship dynamics, we put on the musical. I played Louise, the daughter of the narcissist Bigilow, and I’ll never forget the struggle to get the ‘slap’ correctly produced for optimum shock factor. Not that anyone asked the obvious question: why was it ‘understood’ that Daddy bitch-slapped his daughter because he luuuved her?
Ermmm, what?
“Men are from Mars women are from venus”
“Play hard to get”
“Pretend you don’t care, and they’ll come back or come around “
“relationships are HARD “
“Maybe you should lower your expectations “
“everyone is crazy”
“Well, they SEEM really sweet “
Kathleen,
Yes, I remember reading something like “If they really love you, they will come back to you”.
Not relationship specific, but works here:
“If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again”
Um, no… just cut rope. You’ll die trying.
BL,
I agree. There is a song on the radio, Try by Pink.
Also, telling people who grew up being scapegoated in a group (it starts with the family of origin) and are repeatedly victimized in adulthood that they just have *bad luck* and should *try again and again* until they find ‘good people’ is the most harmful advice scapegoats can receive.
Pink knows all about scapegoating. One of her videos shows a kid bring punished at school–for retaliating against a bully. Of course, the teacher didn’t see the bully instigating the situation. Can totally relate to that one.
Violetta, Raise Your Glass was one of my favourite Pink songs. I was originally forced to hear it owing to attending discoes for 8 year olds. I actually didn’t mind the composition side, then watched the video and paid more attention to the lyrics. I see that particular song as having value potential for those considered/identifying as ‘outsiders’ at school. Wouldn’t have a clue about Pink these days, but I liked some of her music 10 years ago.
The video with the teacher catching her retaliating but not the bully’s provocation is “Perfect.”
Poison Pollyanna to me, in front of the principal: “If you have a problem like that, you come to me. You don’t try to handle it yourself.”
Poison Pollyanna to me, the first (and last) time I followed the recommended procedure: “Well, what do you want me to do about it? I’m not a policeman.”
It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
2 years of solitude and a vibrator sound far more appealing (apologies to anyone opposed to sex talk, just speaking my truth!).
That’s so funny BL… but oh so true! You made me laugh out loud… and it’s usually HG that does that to me!
BL
Amen to that truth!
BL
Preach!
BL,
And batteries! Don’t forget the batteries.
Get the long lasting, more expensive batteries too. Doesn’t pay to be stingey in this area. Save the budgeting for other items.
Goodness just get the ones with chargers. There is no need for batteries.
😯
I just learned something new. And important.
I thought everyone knew about tossing out the batteries before this thread.
On another thread someone mentioned a plug in version, and I thought how ingenious that was! Nothing worse than when those batteries go at an inopportune time!
Petrol powered?
NotMe!, Fire risk?!
Anything but solar. They would never get enough light.
BL, Power cut?
Hahaha AnneB
Bush fire?
That was me BL. I’m still working on it. Once I figure out how to make that happen without getting electrocuted or choking on a 10 foot cord I’ll let you know.
Notme! Bush fire can result in extensive power cuts. In addition to the standard care package donation I will also send the Red Cross lots of AA and AAA size batteries for distribution where needed. Maybe ScoMo’s wife would like some too.
ScoMo’s wife could use a baseball bat.
Mercy, I think you might be using it incorrectly if there’s a chance you’d choke on the cord. 😂 But yes, keep me updated!
BL, Hahaha dying!! I walked into that one.
BL, on the bright side, every time you pop in a new set of batteries it’s like getting a new boyfriend.
There is a brand of batteries in Aus called “Everready”. It is a high selling brand.
Actually, new generation vibrators are rechargeable. No batteries needed.
Oh, I know because they advertise them on Spanish TV…..hahaha.
EmP,
Well there goes my claim to fame. Every time I think I have a brilliant idea someone else has thought about it.
Mercy, yes, it looks like the Chinese thought about it first!!
Omg NA. That was perfect.
BL,
You are a hoot! Love that we can be ourselves here and who better at providing pointless platitudes that survivors of narc abuse.
To the platitude = 🤮
Do you mean something like:
Let go what you love. If it returns to you, it belongs to you…?
It used to be one of my favourites……🙄
Yeah, if it returns it thinks it belongs to you because it’s a narc.
No, we belong to it.
Exactly.
FF,
“If it returns to you, it is a hoover”
I believed in it until HG quoted it in one of his articles.
That was when I noticed, that love is not leaving and coming back, but staying and not hurtig in the first place.
Hard lesson that was…
Love means never having to say you’re sorry – I just shake my head at this one
It is what it is – That is when somebody has no idea what is going on and doesn’t want to admit it.
All’s fair in love and war – How so? Enlighten me. This one makes no sense at all. I cringe every time I hear it.
That made me laugh and shake my head, both, misstacia. I absolutely loathed ‘Love Story’ the movie and the book and that quote I thought and still think is one of the most inane and self-serving I’d ever heard. I can’t believe there weren’t women out there, and men of course, who read/heard that and didn’t throw up a little In their mouths. Bleh.
Caity, Lmnhtsys is without a doubt barf worthy, it’s worthy of a projectile vom (think Family Guy e.gs if you’ve ever watched the show) . It goes beyond a small mouth chuck!
Those are good ones misstasia! I kind of like “it is what it is” because sometimes it really is what it is and there’s nothing you can do about it. Like a narcissist.
Mercy, except when it is used to deflect by a narcissist.
It is what it is – spew time, I mean really WTF.
Misstasia re it is what it effing is; or it is used by an N in the context of a word salad, or to deflect (very often) from meaningful discussion. Ex used to go all buddist on me with this one – a deflection.
The phrase is often used by empaths as well when they are so clueless, blind or afraid of how a situation could be changed. It is often easier to accept things as they are rather than to stand up and try to change it or at least acknowledge that it doesn’t have to be this way. It is an excuse to stick your head in the sand.
You’re right, I used to say it when I was exhausted by a circular conversation, word salad etc. and just wanted it to be over
Notme! thinking ‘it is what it is’ to temporarily find relief in the midst of a word salad and get some distance is completely understandable and makes sense. As Grail Knight would say, in exhaustion “you chose wisely”
Agreed misstasia! Iiwii is not useful for “letting go” either. I could be saying “it is what it is/was what it was” till the cows come home, re my ex. But without understanding *what* it is/was that it is/was,(ie KTN education), mindlessly saying such a platitude simply becomes a denial of my valid empathic trait of truth seeking. It’s a stupid, tongue twisting mind-number of a platitude!!!
Misstasia,
I am so glad you said that. I used that phrase last night in regard to my narc because I don’t want pity or for people to feel sorry for me. The reality of it is that the phrase diminishes the reality of a situation that totally sucks. It isn’t what it is and I will not say that again. Thank you.
Kristin, I think saying “it is what it is” to appease other people re why divorce etc is a good move. You know what it really is and that is the important thing. Only to say that explaining about your husband being an N to other people is more often than not a waste of your time. It also keeps you engaging via talking about the N. Additionally, if the the expectation is for support that is often not met. Telling others something like “it just didn’t work out” or similar (“run its course”, “could no longer get on”, “irreconcilable differences”) is a logical course of action and will help with no contact when the time comes. So I actually don’t see a problem in using ‘It is what it is’ as an explanatory phrase in the context you refer to. The phrase only diminishes the reality of the situation if you are saying it to yourself as a means to avoid understanding the reality.
AnnB,
Amazing how a phrase that we have heard our entire lives can have to many implications and meanings behind it! I totally agree that trying to explain a narc to others if a waste of time, like you said, I know the truth and that is all that matters. I have used it to minimize my situation because I don’t want pity but since I am not going to be telling anyone of the new realization that I am married to a narc, I won’t need to use it or any other phrase! Thank you xx
Kristin, I’ve got a specific beef with the phrase because ex used it to deflect from accountability when in the relationship. It drives me nuts when I hear people using it because my ET is really high about it. For e.g. I pretty much assume that any person who uses it (not here! but IRL) is a fake, self identifying spiritual person appropriating and distorting buddist (sp?) concepts to avoid critical thinking and accountability or to further their own agenda. If I hear it out of context, because of my ET, these assumptions are usually my default position. As with all other emotionally charged thinking, assumptions like that don’t really do much for me or anyone else. People do use it as detailed above but others do not.
I think maybe what you’re talking about in your comment is to do with how to react when others perhaps offer you pity or approach news of your separation by feeling sorry for you? And you don’t want that from others? That doesn’t actually help you , especially if it’s unsolicited? If that’s the case, I understand where you are coming from. Others often don’t really understand what’s gone down in someone else’s relationship and it’s worse in a situation with an N precisely because others’ generally speaking will not get the N factor. So it becomes about how to react to others, whose response to the news of the split is to pity you, without diminishing (to yourself) the reality of the situation.?
I’ve lost my train of thought but I get the pity thing. Pity, where it comes from understanding the fact of an N, ie here, becomes ‘reasonable’, ‘informed’ pity – it becomes empathy. or it becomes understanding.
If you can identify what it is that feels most supportive of you, I would say try to interact with those IRL who can offer that. I know from experience that can sometimes be hard to do, especially because of the N dynamic and ET. Thinking of you Kristin.
Kristin, I’m sorry! I think I have misunderstood as far as the pity thing goes. You weren’t referring to hubby and other’s pity in the context of pending separation. I forgot how new the realisation is that you are married to an N. You have plenty to deal with for the time being! Please ignore my previous comment re divorce/separation context. I’ve got your current situ mixed up in my head. Thinking of you with warmth and understanding.
AnnB,
No apology needed! I love the advice and opinions given because it makes me see things differently, gives clarity and helps me understand. Yes, I am new to all of this but when the time comes to leave, I have no plans on telling anyone. I don’t want to explain or justify my decision because that is all I have done for the past 28 years.
“…because of my ET, these assumptions are usually my default position.” That makes perfect sense and I totally understand why you feel that way. How can our though processes not be changed after being with a narc?!! The suspicion, doubt and emotional thinking overload. No one gets it unless they have been in our situation and even still, we struggle to understand it all!!!! Thank God for HG, I told him he is a true angel whether he believes it or not. You, too, are one of many and gels and I am eternally grateful for everyone on this site.
“Thinking of you with warmth and understanding.” That means so much, thank you as always. xx
Misstasia, interesting way of looking at it. The way I use the phrase is that, yes, I accept “it is what it is” and I cannot change the situation. Therefore it’s time to move on. Sometimes we can’t change what is happening and it becomes toxic to us to keep trying. “It is what it is” is final (for me). It’s my cue to exit. I see what you are saying though, and agree it could be used in that context as well.
Bill Clinton’s “it depends what the meaning of ‘is’ is.”
Highly skilled narciness with him. Her, not so much. The cold core keeps peeking through.
Just unbelievable! Smears! Set ups! His whore who is also an LPC authored the smear and now it is denied because a detective I hired who never found anything said if this woman is anywhere in your circle then she is guilty. So I let it be known to my faithful and true that she was in the middle of our circle by authoring the smear, so now the smear is denied. This is the best caveat of all. We are very “strong” Christians . The only reason I am still here is because my children are all very spiritual and I don’t want that hurt for them. But I am dying. I am a retired marriage counselor, isn’t that a good one? And I have no illusions he is going to one day declare honestly undying love for me, but I did think that one day his faith in God would make him uncomfortable enough that he would just be obedient to God. I don’t need his love but I do want fidelity if I am going to live here. I have not been able to catch him in anything he could not deny. Except the disease of 7 years ago that brought all this to light. But he says that disease, genital hsv1, has been in his body for 30 years which is highly unlikely as that is not the nature of the disease. Let’s see some unbelievable other things. Oh he has told me several times how he nearly never takes his wedding band off. Guess he thinks that is supposed to give me comfort. I just don’t comment. I think his whore probably puts him up to saying that because she knows exactly where my brain goes with that. The other day I’m a counseling session he declared he wanted a vow that I would say no more. He’s asking for a vow after woman after woman with whom he has broken his vows???? I did ask if someone put him up to asking for that. He was quite perturbed by my question. Anyway I think she gives him things to say or do because she knows where my mind will go, but he doesn’t realize it is a set up. Just more than amazing!!!
Hello, Betty.
Please don’t be hard on yourself for being a therapist and going through what you are. Sometimes it is easier to help others see what we are too blind to see for ourselves.
I don’t know what religion you practice. Can I ask you what God’s will is for you as His will never includes abuse of any kind?
You don’t want your husband’s love. I hope you realize that you deserve more than spending the rest of your life wondering, doubting, praying for peace, anger, questioning, hiring detectives, and constantly testing yourself for diseases.
I am assuming that you believe that he and a close friend are involved romantically and that she is manipulating him to hurt you. It sounds like on one hand you know he has the past and the ability to hurt you; and then the other hand it sounds like you are finding an excuse for him. I hate that conflict of not trusting someone but wanting to.
Have you thought of a consultation with HG?
Betty,
What a situation you have, I am so sorry. You are in the right place and as Getting There said, please consider consulting with HG. Hang in there and know that God has this.
Happy New Year, HG! I have just found this one:
“Every day that you open your eyes is a new day and another chance to get it right.”
E.B.
My son’s father, who is a Midranger, used to constantly quote me something along those lines when we were in a relationship. It was BS. He had inspirational quotes to try to get me to seek his approval.