A Very Performing Narcissist?

 

A VERY PERFORMING NARCISSIST

Amber Heard is famous in her own right, although many will know of her through her marriage to world famous actor Johnny Depp. Both have come to additional prominence as a consequence of subsequent divorce and allegation and counter allegation of abusive behaviour towards the other.

Accordingly, Ms Heard first goes under the Tudorscope. For the hard of understanding, this is not an article espousing the merits of Ms Heard or otherwise, this is a blog about narcissism and the behaviour of Ms Heard and Mr Depp is analysed in that context. It is therefore for the purposes of wider understanding and education and explaining what is happening. Don’t make the error of bandying around allegations of sexism, racism or any other -ism apart from narcissism. 

(Observations are contained in bold and italic)

Amber Laura Heard is an American actress and model. Born and raised in Texas, she made her film debut in a minor supporting role in the sports drama Friday Night Lights , followed by a series of other small roles in television and film. Her first leading role was in the horror film All the Boys Love Mandy Lane (2006).

Heard’s breakthrough came in 2008 with roles in the action film Never Back Down and in thePineapple Express, which were both box office successes. The same year, she received the Breakthrough Award at Young Hollywood Awards. Heard continued her career with roles in films such as The Informers , The Stepfather , Zombieland , and The Joneses.

In 2011, she played the female lead opposite opposite Johnny Depp in The Rum Diary; neither were critically nor commercially successful.

In 2017, Heard was also named a global spokesperson for the cosmetics giant L’Oréal Paris. I

In addition to her acting career, Heard engages in activism for causes such as LGBTQ rights and domestic and sexual violence awareness. She is an American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) ambassador and has been named a Human Rights Champion for the Stand Up for Human Rights campaign by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights.

So far, a successful actress and model who also engages in activism.

Amber Heard met her future Husband Johnny Depp on the set of the 2011 movie The Rum Diary. Johnny Depp was said to be enamoured with his on-screen love interest and courted her. He showered her with gifts and went so far as to buy her a horse and name a beach on his private isle “Amber’s cove” because he had noticed that it looked like the curvature of her hip when viewed on a map. 

Despite his infatuation with his new girlfriend, Johnny’s inner circle of friends was less than impressed and warned him against marrying Amber. (Potential objectivity and ability to see red flags of problematic behaviour or over-protective of a friend who is focussed on his new romantic relationship rather than his friends.)

It was reported that Johnny fell out with his sister Christi, who had been a long-standing manager of his day-to-day affairs, over his relationship with Amber. (Potential objectivity and ability to see red flags of problematic behaviour or over-protective of a relative who is focussed on his new romantic relationship rather than his relative and business advisor.)

Several associates advised him not to get married to his girlfriend. (Potential objectivity and ability to see red flags of problematic behaviour or over-protective behaviour in respect of an associate who is focussed on his new romantic relationship rather than them.)

(One friend advising against the continuance of a relationship could be the result of jealousy towards the new arrival. More friends forming a similar view starts to create a pattern, but one must be mindful of cross-pollution as the ´threatened´friends bond together towards a “common enemy”. However, the reports of such early warning from numerous people in three distinct groups suggests that there were a number of prominent red flags at an early juncture, which were seen by people not entirely objective and removed, but certainly more removed than Depp from the relationship. It is common in narcissistic ensnarements for the primary victim not to notice certain behaviours or dismiss them/attribute them to something else (the effect of obscuring Emotional Thinking) whereas less involved individuals notice and pay heed to the warnings. The number of individuals and groups here supports the proposition that early problems were apparent.

Some of Depp´s friends later claimed that he had cut himself off from those looking out for him. (This may be the response of jealous friends, but again isolation caused by the narcissist (either directly or indirectly)  to ensure that third party influences do not threaten the control sought over the primary target is a common manipulation in the narcissistic dynamic, especially a romantic one).

Amber Heard and Johnny Depp got married on February 3rd, 2015 in a private civil ceremony without a prenuptial agreement. 

A month later, Johnny was in Australia to shoot a movie and spoke with Amber about his intention to enter into a post-nuptial agreement, which caused her to fly into a rage.

(Action offends sense of entitlement, seeks to pin accountability, threatens control resulting in the ignition of fury hence the response of rage.)

In his latest declaration, Johnny described the incident as follows:

“While I was in Australia filming a movie approximately one month after I married Ms. Heard, on a day where my then-lawyer tried to discuss with Ms. Heard the need that she sign a post-nuptial agreement with me, she went berserk and began throwing bottles at me. The first bottle sailed past my head and missed, but then she threw a large glass vodka bottle. The bottle struck the marble countertop where my hand was resting and exploded. The projectile’s impact shattered the bone in my finger and entirely severed the tip of my finger … I had to have 3 surgeries to reconstruct my finger and contracted MRSA three times. I feared that I would lose my finger, my arm, and my life.” (Destruction of property and physical injury – rudimentary manipulations following the ignition of fury.)

 He further mentioned that Amber put out a cigarette on his right cheek after having injured his finger with the second bottle before he was taken to the hospital. (Physical violence)

Depp returned to Australia a month later, on April 21st 2015 to finish shooting his movie.

In April 2015, Heard and Depp breached Australia’s biosecurity laws when they failed to declare their two Yorkshire terriers to the Australian Customs Service when they flew by private jet into Queensland, where he was working on Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales(Sense of entitlement, rejection of accountability.)

Heard pleaded guilty to falsifying quarantine documents, stating that she had made a mistake due to sleep deprivation. (Blameshifting)

She was placed on a $1,000 one-month good behaviour bond for producing a false document; Heard and Depp also released a video in which they apologised for their behaviour and urged people to adhere to the biosecurity laws.

Depp later revealed that the bungle around the customs paperwork was due to her having had a bitter falling out with a staffer she sacked just before the trip to Australia. (Revision of History, Contentious Relationship With Others) The criminal charges of illegally importing animals were dismissed and Heard avoided possible jail-time of up to ten years. She was instead placed on a one-month good behaviour bond. 

In May 2016, Amber filed for divorce, stating “irreconcilable differences”, only 15 months after they got married. Less than a week later, she filed a domestic violence restraining order against Johnny, which was denied and only a temporary restraining order was granted. (The relationship between the two had ended and the commencement of divorce proceedings by Heard is a further act of manipulation designed to control Depp. Most divorces occur (not all) because a narcissist is involved, that is why the relationship ends and also is why most divorces are contentious and problematic. (see Why Is Divorce So Hard?) Seeking a restraining order is also an act of manipulation by seeking to assert control

Allegations of Domestic Violence

In the court documents filed as part of the divorce, Amber stated the following:

“During the entirety of our relationship, Johnny has been verbally and physically abusive to me” (Such an allegation may indeed be founded on evidence, however, where a narcissist is involved, such an allegation is either (1) A fallacy and projection where the narcissist uses the believed violence to assert control over the alleged (incorrect) perpetrator and garner control over third parties through seeking support and sympathy , or (2) founded on being the recipient of verbal and/or physical abuse when the victim has fought back because of the narcissists abuse of them. The narcissist then uses the “fightback” as a basis for Deflection from their own behaviour, to Blame Shift to the victim and Pity Play to others with regard to the apparent unprovoked verbal and/or physical violence that has been suffered. Whether Heard is the True Victim or is Playing the Victim stands to be assessed further.)

And further:

“I endured excessive emotional, verbal and physical abuse from Johnny, which has included angry, hostile, humiliating and threatening assaults to me whenever I questioned his authority or disagreed with him.”  (See points raised above.)

These statements soon spread around the world, accompanied with an image of Amber´s bruised face that was published as evidence of the physical abuse she endured.

Depp denied the allegations, stating that his ex-wife was attempting to secure a premature financial resolution by way of her abuse allegations.  (If this is correct, it is a common manipulation by a narcissist to make such allegations in order to assert control (1) over the True Victim (2) Deflect accountability (3) Garner support and sympathy from third parties (4) Preserve the Facade , and (5) Maximise the financial aspect. It is also worth pointing out that asserting an individual is doing this to secure a premature financial resolution may be the attempt to assert control (1) over a victim (2) deflect from accountability (3) preserve the facade (4) garner support and sympathy from third parties , and (5) preserve the threatened financial position as best as possible. Which way is it to be interpreted, against her, against him, against both? More evidence must be considered.)

He also said that when Amber showed herself to the world on the 24th of May 2016 with what looked to be a bruised face, she merely had it painted on. As proof, he submitted elevator footage from their home on that same day, showing Ambers injury free face. She was chatting with friends in the elevator of the Eastern Columbia Building in Downtown Los Angeles where Johnny formerly owned a floor with five penthouses that was his and Ambers home, seemingly in a carefree and cheerful mood. (Such evidence tends to suggest that the allegations of abuse were at best mistaken and at worst manufactured. The manufacturing of such an allegation with accompanying manufactured behaviour, painting on the supposed injury, demonstrates an act of manipulation designed to assert control over the victim.

Late in August 2016, Amber and Johnny reached a 7 million divorce settlement and five months later, on January 13th in 2017, their divorce was finalized.

Abused? Me too!

In the wake of the allegations made against Harvey Weinstein and the subsequent rise of the #MeToo movement, Amber made several public appearances and held passionate speeches about “speaking out” and how “she will not be silenced” about the abuse she had to suffer at the hands of Johnny. She also wrote an article in the Washington Post, referring to herself as “a public figure representing domestic abuse” and complained about the backlash she received for speaking out:

“For months, I rarely left my apartment, and when I did, I was pursued by camera drones and photographers on foot, on motorcycles and in cars. […] Tabloid outlets had posted pictures of me (and) spun them in a negative light. I felt as though I was on trial in the court of public opinion.” (The “backlash” is perceived as a Threat To Control and therefore the narcissist must assert control over a variety of Tertiary Sources (strangers and acquaintances in the fuel matrix) with such a comment which is a Pity Play and Facade Management.)

She further desired to rally fellow females behind her, stating:

“I want to ensure that women who come forward to talk about violence receive more support […] We can work together to demand changes to laws and rules and social norms – to right the imbalances that have shaped our lives.” (Facade Management)

These lines, along with the statement that she considers herself a public figure representing domestic abuse, could be interpreted as the passionate rallying cries of a woman who stands up for what’s right at the cost of her own privacy,  her selfless sacrifice making her the Joan of Arc of the “MeToo”-Movement. (Facade Management /Pity Play or Sympathy Symphony given the scale of the address)

It is therefore worth noting that in August 2016, she retracted her request for a restraining order and dismissed the domestic violence case against Johnny with prejudice, meaning she cannot re-file it. This happened only shortly before Johnny agreed to the previously mentioned 7 million settlement later that same month. 

(Why would she speak so passionately about her horrible experiences with domestic violence to the Media but not follow through with her own case against Depp. The reason being that having secured control (from her perspective) through such a significant financial settlement over Depp, she then had no further need to assert that control further and thus retracts the domestic violence case. That in itself does not mean that the withdrawal does not mean the domestic violence did not happen, it demonstrates the hypocrisy of the narcissist by issuing a rallying cry (the Me Too activity which bolsters the Facade and asserts control over Secondary and Tertiary Sources in the Fuel Matrix) but not matching that with personal actions (because the need no longer exists). This evidences Hypocrisy and Compartmentalisation. The narcissist will say one thing and do the other so long as this maintains control and the narcissism prevents the narcissist from “seeing” this hypocrisy. Furthermore, given the evidence presented above it is highly likely that the allegations of domestic violence may have been fabricated or (most likely of all) arose from incidences of “fighting back” and were seized on to Deflect and Blameshift and were also Exaggerated upon.

Temper Tantrums 

Heard had spoken in detail about the abuse she had suffered and cried many tears during her interviews regarding this topic. She received considerable media support which would amount to the provision of fuel and Facade Maintenance.

When one takes a closer look into the court documents regarding this case, a situation presents itself that – based on the evidence provided within them – is quite different from how Heard chose to portray the situation to the media.

Depphas since filed a 50 Million. USD defamation lawsuit because Amber Heard referred to herself as a “public figure representing domestic violence” in an article she wrote for the Washington Post in December 2018. He presented further evidence and new witnesses to support his case.

Heard claimed that Depp showed up late to her birthday party on the 21st of April 2016 and that he was inebriated and high. After the other guests had left the party, Amber claimed the following:

“Johnny and I had a discussion about his absence from my birthday celebration which deteriorated into a bad argument that started with Johnny throwing a magnum size bottle of champagne at the wall and a wine glass on me and the floor – both which shattered.”

Amber went on to explain Johnny grabbed her by the shoulders and pushed her onto the bed, blocking the bedroom door, then grabbing her by the hair and pushing her violently on the floor. After yelling at her for several minutes, he “stormed out of the condominium (…) tossing aside and breaking nearly everything in his path”. (Such behaviour again paints Depp as an abusive individual. However, in light of the points made above with regard to a pattern of behaviour, evidence which contradicts Heard and further evidence below which contradicts her, her behaviour is viewed through the prism of not victim, but abuser and that of the narcissist. Thus her allegations amount to manipulations as either Lies, Twisting of the Truth, Blame Shifting and Deflection.)

Johnny stated in his testimony that Amber was the one to erupt because he had shown up late to her birthday party and that she punched him in the face two times whilst screaming insults at him. (The late arrival wounds the narcissist resulting in a Threat to Control. This causes an Ignition of Fury resulting in Heated Fury through Verbal Violence and Physical Violence.)

Amber was the one who had been drinking and when she became aggressive Johnny defended himself by grabbing Amber’s arms to prevent her from punching him again, telling her to stop. He then pushed her away from him onto the bed and told her he was leaving and that she should not follow him. He left the apartment building and returned the next day to find that Amber had defecated in their bed as a “prank” and then gone off to Coachella with her friends. Johnny provided the court with photographical evidence and Amber did not deny that there had been faeces in the bed but claimed that it was from her Yorkshire Terrier. The housekeeper that had to clean up the poop that morning later stated in her testimony that the poop was “too big to be from their dog”.  (This photographic evidence is independent evidence and supported by witness testimony which contradicts Heard´s version of events (once again). Depp´s retreat from the scene amounts to wounding and therefore Heard must assert control over him. She cannot do so directly as he has absented her presence. She does so by defecating in the bed and gains Thought Fuel from imagining his response to this act and therefore feels she has control once again. Some narcissists would pursue the victim to assert control badgering them, or ring and text the victim, or turn to third parties to complain about the behaviour of the victim in order to seek to assert control. In this instance, Heard did so by defecating in the bed as an act of Provocation.)

In Another’s Arms

Speaking of another instance when Depp had apparently physically assaulted her, Heard claimed that he was yet again drunk and high and suddenly became jealous, claiming that Amber had an affair with her then co-star James Franco. (Provocation, Deflection)

Since then, footage of the apartment buildings elevator has been made public, showing that Heard had Franco over one night. Heard could be seen entering the elevator on May 22nd 2016 about an hour before midnight to go to the garage level. Moments later, she re-entered the elevator with a man now confirmed to be James Franco, he covered his face with the hood of his sweater whilst Heard kept her head low to disguise her face from where she knew the elevator camera to be. Franco rested his head on Heard as the elevator took them up and Heard also leant against him. They left the elevator together on the level where Depp owns all five of the apartments. Given the secretive demeanour of both parties, the late hour at which Franco arrived and the fact that Depp was out of town when Heard invited Franco over, this supports the proposition that Heard was engaging in extra marital activity with Franco. (Devaluation of Depp as Intimate Partner Primary Source, Infidelity, Seduction of Intimate Partner Secondary Source.)

The receptionist also testified to having seen Elon Musk visit Amber several times as well, always when Johnny was out of town. (Further act of Devaluation)

Acts of Violence

Heard wanted Depp to be investigated as to whether he had ever been violent with one of his past partners. It is invariably the case that an abuser is a narcissist and therefore a pattern of abusive/violent behaviour occurs with previous partners because of the way that the narcissists ingrained defence mechanisms operate.

Both Depp´s ex-Wife as well as his daughter have publicly spoken out on behalf of him and defended him, confirming that they have never witnessed Depp engaging in violent behaviour. 

It is however noteworthy that Amber would make such a specific request, given her own personal history. Amber had been arrested in 2009 for physical violence against her then girlfriend Tasya van Ree. Amber later accused the female cop responsible for her case of misogyny and homophobia, the cop has spoken out about this, noting that she is a lesbian and an LBTQ activist herself. (Compartmentalisation, Hypocrisy, Ignited Fury, Physical Violence, Blame Shifting, Deflection, Lack of Accountability.)

Sexual Identity

Heard publicly came out at GLAAD’s 25th anniversary event in 2010 but has stated, “I don’t label myself one way or another—I have had successful relationships with men and now a woman. I love who I love; it’s the person that matters.”

Of her decision to come out, she said: “I think when I became aware of my role in the media, I had to ask myself an important question ‘Am I part of the problem?’ And I think that when millions and millions of hard-working, taxpaying Americans are denied their rights and denied their equality you have to ask yourself what are the factors that are an epidemic problem and that’s what this is.”

Heard was in a relationship with photographer Tasya van Ree from 2008 to 2012.

Narcissism manifests in heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual individuals. Evidence of sexual fluidity does not, in itself mean an individual is a narcissist.

Sexual fluidity is however more prevalent in narcissists, owing to a lack of self and the chameleon ability that narcissist have to present whatever “form” enables the assertion of control and gathering of fuel. The narcissist will be whatever he or she needs to be, to ensure control is obtained and maintained, since control and fuel are central to the needs of the narcissist.

Be Careful What You Wish For

Heard sought to obtain Depp’s medical records including any evidence of drug use or drug treatment. Depp has spoken about his dependency on pain killers and struggles to get off of them and had submitted his medical records.

Dr. David Kipper is a specialist in drug and addiction treatments who played an integral role as Heard had hoped to get Dr. Kipper to testify on her behalf about Johnny’s drug use. (Smearing= This attempt backfired as Dr. Kipper has since testified against Heard having witnessed her abusive behaviour towards Depp on multiple occasions. When Depp’s side submitted the medical records required of him, they stated the following:

“And included in the records that will be produced today, if they haven’t been already, are the records of Dr Kipper. Dr Kipper is also a fact witness. We expect him to testify that he saw, he personally witnessed violence between the couple, but the violence was initiated by Ms. Heard. And Mr. Depp did not even respond physically to that violence. He will testify to that as a fact witness. So this is a case of be careful what you wish for.” (Physical Violence, Ignition of Fury, Hypocrisy, Compartmentalisation, Lack of Future Planning.)

It was claimed by several media outlets that the trial was postponed by 6 months (and is therefore to be held on the 3rd of August instead of the 3rd of February) because Johnny failed to meet the deadline to submit them. This is incorrect and may well be an attempt (which has failed) by Heard and her advisers to manipulate public opinion and attack Depp (Smearing and Facade Management).

 Heard failed to submit her own medical records thus far. (Sense of Entitlement) Furthermore, the postponing had nothing to do with the submission of medical records at all. Judge Bruce D. White, who resides over the case, noted that not only did Depp provide his medical records on time, but that this was also not the reason the court granted the continuance to begin with. Judge White stated:

“It was granted at the request of both parties because of what were reported to me to be difficulties taking deposition of people taken in California. So I can only suspect that it is someone on the defences’ side that made the press release.”

 

Amber has spoken passionately about how she was a victim of domestic violence and how she will not be silenced but will speak up about the abuse she had to endure. She has also encouraged other victims to use their voices, which is interesting given that she is now on her 3rd attempt to try and dismiss Johnny’s defamation case against her. She also filed a motion for protective order, attempting to prevent any evidence against her from becoming available to the public. This motion was dismissed.  

Amber Heard has now hired Harvey Weinstein’s abuse-specializing lawyer Roberta Kaplan to defend her.

She has also hired Paul Barresi, a former pornstar turned private detective in hopes of digging up any insinuations about Johnny that could be used against him. Barresi takes great pride in his abilities as he has recently been on a podcast stating the following:

“In the life of a celebrity, or anyone else for that matter, if you want to hurt someone, character assassination is the way to go. And the irony is, it isn’t necessary that whatever is said be true. The damage can be done in the mere telling of it.” (Character Assassination, Facade Management, Control Through Court Process, Deflection)

 

Death Threats and Innuendo

In October 2015 on the the US-Show “Overhaulin”, Depp tricked Heard with the help of her father into believing her car had been sold in parts and pieces by a man called David Killackey. A “police officer” reported the situation to Amber, claiming that her father had punched Killackey for selling Heard´s car to which Amber responded:

“And my Dad only hit him once? I don’t blame him. I’ll fucking kill him!”

She proceeded to flip off the man in question who had been standing at a distance. Depp then told her about the prank and surprised her with her re-designed and now glossy cherry red Mustang.

While Mr. Killackey did not actually sell Heard´s car, he was indeed Depp´s mechanic and recounted the events of the show and what followed after in his sworn declaration.

After the show, Mr. Killackey went to the Eastern Columbia building in which Depp owned five penthouses in which he, Amber and by then also several of Heard´s friends lived rent-free (Sense of Entitlement, Grandiosity). Heard had asked him to instruct her on how the newly installed touchscreen in her Mustang worked and how to interface her iPhone with the onboard system. He arrived at the appointed time but Heard was not available, it took her three hours before she came down from the penthouse to the parking garage. (Sense of Entitlement, Lack of Accountability) Mr. Killackey then stated the following:

“After she came down we found the Mustang, she got in the driver´s seat and I the front passenger seat. She seemed to be in a very happy mood. We spent a moment exchanging greetings. She then said something weird: “Ooh here we are alone together in a parked car in a dark parking garage. We could do anything in here and nobody would see us.” (Manipulation through Flirtation, Promised Gain, Boundary Violation)

He did not reply directly to her observation nor did he make eye contact but only responded with “Oookay, let me show you how the sound system works.”

He then showed her the touchscreen display connected to her phone and noticed that her phone was already connected to one contact: Dr. David Kipper. Mr. Killackey was also Dr. Kipper´s mechanic and asked her “Oh do you know Dr. Kipper too?”. He then stated:

“Amber’s response was completely unexpected, she turned to me shockingly icy and said “how the FUCK do you know David Kipper?” I quickly apologized for asking and said it was none of my business and told her Dr. Kipper was a client of mine. The tension in the air was extreme at that point while she gave me the silent treatment then she quickly exited the car while saying: “It’s none of your fucking business.” She walked to the penthouse elevator and I never saw her again.”  (Note the shift from flirtation to aggression – Black and White Thinking, Response to Threat to Control, Provocation, Verbal Aggression, Silent Treatment.)

Mr. Killackey continued to work on Depp´s cars and Heard´s Mustang as well but after Depp split from Heard, he told Mr. Killackey to separate the billing from Heard´s car in approximately June 2016.

Heard´s first reaction after receiving this information was to verbally abuse him over the phone using expletives, threats and a continued rant over what she claimed was an unfortunate financial downturn of her personal finances caused by Johnny. (Threat to Control, Sense of Entitlement, Victim Mentality, Verbal Aggression, Threat.)

She said to Mr. Killackey “you motherfucker, you’re screwing me!”, claimed that there was a legal agreement between her and Johnny that he would pay for her bills but failed to provide said agreement, likely because it does not exist. (Lie, Sense of Entitlement, Verbal Aggression, Need To Assert Control.)

She then went on to abuse Killackey verbally using words such as “Fucker, asshole, motherfucker” and said he was “a dishonourable piece of shit” stating that “Johnny will not pay my rent, he will not pay my bills, fuck him and fuck you!”. (Verbal Aggression)

 

A Mother’s Love

Heard had claimed that one of the first people she confided in when Depp allegedly started physically abusing her, was her mother, since she was someone who was familiar with these kinds of scenarios and would understand. 

However, Heard´s Mother is no stranger to her daughter’s wrath herself. After having a short, friendly interaction with a reporter on the red carpet at the 2015 Toronto International Film Festival, Heard was caught on tape rushing towards mother in anger and hissing at her to “Never make eye contact. You embarrass me.”, whilst her mother obediently motioned to walk ahead of her, making Amber a way through the crowd. Amber´s comment could be interpreted as concern for her less press-experienced mother. However, Amber´s angry hand motions and baleful glare along with the verbal put-down in public demonstrate an alternative driver. (Lack of Emotional Empathy, Ignited Fury, Provocation, Assertion of Control, Verbal Insult, Grandiosity.)

Neither David nor Paige Heard ever disputed anything Depp stated with regards to not having been abusive to Amber and her having violently assaulted him. 

The information above is only part of a mass of information which exists, however from this information one sees evidence through a pattern of repeated behaviour

  • The telling of lies
  • The assertion of control
  • The response to a perceived threat to control
  • Facade mangement
  • The operation of a fuel matrix
  • Physical violence
  • The ignition of fury
  • Damage to Property
  • Infidelity
  • Provocation
  • Smearing
  • Lack of Accountability
  • Lack of Future Planning
  • Compartmentalisation
  • Sense of Entitlement
  • Grandiosity
  • Flirtation
  • Boundary Violation
  • Promised Gain
  • Silent Treatment
  • Black and White Thinking
  • Verbal Aggression
  • Threat
  • Operation of Coterie
  • Lack of Emotional Empathy

Based on the information provided, the above means that Amber Heard is A Very Performing Narcissist.

Want more about the dynamic between Heard and Depp?

Depp V Heard – Telephone Analysis

(With thanks to DG for additional research.)

 

 

 

199 thoughts on “A Very Performing Narcissist?

  1. L. Carwell says:

    HG,
    I was wondering if you’d be writing on this subject, and I’m very glad you did.
    No one deserves abuse, and I believe that male victims are at a greater disadvantage because society at large cannot accept that predation can exist in women.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed.

  2. Darth Renardus says:

    And finally, the N word comes out.

    Ive been watching the Libel trial. I take a professional interest!

    Now, I have never fancied Depp. He’s a bit too ‘Fey’ for me. No slur intended. I do think however he is a genious actor with a ginormous about of personal demons. His English accent in Sleepy Hollow is beyond. The camera loves him.

    And what is Amber Turd? A chancer. Pretty but only intelligence and talent lasts (hopefully) and not looks. Never looks.

    Obvs AH is a narc. And quite a strange one too. Her continued pursunce of Depp resulting in the Sun vs Depp libel trial is really quite odd. Most GEUINE lawyers advise against Libel. Very tricksy. But these ones did. Hmm.

    I am affeared The Sun might win. It’s not usually the case that print journos do but I’ve got a funny feeling about this one.

    I think Depp is a very damaged Empath. A genious actor who got sucked in. I do not doubt he has anger management issues but it’s due to extreme provocation plus own personal demons.

    Fortunately, he has the money to defend himself.

    Why cant I shake the feeling that there is far more to this than meets the eye?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is not and yes she is a narcissist, I explained as such in detail months ago.

      1. Darth Renardus says:

        Hg

        My mind running overdrive again! And of course you did.

        I’m more interested interested in Depp. I hadnt taken too much of an intrest until the Libel. Just something I was hearing on the allegations against Depp were not ringing true.

    2. Violetta says:

      DR:

      HG analyzed that phone call.

      Btw, I had a very lonnnnng reply to you about Huxley productions and my (currently, at least), dreary employment prospects, which took a while to go through moderation (that’ll teach me to go into Proust mode). It’s up now at Classroom Narcissist.

    3. Cathy says:

      Think she’s classic narc. They forgot to name projection as one of the behaviors in the list. Though Depp himself may not know it he’s figured it out and calls it mirroring. It’s the narcissists confession. They accuse the other of doing what they’ve done but at least you are forearmed as you do know what they’re going to do next.eg what ever they’ve accused you of doing. She probably really believes she’s the victim. They are also usually confused’ about details and try to confuse their accusers to deflect from answering specifics. She’s been confused quite a bit. It’s reassuring that people are seeing this but hoping the judge does. Depp will probably have ptsd for the rest of his life. Cannot understand why his legal team are not asking her more specifics as once they do this the contradictory statements will escalate. Most narcs justify their behavior as revealed in the audio between them on a number of occasions. She’s controlling ( another classic behavior for both a domestic abuser and Narc) she won’t let him speak. Gaslights him ( she was hitting him but not punching him er?!) she has to do this because she’s the victim ( she’s been exposed as to who she really is) Other classic behaviors – rules not for her above the law – falsifies papers for her dogs into Australia and tries to ( another classic) scapegoat someone else for it. And as mentioned No boundaries takes someone else’s sexual assault case as her own. Also she needs attention and it doesn’t matter whether it’s good or bad as long as she gets it. No accountability ‘ he made her do it’ he reflects this bk to her. This woman should be put making license plates and kept away from other human beings as extremely dangerous. She puts an ugly slant on everything innocent. Protectiveness ( all past relationships mentioned even Kate Moss has stated this) that they felt safe with him but with her it’s him being controlling. She’s certainly not scared of him if the tapes are anything to go by and his need to get away from her ( he has realized she’s off her bin so tries to appease her) Strange she accuses a person who she claims has threatened to kill her of trying to get away from an argument ..er …?? and not relieved as a normal person would be or try to get away herself which would be the behavior of the abused. Yes it’s depp that tries to get away guess who the victim is??? She belittles him (Domestic abuse behavior). She has been accused of domestic abuse in a past relationship ( she has form) also she has made a false allegation before and got called on it by a cop at the scene . She’s ultimately a pathological liar as people with npd are. It’s not about the money it’s about narcissistic rage you don’t leave a narcissist without serious consequences. Taking photographs to humiliate him eg Falls asleep with ice cream on him rather than helping him. These are just some of the examples. He may indeed be a depressed awkward stoner with a history of recreational drug use and eccentric quirky behavior and immature lavatorial Humor but a domestic abuser wife beater he ain’t. (He also has insight into his own behavior unlike ah) But evidence shows she definitely is a spouse beater As She admits to hitting him on the tapes . She never got the memo. These are just the examples that jump out but plenty more. Think he has great courage to take this on not once but twice.

      1. Renarde says:

        Cathy

        The paragraph is your friend.

      2. Renarde says:

        Cathy

        A lot to unpick here in your incredibly detailed post.

        The first is the pictures. This resonated very strongly with what my father did to my brother. He videos him whist completely obliterated. What was worse is that Dad would whip is phone out and say, look? Both my mum and I refused to. Its cruel. He didnt see it.

        Heard has form for DV but Depp doesnt. Strange that? As to trashing of rooms. Yeah sure I’ve done that. I obliterated my own bedroom as a teenager and later on, I got so angry at Dads provocations, I put the phone down and kicked the shit out of my bath.

        I’ve looked at the injuries to Heard. I have my own pictures of the black eye he gave me. He was attested. Police took pictures as did I.

        I look at Heard and go, ‘But, I cannot really see anything?’

        It doesnt help Depp that he has substance abuse issues. Equally, that doesnt make him a batterer of people.

        No one is coming out of this well but equally, what choice did Depp have?

  3. Violetta says:

    Anyone who misses a narc ex should take a good look at Heard and Depp as well as the Sussexes. Both Amber and Megs are playing a solid game of “No, you are the one with mental issues!”

    HG, do you ever get tired of being right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, it is a burden I am willing to bear.

      1. Empath007 says:

        Hahahaha ! That made me LOL.

        So in other words, If being right is wrong…. you’d want to be right. lol.

        1. Violetta says:

          Nonsense, he’s just demonstrating his Altruism.

  4. Violetta says:

    At last, the n-word:

    DM headline: I decided to divorce Amber Heard when she defecated in our bed: Johnny Depp calls his ex-wife a ‘narcissistic sociopath’ who attacked HIM and denies ever hitting her at blockbuster libel court showdown

    1. Violetta says:

      And the hits keep on coming:

      DEPP: If I had known then what I know now, I would have seen the red flag warning signs, but I did not. She was beautiful, seemingly incredibly interested in me and my work, and I fell for it. She bombed me with what appeared to be love.

    2. K says:

      Violetta
      Agonizingly slow but it’s happening more and more. Kathy Reichs recent book: A Conspiracy of Bones mentions the N-word.

      CNN: Trump and Pence: a two-man Covid-19 gaslighting act, Opinion by Frida Ghitis

      1. Violetta says:

        K:

        She praised his movies when they were dating, later admitting that she had never seen any of them.

        Um…what?

        I’m not a particular Johnny Depp fan, but I’ve seen quite a few: Chocolate Factory, Cry-Baby, From Hell, The Libertine, Finding Neverland, Into the Woods, Pirates, Ed Wood,etc., etc. because Dahl, Waters, Costumes, Costumes, Costumes, Did the show, My friends wanted to, Tim Burton, Tim Burton, Tim Burton.

        Heard sounds like the kind of person who wants to be a star, but isn’t terribly interested in acting. Depp was never one of my crushes, but his chameleonic abilities should be respected by every serious actor.

        1. K says:

          Violetta
          You gotta love Mirroring.

          Depp is ok, the kids and I enjoyed Pirates of the Caribbean but I had never heard of AH until I read about her here, if she isn’t careful, her career will fizzle out.

          “The tables have turned and now Amber Heard is finding that her career as a [sic] A-list Hollywood actress might be over. She has reportedly been kicked from Aquaman 2.”

          https://www.sausageroll.com.au/entertainment/movies/amber-heard-to-be-fired-from-aquaman-2-and-other-hollywood-movies/

          1. NarcAngel says:

            It appears Amber Heard’s career has shit the bed.

            Wah wah wah wahhh…

          2. K says:

            NarcAngel
            Hahahahaha…thanks for the laugh!

          3. Violetta says:

            K and NA:

            With connotations Joe Jackson may never have anticipated:

            Won’t you be my number two
            Me and number one are through
            There won’t be too much to do
            Just smile when I feel blue

            And there’s not much left of me
            What you get is what you see
            Is it worth the energy
            I leave it up to you

            And if you got something to say to me
            Don’t try to play your funny games on me
            I know that it’s really not fair of me
            But my heart’s seen too much action

            And every time I look at you
            You’ll be who I want you to
            And I’ll do what I can do
            To make a dream or two come true
            If you’ll be my
            If you’ll be my number two

        2. K says:

          Violetta
          Hahahahaha…that is why I always strive to be number one.

  5. Cat says:

    @Anm
    I am on the same page as you about them probably both being narcissists. But I reflect on the fact that both Winona, and Vanessa Paradis ensure and testify that he is a kind, loving person and father, never ever having abused them.
    Makes me think.

  6. Anm says:

    I dont think I read or commented about this yet. I think they are both narcissist. However, the situation blew way out of proportion due to the legal system. I see flaws by both sides and their attorneys, starting with Amber Heard flying off the handle while communicating with Depps then attorney. The attorney should have first sent them both to a professional therapist who has experience with legal matters. Therapy doesn’t work on Narcissist, but a very well trained therapist, who specializes in alternative dispute resolution could have talked the heard about their marriage problems, and get her to sign a post-nuptial. Narcissist view attorneys as bullies, which they usually are. Depp’s Legal Team is then always dealing with damage control with this issue. Amber Heards heard team filed the restraining order as a way to get Depp to pay Heards legal fees. Here in USA, most states adopted the No Fault Divorce clause, however, judgements for finances during a divorce can favor one party significantly if they can prove: 1. The other has a higher income, and 2. Other party engaged in litigation or behavior misconduct that required protective orders. There wasn’t any children involved, and there was a primary emphasis on exposing the other side as being the aggressor. Once this game starts getting played, the attorneys, the sleazy private investigators, and expert witnesses all laugh their way to the bank. I believe Johnny Depp is worth atleast half a billion dollars, if he wasn’t targeting for his money by heard, you can bet her attorneys did.

  7. Sasha voja says:

    Thank you as usual HG for shedding life altering light. Heard/Depp drama- small but significant detail- Heard filed for divorce on the heels of the death of Depp’s mother. Only after press criticism of this move did she file for restraining order.

  8. wildviolet22 says:

    Although I haven’t been following this too closely, I did listen to a few of the phone conversations that were released. It was exhausting listening to her, talking in circles, gaslighting, belittling him. There was one part where he brought up an incident when she punched him, and she actually started putting him down, saying that it was only “hitting”. Also according to her, I guess he was just supposed to take it like a man, and not remove himself from the situation, like he was trying to do? Funny in the phone conversations I listened to, she also wasn’t accusing him of physically abusing her, like she reported publicly, it was mostly the belittling of him for not taking her abuse.

    From his end, he mostly sounded like he was trying to stay rational- a little stoned maybe? Maybe on a benzo? But any time he tried to clarify incidents that happened, or tried to bring it back to respectful communication, she started in on the crazy- making talking in circles, drama, and the me-me-me stuff.

    On a side note, interesting how alike people can sound. My narc sounded very similar to her, with histrionic and borderline pd behaviors peppered in too. I’d be sitting home with my cats, reading and minding my own business, but if his inner turmoil was stirred up and he decided I was going to be in the hot seat, he had no mercy either. It was exhausting too. Listening to those phone conversations was a reminder to just keep staying away- don’t put yourself in harm’s way by getting all caught up in that whirlwind of crazy-making bs that gets you no where. :/

  9. Abw Flying says:

    Phillip Schofield and his runner .From hero to zero.

  10. Abw Flying says:

    Are their divorce court records public ?

    1. Desirée says:

      ABWF
      Heres the link to the court records

      https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/high-profile-cases

    2. Abw Flying says:

      Mr Tudor ,

      Are their divorce court records public ?

  11. Desirée says:

    Looking at the dress she’s wearing here, I was going to say that it’s a nip slip waiting to happen, then I realized it would be nothing the world hasn’t seen already. Are there any exhibitionists that are not narcissists?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes. Narcissistic individuals, but the majority are of our kind (Somatic).

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Ah, Desirée…. if only you could see my narc’s pics on social media showing his abs so in depth that you can actually see some pubic hair as well…

  12. when9793 says:

    I am thoroughly impressed with your astute observations and keenly applied skills of analysis! I cannot thank you enough for the insight and explanations you shared. While reading this article triggered some dreadfully unpleasant memories and physical sensations, it provided me an odd sense of reassurance and validation of my gut feelings. You clearly put into words much of what my mind and body have been desperately and silently screaming to avail for so long.
    Again, much appreciation!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  13. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Catching up on the Oscars, -we already knew about Phoenix’s victory-, has anyone watched Parasite? I watched it some time ago, even before being nominated, and I thought the script was genius. Plus, a lot of narcissistic characters!

    1. K says:

      Sweetest Perfection
      No, I have not seen it, however, I thought of the article: Parasite and suspected there may be narcissistic characters in the film. It’s on my To Do List.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        K, watch it! It’s a phenomenal film. Full of surprises.

        1. K says:

          Sweetest Perfection
          Will do! Fight Club was fantastic BTW; I have not seen the film yet.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, you mean you haven’t seen Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden yet??? Grrrrrlllllll!!!!! What are you waiting for?

          2. theletterafterj says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Hahahaha…I had to read the book first, now I can watch the film!!!

  14. Chihuahuamum says:

    Great write up HG! I have to admit to not even knowing who amber was. I dont think shes all that famous of an actress.
    Sigh….what happens when you get two highly disordered people together its so toxic and explosive! I feel physically ill just reading about the turmoil that ensued. I wouldnt be surprised if the dog did poop on their bed. Animals can sense and see turmoil. Given her personality im not surprised she did. She strikes me as a borderline and johnny a lesser narcissist. They both feed off of negative energy and the sick thing is they probably think its passion ughhh not!!
    I had a friend growing up a lot like amber and she grew up in a very unstable home. I severed my friendship with her after she stole from me.
    Shes a very sick puppy but so is johnny. They are both loose cannons!

  15. Bluewave says:

    HG, great article as always. I am 100% sure Amber is a narcissist and I have always viewed Depp as a victim in this relationship. But since the tape with their argument leaked I started to have some doubts about him even despite this tape proves she punched him.

    Are you sure he is not a narcissist too? Because during this conversation he is very persuasive, the way he tries to make her say that she was violent… She was defending herself saying he is stonewalling during arguments, that he gives her silent tratment. It made me dounbtfum. I don’t know if he was giving her cold shoulder because she was violent or he was manipulating her with silent treatment and this made her react with losing her temper. This is not clear for me.

    What are your thought about this? Thanks!

    1. NarcAngel says:

      “Both have come to additional prominence as a consequence of subsequent divorce and allegation and counter allegation of abusive behaviour towards the other. Accordingly, Ms Heard first goes under the Tudorscope. […]

      I think there’s a clue there…

      1. Renarde says:

        Yup. But by gum hes a terrific actor. His english accent is spot on and boy does he understand timing.

    2. Desirée says:

      Bluewave
      I think that Johnny is an empath and Amber claiming that his withdrawing from the situation would “only make it worse” was blameshifting on her behalf. Here’s why:

      1.) Toronto, Australia and another event on a plane are mentioned. Based on the court documents, these are three incidences where Amber was physically violent against Johnny without him defending himself and in one of these incidences (Australia) he lost his finger in one of her attacks and almost died from conducting MRSA.
      So there was a history of Johnny knowing that things would eventually escalade and a track record of him not fighting back (a narcissist likely would have done so in some way anyway in order to regain control). Withdrawing was therefore the only sensible move he was left with if he wanted to break up the fight.

      2.) Amber states that “nowadays” he leaves the argument almost immediately, which would further indicate that he tried to solve things peacefully at the beginning and knew it did not work.

      3.) The time on the plane, where he could not withdraw himself, she yelled at him, kicked him and punched him in the face, further showcasing that staying and trying to work things out with her does not work and that she lied when she said that him not sticking it out with her would “only make it worse”.

      4.) It’s not so much that he tries to make her say that she was violent, but rather that he wants to see she is aware of what happened and will acknowledge it, he is not trying to shame her or get her to lie.
      It starts out with Amber repeatedly claiming that “he did it too” when the reality was that she punched him in the face and he then pushed her away to defend himself (her narcissism might consider this a “violent act” even worse than hers, because it impairs her control over her victim).

      5.) His willingness to stay in the argument (that they taped and that was released) with her and to try and solve things even though she repeatedly insults him and twists the truth of what happened also indicate that he is not trying to gain control over her but genuinely wants to work things out. He takes a lot of verbal abuse from her during that argument and remains calm, trying to get to the root of what happened and figure out a way to move forward. If he was the type to dole out silent treatments in order to gain control over the other, that option was open to him many times in the duration of this argument and he never took it.

      6.) I also noticed that Amber keeps insinting she needs the safety to know that he will be there for her (meaning know that he will not leave her or rather escape her no matter what she does).
      Such a statement would amount to criticism and a threat to the control of a narcissist, which would trigger one of the twin lines of defence. This does not happen with Johnny, in fact he explains that he withdraws himself to protect her, because he never wants to let himself get in a situation where he would become angry or end up retaliating.

      7.) Something a bit more general: He had incredibly damming evidence against Amber in his possession for at least four years whilst being publicly slandered with his career taking hits as well, yet he never put this out there or defended himself for the longest time. While there are narcissist that are sophisticated enough to bide their time and wait for the moment to strike, a narcissist of that calibre would not have fallen for someone like Amber to being with.

      1. Violetta says:

        Desirée:

        In one recording, he said that he had loved her for years, but now he realized he didn’t even know her. To me, that sounds a lot like a Narc’s victim beginning to wake up, but we’ll see what HG says when he puts Johnny under the Tudorscope.

        1. Desirée says:

          Violetta
          Yes, I think he said something like

          “I have loved you for so many years but you know what? You didn’t exist. You’re not there.”

          that was painful to hear because it is so true when dealing with a narcissist. They do not exist, they’re just not there.

          Since HG has never put someone under the Tudorscope who was not a narcissist, I assume that is the case with Johnny as well. It surprised me to read that as I do not see any evidence pointing that direction in the case against him, especially because the credible evidence that Amber has brought forward was a total amount of zero and he appeared quite reasonable throughout it all. Maybe there were events in his past that would point to him being a narcissist. I wouldn’t know but when it comes to the abuse allegations I certainly think he is innocent and did not deserve to be slandered by the media in the way that he was.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Desiree
            Perhaps the Tudorscope has concentrated on only narcissists to date, but that could change.

        2. Desirée says:

          Here’s the quote of what Johnny said in that phone call:

          “You…I loved you for so many fucking years but you know what?
          You didn’t exist. You don’t exist. You’re not there. You’re not there.
          You are a fucking made up thing in my head.
          And I… can’t believe you are doing this to me”

          1. Violetta says:

            I think HG discussed Diana at some point, maybe not in a full article, but he said she was NOT a Narc, although Charles’ provocation eventually caused her to lash out.

          2. Mercy says:

            Desiree, Almost all of us has experienced that moment. To see his words in raw form is painful.

            The one thing that will never leave is that deep-seated pain that you loved a ghost.  – The Devastation of the Illusion

      2. Bluewave says:

        Thank you Desiree for your analysis. I still have doubts. If Johnny Depp is an empath, he must have been reading a lot of HG Tudor during his marriage with Amber. I am really impressed by his LT during this recorded by him conversation with her.

        I will reveal what makes me think he might be a narcissist too:

        1. He indeed was courting her with very very grand gestures. Expensive gifts, impressive infatuation. It reminds me a narcissist in love bombing stage,

        2. Something I have never considered suspicious before – he is like a chameleon. He changes his looks dramatically. I always thought it was because he was promoting his films… but who knows? He likes attention for sure.

        3. Great facade so far – Vanessa Paradis was also perfect, their life was perfect, he fell in love in instant in the hotel lobby blah blah blah. But hey, they got divorced, right?

        4. When he was Vanessa’s husband he was totally french. French clothing, french holidays, french way of living. Mirroring? Stealing her character traits, draining her prime aims/residual benefits?

        5. During relationship with Amber:
        – she was violent for sure, she is a narcissist I believe. But he doesn’t act like a typical empathic victim who licks narcissist’s ass. He was forgetting her birthday, giving her silent treatment, withdrawing, triangulating/smearing (witness of Amber’s abuse). He was so in love, but still he introduced a lawyer and wanted her to sign a marriage contract. Of course it doesn’t mean only narcissists do that but he wasn’t stupid for sure.
        – in this leaked tape he sounds like a controller. Cold, focused, persuasive..manipulative? It’s really impressive how he was managing this conversation. He wasn’t responding to her, he sounds detached, focused on his goal. There is a lot of crazy making.

        For me he sounds like a mid range narcissist at least. Someone who is not physically violent, has some control over his temper and who uses more psychological manipulation. He is much more intelligent than her.

        Or maybe he is an empath and just went supernova moda haha. I don’t know. But HG knows for sure 🙂

      3. Darth Renardus says:

        Desiree

        I concurr.

  16. NarcAngel says:

    An interesting read, and as always – I appreciate the way the behaviours are broken down. I didn’t even know who she was until I read about their parting. I always thought Depp was likely a narcissist though (as are many in Hollywood), so I was unsurprised as I’m sure there are many who collide. The lengths some will go to though is another matter. I suppose it depends which schools and cadres are clashing as to the level of shenanigans. She doesn’t seem to possess much control and shitting in a bed seems like a pure Lesser move, but who knows. Well…HG does.

    1. Desirée says:

      NA
      The part about shitting the bed is as Lesser as it gets, but looking at Ambers concerns regarding her reputation aka her facade management (also supporting charities etc.) and her considerable charm, I think she is a Lower Mid-Range Somatic and that her erratic behaviour is exacerbated by her drug abuse.
      I doubt Johnny is a narcissist, he didn’t retaliate even though he had evidence that could have destroyed her entire career. He barely defended himself during the relationship and wanted to resolve things peacefully while Amber was throwing the punches. I think the only thing colliding was Ambers fist with Johnnys jawline.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Desiree
        Ah. I don’t really know much about him either. Was just basing it on a combination of his level of celebrity, seeming moodiness in some interviews I saw, reports of drink and drug problems, allegations of damaging hotel rooms and assault, and the cycling through of women who he appeared to become quickly over-infatuated with. At least those are the media reports that found me, but then the headlines aren’t usually for the good and a lot of those behaviours can be demonstrated by victims as well. That is why NPD is so baffling to the mainstream.

        I just thought on cursory glance that he might be a narc with more control than she, but perhaps I’ve scored an F.

        1. Desirée says:

          NA
          I don’t think you scored an F, my thoughts about Johnny are largely based on the court documents regarding the case, I did not follow him before that scandal. He never seemed to try and “regain control” over her as a narcissist would, but usually offered her a way out of the situation and tried to solve issues with her, not even any passive-agressiveness. It seemed to me that if he was a narcissist with sufficient self-control to pull this off for years, he would have been sophisticated enough to not fall for Amber to begin with.
          It’s difficult to determine with Hollywood Stars because most suffer narcissistic abuse of some sort and could be driven to erratic behaviour because of it.
          With all the shit Amber pulled on Johnny (she almost killed him at one point and sabotaged his efforts to get clean) he seems to have incredible self-restraint either way. I would have murdered by now.

          1. Witch says:

            @desiree
            Negative fuel for a narc is still good fuel. There are benefits for a narc being with another narc or a narcissistic person, which is that they can easily provoke that sweet negative fuel which is much more difficult to get out of an empath.
            My mum (a narc) was only with narcs/narcissistic men. Even though my dad never hit her he used to rough her up physically. He would pin her to a wall/door and punch the wall/door. They both played on each other’s narc traits, though my mum is worse. My dad is chill 90%-95% of the time if he stays sober, whilst my mum seeks to provoke arguments regularly and then my dad would debilitately say things to whined her up. My dad was stingy with his money (even when it comes to his children) and mum expects to be taken care of through the children, so you can imagine the drama. I believe my dads’ parents are narcs/narcissistic and he chose women like his parents.
            HG made the right decision to opt out of parenthood. I believe more and more narcs and narcissistic people will have children with each other and produce more narcs/narcissistic people.

          2. Desirée says:

            Witch

            A narc like Amber would provide significant fuel output for another narc. If Johnny was a narcissist himself however, Amber would have also issued significant threats to his control by way of criticisms (you don’t care for me, you take me for granted), infidelity (with James Franco, which Johnny knew of) and threatened loss (her saying “if you don’t want to fight for me, that will be the end of our marriage).
            This would have required a narcissist to reassert control over their victim (despite the fuel output of some of those actions).

            Possibilities would have included:

            -Deflection/Lying “let’s not fight now, I am tired”/”what are you talking about? I was not late at all!”

            -Pity Play “I give you this wonderful life, you travel the world with me, and now you treat me like this?”

            -Threatened Loss “If you keep treating me like this, I cannot provide you with all this anymore since you don’t appreciate me”

            -Outright Threats -Johnny knew that Amber was a stripper and she would hate to have that leaked to the press, he also knew that Amber has a drug addiction, the she was cheating on him with James Franco and that there was another abuse allegation made against her in the past that never made the news

            -Blameshifting “If you wouldn’t be yelling and punching me, I would not have to do this to you” (he does point out that he did it so he would not end up retaliating, but that is far less poignant, which is also evident in the fact that Amber does not respond to his response in an aggressive manner)

            He had plenty of opportunities to go mid-ranger on her and if he had done so, you bet Amber would have complained about it in her testimonies. From all evidence I have seen, he didn’t. He always offered her a way out and tried to solve things peacefully.

            The only potential manipulation was splitting from the fight by going into another room or leaving the house. This is also the same action an empath would undertake if they wanted to avoid a physical argument and trying to calm the aggressor had proven useless.
            He did not withdraw during their fight on the plane, and Amber still made no mention of him resorting to any manipulative actions, only complained about him pushing her away in self-defense.
            She is a narcissist, therefore highly sensitive toward perceived threats of control. She would have picked up on any manipulation tactics immediately and dig them up and complain about them during the next argument.

          3. Witch says:

            Good points Desiree

        2. WhoCares says:

          Witch,

          I think there a multitude of benefits with regard to the scenario you are describing – and not just proximate fuel:

          “There are benefits for a narc being with another narc or a narcissistic person, which is that they can easily provoke that sweet negative fuel which is much more difficult to get out of an empath.”

          Just think of all the possibilities for a victim narc to work this to their advantage (unconsciously) in seeking sympathy fuel from tertiary sources.

          1. Witch says:

            Yes Whocares
            That is my mother lol!
            It was difficult not to see her as the victim because she was never with an empath. So in some ways she was legitimately victimised by these men but she will never admit to how she contributed to volatility of these relationships.

        3. Bibi says:

          It is hard to assess Depp as I only see from the exterior. I read a Rolling Stone article with him and all he did was complain. I think he is a very talented actor, very attractive individual with a lot of problems.

          A number of yrs ago I watched this doc on the making of the Nightmares on Elm Street, where all the cast was there but Depp. (Remember he gets digested in the bed in the 1st film.) Granted, he could have been filming elsewhere but I guess when you become such a huge star, appearing in a doc about a film that ultimately spawned a franchise and helped to launch you seems like small potatoes.

          Granted, I have no idea the situation but you’d think he’d at least give a phonecall/Skype interview for even 5 mins?

          As a contrast, Robert Englund (Freddy) is so down to earth.

          1. Cat says:

            Indeed, I got a weird feeling from JD’s Wikipedia. Is it true he claimed native American heritage?
            In my experience from high school and narcs, lying about Jewish and Native American genes was the top thing.

            And that weird overthetop comedy speech about killing the president. A bit odd. Gave me Ricky Gervais vibes.

            But JD did not deserve to get abused.

          2. Cat says:

            Hm. Thinking again maybe some old narcs in the family lied to Depp about Native heritage. Empaths can certainly spread lies, I know I have, unwittingly.

            Don’t know what he is. Victim of abuse, for sure.

          3. Witch says:

            @Cat
            I believe when JD played a Native American in the Lone Ranger, this was criticised as some people felt that an actual Native American actor should have been given that opportunity. And then I believe JD said his great great great great great great ancestor from way back was Native so he could play the role.

          4. Cat says:

            Witch, yeah, I guess.
            And Amber was probably the one who pulled him from Vanessa Paradis. Big regrets now for Johnny maybe.
            I know I have regretted similar things.

          5. Witch says:

            Apparently he was already separated from Vanessa when he met Amber… but who really knows. He was with Vanessa for 14years and had two kids, I don’t know why someone would let that go. He said it was hard because he was away a lot for work but honestly, how much money do you need???? Really??? He’s Johnny depp, he’s already a millionaire he could have sacrificed some jobs and fought for his woman. Keanu Reeves is giving away his money because one man does not need that much money. So I don’t know what JD was thinking

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Just because you don’t need to work doesn’t mean you shouldn’t.

          7. Witch says:

            But in this situation if he’s going to be away from family for 2 years or whatever and his wife is finding that difficult to deal with, mate… strike out a few jobs, gawd!

          8. Violetta says:

            Was it ever confirmed or discredited that he had an ancestor in one of the tribes? If his ancestor was Cherokee, there might be some truth in it; they were pretty friendly to people who were willing to learn their customs.

            Unless you showed unusual value as a warrior, Apaches and Comanches would just kill your white or Spanish ass.

          9. Witch says:

            @violetta
            There is probably truth to it, but I don’t think it’s relevant in this case. I understand the criticism. JD is already at the top and has been given plenty of opportunities to play white men. He claims his native ancestry when it is convenient for him and benefits him financially. We all have to eat and it would have been a great opportunity for a Native American actor. Let someone else more disadvantaged than him get their million. I was disappointed by his response to the criticism.

      2. Lorelei says:

        I’m often confused by the expansive fuel matrix and how it fits that people like MM could have the fuel matrix of the upper mid ranger, but the pitiful tears of the MMR. Help!

        1. Desirée says:

          Lorelei
          With narcs in the public eye, it is easy to have huge fuel matrixes because there is little maintenance involved. The media, fans and people who work for you to whatever extend are part of your job and it can be somewhat arbitrary who “makes it” as an actor and then other high-profile people will want to mingle and be associated with you. That does not necessarily imply that they have a lot of empaths ensnared or are overly successful with long-term pursuits (MM rarely makes it beyond a couple years) I’d say MM is a MMRN.

          1. Lorelei says:

            That makes sense Desiree!

        2. Violetta says:

          Lorelei:
          I’m still confused about challenge fuel vs. wounding. Could the same action be interpreted as one or the other, depending on the flavor of narc you’re dealing with?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Read the 3 Interactions With the Narcissist and you won’t be confused

  17. Witch says:

    HG why do you think Heard’s ex girlfriend is defending her?

    “In 2009, Amber was wrongfully accused for an incident that was misinterpreted and over-sensationalized by two individuals in a power position. I recount hints of misogynistic attitudes toward us which later appeared to be homophobic when they found out we were domestic partners and not just ‘friends,’” Van Ree said in a message released Wednesday.

    “Charges were quickly dropped and she was released moments later,” the statement continued. “It’s disheartening that Amber’s integrity and story are being questioned yet again. Amber is a brilliant, honest and beautiful woman and I have the utmost respect for her. We shared 5 wonderful years together and remain close to this day.”

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If Van Ree is an empath – emotional thinking.
      If she is a narcissist, facade management, triangulation and provocation – for control.

      1. Witch says:

        Thanks, I was shocked by her response.
        It would have been more homophobic for the police NOT to have protected her.

  18. Mercy says:

    HG, Thank you for doing this one. It was a great read! I’m sending this to my oldest daughter. We both love JD and she was heart broken when he’s was accused. She will be very happy to read this.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  19. Bibi says:

    HG, thank you for this rundown. This bitch is psycho. I thought somatic narc immediately.

    “The housekeeper that had to clean up the poop that morning later stated in her testimony that the poop was “too big to be from their dog”.

    That is sick shit. I will admit tho, upon 1st read I had a sinking feeling vis-a-vis me and the Mid Ranger and how I sent him a slew of fuck you you worthless cocksucker go rot in hell emails after I uncovered all his lies. He accused me of being abusive and obsessed w him, which still hurts and so when I saw this I thought, ‘OMG, am I like this?’

    She is horrible. I will say however that Johnny is really shallow. He dates blondes who are too young for him and he has his own narc problems, but he is not at this level. When she was born he was still on 21 Jump Street. C’mon John. You can do better.

    She is disgusting though. After hearing all her shit I don’t feel I am like her but I had that worried moment. Ugh. It is clear she married him for social mobility. I mean really.Johnny Depp is a great actor and she has been in Aquaman.

    1. Violetta says:

      Bibi:
      I had my doubts about her claims. Even Winona Ryder, who dated him during his wild young party animal days, said she didn’t see him as a violent type. When none of your exes have that complaint about you, and there’s no evidence that their silence was bought, it raises questions. Same deal with Heather Mills: everyone knew John had a history of getting violent with women, but Paul?

      1. Bibi says:

        I agree Violetta. I just don’t understand these celebs who have so many opportunities and they squander them and they don’t appreciate them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They do not believe they are squandering them, from their perspective Bibi.

          1. Bibi says:

            Good point, HG. Very true.

        2. Desirée says:

          I used to think that people like Meghan Markle and Amber Heard are shooting themselves by risking everything because of minor “infractions” or scratches to their ego. Having learned about the narcissists need to maintain control in the here and now, it makes perfect sense. I still think it’s to their own detriment, but then again they can’t help themselves.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Vanessa Paradis, who was Depp’s long-time partner and mother of his daughter, also exonerated him publicly from being anything remotely close to a violent person.

  20. Paintbrushnhand says:

    A very interesting read. I haven’t kept up with this and appreciate the break down to show examples of narcissistic behaviors. I can’t pass judgement but I can appreciate the information and examples. Very well written. I do enjoy reading.

  21. MB says:

    I’m not familiar with Heard and haven’t followed this story, but that is no matter. It is so well founded and well written, the message is crystal clear. I feel really bad for JD. She pulled him into her web and has tortured him since. Again, testimony to the fact that devaluation ALWAYS happens. If Johnny Depp and Prince Harry aren’t good enough, nobody stands a chance of avoiding it.

    1. kel says:

      I’ve read that a narcissist see’s the world as something they have created. It has imperfections that they don’t want to see, so their narcissism blocks them from seeing it. When they fall in love with someone, they need for them to fit into their world like a perfect puzzle piece that exactly fits in to that space. The narcissist feels like this person should always want and like the same things that they want, because how can that perfect puzzle piece not want the same things as he wants. When they don’t, it’s confusing to the narcissist, and that’s when the devaluation starts.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        1. The narcissism blocks any threat to control, “imperfections” fall within that, but the blocking or blinding is much wider.
        2. Narcissists do not fall in love. See “Is It Love?”.
        3. You need to fit into our fuel matrix and be under our control. This does not necessarily (to begin with) mean you have to like what we like, more often it is the other way around, which is why we mirror.
        4. Devaluation is nothing to do with confusion.

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          Interesting HG how they block everything.

          When an N repeatedly over years attempts to seduce you and continues to fail.

          You show irritance/disgust by way of non-verbal cues towards them for even trying, is that challenge fuel or wounding?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Challenge Fuel.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            ugh so f***** gross! I was hoping you weren’t going to say that. Thank you though.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Well you know what I say about hope.

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            What you say about hope seems to come true more often than not.

            Makes me feel disgusted (not hope, him seeing it as a challenge), emotionally raped is not quite right but along those lines. Like ewww how could he even think it at all. I’ve worked out though, I thought he had zero success with the ladies apart from his IPPS. It seems not! fucking disgusting. I think it is an incredibly low success rate given the amount of effort he invests, but a success rate he has.

          5. Desirée says:

            AS16

            Re: Reducing challenge fuel

            It helps to busy oneself with something else in a neutral manner and keep moving. If they want to be ignored in person, that’s on them.
            Here are a couple things I have done to doge the approach whenever I was ambushed in the past

            -breaking eye contact by looking at my phone
            -aiming to already be looking at my phone when I can spot them in my periphery
            -acting like I am taking a phone call
            -actually calling a friend to have a chat
            -inspecting my nails whilst walking past them
            -pulling a piece of paper out of my bag or pocket,
            crumbling it, then making my way to a nearby bin
            (once you’re near a bin, you’re usually near the next
            exit as well)
            -if they still approach me, announcing I have somewhere else to be

          6. alexissmith2016 says:

            Thanks Desiree, that’s really helpful.

            He’s a prize fucking prick. Not sure anyone has ever got this under my skin before! I hate it that it was challenge fuel!

            Love the phone tips and being distracted by your nails.

        2. kel says:

          Except unaware narcissists think they are falling in love. That narcissist said he felt anger and depression, but that all other feelings were confusing to him.
          Anyway that’s what he described as one who was not malignant. Perhaps he’s calling a feeling of losing control or having it challenged as confusing. Maybe he should come here to learn more about himself as I’m sure he’s trying to figure it out. Thanks for the clarification.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, they think they are in love (the narcissism causes this in order to “fit in” and better ensnare the victim).

    2. Violetta says:

      Including, alas, Se Scyldmægd.

      1. MB says:

        Yes, Violetta, even The Shieldmaiden. Lord have mercy on her. She will need all the strength she can muster.

  22. Lorelei says:

    Wow HG—just wow. What a bitch. I can’t ever have an actual boyfriend again (like a real one that is a regular fixture without a full interview by you!) I just don’t think I could sort through something like you can. Depp appears to many as an awful abusive ass because of her.

    1. MB says:

      Lorelei, Two words. Date Defender!

      1. Lorelei says:

        Full interview and body cavity search.

        1. MB says:

          Lorelei, I don’t know why you couldn’t book a consultation and have HG have a nice chat with your love interest. Much better than Daddy conversing with him on the front porch cleaning his shotgun!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, brilliant!

          2. MB says:

            You’d do it wouldn’t you, HG? If she could get him on the line, you’d give him a good going over. I can hear it now. So, what are your intentions with Lorelei? You’re gonna have to get through me first!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I need not be so blatant. The skill is in ensuring they know i have them in my eye and of what I’m capable.

          4. MB says:

            Good thing you didn’t have any children, HG. No telling what sort of weapon you’d be cleaning on the porch!

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Brushing my teeth is polishing my weapon.

          6. MB says:

            Your fangs?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Fresh mouth, fresh kill.

          8. Lorelei says:

            MB—can I just make them all take the empath detector. Tell them I found it in Redbook magazine as a woman’s “get to know” test and submit for analysis?

          9. MB says:

            Sounds plausible Lorelei. Lord knows I’ve taken some doozies in Cosmo!

          10. Lorelei says:

            HG—I can’t imagine a conversation involving a potential suitor in a group conversation. I imagine it would be a preparation logic bulletin on how to deal with me more than narcissism. I am not easy to deal with. First, don’t call me often, don’t ask me how much it cost, don’t ask who, what, where, when or how. Buy fresh flowers twice weekly. New jewelry once monthly. Sex twice a week at least. Dinner often. Clean my car, shovel my drive, salt my walkway, trash goes out weekly, mow the grass, all home repairs, occasional massage, fetch the mail.. Shall I go on? This is the standard that even all narcissists have abided by—even in devaluation. (Minus the flowers & jewelry frequency) I’ve added those items.

          11. Lorelei says:

            I don’t have a love interest MB. That is your empathic nature speaking up. A love interest would mean I’m willing to fall in love with an interest! I can be interested and not want to love them!

          12. MB says:

            Lorelei, haha! I never know what to call it these days. Boyfriend, girlfriend, partner, friend with benefits, prospect. I just went with love interest because I thought it was innocuous. I guess not! You still may need help from HG to avoid getting ensnared when you do get back out there.

          13. Lorelei says:

            Haha—maybe I’ll ensnare them! I don’t want a boyfriend so this is a challenge. And I don’t want a disease. And I can fall for someone quite easily as much of a disaster as I am. Is this putting me back on the no human contact watch list?!

          14. FoolMe1Time says:

            Who said she wasn’t already back out there MB?

          15. Lorelei says:

            I’m in here right now.

          16. njfilly says:

            That smile and charm are deadly.

      2. WokeAF says:

        How many dates do we gotta go on for a date defender to be thorough HG? I’m thinking I’ll have to hire a Private Eye from now on

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It depends which DD service you require. If the first, it is pre-emptive so the answer is none. If it is the second service, one will suffice.

          1. Lorelei says:

            My car also gets cleaned off in case of snow, and heated up. Devaluation or golden period. Make a note for all suitors please. Even the former idiot did that.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Lorelei – haha, thanks for my morning laugh.

            “My car also gets cleaned off in case of snow, and heated up. Devaluation or golden period.”

            Build a garage and get an auto starter. Waaay cheaper I bet.

          3. Lorelei says:

            I have a garage but i don’t park in it. ( used to)
            I’m not kidding. Even my ex knew his chores.

          4. WhoCares says:

            Lorelei,

            Mine did some useful chores as well. I never had to carry a single heavy thing (although I am not a weakling.) And when I would protest and offer to help carry, say grocery bags, etc., he would rebuff my offer and say he was “balanced”.* (I am sure he would spin this to his advantage with others: ‘She always makes me the packmule…’

            *Side note: This was probably significant in that it left me feeling ‘unbalanced’ (not in the literal sense) so I see how, in this small example, that my feeling of unease in not being allowed to help played into my ‘doormat’ qualities but at the same time made him look good on the surface.

          5. Lorelei says:

            No snow shoveling here.. !!

          6. WhoCares says:

            Lorelei – I’d take snow shoveling any day over the emotional hurdles created by my narc.

          7. Lorelei says:

            I agree. I am doing thank you notes for my mother’s flowers. I feel about as all over the place as a kid with no nap. Ugh.

          8. WhoCares says:

            Take care and be kind to yourself Lorelei. The emotions surrounding grief tend to overwhelm once all the formalities are done.

          9. Lorelei says:

            Thanks Whocares. It’s hitting my oldest brother too—we used to call at various intervals and you reach to pick the phone up and simply cannot. She was the one person, who if needed, I could say things to and they would not be repeated. No one else has that trust or ever will. Someone may think they have damning information but that is incorrect because I’m fairly transparent as imperfect and ok with it. But some things just can never be spoken again. I uploaded photos for printing this morning to Shutterfly. Little things.

          10. WhoCares says:

            Lorelei,
            💜

          11. WhoCares says:

            I meant way cheaper than the costs of entanglement – not HG’s Date Defender or other services – those are invaluable.

          12. Darth Renardus says:

            Hg

            Why am I laughing at ‘second service?’

            It has to be my dirty mind!

  23. Ashley says:

    Amazing analysis! I had no idea she was like that. I’m glad to now know.
    The deficating in the bed thing for me, as a germaphobe, omg I cannot even imagine, that is so disgusting!!! I feel so bad for her housekeeper for having to deal with that incident.

    1. Violetta says:

      Don’t read this if you’re squeamish:

      Some reports have her doing a Cleveland Steamer, rather than waiting for Depp to be absent.

      In addition to the disproportionate size of the supposed dog poop, anyone who has walked dogs, mucked stables, or driven past a pig farm knows that they all have distinctive smells. You not only wouldn’t mistake one species for another, but you can often identify changes in the feed. Human mothers who go from nursing to formula will recognize this, and the difference is even more marked when they switch to cow’s milk and solids.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        That’s what I subtly alluded to in my previous comment, Violetta. I have a huge dog and believe me, even if the size is not a Yorkshire’s you can tell a human poo apart from an animal one. And, enough with the scatological analysis, but she was so low and repulsive that now when I look at her pictures I won’t be able to take the image of her dropping a “bomb” in her bed. Haha!

        1. Lorelei says:

          Sweetest—speaking of dog poop, my ex told Child Protective Authorities that the kids were required to clean up after the dogs and didn’t like it. He’s perceived by a dumbass by everyone. Just one mention of his nipple piercing after he moved out and even
          lower lessers roll their eyes.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Nipple piercing. HAHAHA!

          2. Lorelei says:

            Sweetest—I can’t make it up. He’s turned into a lesser.

          3. Lorelei says:

            Like falling off the bell curve lesser!!

      2. Ashley says:

        Violetta, I had to google what a Cleveland steamer was lol oh my . I never want to look at Amber again

        1. Darth Renardus says:

          Ashley

          Oh Sweet Baby Jesus. And I had to Google that!

          The CS. Oh Dirty Bird!!!

  24. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Speaking of celebrities, in an interview done this past week, Joaquin Phoenix was asked how he would categorize Joker and he answered that, despite the fact he could be many things, to him he was mostly a narcissist. He also said in the same interview that almost all conflicting and even criminal people have in common a childhood trauma (as Joker did). Maybe when he wins the Oscar award tonight more people will be curious about narcissism? I hope so, though these awards tend to become just a superfluous and temporary topic of discussion.

    1. Cat says:

      Speaking of Joaquin, I find it interesting that three prominent empaths (if I’m correctly understanding after
      all HG reads)
      Joaquin Phoenix, Rene Zellweger and Brad Pitt, got the main Oscars this year.
      Has the US grown a bit tired of screamish narcissists?

  25. Lisa says:

    Interesting you should write about this HG, I’ve recently been watching the YouTube videos of the tapes of these 2 and was going to ask you about it. I could tell she was a narcissist but wasn’t sure about Depp, it seems like he isn’t one but I also thought it could be 2 N’s colliding

  26. theletterafterj says:

    I don’t think Depp is a narcissist but, based on her behavior, AH is a narcissist. One of my lessers, a female, defecated in someone’s car. Festive!

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Uuuuughhhh!!!!! What’s with the defecating habit? Does narcissism go hand in hand with IBS?

      1. Violetta says:

        I think, like the Dubai Porto-potty routine expected of yachters by oil-money oligarchs, it’s a primitive demonstration of absolute contempt.

        There was an employee at a zoo who apparently hated one of the tigers. His abuse including squatting on the top of the enclosure and defecating. Eventually, something broke or he lost balance, and fell in.

        Have to say, I’m entirely on the tiger’s side, and hope it wasn’t put down.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Oh K, me too! Poetic justice!

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Sorry! I meant Violetta. For a second I confused who wrote the tiger comment. If HG weren’t an Ultra I would worry a little about our dinner plans next week.

          2. Violetta says:

            Sweet P:

            I couldn’t possibly be offended by being confused with The Narchivist. I only wish I had her Search Capabilities.

        2. CINDERELLA says:

          Hi Violetta, I am wondering, what is “the Dubai Porto-potty theme”? Please tell. I am curious and wonder if it is here on HG’s blog. Also, great analysis of AH, HG. I look forward to reading more about her and Johnny Depp.

          1. Violetta says:

            Cinderella: I am not squeamish (I’ve mucked stables and changed babies), but I am reluctant to explain Cleveland Steamers and Dubai Porto-potties in detail, not because of the grossness, but because of the sheer hatred and malice required to do this to other human beings. (It’s definitely not a matter of extreme kink between willing participants with no financial incentive.) With the Dubai routine, there’s not even a supposed grudge as there was with Heard’s pillow-pooping: it’s basically seeing how much desperate yachters will put up with to get their money.

            I leave you to decide whether you want to Google either term.

      2. MB says:

        Maybe their control is so total, narcissists have the ability to poop at will?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Well some are anally retentive

          1. MB says:

            Control is control. Either let it out or hold it in!

          2. Lorelei says:

            I just googled it, she tried to blame it on the dog! Even my ex isn’t dumb enough to dream up this pile of shit.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I see what you did there.

          4. Lorelei says:

            Yes, good observation. And no, I’ve never dated anyone who would dream of such a thing. How do you even categorize this? It’s below a lesser to poop in a bed!

          5. Violetta says:

            She was full of shit from the beginning.

        2. Lorelei says:

          She pooped on a bed? What? Or did he? And why? I can’t even imagine. I don’t poop at all so it would never be an option anyway.

          1. MB says:

            Lorelei, I am inquisitive, but I’m leaving this one alone!

          2. FoolMe1Time says:

            Yes please don’t go there MB!

          3. Lorelei says:

            Foolme—I’m a genius. You can buy 10% off Wayfair codes on eBay and voila. Spent $2.44 on the code and saved a bundle!! In my desperation and frantic need to find a code I found a way!

          4. FoolMe1Time says:

            I’ve told you time and time again Lorelei, A professional shopper is the job for you! 💞

          5. Lorelei says:

            Yes I agree. And Lorelei is also now dual certified. I nailed my proctored exam as the words “Pass” flashed on the screen after I completed 150 questions! Bam.

          6. FoolMe1Time says:

            Congratulations Lorelei !!! I never doubted you for a second!! 😘🥂🍾

          7. Lorelei says:

            Thanks—I knew a few questions in that it wasn’t as miserable as the review questions. I think it’s been unfortunately hanging over my head more than I’d have preferred due to recent events. Anyway—it’s over with. Now do I still want triple certification? Yes, but I need a breather. A big one. Triple certification is the real (for me) pinnacle of separating mediocrity from tenacity; and now that I am awake and not asleep it’s appealing. I can’t believe I slept for a few years. It’s really unbelievable.

          8. Mercy says:

            Lorelei, Congratulations!!

          9. Lorelei says:

            Thank you Mercy!

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Aloe Vera is good for that, Lorelei. On the other hand, don’t they have a Yorkshire? I think it’s very easy to detect whose dung it was based on many things, size included in this case.

          11. Sweetest Perfection says:

            **his cover of Personal Jesus was not too bad either, considering the challenge.

          12. Violetta says:

            I’m getting confused. Manson covered “Personal Jesus”? Johnny Depp did? HG did?

          13. Desirée says:

            Lorelei
            Her friends are crap, too. One of them just tweeted “Poopgate”, the day the incident made the news. It’s in somewhat bad taste to make fun of the accusations of someone you intend to testify against in court, but what else to expect.

          14. Violetta says:

            Lorelei:

            Woo-HOO!

      3. K says:

        Sweetest Perfection and Violetta
        Hahaha….this thread is making us lose our shit.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Maybe Lorelei can find it!

          1. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Hahahaha….don’t hold your breath!

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Violetta, I understand your confusion because my comment was an orphan without a thread, such is the capricious nature of WP. MM did a cover version of Personal Jesus, as he did of other songs such as Sweet Dreams, Tainted Love, etc. I actually like some of his covers better than the original even, but of course that’s not the case when we talk about DM.

          1. Violetta says:

            I haven’t heard his “Tainted Love” cover yet, but his dirge-like approach to “Sweet Dreams” was better than Lennox’s, I think.

            I just listed to his cover of “Personal Jesus,” expecting it to suck. It didn’t. No, it’s not up to the original, but he understands the song well enough to do it justice. Very smart using percussion instead of syncopated breaths on the break.

      4. J says:

        I’ve read somewhere (Vaknin maybe?) that there seems to be some link between NPD and aggressive associations with feces. The article I read mentioned using feces as a “weapon” and dreaming of feces.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It all depends on whether the individual is a narcissist. The use of faeces in the manner described is an act of control, since any act directed towards another person, will always be an act of control, whether benign or malign.

          1. Violetta says:

            “Sorry, Bridget. I was just ringing to say don’t eat it! Yakky! Poo! Anyway official congratulations!”

  27. Sweetest Perfection says:

    “ Evidence of sexual fluidity does not, in itself mean an individual is a narcissist.” Of course not. And in this case, it could even be said it isn’t really sexual fluidity since the sex is not the important matter, but fluidity got fuel. I’m glad you did this analysis. This case was a conflicting one because of course once you use the LGBTQ and women’s march /#Metoo platform, you don’t want to side with the potential abuser. But it was clear to me from the beginning she is a liar and an opportunist. She also said she just wanted JD’s money to donate it to the victims of domestic violence and once she got it she didn’t donate it. I think she ended up doing so just because of the media’s pressure and to maintain the credibility of her accusations. Like Brad Pitt, Johnny D. has gone down the rabbit hole since meeting her, drinking uncontrollably and embarrassing himself in public appearances. I hate that in both cases the abusive partner happened to be the woman, and in this particular case I hate this person took advantage of an otherwise incredible achievement worldly recognized to denounce gender violence. She repulses me.

    1. Witch says:

      Same, I hate her.
      I initially felt bad for her and was on her side, until she started denying that Johnny Depp abused her and I was like eeeehhhmmmmm !!!!!???
      I do wonder if JD is also a narcissist though.

      Evan Rachel Wood came out as a victim of domestic abuse but she hasn’t named the abuser, although we all know it was Marilyn Manson, we don’t even need to put him through the narc detector, we know!

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Manson is full of insecurities and addictions though his band has one amazing bass player. I met a cousin of Evan Rachel Wood at work, she told me she showed up for thanksgiving dinner with MM. Apparently he was very timid and acted courteous. But she also told me he used to text her non stop and when she didn’t answer he got really dramatic cutting himself, leaving threatening suicide messages etc.

        1. Witch says:

          He does this fake “I’m a shy nerdy boy” bullshit. He’s a freak.
          I’m not surprised, have you seen the music video he made of her?

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            The one with the heart-shaped glasses? (sorry Dolores, just a coincidence). Yep. I like MM’s music to be honest. It’s excellent for cardio and ab work. Rock Is Dead is fabulous. But I don’t like that song.

          2. Witch says:

            Yeah that one and he drives them over a cliff in the video 🙄
            I like some of his songs too, I just know he’s a psycho

          3. Dolores Haze says:

            SP: offence not taken 😎 In real life, I’m an Aviator / Wayfarer kinda gal.

          4. Violetta says:

            He is a freak. We n his bio, he wrote about what his band did to a deaf groupie who liked rock because of the vibrations.

            There seems to be a common thread in today’s discussion with narcs and bodily functions. Marking their territory?

          5. Witch says:

            I don’t even want to know what he did, I will curse his life

    2. lisk says:

      “Going down the rabbit whole” . . . also reminds me of Asia Argento and Anthony Bourdain.

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