The Empathic Supernova



What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are four schools of the empathic individual; the , the Standard Empath, the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Contagion Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The disengaged from Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are less extensive and the few that exist are generally weaker. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They lock together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Standard Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Standard Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Standard Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Standard Empath is also disengaged from. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Standard Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this disengagement until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the disengagement the Standard Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Standard Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Standard Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are generally less in scale compared to the Co-Dependent. The Standard Empath will have numerous narcissistic traits but not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as a Standard Empath (along with the fact that there are more Standard Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Standard Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Standard Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Standard Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with few and low narcissistic traits and the Standard Empath has a greater number of narcissistic traits  and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a significant number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.

69 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. Asp Emp says:

    Goodnight HG. Thank you for moderating for so long…. it has been a good time….. actually, I should be saying ‘Good morning’ and I’d be making coffee, ah, sorry, it should be tea….. laughing….. (no, no cups & saucers in this house) LOL

  2. Asp Emp says:

    OMG. It’s 4.30 am….. (just after – LOL – for those “perfectionists”)…..

  3. Dina says:

    It seems to me, reading through the comments on this post and other posts about the “Supernova” of the SE, that there is a lot of confussion among empaths. I see many commentators associating the SN with “rage” or some type of open fight or violent cry. I identify with the process described but at least for me it has been very different: no rage at all, at least visible rage (on the contrary, more kindness, but a funny/condescendent kindness, with a smirk).

    The first narc trait I notice when I click and go into supernova (or if this isn’t supernova and supernova is that fight/rage most participants state, meganova then) and the narc traits come to light is devaluation, and this is what enables the supernova. I see the person as a coward, I think “He is not like me, this person is weak and doesn’t even exist, he doesn’t even have a personality, he is not my equal, and I need a strong and kind person to be with”, so my emotional bond with him weakens.

    Secondly, I don’t want to fight, I want to escape, and I mean to escape in the cleanest way, to avoid fallout and reduce the damage of the smear campaign/hoovers. I don’t want to ignite the rage of an insane person (that would be very stupid, and I am not stupid), and I don’t need revenge, I just want to continue with my life as soon as possible and heal… but many times this isn’t immediately possible. So the narc mechanisms that I have seen myself deploy in this supernova or meganova phase while I plan to escape are precisely the contrary of an open fight, abuse or rage, I become more passive-agressive, but with more kindness (and condescending) than ever (playing with words, everything subtle), as I stated, and this means: withholding information, gaslighting back (totally agreeing with him that abusive things never happened), silent treatments, word salads etc my goal is not to wound him (though he will be wound, most probably, at some point), it is to confuse him, confussion is at least for me the key of the Supernova mode, but being so subtle that the other person can’t point out nor recriminate, at least directly (he will try to punish, but again, the bond is weakened, so even triangulation does not really work, as we are not so jealous, and though it may hurt a little, we can control it; we in fact hope you to go back to your ex or promote an IPSS once we have figured things out, that would make things easier for us. Nonetheless, we can “act” jealous or sad, to keep the game going while we plan, because it is now a game nor a fight what is happening).

    Finally, depending on how he is (I suppose this is more suited for a midrange?) plan to turn the tables seizing the opportunity to agree with him when he critisises something about the relationship (which he will) and manipulate the conversation to openly interpret his words as rejection and break-up (Very sad face: “you’re right, I’m never going to make you happy, you need someone more suitable for you, someone more sensitive-backhanded insult-, but I really like you, maybe in the future we can be together again” etc- the last part prevents immediate hooovers, as it makes them believe I’ll be back soon and provides more time) then escape, as I had time enough to plan during his “kind devaluation”. Moreover, depending on the type of narc and the time you’ve been together, you might have some information he prefers to keep a secret (in one case, for example, having been IPSS crowned IPPS he wouldn’t want his ex, family etc the façade, to know he cheated with me as he may want to hoover her after I had left). And I also withhold closure if possible (they usually do this first, so I just go with the flow), trying to leave things open so he thinks I am coming back for an explanation and when he realises I was happy to escape it is too late, everything is prepared and I am in no contact.

    Having said this, I would like to add that I have a lot of experience because, although I pride myself on not being stupid, a little bit I am, as I seem to attract them again and again, and most fly under my radar as they feel familiar at first due to my long ninja training as a giver and resisting abuse as my parents are both narcs. I usually escape when golden period ends and I detect a personal boundary is being pushed- I ignore until then many red flags but when a strong boundary is pushed the alarm starts ringing and I see the big picture. Good thing is that I have experienced a lot of fake golden periods, so I have lots of gifts and presents, I have been invited to travel for free (one was an airline pilot) and I’ve saved a lot of money on dinners and drinks, I reckon when true love finds me I will feel it is too cold and ignore it.

    1. A Victor says:

      Dina, what you describe as your supernova experience is very similar to what happened when I escaped the narc from last summer. I did not consider it a supernova because I ended it, in the least confrontational yet most passive aggressively confrontational way I could figure and at the same time lighthearted so as not to cause a problem with a “crazy” person. I thought a supernova happened when one wanted to stay in the relationship, which I did not want. But, what you said makes good sense and if you’re correct, I’ve probably had a supernova and didn’t even know anything much about narcissism yet. Interesting. I had been picturing it as an angry thing but it wasn’t anger, it was more determination.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Similar here but in my case it was combined with rage and lashing out. After reading through H.G.´s material and gaining a lot of knowledge, I realized that I indeed started my romantic “career” as a shelf IPSS. At age 17, already shelf IPSS, lovely! (x) not. It was a totally chaotic on-off-relationship, he shelved me and hoovered me back about 5 times. Wrote me love letters (there was no internet back then), called me on the phone, was charming, romantic, we went out, then silent treatment, put-downs, blame shifting and triangulation.

        When I found out how terrible he was between the sheets (luckly, he was not my first man), so mechanic, so robotic, that was pretty much it. The same night he also wanted to coerce me into a threesome and that was 1.000times it! I told him how horrible he is in bed, grabbed my stuff, ran for the hills and never looked back.

        That´s more than 25 years ago and he still carries the “title” of THE VERY WORST OF THE WORST in bed! 😀 😉

        1. A Victor says:

          That’s funny, my ex was THE WORST too!! You described it well! And, I haven’t missed him in that regard AT ALL. I haven’t even dated since he left over 10 years ago but it was still no loss. It was hurtful while we were married to have rejection though, which he did better than the act. And, if it turns out he is a narcissist, I am almost 100% certain he will be a somatic. This has confused me because I thought they were so driven by sex and also so good at it. But…not him. I know there was sexual activity during the marriage that he was involved in that I was not though, so he was not feeling the absence/rejection like I was.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I had two somatics, one my “teenage love” more than 20 years ago and the second one more than 10 years ago. The first narc was THE WORST OF THE WORST and the second one was one of the BEST. Both somatic. 😀 Not all somatic and elite narcs are good in bed. Some learn it and are really good and others are just robotic, mechanical, cold as ice. During devaluation they can either just do what you don´t like in bed and totally degrade you or they can withhold. Whatever it is: They are SERIAL CHEATERS!

            They reject you and withhold any intimacy to obtain negative fuel from you. They know how it hurts you. So if it´s for them the better choice to withhold in order to achieve the prime aims then they will do so. It´s ALL about fuel/control, character traits and residual benefits. No matter what they do, but yes, somatics and elites can reject and withhold too if they see a lot of “nice” negative fuel in it and they can control you that way.

  4. Asp Emp says:

    The following is my personal experience – how I felt and what happened.

    “What is the Empathic Supernova?” – the result of a narcissist’s narcissist having reached a big FK U rage – an empath’s narcissistic traits finally reaching plutonic point where there is a point of no return. Nothing, absolutely nothing can stop the magma from escaping and erupting – not even the Victim MRN himself could actually do anything to stop the supanova. In fact, my one responded by hiding – he would have needed several nappies had he actually been present during my supanova. He was coming back with the usual pity-play BS – which made me even more angry, during my rage. Ah, he pushed me even more. FFS.

    Thank you so very much HG for this full and detailed explanation. Because of this, I have been able to determine what I am on the empathic / narcissistic spectrum and where I can go from time to time (I’m sniggering as I’m typing this). Like many of your articles, I find them really insightful & useful as future reference. This one, however, has made me see what I am. Yeah, feel really much better now….. your’e a star for writing this one HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

    2. BC30 says:

      Asp Emp have you had the ED and/or TD?

      1. Asp Emp says:

        I’ve had neither, as yet…….

        1. BC30 says:

          You must! It truly opened my eyes, and now I know where I need to fortify my defenses.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Oh, I plan to…..

  5. Eternity says:

    I am curious to see what category I fit in HG. I need to do a Empath Detector. Hopefully it can help me in the future

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do not delay, book today!

      1. Eternity says:

        I like the way that rhymes.

  6. Ben says:

    This is such an eye opener… This supernova is exactly how I behaved with him towards the end, so much that he blocked me. I used to keep wondering if I’m narcissistic and if I’m actually the narcissist. But this puts so much in perspective now.

  7. December Infinity says:

    I am not sure what type of empath I am. I think I will have to read more about empaths to determine this. Interesting article.

      1. December Infinity says:

        Thank you. I will look at this.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Jolly good.

  8. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Full blown Super Carrier here, ready to kick ass! My fuel stinks, dear Narcs. 😛 😉

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Since you are providing fuel, it will not stink. Name change required.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        No way, haha! 😛 😀

    2. BC30 says:

      Your school is Super?

      Mine is Standard with strong minority Super.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Yes, my school is Super. Cadre Carrier with significant Geyser and Savior minority traits 🙂

        1. BC30 says:

          I’m a total hybrid and the only school I am missing is Co-D.

          My favorite empath of all time is a Carrier.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            THANK YOU! 😉 😀

            I´m missing co-D, missing Contagion, I´m just Super with some little Standard. I´m missing a lot of stuff, I´m just Super Carrier 😀 but high in narcissistic traits 😉

          2. BC30 says:

            High in N traits. Is that why your fuel stinks? LOL How high? If you don’t mind sharing. I find it fascinating to interact with everyone with their detector results in mind.

            I’m certainly a match for my assessment results.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            EXACTLY that is why my fuel stinks 😉

            Well, 50 % of my personality is narcy 😉 But kept in check by my super-empathic traits of course 🙂

          4. BC30 says:

            I’m a wee bit more narcy, but even-keeled except for my outbursts of rage 😡 and tendencies for hidden revenge. 😏

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Aw yes! Nothing against a good rage outburst or as mentioned in my other post, some nice passive-aggressive ice-cold “fury” 😉

          6. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I can manipulate too, I can blame shift, I can gaslight, triangulate, bring up the past, sit and sulk in silence, roll out Pity Plays, I can mirror, I can intimidate, I can lash out like crazy, I also used Threatened Loss…. but this is not done for fuel and control but for SELF-DEFENSE AND SELF-DEFENSE ONLY!!!!

            Normally I´m very loving and caring. I care about the sick, the weak, the old, the very young, I like animals and love nature. 😀

          7. BC30 says:

            I rarely did those things. I work best behind the scenes or in a blaze of glory.

            I was an IPSS but behind the scenes, I”cheated” on the Ns when they angered and hurt me. They thought I was faithful, but I knew better. It’s a warped kind of revenge.

            I’m not proud of it, but I am capable of hitting someone, usually it’s because I won’t be ignored. Alternatively, if the person has done something I consider beyond the pale. If you tell me you slept with my sister I’m liable to punch you in the face. It’s a sudden burst of rage. It frightened the MMR.

            The reason I unknowingly went No Contact and escaped is because I end my relationships in a blaze of glory. This ensures that I WIN. They come home to find my clothes gone without notice. I cut them off all my social media and block them. They don’t need to know where I am or where I’ve gone.

          8. Leigh says:

            I have to chime in here BC30. I always felt like we were very similar by the comments you make. I’m standard empath with a strong minority super & triple hybrid carrier, geyser, savior cadre. As for my narcissistic traits, pride & infidelity are big ones. Ain’t that the truth! I’m just curious, what are your cadres?

          9. BC30 says:

            I totally see that. Defiance and pride are the biggest, infidelity not far behind.

            Geyser – strong minority
            Magnet – significant minority
            Savior – significant minority
            Carrier – insignificant minority
            Martyr – insignificant minority

          10. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Same here: defiance and pride and then vanity!

            I seem to be the most “boring” Empath here 😀 😀 – no hybrid-mix-max, just very clearly Super Carrier 😀 😀 😀 Boring lol 😀

          11. BC30 says:

            I’m starting to worry I’m the weirdo and feeling a bit like confetti. 😃

          12. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Naaah! That´s perfectly fine and very interesting! 🙂

          13. BC30 says:

            Thanks HG ☺️

          14. Alexissmith2016 says:

            It’s interesting listening to everyone’s results. I’m SE magnet. Ive only done the empath detector, not trait detector but I don’t imagine I have any CD at all. A bit of contagion. I have some carrier, but only for short bursts, there’s no longevity in it. I wish there was. Minimal geyser if any, I very rarely cry. Definitely have some saviour.

            And yup very strong narcy traits but I will really help others a lot, Ns need not apply. I cannot believe I used to help them pre knowledge?!

          15. BC30 says:

            I totally see your SE, and as far as helping goes— you didn’t know then, too bad for them that you do now.

          16. Leigh says:

            BC30 says, “I was an IPSS but behind the scenes, I”cheated” on the Ns when they angered and hurt me. They thought I was faithful, but I knew better. It’s a warped kind of revenge.”

            This is why I say we are so much alike. Every time my husband tells me how perfect he is as a husband, I think really, is that why I’ve cheated. I guess its my own kind of thought fuel. Knowimg that I’m getting over on him, yet he thinks he’s perfect.

            I’m a perfect hybrid of carrier, geyser & savior. My top empathetic trait is caring.

          17. BC30 says:

            Caring is a tie with Truthseeker for top place. Two peas in a pod!

          18. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Mine are truthseeker, justice and caring.

          19. Leigh says:

            AS2016, its definitely worth doing the Trait Detector. It tells you exactly which of your traits are strongest.

          20. A Victor says:

            My narcissist traits come out due to frustration, anger, sadness etc, not because of a need for fuel. Sometimes those emotions arise from feeling a lack of control and a sort of panic sets in, but it is short lived, the sense of control comes back and we move on. Little things don’t worry this sense of control. This, I take it, is what makes us different from the narcissist. Also, I prefer not to live that way all the time, as little as possible in fact, another difference. But I don’t think for them it’s a choice? Would they want to stop if it was? Okay, not getting back into the question of their ability/desire to change themselves, or see the need to change their behaviors. Just thinking out loud again, trying to sort stuff out.

          21. Asp Emp says:

            Sometimes, an empath can become the narcissist’s narcissist – hence the narcissist traits coming to the fore. I am a perfect example and living proof of that happening….. the Empath’s Supanova? Ah, bless….. the best orgasm I ever had….. (to date)

          22. leelasfuelstinks says:

            For me it doesn´t feel like an orgasm, first I fell burning pain, then burning rage, then I completely shut down, the person I am shuts down! Then I feel defiance, pride and power!! Then comes the LASH OUT! And I feel powerful and proud! I am proud that I have landed a BIG BLOCK BACK! I feel great about myself!

          23. A Victor says:

            Leigh, we are very similar also with only some minor differences in percentages and my highest narcissistic traits are pride and vanity instead of infidelity.

          24. A Victor says:

            BC30 what is it you like about the Carrier? Just curious. I don’t think I have a favorite in either the schools or the cadres. I don’t know a lot about them yet.

          25. BC30 says:

            I don’t have a favorite cadre or school. It just so happens that Keanu Reeves is my favorite empath and he is a Carrier. Textbook Carrier.

            However, I do have a wee bit of disdain for Co-D. Not sure why.

          26. A Victor says:

            Oh no Asp Emp, you are once again way over my head…hahaha!!

          27. A Victor says:

            My top empathic trait is truthseeker, compassion is second but didn’t rate high enough to merit conversation, the rest were all something below that one.

  9. thathealingheart says:

    We would fight epic battles, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, you would not.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Okay, then I fight 😉 😛 😛 😛 😀

    2. leelasfuelstinks says:

      I can fight a Mid Ranger easily! Have never met a Greater.

      And H.G.? Urm. Guess I RUN! 😀

  10. Empath007 says:

    This one is always interesting. I’d still put myself in the co dependant category. But I don’t put up with narcissists for very long (never have) and I’ve alwahs escaped, not been disengaged from. And only had 2 romantic encounters with them so far in my life. So I’ve gotten lucky I guess. I was
    Only with my narc for a year but dear god… it affected me like nothing else ever has.

    When you say “striking blow after blow”
    What would that mean ?

    For example. One night I’m cooking and the narc is watching over my shoulder criticizing. He made a comment on how I would ruin his pots or something by how i rinsed them. So I responded by saying “ perhaps, I do it all the time with mine… however mine are much higher quality”. I wasn’t saying that to be rude per say… it was just a fact. But is that a “blow” or is it different then that ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is a Challenge Fuel.

    2. Eternity says:

      Empath 007, they sometimes dont have anything nice to say. I would have told him you can do the dishes yourself. Use cold water and cool yourself off.

  11. blackcoffee30 says:

    I’m only secondary Super, wish I’d been a bit more.

    1. A Victor says:

      Same. It’s enough. 🙂

      1. BC30 says:

        A Victor, Is that your only school?

        I have representation of all schools and cadres, except co-dependent. I’m feisty, but it’s usually explosive because I’m majority geyser.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi BC30, I was writing something to you up above but it got lost. I am Standard with a very strong Super minority. And strong Savior, significant Carrier and insignificant Geyser. That is it.

          The Standard and Super in said quantities are very fitting, I can clearly see those.

          I can always tell when my Geyser comes out, it is second/third nature for sure, haha. I am sometimes embarrassed by this after, depending on who sees it, as it isn’t common for it to show and I’m an introvert. Typically only my close family sees it. The summer narc always got annoyed when he saw it. That annoyed me, haha!

          I have been finding these categories fit better than I would’ve originally thought, though still not so sure on that Savior one. It is likely the reason I struggle so much with “hope”.

          The Carrier was a surprise, though looking back on my marriage I can see it.

          Not having any Magnet was a surprise because people are always trying to befriend me but not a surprise in that I don’t usually want to befriend most people, lol. Lacking it also dropped my desirability to several schools of narcissists so, in that regard it’s a good thing. I need to find another empath or a normal someday, there are really not any good fits with narcs, hahaha! Either I’m too fiesty for them to handle or I don’t have what they’re looking for! This makes me giggle, I’m a useless empath!

          Now I am watching for information about the traits, how they are corrupted, what that looks like etc so I can guard against that happening more effectively.

          Also, I have moderate empathic traits and low to moderate narcissistic traits and have questions about that as well. Can a person have high empath and slightly lower narcissist traits and still be any school/cadre combo? Or does my moderate/low moderate correlate at all with the schools/cadres I’m in? Also, are some of the traits more common in some of the schools/cadres or is it really anyone’s guess to any individual? I have been so happy to see more coming out about these things recently, though not having been here long it may be returning to things I missed. But either way, I think having as good or better an understanding of myself as I do of how the narcissist works will be a big part of future safety. It is all quite fascinating.

          1. BC30 says:

            A Victor,

            Oh my. I am a Geyser and can’t go a day without crying, but wish I could. 50%ish narcy. I am an extrovert’s extrovert. I can tell from your comments you’re more introverted.

            I have questions like you and hope/wish that HG will write a book with more details about the ED/TDs. I’m a little bit of every cadre and wonder how common that is. I would guess some traits are more common in some of the schools/cadres or they manifest differently. I didn’t think I was a magnet, but I am persuasive. I am definitely learning how to guard myself better, and now I know I’m considered a trophy to the UL and UMR.

        2. A Victor says:

          BC30, I very seldom cry typically, and never ever in front of anyone. If my kids see it, which has been rare, they do get very worried.

          I always think of the Geyser as the animated life of the party type. So when I get animated even in a conversation, it is unusual and can surprise both myself and the listener if they don’t know me well.

          I did have “dramatic” outbursts when I was married, usually tied to hormones more than anything else. Those were never pleasant for anyone, my poor husband! The guilt from that and the handholding were two big factors in me working so hard to keep that marriage together. Never again. I now can see so much more objectively the imbalance in the give and take. And I wonder if the balance had been better if the hormones would have been such a big issue. Moot point now.

          Thanks for sharing your empath breakdown, very interesting.

          1. BC30 says:

            I wear my heart on my sleeve. When I’m happy I’m brimming with it, talking with my hands, laughing or squealing, and can’t stop smiling. I’m so glad to get to know you a bit more!

          2. A Victor says:


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