Putting a Sex On You

PUTTING A SEX ON YOU

I was in session with Dr E.

“So,” I asked, “what is today’s topic for discussion?”

“Sex,” he replied.

“Do I have to talk about this with you?”

He pushed his spectacles back.

“You do not have to talk about anything, but I would hope you would discuss this with me.”

“Can’t I talk to Dr O about sex?”

“Why? Are you uncomfortable discussing sex with another man?” he asked. I could see he had his pen poised ready to make a note.

“Not at all. Sorry, doctor but there is no homophobia about me.”

“What makes you say that?”

“Well you were about to suggest that my reluctance to discuss matters of sex with you denotes a homophobic trait on my part.”

“Not at all, that would be prejudging you and an unsafe basis for analysis.”

“I don’t believe you,” I replied.

“Why would you rather discuss sex with Dr O?” he asked. He showed no sign of irritation or disappointment at my preference.

“I would be interested to learn her views about sex. She is so pristine and clinical when I see her, I want to know what goes on under the bonnet.”

“These sessions are about you not us,” said Dr E.

“Don’t worry Dr E I have no interest in whether you apply nettles to your scrotum or whatever it is you do to excite yourself.”

“Is that something you have done?” he asked.

“No but I have used them on someone else.”

“Male or female?”

“Female.”

“Why?”

“The stinging sensation across the nipples or the inner thighs of course hurts but then that gives way to a delicious flood of pleasure when combined with the application of my tongue.”

Dr E was scribbling.

“I see, so you enjoy the fact it hurts the other person and then becomes pleasurable for her?”

“No.”

“Please do expand.”

“Will I get to talk about sex with Dr O?” I asked, shifting topic.

“On some aspects of sex, yes,” replied Dr E. I smiled.

“Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

“I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

“So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

“Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

“Is that your conclusion or of others?”

“Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same.  I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

There was a long pause as Dr E jotted down my words. He looked a little flustered to me. I wished it was Dr O sat there instead.

“Do you think a sexual encounter should be about something other than control?”

I laughed at this comment,

“Heavens no, that is its only function. It is an instrument, like so many other things, to bring you under my spell, but I must admit, it is probably one of the most potent and effective instruments. Sex is actually rather boring but controlling the reaction and emotions of another person, well, now that is far more interesting.”

“Have you ever wondered what it would be like to give up that control and allow yourself to be enveloped in the ‘moment’ with the other person?” asked Dr E.

“No I cannot give up control. You see, I know there are those that engage in being tied up and punished, you know smacked with an open hand or a cane. They may get a sexual reaction from being treated like this but the real reason they do it is that they are giving up control. I had a girlfriend who was very submissive and allowed me to do…well I will let you use your imagination there doctor, but she wanted zero control. She was high up in a bank and responsible for millions of pounds and hundreds of employees and she wanted to be divested of that responsibility and give up her control if only for an hour or two. I found her explanation interesting but I could not understand it. Why give up control? Why surrender something you have worked hard to achieve? Control is the ultimate aim of taking someone to bed. I control them in that bed and the spell I put on them means that control extends far beyond the bedroom, such is its power.”

Dr E nodded and continued writing.

“What if you lost your sexual potency? What if you became impotent?” he asked.

“Why would that happen?”

“Plenty of reasons. Alcohol abuse, substance abuse, diabetes, age, anxiety. There are many reasons why this could happen.”

I shook my head.

“People like me don’t suffer that. God gave me the gift of sexual brilliance to further my purposes, He would not take it away from me.”

“But if it did happen, what would you do? How would you manage with such a loss of this marvellous instrument of control?”

“Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.

“Not at all. Just posing a relevant question aligned to your desire for control.”

“Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?”

Dr E remained silent. I copied him an just sat in silence glaring at him. How dare he suggest I would lose my potency? What an idiot. He ought to know better than that by now. I kept staring at him waiting for his next clever remark but he just stared back. This stand-off went on for a few minutes but I knew he would look away first. I maintained my baleful gaze as the fury at his impertinence coursed through me and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.

“Not so cocky now are we doctor?” I muttered under my breath.

Learn more about the narcissist’s view of sex in the ground-breaking book available here

78 thoughts on “Putting a Sex On You

  1. Violetta says:

    “Not so cocky”
    Eye sea watt ewe deed they’re….

  2. G says:

    This is why a good dom is hard to find. Short term can be ok if they are a narc because both parties get what they need in that moment, but for a long term relationship choice, one has to be very careful

    1. Asp Emp says:

      G, ice cubes, Witch Hazel and safe words……

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Asp Emp,

        Regarding safe words. You can’t have watermelon. That one’s taken.

        “Watermelon!!!! Watermelon!!! I said Watermelon!!!!”

        Xx

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Good luck with saying that when you’re wearing the gaffer tape, TS! 😉

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hahaha,

            Only just saw this Asp Emp. That made me laugh. I’m having real problems with Word Press and notifications. Now it won’t let me like anything either. I do forget to like comments in fairness but now I can’t like anything. Damn thing.

            Xx

        2. A Victor says:

          Haha, that word is way too long.

      2. k mac says:

        🤭

      3. A Victor says:

        Haha, this is the infamous “melting ice cubes”?? 🤣🤣🤣

  3. john smith says:

    Im no NARC but I couldnt help but LOL IRL when I got to the end of this LMAO Even after being in a abusive relationship with my wife for 10 years now it still so hard to fathom that there are people in the world who act and think in this manner… I have always been told from a young age that i have a big heart and my God Mother warned me that if I wasent careful people would notice and take advantage of me.. i can not tell you how many times my “Big Heart” as got me burned in my life… Although I am much more cautious when meeting and hearing people out the BIG HEART in me is hard to suppress and the vampire of a wife i got knows this…

  4. k mac says:

    Great, now I have to change my panties.

    1. WiserNow says:

      k mac,

      haha – that’s funny. Yeah, a male ‘super computer’ who knows exactly what to do – as long as he’s programmed for the seduction phase only. What a super-duper ‘appliance’ that would be… 😉

      I think I’m compartmentalising… 🙃

      1. k mac says:

        The sex isn’t fair! I had only been with one man other then him as I married young. That had a lot to do with it too I’m sure. I found I don’t really like intimacy in the bedroom. I didn’t know that before.

        1. WiserNow says:

          k mac,

          Narcissists deliberately don’t make anything fair, unfortunately.

      2. k mac says:

        I’m also 3 years out so my wounds aren’t as raw. Thank you for the kind welcome ❤

        1. WiserNow says:

          You’re welcome k mac 🙂

  5. WiserNow says:

    Control – in general – is an interesting concept. If you break down what ‘control’ actually means, it’s one word that can mean a lot and it’s not easy to define.

    In this conversation between HG and Dr E, HG is explaining his prowess in the bedroom. He is proud of all his knowledge, his experience, and his ability to know how to control his sex partners, whoever they may be. He is a ‘super computer’ when it comes to knowing what will ‘work’ with any particular person. It’s all about ‘control’ and nothing to do with intimacy or vulnerability. While HG is explaining this, he sounds proud as punch.

    Then, when Dr E asks what would happen if the sexual impotency was lost, HG clams up. He has no alternative ‘game plan’ in the event of that happening. There is no plan B.

    It’s interesting that HG says, “People like me don’t suffer that. God gave me the gift of sexual brilliance to further my purposes, He would not take it away from me.”

    It shows:
    – narcissists believe in God when it suits them
    – they perceive themselves as special or different or superior to others (i.e. people like me)
    – they perceive their ‘brilliance’ or omnipotence as something granted to them from an ‘external’ source rather than innate ability (i.e. no self-reflection)
    – they don’t entertain or plan for the possibility of their own infallibility or ‘weakness’
    – they do not have vision or imagination to perceive that there are other alternatives if they happen to lose the control they have worked to achieve

    It’s quite interesting. It seems to show that the pursuit of ultimate power or ‘control’ doesn’t allow for thoughts about alternative choices or scenarios. It’s all or nothing. It is quite a rigid way of thinking.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Commendable observations.

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you HG, your reply is appreciated.

    2. WiserNow says:

      …correction – I should have said, “Then, when Dr E asks what would happen if the sexual *potency* was lost…”

  6. Duchessbea says:

    I agree with a lot of what is commented here. But what I love is that HG, a Greater is being accessed by what sounds like a couple of mid rangers.

  7. LauraSun says:

    I absolutely love reading about these sessions with the good doctors! This one especially. So interesting. I’d devour a book containing more of these dynamics!

    In my experience, a lot if people in the (mental-) health field are midrange narcissists themselves. Actually, whenever you talk about UMRs I think about a few head physicians I’ve met with their haughty God complex… I hope you’ll let us know some day if one of your doctors is one and – if so – how you decided to handle them.

    1. A Victor says:

      These sessions are some of my favorites also.

    2. Asp Emp says:

      LS, I think that is a great idea, HG could compile all his ‘sessions’ with the good doctors into one book, bound in soft black leather with platinum coloured imprinted title with the author’s name on the cover……ehem, moving on…..

      I did wonder about Dr E, I reckon he has envy because of how enigmatic HG comes across in this session.

      As time went by, I think HG got to know (using his excellent people observing skills and understanding the human psyche), how to ‘handle’ the doctors.

  8. A Victor says:

    Ugh. Learned a lot about myself on this topic, through my experience with a narc. It will be huge bright red flags in the future for anyone going this direction prematurely. Never expected myself to be so vulnerable here but it was a good lesson.

  9. December Infinity says:

    Control is the ultimate desire with everything, including sex. I found this to be a good read.

  10. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Am I the only one who finds this creepy? For me as Super Empath, this is just super alien and super creepy. 🙁 Sex and the Narcissist is a Friday night reading for me, creepier than “The Saw” 😉

    Maybe I´m just too Vanilla 😉

    1. A Victor says:

      It’s creepy.

      1. Dave says:

        I don’t understand. Why is it creepy?

        Speaking of saw. I just binge watched Squid Game. Anyone else check it out?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It´s poor.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            and…… the budget was around 21 million dollars…… pouring it down the drain…….squid tastes better fried…….

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            I thought you’d like this one, HG, since you enjoy Battle Royale.

            Still haven’t seen it and will need to seek it out if it’s available.

            Did you watch the whole series? I’m curious to know why you think it’s poor.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            No, I have not watched. the whole series. My time is at a premium and therefore it did not merit any more than three episodes of my time, hence I stopped watching.
            I found it rather simplistic and some aspects of it grated, for instance, the scene involving the two women in the toilets was just irritating and why is nobody noticing that hundreds of people are going missing and not doing anything about it? I also anticipate that the characters will have rather plateauing character arcs (e.g. what happens to the undercover police officer, I will not write any more to avoid spoiling it for those who are watching/will watch). . Furthermore, I can work out where it will go to and I suspect the outcome will be weak. Finally, it is clearly a triumph of social media hype than substance such as excellent writing and plot, which infuriates me.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            I would have to agree it is simplistic in it’s theme, which is a tried and true one, and there are definitely some annoying scenes and characters. The two women in the toilets is one, and if you don’t like that expect things to get worse before they get better! Although I know you are not going to watch anymore of the series, it’s still interesting to get your take on it. Yes, why is nobody noticing the hundreds of people going missing? One police officer is onto it simply because he recognizes the card the main character has received as an invitation to the games which his brother had also received before he disappeared. There was a confusing element of the story there in the end which I’m assuming will lead to a second series. Perhaps if your character is to have a plateauing arc it is better to kill them off, and there was plenty of that in this show … how convenient 🙂 There was really only one place it could go, but I won’t say more for fear of the ‘spoiler effect’ also. What I will say is part of the intrigue for me, and the catch as far as the storyline goes, was the fact of using childhood games – usually associated with happy memories – to traumatize the participants as they sought to win. It did remind me of the game playing of the narcissist and the element of malice inherent in some. There is no doubt it is a triumph of social media hype and it always intrigues me how people can be so easily influenced by the same, as you say it’s got nothing to do with excellent writing or plot. It’s a fad, it will die away like most fads do. It won’t have the longevity of Shakespeare, but at this point is less likely to be cancelled. I don’t regret watching it. It’s generated some interesting conversations, including the issue of ‘foreshadowing’ which I hadn’t considered and my daughter’s boyfriend raised with me. The best part is they had it worked out almost from the beginning, in terms of the twist at the end. They were leaps and bounds ahead of me who got more involved with the characters, and I’m usually pretty good at that sort of thing!

          5. A Victor says:

            Agreed. I watched the first two episodes because my kids think it’s great. It was a stretch to complete the second one.

          6. Empath007 says:

            @HG “which infruites me”…. welcome to
            The world of an empath who bought into the narcissist hype about themselves only to find out they are mediocre quality 😂

          7. Dave says:

            I agree it was good. And all the twists were predictable.
            I watched it to the end to see what everyone is talking about.
            You put it well HG, it is a triumph of social media rather than good writing.
            As usual in television there are plenty examples of nacisistic and psychopathic behavior which are very interesting to call out.
            The main character’s behavior in the beginning for example, mooching off of his mom and stealing from her. The problem is that with TV writing the characters seem to sometimes have a heart or a noble rea son for their actions when the reality is they probably don’t care about others. Unless you chalk it up to self deception? But I don’t think the writers really think that deeply about the characters.

            Normally I don’t have time for TV but lately there isn’t anything else to do so… last night I watched The Graduate.
            Now there are some interesting characters to examine.

        2. A Victor says:

          It’s creepy to me because of the coldness behind it. There is no love or genuine intimacy involved, it is merely taking by one from one, not give and take, as it should be. It’s because it’s the most intimate act humans have and narcissists use it as a tool to meet their own needs, it is that coldness that makes it creepy for me, that sense of being used like the object they believe us to be.

          1. k mac says:

            You my love are normal. Lucky you ❤

          2. A Victor says:

            k mac, thank you for the kind words.. I would say I’m closer than I was last year at this time. Last year I would have had no clue about what I wrote above, only that things had been terribly wrong in my marriage, in this area. And I have yet to experience actual intimacy. It may turn out that sex remains more of a sport for me, which wouldn’t be the end of the world. But having learned that more is possible and what it could look like gives me some direction if it is to ever happen.

          3. Dave says:

            You know I was researching this and something I heard was that there is no true intimacy because you don’t really know the person you are sleeping with.

            Also read somewhere that sex for the narc is often a grand performance.

            I think some people would argue all that is great! Part of me is thinking, “who cares about the connection? Let’s see the performance!” Lol

            You know like if you know you are being used but you are using them wouldn’t that be win win?

          4. A Victor says:

            Lol!! Yes, in that instance, it would be! Hahaha!! Thank you! There are those times when a fun romp is all we want. But, with the narcissist, there is NEVER a genuine connection. This is not acceptable for most people, or maybe it’s most women? I don’t know. I had the occasional one-night stand as a young woman, those were fun but not actual intimacy, almost like a sporting event, as you say, a performance. 😂

            I disagree with the research you found about no true intimacy, that was discouraging to read. I know that there is something better than what I had, so I cannot allow myself to become discouraged, I will keep trying to heal so if the opportunity ever comes along, I am ready.

            Fwiw, I would consider the “grand performance” though I would rather participate than observe! But it would have to be with one actually phenomenal in this area, not a loser narc, such as my ex. 🤣🤣

          5. A Victor says:

            Oh yes, also, because in the case of a narc with an IPPS, the IPPS doesn’t know they’re being used, so not a win for them most of the time.

          6. Jasmin says:

            Hi Dave,

            Re: “You know like if you know you are being used but you are using them wouldn’t that be win win?”

            If you are a normal and don’t suffer from the downside of having an addiction, then most likely yes! An empath on the other side is just feeding their addiction.. The narc win, you loose!

        3. Bubbles says:

          Dear Dave,
          Yes, narcissistic psychopathic billionaires amusing entertainment from desperates
          The main character just doesn’t get the ‘real’ meaning from it all
          So many parents are allowing their underage children to watch it …..tch tch !
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        4. lickemtomorrow says:

          Yes, I watched it after some coaxing by my eldest daughter. Don’t know about you, but I watched the dubbed (in English) version as I find subtitles distracting. The kids watch a lot of Japanese anime and recommended I watch it in Korean. Maybe next time.

          Anyway, I checked it out, was hanging by a thread at the end of the first episode, but found each further episode added to the intrigue which kept me coming back for more. I’m not into blood and gore, but I persevered for the sake of the story, and it throws up some interesting moral dilemmas. I’d call it a ‘social commentary’, and the element of mystery was enjoyable, too.

          For me, there’s more to it than meets the eye, but it’s not for the faint hearted.

          1. Dave says:

            There’s definitely some symbology in there if you know what you are looking for.

            I don’t find it that gory or bloody though. And there’s something about the fact that the participants are willing and not forced to be there.

            It’s not like saw or hostel where they were abducted.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Dave, I have watched some of the Saw and Hostel films…….

        5. A Victor says:

          Hi Dave, I had another thought on the “creepy” that I wanted to share. Because of my upbringing, I didn’t know until I arrived here what the problem was, just that there were problems in this area, there had been with my parents also who sadly choose not to protect me from knowing their issues as a child, which only made things worse for me as an adult. Arriving here was the first time I learned about all of that, just how unhealthy it was, it’s impact on me, how things could look between two non-narcissists. That last part gives me hope. But the first two parts, because of the sickness of them, I have come to see as “creepy”, even though I did not see it this way only a relatively short time ago. Thank you for asking, thinking these things through really helps me process but I don’t always know what to ask.

    2. WiserNow says:

      Leela,

      When I think of this post, I can see it in two ways:

      1. If it’s a case of a longer term relationship where honesty and monogamy are important, then yes, it’s creepy. It has a mechanical coldness about it. “It’s like, “Here I am, I need fuel. I know just what you need. Take a number, stand in the queue and wait your turn. Next!” 🙁

      2. If it’s a case of a ‘worthwhile’ episode between the sheets and there are no strings attached, then it’s not so creepy. If it’s with someone who knows what he is doing and it’s the ‘seduction phase’ only, then … wow 😋

      It works in my imagination. But, unfortunately, sex in reality isn’t the same when planned with caveats. It’s like cobbling together a pre-nuptial financial agreement before a wedding – it kills the mood.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Sex with someone who has actually sex with himself? #donotwant! Some Somatics even place mirror in their bedrooms so they can watch themselves while they´re ….. 😣

        You know what? That reminds me on my ULA Somatic Ex. Some things were fine between the sheets despite some little “dysfunctions” 😉 but then came the sentence I will never forget and which destroyed everything: “I make you sexually dependent on me”. Urm: No, Sir, you don´t and you didn´t! Didn´t know about NPD back then but I was lying there on the bed and my alarm bells rang loudly! 🚩!!

        1. WiserNow says:

          Leela,

          After a few days of thinking about my initial thoughts after reading this post, I understand what you mean. The alarm bells are clanging now like fire sirens. Even the possibility of a great time in bed during the seduction phase without strings attached is based on magical thinking.

          Yes, in ‘real-life’, it’s highly unlikely that this ‘perfect’ illusion of sexual prowess will ever happen, even in a one-night stand – and if it’s combined with ‘intimacy’ too, well … we are now in the land of Hollywood “Pretty Woman” LaLa Land. When it comes to a narcissist, It. Will. Not. Happen.

          After thinking about the way HG explained all of his knowledge to Dr E about how to press just the right buttons and make his partners swoon and then become dependent on him yada yada – I thought, yeah right, that sounds *so* grandiose and over the top.

          Narcissists are well-known for being grandiose and for talking themselves up. They are known for being liars and for duping. Why did I believe he actually does know how to do all of that when I read the post?

          It’s because I’m projecting my own honesty on to HG. I think that because I wouldn’t talk up a big grandiose lie about myself being Wonder Woman in bed, then no-one else would either and I am able to trust them. You *cannot* trust a narc.

    3. Joa says:

      It seems completely natural and understandable to me.

      When he came back, we talked a lot about sex with “my” narcissist, and it had nothing to do with seduction. I don’t know what happened in his life, but he researched the other side and looked for approval. He got everything he wanted. I was very honest and gentle on this subject, both in terms of positives and negatives – which he is aware of.

      Later, we had fun, but at a distance and very shortly. I had to stop at the climax. I don’t know by what strength of will I managed to do it. I sensed what was coming and ran away. He was surprised.

      Once upon a time I wouldn’t sense it, I’d be naïve and angelically happy. Now I believe that it was at this seemingly close moment that he saw and held a new prey.

      The weeks that followed were high and low and then it became less pleasant. But, when it comes to observation, it’s interesting.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        You had to stop the climax? Why? That hurts! When I was on a psychiatric drug (I have bipolar disorder Type 2), I couldn´t climax! This was a side effect of the drug and it took forever until it worked. THAT HURTS A LOT! 😲

        1. Joa says:

          I didn’t mean an orgasm.

          It was the climax of the remote seduction: 500 messages a day, phone calls, all-night calls, all dripping with desire, interest, care.
          We both pretended to believe it for a while (2 weeks). Such a little bewitch of the past. It was wonderful 🙂 But I had to stop. Too much crazy. I had to come back to reality, although he drawn me in beautifully 🙂

          I guess, he allowed himself to play with me because he already had someone else up his sleeve. Kind of like a little farewell gift. That’s why I finished first, ahead of time.

          As for me, he’s back too early. As for the daughter, too late.

          Now it doesn’t matter anymore. We have financial matters and this is what I will focus on – depending on his movements or lack of movement.

          I allow the possibility of further interactions, only in one case. I’ll be shocked if he does. If not, at least I have peace of mind 🙂 Both have advantages and disadvantages.

      2. A Victor says:

        Why in the world would you have to stop yourself?? That would be torture!!

  11. Chihuahuamum says:

    I really think Dr E is amazing! He knows exactly what hes doing. I think the reality check of having your control taken away and having little or no control over that is infuriating bc its petrifying! Anger can stem from fear. Something like disease can shake a persons world and make them realise whose boss and it isnt them. Were specks in this big universe but narcissists think they run it.
    Disease a big wild card in life. Disease can be very humbling or in a narcissists case can shatter and destroy them. Control is their everything.
    Im so glad Dr E had tgis session and not Dr Orgasm. .

  12. Eternity says:

    HG,! I enjoyed reading this article as much as I enjoyed the book Sex and The Narcissist.

  13. lickemtomorrow says:

    Dark Cupid moment for me and I am mind blown by this article again!

    “Control is the sexual encounter for me.”

    “Do you think a sexual encounter should be about something other than control?”

    I laughed at this comment,”

    What an insight. For an empath it’s all about giving up that control and becoming one with another. That’s what intimacy is. There’s no way two people can become closer. To imagine not having that desire is alien to me. Much the same as it must be alien to the narcissist to want to desire that. What a weird combination we are … narcissist and empath. Thinking two completely different things about the most intimate act designed to bring two people together as one.

    At this moment I really want to stop thinking about how many ways I’ve been duped by the narc.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      LET,

      I agree, I view sex in a similar way, something shared to bring you both closer. No secrets, nothing left to hide. I love sex but for me it’s about far more than physical sensation. For me it’s about allowing someone close to me. There’s a lot of trust required. I still see it as something special, not just something to engage in after a boozy night out. I’m old fashioned in this respect, part of me wishes I didn’t hold sex in such high regard, but most of me would rather never have sex again than compromise and ‘just have sex’.

      I’ve slept with only one narcissist and four non narcissists. The narcissist was ‘Best Sex Ever Guy’. That figures, haha! I still think I’d have an issue with a guy in bed who was as good as HG claims to be. Logically if you’re that great then you haven’t just had a lot of sex, you’ve had a lot of partners. If you’ve had that many partners then clearly our views of how intimate sex is are not aligned. Similarly, I think I’d feel like an amateur! That’s not good for my personal enjoyment either is it? (laughing now) It’s a bit like ‘that guy in the gym’ he’s good looking, he’s ripped, but he’s just a bit too perfect. Do I really want to get naked with such perfection? Would such perfection live up to my expectations? Probably not actually.

      So what of ‘Best Sex Ever Guy’ ? Why did these thoughts not kick in with him? Not addiction. He was simply far older than me (18yrs). As such it was to be expected he would be more experienced than my good self. So I had no issue with it. I also didn’t connect the dots as far as number of partners was concerned. I did notice that it was more about sex than emotional connection, at the time though it kind of worked for me, I was rebounding from ‘Love of My Life Guy’. I wanted closeness, I was emotionally invested, but I wasn’t fully committing.

      I’m similar. Like you, I just can’t wrap my head around the idea of sleeping with someone without wanting the emotional content and connection. I suppose the narcissist would argue he gets the emotional content. True, he does, but you can’t fully connect if you don’t transmit. They still miss out. It’s half an experience, a lot of the narcissist’s life is half an experience I think. They are spectators to their own lives in many ways. The false self makes sure of that. We aren’t the only ones that are fooled by narcissism, the narcissist is the one who is fooled most of all. So don’t feel too duped, you weren’t the only one being duped in your relationships.

      Xx

      1. Joa says:

        Ah, TS, how I love your statements 😊

        It’s fascinating, that somewhere there lives a human who looks so much like me 😊

        Even the number of sexual partners is correct, ha ha ha 😊 I already wrote somewhere, that you can count on the fingers of one hand. Of which only two were really important. The rest I would call “trials”.

        Sex is also very important to me. As important as feelings. The physical act itself does not satisfy me, or even attract me. As HG writes – sexual tension, I can relieve myself, with good and quick results. Physiology is easy to learn, especially when you know your own body well.

        Closeness. It is the goal. Difficult to achieve on both sides. For me – the harder the better. I like hurdles 😊

        Definitely! Too perfect is just boring. It is these hooks, nuances, everything to discover, secrets lying at the bottom, shameful areas that are the most beautiful in sex. Physical conditioning and great techniques are worth shit 😊 Nice, if there is, but if there is nothing else, you quickly get bored.

        As for the scam. I don’t care at all about it. I have had beautiful moments. Also in sex. I absolutely do not regret it. I would go this way again and again.

        My only regret is that our daughter suffered. I wish, he could just pretend from time to time. Pity.

        —————–

        Glad, he approached now. I’ve been working on it for months. Our daughter needed it, whatever he was. Even though she rejected him, I can see how it had a positive effect on her. I asked him, not to push, but he did it right away (otherwise he can’t, when he starts to believe and knows that it’s momentary, he explores the moment as much as possible).
        I am grateful to him, although he did not do much by himself, I had to steer very carefully so that he would “want himself”. His ideas, which he was proud of, were actually my ideas, but I gladly gave him all the credit and admiration. I basically lied to him and lied to my daughter – but I know I did well, for both of them. He’s got the door open, what he’ll do next is up to him. They’ll never be close, but they have a chance to make some more contact sometime – or not. It is up to them.

        I also found out how clever I have a daughter. It’s amazing 😊 I’m glad she didn’t hate him. I’m glad she didn’t go into self-pity. Both would be wrong. I did everything to make her understand. The time was right.

        Oops, off topic again, I drove away completely 😊

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Joa,

          “Someone who is just like me”. That made me smile. It is lovely, countries apart, and yet we see the world so similarly.

          I have asked myself a similar question of late. Do I regret my ensnarement? All things considered, I think I would say no, I don’t regret it. That sounds bizarre, because I will admit, the ensnarement did damage me, on balance though I think I’m glad it happened. I’ve learned a hell of a lot about myself as a direct result of that ensnarement. I don’t give credit to the narc for that, I give credit to HG for teaching me, me for questioning and sticking with it, and the empaths here for supporting and teaching me more about myself and my nature. It’s still the case though that without the narcissist I wouldn’t have had my eyes opened, I’d have been oblivious to things that I now see clearly. The world makes far more sense to me now.

          At the time the narc arrived, I needed someone. For a time he was that someone and it got me through. I don’t give him credit for that either, his motivation was purely selfish, but the fact remains, I needed someone and at that point he was there, unwavering, constant, my person. I can’t undo that need, that time, or the deep sadness that followed as a result of my becoming ensnared. I no longer feel that I owe him, I know that I don’t, but, I do accept that at one point it was a symbiotic relationship and one I benefitted from if only for a short time. I didn’t know what he was then, I do now and I won’t forgive the deception and betrayal of trust. The worm has turned. However, I can say that most of the time, I’m not angry, bitter, I don’t feel damaged. Thanks to HG and this place, I feel like I’ve come out fighting, stronger, wiser and far more aware.

          I do see the way you view your narcissist. I do understand that you have also drawn positives from your own ensnarement. His repeated presence though, does make me nervous for you. In the end, it has to hurt and that deep sadness isn’t something I would wish for you or anyone else. Mine almost got the better of me, so whilst I won’t regret my ensnarement I would still say to you, get out, get away from him before you experience more hurt. It’s not worth the risk, he’s not worthy of you, I guarantee it.

          I feel that the narc stole time from me. I was so caught up in trying to make sense of it all, time was slipping by. I don’t think you are someone who always wants a partner or a relationship. I do think though that we sink time and energy into them, two things that could be better spent elsewhere. By continuing to interact with the narcissist, feeding the addiction, we delay what has to happen in the end. Withdrawal and recovery.

          You can connect with an empath. You connect with me and others here. Fair enough, I might have a few strong narcy traits, maybe more than a few haha! Who is to say though, that you wouldn’t find a male empath that you could connect with in a similar way? Sinking time and energy into the narcissist prevents that. Previously, I think you pressed pause. You knew the narcissist would return and you were right. I did similar with the lengthy silent treatments / shelving. We can’t recover and move on when really, we’re waiting. We can once we are recovered though. Recover here. Let HG do what he does best and the empaths here do what they do best.

          I can see why you wish that your daughter had got to know her father. It’s that ideal we all have, the belief that the child has a right to know, ought to know her father. We imagine them getting to know the good parts of their father, the part that we love. When the father is a narcissist, this is based on emotional thinking. Logically, your daughter was far safer, far more stable, far more loved, as a result of her only being with you. Just you, your influence. If he had remained in the picture, he would have influenced you, and her. You might not feel this, but honestly, him being absent I think was better for her. You are enough.

          Please be wary of opening the door to him again. You are fuel, but sadly so is she. There is no loyalty on the part of the narcissist. They take our trust and they grind it into dust without a second thought. There is no healthy parental bond. He can’t offer her anything at all, not in the way that you hope. If you open the door and let him into her life, you can’t predict what he will do but you can predict it will be for his benefit not for hers. You did an amazing job. You raised this strong young girl on your own and instilled in her all of your wonderful ideals, qualities and strengths. She’s now smart, strong, independent, her own person. Don’t have him take those things away from her or from you. Close the door on him instead.

          I hope I haven’t overstepped the mark Joa. I can only be honest and share my thoughts with you. They are sincerely meant and from a place of wanting only the very best for you and your daughter going forward.

          Time to sleep, I’m going to visit London for a few days. Museums and shopping with two teenagers! What could possibly go wrong?!

          Xx

          1. Joa says:

            TS, you are absolutely right. I am convinced that if he raised our daughter, shes life would be destroyed. I think he could go very far. And I think, he realized it too and preferred to leave.

            However, the main reason for his departure was, of course, the better and easier prospects that emerged.

            There is no question of upbringing. If they want to meet someday, on neutral ground and with a possibility of retreat for her, that will be their decision. Maybe someday she would just want to talk to him as an adult woman.

            Thank you.

      2. k mac says:

        I like emotional connection too, just not in bed. Go figure 🤔

        1. NarcAngel says:

          K mac
          I understand that. Sex is not about emotional connection for everyone. There are reasons that some non-narcissists are unwilling to be vulnerable in that regard. Sex is referred to primarily as an “act” after all.

          1. A Victor says:

            NA, thank you for this. I understand it also but I had not understood that it was okay to understand it. You just gave me permission which takes a lot of pressure off. But I don’t like emotional connection even outside the bedroom that much. Thankyou.

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:

          K mac,

          On the face of it, I would say I struggle to understand your preference here, but there are other things that in some ways I consider more intimate than sex. A meeting of minds would be one. That connection, or recognition that the person you are interacting with gets it. That maybe, even just for a few moments, you share exactly the same thought, framed in exactly the same way, with an emotional response that falls in unison. You don’t have to be in bed to have that.

          Similarly, as strange as this sounds, falling asleep together. For me, there’s a massive amount of trust involved there. My guard is often up. I can’t keep my guard and sleep at the same time. In some ways for me to fall asleep snuggled in to my partner signifies greater intimacy than the aware intimacy I engage in through sex. I’m handing over the reigns, something I very rarely do. In a sense I’m relinquishing control or at least demonstrating a huge amount of trust.

          Lastly, holding hands. For some reason, holding hands I find very intimate. It’s probably why HG dislikes it. It is intimate. It signals partnership, equality, it shows I’m happy for someone else to take the lead. Physically, the touch of taking a hand contains a certain vulnerability. I suppose it stems from a parent child beginning. It’s not sexual, rather protective, or alternatively, mildly submissive. Again, allowing someone to take the emotional lead doesn’t come easily to me. Come on too strong for example, and I’ll back up, essentially, because I don’t feel like I have the lead.

          So I have those things that score very highly on the intimacy scale, in some ways more highly than sex. Sex is still very much about intimacy for me personally, very much about trust, demonstrative of my feelings for someone, but I do see how for others it might be less so. There are other ways of being intimate but all of them involve deep emotional connection.

          Xx

          1. Joa says:

            Oh, TS, I’m impressed again. Your words are so close to me. I really liked the part about the intimacy of holding hands.

            Only one thing I disagree with – I don’t have to share the same thought with the man to whom I give myself. I want my thought to be understood even for a moment, and I want to understand this man’s thought for a moment. They don’t have to be the same. They may even be completely different … but they are to get.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Intimacy is not the only reason HG dislikes holding hands. He said long ago that it is a reminder of something. I believe it is related to content in the Knowing HG series.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            NA,

            I realise that this will sound horrendously cold. I know what you are referring to. The reminder of a specific person. Did that come from the cluehunters or HG? If it came from HG then is our interpretation of what that means coloured by our own empathy?

            My thinking here is that for HG to dislike holding hands due to it reminding him of a significant other suggests a missing, a sadness, a love, a respect, a regret, a loyalty, or a reminiscence. All of these rely on emotional empathy, which is absent.

            The rejection intimacy aspect is true to narcissism. The others aren’t. The only other thing I can think of is that it serves as a reminder that his vengeance towards the perpetrators is not yet complete. That would be true to his specific school of narcissism.
            Similarly, the IPPS is not held in the esteem of the original hand holder. So here, it’s more a case of “You aren’t worthy to take my hand.” That to me is tenuous as again it’s suggests a certain reverence, but it’s possible.

            Perhaps I’m doing HG a disservice there. I don’t think so though.

            What do you think?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It is a reminder of a threat to control.

          5. Asp Emp says:

            HG, I did see your words on this in a thread and I remember them x

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:

            HG,

            Thank you for your response. I absolutely hated writing that last comment.

            I think I understand what you mean.

          7. Chihuahuamum says:

            It’s odd i’m coming across this intimacy topic and i never believe in coincidence. I think i was meant to relearn some of this.
            I find with the narc that his ego is so very fragile and i think fear of being one upped or rejected that there is a capsule around him to protect from being ever hurt. I think narcs would rather never risk being close in a genuine way then feel they were used or duped. I find if i do one thing that seems to go against this ego he withdraws certain aspects. It’s very frusterating and i have to remind myself i’m dealing with a personality disordered individual. I can’t expect any differently. It’s so hard tho because it’s even more painful cutting them out of my life. I just can’t do it. I’ve tried for over 10 years. So i basically have accepted this is how he is. Who am i to change anyone except myself.

  14. Duchessbea says:

    HG, sometimes being submissive is just as much fun as being in control. Also the fact she is in such a high powered job might mean that she just can forget the pressure for a few hours and enjoy herself. After all, such a skilled man such as yourself, should have been flattered that she relinquished control to you to please her. Impressive HG. Again, why you waste your time talking with this man, I just don’t know. You are quite clearly more superior in every way.

  15. Asp Emp says:

    Did Dr E hear your muttered comment “Not so cocky now are we doctor?”.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He pretended not to.

      1. k mac says:

        😄

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