Caught in A Lie
I have explained previously that lying is like breathing for our kind. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists tell lies and believe them, they are their truth. They do not recognise that they are lying and therefore there is no question of guilt, remorse or conscience because they do not see that they are doing something which is seen as wrong by you. Such is the joy of ignorance.
Greater Narcissists tell lies where some are believed by the Greater, the True Believer Status of those narcissists which operate in the rarefied atmosphere of control, power and privilege and are responsible for many of the glories and ills of the world you inhabit. However, much of the lies of the Greater are conscious lies and are told because of our innate Machiavellian nature wherein the end justifies the means and therefore there is nothing to be lost by knowingly lying and everything to gain. Unhindered by guilt, conscience or remorse, we will knowingly tell lies to serve our needs which will include the sheer entertainment of knowing we are lying and the impact it has on our victims.
What about when the narcissist is caught in a lie? Many of you will have witnessed this. The Greater is not caught in a lie because the sheer force of our lies, the level of our intellect and the extent of our scheming means that the lie is either undetectable or if it is, we are not caught in it. There is always an exit, whether that is through charm, massive plausible deniability or the operation of some manipulation, the Greater may occasionally have a lie exposed, but is never caught in it.
But what about the the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist? You will have caught them in a lie on many occasions. What happens and surely their reaction means that they know they are caught lying?
No, it does not.
If you boldly accuse a narcissist of lying or you are less candid so you present a contradictory state of affairs between what the narcissist has said and some other evidence, what will you be met with?
This amounts to a challenge to the narcissist. You will be presenting Challenge Fuel and thus there is no wounding. However, your challenge to the narcissist by suggesting, forcefully or with subtlety that he or she has lied, is stating that the narcissist is wrong and thus you are offending the narcissists sense of superiority and seeking to pin accountability on the narcissist. You are not allowed to do this.
These challenges to superiority through our sense of entitlement to do what we want and need and to the lack of accountability threaten our control. Thus you will meet the First Line of the Twin Narcissistic Lines of Defence, which is denial.
You will be told that you are wrong, that this never happened, that you are incorrect, that you are making scandalous accusations, that your memory is haphazard or that you are making things up. All of these things and others amount to denial.
Denial will be maintained again and again and again until either you give up (thus giving the narcissist control and your challenge has ended) or you present something (usually independent corroborative evidence (such as a text, a picture, a video recording or somebody else’s testimony). If you do the latter you break through the First Line and thus you expose the lie.
This means the narcissist MUST in order to maintain control, fall back to the Second Line of the Narcissistic Twin Lines of Defence, which is in effect, any other manipulation and we have plenty of those. To understand more about the Twin Lines of Narcissistic Defence, read The Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence.
However, if you break through the First Line and present evidence showing a disconnect between what the narcissist says has happened and something else, has the narcissist not seen that he has lied? Does he not gain knowledge that he has lied? Is she not now fixed with realisation that she has lied?
No.
The reaction you see is not of realisation that a lie has been exposed but instead the reaction to the loss of control, which you, understandably (because of your worldview) but mistakenly, see as realisation of been caught lying.
It is not.
It is a realisation that something is not right. The unconscious loss of control manifests in a conscious response through the application of the Second Line.
Thus, this is why the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist does not know that he or she is lying and does not see the lie has been exposed, they merely sense a threat to their control and you become the problem which results in the application of a further manipulation through the application of the Second Line.
Dependent on the school of narcissist, the response may be plausible or be completely ridiculous, but it will be used because the narcissist is blind to the lie. All that matters is asserting control and quashing your challenge in some way.
You may receive some ridiculous comment which lacks credibility but it will be accompanied by a manipulation such as physical violence, smashing the phone on which your evidence is presented, a circular conversation, a bout of projection, a sudden massive word salad or any other form of manipulation from the many at our disposal, but it will always come.
It is akin to those films where someone is home alone and the madman or monster bursts into the house. The victim falls backwards, frantically scrambling away and reaching for anything, absolutely anything to use against the advancing threat to counter it. Sometimes the victim will reach for a gun and shoots countering the aggressor, thus that narcissist came up with a plausible response to being caught in a lie, sometimes the victim throws a knife, a candlestick or a rubber chicken. All have varying levels of effectiveness – just like the plausibility of the lie. Often you will still see through it, but it is the accompanying manipulation which enables the narcissist to scramble free of being caught in the lie.
You know the lie has been told, but that is not the issue. It is control and that is what the narcissist seeks. Even if the lie remains live and on the record, if control has been attained by punching you, flouncing off, shouting at you or embarking on a thirty minute word salad monologue then that is all that matters.
But now, let us hear from you, when you have caught the narcissist in a lie, share with us, those absolute corkers and belters that would have Pinocchio embarrassed. Explain the circumstances and what was said and then look at what else happened alongside it to realise how it is not so much the lie that matters but the need for control.
14 thoughts on “Caught in A Lie”
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I thought he was cheating, so i made a fake tinder profile, used a google voice number, fake pics, etc, ensnared him, he agreed to meet “her” and when he called “her” from the rendezvous site, to ask where she was, i pretended to be her for about 30 seconds, to finally prove that “yes, now i have caught you cheating, you ARE a lliar, you do cheat and i have now PROVEN it, you are not talking to her you are taking to ME.”
I know now that he is MMRN. Of course i did not know then then i had awoken and enraged the creature, i didn’t even knew what nsrcissism was. He was caught red-handed, and he unleashed his fury on me on the phone right then and there. It was terrifying. He scared me so badly with the sexual violence he said he was going to do to me, i was scared and looking over my shoulder for 2 weeks. Had he caught up to me, I think he would have carried out his terrible threats.
Of course, he hoovered me back 3 weeks later. And, yes, i paid a price for that transgression, for that wounding. He exacted his price in a way that only the creature could.
Their belief makes them more convincing. Looking back, I should have known. I had an inkling something was off, but didn’t know people could lie about those things. This is a big indicator of narcissism that I won’t overlook again.
The problem is when they are caught in lie they will never admit it . They actually think they are telling the truth even with proof. Sometimes I just dont get it
My first husband lost his belt and tie pin at work. I can’t remember the story he came up with. All of the stories were so ridiculous. By that stage he had proven that he could do anything he wanted; I had nowhere to go.
I did leave him a few months after that, with our 9 day old baby. Went back three months later when he promised that he was going to AA and had joined a church. He shot himself a month after that following an argument that began when I came home from work and found a condom wrapper in my slipper next to the bed. That was the only time I saw him at a loss for words. He couldn’t come up with a story. He looked like a gold fish. It is difficult to think of anything with a brain full of cocaine and alcohol.
KJ, that must have been incredibly traumatic for you. I hope you’re doing OK.
Thank you LT. That was so many years ago. I have been lied to so many times since that those ones don’t even count any more!
So much makes sense, reading this. I used to get so frustrated with myself, because normally in such a situation I would listen to the person’s response, keep calm, explain the facts, and not be deterred by other topics etc. With him, though, it was completely different. I would keep calm, explain etc, but I would be taken off track all the time.
He would get in a rage, and then turn it back onto me. Or I would be accused of being negative, and threatened with discard. I used to get confused and would end up defending myself against what he had said instead of keeping on the original topic, which isn’t normally a problem I would have (God knows why I was so different where he was concerned.) Cue then long rambling, combined with ranting, which didn’t make sense. One time he was particularly vicious (messaging) and I told him I wasn’t going to talk to him and didn’t reply. He then sent a torrent of angry rants, which went on and on. Whenever he was done with ranting, he would then switch to silent treatment. Any attempt to call or message to discuss would either be ignored, or I would get ‘woe is me’ replies, telling me how awful I had been. Writing this all down makes me realise how disordered he is, and how mad I was to ever think I could have any sort of relationship with him, but in the moment I didn’t think that, I just felt confused all the time. Makes me angry with myself. Why didn’t I just say fuck off, you complete prick?
I can relate to so much of this, JB. And especially that last sentence! I honestly don’t know why I put up with it. And I can see it all so clearly now. They really do get us tied up in knots. The first time my most recent narc and I got into a confrontation was over him being caught in a lie and same thing. I ended up being on the defensive and he threatened me with disengagement. LOL to the fact I then started pleading with him. That makes it a hundred times worse! How pathetic was I? In the end I decided to take him at his word and went ‘dark’. Within a few hours he was back with apologies, not wanting to lose what we had.
SMH. I am pathetic! Well, not anymore hopefully.
LET, you are not pathetic at all! Think we were just too flippin’ nice! Making excuses for crap behaviour, trying to see the good in them, all led us to effectively tolerating a load of bullshit. I wish I could be more like some of my friends and be able to say enough is enough and actually feel it too.
‘Apologies’ – what are these then? 😂 Never had one from any of my narcissists! Think mine were all lazy narcissists who couldn’t even put in the effort to pretend properly! Xx
Thank you, JB xox
I’m guessing the friends you are thinking of are maybe more likely to be ‘normals’ and not impacted the same way we are. Kudos to them, and hopefully we can reign in that emotional thinking so we don’t get caught again. As well as “know the narcissist”. Those are my twin defences.
LOL to the apologies. I have to say I got plenty, but of course they were all fake! So, in the overall picture, we’re even 😉 Live and learn. But he had me convinced, so a very effective Mid-Rangers ploy. And the beauty is I can now apply that knowledge along with all the rest.
We’re on the right track, JB. The feelings are hopefully catching up with our heads <3
LET, kudos indeed. It’s definitely got to be easier being ‘normal’! 😂
I’m not sure what I would prefer, grovelling apologies (but then they turn out to be fake), or complete refusal to say anything apologetic sounding, ever! Grrr.. Xx
Give me the truth every time, JB.
I would have sliced him and diced him a lot faster if he had just been honest.
He wasted a lot of breath on those apologies AND a lot of my time.
I won’t get it back, but I will be the wiser for it x
LET yes we are certainly wiser! Although sometimes I wish I could ‘unlearn’ what I now know! Xx
Hello HG,
I did catch my narcissistic sibling in a blatant lie. History was rewritten to create a situation where I was portrayed as the villain. When I produced an email sent by my sibling in which we had discussed the situation years earlier which contradicted what my sibling was now saying, it was simply ignored and not addressed.
I suppose that’s one of the forms of denial you mentioned.
I believe the worst part of dealing with someone with NPD is the lies and projection. I can handle the verbal abuse, but the gaslighting about past events is the most difficult aspect. Thankfully, I went no contact months ago.
Thanks,