The Tinder Swindler
219 thoughts on “The Tinder Swindler”
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60387324
HG, I read this story this morning. It made for interesting reading. There are a number of similarities in ‘actions’ and also the ‘Narcspeak’ language.
My personal experiences ‘taught’ me about con-artists and ‘aided’ me in being ‘aware’. It was good for me to share my story on your blog, thank you for the opportunity for me to do so.
HG, I appreciate you doing the work and sharing ‘The Tinder Swindler’ series to highlight the ‘machinations’ of people who do it and the victims who suffer as a result.
Does he really think the glasses make him look smarter??
I think he does. 🤣🤣🤣
Hilarious!
WhoCares, for the life of me, I cannot recall who actually said it to me, “Do you think they (the spectacles) make me look clever?”. My response? No. My brain-wiring response was like that is a dumb question to ask me (LOL).
Thanks Asp Emp and AV – re: the glasses, I had to ask! I suddenly had flashbacks to in-person court days…and my ex sitting in the common area, posture straight, looking down his nose and over his reading glasses at people…while reading a book or something made from real paper. And I bet he actually though it made him look more distinguished. Which – to some, it would!
Glad for zoom court this last time. Didn’t see him at all!
WhoCares, LOL. Talk about triangulation and “approval” seeking! The levels and the types of hoovers is actually quite staggering. Good that you did not see him via Zoom. Sounds like this court is on the ball RE: ‘shielding’ victims from mental / emotional triggers. I hope it will all be over for you sooner than later x
🥸
It is really scary and even scarier as these are true events. I wish this guy suffers for whatever he has done to those women. This confidence trickster should be behind bars. I don’t even know what he is doing outside.
This person is addicted to tricking people!!
Is it weird that I want to do a consultation just to talk about this in more detail??!
Pahaha BC30! No.
Not at all.
Since a lot of people have been coming down on these women quite harshly… I just want to point out that we have all been scammed even if it wasn’t for money, that’s why we are here. I’ve certainly done things and said things I’m not proud of due to my relationships with narcissists.
He obviously picked women who live in areas with the lowest violent crime rates and where they have probably barely seen a homeless person on the street, so in some ways they were very sheltered which is why hearing about “enemies” was actually news for them and they didn’t question it.
I’m from London where 2 out of 5 men have “enemies” so it’s normal.
Honest and accurate.
You make such good points Witch and I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I notice far too much that in our own lives, women rarely stick together which is sad. It’s lovely to see that was not the case in this instance.
Yes, we can actually have been so shielded (regardless the reasons for the shielding), have been affected by so much cognitive dissonance, be so love struck etc that we are 100% naive and decievable. It is just this type that narcissists look for, from my understanding of what HG says, and was in fact my personal experience, until I reached narcsite. I lost more than these women, completely taken for a ride, it is wrong and it is sad, it is often unprovable and it can happen honestly to well-intentioned people. Narcissists can be very good at what they do.
deceivable* That has been bugging me for two days.
All I can say is… this guy has single handedly set men back by 200 years
Women have been paying for half their dates, letting men live with them rent free, helping men with their gas bill, now after seeing the tinder swindler men would be lucky if they get a gift card for Christmas
As you mention below, I really hope HG goes through the Intimate Partner rotation.
Yep. We’ve all been there.
In real life, I don’t respect the person who allowed herself to be duped.
In real life, respect the person who searched for, found, and utilized the resources needed to recognize, overcome, and avoid duping.
I’m not seeing much self-responsibility or even introspection in this doc; therefore I’m not finding any sympathetic characters or any satisfying denouement—Oh! Just like spending time with narcissists!
“respect the person who searched for, found, and utilized the resources needed to recognize, overcome, and avoid duping” – even if they’re kind of on the older spectrum when they do. Better late than never.
Yes, many have been harsh. I have been judgmental, but OTOH, I empathize. I did some crazy foolishness on account of Narcissists.
100 % Witch – its always easier to look outside oneself then within… I don’t consider any of these women more “stupid” then I was under the smoke and mirrors of a narcissist. I may not have lost money – but I certainly lost many other things of importance throughout my entanglement.
It’s getting a little warm in here already. This is where the narcs have it good. They say what they like. We on the other hand end up offering lukewarm discussion and observation for the most part (or none at all) as not to offend, and that’s too bad because discussion really doesn’t require acceptance, just a willingness to consider and explore other viewpoints.
I’ll stick to something safe. I laughed out loud at his message: Hostel. 1 star.
I doubt he stayed in a hostel and saw it as a pity play to ascertain if she was still on the emotional hook. This (and other questions I have) may be covered in HG’s dissection, so I reserve them for now and look forward to his commentary.
Oh my goodness, you are encouraging straightforward talking…I understand why, and agree…I need to push past the fear…ughhh…it hurts…
The hostel pictures did make an impact on me, but not in the same way. In that particular moment he very much resembled (in his actions) my ex. So I absolutely saw the humor in it – and felt it briefly – but what I brought to it overshadowed the funny part. So, our perceptions are truly coloured by our personality and past experiences.
Ah, yes. A staged pity play. That didn’t register. Good observation.
I am so confused right now.
HG
Is The Shieldmaiden aware of this Tinder Swindler from Netflix or the news and has she commented to you about it?
That would be an interesting conversation.
Both.
And what has she commented? Haha ahh, I know that is personal and intimate and not to be shared. But… That would be an interesting conversation.
She says she’s pleased she did not cry during filming.
It must have been hard. Thank goodness she has you now! (Dramatic irony).
Hahaha, good grief I hope that’s a joke!
Haha ! how do you not break your cover ? don’t you just want to shake people and be like “wake up idiot ! – there’s a Simon sleeping in your bed”
No, the Prime Aims are better achieved without taking such a step in my private life.
As a victim or someone working on the production?
“She says she’s pleased she did not cry during filming.”
That’s an interesting sentence…
It is extremely interesting, Z
It’s a very interesting statement, Z.
WhoCares, it is both extremely and very interesting. But, I think it was a joke…? 🤔
She’ll never know, right? So far as I recall, only one former IPPS knows you are a N.
NA,
Oh how I would like to be a fly on the wall in Tudor house someday, seeing how that conversation went 😀
He would smash you on the wall with one of his Yves St Laurent loafers.
What a horrible thought!!
Omg sorry! Haha I thought he wouldn’t doubt to kill without feelings any insect on his wall.
Haha, I knew what you were thinking and you are undoubtedly correct, but…it’s Z!!
Z, please forgive me! I wasn’t thinking of HG smashing Z, just HG smashing any insect. But if you put Z into the equation … yes, that’s a horrible thought. My apologies!
Happy Valentine’s Day, love devotees of the world!
HG, I am now watching The Tinder Swindler in preparation for your Tudorscope treatment.
I don’t know if I can finish it because I am finding this Cecilie the Norwegian to be unbearably stupid and don’t think I can take much more.
Nevertheless, I will listen to your treatment when it is ready.
lisk,
I have been wondering over her as well and realize many would just claim she was “stupid” to let him dupe her in that fashion.
I was actually thinking she is just brazenly naive – with a deep love devotee trait.. as if she really just didn’t think she could be hurt. You know, just skipping through the woods, singing “Tra-la-la…”
She is fairly articulate and brave to present her story – knowing she may well receive the reaction you and many others would give. It is that she’s unintelligent?
I ended up watching the whole thing.
She’s back on Tinder believing she can swipe herself to L-O-V-E.
So, yes, she is that unintelligent.
The Luxury Brand Lady, on the other hand, is one smart cookie!
“The Luxury Brand Lady” has some narcissistic traits to protect herself – absolutely some Super in there.
Whatever your opinion is on Cecile’s intelligence – the fact remains (and we all here know this) that there are many others out there who are similar to her and maybe, just maybe, her brave sharing of her story will get through to those individuals.
She is hardly brave.
There are individuals out there who have had their life savings demolished by a narcissist in ways that aren’t direct and overt – and trackable – therefore they can’t ever prove financial abuse.
I commend her actions.
🙄
Have you considered, lisk, that the producers know what they’re doing in the telling of this story and the stories of the individual women involved? To let us know that Cecile is back on Tinder, (and seemingly not have learned any better) and leaving the Luxury Brand Lady’s story hanging after her very satisfying pursuit of revenge…What is the best way to get the the message out there? It’s to generate an emotional response on topics that can be polarizing – resulting in a lot of discussion and attention. Job well done on their part.
Yes. No. Maybe.
That is hardly an answer.
She has to be majority if not some large % Super. How else did she dim emotion enough to go back in on stealth without triggering him?
As with all media, editing is everything.
I’m half way through
My first thoughts seeing his tinder profile was a) this guy is fruity
And b) why would someone of that tax bracket need to be on tinder?
I feel really bad for Cecile. She’s very naive and her narc addiction is paramount. I can’t relate to her fantastical notions of love and found it nauseating but at the same time she’s a good person and didn’t deserve this.
(When the second woman said she put a Prince emoji next to his phone contact name, she said “do straight women really do this? Do you know what I have next to your name?….. your surname”
🤣
@witch
Okay finished watching so as an outsider it’s very easy to tell that this was a con… if you’re a billionaire then you wouldn’t be on tinder and would know at least a dozen other rich people you could borrow money from rather than your broke girlfriend.
Saying you have “enemies” makes it seem like you’re in a drug cartel and shouldn’t be trusted. Where I’m from a man only has “enemies” if he’s a drug dealer or owes a drug dealer money.
If your baby mum thinks you’re so great why isn’t she with you anymore?
The fruity vibes he’s giving off had me thinking the scars on his back must be from a previous rendezvous in which he got his back blown out by a man (probably Peter)
However I’m saying this post narcsite as an outsider. I don’t know what may have happened to me if I encountered this guy pre-narcsite. Having said that…tinder really needs to mercy ban cecilie before she wastes another 7 years or dates a serial killer next
If those women are able to emotionally endure media attention for as long as they can to make some of the money back then good for them!
Witch,
“My first thoughts seeing his tinder profile was a) this guy is fruity…”
The thing that stood out for me is the flatness of his voice in those brief clips. They comfort crumbs devoid of emotion. Some of that could be put down to cultural differences.
The only discernable emotions, in his voice, are the anger and contempt in the later vitriolic messages.
@whocares
I agree he speaks with a monotone voice. I suppose this is where his narcissism is not able to express verbal affection convincingly.
I also wonder how some of his victims are placed in his fuel matrix… was the model his IPPS and the rest secondary sources or was Ayleen the IPPS going through a devaluation?
Was it that all his victims were being constantly rotated as IPPS’s and SIPPS’s?
I’m also still baffled about narcissism and planning. Apparently unaware narcissists don’t plan but in some cases like this one it definitely appears that they do, even if they genuinely believe they are not doing anything wrong or the wrongdoing is justified
I wouldn’t call her stupid and I hate victim blaming in general. She is delusional. But let’s also remember victims #2 and #3, who do not seem so “stupid” also fell for the same BS. I think the last victim, who everyone here has lauded for her “heroic” behavior, was the one who loaned him the highest amount of money. $150,000 if I remember correctly.
Good point, SP.
The last two woke up!
The second one was not even romantically involved with him and we know little about what happened to the third one after this, only that she’s selling the clothes on EBay-of all places-.
I am enjoying this thread a lot. So much suspense until HG publishes his analysis!!
🙄
I’m enjoying this thread so much despite your eye roll!
Mmm now that I remember, the other two found out what he was thanks to the fact that Cecilie was contacted by the police, right? She was clueless, while the third one acted defensively because she already found the information that was published about him after C’s denounced him.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Funny how Cecilie and Pernilla are currently holidaying in Greece together 🤨
Just saying
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dear Mr Tudor,
Now the girls are huge sensations after Netflix and are signing up to do sponsored media posts demanding £2,000 a show and could end up with £10,000 per instagram post
I would’ve thought a normal person would not want to be identified and wish to remain anonymous
Sorry, to me, this is now turning into a circus
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
1. They have debts.
2. They want others to know about his behaviour.
3. They are trying to turn a “bad thing” into a “good thing” – not everybody would go down that route, they would wish to remain unknown (e.g. the Finnish victims), but other people will react differently owing to the presence of ET.
Thank you for saying this, HG. I think it is completely understandable the two girls have become friends (I so which I could be friends with my narc’s other IPSSs) and have found a way to turn their case into a business at the same time they help others. They have created a platform using/mocking the threat Simon used to throw at them when confronted: “Every action has a reaction.” The Action:Reaction organization is a charity foundation in Norway that helps victims of fraud. Bravissime!
Why did I spell which instead of wish? Everyone criticizing Cecilie’s intelligence while here I am typing nonsense.
I am glad if they can sell the story for money. It would be even better if they learned something from their experiences on a personal level, but either way, it’s a great place for HG to get more info regarding narcissism out to the public.
Do you think our ET can help
Us sometimes H.G. ? Like in this case… sure they’ve revived a lot of public ridicule, and naturally he’s still out there conning people. BUT it must feel pretty dam good to be taken seriously enough that a doc was made and now they’ve exposed him on an international level ? No… I would quite enjoy that feeling I think.
Dear Mr Tudor,
I understand what your saying, but I feel they’re not representing themselves in a sincere and genuine manner, you know me, I’d be the first to empathise. Just not feeling it this time round.
Maybe I’m just too suspicious and skeptical in my old age ….I’ll blame you for that 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
“not everybody would go down that route, they would wish to remain unknown (e.g. the Finnish victims), but other people will react differently owing to the presence of ET.”
Yes, the Finns may have read your work already and understand the power of GOSO. (Plus, I’m sure a bit of Sisu got them through.)
Do empathetic people want to remain annoymous ? Before finding H.G. I’d be shouting this from the roof tops too ! And honestly…. it’s GOOD they are profiting from the injustice. Why not ? Why should they not profit and hopefully be able to pay off this debt they incurred. I say good for them… it won’t stop him from doing what he’s doing , it won’t stop people from insulting them and calling them stupid , but it will bring a massive amount of attention to a professional con artist … and if saves just one person from getting messed up with him then it’s totally worth it.
Also check out their GoFundMe page!
Bubbles, are you saying maybe they were somehow in on something together? Oh wow…the plot thickens…😳
Well, Cecilie does seem like she is over-acting in the doc—and if that’s the case then she’s not so stupid after all.
Frankly, this guy looks a little boy wanker and I don’t get the attraction on any level. So maybe this really is all a made-for-TV set-up . . . .
It isn’t.
She is probably not used to acting. Can you believe I find the guy cute? Haha don’t judge me!
She is acting all the time, every moment of her life. It is so sadly obvious. Maybe one day she’ll get to the depth of who she is but right now she’s all surface and story.
Yes, I can believe how people can find the guy cute—but isn’t the designer stuff a turn-off?!
Oh, absolutely. I commented on another thread that that tendency to wear labels like a sponsored Formula 1 pilot is extremely tacky. Too much bling. I also hate the typical one-piece something: swimming dress, winter coat, rain coat… that spells in gigantic print: GUCCI!!!! They remind me of the sandwich board men in the past.
Wow Lisk, what good insight, regarding her acting! That is how I was! Thank you for pointing that out. It also explains why she didn’t learn anything from her ensnarement with this guy, mind-boggling but now I understand. Thank you.
Speaking of designer stuff… I was intrigued about the many IG profiles, one Simon Leviev followed me for a while but there were other accounts with name variations…And then I found one that claims to be the official one. It is private and says “only respectful people” and “the other side of the coin.” I wanted to learn the other side of the coin hahaha. So I made a fake profile with some bikini pics -not showing my face of course- and voilà, got accepted. He has nearly 8,000 followers and what he follows: Gucci, Fendi, Moschino, Yves St Laurent, Dolce&Gabbana…. Ridiculous. He is dating a dark haired model, it seems. I already deleted that account. Not interesting.
@lisk
“ She is acting all the time, every moment of her life. It is so sadly obvious. Maybe one day she’ll get to the depth of who she is but right now she’s all surface and story.”
Certain types of codependents can come across that way when talking about their dating lives. It is jarring but that’s how they appear to cope with abuse by minimising it and saying stuff like “maybe god brought this person into my life for a reason and used me for a purpose”
And it’s like nah god didn’t use you, man dem used you!
Lisk, I agree, this guy does not speak to me at all either, in any way. But, that ET, with the proper empath/narc combo and the proper handling of that empath, this could be me! My son watched the tinder swindler almost to the end last night, he was going to suggest it to me. He just told me he’d give a credit card to a woman he was involved with if there weren’t issues between them after 4 months! For two weeks! And once it was maxed out he’d stop it!! I have bigger concerns than any personal narcissist right now! 😂 But, at 19 he’s not going to listen to me anyway!
Interesting Lisk, I didn’t perceive her as overacting at all. I felt like her emotions whilst alot more open than my own were in fact genuine. This is no criticism at all, just an observation of how we all view other people including fellow empaths so differently.
AS, thank you again! Yes, different schools and cadres will look different in the same circumstance, I can recognize it but hadn’t put it together that way, very helpful.
@lisk
Speaking of codependents…
I’ve fallen out with my codependent friend who has a narcissist as an on and off partner, well he managed to drive a wedge between us and now we aren’t on speaking terms.
Sometimes even empaths make terrible friends when they are repeatedly in relationships with narcs, so until she sorts her life out when it comes to the kind of men she’s choosing as partners, we aren’t going to be friends. I can’t do it anymore because at this point it’s really starting to feel like dead weight to me.
Lovin’ your boundary setting!
You flot some. You jet some!
Now that you’ve lightened your load, I wish you finer folks in your freed-up space 😘
Dearest A Victor,
When I first viewed the show, I felt sorry, shocked and sad for them …..then my perception changed
I just don’t trust the ‘whole’ story
I don’t like the fact they’re roping in the dollars, (they all have excellent paying jobs) pensioners and the like aren’t as fortunate
I could well be wrong, I certainly have been in the past 🤣😂🤣😂
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles, it’s getting so I believe conspiracies do exist. My faith in humanity continues to plummet…😢
But, at least the rose colored glasses are off and I can protect myself and inform those I care about. 😊
Thank you for your view, I appreciate it and will remain aware. 💕
AV
Dearest A Victor,
You and me both haha
The latest update I just received, Simon’s security guard, Peter, is now suing Netflix for not asking his permission for being filmed……gee whiz golly gosh
He’s now mentally affected with anxiety and depression
See what I mean about this turning into a circus….or should I say ratings haha 🎪
Can hardly wait to see what’s next ????
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
All this drama attests to HG’s ultimate advice: Once you know, you go.
What drama?
See subthread discussion above my comment.
The back and forth about the truth of the situation, I think. I need dinner drama now and then, apparently. As long as it’s harmless.
Hm, dinner drama is fine, once in a blue moon, since I need some** drama now and then, apparently.
Bubbles, I had actually thought about that!! How did they get him in on it? Ha, they hadn’t and now someone will pay. But, you know that was likely already figured in, a small price for the ratings most likely. And likely done knowing he wouldn’t cooperate if asked ahead of time. Yes, the circus carries on! 😂
I’m not sure Bubbles, I feel sorry for them, they went through a lot and I feel they deserve every penny they make from this. From my perspective number 1 and 3 would be thinking of others as well as themselves. Not so sure re number 2. Plus lets not forget some of their empathy will have been completely eroded.
Yes AS, this was how I originally viewed them, even as some of their behaviors in front of the camera, especially 1 and 2, seemed a bit odd. But, having been swindled by narcs myself, and not knowing what had hit me until I arrived here, I overlooked the odd behaviors, explaining them as you did, eroded empathy etc. So Bubbles idea is intriguing to me, what if they’re all in on it?? 😂 I don’t believe this is so, but we may never know…
They’re not.
Thank you for that confirmation HG.
HG said, “They’re not”.
Hmmm well hurry up and tell us they’re not, properly! Otherwise I’m on it with AV’s conspiracy, all the way hahaha
You will wait and do so quietly.
Oh god! That’s just so sexy! I don’t even care any more whether you do the articles or not x
Damn, he is good…
Yay!! Jump on into the conspiracy boat AS!! 😂
Dear Mr Tudor, Alexis, A Victor,
This is why we need Mr Tudor’s professionalism
It’s always so challenging when there’s a narcissist involved
My involvement with my narc never equated anywhere near on this massive horrendous scale
At least I now question everything whereas before I never used to
I would definitely not make jury duty 😂
Sorry lovelies, I was just putting it out there as I am getting it on my news feed ….always interesting to speculate 🧐
As they say…..Love is blind …..and unfortunately naive
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Wow, I just watching this and some other footage. It’s an amazing example of how they use juggle/compartmentalize appliances on a grander scale – but is likely reflective of how all narcissists operate with their fuel matrix – only with fewer players – and less money in most cases.
I look forward to hearing you weigh in HG.
Not to take away the attention from this particular article RE: The Tinder Swindler.
I happened across Anna Delvey / Sorokin in a magazine earlier today. She also scammed her way to lead people to think she was an heiress.
Reading the BBC report on the story about Anna, I was interested to learn that the same lawyer who represented her had a link to the Ghislaine Maxwell trial………small world, eh?
Asp Emp,
Yes, the Ana Sorokin case is really interesting, I watched a documentary on it a while ago. “If you’re impressed by a $100 tip, then I don’t know what to tell you.” Got to hand it to her, she quite literally turned everything into a positive.
I wasn’t going to watch this, but watched it last night. I didn’t have Simon as a narc, I had him as a Psychopath similar to Sorokin. I think he’s driven by money, status, lifestyle and the game that is the con as opposed to fuel. I’m awful with narc schools and cadres though, so I’m likely way off.
The women I’d say 1. Standard Geyser, 2. Standard Carrier, 3 Super Saviour. I really felt sorry for the first girl, she was reliving the seduction as she spoke. Loved girl 3, she cracked me up when she was laughing about selling his clothes. Funny as.
Xx
TS, Rachel DeLoache Williams “This doesn’t get to define me, and I look forward to leaving it in the past. I hope for a time in the near future where she can be a footnote in my story, and not the main event”. It was this comment that made me mention Anna on this thread. (https://www.pressreader.com/uk/closer-uk/20220201/281792812424030)
Reading Rachel’s words as above is basically similar to what we, on this blog, are learning to do about our own lives.
Your ‘thinking’ RE: Simon being in it for as opposed for fuel is an interesting statement. It still amounts to Prime Aims (life goals).
Thank you for your response and your views, interesting to read 🙂
Almost finished watching ‘Inventing Anna’ (about Sorokin). On Netflix. The fact that she was able to fool many with a voice changer/distorter app so she could pose as her male, lawyer/banker out of Germany was disturbing. Didn’t realize those apps existed and were actually effective.
StrongerWendy,
I watched an Australian 60 minutes on her. I haven’t seen the Netflix version. I’ll watch it tonight thank you!
Australian 60 minutes- the eyes of the interviewer are as scary as Anna Sorokins..😨
Jasmin,
Haha I didn’t notice that, I was focussed on her. I’ll have to look at that again!
Hi TS,
If you do so, please let me know what you think!
The psychologist appears to be empathic. Based on her eyes and facial expressions.
Hey Jasmin,
I’m gearing up to watch the Netflix series about Anna so rewatched the 60 mins Australia documentary.
I see what you mean about the male interviewer. His eyes are flat. His intonation is good and he smiles readily, but the smile doesn’t extend to the eyes.
In contrast the psychologist Maria Konnikova is full of expression. She is either entirely enthused by her research and subject, or, she is empathic, maybe both! Empaths do really enjoy understanding why people behave as they do. We are monitoring people repeatedly I think. Consciously or subconsciously, we look for proof that the person is as we believe them to be!
Konnikova has written a book called The Confidence Game. It’s all about the art of the con. Really interesting, detailed about how people manipulate others in benign and malign ways. Can highly recommend! Soon, I’m going to be bomb proof all round haha!
Hi TS,
Thank you very much for sharing your observations!
After every interaction I have, I go through it afterwards and put things together. I often pic up on ‘things’ that I didn’t notice in the moment.
My guess is that Maria Konnikova is both empathic and enthused! ☺
Thank you for the book tips.
Bomb proof all around made me smile – good thing to be!
Jasmin,
You’re very welcome. I think that’s a great habit to get into. Some things don’t register when we are within the conversation, but if we can replay that conversation afterwards and put it through the filter of what we learn here, I think things can become more noticeable.
If you are doing that, you’ll love that book !
Xx
SW, now why did I think of the 600 cats lady when I read your comment? 😉
Ha ha! No I don’t think HG uses a voice distorter. Unless he was flipping through voice options and saw “sexy, baritone Englishman with Recieved English accent” as an option. No, there’s just one HG voice 😊
*received, not recieved…
Laughing RE: “Unless he was flipping through voice options”. As if he would! He’d only use his own.
Wow! Can’t wait for more. I watched it last night.
HG, please could you also include a breakdown of what the women were in terms of schools/cadres too please.
The first one broke my heart wow she is exactly as you describe some empaths to be romanticising over her Prince. Not something I ever did but it was so sweet to see her talking about it.
Number 2 I found interesting and also surprising that she would be taken in.
Number 3 I loved!
Make it worth my while and I shall.
You know I’d make it worth your while!
As I always advise, let’s see the evidence.
What should we offer him? We could put them on a Show Me the Empath list…or cash?? How much do think??
Alexissmith, this is an excellent idea!! Thank you for thinking of it! Let’s guess: 1-CoD/Geyser – she is so outwardly emotional and willing to give it all! 2-Standard/Magnet – I think she benefited him in ways besides monetary, and she wasn’t sucked in quite so completely. 3-Super/Savior – She did not hesitate to draw a line and carry out the Supernova of all Supernovas when she learned the truth, she was willing to save him for a period of time but then saw the injustice toward herself and the other women and did what she could to save the situation.
AS, I hope HG will address this! This is a fascinating side to it as well!
AV,
I think you’re right about the Codependent part for sure!
Interesting thoughts AV! I love your thinking.
1. Likely has some geyser in her. She’s desperately sweet, I know that much.
2. I’m not sure about at all. If I were to have met her not knowing what I know. I would have thought narcissistic but not an N.
3. Appeals to me a lot, she has to be on the super level to want the revenge like that. But not sure about whether saviour or not. I don’t see her as particularly magnetic.
AS, are Saviors magnetic? No, I also didn’t see number 3 with Magnet per se, but I don’t know much about that cadre.
I am super intrigued by the idea that number 2 is a narcissist!!! Not even surprising but I didn’t think of it, she’s a victim, right, why would I? But he kept her around, and it was different for sure from the others. Thank you!
AV, I think she may be a Carrier. We make good listeners, we are practical, resilient, loyal, and are often better as secondary sources than as IPPSs. Notice she says in the documentary he immediately realized they were not meant to be a couple but good friends instead.
SP, thank you, that makes a lot of sense! I have a healthy dose of Carrier and I know when I use it, but it is not one I have focused on much as it’s not my primary. This helps fill out my understanding of Carriers more, really appreciated!
Well I don’t know if I’m correct, but that’s my impression. A friend said once that Carriers sound like the Taurus of empaths. I’m a Taurus too. Haha
Hey fellow Taurean Carrier. 😉
Woohoo! I knew I liked you a lot for some mysterious reason ❤️
SP – 💜
I’m a Pisces Savior…that actually kind of works. But, I’m not into astrology really, I find it kind of fun sometimes is all.
I used to labour under that misconception. That where there was abuse it was always between a narc and an empath (I thought normals were rare unicorns so didn’t even consider them haha). I thought when both people in a relationship were combative that one was an empath awakened and fighting back. It wasn’t until I read HG’s articles When Narcissists Collide that it clicked that sometimes it’s two narcissists. Well that cleared a lot up. I sometimes read here for instance situations described by ACONS where they believe one parent is an E and the other an N, when it may well be 2 N’s. It can be hard to be objective or too painful to consider when it’s that close, so the NDC is the best way to confirm in order to get a true picture and to be able to proceed in our learning unclouded by emotion and misconception.
It can still be a bit confusing to me and I still have questions such as:
If there are 2 N’s in a relationship (a Lower Mid male who regularly physically assaults a Middle Mid female for example).
Is the Middle Mid getting beaten a victim? They may well be in the Victim cadre but I mean are they considered a victim in the way that we see others (E’s and normals) as victims? Or is that merely viewed as both N’s getting their fuel and undeserving of our empathy?
Oh, yes, NA, thank you for this! I had two N parents and was confused my entire life about their dynamics yet still don’t think of that with regard to other situations. Hopefully your comment here will help me remember to do so going forward!
Oh no! Please, don’t say the one I thought was Carrier is a narc. Wait, am I also a narc? Here we are again.
No, SP, you are not a narc, absolutely not.
I wonder from time to time, AV. That, and whether I got Covid.
I have wondered about those too, but not the narc one since HG confirmed me as an Empath.
But I’m a hypochondriac Empath!
Hahaha!!! I guess that would be the outcome then!! 🤣
Sweet P, I still question if I’m a narc too. I often think maybe I answered the questions wrong on the EDC. I can be selfish and judgemental and have black and white thinking.
Ugh! I really hate narcissism!
Just by questioning whether you answered the questions right is a proof you don’t have black and white thinking, Leigh. In my case it goes something like this: “I am really vain. What if I am a narc? But I suffer if anyone is going through trouble! Wait. Do I really suffer or is it just cognitive suffering? No no, SP. You care about people. You do things for strangers. Yes but, did I do these things to tell others that I did these things? Did I know someone was watching…?” The list goes on. I’m losing my mind.
Sweet P, your list made me chuckle. I can definitely relate. I often question why I’m doing something too.
When I say I think in black and white I mean that I see things as wrong or right or good or bad. Sometimes I lack understanding or compassion. Those are the moments I really wonder if I’m a narc.
In moments of doubt, I always remember one infallible point: I would never eat my own vomit, I.e.: hoover an ex? YUCK NO.
Sweet P, I have to tell you a funny story about how my mind works.
On Facebook, I’m friend with one of my childhood friends. I’ve known him since I was 9. I also know his wife. We went to high school together. It was his birthday last week and she posted a bunch of pictures of them, one was from their prom. I saw the picture and instantly wanted to call him by his childhood nickname. I stopped for a second and said to myself, “Wait, did she just meet the hoover execution criteria and now I’m trying to assert control?” I kid you not! I ended up wishing him a Happy Birthday and I did call him his childhood nickname. If I’m a narcissist then I asserted control, if not I just wished him a happy birthday. No harm, no foul either way. But my brain is constantly thinking like that now. Lol!
NA, after rereading this comment, I realized the last paragraph read differently than I initially thought. I would say she is a victim but she is a victim with her own agenda and is allowing it for her own reasons. That she can pull away any time it suits her, without a backwards glance, makes her much less of a victim. If he kills her, she will be a victim though, so there is an element of it but not like E’s or normals would be. I think…?
Okay, no, having rethought this, no, she is not a victim. She would only be a victim if he killed her, up to that point, she has allowed it for her purposes, therefore, she is not a victim. I have no empathy for my parents issues, they both allowed and caused everything they received from one another.
NA,
“If there are 2 N’s in a relationship (a Lower Mid male who regularly physically assaults a Middle Mid female for example).”
Ah, these questions are great. I have some input.
As you know I have spent time in a women’s shelter. And I am always applying HG’s work in a very practical way in my life – as it’s become a survival skill. At the shelter there were definitely a few women that I would describe as lower to middle Mid-rangers (they had empathic speech and what looked like empathic gestures but when you watched them very closely they actually did very little hands-on parenting and they played very nasty games with other female victims (who were in a weaker position – for lack of a better term – or more vulnerable).
I honestly believe that some – not all – but some of these women were Mid-rangers that got into a relationship with another Mid-ranger or a lesser, that then resulted in the female receiving actual blows (providing hard-core evidence) that they were victimized. Which they were. They were absolutely abused. But they of course identify as empaths and have learned (unconsciously) to work the system and sway the empathy of the shelter workers.
NA, if I may jump in. I have some thoughts on this. I have a friend who I believe is a UMR Elite. She’s highly educated and calculates. She was married to an Upper Lesser. The one like Donald Trump. He was hugely successful. He made a boatload of money. He would also beat the crap out of her. She had a beautiful home and two beautiful children. She is alos an alcoholic and how he was able to get the kids away from her. She hasnt seen her kids in 4 years. She hasn’t tried to see them either. She is not a victim but she knows how to play that role very well.
She made no attempt to fight for her children or her home. She just whines that he took everything she ever had. In my opinion, if victimhood serves their purpose, then they are victims. But they aren’t victims in the true sense of the word.
I remember Mr. Tudor saying once that narcissists need our emotional output because it validates their existence. Two natcs together can definitely validate each others existence. In my friends instance, even when he would beat her up, it validated her existence.
One last thing, I know you don’t like the label of victim. Neither do I. I’m not a victim, I’m a survivor.
Leigh,
I know you directed your comment at NA but I was reading along and this is such a good thing to highlight:
“In my opinion, if victimhood serves their purpose, then they are victims. But they aren’t victims in the true sense of the word.”
They are essentially triangulating with their “victimhood” to procure fuel, etc. from other sources. Thanks for sharing your real life example. It truly helps illustrate this. They actually don’t want to move beyond the state of victim but, instead, use their advantage.
Wow, Who Cares! I’ve never looked at it that way but that’s definitely it. That was lightbulb moment for me for sure! Thank you for your comment.
Sometimes I wish I had some carrier in me. If I do it’s a smidgen. My empathy comes more in strong and powerful bursts and it would have to be something hugely, hugely important for me to continue. Otherwise I tire of it quite easily. I think my husband is possibly carrier/CD. I’ve not done the ED on him. He’s much calmer than I am.
Alexissmith,
“Sometimes I wish I had some carrier in me. If I do it’s a smidgen.”
It has it’s drawbacks. Carrying the emotional load for a sustained period of time can be very damaging – especially in combination with certain other cadres – in my opinion.
But I get what you are saying.
It’s a little bit like when the straight-haired girls want curly hair and the curly-haired girls want to straighten their hair.
*it’s drawbacks
Oh FFS. Autocorrect.
*ITS
Yes, combined with Savior, ugh, very heavy. It is why I didn’t laugh for many years.
Very heavy is right, AV. I can notice myself go for months at time not being silly or a “fun” mom at all – mostly because I take my job in that role too seriously.
I realized this past year, it’s got really bad. I almost have to force myself to just chill, let some stuff go – and be silly with my son. It is not a good spot to be entrenched in – and Covid hasn’t helped one bit.
One reason I so appreciate the humour here.
Yes, that’s how I was when under the influence of the narcissist and for some time afterward. I hope you can find a balance, it is difficult when we take it so seriously to do so though, I totally relate to that!
That’s why you guys need to be a Heyoka Empath, it’s all laughter here. I’m kidding! Or not.
SP, hahahaha, I’ve heard HG’s video on this and still don’t know what it is exactly, not on HG, I just didn’t connect it to anything in my mind. I need to listen to it again, clearly! 😂
Oh yeah – I forgot about that about you SP! Hahaha!!…it all makes sense now.
You sacred clown, you.
😉😉
Are you a Geyser Alexissmith? “Strong and powerful” bursts made me wonder. If you don’t tell, I understand.
I am not calm. AT ALL.
Really?! I’m seriously surprised by that SP!
Alexissmith, I have some Carrier and I hate it. It isn’t what I want to be doing, my Savior is much more natural to me and the bit of Geyser I have is much more fun. That damn Carrier makes me responsible, overly responsible, it’s ridiculous, and fairly capable also, once people realize this, they try to take advantage of it many times, it’s annoying. I just need to be free. Thankfully it isn’t a lot, I think if I was majority Carrier, I’d likely love it, but as it is, it adds a burden to the Savior, if that makes sense. I should probably come to terms with this aspect of who I am. I used to dislike my Geyser but now I am coming to enjoy it.
Oh my god. I screenshot this. I may print it out too. It really hit home. Thanks for sharing AV. 💜
My Magnet part wants to do be free to do magnet-y type things…and the Carrier aspect is shouting, “No, you have a child!”
Uh. It is a good mix though, for self-presenting in court.
WhoCares, glad you enjoyed my comment, it is so interesting to come across someone else who gets it! And your experience with it mixed with Magnet is also interesting to me since I have no Magnet. I just need to be free to be me, 😁
“I just need to be free to be me, 😁”
Exactly, AV.
It IS good to find someone else who “gets it.”
Alexis, Carrier is the worst! Lol! I agree with AV. Its the piece that makes me too responsible. I’m equal parts carrier, savior and geyser. I love my savior. It makes me feel like superman. “Here I come to save the day.” Geyser is my favorite though. Its the piece thats all about me. Its how I feel and release emotions by laughing, crying, releasing anger, a great orgasm. Sorry if I got a little dirty there. My geyser is explosive at times but it is so needed!
You guys complain too much when there’s so much material to analyze and so many HG videos to listen to! Everyone back to work! Chop, chop!
“Chop, chop, hubba, hubba,” SP!
Haha.
From “Cars”…I think?
WhoCares
I’m sure you’re right and some of those you observed at the shelter were narcissists themselves. This is why it gets so muddy at times. If one were to make an observation about the behaviour being off of some of those (likely narcissists) at the shelter (say for example to keep them from ensnaring others) in the current climate, the observer would automatically be met with accusations of victim shaming and blaming even though they may be on track in their observations. If they are MR narcs they are unaware and believe themselves to be victims. Are we expected to view them as such also? extend our empathy and turn a blind eye to the red flags in order not to be labelled ourselves? This is some of what was behind my question.
NA,
“Muddy waters” is an apt term.
“If one were to make an observation about the behaviour being off of some of those (likely narcissists) at the shelter (say for example to keep them from ensnaring others) in the current climate, the observer would automatically be met with accusations of victim shaming and blaming even though they may be on track in their observations.”
It’s not something I would try and sway the shelter workers about because what you said is a definite possibility. I did however have some interesting conversations with a transitional worker and she recognized one individual as extremely manipulative when I described a particular scenario (and I didn’t even have to name the individual, she knew exactly who I was talking about, as this individual had been in the shelter 7 times and had made herself known for her poor behaviour). So, the behaviour is witnessed but (as ever) attributed to something else: that they have been hardened by their life circumstances, are in “survival mode” and therefore have learned to manipulate in order to just get by.
I would never outright suggest this to anyone and, in fact, have refrained from sharing that experience here (until your comment) because most, without our learning here, would not recognize it for what it is. I considered what would happen if I tried to point out some of this dynamic to the more savvy shelter staff – but then I thought, what of the children involved? If their mother was an mid-ranger and father a lesser – their stint in the shelter environment (while they’re stuck in the system anyway) may actually get them respite from a lot of abuse and be exposed to some empathic shelter staff to get a comparison – and some real caring.
“Are we expected to view them as such also? extend our empathy and turn a blind eye to the red flags in order not to be labelled ourselves?”
Well, in my example the shelter staff clearly viewed them as victims – and the system does (because there actual evidence of abuse.)
These are really good questions.
Probably the best answer is to get HG’s work out there.
@whocares
I agree, everything has its draw backs… I frown a lot due to all of this emotional baggage and now I need Botox
Witch, frown lines suck.
I think this may go through twice Witch, but frown lines suck. I got mine from my dad.
I literally have no idea what he is an NP for sure. Good control over his fury until he is desperate. Clearly pretty smart and knows how to lure his victims although uses the same technique for each of them which is a little one dimensional but if it works it works.
Sam vaknin – a greater cerebral got caught out and had a stint in prison so I couldn’t rule him out as a greater. He is cold, cold, cold and calm under pressure apart from his little outbursts, so has to be a P.
He’s definitely elite. Possibly greater or perhaps just a mid range who would be king. I’m definitely intrigued.
Hurry!
Please x
AS, just reread this comment. I see the P also, as well as the N in the desire for, the expectation of, the “good life”, the manipulation of these women, even the outbursts are clearly manipulations, used when he believes they will work best. That fury is there. I think he does have a need for fuel, I think the constant people, the need for multiple women indicates that. And, I think HG had talked about the seduction routines, when something works, why change it? It’s all about easy for them. This guy had quite the fuel matrix going on, and, he has been quick to turn everything to his advantage. I’d actually be a little frightened if I was girl number 3, who is profiting from his clothes. I will guess middle greater elite. My dad, and many others in show biz etc, UMR elites, none have this going on. There is my guess. Can’t wait to hear HG’s thoughts on this guy.
AV, in repsonse to your points below
“Are you a Geyser Alexissmith? “Strong and powerful” bursts made me wonder. If you don’t tell, I understand.
Alexissmith, I have some Carrier and I hate it. It isn’t what I want to be doing, my Savior is much more natural to me and the bit of Geyser I have is much more fun. That damn Carrier makes me responsible, overly responsible, it’s ridiculous, and fairly capable also, once people realize this, they try to take advantage of it many times, it’s annoying. I just need to be free. Thankfully it isn’t a lot, I think if I was majority Carrier, I’d likely love it, but as it is, it adds a burden to the Savior, if that makes sense. I should probably come to terms with this aspect of who I am. I used to dislike my Geyser but now I am coming to enjoy it.”
I did an ED with HG when he first started doing them. I decided I didn’t want to fill in the forms, I just wanted HG to base it on what he knew about me from the blog lol. My mother always said I was “difficult”. My husband jokes with me that he realised I was trouble on our wedding day, when he saw how quickly my mother ran down the aisle with me hahahah
Anyway, re Geyser, I think I must have some element of this because I get over things very quickly. Pick myself up, dust myself down and look for the next thing! always with a positive outlook that next time (whether it be work related or friendship related etc) will be better hahah But I certainly don’t get gushy or emotional in the sense that some Geysers do. I do rather like Geysers though and like you, I’ve learned to love that part of me too 🙂
I definitely have saviour, I don’t have carrier. I can do things for a short period of time, but I think perhaps my emotional energy can drain quickly also. I think I have some contagion, but I try as hard as I can to block that out and I’ve largely mastered it. My grandmother was a full on contagion I suspect. The kindest most wonderful person you could ever meet. But for example, she couldn’t even be in the same room as someone who was vomiting as it would cause her to vomit. Even being in a different room and knowing they were she would.
My husband I believe to be a carrier has no saviour in him. But if someone asks him to do something, he will do it and to the best of his ability each and every time. But he has no desire to save people. Our boundaries are different. When I think back to how I used to be. He will only give part of himself, where as I would give it all but for a shorter period, recharge then do it again. He is far more stoic. Gives less (not to me) but for a longer period of time. He will eventually reach a point when he realises people are taking advantage then he will simply cut them off, no talking to them, no trying to resolve it. he’ll have enough and that will be that. But it takes him a very long time to get there. I reach that point pretty quickly.
I believe he also has strong magnet in him, his is more subtle than mine. People adore him and he never upsets anyone. I’m marmite! But I would say I get one well with most people, but there are a strong hardcore who despise me. Usually women and very often those whom are far more attractive, younger, more popular, wealthier more intelligent etc than me. It made no sense? I’d never done anything to harm them. I used to wonder why, why do they hate me so much? why do they seem so jealous? they have way more than I do, they have no need? Now I realise they’re likely Ns and I recognise that in many situations (not all) I’m very attention seeking and they must feel I am a threat to their control. I do my best to tone myself down a little and appease to them. But some I simply cannot bring myself to do this with and it always ends up in a ‘bitch-off’ lol.
Mmm. Something is strange though. How did they manage to film so much of him? Is he a paid actor in real life? HG! I can’t live with this suspense!!!
A lot of the footage was taken from what he put on his Instagram page and what the victims also filmed.
Pages. Now that he is banned from Tinder he has a couple with variations of his last name. It is ridiculous. I love following him though. He has a picture sitting on the plane with his legs crossed where you can see the red sole of his boots. Hehe hehehe.
They may be fake accounts. You don’t know what is fake and who is fake anymore haha.
Oh he is a narcissist. Only a narcissist would flip the story and, instead of being offended that they made a documentary on Netflix about his fraudulent ways, try to capitalize on the fame he obtained out of it! Love me, hate me, but never ignore me, right? He hashtags Netflix on his IG profile now. Only a narc!
*some poor soul confesses that she adores him. I insist I worry about the future of humanity.
I don’t follow the story, I don’t have Netflix, and I hardly watch TV overall.
But from your statements, this man’s profile matches dozens of such scammers.
In my country, the most famous for several decades is: Jerzy Kalibabka – pseudonym “Tulip”. A film entitled “Tulip” was also made. A fascinating biography. Hundreds of deceived women. His favorite creation (he had many) was the jeweler 🙂 Hated and Loved (even after being fully exposed).
Currently married (long internship), father of the family, grandfather, exemplary citizen 🙂 Last year I read my daughter’s statements – he defends his father like a lioness 🙂
Good grief, I watched this tonight after the premier. It struck me, the food, the travel, the opulence, so reminiscent of HG’s Instagram, it was rather remarkable.
These women seemed to stand no chance.
I can’t wait for the breakdown on this guy.
I always wonder how much do these people eat? Do narcs have a bigger appetite (not for destruction, in a literal sense)?
Hahaha, I’ve wondered that to!! In fact, when I first looked at HG’s IG, I wondered if HG fattens them up before roasting them!! 😂
Omg that’s fucking hilarious AV! Well, he said he likes us toasted, roasted, baked and I don’t know how else. Hahaha!
Haha, pickled, skin-on, marinated, poached, I think at one point he indicated any way was delicious!
I really hope Cecilie is not the Shield Maiden because Cecilie is really stupid.
Hahahahaha, I don’t think that’s possible! But a hilarious thought nonetheless!
I find it staggering that so many people still get ensnared to part with their money, property with people that they have never met in person. There are thousands of stories like this, in the news, magazines, internet, social media. Around 20 years ago or so, there was one time I gave an online chat room a try and I did not particularly enjoy it because it is not the same as meeting new people in a natural environment. I started to get strange ‘vibes’, possibly my in-built ‘alarm system’.
Certainly from reading about HG’s articles on the dangers of online dating sites, especially when I read about ‘The Online Somatic Narcissist’. I recognised such ‘behaviours’ and someone I knew (more of an ‘associate’ rather than a friend – known since school), it was bizarre how eerily similar the actions were. The really interesting thing was, after the fact I had shared on FB (non-public post) about narcissism, I get a personal message and we communicated. So many ‘red flags’ in that one conversation. It was quite easy to make the ‘comparisons’ in that conversation to HG’s article.
I’ll be very eager to follow your breakdown, because I cannot even imagine giving someone mass amounts of cash. This will be a great lesson!
The ‘love devotee’ is back on Tinder (yikes!)
He is a narcissist and a psychopath. No conscience, no sense of guilt or remorse, HUGE sense of entitlement, grandiose in all his thoughts, incredible ability to manipulate … truly a menace to society. A bad man doing bad things.
Looking forward to the breakdown.
I sent her a link to some HG videos including the one on online dating. But I doubt she will accept any advice on that. Though I am a LD too, I would have acted like the third one without a doubt. Fuck it, I want my money back!
SP, thumbs up for sending her the links.
I think she’s too far gone. She wants to live the fairy tale and even after being stung so badly just can’t let it go. Prime candidate for another ensnarement.
What is LD? My eyes and my brain are getting bleary 😛
Haha, fuck it. I want your money back, too!
Love devotee! Sorry lickemtomorrow. But yes, in her case LD could be read as Love Desperate.
SP, I should have known! Brain was definitely bleary. I think Love Desperate could be coined just as easily for Love Devotee <3 I'm also an LD, but thankfully weaponized now!
❤️!!!!!!
Soooo looking forward to this!