Knowing the Narcissist : Child Defender




You now have access to material to defend your child or children against the narcissist.

Using years of experience and insight combined with applied and effective advice given to those in consultation, HG Tudor has created the Child Defender Assistance Package. This unrivalled material is filled with information, insight, advice, analysis and practical steps to aid you in defending your child when you have been ensnared by the narcissist.

Whether you remain in the ensnarement, whether you have escaped or been disengaged from, whether there is an ongoing court battle, child arrangements or you want to know what to do if the narcissist returns, this is the most comprehensive assistance you can obtain.

Worth many times its cost, it will save you thousands in fees, hours of wasted time and energy and most importantly of all, it will give you the key to defend your child.

Delivered in SIX extensive audio files, each file covers the following:-

1. Introduction and Aims

2. What is the role of the child in the narcissistic dynamic?

3. How to protect your child from the narcissist (direct consequences and collateral consequences)

4. Do I tell my child that their parent is a narcissist?

5. How do I get the narcissist to leave my child and me alone.

6. Will my child become a narcissist too and what can I do to stop that?

The most effective tool available to defend your child from the narcissist, from the one who knows narcissists and their victims inside out.


Aid others who wish to defend their children

54 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : Child Defender

  1. annaamel says:

    My mum stayed in a relationship with a man who I don’t think ever had one week where he was faithful to her. She told me she stayed for me, so I could have a two parent home. But I wish she’d left him. I grew up with a shell of a woman as a mother, stoic but emotionally numb and it had a huge effect on me. I still find it hard to see her as a role model because she tolerated that relationship. My dad would have been there for me even if I didn’t live with him full time and my mum would’ve been able to find herself and value herself again.

    I believe everyone on this forum has a responsibility to encourage those in relationships with narcissists to leave those relationships and the only caveat would be to do so in a way that didn’t increase their or their children’s chances of being physically harmed. There is a lot of sound advice in the ‘escape’ resources provided and the site’s owner recommends this course in every case: once you know, you go, you get out and stay out. If someone is not comfortable giving that advice, they can refrain from doing so.

  2. Leigh says:

    There’s been a huge misunderstanding. I’m actively planning my escape. I don’t feel sorry for my husband. I could give a rat’s ass about him.

    On Friday, my narc daughter told me that she stopped taking birth control. I know that’s not about me. That’s about her wanting to bind her IPPS to her. The problem is her IPPS is a narc also. So there’s a possibility her getting pregnant may push him away. Hearing that scared the shit out of me because I do want out. The selfish part of me screamed in my head, “NO!!!”. But what really scares me is if she does get pregnant, I know what I’ll end up doing.

    When I saw Rebecca’s comment, I understood her plight and empathized with her. I know that I would be much more effective as an intervener outside of that toxic home. The last sentence in my comment was I hope I’m out of the house before that happens.

    Then NA said to me that I’m not being honest with myself. For the very first time, in over 50 years, I understand my actions and what’s driving them and I’m being completely honest with myself. I responded to her comment because I wasn’t going to let anyone take that from me, not even an empath who meant well. If you look at my original response to NA, I said “I’m being very honest with myself.”

    Do I feel guilty about not being a sufficient intervener with my narc daughter? Yes. Do I hate giving up half my money? Yes. Am I going to leave anyway? Yes!

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi Leigh, I support your efforts and hope it all goes as planned. Sorry to hear about your daughter and the birth control and your worries around that. Why would a child keep you there once you’re financially ready to go? You’d still know that you could do better to intervene if you were away from the narcs. Though the child being in that home would pull on your heartstrings probably. But, maybe your daughter would move if she became pregnant also, there are probably many different ways things can go. You are on a good path, I think keep your focus. Once you have the money you need and things arranged, you hold the cards for yourself.

      1. Leigh says:

        Hi AV,
        Thank you for your support. The thought of it scared the heck out of me and sent my ET through the roof. Yes, there could be any number of outcomes. But my first thought was a worst case scenario. If it happens while I’m still in that toxic environment, I know myself well enough to know that my savior will be triggered and I’ll want to protect.

        However, I realized that I was putting the cart before the horse. It was a moment of panic. I’m back on track now though.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi Leigh, you’re welcome. I am sometimes glad ET is so malleable, when it gets elevated, and largely under our control if we go to the evidence. Any grandchildren you have will be lucky to have you!

          1. Leigh says:

            Aww, thank you, AV. 💓

  3. Rebecca says:


    Will this help me ,with my stepdaughter and her child??,

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Rebecca says:

        I defended my stepdaughter in her custody hearing for her daughter. I was a character witness and I told, what I witnessed happen to cause the fight, the fight itself and what happened after the fight. I’ve known her since she was 5 1/2 yrs old. I told the truth of what I saw, but back then, my eyes didn’t see the whole truth of what was happening. I defended her and offended her ex boyfriend. I can’t undo my mistake and now I see. I’m grateful she doesn’t have custodial custody, but she still sees her from Wednesday night until Sunday night. We try to take the little one on the weekends and she’s so excited and happy to get away from her mother and current boyfriend. She tells me, she doesn’t like her mother and she’s only 4. It concerns me, that she feels that way about her mother. I check her for bruises and if I see one, I ask her what happened here? She tells me, she fell down. I look her in the eyes and go with my gut feelings. She’s not being physically abused. I worry about emotional or mental abuse. I want to protect her HG and I don’t want her to become a narcissist, like her mother.
        She starts Pre K this fall, so the custody agreement is going to have to change again. I’m hoping I can correct my mistake I made.

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi Rebecca, Can I ask you a rhetorical question? Are you planning on staying with MLSomstic? I ask because the only way to have a significant impact is to stay. If you leave, it’s very unlikely you’ll get to see her very often.

          I know how compelled you are to save that little girl. I just found out my narc daughter has stopped taking birth control. She still lives in my home. If something were to happen, I would be forced to stay. I couldn’t protect my daughter so I’d want to do everything in my power to protect her children. My hope is I get out before it happens.

          I know this has to be a tough decision for you. I think I would do similar if I were in your shoes.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            I’m going to be completely honest and tell you that this conversation reads to me as two addicts trying to convince each other and themselves that they are being altruistic in their intention rather than accept that it is emotional thinking keeping you in addiction and abuse. It’s your choice to stay and you don’t need to justify it to anyone, but you should at least be honest with yourself. You can have significant impact outside of the dynamic. These are excuses offered up by your addiction.

          2. Leigh says:

            NA, I appreciate what you’re saying here. I know it seems to you and probably many others, that I’m not thinking with clarity.

            I’m very honest with myself. I know these are all excuses but to me they are valid excuses.

            I struggle with giving up half of my assets. Maybe that seems like emotional thinking but how is it logical to give up half of my assets. My assets are substantial and giving up half is not something I look forward to.

            I also feel tremendous guilt for what happened to my narc daughter. My actions or inactions, helped to create a narcissist.

            I also don’t want to leave my empath daughter in a house with two narcissists, her father and her sister. Haven’t I done enough damage to one daughter? Now I’m going to leave my other daughter exposed.

            What you’re asking me to do is put my daughter in the line of fire and give up half my assets, just so that I can obtain freedom from the narcissist. I wonder how many other empathic mothers could put their children in the line of fire, just to save themselves.

            Could that be my addiction? Maybe.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            1. Labelling them valid excuses is emotional thinking.
            2. Giving up half your assets is logical to achieve freedom. Stay stuck and abused but with all your assets, you can enjoy them whilst being abused.
            3. Guilt is a feeling, but is it logical to feel guilty? Usually it is not.
            4. Why would your daughter be left in a house with two narcissists? Is it really the case that has to happen.

          4. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor,
            1. Labelling them valid excuses is emotional thinking.

            Yes, I know its emotional thinking.

            2. Giving up half your assets is logical to achieve freedom. Stay stuck and abused but with all your assets, you can enjoy them whilst being abused.

            I don’t agree its logical. With all due respect, you went into therapy so you wouldn’t lose your inheritance. Why is it illogical for me to want to hold onto my assets?

            3. Guilt is a feeling, but is it logical to feel guilty? Usually it is not.

            I know its not logical to feel guilty but I do. And even if I was away from the narcissist, I would still feel guilty about my narc daughter.

            4. Why would your daughter be left in a house with two narcissists? Is it really the case that has to happen.

            My empathic daughter could leave, she’s an adult. I don’t want her to suffer the same fate as me though, so I want to make sure she’s safe before I leave.

            With all of that said, I know I have to leave and I am working on it.

            My original comment was to empathize with Rebecca. I just wanted her to know that I understood her need to protect her step granddaughter.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            1. Noted.
            2. I was not being abused you are, there is a fundamental difference.
            3. Then you should apply logic to remove that ill-placed guilt.
            4. Why can’t she come with you?

          6. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor, thank you for your kind and polite response. You’ve always treated me with decency.

            As for why my daughter can’t come with me. She absolutely can and it’s definitely a consideration.

            I also know that giving up half now will also save me in the long run because I won’t have to spend my money on him in the future.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I recommend you focus on planning your escape and involve your daughter in those plans. It is evident that your daughter is of importance to you and since she can come with you, you have an added incentive to escape – doing it for both you and her. There is nothing to be gained by staying where you are and repeatedly bemoaning the situation.

          8. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor, I don’t feel like I repeatedly bemoan my situation but maybe to others it comes off that way. Noted.

            The ironic thing is I am planning my escape. I’ve been saving money for over a year. The plan is to also quit my job so he can’t find me at my job either.

            I really was just trying to show Rebecca empathy.

          9. WiserNow says:


            Another factor I find interesting is that all the lovely, friendly, supportive, highly empathic people here, who are often very ready to give their opinions or explain their experiences in agreeable conversations, complete with kisses when signing off, will probably steer clear of this particular conversation.

            If you listen carefully, the normally busy, engaged keyboards will mysteriously fall silent. There will be crickets and tumbleweed instead.

            Funny that. Is it a case of ‘better stay on the ‘good’ side of a narcissistic psychopath’?

          10. Leigh says:

            I think maybe people just don’t want to get involved so they stay out of the fray.

          11. WiserNow says:

            I think so too Leigh.

            It’s easier though, to be a ‘fair-weather friend.’ Sometimes the fray is where you can see who is actually genuine. And to me, it’s much appreciated 🙂
            Besides, the fray can be more challenging and exciting, and also the catalyst for change.

          12. Leigh says:

            Wise words, Wiser Now. The fray can be the catalyst for change. I agree with that 100%.

          13. WhoCares says:

            I do understand how compelling it can be to want to assist someone – given the knowledge we now have and especially when it involves individuals we consider more vulnerable than ourselves – plus, it certainly must feel extra urgent when an empath’s Savior buttons are being pressed…I have been there and I personally still struggle with this at times because of wanting to make up for past mistakes. (And I have zero Savior in me.)

            However, I think it’s always important to stop and consider if one is offering a life ring from one’s own slowly sinking ship.

          14. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I agree with what you say here. We have to save ourselves in order to to effectively save another. In my attempt to empathize with Rebecca, it seems I’ve come off as not being honest with myself. I can assure everyone, I’m being very honest with myself. I do realize however that in my attempt to empathize, I was actually enabling Rebecca to stay. I should’ve given my comment more thought before I posted it.

          15. NarcAngel says:


            I’m not asking you to do anything. I stated that it is your choice to stay and that you don’t need to justify it to anyone. I commented because although I recognized your concern for Rebecca, it felt (to me as an observer) that your ET was grasping onto that of another – one whose own ET might be swayed to use the concern or understanding you intended, as a means to gain a foothold in her situation and potentially lead to an unfavourable outcome. It can be tricky here. We want to help and there are so many sides to things. All we can do is offer up what we see individually (as we both have) and leave it up to the reader to decide what information they take away. I hope you understand Leigh, that my comment was not meant to negate yours, but rather to add a different perspective on what may, or may not be, transpiring with regard to ET.


          16. Leigh says:

            Thank you for your response.

            I know you’re right. I’m an addict and I’m enabling another addict to continue using. I’d like to explain what happened yesterday.

            I’ve been gaslit since birth. Until I came here, I had no clarity. I was Prince Harry and my husband was Meaghan Markle and I made excuses for every one of his behaviors. Since coming here, I finally have clarity. I finally have awareness. Even when the narcs try to gaslight me now, they can’t because of what I’ve learned from Mr. Tudor.

            When you said I wasn’t being honest with myself, it triggered me. For the first time in my life I see things clearly and I didn’t want to let you take that away from me. I know that wasn’t your intention. But your comment triggered a self defense response in me. Sometimes the PTSD comes out in ways that I don’t even realize. It was a gross overreaction on my part and I apologize.

            I know we all have different ways of handling things and I appreciate your outlook and perspective. Thank you for your understanding. I appreciate it.

          17. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I have just one point to make here and it’s about the guilt you feel.

            “My actions or inactions helped to create a narcissist.”

            The genetic predisposition and the LOCE created by your narcissist husband created a narcissist, not you.

            I think you question why you couldn’t be the intervener that changed the result, but you aren’t thinking about your own situation at that time. Working, kids, house to look after, and a Victim narc doing nothing to help. You were coping, that’s all you could have been doing and you had no idea about narcissism and how it functions.

            Interveners can help when they have knowledge about what is happening, but before that knowledge, it’s down largely to chance. Your thinking here is a bit like having COVID, not knowing you have it, then blaming yourself for passing it on to someone else before we even knew anything about COVID. There were things you could have done, “ if I had only stood further away, or worn a mask” but only if you knew what COVID was and how it was spread.

            I think you are grieving the result of your daughter’s NDC and understandably so. You appear to have dealt well with the outcome but given the type of person you are, I think you are quietly grieving. I think you are replaying every time you corrected or disciplined your daughter wishing you hadn’t, taking the blame for her narcissism yourself.

            If you need to blame someone, blame the narcissist who created the LOCE. He did that, not you.


          18. Leigh says:

            TS, your words are like warmth and they always make me feel better.

            You’d think I’d be over it by now. I got the results back over 18 months ago. Yet I still struggle to move past it.

            Thank you for your understanding, TS.

          19. Rebecca says:


            No, I don’t plan on staying with MLSOMATIC, HG already knows the plan I have in place. It’ll be a tough move, but one I plan on sticking to. I hope my step granddaughter doesn’t get hurt, it’s what I worry about. I’m hoping I can fix my mistake before I leave, that way some preventive measure is in place. I hope you’re able to get away. We can support each other through this change.

            Thanks HG and NarcAngel for the advice and guidance, xx

          20. Rebecca says:


            You’re no more responsible for your daughter being a narcissist, than I was for my brother trying to rape me. We’re not the bad ones, the guilty ones, we are not to blame. HG told me that and I spent my life taking my brother’s blame for what he tried to do…the blame rest of them, not us. Just like I have to come to terms with the FACT that I might not be able to prevent my step granddaughter from being hurt. I can only do what I have the power to do. I cant blame myself for that. I love her and I’ll do what I can for her. The main priority has to be us, I know we aren’t use to that,but for once, we have to come first. It’s difficult, sorta like walking on recently healed broken legs, but it’s doable. We just have to be brave and not run from the unknown. I’ve noticed I’ve been afraid of thing and I did it anyway…and what I discovered was, it wasn’t that bad at the end and usually was freeing , if not a little fun….and I got stronger from it. What I’ve been trying to focus on, is the end result, not the trip up the mountain, but the drink and the reward at the end of the climb. Being positive helps too. Xx

          21. Leigh says:

            Thank you Rebecca. I appreciate that.

            I know I need to come first and I’m actively working on a plan to leave. I don’t feel bad for him. He’s going to get exactly what he deserves. I don’t question whether I’m dong the right thing I know I’m doing the right thing. I know what I have to do. I just need time to implement it.

            I know I have to stop blaming myself for my daughter. Its getting old. I’m getting there. I promise.

          22. Joa says:

            Leigh, Wiser, I think most people don’t talk for the same reason I do:

            Decision about Leigh’s life is Leigh’s and the decision about Rebecca’s life is Rebecca’s.

            No matter what you decide and how your fate will turn out – with or without Narcissus – it’s nice if you share your anxiety, regret, pain, joy – as long as there is such a possibility here on the blog and until HG disappears, absorbing everything 🙂

            The support of women by women is a HUGE POWER. I’ve been using this “method” for years and recommend it. An honest and REAL conversation between a woman and a woman is a panacea for many life ailments – even life with Narc. 🙂

            PS I liked, when HG wrote about your empathetic daughter, Leigh, that you could move with her. However, I find the argument against the lack of harassment to be very misguided. And I also – I would first take care of finances and a stable situation, planning anything new in life.

            Each of your decisions, girls, will be completely understandable to me. Kisses and hugs 🙂

          23. Leigh says:


            I liked when Mr. Tudor wrote about my empathic daughter as well. He was so kind. It threw me off for a minute because his cognitive empathy was nicer than some people’s natural empathy.

            I agree that the support of women is a huge power. That’s what I was trying to do for Rebecca. I have an empathic friend who is a huge help to me. I would be lost without her. She helps to keep me focused and she does it in a very empathic way. I’m beyond grateful to her.

            My friend is very similar to you. Its my decision but she’s there if I need her.

            Thank you Joa.

          24. WiserNow says:

            So which attitude are you saying is your ‘default’ position, Joa?

            Not saying anything because someone’s life decisions are their own to make so you stay quiet;

            or… having an honest and real conversation because you think the support of women is a huge power and a panacea for many life ailments?

          25. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            Awww, no, I wouldn’t expect you to be over it by now. I don’t think there’s a time on it, you’ll deal with it in your own way.

            I know guilt. If hope is a false mistress then guilt is her annoying friend. Don’t get stuck with the annoying friend. Pain in the ass!

            Sending hugs xx

          26. Leigh says:

            “Don’t get stuck with the annoying friend. Pain in the ass!”

            That’s fantastic! Thank you. I needed a good laugh!

          27. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            Just a thought. You mention leaving your job so that the narc can’t find you at work. Would a victim narc pursue you in that way? Honest question, I don’t know much about that school of narc other than they are low energy with a very limited fuel matrix.

            It’s a lot, to move, divorce, give up a stable job. If you don’t have to give up the stable job immediately, this would give you more security and might facilitate a far faster exit.

            When my friend escaped, that was my greatest concern for him in the early days, that his narc would show up at his workplace. There’s no security, it would be easy for her to walk in and cause a scene. I went through what he should do if it happened, and it did bother me for him.

            She’s an MMRB and never tried it. He left, he blocked her from everything, deleted her phone number. That was enough to deter her. It’s strange, we expect a harder hoover, but if you escape in the right way, close down phone, text and social media, you become a very unattractive hoover prospect for some schools of narc. The prospect of a direct hoover in person just falls off the table.

            I think I’d keep the job and risk the narc showing up once or twice. Bollocks to him. He might never show up and if he does he’ll soon realise that a direct hoover at your workplace just gets him wounded.

            Might be worth discussing with HG. It’s possible you a simpler move than you think 🙂 xx

          28. Leigh says:

            Hi TS,
            Its interesting because my gut actually tells me he probably won’t show up. But, I don’t want to take the chance either. I only work 3 miles away and he can technically walk to my job.

            I’m going to go backwards for a minute. Do you remember workplace narc? He was laid off about two years ago. Well, about a month ago, he called my office. Then, he tied a bag to my car door handle with a present and note in it. That sealed the deal for me. Maybe my victim narc husband won’t show up but fuckface workplace narc will.

            My daughter is working in the city now so I’ll look for a place closer to the city. Workplace narc won’t be able to find me and even if my husband knows where I am, he won’t make the drive. He’s lazy and doesn’t have a car.

            I just want a clean slate once and for all.

          29. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Wiser Now,
            I resemble your remark. Heheh
            I totally understand Leigh’s situation as I’ve been there! There are two sides, one where you plan and orchestrate your escape and one where you need to protect yourself at all costs. It’s bloody hard to survive these days without financial backing and assistance, however, your life could well be in danger the longer your stay. Timing is everything when you’re dealing with a very unstable erratic person but get out you must.
            As parents, we want to protect our children, however, as adults they are in control of their own lives and we cannot TELL them what to do but to help and support them when asked and be there when they need us.
            I did relay a story a while back whereby a girlfriend of mum’s couldn’t leave her cray cray husband because she’d just installed new carpets and decorated her house.
            He ended up killing her!
            I’m positive if mum didn’t leave, I wouldn’t be here telling this story.
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          30. Leigh says:

            Dearest Bubbles,
            I don’t need to protect myself at all costs. My husband is a victim narc and he’s much more draining than abusive. We’ve been together nearly 40 years. Have I seen his fury? Yes. Do I fear for my life? No. Most of the time his fury is verbal or he sulks. There were a couple of times it was physical but its few and far between. My safety isn’t a concern. The problem is, I don’t have a real partner in life. I have to take on the brunt of the responsibilities. I no longer wish to do that, so that’s why I’m planning my escape.

            Thank you for your concern though, Bubbles. I appreciate it.

          31. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I forgot about workplace narc. Did he really? That’s interesting. Had you seen him in the car when driving? Anything like that? My friend got a hoover by proxy because they passed each other when driving. So he popped up on her radar. She still didn’t risk a direct hoover though so that’s interesting that workplace narc was a bit more direct.

            Love of My Life Guy kept sending flowers for ages after I ended it. I didn’t realise it was a benign hoover at the time. The old lady in the ground floor apartment had a nice time of it though, she collected them herself towards the end to save me a job!! He never showed up himself though, just the flowers.

            Glad my other comment gave you a giggle 🙂 xx

          32. Leigh says:

            Workplace narc is insane, lol. I wouldn’t be surprised if he saw me. He used to sit and lurk at me from his car all the time. Another thing he would do is stand in the doorway of my office, just watching me. He would get off on my reaction when I realized he was standing there. Weirdo. But this time I think it was because when he had called my office, he heard my voice and that might have triggered it. I haven’t heard from him since. Thank goodness! He likes to pop up every once in awhile to get his jolly’s off and then he disappears again. He did a hit and run in September too. That time, he reached out on Facebook messenger.

            I haven’t done the NDC on workplace narc because he’s the least of my problems and really not worth it. He’s toxic and I don’t want him in my life. But I think he’s MMRB also. So tell your friend just to be diligent and aware. They pop up out of nowhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if she wasn’t somewhere lurking after she saw him in the car.

            Yes, I’m looking forward to a change of scene and some hustle & bustle will be fun. I love the city. Its so diverse. I’m definitely looking forward to it.

          33. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Forgot to add, a change of scene and some hustle and bustle would be fun for you both. Places to go, new people to meet 😉 xx

          34. Joa says:

            Wiser, both are closely related.

            I rarely tell anyone, what to do. I can listen to someone and say, what I would do in this situation. Just enough.

            When I have a problem, I like to talk. Get to know other perspectives, new solutions (even when internally I am already decided what I will do). Sometimes I like something and I implement it in my own life or modify it in my own way.

            But don’t you dare tell me what to do. Don’t you dare force promises on me or try to embarrass me.

            Whatever I do, I will manage my own life. And I will accept the laurels and bear the consequences – with dignity.

            I will also add, that Leigh’s situation has been discussed in other, earlier threads. I think Leigh is well armed with knowledge (sorry Leigh, I’m referring to you in the third person here). Now the ball is in her hand and only she can decide what to do with it.

            After all, this is HER life.

          35. Leigh says:

            Hi Joa,
            I just wanted you to know that I agree that both are closely related. You can discuss your issues with someone but ultimately it’s the individual’s decision.

          36. WiserNow says:

            Thanks for explaining your thought process in more detail, Joa.

            Like you, I rarely tell anyone what to do either. The conversation, viewpoints and sharing of knowledge is what matters more to me.

            In this conversation, it is about Leigh and I don’t wish to make Leigh uncomfortable by continuing the discussion as though it is specifically about her situation. My points now in this comment to you are *general* points and could apply to anyone. They are not about Leigh in particular.

            Joa, this part of your comment is forceful:
            “But don’t you dare tell me what to do. Don’t you dare force promises on me or try to embarrass me” … and this: “Whatever I do, I will manage my own life.”

            In this conversation, who in your opinion was being prescriptive and telling Leigh what to do or forcing promises on her or telling her how to manage her own life?

            The reasons for doing so were well-meaning and constructive, however, the insinuation was that Leigh was not capable of managing her own life, wasn’t being honest, or needed to be pushed and coerced.

            Like you Joa, I like to talk too and listen to different views and ideas and keep learning – even though I may have decided internally already or think I know what my ultimate decision will be.

            I acknowledge that freedom from the narcissist is important, whether the situation is one where your life or wellbeing is in immediate and severe danger, or a situation where you are being manipulated in a subtle way over a long period. Whatever the situation, freedom from abuse is the goal – for anyone involved with a narcissist.

            There are other important and valid considerations too. I posted another comment here about other valid considerations that hasn’t appeared. (In fact, quite a few of my comments on the blog have not gone through (both recent and old ones), so what you see on the blog regarding my comments is incomplete.)

            It takes time to align all the necessary considerations in order to reach the ultimate goal of ‘freedom from the narcissist’. These considerations aren’t necessarily because of the ‘addiction’ or because of not wanting to change the situation or because of not being honest with yourself.

            This thread having more voices and input – and it could be about anyone, not Leigh in particular – allows for more views and more perspectives to be expressed, taking the heat off (so to speak) the main person involved. Leigh (or anyone else) shouldn’t have to feel she is pushed into a corner with an ultimatum. It’s not a black and white situation and there are no so-called ‘winners’ or ‘losers’. The more voices there are, the more the knowledge is shared and understood and no-one then has to justify themselves or be forced to ‘play nice’ in order not to ruffle any feathers. I think *this* is what enables ‘dignity’, that is, the ability to explain and comment without becoming defensive and/or evasive.

            Finally, I think I understand the views in your comment. You enjoy and appreciate the conversation and the talk to understand and learn, however, you are still your own person with your own autonomy and will manage your own life.

          37. HG Tudor says:

            When are you being canonised?

          38. WiserNow says:

            That is not something I would welcome or want, HG.

            For one thing, I’m not religious, and even if I was, it’s far too much responsibility and pressure.

            Also, I can be as hypocritical, defensive and evasive as anyone else.

          39. Leigh says:

            Thank you for clarifying WN. I get what you were trying to say now.

          40. Joa says:

            Wiser, I’ll add one more thing, because just today my best friend was laughing at me, that I come to her with some dilemma of mine, I describe it to her and I make my own decision at the end 🙂 She told me today with a laugh, that she is quite often just an extra, ha ha 🙂

            Indeed, sometimes I just need someone’s eyes or ears to solve my problem. Sometimes all it takes is talking to yourself or writing in a drawer 🙂

            That’s why I’m a supporter of everyone telling as much about themselves as possible. And the silence of the other side is sometimes the best help, when you analyze every shade of your problem.

            Quite often “my” Narcissists at work, use silence. Recently one of them said: “I like it when you come to me with a question and answer it yourself” 🙂 Indeed. Sometimes I just go to confirm my belief, sometimes I intentionally COMMUNICATE something through the question, and sometimes I am forced to answer myself because I see that the other party does not know the answer (and I don’t want to expose it so glaringly).

          41. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            Many thanks for explaining your situation lovely. I’ve found over my lifetime people are very unpredictable. Once, unexpectedly, mum slapped me across the face when I announced I was getting engaged, came right out of left field, I thought she’d be happy and glad to get rid of me …..but no…. whack!
            I obviously threatened her control over me …boo hoo!

            Question, why would you lose your share of the assets, that’s why we have divorce court proceedings? Usually it’s split down the middle.

            Sorry Leigh, I don’t completely understand your comment
            “The problem is, I don’t have a real partner in life, I have to take on the brunt of the responsibilities. I no longer wish to do that, so that’s why I’m planning my escape”. Are you able to further clarify on what you mean please Leigh? Ta ☺️
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          42. Leigh says:

            Dearest Bubbles,
            I was trying to say that the narcissistic dynamic with my husband isn’t physically abusive. Instead, I have a spouse who has never been a real partner & I’m tired of taking care of him.

            As for the assets, yes it will be a split down the middle. Right now, I have full access to all of my assets. But when we divorce, he gets half. Meanwhile, most of the money is mine. I’m going to say something that isn’t empathetic. If he shuffles off, I keep it all. With that said, I’m not waiting for that and I’m actively planning my escape.

          43. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            Thank you for your explanation lovely. I understand where you’re coming from and it’s certainly not a comfortable position for you to be in. Change is very unsettling for anyone. You intentions are being planned carefully and with that I’m sure you will execute them when you feel the time is right. Sadly, as a result of moving forward sacrifices generally go with the territory. Congratulations on your inner strength Leigh, taking that first step is always the hardest.
            My very best to you Leigh 💕
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          44. Leigh says:

            Thank you Bubbles.

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