Knowing the Narcissist : Never Mirror the Narcissist
It is often stated that you should mirror the narcissist.
That is wrong. Such an act is contrary to your interests.
Those who make such a suggestion are wrong and evidencing their lack of understanding about our kind.
Why should you never mirror us? Let’s examine some examples.
Take for example word salad. If we engage in a word salad whereby you cannot follow the logic of what we are saying, we are doing this because it enables us to draw fuel from your frustrated, hurt and annoyed responses. You are a truth seeker and therefore, not knowing what we are, you continue to try to break through this word salad and get us to make sense, get us to see sense and toss the salad aside. We do not. We continue with it as it is gaining fuel for us and ensuring that we are rejecting the relevant (perceived) attack against us so that our superiority is maintained. The chief components of our manipulations are either
- Gain Pure Fuel – this is where there is no challenge or wounding;
- Gain fuel and assert our superiority – this in instances where you are providing us with challenge fuel. We are not wounded BUT you are challenging our superiority in some way and therefore we must respond in a way which makes you back down and enables us to assert our superiority once again;
- Gain fuel because you have wounded us, so this fuel heals the wound.
Accordingly, in a particular interaction with you we have utilised the manipulation that is a word salad. You decide to mirror us and respond with a word salad of your own. Let us assume that you manage to do this without providing us any fuel with it – difficult, but you may be able to achieve it. These are the consequences.
- You will wound us. This is because you are not providing us with any fuel and you are noticeably mirroring us which we will perceive as you mocking us. This will wound us. You may think ‘that’s good, so why not do it?’ – the following points explain why you ought not to.
- This will cause an ignition of fury, most likely with the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist and possibly with the Greater also. We may well have been using the word salad manipulation in the context of a Challenge Fuel situation. There was no ignition of fury then. There is now.
- The ignition of fury will result in a different manipulation being used against you. You have nullified the word salad but all we do is shift to a different manipulation.
- The ignition of fury will mean that this alternative manipulation will be an escalation. Given the circumstances this means that you are increasing your risk of violence being used against your person or your property. All schools of narcissist may well apply that against you in that moment. The Greater may control the fury so that you are punished at a later juncture, when you are least expecting this to happen and this will occur with malice. You have just increased the pain that will follow.
- You have signalled to the narcissist that you are trying to manipulate the narcissist. Predictably enough, this will not sit well with us. This will mean that we will now increase our efforts to exert control over you. Since you are in devaluation already, this devaluation will continue and will be increased to ensure that you are ‘brought to heel’.
- Your use of word salad will be used against you – we will bring it up against you in future instances to demonstrate that you do not know what you are talking about, we will tell other people about this behaviour and smear you in that regard, we may well use it as evidence with regard to some form of manipulation against you.
- The Greater Narcissist will realise that you are ‘on to us’ and therefore a careful mental note will be made about that fact. This means that alternative methods of manipulation will be used against you and you will be punished for your behaviour. You have also tipped us off.
- You will not be in a position to keep the mirroring up for long without providing us with fuel. Although you have wounded us, when you start providing us with fuel again, this will address the wound that you have created, thus the mirroring has proven pointless and you have also risked the points raised above. It is very hard for a person to stop themselves from giving us fuel when there is a face to face interaction. You have to control what you say, how you say it, your body language, the look in your eyes and your facial expressions. That is difficult and often you do certain things unconsciously that will provide us with fuel. Accordingly, you cannot go for long in a face to face situation without providing us with fuel.
- You are hampered by the fact that you are honest, decent and usually consistent in your behaviours. Compare this with our kind where we operate with no sense of remorse, no guilt and no conscience. Guilt will start to creep in to what you are doing, pity, disgust with yourself for dropping to our level and so forth and this will have an adverse impact on you and your ability to mirror us.
What about other instances of mirroring us?
If we are shouting at you and you do the same back to us, all you are doing is provide us with fuel and that suits us perfectly well. Further, we can use your fierce temper against you, for instance by suddenly switching so that we wish to shield the children from mummy’s nasty temper. This shift in manipulation to triangulation is likely to catch you off-guard so that you feel guilty for doing this, feeling a need to explain the truth to the children about what has happened and then being pinned down by your honesty and decency because you do not want to drag the children into it. We do not care if we do, needs must.
If you try to triangulate us with someone else, we see through it. We will then use that as evidence of you being flirtatious, that you are having an affair, that you are selfish and self-absorbed. We will use this to smear you, attack you with an alternative manipulation – for instance the Lesser Narcissist may well beat you up on the basis of your wounding behaviour. The Mid Range Narcissist may also physically attack you or will go around delivering Pity Plays as he talks about the fact you behaved like a slut at the party.
If you try to engage in blame-shifting, this will not work because this just amounts to a further attack against us and therefore by repeatedly trying to place the blame at our door you will either be wounding us or issuing challenge fuel. We are configured never to accept blame (unless there is a clear benefit in doing so) and therefore our narcissism will just defend us against this in the usual fashion, accordingly the mirroring will be ineffective.
There is one slight exception to this rule against mirroring us and this relates to absent silent treatments. If you mirror our behaviour by ignoring us also because you want to cause us to get in contact with you and stop the silent treatment then all you need to do is ignore us also. You do of course run the risk of being subjected to an alternative manipulation, however the difference is that with the absent silent treatment we will not be with you when we are wounded by you failing to respond to the silent treatment. Accordingly, we are more likely to seek fuel from a different appliance and then contact you thereafter and our fury will no longer be ignited. Of course, you may want the relative calm of an absent silent treatment and if that is the case then you ought not to mirror and instead provide some messages which would provide fuel. This will maintain the absent silent treatment.
With each manipulation, if you try to mirror it, it will backfire against you because we will see through it (and dependent on the school of narcissist this will always happen, it just depends how quickly this will occur) and there will be the consequences that I have described above. This mirroring is not in your best interests. Even if you think you will achieve some kind of victory by wounding us, it will only result in a bad outcome for you thereafter because we are different creatures.
Instead of mirroring our manipulations you ought to focus on
- Establishing and maintaining no contact;
- Being able to recognise the various manipulations that we deploy;
- Your increased knowledge will reduce the impact of the manipulation on you;
- Following the methods set out in ‘Escape’ which will enable you to deal with these manipulations in a way which will benefit you and not cause you additional problems which occur if you mirror us.
Do not mirror us. Your mirror will shatter first.
25 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : Never Mirror the Narcissist”
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Wise words indeed.
My partner when they unleashed their fury during an argument and began their word salad was highly damaging, toxic to say the least.
We would argue late into the night. My partner would sleep like the dead afterwards. I would not, my heart pounding, the adrenaline racing through my body.
The fury was like a child having a temper tantrum. I would shout back, I would mirror. All wrong as HG stated above.
Then I started logical thinking. I became like Mr Spock. My partner reacted with cold fury. Stonewalling, silence. I reacted like I did not care.
The problem, after decades I became like a statue, inside and out. I notice people will scan my face for a hint of emotion. Especially narcissists. I see them scanning. I act now. I am not myself any more. The person I once was, is gone, dead. I have been reborn. I wear a mask. I am a husk.
My therapist told me this is from decades of narcissistic abuse. They either make you or break you. I am unbroken.
And to spook everyone it’s almost Halloween, this dream I had was elaborate of animals and people and places that when I awoke and drew them and wrote it down so many were from Celtic mythology that I couldn’t ignore it. I wrote names down from research from things I saw in my dreams. I thought well I must have read this somewhere, maybe I did. Then I thought this would make a great book, someone falls asleep and finds themselves in a myth. I still have the journal and publish d two books from dreams. This was to be my third but I don’t think I will. I am interested in writing another children’s book for fun BUT I share this to find out hers like me and to see if people have met them that stare in a dream versus in real life. I apologize to everyone as my dreams have since childhood been beyond weird and I know it. Sigh. Sorry if off topic folks! Two nights ago was another one. It never stops.
I wrote of staring into goat eyes. There is another I have probed. The near dead eyes of indifference. They aren’t dead but they seem to be. If you look closely the “ dead” stare is busy not dead but dead to you as it pushes on to the right ususally. These eyes aren’t goat eyes but it is flickering goat eyes as they look at you not with black holes with no souls or barely souls but glazed or blank as their minds have left the room but the soul is there just busy. The big difference is they don’t stare. They stare then there is a lingering “ dead” look but then you see life returning just not interested in you but in anything else. If you have never stared dead on to black eyes, it’s fascinating to me yet I walk away. Thank goodness I don’t do criminal work anymore. To think there are more and what lies within. No doubt the tiny few I encountered don’t represent all the others. I don’t really want to see or know. It’s not real. How could God allow this to be? Where does this come from,? What’s inside? What is that rustle that inside? Is it evil? I don’t know and don’t really want to know. I was curious only when my job made me meet them. I am not anymore. It’s not good. And if I never see goat eyes again, I am blessed. If you were to ask me I would say there is a part of a soul there not a whole one. And it feels like it’s writhing in hell. It’s like there is a body it occupies but I have never seen less than a shell of that body it occupies. Like a zombie with a host not comprised as a fully formed soul. Twisting and turning with a different sound as I explained above. I have had dreams where who I call the trickster appears he has the same feel. He has held me, shown me things to befriend me always wanting s me to cross over to this dark parking garage where a downtrodden homeless man lives outside. In my dreams I have tried to know him, thanked him for what he has showed me, let him comfort me once as he is a very very handsome goth but I have never followed him no matter how many times he invited me too. I could give lots of details as my dreams are movies and often and I imagine Jung would have a field day with me and explain archetypes. I only bring this up is that the goat eyes are in him in my dreams too and his appearance is very very rare but memorable. I will give one example when married to an ASPD the trickster appeared in my dreams had me come up a hill where he showed me his cock that was a snake and filled with worms. I didn’t know at the time my ASPD was having an affair but months later this dream made sense. Most would say my subconscious knew and showed itself BUT my dreams are so varied constant and complex… idk.
Mirroring in terms of intentional mirroring of the narcissist I don’t do. I dismiss instead. However I do mirror naturally and I do it a lot.
I do it most in conversation when I’m really concentrating, trying to work a problem out or when I’m just genuinely interested in what is being said. I’ve caught myself doing it more often of late. I’ll be in a long conversation where physically I’m free to move around and change position and occasionally I’ll wake up for a second and notice that I’m sitting or standing in exactly the same way as the person I’m talking to. I don’t mean to do it, but I do it without realising. Maybe the other person mirrored me, I somehow suspect it’s me doing the mirroring. Presumably a narc either wouldn’t notice, or, they would be accustomed to my behaviour during the golden period so wouldn’t see it as intentional / provocative mirroring later? Maybe it doesn’t happen later, I would likely be more defensive later, purposely withdrawing eye contact. I don’t hold eye contact when I’m irritated. That’s conscious on my part; drives my mum absolutely nuts, always did haha!
I’m also guilty of the stare. Same deal, it’s not conscious, I’m totally engaged, locked on to the person and I just lock eye contact. I genuinely don’t notice what’s going on around me, other people, background noise, the to and fro, all of it disappears, there’s just me and that one person I’m engaged with. They don’t look away either though and they can’t all be narcs!
So to all intents and purposes, for an outsider looking in I might well be perceived as a narc. I wonder whether narcissists would confuse me with a narc too and be put off? Maybe. Handy if that’s the case.
TS,
I know what you mean. I do the eye contact thing, when im talking to someone and Im deep in the conversation with them. I notice I read people that way, to make sure Im not doing anything wrong and reading them for cues on how theyre feeling about what I’m saying, what they’re saying etc. I notice i do this too and I’ve asked HG about it. I asked him, why do I maintain eye contact, while talking to someone and why do I read their vibes and body language? Empaths do it, like narcs do it,but empaths do it for different reasons. Narcs do it to get to the Prime Aims. Empaths do it, because we want to fix any problem we think we may have caused, so we read vibes, body language and facial cues, all while watching their eyes and being very observant and sensitive to any changes to the person we’re looking at. A narc gets observant to study the target for weaknesses and empathic traits, we do it to fix and develope real connections. I get the difference now and HG is so good at spotting the difference. It only, usually takes HG 10 mins to spot a narc in conversation. It was one of my questions i asked him on here. He said, 10 mins usually, during visual conversation. I’m in awe at that, such observation and high amount of experience, to know so quickly. Xx
Hey Rebecca,
Ten minutes is fast. In one to one conversation I’d have separated good guy from bad guy in that time, but that’s as far as I’d be.
I think it was Hunter and Hunted, an episode of Tea with Sam where HG describes evaluating a target. I listened to that and thought, “Yep that’s how it feels.” I also thought that in this instance we are absolutely on different teams. HG is going in one direction, evaluating to assess usefulness, so he’s on the offence. Im working in the opposite direction, I’m reading a person, not to assess usefulness but it’s defensive, essentially mine is risk assessment! HG can’t feel the person but is using high level visual and auditory cues, I’m using fewer cues ( at least consciously) but feeling my way into a person. Different, yet similar.
Meanwhile, the normals are absolutely oblivious. Haha!
I do wonder what others see when I’m locked on in that way, the mirroring in slow motion would be interesting. I only realise once I’ve mirrored, I don’t see myself start to mirror. If someone recorded it, then slowed the recording down you’d see it. Maybe it’s best I don’t see that actually, I’d have to sit on my hands from that point on!
I think I’m slightly different to you, I don’t try to accommodate people. I’m not going to insult them, but I’m not actively accommodating them either. I think I’m mostly just trying to understand them and I’m definitely risk assessing at the start.
Humans are interesting creatures.
Xx
Hi TS,
Yes, I would study and watch for cues to my mother’s moods, when i was a child, then was when i used to for defense and a look out for possible danger to myself. Ive done it as an adult, when I sense violence in an indivual around me. I use the reading of people to keep me safe, like you, with strangers, but i was referring to people I know on a daily basis, work people and friends. I watch their face for cues of disappointment, anger etc, so if theyre feeling a negative emotion, i can find out why and try to fix it. I use it both as a defense mechanism and a way to detect a problem someone has. ..I dont think Im explaning it well….I check my friends to see if theyre ok and feeling ok. I have a bit of Contagion , so maybe that has a part to play in my reading of people. I also do it to get a sense if someone is mad at me or not. If they are, i try to fix it. Xx
Hey Rebecca,
Yes you’re right I was thinking about the reading aspect from the viewpoint of first meet.
Once I know a person I’m doing it for very different reasons, the main one is probably just to understand. I’m using everything I’ve got to understand the person and how they feel. If I like a person and they choose to confide in me then I’m really working with all of my empathy. No wonder I find people tiring at times, nothing about my interactions is passive.
Yes I see what you mean. Reading people gives you that extra information which tells you how you are being perceived as well as how they are feeling. That gives you chance to amend. That reminds me of being in the US when I got the blank look which told me the person I was talking to had no clue what I just said haha!
Xx
Hi TS,
I knew you had misunderstood the situation of reading someone I already knew. Im glad we’re on the same page now. Xx I sometimes read friends, when I sense something is bugging them, but i first get a sense if theyre maybe upset with me first, checking for an angry expression thrown my way, quick, slight curl of the lips, some indicator of their feelings and their vibes. I first think, its me, I think I did something and i need to find out what I did wrong, so I can fix it, make it better and if its not me, than I want to help and sooth them. Investigate, fix, or sooth it. Thats what I learned to do since about my early childhood. The Contagion make up in me helps and Im glad i have it, kept me away from some really dangerous people.
I wanted to clarify with you and Leigh, that my story was shared yesterday. Im the third person in the 13 Video of Successful Escapes Series, though after listening to Number 14, I can understand how you, Contagious and Leigh thought EMPOWERED EMPATH’S story was mine.We do have very similiar stories and I was amazed how many of us, like me, grew up with narc parent or parents. I also noticed some feared being a narc, like I feares being a narc….sometimes the old fears haunt me , or get triggered and I worry about being a narc again….when that happens, I tell myself, HG says you’re an empath and so do other people on the blog and people in your real life too. Stop listening to the matrinarc’ opinion of you and listen to HG. She’s gone. Leave her buried. Good advice. Xx
Hey Rebecca,
My heart went out to you when I read your comment. You’re just such a lovely person. Do you have strong healer traits? You strike me as a healer fixer above all else. You confirmed towards the end of your comment what I picked up on towards the start, your mum told you over and over that you weren’t good enough, a bad person. We’re supposed to be able to trust our mum. Mum is always supposed to be on your side. Not the case for us.
I have thought the same. At the start I was relaxed, sure I wasn’t a narcissist. Then around the time I was thinking more about my relationship with my mum, the coldness I exhibit, I wondered if I wasn’t a narcissist at that point. I asked HG in consultation, “You are sure I’m not a narcissist aren’t you?” I am assured I’m not. It can play on your mind though, it has played on mine but like with you, only really in context of my mum.
You have nothing to prove to anyone. You are a lovely person, but also human, perfectly imperfect, just as you should be.
You mentioned on the Dominion thread that I had assumed you were Empowered Empath. No, I knew you were Rebecca in video 13. I placed your escape in context of what I have learned about you here on the blog as well as in that video. That’s where my comment about us often having to make several escapes came from. I know you are also in process of escape currently. I also know you will escape that narcissist too.
Your last line is exactly right. She IS gone, along with her vile put downs. No need to listen to her echo.
Xx
@TS,
Thank you TS for your kind words and yes, I do have high healer traits. I have strong pulls to fix people, things and situations. It’s funny that people at work and my personal life, both come to me with problems and tell me personal issues. Why i sent two friends recently to HG’s work. I hope they reach out to HG, as I did. Xx
Yes, my mother called me, a taker, a bad kid and selfish, among other things. I still think I see a bad person with me, sometimes, but I believe HG’s logic is finally breaking through the ghost words of my mother’s opinion of me in my mind. I have to go to the evidence as HG has told me to do. Im not perfect, but I don’t purposely hurt others and I dont think about myself first, despite what my mother said….a selfish person wouldnt put up with 16 years of alcohol abuse and verbal abuse, they just wouldnt do it. The evidence is there, I just have to recall the logical points of my argument against myself. Sounds weird,but my ET has me arguing with myself and with LT, I win. Xx
We both had morhers who lied to us and made us feel less than and some part of ourselves agreed with them, when we were kids because, like you said, mothers are supposed to be on our side, how were we ro know they were lying?? We believed them about Santa, why not believe them about ourselves too? We trusted them, trust, the very thing narcs look for in us. Trust, that we gave to our mothers, trust that we gave to other narcs in our lives .
Thank you again for the kind words. I think of you as a kind person too, though I feel your LT is higher than mine. Xx Mine still goes up, when I stress or get nervous, or any other emotion I get triggered with. Xx
Oh, I totally misunderstood that part. I thought you mistook me for Empowered Empath. Her story was so similiar to my other narc story. Im currently still working on with HG.
Yes, matrinarc is gone and thankfully HG has helped me with silencing her, her influence is so much weaker now. Ive worked on lowering my ET and worked on being nicer to myself. I stopped calling myself stupid, though I still get frustrated with myself, when I make mistakes. I dont get as angry with myself now. Little steps to improvements and goals, we can do it. Xx Thanks again xx
Hi Rebecca,
When I asked, I was referring to video 13. I was 99% positive it was you but just wanted to confirm. I figured you were talking about your escape from your workplace narc.
Rebecca,
“We believed them about Santa…” Haha! You tickled me there but it’s very true. My mum used a similar approach, her put downs were more to do with me being selfish, a taker, thinking I was better than her, that kind of thing. Turn those comments around and what they really amount to is, “You aren’t doing what I want.” “ You don’t give me enough attention.” “You belong to me, not them.” It’s all very self focussed when you really look at it, absolutely nothing to do with us, what we were doing, or what we weren’t. All about them.
My LT fluctuates in line with stress levels I think. You might think I am logical because I tend not to comment when my ET is up haha! Maybe that’s LT in itself !! 😂
Xx
@TS,
Yes, I think you’re right, they project how they feel about themselves onto us too. When you said, your mother would tell you, you thought you were better than her….my mother would call me a snob, a stick in the mud, because I would be withdrawn and silent around strangers, until I could get a feel of the people in the room and the vibe in the air….I needed to feel safe before I talked to people, she thought it was me being a snob. She didnt understand, so she critisized me, made me think I was cold and uppidity, which when I think with logic, I realize thats describing her.
Not posting with my ET up , like you…😄 I wouldn’t have many post here….sorry to say, I’m highly emotional person and most of the time, it’s the good emotions that are bouncing all over, HG has done that for me….I’m usually a bouncy, bubbly person and I lost that for a while, now my bubbly self is coming around again…despite MLSomatic and his lesser manipulations, that for the most part, I can blow off now…I’m feeling stronger, worked on a lot of inner strength building and Im very much a Weaponised Empath now. I got my little seal of proof from HG from his WED. I’m feeling pretty empowered, even bought myself the Weaponised Empath tumbler and taking it to work, when people ask me about it…I’ll direct them to HG’s work. Win, win. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I remember when I first got to narcsite, I thought there was no way I was an empath. If anything, I was the narc. Workplace narc had just disengaged from me and that’s what brought me here. The first article I read was House of Discards. Anyway, I didn’t care that I was betraying my narc husband. I remember reading about thought fuel and thought, “That’s how I feel.” Whenever my narc husband would degrade me, I would think to myself, “That’s why I’m with another man.” I knew what I was doing would hurt him but I didn’t care. I had no idea he was a narc at that point. I was just tired of everything being my fault. He would tell people he was the perfect husband. I thought if he’s perfect then everything that’s wrong in our marriage must be my fault.
Even after I did the empath detector, I didn’t believe the results. I thought I tricked the test. I thought I must be a false empath with fake empathy and that’s how I was able to trick the test, lol.
One other thing that made me question it was that I feel like I operate with a facade. I don’t trust people so I don’t let people see the real me. I keep a wall up and show people what I want them to see. This blog is the closest I come to letting people see the real me but I even do that under a pseudonym.
I think it’s normal that we question it. I think that’s actually our empathy. A narcissist would never really consider that they’re a bad person. They would just think that they’re misunderstood.
You’re incredibly kind, Rebecca and I can feel that in your responses.
@Leigh,
I had the same issue when I first came to HG’s work. I had just gotten devalued by LMRS from work and confessed to MLS husband about my relationship at work. I felt i was a bad person, the narc in the situation too. I was shocked to find out I was the empath and my husband and LMRS were both narcs…I thought back on the lovebombing from LMRS and how he pursued me, I even remember how MLSomatic husband pursued me and the bronze period with both of them, the gifts, the dinners etc. Thankfully I didnt have the opportunity to have sex with LMRS , otherwise my attachment and pain would have been worse and it was already so devastating to me as it was….I doubt my empath status at times too. I’m very grateful HG has patience with me, considering the amount of times I doubt my empath status. I just have to keep in mind that HG knows what he’s talking about, trust him and stop doubting myself.
Leigh, you’re a kind person and you’re a strong person. Don’t doubt yourself, trust HG and don’t doubt yourself. Xx I’m still so amazed just how much HG can see about us, it blows my mind how much he understands us. I feel so understood by him, like with no one else, its a nice break to be so understood and gotten…you dont know how relieved I feel, when he gets me. I have so many questions I’d ask him in person, that I’d love to see the visual reactions in him. I’d love to have a chat over tea and biscuits. Xx
I agree, Rebecca. Mr. Tudor has given us a huge puzzle piece. Not only does that validates us, it also helps us understand human behavior, in general. I’m beyond grateful to Mr. Tudor as well.
TS it might’ve something else. Since a child if he concentrate everything else can dissipate love and I don’t hear anyone.I have this concentration when listening to a person or looking at someone to read them. I have been told I am intense sometimes. If I am stared at I will look away unless curious then I might meet that stare to figure out the person. HG freaked me out with his series when a conversation again meets darkness as I had a few occasions staring into goat eyes where no soul exists. So dead and dark but I wanted to see if anything was there behind it. I felt rustlings. One terrified me. I needed a shower when I came home. I felt raped by those eyes. This was a mob lawyer. Although it never happened. One felt like there were furtive rats looking for food. This was a convicted pedophile. One felt like a storm starting and stopping a shifting wind. She was a young woman who murdered her boyfriend with an axe. One was a killer drug dealer and all I felt was a blockade like if I didn’t stop looking he would get me out of the way he was going. All had jet black eyes. There is one other he was bipolar and manic. There was nothing but an urgency to keep his eyes open. Unlike the others he blinked more. I am not sure I saw that with the others or can’t recall. Most were when I worked in criminal law. I was at a prelim or a hearing and very young. I was born curious and these eyes you don’t forget. I call them goat eyes. I have seen them in other places and I walk away. Sometimes you see it in a mug shot. Those eyes can look crazed but if you look closer just at the eyes what looks crazed is overall, the eyes are dead. Try it. Look at a photo and seek. Wide but nothing there. But I have found if you look closer, there’s a stirring. It’s different. Thank God it’s rare but if the eyes are to the soul. Some souls barely exist I think.
Contagious,
If I’m stared at what I do would depend on the type of stare and who is issuing it!
I have never encountered goat eyes but that description is excellent in terms of communicating how it looks and feels. I can imagine at that point in your career given the environment you were working in, there would be a high chance you would see that stare. Not sure what I would do there. I’m curious so I would likely be trying to find an ‘in’. I would be someone to balls it out too, even if I was uncomfortable but the truth is that without having been met with that look I actually can’t be certain how I would react at all.
I’ve never looked at a person and actually been fearful. I’ve looked and thought that I definitely wouldn’t want to meet them in a dark alley. I’ve looked and felt my skin crawl automatically. I’ve looked and known something was not right with them at all, but I’ve never looked and seen the eyes you describe. Fortunately.
In many ways, I think what you see and sense is the absence of something. The absence of a ping back maybe? Neurotypicals need a massive amount of feedback from people, not just verbal but facial expressions, body language, even the little listening noises, nods, tone matching, smiles, warmth, confirmation, allsorts. The eyes communicate massively so they will fulfil a large part of the feedback role. I would question if goat eyes are simply the absence of this ping back or non verbal communication loop. A refusal to comply to the social dance that neurotypicals need. I could see it being used to threaten, similar to the hiss of a snake, but I could also see it being deployed as a defence, a ‘shutters down no one home’ kind of thing.
I’m afraid I find it hard to contemplate the absence of a soul. It’s not really within my belief system. I prefer to believe that at some point within their lifetime, even if it was only for a second, a person did enough to hold on to their soul.
Xx
Hi Truthseeker, the thing is at the time, I had to look at them for a long time. For example, one was doing a preliminary exam. As I have spoke about, if you gaze long enough into those goat eyes you will feel something but oddly it differs. I felt aggression, restlessness like a wind changing course back one way then back again and a furtiveness like a rat looking for food and one was like a tweezer. Manic. The worst was an emptiness so deep and so cold it terrified me and I wanted to run and hide or shower. The fact that dead eyes or goat eyes have a deeper something suggests a soul. The eyes are mirrors of the soul but not a typical one. Something is not right. I have rarely seen this set of eyes in my life, maybe 5-6? In a lifetime, but I don’t forget. In typing this I search my memory and I recall it all. If s scary and fascinating as they are goat eyes in a human. It is not a standard stare. They switch for some reason.
Contagion,
I have Contagion in my Empath make up. I study people to figure them out too, get a senss of who they are, feel the vibe, read their eyes….and Ive seen cold eyes before and when they were glaring at me, I stared back because I was angry with the way LMRSomatic was treating me. His eyes were doll like, empty and he said nothing, mainly becsuse his narcissism had no clue as what to do with my reaction to his rude comments. His eyes, wont forget the look in his eyes, just empty and when I felt his emptiness for the first time.. I didnt understand it, no love, no affection for me, where did it go, what is this?? I was shocked and heartbroken and thought, something is wrong here, something is wrong with him, he doesnt feel right…..I couldnt believe how much he changed, gone was the nice, polite, caring, friendly human being and I had this cold eyed , hateful, rude, crude thing in front of me….I’ll never forget his eyes. Xx
Hi Rebecca! I wonder what made that switch. Why you could see normal eyes then doll eyes. Do you recall what happened when this changed? For me, it was mostly in a criminal context and all the goat eyes I mention were criminals with the exception of the worst who just hasn’t been caught but no doubt. The one with aggression was in a preliminary hearing. He was a drug lord and murderer from Mexico whose eyes remained the same. As I questioned him for over an hour, I could feel a pressure like “get out the way before I run you over “ despite his very mild short monotone responses. The furtive rat was a big obese greasy haired pedophile who had raped his step daughter from 8-16. It was a trial and they showed this beautiful teenager who was a cheerleader ( who sadly still loved him.) when they played this video and I watched him watch her and his goat eyes showed a furtiveness. The changing winds behind goat eyes behind goat eyes was a young pretty blond I met in prison who had put an axe in her boyfriends head. We didn’t discuss her case but she wanted her personal belongings out of storage. She remains a puzzle to me as her eyes seemed to flick back and forth when speaking. The other was bipolar off his meds who had been arrested. His eyes were goat eyes in a wide wide wide way like you see in mug shots of schizophrenic crazy killers. He assaulted cops and wanted to die by suicide by cops after an assault. The last one was a mob lawyer I spent days with in a civil bid rigging dispute. The FBI also had his clients in a criminal dispute. He was frightening beyond compare. He may never had killed anyone but he had piercing goat eyes. Dead but more like a demon. Cold, empty but definitely the piercing was ice cold and filled with malice. Dark with no bottom. I could not look at him much and focused on my job but I could feel those eyes bore into me. I was not raped but I felt like I needed a shower when I came home. I knew he was curious about me. I just know. But more like who does this little thing think she is, who is she to dare stare back at me … and maybe actually see some truth of who he was?. That’s why I jumped out of my seat reading when a contagian meets darkness. When HG says we take our tiny little tentacles to see. Everything he said was correct. So correct, I had to watch it again and again and again. This was my encounter and boy was I relieved when the case ended and he moved on. I have no curiosity about this man at all. I don’t want to know. My only hope is to never see him or those eyes again. Ever. Not in life or the afterlife. Ahhh in my dreams I have seen them by a parking garage in a beggar by the entrance. It’s the same feeling. Run. Run far. Don’t go anywhere near there. So very few … I would be happy never to see goat eyes in any form again quite frankly.
Also I almost want a consult as HG didn’t think I was crazy. It was like not only did he know exactly what I was as referring to, he could explain it. Given how rare these experiences were for me… it amazes me. Gob smacks me. HG has so much more to share it’s like getting the mysteries of the world in small spoonfuls. I am forever yearning now to know more. HG has not helped me with my many many regular lucid dreams and why and what it means …but that’s not really what this forum is about. His work has changed my life as he has 100 million others and counting. Forever grateful!
Oh one more thing, HG verified that what I saw ( not actually) was correct. HG seemed to be saying that there are different reasons for those rustling behind goat eyes. I don’t know if it’s a type. Narc or psychopath or ? Or if it was a stimuli, something that happens that causes a flickering behind those goat eyes. I only know what I saw and knew. As to goats, I love them but their eyes look fake like glued on to the body. Doll eyes is a great description Rebecca too! My feeling was a twisted soul. All of them. And all at first glance had these goat eyes until you looked into them deeper. It was not love. That’s 100% certain. I have seen that many times;)
I was taught “don’t fuel the fire” once I truly understand what that meant and how to do it; things changed. For the better. For me anyway. As best they could at the time. The bottom line of truth, in my opinion, from my my experiences, as I am sure it’s different for each individual, is that when dealing with a Narcissist is to get out. Go. Cut ties and don’t look back