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“It is quiet here isn’t it?”

“What do you want shade? Be gone.”

“Now, now that is not that very friendly is it?”

“I have nothing to say to you.”

“Perhaps, but I have much that I must say to you.”

“I will not listen.”

“Oh but you will, you have no hope other than to listen to me. Who shall I be? How about me? Do you remember me? You always said how my voice sounded like the embodiment of comfort, do you recall saying that? Do you? Do you remember how often you asked me to call you late at night and read to you until you drifted off to sleep? I did it willingly didn’t I? I read those words, those favourite passages of you until I could hear nothing until the soft sound of the breathing, regular and indicative that you had succumbed, at last to sleep? I imagine you would like me to do that now wouldn’t you? To hear my words of comfort once again. Would you wish to hear me speak again? No, my you have changed and yet you always said it was me that had changed? Perhaps I shall change. I shall be me instead; do you remember me now? Does this force remind you of me? I was better than her, you made it so clear that that was the case. Forget her and her bedtime stories, she treated you like a child didn’t she? I know what you really wanted didn’t I? I understood you didn’t I? How does it feel to hear my voice now after all this time? You’d thought this one was forgotten hadn’t you?”

“Shut up, I never forget.”

“Oh but you try to, you try so hard to forget me and all of the others.”

“No I don’t.”

“Please don’t lie, I can see through them now. I admit, I never used to be able to, but you were oh so very good at making your lies seem like reality. I had no idea. I was so in awe of you. You were everything I had ever wanted, but that is what you do isn’t it? You showed me yourself so I loved myself. It is clever, I must give you that and there is no denying you are very clever, the brightest and the best that I have ever met. Yet, what do you use this gift for? To wound, to maim and to cripple?”

“You do not trouble me shade, I know what you are.”

“Do you? That is good. For so long I thought you did not, but you are realising now aren’t you?”

“I have always known. I know everything.”

“Of course you do. You taught me everything. Yes, it is me now. How about that for a trip down memory lane. You taught me everything and yet I was the first of them all to realise wasn’t I?”

“It is you? Where have you been? Stop this, you keep shifting, it is unfair.”

“Oh I have always been here, always watching you. My you have become quite the polished article haven’t you? I always knew you were destined for greatness though. I was the first to know.”

“It is my right. You must not come here and mock me.”

“I am not mocking you. I love you. We all loved you. You know that because you gave us a perfect love.”

“Yes I did and do you see what you all did with it?”

“Now now, let us not play that game.”

“What game is that?”

“You are doing it already.”

“Cease your riddles, I am the doer, you are done to, leave me, I have much to do.”

“But I cannot leave you, you will not let me go.”

“I tell you now, leave, leave me be.”

“It does not change does it? You want me, you do not want me, yet here I am. You said that nobody is allowed to leave and you have me still. Does that not please you?”

“Not when you intend to mock me, no.”

“Yet he always mocked me.”

“Not another? Why do you plague me like this? You are no longer welcome.”

“You mocked me, you belittled me, you made me feel like nothing and all I wanted to do was to please you, why did you do this to me? Please? Tell me what I did wrong?”

“You come here now and seek those answers? You should have known. I showed you how you should be and then you failed me.”

“I did not fail you.”

“I did not fail you.”

“Nor did I.”

“Nor I.”

“Nor I.”


“Such a favoured weapon of yours. How you tore me apart when you layered ice over our love.”

“Not you as well, what do you want?”

“I just want to know.”

“You come, you all come, masquerading as wanting to know the truth but I know you, I know your kind, I have you in my eye, you are here to torment me. I am no fool; I know exactly what you want.”

“We just wanted you.”

“Yes, you.”


“I wanted you.”

“Just you. Nobody else.”

“Quieten your tongues you harpies, must you whirl about me, your soft words that are barbed and poisonous to my own ears? I command you, leave, leave me be.”

“You said you loved me the best and that you would never let me go.”

“You told me you loved me with a perfect love and that we would always be together.”

“You told me that you loved me unlike any love you had ever known and that nothing would tear us apart.”

“You told me that your love was pure and unblemished and would last for ever.”

“You told me that your love was beyond that of any other person and that I would bask in it until my dying day.”

“Do you see how you said all those of things to us? Promises, vows and declarations. We believed you and we still do, we still want you.”

“Then why come here and torture me?”

“Because you found perfection, you had the very thing that you always wanted and you let it go.”

“I did not.”

“You did.”

“No, I did not. You do not know, you think you do, but you do not know.”

“But we do know, we know better than you realise. You called us idiots, you called us fools, you called us morons and yet who is the fool now? Who had the one thing that he always wanted and let it go? Let her go?”

“Go to hell, all of you shades, go to hell.”

“Go to hell? We are already here aren’t we? With you.”

29 thoughts on “Shade

  1. Asp Emp says:

    This is one of my favourites. How I view it now is there would be occasion where memories can come back to haunt an abused person, triggered by external stressor(s). It also indicates, somewhat, isolation / loneliness, again, ‘reminded’ by an external stressor. Then again, that ‘loneliness’ can always be present within an individual because of a life-time of having to ‘withdraw’ into oneself through experience of abuse. Whether it is a narcissist, or empath – whether it is consciously aware, or not.

    Some people say the words “I understand”. Unless they are an ‘expert by experience’, they do not understand because they have not walked in my shoes, so to speak.

    This is a great article, HG, thank you for re-posting it.

  2. Joa says:

    One of my beloved HG texts here. Special.

    I’m glad you keep repeating them.

    I very rarely go back to the same content, although sometimes I do not remember details and events, but I always remember feelings and that will be enough for me.

    I read this text many times (before and today) and in many ways (before and today). I have probably read it a dozen times already. Amazing. And I still want to read…

    Every time I discover something new, a new thought. I was sure I was looking further (perspective view) than he did. I just lost that certainty. Sometimes, I’m too sure, it’s doom, a little more humble…

  3. WhoCares says:

    Z – perhaps you will see this here. I haven’t been able to post on the forum for the last while. And therefore, haven’t been able to reply regarding your findings. I can read but can’t post – at least none of my replies there seem to be going through. I look forward to your re-posting of it though! (When it’s moderated.)

  4. A Victor says:

    Your own words come back to haunt you. That is ironic.

    We all try so hard not to fail yet there is no way for it not to happen. It is so sad, reading this just makes me frustrated at the disorder, the thing that could possibly help is the thing it can’t allow.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      I have read this article so many times and spent most of those times, either feeling mildly protective or trying to figure out who was who in terms of previous IPPS. My focus changed this time due to one detail, the Shade with the comforting voice that HG would call late at night asking her to read until he drifted off to sleep. HG doesn’t struggle to sleep. At all. He called late at night to bring about sleep deprivation. Few people require only 4 hours of sleep.

      If we read the article in a different way then it becomes a list of seductive phrases used to ensnare and a list of manipulations used to devalue. The narcissistic covenant is also mentioned, lack of accountability is demonstrated, even a pretend pity play. It’s ram packed with information about narcissism. I used to feel sad for HG when I read this article. It felt like introspection but a narcissist is incapable of that. He might well portray it though.

      This time, I don’t feel any sadness. I actually feel admiration. It is very cleverly written and manages to play to what we would like to believe rather than the reality behind these ensnarements. It demonstrates how well HG understands his audience.

      However, another of my illusions just bit the dust!


      1. A Victor says:

        Hi TS,

        Yes, you will notice that I said frustrated at the disorder, I am not sad for HG, I feel like, in a way, he brought it on himself with his treatment of people. But, he didn’t, that is the part that makes me sad, it is a disorder. And when I wrote that I was also thinking of all the narcs in my life, who didn’t stand a chance, that does make me sad, for all of them including HG.

        Oddly, I have never felt protective of HG. I say oddly because I think that, like you, others here do feel that way also. But to me, he is a man, he doesn’t need protecting, he is very able to take care of himself. I have wished I could have been his mother, I would have protected him then, but that time is long past and who he is now wouldn’t be helped by anything I have to offer. I have had this same thought as my son has become a man, he is a blackbelt in Tae kwon do, and there was a point, as he became bigger than I that both of us realized the dynamic had shifted. He would be the protective one if the need ever arose. That is not to say I wouldn’t take a bullet for him, oh no, just logically, in some situations, he would handle it more effectively than I could. I did not feel protective of my ex really either, he also didn’t need it, nor my parents. I am probably an outlier in this thinking since empaths do seem to feel the need to protect. I did so with a fury for my children, when the need arose, and I also tried to teach them to do it for themselves, they are all okay in that area, strong. But adults are not my problem, it probably ties in with the desire to have no one rely on me. What if I can’t handle it and I fail them? It stems from a fear of failure, wow, epiphany, thank you TS!! I can now work on that. I will stand up for people in certain situations, if I feel they’re being unduly attacked, but those situations are few and far between and have specific things that would bring it out.

        I don’t know enough about any of HG’s IPPSs to tell who is who, that isn’t a focus for me, rather here they all conglomerate into one I think. Even in that paragraph with the comforting voice, it reads to me like more than one speaking, instead there are a few speaking to each other. Like triangulation in his own mind. Maybe Shade shows a sense of insanity? I believe somewhere I read HG saying he was insane. I also took that piece, as I have previously, as referring to one or two being his mother or grandmother, or someone else in his life who read to him as a child. I did not think of it as him now. I could see him asking a victim to read to him as he nods off, as a manipulation, but not that he would ever need it. And think about how much she would love doing so, I would have anyway, for my ex, I would have found this very romantic. And then later the rejection of such a thing, more manipulation.

        I agree, full of information about narcissism, clearly showing several aspects of it, though I did not see this the first time reading it. I think this article has only gone around one other time since I’ve been here, at least that I recall it. And it was the YT video last time that really brought it home for me, made me notice it, there were multiple voices that HG did in that video. I also thought the using of his own voice for it, through varying it up, was ingenious since this played out in his own mind, it made it quite internal, personal, to him, to his chasm. In the event he would ever re-do it with female voices speaking where those are, I think that would show yet again another unique perspective on it.

        Yes, I am seeing more of the “romanticizing” aspect of some of the articles, I believe BC30 brought that to my attention a while back. Reading through that lens, it is different to read these, I read these “romantical” ones more all the time from that place of insanity, how narcissists thinking is so different from ours, showing their perspective well. He understands his audience for sure, it makes more sense all the time why the articles are recycled, there is a deeper understanding as we peel back the onion layers and begin to see more clearly.

        I don’t understand your final sentence, which illusion? Do you mean the “romance” in our relationships that isn’t real? If so, yes, bit the dust. Though for me, in my marriage, that was true long ago, probably even before the day he walked out. I just didn’t know what it was yet. It was harder with the Summer Narc since I was still in the romance phase when I escaped from him, that one lingered longer, held on to me longer after the fact.

        Thank you for your thoughts, they help me to flesh things out more fully, always appreciated!

        1. A Victor says:

          Oh no, sorry about the length of that!!

          1. Joa says:

            I also 🙂

          2. A Victor says:

            I can’t wait to read your long comment! I have to get a minute in my day to devote to it!

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Hey AV,

          I thought what you had to say is really interesting. Shade is an article that has been discussed previously on KHG. I think Who Cares examined it in detail so she might have more to bring to the party than me.

          I thought the same. I attributed the comforting voice to a grandparent originally. I questioned HG on this during the last Q&A. I didn’t specify Shade but did ask if he was read to as a child. He answered that he read to himself. I think you’re right, the voices represent the concept of past IPPS.

          I agree, the articles being repeated over a time frame is helpful. It proves to me how much impact my own ET has on my thought processes. I gravitate to certain aspects and view HG in one way when my ET is higher. I view him in another way when it’s lower. In many respects that illustrates HG’s point as regards ET and what it does. Either way though, high or low I have the utmost respect and admiration for his work. I just sound colder and more analytical when my ET is down. The written word doesn’t help there I don’t think. In person, my demeanour towards him would be unchanged, high or low ET.

          I agree, the IPPS that read to HG would have been happy to do so. It’s the motivation behind the manipulation that is representative of the narcissist though.

          The illusion biting the dust. That’s in relation to how I view HG. I still see him as being in my corner or rather in all of our corners. Someone that took the time to explain and set me straight on days where I was really struggling though it was well hidden. He seemed to have a knack of seeing the flare go up, answering when I needed him to. So with that he gets a special corner in my affection.

          As I have moved through recovery, my ET now lower and I read the articles, elements of which are disturbing and do relate to HG his psychopathy and his narcissism, then the illusion of how I saw him originally, with soaring ET, is somewhat shattered. I find that sad in some ways but necessary. He still gets to keep his corner though!

          Protection. Like you, my view is that HG is big enough and bad enough to look after himself! More than we know. He certainly does not require my protection. I will reserve my protection for those who do require it. Similar to you, I feel protective of the child HG. Very difficult for an empath to read about HG’s childhood and not be upset, angry and feel protective. Some parts of his therapy have angered me and made me feel protective, the forcing into therapy I wholeheartedly disagree with. That’s a violation in my view, but that is just my view. I will always defend his work and his treatment of the people here on the blog which I think is entirely professional.

          I know what you mean about the shift in the protective role as far as your son is concerned. The protector role does shift. I was on the subway with my son the other day. It was ram packed as we moved through the station. He kept checking behind to check I was still there. Not for his benefit, but for mine. I found it very sweet but it also made me realise my role as his protector is fast drawing to a close. That saddened me a little.

          I’m glad writing your comment helped you to organise another piece of the puzzle. Not everyone feels as much of a need to heal and fix, or protect, I think it varies and different cadres will have different emotional priorities. Good thing. It wouldn’t do for us all to be wired the same.


          1. A Victor says:

            Hi TS,
            Yes, I forgot that HG read to himself as a child.

            Your thoughts about viewing/reacting to HG differently depending on ET level are interesting. I have recognized that when I am experiencing higher ET my consults with him are different. Thankfully, over my time here, in general, it has gone down. And, I am beginning to recognize when it goes up a bit, due to other factors, not him, and my expectations for those consults changes. It’s kind of like him realizing when you needed a comment. My view of him is pretty stable at this point. My illusion of him was shattered a while back, but in it’s place came a deep and lasting affection, gratitude and respect. The more I have learned of him and from him, the deeper my understanding of his genius is, it becomes more clear to me all the time. Respect for his work ethic, his willingness to share his experience and his ability to do so with such clarity. I do believe he will go down in history as a man who made great strides in the advancement of understanding narcissism, and of educating people. All of that of course balanced with the fact that we know that he has done and likely continues to do some really horrible things. It would be so nice to think he’s the exception, but, as was recently pointed out to me, he is not, he has the disorder and it is what it is. I always feel like that is pigeon-holing a person, really hate it, but it still is what it is. These thoughts sometimes loop in my mind.

            Forcing therapy…I have mixed feelings about this. Since we know that HG has done bad things, and those closest to him are affected the most, maybe his family had real concerns, we don’t know the full picture. I think his dad was still alive, and others who are not narcissists were pulled into that decision. I expect his mother ran the show so it could be that it was unwarranted, probably her attempt to control him more than anything, and if this is the case, I agree, it was wrong to do. This is the entire thought process my mind takes whenever I think about this. I couldn’t make a call on it without more information, and even then it may not be black and white.

            I love following bigger people through crowds, it makes it so much easier. I typically can’t even see over the heads! It didn’t make me sad when my son became the protector, it happened so fast, it was just there. I do think about him getting a girlfriend and wonder how I will feel about that. I was talking to him about my desire to go on a date recently and he smiled and said “Well, I won’t be here forever.” I said “I know, that’s why I want to go on a date!” I’m thinking ahead!!

            Thank you for mentioning emotional priorities, I am going to give that some thought, maybe take another look at my TDC to get some direction. And I agree, it is good there is variety in the world! 🙂

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I think your view is very healthy. I see no issue in being grateful and having respect for someone who helped when help was needed. There is no doubt in my mind that HG’s work will be recognised in the future as being most effective in terms of its relatability, practicality and accuracy about narcissism and it’s effects. HG is an excellent teacher. His father would likely take some pleasure from that part of HG’s occupation.

            My view is that HG’s father took a back seat where HG was concerned. I think Matrinarc claimed ownership of him very early on. Just my view. You’re right, historical events are told only through one perspective. The family might have been concerned, some of the family. I just see it as a Matrinarc move. An attempt to assert control and try to make HG dance to her tune. She’s playing out of her league there!

            We’ve talked about my obsession with privacy before. Forcing therapy for whatever reason I just can’t view as anything other than a violation. I might not be the best person to offer an opinion there though!

            Therapy falls under the heading of ‘Things I wouldn’t do’. It sits below ‘positive affirmations’ and ‘get hypnotised again’ haha! It’s a long list, a lot of it features tequila and the word ‘again’.


          3. A Victor says:

            Hi TS,

            No, there is no issue with gratitude for help, nor respect for those helping. I agree about Matrinarc controlling things around getting HG into therapy, and yes, out of her league.

            I have tried therapy, it did not help much at all, in fact in some ways it actually did damage. You are wise to avoid it, I think. Thinking of it from a parental aspect, I would encourage therapy in specific situations, maybe. I would never force it anyone, so I suppose that is where I would fall. Encourage but not force. I can see why it would be a violation certainly.

            Absolutely agree on the positive affirmations and I think you were very brave to be hypnotized, that I would never do!

            I will reply to your message below here also.

            Thank you for the kind thoughts about my son and his leaving the nest. The knowledge that he will at some point is bittersweet for me also, I have to remind myself that this is what I raised him to do and both of us will be fine. He more than me, I’m happy to think.

            I actually don’t mind crowds, as long as there is not aggression of any kind happening. It is easy to get lost in a crowd, and I am fascinated still with people, watching them is a favorite pastime. It is cute that your kids get a kick out of you being the smallest! Only my son got taller than I, and he also teases me sometimes, it is fun.

          4. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Forgot what I was going to say there, I’m spaced out today. Your conversation with your son I thought was lovely. It made me smile and feel sad at the same time. He clearly loves his mum, the thought of him leaving the nest made me sad for you though too. A bittersweet comment but lovely.

            Haha, I’m not great in crowds at all. Too noisy. I’m ok if the crowd is moving, it’s worse when the crowd is still. I keep the kids in front of me so I can have sight of them. Same here, I am now officially the smallest in the family, which they both find highly amusing.


          5. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Interesting what you said there about therapy. I haven’t tried therapy. I watched a friend go through it for years and with a fairly senior specialist in her local area. I also think it made her far worse. A mix of CBT and talk therapy. Good therapy I can imagine as being helpful but good therapists are like good doctors, few and far between and you’re lucky if you find one!

            I did try hypnotism. The first occasion was a stage hypnotist at uni! He had been in the student union bar prior to his performance chatting with people. I had chatted with him too. When he asked for volunteers from the audience, I raised my hand. He pointed at various hands inviting them up. ‘You, you, you’. Then he came to my hand ‘Not you.’ Grrrr, I fancied seeing if he could do it! I asked him after (back in the bar) why he had said no. He answered, “Some people are not receptive to hypnotism.” I interpreted that to mean that the volunteers he picked were showmen, would play along for giggles, even if not really hypnotised.

            I found a proper hypnotist years later. I researched properly and this guy helped with stress, anxiety and also, helping people quit smoking. Bloody expensive too! Not when I considered how much I was sinking into my drug of choice though. So I wanted it to work. I went into his office, lay on the couch and listened. Now I’m not being funny here, but what a complete pile of garbage that really was. He was speaking in his ‘calm soft voice’ walking me down a country lane or whatever it was and I’m thinking, “Seriously. You having a laugh here mate?” Surprisingly, it didn’t work! He tried again a few weeks later. Same result, nothing, I was wide awake, and bored.

            I stopped smoking a year or so later. I found a book that worked. Put out the cigarette and didn’t really think about it after.

            Hypnotism, waste of money, never again!

          6. A Victor says:

            TS, that is quite the story! Thank you for sharing it. I would be concerned about a charlatan and equally as concerned about it actually working! I am just a chicken about letting someone else control my mind. Haha, and I married a narc. Wow. 😂

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Glad you liked it. Agree. My view now is that the only one allowed in my head is me!

          8. Joa says:

            AV, TS, you are good mothers! I dream until my child stands strong on his own legs and goes out into the world 🙂 Finally, I will be able to go crazy, as I want, ha ha ha 🙂

            Unfortunately, I do too much for her, and she uses my guilt for her too well (for not having a father). Sometimes I fear that maybe she is too well and nothing will encourage her to go her own way. I’m still waiting for the end of high school and I will have to tighten the screw of a nice atmosphere at home a bit. A row every day and maybe I’ll smoke shes out of the house, ha ha ha 🙂

            Kidding. I love her more than my life (this is not a cliche, I will give it back without thinking). But sometimes I’m scared, because she has become very introverted. II’m afraid I didn’t give her the courage to go any further. I am waiting for a spark from outside that will “grab” her. Otherwise I will have to make a huge effort to push my own baby out of the nest…

            TS, therapy – I understand perfectly well. I, too, have never used the help of a therapist and I cannot imagine it. I am self-righteous – nobody knows me as well as I know myself 🙂

            Hypnosis – it was great to read. I’ve always found myself unfit for hypnosis. My inner cynic and my innate resistance would perfectly protect me from submitting to the will of another human being.

            In addition to… the will of the narcissist. Here “hypnosis” is huge. I follow seduced by a narcissistic melody, like behind a Magic Flute… 🙂

          9. A Victor says:

            Joa, part of being a good mother is allowing them to do whatever they can for themselves and sometimes not even that much! They need to learn to think and figure things out, if we do it all, there is no opportunity! My youngest three kids did their own laundry by the age of 6, and I did show them, once. They all learned to cook early also, and clean. These were things I did not learn as a child and I was going to make certain they had these skills when they left my house. But, I am very stickler about not repeating myself, I find it to be a waste of time, so they knew, if they didn’t pay attention, they would be on their own the next time. So they did pay attention. And, they learned to fill in the gaps, think it through, use logic, if they didn’t know what to do. Not that I wasn’t open to questions, haha, but they knew a question would likely be answered with another question, which made them think, what will her question be? So they could often figure it out without help. It sounds tough perhaps, but they are successful, and so far, only one married to a narc. And she’s the one I did the most for! I loved raising my children but it is a lot of work also, understand your sentiments of being ready when your daughter is ready to go. She will be ready when she is ready, even if that means you have to give her a bit of help! 🙂 In the meantime, she is blessed to have you!

      2. Joa says:

        TS, you are very focused on HG. I also tend to do that, but I guess I do it for different reasons. I intentionally redirect my attention from “my N” to this blog, to this world, to HG – in order to keep the purity (albeit apparent) in the territory of “my N”. I prefer to throw everything here, to the people around me and to the drawer, because it’s supposed to be quiet there. In fact, very badly on my part, I have the impression that I am using HG and you for my own purposes, but I have to do it – who else will take care of me, if not me? Gotta pour it somewhere… and here I found a great environment for it (thank you HG!). I am not interested in who or what will do with it. Bless you 😊

        Of course, I am learning here too, both from HG and from you. It is interesting and nice thanks to every “pawn” participating in the world “HG Tudor”. In conclusion, being here and touching with you, I focus mainly on myself, trying to understand myself even better, this lining that I am padded at the bottom.

        It is with real pleasure that I also delve into the male world, which I have always missed, which fascinates and attracts me, and at the same time irritates me. I would like to get rid of this irritation. I understand that what irritates me is what is necessary in a man, that is why he would be a man. I cannot deal with this duality. This masculine element attracts me so much, I admire it so much that I squint my eyes from the glare and open my mouth with delight, and at the same time I despise and belittle it – because is not like me? (again, I think I’m a narcissist ☹). I would like to change it, I am looking for a way… Or maybe this is what it is? Just accept this duality?
        The narcissistic male world is much stronger… hmmm… I would say that everything is stronger 😊 Maybe that’s why I’m so drawn to N, they are more expressive. Ykhm … just looped in my own thoughts, ha ha ha 😊

        I swam towards myself again 😊 Coming back to you, I have the impression that your imaginary HG has become too close to you. I know that there is a specific person behind it, who also interests me, on whom I also put “myself”, but I do not analyze the details of his life with such concentration. There is no such level of interaction that would turn me towards him. Curiosity, yes, after all, he also allows us to touch him exhibitionistically here – to some extent, so he brings us closer. I am eager to read and accept what HG gives, filtering it through my experience, but I am not trying to unravel the “mystery”. I accept what HG wrote, he wanted and he did, showed as much as he wanted, then I transfer to myself.

        Similarly with “my N”, it interests me in terms of relationship with me. Jealousy, yes, I’ve learned to control to a great extent. Did he go on, entertain another woman? Ok. I worry about him, I think, I miss him (still too much), sometimes my heart jumps one meter ahead. But now He is not here, so now my focus is on myself and those around me. I mute this relationship. I still haven’t gotten to the point where I want to break these threads (maybe in a while?), but the energy between us has almost stopped flowing, so despite this bizarre connection, his inflatable balloon, who he left for me, instead of himself, is getting smaller and smaller. I try to blow at it as little as possible, although there are days that it swells again and stands in all its glory. But… it’s just a balloon 🙁

        I got lost again, I caught this thought about you a moment ago, but it escaped me, because I turned to myself again (what selfishness!). I can’t explain. Total embarrassment, I mixed up a few different things 😊 I got tired myself 😊 Reproof! Sit down! 😊

        Maybe simpler – I think we should focus on ourselves, because no one else will do it for us. Leave others to others. However, I consider the exchange of experiences and thoughts to be valuable and very important.


        I have to, I have to, because I can’t stand it! During the Golden Age, we still fell asleep with “my N” with the earphones at the ear. He liked it when I told him (made up stories about us, for example), I did it often, then I listened to his calm breathing and I also fell asleep calmly. I loved that breath so much. Being with him, I stroked his face while he was sleeping…
        He also put me to sleep. Total stupidity. I made him repeat and repeat the word: “SOMETHING”. My language spells: “COŚ”. Phonetically, “C” reads as something between the English “T-S” with a larger indentation in the center of the tongue, and “Ś” reads like a hissing, rustling stream. “My N” has a very rustling dual voice, like bells in his throat, sometimes indistinct (my daughter inherited the same jaw arrangement). In a set with these soft letters, he calmed me down with his voice 😊 So he rustled and rustled like falling leaves, he purred like a happy cat, and quite often 😊

        Sometimes when my daughter says: “SOMETHING – COŚ,” the shivers go down my spine, just like that.

        Oh no! I blew up Clown’s balloon again 😊
        Where are you? Where? You’re not? Ah, I’m sorry and goodbye. Pssssst, deflate, deflate this baloon 😊


        TS, don’t feel compelled to reply to this scribble, I just wanted to throw it in. Though I still haven’t gotten to what I mean 😊😊😊

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Hello Joa,

          I don’t see your thoughts as scribble. I see them as you trying to make sense of the emotional turmoil you’re going through. I can relate to much of what you write when I go back in to my own ensnarement and how it felt as I realised things weren’t right and I needed to put a stop to it. It’s at this point the internal battle really begins. HG describes this as the Second Battle. As we fight our way out of ensnarement we all go through three battles. The First Battle, The Second Battle and The Final battle. You can search these articles in the menu bar. I think you will find them interesting and, strangely reassuring in that, you aren’t alone in the way you are feeling just now.

          I can understand you using the blog as a distraction from your narcissist. Carry on doing that! HG’s articles do make us examine our own thoughts and with that we begin to question and reassess. This needs to happen. It’s part of understanding what is actually happening to us during ensnarement. As for me, I am very flattered that you find comfort in sharing your thoughts with me and I am always happy to listen and be honest with you. Honesty is what helped me most here on the blog and continues to do so.

          I think your attraction to a masculine element but your frustration with it, points to a very real need to connect to someone you view as an equal. You view yourself as ‘the strong one’, I am very similar. I think your desire to dominate and break a person down is you trying to strip away the things that you see as obstacles to a connection. You remind me of something HG wrote in his Super Empath article. I’m feeling lazy so I’m quoting from memory but it’s words to this effect.

          “ The false strength that the narcissist exhibits, the apparent confidence and ease within his own skin, proves to be a real draw to the Super Empath because she sees herself in the narcissist whilst the narcissist is seducing.”

          This is not to say that you are a Super Empath necessarily, but rather there is an element of this thinking in what you describe,

          When you describe your narcissist as having left but leaving behind a balloon in the corner, one that you resist blowing air into, here you are visualising your addiction I think. The narcissist leaves but you are surrounded by Ever Presence. You think about him, miss him and as you do so you breathe life back into the illusion. The person you miss has gone. In reality, you miss an illusion. The person you miss was sadly never there to begin with. It’s the most heartbreaking part of the whole ensnarement. We miss a person that was actually created by us, our needs, our wants. Nothing about it was genuine. Only you and what you felt.

          If you are shopping for books, I can strongly recommend ‘Exorcism’. This book really helped me. I am confident that it will resonate with you also.

          Haha! I know what you were trying to describe as regards my view of HG. Similar to you, when I first arrived here, HG reminded me of my narcissist, particularly because much of my interaction with my narc was online. I found that comforting. In retrospect I substituted one narc for another ( albeit a far more intelligent, humorous and engaging version 😜). However, one narc was damaging me, the other one was showing me the way out. In the midst of all the ET, I could recognise a logical voice and so moved towards it. As I explained to AV I will remain grateful to HG for that. I’m not unusual there, so yes, he does have a corner in my affection.

          Similarly though, as my ET has fallen, I do see HG differently now. I analyse him because I see his narcissism in play, I’m starting to see his psychopathy a little too. Every move is done for a reason. Comments are also made for a reason. There are no throwaways. If I’m going to cut my teeth and pick out narcissism in comments than it’s far safer for me to do that here than in real life.

          The reason for apparent knowledge about HG is the Knowing HG series that is available in the Knowledge Vault. A number of us have that material and it is discussed on a separate forum that is part of the Narcsite blog. Essentially we are given clues to various aspects of HG’s life, job, upbringing, family members etc and the task is to piece answers together. Information is hidden within HG’s books, articles and even images. So, part of what you pick up on is my cluehunting! The cluehunting provides an excellent distraction to thinking about our own narcissists, whilst at the same time teaching more about the dynamic with the narcissist.

          I dip in and out of that side of the blog. My ensnarement was based largely online. Suffice to say, I am aware of my own weak spots and take active steps to safeguard my own recovery. I can see the basis of your comment, your thinking, but don’t worry my eyes are definitely open. I have been well taught here!

          1. A Victor says:

            Thank you for the mention TS.

            I would like to say that I have also noticed what you say about everything that we see being for a reason, nothing wasted. I refrain from trying to analyze when it comes to others, not knowing their history, their relationship with HG etc, but, I do also use this place as a safe place to practice new skills learned here. Then I look for safe places in my real life to practice them before they are needed in real life for real, haha.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            That seems sensible to me! We are here to learn. My view is it’s better for me to make my mistakes here too.

            There are various things I practice on here. Going to evidence is one. I’m so used to operating through instinct, finding evidence doesn’t come naturally. My career choices even reflected an instinct based approach. The fact that I’m interested in the subject helps because I’m reading around it anyway. Hopefully some of those habits will translate to my daily dealings going forward. Or not haha! I’m hellish stubborn when I get the bit between my teeth. Does stubborn equate to defiance? Not sure, maybe it does.


          3. A Victor says:

            Yes! I have and do practice, test, many things I am learning here prior to going out with it! This is such a gentle place, very safe for doing so. I do take things off here pretty quickly once I am a bit confident though, I have to in order to not stagnate, I have to push myself a little.

            Going to the evidence is a huge one, for sure! Another was sorting out flirting, and another is stepping out of my comfort zone regarding conflict. I need to practice to get a comfort level, it is terrifying for me. In my life, the only times I have really done it were when it involved an issue that I felt very strongly about. I would say that I am not at all stubborn, I think stubborn and defiant are not the same, exactly. I would say I am more……precise, accurate, I don’t like inaccuracies…I think that makes me a perfectionist, picky, not very flattering at all. Carry-overs from my dad I think. In the past I would usually walk away, but sometimes I need or want to speak up and to do so I need to practice it. I can also be distinctly defiant, it is how I got through the things I did, my upbringing and my marriage, why I stuck with my marriage at times. I was usually defiant in my own mind (I have always lived there a lot), I always knew I was right and they were wrong, when it was so. I think this happened when my pride was bumped, or more often, when it was stomped. Those are just a few things that I practice here, it is good to be able to do so. Thank you for your reply TS, and for listening.

          4. Joa says:

            Hello TS, you are right, my “pouring out” is wading through the maze of my own emotions. I love it! It’s my whole life, completely independent of the proximity to Narc. This is my daily “job”. And I can’t imagine my life otherwise. Sometimes, when emotions subside and there is about 2-day apathy, these are very unpleasant moments (although necessary). I like, when logic and emotionality clash in me. It drives me. My only task is not to let my emotions dominate “too much”, because it would be tantamount to going to the infamous side – crazy 😊

            I don’t know why, but unlike many of you, I don’t want to get out of the trap. I just go from the real person “my N” (which I can see well now and saw from the very beginning, though behind the fog) to the unreal person “my N” (i.e. my own illusion). I realized it pretty quickly, and so did he. He claimed that he was unable to maintain my illusion of him (my fault). He jumps in the same way, though without the wave of emotions that I have, and he jumps from person to person. I have read articles about emotional battles twice, they are very interesting. The problem is, I love rough sea and miss him (addiction). I have been on land for many years and every day I bask in the waves by the shore, which I break by myself 🙂 The land itself does not interest me. It is boring and it means death. This is my way of life and my survival. I think it’s the best for me.
            I wrote before – I never lose my logical thinking, when it comes to the core and what I believe to be the essence of life (my inner compass). For me, logic has always been intertwined with emotions like a braid. At different times in life, the strands are of different thickness. In the presence of N, my inner “storms” are even greater, but at the same time I am CERTAIN that I can always see the beacon. Sometimes the sight of it disappears only for a moment, when the wave is high, but I know in what direction to go, even when I’m under the wave (submarine, ha ha ha 😊).

            Maybe I’m too confident. Sometimes I scold myself for it, and for a moment I feel more humble. But I am not afraid of N. and contact with them. Same at work. I can give a lot, much more than most people. I can shrink myself by increasing the other person (I even like it), but I know that at some point in the giving, I will stop.
            When years later “my N” appeared and we started talking, I quickly decided to what final point I could reach (so as not to be disgusted with myself). Even he did not expect to win so much. I didn’t him give right away. I let him win slowly. I let him feel the wave of victory and triumph until he beamed and he couldn’t help but brag (though I nudged him gently when he was at the top, marking my dominance, ha ha ha, I couldn’t restrain, but he chose “not to notice it”). And when we reached the limits of what I could give him, I just communicated it. I had to be repeated several times, more and less bluntly, but he understood. Everything else, the torments of love, is the essence of life – happiness and unhappiness are equally stimulating – of course I prefer the former. I do not regret. I will go into it again, if the time is right and I need it, and if the other side is willing too.

            It’s also possible that I will go into this dance with someone else – it’s a new change that has occurred within me. The prospect of change is now possible, although it is still hard for me to part with the safe illusion. But when the opportunity arises, I’ll do it in a blink of an eye (I’ve already been through this with the first N).

            Perhaps that’s why I feel so confident, that I’ve actually traversed the emotional seas and came ashore so many times, that I take it as a normal calming process, a very well-known path to me. But I’m back anyway…

            Thank you for “listening” to me, TS. I feel guilty. I can tire worse than Narcissus 😊

            Oh yes! You put it wonderfully TS – attraction to a man equal to me. Just like that! Equal me in both strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want a walking ideal (boredom) and a bleating kid (too much work). In fact, I don’t know at all if, at this stage in my life, I would be able to have a permanent relationship with a man. I know I want to be in the middle of the emotional sea in a while. But if that doesn’t happen, the coastal waves, that I am chopping up, will have to suffice. They can tire me out quite a bit too 😊

            I am not strong. It’s just an impression. Life forced me to be. I’d like to give the stere to someone else and drift a little. Unfortunately, the hitherto steersmen failed 😊

            That is why it was so nice to play with “my N” in giving the helm, even for a moment. And I’m glad I experienced it – I know it was faked both by me and by him – only for a moment. He feigned interest only for a moment. He only became a rock for a moment. Only for a moment he pretended to be a father to our child. He only lived my life for a while (and I lived his life for a while). And I pretended to believe it all – just for a moment.
            I thanked him later for giving me these moments, specifically mentioning them. He knew I missed for it and I wanted to feel what it was like – to be able to count on someone, to be able to discuss a child’s problems with his father (no one else could give it to me except him!). Talking to him about her… Ah, it was great. I wanted to feel it – just for a moment – and he gave it to me. I gave him a lot in return. More than he planned. He was surprised. I did it on purpose, and I wanted to do it. He deserved (although he only gave scraps of “himself”). My giving is always disproportionate to what I receive, but I enjoy it.
            Then, of course, there was a massacre of everything (he gave much much more in this regard), but we both knew that it would happen, it was part of – as HG writes – an unwritten contract. Although I must admit, that him exceeded my wildest expectations in this matter. The devaluations from years ago were just a cruel but quiet rustle compared to that tornado 😊

            You are right TS. Thank you very much for these words. The desire to dominate and the desire to “break” a man – appears when I notice more and more obstacles between us, too many weaknesses that I am not able to accept. At the beginning, I always give a lot of trust (for me it is the other way around, first I give every person 100% trust, when abused it decreases and decreases, then these desires appear, it’s like a reprimand, like a short seismic shock, and when it does not work and the percentage level of trust is already too small, I feel anxious and turn my back on the person). It should be added, that I do not trust “my N”, but at the same time I trust myself enough in my relations with him, that I can give him a percentage, although I know that it is not his merit, but my running of affairs and turning a blind eye. Bizarre isn’t it? I can’t explain it better.

            The balloon, I wrote about, is obviously an illusion. My own illusion – “my N”, which he is so great at making real – when he wants to 😊 And when he is not there, I blow the balloon myself, although now with a downward trend. He’s quite small now. It will never disappear, because I cannot throw it away. For me, there is no final rejection either, ha ha ha 😊 He has and he will take place in my heart – I also see it in the system of individual compartments – smaller and larger.

            “Nothing about it was genuine. Only you and what you felt. ”
            The most important thing for me is what I think and feel at that moment, even if the premises are false. Each person measures the world with their own perspective. It cannot be otherwise, no matter how you try to be objective.
            If I had decided that the whole of this account was not true, I would have had to challenge myself. Yes, what I saw and heard was falsified. But his mind and his body are real. I connected with this mind and this body as well, though he falsified feelings (as I know it).
            I also cannot accept, that what I think and feel is not real. I might as well admit that I’m not real myself. Would I be nullifying this part of my life? It is impossible. Should I go crazy? Recognize that I am a hologram of another mind? 😊 From here there is a straight path to nihilism, solipsism and other philosophies, that are interesting as concepts, but which do not correspond to me completely. Not. It is not so. I am what I think and feel. What I was thinking and feeling was real. End. Dot. I put myself as a reference point. And I believe, that each person can only relate to himself.

            And from the union of our minds and our bodies, a new mind and body arose. Autonomous. Thats true.

            Feelings are the most subjective, they are actually easy to fake. But my own feelings are real to me. They are an essential part of my life. And that’s important to me.

            Even now, as soon as we were both pretending, my emotions were real. I allowed myself to release them for a while. I let myself believe for a moment. Knowing it wouldn’t take long (and so much longer than I assumed).

            Can a true thesis arise on semi-false premises?
            Is subjective truth more important than objective truth?

            Knowing HG – a separate forum. I bought the material, but I don’t even go in there. It makes me curious, but I don’t have time for another thing – or selfishly – I don’t need it that much 😊 Maybe someday.

            TS, I’m happy with your last paragraph. You seem to be self-confident too (not about sparkling in the world, but about your own self). This is important. Especially for a woman – we are very much responsible for shaping our children, new individuals in society.

            Ah, I wish my daughter would get that confidence already. For now she has achieved a state of confidence with me (!), which manifests itself in various undesirable situations towards me, but okay, I’m patiently waiting for her now unstable “me” to form a stable and wonderful formation. She won’t have to attack, because she will feel good about herself. I dream about it 😊

            Life is a constant work on yourself, right? This place is a good training ground. I agree.

            Sorry, another “loose” elaborate came out…

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Thank you for writing, I am very drawn in by the way you look at things, you always make me think.

            The first thing that struck me was your narc telling you that he could never live up to your illusion of him. I can very much understand and imagine your response to that. My narc said something very similar. “I could never be what you hoped I was.” That still haunts me sometimes. It’s a half truth, which is why it gets under our skin I think. In my case, it had the desired effect. I tried to explain that that wasn’t the case, no doubt supplying him with plenty of fuel as I did so. Mission accomplished for him, very well done! It is funny though how narcs trot out similar lines.

            When I read your thoughts on your narc and to an extent narcs in general, you made me remember a quote from a film I watched many years ago. “I would rather have just thirty minutes of wonderful, than a lifetime of nothing special.” I can’t disagree with that quote, so in essence, I don’t disagree with your thinking.
            The golden period is an illusion, but, the way we feel during that golden period is wonderful and those feelings are genuine. If we looked only at the golden period and asked ourselves, “Does it matter that this is an illusion? I’m happy, all of my own feelings are real, does it matter that I’m living in a false reality created by my narcissist?” Instinctively, I would say yes it does matter. It’s a con, I’m being manipulated and there is no substance behind the illusion. In reality though with the added input from my own Emotional Thinking, if I’m honest, does it really matter? Does it actually? I’m feeling, I’m experiencing, I am genuine. We don’t see the thoughts in the narcissists head, at least not clearly. We see the actions and if I feel loved, does it matter that I’m not truly loved?

            I think our views about the golden period are tied in part to how we view our alternatives. Again here you and I appear similar but we come at it from different directions. I think your view ( apologies if I am putting words in your mouth incorrectly) is that your needs are best fulfilled by a narcissist. Life with a non narc or an empath appears grey to you, devoid of colour and excitement.

            For me, I look at the non narc differently. A non narc might not put his partner through a sustained devaluation or subject them to physical or mental abuse, but a non narc is very capable of disrespect when the time is right. Non narc couples fall out of love and end relationships every single day. So how is a normal failed relationship different to the end of the golden period? HG’s article ‘Along Came A Spider’ is a fair representation. Society got narcissistic, me first, you later. Romance I’m afraid, is officially dead. I am disappointed every single day by the behaviour of people towards each other. That’s what’s out there. That’s real life and these people are not all narcissists either. Statistically, that’s simply not possible.

            If I look back on all the places I have lived, and couples I have known. Throughout the entirety of my life to date I can only point to one relationship that I view as being a perfect match, true love. Just the one, a second I view as being pretty good. With a conservative estimate of me having realistic knowledge of one hundred couples throughout my life to date, that puts the odds of finding a relationship that I view as being desirable at 1%. Those aren’t great odds! Some might say I have unrealistic expectations, that might be the case, but they are still my expectations. If Mr 1% is off the table then, what I am left with essentially is a trade off situation. I can have this but must be willing to lose that. Here, you and I draw closer together I think. In effect your view of your narcissist is also a trade off.

            Where you and I differ is in the area of what comes next, after the golden period, or after those intermittent moments of apparent connection. For me, the golden period with the narcissist comes at too high a price. The devaluation, the sense of loss, those lost days where we sink into emotion, the systematic and callous rejection, the verbal onslaught, emotional abuse and in many cases far more besides, is too much to pay for an illusion.

            My pride also kicks in at this point where my inner voice says to the narcissist, “And who are you to cast me to one side?” In this way for me, narcs are not an option.

            This doesn’t necessarily mean that I view non narcs as the holy grail though. I won’t be with a narc, but that doesn’t automatically mean that I view non narcs as an attractive alternative either. For me, I think I have come to the point of acceptance that my contentment and happiness will be derived from friends, family, my children and from within myself. Doing things I enjoy, such as travelling, staying fit etc. Acceptance sails dangerously close to resignation though, which coincidentally is where I was at before the narc showed up masquerading as Mr 1%! As my ET falls, I appear to revert back to type it seems.

            I do see what you are driving at Joa. Relationships do appear to be about trade offs. You are either willing to trade or you aren’t. The problem with the narcissist is that the trade off will always be a threat to control. They won’t accept the terms of the deal. What you think you are getting will start to become far less, your currency will buy fewer moments of perceived connection and cost greater periods of pain, abuse and heartbreak. In the end, it’s the empath that pays the highest price, never the narcissist.

            Emotional Thinking through interaction with the narcissist clouds our thinking to an immeasurable extent. When my Emotional Thinking was at its height, I didn’t know what I wanted or what I was prepared to accept. There are many alternative paths for many different empaths, once we wriggle free from the narcissist’s influence. Those who dream of a fulfilling relationship with a non narc might well find it, who knows? Someone has to find the golden ticket! Others might get out and find contentment elsewhere, others might still opt for the 30 minutes of wonderful.

            Whichever way we look at it though, the narcissist can’t be seen as a long term proposition. Where there is devaluation, there
            has to be an end to a relationship, for me at least. I think it is worth asking yourself the question, is all of this missing someone, the replaying, reliving, trading and compromising, really worth it? If this is the cycle that you will be in for the rest of your life, is this really what you want?

            There are no guarantees. A very wise man once said, “If you want a guarantee, buy a washing machine.” He’s right. Post narcissist, we can’t guarantee that we will find happiness elsewhere. We can make sure though that we aren’t devalued. When that line is crossed, it’s time to go.


          6. Leigh says:

            TS, I loved that movie. Shelby, played by Julia Roberts, is talking to her Momma, played by Sally Field. The movie is Steel Magnolias. Its one of my favorites! No doubt, that line was written by a narcissist.

            I wanted to jump in because when I think about my 30 minutes of wonderful, none of tbem include my narc husband. My life is boring and humdrum. For me, the opposite is true. I can’t wait for the day that I meet a normal or an empath. Maybe they will actually have life experiences and be interesting.

            I do also want to say that I have experienced the 30 minutes of wonderful. My children being born is included in there. I also experienced it with workplace narc. The bear hugs and him kissing the small of my back. Fireworks! Was the couple of minutes of wonderful, worth it? I don’t think so because the love I felt for him wasn’t reciprocated. I look back on it fondly but I wouldn’t want that again. I didn’t like the pain I felt in the end. With my narc husband, when it ends, I won’t feel that pain because there was never fireworks to begin with.

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            Correct haha! I love Julia Roberts, she’s genuine. Yes, that scene and that line stayed with me. Probably because I agreed with it, even though I was muuuuch younger when I saw it!

            Agree, the MMRA Somatic would never make the cut for candidates in the 30 mins of wonderful lineup.

            Online narc was very different. He would be a contender for the 30 minutes and for various reasons. Contrast being one I think. When life is not going great, a person doesn’t always have to do that much to look good.

            Also agree. If I had a time machine I’d definitely go back to the births of both my kids. It’s the most exciting and unique experience, a real mix of emotions.

            For me, it’s difficult to say if I would make the same choice again in the same situation as regards the online MMRB. All I can say is, illusion or no illusion, I very much needed him at the time he arrived. I can’t say for sure if I would have been better off without him showing up at all. I can say for sure, given he is a narcissist, getting out later and at the time I did, was the right choice. Sooner or later it has to hurt. This is true. I just think I was better equipped to deal with his hurt later rather than the original hurt sooner.


          8. Leigh says:

            TS, workplace narc came at a time when I needed him too. Hes also an important piece of my puzzle. Hes the reason I did a Google search on why won’t he text me back and then eventually found Narcsite.

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