The Narcissist´s Rejection of Love
In the dimly lit chamber, where shadows danced upon the crumbling walls, I stand before you, a harbinger of disdain for that wretched notion called love. With every word that drips from my venomous tongue, I shall unravel the intricacies of this cursed emotion, revealing the putrid core that lies beneath its deceptive guise.
Love, they say, is a force that binds souls together, entwining them in a web of passion and devotion. But I, dear listeners, have peeled back the layers of this delusion, and what lies beneath is a grotesque mockery of reason and sanity.
Love, with its tendrils of desire, ensnares the unwary like a venomous serpent, injecting its toxic elixir into their veins. It distorts perception, blinding the eyes to the flaws and shortcomings of the beloved, creating an illusion of perfection where none exists. It is a cruel trick, a masquerade of emotions that lures the innocent into its clutches, leaving them vulnerable and bereft of reason.
In the name of love, sanity is forsaken, boundaries are shattered, and souls are laid bare. It is a maddening dance, where the heart leads, and the mind is but a feeble servant. Reason is cast aside, and in its place, a whirlwind of irrationality reigns supreme. How can one trust an emotion that blinds, that distorts, that consumes every fiber of one’s being?
But it is not only the blindness that love inflicts that stirs my contempt. No, there is a deeper, more sinister aspect to this abomination. Love breeds dependency, a sickening reliance on another for one’s own happiness and sense of self. It reduces individuals to mere fragments of their former selves, clinging desperately to the whims and affections of another.
Oh, the lengths to which people will go in the name of love. They sacrifice their dreams, their ambitions, and their very souls, all in a futile attempt to please their beloved. They become slaves to their own emotions, trapped in a never-ending cycle of desire and despair.
And what do they gain from this self-imposed servitude? Heartache, betrayal, and the crushing weight of unfulfilled expectations. Love is a cruel mistress, toying with the hearts of its victims, leaving them broken and shattered in its wake. It whispers sweet promises, only to snatch them away with a devilish grin, leaving naught but emptiness and despair.
So, I stand before you, my dear listeners, a voice in the darkness, proclaiming my contempt for love. It is a plague upon the human spirit, a deception that wraps its tendrils around the hearts of the unsuspecting. Beware its siren song, for in its wake, it leaves nothing but a trail of shattered souls and shattered dreams. Embrace reason, embrace autonomy, and cast aside the chains of this wretched emotion.
In the dark recesses of the heart, where shadows dance with desire, love emerges as a deceptive specter, cloaked in its seductive charm. Ah, love, the treacherous muse that haunts the souls of the unsuspecting, leading them astray upon a winding path of despair and longing. As I stand here, amidst the crumbling ruins of other´s shattered dreams, I bear witness to the tragedy that is love’s cruel game.
Love, with its tendrils of obsidian, weaves a tapestry of illusions, ensnaring the unwary in its intricate web. It whispers sweet promisesluring the desperate souls who dare to venture near. Oh, how it disguises itself in the semblance of joy, wrapping its tendrils around the heart, squeezing tighter with each passing moment. It blinds you to the truth, transforming reality into a distorted reflection of your desires.
In the dimly lit corridors of a decaying castle, love’s deceitful presence looms, casting long shadows upon the crumbling walls. Like a Gothic novel’s protagonist, you find yourself caught in a swirling tempest of emotions, tormented by a love that is both exhilarating and agonizing. It tempts you with fleeting moments of ecstasy, only to snatch them away with a cruel, mocking laugh.
With each step you take through this labyrinth of emotions, love becomes a monstrous apparition, a creature of darkness that feasts upon the vulnerability of the human heart. Its touch is cold, its embrace suffocating, as it engulfs the soul in a vortex of passion and despair. It renders you helpless, prisoners of your own desires, as you yearn for a love that may never be.
Yet, despite the torment, you willingly surrender yourselves to its enchantment, for love is the opium that numbs your senses and dulls your reason. You become enamored with the idea of love, craving its intoxicating embrace, even as it consumes you from within. Its tendrils tighten, shackling your hearts and minds, leaving you gasping for breath in its suffocating grip.
As the moon casts its ghostly glow upon these desolate grounds, I stand as a testament to love’s malevolence. My heart, a hollow chamber filled with echoes of shattered promises and broken dreams, bears witness to the tragedy that unfolds when love misleads. Love, the deceptive seductress, dances upon the fragments of you, leaving you forever haunted by its beauty.
So, dear listener, take heed of this cautionary tale. Beware the allure of love, for its ethereal beauty masks a darkness that can consume you whole. For once you succumb to its enchantment, you may find yourself lost in a labyrinth of longing, forever ensnared in love’s choking embrace.
44 thoughts on “The Narcissist´s Rejection of Love”
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A very honest assessment of the emotion. Lesson 1 BEWARE Do know harm
#2 Remain permanently reasonable & realistic vs beguiled
#3 Respect & guard your inner Truth & Peace
I hear the depth of your words and the weight of the pain you’ve encountered, but I want to share with you the truth about love—not the distorted version that wounds and deceives, but the pure, unshakable love that comes only from God.
Love in this world often fails because it is flawed, conditional, and rooted in human imperfection. But God’s love is different—it is perfect, selfless, and never failing:
“God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.” (1 John 4:16)
The love you speak of—the one that binds, deceives, and destroys—is not true love at all. It is a counterfeit, a shadow of what love was meant to be. True love does not come from the desperate grasping of another soul, nor from illusions of passion—it is found in surrender, in relinquishing control, in allowing God to reveal His love in us.
“There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” (1 John 4:18)
The suffering that love has brought to so many is not because love itself is cruel, but because humans try to define love apart from its Source. Love is not obsession, control, or dependency—it is sacrifice, truth, and freedom. It is God Himself, and He showed us this love fully through Jesus:
“But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
The brokenness you describe—the shattered dreams, the pain of unmet expectations, the hollow feeling left behind—comes from placing faith in human love rather than in God’s love. Only when we surrender our longing, our control, and our expectations to Him can we truly experience love as it was meant to be.
love is not a prison—it is the very thing that sets us free. But only God’s love can do that.
“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)
I pray you find that love, the one that heals instead of wounds, restores instead of breaks, and strengthens instead of weakens. It is waiting for you—not in the hands of another, but in the arms of the One who has loved you since before the foundation of the world.
You don’t have to be trapped in love’s deception. You can be free in love’s truth—and that truth is found in Jesus Christ.
I will be praying with you too, for the comfort, peace and joy to enter his heart from the Holy Spirit
I agree with you completely as an absolute believer but God created narcisstic psychopaths, narcissists and psychopaths too….
It’s always the same question is it mental illness or is it evil? I fluctuate on that question depending on the case/person.
Same Contagious, I fluctuate depending. I think i mostly land at, it’s a mental illness which creates evil in those afflicted by it.
But AV, HG is a narcissistic psychopath. He does good for all those on the blog and through his YouTube channels. He gives to charities.
Do his reasons for why being self-serving alter that he is helping people get out of abusive situations? HG has said that he advised a partner of a narcissist who went on to kill, and that person escaped.
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t also do many horrible things (to his intimate partners during devaluation) and others.
Were we to put the abuses he has meted out against some of those who’ve been in his personal life on one side of a scale and the good he has done through his work as HG Tudor and professional work (from the sounds of it)…would they balance out?
We don’t know HG’s victims personally…if we came to know and care for them and learned how HG had been in their life, would that change our perception of him (after he helped us with a problematic person in our lives)? What if someone new to his work, trying to escape a narcissist, found him and recognized his voice as that of a boyfriend to a close friend of theirs? What impact would it have on them and their ability to interact with his work?
Hi Dani,
I wasn’t aiming my comment at HG specifically. i will say that he himself has called himself a bad man, he had to convince me of that at once point. The good he does as a result of meeting his own prime aims is not measurable against the bad he’s done elsewhere. We have no way to measure it and in my mind, just because a person has a good outcome for some people, because of choices he’s made for himself, this cannot offset evil done in other areas. Don’t get me wrong, I love HG and what he’s done for myself and many others, but I also acknowledge the truth about him. My preference, rather than debating good vs evil in a narcissist, would be to find a cure so that people can actually choose to be good. Which of course opens a whole nother can of worms.
But AV, HG doesn’t want a cure. Most narcissists don’t view themselves as problematic. (They only say so as a manipulation.) They think they are good. I think their narcissism would protect them from choosing a cure.
You are correct Dani. The idea of a cure wasn’t the point of my reply to your first comment.
Hi A Victoria
Very good take!
Forgot to add: God makes no mistakes. We don’t know . But think of the great design we do know, Earth and our scientists suggest there are about 2 trillion galaxies in the observable universe. Each galaxy can contain billions to trillions of stars. For example, our Milky Way galaxy has around 100 to 400 billion stars.
When it comes to planets, it’s estimated that there are more planets than stars in our galaxy alone. In the Milky Way, there could be over 100 billion planets. This means that across all galaxies, the number of planets is likely in the trillions, if not more!
In summary:
– **Galaxies:** ~2 trillion
– **Stars:** ~100 billion to 400 billion in the Milky Way; trillions across all galaxies
– **Planets:** Likely trillions across the universe.
Based on my dreams of a best friend who passed who keeps telling me, I could not begin to know. Th concept of eternity and the hat we do know, I say it again there is some reason narcissism sm exists. We just do not know. And HG breaks it down to unstable environment plus genes. But most people have some instability in childhood, divorce is over 50%, so I heavily lean to genes. I have even read articles about psychopaths being aliens lol Anyway most of the human brain is not scientifically known but we know differences exist. Time will maybe shed light on the whys….but I don’t think we truly know. HG is the best as he produces exemplary traits to spot one. And while God is the answer He has not yet given us a cure ….yet we can pray. Why knows …
Hello Beth, I hope this finds you well.
Beth wrote: “True love does not come from the desperate grasping of another soul, nor from illusions of passion—it is found in surrender, in relinquishing control, in allowing God to reveal His love in us.”
You write “true love does not come from desperate grasping of another soul” and yet within your logic “God reveals His love in us” based upon a condition of surrendering and relinquishing control to Him. Which is indeed a grasping for another soul. Condition based act and demand.
Beth wrote: “The suffering that love has brought to so many is not because love itself is cruel, but because humans try to define love apart from its Source. Love is not obsession, control, or dependency—it is sacrifice, truth, and freedom.”
No one needs to sacrifice if there is freedom. Sacrifice is the opposite of freedom. Sacrifice is the opposite of truth and they can’t coexist either. Sacrifice is only made when truth is missing.
Beth wrote: “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)”
How convenient to place the responsibility on the shoulders of someone else and continuing to do so.
Beth wrote: “The brokenness you describe—the shattered dreams, the pain of unmet expectations, the hollow feeling left behind—comes from placing faith in human love rather than in God’s love. Only when we surrender our longing, our control, and our expectations to Him can we truly experience love as it was meant to be. Love is not a prison—it is the very thing that sets us free. But only God’s love can do that.”
The very prison you speak of is the belief that “only God’s love can do that.” Faith in human love is God’s greatest gift to us and it’s called Free Will. By granting us Free Will, God doesn’t place Himself above us as that act would take away his gift of love.
Faith in human love is a source which connects to God directly. And seeing humans through God’s eyes — means to have faith in their love and knowing that they are strong enough to figure out the greatest power of Free Will they were granted which is equal to the power of love which doesn’t bind. God’s love doesn’t bind, doesn’t ask of us to be this or that. The total freedom He gives us is the foundation of his perfect Creation.
Beth wrote: “I pray you find that love, the one that heals instead of wounds, restores instead of breaks, and strengthens instead of weakens. It is waiting for you—not in the hands of another, but in the arms of the One who has loved you since before the foundation of the world.”
God doesn’t separate himself from those He created, viewing them as weaker. He is not demanding from us to give up on each other as it would be a very unloving act. You might need to pray for yourself first and not for those you place yourself above thinking you’re better in some way and they’re lacking. That has nothing to do with love or God’s faith which is unshakable in his Creation.
“You don’t have to be trapped in love’s deception. You can be free in love’s truth—and that truth is found in Jesus Christ.”
Love has many faces and not just that of Jesus Christ. Your eyes look upon the One you’ve put on a pedestal. Jesus has nothing to do with that manipulation you and others continue to perform. Jesus said many wise things. Worshiping him as the only source of truth was not what he spoke about.
Hi, Beth–
I’ve never understood the mechanics of how Jesus was supposed to work. I write this as a former believer. I was taught that God was love and (depending on the confession) that Jesus was co-existent with the Creator but somehow also human, and that the Holy Spirit was also co-existent, or emanated from God the Father, or maybe Jesus, or something. It all depended on who you asked. I found out later that it was a feature of Latin and some potential misunderstandings that caused the whole Filioque controversy. So much for eternal perfection.
But I could never understand how Jesus had anything to do with whatever love is supposed to be, or with truth. With time and consideration, I began to think he was like so many other itinerant preachers of that time and place, that he ran afoul of the authorities, and was therefore put to death as so many were by crucifixion. Just considering the raw elements of the story. I could never genuinely in my bones put together how that was supposed to say anything about love, even when I was in the church. I just didn’t get it.
Allison,
I found your thoughts interesting…
You describe yourself as a “former believer” while saying that you “just didn’t get it.” I don’t understand how those can both be true.
1. If you never really understood even whilst attending church, how do you call yourself a former believer in Christianity?
2. Do you have spiritual beliefs or beliefs today?
3. To what extent do you think that faith requires full understanding?
Thank you!
Hi there, Dani–
When I was in the church I always felt I’d get along with “Doubting Thomas”. I wanted some proof I could touch. I believed, but I didn’t understand. It was emotional and illogical. When I pressed on how salvation actually worked I was usually warned from thinking about it or was told it was A Mystery. I was encouraged not to expect logic; that it didn’t make sense meant it was true.
Another thing that pushed me out, which I didn’t have words for at the time, was that the whole affair was absolutely swimming with narcissism. The Book, the faith, the laity, the priests, the preachers–all of it. Good people were the worst, especially those repentant sinners.
(That forbidden Tree of Knowledge thing bugged me, too.)
1. My belief was an emotional froth whipped up out of fear of eternal damnation. With a guilt cherry. I left the faith behind, so I’m an apostate. Worse than a heathen.
2. I have things I believe about life and existence because I can’t research or directly know everything. Many of those things I believe must be false. But my goal is to believe as few false things as possible. If by “spiritual” you mean supernatural, no. I don’t hold that the supernatural is impossible, but there is no evidence for anything above or beyond nature that I find convincing. I could be called a naturalist, but I’m not a materialist.
3. That’s tricky. One reason I lost my belief in Christianity was because I couldn’t understand the central tenets. But, many people report being committed Christians and they claim to gain faith because they don’t understand(“…lean not on your own understanding.”) It seems people can believe and have faith without understanding, and are encouraged to do so.
Allison–
Thank you so much for answering.
“I have things I believe about life and existence because I can’t research or directly know everything. Many of those things I believe must be false.” — What sorts of things? What proof is required to your mind? Have you experienced anything you couldn’t truly prove but you believe to be true? Did you find evidence that satisfied you, if it might not satisfy others?
Hi, Dani–
I won’t try to globally catalogue my beliefs; not my blog. But my basic worldview begins with the belief that there is a reality that is external to me and that is independent of my mind. I can’t prove this in an all encompassing or direct way. The evidence that has convinced me of this was primarily based on my life of sensory experience and later fortified by classical physics. But it’s my origin point, a basic belief, that can’t be demonstrated directly and with absolute certainty. Of course, this is all backward looking.
A demon once chased me at a bus stop in downtown Fort Worth. I had a certain experience. That was my belief. But that made less sense than the subsequent proven fact that I was out of my ever loving mind at the time. My belief was false.
Thank you, Allison.
Hey Allison:
Hope all is well and hello Beth!
I just think Jesus set a high bar…
1. Love thy enemies. When on the cross after being tortured and dying…He said to God. “Forgive them they don’t know what they do.” Ummm not sure I would have that ability and I find it tough sometimes to forgive those who wronged me. In fact I am suing 4 billion dollar corporations personally with glee.
2. Jesus loved children. Let them come to me, and this was during a time children were treated like lesser adults
3. He didn’t like it he tax collectors. lol He favored the poor, the oppressed, the sick, and the meek. He didn’t favor the wealthy/rulers.
4. Jesus accepted and loved those society rejected. He washed the feet of a prostitute. He stopped the rocks aimed at an adulteress. He told a murderer and a thief that their sins could be forgiven. I think he shocked people with his kindness, love and compassion. Imagine if he reappeared today those who would be accepted. His message was love, kindness, acceptance and forgiveness but of all: love and kindness.
He was the Prince of Peace.
There were many that followed him. His message. And today it’s the world’s number one religion. But PEOPLE ruin it as we know in and out of religion. I don’t think you can blame the church anymore than you can blame those outside of it.
We have a personal choice to make and I believe everyone’s choice should be respected even if we disagree. After all no one lives our lives but us and the choices we make are born by us and us alone. Live and let be;)
Great comment Contagious. I especially appreciated the final paragraph.
Not trying to pry, feel free to say none of my business, just wondering if you have any Savior in your mix? I am predominantly Savior and find much of the faith aspect of life second nature. Likely not true for all with a lot of Savior, not saying that. Just thought I’d ask since you say a lot that i think also.
Hi Victor and thank you for your kind words.. only here do I admit my inner truth except those who truly know me. And my kids will roll their eyes. I am not generally preachyon religion
I do haves small percent of super, matyr and something else savior. And these are very very very small , like 6% to 1% and contextual I think very very very small. Contagion and carrier I relate to both . I do love Marty’s and see them as my hero’s. I would say as a lawyer and in my soul…. I hate injustice. I get what HG says about balance. I always want the light, to rise above the wave, the dark. To correct wrongs, to make right if I can in small ways and in my practice. As I am Christian, I ask God every night to take my hand and lead me. I would say love and God motive me but deep deep inside it’s justice. I don’t know where it comes from in the same way I don’t know why I dream the way I do. Others see it. I spent a girls weekend in Hollywood and at bars I had lines to tell me their problems and I don’t even advertise I am a lawyer. There’s a lot of anger and suffering and I just do my best. One by one. What’s hard is if I need someone. Not many to find that I can truly seek but I am lucky as I have my mother and friends, one very powerful and smart. Some say I am too kind and used. Not true. Yes I have been burnt but on a whole I have found when you give you receive. Love expands. It’s not a limited source. What’s the meaning of life? Love which means kindness…
Victor: in rethinking. I have no idea where HG gets his categories or why. His example of Contagian Meets the Darkness or his example made me feel he was living my life. Read my mind. Carrier is duh obvious, I am a lawyer. I think if he explained more why he thinks we are what he describes it would help. So far, only the origins of co-dependent have been addressed and narcs and psychopaths. But I would love to hear more from the Ultra! HG has a specific categorization. Based on what? Dying to know….i mean how does he spot a contagion? I didn’t take the empath detector and in 5 minutes he strongly suspected? So quick! And his blogs and videos so far hit home. I had 6% super and I don’t see it. No magnet. I don’t know. He has trade secrets. I just would like to know more….hint hint if you read this HG….
Thank you for the replies Contagious.
Thank you, Contagious–
People can and will believe whatever they like. Many have found hope and strength in the Christian message, and I do appreciate many of the cultural aspects of the Judeo-Christian scheme, especially as compared to certain other religious systems. But, it’s under the sway of a brood of vipers, and our goals don’t sensibly align any longer.
But Christianity is not, in my view, some divine world that is somehow perfect but for the people. In my view, it was invented by people and is sustained by people, and it is therefore prone to any of the other pros and cons of human systems. For me, there was a particular type of tyranny of The Good People that it rewarded, and it brooked no argument. I found it a problem for satisfactory living. It was a narcissistic system through and through–filled with magical thinking, gaslighting, threats, manipulation and the ultimate 2000 year silent treatment. And for all its otherworldly talk it loved my money more than it loved me while claiming the opposite.
For those who have found good in it for themselves and are at home in their congregations, I wish them well. I do miss regular infusions of the delicious trappings of orthodoxy. Love those icons and all those bells. Byzantine chant was great for my voice.
Here is my take: The popular mythos that grew up around the historic person is quite extensive. About all we can say with any certainty is that Jesus got on the radar of the wrong people, threatened the control of the state, and the Rome of the first century did what Rome tended to do about that. Not because he was special but because he was ordinary enough to be put down by the machine of the state. There was one response of the empire to apostolic prophets claiming (or charged with claiming) to be kings. The rest is the propagation of the hallucination of one man, and the whole thing likely would have fallen apart into its small, localized Gnostic groups were it not for Constantine’s use of it for realpolitik. I don’t know if the Big Kahuna was a narcissist himself, but I think it’s likely knowing how charismatic leaders generally work. So, in that the whole thing just might be true to original form. But it’s not for me.
Hello Allison:
I respect your truth. I encourage you to read The Case For Christ. At least you recognize he existed in history. For me, it’s not the Bible, it’s not the church. I feel comfortable in Catholic, Anglican, and Protestant religion etc… not all. Anywhere they believe Jesus. I was a twice a week goer in law school and college and attended weekly as a child. Went to Catechism . Was confirmed. Was baptized. I ran out of the room hearing about the saints and how they were tortured. Barthemelow was the worst. I attended Bible meetings in the Old Testament and didn’t see the Jesus message and God he spoke of. If you saw a demon, I believe you. I have heard others say so. Scary But I was told Satan attracts those God favors….the strong… if I believe you, try to believe me. When I was 11, sleeping one lazy afternoon, smelling fresh grown grass, I felt a hand in my shoulder. I woke up. I wasn’t dreaming and I felt it hard. I then heard the following …Here is the well-known “Peace Prayer of Saint Francis,” which reflects his spirit of humility and service:
—
**Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.**
**O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek…
It hit my core. My soul creed. Because of that and my crazy dreams, I became a true believer. I saw my murdered best friends time of death in clocks. Confirmed only when I went to her murder trial. HG says coincidence. I have had too many dreams to believe that. My friend appears to me throughout the 18 years she was killed. She says I cannot even begin to understand after death. There is so much I don’t know. She last appeared this month wearing a sort of white judicial cloak. I said “ you are dead, and practicing law? She said “ it’s not like here, you would not understand but it’s a form of law.” I think there are deep truths. Love being one of them which includes kindness, compassion, forgiveness, unity….Justice. A balanced. I believe in Christ and his words. But Jesus words, as a lot is just words in a book that are historical. I believe that God appeared in other religions too. Look at the timeline. Where there is love, there’s God. I also believe He works through people with love. Where there is love , there is God. This external…could it be? Describe the “ external.” The design of the planet, human life, space, planets, galaxies, even humans cannot understand most of the brain….it takes as much effort to believe than to disbelieve the unknown… for me, I know. I have had too many inexplicable dreams that in consciousness make me a believer and I physically felt it. Christ was either a madman or true. I am totally nuts or true in what I have experienced. But we all stand from where we sit. You are entitled to be respected and heard on your truth:)
Alison: I hear what you are saying… I do. And who would not disagree with what some of the Catholic priests did to boys ( and some girls). I agree with you of course. I have an ex, a devoted Catholic leave the church over it. And my neighbor was an investigator for a class action attorney who stopped sending his girls to the Catholic Church. But pinpoint me one word of Jesus that isn’t correct. Just one. The worst is when Luke said in the New Teatament that is one hurt a young child, they should put a millstone over their neck and die in the sea. His follower suggested child offenders should kill themselves which might suggest Jesus agreed. So if you see him as a man, do you agree we should love our enemies? Does reparation sound good for you? I just read a book by Coline Covington 2018 called Evik which addresses mainly collective narcissism from hitler, to pol pot to Rwanda and Isis and she disagrees with Jesus message ( she is a non-believer but apparently agrees he existed) as helpful to psychoanalysis. She caps narcs “nobodies@ as they have a false self and no empathy. To her to be a person you must have self loc and the ability to put yourself in another’s shoes to be a “ somebody .” She says it’s a fallacy for narcs to love their neighbor let alone a stranger., This is probably true but you does say the concept would bring a harmony by and less civil unrest. Even atheists have said Christianity’s message is good for society. But to me, it’s love. God is love and he shows up in many religions and I accept them as God. I was just raised in the New Testament so I follow Jesus. To me, it is man who hates perverts the religion. So who do you follow? Your own moral code? Morality too in humans is perverted by humans and what is moral in one place is immoral in others. Think about the age of marriage.,Or ISIS belief to me ur own. at the end of the end of the day, I chose Jesus, the prince of peace, for his love, understanding, comfort passion and kindness, not the church who preaches him. And I am FAR from perfect. Just a message that I do my best. What I never get is all the whys? Why did God allow narcissism and psychopathy? Why is the world cruel, unjust, unfair? He gave us freewill? But why the choices do some chose? Anyway, I apologize if I offended you in some of my passionate responses. I actually like you and respect you even if we disagree. I hope you can forgive me for any offensive words I said:) I have felt bad about it. I have found that only gen my anger is pount d at justice is it ok. You are not that person so sorry.
There are things about Jesus which resonate with me and there are others which don’t because they contradict themselves. And the question to consider is: Who wrote down what Jesus said? When was it written down (ca 300 years later after his time)? Who translated it and adopted it for the Zeitgeist or (re)interpreted it? The originals are different, there can be a different meaning to them in some instances. There are still Evangelions by different authors hidden in the libraries of the Vatican and other places, why? What do they consist of? And last but not least why does some random guy play such a pivotal role in the shaping of historical events and shaping of a collective psyche and yet he couldn’t be eradicated?!
And yet even the simplest accessible little things which Jesus said or did are remarkable if I unpack what lies behind his words and actions. The seemingly naive “I and the Father are one” unlock a universe of wisdoms! First of all it tells me that his contagion connectivity went beyond an ordinary one. Secondly, he demonstrated the authority (in those barbaric times) to state as such, to state it as an authorised offspring of the Creator, who is a simple flesh and bones like everybody else, not separating himself from his divine origin nor from his simple human status, not making the physical form into an obstacle for experiencing the connectivity to the Creator and His marvelous Creation all around us (by Creation I refer to the mother-father aspect of Nature and the eternal love of life in all its manifestations, physical and non physical). Combine it with “God created man in his own image” and you get a hint of what a “mortal” man/woman is all about and what lies ahead when they claim authority on the level of Jesus’ demonstration. And then (!) he sealed the truth with the resurrection act by demonstrating that death of the physical form is just a temporary state and even the physical form can transcend to an extent through barriers we’re told are finite. There must have been witnesses to this last act which went beyond the numbers of what we were told. Simply because the resurrection evidence couldn’t be brushed off by the opponents as disciples’ drug trip. The opponents intent was to prove to humans of the opponents power and ability to captivate Jesus and disempower his message. And they failed. The witnesses were too many so the resurrection act burned itself in their memory and made the rounds and had to be taken into account for the story which then again was twisted to the liking of the ruling system — “Sure, you can rise like Jesus BUT do as I say first and then you maybe go to heaven or to hell. Do as I say; serve as I say and you shall go to heaven”.
Because ask yourself; why is it still the image of Jesus — nailed to the cross — church’s favorite and go to symbol for Jesus?! Why do people wear the symbol of punishment around their neck and on their altars?! And not the symbol of the resurrected, powerful Christ?! Could it be because the church needed re-traumatisation and fear of the punishment of the physical form in order to control people, to make them pay for their (imagined) sins?! Jesus’ message of “You are redeemed from your sins (illusions) by design, there is no need for mortification, stop castigating yourself, you are free and your original purpose is to have a choice to rise, which you forgot and I’m here to remind you” — went into the ether and people focused on his martyr act (as an example to follow) instead and not on his final act of freedom which followed after. The martyr act was just a stepping stone to demonstrate the aftermath.
However his final message can’t go hand in hand with the need for control of those who place themselves as mankind’s oppressors. Collectively, unconsciously and in certain instances knowingly and consciously. Why? Where has it begun? The purpose of it all and the learned lesson…
In reality there is such depth to Jesus and his alike and what they were trying to achieve. It’s mind boggling…
Hello dear Jordyguin, read the Case For Christ. It has historians… Roman’s and Jewish scholars wrote about him at the time. 30 years later those who knew him like Mark, Paul eyewitnesses wrote. Mark write at 70. 40 years after Christs death. Matthew and Luke witnessed him and wrote about him in their 80s. Mark was in his 50s, witnessed Christ and events and wrote about Christ 30 years later…
Unlike Alexander the Great who was recorded 400 years later but who challenges he existed. ??? Papias Adizs AD 180. Christ crucified 30 AD. Damascus wrote about his resurrection 2-5 years later. Tacticus in his history of Rome wrote about Jesus in AD 116. Remember paper was scarce then, oral history was the norm. Josephus wrote of Christ in the first century in his The Jewish v Roman War.” Born Ad 37. He was critical calling him a priest with a big ego. Talks about Pilates crucifying Christ. Muhammad AD 472. Dead Sea scrolls record Christ. Pliny the Elder. Philoostatus 150 years later.
Why did Homers the Iliad sell 650 copies in 80O BC but the New Testament sold 5000 New Testament copies? Manuscripts in Eygpt 300 AD speak of Christ. Gospel of John was 100 AD. 98 years after Christ died. Gospel of Thomas 114 AD. Nicodemus, Barnabes, Bathelonew, Andrew. Bishop of Syria 117 Ad. There’s more.
Most historians recognize Jesus Iived. The Talmud refers to him as a heretic and or sorcerer AD 200. There was a rebellion and he was crucified. End of. He lived. Rebelled. Crucified.
Son of God? Debated. Then you go to psychologists. What was he was lsaying, doing at the time. was he mad? But plenty of evidence shows he was not insane. They look at what he did, what he said, his relationship to others. His dress. Umm spoke well, good relations, no bloated ego despite masses following him, balanced despite demands cried at Lazarus his friends death, angry at tax collectors who oppressed people, , etc… what’s written didn’t seem like a lunatic.
Would masses follow a loon?
Finally why is Christianity today in existence? Number one in the world? Why did it grow? Others died. Like Gnosticism…
And he was violently tortured by Roman expert killers Leather balls were used on whips to rip your skin off. Spikes 4-7 feet long. Broke the two legs of criminals next to Jesus to speed the death up not Christ. And yet those write who witnessed “Forgive them they know not what they do?” That’s the story… ? That was the logic behind those who witnessed it, loved him and write about him? Would that be your first thought to write?
He was either an extraordinary man or the son of God. He was either mad or telling his truth. Those who follow him like his message very much or believe.
It’s a personal choice. Left to each all.
In case HG publishes, the voice saying St Francis prayer was heard in my head. It could al have been some semi conscious experienced dream too. I don’t know.
Thank you for the book recommendation, love! Sorry, I wasn’t specific but I was referring to the compilation and canonization of the writings into what we know today as the New Testament which was a lengthy process that spanned several centuries.
(– 2nd Century AD: a core collection of writings began to emerge, this included the four Gospels and the letters of Paul. However, there were still discussions about some other writings. And from there the first canons of recognised writings began to appear such as the so-called Muratorian Canon (around 170-200 AD), which already contained many of the New Testament books but not all of them.
— 3rd and 4th Century: theologians such as Origen and Eusebius of Caesarea also compiled lists that differed in some respects.
— End of the 4th Century: a decisive step was the Easter letter of Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in 367 AD. In this letter, he listed for the first time the 27 books that we have in the New Testament today and designated them as canonical.
— Late 4th Century: Several regional synods confirmed the list of Athanasius. These include the Synod of Hippo (393 AD) and the Synods of Carthage (397 and 419 AD). These synods played an important role in solidifying the New Testament canon in the West.
— Eastern Church: the process of definitively establishing the canon took somewhat longer, particularly regarding the Book of Revelation and some of the Catholic Epistles. Nevertheless, a broad agreement with the Western canon was reached during the 4th and 5th centuries.)
In summary, the fundamental agreement on the scope of the New Testament with its 27 books took place in the late 4th century AD, approximately 350 to 400 years after Christ, until the currently known canon was largely established.
Excellent. Thank you!
To define God is impossible but the Creation-principle comprehension is part of our DNA so to speak. In the search for the definition of the Creation-principle the mind begins to wander, to catalog, to create a new storage of consciousness and this is where the descriptions such as “heaven’s kingdom” or “zero point energy” or “frequency modulation” and so on and so forth originate from based of the insights of the past. But keep in mind — scientific circles adhere to the same hierarchical structure as other orders and societies with a censor at the top from where “true vs false” are fed to the masses until those ideas become non-differentiable and people accept the very unnatural self-destructing as natural…
And before Jesus there were others such as Krishna, Buddha, or Mohammed after. Every culture has its own spiritual redeemer but they’re all the same basically. They spoke about a primordial being, an original principle from which the variety of cosmic life pours forth… And they spoke very often in parables, analogies and metaphors, so every person could pick the information which would align with the momenterally awareness and consciousness at that particular moment for the individual. Not to mention the extinct idioms within ancient texts where we have no idea what they refer to. To take texts literally…well…
Re 3.: To my understanding there wasn’t any favoritism going on as he loved mankind in its metaphysical sense being a mystic that he was. Though he also did mention that the sceptic was more to his liking than the self-righteous, and the doubter had more “weight” compared to the unquestioning believer who simply follows a pre-chewed belief-system. On other occasions he’d also say “Zip it and hold your tongue, bro” if someone was smart shooting horse shit. He operated through kindness but also logic and also through his ego in a balanced way, I dare say…
Kindness and love. the way
Sobriety — the way.
Cutting through the fog of emotional thinking — the way.
Critical thinking — the way.
It depends who were dealing with as to the correct/best way.
…who we’re* dealing with…
Wow Jordy:
You are very educated. How did you get so educated on the topic if I may ask? The only ones I know are two friends of mine, one a New Yorker who has a PhD in theology and is a Priest in the Anglican Church. One a funny side note: He is related to the monster Paul Castellano. He told me in his family you were either in crime or pushed into the church. The other is English and minister in a Pentecostal church’s I have friends from many religions. I always find it fascinating when they get heated up over some rule, some hierarchy… and I hate it when they tell me that I cannot be a Christian if I respect another persons religion and hold it equal. Or I don’t believe in Hell ( I don’t), I believe evil people become nothing when they die, nonenergy, dark matter and that hell exists on Earth. I also believe that God works through loving, kind, compassionate people whether they believe or not. It’s my belief. To each his own. I am glad you liked the book. I don’t see the institutions of belief as evil but those who use it to abuse. I have had ignorant people Muslims are evil as there bible tells them to kill non Muslims. (Both not true). As to critical thinking… love and kindness is a critical thought. Maybe the most important one of all. Easy to go low, hard to go high. And the highest point of the mountain gives you the clearest view. Also at my lowest, when I feel self doubt, or stress, kindness pulls me out… whether it’s telling a neighbors child, her dress is pretty or listen to an elderly person complain about her health with genuine care or petting my dog, planting a plant. The world gets brighter and lighter. While I think anger is also a critical way of thinking, I do believe if it is used to challenge circumstances that n the right way such as justice. I have been angry aimlessly, my emotional thinking clouded or empathy eroded. Of course. Who hasn’t … but that is often regretted. I don’t regret being kind to my ex (well almost) narc but r my ex psychopath narc and wouldn’t even they were standing in front of me as it is the greatest strength of all and the most rewarding … the be free and able to be me. With HG I am better at spotting it, such as love bombing. I have a long history of loving empaths and that is what I want and I enjoy being single. I like positive endings or closures to every relationship whether business or personal. With my ex narc, I told him I will always be his friend and wish him well. He could never withstand being my friend as my empath exes are. My sons father and girlfriend came over for a birthday celebration of my son. I absolute purely adore his newfound love and some of my ex relations I don’t talk to for years, but if I run into them, it’s warm. I’m ne I talk to once a year- he was the greatest love of my life, happily married and we update each other on family, health etc…I think th worst outcome would have been if my ex took away my essence, my ability to love and trust. Thank God he did not. I just don’t want to be romantically involved with another narc no matter how intelligent and good the sex was. Also I can’t tolerate abuse and negativity, games, inauthenticity. And it’s have only been cheated on once. No time for that either. My ex ( soon) was shocking to me as it was all completely a new experience and without HG, I would have not understood it. It was like being dropped into an alien planet. Thank goodness for HG!
One more thing Jordy dear:
Sometimes I feel my responses are Pollyanna-ish. And while I do my best to be kind, especially to children and my children, I am no pushover. I got into a dispute 21 years ago with my bank over forced insurance on my property and we battled and I settled back then with their lawyer and got a reduced sum and a Deferment. 20 years later my loan got sold and the new bank said they didn’t like the deal the former bank made. Anyway we battled last year ( not huge huge sums but enough) and I decided to pay them and sue them for hundreds of thousands of dollars plus punitive damages and sanctions of 1000$ an act- under the Rosenthal Act. I have read enough class action cases on the subject , researched the law, hired a great expert, spoke to lawyers handling these type of cases nationwide against the same defendants, researched the consumer protection bureau’s findings who fined them millions for these bad acts and made complaints about them to the regulatory authorities. These are multibillion dollar businesses and bullies without a conscience and I have caught them in their own accounts being “dead liars”. Maybe I will get rich, maybe I will get nothing but I am making the time to take a stand. Sword held high. And if I win, I am thinking of some sort of nonprofit to help others as these psychopaths harm millions in America. Millions. And funny enough Blackrock is each one’s largest shareholder. I put that in my complaint. Peel back the layers and you will find a few relentless billionaires aware that his underlings cut corners and ruin lives without remorse. Why else make basic contact with ever revolving reps on the phone who lie or are not informed and nothing ever in writing? And this lawsuit brings me deep down inner peace. It is something I must do. I want justice. I will not be kind. In fact, I heard Led Zeppelin’s immigration song in my head no matter how attorney like and civil my discussion was with their lawyer. He called to ask for “ more time to investigate my allegations.” I said “ I will give you the same amount of time that your clients gave me: none” and “ have a nice day.” Click. If they need a jury trial, it will be my pleasure. I truly mean that… my pleasure. And there is nothing kind about my intentions. And while I would not want those who run them to be shot dead, or dismembered, seeing every penny sink out of their bank accounts or at least a nice chunk of it will be enjoyable. It’s a quest I embrace at the moment. 😊 And I don’t think they eroded my empathy, as there is none for them in my pursuit and aim to help others after. It reminds me of a pedophile case I worked on and I looked at him, viewed all the evidence, met the victim and I got this calmness inside of me ready to put him behind bars for the maximum time permitted. Also…sometimes like when my law school neighbor got attacked by a serial rapist at 3:00 am and I was 6 feet away, I go calm. Not sure calm is the word. Still. I called out to her telling her the police had arrived, ( the rapist ran as a result and by the way is still in jail. Funny enough she slept with a knife nearby. City girl). (He was raping many young women then would leave a rose. ) or if there is an injury like a car crash. Blood and guts don’t phase me and they can’t when doing criminal prosecution. When something so horrible happens, that it defies comprehension of what reality should be, I feel like what I would imagine a surgeon feels. I get this stillness inside. Like I am not “ the surgeon”, anymore… I am “the blade.” I wonder what that is? Empathy eroded? Seething anger? Adrenaline? Is it an empath thing? Contagion? Do you know what I mean? We see it in movies sometimes, this defining moment when there is no turning back. It’s very rare for me to get to that point of what I call “ no return” but after all that I have read and seen and heard, I feel like this in the lawsuit. I feel ready to meet them. And I don’t feel any kindness, compassion or understanding. I just can’t wait to begin. It’s war.
Hi love! The topic just interests me, that’s all. I pick up information about it where I find it, books, internet, conversations, my own musings…
I don’t believe in Hell either. And that people create Hell on earth is true. Not all of them I believe to be soulless and become nothing after death. With some yes — there is nothing, no ghost in the shell whatsoever, only pure hatred towards life. Like empty vessels they provide space for energy of destruction, which –when it’s balanced out– as life’s component– is necessary otherwise there would be no seasons, no decay and construction of organisms and no eternity… Others appear to have a soul despite the “evil” cloak of oblivion…
…
You amaze me with your insights, do you know that!! Such as: “As to critical thinking…love and kindness is a critical thought. Maybe the most important one of all. Easy to go low, hard to go high.” — True! It’s the wisest energy there is. It can balance out the most dense energies…
“While I think anger is also a critical way of thinking” — This is also true! Emotions such as anger result from our limbic parts of the brain, which is responsible for protection and the strategies of survival our evolution had to rely upon. When someone tries to suppress their anger, they try to suppress their oldest, hardwired protective mechanism which was given to us by nature for good reasons. Those adult victims who stay in abusive relationships and don’t leave, don’t get angry — their limbic parts and its task of protection is somehow deactivated, they don’t protect themselves, don’t walk away from danger. It’s not empathy which makes them stay, it’s the disconnection to their limbic parts and protective instincts. They approach their situations from the neocortex, the part which is relatively new, and where, I believe, the emotional thinking is built.
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Reading your life stories makes me want to storm Netflix and hug-attack the CEOs until they agree to bring out a series called “Contagious in Law Law Land”.
‘I am the blade’; becoming calm and doing what needs to be done and ‘the point of no return’ — yes I know what you are referring to! It’s called “the place of no pity”. You don’t feel sorry for yourself and thus you are able to take actions as you are led by your essence.
Hiya, Contagious–
I’v been busy with midterms which delayed my reply.
“But pinpoint me one word of Jesus that isn’t correct.”
The thing for me is that he didn’t write anything, so it’s difficult to determine what are his words or what are words that were attributed to him. It isn’t like he had a stenographer. And then there’s the translation issue.
“I respect your truth.”
I don’t see myself as having “my truth”. That doesn’t make sense to me. I think truth is truth, regardless of anyone. What I believe is either true or it isn’t. Of course I believe that the things I believe are true. But I’ve been wrong before.
“So if you see him as a man, do you agree we should love our enemies? Does reparation sound good for you?”
I don’t know about love. I “love” narcissists and they’re not my friends, so there’s that. I think we should honestly assess the strengths, weaknesses, and positions of our enemies in relation to ourselves and act accordingly. If by reparation you’re speaking of the whole thing about paying me cash for the history of slavery, that makes me scoff. I hope that never gains traction politically because I wouldn’t turn down the money. I’d have to spend it on a really nice bespoke suit or something to feel better about accepting it. But I think the idea is ridiculous.
“So who do you follow? Your own moral code?”
HG regarding narcissism and general understanding of the working of the world, Marcus Aurelius for daily right living, Thomas Sowell for the economic sphere, and selected friends and acquaintances as close examples. As the type of empath I am I have a strong sense of justice, but I don’t push people to share it. I’m very judgmental, but not very vocal about it. In my own way I’m a bit of a prude.
“What I never get is all the why’s?”
Since I don’t believe in God those questions don’t trouble me in the same say. The way I see the pattern of number in the universe doesn’t require a creator personality or supernatural ruler for there to be meaning. When I’m down I do get a case of “why me”, but that evaporates with a good night’s sleep, time away from my studies, or a deep discussion of Ugandan affairs.
“Why did God allow narcissism and psychopathy?”
To me it’s expected that most people would be normal in terms of genetics and the environment, and then that there would be extremes which put people at the edges of the norms. My worldview holds that it is natural that there are anti-social people (psychopaths) as well as those who go all the way to narcissism. I’m not deeply into the psychological research on personality and the normal distribution, but I don’t see the need for an explanation beyond nature, especially when we see similar patterns in other complex animal societies.
“Anyway, I apologize if I offended you in some of my passionate responses…I hope you can forgive me for any offensive words I said:) I have felt bad about it”
Don’t trouble a hair on your pretty head. Thanks for the apology, but there’s no need for it. I’m judgy, but only Crocs truly offend me. And unsolicited hugs. I like wrestling in the world of ideas, so no harm and no need to feel bad.
Thanks Allison! I enjoyed your thought provoking response. “ Do not be wise in words, be wise in deeds.” I like that quote by MA.
You know I do wrestle with the idea that it’s all dna and how it reacts to the environment. But unlike in the animal kingdom, humans have the better ability to break behavioral patterns, such as breaking the cycle of abuse. There are programs that have changed an abusers patterns. That’s one perplexity about narcs, it seems to me if the environment wired it, it could unwire it. Is personality changeable? Behavior is. You see this in the prisons where grandiose narcs become quite humble and mild mannered when faced with the day to day life and death survival mode. So it seems it can be a behavioral choice or maybe facing a shank by a man twice your size with no one around to stop it is what it takes to behave better.??? Put a croc in a prison, he won’t change his behavior.
Allison and Contagious,
Your mention of the quote: “Do not be wise in words, be wise in deeds,” attributed to Marcus Aurelius, prompted me to think of the advertisement for Old El Paso tacos…
“Why don’t we have both?”
Arriba!! 🙂
Dear HG, it’s sad as this is the way that you see love. Truly being in love is absolutely magical it’s breathtakingly blissful. I do wish that one day you could feel this way but unfortunately I know you never will feel true love. And I am truly sorry for you.
Oh yes your description is SO true… breathtakingly awesome. I once lived this . 💖