A Piece of Your Mind


Vent your spleen. Have your say. Give us both barrels. Let us know what you really think. Such sentiments towards my kind are entirely understandable and they invariably occur post discard and sometimes post escape. There are differing rationales associated with this almost overwhelming need to speak to us about your experience of being entangled with our kind.

1.      Anger. You realise how you have been manipulated, abused and taken for a fool. Your anger is substantial and you feel a pressing need to unleash that anger against us with a litany of insults and some choice language.

2.      Enlightenment. You have had your epiphany and realised precisely what ensnared you, how it happened and why. You have seized this knowledge and now feel elated that you have done so. There is a sense of superiority in finally having all the pieces of the puzzle click into place and you want to confront us. You may not actually tell us what we are but you will certainly want to use the words, “I know what you are now.”

3.      Unfinished Business Part One. Nearly all discards occur without you being told that the Formal Relationship is over and if you are given such notice you are rarely given any proper or adequate explanation as to why this has happened. This results in the need to confront us at a later stage in order to try to find out why what has happened, has happened.

4.      Unfinished Business Part Two. This is akin to the situation above but the basis of this confrontation is in order to demand of us how we could do what we did and address your need to have us explain ourselves for what we did during the relationship.

5.      To Understand. You do not know what you were entangled with and you are unable to comprehend how somebody could behave in that manner towards you after everything that you did for us. This tirade details all of the help you gave us, the advantages that you conferred on us and each and every thing you did for us in the name of love.

6.      Clear the Smear. Predictably enough, you will have been smeared following your entanglement with us. You have heard all about the lies that have been peddled about you and you want to set us straight about how those comments were wrong, that you did not behave in the manner which we have described to other people and ultimately how you need to clear your name.

7.      The Right to Be Heard. You have a significant desire to want to be heard, especially as our manipulation of you will have caused you to feel that you have not been listened to during the Formal Relationship. You want your voice to be heard, you need to articulate your thoughts and feelings and an opportunity to avail yourself of discharging this need is too good to pass up.

8.      Convey the Pain. You remain horrendously wounded by your experience of being entangled with us and you want to let us know how badly we hurt you, how much it pains you still and how upset you are to have been treated this way.

9.      Sing the Praises. Sometimes you exhibit a capacity for nobility which manages to transcend the hurt, the pain and the anger. You remain bewitched by the golden period and all those magnificent attributes that you believe we still possess and therefore rather than attack us, expound bitterness or lash out, you declare all the reasons why you still love us, why you find us mesmerising despite what has happened and you wish us well for the future.

10. Justice. It is only right that are given the right of reply to the treatment that has been meted out against you.

11. Medicine. You put up with the tantrums, the lengthy invectives, the oral onslaughts and you were pummelled by our words. Now it is the time to give us a taste of our own medicine.

Whatever the motivation may be, your need and desire to have that final confrontation with us, to purge yourself of all those thoughts and considerations is huge and is very difficult for you to resist. Indeed, most of the time you do not resist it at all, instead you look to engineer situations whereby you are able to speak to us and deliver this tirade, this riposte, this howitzer. You will seek us out in order to provide us with a piece of your mind. Is this a good thing? Well, there are two potential upsides when this is looked at from your perspective. The first is that you are able to get things off your chest. All those thoughts which have whirled around your mind for weeks on end, the ifs and buts which prevented you from sleeping, the imponderables and the unanswered have been released as you allow your words to explode from you in an outburst of emotion applicable to whichever rationale which has driven you to this point. The second is that you may well feel that you have achieved some kind of closure by engaging in this step of giving us a piece of your mind.

But what about our perspective on all of this? What does this blast, this sounding off and this diatribe mean to us? This is where giving a piece of your mind in such a manner is actually not a good thing for you to do. Why is this?

1.      Sounding off in such an emotional manner, whether it is insulting us with angry words, crying with pain, savagely mauling us with a sneering and twisted face or even expressing how you still love us, just provides us with fuel and it is plentiful. You may have collared us on the telephone to vent at us. Anybody normal would end the call as they are repeatedly harangued and insulted, but not us, we will listen as we soak up all that fuel. Yes, we will be argumentative, defensive and belligerent but that is just to keep your tirade going owing to the plentiful fuel you are providing to us.

2.      This is a prime opportunity for us to hoover you. If we see you are angry, we may express false contrition, if you are hurt and upset we may declare how we will make changes so everything is right, if you reminisce about our wonderful times we will offer that golden period again to you. You are giving us a glorious opportunity to hoover you and in your heightened emotional state there is a good chance this will succeed.

3.      If we do not hoover at this point, you have just given us several reasons to execute a hoover at a later juncture by confirming to us that you remain adrift in the emotional state, you are fountaining with fuel and still beholden to us. The signs are good and it all points to a successful hoover in the near future.

4.      You confirm to us that you have failed to grasp the logic and reason of the situation and therefore your defences are weak. This means that further manipulations can be used and they will prove effective in terms of fuel and control.

5.      We take no notice of what you are actually saying. You may think that your speech is devastating, that you are landing telling blows on us, that you are assassinating our character and making us look terrible. You are not. You are playing into our hands. We are laughing at you inside.

6.      You are confirming that we continue to have considerable control over you. We may be busy with a new primary source but this confirmation acts as a green light to further unleashing of manipulations against you because you are not able to let go.

The temptation to give us a piece of your mind is vast and overwhelming but if done in the usual emotional fashion of the typical empathic individual you are just giving us more of what we want, failing to hurt us and extending your own entanglement with us.


41 thoughts on “A Piece of Your Mind”

  1. Jess
    He doesn’t use FB neither do i, he lives in another country and hes blocked me. He did that after repeated proposals of marriage lol
    Only way would be for him to call or message me but I know he won’t. not sure how I’m so sure but I am.
    I will let you know if he does. I totally listen to HG and know he’s right about no contact but there’s a part of me would be so tempted to play his games with him with all the knowledge and a cool head. Would like to pretend he’s winning me over but really be indifferent and unhurtable and play narc chess for a while.
    He doesn’t know what he is properly, think he’s a mid so unfortunately I wouldn’t be able to nag him to non fuel like I do HG
    This is all good therapy though as I realise as I’m writing this that I’m speaking from how I felt some time ago and I’m suddenly realising I’m thinking differently. I don’t think I do want the psychological sport with him anymore it’s kind of boring now.
    I suddenly feel as I’m writing that I can’t be bothered so maybe at last indifference is close.

  2. Yep, I have two narc friends that have done this recently. It’s to tease you. But also they’ve lowered their guard. To say “look, I’m still around, I haven’t gone anywhere. I’m open to messages. Look how easy it is to contact me. You know you want to.”

    Take control and block them Jenna. It takes away the urge to message them. Show them you have nothing to say! Show them they do not matter!

  3. 6 months without communication and for some reason, today I feel like communicating. But I will not! Hg, why did he unblock me, yet not message me?

    1. Jenna, stay strong! Do not fall prey to your emotional thinking! The urge will go away the longer you are NC. It’s been 9 months since I talked to the narc. Feeling much stronger than at 6 months. You can do this! You can be narc-free!

  4. Please excuse the long post this article evoked much reflection… I applaud you if you make it to the end! Although it is meaningful to me and what is in my heart to express.

    Now this is an area that he probably thought I was useless for.
    He never managed to get negative fuel from me. On one occasion I demonstrated a short lived irritation.
    Going by the fuel form of delivery ratings, I fell short, only achieving a nine for admiring words, rather then spanning into angry gesture – tearful words.

    It is not the case that my agreeableness prevented me, or that I was in a naive bubble, there was certainly no bewitching from a golden period as that was definitely a bronze/ copper period at best.

    I have the capacity to rage, to scream to be verbally aggressive if I CHOOSE to.
    Through the process of looking at the shadow of me, I have clearly identified that I am quite capable to show my teeth.

    Even at the time I was interacting with him he wanted this, he manipulated situations to get a negative reaction, be it through triangulation with people I love, or silent treatments; or deliberately being confrontational or abusive to me. He projected massively, when he thought I had not responded how he would like or he did not like how I responded. He provoked using criticism and sarcasm, he drenched himself in that, usually directed at the empathic traits he once stated he liked about me. His projection was often observed, and a very obvious picture of how he felt- jealous, sad.

    This article has caused me to reflect on my time with him. I can not recall one instance that he saw anger in me, on one occasion he may have sensed hurt / or when I cried, but it was dark and I cried silently, the tears ran from my eyes without added sound, so he may not have noticed.

    My admiration of him was filled with my care for him, he undoubtedly saw this in my eyes, the way I looked at him. Positive fuel I did in abundance. But negative fuel- I was found wanting !
    Maybe this was another reason for his final push to get a reaction… backfired for him, or maybe not, maybe the cut was just that.

    I believe that my dance with him was purposeful, it had a hidden meaning that I have been on a quest to unveil…
    I needed to go through a process of facing a pathological reality (his world) to truly identify the “real”.
    My dance with him was a trigger in opening up my shadow, facing the personality streaks that run through me that are not “a good person” but that make me whole. I feel that I am still on this journey. Although I feel that my dance with him is done.

    Considering this quest for the real, makes me think of T.S Eliot-

    “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time”.

    My only remaining fear in my quest is my recognition of the strength of my shadow traits, the darkest parts of me. How when it comes to possible future interactions with other narcissists, can I rationalise away from a potential “wanting”, with what is “real”.
    I guess I will only know this if I am in a position to face it again.

    One thing I know for sure – he will not get negative fuel from me, because I will CHOOSE not to give it to him…. no matter if he hoovers, or provokes through others. With all my strength I feel this resolve !

    Even before I knew what he was – When he ignored me I did not chase him, when he criticised me I responded with neutrality, when he emotionally wounded me he heard no words of pain, when he physically hurt me, I showed an automatic reaction, however he seemed too preoccupied to acknowledge my hurt/ tears if they were noticed at all.

    My main downfall was and still is my want to be understood, so I would over explain to express my view, in anyway I knew how. However that being said I would do this only once relating to a specific situation or provocation from him; if he did not respond I did not follow it up or chase him. If he decided that a response was not required for whatever reason, it only highlighted more of the “real” for me and regardless of the hurt, I learned and used it as evidence to move myself away from him… I used this pain to motivate me when he cut me out of his life, as a motivator not to react, not to give him my words, my attention, my time, my care, my adoration.

    Thus he has heard no words from me again. He only heard silence where he once heard me laugh, seeing blankness where he once saw an adoring smile which transcended to my eyes.

    “ even the strongest feelings expire when they are ignored and taken for granted”

    Although I do not suppose this is of consequence to him, I was just one on a list … a long list of failures and no “real”.

    1. Quasi, It does happen for a reason but not being a ‘good person’ does not mean you are a bad person. I cared too but I also lost my shit over and over because I don’t have massive self control, but it never made any difference until the end when I had him over a barrel. It’s a game they can play it because there are no consequences for them. There are no consequences because they don’t feel anything. There are no successes or failures, there is nothing right or wrong. You are correct in that the learning is all about you (us), and not about them. From our perspective, it is humiliating to have been ‘played’ but they do not understand things the way we do. Mine would never understand that perspective because he did not set out to humiliate me. He set out to get fuel. He probably doesn’t even know what it means/feels like because he has such a thick layer of self protection. So again, it wouldn’t have made any difference had you begged or walked away. I hope I am understanding you correctly! But if not, please ignore!

      1. SMH, I would never ignore you.
        You have been incredibly kind in A – reading my words and B- responding to me.
        The main drift of what i was saying is that I never lost my shit at him, I absolutely controlled what he could gather negative fuel wise … instinctively not wanting to give him something he clearly wanted. I big part of this was my refusal to play his game, by instinct before I realised what he was and on purpose afterwards.

        In full honesty SMH this post was an absolute projection of emotional pain. I am aware of why I posted this and it is only in part related to the subject of not letting him have my negative fuel.

        I have been taught many lessons by narcissists over the last year or so. They were lessons that I needed. I will never hate the narcissists for these lessons due to this. Every interaction, every action, I have observed, and paid attention to,- to the action itself and also what it evoked in me.

        I have allowed myself to feel everything, I have encouraged myself to feel everything that the experiences have thrown at me. That has been very painful, and I am pretty much at the bottom of my tolerance for it. Hence why I posted the above to project my pain and also to get what I think out of my head ! In part it’s a message to all narcissists I have known and may come to know in the future. I hope I fail their tests miserably, so they find me to be “not worth the effort “.

        The other element here was my acknowledgment that the dark parts of me are horrible, and can influence the whole of me at different weak points in my overall armour. It was the DE streak that did not even consider my husband and children when I agreed to meet him the first time we got intimate, it was the DE streak that didn’t think of them at all when I agreed to sleep with him.
        I can categorically say that trying to incorporate such a bitch into who I think I am has been very difficult. I have opened myself up to many things, in my attempt to recognise this part of me and not deny that it exists. I know it’s important not to deny it, if it stays in the shadow it could pop up any old time and I would have less control of it.

        It’s going to be a balancing act to incorporate what I view as high narcissistic traits of selfishness, and infidelity, into the whole of me- still a work in progress but well underway. Trying to keep in check what I view to be two separate ET mindsets relating to this streak and “normal me” is quite frankly a ball ache…
        if I had balls they would be aching!!!

        With regard to the lessons that have been delivered to me. I absolutely see the reason for them, I understand exactly their meaning and intention. I am humble enough to admit that it has been painful.
        I am humble enough to Acknowledge I have been “weak” and a “bad person”, at times.
        I have no problem with admitting to being weak, because when I’m honest with myself I can actually do something about it.
        Hope is something I have in barrels, but the focus of this hope has centrered around a positive outcome whereby my DE streak is kept in check and I am overall stronger and fully whole.

        You are right SMH, I don’t think I am a consistently bad person, but I have made bad decisions. I think it would be very disingenuous if I did not acknowledge and address this, if I professed to be an all round “good person” I would be lying to myself.
        Your also absolutely spot on with that fact that fuel is the rule. I guess it’s down to us how bountiful we make our fuel! Niagra or a shot glass!

        Thank you SMH, for hearing me and for being so bloody lovely.. your kindness to me now and in the past has made more of an impact then you may realise. Qx

        1. Quasi, I know what you are struggling with because we had this conversation on another thread. I did do one thing in my past that I am especially not proud of, similar to what you are struggling with, and I’ve never fully dealt with it. I think I have more narc traits than you do, so it is easier for me not to beat myself up and to instead blame someone else (even my younger self). It was also at a different point in an interpersonal cycle, so I didn’t go home every night where it was staring me in the face.

          I don’t think I am such a ‘good’ person in the day-to-day, though I can be. I try to balance out the bad by doing good things – by going above and beyond, sometimes consciously and sometimes it’s just what I do.

          No one is good all the time and I accept that in people. What I don’t accept is when the bad is relentless, part of someone’s core, and never balanced by the good (that’s my narc – as HG says, Evil!)

          You did something you are not proud of but you can’t spend the rest of your life letting it eat away at you.

          Perhaps this will help: I did that really bad thing that I am not proud of many years ago, I told the person I had done it to — for various reasons it could not be kept secret anyway — and he was amazing about it. Maybe I deserved his graciousness and maybe I did not. I don’t know. It did not change the course of our personal history and nor did it absolve me (obviously, because I still think about it and I lie to myself about it), but I remember being astonished that someone could be so generous. This person had also done bad things, including to me – things that no one should do to anyone else, but he did that good thing too. Which was the real him? Which is the real me?

          We all do good and bad. Maybe you should tell not to absolve yourself but out of respect. Maybe you will find forgiveness at the other end. Otherwise, please don’t struggle with the narc thinking you could have done things differently. It doesn’t matter if you gave him fuel or not. It would all turn out the same with him in the end. Part of what you write makes me think that it was nonconsensual. If that is the case, please go to the police. xx

          1. SMH,

            Thank you, I really like how you have broken this down and the advise you have given me. The example you gave was very helpful and made total sense..
            Your logical/ rational mind is clearly well tuned ! And I really appreciate you taking the time to read my projected crap and try to decipher it.

            I believe I do have more empathic traits then narc traits, but the ones I have appear to be quite strong. I am definitely drawn to narcissists, the one I knew I did not find attractive but still had an intimate relationship with, without wanting him in that way.

            I know I was projecting in my post, I’m quite self aware most of the time.
            We have discussed this before and I did make a decision not to tell him, but as you say it is the respect element that still digs at me. Absolution is not something to seek, even if he grants forgiveness.

            If I continue to struggle with compartmentalising the narc situation, I believe I will tell him, because he is a good man and is deserving of much better treatment, and relationships.

            I know my core is fundamentally good, I just shocked myself with the ease in which I made those decisions without a thought for the people I love. I was a different person with a different mind set, different values … freaked me out to be honest… That is what I beat myself with. It is why I need to acknowledge that part of me and accept it so I can try and control it a bit better.. It scares me that I could potentially easily make those decisions again, within certain situations.

            I don’t think it would be the case with your average guy, as I have never entertained the idea of it, but a narcissist clearly is able to manipulate this part of me. I can only hope not to meet another one in my real world, as I would probably be easily dominated. Or hope if I do, that the balance I need with all parts of me is in place,and I can divert from the risk.

            I guess the key element now is that I am aware, where I once was not. I have knowledge now that i did not have then. I am working on myself daily.
            That is all I can do I guess.

            Re- the non consensual thing, I agreed initially, but very soon asked him to stop (repeatedly) which he ignored. I was concerned about his anger presentation and potential risk of more harm, so decided to stay and essentially consent again, to get away from him quicker – that is the best way I can describe without details. I do not feel I can or would take this matter to the police based on the the fact that I consented twice and made the decision to stay in the situation. I hope that this makes sense.

            Your so right about fuel, it doesn’t matter, I was looking at the issue from an obscured emotional lens, and I was being wilful.

            I’m absolutely fine today, rational mind is on form. I will however always argue that I am ok today because I processed and let out the emotional stuff of yesterday’s, rather then repress it or hold onto it; with logic dismissing or belittling how I felt. Emotions have a fundamental purpose, I think we need to listen to them. This is a view of mine that has yet to be shifted by anything learnt about narcissists and engagement with them. I will never be someone praised for my use of logic alone, because I choose to use both.

            Anyway I’m aware that I bang on about that a little too much and other people may be yawning or doing an epic eye roll!

            Thank you again SMH, you have a real talent for helping others see a picture, that helps them to process their own crap. As always you have helped me a great deal, a kindness that is not forgotten..
            Take care lovely lady… Qx

          2. Quasi, It sounds like you went through a lot. You are struggling with being ‘seduced’ by the narc, you are struggling with the not exactly consensual aspect of it, you are struggling with whether to tell, and you are struggling with your own personal qualities. Most of us are only dealing with one or maybe two of those things. Can I suggest that you find a good and well trained therapist to help you? It is a lot for one person to deal with. xx

    2. Quasi, I have to respond to your post – it’s so similar to my experience! First, I applaud your conviction to not provide fuel. Did you GOSO and No Contact?

      I also only had what, in hindsight would be termed “a bronze/ copper period at best.” He was “weird” from the get go, and I passed it off and tolerated it. I also have the most poisonous tongue and can cut you to the quick in three seconds flat, when I choose to. In 2 years, I think I only raised my voice to him twice, both times telling him to “shut the fuck up!”. The second instance provoked physical violence. My main go-to defense was poker face, not reacting to his tirades until he wore himself out and telling myself that he wasn’t screaming AT me, he was screaming TO me, because on some level I understood that I hadn’t done anything wrong. I excused him endlessly, even without receiving an apology. When he hurt me physically, he was silent for 3 days, then when I was ready, I asked him what he had to say for himself and he defensively, aggressively, said “Sorry?” – like it was a question.

      At some level, I knew, don’t ask me how, that I was all but irrelevant to him as a person. It started out with me trying to share details of myself and my life with him, but since it so often fell flat he gave the impression that he just didn’t care, despite his verbal protestations to the contrary. It didn’t take very long before I just started keeping myself to myself. I resented it at the time, but now I count it as a blessing – less details for him to hurt me with. The only relevance I had was that I bailed him out financially – covered all the bills and food, phone and gym membership, etc. and handled all the tedious interpersonal details of his life that were beneath him. The cash cow had to be placated, it seems, and it wasn’t even with sex (which was never that good and never frequent enough to satisfy anyone), it was the conversational crumbs and moments of attention in what might be termed a respite from the modified silent treatment that went on for days. I say “modified” because there would be the bare minimum of civil conversation as needed to communicate the basics of life together.

      Somewhere in this, I started looking carefully at myself, and also did a lot of shadow work. I find elements of selfishness, entitlement, bullying, violence, thoughtlessness and other “unattractive” tendencies in myself, and have acknowledged them. Still trying to understand these aspects of myself and find some blessing or strength in them, but I’m not afraid of the answers or their presence in me.

      I also believe that my time with him served a purpose on my life path: Finally, the self-loathing, the people-pleasing, the unworthiness came to the forefront of my awareness and to use an inelegant metaphor, the unlearned lesson is like the turd that circles the bowl and won’t flush down until you learn it. I am aware, but it is as yet unintegrated and I don’t for one second believe that I’m immune from other narcs. The work of questioning and reprogramming this is still ahead, once I recover further from my close call with a total break with reality.

      I still want to be understood as well, and want to pick apart his lies and “set him straight” with facts and logic, but I’d be barking up the wrong bush. He doesn’t care. It’s not relevant to HIM. When he started “managing down” my expectations – for communication in text or phone, responses to direct questions, refusing to tell me factual things when I asked, withholding more and more of his meager pay while I struggled, continuing to do things I told him bothered me and that I’d asked him to stop, I just started following the pattern. He didn’t answer my text or take my call? No worries, I did the same. He didn’t sleep in the bedroom without explanation? Neither did I. He was sitting and eating food that he prepared for HIMSELF and none for me when I got home? I didn’t cook for him anymore. No comment, no chasing from me on any of it, and although I did expect a confrontation, none came.

      The best thing I can say about all of this is that I believe I spun him a bit, even while I was spinning. And that his greatest gift to me was a shining example of how to love and value MYSELF the same way I valued HIM. Good luck on your continuing journey!

      1. Hi kelleygurl116,

        I really enjoyed reading that, thank you.. The metaphor was also amusing and I think it worked well as a descriptor !

        Using the terms learnt here- in my situation I was a shelf ipss to a lower mid range. I am married with 2 young children. I have not been honest with my husband, he does not know. As a by product I literally pour my soul out here, with raw honesty that I can not bring myself to give to him.

        My relationship with the narcissist started as friendship- all I wanted it to be. I over valued him, cared for him and wanted him to fill a role that he could not , and did not want to fill. Different agenda’s, as seems to be the case often – different motivations, different perspectives, different aims! The typical dynamic of an empath and a narcissist.
        He took the friend route to work his way in and manipulated me, I have discovered that I have a dirty empath streak of infidelity- brought to the surface by him.

        I worked out what he was soon after the relationship turned intimate, as it was incredibly apparent that he did not care for me, had no concept of boundaries and used my empathy and care for him against me. I withdrew but didn’t cut him out due to my care for him.
        I only had full sex with him once, following this incident I totally withdrew. But again not GoSo. I was not responding to him (baits) and I was not actively contacting him. So after two months of this quiet he cut me out. Our main communication between physical time together was Facebook and messenger. He unfriended me but did not block me. I went GoSo at this point not responding to him esentially cutting me out of his life, no contact as in not responding ! and proper no contact in blocking him etc from early March.
        If he had not cut me out I’m not sure if I would have made this final cut/ ending myself. I cared for him far to much. Maybe if I had come to narcsite earlier, I hope that I would have understood and taken action for GoSo, but I can not say this with certainty as it happened differently.
        I have a public account on instagram but he is not on there, I’m sure this is not considered as full no contact though..

        The narcissist you Interacted with sounds like a lower mid range too.. or upper lesser?
        It seems like your instinct told you many things, you picked up that he had no interest in you as a person but was interested in the residual benefits, what you paid for and what you did for him.
        If you lived together I’m assuming that you were his ipps for this time period. So your experience would have been much more intense and truer to the pattern of the narcissist than I experienced. I like how you worked him out and purposefully didn’t respond how he wanted.
        Value for yourself is so incredibly important, I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph.

        At times you may see a post such as this from me, which is me projecting more then the words I use.
        My conviction in this post is founded in my stubbornness, wilfulness and wants. I’m just being militant to be honest…
        I do not want to give him fuel, especially negative fuel as it was clear he wanted it. In the most part I didn’t really provide negative fuel, but this is my perspective. He may well have thought that I did, in other ways.

        The main lesson I have learnt is simple- fuel is the rule! the narcissist will literally do and say anything required in a particular situation to get what they need and want, knowingly lying or unknowingly as taught here “the lies spoken are their truth”.
        They need to establish superiority and control. The conversational crumbs were very much at play, and often total lies to keep me bound to him. My relationship with him was test after test, and punishment. I responded to this more when I did not know any better. But when you know better you do better right? .

        I too will always be susceptible to narcissist’s, I am drawn to them. So working on myself is all I can really do about that. hoping to fail their tests and lose their interest, or even better not play the game at all..
        good luck to you also Kelley, your post portrays a woman who knows her stuff and is not Afraid to work from the inside out. Quite inspiring to be honest .

      2. Good morning, Quasi! Thanks for your beautiful words of encouragement.

        I was IPPS – primary supply of everything -money, support, transportation, nanny care for his miserable kids, communications gatekeeper for ex baby mommas and bosses, free legal advice, you name it! LOL

        Based on what I know from my reading, I would say that he’s somewhere in the mid-range – but damaged, flawed in some way. He’s a constant victim and everything that he complains about being done to him, he did to me. I’m trying to work out what the flaw is – there wasn’t much effort at charm, he’s not intellectually superior to me, and he used his self-given title (which I’ll withhold for now) as an excuse to behave erratically and not have to function in the world. He used to take great pleasure in telling me about his “OCD” and “social anxiety”, but it seems like it was just a front for when he couldn’t “control” the group dynamic and not about “managing others’ energy”. And the OCD? Total fiction, revealed when (I believe) he was out potentially “grooming” Ms. Next and the house was untouched. dishes and laundry left undone, splats in the sink, etc. I can’t quite put my finger on what the irregularity/flaw is. Maybe he has some limited self-awareness that somehow triggers this disjointed style of relating. HG? Any notion?

        The best I can come up with is that he was very much like a cult leader – altering my name, my eating habits, my sleep schedule, making up “emergencies” to keep me nearby and prevent me from having outside interests, activities and for a time, I had no job. He would hold forth on one of his “spiritual” subjects (which beliefs changed with the season, apparently) and if I tried to question, interject, or even answer him, he would LITERALLY “Shush!” me! He would move the furniture around on an almost weekly basis, randomly rearrange the displays on the walls, change where things were kept in the kitchen, and it kept me very much off balance. That wasn’t “home” – that was a prison camp.

        Enough of this unpleasant memory lane. When we know better, we DO better. And to badly paraphrase Dr. Phil (tee hee) “The world will kick the shit outta you, there’s no need to give it any help.” We’re not bad people. Why do we judge ourselves so harshly for behavior that we would absolutely excuse in anyone else – give them an out, but make ourselves accountable? It helps me to remember that there’s a continuum of “bad” to “good” and our judgement of our position on it is based on our perceptions, environment and conditioning. Even though I acknowledge that I’m somewhere on that line, I KNOW that I am basically a good person, warts and all, monumental mistakes and all. And you are too. Peace to you.

    3. Damn it scrap that… Thinking about it, he did get negative fuel I think? when I was asking him to stop repeatedly, they were upset tearful words !( oh how we try and block things from the mind) I can only assume that they may provide him negative fuel? he certainly did not respond to them and just kept on going. He did not appear to recognise that I was hurt or upset, he just ignored me – I was meat.. when I changed tact to get away from him, he was well fuelled as he thought he had done something amazing.. it was literally the happiest I have ever seen him… a fake for his fake, gave him a real fill for a moment – how ironic…
      One thing is for sure, he sure did have the capacity to hurt me, He just rarely observed it/ or I controlled it so he would not see it.. I’m sure he got thought fuel though. My perspective does not see this as indicative of superiority or power, but something quite different.

      1. Quasi
        Don’t beat yourself up about it. We all give negative fuel, no matter how hard we try not to. My exhusband gets negative fuel from me going completely still and emotionless, if he knows he triggered it. To a normal narc being emotionless may be wounding, but if they’re smart enough, they can pick up on subtle signals we just can’t hide. Even if they only happen momentarily.

        He’d probably say it was the Irish in him, but when I draw a line that he can’t cross without me walking away, he won’t cross it – but he’ll dance a jig on it! 😝

        1. Thanks windstorm,

          I was just having a moment or three! It’s definitely a want not to give negative fuel. But as you say they have a very different perspective and he may have felt he received fuel from my silence, as complaince in his eyes. Quite content to put me back on the shelf, not bothering him.

          Dancing a jig on the line sounds about right… I really like your perspective and approach windstorm, I would quite like your wisdom, as I am often not wise in my choices. However I’m sure I can retrain my mind over time… I’m working on it!

          1. Thank you Quasi! I like your insights as well. You are thoughtful, introspective, full of life and optimism! As to wisdom, you’re doing well there, too!

            One of the drawbacks of wisdom is we tend to accumulate it with age and experience. So unfortunately we tend to have the most when we’re old and beaten up by life. Lol! But don’t ever let life beat your optimism out of you. It’s a gift as precious as wisdom!

          2. Wow… windstorm thank you so much. Your words are powerful and so very kind. It’s lovely to hear an expression of this view of me. It is also very meaningful coming from someone I have come to regard in the same way, and have so much respect for.

            ( I’m 37 so part way to full on wisdom! I’m going to be so freaking wise by the time I’m 50, like yoda! Except a taller less green version… lol..)

            Optimism is definitely a thing for me.. it would take a lot to beat that out of me..

            I always thought that if I was an ipps to him I would have annoyed the hell out of him with my contentment.. I’m a sing and dance in the kitchen kind of person and the kids join in ! He would have been in permanent incredible sulk! Flouncing off in a huff ( he fits the mid range info to a T) And I like to think I would have ignored him!
            Thank goodness I was only a shelf ipss…

            Thanks again windstorm your pretty amazing yourself, Qx

          3. Quasi
            37? You’re still just a Spring chicken (as they say around here). I’ll be 61 soon, but I still sing and dance not only at home but in the halls at my middle school! My children may have joined in when they were very small, but mainly they pretend they do t know me! 😄
            I follow my father’s advice, “You have to grow old, but you never have to grow up.”
            Have a great week!

          4. My optimism has increased a little again.. I was out with friends tonight, the narcissist showed up an hour later, just as he did before. ( joy of living in the same town, and “coincidence that he just showed up again”)
            I didn’t leave, but I completely ignored his existence.

            I don’t hate him, but I don’t care for him anymore either! I feel numb to him. What was once identifiable as fear has shifted position to Be a motivation behind me rather then a block infront of me.
            I felt the strongest I have felt in a long time.

            I just wanted to say thank you to all on the blog. I really don’t be think I would be this person, had it not been for all I have learned here, from you all. X

    4. Hey, your blog compartmentalized all the thoughts I’ve had today!

      I cannot thank you enough for sharing this with at least me, today. I love T.S. Eliot. I am in limbo right now as I know I must vanish. But to where and I got my answer. Wow

      And I was the same way with my ex as well wherein it’s easy for me to let things go . . . so he got 90% praise and 5% negative fuel. And I didn’t get much of a golden period as well, copper hehe. I wasn’t enough drama for him until the end and he got plenty of it supernova style. How long were you together?

      HG, is it possible for a IPPS to do so much wounding when she escapes, there will never be a Hoover from a Greater?

      Three weeks ago I just learned about shadows from a Native American Indian. Humble dude. So, I’m guessing that’s my next exploration. WTF are my shadows? Why do I have this nebulous attraction to narcs? Plus I’m a magnet so I get hit on often. I quit making eye contact with men. I ended one emotional male attachment when I realized he was a narc. I have many male friends and I analyze them now when we’re together or texting. Have I been their tertierary all these years?

      I have a feeling you’ll know exactly what to do when you encounter your next narc. Run! I wish I was where you are in awareness. I have hope that day comes soon. Limbo sucks. X

      1. HG, I Have a question about ‘the stare.’ Unfortunately I was in court 2 weeks ago with my ex. Toward the end of the proceedings, he made eye contact with me. I did not look away, but gave him nothing. No expression, I dimmed my headlights so to speak, and had no thought. The ex gave me the stare which use to scare me. He no longer scares me. I’ve owned my own. Ex looked away first. Did I stare him down? Or by him looking away was he telling me in a sense that he still has the power?

      2. No because the effect of wounding diminishes over time and thus the risk as per a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria remains. Massive wounding through escape may prevent hoovering once the Initial Grand Hoover has been weathered but it is not a failsafe.

  5. Question for you, HG: do you use what we write for some of the posts from the empath’s perspective? I’ve thought for awhile that you do – that you must. Do we feed you the material and you sift through it, summarize it and put it into some kind of intelligible order? It’s very clever and very helpful if true.

    1. No, but I should imagine that part of what I read seeps into my mind when I am writing.

      1. Thanks, that makes sense. You must draw your material from your own personal experiences, then. It’s uncanny how alike we empaths are!

          1. I’m curious though if through all the audio consults and now adding in the latest services about assessing a narc or dating a narc, if you have learned or observed things explained by us that maybe you found confusing in your personal dealings in your relationships in the past? If so, care to share?
            For example, when I explained the dynamic of a former friendship and my girlfriend had a very strained relationship with her mother. However, in any stressful situation with people whether professional or personal if she had to harness a very assertive side (nice way of saying downright bitchy) she called it “channeling Jodie” (her mother’s name). And I remember you being like “hey, I just learned a new tactic I can use. I’ll just say Abigail is coming out” lol
            I would think after 3 years of blog work, you would have gained a lot of material from all of us with our perspectives for writing new articles or to keep in working for your books in addition to your personal life to draw from.

          2. I have learned more through the consultations in terms of understanding the behaviour and responses of victims, yes.

  6. It took me years to stop expressing my frustration at the narc. I learned that it just gave him fuel, and let him know I was still emotionally attached. It also provided him with the opportunity to verbally abuse me. He would tell me I had anger issues, call me names and tell me and was pathetic. So not only had his behaviour caused me to message him and explain I was hurting, he got to beat me up a second time. In the end I just stopped reacting, despite his repeated attempts to bait me.

    I love the saying ‘the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference’. I practice that now and he no longer gets any feedback from me or gets the opportunity to verbally beat me up.

  7. Demands, demands, as usual. We have to be calm, realistic and controlled, so that your kind is not fed.. No, I let it out all of it – as long as there is no witness. It helps me to keep my blood pressure under control. I learnt from you. Win- win game. I keep my blood pressure under control and you feel fed.

    1. Mona….just a suggestion….
      Get a punch bag! Everyone should have one…. I have one…. they are good for that kind of thing. Mine isn’t put up yet, so really need to get around to it. But make sure you have boxing gloves, and learn to punch in the correct way, otherwise you can do injuries to your wrists. I learnt from a friend who did MMA.

  8. I disagree. your right if he Hoover’s me I’m right if he doesn’t. so far no Hoover. I promise to let you know if he does. so far im right your wrong

    1. It’s coming… it’s likely either way that he’s spying on you and knows what your doing. He will hoover. HG is right.

    2. Lynn,
      My narc mother was a grammar nazi also. I was often entertained by watching her constantly correct my father (also a narc) for the same errors over and over and over. He would always look abashed and say, “Yes, Mama. You’re right, Mama,” then continue making the same mistake! She would try to control herself, but it was obvious that it infuriated her. Lol!

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