Raising the Hoover Bar


Raising the hoover bar


The hoover. It is one of the most discussed periods of the narcissistic entanglement. I am referring to it in the traditional sense, namely the three post-discard/escape hoovers, although as you will be aware from my works, there are other hoovers throughout the interaction between us and you.

There are most likely two reasons for the post discard/escape hoover being a prime topic of discussion. First, by the time you have worked out what you are dealing with you will have already experienced the seduction, devaluation and discard/escape. The post discard/escape hoover is what is occupying you now because it may have happened recently, is ongoing, or you anticipate it happening. The second reason is that the possibility of ongoing interaction with us continues to fascinate you and thus the post discard/escape hoover becomes the focus of much of your attention.

I have explained previously that if the Initial Grand Hoover has taken place and failed (this hoover being caused by your escape) then you will face follow-up hoovers thereafter, of a benign and/or malign nature. Their catalyst is whether you enter our spheres of influence through something you have done (spheres one to five) or the fact you have just entered out mind for some reason (sphere six). If you have entered a sphere of influence, we always consider (though dependent on the nature of your type of narcissist the degree of consideration varies considerably) whether a hoover could be effected. There are certain hurdles which will either prevent that hoover from taking place or reduce the likelihood of it taking place. These hurdles may well raise the bar so it is less likely that the Hoover Execution Criteria are met, meaning it is less likely you will suffer a hurdle. Knowing what these factors are and how we regard them is crucial in formulating your defences to maintain No Contact.  What, then,  are those hurdles?

  1. Your Whereabouts

If we do not know where to find you so that we can appear face to face and look to garner some excellent Proximate Fuel by turning up at your home, your work or somewhere else you frequent this naturally poses a considerable problem to us. A Greater Narcissist will apply some effort to ascertaining your whereabouts, a Lesser is unlikely to do much at all. Accordingly, as part of building your defences the necessity of changing where you can be physically found not only pays dividends in commencing No Contact but affecting the likelihood of a later hoover.

  1. Your Accessibility

In a similar vein we need to be able to contact you. If we do not have a physical place to either attend, drive past, leave or note or send a gift, then we will look to access you through electronic means. If we know your telephone number, we are far more likely to hoover or if we have a means of contacting you through an app or on social media. If you have effected a media blackout and managed to sustain it, the prospects of a hoover happening are vastly reduced.

  1. Gullibility of Friends and Family

We may have a lieutenant in your ranks already. If so, the prospects of being hoovered are increased as we will have them lined-up to leak to us where we can find you and how we can contact you. Even if there is no lieutenant, if there is the prospect for a hoover we (or one of our lieutenants) will approach people in your camp to gather this information. It is often done under a separate auspice – there may be an emergency, some post has arrived we need to pass on, there is something confidential to relay to you – and if your family and friends are trusted with contact information their susceptibility to releasing this information is important. Bear in mind several months may have passed and if a lieutenant approaches your parents or a friend, they may not be alert to the danger. If those who might have your contact information remain impregnable then the hoover prospects are diminished.

  1. Happy and Contented

If you are demonstrating (to the outside world at least) that you are happy and contented, then this will affect the hoover prospects. Generally speaking we expect you to still be pining for us and miserable. This is regarded as a condition which is fertile ground for a successful hoover. If we are aware that you are moving forward, you rarely mention us, you appear generally happy and content then the Lesser and Mid-Range of our kind will be less likely to attempt a hoover. This is because they may be easily rebuffed and even though you may do so in a pleasant way, the fuel gained will be minimal. You should be aware however that a Greater will regard you as a prospect to break and therefore will not be dissuaded by seeing you happy and content alone.

  1. A New Interest

If you happen to have moved on to somebody new, which of course is dependent on the passage of time and other factors, then again a Lesser or a Mid-Range is less likely to hoover. The prospect of being rebuffed and thus wounded through criticism will prove too great a risk to them. They will feel criticised already by knowing you are with someone new when you should be holding a torch and pining for them and they are likely to regard the hoover as too risky, with the prospect for no fuel and further wounding. This will not apply to the Greater Narcissist. We are more likely to apply a malign follow-up hoover and lash out at you and your new partner to get a double fuel strike.

  1. Your Fuel Potential

You will have been an excellent source of fuel at some point, that is why you were chosen and ensnared, but that changed. The reason hoover fuel is so potent is that you will have recovered to some extent from what has happened to you, you will want to see us or be relieved that we have come back for you (not always but often) and most of all the fact that we have abused you and yet we can still entice you either to start the Formal Relationship again or even to provide fuel shows how powerful we are and thus adds to the potency of the fuel. If you are a super empath or a co-dependent you will be a prime prospect for hoovering. However, if we regard you as still badly crippled by what we did to you so that you have been in effect numbed so that your emotional output is muted or deadened, this will affect whether a hoover will take place. In such circumstances a proxy hoover may take place so a lieutenant can scope you out. Or you may (if circumstances allow) receive a paving the way message which is not a hoover in itself but rather a way of seeing how the land lies to then decide whether a hoover attempt should be made.

  1. Your Knowledge

If we are aware that you know what we are or have information which could be damaging to us in the form of amounting to a serious criticism this will lessen the likelihood of a hoover. Whilst a Lesser has no awareness of what he or she is, if you do know and you keep making mention of it and adapting your behaviour accordingly, he or she will at least sense there is little fuel to be gained and/or the risk of criticism. Similarly, a Mid-Range will realise that there is something “off” with the situation and think very carefully before being exposed to less fuel and/or criticism. The Greater is not concerned by your knowledge of what he is. He will deny it and look to manipulate the situation to his advantage to draw further fuel, but he will be concerned by anything that could cause criticism.

  1. The Façade

This carefully constructed and maintained device which we use to repeated effect against you is important. Not only do we use it against you but it will be used against other victims and those who help create the façade provide us with fuel. We do not want this to be damaged or fractured in anyway. If we ascertain that there is a risk of this happening if we hoover you (for instance you have damning evidence of our behaviour which could be circulated if we engage with you) then we will not want the façade damaged by such exposure and accordingly the prospect of a hoover happening will be diminished.

  1. Energy levels

If you enter our sphere of influence when energy levels are lower as a consequence of lower fuel provision, then the hoover may be regarded as not worth the effort. If, however there is easy accessibility and the prospective fuel gain is considered to be significant then even low energy levels would not be a dissuading factor but if there are other factors as above in place which would prove difficult then when we have low energy levels this makes us less inclined to want to perform the hoover. This situation may arise where we are still embedding a new primary source after your escape or we may not have one yet and we are reliant on fuel from primary sources. If the hoover is perceived as having hurdles and energy levels are low, even though you may have entered a sphere of influence, we may look elsewhere for fuel and not engage in a hoover.

  1. The Type of Narcissist


The particular type we are has a bearing also. The Lesser will be looking for easy gains, low-hanging fruit and immediate results. The immediacy is important. Lacking the calculation of the Mid-Range and Greater, he will be inclined to hoover if you are in near reach even if there are other hoovers because he is unable to control his thirst for hoover fuel. He will however risk being rebuffed and this will in turn ignite his fury causing him to lash out at you with potential repercussions. If the Lesser does not see an immediate opportunity he will move on. He is akin to an opportunist burglar. The Mid-Range will put a little more effort and planning in but will be cautious in his approach, mindful of the potential repercussions and therefore a few hurdles will put him off. He may apply a little effort to consideration but it does not take too much to cause him to move on. The Greater will need considerable hurdles to prevent a hoover happening when a sphere of influence has been penetrated. If he knows there is very potent hoover fuel he will apply considerable effort, like a well-planned heist, to get those jewels.

These factors need to be taken in consideration with one another to determine the likelihood or not of a hoover happening once the sphere of influence has been penetrated.

46 thoughts on “Raising the Hoover Bar

  1. Leolita says:

    1. Are all sources regarded as the Ns «property» for life, no matter what position in the fuel matrix?

    2. You say that us knowing they are lying and manipulating, and having worked them out, will reduce hoovers. So, in other words, this kind of «challenge» does actually help?

    3. Will a less compliant former IPPS have reduced the risk of future hoovers, after the N has tried everything but only received challenge fuel? Or does this just increase risk of malign hoovering and smearing. (I knew he was lying, and all his sceletons fell out just as I left/ was disengaged from. He knows that I know.)

    4. He tried to hoover me back but I refused. Does this also reduce risk of more hoovers?

    – I do have a solid NC regime. But there is always a risk of meeting him in this small community.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. It does but understand this is only if you have happened to have done that whilst still interacting. Do not make the mistake of continuing to interact to convey “I have you worked out”. This is contrary to NC and you are most likely going to mess it up. The narcissist has to instinctively recognise it, you cannot convey it to the narcissist. Applying and maintaining no contact is far superior with regard to reducing hoovers.
      3. See Kicking the Hornet´s Nest and Smearing and Smear Campaigns.
      4. Difficult to answer as you have not explained what the hoover was and what “refusal” amounted to. There is a difference between a hoover which you do not know about because it did not get through and one which gets through and you say no to.

      1. Leolita says:

        Thank you so much for explaining, HG!

        2. I tried the “I have worked you out” when I escaped first time, and told him I knew he is a narcissist (also used the word psychopath) and explained why. That did not help. He just said “I don’t think you really mean that”. When he managed to hoover me back, I still maintained that he is a narc (after 1 year of NC). I said “it would be better if you just admitted it, then we can speak”. (Yes, I know, I was fooled by my ET). That time he did not deny it. In fact, we talked about another person, who is also a narc. I even said “he is the same type as you”. And he said “most people think that it is only ´Hannibal lector”- types who are like that. But that is not true”. So he has kind of admitted to it, in some ways. But that all changed very fast.

        After I was totally (and unwittingly) ensnared again, I knew he was constantly lying and I called his manipulations many times. I also called him a narcissist many times when he got me angry. He did not accept that, and it always ended with a ST. (More fuel to him). On some occasions, if we were in the same room, I could see that his `angry reactions´ were fabricated, a show he put on, an act – he did it to get more fuel. I would say f x “you are not really angry now, this is just an act, and it does not work. I see through it”. (And on some very rare occasions he even admitted to not really being angry). He would still instinctively try to “get to me” by using other manipulations. I also did not believe most of what he said. This did not help much, he used it to his advantage in the respite periods and for devaluation, f x he could say “Well thats how us narcissists behave”, or “I just called to get more fuel” (just to hang up). Also he was able to blindside me about all the other women he was engaging. The truth is always 1000 times worse than one can imagine, with narcissists, that’s for sure.

        (In the start of my first 6 yrs entanglement, he said that someone (I think it was his mother) had told him that he was a narcissist and given him a book about it. I did not know about narcissism then, and from the setting were in then (the bronze period) I did not believe he was mentally disturbed. – I guess this was a test. So on some level, I think he knows).

        I have not broken NC this time, and my ET is at a much lower level. I now know that there is no way to be able to get him to admit anything, or to have any form of communication again. And I do not want that either.

        3. I will read those again.
        4. I just said no, and that he could call someone else. that was when I broke NC and answered, after 3 days of endless calls from withheld number. That will not happen again. (Has been quiet since that).

  2. Shelf IPSS says:


    1. If the narcissist just has her (shelf IPSS) and another shelf IPSS, but no IPPS and hoovers and realizes that she, a shelf IPSS blocked him on the phone, would he try to text/call/hoover again on another day or week with the same blocked number thinking that maybe she unblocked him?

    2. What if the other IPSS is a IPSS candidate – would he try to hoover the shelf IPSS again with the same number and thought that I described?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      These are matters for consultation owing to the need for additional information.

  3. icelady says:

    I suspect my father to be a Greater Narc. I live apart from my parents /w two kids and been divorced from my ex who is MRN. Three months ago my father got into a rage bc of the noise of the kids and started physically abusing the smaller one. The next day I left with them and since then has been maintaining very low contact (mostly communicating with my mother who is I think an enabler). A few days ago I received e-mail from my father telling stories how he is repairing the house and redecorating the rooms for the kids to have some rest during school holidays and my mother has told me about his endeavours as well inviting to come. Just wanna make sure: hoover, right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is a hoover. I doubt he is a Greater Narcissist. Utilise this to assist you

      1. icelady says:

        Oh OK. I am not interested now in getting a degree in N classification but maybe this will be helpful some time later. Thank you.

        1. icelady says:

          He might be either mid-range or greater narc – I doubt about lesser – as he is able to imitate empathy and is an expert in triangulation, gaslighting, flying monkeys etc, and the entire family unit got isolated from any relatives due to his tactics very long time ago. He had a heart stroke recently and went to bed early that day – he has his own rest regime – kids woke up him and he got into rage. Is it possible for upper school narcs not to control their rage if they are exhausted or bc of health condition? Just curious.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Rage is linked to wounding. The capacity to control it will be affected by fuel levels.

  4. Abe Moline says:


    For a MRN, is it correct to assume that a hoover is not viewed as such by the narcissist?

    I guess it’s still instinct, so they are not aware that they come around because they feel the need to interact with (to reassert control of) a target. For example, assuming the narcissist knows that the target will be somewhere at a certain time, they might justify it to themselves as something like “I also need to be there because , if X is also there, that’s his problem, not mine”.

    1. Abe Moline says:

      “I need to be there because /whatever reason/. If X is also there, that’s his problem, not mine”.

      (sorry, “/whatever reason/” did not show up in my previous comment.)

    2. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely right, Abe.

      1. Abe Moline says:

        Thank you.

  5. Music Lover says:

    What if I never received a hoover? Told narc that he played me, didn’t care about my feelings and that I would no longer be interacting with him. He didn’t see it coming. I believe him to be an upper mid range or greater. I was IPSS.

    1. Music Lover says:

      Actually could be regarded as intimate dirty little secret secondary source, but all of his IPSSs would be secret, so I’m not really sure. He wouldn’t want anyone to know about any of his IPSSs as it would be too damaging to his reputation and family life.

      1. Music Lover says:

        Sorry, forgot to mention that his response to being told that was “Wow. Ok, be happy.”

    2. HG Tudor says:

      1. You may have done but did not recognise it as such.
      2. If you have not it is because there was no Hoover Trigger (yet) or if there was, the Hoover Execution Criteria were not met.

      1. Music Lover says:

        Thank you Mr. Tudor for your reply and insights. Just to clarify, are you suggesting that his reply of “ok, be happy” was a hoover? According to what I have read on your blog, I was of the understanding that an escape would create a massive wound, igniting fury, yet an initial grand hoover was not employed.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I need more information to establish context.

        2. Anm says:

          Music lover,
          His response, “wow, ok be happy”. Was an indicator that he was not wounded. Sorry.
          Narcissist are untrusting. If he really is a narcissist, I can see him taking your declaration of your feelings as an ultimatum to him. He would reject an ultimatum, and make it all out to be a micro issue that doesnt matter in his world.
          I think at this phase, he would only feel wounded if you really did move on, but right now you havent displayed that.

          1. Music Lover says:


            Thank you, I really appreciate your input. I see that I have not communicated very clearly as you and Mr. Tudor have the impression that I am still in communication with narc. I am not. I told the narc how I felt and that I was moving on, to which he responded with his “Ok, be happy” text. I have gone NC since then and have not received any further communications from him. All the aforementioned texts occurred prior to my text informing him of my moving on. I don’t know how he could have taken that as an ultimatum? Could his response just be him exerting his control over his feelings? I am confused as his response does not seem to be a normal one in accordance with the information in Mr. Tudor’s blog. I only stumbled across his blog about a week after I left the narc so I did not realize what I was dealing with at the time. After years of this b.s., I just got fed up, worn down and angry (albeit I was always angry each time I allowed myself to accept the devaluations as this is something that I typically do not accept from others in general). I finally realized and accepted that he didn’t care about me at all. I have read the blog voraciously and listened to at least 100 YouTube audios since stumbling upon it and he most definitely fits the profile of a higher level narc.

          2. Music Lover says:


            Also, it has only been a couple of weeks since my moving on.

          3. honestyrocks777 says:

            The ultimatum word…he told me twice I gave him an “ultimatum”. I didnt. One friend of his didnt like me. I asked him if beings we were early in the relationship and his friend didnt care for me, if he wanted to just move on? Or was he ok with a friend not liking me and continuing the relationship? I knew of these people to be his family. I didnt want to intrude and felt that I was adult enough to say “if you are or are not ok with this aspect, I respect whatever you think we should do.” That’s not how I said it but i was conveying that i was ok if he wanted to have a relationship with someone his friends DID like.

            I didnt mean it as an ultimatum. He heard it as “choose me or choose your friends”. Not at all what I meant.

            Then he felt I gave him an ultimatum about his job. He works for a company that is not very family oriented. It is a single mans job. 6 or 7 days a week. 12 hour days. And 3rd shift. And his sleep would sometimes split. Everything was inconsistent. Hed get called in last minute or have to stay over. Couldnt plan vacations except within 30 days of the vacation. Couldnt plan on holidays etc.

            I asked him how he felt about the job and having a family to tend to. I asked if a man ever looks at his job and whether the family would have time with him etc. I asked if a man ever gets to a point where they will say “I have a family and that is most important, I need to find a job conducive for a family” and he heard that as an ultimatum. I wasnt asking him to leave his job. I wanted to know how he thinks. I wanted to know what to expect in the future. And if we think the same. At the time we were only together for 4 months. I’d never expect someone to leave in a short relationship like that. That’s crazy. But I wanted to see if we were on the same page with how we view work and family life.

            Does anyone else think it sounded like an ultimatum? He claimed I told him it was me or the job. I never did. And it’s what he told his friends.

            By that point in the relationship is when I was recording the conversations because he kept changing what really happened. I told him I was worried for him and why he remembers things the way he does.

            Ugh, but those times he thought it was an ultimatum he broke up. (2 of the 6 times in 6 months.. I kept going back because he could make complete sense and I understood how he could, so I kept trying to work with him) L

      2. Music Lover says:

        Please forgive me if this is a redundant reply as I am new here and I don’t see my reply as being posted.

        Thank you Mr. Tudor for your reply and insights. Just to clarify, are you suggesting that his reply of “Ok, be happy” was a hoover? It is my understanding from reading your blog that an unexpected escape would create a massive wound, igniting fury, but an initial grand hoover was not deployed (not that I want one). Would this be normal to have not received an initial grand hoover? I believe myself to be a super empath and I was pushed too far, sending me into supernova mode and decided that I was done with all his crazy making.

        1. Music Lover says:

          Sorry, I see that this turned out to be redundant. In response to your reply: I was given a corrective devaluation one week prior. I ignored it. 6 hours later he sent me a completely off topic hoover text. Once again, I ignored it. A week later another hoover text arrived to which I responded with the above mentioned escape text.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            No need to apologise.

            I don’t see an escape here as you are still in electronic communication.

            If you need assistance with this, I need to convey more information to you and receive more information from you. Accordingly you are best served organising a consultation with me. Please see the options in the menu bar.

  6. Getting There says:

    HG, a Carrier Empath knows how to smile and do what needs to get done regardless of what is going on inside. If a narcissist were to try to hoover a Carrier Empath, how does the narcissist consider #4, Happy and Contented considering the type of person that the narcissist knows the Carrier Empath to be? Does a determination to hoover, due to #4, only depend on the school or can the cadre of narcissism matter as well? If cadre can matter as well, are Victim Narcissists less likely to ignore the appearance of happiness and content? I do not have relationship experience with a Victim Narcissist so I don’t know, but I assumed that they would be the least likely to hoover if #4. Then again, they are the ones who may have great interest in the Carrier Empaths so maybe that is an actual quality they prefer.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See ‘Jealous of Your Contentment’.
      The school and cadre of the narcissist are each one of the Hoover Execution Criteria factors.
      No, a VM would not ignore it.

      1. Getting There says:

        Thank you, HG, for the recommendation as well as the clarification!

        I reread it and understand more now. I almost responded that a narcissist should know better considering the type of person the empath is (i.e if it is their nature to always put on a good face or not). I then realized the feeling of challenge or wounding is not considering logic and is based on their type of emotional thinking.

    2. mommypino says:

      “a Carrier Empath knows how to smile and do what needs to get done regardless of what is going on inside.”. Wow is that true? I guess I’m not a Carrier Empath. That sounds like a great superpower.

    3. mommypino says:

      Getting There, did you learn that from the Empath Detector?

      1. Getting There says:

        Hi, mommypino.
        I’m sorry for not responding earlier. I wasn’t ignoring you; I don’t get notifications of comments. I happened to be thinking of a situation with another commentator and couldn’t remember where I read it, and saw your comment in looking.
        When I wrote my comment, it was due to my understanding of this part of the Carrier Empath article. “Whilst caught in the dizzying devaluation, some empaths will find themselves despairing and having up days and down days whilst they experience the push and pull behaviours, the Carrier Empath adopts a stoic approach. Inside he or she may be churning but they do their best to maintain a brave face as they seek to remain dependable and forging forward.”

        While looking at that quote again, I realized I projected and overstated the “brave face” for putting on a smile at times. I am a Carrier Empath and have noticed that I will smile at other people while “churning” with hurt or pain inside. It isn’t a real happy smile but it is one.
        I’m sorry for overstating and then causing confusion!
        Have you done an Empath Consult?
        I learned a lot in mine. It has helped explain some stuff.

        1. mommypino says:

          Thank you Getting There! I was just wondering why you were being like that to me, ignoring me. Just kidding!! I figured it was WordPress or you were just too busy. My WordPress does the same thing to me as well. Thank you for the explanation. It sounds like I can cross out the Carrier in the possible empathic cadres. When I am affected by negative people, their effect on me depends on how close they are to me. If they are family members, they do affect my productivity. I still maintain my positivity and try to get work done but the degree of my productivity is indeed affected and also my sleep because I end up ruminating about them and why they are like that. When I see that the negativity was malicious I show a facade that I am not affected by them but it only lasts for a little while. My husband said to me many times that my face always betrayed me. My eyes always show if I’m really happy or upset or sad. And he can also notice that my energy level dramatically drops when I’m sad so he never fails to ask me why because it always shows.
          I want to do the empath detector someday. Right now it’s too pricey for and I’m embarrassed to ask my husband for money. But when school starts and I’m back to work I want to do one.

          1. Getting There says:

            LOL, mommypino! What can I say? I’m just rude that way. LOL
            That is great and romantic that your husband knows you so well and shows he cares by paying attention to you and asking you!! I think being positive regardless is such an amazing trait!

            Oh I lose sleep. I spend a lot of time thinking when I should sleep. When something first happens, I don’t have a poker face either. Give me a short time to adjust and the Carrier style turns on usually (may be why my ex husband didn’t do the silent treatment). The ability to push forward and look on the outside nothing like what is going on in the inside helps things get done but has caused issues for me. Bundled up feelings will seep out in other ways or just wanting to shut down emotionally. Also, I was good at not telling people what was happening in my relationships; and the fact that I could give a smile of some kind and not let my feelings block productivity, meant people couldn’t tell anything was wrong. Even now family and friends can’t tell when negative things are happening unless I tell them. There is a secret, though. No matter if I smile or act like all is ok, my eyes can give me away. One has to truly look and know. I don’t think my ex husband picked up on it on his own nor did his knowledge seem to impact anything. I think my latest entanglement would have figured it out if we had lived together as he paid a lot of attention to my eyes.

            I hope you are able to do an empath consult this fall then! There are things in HG’s article about Carrier that don’t match me. There was a reason why you first thought you were one so maybe you are a Carrier but maybe your mix of type of empath shows through in how you respond.

          2. mommypino says:

            Getting There, Thank you for clarifying. I think I can still be a Carrier Empath then. I was thinking I might be a Carrier because of the article describing it as the empath who does things to help. I feel that I have some Magnet but I think it says that a Magnet doesn’t dirty his/her hands helping and that’s not the case for me because I did help people like I took care of my dad when he was dying and I did stuff for the other narcs like driving my MRE sister around when she didn’t have a car and housing her and with my stepdaughters I did all kinds of stuff for them because I was trying to make them like me to make my husband happy and they only responded positively to me whenever I did something for them or gave them gifts. I also support my matrinarc financially. I was also able to continue finishing school despite of the crazy life that I had with my matrinarc. So with all of those things that I did for people and my survival skills, I think I am a Carrier. But my way of thinking or attitude is similar to the description of Magnet. With the Geyser, I can relate to being able to recover after having a good cry really fast but my mannerisms and demeanors are not exaggerated or histrionic. My demeanors are actually quite reserved and serene which is the description of the Magnet. With the Savior, I can relate to the temper but not the outlook of wanting to save and that the world is a terrible or dangerous place. I think that the world is a lovely and wonderful place actually and I see all of the good in little things around me like the flowers and the animals and the rainbows lol. I used to live in a slum area and I could still see the beauty of my surroundings in a different way (I’m that weird). So I am torn between Carrier and Magnet for now. I am curious about what I will find out this fall.

            It does sound hard to be a Carrier. It is hard to have things be bottled up inside. It does remind me of what people say that the people who are strong and always willing to help and listen are usually the ones who are going through difficulties. It also sounds like some of the Carrier traits can be a positive for the narc like you not opening up with what is going on with you to your friends and family is good for their facade management and avoiding accountability. And it is interesting that your ex husband knew that he wouldn’t get fuel with giving you silent treatments because you would have just carried on with your errands lol. It’s kind of a double edged sword of being both a strength and a vulnerability.

          3. Getting There says:

            What an amazing quality you have, mommypino, to find the beauty in the world regardless of the situation you are dealing with or the environment around you! I wish more people, myself included, would be like that!
            I do try to find the positive and purpose in everything but not like that. The fact that you take care of others in all facets of their lives, whether they are nice to you or not, shows your compassion and that you are a doer.

            It sounds like you have a great mix of the different schools of empathy!

            Before taking the empath consult, I recognized aspects of myself in Magnet and Savior, as well as Carrier. I thought that HG would say that I am a savior codependent. I want to help others. When I heard about the recent Ebola outbreak, I wanted to go there and help in whatever way possible. I just heard of a story of a woman, in my office, who has to walk to work from a bus stop that is not close in all weather and has two jobs. My first thought was “how can I get her a car.” I realized I couldn’t get her a car. As much as I want to help, I know my limits though. When I actually do help or do something nice, I prefer that people don’t know that it was me. I don’t know if that is a Carrier trait or just me being weird.

            It will be exciting to see which one HG thinks is your primary one.

          4. mommypino says:

            Getting There, you have so many amazing qualities as well. I’m so honored to meet people like you here even though we don’t really know each other but I feel that Empaths is a really cool club to belong to. We’re definitely not saints and we have our flaws and faults but I don’t think that anybody opens their hearts to others as empaths do. It’s a wonderful heart that you have that is always wanting to help those in need and lift them up and make it better. I wish that more people are like you. One of my favorite quotes when I was younger (although it’s one of the things that I am shedding off in my personal metamorphosis) is what Voltaire said, “Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.” And I think you should be one who should not have any guilt or maybe just the least guilt because you are definitely always willing to do good for others and help. It is a beautiful quote which has been my personal motto for years but now I am letting go of it because I am trying to be more selfish this time lol.

          5. Getting There says:

            Oh, mommypino! Thank you so much! You are very sweet! This weekend was another time I wished I could not be an empath as that is the part of me that keeps me “embracing the suck” (a phrase I heard and liked). Then I came here and found strength from you and others. Thank you for that as well!
            I didn’t know that quote but have lived by it.
            That’s awesome that you have decided to allow yourself positive change! I am raising a glass to your metamorphosis!🍷🍹 Ok, two glasses. LOL

          6. mommypino says:

            Lol thank you Getting There!! I love that phrase ‘embracing the suck’. Thank you for that Getting There. I think it’s a perfect phrase. If I ever catch myself embracing the suck again I can tell myself to let go of that suck lol. Well this week there will be no suck for me because I’m at Disneyland with my family and as we all know it’s the happiest place on earth. Although being in the car all day yesterday was no fun but at least I was stuck with the people I love and they were stuck with me too. Cheers to our metamorphosis and I was thinking, we don’t have to be selfish but just need to choose better on who gets to be a part of our generous hearts. Have a wonderful week Getting There and hopefully next weekend will be a hundred times better than last weekend. 😘💕💕

          7. Getting There says:

            I like how you described the metamorphosis!

            Have a great time in Disneyland! What wonderful memories for you and your family and definitely not a place for embracing the suck!

      2. Getting There says:

        I forgot to add that the internal “churning,” for me, can also be trying to figure out mind boggling confusion or even anger.

  7. Xico says:

    Does the narc Hoover if you left them and cheated on them with somebody else and then they think you cheated on them all along (not true) and also called them out on their narcissm?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The narcissist will hoover you if there is a Hoover Trigger (of which there is always a risk) and if the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
      The factors you refer to :-

      1. Leaving the narcissist – this wounds the narcissist. However, dependent on your position within the fuel matrix and the fuel needs of the narcissist, this is likely to cause the narcissist to apply an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back under control.
      2. Cheating on the narcissist – this wound the narcissist and pushes the hoover bar upwards.
      3. Accusation of narcissism – this most likely will have been Challenge Fuel and therefore will lower the hoover bar.

      What you need to understand is that there are many factors which are applicable in the HEC (not just the ones you have referred to) and therefore this impacts on the prospects of being hoovered. I can tell you how one single factor will influence the hoover bar (moving it high or low) BUT that one factor cannot be viewed in splendid isolation, there will be other factors which could override that factor one way or the other. You are best organising a consultation with me so you can provide me with more information and I can then provide you with more information to help you.

      1. Xico says:

        Thank you for taking the time to reply to me I really appreciate it. My ex bf has also accused me of things that aren’t true and I provided him with the evidence but he kept adding other delusional cheating claims my way. He has a new gf now and has completely disappeared changed numbers blocked me everywhere etc. there was the initial grand Hoover but I declined this but changed my mind afterwards. He told me he doesn’t hate me but tht he thinks I am ill with borderline personality disorder and claimed that’s why I cheat and lie. This is not true. I really don’t think he will ever come back as he also believes that I have a boyfriend. Would this be low likelihood of Hoover? I am struggling to get over him immensely

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. There is always a risk of a hoover. Your emotional thinking cons you into thinking there will not be so you lower your guard.
          2. You remain at risk of being hoovered and a high risk owing to your high emotional thinking.
          I advocate you consult with me so you can move forward and understand your vulnerability to being hoovered as your comments shows you are being misled now by your ET.

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