More Confessions of a Narcissist
A further insight into the dark and manipulative mind of the narcissist. Learn all about how this covert and dangerous individual thinks, acts and behaves. It is an invaluable excursion into the blackened heart of one of the devil’s lieutenants. An incisive and direct series of confessions which will alarm and alert. Unmissable.
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Hg
Any articles on brain fog & emotional abuse?
Brain fog is emotional thinking. Emotional abuse is covered in some of the material in the book Manipulated.
HG,
I understand “brain fog” to be the cognitive impairment that can result from narcissististic abuse and emotional abuse.
Are you saying that:
“brain fog = emotional thinking” ?
Brain fog is not understanding and/or failing to apply logic and/or applying flawed logic. That is ET.
Okay. So brain fog is emotional reasoning applied to
a situation where straight forward application of logic should be used.
I guess I don’t categorize emotions under “cognitive functions” – even though I utilize emotions in my reasoning. So, it’s the unconscious aspect of me applying emotions in my thinking process that equals: brain fog.
I think that’s the foggiest part.
Jesus – no wonder I have to keep coming back to this place.
Brain fog can be substantial. I could barely tie my shoes until last summer, and only late fall/early winter did I feel the majority of my better capacity as returned. I was extremely limited. It was quite humbling to end up so sick overall.
Lorelei,
I think the very fact that I “dumbed” down my life during my entanglement. For example, simplifying my work and intellectual commitments etc. – by giving up my good job for a simpler life, may have actually been a saving grace (even though it resulted in isolation) by not over extending my mental and emotional faculties).
Possibly this may have been a positive factor in your situation as well, because clearly neither of us are intellectual schleps – although we may have felt that way at the end of our relationships.
Whocares—I couldn’t do simple mathematics in my head and I can usually throw out quick answers. Not kidding. I was lacking luster to plan two steps ahead. My administrative assistant “carried” me in my last job, it’s undeniable. I noticed a shift in capacity in the summer to a degree, but more a return to normalcy around the beginning of Dec. I’m not sure why I note this date, but there was some realization at the time.
I actually prefer my current job though—it works for many reasons.
Hello Lorelei,
You wrote: ” It will be interesting how my break-down is viewed by my own children”.
I thought I might share a similar (?) experience I had, and hope it helps.
I broke down completely back in 2012, following years on end of stress. I had recently managed to escape Matrinarc then, and separated from a narcissistic partner at the same time. Add problems at work into the equation, and that was me, I totally collapsed. My children were 11 and 17 at the time. I could not take care of them for some weeks, had to ask a friend for help with this.
I worried a lot about both the impact on my children, and on my intellectual abilities because I really, really, had no energy left whatsoever. I couldn’t even do my shopping: I didn’t have a clue anymore where everything was in the supermarket I always went to, it was that bad.I literally could not put a foot in front of the other, had to leave the supermarket and shopped online for a good few months afterwards.
And the good news is that even though my 11-year-old daughter seemed very upset and scared of what was happening to me then, there has been no lasting negative effect at all on her. She remembers all right, and it is a bad memory for her, but she is fine. As for my son, he told me afterwards that he wasn’t worried as he ‘knew’ that I would pull out of it, This struck me as very optimistic of him because he obviously did not fully realise in what state I was…
I had to be off work for over two years to get back on track, and before I went back to work I actually took an IQ test for the first time in my life, as I thought it had deeply and definitely affected my abilities.
Well, apparently it had not, and the professional who gave me the tests explained that even severe stress and a breakdown do not impair your intellect. It drains you of your energy (and I believe you can develop serious physical illnesses from stress), but your intellectual abilities stay the same and once you have overcome that stress and breakdown, your brain starts functioning as it did before. After all, I heard that you actually grow neurons all your life.
And that professional was right, this is what has happened to me. It took time, but everything is back to normal now.
It does take time, but it will all come back. And your children will be fine, especially if you can talk to them about it, now (briefly, maybe) and later, when all is well. And it WILL be.
Thank you fiddleress—it’s been a while since the before/after for their memory, or the event but I’m cautious as I don’t want to triangulate with their father over who did what etc—to them. It’s interesting you took that time for yourself from work. I am taking time off—decided yesterday. I never did that and feel it’s needed. I’m taking off for 8 weeks. I may not return. It will unfortunately not be paid at 100% which hurts, but it’s necessary because I’m at a place where I’m stuck. I also likely need to find a day job again for some child care related concerns due to my ex’s new job/travel requirements. I’m a bit startled about the sudden changes but I have little choice.
Lorelei:
How will this affect your degree program? Have classes continued online? Does any part of your funding come through your workplace?
This is a very strange time. I looked on state government job listings, figuring it got me through grad school when I ran out of funding, saw some good possibilities, but there’s a hiring freeze.
Applying anyway. So weird that just a few weeks ago I was planning to visit the East Coast and see about moving back.
The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men….
Enough impact to finish this current class and stop until it’s over.
Violetta—sorry I was so brief. I was half asleep. Here is the problem.. Key figures are working on just COVID, so my project can’t proceed as I was going to use a low income clinic for my project. First, all individuals of influence are wrapped up in this—and it’s a face to face project so telemedicine is taking over many outpatient visits. It’s too complicated to continue this project on the required timeline. I can strategize an alternate plan dealing with an entirely different subject and I’ve been brainstorming. I have to get clever quickly though, but I have to avoid a lot of red tape. Not impossible but may not be worth the effort. I’ll finish this class and likely (as I said) go on pause mode. I do have one idea that relates to the personal protective equipment shortage, but you can’t really have controls ahead of time—it would be a retrospective review (of??) and very difficult to extract data. I’m really, quite stuck. Many of us in life are stuck period due to this. Kids will not return to school this year. They were online with their teachers this morning in fact. We are under a state wide “stay at home” order. I see the order staying put until a decline in cases is well under way. They won’t abandon such measures haphazardly. Did you see the Olympics moved up a year? I am a little surprised by the rapid shift from where we were say, three weeks ago. I do however understand the strategy and I support it, although, the economic ramifications will be history book material alongside the health outcomes.
Lorelei, do you have any thoughts on the coming waves of the virus (second wave in the fall, third late winter/early spring)? I mentioned in a different post that historically the second wave is most often worse than the first (e.g. 1918 flu) for a variety of reasons.
FYC—I spouted off a few things that may have just been put through. I talk to MPH/MD’s quite a bit but not this past week. I will note to update you as I get good information. I do receive a daily report on suspected cases that “rule in” positive. It’s low compared to suspected cases. I’m off work for awhile so I’m not around anyone to have discussions. I will say that I think drinking Medella instead of Corona is the way to go. I’m sipping on a Michelob ultra before 1700 in fact!
Lorelei, and here I would have thought you would be drinking organic gin and tonic in lieu of Hydroxychloroquine!
I had four beers and a three hour nap. It was forced upon me from the government.
The beer or the nap?!
Haha FYC!
Good blameshifting on Lorelei’s part though!
Yes, WhoCares, I was unaware of the government’s beer stimulus package!
Pahaha!
Both FYC! I lost hours of my life. It was glorious. Maybe by next week I will need rehab for alcohol help if I keep it up. They have us locked down for weeks right now.
Remarkable govt connections you have, Lorelei. I have yet to receive a beer stimulus package delivery. Easy as you go though!
FYC—I don’t need it often. I did when living with a narcissist. Have you ever shared a residence with one? It’s miserable. I’d rather swat bugs in a mediocre tent. I’m certain there is community agreement on the alternative scenario in the tent. The tent is peaceful and the silence not passive aggressive.
Lorelei, I have an N parent and N sibling, so yes, but I avoided living with a narcissist romantically (but dated several and was engaged to one once, but I broke it off for good reason). I was only teasing you because I thought you were being funny. I do not judge you and I am sincerely sorry you have gone through so much pain.
No, I am okay with teasing. I did not think a thing of it and actually think it is funny that I always end up falling asleep. I am a shitty drinker. I am fun for five minutes and then out like a light! I have been married to two narcissists and my father as well as his mother and my mother’s father all narcissists with no question. I find this situation increasingly complicated, and am certain if I’d known the work required I am not sure I would have signed up for it. I appreciate your thoughtful replies. I really only have one ultimate goal and it is to mitigate further damage to the kids. It is my primary aim. I want to teach them as much about healthy relationships as possible as I had no such guidance. My happiness is second to their ongoing wellness. I can’t even fathom bringing a man around them and work hard to role model the opposite of what their father is generating as ongoing embarrassing nonsense. It is working. They are motivated in school, honors classes, afraid to say bad words, etc. Even my oldest daughter with the issues has the social graces of Kate Middleton and is well read. There are successes. I am hopeful that my efforts will pay off for them.
Lorelei, It sounds like you have already succeeded in many ways. Kids are never challenge free and are growing and learning all the time just like we are (hopefully). You have a noble intent and I feel certain as your kids mature they will see that and probably do already, but kids have to find their own way and learn from mistakes too. I truly am sorry for all you have endured, but you have great strength and venting your frustrations here is good therapy, because we all know what you are dealing with and can genuinely sympathize without judgement. The teasing is only the affectionate variety and meant to bring a smile.
FYC—I just got my second update for the day. They were daily updates, now twice a day. Here’s a bit of info—my metro area is just over a million people. For simplicity let’s pretend all three major health systems are of equal size. We have 4 people in our system in intensive care. That’s it. First peak is regionally estimated at five to six weeks out. Overall a 40-70% illness rate (at some point) in the population. The stats will vary even within the region, or other regions depending on demographics. I’m optimistic of vaccine development re, impact of “next wave” but not overly. I’m cautious the info I discuss is accurate. I’m worried about the health of some of my street clientele. They are very vulnerable. Shelters do not allow for much distance.
Thank you very much, Lorelei, interesting update.
Lorelei:
It may be possible for you to get an extension from your institution. They’re a little stricter on time limits to finish a program with individuals, but since this is global, you may have more leeway, so if things ever stabilize, think about asking them. They don’t want to lose a whole lot of students, and if they are hardliners about this, that could happen.
It’s weird. When I was part-time at F.U. and wondering if I would have to tap a rollover from a previous job, I was very circumspect about my HG library: a few books that applied directly to my situation, some of the cheaper informative material, and several kind Tudoristas have donated items.
Now that my “retirement” (yeah, right) funds have plummeted along with the stock market and I have no idea if I’ll be able to wait it out until (if?) they come back, I sprang for the Work Narc Assistance package (at the discounted rate). I figure if I survive all this, it might help me get a job, let alone keep one. God (even if HG doesn’t believe in one) knows I have dealt (not very successfully) with these folks all my life, from elementary school through grad school, let alone the workforce.
And if I don’t survive all this, it won’t make any difference how skint I get.
Trump’s a blow-hard, but he’s right about one thing: this is like living in Wartime. Your ideas of which things go on the back burner change remarkably.
Correct, but these projects require the IRB process and it’s all a mess. It’s evolving daily discussion. The market is down 30%—quickest drop ever in our lifetime. Don’t fret. This IS the time to invest. We do not know where the lowest point will be, but the stimulus package will drive the market up, so invest anything you can today before that occurs. If I had free cash that is.. I think I’m a slave to schooling my children for the next decade. Tuition is really expensive in the U.S.
Lorelei:
I have nothing to invest, so unless I close an account to pay bills, I’ll just be leaving everything there.
Have to say, I’m glad I took all those crappy temp jobs when I was doing theatre in NY. I can always get an office job. I might be rejected as “overqualified” if I’m not willing to conceal the PhD, but if they’re desperate enough, they’ll take anyone reasonably competent. During grad school I decided I wanted to go camping instead of teach one summer, so I signed with a temp agency. I showed up in a nice suit (thrift shop) with a portfolio containing extra resumes and clippings. I sat in a waiting room with a few people dressed like me, but far more wearing low-rise jeans, crop tops, flip-flops, etc.
Things may have changed, but they even be worse now…the state tests covered manners as well as grammar, spelling, and basic arithmetic. There were multiple choice questions such as:
Q: If a client yelled at me over the phone, I would:
1. Hang up on the client
2. Yell back at the client
3. Ask the client if he/she would like my supervisor to clarify agency procedures
4. Quit my job
I thought most applicants would at least have the sense to lie about what they’d do, even if the moment they got the job, they’d be rude any time they thought they could get away with it (ask me about that temp job in promotions some time), but the HR staffer said she’d seen people answer all kinds of things.
Understand Violetta. I plan to put my kids through school and then suffocate. That is my life goal. I am done with dating, I have some interests clearly. Mostly—I just want peace, and this peace includes having my eyebrows waxed under this secret quarantine.
WhoCares, This is an interesting conversation. I would agree that if one were armed with what we learn here at KTN and applied logic, this would greatly reduce (or eliminate) exposure to repeated abuse, confusion, cognitive dissonance and most of all chronic stress that is associated with brain fog resulting from abuse.
For those who have not yet had the benefit of this insight or the time to integrate or enact the same, they would experience chronic stress. My understanding is that chronic stress leads to increased and sustained release of cortisol contributing to cognitive impairment. In referring back to an article I read a while back, “It can disrupt synapse regulation, resulting in the loss of sociability and the avoidance of interactions with others. Stress can kill brain cells and even reduce the size of the brain. Chronic stress has a shrinking effect on the prefrontal cortex, the area of the brain responsible for memory and learning.”
So I would say that yes, emotional thinking absolutely leads to stress and confusion, which leads to poor decisions, which feeds back into a loop of more abuse, and more emotional thinking, with devastating effects. Logic frees us from this vicious cycle of chronic stress; primarily because we GOSO and enforce NC. Even if any ongoing communication is necessary, we see the N behaviors for what they are and can apply LT and choose to cease giving them energy. In general I think ET leads to many unintended effects. I know it did for me until I practiced what I learned in Zero Impact.
Emotions are like the ocean and LT is the rudder of your ship (you) that keeps you on track. When a storm hits, you lower your sails and batten down the hatch (NC), and fasten your rudder (enforce LT), until calm reemerges (what you achieve when you mentally and emotionally reject the effects of N abuse).
I hope your exN’s recent attempts have not threatened to set you off course. Stay the course. You will prevail.
One of the major problems with Emotional Thinking is people can have trouble recognizing which emotions are really theirs, and which are part of the brainwashing.
According to US Weekly, ‘Prince Harry is “adamant” that it was his call to officially move to Canada, and not his wife Meghan Markle’s.’
He probably believes it, too.
Violetta,
“‘Prince Harry is “adamant” that it was his call to officially move to Canada, and not his wife Meghan Markle’s.’”
I would not be surprised if Harry has some Martyr traits in his empathic make up.
And I actually get triggered (stomach clenching, wanting to hyperventilate) when I read those words of Harry’s… because they cause me flashbacks to my entanglement.
FYC,
It *is* in an interesting conversation, thanks for your contributions. And I am glad that Cloudy asked the original question.
Yes, I haven’t read the literature (much) on this, as you have, but I understand that it does cause significant cognitive damage which is sometimes permanent. I actually wonder how much, over the duration of childhood (especially during formative years), that this affects learning deficits etc. It’s all very fascinating and clearly you have done some research in this area. The whole bit about stress killing brains cells is a scary reality.
Sometimes I have difficulty in my own head working out HG’s term (although they make it easier for all to discuss the central topic) but if I apply my own terms, at this time, I save myself some brain fog!
As for my own situation right now, thanks to the kind (and intelligent) actions of some resourceful empaths – you among them – and one very important narcissist (who knows who he is) I was able to think logically and effectively and short circuit my ex’s attempts to throw me off course.
WhoCares, I am thrilled to hear that. Well done! Yes, I did a bit of research at the peak of my stress that had been ongoing for several months due to an unavoidable event with my familial N. During that time I also was not getting much sleep which compounds the effects of chronic stress. I then reached out to HG and asked if Zero Impact would help in my situation and he affirmed it would. ZI delivers brilliant epiphanies (as you know) and I followed the advice and practiced it until it became second nature. This took time, but it has made all the difference. Reading here ongoing and acquiring other packages, such as those on ET and addiction, helped as well. It is not that I am addicted to my N or their abuse, but the cycle of abuse is so familiar that it becomes a kind of norm with that person. I did not see the options that I clearly had. Now I do and I opt out of that stressful abuse regularly. It has been life-changing.
I opt out too!
FYC,
“emotional thinking absolutely leads to stress and confusion, which leads to poor decisions, which feeds back into a loop of more abuse, and more emotional thinking, with devastating effects. Logic frees us from this vicious cycle of chronic stress; primarily because we GOSO and enforce NC. Even if any ongoing communication is necessary, we see the N behaviors for what they are and can apply LT and choose to cease giving them energy.”
Yes, by applying HG’s work we avoid this loop.
We make new associations in the brain to the narcissist’s behaviour (and bypass our old associations – and therefore, old circuitry) and form new, more logical associations, to the narcissist’s behaviour and the more we do this, while implementing NC, the more we reinforce those new associations and new brain circuitry.
Exactly!
But ask me to explain that five minutes from now, FYC, and it won’t happen. Because: brain fog.
WC, Hahaha. Just eat well and get good rest. All of your repair happens during your sleep. Don’t worry about any permanent damage, you have plenty of brain cells–more than you will ever need. You will be sharp as ever very soon. Ever think of trying a form of meditation? It retrains your brain’s default mode network to halt repetitive or negative thoughts or worries.
FYC,
Thank-you for the suggestion. Yes to eating and sleeping well! Sometimes people downplay the importance of this. I know, even for my son that eating (or not eating the right stuff) can affect his ability to manage his emotions.
As for meditation, I had the opportunity to do some guided (in person) meditation in a group setting this past summer. I couldn’t really do the whole excercise because the combination of relaxing my body and the inner imagery actually just ended up allowing a torrent of emotion through. And then I couldn’t focus on the act of meditating – all I wanted to do was exit that room because I was with people, so I just fumbled through the motions until it was over. The mental imagery that set it off was being told to think of some kind act of self care – which I realized I couldn’t recall the last act of self-care I had engaged in. And then I couldn’t stop and get the tsunami under control because of the relaxation techniques. So it was an enlightening experience but not an enjoyable one. I am not quite as stressed anymore though – well, new stressors but not the same level of intensity.
I am better off engaged in a hands on activity that is very tactile – like creating of some sort – which gets me completely out of my head. Or perhaps simple breathing techniques might work that keep attention focused in the body.
Guided meditation is different than regular meditation. It’s purpose is to help you fully embrace your emotions and then to bring resolution. Regular meditation is more about being in the present. When distractions arise (they do for most unless very experienced meditators) the idea is to return your focus to the now. The simplest form of meditation is just focus on your breathing. But there are many forms of meditation and I am not that informed, but many have recommended it to me so I tried it during my stressful period and it really did help and I still do from time to time. I prefer to go out in nature and focus on absorbing the experience instead of being caught up in my thoughts (and you know I enjoy thinking about things!). I do think doing tactile things could have the same effect though. I think whatever brings you peace and helps you refocus and get away from any fears or manipulations would be a gift. The only origami I remember from childhood is the cup. It actually holds water too.
FYC,
Yes, I think the guided meditation experience I had was helpful in that it clearly identified a problem area for me and brought the pain to the surface – much more emphatically than someone saying “You should find time for self-care!” (I just really would have wished to not be in a group of people at that time.)
I don’t have enough experience with meditation either to really have an opinion on it, but it is something that I have never gravitated towards. I can, however, appreciate breathing exercises that focus attention on the body and the present. I experienced noticing how shallow my breathing had been during entanglement when, post-escape, I got to cuddle (without narcissist’s intervention) with my cat. His purring and vibrating, when sitting on my lap, made me conscious of my breathing and I realized that I wasn’t inflating the the full capacity of my lungs. A similar excercise can be done by laying flat on the floor (I tried this with my son but he just erupted into the giggle fits) and placing a book on your lower belly and concentrating on raising the book up as you breathe in and watching it fall as you fully exhale. This very simple and helpful in times of stress – and can be done with (non giggling) children.
There is also a book I know that is very good for teaching children simple meditation and breathing exercises – it may also help with rambunctious or anxious children stuck at home lately: Pudge Learns to Meditate. (It’s about a dragon learning meditation skills etc, and has fun, cheerful illustrations.)
I agree with that walks in nature are ideal for clearing our thoughts. Creative endeavors that are not too complex are good because they refocus the brain on something that isn’t super demanding – even those ‘grown up’ colouring books can a potential good choice.
I think once we are no contact with our narcissist, there are many ways in which we can direct and focus our energies on healing.
WhoCares and FYC
Is screaming in your head considered meditation? Because I can totally do that like a champ. Meditation that involves bending into a pretzel that causes the filling of your tights with farts? – not so much.
Seriously though, most people don’t realize how shallow they are breathing. Just being still for a few minutes and inhaling deeply to expand your lungs is beneficial. In times of stress if you breathe in deeply through your nose until your chest fully expands, hold the breath a few seconds, and then fully release slowly through the mouth, it forces you to calm. I’m surprised at how many people don’t know this simple technique (although weed smokers are proficient at the technique it but still depend on the substance).
Haha NA,
“I’m surprised at how many people don’t know this simple technique (although weed smokers are proficient at the technique it but still depend on the substance).”
Some of us need the technical pointers!
Seriously though, you’re right; very few people know how shallow their breathing is – unless it is brought to their attention – and how unhealthy doing that is, on a long term basis.
NA. Actually that leotard, farting, pretzel stuff is yoga, not medication. Haha…Meditation is more about being fully present in the moment and not letting your mind race off to the thoughts that want to make you scream. Breathing is a big part of it. Taking one deep breath, holding it for a moment and exhaling in a measured way is a micro meditation. Breathing is a very important part of meditation. There are many kinds of meditation and I am no expert, but I do know that it is shown (in studies) to nullify pain, lower blood pressure, and for experts, dramatically increase the mind’s cognitive processing. So maybe the next time you are practicing that scream in your head, hold those thoughts at bay and focus on your breathing instead.
By the way, I hope you do not mind me asking here, but how are things going with the situation with your sister? I know I would scream more than once in my head with that situation and how you have been treated. I know you are stronger than nearly anyone, but you deserve so much more.
Also, I am glad to see you commenting more. I feel a bit cheated if I do not see your superhero gravatar appear daily, because I very much enjoy your point of view.
FYC
I imagine meditation is a tough nut for those who are ACON’s or have been engaged with narcissists for long periods because of the learned behaviour/feeling of having to always think a step ahead. Not to say that it can’t be done, and it certainly is worth a shot. The screaming/shouting in my head began while I was young and denied a voice, but it persists today. I am generally calm, but my mind is seldom still. Pictures flash rapidly. They can be of things that have actually happened (say childhood memory) or things that are just a possibility (a car accident or harm coming to someone for example). They seldom bother me and can also just be relatively harmless snapshots or memories. If they are negative, I reject them by “swiping” them away. If they are particularly disturbing or persistent I scream/yell NO! until they leave. I believe this allowed me (while young) to believe that I still had some form of control over the abuse. That my actions would have to appear to comply, but I could still rebel where they could not have access. Part of that included breathing. Holding your breath when you anticipate danger and then slowly expelling it (as not to draw attention) when the danger passed and there was relief. Who knew I was meditating! I believe studies would show that employing these methods can also help in preventing incarceration for various forms of physical assault haha. Sorry, long way around saying we can, and should, investigate other methods of relaxation when possible.
I don’t mind you asking at all. I heard through my mother that my sister is looking at options regarding postponing the wedding. That caused some swiping just now haha. Anything that buys more time is good by me.
Thank you for your most kind comment. I’ve been feeling as time goes on that I have probably said it all. I have been considering the relevance of any contributions, and have found that I read more than comment now, although it may not seem that way to some, and the comments tend to be fewer but lengthier (sorry for the extra reading in moderating, HG).
I’ll try to work on a better balance.
Oh dear distant friend, you have just gotten started. Redouble your efforts. There is an ever growing, new population of empaths that need you. They will not apply the diligence to read the archives. Even if they do, they will feel cheated that you are not still here. My experience here would not have been the same with out you. You are one soul I truly identify with and respect and have had so much joy from your wonderful, logical, kind, humorous and unique views on the world. You must stay and be active (if you are willing).
As for your sister, thank God for small miracles. Perhaps the delay will give the opportunity for her to see the light of day. You never know. I especially do not want their BS to back up on you. Not acceptable.
Forgive me, HG, for speaking on your behalf, but, I feel certain that HG greatly values your contributions and is keenly aware of the value you add. He is highly intelligent and your value is not lost on him, or on me. Do not concern yourself with your word count. Yours is not the content that HG loathes reading I am sure. So thank you, and please proceed.
Agreed.
Thank you very much, HG.
Also, NA, as an ACoN, I have never not been around a narcissist. I find that being aware of what is important is actually entirely in the now. The past cannot be changed, the future is yet to be, but in the now, we have choices and we determine our choices and experience. The drama and stress created by the Ns is, in reality, irrelevant. Nothing more than a shifting manipulative attempt because it is what they need. I do sincerely appreciate the frustration that can exist, and the desire to “thought scream,” but, better still, is the success of realizing that it matters not at all in the now. Not really. In and of yourself, you are fabulous and unaffected by the N struggles and efforts. Wishing you the very best. Stay safe and healthy.
NA, I’ve missed your comments too. You are an example of strength that so many of us need and strive for after the abuse. While considering the relevance of your contributions also consider how many lives you’ve helped change. Seriously think about that because it’s not a small thing. If anyone ask how I was able to get through my experience, your name would be on my list. HG provides us with the knowledge we need but he kinda lacks in the emotional support department (No offense HG, you make up for it with your intellect and charming personality and humor. I could go on). I understand needing a break once in a while but please never ever doubt your value here.
I’m sure I’ll get the eye roll from critics that hate displays of appreciation but I don’t care. I’m not going to sensor that stuff anymore.
No offence taken, that is not my role as you all know.
NarcAngel,
“I’ve been feeling as time goes on that I have probably said it all. I have been considering the relevance of any contributions, and have found that I read more than comment now”
For what it’s worth, I also would appreciate seeing more of Catwoman’s face around here. (Although, I recognize that sometimes is better to just read and not comment – dependent upon what is going on in my personal life.) So, like – no pressure! However…
You leave an impression on people; both FYC and Mercy have also commented on their particular observations.
You were one of the more active, and colourful, commenters when I first started reading here. Whether you are making observations, offering support, cracking jokes or just giving some straight shooting advice, you have an effect on people. Sometimes that effect results in someone forming an opinion of you that is based on little evidence – or a skewed perspective. But you weather those reactions with more style than some and that takes strength and resilience (probably born out of your childhood): that’s admirable.
I especially admire your confidence and forthrightness with a whole lot of sensitivity and awareness added to the mix – not many empaths can pull that off.
I cannot speak for others but –
I am glad I have stuck around long enough to get to know you. And honestly, yours and others’ conversations were partly what drew me to the comment section and kept me here.
FYC–the most profound thing out of the entire experience is how I crumbled intellectually, and could not make decent decisions. Incredible. It was what allowed me to make the connection to watching my own mother crumble. She had nothing to give for a long time. I remember she probably didn’t speak to me really for a few years—we existed in our home because no one had any energy to give based on my father exhausting everyone, but mainly her. She was caught up in a mess that created terrible health issues. I recall one day she did my hair and never again. She never spoke to me. We never even celebrated birthdays because she broke down and stayed broken down. I lived in a twilight zone. It will be interesting how my break-down is viewed by my own children. My oldest daughter is deeply impacted, that is an interesting legacy to try and reconfigure. The younger children may have an alternative view though because they are young enough to absorb a different perspective as I am highly functioning now. (still a mess–but it’s not so visible) Lots of damage done but lots of opportunity as well.
Lorelei, I am very sorry to hear this. Pain travels down generations for sure. Kids are surprisingly resilient and they can sniff out hypocrisy a mile away. You do not strike me as a hypocrite, just a bit overwhelmed. In time, as you remain strong and continue to honor your own wellbeing and theirs, they will notice. I think if you are honest with what you were experiencing and that you are sorry for how this impacted them, they will know you were doing what you could at the time, and I think you will find their understanding and forgiveness (at least when they are mature enough to comprehend the bigger picture and not just their own experience). Stay strong and try not to become provoked. Lean into your logical thinking and do not allow your ET to carry you away.
I agree with K, your daughter needs to know what is involved in a decision and the potential ramifications, and she needs your trust that she will follow them. I say this not because she has earned your trust, but because if she knows you do not give her that benefit of the doubt, if she thinks you think she will fail, she will perform to that expectation. She needs to have the freedom to fail and an inspiration to succeed. We all learn from failure and if we are not allowed to fail, or worse, if someone rushes in and says I told you so and takes the actions instead, this prevents the person from finding their own way and building their own confidence. I know you love and care for her well being deeply, but let her come to you. If she say’s everything went to hell, then ask *her* to tell you how she is planning to fix it. Don’t set yourself up at the “fix all” person. Help her succeed on her own. As for you, take good care of you, Lorelei. You have not had a lot of experience in doing so, nor good examples of good self (emotional) care given your experience, but I very much hope you make this a priority. You will be in my thoughts so let me know how this works out. Wishing you the best with this and all else.
Thanks FYC, I understand the general consensus from family and friends is to operate in such a manner as you have described. Unfortunately, she has some cognitive limitations and I am guilt ridden that she felt she had no choice but to leave the nest early. With that said, I can’t just “fix it” all for her. We can’t even sell the property she is in based on the inevitable market crash to the real estate. Not much to do. Clearly the boyfriend is a red flag but lets be entirely honest.. He may a narc or not, but since 9th grade he has been of more support than not as I was incapable. I was utterly flat on my ass. He is also a kid, narc or not his intentions on managing this property and her following behind is what it is. Many narcs use benign manipulations to control their partners–in this case if he could fix it up he chose not to as was not needed to control her. Nothing I can do about it. I am not going to financially cushion this for her beyond essentials because my own assets are taking a hit from this COVID mess. She can always come home but without the animals. That is the only offer I can extend beyond guidance. My guilt though, coupled with the cognitive element complicates the matter terribly. Her IQ is above normal but there are executive function issues that she won’t allow me to help with. And how can I blame her? I am indeed under a lot of stress and am not really sure where to apply the energy. I have a ton of responsibility that exceeds many that I know. I have limited family, am often fairly reserved with friends, refuse to see a therapist as we know they are essentially useless.. I have relied on some friends and relatives re, this matter. My decreased ex’s sister has been quite helpful. Thanks for the feedback for sure!
Lorelei, There may be fallout in real estate (I would think so), but a friend of mine in real estate says things are still strong for the moment. I wish I had more useful advice and I am so sorry you have had to carry so much weight all alone. Please know you can always share here. We may not be able to solve anything, but we care, and knowing you’re not alone and others care is a comfort. Please try not to foster your guilt. Guilt is only useful in redirecting any actions that are not in keeping with your values. At the time, you did the best you could and you survived and now you are making strides everyday in a positive direction. No one could ask more of you. You love your children and you want the best for them. They will come around in time. Take care of yourself and try to forgive any mistakes. We all make them. It’s what we learn and what we do with them that makes all the difference.
FYC—that was a helpful explanation of the utility associated with why guilt can be helpful. I’ve always been curious as it is often perceived a faulty emotion. Narcissists would demonstrate it as a part of their facade, as they would not have it to begin with. HG has said he never regrets anything, but this still eludes me. Don’t we all shake our heads at some ridiculous antic? Even if it was too many drinks? I’ve heard narcissists recount stories of silliness for instance with an often fond recollection. But I suppose that is really gaining fuel from fitting into such a discussion, maybe the difference is that they would be mirroring those genuinely feeling regretful over things and playing along for fuel because they know what qualifies as pertinent. Does that make sense, or am I just rambling about how we do guilt and regret differently?
You are correct. The recollection of supposed stupidity is not a genuine admission but a form of manipulation to assert control and gain fuel. The reason being, it comes from a narcissist. Remember, we operate in very similar ways to you (we have to fit in and get what we need) but the reason WHY we do these things is completely different. You must look through the prism of what the person is, narcissist or non-narcissist so then understand what is driving the behaviour. The very clear information contained in “Is it a Manipulation” and “Is It Planning” will help considerably for those who wish to understand further.
HG—I should listen again and see if the information “molds” differently. But yes, that is often confusing—of course you could recognize behavior as silly. But it’s used to fit in—not be attributed to remorse. My friend tells a funny story of being drunk, taking a mattress outside, breaking the door.. It was a ridiculous drunken scenario but he gains fuel telling such a grand tell. He doesn’t care that his mom or dad paid tons of money to the other parents. He’s actually a blast but I know I know I know..
Correct.
And my friend met a guy described as “the save the day type” which would be so appealing when all he is truly demonstrating is a lack of boundaries and triangulation with her soon to be former partner.. But to her he’s a potential hero. The pictures of his muscles are so gross I was suspicious enough from the selfies..
Lorelei, I read that about guilt years ago after a long conversation I had with a couple on a train. Both were psychologists and we had a friendly debate about shame and guilt. They thought both were positive, I disagreed. I find empaths too readily take on the mantle of guilt and N’s not at all. Never in fact. Ns literally never feel guilt or remorse because they are never wrong (from their defended perspective) and are entitled to behave as they do, so there would be no cause for guilt.
My view is that guilt is a naturally occurring feeling that springs from something we say or do that is not in accordance with our values or true feelings. It is a useful and helpful reminder to change course and to address our and other’s feelings as well. Guilt beyond being instructive often turns to toxic or core shame and that shame is dangerous. Core shame is present for Ns and CoDs and is absolutely toxic to their self perception and true, healthy self esteem. Shame is what a person feels about themselves, versus about something they have done. It is counter productive and does not help anyone, least of all the person harboring shame. Better to use guilt as a rudder to keep on course with your life and values and to forgive yourself and not let guilt linger to become deeper self-recrimination and shame. I would never want anyone to feel shame–not good comes of it.
Shame is indeed wrapped up in the creature HG writes about I believe. I appreciate this post.
Thank you, Lorelei, and you are welcome, and I agree. Sadly it is the legacy of Matrinarc and the legacy of her parents, etc. HG is awesome and not deserving of shame.
Cats are natural Eastern Mystics. When I was visiting the program and staying with a grad student prior to accepting the fellowship, her cat was walking up and down my side. I had lain down for a nap before a dinner at She-Who-Must’s house, wondering if this was an insane decision, knowing I wouldn’t be able to sleep anyhow. The cat decided this was an excellent time for Feline Shiatsu, and just kept going back and forth until I unkinked.
They can be very wise.
That was a sweet story V. Thank you for sharing.
Fyc:
“Yours is not the content that HG loathes reading I am sure.”
Speaking of which, where’s Nerdcissus? I could use some proofreading practice.
V, Haha, if you have a proof reading itch, you must like my comments too. I always find errors in my comments that somehow I did not see before I hit “post comment.” It is frustrating!
FYC, Haha I keep telling V if she wants to proofread all she has to do is read my comments.
FYC: I can follow what you are saying. What happens with folks like Nerdcissus isn’t a few typos; they start a sentence, then it changes gear in the middle and turns into another sentence. It’s impossible to tell which subject noun is verbing which object noun. You’ll notice that with Nerdcissus’ attempts to be pornographic, the reader couldn’t even be sure what was Tab A or Slot B, and whether they ever got anywhere near each other.
Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language” explores the vicious cycle of bad writing: unclear thoughts become unclear words, but unclear words produce unclear thoughts–sometimes deliberately, as politicians will hide ugly truths under vague words.
Online here:
https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/
V, you are funny and I knew what you meant. IRL, I am a natural and experienced communicator, but here, I make many typo/autocorrect errors. This annoys me and I extend my apologies to those who may also be reasonably annoyed.
Violetta,
“You’ll notice that with Nerdcissus’ attempts to be pornographic, the reader couldn’t even be sure what was Tab A or Slot B, and whether they ever got anywhere near each other.”
Good thing Narcissus likely doesn’t design Hotwheels sets…or Ikea furniture.
WhoCares:
Or Legos.
He belonged, not “he was belonged”
“One of the Devil’s lieutenants”: the narcissist I got entangled with said he was belonged to the ‘Devil’s Chosen Few’. First he said that was what he USED to say, and he seemed to find it silly with hindsight. But then, on a memorably crazy argument not long before I escaped, he said it again. And I could believe him, I did think I was going to lose my sanity, that day.
I wonder if that was ‘foreshadowing’ the first time round, if he knew what he was, or whether it was just a pose. He was such a drama queen.