Point Askew



In a discussion with Dr E we were engaged in one of the sessions where he invites me to consider the situation from the point of view of those that I interact with. On this particular occasion we were discussing situations where a victim wishes to cease interacting with me and he wanted to know if I could understand why they might form that view. Since I am a clever chap I am able to work out how people might feel about being on the receiving end of my behaviour. I understand that anxiety and hyper vigilance, misery and upset follow the way I treat people. As you know though I do not care. People make the mistake that I am dismissive of the way people feel. It is not that. I can see that they are upset. I can see that they are angry. I know all of that. What people often fail to realise is that my needs have to come first. I need my fuel. If that means you standing there sobbing at me then that has to happen so I get my fuel. If there was a different way of getting that fuel then I would use that method. If that alternative method did not leave you upset then I would take it, but there is no other way, not when I grow tired of you. I need the fuel and that means you have to suffer as you supply that to me.

I do understand how you feel because I have seen the reactions over and over again. I know what anger looks like, I know what misery is and I have seen despair so often. I can understand your point of view when you stand arguing with me, but I will not concede to it. I want you to keep arguing as that gives me fuel. I will deploy a circular argument to keep the drama going. I want you to explode through frustration and shower me with your attention as you do so. I hear everything you say to me (although I will wind you up by saying I cannot hear you, so you speak louder and become exasperated). People suspect that I cannot appreciate what your view is. I do but it must always be subservient to my desire for fuel. Of course, by telling you this I can extract even more fuel from you because now you know that I understand your views but I wont pay any heed to them and that will infuriate you all the more.

6 thoughts on “Point Askew

  1. Asp Emp says:

    Did the container with talc powder explode?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Asp Emp says:

        I wasn’t counting 😉

  2. Fieke says:

    Dear HG, thank you so much for the educational work. It is very very valuable.

    Narcissism is really is a disorder that I start to believe is very easy to manifest in our modern times, because we as people live so disconnected from each other, and very isolated/individual instead of as a group and community (and people are wired to live in tribes so we live very estranged from our needs to evolve healthy).

    The risk of abuse are so high, not having other adults supervise each other, aunts, uncles, sisters cousins and not sharing in raising children. Having fulltime working parents, preventing healthy child development with primary caretakers due to profesionalization, which excludes the important symbioses a natural parent should have with her child, but needs to grow in the first year, and is conditional for attending to subtle needs of children even with normal people. With natural parents who focus on achievements lacking time to attend more subtle emotional needs. It seems to me it is more easy these times for both the triggers ( genetics in combination with neglect or and abuse) to manifest.

    Does the genetic predisposition also see on narcissism or just psychopathy/sociopathy? I am not sure.

    Narcissism seems to thrive.. it always did in families of kings and queens, where the babies were given to a wet nurse and than a nanny. But now it is more common it seems.

    Accepting that abusing children is very abnormal (and not a natural variety to bringing up a baby mammal) the disorder also is not a natural variety like having ADHD , dyslexia or being homosexual etcetera.
    It really belongs to the roam personality disorders

    To understand this, what you wrote here:
    “I want you to explode through frustration and shower me with your attention as you do so” with the comment “that you would choose a less hurtful way if there was, but there isn’t any, and your need for fuel, that releases from emotional abuse is so important that it is more important than the need for someone else to not be abused”

    And I have to say this is so very powerful. And reading this so educational, and also it is very very very useful to manage my own emotions in dealing with a narcissist. If I know in time he or she is one. I am getting better in detecting them. Because knowing a narcissist does not care and even want me to be see upset makes me absolutely lose interest in reacting to him, in respecting him, in liking him and loving him and makes me detach from him. I understand this as you speak about ‘I’ in a collective way.

    But reading this as a personal point of view of you makes me struggle.

    So accepting narcissism as a disorder and you being so aware that you have this disorder, and also being so well educated about the disorder and as a third most important fact; also being so good in logical thinking. This makes me struggle to understand that this is your point of view.

    You know that the justification of this point of view comes from ideas( like that you are better than someone, that your needs are more important than someone else’s, that your idea of being the greatest, are entitled to fuel etc) that directly stem from the disorder. And that the disorder is real and not just a label to a natural variation of humanity. So that the justification in itself is disordered. So there is no justification. So logic thinking should be able to counter this narcissistic thinking as well as logic thinking should en could counter emotional thinking. ( addiction to crumbs and the cycle of abuse/tenderness)

    I struggle with you keep saying that your needs come first, that you are entitled to fuel and that the suffering of others is simply what is necessary.

    Because Knowing it stems from narcissistic thinking, knowing it is not logic, because you know you are in fact ( although very appreciated and valuable) NOT more important than someone else, and you would not want to suffer yourself like this.. and you have no entitlement so you have no other justification to make someone else suffer like this, than the disorder itself. Is it really like a dog that never learned to be with children, humans in the first weeks ( socialisation) and now can never ever learn again, or a vicious dog who was abused, who can never learn to feel safe around humans? That I would understand.

    And I say this of course with upmost respect? Your work is undeniable amazing. with lots of thanks and appreciation,

    Best Regards,


    1. Fieke says:

      ..Sorry for the spelling errors, I should have let this one soak with me for a while. And I should have rewritten it leaving out excess and summarise more. I am not very eloquent here ;)..
      English is my second language as I am from Europe mainland. But that’s not an excuse.
      Just wondering if these three skills ( knowing what you are, understanding the disorder in detail, and being able to use logic thinking so superb) ever be enough to cross swords with narcissistic thinking. And start to care about suffering of others. Even if it is only cognitively.
      Thank you again so much!!

  3. December Infinity says:

    This makes sense as to the constant need and quest for fuel. The needs of the narcissist are paramount so the victim will be treated in whatever way the narcissist sees fit to illicit the required attention and emotional responses. The treatment of the victim will depend on where they stand in the ‘relationship dynamic’ with the narcissist and the role that they play. What really stands out in the article, is once the narcissist grows tired of the victim (and bored!), the treatment will definitely not be pleasant. While it might be easier to stop interacting with the victim, the narcissist will definitely not do this as it is preferred to keep the interaction with said victim primarily for control and emotional output.

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