Sitting Target
Why did the narcissist choose you?
How did he or she go about deciding that you were the ideal target for him to launch his campaign of seduction upon?
Did you do something to attract the attentions of this dangerous foe?
This direct and comprehensive book will enable you to understand what it is that the varying types of narcissist look for when they are searching for victims. Whether you wish to prevent it happening again or you need to understand why you were chosen, this book will deliver the answers in an uncompromising and straight forward manner.
What are the things that various types of narcissist look for?
How do they go about establishing their targets satisfy those traits?
What are the Special Traits which attract all narcissists?
Where are their hunting grounds and which is the most dangerous?
Who does the narcissist go after and why are certain people left alone?
What does the narcissist mean when he or she is looking for green lights?
These questions and more are answered in this hard-hitting and unsettling look into why the narcissist chooses you.
40 thoughts on “Sitting Target”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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The narc is basically a reptile in human form hunting prey.
This book is excellent and I highly recommend it to everyone. I found it very helpful to learn about the different hunting grounds and how narcissists operate within them. My mind was blown when one of the illustrations listed in the book actually transpired in real life before my eyes at one of the hunting grounds. This is definitely a must have for every victim.
Thank you Alex.
Alex, Duchessbea
This might make you chuckle. Talking about hunting grounds. I suspect the supermarket isn’t considered a hunting ground. Fortunately for me.
Today I went to the supermarket /grocery store. Nothing too interesting about that until I consider what I did.
I grabbed my groceries and waited at the checkout. There was a lady with a young child ahead of me. The little girl was whining and demanding attention from her mother who was packing the groceries. On and on she whined, I could see the mother getting stressed so I knelt down and handed the little girl one of my bags so that she could “help mummy.” The mother began sliding things like crisps and paper towels over to the little girl and, gainfully employed, the whining stopped and soon they were all done and on their way.
I had a nice chat to the cashier as she was checking my groceries through and, because I had brought my own grocery bags I was given two plastic tokens to put in the charity box of my choice. I wandered towards the clear Perspex charity boxes. Each box had a brief description of the charity above it. If one box had had fewer tokens I would have put my tokens in that one but all three boxes had the similar number, so I stopped, read about each charity and chose two, placing one counter in each box, feeling mildly guilty that I had left one charity without a counter.
I walked out towards my car. The trolley bay a couple of spaces down from my car was overflowing. People had just rammed their trolleys in there so they spilled out into the car park. I hate that. It’s lazy and inconsiderate. I loaded my car then walked to the end of the row and left my trolley in a bay that had spaces. As I walked back to my car I saw a youngish guy headed to the overflowing trolley bay, about to dump his trolley there. I smiled, and gestured towards the bay further away saying there were spaces there. I stopped and watched him, holding my position whilst smiling helpfully. (haha) As expected, he changed direction and went to the bay I had indicated.
I got into my car chunnering to myself about the lazy arseholes that just dumped trolleys in car parks and decided the perpetrators were all probably narcs. The young guy was probably a narc as well and this set me off thinking about how many narcs were likely to have been in the supermarket etc etc.
I have wondered how HG really spots empaths. He mentions that it’s in the way we move, things we do and say. He says we can’t help but show our empathic credentials. I’ve been a bit cynical about that but if I really think about it, in one simple trip to the store, had HG been watching, I demonstrated empathic status, hinted at cadre and even gave a nod to my school. He could have had all of that information without having said a word to me.
It’s true. Our empathy is evident to those who are looking for it. We had better become skilled at spotting narcissists in a similar way.
Hey TS! Thanks for sharing that story. You are an awesome empath! Glad you were able to make that guy go to the appropriate bay. Since narcissists make up 1 in 6 of population per HG, I’m sure there were narcissists at the market. Definitely agree that empaths need to improve at spotting narcissists.
Hey Alex,
Thank you for your kind comment. Of late, since COVID restrictions have been lifted and people are interacting more again, I’ve been noticing my own giveaways. When I first arrived on Narcsite we were just going in to lockdown. People weren’t mixing so it wasn’t in my mind. I think empaths do all sorts of things that give us away. We’re the ones who hold the doors, pet the scruffy dog, chat to strangers, coo or pull faces at the baby, pick something up that someone drops and hand it back to them and so on. We do all sorts instinctively and all of these things signal ‘empath’, not school or cadre necessarily but they are enough to cause interest and the first interaction.
We can’t hide who we are. I wouldn’t change my behaviour even if I could. No way. I am starting to realise though that for the unaware of our kind, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for the narcissist.
We need to tool up and get our game on!
Xx
TS, the best game for a narcissist is to be calm and to treat him as normal as any human being. Don’t be afraid. The truth hurts the most.
Even under extreme conditions, try to maintain this normal posture.
PS While shopping in a supermarket yesterday, I was smiling at my thoughts about your post. A great place to observe 😊
TS,
Great story. Very much agree that Empaths need to improve aswell.
Best,
DB
Dearest Truth,
If I were a narc, I would definitely be attracted to your writing
Truth, yours was such a beautiful read and I really enjoyed your story
The supermarkets and car parks are fascinating places to study people (airports are also fabulous)
Now there’s the Covid fallout to observe, that’s fun haha
My radar tunes in to everyone’s narc traits first …… prove you’re not one 😂
Thank you Truth, it was a sheer delight and yes, I always put my trolley back in its right bay 😉
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
Thank you so much for saying that, such a very kind thing to say and I’m really flattered! 😘
Yes, I think that mindset is a sensible one. Eyes open, radar up, prove to me you aren’t a narcissist. We empaths do have natural talents for reading people, we just have to stick to our guns with what we first pick up on. That’s where we tend to fall down.
Smiling now, you made my day.
Hugs, xx
Dearest Truth,
My absolute pleasure lovely. I always love reading your comments, you’re so descriptive and eloquent. Have you by any chance done recreational writing apart from work?
The danger for us is, if we don’t listen to our instincts we pay the ultimate price later. I prefer to be safe than sorry now.
Smiles and hugs right back atcha precious 😊🤗
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
Nooooo haha, no recreational writing. Honestly, I think I just enjoy the blog and the people here so much, the environment makes me feel comfortable expressing myself.
Totally, we likely developed those instincts for a very valid reason. Self protection. I’m all for making the most of what we have been given! It’s only fair, I was towards the back of the queue when God was handing out boobs!
Xx 😘
Hey Fiddleress! (I messaged you on DC.) Xx
Dearest Truth,
Haha …I was in the other queue when they were handing out height, God patted me on the head once too often when he said ‘ok, run along child’ , stunted my growth 😂
Your statement “I’m all for making the most of what we’ve been given” is so important and I couldn’t agree more Truth. We’ve just watched Mirror Mirror, a 2 pt documentary with Todd Sampson on body image, cosmetic surgery, profits and social media. 😱
AN ABSOLUTE MUST SEE !
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
Sorry it took me a little while to respond, I didn’t get the notification for your last message. I hate not replying.
Your comment about height made me chuckle. We were probably too busy gasbagging and forgot to line up!
I’m going to take a little look at the plastic surgery programme you suggested. I’m currently fascinated by Nicole Kidman’s mouth! I think she might be going a little too far with the old nip and tuck!
Xx
Hello Bubbles,
I agree with you that TS’s story made for a great read (Hi TS!).
I like what you wrote about tuning in to narc traits first. I think I did it today though it was not a conscious decision, on my day back to work after my holiday: there were two new colleagues in my department alone, and during our department meeting, I studied them and I my gut feeling was that one of them could be a narc, whereas the other definitely was not – and this was before they had uttered a single word. And guess what? After hearing them speak and especially with the way they interacted with us all, the one that made me feel she could be a narc will indeed have to prove me that she’s not (she could just be an unpleasant person – but she behaved in an entitled manner and her demeanour was subtly haughty). Whereas I’ll be very surprised if the other new colleague turns out to be one.
Dearest Fiddleress,
That’s so awesome lovely. It works for me seeing as I’m such a trusting and giving person. I am also aware of not confusing narcissistic traits with personality disorder which is easy enough to do. Show me the empathy 😂
It’s fantastic it was instinctual for you, that’s a really good place to be. Time will tell with your prediction (I’m guessing you’ve nailed her, entitled, haughty, say no more) ) but great to hear that you are on your guard. Work places are a mine field. Just watch your back with Miss Soon To Be Bitch From Hell 😂
Doesn’t it just get up your left nostril when new people start when your on holidays ? 👃……..sooooo frustrating and annoying haha
Be great to hear an update ☺️
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dear Bubbles
I will keep you posted on these two individuals!
“Soon To Be Bitch From Hell”, haha, this gave me a chuckle. We already have one narcissist in our department (*very* reminiscent of Harry’s wife, except she’s not married to a prince, but she has all the other attributes) out of ten of us – so I guess with the two new ones, if one is a narc we’ll be in the average figures: 2 out of 12!
Dearest Fiddleress,
Be interesting and looking forward to any updates …… I’m sure she won’t let you down haha
Great way to test your intincts
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I can sense people 95% well and quickly. A moment of observation. Moment of talking or listening. I am rarely wrong, although there are times when I have to undo that first assessment.
I leave 5% for “mine” type narcissists. Large camouflage. Although sometimes I wonder if I have not recognized him for sure …
Going my own ways, I often ended up getting where I shouldn’t. Especially as a teenager during the rebellion, which was HUGE for me (the strong, double pressure of my mother and stepfather to submit and maintain the façade of our educated, respected family).
Thousands of stories. But here’s one. At the age of 17, my friends and I walked around bunkers on the outskirts of the city. We met another group. The fun was great. Alcohol. Suddenly I realized that my friends had evaporated and I was left alone with 6 boys aged 16-19 at night, a few meters underground. The atmosphere slowly but perceptibly thickened. I knew it was too late to say “Goodnight guys” and leave. Escaping would start a chase. In a second, I intuitively drew a plan. I kept a fun, friendly tone and estimated the leader. I just turned to him and ignored the others. In minutes, I put all my effort into seducing him enough to make him feel like having me all for himself. Everything on “invisible” levels. Managed to. Staring at me, aroused by the scent of prey, he led me out of there. I was safe. Once we got to town, I was able to relax, flirt and say goodbye to the promise to see you later.
We met a few more times after that. Very high sexual pull.
I did not know then, now I know 100% that it was a narcissist. Yes, there was even a hoovering. Pulling on my sister and mom as lieutenants. Then slander.
After about 8 years, I sat in a parked car waiting for my sister. Rain. Foggy windows. I was watching a group of men carrying some pieces of furniture for a tenement house across the street. I saw him. I couldn’t take my eyes off. I almost ate that steamy, wet glass. A pinch in the stomach and a pull. Huge attraction. He didn’t see me, I didn’t want to. I had already had a long relationship with the “first” narcissist.
It’s funny. When I quickly analyze various life situations, even now at work – I feel safest under the wings of narcissists.
Joa,
You are clearly exceptionally intuitive. You read the situation accurately as far as your predicament was concerned. You are also a survivor able to think on her feet. Both strengths I think have served you well. I’m very glad you got your way out of that situation. Smart thinking, head for the single strongest in the group and therefore fall under his protection.
I wonder if the relief you felt at this individual behaving as you needed him to had any bearing on your attraction to him later. By default he took on the role of ‘rescuer’ in an extremely high risk situation. That was not his design, it was yours. Had you not acted as you did, the outcome for you and his role in it might have been a very different one.
I too have flown under the wing of sponsors in a work environment but only in a work environment. It’s a similar concept. The narc serves his own purposes, if you fall within those purposes then you are kept safe, you aren’t a threat to control. Fall outside of them and they could turn on you in a heartbeat. It’s a dangerous game to play knowingly. There is no true loyalty and no real trust as you could expect from an empath or normal. I think in this sense our position is always precarious. Exciting, but precarious.
I understand the highs and your melancholic side that drives that comfort you sometimes feel within the lows. My concern for you is more that whilst your intuition does protect you and mentally you are strong, at some point you will take on real damage. There is simply no way to beat or to exist with someone who is without empathy, not long term. The stakes will always be raised to a point where it becomes just too painful. It’s like driving head on at full speed towards a psychopath opponent. You can’t win that game. At some point, even late in the game, you have to turn away.
Xx
TS,
thank you for asking if I was relieved, it was liberating for me. It allowed me to clarify what I have known for a long time, but now I have grouped it even better.
Yes, for a brief moment I felt relieved. When I isolated this boy from the others, I flanked him and managed to establish “that special thread”. However, I didn’t see him as a lifeguard. The real feeling was triumph. The feeling of control and power that I had taken control of such a difficult situation. And here we come to the heart of the matter – fear, danger, trigger my inner narcissist. In combination with seduction and the erotic zone, it is even stronger.
I had sex with this very experience erotic boyfriend. One time and I ran away. It was my first man (of my own free will). And it was very perverse sex, especially for the first time. This perversion was not generated by him, but by me.
Once upon a time, HG posted an erotic article here in which he was in control and his partner waited for his move. I thought, goddamn it, it’s me. I wasn’t thinking about the woman, but about HG. I wrote this before, sex in my edition looks like a “fight”. It’s a battlefield. Being with “my” narcissist, I often had a problem with combing my hair (it almost got dreadlocks from wallowing 😊), not to mention demolishing the furniture. But that’s not even the point. I also like calm, ordinary sex. However … even being seemingly submissive, almost still, silent, I have to somehow maintain control, proper hip flexion, muscle work – control speed and depth. I have to give and receive, set the pace and set the ending. And I almost always do it.
“My” narcissist quickly realized this. He knew that if he wanted to seduce me 100% he had to master this wildness, he had to temporarily (or seemingly) relinquish his control. Only when I feel dominant, when the other person is at my mercy and disfavor, when there is no way to move… and most importantly, only when he becomes that little boy can I really get closer. And then, I don’t hurt him. I give all my calmed love. Because “my” narcissist understood it, applied it and used it wisely, I fell in love with him without memory. And I can’t forget this shy boy (maybe he was just a projection, though I don’t think so, later I was always punished).
Sometimes I hear someone say what they are doing to liven up the atmosphere in the bedroom. At one point, “50 Shades of Gray” was in fashion. I watched, read and thought that I had more sophisticated erotic visions at the age of 6. Especially one vision of connecting a man and a woman was very persistent when I was a child and accompanied me for dozens of evenings, but in reality it is impossible, maybe only for acrobats 😊 Anyway, it does not evoke such emotions in me anymore.
That’s why, when my baby was born, I realized that it would be impossible to put it all together. And although I am transitioning smoothly between madonna/whore. Naturally. No problem for me (except that people see it in my eyes which are radiant, so I modestly cover it with eyelashes – after “my” narcissist shows up, my child commented: “Mom, you have strange eyesight, I’m afraid”). The problem was “my” narcissist, who couldn’t leave a whore in the bedroom and have a madonna in his life.
That’s why (+ a few other reasons), I quit men and have been alone for 14 years. My preferences are obvious. I also know what events in my life result from – which changes nothing at all. I aim only at narcissists, because they are able to understand me and meet my expectations (not only in this aspect), satisfy the hunger of my inner narcissist. Of course, while satisfying your hunger, feeding mine is just a side effect.
“Normal” and empaths do not attract me. And most importantly, I do not want to hurt them, too little immunity, they would go crazy.
Casual sex – out. Not for me. I tried once. Physiological activity. Does not need.
Unfortunately, in an intimate relationship, I show the greatest narcissism. I know the side effects of a relationship with me are inevitable. Narcissus will survive it and I won’t feel guilty as much 😊
I also have a problem with proximity. On my own initiative, I can hug even a stranger (for a while). But when a woman approached me last week who grasped my hand out of gratitude for something I had done, even knowing what was driving it and how sincere it was, I immediately stiffened.
The hardest thing to control is your own narcissism. And it’s not just about sex. If, instead of focusing on other narcissists, each of us would work on the narcissist within us, the world would be more beautiful.
I had to kill my inner narcissist for a while. When my daughter stands on her own legs and doesn’t need me anymore, maybe I will decide to let this madman go again for a while.
Amazing that eager to see him again, they are already waiting in line, ha ha ha 😊
Oh, not nice, this fool spoke through me again 😊
And with all this, it’s amazing that I have an aversion to pornography. I’ve only seen twice and I don’t want more. The degree of objectification of a woman is enormous. Instead of excitement, I feel regret, sadness, I think what life situations must have induced this woman, who was once a little girl, someone’s child, to be so humiliated for money.
Coercion and abuse, especially the most atavistic, physical, is something I hate.
Despite my generally good heart, I would have no mercy for such primitive bastards. Elimination. Exclusion. The aggression inside me increases when I think about all the suppressed, wronged women, children, animals.
Thank you TS, last week I had a long night thinking about it and putting it all back together. Every time, if I arrange, I blast sealed in the capsule along with the bits of bad memories – it does not disappear, but circulates like a satellite until I have to reach for it again to clean up even better and launch into space again. It has not been cleaned there for a long time. It was useful, although it is not pleasant.
I am closing the topic that I have clarified thanks to you. Now it’s time to send this capsule into space. Let him come back only in a few years. I have other tasks now 😊
——————————-
One more thing – when it comes to the sense of security under the wings of narcissists. It’s best to be close, but not too close. Up there, on the most delicate skin, in the soft down under the leader’s wing. Even if he does want to swing a claw or prick his beak, there is a risk of hurting himself too, so he rarely tries or does it lightly.
Close, but not too close, as long as you keep this balance, is ok. Understanding your role is also very important. Later, you can gently navigate. Keeping the boundaries, especially for me there are two. They used to be forced more often, now rarely. Narcissists can give, especially what they don’t care about or have an excess of. It just so happens that for me these are important things.
However, I don’t think TS, you’re free from these wings. If that’s the case, what are you doing here? It’s familiar and seemingly safe, isn’t it? I leave it for reflection 😊
—————————-
Do not worry about me. I always get up. When it comes to work, there isn’t even a need for that. There is only fatigue sometimes, then I turn off (my switch is perfect after so many years).
The truth can be the most surprising. Two days ago my boss talked to me. Gentle play – he served a mixture of praise, ambition tickling, shock and criticism others. My answer to his question was so short and sincere, that he ended the game immediately. When spoken with a smile and a spark in eyes, she caused amusement his – although he might as well have kicked me out of the office if he thought this answer was too familiar and insolent. I don’t know if anyone here dares to speak as honestly as I do.
“My” narcissist, when he finally started paying for his child (he did not give anything for 13 years), after more than six months of negotiations and battles between us, said: “You won something, just because you don’t play”. The best response to the machinations of narcissists is no game. Sometimes, though, you can make a surprise. Better dynamics 😊
Perhaps I am wrong, but it works for me.
This is my last long, exhibitionist post. I’ll try not to torment any more. I have almost “arranged” myself. Soon, I won’t need any writing. Not that much.
Joa,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I read your comment yesterday and I’m still thinking about it. You explain your thinking very well. I would like to add to this response over the coming days as I turn your thoughts over in my mind. X
“Fear and danger trigger my inner narcissist.” I know what you mean here and I look at this in a similar way. I don’t feel that I have an inner narcissist as such. I am very aware of my narcissistic traits though and I know when they light up. Many empaths are wary of their narcissistic traits at first. They see them as a negative aspect of their personality. Not me. I’m proud of mine. First and foremost, I see these traits as being there for my own protection. They light up most in times of stress because that is exactly when I need them to light up. I do bite back occasionally too haha! That’s less to do with protection and probably more to do with a feeling of being disrespected or taken advantage of. Pride and vanity are my strongest narcissistic traits but I carry all ten and to a reasonably high level.
You were in serious danger in the tunnel. Your narcissistic traits did exactly what they were supposed to do. Defiance lit up forcing you to act. You manipulated the situation to protect yourself. Fuelled by adrenaline no doubt as fight or flight kicked in simultaneously. Flight was not an option. Fight (through manipulation and control) was selected instead. Once you were out of the situation, some relief but also still filled with adrenaline your narcissistic traits of vanity and pride kicked in. Again to protect from the shock of the situation you had found yourself in. I agree with the pride here. You should be proud of how you handled the situation. Better to feel powerful than be shaking and terrified with shock.
I think we should be proud of our narcissistic traits. They don’t make us narcissists. There are no half narcissists and there is no part time narcissism. In this sense there is no inner narcissist in you Joa, but I understand your description and what you mean to convey by it. Narcissistic traits protect and drive us forward when we need them to force us to take action. Even when we GOSO, what are we doing? We are putting ourselves first. Protection. Self preservation is needed. Which trait answers? The narcissistic trait of selfishness.
I love the honesty and the way you are open about your ‘inner narcissist’ or narcissistic traits. For me, reading your thoughts about intimacy and your preferences there relate to several different aspects. Some cultural, some environmental, some simply sexual exploration and preference, some a result of your past and perhaps even your upbringing. I need to organise my thoughts further on this and will share them with you in a separate comment.
I wanted first to refer back to HG’s book ‘Sex And The Narcissist’. I’m half way through my re read. I think this is relevant and want to finish reading before further exploring the intimacy side with you.
You asked me why I am still here. You are correct in your thinking. I am over my narcissist, so the reason for my first coming to the blog is largely concluded. I stay now for various reasons. I will always be grateful to HG for the knowledge he provides and for taking the time to answer my questions when I really needed my questions answering. I was supported hugely by the empaths here. They listened to my thoughts and hauled me through my sadness. I was sad and for a long time. So really I hope to do the same for other readers. I’m here to support and help where I can.
I also have an addiction. This place does offer a familiarity to me in that sense. I do enjoy reading HG’s comments and there is an element of me indulging my addiction, just in a non damaging way. I allow myself a little fun here and there, but at a safe distance. I am fascinated by narcissism and I’m not done learning yet. Here is the best place for me to do that. Also, I love the empaths here and gain strength from being around them. I would really miss the people here if I simply upped and left. So, many reasons but including the one you suggested. 🙂
Joa, it’s a pleasure to listen to your thoughts, I’m very glad that our conversation is offering clarification of your own feelings. We have two very different backgrounds, so expect a little naivety on my part! Overall though, I can really feel your thoughts through your writing and am always happy to offer ideas for you to consider.
I’ll add to this comment in a day or so. I have questions for you!
Xx
Joa,
Part two. I finished re reading Sex And The Narcissist.
From what you write, I think you view yourself as ‘unusual’ when it comes to what you desire or need from a sexual partner. The article that you referred to is ‘Hush’. It’s an article that often generates comments and discussion on the blog. The article is continued in one of the Dark Cupid episodes. Discussion around it varies from some people being turned on by it and others being very much turned off. It depends on the individual. Different people desire different things, whether that be in life or in a sexual context. The point is though that some find that scenario a turn on. (I’m in that group). If I look at that further, I could say that it’s acceptable then for the man to play the dominant role. Play is possibly the wrong word, it’s acceptable for the male to ‘be’ dominant. It doesn’t strike me as odd. So it has to be acceptable for the female to be dominant also.
It depends on the environment you grow up in as to how acceptable a dominant woman is viewed. In some cultures it would be highly unusual, in others not so much.
I think you describe your sexual preference essentially as a need for control. It isn’t a need to cause pain, or degradation. It’s a need to dominate and be in total control of the sexual encounter. To strip away the masculinity in a way, so that you are then able to give love. I see the need less as a need for dominance simply for dominance sake, more as a need to feel safe enough to give love. This isn’t narcissistic in any way shape or form. The narcissistic version of the similar sexual scenario goes as follows.
“ The sadistic element of our kind will push their victim further and further in order to draw fuel, their mental and physical discomfort being of no concern and indeed an imperative in order for the sadistic narcissist to gain fuel from sexual humiliation, degradation and perversion.”
This isn’t your motivation. I see your motivation as almost the inverse of that. A desire to connect through a stripping away of masculine behaviours that separate.
Sexual preference is bound up within our personalities. Our personalities are bound up with our past life experiences. I don’t think there is a distinct separation between the two. If you have suffered an upbringing by a parental narcissist, I can see why a need for control might come to the fore. I can see also how this need to feel in control would translate in a sexual context. I don’t see it as strange or unusual.
Sex is a barometer of a relationship but it’s also a context where different aspects of our personality can be explored. Like you, I need to feel safe in order to do that. Sex is also a form of communication. When words fail, sex sometimes re connects us. I think connection is a lot of what you are searching for.
I think that whilst a genuine need for dominance is less common with women in a sexual context ( I’m talking about a real need not a role playing aspect) that doesn’t make it strange or narcissistic. I think it’s a case of needing to find the right relationship. One where you feel safe to share yourself, your experiences, your past and your genuinely felt needs. If a narcissist has fulfilled these needs in a sexual way for you previously, I can understand that the assumption might be that a narcissist is the only one who can fulfil you going forward. The narcissist doesn’t fulfil any need though Joa. At best he pretends to. He fakes it. The award for faking in the bedroom goes to them every single time. No contest. HG says it himself.
“ I see it (sex) purely as an opportunity to give you what you want so you want me.”
This is what your narcissist did. Then later, the punishment you speak of.
“I see it (sex) as a device by which I can push or pull you, manipulate and control you in order to make you give me more fuel.”
No connection. No nothing. Just fuel.
Yes your need for dominance is less common, but the motivation behind it isn’t narcissistic in my view. It could have arisen due to any combination of life experiences or environmental factors and it’s part of who you are, just as my needs and preferences are part of me. There we are similar. Once thing is now absolutely certain in my mind. Whatever my needs might be, they will never be met by a narcissist. What they provide is pure illusion and my addiction buys in. My addiction buys in, but not me, not now.
Just my thoughts Joa.
Xx
TS, thank you for your replies. I have not written back for a long time, I am concerned with my “I” all the time. Self-healing. I am following the order of “my” narcissist who wrote “Get repaired” 😊 Case by case, piece by piece. Quite a lot of it.
Definitely narcissistic traits are for defense, sometimes also for attacking, when needed. It is impossible to survive without them. Sometimes I just wish I had less, it would be easier for me to comply. I am submissive, very patient, up to the point of ignition … But then I am not aggressive (rarely), rather focused, sharp and piercing. Depends on the situation. I happened to beat a man much older and stronger than me (this fury …). It’s about my stepfather. One day I just wouldn’t let myself be jerked, spit on and bitten (yes, he bit, I had scars from his teeth for several years). He was afraid of me afterwards. Unfortunately, he focused on my mom and sister, which was even worse for me. I have intervened many times, but I have not always been home. I prefer to take the harm on myself (I can stand it) than to see my loved ones hurt. Anyway, I finally managed to persuade my mother to divorce (I gave an ultimatum) and we said goodbye to this gentleman and there was peace… until she brought the next… and the next… and the next…
I have a great deal of regret to my mother right now. Huge. It is hard. I thought I had already worked it, but it’s back. Sometimes I feel like “blasting a bomb” inside my family, shaking these walls from within, and I don’t know if I won’t do it again. This time even harder, stronger, stronger, very strong. I will scream like when no one heard, even though everyone heard. My own shrill scream is still ringing in my ears… but no one has come. For now, I think, but knowing myself, I will probably fire up as soon as there is an opportunity (no children). This brings cleansing. Apparently another is needed (I carried out the last diversionary action about 10 years ago).
I would gladly set off the second bomb in a swirl of vipers from “my” narcissist. He should do it. These were his sufferings, that I feel so strongly. He’s too weak. Too dependent, though independent. It’s much worse over there. Everyone knows what’s happening and nobody knows. Honorable family full of inner venom in sweet frosting. Amazingly, I know they are afraid of me too. They checked, researched as much as I know. Hell’s emissaries. They did it without the knowledge of “my” narcissist, about which I loyally informed him with an appropriate delay 😊 He fell into a frenzy, thanks to which more information was released and I arranged the relationships between them even better. He’s been reprimanded to back out and watch out for me.
I will not do this, because their system of denials is so enormous that it does not make sense. Repercussions would be inevitable. Unless their actions force me one day (which I doubt, they will keep me away). I would also be afraid of hurting “my” narcissist. I’m not moving. This is his job… which he will never do.
His family is an amazing thing – very connected. Everyone lives separately, even in one house (no one sees each other) and yet strictly. They work together against common “enemies”, often fishing together for new equipment or drinking fuel together. You can go in (seemingly), but it’s very hard to get out. The amazing sense of property they have over me after so many years. I am not only his property, they also have a right to me, including sex (according to them). One big, slimy, jelly-like, cooperating creation. The Blob killer.
A big digression, but I had to unsubscribe…
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Yes, I definitely have a lot of narcissistic traits, I am aware of that. Life forced me 😊
Yes, for me this blog is also becoming an addiction. Sometimes I need to rest, but I’m coming back. It helps me to turn away from my own obtrusive thoughts. It confirms me, that what I feel is right. I confirm my own thoughts. Sometimes it blends a lot. I am writing something, that seems innovative to me, and in a moment HG is inserting a post, where it has been included a long time ago. Funny, as if I read my own thoughts, already written by someone else 😊
Yes, correlating with empaths in a blog is specific to narcissistic dynamics. It binds. Both narcissists connected me with their families very quickly. These bonds kept me three years longer in my first narcissus. I can feel it here too 😊
Do I consider myself unusual about my sexual preferences? Not. It’s nothing. Just a bit different than the standard. I like to steer. Nobody complained, but rather the opposite, so it’s ok 😊 I can also give in to male domination and I like, although I try, keep trying 😊 What a pleasure it would be to dominate someone who doesn’t even try to take control? Paper victory. The greater the competition, the greater the pleasure. I love it when they finally put themselves in my hands, waiting for what I will come up with and how I will lead 😊 Yes, it’s about control. You are 100% right that I need it, so that I can feel safe.
Perversions in the style of a mask, strap and whips make me laugh, this is not my perversion at all. Ha ha ha, until I started laughing at the thought of “my” narcissist dressed in a costume 😊 He would not do it in life. Never! 😊
The first narcissist liked minimal pain. The second did not allow such a possibility. I definitely like pain and a bit of violence… just to take control 😊
As you write, safety is the basis of my approach. Such a real close-up. I believe that the narcissist needs it too. Their suspicion, constant monitoring, checking, testing, distrust. Is nothing threatening them? They are also looking for a safe, loyal haven (although they do not admit and must respond by punishing or rejecting). “My” narcissist wanted to be close, and then he ran away into his grand paranoia. Of course, not in the devaluation stage, then sex was only mechanical and quite boring.
I got too close. And then. And now. Retreat was inevitable.
Unfortunately, I have sadistic personality elements. It’s not about the physical. They are released in response to the rape of my brain. Humiliation, degradation, yes I do, and more. Invisibly but noticeably. Self-defense.
Does a narcissist no meet any of my needs? I do not agree. Fulfills. He doesn’t do this for me. But that doesn’t bother me. Both mine and his needs are important to me. Or maybe even more his than mine – although I do not forget about my own, I have the right dose of selfishness. I can give a lot, but I also want a little.
Pretending in the bedroom. Ok. But do it right 😊
Illusion. Well … Sometimes I don’t know who has bigger …
Thank you TS, you put in the effort and you took the time for me. I really appreciate that. I have already moved on to the next stages of “repairing myself”, but I returned with pleasure.
You gave me hope that maybe there was a chance to bond with the “normal” or the empath after all. I feel pulled, when you write. Perhaps the solution is someone with high narcissistic, but not dominant, traits.
I like to dominate (also in life), but it’s fluid. I just as much like when a man gives me orders and I submit to them (up to certain limits, of course, although they are quite distant). The empathetic man is too clammy, I would destroy him in “5 minutes”. In a way, I have to be respectful not to speed up too much … Dominate me. I will dominate you. Bind me to you. I’ll tie you to myself. Variables. The perverse.
Today I jumped around the topics a bit, thoughts flow loosely.
Thank you 😊
PS What does Xx stand for?
Hey Joa,
Thank you for your reply. You never need to worry about not getting back to me straight away, life can be busy.
I enjoyed reading your thoughts I can feel them wandering, it’s nice, honest.
When I read the first part of your comment, there was one word that came into my mind. Fight. You fight for yourself and you fight to protect others including your narcissist. No child should have to protect the parent as you did.
You took on the role of protector at a very young age but that role should never have been assigned to you. Now you see yourself as the strong one, the one that can take on damage but still be left standing. You’re right in a way, you are strong, you do know how to fight but again, you shouldn’t have to. I don’t believe relationships should be a battle, a fight for control or supremacy. Personally I like the idea of both partners having different strengths and weaknesses. Where he is weaker I take the lead as I am stronger and vice versa. A partnership, an understanding rather than a fight.
I can totally understand your frustration and anger as regards your own family. As I read, another commenter here sprang to mind. You remind me, or part of your story reminds me very much of Narcangel’s role in her family. I think she could very much relate to how you see things, but I will let NA tell her own story should she read our discussion.
The fact that there are similarities in your narcissist’s upbringing I am sure feels like a shared history. That’s tough to get past for an empath. If you look into the past of a narcissist, it’s never going to be a happy story. Their story will be hugely unfair, heartbreaking, a loveless childhood where they were overlooked, ignored or abused. The temptation when we feel that, is very much to compensate, to protect or to make exceptions for their behaviours towards us. To fix it. The conclusion I have come to since being here though is that it can’t be fixed and I refuse to lay down on the altar of their narcissism. I choose me instead.
Your description of his family reminded me of a nest of vampires. Really, that was the image I saw! Walk into the nest and they all believe they have a claim to you. They will do. They see us as objects, there to fulfil a purpose or a need. Your narcissist is like that too though, “Get repaired” meaning “You are no use to me if you aren’t functioning.” It’s a dangerous game and a game is exactly what it is. The chase, the challenge, the fight for control or against control. It makes us feel alive, but we fail to notice we are being slowly drained. Life shouldn’t have to be such a fight. It’s hard to see that when the fight is all you know.
I think I get a feel for how you view empaths and normals. Bear in mind though, you too are an empath and somehow I don’t see you as mild! Haha. Gentle doesn’t spring to mind, nor does pushover or ‘ plays nicely with others’. (laughing now) I’ve said here on the blog that if I had to disagree with HG on anything, I’d say that sometimes I think he sees us as being nicer than we are. That might be unfair to say ‘we’. I think he sees me as nicer than I am. I do agree with my TDC results. I do carry those empathic traits and yes I’m very much governed by them and they are obvious in a lot of respects. Similarly though I can be a right royal pain in the arse. Stubborn, aloof, uncompromising, manipulative, sometimes cold, sometimes calculating, sometimes dismissive and actually, quite vain. And, I don’t care, so I suppose we can add in a sprinkle of pride there too!
I think sometimes our view of the empath is a little bit skewed. More so when we think about empath men. In actual fact if I put my traits onto a male empath I think he’d be pretty damn hot now I think about it! I’m playing, but it is something to think about. Think of yourself and then the male equivalent. It’s likely a more accurate picture than the one we first imagine of someone who would be unable to handle us or who we would walk all over. The empath group is a large and diverse group of personalities with traits set to varying levels. Our group just has more traits to pick from than the narcissist group. Since when was having more choice a bad thing?!
I am still thinking about your comment, I might add a little more to mine but will pause here for now.
Your last question made me smile. The ‘Xx’. It’s just the way I sign off. It’s a hug and a kiss when I feel connected to someone or someone’s thoughts, which here, happens quite often.
Xx
TS, I like the partnership concept that you described. Unfortunately, experience tells me, that as soon as the equilibrium level drops, the stronger side always takes advantage of it. This goes for both sides. Not necessarily on purpose, it just is. Partnership is hard to maintain, but it’s worth the try.
I do not know the story of Narcangel, but sometimes I flip through older threads, so sooner or later I will definitely “dig up”.
Indeed, there are empaths among my woman friends. All wonderful, with a history, each with strong narcissistic traits. Even my sister, the most sensitive of the sensitive, is a terrible creature 😊 But when it comes to empathic men – I can’t help it, I am completely not attracted to it. There was one, probably “normal”, my friend for 12 years, my heart twitched in his direction, but then I met “my N” and I flew towards him like a moth to a candle, without looking back 😊
Xx – thank you for the explanation, even my daughter did not know it, and still sits on English pages (mainly reading).
Short, because I’m trying to catch up. 700 comments to read. I really don’t know how you guys keep up. The blog itself is difficult for me to read in its entirety, let alone movies and others 😊
Joa, thank you for sharing this experience, it took me back to those dangerous experiences from my youth also. I live in America but whenever there is the combo of teen hormones, rebellion/running, and alcohol, things can become dangerous. And I agree, at that time I felt the safest under the narcissists wing. It was home, it was known and it was comforting. There was a protection, of sorts. Removing that, after my first divorce, I did get into what could have been some very precarious situations, foolishly. Thankfully nothing bad happened and I found another wing to be under, or rather, he found me. But now it is time to grow up, take actual responsibility for myself, finally, haha, as I am racing toward becoming…older. I am preparing to do so here. Once I am ready, I will likely still be here, at least sometimes. I owe a huge debt of gratitude here. Also I hope to help others on their way to freedom, if I can. And, I think it may be good for me to have some sense of accountability, I have had this narcissist mess in my life since the beginning, it is why I ran, and it doesn’t change overnight. But, I don’t want to be under the wing of any narcissist any longer, it wasn’t real safety, only perceived, they hurt me too. Now I want what is real, to protect myself, stand on my own two feet and meet someone in the middle, for a real adventure together. Your story made me realize all of this, thank you so much.
AV, I’m “alone” for almost 15 years. I appreciate the peace, I have. I appreciate that I decide for myself. But… I miss “recording” moments together and sometimes madness 😊
In any case, narcissists surround me everywhere and I am unable to remove them from my life, they are part of it. In such cases, when it comes to men, the under-wing seat is the best. I am not interested in fighting.
I avoid narcissistic women. I can’t make any connection with them. Are boring woman.
Empath – very long-lasting friendships.
Except for my mom, but it’s a different type of relationship. By the way – my mother never had any female friend. Short-term acquaintances appeared sporadically.
Hi TS,
I thought I had written something in response to this, hope I am not doubling up. Anyway, my firefighter went every Sunday afternoon for his groceries, right after church, religiously, haha. And, I knew he was going to find women! We were not romantically involved but I did fall in “love” with him, go figure, now I am convinced he is a narcissist. Anyway, I think they are always looking for empaths and shopping is a prime place even if it’s not a named official hunting ground in the book. I also have wondered what we do that makes them notice us and have decided it must be little cues, a bit of indecision here, a bit of hesitance there, being exceptionally polite even when we’re frustrated, stuff like that. And I think normals are just more…normal about how they go about life, without the indecision, hesitation or over-politeness when frustrated etc. I think if we trained ourselves, we could possibly even pick it out. But, for me, that would be way way too creepy, to watch anyone like that! But, training to watch for narcissists, I agree! That’s a whole ‘nother matter, a-okay in my book! Haha!
AV
It’s funny how over time we can look back and pick out people who likely were narcissists. We can’t be certain, but there is enough to strongly suspect. That’s a good thing, I think it shows that whilst many of us arrived here troubled by one specific narc or situation, our learning has facilitated a wider view. Now we really can see things that were questionable and we are less likely to view it as a misread or assign excuses. I really do believe that we are incredibly good at reading people accurately. I also believe that our addiction dilutes this ability to a huge extent and within a very short time frame. First impressions can’t always be accurate. For us, maybe we have to be content with the 80 or 90% accuracy that our empathy affords us.
Haha, yep, we do all sorts to give ourselves away. Supermarkets are an interesting one. Just looking at what is in the trolley can tell an onlooker if we have kids, a partner or if we live alone. How many normals would have stood to read the charity description? They wouldn’t, they would place the counters in one of the three boxes without pausing. It doesn’t affect them, they aren’t interested.
I agree, not good to analyse everyone, although I do smile to myself when I see another person showing empathy in a similar way. I see the world through a whole new lense. Team empath, I’m very proud to be a card carrying member! I love my new awareness, most of the time.
During my consultation, and without going in to detail as to the subject matter, I described to HG how I felt in a certain situation. To me, I thought it extreme, unrealistic. I was almost embarrassed to admit my thought process. What was interesting was that HG didn’t tell me I was wrong or weird for feeling that way. He said I would feel that way, because I’m an empath. It wasn’t “Change this, change that, that’s wrong.” It was a case of acceptance. To paraphrase, “Yep, empath, you’re going to react that way.” I found that quite freeing. It has caused me to further accept what I used to consider as quirks or failings. We cant change or hide who we are or what we feel. We cant change the narcissist. We can do things though to make our lives easier and safer. In the case of relationships that starts with awareness, spotting the signs and acting on them.
Xx
Yes, I agree TS, it is amazing how we can look back and see red flags that we missed, behaviors, our own reaction to certain people, all of that. And I agree that we are good at reading people though I don’t think I’m as good at it as I once thought I was. Over the last 7 or 8 years I feel like I’ve learned that I am off on my initial assessment probably about 50 percent of the time. I don’t think it’s new, I think I have started checking it out more, and learned that my read wasn’t always accurate. Thankfully, it was typically swayed to the negative.
I also smile when I see empathic behavior! Things I would likely not have notice prior to narcsite, I didn’t even see them in myself back then! Yes, I also am very happy to be a member of team empath!
I have said the same and received the same with regard to acceptance, “You’re just being a typical empath…”, this is very comforting as it tells me I am “normal” haha, as empath go! 🙂 And yes, very freeing and very helpful with regard to accepting myself also. It is so nice not to be judged. Or criticized, looked down upon, corrected etc. Thank you for sharing that.
TS, I like that, the idea that we should accept ourselves for how we are, in the same way as we accept others for who they are. Such a simple message, really, but sometimes it takes someone to put it in a certain way for it to sink in xx
JB,
Yes, you’re right. We are accepting of others, just not always ourselves! HG does have a knack of cutting straight to the source of things. Xx
Hey AV,
It really is nice not to be judged isn’t it? Finding out about narcissism and the various aspects of our ensnarements can be really tough. The shattering of illusions and the dismantling of things we thought we knew is life changing.
The real upside though is the empathic side. Being with other empaths here on the blog makes me think that between their support and HG’s logic I could pretty much deal with anything. Spotting other empaths out and about in my daily life, I just find really comforting, especially now when the world feels so out of sorts.
Xx
TS, yes, I find both, not being judged and seeing empathic behavior around me, both freeing and comforting at the same time. And in the world as it seems now, both of these things are of great value.
TS, he certainly does. I love it!
A great story thank you TS.
It reminded me of a recent trip to the supermarket I had with my disabled, adult son. To on lookers it may have seemed when he collapsed that I was the uncaring one. He refused to take his wheelchair. At 26 years of age – I no longer insist – he has to make his own decisions.
Other than making sure he is not hurt – or in danger – there is little I can do when it happens. (six times in a few hours that day), it happens a lot. He cannot hear or respond – till he comes round – even when he seems conscious and he also hates it when I fuss.
A few people stopped to ask if he was okay. Obviously empathic. It was nice and made me smile that there are people out there who are lovely. This was yesterday but the memory brings a smile.
You would have given that mother a warm feeling and it would have stayed with her beyond your interaction. Perhaps we are the balance to all the inconsiderate people out there and by not instinctively doing these little things – it would make the world a darker place 😉
Psychology,
That’s a lovely way of looking at things. Maybe we are the balance.
I’m very glad you felt supported yesterday. I imagine that kind words and offers of assistance during those situations must mean a great deal. It must be incredibly difficult, pushing your motherly instincts down so that you can fully respect your son’s wishes. That’s essentially what it amounts to, complete respect of his need for independence. Tough to stick to but clearly a priority for you both.
I have to hope that if we put good out in the world, at a time when we really need it, maybe when my daughter needs help and I’m not with her, someone somewhere will do what we would do. It might be naive, romantic or wishful thinking, but somewhere along the line I think there has to be a little faith. The world can look very bleak without it.
Xx
psychologyandworldaffairs: I agree, and yours is such a deeply moving post I wish I was there with you in person to give you the hugs I am sending your way. XX
This book is a must read for all victims of narcissism.
Especially those that are considered to have further ‘vulnerabilities’ that makes those individuals more susceptible to abuse / manipulation of the mind and / or emotions.
This was one of the first of HG’s books that I read shortly after I joined KTN blog. I found it very useful in giving me clarity to understand why I was an easy ‘sitting’ target for the Lesser and Mid-Range narcissists. I do not believe I have come across a Greater narcissist. It is easy to assume you have unless you have learned about the schools of narcissists (the differentiating emotional intelligences), the cadres and the behavioural patterns of each school.
A really good book for the ‘novice’ learner to HG’s work to understanding the world of narcissism.